1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to River Cafe, Table four, a production of iHeartRadio 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: and Adamized Studios. 3 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 2: Just the two of us. 4 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 3: Rathie, I know so nice. We should actually tell everyone 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 3: that we're sadly for me very far apart. I think 6 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 3: I looked it up the other day. While we three thousand, ninety. 7 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,600 Speaker 2: Three, two hundred and something is miles miles. 8 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 3: You're in Ottawa and I'm in London. Mark is the 9 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 3: United Nations Special Envoy for Climate Action, the UK Prime 10 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 3: Minister's Climate Finance advisor, and the former Governor of the 11 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 3: Bank of England. Is also a really good cook. 12 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 2: Okay, can you just give me the go command when 13 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 2: you're ready and then I'll start. 14 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 3: Okay and a one and a two and three go. 15 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 2: Hello. I'm Mark Carney and i'd like to read. Sorry, 16 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 2: I'm going to start again, Ruthie, sure, because I don't 17 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 2: want to read. I want to tell you about how 18 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 2: to make torte dicapri. The ingredients start with three hundred 19 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 2: and fifty grams of blanched white whole almonds. Ideally, if 20 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 2: you're Ruthy from Andalusia, a sustainable farm, there three hundred 21 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 2: and fifty grams of dark chocolate at least eighty five 22 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 2: percent cocoa solids, two hundred and fifty grams of unsalted 23 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 2: butter and make sure it's soft. Two hundred and fifty 24 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 2: grams of castor sugar, something we didn't have when I 25 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 2: was growing up. And five eggs and make sure you 26 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 2: separate them normally. It takes me a few goes to 27 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 2: do that. Preheat the oven to one hundred and fifty degrees, 28 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 2: so this is going to be a slow bake butter 29 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 2: around a twenty centimeter cake tin. Line the base with 30 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 2: greaseproof paper and something I often forget. Then you need 31 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 2: to separate the almonds into halves. Finally, grind half of 32 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 2: them in a food processor, put that into a bowl, 33 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: and then coarsely grind the other half and include the 34 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 2: chocolate with that, cream the butter and sugar till it's pale. 35 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 2: At the egg yolks one by one, and then add 36 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,919 Speaker 2: all of the ground nuts and chocolate in a separate bowl. 37 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 2: Whisk the egg whites until they form soft peaks. Fold 38 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 2: half of those egg whites into the chocolate mixture to loosen, 39 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 2: and then the remaining egg whites, and then you're pretty 40 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 2: much ready. Now you'll notice that there's no flour in 41 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 2: this cake. One of the unique aspects of Tortie dicapri, 42 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 2: but it's part of its genius. Baked for forty five 43 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 2: minutes or intel set Tortia dicapri by Ruthie Rogers. 44 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 3: Oh, thank you, Mark. Interesting as I was listening to 45 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 3: you read sound so much like a cook and explaining 46 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 3: it so clearly, I think I think about the torture dicapri. 47 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 3: Which is also interesting, is that you do use very 48 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 3: bitter chocolate, don't you. It's kind of it is a 49 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 3: very dark chocolate. I mean sometimes I think when we 50 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 3: used to make it in the very beginning, we even 51 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 3: made it with one hundred percent unsweetened chocolate. 52 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 2: I think you did because one of your books you 53 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 2: have a handwritten note and you used to have to 54 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 2: source it from used to have to source it from 55 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 2: America Baker's. 56 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 3: Unsweet and chocolate. Did you ever have that in Canada? Baker's. 57 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 2: Well, that's you know interesting. Yes, my mother used to 58 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 2: use Baker's on sweetened chocolate and she used to melt it, 59 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 2: you know, boil the water and put a cup with 60 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: the bakers in the cup and then it would melt 61 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 2: in the in the cup and it would be added 62 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:24,959 Speaker 2: to the to the baking. 63 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 3: That's interesting because I was talking to your brother Sean 64 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 3: last night and we were talking about your mother. He 65 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 3: said that she grew up in a town that you 66 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 3: couldn't get to by road, and that you'd have to 67 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 3: wait for the boat to come in with supplies, and 68 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 3: that she was really passionate and really good baker. 69 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 2: What did she make No, that's right, I mean she 70 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 2: to go back to the start. She grew up in 71 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: a town called Britannia Beach, which is a spectacular location 72 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 2: on what's called how Sound. So if anyone listening has 73 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 2: ever gone to Whistler, oh yeah, there's now a highway 74 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 2: that goes through Britannia Beach. It's an abandoned mining town, 75 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 2: but at the time it was isolated, as you say, 76 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 2: there was a boat that would come once a week, 77 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 2: but just a beautiful, beautiful spot. And then moved to 78 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 2: the Northwest Territories with my father and that's where I 79 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 2: was born. So that's in effectively the Arctic of Canada. 80 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 2: And a great cook and a great baker, as you suggest, 81 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 2: as my brother obviously told you, and just a huge 82 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 2: variety of baking, from cakes to pies, to cookies as 83 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: we would call them, you know, wide range of biscuits. 84 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 2: And I was when I was younger, I was an 85 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 2: enthusiastic baker, inspired by my mother. So maybe that's partly 86 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 2: why I gravitated to the Georgia DiCaprio. My baking muscles 87 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: have atrophied a bit, so I had to go to 88 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 2: the simpler. But there was one thing. I'll tell you, 89 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 2: there's one thing about what's not really baking, but there's 90 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: one Almost all the baking was comfort food. I found 91 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 2: it tremendously comforting and enjoyable. Except there would be mornings 92 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 2: in Edmonton where I grew up and I'd come upstairs. 93 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 2: My room is in the basement, and I'd come upstairs, 94 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 2: and if my mother was making that was that was 95 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 2: a bad sign. I had a sort of Pavlovian response 96 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 2: to that, because it meant it meant that it was 97 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 2: at least minus thirty zero. That's when she that's when 98 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 2: she would make oatmeal. And so I've now overcome my 99 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 2: aversion to oatmeal, but it took it took decades. 100 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 3: So did you grow up with good food apart from. 101 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 2: Baking pretty traditional sort of variants of meat to veg 102 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 2: I remember growing up. I mean, it's it's not why 103 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 2: I became a central bank Maybe it is why I 104 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 2: became a central bank correction. But there being a period 105 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 2: of time during you know, the inflation years of the 106 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 2: mid seventies, where there were a lot of casse roles 107 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 2: in my life and sort of combinations of things which 108 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 2: are probably not recipes that are still used today for 109 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 2: a good reason, but they managed to stretch you know, 110 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 2: ground beef or other things a little farther which made 111 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 2: sense at the time. 112 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 3: Your house in London, I think it's be safe to 113 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 3: say that the largest room in the house was a kitchen. Yes, 114 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,559 Speaker 3: And I'd walk into your house there would be either 115 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 3: one of your four children or you or all of 116 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 3: your four children, or somebody in the kitchen, and there 117 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 3: was a sense that the kitchen was the place to be. 118 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 2: Yes, that ability if you can manage it to have 119 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 2: a kitchen and space in the kitchen for others to 120 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 2: be there, and whether they're reading a book or answering 121 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,359 Speaker 2: emails or I remember when two of our girls were younger, 122 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 2: one of their favorite things actually right up until last 123 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 2: year was they had the thing that they would do. 124 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 2: I don't know why. They would do it immediately after 125 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 2: dinner called airplane, which is you know, one of them 126 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 2: would lie on the ground and put her feet up 127 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 2: and the other would balance on that and they'd either 128 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 2: do that or immediately after very large meal, go out 129 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 2: and bounce on the trampoline, which is the kind of 130 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 2: thing you can do when you're twelve. But you know, 131 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 2: not the wrong side of forty and was. 132 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 3: It very different than your work life in terms of 133 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,239 Speaker 3: being the governor of the Bank of the meals become 134 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 3: very formal. 135 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 2: You know, that bit has changed a fair bit over 136 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 2: the years. So there is a formal dining room at 137 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: the bank and you know, when August visitors are there 138 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 2: either you can have a formal lunch or a dinner. 139 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 2: When you have conferences, you know, a dinner in the 140 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 2: what's called the courtroom, which is an absolutely spectacular room, 141 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 2: Sir John Sowne, the inspired Room, and that brings the 142 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 2: full majesty of the Bank and the history of the 143 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 2: United Kingdom to bear and it's you know, particularly if 144 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 2: there's a G seven meeting or something like that, have 145 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 2: it there. So that's great you know, there is a 146 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 2: very good cafeteria at the bank on the sixth floor 147 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 2: of Threadneedle Street, which most people eat in the old 148 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 2: and the new. I guess which for many institutions in 149 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 2: the UK is is the right way to do it. 150 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 2: You want to keep, I think, and certainly it's an outsider. 151 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 2: I wanted to keep some of the traditions. But it 152 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 2: wasn't the case of, you know, going for lunch every 153 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 2: day in the state rooms and you know, finish it 154 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 2: off with port, although there were many days which I 155 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 2: wish I had. 156 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 3: Sneak down there. It's also interesting point of people about 157 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 3: working and food. You know. One of my favorite stories 158 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 3: about you was when one of my granddaughter's friends asked 159 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 3: you who was the most important person you'd ever met, 160 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 3: and you said the Pope. And you said that you'd 161 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 3: had lunch with the Pope, and I was wondering. I 162 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 3: never asked you, do you remember what you ate? What 163 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 3: would the Pope have for lunch? 164 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 2: Well, we were in the heart of Rome. I think 165 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 2: it's interesting the question. I don't know the answer to this. 166 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 2: I suspect what the pope has for lunch, or at 167 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 2: least this pope has for lunch is much simpler than 168 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 2: what the Pope or the Vaticans served at the lunch 169 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 2: that I attended, because he wasn't originally scheduled to come 170 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 2: to this lunch, and it was the day before the 171 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 2: World Cup final between Argentina and Germany, so it would 172 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 2: have been twenty fourteen, I guess. And of course he's Argentinian, 173 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 2: and the previous pope is who's still alive, is German. 174 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 2: So that was, you know, and he showed up. The 175 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 2: Pope showed up at the lunch, and you know a 176 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 2: bit of the conversation about that. But it was an 177 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 2: elaborate lunch. You know, several courses and there was a 178 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 2: pasta course and I think a fish course is the main, 179 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 2: then cheese and dessert. But he told he told this 180 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 2: parable at the at the start of the lunch, the 181 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 2: Pope says that, look, we're going to have a nice 182 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 2: meal together. It's very important sharing, and we're going to 183 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 2: start the meal with wine. And wine is many things. 184 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 2: It has a bouquet, a color, taste that compliments the 185 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 2: food and alcohol which enlivens our senses, and it enlivens 186 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 2: all our senses effectively. But we will finish the meal 187 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 2: with and grap is alcohol and it's wine distilled. And 188 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 2: I think this is an interesting analogy. But then he 189 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 2: makes the analogy which says, and humanity. People are many things. 190 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 2: They're rational, they're passionate, they're curious, they're altruistic, they're self interested. 191 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 2: The market is one thing, so he means the market economy. 192 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 2: It's one thing. It's self interested. Your job and then 193 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 2: he points to everyone who I was at a conference 194 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 2: with a very wide range of people from business and finance, 195 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 2: and he points to all of us, sixty odd people 196 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 2: who were at this lunch, and he says, your job 197 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 2: is to turn the grappa back into wine, to turn 198 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 2: the market back into humanity, and he sits down. 199 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 3: When we met in Tuscany, there would be times of 200 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 3: the day where we just couldn't find you because you 201 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 3: were running, and you would disappear for hours. I remember 202 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:41,719 Speaker 3: one part of the beginning of your day, which was 203 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 3: drinking a whole leader of water, which I still tried 204 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 3: to do because you know, you told me that. I 205 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 3: think that it was Jeff Bezos who. 206 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 2: Told you the other way around. Ruthy, it was nothing, 207 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 2: It was nothing until I told him. I'll tell you. 208 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 2: It was my friend Nikolai Arens who told me this, 209 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 2: and he's a chemist, very accomplished guy, and he told 210 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,839 Speaker 2: me the most important thing for cognitive functioning is to 211 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 2: drink a lead of water, you know, first thing in 212 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 2: the morning, because whatever whatever you've eaten or drank the 213 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 2: night before, your brain dehydrates overnight. So this helps. And 214 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 2: I began doing this. I happened to I'm not like 215 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 2: super close to Jeff Bezos, but I mentioned it to 216 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 2: him when I saw I was on a hike with him. 217 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 3: Where was that. 218 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 2: It was in Switzerland. Actually, I mentioned it to him, 219 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 2: and then I saw him about ten years later, and 220 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 2: he said remarkably, he said, the guy's got to get 221 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 2: memory said, he said, Mark, I think of you every 222 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 2: morning when I drink water, which is fair because I 223 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 2: do think of Nikolai every morning. And now I think 224 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 2: of you, Ruthie, and I wonder if you're I think 225 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 2: of you. 226 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,839 Speaker 3: And now everyone listening to this that we're all going 227 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 3: to be super cognitive. 228 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. I'm going to all. 229 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:52,719 Speaker 3: Things of each other. So well, there's quite a lot 230 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 3: of time to think when you're drinking that much water. 231 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 3: Is it that so you're still starting your day with water, 232 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 3: and then do you have do you start writing right away? 233 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 3: I was thinking about whether you could describe your working 234 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 3: day when you were writing this extraordinary book value building 235 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 3: a better world for all. 236 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm most productive, as I suspect many people are, 237 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 2: in writing in the morning and a real premium on 238 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 2: getting up. Ideally and most mornings, certainly during the lockdown, 239 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 2: meditate for fifteen twenty minutes, water right for a couple 240 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 2: of hours before eating, and ideally I left when I 241 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 2: finished writing the day before the work in mid thought 242 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 2: if you will almost mid paragraphs so you have something 243 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,439 Speaker 2: to pick up when you start writing. Yeah, it's slightly 244 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 2: I found it tough if you finished a chapter and 245 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 2: then a blank page issue as opposed to restart my 246 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 2: mind on it? 247 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 3: Is that something unique to you or a lot of it? 248 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 3: I never that's interesting. 249 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm slightly embarrassed to call myself a writer, 250 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 2: and I guess I do. 251 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 3: I've written a book. 252 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 2: I've graduated. You quickly moved me on from being baker 253 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:02,119 Speaker 2: in this conversation. 254 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 3: We'll go back to the baking for sure. By that time, 255 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 3: is everybody out and about and you have breakfast by 256 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 3: yourself or do you make it yoursel? 257 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would tend to make myself a granola some 258 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 2: fruit cappuccino. 259 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 3: You are talking all the time about values, values and 260 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 3: food and climate, how we're going to feed everyone and 261 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 3: still be sustainable. Is that part of your concern right now? 262 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 2: In terms, I think there's a few things that come 263 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 2: out of that. One is, you know, I've always found 264 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, the provenance of all food at 265 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 2: the River Cafe, and you've researched it and in most 266 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 2: cases visited you know, whether it's your example of the almonds, 267 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 2: and I know we've had long conversations about the you know, 268 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 2: the olive oil and the tomatoes, and I mean and 269 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 2: on and on and on. And that's important because the connection, 270 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 2: the connection that comes with that, and the understanding that 271 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 2: comes with that, and the and in many cases the 272 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 2: history that comes with the methods of productions and the 273 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 2: values that come from the people. So there's that. Then 274 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 2: the big issue which you're alluding to, which is on climate, 275 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 2: which is that around twenty percent or so of greenhouse 276 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 2: gas emissions come from from agriculture and land use, and 277 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 2: a substantial proportion of that is you know, could be 278 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 2: reduced through regenerative agriculture, through reforestation, through different methods, different 279 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 2: foods as well. And the reality with climate change is 280 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 2: there's there's no one simple solution to climate change. There's 281 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 2: no one silver bullet, and there's many things that do 282 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 2: need to change, and part of it is to ensure 283 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 2: that we have sustainable agriculture, that we have sustainable methods, 284 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 2: and that the that as the world, you know, we hope, 285 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 2: as the world becomes more equal and people progress around 286 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 2: the world, that we can not just feed everybody, but 287 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 2: we can feed everybody in a sustainable way into a 288 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 2: high standard. And that requires knowing where the food comes from, 289 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 2: how it's prepared, sourcing locally as much as possible, obviously, 290 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 2: and having the balance. And you know, we have a 291 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 2: long way to go on that, but a much greater 292 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 2: awareness and certainly you find I know with your with 293 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 2: your grandchildren. I find with my children and their friends 294 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 2: in acute awareness of these issues and a passionate about 295 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 2: them that you know gives one hope for change and 296 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 2: an important journey that we're all going to be on. 297 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 3: What do you look for in a restaurant? Do you 298 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 3: love restaurants? What do you love? 299 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 2: You look for a variety of things. I like simple. 300 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 2: I like simple and open as a restaurant, so I 301 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 2: don't like sort of dark and you know creviced restaurants 302 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 2: so much. I like simple and open. I think influenced 303 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 2: a bit. I spent a year in Japan, so that, 304 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 2: you know, kind of reinforce some of this. And I 305 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 2: do like when even I can tell the quality of 306 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 2: the ingredients and the preparation, the sort of slow cooking 307 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 2: that you know, brings out the intensity of the flavors. 308 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 2: I like vibrancy in a restaurant. I like hearing the 309 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 2: sort of yeah buzz if you will of a restaurant. 310 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 3: Was there a time when you would go into a 311 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 3: restaurant here people would stop you what people want to 312 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 3: ask you about? Or would they interrupt your meal? And 313 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 3: you would they ask you about when all that was 314 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 3: going on? Did you feel that it wasn't private that 315 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 3: you did you sort of grass yourself for people? I mean, 316 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 3: I saw what happened, and the reason I do is 317 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 3: I remember walking down a restaurant with you, and people 318 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 3: definitely wanted to reach out. 319 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 2: People would trip me as I was. 320 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, they know they were they were excited, but people 321 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 3: eating the River Cafe were never want to trip you. 322 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 2: That was one of the unusual things I think during 323 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 2: the period that he Look, it's never a good when 324 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 2: central bankers are more prominent, because it means that there's 325 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,679 Speaker 2: deep problems in the financial system or the economy. But 326 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 2: given that circumstance, I mean, I yes, I was recognized 327 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 2: virtually everywhere I went and quite often stopped. And that 328 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 2: was that took a fair bit of getting used to 329 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 2: and you know, accepted, and. 330 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 3: You were able to eat. I think we try and 331 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 3: we try and protect you know, as much as possible 332 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 3: because you are I mean, you know, there is the 333 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,959 Speaker 3: public nature of a restaurant and then the very private 334 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 3: nature of the table. So you just go to a 335 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 3: restaurant for the comfort and the connection. And I think 336 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 3: that comfort with your mother's cooking and connection with you know, 337 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 3: the times you and I have spent in places and 338 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 3: all different types of cooking and making zucchini flowers and 339 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 3: on the grill with Luigi and the Fiorentinas, and the 340 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 3: fact that you're so far away from me now and 341 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 3: we're connected by a conversation about food ingredients and eating 342 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 3: and then the comfort of that, you know, the comfort 343 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 3: of being able to see you on my screen and 344 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:09,919 Speaker 3: to talk to you about food and the memories that 345 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 3: we have. And so I was thinking in terms of 346 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:18,199 Speaker 3: comfort is talking about food, comfort is eating food. And 347 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 3: I was wondering for my last question to ask you, 348 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 3: what would your comfort food be? 349 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 2: Comfort food? Okay, can I just say one thing before 350 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 2: I say that? Which is that? So I mentioned my 351 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 2: Pavlovian response to oatmeal, which was negative, my Pavlovian response 352 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 2: to if you're at Diezuka, you know zucchini flowers and yeah, 353 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 2: Luigi's fioran tina, this amazing thick state is absolutely the opposite. 354 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 2: I think, I think absolutely heaven and that whole ritual 355 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 2: around both of those is an extraordinary thing and a 356 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 2: connection comfort food. I say my comfort food is pasta palmodoro, 357 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 2: and not just because I'm on your podcast, but the 358 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 2: way you make it, because it combines exactly what I like. 359 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 2: It is a simple recipe, very few ingredients. It takes, 360 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 2: what does it take? It probably takes two hours to 361 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 2: prepare the sauce. You have to cook the onions for 362 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 2: a long time till they dissolve in the olive oil, 363 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 2: and then you add the tomatoes and then cook it 364 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 2: and reduce it down to so it's both things. Yeah, 365 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 2: got garlic, and then it's combined with the pasta, and 366 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 2: it's so good. And you know that every time I 367 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 2: come into your restaurant, I look at the venue and 368 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 2: I you know, I pick out a mane and I 369 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 2: pick out you know, it's something for the dessert, et cetera, 370 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 2: and then I say, can I have the pasta palmondorow 371 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 2: And the answer is yes. 372 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 3: The answers always is. 373 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 2: That is totally comforting and just a final thing which 374 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 2: if I may, to bring it all full circle, which 375 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 2: is the other day you and I had a lovely. 376 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 3: Zoomah to celebrate the publication of your book and the friendship. 377 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 2: And I seem to recall that some of the guests 378 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 2: took comfort in the gronies. But our two daughters, Cleo 379 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:11,640 Speaker 2: and Tess, who are the two home with us now, 380 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 2: they made that's right, River Cafe, and I didn't know 381 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 2: they were going to do this, but they made River 382 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 2: Cafe pasta palmodoro, including the homemade pasta, which it was 383 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 2: a perfect comfort combination. So yeah, that's pretty good. 384 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 3: Well, there we are connection, comfort and a guest Thank 385 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 3: you Mark, Thank you Ruth. To visit the online shop 386 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 3: of the River Cafe, go to shop Therivercafe dot co 387 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 3: dot UK. 388 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: River Cafe Table four is a production of iHeartRadio and 389 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: Adamized Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 390 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.