1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: Rivals is a production of I Heart Radio. Well Everyone 2 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: and Welcome to Rivals, the show about musical beefs and 3 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,119 Speaker 1: feuds and long simmering resentments between musicians. I'm Steve and 4 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: I'm Jordan, and welcome to the jungle. Baby. It's the 5 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: only way to open this episode. And you're not gonna die, 6 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: right we we we can assure our listeners that they 7 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: will survive this episode, but we don't have fun and 8 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: games even if they're going into the jungle. Spite and bile. Yeah, 9 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: you know, on our show, usually, you know, we talked 10 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: about rivalries between you know, one person and another person, 11 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: but in this episode, it's basically like one guy versus 12 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: the entire world. Man. I mean, you you've gotta love 13 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 1: Axcel Rose and just all of Guns and Roses. They're 14 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: just always starting ship. They're writing songs that piss people off, 15 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: dropping f bombs on TV, peeing in places where you're 16 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: not supposed to be peeing. I mean, it's just you 17 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: gotta love them. You do have to love them. They 18 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: were one of the biggest bands of my youth, one 19 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: of the first badass rock bands that I ever loved. 20 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 1: And of course they're big album came out after Type 21 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: of Destruction, and then they put out two enormous albums, 22 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: Use Your Illusion one and Usual Allusion Too. And many 23 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: great songs came from those records November Rain, Don't Cry 24 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 1: You Could Be Mine. But the song we're gonna be 25 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: talking about today not one of the best songs from 26 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: those records, but very memorable, especially in terms of rust infamous. Yes, 27 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: of course we're talking about the song Get in the Ring. 28 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: And in this episode we're gonna be talking about Axel 29 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: Rose versus everybody that he named checks and Get in 30 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: the Ring, Axel versus All, Axel versus All, and you know, 31 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: we're gonna get into this in the episode. But like, 32 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: one of the big things that fascinates me about this 33 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: song is that I feel like it wouldn't exist now. 34 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: Like if Axel could have gone on Twitter or Instagram 35 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: in and just vented a little bit, he probably wouldn't 36 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: have had to spend millions of dollars in recording studios 37 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: to record this song and then put it on an 38 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: album that went on to sell like a gazillion copies. 39 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a comforting thought. I feel like that 40 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: might be giving him more credit in the Sanity Department 41 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: than he might actually have, like he might have actually 42 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: really appreciated the fact that this angry letter took millions 43 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: of dollars and hours of studio time, like that might 44 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: have been part of the appeal. Well, I think we 45 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: can both agree that we're glad that he didn't just 46 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 1: tweet about this, that he put it on a record, 47 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: because here we are, almost thirty years later and we 48 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: can still dive into the minutia of Axel Roses beefs 49 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: with the rock press in the early nineties. So without 50 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: further ado, let's get into this mess. So we take 51 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: it back to the release of User Illusion one and 52 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: two in septemb I always thought this was kind of 53 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: the rightful successor to the apathet for Destruction, like Lies 54 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: for Me just didn't cut it. Yeah, I mean, Lies 55 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: does have patients on it, one of the great Guns 56 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: and Roses ballads. But you're right that it was basically 57 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: like a stop gap release while the world waited for 58 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: Axel to make these two huge, just massive albums. And 59 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 1: I always thought, use your Illusion, We're kind of like 60 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: Axel's plastic ono band record in a way, because it 61 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: came out around the same time that he got really 62 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 1: into regressive therapy and which dredged up all sorts of 63 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: childhood traumas with his dad and stepdad and his mom 64 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: and always horrible things, which I mean, he always had 65 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: a temper, but this shortened his temper into like microscopic 66 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: territory here. And I feel like these discs are just 67 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: the result of that. They're just panoramas of bile and 68 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: score settling. Yeah, you know, I love that comparison. I 69 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: don't think I've ever heard that before, but it just 70 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: makes me think of like if Axel would have said, 71 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: I don't believe in guns and roses, I just believe 72 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: in me. That would have been beautiful if that could 73 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: have been a lyric on this record. But I think 74 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: you're right. I mean, the influence of so going into 75 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: therapy was undoubtedly influenced not just on these albums, which, 76 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: as you say, are just full of bile and and 77 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: and confessional uh songs about Axel's youth and and and 78 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: everything that he's gone through in his life. It also 79 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 1: translates to the music videos that they put out at 80 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: this time. Are you familiar with the trilogy of of 81 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: great over the top music videos? That they put out 82 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 1: for the Usual Illusion albums. Yeah, there's some some mysterious 83 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: appearances of sea creatures in there that I never really, 84 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: never really understood. Yes, Axel does swim with the dolphins 85 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: in the video for Estranged. That is the final video 86 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: of the trilogy, the Return of the Jedi, if you will. 87 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: Of the Usual Illusion era music videos, you've got Don't Cry, 88 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: that's the video like where um Axel literally walks through 89 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: a mirror at one point while conversing with two other 90 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: versions of himself, which is incredible. Then you have the 91 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: November Rain video, which is I think the most iconic 92 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: of the three, you know, to carry over the Our 93 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: Wars analogy. This is the Empire strikes back of the 94 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: Guns and Roses trilogy. And we can agree Empire is 95 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: the best Star Wars movie, probably right of the of 96 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: the original three. Oh yeah, oh easily. And I think 97 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: we can agree that November Rain is the critical nexus 98 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: point of the Guns and Roses trilogy. You have actually, 99 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: you know, having a wedding with Stephanie Seymour, you have 100 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: Slash throwing his guitar into the canyon. Uh, all sorts 101 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: of great stuff. Um, but yeah, the dolphins really jump 102 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: out at me from does anyone look like with like 103 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: a Freudian background, know what dolphins may and please treat 104 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 1: at us because I really do want to know like 105 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: what that represents in like his dream Psyche. I think 106 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: I just know it has something to do with usual illusions, 107 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: like using your illusions and dolphins. There must be some 108 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: kind of connection, uh to be to be made there. Um. 109 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, I think the power of those records, 110 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: and you know, we're poking fun at them because obviously 111 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: they're you know, very over the top and and bloated 112 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: in their own way. But I know, for me as 113 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: a kid, like those albums meant the world to me. 114 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: And um, when I listened to them, I heard songs 115 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: about teenage alien nation, like I could really connect with 116 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: them on a universal level. But when you dig into 117 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: the lyrics, I mean, they're incredibly specific in terms of 118 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 1: Axel's inspirations and and and it's usually just him ranting 119 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: at somebody for some wrong that's been done to him. 120 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,239 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean, you know, it's a shame because 121 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: I was born in December and I wish that I 122 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:33,799 Speaker 1: could have gotten experienced g n R in in real 123 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: time because sort of experiencing it in the early adds 124 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 1: when Buckethead was there and Axel was like knee deep 125 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: in Chinese democracy tapes like it kind of colors your 126 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: view of of you know, their back catalog. And and 127 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 1: this is a great example. I mean, there's so many 128 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: piste Off songs where just the messages Axel just kind 129 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: of writing an angry letter You've got right next Door 130 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: to Hell, which is about his beef with his neighbor 131 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: who accused him of hitting her with a wine bottle. Which, know, 132 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: I mean, writing a song about hitting her neighbor with 133 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: a wine bottle is a totally normal thing to write 134 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: a song about, right, Steve Well, And I was gonna say, like, 135 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: isn't she the one right next door to hell? Like 136 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: if he's hitting her with a wine bottle, Like, I 137 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: feel like she should be singing that song, not him. 138 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: I mean, unless he's saying that it's hell to be 139 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: accused of hitting someone with a wine bottle. You know, 140 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: I just feel he said he was the victim. He 141 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: is the victim in the case of hitting somebody with 142 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: a wine bottle. That's a very Axl Rose point of view. 143 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: But I'm with I'm with the neighbor on this one. 144 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: I feel like, if Excel was your neighbor in the 145 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: early nineties, you're the one living next door to hell. 146 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: Whereas Axel should have written a song called right next 147 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: Door to an innocent person who's just trying to live 148 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: their life. You know, that should have been the title 149 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: of his song. But the worst part of that was 150 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: apparently was her bottle of wine. And it was supposed 151 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: to be like a very nice bottle of wine too. 152 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: She's also out a bottle of wine. Yeah, I mean, 153 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: at least hit her with two buck chuck, you know, 154 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: like not not the good stuff, but at any rate, 155 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: not that you should hit anyone with a wine bott 156 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: I'm just saying that's a p s. A. Don't please, 157 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: if you're listening, don't hit your neighbor with the wine bottle, 158 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: especially expensive stuff. Right. So, so you've got that, You've 159 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: got back Off Bitch, which is about Axel's girlfriend, old 160 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: girlfriend from when he moved to l A in the 161 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: early eighties. But I guess she she kicked him out 162 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: over his surprise his anger issues, So back off Bitch. 163 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: That's another one strange which you mentioned um sort of 164 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: about from a bummed out period from his life after 165 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: his marriage to Aaron Everley was annulled. Um what else 166 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: we got? We got you could be mine, which is 167 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: about is he's failed relationship with his ex girlfriend. Uh. 168 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: And then of course you have in the liner notes. 169 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: I forget if it's one or two or both. Uh, 170 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: you have a um you have fucked you St. Louis, 171 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: which is a You know, it's rare. I'm not familiar 172 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 1: with too many bands calling out an entire city in 173 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: their liner notes. Is that this is unique? Is that not? 174 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 1: That's a unique thing, especially when it's over an incident 175 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,679 Speaker 1: that was entirely your own fault, you know, Like I 176 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: think we can see a pattern here, like where you know, 177 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: Axel was writing a lot of songs about girlfriends who 178 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: he feels did him wrong. But it's clear that he 179 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: was just like a really angry, belligerent person and brought 180 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: all these things onto himself. And in the case of 181 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: the St. Lewis incident, Yeah, I feel like it's the 182 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: ultimate example of that because of course, g and Are 183 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: they played a show in St. Louis in in a 184 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: riot ensued because Axel refused to finish the show. He 185 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: blamed the security and what was the can you do 186 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: an Axel impression? Here? Like, what was what was the 187 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: exact quote that he said before he stormed off. Well, 188 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: he saw somebody in the audience with an unauthorized camera, 189 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: and he just kind of like looks the side of scared, 190 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:49,839 Speaker 1: scared of get you know, get that guy. And then 191 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: he just he's dressed like in my memory, he's dressed 192 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: like every one of the village people all in one person. 193 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: He's got like a like a leather police hat and 194 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 1: like a feather boa and a huge crucifix. I don't 195 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: know if anyone the village people had a crucifix, but 196 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 1: in my mind they did. And he tosses off his 197 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: hat and he dives into the audience. Duff and Izzy 198 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 1: I think the only ones just kind of like playing 199 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: these like low almost like the Jaws theme and uh. 200 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: And so he's out there wailing on this guy getting 201 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: his camera. He comes back on stage and he says, 202 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: thanks to the lay mass security, I'm going home. And 203 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: then the best part is he just he know he 204 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: has a mic drop he likes, spikes the mic as 205 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,199 Speaker 1: hard as he can on the stage floor and storms 206 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 1: off and uh, and the crowd rioted by the way, 207 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: I just want to say, like, Jordan's is like the 208 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: nicest person I know. So I like hearing you repeat 209 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: Axel Roses words because it's a great juxtaposition between your 210 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: kindness and his petulance. Uh, you got Rockabye Baby album 211 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: of like me just reading Axel rose lyrics to like 212 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: kids to put them asleep. It would and that would 213 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: be good. I mean, I think you're gonna be trying 214 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: out this later because you know, and when we were 215 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: talking about this episode, I wanted to make sure that 216 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: Jordan was the one reading the lyrics to get in 217 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: the ring, just because of his unassuming delivery. I think 218 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: it just really brings the songs home. We're gonna take 219 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: a quick break and get a word from our sponsor 220 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: before we get to more rivals. So, but yeah, speaking 221 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 1: up getting get in the ring. It's another example of acts, 222 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 1: so essentially using this mammoth canvas that guns and Roses 223 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: has to settle scores with the people that he feels 224 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: has wrong them, and in this case, of course, it 225 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 1: was the rock Press. Uh. The song originated as a 226 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: Duff McKagan song called why Do You Look at Me? 227 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: When You Hate Me, which great title, by the way, 228 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: I would I'd be curious to know, Like it'd be 229 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: nice to see like an alternate universe, like where that 230 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 1: song ended up on the record, and not Get in 231 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: the Ring, because I think that might have been a 232 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: better song. But at any rate, Axel takes this song 233 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: and he pretty much chucks everything about it except for 234 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: the opening line, and he turns it into this screed essentially, 235 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: And screed is really the only apt word here. I 236 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: don't use the word screed lightly, but I think it 237 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: applies to Get in the Ring. He's taken shots at 238 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: all of the big hard rock magazines essentially at the 239 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: time he's talking about Hip Parader, he's talking about Circus. 240 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: He takes specific shots at two pretty big journalists of 241 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: the time in the hard rock world. You have Mick 242 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: Wall who was a writer for Kerrang, and you have 243 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: Bob Guccioni Jr. The founder of Sipin. And look, I 244 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: remember where I was the first time I heard Get 245 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: in the Ring. You know, I bought the Usual Illusion 246 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: records like the week they came out. This was like 247 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: a huge deal for me. But I'm curious for you, 248 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: Jordan's because as you said, like you were born the 249 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 1: same year as Appetite for Destruction came out, So you 250 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: came to these songs a little bit later when they 251 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: were divorced from their original cultural context. What's your take 252 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 1: on the lyrics when you dive into them? And again, 253 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: like I said, can you please recite them for posterity's sake? 254 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: Oh with pleasure? Um? You know, I mean, on one hand, 255 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: you feel for Axel like he's an artists and artists 256 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,599 Speaker 1: are sensitive folk. He feels persecuted, he feels judged, he 257 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: feels misunderstood. You know that's not nice. But but he 258 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: didn't say that, you know. And there's a breakdown the 259 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: middle of the song, and it came out a little 260 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 1: something like this. And that goes for all you punks 261 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: in the press that want to start ship by printing 262 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: lies instead of the things we said. That means you 263 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: Andy C. Sharrett, Hit Parade, Circus Magazine, Mick walt Kerrang, 264 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: Bob Guccioni. It's spin what you piste off because your 265 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: dad gets more pussy than you. Fuck you suck my 266 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,559 Speaker 1: fucking dick. You'd be ripping off the fucking kids. Will 267 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: they be paying their hard earned money to read about 268 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: the bands. They want to know about printing lies, starting controversy. 269 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,839 Speaker 1: You want to antagonize me, antagonize me, motherfucker Getting the Ring? Motherfucker, 270 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: I'll kick your bitchy little ass punk. Who I gotta 271 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 1: say that? That's I've never heard someone say an tagging 272 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: as e motherfucker and had me think, Oh, what a 273 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:18,319 Speaker 1: sweet guy. You just bring the sweetness to that song 274 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: that doesn't exist otherwise. Yeah, I mean he he obviously 275 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: just like went off and again the idea that he's 276 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: in the studio recording this song and there's lots of 277 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: people around him. There's record producers, there's other people in 278 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: the band, there's people from the record label. I want 279 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: to read an oral history of all the people that 280 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: were around Axel when they recorded Getting the Ring. And 281 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: I want to know, like, did anyone ever try to 282 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: intervene and say, you know, maybe people He blames other people, 283 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: but in later years, like he was doing an interview 284 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: on like Eddie Trunk a couple of years ago where 285 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: he's talking, oh, yeah, I was a def so idea 286 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: to tell me to like really get my feelings out there, 287 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: and and the geff and a in our head Tom 288 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: zoots out. I think I say is then the guy 289 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: Pete Davison played him in the dirt They said, oh yeah, yeah. 290 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: They were telling me to just speak my mind, and 291 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: it was all their idea, which is, you know, totally focus. 292 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: I mean, we'll get into this in the episode. But 293 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: I find it hard to believe that there wasn't anyone, 294 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: any voice of reason, who said, Axel, maybe you just 295 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: want to shout into a pillow for a half hour 296 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: instead of recording this song, Maybe that would be a 297 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: better way to get out your aggression and putting this 298 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: on this enormous record. It's gonna be one of the 299 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: biggest rock records of its time. Um, if that didn't happen, 300 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: I wonder if people were just intentionally setting him up 301 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: to humiliate himself, knowing that in thirty years people would 302 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: still be talking about it on podcasts and having a 303 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: laugh over it. You know. It was either they tried 304 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: to stop him and he wouldn't listen, or there was 305 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: some sort of sabotage going on in the studio. Yeah, 306 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: I mean, just the insulation that must have been around 307 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: him at that point must have been truly crazy for 308 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: it to get to the point where this was on 309 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: the record that sold what seven million? Yeah, it's it's nuts. 310 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: But I think to get deeper to axel psyche, it's 311 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: important to know he had sort of like Nixonian levels 312 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: of paranoia when it came to the press. There was 313 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: a case in I think it was just after his 314 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: relusion came out in ninety two, when when j N 315 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: R toward and We're playing a show at Madison Square 316 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: Garden and a review in The New York Times described 317 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: the crowd as oddly restrained, which is, you know, kind 318 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: of a neutral thing to say. If anything, you could 319 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: read it as like, wait, why why isn't the crowd 320 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: going more nuts? A great show? Of course took it 321 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: that way, right. Axel wasn't offended when he read that, right, Um, 322 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: not so much. He He actually challenged the reviewer to 323 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: come on stage at the next night show and explain himself. 324 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: And then when when the reviewer declined, I imagine, politely declined, uh, 325 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: Axel went and give an interview in Rolling Stone and 326 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: said he didn't have the balls to stand by what 327 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: he wrote, and he got exposed. You know what, I'm 328 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: not going to make The New York Times anymore money. 329 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: It was an obnoxious piece. It was ship journalism. He's 330 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: just getting started. He could written, I didn't like the 331 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: show personally, I think they suck. But you know what, Okay, fine, cool. 332 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:06,679 Speaker 1: You can think we suck and I can think you're 333 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: an asshole, but don't try to make it look like 334 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: nobody enjoyed it. And then he went on the call 335 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: the reviewer a person with some severe fucking personal problems 336 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: and he has no business being there or writing about 337 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: our show. This is from a pretty pretty small comment 338 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: when you say yeah, and again, like you said, if 339 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: you want to read it as an insult, you can, 340 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,640 Speaker 1: but I think that the more sane way to read 341 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: it would be to say, hey, this audience is a 342 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: little dead. You know, this is a great band. Why 343 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: aren't they being more excited. He's writing about the audience, 344 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: not so much about the band, So it's like weird 345 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: for Axel to react this way. It's also I think 346 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: another thing that's important to note too is that like 347 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,199 Speaker 1: Guns and Roses, especially for the kind of band that 348 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 1: they were, was like pretty critically acclaimed at the time, 349 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: Like like you know, if if you want to talk 350 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: about other bands from l A whether it's Poison or 351 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: Motley Crue or any of those big hair metal era bands, 352 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 1: they tended to not get a lot of back from critics, 353 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: and yet Guns and Roses with appetite for destruction, people 354 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: were comparing to them to like the Rolling Stones of 355 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: like the early seventies. I mean, maybe maybe I'm wrong, 356 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: but I can't imagine the New York Times like reviewing 357 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:18,640 Speaker 1: a Poison show, you know, exactly, It's it's pretty nuts, exactly, yeah, absolutely, 358 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 1: I mean yeah, Like, I think Axel was definitely the 359 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: kind of person who was liable to snatch an insult 360 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 1: from the jaws of a compliment, you know. I think 361 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: that was just his way of looking at it. And 362 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: it's an interesting segue into talking about one of the 363 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: big targets of getting the Ring, which is mc wall 364 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: of Karrang Magazine because Nick wall Um. Of course, if 365 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: you read a lot of hard rock biographies like I do, 366 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: he's a very famous name. He's written books about led Zeppelin, 367 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 1: Black Sabbath, He's written a couple of books about Guns 368 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 1: and Roses, including a book called The Most Dangerous Band 369 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: in the World, which came out and I remember getting 370 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: that book up. Have you a familiar with Mickwall Oh yeah, 371 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 1: I means a legend. He's He's got another Axl Rose biography, 372 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: I think O w a R. I think it's called 373 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: the Story of Axel Rose from a couple of years 374 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,679 Speaker 1: ago and it's in another incredible book. He's a legend, yeah, absolutely, 375 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 1: And and he was pretty tight with the band in 376 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 1: their early years. He was he was a champion of 377 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: them in the late eighties as they started to get 378 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,479 Speaker 1: really big in the wake of Appetite for Destruction. And 379 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: he was really one of those guys that, like Axel Rose, 380 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: could just pick up a phone and call whenever he 381 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: wanted to do an interview. Um, if texting existed back then, 382 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: you would say that he was on you up status 383 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: with Mick Wall he could take he could text him 384 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: metaphorically say you up, and then they would be, you know, 385 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: having the interview. And it's that very relationship that got 386 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: Mick Wall in trouble because in early Axel Rose calls 387 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: Mick Wall up. It's like in the middle of the night, 388 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: isn't it. Yeah. I think Mick what was saying, He's 389 00:19:58,280 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 1: like brush and his teeth or something. I get ready 390 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: for bad. Yeah. So just and he got you up 391 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: just picture. I mean you and I are are journalists. 392 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: Imagine like you're getting ready in your pajamas, You're getting 393 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: ready to wind down, brushing your teeth. All of a 394 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: sudden your phone rings and who is it? It's Axel Rose. 395 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: I mean, pretty incredible thing to have on the other 396 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,120 Speaker 1: end of the phone. And the reason why Axel called 397 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: was because he wanted to vent about Vince Neil of 398 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: Molly Crue. And who doesn't want to vent about Vince Neil. 399 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: I mean, you've called me in the middle of the 400 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: night to complain about Vince Neil from time to time. 401 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 1: I mean, if you got a Vince about Vince Neil, 402 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: you should probably vent about Vince Neil to the journalist. 403 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 1: That's probably the best way to do it, I'd say. 404 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: And the reason why he was mad was because of 405 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: this incident that occurred at nine MTV Video Music Awards, 406 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: where um it started with Axel and is he straddling 407 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: from G and R performing with Tom Petty and the 408 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 1: Heartbreakers on the song free Fallen And have you ever 409 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: seen that performance? Is that the one with the snake down, Like, yeah, 410 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,199 Speaker 1: it's like prime era Axel He struts out there like 411 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: Pepe lapew and he sings the chorus of Free Phone 412 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: with Tom Petty doing the Snake Dance, which, for my 413 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: money is the greatest frontman dance of all time, unless 414 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: you want to give credit to Davy Jones or the 415 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 1: Monkeys for originating it, because he kind of did the 416 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: same thing, and you know in the video for Daydream Believer, 417 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: of course, yeah, I never even made Oh yeah, I 418 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 1: think there's always the theory that it's the snake dance. 419 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: I've also heard it called the Davy Jones dance that 420 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,239 Speaker 1: Axel does. But anyway, it's a great performance. But as 421 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 1: they're walking off stage, Vince Neil punches Izzie Stradling because 422 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 1: is he supposedly hit on Vince Neil's Was it his 423 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: wife or his girlfriend? I think it was his wife. 424 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 1: His wife who was a mud wrestler at the Tropicana, 425 00:21:54,920 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 1: I believe, just a yeah, exactly, no judgments. I'm just saying, 426 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: you know, it's perfect that Vince Neil's wife was a 427 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: mud wrestler at the Tropicana. Um, So Vince punches Easy 428 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: Stradling and Axel. You know, this is several months later 429 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 1: that he calls mc wall. He's still angry about this, 430 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: and he's basically challenging Vince Neil to a fight through 431 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: an interview with Mick Wall. And it's interesting, you know, 432 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: when you look back in retrospect, why didn't Axel just 433 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: punch Vince Neil after he punched is he? You know, like, 434 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 1: if you wanted to fight Vince Neil, you think he 435 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: would have just done it. Then the moment was there, Yeah, 436 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: the moment was there, is he is? He was like 437 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,880 Speaker 1: out right, he was like out cold. Yeah, apparently got 438 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: cold cocked. I mean, I think part of the you know, 439 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: the disagreement here was that, I think the idea was 440 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: that he got sucker punched. That is, he had no 441 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: opportunity to square up and do like a real fair fight, 442 00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: that Vince just just decked him backstage. But uh, anyway, 443 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 1: Axel is really hot and bothered about this, and he 444 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 1: he gives this amazing quote. He says, I tell you 445 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 1: he's gonna get a good ass whipping, and I'm the 446 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: boy to give it to him. It's like, whenever you 447 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 1: want to do it, man, let's just do it. I 448 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 1: want to see that plastic face of his cave in 449 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 1: when I hit him. I feel like I'm doing a 450 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 1: slight John Wayne impression here. I I'm imagining Axel talking 451 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: like John Wayne. I I don't know. I wish John 452 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 1: Wayne once said like ass whoopen? I feel like I 453 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 1: would like a lost scene from like The Searchers or something. Yeah, 454 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: I'd love to hear John Waye say is he stradling? 455 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 1: You know, just if we could somehow, if someone could 456 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: do a deep fake of that, that'd be amazing. Um, Personally, 457 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: I don't think he has the balls picking up again 458 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 1: with Axel's quote here, But that's the gauntlet and I'm 459 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: throwing it down. Hey, Vince, whichever way you want to go, man, guns, 460 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: knives are fists, whereever you want to do. I don't 461 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: air uh now. I I love this story, but like 462 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,479 Speaker 1: the follow up from it, like it wasn't very good 463 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: and Axel was the one who got mad about it 464 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: essentially right Oh yeah, I mean you know, there's really 465 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 1: no ambiguity about these quotes. Right here, he is challenging 466 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 1: Vince Neil to a fight, like there's there's really no 467 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 1: like metaphor, There's there's no nuance here. It's very literal guns, 468 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: knives or fists. Uh So, Mick Mick Wall is typing 469 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: up the interview and he's reading this all back and 470 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 1: he's saying, oh, geez, this is this is this is 471 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: pretty tough. And he calls Axel and reads everything back 472 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 1: and says, hey, man, like you, this is pretty uh 473 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,439 Speaker 1: it's pretty explicit here. You sure you want me to 474 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 1: you sure you're okay with this? And Axel says, hell, yeah, man, 475 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: I stand by every word. Uh So it gets published 476 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,239 Speaker 1: in April, is the cover story for Krang and you know, 477 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: as you would expect it ignitied a war between the 478 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 1: Motley Crewe and G and R camps and you know, 479 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 1: I mean they're both from l A. They run in 480 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: the same circles. Nikki six and Slash had been friends. 481 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: This is some like j versus Shark ship. It's about 482 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: to go down. I remember this playing out at MTV um. 483 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: I didn't see the mcwall story, but I remember on 484 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: MTV news this was like a big thing, and it's 485 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: almost seem like MTV was like trying to perpetuate this, 486 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: which I loved. I mean I was eating everything up, 487 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 1: like they didn't interview with Vince Neil where Vince Neil 488 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: is essentially like talking directly to the camera like rowdy, 489 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 1: rowdy piper, you know, challenging Axel to a fight. And Uh. 490 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: Later on in in the Motley Crue book The Dirt, 491 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: Vince Neil claims that Axel got back to him through 492 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: an intermediary and there was this plan that they were 493 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 1: going to fight in the parking lot of Tower Records 494 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. Uh, like, I I don't know, like 495 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 1: by the smoking dumpsters. Maybe I I don't know. But 496 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 1: apparently Axel bailed. And but while but even though he bailed, 497 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: behind the scenes, he kept talking in the press that 498 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: he wanted to Vince Neil. Like there was another interview 499 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: that Axel did with Kurt Loder where he basically said, hey, man, like, 500 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: if you want to fight in Atlantic City for a 501 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 1: charity thing, like, let's do it. And I think Vince 502 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: Neil even agreed to that too. But like, no matter 503 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: how often Axel would say publicly that he wanted to fight, 504 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: it seemed like behind the scenes he never would commit 505 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: to it. Oh yeah, he blamed the whole thing on 506 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 1: Mick Wall. He said that he was like a rotten 507 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,439 Speaker 1: journalist who lied and misrepresented his quotes. Which you know, 508 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: I mean, you can't misrepresent what's it gonna pea, guns, 509 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: knives are fists. There's not much to misrepresent there. But 510 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: you know how much he actually believed this in his 511 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: own mind is up for debate. But Mick got blacklisted 512 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,400 Speaker 1: and uh and he I think to this day has 513 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: a feud with him. I think in like the late 514 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: two thousands, he like still blacklisted him from Guns and 515 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,439 Speaker 1: Roses show in London, so he still pissed about this. 516 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 1: And look, Axel, if you want to collapse Vince Neil's 517 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: plastic face, like do it man, or you know, don't 518 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: throw the journalists under the bus. It doesn't seem fair. 519 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: But like it's the weird thing was he kind of 520 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: came out looking pretty good, right, Axel, like, even though 521 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 1: he totally just ran away from multiple attempts from Vince 522 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: to like actually call him on it. Yeah, I mean, 523 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,239 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting because this whole thing of like 524 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: Axel getting into fights with people, it coincides with Guns 525 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: and Roses shifting in esteem in the public, and it 526 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: has a lot to do with how the rock scene 527 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 1: was changing in the early nineties, Like during that whole 528 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: Vince Neil Guns and Roses thing. I think the press 529 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: looked at Guns and Roses as a more authentic band, 530 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 1: and they were more willing to give Axel the benefit 531 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 1: of the doubt in a rivalry with Vince Neil. And 532 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: you can see in the optics of how that was 533 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 1: presented on MTV, like where again, Vince Neil was presented 534 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 1: basically like a buffoon, you know, like pointing to the camera, 535 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: wanted to start a fight with Axel Rose, whereas Axel 536 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: had an audience with Kurt Loder like he was the 537 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: president of rock music at that time. You know, I 538 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: think they were sitting like in a garden, like maybe 539 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: behind Axel's house or something. It's just much more dignified, 540 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: even though Axel is also acting like a buffoon at 541 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: this time. But that would change, I think, pretty dramatically 542 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: once we get to the n nine two Video of 543 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: Music Awards. And I don't know if you know this 544 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: about me, Jordan, but I'm kind of obsessed with the 545 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two Video Music Awards. Oh yeah, I mean 546 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 1: I I would love nothing more than to hear you 547 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: recount this story. And this is like a chance to 548 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: hear Bob Dylan do like a lost first from you know, 549 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: times they are changing. It's something I would love nothing 550 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 1: more than to to hear this from your lips. Yeah, 551 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: this is my this is my freebird guitar solo. I 552 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: would say the story, but yeah, it's the story about 553 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: how Axel and Kurt Cobain almost got into a fight backstage. 554 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: So the short version is that Axel Rose and Stephanie Seymour, 555 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: they're walking backstage and they're passing by Kurt Cobain and 556 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: Courtney Love. And just for some context, like Axel Rose 557 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: really loved Nirvana, Like he actually wanted to put Nirvana 558 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,479 Speaker 1: on an opening act for Guns and Roses when they 559 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: did that big Metallica G and R stadium tour um 560 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: So he was a fan of the band. But like 561 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: Kurt Cobain looked at Axel Rose as a joke. So 562 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: he viewed him as like everything that was wrong with 563 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: rock and roll right like there, it's everything that was 564 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: like l a phony manufactured much like yeah, I mean 565 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: like yeah, exactly, like a macho guy who's dropping racial 566 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: slurs and songs, you know, disparaging language towards women, all 567 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: those sorts of things. And Corobain I think probably felt 568 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: that he was the antithesis of that um so Axel 569 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: and Stephanie Seymour walking by, and Courtney Loved shouts at 570 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: Axel and says, hey, uh, actually, do you want to 571 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: be the godfather to our to our daughter Francis Bean? 572 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: Probably not a sincere question. Seems like it was pretty snarky, 573 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't you say some elements of sarcasm could have crept 574 00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:00,959 Speaker 1: in there. I agree, And Axel takes a sarcasm and 575 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,719 Speaker 1: he looks at Cobaine and he says, you shut your 576 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: bitch up, or I'm taking you down to the pavement, 577 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 1: which he's not talking about the band pavement. He's not 578 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: just not like a slanted, enchanted shout out. He's talking 579 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: about beating up Kurt Cobain, and Cobain turns to Courtney 580 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: Love and he says, in a dead pan voice, Okay, bitch, 581 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: shut up, which is a great comeback. You know, It's 582 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: like he's obviously mocking Axel. And then Stephanie Seymour decides 583 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: to step in to save face for her boyfriend, and 584 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: she turns to Courtney Love and she says, are you 585 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: a fashion model? Courtney Love says to Stephanie Seymour, No, 586 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: are you a brain surgeon? And that's that's that's brilliant. 587 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: That's That's pretty much the end of it right there. 588 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: But it's another example of Axel wanted to start a 589 00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: fight and then just totally getting schooled by the to it. 590 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: I mean, did John Hughes wright that? I mean, the 591 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: lines of that are incredible, you know, yeah, I mean 592 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: there's something about that incident that The thing I love 593 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 1: about it is that it sounds like something a rock 594 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: critic would have made up as a metaphor for like 595 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: hair metal being replaced by grunge, Like he would write 596 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: a scene where Axel and Kurt Cobain have a altercation 597 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: and Axel Rose is the one who's who's humiliated. You know, 598 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: it just feels like a metaphor, but it actually happened, 599 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 1: which is beautiful. That's what I love and miss about 600 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: the vm as in the early nineties. It was like 601 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: like the high school lunch room of the rock scene, 602 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: Like you can have all these fights and stuff like, oh, 603 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: it's not the same now, but to get back to 604 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: to get in the ring, I mean, I feel like 605 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: the Bob Guccioni Jr. Part of that song which to me, 606 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: like Guccioni Junior takes it on the chin the most, 607 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: like he seems to like Axel's insult of him is 608 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: very personal and he's really going hard against him. But 609 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: in a way, that's also the insult that backfired on 610 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 1: him the most, right, Yeah, I mean this is like 611 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: the Kiss of Death and Godfather too, like when when 612 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: freid of betrays Michaels. It just there's so much. He 613 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: gets it the most because he felt the most betrayed 614 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: because Spin, back in the early days, was a huge 615 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: champion of guns and roses. I mean, people forget this now, 616 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: but Appetite for Destruction took something like a year to 617 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: crack the top ten, and a lot of that was 618 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: because of Spin calling the album that I think on 619 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: the future of music, you know, and Spin at that 620 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: time was sort of the alternative the Rolling Stone. It 621 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: was new, and it was championing all the stuff that 622 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: Rolling Stone kind of was missing, like hip hop and 623 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: college indie rock, and so that kind of endorsement from 624 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: Spin met a great deal. But um Axel's view towards 625 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: the presses touched on earlier, so to get more adversarial 626 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: and guns of roses had this contract in the early 627 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: nineties that they gave to anybody who wanted to interview them, 628 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: and it was truly an insane contract. It had what 629 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: I'll have It basically allowed the band to edit the pieces, 630 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,719 Speaker 1: allowed them to write the captions, allowed them to maintain 631 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: copyright ownership of the content, and failure to meet any 632 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 1: of those demands result in a hundred thousand dollar payment 633 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: for breach of contract. I mean, you couldn't, like, as 634 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: a journalist, you can't sign that. I mean, there's just 635 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: absolutely no way. Yeah, I mean yeah, just to contextualize 636 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 1: that for people who like aren't in the media, like 637 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: there is no pop star alive that would request something 638 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: like that and get away with it, Like Beyonce couldn't 639 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: get away with that. You know, it's insane that even 640 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: a band as big as Guns and Roses would have 641 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: even thought to do something like that at that point, 642 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: just refuse interviews like don't have a down on paper 643 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: that he's in the sand requests. I mean that makes 644 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 1: it worse because he said it is now on paper, 645 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: and Bob Guccione basically presented it without without commentary. He 646 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 1: published the contract just as was in the pages of 647 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: spin basically for mockery, like inviting like fans that just like, 648 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 1: oh yeah, you guys want to interview Axel Rose. Well, 649 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,959 Speaker 1: here's the contract, Like sign it and fill it all 650 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: out and send it off to him. And I guess 651 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 1: the Guns and Roses offices were just inundated, but tens 652 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 1: of thousands of copies of this bogus contract just because 653 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: Bob encouraged them, So he humiliated the group, and uh 654 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: and it gets worse spin. You know at this point, 655 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: obviously Axel has some you know, he's very controlling of 656 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: his image. Shall we say, Um, There's a man named 657 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 1: Danny Sugarman. He started as a music industry figure. He 658 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: started off when he was younger, managing the Doors right 659 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 1: after Jim Morrison died, and I think he managed Iggy 660 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: Pop too. He wanted to write a book about Guns 661 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,319 Speaker 1: and Roses and the band wanted absolutely nothing to do 662 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 1: with it. So I guess Danny Sugarman spoke briefly to 663 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,800 Speaker 1: Axcel like a bar for it sounds like it was 664 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 1: like a fifteen minute conversation. It wasn't anything big, but 665 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: he took the short conversation and spun a hole spin 666 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: cover story out of it, which Bob published, and Uh, 667 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,800 Speaker 1: the Guns and Roses team were not happy. They were basically, 668 00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: we didn't agree to this. We didn't realize this was 669 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: on record. This was not what we you know, what 670 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,800 Speaker 1: we said could happen. Um. And instead of blaming Danny Sugarman, 671 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: he blamed the Gooch, Bob d Cone um and uh. 672 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: And that really sets the stage for his verse in 673 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,320 Speaker 1: uh in Getting the Ring, which would you like to 674 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 1: take this again? I know it's my favorite part of 675 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:22,720 Speaker 1: Getting the Ring? Yeah? Again? You know the line directed 676 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: at Gooch. I like that you call him Gooch. By 677 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 1: the way, We're let's call him Gooch for the rest 678 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: of this episode. Uh, what you piste off because your 679 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 1: dad gets more pussy than you. Fuck you suck my 680 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: fucking dick. Now, let's step back for a minute. The 681 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: context for that line is that Bob Guccioni's dad, the senior, 682 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 1: of course, is the founder of Penthouse Magazine, and I 683 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:47,799 Speaker 1: guess the implication here is that as the founder of 684 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 1: Penthouse Magazine, Senior is has a way with the ladies 685 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 1: that perhaps his son does not. So very personal there 686 00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: going after him. Now there's this next person the song 687 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,479 Speaker 1: where he says, you'll be ripping off the kids while 688 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,800 Speaker 1: they'd be paying their herdered money to read about the 689 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,879 Speaker 1: fans that they want to know about, written mys starting controversy. 690 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: You want to antagonize me, intaggon as me motherfucker. Now 691 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: do you think that's directed at everyone or just GUCCIONI Jr. 692 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 1: Because it does seem like GUCCIONI more than anyone else, 693 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 1: was antagonizing Axel like he was a champion early on, 694 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 1: but he was really poking the bear, that contract thing, 695 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: putting on my my sort of reading comprehension halt for 696 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: a moment. It could apply to Mick Wall too, because 697 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 1: he did say that the whole Vince Neil thing was 698 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: completely made up. But I don't know. I prefer to 699 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: think that it's just at Gooch, just like this whole 700 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 1: the whole rest of the verse is all at him 701 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: now Axel. You know, of course after the intagon as 702 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 1: me antagonized me, motherfucker part, he says, getting the ring, motherfucker, 703 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: and I'll kick your bitchy little ass punk a clear challenge, 704 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,840 Speaker 1: a call back to the what was that the knives 705 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 1: fist or guns thing from the Midple interview. I mean 706 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,879 Speaker 1: exactly no ambiguity and equivally, you know, shouting this guy 707 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,719 Speaker 1: out asking for a fight. Um, but it's fair to 708 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 1: say it didn't turn out the way Axel thought it 709 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 1: would write. I mean, the problem was Bob was more 710 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,319 Speaker 1: than happy to get in the ring. Like Axel probably 711 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,439 Speaker 1: didn't know that that the good had something like ten 712 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: years of full contact karate experience, so he was down 713 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: the go. Yeah, and he was also like a total 714 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: sleeze bag. I mean that's the other element. And I 715 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:25,719 Speaker 1: think he liked the publicity that he was going to 716 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:27,520 Speaker 1: get from this. Oh yeah, I know he wanted to 717 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,840 Speaker 1: turn in this big stunt for Spin and I guess 718 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: he sent Geffen a letter after trying to get in 719 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,279 Speaker 1: touch with Axel a bunch of times, and the letter 720 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 1: was published I think in a bunch of different newspapers. 721 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: I'd like to read a part of it now. I 722 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: just I enjoy how how cordial, yet asked whooping it 723 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 1: is at the same time, Um, I think I have 724 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: a special talent for reading these kind of things. I 725 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 1: just I've just heard your song getting the Ring, and 726 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: I want you to know I hardly accept the challenge 727 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 1: and thank you for the invitations very cordial. Let's do it, 728 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 1: I say, at your earliest convenience, By the way, I 729 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:00,399 Speaker 1: mentioned in the press, that would be only who happy 730 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,319 Speaker 1: to oblige you. I take the fact that there's been 731 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 1: absolutely no response from you to indicate how busy you 732 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,360 Speaker 1: must be. I mean, what with canceling concerts, starting riots 733 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: and beating up paying fans trying to take pictures of you. 734 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 1: What a schedule you've had. Incredible. I sympathize. So I 735 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: just wanted to let you know directly that as soon 736 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:19,800 Speaker 1: as you're ready, I am too. Perhaps until then you 737 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,720 Speaker 1: shouldn't sing that song, at least not too loudly. Huh, 738 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 1: what a great What a great letter. I'm just picturing 739 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: him with like white gloves and you know, slapping Axel 740 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 1: in the face, you know, like I I accept your 741 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: challenge of a duel. You know, let's meet guns at dawn. 742 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 1: You know that's very much the tone of that letter. 743 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 1: Oh it's so good. And then he was on a 744 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,279 Speaker 1: current affair, like a short time later, and he had 745 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,799 Speaker 1: another great quota about Axel. I don't think Axel Rose 746 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: sits at home and wonders how he can make himself 747 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 1: look like more of a bad boy. I just think 748 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 1: he's a bad person, which touche. I think that was 749 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: probably a pretty fair assessment of Axel at that time. So, like, 750 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 1: did actually just take that lying down? I mean, was 751 00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 1: at the end of it he kind of doubled down. 752 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,839 Speaker 1: He was given a concert in in Wistern, Massachusetts, which 753 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 1: is actually my hometown, uh, in December nine one, and 754 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,279 Speaker 1: he claimed that, uh, that he was not only gonna 755 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 1: sue magazines, like all the magazines he mentioned, presumably, but 756 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:14,839 Speaker 1: also that the people that he mentioned in the song 757 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,080 Speaker 1: put a hit out on him, which he called, uh, 758 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 1: what do you call I think he called it a 759 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: real pussy approach, putting a hit out on him. Well, 760 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,840 Speaker 1: you know, I guess yeah, if that had any connection 761 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 1: to reality, I suppose hiring a hitman to murder Axel 762 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 1: rows over getting the ring would be, you know, not 763 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: the best move, although again I feel like that probably 764 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: was not grounded in anything that actually was in the 765 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 1: real world at that point. No, absolutely not. I mean, 766 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 1: so when push comes to show, Axel backs down. He 767 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 1: tries to justify an interview. He basically says that, yeah, 768 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,920 Speaker 1: getting the ring isn't necessarily literally about getting in the 769 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 1: ring with boxing gloves. You know, otherwise I'd be a boxer. 770 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,400 Speaker 1: But you know, to get in the ring, you need integrity, 771 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 1: and that disqualifies Bob it off the pat So that 772 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: song about getting in the ring wasn't actually about getting 773 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:05,840 Speaker 1: in the ring. And even if it was, I wouldn't 774 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 1: fight Bob because its integrity. So there's some some fun 775 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 1: logic there. Yeah. I like I like the idea that, um, 776 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: I can't kick your ass if if I respect you. Uh, 777 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 1: I only beat up people that I respect and that 778 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 1: have integrity, uh, which you know, Yeah, you wrote a 779 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: song about people wanting to fight them because they don't 780 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:33,320 Speaker 1: have integrity, and then you had like actual boxing sounds 781 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,360 Speaker 1: in the song. Like I think there's like a boxing 782 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,759 Speaker 1: bell song and there's like there's crowd cheering. Um, it 783 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 1: seems like a pretty literal representation of boxing in the song. Uh. 784 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:48,000 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's a metaphor. Sure, we'll let Axcel have 785 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:49,799 Speaker 1: that one all right hand. We'll be right back with 786 00:40:49,840 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 1: more rivals. I think we need to recap here Axel's 787 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 1: non fighting fighting history because we've talked about the get 788 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,719 Speaker 1: in the Ring song of course, and and mcwall and 789 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,800 Speaker 1: BOBU Joni Jr. Of course, being the two big targets 790 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,840 Speaker 1: of that song. You have the Vince Neil incident. Um 791 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:24,279 Speaker 1: again the knives guns are fists. There's no knives guns 792 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,880 Speaker 1: are fists at all. In the vicinity, uh of that battle, 793 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: you have the Nirvana incident backstage where he's gonna take 794 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,000 Speaker 1: Kurt Cobain to the pavement, doesn't take him to the pavement, 795 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 1: doesn't even play him Signed and Enchanted or any of 796 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,200 Speaker 1: those great albums. Really, the only fight that he gets 797 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,240 Speaker 1: into that I'm aware of, like as a public figure, 798 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,480 Speaker 1: involves the fashion designer Tommy hill Figure. Like, are you 799 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,000 Speaker 1: familiar with this story? I love this story so so 800 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,360 Speaker 1: much because especially because it's kind of like a I 801 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,840 Speaker 1: would say it past his prime Axels, Who's it's not 802 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,640 Speaker 1: even like nineties era, Like this is like mid odds 803 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:01,439 Speaker 1: Love Bowl two. I think it wasn't like oh three 804 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,400 Speaker 1: or oh six. Yeah, I think it was oh six. 805 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,440 Speaker 1: Like they were at some event, Axel was, you know, 806 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 1: at a table with Tommy hill Figure and Tommy Hill 807 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:13,359 Speaker 1: Figure's girlfriend, and Axel from his telling of it, he 808 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:20,600 Speaker 1: moved Tommy Hill Figure's girlfriend's drink because there was some calamity. 809 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:24,439 Speaker 1: That was about to befall her cocktail, supposedly, and then 810 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,720 Speaker 1: Tommy Hill Figure reacts to that by essentially slapping Axel 811 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,959 Speaker 1: Rose about the face. And I mean Tommy Hill Figure 812 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:35,160 Speaker 1: says that like Axel pushed him first, right, I mean, 813 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 1: isn't that his story? Yeah? I mean Tommy was acting 814 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,440 Speaker 1: completely out of fear, like I mean, his Axel's reputation 815 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,000 Speaker 1: with all these songs were getting the ring and everything, 816 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,520 Speaker 1: it just totally preceded him. And he said, Axel pushed me, 817 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,200 Speaker 1: And I said that was rude. And he noticed that 818 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 1: that actual had a huge ring on, and so he thought, 819 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,520 Speaker 1: you know what, if I get hit, it's gonna take 820 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,080 Speaker 1: my eye out, it's gonna take my teeth out. This 821 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:56,840 Speaker 1: is gonna get bad. So it was just it was 822 00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,440 Speaker 1: a it was a preemptive strike. And I love this quote. 823 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 1: Like Axel asked about this later and he said, quote, 824 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,640 Speaker 1: it was the most surreal thing I think that's ever 825 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 1: happened to me in my life. He just kept smacking me, 826 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,280 Speaker 1: which you know, I think it would be pretty surreal 827 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,200 Speaker 1: if Tommy Hill Figure was beating the crap out of you. 828 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,600 Speaker 1: That does seem like a dream that you would have 829 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,600 Speaker 1: you know, on having too much spicy food like late 830 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:27,120 Speaker 1: at night, and you had that dream exactly. Uh, you know, 831 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,920 Speaker 1: and maybe that's like some sort of weird anxiety dream 832 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,319 Speaker 1: about you know, not feeling good about your wardrobe, so 833 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,000 Speaker 1: like a fashion designer is beating you up. Yeah. I 834 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,440 Speaker 1: don't know if that would be the interpretation of that. 835 00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:42,960 Speaker 1: I'm at an amount of psychiatrist, but um, I just 836 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:44,960 Speaker 1: think it's funny that for Axel, with all the things 837 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:46,560 Speaker 1: that have happened to him in his life, even for 838 00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:48,920 Speaker 1: him he thought, oh, this is like a cut above 839 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,040 Speaker 1: the weirdness of my just everyday life. I can't believe 840 00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:54,920 Speaker 1: that this happened to me. I think it was a 841 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,839 Speaker 1: happy ending though, too. Didn't they like patch things up later? Yeah? 842 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:00,680 Speaker 1: I think so. I think I think that they you know, 843 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:02,759 Speaker 1: I think they both realized, like, wow, this is like 844 00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:04,960 Speaker 1: such a bizarre thing. Maybe we should just both try 845 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:10,400 Speaker 1: to put it behind us and and be friends. So anyway, 846 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,120 Speaker 1: in terms of Axel's fighting history, that is really the 847 00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,439 Speaker 1: only like kind of big fight that he actually got into. 848 00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:20,800 Speaker 1: Otherwise it's a lot of talk and virtually no bite 849 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,440 Speaker 1: coming from Axel, right, I mean, you know, it's just 850 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,440 Speaker 1: funny how this reputation just was really born, would you 851 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 1: say primarily out of getting the ring? Like I'm trying 852 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,920 Speaker 1: to figure out at what point that his reputation as this, 853 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:37,360 Speaker 1: like you know, w WF wrestler turned singer began like 854 00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,120 Speaker 1: it was it? Because looking back on it, I think 855 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,000 Speaker 1: it's around there. But was it earlier? Yeah? I mean 856 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,719 Speaker 1: I think there was an idea that Axel was a 857 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,680 Speaker 1: tough guy that predated getting the ring. I think getting 858 00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:49,520 Speaker 1: the ring in a way was the pinnacle of that 859 00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:55,000 Speaker 1: and also the beginning of the end, because um, I 860 00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,360 Speaker 1: mean the thing about Axel And again, like as I 861 00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,480 Speaker 1: said earlier, Guns and Roses was a big band of 862 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:01,880 Speaker 1: my youth. There's still a band that I love, and 863 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,440 Speaker 1: Axl Rose is like one of my favorite rock stars 864 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,160 Speaker 1: of all time. And I think the appeal of Axl 865 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,120 Speaker 1: Rose in much the same way as it is for 866 00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,520 Speaker 1: someone like Kanye West, who I think, weirdly enough, is 867 00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,240 Speaker 1: like the closest thing that we have to an analog 868 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:20,480 Speaker 1: to Axl Rose, like early nineties Accel Rose that we 869 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:26,600 Speaker 1: have now that he's like cartoon, you know, and like 870 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,360 Speaker 1: ultra real, keep it real, like human being, you know, 871 00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,720 Speaker 1: like he's someone that obviously where's all of his emotions 872 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,239 Speaker 1: on his sleeve and doesn't keep anything back. And you know, 873 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,040 Speaker 1: while his prime predated social media, he did have that 874 00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,719 Speaker 1: sort of like oversharing quality that is so common now 875 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,160 Speaker 1: with pop stars, like he had that in the late 876 00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,920 Speaker 1: daies and early nineties. But then he's also larger than life, 877 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,239 Speaker 1: and in a song like Getting the Ring, he's he's 878 00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:55,120 Speaker 1: he's basically like a pro wrestler, you know, and it's 879 00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:59,840 Speaker 1: it's part of what makes that song I think so lovable, 880 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,440 Speaker 1: is a piece of camp. Like again, I don't know 881 00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,880 Speaker 1: how you feel about that song generally. I mean, I mean, 882 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,040 Speaker 1: do you appreciate it on that level or is it 883 00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,239 Speaker 1: just like garbage to you? I mean, I have a 884 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,279 Speaker 1: hard time listening to it as like a real song, 885 00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,520 Speaker 1: Like it's more sort of infamous to me than I 886 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:19,600 Speaker 1: have a hard time stripping away the backstory from when 887 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:21,520 Speaker 1: I hear it, and I like to it. To read 888 00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,120 Speaker 1: Mick Wall's assessment of the of the song, which kind 889 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:27,239 Speaker 1: of mirrors my own. He calls Getting the Ring a 890 00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,120 Speaker 1: lot of l a puff about nothing, a big terry 891 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,719 Speaker 1: hair pulling tantrum from an overindulged child star shouting and 892 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,160 Speaker 1: swearing because he can't get his own way. UM. So 893 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,680 Speaker 1: that's that that kind of goes with with how I 894 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,120 Speaker 1: feel about it. I am curious that you mentioned that 895 00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,000 Speaker 1: Gus Roses big band of your youth, somebody you really 896 00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,200 Speaker 1: I won't say admired, but definitely you know, have an 897 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,920 Speaker 1: affection for um as a music journalist. Now, how do 898 00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:54,759 Speaker 1: you view that song, Like, do you feel a lot 899 00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:58,000 Speaker 1: more sympathy and affinity towards Mick Wall and Bob and 900 00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:00,960 Speaker 1: all the people we call that oh absolute? I feel 901 00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,840 Speaker 1: like I I put myself in their position, and I 902 00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:09,840 Speaker 1: it just seems unfathomable to me to be in the 903 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,160 Speaker 1: eye of that kind of storm, because you know, nowadays, 904 00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,400 Speaker 1: I think it's actually pretty common for journalists to end 905 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,160 Speaker 1: up on the wrong end of a stick with a 906 00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:21,719 Speaker 1: with a celebrity like you and I have both had 907 00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,800 Speaker 1: uh situations like where famous people didn't like something that 908 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,280 Speaker 1: we wrote, UH and they called us out on social 909 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:34,600 Speaker 1: media and getting a cent and you're, yeah, it's not fun, 910 00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:36,840 Speaker 1: and and and having a mean tweet written about you 911 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,319 Speaker 1: and then having like all of like the minions come out, 912 00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:42,520 Speaker 1: you know, all the dregs of social media coming out 913 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:44,320 Speaker 1: to sort of chime in and take shots at you. 914 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,279 Speaker 1: That's not fun and it can be pretty intense for 915 00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,680 Speaker 1: about you know, twenty four to forty eight hours. But 916 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:52,520 Speaker 1: that's not the same thing as like having a song 917 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,680 Speaker 1: written about you and having that song on like one 918 00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,360 Speaker 1: of the biggest albums in the world. And just I 919 00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,080 Speaker 1: mean tweets they come and go and people tend to 920 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,960 Speaker 1: move on after not a whole lot of time. But 921 00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,840 Speaker 1: like Getting the Ring is a song that again like 922 00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:10,560 Speaker 1: here we are, like it's like thirty years later and 923 00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:14,319 Speaker 1: we're talking about like how Mick Wall and excel Ros 924 00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:18,360 Speaker 1: were feuding in you know, like we wouldn't really remember 925 00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:20,320 Speaker 1: this stuff if it weren't for this song. It just 926 00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,279 Speaker 1: like blows it up to like a whole other like 927 00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,880 Speaker 1: level of like mythical proportions. It's an immortal feud like exactly. 928 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:33,600 Speaker 1: It's just it'll always it'll never fade. It's so yeah, 929 00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:35,480 Speaker 1: it's crazy, and like, you know, I don't think that 930 00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:38,759 Speaker 1: this is a great song. There's are I think there 931 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,560 Speaker 1: are like obviously many other songs from like that era 932 00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:45,160 Speaker 1: of G and R there that way overshadow this song. Um, 933 00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,359 Speaker 1: but in a way, this song is important as far 934 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:52,040 Speaker 1: as showing how the perception of guns and ros has 935 00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:57,040 Speaker 1: changed pretty dramatically in the early nineties, like um, the 936 00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,600 Speaker 1: usual loution albums that came out the same month as 937 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,680 Speaker 1: never Mind, you know, and like Pearl Jam ten came 938 00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:07,080 Speaker 1: out I think like a month earlier. You know, this 939 00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:08,600 Speaker 1: was kind of the beginning of the end of like 940 00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,920 Speaker 1: rock stars acting like this and getting away with it. 941 00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:14,120 Speaker 1: You know, there was like a whole other generation coming 942 00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:17,640 Speaker 1: in where they wouldn't have acted like this. There was 943 00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,279 Speaker 1: a there was a new kind of sensitivity, so there 944 00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:24,600 Speaker 1: was like yeah and like like kind of de emphasizing machismo. 945 00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,120 Speaker 1: I mean you could say that that came back later 946 00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,320 Speaker 1: in the decade, like with all the new metal bands 947 00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,800 Speaker 1: that came back, like the Limp Biscuits and and Corns 948 00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:36,000 Speaker 1: and bands like that. They reiterated that to some degree. 949 00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:38,560 Speaker 1: But like, you know, I don't think that those bands, 950 00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,320 Speaker 1: as big as they got, were ever on the scale 951 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:46,160 Speaker 1: of like Axl Rose in like right before this band 952 00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,840 Speaker 1: started to go into decline. Oh no, absolutely, I mean 953 00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,040 Speaker 1: they're getting the Ring is the high watermark right before 954 00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:57,000 Speaker 1: that sort of way, everydingulousness just completely crested right. So, 955 00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,239 Speaker 1: I mean, if we look at this song, I mean, 956 00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:00,880 Speaker 1: normally in this part of the episode, we would like 957 00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,640 Speaker 1: give the pro side for each side of the rivalry. 958 00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,239 Speaker 1: I mean, I think the pro side for the journalists 959 00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:09,480 Speaker 1: in the song is pretty clear cut that Axel was 960 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,680 Speaker 1: insane to write this song and that they didn't deserve 961 00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:14,960 Speaker 1: to get called out in the way that they did. 962 00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:17,799 Speaker 1: You know, the pro side for Axel, I guess would 963 00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:22,520 Speaker 1: be that thirty years later, when there's no danger of 964 00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:26,360 Speaker 1: anyone actually getting physically harmed because of this song. To 965 00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:28,600 Speaker 1: me again, it just lives on. Is like lovable camp, 966 00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,240 Speaker 1: and it's something that I enjoy listening to, not necessarily 967 00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:33,920 Speaker 1: because it's a good song, but just because I think 968 00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,520 Speaker 1: it's really funny and it usually puts a smile on 969 00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:38,040 Speaker 1: my face when I hear it. I think it's like 970 00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,520 Speaker 1: an ink blot test for how you feel about Axel, too, 971 00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,560 Speaker 1: Like I mean, if you kind of if you're predisposed 972 00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:45,840 Speaker 1: like I was, because I got to know him a 973 00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,320 Speaker 1: sort of like the guy who made guns and roses 974 00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,480 Speaker 1: disintegrate because he fired everybody or made it unlivable, and 975 00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:53,800 Speaker 1: you're predisposed to think that he's kind of ridiculous. You 976 00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:55,600 Speaker 1: think that this is just the ultimate moment of his 977 00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:58,640 Speaker 1: ego and just just insanity. But if if you like 978 00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,120 Speaker 1: and and kind of have a soft spot for his 979 00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,680 Speaker 1: his brashness, then yeah, I can see this being like 980 00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:08,640 Speaker 1: a really fun piece of piece of performance art. What's 981 00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:12,000 Speaker 1: funny now is that, you know, Axel Rose is now 982 00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:15,680 Speaker 1: known as the guy who calls out Steve manution on Twitter, 983 00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:19,279 Speaker 1: like like he's calling out members of the Trump administration 984 00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:23,279 Speaker 1: to get in the ring, you know, like it's one 985 00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:25,239 Speaker 1: of those things like where people kind of love him 986 00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,200 Speaker 1: now for that brashness, you know, because because he'll do 987 00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:32,160 Speaker 1: that to two politicians. I saw someone tweet about this 988 00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:37,160 Speaker 1: recently where they you know, they said, imagine you imagine 989 00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,440 Speaker 1: being it's and you're thinking about the year and what 990 00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:47,919 Speaker 1: the reputation of Axel roses versus Morrissey, and like things 991 00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:50,520 Speaker 1: change a lot of course of decades, and and and 992 00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,239 Speaker 1: how we look at things can shift over time, and 993 00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,000 Speaker 1: even as something like getting the ring and its own 994 00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,600 Speaker 1: small way can maybe be redeemed that that is a 995 00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,520 Speaker 1: that is a beautiful thought. I love that you've really 996 00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:03,560 Speaker 1: you've changed my approach on that. Well, Jordan, I hope 997 00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:05,520 Speaker 1: that you and I will never have reason to get 998 00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,760 Speaker 1: in the ring. Guns Knives are fist Stephen. Gun knives 999 00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:14,080 Speaker 1: are stupid until the back of the Tower Records parking lot. 1000 00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:17,480 Speaker 1: All right, man, Well until then, everyone, We'll be back 1001 00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:27,360 Speaker 1: with more Rivals next week. Rivals is a production of 1002 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,000 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. The executive producers are shaun Ty Toone 1003 00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:32,920 Speaker 1: and Noel Brown. The supervising producers are Taylor Scogin and 1004 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,239 Speaker 1: Tristan McNeil. I'm Jordan's Run Talk. I'm Stephen Hyden. If 1005 00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:38,040 Speaker 1: you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave us 1006 00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:40,879 Speaker 1: a review. 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