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Speaker 1: On the Doe Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?

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Speaker 1: Or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and best

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Speaker 1: start changing it with the bec Del cast. Hey, Caitlin, Yes, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: you look really familiar. Um do you want to go

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Speaker 1: on a road trip to Florida and just see what happens?

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Speaker 1: I think that's a great idea and I don't see

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Speaker 1: how anything could go wrong. Every story that starts with

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Speaker 1: an unsolicited invitation to Florida has canonically ended well, so

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Speaker 1: I would encourage you to, you know, come along, and

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Speaker 1: it's gonna it's gonna be so regular. Um, who's all going, Oh? Well, um?

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Speaker 1: You know, so a couple of guys. Okay, cool, sounds

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Speaker 1: good and safe. Yeah, it's going to be safe regular

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Speaker 1: and I'm telling the truth. So nice, shall we Let's go?

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Speaker 1: All right, let's do it? Well, you know, I did

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Speaker 1: my best. That was my intro. I loved it. They're

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Speaker 1: not all hit, but it is related to the movie.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Backtel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus,

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Speaker 1: my name is Caitlin Durante, and this is our show

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Speaker 1: where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using

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Speaker 1: the Bechtel test simply as a jumping off point to

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Speaker 1: initiate a larger conversation. But what is the back del test.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember. I'll tell you. It's a media metric

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Speaker 1: created by a queer cartoonist, Alison Bechtel, sometimes called the

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Speaker 1: Bechtel Wallace test. There are many versions of it. This

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Speaker 1: is the one that we use currently. Two people of

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Speaker 1: a marginalized gender must have names, and they must speak

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Speaker 1: to each other about something other than a man for

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Speaker 1: a two line exchange of dialogue at least, and ideally

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Speaker 1: that exchange of dialogue is narratively meaningful and important. And

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Speaker 1: today we're going to be covering a movie that has

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Speaker 1: It's a newer movie, but it's been requested on the

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Speaker 1: show since I think the trailer came out. I feel

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Speaker 1: like that happens with a newer movies sometimes, like the

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Speaker 1: second the trailer jobs, our listeners are like good. But

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Speaker 1: due to the pandemic, it's kind of taken a while

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Speaker 1: for this movie to really become accessible. But now that

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Speaker 1: it has, we're thrilled to be covering it. And we

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Speaker 1: have a wonderful guest coming to discuss the movie of

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Speaker 1: the day, which is Zola. And our guest is a

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Speaker 1: writer and op ed columnists for teen Vogue. It's Jamila Nasheede. Okay,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. Welcome, thanks for coming,

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Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on. So tell us about your relationship

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Speaker 1: with the movie Zola, or just kind of your general

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Speaker 1: feelings about your general experience with it. Yeah, well, so

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Speaker 1: I saw it in UM at Sundance Festival. Cool. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was really cool. That was my first Sundance UM.

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Speaker 1: That's it was. It was definitely amazing. And it's funny

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Speaker 1: because I had no intention on seeing like you know

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Speaker 1: when you take a look at the program initially and

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Speaker 1: you kind of read like the synapsis of all the films,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know, for some reason, I just it

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Speaker 1: wasn't at the top of my list. But I was

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Speaker 1: chatting with my editor at teen Vogue on like which

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Speaker 1: films they'd like me to cover, and they specifically asked

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Speaker 1: for Zola. So I was like, sure, I'll do it, um,

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Speaker 1: but I wasn't like pressed to see it immediately. UM.

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Speaker 1: So I didn't go to the premiere, but quickly as

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Speaker 1: I'm there like I'm there for maybe like a day

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Speaker 1: or two before I saw it, and it's hands down

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Speaker 1: the movie that I was hearing about the most, like everyone,

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Speaker 1: because you know, you're out, you're at dinners again. This

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Speaker 1: is pretty pandemic um, like right just before the pandemic

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Speaker 1: to really like weeks. It was literally the last thing

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Speaker 1: that I did before the pandemic that's soiled lifetime ago. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, so everyone was talking about this movie and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, what is going on? Everyone just had nothing

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Speaker 1: but amazing things to say about it. So I was

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Speaker 1: really excited to see it. Um. And then I finally

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Speaker 1: like fitted into my schedule and I had a plan

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Speaker 1: to see it. And I actually say that two different

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Speaker 1: hotels while I was at Sundance because I was learning

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Speaker 1: the ropes Sundances like a whole like you have to

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Speaker 1: I think you have to go at least once to

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Speaker 1: kind of figure it out, and then after the first time,

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Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, so this is what to do, this

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Speaker 1: is where to stay. So I checked into my second

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Speaker 1: hotel and it's the day that I'm going to see

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Speaker 1: Zola and there's a steam room there and that's like

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Speaker 1: that's my jam. So I go down to the steam room.

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Speaker 1: It's park City, Utah. All I brought lower like my

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Speaker 1: snow boots, so I have like, you know, like my swimsuit,

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Speaker 1: but I have a robe on over it and just

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Speaker 1: like snow boots. And I'm going into this theme room

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Speaker 1: and come out and I'm just looking kind of crazy

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Speaker 1: and I see Jeremy o' harris in my hotel and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my gosh. And he's um, one of

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Speaker 1: the co writers of the film, and I'm like fan

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Speaker 1: girling over him and I'm just and I'm like, are

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Speaker 1: you Jeremial Harts? And they were like chatting a little bit,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'm actually gonna see it's a lit

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Speaker 1: to night. He's like, I'll see you there and I'm

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Speaker 1: like cool. So, um, this story has no purpose, but no,

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Speaker 1: it's exciting. It's all very exciting, though, it's like any

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Speaker 1: Sundance story. I'm like, yeah, tell me, was the steam

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Speaker 1: room what? So he wasn't in the steam room, So

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Speaker 1: that's what That was the embarrassing part, because I feel

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Speaker 1: like he was looking at me like what are you doing?

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Speaker 1: Like why are you wearing this? What is happening? I

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Speaker 1: don't think he knew what, you know. And then I

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Speaker 1: bumped into him at least two more times in the hotel,

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Speaker 1: and I was wearing the same thing each time, so

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Speaker 1: I was coming from the same room each time. I

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Speaker 1: was like, I feel like he probably thinks I'm stalking him,

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Speaker 1: and I'm just like kind of being a weirdo. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I went to I went to the screening later

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Speaker 1: that night, and of all the films that I saw there,

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Speaker 1: the audience was just like it was so lively. It

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Speaker 1: was just you could feel it. Everyone was just having

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Speaker 1: it was it felt like a ride. It was I

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Speaker 1: don't know, the energy in there was just so big.

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Speaker 1: And you know, the film is complex, it addresses so

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Speaker 1: many different things, but at the same time, it is

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Speaker 1: just like just from beginning to end, you're just like

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Speaker 1: in it. So it's such a romp. It's such a

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Speaker 1: wrong that's that sounds like so much fun. I want

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Speaker 1: to go to Sundance some day. I know, like's if

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Speaker 1: it's it's happening as we record this. I think it's

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Speaker 1: going on right now, but it's like still a digital

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Speaker 1: I was supposed to be there, you know, and then

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Speaker 1: they're like no, They're like it's virtual. So I've been

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Speaker 1: watching Sundance films for the past several days here at home,

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Speaker 1: so basically the same thing as being a steam room

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Speaker 1: and running into JEREMYO. Harris basically Jamie, what about you,

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Speaker 1: what's your experience and general thoughts towards the movie. I

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Speaker 1: was very, very excited to see this movie because when

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Speaker 1: the Twitter, I mean, I just remember being on Twitter.

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Speaker 1: I'm I've been to online my entire life, and I

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Speaker 1: remember being on Twitter the day that the Zola Twitter

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Speaker 1: threat was like happening, and so it was. I made

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Speaker 1: sure I got the date right. It was October, which

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Speaker 1: means I had just moved to l A and I

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Speaker 1: was just so lonely and on my phone a million

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Speaker 1: percent of the time, and so I I forget who

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Speaker 1: it was, but someone like put me onto the fact

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Speaker 1: that this was like a story being told in process,

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Speaker 1: and then a few days later I read the whole

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Speaker 1: story and quickly it was if I'm remembering the sequence

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Speaker 1: of events correctly, it was very soon after and this

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Speaker 1: speaks to it all that James Franco acquired the rights

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Speaker 1: to this movie, and this was a time where we

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Speaker 1: were all still supposed to be like who James Franco?

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Speaker 1: Which we But anyways, I remember the I remember being

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Speaker 1: everyone who read it like very very taken in by

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Speaker 1: the Twitter thread. Um. The discourse around Twitter thread at

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Speaker 1: the time was all over the place. So when I

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Speaker 1: found out that that the movie was actually coming out,

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Speaker 1: I was really excited to see it. And I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's just so much to talk about with

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Speaker 1: with this movie, um, and I'm excited to discuss. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I of the many takeaways of this movie, Taylor Page

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Speaker 1: is so good is one of my main takeaways. What's

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Speaker 1: your history with this movie? I don't think I knew

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Speaker 1: about the Twitter thread until after the movie came out,

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Speaker 1: or like I mean, I saw it. I saw the

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Speaker 1: movie in theaters in summer of when it was like

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Speaker 1: right at the beginning of We're Vaccinated and theaters are

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Speaker 1: opening back up, and well, I die if I go

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Speaker 1: to see Space Jam. I don't know, but I'm willing

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Speaker 1: to take the risk because it's Space Jam. You know,

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Speaker 1: that was my thought process. Anyway, I felt okay about

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Speaker 1: going to the theater, and I had heard good things

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Speaker 1: about Zola, and I think by that point knew that

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Speaker 1: it was based on a Twitter thread, but I hadn't

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Speaker 1: read it, and I just kind of went into the

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Speaker 1: movie not knowing much about it at all and was

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Speaker 1: blown away by the humor of it and the just

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Speaker 1: wild events of what is a mostly true story. And

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Speaker 1: like we've said, it's uh, there's a lot to unpack.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of like commentary the movie is doing

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Speaker 1: that's really interesting and I'm excited to get into it.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I uh, I saw it a little less

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Speaker 1: than a year ago in theaters. I really liked it.

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Speaker 1: Have watched it a couple of times since then. And

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Speaker 1: how is your theater experience? Was it there? It was

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Speaker 1: not very crowded. But the other thing is like I

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Speaker 1: will go to the movies on like at Tuesday at

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Speaker 1: eleven am by myself a lot of the time, where

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Speaker 1: like no one else is there. So it might have

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Speaker 1: been one of those. Because I know the movie didn't

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Speaker 1: make a ton at the box office. I think it

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Speaker 1: had a pretty limited release, and you know, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: a huge blockbuster and it was so crazy because at Sundance.

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Speaker 1: I could be wrong, but I feel like it was,

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Speaker 1: if not the first big cell like it was one

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Speaker 1: of the first films to sell like it had a

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Speaker 1: lot of hype and I don't know, and after I

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Speaker 1: saw it, I was like, Oh, this is gonna be

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Speaker 1: like huge the box office. This is going to be

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Speaker 1: something that like it's going to come out in the

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Speaker 1: summertime and everyone's gonna be there and it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: like sold out theaters. So just the fact that it

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Speaker 1: didn't really get to come out, you know, during the

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Speaker 1: normal time. Yeah, right, it does seem like that. It

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Speaker 1: bumps me out because it, yeah, it seems like it

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Speaker 1: would have been way more of like a big hit

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Speaker 1: in terms of like just people seeing it if it

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Speaker 1: had come out. I don't know, because they know that

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Speaker 1: they delayed the release of it so many times. And

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Speaker 1: then it was like, it feels wild to say now,

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Speaker 1: but there was a time where a summer seemed like

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Speaker 1: a pretty safe bet. And even then, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: feel like it came out and then Delta was that

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Speaker 1: and like it was up against a bunch of other

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Speaker 1: stuff that also had gotten delayed for the past year

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Speaker 1: and a half that were like major, you know, highly

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Speaker 1: anticipated blockbusters. You know, you're like James Bond movie, a

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Speaker 1: couple of Marvel movies, things like that. So it was

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Speaker 1: up against those things, and I think that if it

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Speaker 1: had been released closer to like the end of the year,

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Speaker 1: it would have gotten more like Oscar buzz and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. But yeah, I think that there's just like

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Speaker 1: kind of there were a few things that were like

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Speaker 1: kind of working against it. I don't remember a lot

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Speaker 1: of marketing for the movie either, so I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I do wish it had performed better at the box

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Speaker 1: office though. Anyway, should I get into the recap and

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Speaker 1: then we'll go from there, sure? Sure, and then Jimmila

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Speaker 1: feel free to jump in whenever. Alright, So we opened

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Speaker 1: on two women, Zola played by Taylor Page and Stephanie

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Speaker 1: played by Riley Kyo. Kyo. Yeah, she's uh, because every

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Speaker 1: movie has some sort of weird nepotism attached. She's Elvis nepotism. Whoa, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I did not know that, but like a niece or something,

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Speaker 1: I think granddaughter? Oh my, is that right? I think

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Speaker 1: so it should be wrong, but I just know that

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Speaker 1: Elvis connection to yea, how about that Elvis nepotism. You

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Speaker 1: don't get that. You don't get that every day? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Elvis's granddaughter. Huh wow. Uh So the two of them

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Speaker 1: are putting on makeup, and then Zola breaks the fourth

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Speaker 1: wall and says, I think verbatim of the tweet that

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Speaker 1: also kicked off the Twitter thread, you want to hear

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Speaker 1: a story about how me and this bitch here fell out.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of long, but it's full of suspense. Then

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Speaker 1: we get text on the screen that says, on October

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Speaker 1: at Underscore, Zola our moon tweeted the following in a

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Speaker 1: hundred forty eight tweets, and then it says most of

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Speaker 1: what follows is true. So we flash back to Zola

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Speaker 1: meeting Stephanie at a restaurant where Zolo works as a server.

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Speaker 1: I think canonically, in real life that restaurant was Hooters.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to the place where I did work as

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Speaker 1: a delivery driver. True story. I was a Hooters delivery

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Speaker 1: driver for a summer in State College, Pennsylvania. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much, Thank you. I have a lot of stand

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Speaker 1: up material about it. Um So, Zola meets Stephanie. Stephanie

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Speaker 1: recognizes her because they both dance slash work as strippers.

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Speaker 1: We then see them dancing together, they're hanging out, they're

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Speaker 1: becoming friendly, and the next day Stephanie invites Zola on

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Speaker 1: a trip to Florida so they can dance at some

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Speaker 1: clubs and make a bunch of money. We see Zola

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Speaker 1: say goodbye to her boyfriend, and then she sets off

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Speaker 1: on this trip with Stephanie, as well as Stephanie's roommate,

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Speaker 1: whose name Zola won't learn for a while. He's played

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Speaker 1: by Coleman Domingo, but we'll come to find out he

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Speaker 1: goes by X. We also meet Stephanie's boyfriend, Derek, who

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Speaker 1: is played by cousin Greg Nicholas Braun, who is most

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Speaker 1: famous for Succession, but also he's also famous for sky High.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, a sky High kid, I'm

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Speaker 1: seeing him. He's in sky High as Zak. Good for

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Speaker 1: him and Coleman Domingo has been in a bit jillion things.

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Speaker 1: I feel like he's on a real hot streak right

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Speaker 1: now with him. I'll watch anything with him in it.

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Speaker 1: He's great. So it's a twenty hour drive to Tampa,

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Speaker 1: and on the way we can start to sense that

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Speaker 1: Zola is getting uncomfortable and apprehensive about this trip, mostly

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Speaker 1: because of the people who are on it and their behavior.

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Speaker 1: They arrive in Tampa and drop Derek off at this

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Speaker 1: grungy motel. Then they head to the strip clubs. It's

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Speaker 1: pretty uneventful at first. Then Stephanie takes some photos of

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Speaker 1: the two of them and sends them to X, and

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Speaker 1: it turns out he is Stephanie's pimp, and he uses

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Speaker 1: these photos to set up and add on back Page,

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Speaker 1: which I think is now defunct. But there's it's so

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Speaker 1: funny because it's like canonical to the story that this

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Speaker 1: sixth place uh sometime in but it's just so wild.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that's like five, you know, less

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Speaker 1: than five years after this movie comes out, and so

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Speaker 1: much of the Internet that they're using and referring to

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Speaker 1: is like feels so old and so like using a

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Speaker 1: Facebook status for revenge. I'm like, where were we ever

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Speaker 1: so young? Right? So back Page, as Zola point, it's

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Speaker 1: out as a place where you can buy and sell sex. Um.

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Speaker 1: Zola is not interested in this whole back page ad thing,

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Speaker 1: so she tries to leave, but X threatens her so

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Speaker 1: she has no choice but to stay, and then he

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Speaker 1: takes Zola and Stephanie to a hotel where he has

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Speaker 1: arranged for several men to meet them there for sex.

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Speaker 1: Zola confronts Stephanie saying, you know, no shade and no shame,

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Speaker 1: but this is not what you told me. I was

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Speaker 1: coming here to do. I just thought we would be dancing.

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Speaker 1: And then Stephanie is saying, oh, I didn't know this

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Speaker 1: was going to happen either, but I'm scared and I

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Speaker 1: don't want to be alone. So Zola feels kind of

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Speaker 1: guilted into staying. We will later learn that this is

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Speaker 1: Stephanie being manipulative, but Zola lets the first guy into

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Speaker 1: the room. Stephanie has sex with him while Zola just

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Speaker 1: has to awkwardly by the door and stare at the wall.

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Speaker 1: We get her voice over it says they start fucking.

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Speaker 1: It was gross. My favorite line to the movie. It

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Speaker 1: gets called back to later. It's amazing both times. Yes, Uh,

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Speaker 1: this first guy, that the John. He leaves after paying

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Speaker 1: Stephanie a hundred and fifty dollars, which Zola comments is

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Speaker 1: way too low. She says posty is worth thousands, and

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Speaker 1: she posts a new ad for Stephanie for five a pop. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: Derek is trying to call Stephanie. He can't get a

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Speaker 1: hold of her. He doesn't know what's happening. He's clearly

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Speaker 1: insecure about what she does for a living. He leaves

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Speaker 1: the motel room to find some food and then meets

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Speaker 1: this guy another name we won't know for a while Slash.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if we ever do learn his name.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. That's actually a good question. But he

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Speaker 1: does some magic tricks and kind of befriends Derek. Then

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Speaker 1: back in the hotel room, we get a montage of

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Speaker 1: Stephanie having sex with several men. She makes a lot

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Speaker 1: of money eight thousand dollars, which she has to hand

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Speaker 1: over to X the next day. He takes most of it.

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Speaker 1: He gives Zola some, doesn't give Stephanie any. He's also

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Speaker 1: immediately suspicious of the guy Derek had befriended the night before.

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Speaker 1: X thinks that this guy is going to slit their

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Speaker 1: throats and steal the money they made, so they have

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Speaker 1: to rush out of there and go to another hotel.

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Speaker 1: X's behavior gets even more erratic. He continues to intimidate Zola.

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Speaker 1: He brings in this random woman who's pointing a gun around.

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Speaker 1: We find out, or if you like read the Twitter thread,

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Speaker 1: you learned that she is X's fiance Yeah, or at

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Speaker 1: least like his serious girlfriend. Or something like that. But yeah, there,

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Speaker 1: that's a contextuals I. I reread the thread for to

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Speaker 1: prepare for for this and it holds up. It's classic

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Speaker 1: American literature. I'm serious, truly, I agree. Yeah, so she's

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Speaker 1: pointing a gun around. Then X gives Zola a gun.

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Speaker 1: Zola also finds out that Stephanie has done the same

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Speaker 1: thing before with other women, where she kind of invites

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Speaker 1: them along and it turns out to be set up.

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Speaker 1: Zola is obviously very betrayed and pissed. Derek is also

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Speaker 1: mad at Stephanie for kind of just having this general

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Speaker 1: profession and lifestyle. He tries to quote save her by

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Speaker 1: shaming her on social media. She says, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to be saved. Then they head to this house, another

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Speaker 1: thing that X had apparently arranged for them. A group

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Speaker 1: of men are about to gang bang Stephanie, and then

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Speaker 1: the point of view shifts to Stephanie's point of view

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Speaker 1: and we get her version of the story based on

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Speaker 1: a series of her posts on Reddit from October, a

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Speaker 1: few days after Zola had posted her original Twitter thread.

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Speaker 1: Um she explains how she meets Zola, how it was

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Speaker 1: Zola's idea to take the trip, not hers how Stephanie

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Speaker 1: doesn't know anything about stripping because she's a Christian. She

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Speaker 1: talks about how Zola is jealous, and Stephanie's version of

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Speaker 1: the story is extremely racist toward Zolo specifically, Yeah, which

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Speaker 1: very much comes across in the movie as well. I

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Speaker 1: mean in the way that that whole sequence is like

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Speaker 1: framed and told and totally h Then we cut back

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Speaker 1: to Zola's point of view. She and Stephanie go to

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Speaker 1: another hotel to meet more clients, but it's a setup.

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Speaker 1: The client is the guy who Derek had befriended. The

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Speaker 1: magic trick guy says he's the rival hustler. Yes, so

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Speaker 1: he's also a pimp. He and this other guy c

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Speaker 1: c abduct Stephanie. Zola manages to get away and calls X,

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Speaker 1: who drags Zola back to the hotel along with Derek

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Speaker 1: to get Stephanie back. It's a very intense hostage situation.

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Speaker 1: Guns are being pointed around, but then X finally gets

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Speaker 1: the upper hand and everyone gets out and goes back

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Speaker 1: to X's Tampa house. Uh. Zola is like, I gotta

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Speaker 1: get out of here. Derek begs Stephanie to leave with him.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of implied that she wants to stay and

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Speaker 1: make more money, which is also how the true story

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Speaker 1: goes as well. Um, and then he threatens to suicide

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Speaker 1: and then jumps off the balcony, but he doesn't die

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Speaker 1: because we cut to x Zola, Stephanie, and Derek, who

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Speaker 1: is bleeding and badly injured there in the car, driving

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Speaker 1: presumably back to where they all live, which I think

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Speaker 1: is Detroit. Um, that is the end of the movie.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back

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Speaker 1: to discuss and we're back. Um. Before we get into it,

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to something that I thought was like

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Speaker 1: one of the funnier details or one of the things

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Speaker 1: that I remembered from the Twitter account that got changed

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Speaker 1: for the movie. I'm like, I wonder, why is that

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Speaker 1: when in Zola's Twitter thread when Derek or the Derek

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Speaker 1: his name is Jarrett in real life, same energy. But

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Speaker 1: when when Derek jumps off the balcony and the Twitter thread,

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Speaker 1: like so the true story, he doesn't even hit the

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Speaker 1: ground because his pants get caught on something, so he's

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Speaker 1: just like hanging and then Stephanie and Eggs have to

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Speaker 1: like pluck him off like he's like a little cat

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Speaker 1: stuck in a tree. Right, But then I also read

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Speaker 1: that real life Zola, whose name is Asia King, she

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00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 1: admits to having embellished some of the details of the

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Speaker 1: story and jared that one suicide attempt Apparently, unless I'm

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Speaker 1: misunderstanding this, but the way I read it, he threatened

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Speaker 1: suicide but never attempted it. So that's something that like

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Speaker 1: Asia King embellished to make the story a bit more cinematic.

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Speaker 1: I suppose. I mean it worked on me. I think

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Speaker 1: about that all the time. I'm like, he got caught

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Speaker 1: and he was just hanging there. Wow. Alright, she's an

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Speaker 1: amazing writer. That's the right, right, Like where, yeah, where

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Speaker 1: where to begin? Where do we want to start here?

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Speaker 1: Good question. I will say that I don't know that

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Speaker 1: there's a lot about this movie that I feel a

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00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: little out of my depth with in terms of, like

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Speaker 1: the representation of sex work in general and specifically black

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Speaker 1: stuck workers, which is something that like media has not

402
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 1: represented well or thoughtfully or meaningfully throughout history. From what

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00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: I could tell with the various you know, articles I

404
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 1: read and accounts from sex workers responding to Zola's story,

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Speaker 1: and I found stuff that was mostly a response to

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Speaker 1: the Twitter thread rather than the movie itself. Um. I

407
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: couldn't find a lot about like sex workers responses to

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Speaker 1: Zola the movie, but I did find some stuff from

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Speaker 1: black sex workers who comment on how they felt seen

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Speaker 1: by this Twitter thread. How um For example, UM pulling

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Speaker 1: from a quote in an article from Now Toronto entitled

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Speaker 1: how Zola made space for Black sex workers st worries

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Speaker 1: with a Twitter thread quote according to Ellie, I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure if it's aud a Ker or Ellie aid Ker

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00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: from Maggie's Toronto sex Worker Action Project. Every black exotic

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Speaker 1: dancer remembers the moment they were reading that thread for

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Speaker 1: the first time. Um. And then this is Ellie quoting

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Speaker 1: it spoke to so many workplace dynamics that a lot

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Speaker 1: of us were used to. It was so exciting because

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Speaker 1: it was a narrative told from the perspective of another

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Speaker 1: black sex worker. That's what made it so relatable. End quote.

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Speaker 1: So I saw a lot of responses like this to

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Speaker 1: the story, especially the Twitter thread, and I imagine that

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00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: would extend into the movie as well, because the movie

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00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: seems so faithful to the thread and is a well

426
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: directed movie by j Nisa Bravo. Yeah, so yeah, I

427
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: kind of feel the same, Like after seeing it before

428
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 1: I even wrote my review, which you know, it's it's

429
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: not even a deep dive review because this at the time,

430
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: I was still processing it because I had to write

431
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 1: it like immediately, and my gut reaction initially, like after

432
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: I saw it, I was like, there was a lot

433
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: going on here, but I'm into it. I liked it.

434
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 1: I like the packaging of it, like the presentation of

435
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: it overall. But then again there's there's the whole fact

436
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: of it being about such heavy, heavy topics, you know,

437
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: like sex work and sex trafficking, um, and it's and

438
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: then also just having a black woman on screen, and

439
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: I'm personally I'm I mean, I'm a black woman, and

440
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: I am a little sensitive about the depiction of black

441
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 1: women on screen and just like exploitation and just making

442
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: sure that you know. But as I was reading more

443
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: about it, because Jamie, unlike you, I was not familiar

444
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: with the Twitter thread, and I feel like I can't

445
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say that as a black person. But I

446
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 1: wasn't really heavy. That was like my first semester of

447
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,120
Speaker 1: grad school. I was not really on this. I wasn't

448
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: on Twitter like that, but then understandable. But as I

449
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,919
Speaker 1: was doing research, as I was writing about it, I

450
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 1: became much more comfortable with the film because, like you said, Jamie,

451
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: initially it was going to be in James Franko's hands

452
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: and that is terrifying, and I believe I read I

453
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: don't know if it was really Stone. I've I read

454
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 1: somewhere where Asia was talking about it and just saying

455
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: that things were progressing because there were two different writers

456
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 1: I believe attached to it when James Franko was attached

457
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 1: to it, and they were also white men, and it

458
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: was just changing. The story was not it didn't feel

459
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 1: honest to her. And reading more about her perspective just

460
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: like as a person, as like a human and her

461
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: relationship with Jim Nixa and Jeremio Harris and like and

462
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: also Taylor Um, it made me a lot more comfortable.

463
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: I was like, well, regardless of what the content is like,

464
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 1: whether or not it makes people uncomfortable or it makes

465
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: people just question things, I'm like, if this is her story,

466
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: then I'm here for it. So like I appreciated the

467
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 1: film as just being like this black woman had the

468
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: opportunity to tell her story and you know, and she

469
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: also spoke in some interview about people were questioning her

470
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: at first, like the validity of it, um, but she

471
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: was saying if she was a white woman, she felt

472
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: very confident that people would just believe her. Um. So

473
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: there was like fact checking done like Rolling Stone did. Yeah,

474
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: they did, like an article. Yeah, because that's like part

475
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: of what the story. I think that that's like it's

476
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: based on the Twitter thread and the Rolling Stone, right,

477
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Yeah, So she was like after

478
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: the Rolling Stone piece, She's like, that is when people

479
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: really started to pay attention to it or like engage

480
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: with it in a way like, oh, this is like

481
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: an actual story. Yeah. I read Asia talking about that

482
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: as well. And just the fact that, you know, her

483
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: story was treated with such a hefty dose of skepticism

484
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: until it, like you were saying, Jimmie, like until it

485
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: was fact checked and formally quote unquote endorsed by a

486
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: white journey list at a legacy publication. And then once

487
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: that happened, it's like, oh, okay, well now we can

488
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: we can take this seriously. Which is I feel like

489
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: just so telling Yeah for sure, Which, Yeah, the Rolling

490
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: Stone article. It recounts part of this story that the

491
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 1: movie doesn't cover, where after Zola gets back to Detroit

492
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: with Jerrek and it has told the Stephanie character, whose

493
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: real name is Jessica. She's told Jessica like, I'm never

494
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: talking to you again, lose my number, don't call me

495
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: kind of thing. She gets a call from her a

496
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: few days later. She's calling from a jail in Vegas

497
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: or she's been arrested in Vegas on like human trafficking charges,

498
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: because I mean, it's obvious from the movie that the

499
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: X character who in real life goes by Z, so

500
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: a different letter at the end of the alphabet. This

501
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: this Z guy was like a known trafficker. There's another

502
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: part of the story where like they had basically abducted

503
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: these two young women and we're trafficking them and they

504
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: got arrested and then z Z had a long history

505
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: of doing this and like a few murder yes, which

506
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: makes me kind of like, so, I'm I'm kind of

507
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: like in a in a weird headspace now after having

508
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: read that article and thinking like, oh, this this story

509
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: gets so much darker. It's already quite dark and manages

510
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: a comedic tone, but also appropriately like lets you know

511
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: when a serious thing is happening, and then when it's

512
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: appropriate to laugh it lets you laugh. But the story,

513
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: the dark story does get darker, and now I'm like,

514
00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: oh my, like I kinda even though the guilty for

515
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: like laughing, and yeah, and in in a way that

516
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, is it okay that this movie kind

517
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: of makes, like, I mean arguably sort of makes light

518
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: of sex trafficking? And is that distinction between like sex

519
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: work that sex workers do willingly and sex trafficking that

520
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: people are obviously forced into and doing against their own

521
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: free will. Is that distinction made clear enough in the movie?

522
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: I think so, But I now kind of have different

523
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: questions about Yeah, some aspects of the whole story, I

524
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: agree it is really I mean, especially I think in

525
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 1: particular with the issue of human trafficking, because it is

526
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: such a historically poorly portrayed and dealt with topic in

527
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: movies and still now is like barely discussed. I know

528
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: that I, like personally don't have the knowledge base to

529
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: be able to make any sort of call of like

530
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: how this movie in particular portrayal fairs. But I'll say

531
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: as a viewer, I did find it a little bit confusing,

532
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: where I guess there were moments where I was as

533
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: a viewer as I didn't feel like the lines were

534
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: made completely clear, which in some ways could just be

535
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: another way of putting you in Zola's shoes of like

536
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: Zola slowly realizing that this has crossed from one area

537
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: to another. But there I don't know, Like I I

538
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: struggled with that element of it. And then it's it's

539
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: tricky because when you're dealing with real life people who

540
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: are still I mean, this happened six years ago, very

541
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: much alive, I feel like it gets into this accistential

542
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: question that we kind of can't really answer of like

543
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: can you make omitting something that huge creative choice? You know,

544
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: like it's just it's and I don't have an answer

545
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: to that. I don't know. It definitely also felt really

546
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: conflicted just because of everything you just said about just

547
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: because I enjoyed the film so much and I didn't

548
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: walk away from the film feeling the way that I

549
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:21,959
Speaker 1: would have thought that I would have felt if I

550
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: was told that I was about to walk into a

551
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: theater and see a movie about sex traffic, Well, that's

552
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: like that like has sex trafficking and a lot of violence,

553
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: and just like the topics and the issues that this

554
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: film you know, covers, But I don't know, like, I

555
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: don't know if it does a good job of of

556
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: really separating, you know, sex work from sex trafficking kind

557
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: of like depicting them in totally different ways. But I

558
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: part of me feels like it did an okay job,

559
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: just because, like with the Zolo character, I felt like

560
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: she was very comfortable with who she was in her

561
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: identity as a sex worker from the very beginning, and

562
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: even like when they got to the when I got

563
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: to Florida and they're in the strip club, but just

564
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: like that little scene where she's like who even be

565
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,399
Speaker 1: to day? And she's like dressing up and it's like

566
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: it's her thing, Like she's like shining and she's just

567
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: in it. And then even when she's on stage before

568
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: that guy says she looks like will Be Goldberg, which

569
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: was which is that was? That was so strange? But

570
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: her face was just like everything Taylor Page. She was

571
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: amazing in it. She's so good, she's so good. But

572
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: I just felt like I felt like her identity and

573
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: you know, her ownership of being a sex worker. I

574
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: felt like she felt comfortable in that, and then when

575
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: the sex trafficking came along, like she made it clear,

576
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: like you know, where her boundaries were. But it also

577
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: didn't feel like she was necessarily shaming Stephanie. Yeah right,

578
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 1: which she Steven says in a line of dialogue that

579
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: I think might have been added for the movie. I

580
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: don't know if this was included in the twitter throat

581
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: is something that like, I think it was added. But

582
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,919
Speaker 1: I thought that that was a really smart addition because

583
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: she says, no shade, no shame, do you, but that

584
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: is not what you told me I was coming down

585
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:13,240
Speaker 1: here to do. So like the Zola character is, you know, saying,

586
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: if that's what you want to do, by all means,

587
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: knock yourself out, but like you told me something different

588
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: and now you're betraying my trust and so like. But yeah,

589
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 1: I think the movie does make the clear distinction. But

590
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: I guess my concern is that people, you know, like

591
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: the swerf's out there who already conflate sex work that's

592
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: done willingly and consensually and being a victim of sex trafficking,

593
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: those people might see this movie and like jump to

594
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 1: the wrong conclusions and mistakenly think that this movie proves

595
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: their point because of how close Zola comes to becoming

596
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: a victim of sex trafficking. But I don't know to

597
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 1: your point the question and does remain like because I'm

598
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: not well versed enough in it either to like really

599
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: feel like I can really just stand in the firm

600
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 1: just stance on this. But like it definitely, like I

601
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: said before, I didn't feel as heavy as I feel

602
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: like it could have been or maybe should have been

603
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: to some people's points, you know, because of the topic.

604
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I think the fact that

605
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: it didn't for me, I was like, maybe this is

606
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,879
Speaker 1: the film's way of kind of showing how easy it

607
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: is to kind of get swept into it. I don't know,

608
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: that doesn't even make sense. Yeah, I know that totally.

609
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: It does. Yeah. Actually, that's that's one thing about the

610
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: movie that I was like, Zola is a passive observer

611
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: of the events of the story more so than a

612
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 1: like traditional protagonist of a movie who's like especially like

613
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: a hero's journey type story, who is like making way

614
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: more active choices. Um. I guess that's just like the

615
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: nature of the like things that happened to you in

616
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,879
Speaker 1: real life. Uh. It make for an interesting movie adaptation though,

617
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: because it's like, Okay, well we have this this like

618
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: character who's the protagonist, who is mostly an observer of events.

619
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: She is making active choices here and there. But um,

620
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 1: I found that kind of I don't know, just interesting,

621
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 1: I guess I kind of. I mean, maybe I'm like

622
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 1: reaching here, but I kind of liked I mean, I

623
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: feel like the movie puts you in, like, even though

624
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, she's not like super active in the

625
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: traditional sense of like I'm doing this and I'm doing this,

626
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: I feel like Janik's Bravo did a really good job

627
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: of making the act of observing feel active, because it's

628
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 1: like Zola has to be so like watching everyone's every

629
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 1: move to the point where it's obviously very very draining

630
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 1: in order to like survive the experience. So even though

631
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 1: it's like it didn't feel like I mean, obviously it's

632
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 1: like this movie is also just following a Twitter thread

633
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: of someone recounting observing people. But I felt like she

634
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: did a really good of putting you in, Like it's

635
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: not that she's not being active, because like it's because

636
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: she feels like she can't and like has to be

637
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: so careful about what she chooses to do, not do,

638
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 1: say and not saying stuff like that. And I don't know,

639
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: I thought the movie did a good job of like

640
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: putting you in that headspace. Definitely, it definitely did that

641
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: for me too. And and also just like I don't know,

642
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 1: like her, like how quiet she was and and just

643
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: the observing I think that was kind of like her superpower.

644
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 1: And I think that's kind of how she made it

645
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 1: out alive or how she was able to kind of

646
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 1: re established or just like just get her own power

647
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 1: or get like get her own authority throughout the story,

648
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: because it felt like the story was it was kind

649
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: of going off the rails and then it was, but

650
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: it was like, but she's still felt so firm in

651
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: her power as like a character or as a person.

652
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: So I think I think that silence and I think

653
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: that the observing of everything kind of just like helped

654
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: her navigate it. But it also just felt it also

655
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: felt really telling, just like or just interesting to watch

656
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: her just like a black woman on screen, just like

657
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 1: navigating all of this stuff and just like she's experiencing

658
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: so much violence, Like even the like the non physical violence,

659
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 1: just like just the whole experience, the chaos of it all,

660
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,320
Speaker 1: and and just like it's just so much violence just

661
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 1: coming at her and she's just like internalizing it and

662
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 1: just like looking at it. And that just felt very

663
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: relatable to me, um and just like for like my

664
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 1: existence or even the existence of like other black women.

665
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: So that was really interesting to me, just like watching

666
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: how she just kind of dealt with all of that

667
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 1: and then found wait, found a way to like navigate

668
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: a space. And then hearing Asia talk about it, she

669
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,479
Speaker 1: just talks like the Twitter threat, she like says it.

670
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,760
Speaker 1: It was her like the writing of it all, because

671
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 1: I mean it's comedic in the Twitter thread as well,

672
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: but it's like but the writing of it all was

673
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,760
Speaker 1: like healing for her. It was like it was traumatizing

674
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: when she you know, it was a trauma, like it's

675
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: a it's a funny and you know at certain points,

676
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: but it was at its heart like a trauma. And

677
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: like that was how she processed it, I think, turning

678
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: it into something that I guess we could all like

679
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: get on board with. But also sometimes like the scariest

680
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: things when when you're out of it, they're like sometimes

681
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: it can be kind of funny. I mean, yeah, that's

682
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: like humorous coping mechanism of like yeah right, yeah, yeah,

683
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 1: you like laugh so that you don't cry every day

684
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: for the rest of your life kind of thing. Yeah,

685
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: So I guess it's like the tone that I was

686
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: like a little like, is this kind of is this

687
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: tone sort of like mean that it's maybe making light

688
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: of this scary and dangerous situation where again, yeah, she's

689
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: she's often the victim of violence. Is that making light

690
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: of all this? But it is maintaining the same tone

691
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: as the original Twitter thread, So they're adapting her. Yeah,

692
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: since that's how like Zola chose to present this story, then, like,

693
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,240
Speaker 1: you know, who am I to say anything about tone

694
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: and a person's healing process. I can totally get someone

695
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: who does. Like, whenever someone tells me they've seen it,

696
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: I'm like, so what do you think? What? Like I

697
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: can if someone came to me and said, I feel

698
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: like it was like it minimizes it and it wasn't

699
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 1: Like I could totally understand how someone could have that

700
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,879
Speaker 1: experience seeing it. So there's that because you know, part

701
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: of me like I get that. But yeah, like you said,

702
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: for me. It was more like, well, if this is

703
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 1: her story and this is how she presented it, and

704
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: she and like she's on board with how it was told,

705
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I will take it as it is.

706
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: But like, but then there's a question of amplifying it,

707
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 1: Like you said, like, is it is it problematic to

708
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: amplify a story if it is something indeed that you

709
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,359
Speaker 1: know minimizes it. But I don't know, it's so hard.

710
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: It's like it's it almost feels like, well, it's like, well,

711
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: of course one movie couldn't tackle all of that, but

712
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 1: it is like it's an interesting discussion. I don't know.

713
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 1: I feel like the way that I was able to too,

714
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 1: I still don't like love the choices, and I very

715
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: much understand the criticism. And it's like I feel like,

716
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: in order to engage with the movie on its terms,

717
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: you have to view it as like this is adapting

718
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: the Twitter threat, like including apparently the embellishments that Asia

719
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: King made that I didn't I thought this guy was

720
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: hanging off the side of a building from his pants. Uh,

721
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: Like nope, And of course the writers of the movie

722
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 1: would have known that, but they choose to include it anyways,

723
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: because it's they're adapting her story and the tone of

724
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: how she told it, in the way that she told it,

725
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: and in that way, I feel like it's successful. But

726
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: I also very much see how it's like and again

727
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 1: it's like this isn't on anyone involved in this movie,

728
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 1: but just because it's like the topic of human trafficking

729
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 1: is so huge and so poorly represented in movies, I

730
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: feel like it always becomes like triple scrutinized when anyone

731
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: even attempts to talk about it, because it's like, I'm

732
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 1: I think about the sex trafficking and human trafficking story

733
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: that I think I first saw in movie theaters unfortunately

734
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: would have been like taken. That's what I was going

735
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: to say, and that I haven't analyzed it from that perspective.

736
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: And again I'm not an expert, but like not good,

737
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,399
Speaker 1: safe to say, not useful, And I feel like there's

738
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: so many stories about human trafficking that you know, it's

739
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: like some guy, some action hero bus in and resolves

740
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 1: human trafficking and the way that bodies are shot is

741
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: very exploitative and very trauma porn essentially, so the hero

742
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 1: can come in and solve this societal ill in one scene.

743
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,800
Speaker 1: So I mean, I think that it is very bold

744
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 1: for a movie to even take on this topic because

745
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: it's so loaded. But I also like, yeah, obviously I

746
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:54,919
Speaker 1: don't think it was like handled perfectly, but I don't

747
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 1: know what that would look like. I don't know, say,

748
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: what could they do to make it right? Like what

749
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 1: could have done right exactly? So I'm just like, and

750
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: I know what would have been horrible is James Franco's

751
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: version of the We know it wouldn't work, and we

752
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 1: have seen many examples of what doesn't work. I don't know.

753
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 1: I mean, if we have any listeners who have more

754
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: knowledge on this topic than we do, or maybe could

755
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: direct us to movies that that you feel has handled

756
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 1: the subject of human trafficking relatively well, I would be

757
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,399
Speaker 1: very interested to hear. I can't imagine that there will

758
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: be for me, like a single film that will address it.

759
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: Like the more I read on it, I just can't.

760
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,399
Speaker 1: I can't picture one film or one piece of just

761
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: work or artwork I can really depict it, and it's

762
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,439
Speaker 1: in all of its complexities, you know, So I think,

763
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: I don't know. I kind of take it. I take

764
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,399
Speaker 1: Zola as being just a contribution to the conversation, just

765
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: like one perspective and one specific experience. I think the

766
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 1: only like for me because it again, like to go

767
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 1: back to what I said, I do feel like it

768
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 1: just kind of shows how easily you can kind of

769
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 1: just like tread that line and just the next thing,

770
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 1: you know, it like happens. And also just I don't

771
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,280
Speaker 1: know because when I, like, when I first learned about

772
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: you know, sex trafficking and human trafficking, it seems so big, right,

773
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: like it's going to be a big operation, Like you're

774
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: gonna know what's happening when it's happening, you know, And

775
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: then this movie it kind of just I didn't know

776
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 1: what was happening until it started, like you know, so

777
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: it almost presents it in a way that and this

778
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: is gonna I'm gonna try to phrase this in a

779
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: way that isn't It almost makes human trafficking accessible, and

780
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: by that I mean like it like makes it so

781
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: that you can understand that this is a thing that

782
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: can happen on a very small scale where like basically

783
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 1: two people are orchestrating a sex trafficking operation. There are

784
00:45:55,440 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: obviously other examples of like human trafficking where away bigger thing.

785
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: But I think it it just sort of sheds a

786
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 1: light on yeah, this this is sometimes how this goes

787
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,359
Speaker 1: down in a way that was like kind of eye

788
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: opening for me, because yeah, when I think of like,

789
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,439
Speaker 1: because of the way it's represented in media, I think

790
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: of sex trafficking is like, yeah, someone gets abducted when

791
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 1: they're on vacation in Europe and then Liam Neeson has

792
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 1: to find a movie has to find this enormous like

793
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: outfit of criminals. There are hundreds of them who were

794
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: just going on the phone and like, yeah, I mean

795
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 1: I think going back to what you were just saying, Jamila,

796
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 1: I feel like there is such a wide variety of

797
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: of how this can take place, and Zola is showing

798
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 1: you one way that it can take place. And I

799
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 1: mean and literally did in the case of this story,

800
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 1: which I do, I do still wonder. I don't know.

801
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: I mean, the decision to withhold what ends up happening,

802
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,760
Speaker 1: I don't I just don't know. I agree, I agree,

803
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,399
Speaker 1: I think the ending it definitely falls flat like that.

804
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: That was definitely a missed opportunity and I think that

805
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 1: definitely could have been something that that kind of just

806
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 1: tied it together in a way that acknowledged the severity

807
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 1: of what happened. I think that may have been something

808
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 1: that would have made because like when I walked away

809
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 1: from the film, like I really enjoyed this film, but

810
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 1: there's something I don't know, And then I think that

811
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: acknowledgement and that like really just addressing like what really

812
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 1: happens next, and like who these people were and like

813
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: how bad it was. Like I think that would have helped, right,

814
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:44,280
Speaker 1: because the movie kind of lets the Stephanie character slash

815
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:48,399
Speaker 1: real life person Jessica off the hook for being very

816
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 1: culpable for being part of this sex trafficking operation in

817
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 1: a way that she should be like should be held

818
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: more accountable by the movie. I think I just kind

819
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 1: of I also think that it's like knowing that information

820
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: also serves Zola. I know that the movie is very

821
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 1: focused on, like obviously Zola, it is the name of

822
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 1: the movie, but I think it also like serves Zola's

823
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 1: character to like that heightens this like knowing what happens

824
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 1: with Ze and Jessica X and Stephanie whatever and the

825
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: real life consequences, like that heightens the entire story that

826
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 1: happened to Zola because it very easily could have been her. Like,

827
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,919
Speaker 1: I feel like it's all very very relevant. And also

828
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:37,799
Speaker 1: it's like you can address that in a couple of

829
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: I don't know, like title cards at the end of

830
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: the movie of like those classic like here's what happened

831
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 1: to this character, here's what Like I feel like that

832
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: happens at the end of most true story movies. I

833
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: wonder if that was ever I'll just be curious enough

834
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 1: that was like included in any drafts or like what

835
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: conversation led to that not being included? Yeah, because if

836
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: you don't google, it literally just looks like they get

837
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: away right right, and like everyone just gets away, and

838
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 1: it's just like I don't know, I'm like, so it

839
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 1: did this happen? You know? When the reality is like

840
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: a week later things have changed, so and it's like

841
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 1: and it also is like, so Zola got out of

842
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 1: this situation truly in like the nick of time. Like

843
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 1: it's just so, I don't know. There's a lot of

844
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: other stuff to talk about with this movie, but I'm uh,

845
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: and it's all it's all challenging. Let's take a quick

846
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,720
Speaker 1: break and then come back to talk about those things.

847
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about how the movie provides commentary

848
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 1: on race, Like you have the character of Stephanie and

849
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 1: her boyfriend, who are both white, appropriating elements of Black

850
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: culture in the language they use, they're kind of style hairstyles,

851
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 1: and the way they talk, the way they talk, and

852
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: then direct a bunch of like racist microaggressions or macro

853
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:11,239
Speaker 1: aggressions at Zola. And I feel like the movies like

854
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 1: providing this effective commentary on you know, how white people

855
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: like Stephanie can appropriate blackness when it's convenient for them,

856
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: which they can then exploit to kind of give them

857
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: more perceived coolness quote unquote or like perceived credibility, but

858
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: then obviously still benefit from all the privilege that being

859
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:36,799
Speaker 1: white affords them, right and fall back on that. I mean,

860
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:40,880
Speaker 1: it's like that sequence with like Jessica's story or Stephanie's

861
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: story perfectly illustrates her, you know, like we've seen her

862
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 1: appropriating Black culture and like observing Zola so carefully in

863
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 1: this creepy way for the whole movie. And then the

864
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 1: second she needs to play the part of like innocent

865
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 1: white girl of like I'm a Christian, I don't know

866
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 1: what huh she plays that part to a t and

867
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 1: like is very like it's just very clear what she's doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

868
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: it's a lot. Um the black scent. That was definitely

869
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 1: a lot to get past in the beginning. And but yeah,

870
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 1: throughout the film just watching her just appropriate black culture

871
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: and misappropriated I don't know, it was a lot. But

872
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 1: it was also like and it was uncomfortable. It's like

873
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 1: so uncomfortable, but it's also just like unfortunate because it's

874
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 1: like still realistic because there are definitely people like that. Um,

875
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: maybe not to that extreme, but definitely that's definitely a thing.

876
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:41,759
Speaker 1: And then but in this at the same time, like

877
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 1: just being racist, it's just there's that. And then there's

878
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 1: like the scene in the car where she's she turns

879
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:53,879
Speaker 1: around and she's talking to she's telling Zola some story

880
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 1: about some other neural just being so it's it's just

881
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:00,759
Speaker 1: very racist. And then just Zola's just like looking at her.

882
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the moments where Zola

883
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, like I made a mistake coming on

884
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:13,319
Speaker 1: this trip and Asia, she said Jessica Um and her

885
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: boyfriend in real life, she said, they were like using

886
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: the N word, the whole time. And that's definitely the

887
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 1: energy that you get from just the film, even though

888
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:21,839
Speaker 1: they left it out of the film, I don't know,

889
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 1: I haven't really unpacked it because it's just very unfortunately,

890
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 1: just feels very familiar, just like I've definitely I've I've

891
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: witnessed this this type of energy in real life. Um

892
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 1: and just like you know, just I don't know, I

893
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm curious your thoughts on this. I was

894
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:45,240
Speaker 1: surprised throughout the whole movie because Stephanie never drops this.

895
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 1: This is like how she talks and like how she

896
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: behaves throughout the whole movie. I expected at a certain

897
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:55,880
Speaker 1: point for Zola to like start calling her out for

898
00:52:56,040 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: it or mention it or something. It never happens, and

899
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: I'm I'm curious, is to your thoughts and like, is

900
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 1: that just like another kind of like mechanism the Zola

901
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: and other black people. One of those things is like

902
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:15,439
Speaker 1: a choose your battles kind of thing where like it's

903
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 1: not worth it or she's not worth it, or you know,

904
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 1: something like that or I don't know, I just I

905
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 1: was surprised that you never see that character who seems

906
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: quite good at advocating for herself and like understanding kind

907
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:32,320
Speaker 1: of boundaries and things like that. Why she never calls

908
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 1: the Stephanie character out for doing that. I mean, it

909
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 1: made sense to me just because I've definitely met white

910
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:44,439
Speaker 1: people like that. And while I will have so many

911
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 1: thoughts in my head and I will talk to all

912
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 1: of my black friends about it because it's just like,

913
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: what is what is happening here, I won't say anything

914
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 1: to them because I mean, I do think it's kind

915
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 1: of like a pick your battles, but it's also just

916
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 1: like sometimes I'm like, maybe this person really thinks this

917
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 1: is who they are, and I don't have the energy

918
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: to sit here and to just like let them know

919
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 1: because also like if if that is really like the

920
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 1: persona that you're taking on unnecessarily, I feel like you

921
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 1: might be someone who is not who is not going

922
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: to be receptive to like a conversation on like why

923
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 1: you're doing this right true and like and like who

924
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 1: you because it's just I just can't imagine like like

925
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 1: that character, I can't imagine she would have been any

926
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 1: kind of receptive to it. I feel like she would

927
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,400
Speaker 1: have kind of just duck her heels in even further

928
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 1: and just like gone harder to prove, like, no, this

929
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 1: is who I am. It just seems it seems realistic

930
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 1: to me because I can't imagine saying anything until a

931
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,240
Speaker 1: white person who's like that, I'd just be like, okay, okay,

932
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: like I know that I need to avoid you moving forward. Yeah, yeah,

933
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 1: you might not be someone that I can um trust.

934
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 1: But but Zela, again, you know, I forget this sometimes

935
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: that she was nineteen when it happened, because sometimes some

936
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 1: people were just like why would you go I'm like,

937
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 1: what are you doing? Why would you go on this

938
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 1: trip with this? But then it's like she's nineteen. Nineteen

939
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 1: year olds do a lot of things. Yeah, they do

940
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 1: a lot of things, and it's like you might make

941
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 1: some money and you might just have it's a road trip,

942
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 1: you know. I don't know. On the surface, maybe it

943
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 1: sounded like it could have been like an adventure and

944
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 1: when you're nineteen is all you want, right. I mean,

945
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:23,360
Speaker 1: I'm thirty five and I make horrible choices frequently. So

946
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 1: she contextualizes it in the Twitter thread by saying, like

947
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:30,240
Speaker 1: I had gone down to Florida to do something similar

948
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:33,359
Speaker 1: before and made fifteen thousand dollars and so it's like

949
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:36,719
Speaker 1: I understand why she would like accept the invitation and

950
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 1: also why it would have been clear to her. I mean,

951
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 1: and it was clear to her very early on that

952
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,240
Speaker 1: like this was not going to be the fifteen thousand

953
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 1: dollar trip she was sort of it was alluded to

954
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:51,320
Speaker 1: it maybe being I thought it was interesting that Janniksa

955
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 1: Bravo was asked about basically like building the Stephanie character

956
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:01,320
Speaker 1: and Riley Kio. I mean it it's interesting reading about

957
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 1: how the actors approached their parts differently, because Asia King

958
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 1: and Taylor Paige spoke quite a bit like in the

959
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:15,720
Speaker 1: forming the movies, Zola Riley Kyo did not speak to Jessica.

960
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 1: That was not a part of the approach, but it

961
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 1: sounded like um Jenneck, So Bravo and Riley Kio had

962
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:26,280
Speaker 1: discussions about like, well, how are we going to present

963
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:28,919
Speaker 1: this character? How is she going to talk? Like how

964
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 1: I basically it sounded like a conversation of like how

965
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 1: far into this are we going to go? And it

966
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:38,800
Speaker 1: sounds like Asia King has said to multiple press outlets

967
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 1: like that's how Jessica talked, and like that's just reflective

968
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 1: of the experience. And I think that that should be

969
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 1: reflected in the movie, and Jenneck so Bravo agreed on

970
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 1: that point. And I do think. I mean, it's like

971
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,319
Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, it's it's so ugly and

972
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 1: cringe e and painful to watch, and it's like, I'm

973
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:03,880
Speaker 1: I don't know. I it seems like it was the

974
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:06,280
Speaker 1: right creative choice for the movie to do that, because

975
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:11,720
Speaker 1: it's just an early indicator of like who this character is. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

976
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 1: I agree. And I also I read all that too

977
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 1: about you know, well Asia saying that that is how

978
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 1: the character spoke, but honestly, even if she didn't say that,

979
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 1: that's exactly how I would picture this character. Um. And

980
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 1: then I also, you know, Jannisa, she like she really

981
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 1: wanted to go all the way and like she got

982
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 1: I believe, like a dialect coach or everything varilly like

983
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 1: it was, and then she was like, now go deeper,

984
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: and it was cringe e. But it just like I

985
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 1: can't picture this character any other way, even just from

986
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 1: reading it, and just like this is this is the

987
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 1: kind of this is the kind of white woman that

988
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: I would expect to have in this situation. Um. Yeah,

989
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 1: It's like it does make It's like it's supposed to

990
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 1: be cringe e. It's not like I mean because I

991
00:57:57,880 --> 00:57:59,919
Speaker 1: feel like that the last time we've had a calm

992
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 1: reversation about about black scent in movie, it was about Aquafina,

993
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 1: where it was like her characters using it in it

994
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,919
Speaker 1: like a completely not self aware way in a way

995
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 1: that was extremely misappropriative and exploitative and like stealing an

996
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 1: offensive stereotype of black culture in order to like lift

997
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 1: yourself up. And that's not what's happening here, especially because

998
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 1: of who is behind the camera in this movie right exactly,

999
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 1: and who's telling the story, who's telling the exactly. What

1000
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 1: if James Franco would have kept this film and it

1001
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 1: would have been like that would have been not at lant,

1002
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 1: that would math have landed well for a lot of us,

1003
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 1: right exactly. It reminds me of like every time like

1004
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 1: Quentin Tarantino puts himself in his movie and then he's

1005
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,479
Speaker 1: like saying the N word and we're just like, why

1006
00:58:53,520 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 1: did what? I can't? I can't, I can't. Yeah, at

1007
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 1: least he doesn't seem to do it anymore. I guess,

1008
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 1: well I'm not allowed to do it. Yeah, It's like

1009
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:09,800
Speaker 1: check the date of when you're listening to this, give

1010
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 1: a time, not that you said that we're going to

1011
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 1: see a trailer in a month, so something. I'm sorry everybody.

1012
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 1: He said his name three times and now he's uncanceled.

1013
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 1: But truly what a horrible person. No, but yeah, like totally.

1014
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 1: I like, it's totally different from the ho Aquathina thing,

1015
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 1: and it's I think that's the biggest part of Zola

1016
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:37,479
Speaker 1: for me, because again, going into it, I wasn't super

1017
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 1: familiar with the Twitter threat. I skimmed a few things

1018
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:42,240
Speaker 1: before I walked in there because I was like preparing

1019
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:44,720
Speaker 1: in my mind to write the article, and I learned

1020
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 1: more about the story, so I was I was definitely

1021
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 1: cautious and nervous, and then when Stephanie began speaking, I

1022
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 1: was like, oh, for the whole week I had to

1023
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 1: sit through this. But but just like holding onto the

1024
00:59:56,480 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 1: fact that Jannisa jeremyo Hairs co writer, like there are

1025
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 1: black people who were behind the telling of the story

1026
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 1: and the presentation of it, and also like Asia and

1027
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 1: just the fact that she still had it seemed like

1028
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:11,440
Speaker 1: she still had a lot of control over the narrative.

1029
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 1: I don't know. That made me feel like more comfortable

1030
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 1: with like what was happening. I mean, but it's still

1031
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 1: like it sucked, but it just but it also felt authentic.

1032
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 1: There there are a lot of there are a lot

1033
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 1: of white people out there who who speople with glass

1034
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 1: or like non black people in general. Like you said,

1035
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 1: like and it it's always cringe e for sure. This

1036
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 1: is maybe a good point to mention. Yeah, like because

1037
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 1: we've made a lot of reference to the like key

1038
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:42,480
Speaker 1: creatives in this movie, but just to like shout everybody out. Um.

1039
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:48,240
Speaker 1: So it's directed by Jennie Bravo, screenplays by Jenisa and

1040
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 1: Jeremy oh' harris. Um. But there's also I mean it's

1041
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:56,120
Speaker 1: mostly women and people of color who are making the

1042
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 1: movie at the highest level, top to bottom. Um. Obviously

1043
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:03,920
Speaker 1: Asia is involved. Dave Franco is still credited as a producer,

1044
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 1: which I have to imagine is some like leftover Franco

1045
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 1: related I'll talk about it. Um. But um, we have

1046
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 1: a woman as the primary cinematographer, Ari Wegner, who also

1047
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 1: just did the Power of the Dog. We have a

1048
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 1: um my women and a black woman editing the movie,

1049
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 1: Joy McMillan, who had previously done Moonlight. Um, and had

1050
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:35,040
Speaker 1: worked on Jennis's first feature Lemon, that came out in

1051
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 1: also edited If Beale Street could talk, She's like huge, Yeah,

1052
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 1: she's done so much. And then also the music was

1053
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 1: written by Micah Levy, who I believe is non binary. Yeah. Yeah,

1054
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 1: so so it is a very diverse team that's making

1055
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 1: this movie. And I feel like, yeah, I mean it's again,

1056
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:01,439
Speaker 1: it's like I hate that we have to keep bringing

1057
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 1: up what the James Franco iteration of this story would

1058
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:07,120
Speaker 1: have been, but it's like it would have been extremely

1059
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 1: different if there were different creatives at the helm of

1060
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:14,920
Speaker 1: this story. And I really like how everything I've read

1061
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:18,439
Speaker 1: about the production of this movie sounds like Asia King

1062
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:21,760
Speaker 1: was like meaningfully involved in every step of the way

1063
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 1: and sort of like giving her blessing as things were

1064
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 1: developing to be like, no, this is reflective of like

1065
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:29,960
Speaker 1: the story that I want to tell, and like giving

1066
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 1: her that agency I feel like is rare for any

1067
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,320
Speaker 1: person who's whose writing is being adapted or whose story

1068
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 1: is being told, But in particular a black woman describing

1069
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 1: a story of sex work like that, I feel like

1070
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:49,000
Speaker 1: that's never That's something that just doesn't happen in movies.

1071
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:52,840
Speaker 1: At all. So it's cool to to see for sure.

1072
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 1: I love that call out, your call out of all

1073
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 1: of the people who you know, were in charge of

1074
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 1: bringing this film to was you know, from the top level,

1075
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:04,960
Speaker 1: um and just like being very or just pointing out

1076
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 1: the fact that there were so many women, women of color,

1077
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 1: people of color, non non binary people. I think that's

1078
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:14,680
Speaker 1: why because this film also, like if you think about

1079
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 1: how it was visually, it could have been a lot

1080
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:25,600
Speaker 1: more chaotic and exploited, like like I don't recall seeing

1081
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 1: very many new naked women. I mean you know, yeah,

1082
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:32,360
Speaker 1: or just like in a way about yeah, yeah, I

1083
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:37,120
Speaker 1: think we don't see female nudity. We see full frontal

1084
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:42,760
Speaker 1: male nudity. Boy do we? Uh, I've got to I've

1085
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:45,600
Speaker 1: got a quote from Janet's Bravo here about her like

1086
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 1: approach to the visual because I was curious about that

1087
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:51,360
Speaker 1: because it was like, I don't know, midway through the movie,

1088
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, that is of course, like if

1089
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:57,680
Speaker 1: you didn't know that a woman wasn't making this movie

1090
01:03:57,720 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 1: going into it, I feel like that is the key

1091
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 1: tell is like that she doesn't jump to exploit women's

1092
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 1: bodies unfortunately, I mean, and that's not. You know, there

1093
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 1: are some mail filmmakers that don't, but statistically they do.

1094
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:14,960
Speaker 1: Um So, here's what jenneks So Bravo said about specifically

1095
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 1: working on like the framing with her cinematographer Ari Wagner.

1096
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 1: She says, um quote, I wanted things to feel consensual.

1097
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 1: I talked with Ari, who shot the film, and Katie,

1098
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 1: the production designer, about what consent looks and feels like

1099
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 1: in American films. Sometimes nudity on screen doesn't feel consensual.

1100
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 1: I was thinking about some Helmet Newton photographs and why

1101
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 1: they work for me. They're often so naughty and so sexual,

1102
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 1: but it feels like there is this consent between the

1103
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 1: photographer and the model, and the model feels in control

1104
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 1: of the narrative even though she is not behind the lens.

1105
01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:49,960
Speaker 1: I wanted to find that the women felt taken care

1106
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:53,080
Speaker 1: of and exposing the men. It wasn't a ha, I

1107
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:55,560
Speaker 1: get to do it, or I'm a woman and this

1108
01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:58,480
Speaker 1: is a woman's gaze. There was maybe some politics there,

1109
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:01,040
Speaker 1: but it was really about being so much inside what

1110
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 1: the women who were being bought were seeing unquote, which

1111
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 1: I feel like comes across pretty clearly in the visual

1112
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:12,160
Speaker 1: language of the movie. I agree. I also love this

1113
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 1: kind of ties back to what we were talking about

1114
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:20,640
Speaker 1: a little earlier. Just those mirror scenes. It's so Alice

1115
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:24,000
Speaker 1: in wonderlandy to need to like it's such a cool

1116
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 1: setup for a shot, but just even how she uses

1117
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:32,600
Speaker 1: those shots where there's that scene you were talking about earlier, Jamila,

1118
01:05:32,680 --> 01:05:35,240
Speaker 1: where Zola is looking at herself and all these different

1119
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:37,680
Speaker 1: outfits and like who are you going to be today? Zola?

1120
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 1: Like that is such a cool way of showing like

1121
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:44,000
Speaker 1: how this woman views herself in the different and also

1122
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 1: just like a cool I feel like it's I guess

1123
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 1: that's technically like a dress up montage in the movie,

1124
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:54,880
Speaker 1: but it's just like telling you how different clothes make

1125
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:57,960
Speaker 1: her feel, and like that's a I just loved it.

1126
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:00,920
Speaker 1: And then in the mirror scenes where Stephanie's present, I

1127
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 1: feel like it's used in a totally different way where

1128
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 1: it's like Zola is able to see herself in the mirror,

1129
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 1: Stephanie doesn't seem to really see herself. She's she's looking

1130
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:14,520
Speaker 1: at Zola because she's like there's so much of Zola's

1131
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:19,280
Speaker 1: behavior that Stephanie is trying to imitate and take on

1132
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 1: as her own and I just I don't know if

1133
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 1: those scenes were I thought were so well done and interesting,

1134
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 1: no male gaze cinematography here, some gnarly dick shots m

1135
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:37,440
Speaker 1: in a way that I'm also like, is that shamy

1136
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 1: of different penis types? Because a lot of them, like

1137
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:43,560
Speaker 1: you get like I remember the one in particular that's

1138
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:47,040
Speaker 1: like a very large penis. I remember that getting a

1139
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:50,240
Speaker 1: big laugh in the theater and then they had a

1140
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 1: heart on it got a like yes, which, um, what

1141
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:59,920
Speaker 1: about people with small penises and those are nice to

1142
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:04,160
Speaker 1: you anyway? Yeah, I mean it's like I think that's

1143
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 1: definitely a discussion, but it's like, I don't know, very

1144
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:09,920
Speaker 1: low in this movie, like on the list of priorities

1145
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:13,240
Speaker 1: I have to talk about with this movie, right Ridge, Right, Yeah.

1146
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 1: And I thought it's interesting that it's like I feel

1147
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:17,680
Speaker 1: like people are so quick to apply that like it's

1148
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:21,120
Speaker 1: the female gays when I don't know, I like that

1149
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:23,800
Speaker 1: Jennick's a Bravo and she's like pretty consistently done this

1150
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 1: throughout her career kind of like pushes back against the

1151
01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:30,240
Speaker 1: very the more obvious interpretations of her own work, and

1152
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:32,560
Speaker 1: it's like, no, here's where I was coming from this

1153
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:34,760
Speaker 1: is what I was thinking about, and like, you know,

1154
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:39,720
Speaker 1: don't jump to the easiest interpretation of my work, please. Yeah. Also,

1155
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:42,479
Speaker 1: like I think red or heard her say something about

1156
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:45,440
Speaker 1: like because typically when it comes to sex work on screen,

1157
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:48,520
Speaker 1: it's it's I mean, the women's bodies who you know,

1158
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:51,480
Speaker 1: are the ones that are just all out there. But

1159
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 1: then like she wanted to kind of just shine a

1160
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:56,480
Speaker 1: light on the men who are involved with it because

1161
01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:58,400
Speaker 1: I feel like so many times we'll see like a

1162
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 1: whole scene like context where and I'll just be like

1163
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 1: the woman, the woman, the woman, the guy will kind

1164
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 1: of have like it's like he's not even present in

1165
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:07,240
Speaker 1: what's happening. So it's kind of like I feel like

1166
01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 1: her way of really including them in the conversation and

1167
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 1: like saying no, like no, the act of what's happening here,

1168
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:16,760
Speaker 1: whatever the situation. Maybe what's happening here is there's a

1169
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:19,120
Speaker 1: man who's actively involved in it. He's not just like

1170
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:24,479
Speaker 1: a passing figure and I owe another um. And again

1171
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 1: it's like where I can't speak on this with any

1172
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 1: sort of authority, but something that worked for me in

1173
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 1: watching this movie was the subtle and not subtle ways

1174
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 1: that the story acknowledges the stigma that comes with being

1175
01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:42,040
Speaker 1: a sex worker. Um, and that kind of spans I mean,

1176
01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:46,200
Speaker 1: the two examples I'm thinking of are in Stephanie's case,

1177
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:50,559
Speaker 1: when Derek, I mean, like Stephanie is awful, no doubt

1178
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:53,960
Speaker 1: about it. But when when Derek basically outs her as

1179
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:57,519
Speaker 1: a sex worker to her entire family, the response that

1180
01:08:57,520 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 1: that prompts from her, I feel like, kind of addresses

1181
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:03,960
Speaker 1: the stigma that is applied to her by her own

1182
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:08,800
Speaker 1: family by knowing how she's supporting herself even though she

1183
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:12,759
Speaker 1: is a terrible person. That that was like an interesting

1184
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:17,120
Speaker 1: in text way of addressing that. And then in Zola's case, Um,

1185
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:20,240
Speaker 1: it's I feel like, even more subtle, but it made

1186
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:25,040
Speaker 1: me so frustrated and sad for her. Where there's two

1187
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:28,920
Speaker 1: times where people in her life, like Zola has a

1188
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:31,800
Speaker 1: support system, she has people checking in with her from

1189
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 1: her life. But my interpretation, and let me know if

1190
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:40,160
Speaker 1: I'm off here, but was that she didn't I mean,

1191
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:43,479
Speaker 1: she talked to her boyfriend and her mom briefly throughout

1192
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:46,479
Speaker 1: this trip, and it just seems like she was not

1193
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:48,719
Speaker 1: in a place with either of them where she felt

1194
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:53,800
Speaker 1: comfortable being like, hey, I'm in danger and that like

1195
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:56,720
Speaker 1: I don't know. I it's not something I can like

1196
01:09:57,000 --> 01:10:00,080
Speaker 1: completely relate with. But it's like, you know, I don't know,

1197
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:03,120
Speaker 1: especially remembering that this character is supposed to be nineteen

1198
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:07,960
Speaker 1: of like you were in a horrible situation and there

1199
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:11,360
Speaker 1: is like this level of shame and embarrassment attributed to

1200
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:14,160
Speaker 1: that situation, to the point where you don't ask for

1201
01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:17,840
Speaker 1: help when someone who could probably help you reaches out.

1202
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:20,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just that those moments, those like

1203
01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:25,120
Speaker 1: two moments for Zola really hit for me. Also, Yeah,

1204
01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:27,160
Speaker 1: I forget if that was in the Twitter threat or not.

1205
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:33,040
Speaker 1: I think that she does mention her boyfriend reaching out

1206
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:38,280
Speaker 1: and her not cluing him into what's happening. I think

1207
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:41,640
Speaker 1: that happens in the thread. I didn't even think about it,

1208
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 1: and it's like an excellent point. That's another part of

1209
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:46,639
Speaker 1: this movie that I really just have the process because

1210
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:49,240
Speaker 1: I'm just like, I don't know. That's like it's either

1211
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:52,120
Speaker 1: a discomfort because I think, I mean, her boyfriend knew

1212
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:54,800
Speaker 1: to an extent, like he knows, he knows that she's

1213
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:58,280
Speaker 1: a dancer like a stripper, right, I don't know, I

1214
01:10:58,280 --> 01:11:02,320
Speaker 1: don't know. It's checky. I don't know, Like there's like

1215
01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:04,679
Speaker 1: so many and there's so many little moments in this

1216
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:07,080
Speaker 1: movie like that we're like because that, I feel like

1217
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:10,400
Speaker 1: you could also interpret that as, like, you know, whatever,

1218
01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:14,360
Speaker 1: embarrassment for being in a dangerous situation, or it could

1219
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:16,080
Speaker 1: be a stigma issue, or it could be a little

1220
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:18,559
Speaker 1: bit of both, and it's like, you can't really know.

1221
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:21,479
Speaker 1: I don't know. I wonder if one of the reasons

1222
01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:26,639
Speaker 1: we're so perplexed by a lot of this is we've

1223
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:29,639
Speaker 1: just hardly seen this type of representation of sex workers

1224
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:34,920
Speaker 1: in movies, like representation that is more nuanced and complex

1225
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:38,759
Speaker 1: and actually centers sex workers as major characters and doesn't

1226
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:41,160
Speaker 1: just put them in the background or make them a

1227
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:44,280
Speaker 1: minor character. And we're just not used to seeing that

1228
01:11:44,439 --> 01:11:47,280
Speaker 1: because most of the representation of sex work we have

1229
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:53,320
Speaker 1: seen has been very stereotypical, very harmful, not very nuanced

1230
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:58,160
Speaker 1: or meaningful. And even Asia King has discussed that, you know,

1231
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:03,480
Speaker 1: pop culture gets sex workers wrong all the time and says,

1232
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:09,000
Speaker 1: uh quote, either it's too glamorized or it's too dehumanized.

1233
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 1: It's never about just a sex worker who is confident,

1234
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:15,680
Speaker 1: enjoys their job and that's just who they are. So

1235
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:18,479
Speaker 1: I wonder if it's like partially because we've just seen

1236
01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:23,519
Speaker 1: so little representation on screen of that type of sex

1237
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:27,320
Speaker 1: worker who you know, enjoys what they're doing and it's

1238
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:30,599
Speaker 1: just like her job. She's just her job. Yeah, she's like, yeah,

1239
01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:32,759
Speaker 1: didn't I didn't tell my mom, my boyfriend. I'm literally

1240
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 1: just at work. They'll find it so, which I mean

1241
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:42,040
Speaker 1: just speaks to the need for more meaningful representations of

1242
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:46,759
Speaker 1: sex work and sex workers on screen so the general

1243
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:50,080
Speaker 1: public can have a better understanding of what it's like,

1244
01:12:50,240 --> 01:12:54,040
Speaker 1: and because sex work is such a large spectrum, the

1245
01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:58,960
Speaker 1: whole spectrum needs to be represented. Because the only media

1246
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:02,839
Speaker 1: I consume that involves sex workers on a regular basis

1247
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:07,400
Speaker 1: is the porn that I watch, which is also often

1248
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:11,280
Speaker 1: I mean, not that respectful to women. But I found

1249
01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:16,360
Speaker 1: a few websites that are way better at it anyway,

1250
01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:23,519
Speaker 1: I watch porn. Everybody brag. I think that should be

1251
01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:29,439
Speaker 1: the tagline of this episode. Uh yeah, it's like and

1252
01:13:29,439 --> 01:13:32,679
Speaker 1: and like even speaking like going off what you're just saying.

1253
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:36,519
Speaker 1: The fact that there are not more stories about sex

1254
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:39,360
Speaker 1: workers where sex workers are meaningfully a part of the

1255
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:43,479
Speaker 1: creative process puts an undue amount of pressure on the

1256
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:46,040
Speaker 1: movies that do address sex work, like we've sort of

1257
01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:48,800
Speaker 1: talked about in a few points in this episode so

1258
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:51,799
Speaker 1: far of just like there shouldn't be this much pressure

1259
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:54,760
Speaker 1: on a single movie to address so much. But the

1260
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:58,040
Speaker 1: reason that that pressure, the temptation to apply that pressure

1261
01:13:58,040 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 1: exists because there's so few options. So it's like this

1262
01:14:01,320 --> 01:14:09,160
Speaker 1: very it's it's fucked. I guess so yes, yeah, Um,

1263
01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:10,920
Speaker 1: I just want to shout out. Another shot that I

1264
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:15,840
Speaker 1: really liked was the overhead shot of them peeing, and

1265
01:14:16,200 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 1: I just was like a perfect character, Like I really

1266
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:22,960
Speaker 1: loved Jennicks Bravo's work, but like little stuff like that

1267
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:26,080
Speaker 1: of like Zola is going to squat above the seat,

1268
01:14:26,200 --> 01:14:29,360
Speaker 1: Stephanie is gonna plant, and that tells you so much

1269
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:33,400
Speaker 1: about those characters in a single shot. And then and

1270
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:37,320
Speaker 1: then Zila uses tissue, Stephitely does not use tissue, and

1271
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:42,880
Speaker 1: then the color of the p it's I loved that

1272
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:45,720
Speaker 1: shot so much a man could not have And it's

1273
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:48,880
Speaker 1: like that's like a uniquely like corret a thesis on that,

1274
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:54,720
Speaker 1: like that's right, that shot, Like I embarrassingly took a

1275
01:14:54,760 --> 01:14:56,720
Speaker 1: picture of it on my phone because I was like,

1276
01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:00,160
Speaker 1: this is so like I just another big laugh from

1277
01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:04,960
Speaker 1: the theater and conclusion, Stephanie needs to drink more water.

1278
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:09,880
Speaker 1: Oh my god, she's hatred. I was like, well, I

1279
01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:13,280
Speaker 1: unfortunately I've seen that piss before and I was never

1280
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:16,679
Speaker 1: in a good place when I was pissing it. Um

1281
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:20,680
Speaker 1: just like, no no wiping at all. I was. I

1282
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:25,000
Speaker 1: know that's how you know she's the villain of the story.

1283
01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:29,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, I just wanted to shout that shout out

1284
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:33,920
Speaker 1: because it really um got a big old reaction out

1285
01:15:33,960 --> 01:15:37,120
Speaker 1: of me, such smart and cool, like there's no dialogue.

1286
01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:42,519
Speaker 1: That's like amazing story talk show don't tell anyways. Does

1287
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:46,719
Speaker 1: anyone have any other thoughts about the movie? I guess,

1288
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:49,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't really feel they need to talk

1289
01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:53,479
Speaker 1: about Derek that much. I do feel like, I mean,

1290
01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:56,640
Speaker 1: and this is again, this is like it's hard to like,

1291
01:15:56,720 --> 01:15:59,560
Speaker 1: you can't really put it on. Janet's a Bravo and

1292
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:03,480
Speaker 1: Jeremy o'harris, but it's like the the way that suicide

1293
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:06,920
Speaker 1: is presented in this movie is very jokey he he

1294
01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:11,680
Speaker 1: ha ha. When it's implied in the story that he

1295
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:16,120
Speaker 1: was seriously suicidal, and like the Derek character. I mean,

1296
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:18,040
Speaker 1: there is a little bit to talk about there, because

1297
01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:23,040
Speaker 1: he's like, I don't know, I maybe this isn't the

1298
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:26,080
Speaker 1: episode to like open this discussion, maybe because it is

1299
01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:28,680
Speaker 1: like pretty fraught and the like there's a lot but

1300
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:33,760
Speaker 1: like the way that quote unquote beta male characters traditionally

1301
01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:37,440
Speaker 1: are presented in movies, I just find it very interesting

1302
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:41,120
Speaker 1: because and this this movie seems conscious of it of

1303
01:16:41,240 --> 01:16:44,479
Speaker 1: like the Nicholas I mean the Nicholas brauncast. Staying tells

1304
01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:46,800
Speaker 1: you everything you need to know in a way, but

1305
01:16:46,880 --> 01:16:49,439
Speaker 1: like you know, he's presented as like you're supposed to

1306
01:16:49,479 --> 01:16:52,080
Speaker 1: feel a little bad for him. He's harmless, he doesn't

1307
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:54,599
Speaker 1: quite know what's going on, like he's being left out

1308
01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:58,200
Speaker 1: of the loop, he's being mistreated by his girlfriend, which

1309
01:16:58,240 --> 01:17:02,519
Speaker 1: he is, but then also views himself as this hero

1310
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:07,160
Speaker 1: in this story that is not happening and puts his girlfriend,

1311
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:11,200
Speaker 1: who he claims to love, in a very dangerous situation

1312
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:14,240
Speaker 1: by like outing this and in a way that also

1313
01:17:14,280 --> 01:17:18,839
Speaker 1: puts Zola in immediate danger. Where anytime Stephanie or Derek

1314
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:22,080
Speaker 1: do something to one up each other, it puts Zola

1315
01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:25,599
Speaker 1: in danger also, and no one ever addresses that Zola

1316
01:17:25,680 --> 01:17:28,439
Speaker 1: is clearly aware of it, but it's like they're just

1317
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:31,800
Speaker 1: so like caught up in their own bullshit that I

1318
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:36,400
Speaker 1: don't know that whole that character, I just I don't

1319
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:38,439
Speaker 1: know if it's it's like the move, it's one of

1320
01:17:38,479 --> 01:17:42,719
Speaker 1: the the movie seems very aware of, Like this guy

1321
01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:45,599
Speaker 1: is like, in some way you have to have you

1322
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:48,080
Speaker 1: have some empathy for him, because he's clearly not in

1323
01:17:48,120 --> 01:17:50,040
Speaker 1: a good mental state. But in the other way, he's

1324
01:17:50,040 --> 01:17:53,599
Speaker 1: putting people in danger right and left, and is like

1325
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:57,800
Speaker 1: shaming of the work that his girlfriend does. It's not

1326
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:02,240
Speaker 1: clear exactly to what extent he under stands that she's

1327
01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:07,559
Speaker 1: part of this sex trafficking thing. Well, later there's a

1328
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:10,519
Speaker 1: scene where he said something and zlose like, what do

1329
01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:13,360
Speaker 1: I look like? I wanted this? And then he turns

1330
01:18:13,439 --> 01:18:17,120
Speaker 1: to Stephanie AND's like, you brought another girl or something else.

1331
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:20,120
Speaker 1: So he does he knows, and I feel like he

1332
01:18:20,200 --> 01:18:22,400
Speaker 1: kind of plays it off by being like, I'm the

1333
01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:25,439
Speaker 1: goofy boyfriend. You should feel bad for me because my

1334
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:28,160
Speaker 1: girlfriend doesn't love me, which is like all seems to

1335
01:18:28,200 --> 01:18:31,200
Speaker 1: be true, but you're also very much aware of what's

1336
01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:34,240
Speaker 1: going on, and you're not doing anything that doesn't serve

1337
01:18:34,280 --> 01:18:37,080
Speaker 1: your own interests, and so it's like it's interesting because

1338
01:18:37,080 --> 01:18:40,400
Speaker 1: he's he's he is like I think the most the

1339
01:18:40,479 --> 01:18:44,040
Speaker 1: character presented the most comedically in the movie, and he's

1340
01:18:44,080 --> 01:18:48,160
Speaker 1: been I mean, definitely if you're too online, that character

1341
01:18:48,320 --> 01:18:53,040
Speaker 1: has been like memed and like jift to death on Twitter,

1342
01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:55,760
Speaker 1: and so I just kind of wonder. I'm like, I

1343
01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:57,760
Speaker 1: think that it comes across clearly who he is in

1344
01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:00,599
Speaker 1: the movie, but I don't know how much the like

1345
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:04,400
Speaker 1: cultural takeaway from that character was like this is not

1346
01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:06,960
Speaker 1: a great guy, like he's presented, you know in pop

1347
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:10,479
Speaker 1: culture is very like look at this kind of sad

1348
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 1: sack kind of guy. He's he doesn't know what's going on,

1349
01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:15,920
Speaker 1: he's left out of the loop and he's sad, and

1350
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:19,000
Speaker 1: it's like he does know what's going on and he's

1351
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:22,680
Speaker 1: complicit in all of it. Yeah, especially like in just

1352
01:19:22,760 --> 01:19:24,880
Speaker 1: the light of the world we've been living in in

1353
01:19:24,920 --> 01:19:27,559
Speaker 1: the past several years. Like I didn't think of it

1354
01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:29,880
Speaker 1: that way, but definitely like a character like that, I mean,

1355
01:19:30,439 --> 01:19:32,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, or just portraying it and just like

1356
01:19:32,680 --> 01:19:34,920
Speaker 1: giving them that just writing them off a little bit.

1357
01:19:35,479 --> 01:19:37,840
Speaker 1: I think it also like leaves room for all of

1358
01:19:37,840 --> 01:19:42,679
Speaker 1: these dangerous type of characters in real life, just like yeah,

1359
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:46,280
Speaker 1: you know, it reminds me again, I feel like I've

1360
01:19:46,320 --> 01:19:48,439
Speaker 1: I've made this comparison that it's like it's not quite

1361
01:19:48,439 --> 01:19:50,720
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to say, but I don't know, but

1362
01:19:50,840 --> 01:19:55,040
Speaker 1: like almost like the nerd character and like, oh, we're

1363
01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:58,760
Speaker 1: supposed to feel bad for them, like when it's like, well,

1364
01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:01,559
Speaker 1: but think about what actually doing and what knowledge they

1365
01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:04,040
Speaker 1: have and how they're weaponizing it against other people around them,

1366
01:20:04,160 --> 01:20:07,280
Speaker 1: And like I think we've gotten there with the nerd character,

1367
01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:11,360
Speaker 1: but maybe this character, I don't know, I don't know.

1368
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:13,360
Speaker 1: It's tricky because again it's like that's not even a

1369
01:20:13,360 --> 01:20:15,800
Speaker 1: criticism of the movie, because I think the movie is

1370
01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:19,720
Speaker 1: aware of that, um and tells us that. So I

1371
01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:24,280
Speaker 1: think it's an interesting conversation. Maybe well, maybe I'm sure

1372
01:20:24,400 --> 01:20:28,000
Speaker 1: that this stock character will endure. We'll come back, we'll

1373
01:20:28,000 --> 01:20:31,720
Speaker 1: circle back to it. And then the last thing I

1374
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:35,040
Speaker 1: wanted to there's so many little moments in this movie, um,

1375
01:20:35,080 --> 01:20:38,479
Speaker 1: but the moment that really stuck with me as well

1376
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:43,920
Speaker 1: as of just like how isolated Zola is made to

1377
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:47,240
Speaker 1: be in this movie and also just sounds like in

1378
01:20:47,280 --> 01:20:51,519
Speaker 1: the story itself is the moment where Zola is at

1379
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:55,639
Speaker 1: the pool. She's in public at the pool, and X

1380
01:20:55,880 --> 01:20:59,640
Speaker 1: is pretty aggressively threatening her, say like this, you know

1381
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:01,920
Speaker 1: you're going to do this, this, and this. You're going

1382
01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:05,439
Speaker 1: to be complicit in this human trafficking operation or I'm

1383
01:21:05,479 --> 01:21:09,160
Speaker 1: going to hurt you, basically, And there's like this little

1384
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:14,760
Speaker 1: moment where a waiter asked her if she's okay and

1385
01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:19,200
Speaker 1: then is kind of intimidated by X into like move along,

1386
01:21:19,680 --> 01:21:23,280
Speaker 1: there's nothing to see here, and like again, I mean again,

1387
01:21:23,360 --> 01:21:25,439
Speaker 1: it's there's a lot of ways to look at that scene,

1388
01:21:25,479 --> 01:21:28,160
Speaker 1: but I just thought that, like, even like I don't

1389
01:21:28,160 --> 01:21:29,519
Speaker 1: know if this was in the Twitter threat or not,

1390
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:31,760
Speaker 1: but just even having that included in the movie, I

1391
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:35,920
Speaker 1: feel like just makes her predicament so clear. It's like

1392
01:21:35,960 --> 01:21:40,160
Speaker 1: you can be in broad daylight and still in in

1393
01:21:40,160 --> 01:21:45,360
Speaker 1: in public and not be protected. Yeah, and yet it's

1394
01:21:45,439 --> 01:21:50,280
Speaker 1: kind of a funny movie. It's wild and yet it's

1395
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:54,600
Speaker 1: a romp um. Yeah. Does anyone have any other thoughts

1396
01:21:55,120 --> 01:22:00,400
Speaker 1: about the movie? Probably? But right I know, I'm like

1397
01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:02,920
Speaker 1: I feel like in a year or something, I'll have

1398
01:22:03,240 --> 01:22:05,519
Speaker 1: you know, there will be more written about it and

1399
01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:08,920
Speaker 1: more perspectives, because there's already a lot written about it,

1400
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:11,240
Speaker 1: but we haven't even we didn't even talk about like

1401
01:22:11,280 --> 01:22:14,559
Speaker 1: the height of the movie's action where it's like Zola

1402
01:22:14,800 --> 01:22:20,200
Speaker 1: is like assaulted by like when she when after Stephanie

1403
01:22:20,240 --> 01:22:23,439
Speaker 1: has been knocked out, so you know, very clearly physically

1404
01:22:23,439 --> 01:22:28,080
Speaker 1: assaulted Zola is, Like I mean, it's just it's a

1405
01:22:28,200 --> 01:22:34,280
Speaker 1: very very difficult scene to watch because her being calm

1406
01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:37,479
Speaker 1: through an assault. There are like lives on the line

1407
01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:40,160
Speaker 1: in the way that the scene is working, Like if

1408
01:22:40,200 --> 01:22:43,519
Speaker 1: she it is a really really hard scene to watch

1409
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:50,040
Speaker 1: where it's like, if she can't survive this abuse, then

1410
01:22:50,080 --> 01:22:55,120
Speaker 1: everyone including her is going to get shot possibly. Yeah,

1411
01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:58,680
Speaker 1: it's a it's a terrible Yeah. That moment does not

1412
01:22:58,880 --> 01:23:03,519
Speaker 1: get mentioned in the Twitter thread. Interesting, Okay, I don't

1413
01:23:03,640 --> 01:23:07,160
Speaker 1: think does anyone I can double check that. I don't

1414
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:11,639
Speaker 1: think it at least not in that much detail because

1415
01:23:11,640 --> 01:23:15,720
Speaker 1: in the Twitter thread, and again I didn't reread the

1416
01:23:15,800 --> 01:23:19,080
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone article because that whole damn website is paywalled,

1417
01:23:20,040 --> 01:23:22,960
Speaker 1: so I don't know the fact checking of it. But um,

1418
01:23:23,080 --> 01:23:28,599
Speaker 1: but in the original Twitter thread, uh, it's said that

1419
01:23:29,040 --> 01:23:32,960
Speaker 1: z like shoots that guy in the head, like that

1420
01:23:33,400 --> 01:23:38,800
Speaker 1: the rival. Uh was it the rival Hustler? The rival

1421
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:41,960
Speaker 1: Hustler is like shot in the head by z But

1422
01:23:42,120 --> 01:23:44,960
Speaker 1: I don't think that there is that like moment of

1423
01:23:45,120 --> 01:23:49,840
Speaker 1: Zola being explicitly abused in the original story. I think

1424
01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:55,559
Speaker 1: also that z shooting the rival Hustler is one of

1425
01:23:55,600 --> 01:23:59,640
Speaker 1: the things that Asia King admits to having embellished in

1426
01:23:59,680 --> 01:24:03,479
Speaker 1: the Twitter or thread. So if I remember correctly, the

1427
01:24:04,520 --> 01:24:07,040
Speaker 1: like according to the thread, so I think the movie

1428
01:24:07,040 --> 01:24:10,800
Speaker 1: embellishes on the thread, and then the thread embellishes what

1429
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:15,720
Speaker 1: actually happened. Um, I do not believe this is this

1430
01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:19,559
Speaker 1: assault even happens in the Twitter thread, although it could

1431
01:24:19,560 --> 01:24:23,400
Speaker 1: be something that like Asia King just it did happen

1432
01:24:23,439 --> 01:24:27,160
Speaker 1: and then just left out because it's extremely It's Twitter.

1433
01:24:27,400 --> 01:24:29,680
Speaker 1: It's a very triggering thing. You know, it's a very

1434
01:24:29,680 --> 01:24:33,520
Speaker 1: traumatizing thing. But maybe you know, she told the screenwriters

1435
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:37,000
Speaker 1: like this did happen. I'm only speculating here. We we

1436
01:24:37,080 --> 01:24:40,200
Speaker 1: don't know. UM. I kind of feel like like Jamie,

1437
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:43,040
Speaker 1: like to your point, just even describing the scene, whether

1438
01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:45,479
Speaker 1: or not you know what happened or not, just like

1439
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:48,559
Speaker 1: as a scene in the in the movie, and just

1440
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:51,960
Speaker 1: like watching her endure it and just like knowing how

1441
01:24:52,040 --> 01:24:54,920
Speaker 1: much is at stake. That kind of goes back to

1442
01:24:55,080 --> 01:24:59,000
Speaker 1: the questions of you know how this movie interrogates like

1443
01:24:59,080 --> 01:25:02,439
Speaker 1: race or intersectionality just as a black woman, because even

1444
01:25:02,439 --> 01:25:05,600
Speaker 1: like her role as she got in on all of this,

1445
01:25:05,840 --> 01:25:10,719
Speaker 1: she kind of ended up becoming uh, Stephanie's protector um

1446
01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:13,839
Speaker 1: and like that's literally like that's her job. She's supposed

1447
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:15,400
Speaker 1: to be there to make sure nothing happens to her.

1448
01:25:15,439 --> 01:25:17,200
Speaker 1: And that's when she has that moment where she says, well,

1449
01:25:17,200 --> 01:25:19,960
Speaker 1: who's looking out for me? And like I felt like

1450
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:22,200
Speaker 1: that was a powerful moment and I feel like or

1451
01:25:22,240 --> 01:25:25,240
Speaker 1: just the stakes of everything with her and just like

1452
01:25:25,320 --> 01:25:29,320
Speaker 1: trusting her, or like when Coleman demingoes X, like why

1453
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:32,240
Speaker 1: do I not remember I'm like everyone's government names um.

1454
01:25:33,080 --> 01:25:36,000
Speaker 1: When when takes her on the balcony and like gives

1455
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:38,519
Speaker 1: her the gun and that's the moment that he's like, Okay,

1456
01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:41,000
Speaker 1: so this is this is now your burden? You know

1457
01:25:41,760 --> 01:25:45,160
Speaker 1: that felt like something worth mentioning, Like when it comes

1458
01:25:45,200 --> 01:25:48,320
Speaker 1: to just just discussions on race and intersectionality and just

1459
01:25:48,400 --> 01:25:50,360
Speaker 1: what it's like to exist as a black woman and

1460
01:25:50,439 --> 01:25:53,360
Speaker 1: just so many different spaces. But here's an example of

1461
01:25:53,400 --> 01:25:56,640
Speaker 1: it and just it kind of you know, it felt familiar,

1462
01:25:57,240 --> 01:26:01,880
Speaker 1: right she She's expected to be this like white woman's protector.

1463
01:26:02,520 --> 01:26:07,320
Speaker 1: There's at least one scene where as like Stephanie starts

1464
01:26:07,439 --> 01:26:13,640
Speaker 1: selling sex and Zola is like basically being the hostess

1465
01:26:13,720 --> 01:26:16,800
Speaker 1: of this like letting the people in. The first guy

1466
01:26:17,240 --> 01:26:21,439
Speaker 1: looks Zola up and down and says, I ordered a

1467
01:26:21,439 --> 01:26:25,280
Speaker 1: white woman or something like that. Just every step of

1468
01:26:25,320 --> 01:26:29,280
Speaker 1: the way on this trip, Zola is being devalued and

1469
01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:33,960
Speaker 1: put in dangerous and traumatizing situations because as a black woman,

1470
01:26:34,240 --> 01:26:38,479
Speaker 1: her life isn't seen as valuable by these people around her.

1471
01:26:39,000 --> 01:26:44,479
Speaker 1: Stephanie is weaponizing her white woman hood in like kind

1472
01:26:44,479 --> 01:26:47,479
Speaker 1: of like playing the hits Um in terms of what

1473
01:26:47,600 --> 01:26:50,519
Speaker 1: that looks like where she's in a way that like

1474
01:26:50,640 --> 01:26:52,599
Speaker 1: as if you were you find out twenty minutes later

1475
01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:55,920
Speaker 1: she's completely lying like she knows exactly what's going on.

1476
01:26:56,240 --> 01:27:00,080
Speaker 1: And there is I mean, that's not to dismiss a

1477
01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:04,240
Speaker 1: power dynamic between she and X which is never made

1478
01:27:04,360 --> 01:27:07,479
Speaker 1: quite explicitly clear, but it is like she is in

1479
01:27:08,080 --> 01:27:11,120
Speaker 1: danger in that situation with him to an extent, and

1480
01:27:11,479 --> 01:27:14,680
Speaker 1: we see that she doesn't have access to money and

1481
01:27:14,720 --> 01:27:17,360
Speaker 1: that she is completely dependent on him in order to

1482
01:27:17,360 --> 01:27:19,200
Speaker 1: be able to continue to survive. And I don't mean

1483
01:27:19,240 --> 01:27:22,000
Speaker 1: to dismiss that power dynamic, but in the way that

1484
01:27:22,120 --> 01:27:24,400
Speaker 1: like she's acting like this is the first time this

1485
01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:26,240
Speaker 1: has ever happened. I have no idea what's going on,

1486
01:27:26,360 --> 01:27:30,200
Speaker 1: And she starts crying to Zola saying, like you need

1487
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:33,040
Speaker 1: to protect me, like this is I mean, like you're

1488
01:27:33,080 --> 01:27:36,080
Speaker 1: just saying Jamila with a different pair of characters, like

1489
01:27:36,200 --> 01:27:38,960
Speaker 1: it is your burden to protect me, even though you

1490
01:27:39,120 --> 01:27:43,479
Speaker 1: never asked to be here, And like watching Zola have

1491
01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:46,960
Speaker 1: to deal with that and like have that unnecessary pressure

1492
01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:48,920
Speaker 1: put on her, and then to find out twenty minutes

1493
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:51,920
Speaker 1: later that it was complete total bullshit, like she knew

1494
01:27:51,920 --> 01:27:56,240
Speaker 1: exactly what was going on. It's it's it's it's tricky,

1495
01:27:56,479 --> 01:28:03,080
Speaker 1: it's it's a lot. And that's the thesis of today's episode. Today.

1496
01:28:04,680 --> 01:28:06,200
Speaker 1: Is there is there anything else anyone else wants to

1497
01:28:06,280 --> 01:28:10,760
Speaker 1: touch on before we wrap up? I don't think so well.

1498
01:28:10,840 --> 01:28:13,719
Speaker 1: This movie passes the Bachdel test. Tell you what it does.

1499
01:28:13,960 --> 01:28:17,479
Speaker 1: It does in scenes that are again very cringe e

1500
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:22,400
Speaker 1: because it's Stephanie doing a black scent and lying to

1501
01:28:22,479 --> 01:28:27,240
Speaker 1: Zola's face and lying and manipulating Zola the whole time.

1502
01:28:28,479 --> 01:28:31,160
Speaker 1: But that's how the story went down in real life,

1503
01:28:31,479 --> 01:28:36,519
Speaker 1: so it is representative of real life conversations that happen

1504
01:28:36,640 --> 01:28:42,599
Speaker 1: sometimes as far as our nipple scale goes, the scale

1505
01:28:42,720 --> 01:28:46,960
Speaker 1: of zero to five nipples, based on how the movie

1506
01:28:47,280 --> 01:28:52,720
Speaker 1: fares examining it through an intersectional feminist lens, it was hard.

1507
01:28:53,760 --> 01:29:00,920
Speaker 1: It's another tricky one, I would say, because of who

1508
01:29:01,160 --> 01:29:05,439
Speaker 1: told the story originally and the way they presented the story,

1509
01:29:06,320 --> 01:29:11,400
Speaker 1: the tone that Asia King used, the just unfolding of

1510
01:29:11,520 --> 01:29:14,960
Speaker 1: events the movie is. It seems to be a pretty

1511
01:29:14,960 --> 01:29:18,960
Speaker 1: faithful adaptation from the tweets the people making the movie,

1512
01:29:19,080 --> 01:29:24,599
Speaker 1: particularly the writers and director, and the lens by which

1513
01:29:24,720 --> 01:29:30,559
Speaker 1: they are delivering this story. The fact that Asia King

1514
01:29:31,000 --> 01:29:36,800
Speaker 1: was involved in the process of that, so it's like

1515
01:29:37,040 --> 01:29:40,759
Speaker 1: her story as told by her, told on her terms.

1516
01:29:41,520 --> 01:29:45,719
Speaker 1: That's what makes the movie effective. I'll give the movie

1517
01:29:47,360 --> 01:29:52,600
Speaker 1: four nipples. I think, just kind of based on the

1518
01:29:52,960 --> 01:29:56,960
Speaker 1: uncertainties we've had throughout the episode, just sort of the questions,

1519
01:29:57,240 --> 01:29:59,960
Speaker 1: although maybe I don't know, maybe that's too low. Maybe

1520
01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:03,200
Speaker 1: that's like I'm judging it too harshly based on the

1521
01:30:03,320 --> 01:30:05,960
Speaker 1: things that we said about like how we there is

1522
01:30:06,040 --> 01:30:09,360
Speaker 1: like too much pressure placed on movies like this because

1523
01:30:09,360 --> 01:30:12,760
Speaker 1: they're having to do so much to like represent something

1524
01:30:12,840 --> 01:30:16,920
Speaker 1: that's been underrepresented. I'll stick with four nipples though this

1525
01:30:17,200 --> 01:30:20,479
Speaker 1: is something that you know, maybe looking back on the

1526
01:30:20,560 --> 01:30:24,000
Speaker 1: movie in a year or two, it'll be higher or lower.

1527
01:30:24,439 --> 01:30:27,120
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but um, for now, it's four nipples.

1528
01:30:27,760 --> 01:30:32,040
Speaker 1: I will give one to Jennison Bravo, I will give

1529
01:30:32,320 --> 01:30:35,920
Speaker 1: one to Jeremy o' harris, I will give one to

1530
01:30:36,080 --> 01:30:41,559
Speaker 1: Taylor Page, and I will give one too Common Domingo.

1531
01:30:42,720 --> 01:30:46,720
Speaker 1: I'll go for as well. I think that, um, you

1532
01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:50,439
Speaker 1: know again, I hope that the conversation around this movie continues,

1533
01:30:50,640 --> 01:30:53,920
Speaker 1: mainly just because like more people should see this movie. Um.

1534
01:30:54,080 --> 01:30:57,439
Speaker 1: I hope that it continues to like find its audience

1535
01:30:57,520 --> 01:31:01,679
Speaker 1: over time, because I feel like the pandemic really screwed

1536
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:04,200
Speaker 1: this movie in a way that wasn't fair, and I

1537
01:31:04,360 --> 01:31:07,479
Speaker 1: hope that people continue to see it. Um yeah, I

1538
01:31:07,560 --> 01:31:11,960
Speaker 1: mean I there's a lot of heavy stuff addressed in

1539
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:14,479
Speaker 1: this movie. I think the team behind this movie is

1540
01:31:14,560 --> 01:31:18,720
Speaker 1: fucking incredible, and I just like love Jenexa problems work

1541
01:31:18,800 --> 01:31:21,160
Speaker 1: so much and am so like I can't wait to

1542
01:31:21,200 --> 01:31:24,120
Speaker 1: see future stuff she makes I think, really like the

1543
01:31:24,439 --> 01:31:26,160
Speaker 1: main thing that sticks with me here is I just

1544
01:31:26,400 --> 01:31:29,320
Speaker 1: I don't know enough about human trafficking to be able

1545
01:31:29,400 --> 01:31:33,519
Speaker 1: to um make any sort of definitive call on that front.

1546
01:31:33,560 --> 01:31:38,320
Speaker 1: But I do wish that we had been given because

1547
01:31:38,479 --> 01:31:41,400
Speaker 1: the movie is has such invested interest in telling the

1548
01:31:41,520 --> 01:31:45,760
Speaker 1: story of Zola. I mean, maybe they just don't include

1549
01:31:46,560 --> 01:31:49,040
Speaker 1: what ends up happening as it pertains to human trafficking

1550
01:31:49,120 --> 01:31:51,640
Speaker 1: because that wasn't included in the Twitter thread. But I

1551
01:31:52,080 --> 01:31:55,640
Speaker 1: personally think it would have been helpful for the audience

1552
01:31:55,840 --> 01:31:58,400
Speaker 1: and wouldn't have hurt the tone of the movie in

1553
01:31:58,479 --> 01:32:03,559
Speaker 1: any way to um in include that information. That's my opinion.

1554
01:32:04,120 --> 01:32:08,760
Speaker 1: But I mean, this movie is I I really enjoyed it,

1555
01:32:08,840 --> 01:32:12,240
Speaker 1: and it also like it's just so challenging in so

1556
01:32:12,400 --> 01:32:16,240
Speaker 1: many ways. I feel like we all have acknowledged that.

1557
01:32:16,400 --> 01:32:18,840
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't know, I gotta keep thinking about it,

1558
01:32:19,080 --> 01:32:22,799
Speaker 1: um because there's just so much going on. Um Jadeck's

1559
01:32:22,800 --> 01:32:25,639
Speaker 1: a Bravo and an interview with I Think a Slate

1560
01:32:26,160 --> 01:32:29,479
Speaker 1: said that ultimately this movie is a cautionary tale about

1561
01:32:29,560 --> 01:32:31,840
Speaker 1: making friends with white people actually, and I'm going to

1562
01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:37,799
Speaker 1: leave it at that, and with with that, and giving

1563
01:32:38,160 --> 01:32:40,800
Speaker 1: Asia King, you know, like the agency to like tell

1564
01:32:40,880 --> 01:32:45,479
Speaker 1: her own story, being the core missions of this movie.

1565
01:32:45,720 --> 01:32:48,639
Speaker 1: I feel like it's super super successful in accomplishing those things,

1566
01:32:48,680 --> 01:32:51,000
Speaker 1: and then there's also all this other stuff. But I'm

1567
01:32:51,000 --> 01:32:54,920
Speaker 1: gonna go four nipples. I will be watching this movie again.

1568
01:32:54,960 --> 01:32:56,599
Speaker 1: I feel like I think I'm gon wait a year

1569
01:32:56,680 --> 01:32:59,559
Speaker 1: and then watch it again and see if I've become

1570
01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:04,040
Speaker 1: a smart her person or not. Um, but I'll give

1571
01:33:04,080 --> 01:33:07,280
Speaker 1: four nipples. I'll give one to Jenik's Bravo. When did

1572
01:33:07,320 --> 01:33:12,160
Speaker 1: Jeremio Harris, one to Joey McMillan, the editor, and one

1573
01:33:12,240 --> 01:33:15,160
Speaker 1: to Ari Wagner, the cinematographer. I thought everyone did a

1574
01:33:15,200 --> 01:33:20,519
Speaker 1: great job. Jimmie, La, what do you think? You literally

1575
01:33:20,560 --> 01:33:25,559
Speaker 1: said everything that I was gonna say, Jamie, I agree.

1576
01:33:25,680 --> 01:33:29,599
Speaker 1: I will give this four nipples. And I did wait

1577
01:33:29,720 --> 01:33:32,519
Speaker 1: a year, a year more than a year, two years.

1578
01:33:32,840 --> 01:33:35,559
Speaker 1: I saw this movie initially played Commas two years ago

1579
01:33:35,760 --> 01:33:39,960
Speaker 1: January twenty UM, and I just rewatched it again today.

1580
01:33:40,360 --> 01:33:44,320
Speaker 1: So um, and I still don't feel smarter. So there's

1581
01:33:44,320 --> 01:33:47,439
Speaker 1: sad to have two years to get smarter. I will say,

1582
01:33:47,960 --> 01:33:50,320
Speaker 1: you know, you know, um, but you're like, we're already

1583
01:33:50,360 --> 01:33:52,080
Speaker 1: on the same level. So it's like, really, it's really

1584
01:33:52,120 --> 01:33:55,160
Speaker 1: sad for me, but yeah, I give it four nipples

1585
01:33:55,479 --> 01:33:57,720
Speaker 1: for the same reason I feel like, I mean, the

1586
01:33:57,840 --> 01:34:00,200
Speaker 1: main reason that it worked for me I was start

1587
01:34:00,240 --> 01:34:03,720
Speaker 1: with that is again, as I mentioned, just the fact

1588
01:34:03,800 --> 01:34:06,800
Speaker 1: that it gave Asia, a black woman, the opportunity to

1589
01:34:07,800 --> 01:34:09,960
Speaker 1: have control and agency over her story and to tell

1590
01:34:10,000 --> 01:34:12,439
Speaker 1: her story. And also just the fact that she just

1591
01:34:12,880 --> 01:34:15,280
Speaker 1: it started on Twitter, like it literally started on Twitter.

1592
01:34:15,320 --> 01:34:18,400
Speaker 1: There are so many black women, or women of color,

1593
01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:22,519
Speaker 1: or non binary women just or non binary women, non

1594
01:34:22,600 --> 01:34:26,439
Speaker 1: binary people, or just people in general whose stories just

1595
01:34:26,600 --> 01:34:31,439
Speaker 1: aren't being told on a platform like a Sundance or

1596
01:34:31,920 --> 01:34:34,559
Speaker 1: the big screen in general. And the fact that her

1597
01:34:34,600 --> 01:34:37,760
Speaker 1: story was able to go from Twitter to the big

1598
01:34:37,840 --> 01:34:40,120
Speaker 1: screen and that she was able to be involved with

1599
01:34:40,200 --> 01:34:43,639
Speaker 1: it throughout the process, and the fact that she seemed

1600
01:34:43,960 --> 01:34:45,920
Speaker 1: I mean, she was at Sundance with all their interviews,

1601
01:34:45,960 --> 01:34:48,560
Speaker 1: she sat she sat in with them on every on

1602
01:34:48,680 --> 01:34:52,360
Speaker 1: every conversation, and the fact that she seemed so comfortable

1603
01:34:52,439 --> 01:34:54,080
Speaker 1: with it and just so on board with it and

1604
01:34:54,200 --> 01:34:57,200
Speaker 1: just so proud of it. Like that's what kind of

1605
01:34:57,240 --> 01:34:59,160
Speaker 1: spoke to me. I'm like, well, this is her story

1606
01:34:59,200 --> 01:35:02,160
Speaker 1: and she seems out of the finished product, And to me,

1607
01:35:02,320 --> 01:35:04,680
Speaker 1: that's like just to see a black woman have that

1608
01:35:04,800 --> 01:35:07,960
Speaker 1: type of control who like, it's not in this industry.

1609
01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:10,519
Speaker 1: She didn't go to film school, she didn't like learn

1610
01:35:10,600 --> 01:35:13,519
Speaker 1: how to you know, write scripts on a professional level,

1611
01:35:13,760 --> 01:35:16,080
Speaker 1: but she was able to tell her story and share

1612
01:35:16,080 --> 01:35:17,960
Speaker 1: it in such a on such a big platform. And

1613
01:35:18,040 --> 01:35:20,760
Speaker 1: I think that's that's powerful to me. Whether or not

1614
01:35:21,280 --> 01:35:24,519
Speaker 1: the story resonates with you, just the fact that it's told,

1615
01:35:24,600 --> 01:35:27,240
Speaker 1: I think is just like meaningful. Um So, there's that.

1616
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:31,560
Speaker 1: But then again, you know the shortcomings of it, and

1617
01:35:31,720 --> 01:35:34,519
Speaker 1: just like I do feel like the main shortcoming from

1618
01:35:34,560 --> 01:35:37,840
Speaker 1: me is just like there was just a missed moment

1619
01:35:37,920 --> 01:35:40,639
Speaker 1: with the ending, and I agree, just like if if

1620
01:35:40,680 --> 01:35:43,679
Speaker 1: we were shown a little bit more of what actually

1621
01:35:43,800 --> 01:35:47,120
Speaker 1: happened when it's all said and done, that definitely would

1622
01:35:47,160 --> 01:35:50,120
Speaker 1: have I think that would have had a really big impact.

1623
01:35:50,680 --> 01:35:52,240
Speaker 1: And like you said, Jamie, I don't think it would

1624
01:35:52,240 --> 01:35:55,200
Speaker 1: have taken away from the story at all or the film.

1625
01:35:56,120 --> 01:35:59,720
Speaker 1: Sorry if that car was really loud? Um so yeah

1626
01:35:59,840 --> 01:36:02,200
Speaker 1: that so yeah, I give it for nipples. I think

1627
01:36:02,240 --> 01:36:04,080
Speaker 1: it's I think it's a really good film. I think

1628
01:36:04,120 --> 01:36:06,320
Speaker 1: it's really interesting. I think it's also something that I

1629
01:36:06,360 --> 01:36:08,360
Speaker 1: don't think I've seen before. Like when I saw it,

1630
01:36:08,400 --> 01:36:11,200
Speaker 1: I was like, this feels different. So you know at

1631
01:36:11,240 --> 01:36:13,160
Speaker 1: the end of the day that that's an accomplishment in itself.

1632
01:36:13,200 --> 01:36:15,560
Speaker 1: Because there's so many things I just feel so like

1633
01:36:15,720 --> 01:36:18,200
Speaker 1: we've seen them before, or even the use of social media,

1634
01:36:18,400 --> 01:36:21,400
Speaker 1: and just like how it was shot, and just I

1635
01:36:21,560 --> 01:36:25,960
Speaker 1: heard Jenexa talk about how she like pictured like cellophane,

1636
01:36:26,560 --> 01:36:28,639
Speaker 1: kind of like the way she wanted it to look

1637
01:36:28,840 --> 01:36:30,840
Speaker 1: like on top of I don't know, I can't remember

1638
01:36:30,840 --> 01:36:33,040
Speaker 1: how she explained it, but like the shininess at certain

1639
01:36:33,120 --> 01:36:36,000
Speaker 1: moments of it, especially in the mirror sequence, just like

1640
01:36:36,320 --> 01:36:38,439
Speaker 1: so many things, like it was just shot in such

1641
01:36:38,479 --> 01:36:41,720
Speaker 1: an interesting way. But again just the fact that there

1642
01:36:41,720 --> 01:36:43,519
Speaker 1: were some there were black women at the top just

1643
01:36:43,600 --> 01:36:46,360
Speaker 1: controlling all of this, and so I'm here for it.

1644
01:36:46,960 --> 01:36:48,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, so for an apples, I will give one

1645
01:36:49,080 --> 01:36:53,320
Speaker 1: to jenex Appravo, I will give one to Taylor Page,

1646
01:36:54,479 --> 01:37:00,680
Speaker 1: I will give one to Colman Domingo. And Okay, so

1647
01:37:00,840 --> 01:37:03,040
Speaker 1: like I want to give this one to Jeremo Harris,

1648
01:37:03,600 --> 01:37:06,200
Speaker 1: but I also I just I think Riley Kyo did

1649
01:37:06,240 --> 01:37:09,600
Speaker 1: a great job in the depiction of his character, I

1650
01:37:09,640 --> 01:37:14,599
Speaker 1: mean her performances, I mean noteworthy. Yeah, the performance is great,

1651
01:37:14,680 --> 01:37:17,880
Speaker 1: Like I hate the character deeply, like more than more

1652
01:37:17,920 --> 01:37:20,720
Speaker 1: than most, but the performance is great. So I you know,

1653
01:37:20,760 --> 01:37:22,160
Speaker 1: I just want to give her a shout out. But

1654
01:37:22,320 --> 01:37:24,479
Speaker 1: I'm going to give the fourth one to jeremal Hair.

1655
01:37:24,520 --> 01:37:26,479
Speaker 1: It is just because co writing it and just like

1656
01:37:27,040 --> 01:37:29,640
Speaker 1: it's just unique. It's and I really I'm hoping that

1657
01:37:29,720 --> 01:37:32,360
Speaker 1: we get to see a lot more stories that that

1658
01:37:32,600 --> 01:37:34,880
Speaker 1: make it all the way to the big screen. But

1659
01:37:35,000 --> 01:37:37,840
Speaker 1: they start off like just you know, simple and small

1660
01:37:38,040 --> 01:37:41,720
Speaker 1: and just you know, just I don't know, beautiful. Plus,

1661
01:37:41,800 --> 01:37:44,120
Speaker 1: Jeremo Harris is a close personal friend of yours. Now

1662
01:37:44,160 --> 01:37:47,040
Speaker 1: based on all the times you bumped hotel and hotels,

1663
01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:49,800
Speaker 1: we are best friends. We're best friends, and he just

1664
01:37:49,840 --> 01:37:52,920
Speaker 1: does not know it yet. Um so you will, you

1665
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:57,599
Speaker 1: will give it time. I also, I wanted to double

1666
01:37:57,720 --> 01:38:01,120
Speaker 1: gift all four of my nipples to the P shot.

1667
01:38:01,240 --> 01:38:02,920
Speaker 1: I forgot that that was what I was oriinking to do,

1668
01:38:03,040 --> 01:38:05,840
Speaker 1: give four nipples to the P shot because it is

1669
01:38:05,880 --> 01:38:10,519
Speaker 1: now my favorite shot in all of movies, is a

1670
01:38:10,560 --> 01:38:12,960
Speaker 1: shot that will go down in history. Yeah, yeah, I

1671
01:38:13,040 --> 01:38:14,479
Speaker 1: kind of want to go to film school just I

1672
01:38:14,479 --> 01:38:17,080
Speaker 1: can talk to somebody about that. I truly, I like,

1673
01:38:17,160 --> 01:38:20,960
Speaker 1: I really do think that there's there's a whole paper

1674
01:38:21,040 --> 01:38:25,120
Speaker 1: in there. It's God. I guess I love P driven storytelling.

1675
01:38:25,160 --> 01:38:30,560
Speaker 1: I'm learning P visibility. It's finally, your pizza says a

1676
01:38:30,640 --> 01:38:32,640
Speaker 1: lot about what's going on in your life and the

1677
01:38:32,680 --> 01:38:36,160
Speaker 1: way you pee, while that tells just as much in

1678
01:38:36,280 --> 01:38:43,040
Speaker 1: this essay, I will well, Jimmila, thank you so much

1679
01:38:43,160 --> 01:38:46,280
Speaker 1: for joining us. It's been an absolute treat. Thank you

1680
01:38:46,400 --> 01:38:49,479
Speaker 1: so much for having me. This has been wonderful, Like

1681
01:38:49,720 --> 01:38:53,160
Speaker 1: having the opportunity again to rewatch this movie two years later,

1682
01:38:54,160 --> 01:38:57,200
Speaker 1: just like, really think about all of the things. This

1683
01:38:57,320 --> 01:39:02,000
Speaker 1: has been great. Come back anytime to cover, to cover anything, whatever.

1684
01:39:03,000 --> 01:39:07,680
Speaker 1: Where can people follow you online and check out your

1685
01:39:07,720 --> 01:39:10,880
Speaker 1: writing and all that good stuff? Um? People can find

1686
01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:16,680
Speaker 1: me on Twitter or Instagram at Mila nash um and

1687
01:39:17,400 --> 01:39:20,840
Speaker 1: I write regularly for teen Vogue. UM So if you

1688
01:39:20,920 --> 01:39:24,280
Speaker 1: just check out teen vows website, search my name, I'm

1689
01:39:24,320 --> 01:39:29,400
Speaker 1: there nice but yeah beautiful, And you can follow us

1690
01:39:29,720 --> 01:39:33,680
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram at pecktel cast. You can go

1691
01:39:33,880 --> 01:39:38,679
Speaker 1: to our Matreon which is at patreon dot com. Slash

1692
01:39:38,720 --> 01:39:42,840
Speaker 1: pecktel Cast and get to bonus episodes every month, plus

1693
01:39:42,960 --> 01:39:47,320
Speaker 1: access to the back catalog of bonus episodes. This month,

1694
01:39:47,360 --> 01:39:54,160
Speaker 1: we're observing Jane Austebruary because you all won't stop requesting

1695
01:39:54,280 --> 01:39:56,760
Speaker 1: Jane Austen adaptations. And it took us five years, but

1696
01:39:57,160 --> 01:39:59,479
Speaker 1: we're gonna do it, and we're gonna read a book.

1697
01:40:00,200 --> 01:40:04,040
Speaker 1: I'm reading a book. Everybody, I said I'd never do it,

1698
01:40:04,320 --> 01:40:07,840
Speaker 1: but I'm doing. I'm reading Pride and Prejudice. Wow, we're

1699
01:40:07,920 --> 01:40:11,760
Speaker 1: like regular tenth graders over here. So tune in to

1700
01:40:12,760 --> 01:40:18,120
Speaker 1: Jane Ary or Austin August all your heart or the

1701
01:40:18,280 --> 01:40:23,360
Speaker 1: thing that you said, Jamie, And uh yeah, so that's it.

1702
01:40:23,680 --> 01:40:27,120
Speaker 1: Patreon dot com, slash specktel cast, and you can find

1703
01:40:27,160 --> 01:40:30,000
Speaker 1: our merch at t public dot com slash the pectel cast.

1704
01:40:30,040 --> 01:40:31,879
Speaker 1: Get it or don't get it, none of our business.

1705
01:40:32,640 --> 01:40:37,360
Speaker 1: And with that, um, let's get the hell out of Florida. Gang.

1706
01:40:37,520 --> 01:40:41,720
Speaker 1: Let's let's please leave, please yes, Bye bye