WEBVTT - Special Edition: MAKERS: Keep Going – What Being a Man Means Today 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:13.960 I'm Kenezzarelli and you're listening to Seneca's conversations on power 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:18.439 and Purpose. I am so delighted to partner with Makers 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:22.000 on the special six part series called Keep Going. In 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:26.120 this series, we listen to incredible conversations from Makers Conferences 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:29.440 with a special focus on d e I. The goal 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:32.040 is to use these podcasts as a jumping off point 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:36.480 for conversations about d EI in your own organization. Now, 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:39.080 I want to give a special thanks to the one 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:44.440 Maker's Conference sponsors, PNG, Price, Waterhouse, Cooper's and official wellness 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:48.760 sponsor Lulu Lemon. Now we launched the Seneca Women podcast 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:51.639 Network about a year ago with founding partner p ANDNG 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:54.720 and I Heart Radio with the goal of amplifying the 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:58.120 voices of women around the world. You probably know that 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:02.080 podcasting is a fast growing industry, with over of podcast 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:05.360 listeners being women. But what you may not know is 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:09.160 that only tw of top podcasts are hosted by women. 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:12.520 We want to change that, so we're launching dozens of 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:16.120 women focused and women led podcasts. So if you have 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:18.200 a show or you want to collaborate on a show, 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:22.360 reach out to us at info at Seneca Women dot com. 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:25.520 Now today we're going to be talking about masculinity and 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:29.200 how false narratives about masculinity can have a negative impact 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:32.080 on our daily lives and in the workplace. We're going 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:35.560 to hear an excerpt of a fascinating conversation between Doug 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:38.880 m Off, the second Gentleman of the United States, that is, 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:43.880 the husband of Vice President Kamala Harris, and Justin Baldoni, author, 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:48.920 filmmaker and co founder of Wayfarer Studios. Their discussion took 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:52.800 place at the recent Makers Conference. After the excerpt, I'll 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:56.559 be talking today with our special guest, Mark Pritchard, chief 0:01:56.600 --> 0:02:00.240 brand Officer for PNG. Over the years, we have been 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:03.800 thrilled to work with Mark on game changing projects. He's 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:06.600 going to give us his perspective on masculinity and some 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:10.240 practical suggestions for the workplace. But first let's listen to 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:14.160 Justin Baldoni and Doug m Off on masculinity. But I 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:17.119 want to jump in real quick just a masculinity because 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:19.440 obviously I just wrote wrote a book about it, I'm 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:21.840 thinking a lot about it, and I just want to 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:25.240 ask you, has there, just has there ever been a 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:30.360 moment where, because of our conditioning as men, sometimes we 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:32.960 can just fall into learned behavior. Right. We've all been 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:36.400 socialized um to think that we got to be the providers, 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:37.960 that we got to be the center of attention. Right. 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:40.720 These are all things that that we're not born with. 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.480 We're taught this stuff. Is there a moment where you 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:46.560 just had to shed all that stuff and be like, Okay, 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:49.080 you know, I was a super successful entertainment lawyer, like 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:50.639 I was the king of the household, and now I've 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:53.799 married this badass, powerful woman and holy crap, she's the 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:57.280 vice president. I'm maybe your ego might have told you 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:00.000 something like I'm not as important. I don't. I'm just curious, 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:05.880 did you wrestle with anything on this journey. It's such 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.600 a great point and it's such a great thing to 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:12.520 be talking about, and it's something I've thought about, especially 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.440 in getting ready to talk to you. And it's it's, 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:18.760 you know, this whole thing about you know, manliness, and 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:21.160 you know what it means to be a man. I mean, 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:25.120 what is strength? It's to me, it's strong to show 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.240 someone you love them and show someone you will protect 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:31.359 them and provide for them, and it's okay to show it. 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:34.320 And it's but that doesn't mean you're weak. I think 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:36.200 that means you're strong. You know, you don't have to 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:40.880 talk tough to be tough. And so it's kind of 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:44.680 this didn't just for me. I'm a very healthy ego. 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:49.640 I'm confident I was successful and you know, I no, 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:53.480 I don't lack for any of that. But it's, Um, 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:57.120 I'm always curious at at men who have to, you know, 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:01.160 stump their chest to to show how big they are. 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:05.720 That's pretty small to me. Um, you gotta be vulnerable, 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:08.680 you gotta you gotta be willing to let people see 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:12.440 you who you are, UM, so they can trust you, 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:16.240 so they know you've you, you have their back, and 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:19.719 you're gonna be there for them. And that's kind of 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:22.080 how I rolled. That's how I've always rolled, and it 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:24.920 just didn't happen because I met Karla Harris. It was 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:30.880 really uh, you know, put put into my blood and 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:35.200 soul by my father and my mother who were Mom's 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:39.839 a super strong woman, competitive athlete, you know, she was 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:43.400 really just showed me what a strong woman could be. 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.679 And then my dad, who just worked his tush off, 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:49.800 traveled the world, was a woman shoe designer, so he 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.840 was in a field of art and yet he was 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:57.400 one of the strongest, toughest, most self actualized men I know, 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:00.920 and you know taught me so much, including the value 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:04.440 of hard work and what makes you you know, part 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:06.640 of what makes you who you are is what you 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:09.960 can do for your family, not just by money though, 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:15.360 by love and by care and by um you know, 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:20.400 being there. What a fascinating conversation. And I am so 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:23.920 delighted to welcome our special guests today, Mark Pritchard, Chief 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:27.880 brand Officer for PNG. Mark, thanks so much for joining us. 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:30.800 Thank you for having me Kim. So, why is it 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:34.719 important that we eliminate these outdated notions of masculinity that 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:38.960 they were just referring to, including in the workplace. Well, 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:44.760 the outdated notions of masculinity just don't serve us well anymore. 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:47.919 And you know, one of the most outdated one is 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:53.080 this strong, silent type, which which admittedly, you know, I 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:57.599 really grew up admiring and respecting and thinking that's what 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:00.919 it was all about. And and the problem is is 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:05.720 that that strong silent type, um, it is useful for 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:09.440 some situations, but in other situations, if it's the only 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:14.880 notion of masculinity, then it can lead to unhealthy behavior. 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:18.719 It can lead to this feeling of of as a man, 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.479 you need to be the dominant one, the one who's 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:25.040 in power, the one who's in charge, the one who 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:27.960 who really needs to take over everything and who has 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:31.599 to always have the loudest voice. And um, and uh 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:33.600 you know one of the one of the worst ones, 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.240 which is want the one who can't ever stop and 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:39.839 ask for directions when they're lost. So you know, the 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:44.000 that that notion though at its you know, at it's 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:46.880 at best which I just described, it can be more 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:52.600 of a domineering um situation. You know, at the minimum, 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:57.240 if it squelches the ability for others to be able 0:06:57.240 --> 0:07:00.680 to contribute and it doesn't lead a team, and it worse, 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:04.240 it can lead to very unhealthy behavior. It can lead 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:10.400 to this this outsized and overcharged expectation as to what, um, 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:12.520 what you need to do as a man and what 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:14.920 men need to do, and that that can lead to 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:18.640 mental health problems. Um. But it also can unfortunately lead 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:23.160 to bullying and harassment and other and other things that 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:27.280 are even worse. So you know, um, the new definition 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:29.400 of masculinity is to be a real man, is to 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:34.520 be one who is who is vulnerable, who shows a 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:38.800 full range of emotions like every other human um and 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:41.560 and to be human and humane and to love and 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:45.720 to care and to trust. That notion just brings out 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:48.840 the best in everyone, not the least of which is 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:53.000 the men who choose to to follow that notion have 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:56.520 a much more fulfilling life. So that sounds like the 0:07:56.600 --> 0:08:00.920 real definition of masculinity. And when we see the workplace, 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:03.600 how do we bring that definition to the workplace. How 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:07.280 do we ensure that our leaders are encouraging that definition 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:11.520 of masculinity. What's really important in the workplace is to 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:16.240 take the time to really recognize biases. And we and 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.080 we all grow up with with bias. I mean, every 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:23.080 human on the planet has bias. And one of those 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:26.720 biases are around these notions of what a man is 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:31.320 about and and what what a woman is about and 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:33.640 and so one of the things that is important to 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:34.960 do in the workplace, and one of the things that 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:37.559 we do is we just we have we have training. 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:40.679 We have training on gender bias, and and we have 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:45.960 conversations and we discuss what the expectations should be, and 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:53.600 our leaders express the expectations of what true equality is about. 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:55.400 At the you know, at the end of the day, 0:08:55.640 --> 0:09:00.800 we we aspire to live in an equal world, and 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:07.400 that equality means equal voices, equal pay, equal contributions, equal roles. 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:11.880 And and when when when things are equal in the workplace, 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:17.080 you get better results and and you get a far 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:23.440 more fulfilling work environment. So really it's incumbent upon leadership 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:26.880 to just express those expectations and then when they see, 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:31.720 when when anyone sees behavior that is inconsistent with those expectations, 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:34.960 call it out. It's not enough to just stand by 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:40.280 and and not do anything. And when you see behavior 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:44.760 that that is inconsistent that that that demonstrates either any 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:51.360 kind of bullying, harassment, or or even talking over people, 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:54.440 call it out, call it out and say you know 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:57.840 that that's not right. Um. That starts to then change 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:00.800 the environment of the workforces. So where do you have 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:06.200 a really truly productive and healthy workplace where everyone contributes well. 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:08.000 That tone at the top that you're talking about is 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:11.120 so so key, um, And to see leaders do that, 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:14.040 I think makes a huge, huge difference in workplace culture. 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:16.960 The other thing that you do so well and we're 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:21.720 so grateful for, is how you use your advertising as 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:25.040 a force for good and so how can companies bring 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:29.679 this message to the wider world. You know, every company 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:34.160 that does any kind of advertising or even communications, which 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:38.440 is pretty much every company has has the opportunity to 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:42.640 use their voice as a force for good for gender equality. 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:46.600 And you know, we're the world's largest advertiser, or often 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:50.880 on the world's largest advertiser. And what we recognize is 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:54.679 that advertising affects people every day. The images that are 0:10:54.720 --> 0:11:00.359 in advertising really embed into people's minds and create maray's 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:05.080 and those memories then form bias and and that because 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:08.560 what what what you're seeing is how people are portrayed, 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:12.520 and how they're portrayed can lead to either a stereotypical 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:16.880 portrayal or denegrating or diminishing portrayal, or it can be 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:21.680 an accurate portrayal. Our job is to have accurate portrayals, 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:25.880 so never stereotyping, never diminishing, never denigrating. So just fundamentally 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:29.000 job want is to make sure all of our advertising 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:35.160 accurately portrays women and girls of all intersectionalities. When that happens, 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:38.720 you can start to eliminate bias just through the everyday 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:42.800 images that you see. And then periodically what you can 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:45.319 do and what we do is we we try to 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:48.640 use our voice, use our voice to shine the light 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:51.840 on bias or to bring to light an issue that 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:55.560 needs to be addressed. For example, every many people are 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:58.200 familiar with always like a girl. That literally changed the 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:01.760 meaning of that phrase that is generally perceived as a 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:06.960 that is that is communicated as as an insult um. 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:09.120 And we change the meaning of that phrase to mean 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:14.079 amazing things versus versus something that's insulting, and people now 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:18.240 think about it as as as a positive phrase um. 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:20.920 And then there's several other things that we've done with 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:25.160 with our different brands that just shine to light on bias, 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:30.320 shining to light on notions of of of masculinity. Even 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:32.640 where we did this with Gillette, we believe where we 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:34.959 were focused on the best men can be as be 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:38.120 a man who is who is a role model for 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:42.040 equality and uh. And when you do that, then people 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:46.040 start having conversations. And when those conversations then lead to 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:51.360 understanding and empathy and that attitude change and then eventually 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:57.400 what what happens is equality and and these these notions 0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:01.280 of masculinity of what a real man is, they start 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:05.000 to become the norm. And that's what we're seeking. Well, 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:07.160 we want to thank you for that. Obviously, today we 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:11.200 are living in a media storm um and advertising and 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.000 media are so integrated into every part of our life. 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:17.120 And so the idea that you could use your force 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.520 for good uh and as you said, accurately portray the 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.080 full range of emotion of men and women, the full 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:25.520 range of roles is so critical, and we see other 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.959 companies are taking the queue from you, so we really 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:31.120 thank you for that, you bet, and we'll keep going. 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:36.960 Thank you Mark for joining us. I get so inspired 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.000 whenever I talk with Mark Pritchard, and what great insights 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.080 we heard from Doug m Off and Justin Baldoni. So 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:45.200 the next step is how to bring these ideas to 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:49.800 the workplace to address notions of masculinity and equality. Here 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:53.920 are three questions to ask yourself. First, do you recognize 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:57.560 your own biases? Everybody has them, but have you checked 0:13:57.559 --> 0:13:59.680 your own thinking to make sure you're not seeing men 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:04.720 and women in limiting ways? Two? Are you setting expectations 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:07.960 for correct behavior in the workplace? Are you calling out 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:10.559 bad behavior so that you can create a healthy environment 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:15.920 where everyone contributes. And Finally, does your company's advertising send 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:19.360 the right message, does it accurately portray women and men? 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:21.680 And can it be used as a force for good? 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:26.440 Does your advertising and communication strategy ignite the conversation that 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:31.640 leads to empathy and equality. Thanks so much for joining us, 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:35.240 and tune in next Wednesday for another amazing maker's conversation 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:37.840 about how we can all contribute to making progress in 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:42.640 the workplace. You're listening to Seneca's Conversations on Power and 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:45.560 Purpose brought to you by the Seneca Women podcast Network 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.240 and I Heart Radio with support from founding partner p 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:52.800 And Listen to Seneca's Conversations on Power and Purpose on 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:55.840 the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:59.720 get your podcasts. For more information on Seneca Women, follow 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:02.480 us on social media or visit our website at Seneca 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:10.840 Women dot com. H M HM