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Speaker 1: One night I came around the corner of Third Avenue

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Speaker 1: and it was snowing. There was Billy outside, shoveling snow

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Speaker 1: away from his uh, away from his door, and he

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Speaker 1: was wearing a pair of boots, like rubber boots because

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Speaker 1: it was freezing, and he was completely buck naked and

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the street and shoveling away. He

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Speaker 1: was very um free. I guess I didn't give a

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Speaker 1: funk about anybody else or what they thought. He was confrontational, brash,

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Speaker 1: and he also had a big, really big heart. This

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Speaker 1: is Robbie Bowman, a musician friend of Billy's and the

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Speaker 1: guy who went to the morgue with my mom to

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Speaker 1: identify Billy's body. I went with Billy's very close friend,

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Speaker 1: Robbie Bowman, to the medical examiner. We took a cab

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Speaker 1: up to the city Morgue. I've never been there before,

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Speaker 1: and they brought us down stairs and there was a

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Speaker 1: window with curtain and they opened the curtains and he

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Speaker 1: was there, and he had a covering. From his hairline up,

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Speaker 1: there was some sort of covering and there was a

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Speaker 1: blanket from his neck down. We were seeing him in profile,

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Speaker 1: and I remember thinking how hard it is to recognize

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Speaker 1: somebody without their hair and without seeing them standing up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: your mother recognized him, and so I said what I

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Speaker 1: did too, what's your experience of his shooting and then

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Speaker 1: eventual death. It was fishing from the start. But I

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Speaker 1: was told was that the police broke in, there's one

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Speaker 1: guy right and shoots him. Now why did he shoot him,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but it seemed more like an execution

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Speaker 1: to me. And you know, I don't think anybody bought

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Speaker 1: the idea that this was a legitimate arrest. And then

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Speaker 1: he was in the hospital and he started to get better,

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Speaker 1: which we're all amazed, and uh, you know, the next

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Speaker 1: thing we heard was that he had died because they

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Speaker 1: had taken him to exercise, to the exercise room. He

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Speaker 1: needed exercise. Apparently we knew what that meant, you know,

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Speaker 1: that he'd been murdered. Robbie thinks that after Billy survived

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Speaker 1: the shooting, someone came to the hospital to finish the job.

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Speaker 1: So that scared the ship out of everybody, and scared

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Speaker 1: the ship out of me at least, and that to me,

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Speaker 1: that's what happened. They murdered him. It was like, oh shit,

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Speaker 1: you know, we better like not talk about this out

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Speaker 1: loud very much. Yeah, it wasn't like, you know, we

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Speaker 1: better started investigation with the newspaper or something. This is

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Speaker 1: really scary, you know. If they can do that to

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Speaker 1: you when you're in the hospital, it's like a clear

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Speaker 1: message to leave it alone. Today on the show, we

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Speaker 1: asked was there a conspiracy to murder Billy in order

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Speaker 1: to keep him quiet? And we do our best to

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Speaker 1: separate fact from fiction. I'm Io till it right, and

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Speaker 1: this is the Ballad of Billy Balls. Something has gone wrong.

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Speaker 1: I got the impression that he had possibly killed somebody.

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Speaker 1: I don't see him going for a don I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: see the cops. There was a revenge thing from the cops.

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Speaker 1: Why did they want to kill him? That's what I

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Speaker 1: don't have any idea. And that's I No, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. Chapter five, those high

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Speaker 1: powered lawyers. Hello. Hi is this Mark? Yeah? I was

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Speaker 1: just Hey Mark. My name's Io. I'm Rebecca Wright's kid.

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Speaker 1: Hey good, how are you actually? I'm a little sick.

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Speaker 1: This is Mark Pines, an old friend of my mom's.

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Speaker 1: Mark was the first person she called after she found

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Speaker 1: out Billy had been shot, so I'm hoping he might

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Speaker 1: have some answers. I am trying to figure out what

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Speaker 1: the hell happened to Billy. And you are name that

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Speaker 1: keeps coming up. Oh yeah, are you around New York

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Speaker 1: right now? I am. Yeah. It'd be so great to

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Speaker 1: see you and hang out. Definitely, can you you can

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Speaker 1: come over. I'll get us some food sent up and

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Speaker 1: animal sit and we'll talk. And so my producer, Austin

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Speaker 1: and I go to see Mark at his apartment in

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Speaker 1: the village because I've got like forty years worth of

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Speaker 1: archives in storage rooms around the city of everything I

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Speaker 1: ever shot. In the seventies and eighties, Mark worked as

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Speaker 1: a video artist. He produced some of the first music

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Speaker 1: videos for bands like Hall and Oates and Jefferson Starship,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of commercials. My mom modeled for him

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Speaker 1: while she was pregnant with me. We used the forward

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Speaker 1: face of the eighties models, and I used Rebecca and

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Speaker 1: Rebecca was in I think it was about her seventh

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Speaker 1: faith and length at the time. Rebecca and I seemed

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Speaker 1: I think we had an unspoken bond on a level

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Speaker 1: that we've never tried to explain to each other. But

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Speaker 1: we've just enjoyed. And of course talking about my mom

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Speaker 1: leads to talk of Billy and what happened to him

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Speaker 1: that I want to hear your theories before I tell you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was from what I could piece together from I mean,

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Speaker 1: Rebecca called me, you know, she called me right after

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Speaker 1: it happened. Remember what she said. Primes Show just called

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Speaker 1: me Pines Pines and Billy had been shot. What she

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Speaker 1: told me that it was sometime a mistaken identity. They

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Speaker 1: thought he was a much bigger drug person than he was,

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Speaker 1: and he went down. I think they got him into kidneys,

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Speaker 1: and he was in the hospital and he was hurt,

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Speaker 1: but he was not critically hurt. He was going to

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Speaker 1: make it. He was going to make it, and they

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Speaker 1: began to realize that they had the wrong guy, and

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Speaker 1: somewhere in the hospital one of the attendants turned him

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Speaker 1: over when he wasn't supposed to, opened up the wounds

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Speaker 1: and caused a massive hemorrhage and he died. He died

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Speaker 1: from the secondary situation as I remember, And again this

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Speaker 1: is filtered through many years after Billy was shot, and

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Speaker 1: while he was in the hospital, Mark says he did

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Speaker 1: everything he could to help my Mom, I try to

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Speaker 1: be there for she was going through all this stuff.

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Speaker 1: I got them, you know, I pointed them in the

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Speaker 1: direction of a lawyer. I got Mark Pines on the phone,

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Speaker 1: and he told me two of the heaviest lawyers in

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Speaker 1: New York City right off the bath because it was

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Speaker 1: clear a big civil suit, you know, and some horrible

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Speaker 1: crime against Billy Balls. The way my mom tells it,

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Speaker 1: the two heavy lawyers started building a case. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: lawyers visited Billy in the hospital, they got a testimony

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Speaker 1: from him. It was a case was being brewed up.

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Speaker 1: The lawyers had all the ship on paper, and the

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Speaker 1: paper was evidence. We need that. We need that real

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Speaker 1: bad right, And I need to know the names of

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Speaker 1: the lawyers, right, the fucking lawyers. It's another thing that

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Speaker 1: I just can't fucking remember because my mind has just

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Speaker 1: put this out, you know. But I am sure that

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Speaker 1: I can figure it out if I if I talked

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Speaker 1: to Mark Cohn's, do you remember the lawyers that you

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Speaker 1: got involved from my mom? Because I have been thinking

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Speaker 1: about that and be lawyer for people in the village

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Speaker 1: was a guy named high Shore Hi shure h y

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Speaker 1: s h o or e. Mark believes that one of

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Speaker 1: the high powered lawyers my mom was working with was

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Speaker 1: a guy named high Shore. Thank you, Mark, and thank

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Speaker 1: you for all of your time and researching and helping me.

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Speaker 1: And this name thing. I hope that. Oh that opens

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Speaker 1: up something, you know, Hi, sure lawyer. Back in the studio,

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Speaker 1: Austin and I searched for any information about high Shore.

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Speaker 1: Huh high Shore lawyer, state of New York. What the fuck?

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Speaker 1: There's nothing. I can't find anything about a famous lawyer

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Speaker 1: named high Shore. I found the name high Shore in

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Speaker 1: court records as a defendant, as like, you know, not

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Speaker 1: as a lawyer, as somebody who's being sued. That's the

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Speaker 1: only time I found his name. So then that's wrong.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Eventually, Austin manages

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Speaker 1: to track down someone who worked briefly with high Shore.

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Speaker 1: Hi is this Robert Steinberg. The conversation doesn't reveal much

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Speaker 1: except one curious detail. We just have to share a

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Speaker 1: good person. I had a hook on one arm. He

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Speaker 1: had a hook? Yeah, you didn't have one arm? Oh wow,

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Speaker 1: he had a device. Um, I do you have any

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Speaker 1: thoughts about other people who might have worked with him

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Speaker 1: or known him? No? Allright, we need a little legal assistance,

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Speaker 1: and luckily we know who to call. He just accused

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Speaker 1: me of lauger that document. They are the ones that

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Speaker 1: do that. Ud not off. He's one of the best

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Speaker 1: known criminal defense and civil rights attorneys in the country.

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Speaker 1: The message that comes out of this is the government

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Speaker 1: is saying that it's all right for white people to

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Speaker 1: go out and pick up guns and shoot black people.

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Speaker 1: He's famous for defending victims of police brutality, members of

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Speaker 1: the Hell's Angels, and the so called Gambino crime family.

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Speaker 1: He even got a shout out in the movie The

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Speaker 1: Big Lebowski. You don't know shit, Lebowski. What a fucking

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Speaker 1: lawyer man? I want wrong Kuby Hello, Hey, Io run Kubi, Hey,

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Speaker 1: how are you good? So? Where is Billy Balls buried? Now?

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Speaker 1: After the break? Ron Kuby? So how can I help

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Speaker 1: the project? Well, I where do I even start? Um?

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Speaker 1: I'm on the phone with civil rights attorney Ron Kuby

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Speaker 1: telling him the story of Billy Balls and they were like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: William Heightsman shot five times, Get the funk out of here.

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Speaker 1: So she then went and called a friend and he

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Speaker 1: gave her the number of a high powered lawyer but

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Speaker 1: we haven't been able to locate this lawyer. Um. I

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Speaker 1: hate it when those high powered lawyers just evaporate. Is

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Speaker 1: that a thing that happens? Like, No, it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: not a thing that happens. Yeah, it really isn't. Do

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Speaker 1: you know his name? Well, the one name we had

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Speaker 1: was high Shore. Does that ring a bell for you?

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Speaker 1: High Shore? I mean I knew a lot of the

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Speaker 1: high powered lawyers in that day. It doesn't ring a bell.

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Speaker 1: Have you been able to find any reference to him online? Nothing?

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Speaker 1: With that? Ron gets off the phone, works some magic

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Speaker 1: and calls me back, hioh Ron, how are you no good?

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Speaker 1: High Shore is dead? Long live high Shore? High Shore

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Speaker 1: present a. I had a feeling that has transitioned high

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Speaker 1: Shore across the Rainbow Bridge. High Shore celebrating his blank

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Speaker 1: ear in heaven. Oh good one, thank you. One lawyer

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Speaker 1: who might hold the key to everything is dead. So

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Speaker 1: I keep digging with Ron, who is very much alive.

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Speaker 1: So why did Gilly Balls get We're assuming he was

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Speaker 1: killed by the police, right, I mean that's what it

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Speaker 1: sounds like. Well, yes, there are a number there are

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Speaker 1: a number of plausible theories. Um, really, what I'd like

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Speaker 1: to do is interview you in person. But I think

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Speaker 1: before we even get that. That's fine, great, yes, um,

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Speaker 1: but we have dogs here. You're good with that. I

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Speaker 1: am great with that, very excited about that, really really good.

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Speaker 1: Hi everybody, Um, this is literally she's an eighteen year

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Speaker 1: old Vijan Frise. We show up to Ron's office and

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Speaker 1: are greeted by three dogs, one of which is in

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Speaker 1: a corner staring at the wall. No, she just can't

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Speaker 1: see anything. She's just blind. So way to make fun

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Speaker 1: of her disability. Hey, why don't you make fun of

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Speaker 1: fucking Jack? He only has three legs. My office is

198
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Speaker 1: in the corner there. Ron's tall, with a gray goatee

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Speaker 1: and long hair pulled back in a ponytail. His office

200
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Speaker 1: walls are covered with framed photos, one of which catches

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Speaker 1: our eyes. This photo is a group of Hell's Angels

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Speaker 1: looking very mean and intimidating. They don't look mean. They

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Speaker 1: look as one guy said to me when he was

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Speaker 1: charged in a federal crime and extortion thing, and his

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Speaker 1: role was to look scary and breathe heavily. He said,

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Speaker 1: who do I say, I look scary, I breathe heavily.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when did that become a chrome. Then we

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Speaker 1: sit down and start talking about Billy. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: making time for us and meeting with us. We're now

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Speaker 1: unpacking the history of who this person is and who

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Speaker 1: he was and why this would have happened. And there've

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Speaker 1: been a lot of different theories and the conclusions are multitudinous,

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Speaker 1: if that's a word. But both of you are nodding.

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Speaker 1: So I go into the multitudinous theories, starting with how

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Speaker 1: Billy may have been involved in some illegal activities. Everybody's

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Speaker 1: doing drugs, everybody's up to like whatever degree of elicit,

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Speaker 1: And how Billy knew some ship was about to go

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Speaker 1: down because of Billy saying I want to get in

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Speaker 1: the wind, like it's time to move something. It's getting hot.

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Speaker 1: And how after he got shot, he was recovering by

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Speaker 1: all accounts, was on the mend and was like and

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Speaker 1: the city was afraid of the civil suits that she

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Speaker 1: was connected with, where some big time lawyers really thought

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Speaker 1: that there was going to be a civil suit. Maybe

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Speaker 1: there's some justification for the fact that, like he was killed,

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Speaker 1: what can I are you done? I mean, the whole

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Speaker 1: story is an odd story. So there's there's sort of

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Speaker 1: two periods of time. Here, there is the period of

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Speaker 1: time prior to the shooting and the shooting itself. Then

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Speaker 1: there's the aftermath of the shooting and his death. So

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Speaker 1: let's take the second part first, because it seems like

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Speaker 1: that part is fueling a notion that he was murdered

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Speaker 1: in the hospital, and so let me just try to

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Speaker 1: address that. The basis of all of this appears to

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Speaker 1: be the lawyer telling your mom what a great case

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Speaker 1: this is. So every lawyer in the world who wants

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Speaker 1: a civil case and wants to get retained says it's

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Speaker 1: a great case. No lawyer who wants a case ever

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Speaker 1: says this cases a doc going nowhere, don't waste my time.

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Speaker 1: He said, yeah, it's a great case. It's fantastic. We'll

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Speaker 1: make you know, millions or hundreds of thousands. This is outrageous.

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Speaker 1: They all say that when they want the case. But

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Speaker 1: maybe high Shore was different. Yeah, I mean I did

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Speaker 1: a search history on on Mr Shore, and let's just

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Speaker 1: say that that that high Shore is not going to

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Speaker 1: topple Mr Justice Cardozo from his lofty perch as an

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Speaker 1: Anglo American, famous New York jurist. And what kind of

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Speaker 1: things did you find about high shore. That makes you

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Speaker 1: think that mostly, uh, he was being sued for not

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Speaker 1: paying his bills and fighting over legal fees and the

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff that tends to afflict not terribly good

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Speaker 1: lawyers when they're on their way down. That's that This

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Speaker 1: is a revelation to me because the way that my

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Speaker 1: mom paying and it was that the lawyers that she

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Speaker 1: was connected with were some big time lawyers who really

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Speaker 1: thought that there was going to be a civil suit,

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Speaker 1: and that's why what happened happened. Bron does say that

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Speaker 1: it isn't always the lawyer talking up the case to

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Speaker 1: try to get it. Sometimes at first glance, a case

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Speaker 1: does seem great, Wow, the cops shot this guy to

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Speaker 1: death for actually no reason, uh, And then you start

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Speaker 1: to do some investigation and it turns out there was

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Speaker 1: a reason. I'm not saying this is what happened here.

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Speaker 1: I'm saying this is what does happen in many cases.

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Speaker 1: The reason was this guy had a gun, and this

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Speaker 1: guy pulled a gun on a cop and they opened

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Speaker 1: up on it. Um, My mom insists that Billy had

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Speaker 1: gotten all of the guns out of the house, so

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Speaker 1: there were guns in the house. But your mother insisted

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Speaker 1: that Billy had already cleaned them all out as preparatory

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Speaker 1: to him disappearing because of the heat. Exactly, maybe he

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Speaker 1: got all him out of the house except the one

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Speaker 1: he kind of kept with him to deal with the

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Speaker 1: problems that he thought he was facing. I mean, if

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Speaker 1: if somebody thinks they're being hunted and and about to

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Speaker 1: be attacked for their activities, legal or illegal, it does

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Speaker 1: strike me as an odd move that they divest themselves

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Speaker 1: of all of their firearms. Ron is just getting started.

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Speaker 1: The fact that he was shot multiple times doesn't set

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Speaker 1: off alarm bells. The cops are trained to shoot at

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Speaker 1: the center mass to stop the attacker. The fact that

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Speaker 1: he was shot in the abdomen um and seemed to

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Speaker 1: be on the men and then died doesn't strike me

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Speaker 1: as all that odd. Gut shots are very very difficult

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Speaker 1: to manage even today. The notion that the police murdered

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Speaker 1: him in the hospital, just I mean, that strikes me

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Speaker 1: as far fetched and and really really unlikely. But why

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Speaker 1: because it's not what the cops did they you know,

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Speaker 1: it's what people doing fucking movies. I mean, the cops

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Speaker 1: aren't like doing hits in hospitals. To prevent people from talking.

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Speaker 1: What was he gonna say? Okay, So Billy wakes up

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Speaker 1: and he says, I was in my own apartment, minding

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Speaker 1: my own business and the cops came in. Or I

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Speaker 1: walked in my apartment and there was some undercover and

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Speaker 1: a cowboy hat looking around. I con front of him.

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Speaker 1: You shot me a bunch of times, okay. Or what

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Speaker 1: if I've been dealing to this cop or buying from

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Speaker 1: this cop and he's a dealer. Okay, Yeah, I've been

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Speaker 1: dealing with this comp I've been selling drugs. He's corrupt.

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Speaker 1: He came in to rob my stash. I caught him

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Speaker 1: and he shot me. Okay. Wakes up and says that

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Speaker 1: cops is you're looking crazy. Didn't happen? You know, I

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Speaker 1: have no prior relationship with this guy, except I knew

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Speaker 1: he was a drug dealer. He came in, he pulled

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Speaker 1: a gun, and we shot him. And if we were

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Speaker 1: trying to kill him, we would have killed him, and

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Speaker 1: we didn't. We shot him. We recovered the gun to

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Speaker 1: guns in evidence. Just making up a story, but I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's a much easier way of dealing with the problem

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Speaker 1: of Billy than organizing a murderer in a hospital. You

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Speaker 1: just deny it, You deny everything. And nobody was going

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Speaker 1: to believe Billy Balls over the n y p D

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Speaker 1: under those circumstances, especially when they claimed they had a gun.

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Speaker 1: No cops got prosecuted in the eighties or nineties for

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Speaker 1: that matter, for bad shootings. I I there there was

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Speaker 1: nothing to fear. Then murder was on the mind of

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Speaker 1: a lot of people. Along one Harlem Street this afternoon,

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Speaker 1: there was a shooting, end of death. As a general rule,

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Speaker 1: though even in the NYPD did not go around killing

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Speaker 1: people for no reason on the cops part. And I

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Speaker 1: just want to clarify this. There were lots of people

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Speaker 1: who were killed by the police in New York City.

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Speaker 1: A Brooklyn man dead shot twenty four times by five

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Speaker 1: police officers. But it was always so called line of duty.

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Speaker 1: They say self defense, others say no. And it didn't

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Speaker 1: take a lot to get killed by the cops in

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Speaker 1: the line of duty. Still, doesn't you know he made

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Speaker 1: a motion towards his waist. I thought he had a gun.

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Speaker 1: He pulled out a shiny object that just moved back

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Speaker 1: and opened fired on. What you saw a lot of

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Speaker 1: was cops just not giving much of a ship who

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Speaker 1: they kill and under what circumstances, how many times, but

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Speaker 1: not sort of a premeditated murder or a murder in

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Speaker 1: the course of the cop committing some other crime. Theoretically, theoretically, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you could always posit an outlier. You can always posit

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Speaker 1: crazy cop, rogue, drunk, drug addicted cop who's totally corrupt,

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Speaker 1: who you know, is riffling through Billy's apartment to steal drugs.

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Speaker 1: Billy comes in, confronts him, The cops shoots him multiple times.

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Speaker 1: For whatever reason, the cop can't finish off the final shot.

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Speaker 1: He gets taken to the hospital. The cop is so

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Speaker 1: uber paranoid he's gonna tell the story and people are

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Speaker 1: going to believe him because the cop, after all, it's

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Speaker 1: crazy and since crazy people do crazy things, we doesn't

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Speaker 1: have to make any logical sense. And then the cop

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Speaker 1: engineers things to murder Billy in the hospital when he

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Speaker 1: seems like I'm men, sure, sure, And our proof of

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Speaker 1: any of that is, as I understand things, you have

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Speaker 1: not a single sheet of paper referencing any of this.

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Speaker 1: Is that correct? Okay? I mean, if we're making ship

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Speaker 1: up based on no evidence, we can make up any

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Speaker 1: ship we want, and it's all consistent with the no

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Speaker 1: evidence that we have, and there are answers that are attainable.

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Speaker 1: At least if your claim is this was an unjustified

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Speaker 1: police shooting, then one thing you would look to are

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00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: the autopsy reports, that is, was he shot in the

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Speaker 1: front or the back? Just kind of basic things. After

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Speaker 1: meeting with Ron, it's clear that we have a lot

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00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 1: of work to do, and it's also clear that there

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00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: may not have been a crime committed against Billy. So

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Speaker 1: before we leave, I asked Ron a bigger question I've

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Speaker 1: been wrestling with knowing that the truth is very complicated.

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00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: I think about my mom and the story that I've

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Speaker 1: heard my whole life, and I wonder what your opinion

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00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: is on the best way to protect someone like my

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00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: mother in this situation, if you think that the truth

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Speaker 1: is actually a weapon against someone who has lived thirty

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Speaker 1: seven years in grief, in the best way is not

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Speaker 1: to do this project. Let sleeping dogs lie, let the

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Speaker 1: dead be dead, Let people continue to live out their

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Speaker 1: grief in the narrative that they're attached to. UM. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's sometimes the truth is incredibly important, UM, but that

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's always important, or people always need the truth,

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Speaker 1: or people want the truth. And it doesn't sound like

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Speaker 1: your mother particularly wants the truth. Um, and so I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have done this, but now we are. I don't

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00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: have a better answer. Can we come back to see

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Speaker 1: you once we have some more pieces of papor? Sure,

378
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: trying some paper and then we'll see what we what

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00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: we can make of the pieces of paper without pieces

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Speaker 1: of It's very all right, thank you, Ron. Okay, what

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Speaker 1: are you thinking? Um? I'm thinking that it would be

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00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: very easy to be deflated by that, But I feel

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Speaker 1: like now I feel all the more determined to get

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Speaker 1: the actual evidence whatever we can get our hands on,

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Speaker 1: because as unlikely as it may be, as outlier as

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Speaker 1: it may be, the fact is that, like sometimes crazy

387
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: ship did happen. So I guess I'm a little bit

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Speaker 1: like I want to think about it like a lawyer,

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00:29:50,760 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: where I just want to see the evidence. Now, Hi, there,

390
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,239
Speaker 1: I'm trying to find out about so I called the

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00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: Office of Chief Medical Examiner in New York. The more

392
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: I'm trying to have some of his records released, and

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00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: I wonder what kind of documentation we would need to

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00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: do that. Do you have to the certificate. No, you

395
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: don't have nothing. We're trying to find Okay, what is

396
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: your your relationship? He was my mother's long term boyfriend,

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00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: so it's not related to do you not by blood

398
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: to me? No? But she was his partner. No, we're not.

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Speaker 1: You cannot sorry. On the families. On the close family

400
00:30:52,480 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: they can request okay, thank you, you welcompany. Only Billy's

401
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: blood relatives can request his records, and as we understand it,

402
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: his mother, his father, and his older brother are all dead.

403
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: But there's someone else, someone that could change everything. I

404
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: do remember vaguely a kid at one point. Yeah, yeah,

405
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: she was a sweet old girl. Whatever happened to her mom?

406
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: Was there a daughter around then? She was the daughter

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00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: of Linton and Billy's the legal father. The daughter was

408
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: two and a half when she was sent to Linta's

409
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: mother in Washington State. Did they tell you her name

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00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: when they first told you about it? Amanda? In the

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00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: next chapter of the Ballad of Billie Balls, Amanda Crimetown

412
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: is Zack Stewart Pontier and Mark Smirling. The Ballad of

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00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: Billie Balls is hosted by me Io till It Right

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00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 1: and made in partnership with Cadence thirteen. You can find

415
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: me on the Internet and Io loves you on Everything

416
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: and if you want to know more about my story,

417
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: pick up my memoir Darling Days. We also want to

418
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: hear from you. We have a voicemail set up for

419
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: you to call us Old School. Here's Mia, who had

420
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: something really nice to say. I just wanted to say

421
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: that it's the most enthrawling, incredible story I've ever heard,

422
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: and it makes me think about my own mom and

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00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: how she lost the love of her life, my father,

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00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: not because he backed away, but for a mental illness.

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00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: And I would do the same thing for my mom.

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00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: I would want to help her heal and I would

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00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: want to understand what happened in her life before I

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Speaker 1: came along. If there's somebody Billy reminds you of, or

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Speaker 1: you have a theory on what could have happened, or

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00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: you just want to tell us your feelings, call us

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00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: and leave us a voicemail at five seven oh three

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Speaker 1: nine to h You can also get into our discussion

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Speaker 1: forum on our website, The Ballad of Billy Balls dot com.

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Speaker 1: The show is produced by me, Kevin Shepard, and Ryan Swigert,

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Speaker 1: our senior producer is Austin Mitchell, editing by Zach Stewart

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00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: Pontier and Mark Smirling. Fact checking by Jennifer Blackman. This

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Speaker 1: episode was mixed and sound designed by Sam Bear. Music

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00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: by Kenny qcack. Our title track is Dark Allies by

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Speaker 1: Light Asylum. Thank You, Shannon. Archival research by Brennan Reese.

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Speaker 1: Thanks to Daniella Aria, Rachel Lee Wright, Emily Wiedemann, Green

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Speaker 1: Card Pictures, Alessandro Sentauro, Bill Clegg, Ben Davis, or In

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00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 1: Rosenbaum and the team at Caden's thirteen, and Slim Slam

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Speaker 1: for keeping me on my toes, and of course, my mom,

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Speaker 1: without whom none of this would be possible, ye, she

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Speaker 1: La