1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: Bodybacks with Joseph Scott Morgan. You know certain people in 2 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:24,600 Speaker 1: this life that just have an inclination toward helping those 3 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: that are less fortunate. Emily Noble is such a person. 4 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: She particularly had a heart for those that were aged, 5 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: those that had lost loved ones that were up in 6 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: age and we're in declining health. And she had spent 7 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: her entire adult life taking care of individuals like this, 8 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: and people said that she would just light up a 9 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: room when she came in, and she was tenacious as well. 10 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: She worked in a medicare office and she would go 11 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: to bat for people and she would look out for them, 12 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: and she still to this day is remembered for that 13 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: specific trait. However, the one thing that sticks in my 14 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: mind about Emily is that Emily was found all alone 15 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: in a wooded area, deceased in a very unusual way. Today, 16 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the death of Emily Noble 17 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybags. Joining me is 18 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 1: Jackie Howard, executive producer of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jackie, 19 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: you know she actually went missing on her birthday. That 20 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: day that we celebrate a life of an individual. I 21 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: can't even imagine how this impacted the world in which 22 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: she inhabited. You're absolutely right, Joe. We do know that, 23 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: as you pointed out, Emily was very highly thought of 24 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: by her friends and family. And let's look a little 25 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: bit at her life before we talk about her death. 26 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: Emily was in her second marriage. Her first husband had died, 27 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: he committed suicide, and then Emily met a new person 28 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: to share her wife with. Her second husband is Matthew Moore, 29 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: and he brought children into the marriage, a seventeen year 30 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: old son, and the son had some emotional difficulties, but Emily, 31 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: as you said, had experience with that, so bringing this 32 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: dynamic into their marriage was really not a hardship for Emily. 33 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: She went out with her husband again, Matthew Moore, to 34 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: celebrate her fifty second birthday in twenty twenty. That was 35 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 1: the Memorial Day weekend holiday. They went out, had a 36 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: nice evening already a little bit, had a few dreams, 37 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: had dinner with friends, and then they went home. That night. 38 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: After going to bed, Matthew Moore says he got up 39 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: and instead of returning to the bedroom after using the restroom, 40 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:00,359 Speaker 1: he decided to go into a spare guest for him 41 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 1: so that he would not disturb his wife's sleep. When 42 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: he gets up the next morning, Emily's gone, what do 43 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: you do at that moment? You know, as an investigator, 44 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people would ask me, you know, some 45 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: of the things that you're going to be looking for. 46 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: You know, when you show up at a scene like this, 47 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: where it seems as though the individual is just like 48 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: vanished into thin air, you know, those remnants of their life, 49 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: and you know, you think about the world that we 50 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: live in. You think about car keys and id and 51 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 1: pocketbooks and wallets and vehicles, you know, all these sorts 52 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: of things that give you an indication that someone has 53 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: actually left. And you know, when we come onto a scene, 54 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: as an investigator, will look for those little points of 55 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: evidentiary consideration along the way, just to try to try 56 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: to get an ideas to what was happening. Because understand this, 57 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: anytime you're talking about a missing person's case into a 58 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: great degree of death investigation, you've got nothing to work 59 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: with other than those physical things that are either present 60 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: or absent. My old adage is this, and I teach 61 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: my students this in the classes, is that you know, 62 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,559 Speaker 1: negative findings are just as valuable as positive findings along 63 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: the way, because you know, if you create this huge 64 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: mental checklist in your mind, you're essentially knocking things off 65 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: that are going to probably block or clude your view 66 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: as an investigator. So you can begin to eliminate things. 67 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: So if you've got a person that lives at a 68 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: particular resonance, their keys are still there, their wallets still there, 69 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: their vehicles, their money, all those sort of things that 70 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: you need to kind of get by outside of the home, 71 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 1: then that begins to narrow your focus down quite a bit. 72 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: And then of course, the next thing you're going to 73 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: jump to or things like, you know, signs of struggle. 74 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: And we've all heard this before. There's no signs of 75 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: forced entry or struggle at the scene. And it's kind 76 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: of it's almost a boilerplate statement that we make, but 77 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: there's a lot of depth there, you know, when you 78 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: think about it, signs a forest entry, Well, we'll look 79 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: around the doorframe to see if it's been pressed in 80 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: any way. One of the things that I have been 81 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: witnessed to where you have somebody that comes into a 82 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: home and actually commits some kind of horrible crime in 83 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: this environment, I've seen any number of times where there 84 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: is a clear footprint on the door, generally near the 85 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: latch externally, where people have kicked it in, and it 86 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: really that tells a lot, doesn't it. Or maybe a 87 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: location where somebody's put their shoulder into the door and 88 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: you've got broken glass and the frame is kind of 89 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: caved in, and then when you get inside of the home, 90 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: if someone is resistant, for instance, you kind of surprise them. 91 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: You might have upturned furniture where they're struggling to get 92 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,799 Speaker 1: away from the stranger. But none of that stuff existed. 93 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: And kimon Man chiefs in dwelling this residence with her husband, 94 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: even though he's not in the same room with her. 95 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: According to him, he's gone off and slept in a 96 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: separate area in order to avoid waking her up. He 97 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 1: would think that if something like that had occurred, he 98 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 1: could have been alerted, you know, a high pitched scream 99 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: or the crashing of furniture and all that sort of thing. 100 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 1: None of that really existed in this environment. Emiley just 101 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: kind of vaporized, just disappeared. You brought up being able 102 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: to hear if something happened. So you're talking eyewitness and 103 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: ear witness. So did the husband hear anything? Did he 104 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: hear someone trying to get into the home? And then 105 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: we want to look at the eyewitness not just did 106 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: anybody in the neighborhood see something going on? But looking 107 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: at what was found in the bedroom? Was anything missing? 108 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: Was the bed awry? Was there blood? Was there anything broken? 109 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: And those are all the things that you're talking about, Joe. 110 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: So how do the investigators perceived since at this point 111 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: there doesn't seem to be anything wrong? Yeah, there's not. 112 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: I think that one really salient point here that would 113 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: really you know, from an investigative standpoint, that would really 114 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: raise my red flags is what do we know about 115 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: what was occurring that evening? Well, we know that there 116 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: was a birthday celebration, and anytime you have as an 117 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: death investigator in particular, I've always had these kind of markers. 118 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: They involved anniversaries, birthdays, maybe anniversaries in your mind, where 119 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: their benchmarks in your own life, where people have passed 120 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: away that you greatly love. And sometimes those are indications 121 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: of an individual maybe going off to do some kind 122 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: of self harm, Aren't it because they're sad about getting older, 123 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: or they're sad because they're missing somebody in their life, 124 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: or you know, they've gone through a divorce or something 125 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: that happened on that particular day. And then you couple 126 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: that with the fact that she and her husband had 127 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: gone out that night to celebrate her birthday. And it's 128 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: not like they just stopped off at a local watering 129 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: hole and just kind of sat there and just you know, 130 00:07:57,840 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: talked and you know, had a few drinks. That they 131 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: went to multiple locations. And when you begin to talk 132 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: about something as weighty as this adult woman that just 133 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: vanishes off of the face the planet, you know, what 134 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: is it that she's engaging in at that moment time 135 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: or approximating that moment time that's different than any other 136 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: time in her normal day to day life. Well, she's 137 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: going out to these multiple locations. There's an opportunity if 138 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: you have a predator out there, for instance, that will 139 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: have spotted these two together or maybe had spotted her 140 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: and they were going to target her. So you're going 141 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: to multiple locations and you're kind of following them along 142 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: as an investigator. That's one of the things that we 143 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: pick up on. You know, you're going to do a 144 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: deep dive into this, go back look at CCTV captures 145 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: if you can, from local bars, also from anything that's 146 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 1: out on the street, street pewcams, those sorts of things 147 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: to see if anybody was shadowing them as they're kind 148 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: of walking around and moving back and forth to their 149 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: car and that sort of thing, because you have to eliminate, 150 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: like I said, you have to eliminate all of the 151 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: possibilities moving forward. You know, you only get really one 152 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: shot at this. And how a case like this will 153 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: vary from a say, a static death investigation where you 154 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: have a body and you're going out there and you're 155 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: kind of tracing back from that primary scene location back 156 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: to where they were living or where they had been 157 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. This is still very dynamic because 158 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: your working assumption is that at this point in time, 159 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: she is still alive. So you throw in this idea 160 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: that you're you know, you're calling in missing person squad, 161 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: you might be calling in federal marshals or state police 162 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 1: that are going to be on the lookout, and so 163 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: you've got all this other data that's coming in, and 164 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: you know that's all fine and good, but what happens 165 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: is a lot of the stuff that you're looking at 166 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 1: forensically that a death investigator would look at. It's kind 167 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: of being lost. It's been last because your focus has 168 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,199 Speaker 1: shifted in this type of investigation. I know that there's 169 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 1: not a printed list Joe of things that investigators go through. 170 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 1: It's probably a list in their mind of you know, 171 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: what they're looking for in a house or in a location. 172 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: Rather when someone goes missing. But here you have the evidence, 173 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: her phone, her keys, Emily's wallet are still in the home. 174 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: So you've got this checklist that you go by in 175 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: your mind that you're checking as anybody seen, or is 176 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: their cameras in the house, or their footprints outside, so 177 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: many things. But if there is, as you pointed out earlier, 178 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: negative findings, how do you go about setting yourself up 179 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: for a successful investigation. Well, it comes down to probability. 180 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: At that point in time, you begin to think, well, 181 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: if she is not here in this location and there's 182 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: no evidence that something has happen happened that is indicative 183 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: of a horrific event like broken furniture, blood trails, blood spots, 184 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,839 Speaker 1: attempts to clean up blood, all those sorts of things. 185 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: Then you have to think, well, what are going to 186 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: be my highest probabilities for what happened to her, And 187 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: you have to follow kind of that line of logic. 188 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: And you know, if the car is still there, you think, well, 189 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: she's walking, she's ambulatory. At that point in time, she 190 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 1: has wandered away from the house. I don't know. Maybe 191 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: she came home that night, they'd had a lot to drink. 192 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: She's in the bedroom by herself, admittedly according to her husband. 193 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: Remember he said he wouldn't slept in the other bedroom. 194 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: She wakes up, she's disoriented, she walks out of the door, 195 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: closes the door behind her, and wanders off, maybe in 196 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 1: her bare feet. If you can't find her shoes around 197 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: the house, then you assume that she put them on. 198 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: But if she didn't, maybe she's got a pair of 199 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: house shoes. She walked out in those What are the 200 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: possibilities And it's from that central point, that central point, 201 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 1: which would be her bedroom where she was ass known 202 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: to be alive according to her husband, you would begin 203 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: to use that as your investigative hub, that's the hub 204 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 1: of the wheel. And then radiating out from that, you're 205 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: going to follow every type of physical path that she 206 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: could have potentially tried. If you will to get as 207 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: much distance between her and the central hub and an 208 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: ending location. You know, you begin to think about things, well, 209 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: is there a wooded area that she could have wandered 210 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: off into. If there is a wooded area, of what 211 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: kind of hazards are in there? Are we talking about 212 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: that there's some kind of gulture, you know, a cliff 213 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 1: that she could have stepped off on. If she's in 214 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: a rugged territory. Is there a river or body of 215 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: water nearby that she could have wandered off into and 216 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: became helpless and maybe drowned in that location? Is there 217 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: a major roadway if she was disoriented and she walked 218 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: out into the roadway where somebody could have snatched her up, 219 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: or even worse, she could have been struck as a pedestrian. 220 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: She's laying dead on the side of the road. And 221 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: you know, to your point, you know, we talk a 222 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: lot about these checklists that we kind of run through 223 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: in our mind. I've got to tell you, in my 224 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: time as a death investigator, and when I first started 225 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: as a very young death investigator, we didn't have a 226 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,559 Speaker 1: bunch of checklists that you know, we could download off 227 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: of something. These things were literally handed down to us 228 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: verbally many times, and we would try to codify them 229 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: in some way and write them down. But after a 230 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 1: period of time, you begin to check these things off 231 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: in your brain as you're working these cases, because you 232 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: reflect back to earlier cases that you had handled, and 233 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: hopefully you don't do it every time, but hopefully you're 234 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: thinking back, you know, how did I screw up an 235 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: earlier case, or what did I'm miss in an earlier 236 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: case where I can go back and try to do 237 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: this one a little bit better. Now. They do have 238 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: checklists that will that they will run down, and I've 239 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:53,719 Speaker 1: heard a couple of people say this kind of a 240 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: very interesting point. It's great to have a checklist, but 241 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 1: when you marry yourself to a checklist, there's a certain 242 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: amount of creativity that goes into an investigation, and you 243 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: kind of handicap yourself at that point in time because 244 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: you're doing this thing, as they say, by rote, and 245 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: you're not thinking outside the box at that point in time, 246 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: and that can be detrimental to the investigation as well. 247 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: You've got someone in your life that you just absolutely 248 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: dearly love. I cannot even begin to fathom fathom the 249 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: depths of pain and anguished that an individual goes through 250 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: when you wake up and that person is not there anythink, 251 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: what in the world am I going to do? Who 252 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: is there to help me? Because I can only imagine 253 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: that is probably as alone as you ever feel as 254 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: a spouse. So with that said, Jackie, you know the 255 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: search has got to start somewhere and you have got 256 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: to call and help at this point in time, and 257 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: helped came. Joe helped aim in droves Emily's family, Emily's 258 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: friends started searching. Now their home. There was a lot 259 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: of wooded areas around her home, so thought was knowing 260 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: that Emily liked being out in nature. Her friends said 261 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: she often would take photos and that she liked to 262 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: take an early morning qualt. So that was the first 263 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: place that her friends and family started looking, the nature 264 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: areas surrounding their home. They even brought in cadaver dogs, 265 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: drones and divers for those areas near them. Obviously they 266 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: were looking for a body or for her. What kind 267 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: of clues would these three things give you, Joe, Look, 268 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: you introduced canaan into this environment, and we all know 269 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: that when we see things, we're visualizing things. We kind 270 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: of have a visual spectrum that we work on where 271 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: we sense different types of light shading, all those sorts 272 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: of things. And dogs, by their nature have great eyesight 273 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: there you know, they're natural hunters. But if you think 274 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: their site is fantastic, you begin to think about and 275 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: I've worked with cadaver dogs before you begin to think 276 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: about this kind of all factory spectrum that they have 277 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: that sense of smell. It is beyond anything that we 278 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: can actually fathom as humans and so and it's very 279 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: finely tuned. And these dogs, when you're talking about a 280 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: cadaver dog as opposed to say, for instance, a tracking dog, 281 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: we have this old image of a bluetick hound dog 282 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: that they use and where prisoners have escaped and they 283 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: put these dogs on the trail. The cadaver dog is 284 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: specifically trained to go out and pick up scent of 285 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: the dead because it dead have a very specific odor 286 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: that dogs can pick up on. And you know, and 287 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: interestingly enough with you know, over the years when I 288 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: worked at the Corners offices and medical Examiner's offices I 289 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: worked for in the past, you know, daver dog trainers 290 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: would actually come to our facility and they would many 291 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: times grab a rag with our permission, bring a rag 292 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: with them that's uncontaminated, or an old sock, and they 293 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 1: would essentially sent that item with the scent of the dead. 294 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 1: It can come in a variety of choices. Here you 295 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: have the freshly dead to decompose, severely decomposed, which we 296 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: would have at the morgue, to something as benign as 297 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,640 Speaker 1: skelptal remains, which you wouldn't think would have a scent, 298 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 1: but it does. And they would have samples from each 299 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: one of these. And they would take these dogs out 300 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: and train them on this all factory spectrum, if you will. 301 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: And so it's quite fascinating to see these animals work. 302 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: And so I think again you get when an investigator 303 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: is in the presence of a cadaver dog, it can 304 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,199 Speaker 1: I think that on one level, it can make it 305 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: kind of lazy because you're you're sitting there and you're thinking, well, 306 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: if the dog doesn't hit out here, then there's nothing 307 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: to be found. Well, as great as these dogs are, 308 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: they don't always find everything that there is out there. 309 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: And you know you have to couple that with common 310 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 1: sense as well. The dog. The whole thing is not 311 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 1: on the dog itself. It's on how the handler manages 312 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,120 Speaker 1: the animal, and then all of the peripheral people. Let's 313 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: think about you know, she had friends that were out 314 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: there there. There were people that really loved this woman, 315 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 1: cared about her because she had cared for so many 316 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: other people, and so yeah, people that would go out 317 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: day after day looking for her because they all knew, 318 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 1: you know, like we'd said earlier, her her wallet, her keys, money, everything. 319 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: We're the other vehicles still there. Where could she have 320 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: gone to? You know, she just didn't you know, kind 321 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,959 Speaker 1: of ascend up in the air and float off. She 322 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 1: had to have left that location very specifically, probably walking 323 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: away or having been walked away from that location. So 324 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,239 Speaker 1: you begin to look at this and you know some 325 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: of the other factors that come into play, Well, do 326 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 1: you have a person that tracks humans that's out there, 327 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 1: that can look for sign you know, things like cloth 328 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: caught in trees, threads reading sign of say, footprints, disturbed vegetation, 329 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: which you would look forward, things that are broken, things 330 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: that are pressed away. Because if you have somebody, let's 331 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 1: just say you have somebody that is in an altered state, 332 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,199 Speaker 1: that altered state is going to impede their ability to 333 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: find a standard path to walk down. So they're going 334 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: to walk through overgrown brush areas, and a person that's 335 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: keen to this, that can look at this, can understand, well, 336 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: this area of vegetation has been penetrated by somebody or something. 337 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 1: You can see these broken branches, you can see the 338 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 1: ground is pressed down, all the vegetation is pressed down. 339 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: They're going to be really keen to follow that and 340 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 1: see that. One of the things that you're hoping is 341 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: not going to happen though, that you'll have a volunteer 342 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: that might walk through the same area and contaminate the 343 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: area or disrupt it from its original pristine composition. You 344 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: mentioned something that I found absolutely fascinating and talking about 345 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: the cadaver dogs. They can smell bones even when there 346 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: is no organic matter remaining. Well, yeah, and you know, 347 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: bone itself is in fact organic. But kind of what 348 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: you will have the problem is we're influenced so much 349 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 1: by by media. You know, the things that we see 350 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: on television, all the sorts of things that you think. 351 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: You know, people when they think skeleton or skeletonized remains, 352 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: they see some whitewashed collection of bones that have been 353 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: created on a set somewhere that's not the reality. These 354 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: bones are going to be. First off, unless they're sitting 355 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: out in the desert somewhere, they're not going to be 356 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,479 Speaker 1: bleached white. They're going to have kind of a yellow 357 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: appearance to them, and there will still be remnant of 358 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 1: tissue that's left behind, but that remnantive tissue is not 359 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: going to be as robust as it would have been 360 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: in the earlier stages. And here's another thing that occurs 361 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: with skeletal remains, is that as bodies are left out 362 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: in nature and you have all of the local fauna, 363 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: which you know, when we're talking about forensic biology talking 364 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: about flora and fauna, flora being the plants, and in 365 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 1: fauna being the local animal kingdom that inhabits that particular area. 366 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: The fauna whether it's raccoons or possums, or even squirrels, yes, squirrels, 367 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,959 Speaker 1: or certainly dogs or hogs. If you live in an 368 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: area where there's wild hogs, they will root around bodies 369 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,199 Speaker 1: and they will drag things off. So many times you 370 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: can take a cadaver dog out in these areas and 371 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: they will have multiple hits on decomposing remains, even if 372 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: it is bone. Because these animals will take them to 373 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: their burrows and place them in these locations. So you're 374 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: getting hits, multiple hits, all over the place, as opposed 375 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 1: to say something that is what's referred to as concentrically located. 376 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: We've heard the term eccentrically well. As the body is 377 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 1: essentially taken apart, these remains become eccentric to the initial location, 378 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: the primary scene, and so you'll have them dispersed all 379 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: over the place, and this can be very very confusing. 380 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 1: That's why it's very important as to when you find 381 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: those elements that are separate from what you believe is 382 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: the primary scene, you mark those elements and you secure 383 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 1: them in place. And that does first off, it helps 384 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: you as you begin to document the location of that 385 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:39,919 Speaker 1: gives you an idea. You can look at it and 386 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: you know you can kind of surmise what had happened. 387 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 1: Is this a post mortem event? As this something where 388 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 1: you have a remain, a skeletal remain, an element. Let's say, 389 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: for instance, it's a vertebral body, a bone from the spine, 390 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: where an animal is taken at that location, maybe buried 391 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: it or maybe simply gnawd on it and then walked 392 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: away and left that behind, or is this something more 393 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 1: sinister even than that, where you have somebody that has, say, 394 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 1: for instance, dismembered a body and left that portion there. 395 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 1: It may have never been touched by an animal, but 396 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: you document in that location. An Animal behaviorists also look 397 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: at these kinds of things to see what locations these 398 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: animals trapes off with. And if you have say two 399 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 1: competing animal groups, they're not necessarily going to go in 400 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 1: the same location with that remain that they find. You 401 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 1: can even see this behavior in dogs. If you have 402 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: a bunch of dogs around and you give elements for 403 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: them to chew on and that sort of thing, they're 404 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: going to take them off in different directions many times 405 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: because that is theirs. They possess that thing, they're going 406 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: to take it off. It's no different with human remains, 407 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: they do the same. You'll see the same behavior. And 408 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:50,120 Speaker 1: particularly in the animal kingdom, there's a pecking order. That's 409 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: why they talk about animals that are out there like 410 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: bears and alligators and all sorts of things that are 411 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: apex predators. Well, the smaller animals don't want to have 412 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: anything to do with the bigger animals. They want to 413 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: take that little piece they have and go to their location. 414 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: So those are some of the things that you began 415 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: to look for out in this environment. A couple of 416 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: months went by, and the investigation into Emily Noble's disappearance continues. 417 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: But then, as Nancy would say, a twist, a group 418 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:22,640 Speaker 1: of Emily's friends were out searching. What did they find? Joe, 419 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 1: we're talking four months for count them, four months down 420 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: range since her birthday. You began to look at this 421 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: and her friends have been searching high and low for 422 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: her had not been able to find her. I'm sure 423 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 1: that they're just broken hearted. But what before I'd dig 424 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: too deep into this, just understand what these friends have 425 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 1: been doing. They have stayed committed through this entire exercise. 426 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 1: You know, it's real easy for people to say, yeah, 427 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: we're going to gather together and go look for somebody, 428 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 1: but you're still doing a four months down range. That 429 00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: gives you an idea as to how much they loved well, 430 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: four months, four months, they just didn't quit. They just 431 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:10,439 Speaker 1: kept on. And what is so striking about this is 432 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: that when these four friends were purposefully outlooking for their friend, 433 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: they were out there with purpose to find her. They did, 434 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: you know, being a death investigator by trade, it wasn't 435 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: me that generally found bodies. I think maybe in the 436 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: entire course of my career I found actually found maybe 437 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: three bodies. You're the one that has always summoned out 438 00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 1: after the body has been found. And I've always wondered 439 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: about a civilian that's out wandering about, particularly an individual 440 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: it might be vested, and they come across a body, 441 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: It's got to be one of the most shocking things 442 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: that anyone could be subjected to. It would have to 443 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: be a horrifying experience, especially to find your friend in 444 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 1: the position and the state that the body was in. 445 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 1: As Emily's friends were out searching, they came across a 446 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: decomposing body that was found in a kneeling position near 447 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: a tree, and there was a rope what appeared to 448 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: be a rope suspended from the tree. It actually turned 449 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,120 Speaker 1: out that it was a USB cord around Emily's neck. 450 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: They had to use dental records to identify Emily Noble. Yeah, 451 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,959 Speaker 1: you're talking four months down range, as I'd previously mentioned, 452 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: and during that period of tom and in this environment, 453 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: remember we've gone through the entire summer here remember, let's 454 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: let's reflect back just for a second. She went missing 455 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: back in May, all right. She was not found until September. 456 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 1: So regardless of what geographic location you may live in 457 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: in our country, in the United States, temperatures are going 458 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: to begin to rise, you know, going into well starting 459 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: in April, they begin to rise, and then you know 460 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: they'll gradually fall off. But with heat, with heat, as 461 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: we've previously discussed on body bags, with heat comes more 462 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: rapid decomposition. The colder it is, the slower decompositions, the 463 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: hotter it is, the quicker it happens. And the fact 464 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 1: that they were able to find her body still intact, 465 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: and to say that the body is intact is in 466 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 1: air quotes here because it's it's one of the most 467 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: bizarre things I've heard of in some time. They did 468 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,919 Speaker 1: find her remains there, and this is not like you 469 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: can walk up to Emily's mortal remains and say, yeah, 470 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: that's Emily, all right. I've never been a fan of that. 471 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: I'm not a fan of showing family's bodies. You know 472 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,679 Speaker 1: the old idea where you pull the sheet back and 473 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: they look at the face, say yeah, that's my loved one. 474 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: I like scientific verification. And as you had mentioned Jackie 475 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: just a moment ago, they did to use dental anti 476 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,360 Speaker 1: mortem dental records. You know, you have to track down 477 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 1: to dentist because you suspect that it might be her, 478 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 1: but you have to have a forensic odentologist who is 479 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: a forensic dentist that will come in and actually do 480 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 1: a dental chart. Just think about going to your dentist 481 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: and the dentist charting your teeth in life. Forensic odentologists, 482 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: though many times they're known for bite mark examination, where 483 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: they really make them money is identifying bodies because the 484 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: teeth are so static, you know they're there. It's not 485 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: like other things in the body. It's as accurate as 486 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: you can be without getting into the area of DNA, 487 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: which they eventually did with Emily. But you compare the 488 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: anti mortem, which means prior to death, with post mortem 489 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,719 Speaker 1: dental charting. So you're looking for missing teeth which may 490 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: have been missing in life. Say if somebody had had 491 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,479 Speaker 1: I'm giving an example, if someone has had their wisdom 492 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: teeth extracted in life. Well, if you've come across a 493 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: body and they still have their wisdom teeth automatically, that 494 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: person doesn't qualify that chart that you have that you 495 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: suspect that it might be that person's out of the 496 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: bedding at that point in time. But if you see 497 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: that their wisdom teeth are missing in the anti mortem 498 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: chart that you have indicates those wisdom teeth, that's one 499 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: box you can check. And then you go and look 500 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: at fillings to see what teeth are filled. Did she 501 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: have any cavitations and her teeth, did she have any replacements? 502 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: Was there a bridge there? Did she have caps on 503 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: her teeth? You know some people will get porcelain caps 504 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: covering their teeth, crowns, those sorts of things, any kind 505 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: of manifestations. Teeth are absolutely fascinating in this sense as 506 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: for their utility to identify a body, and not just that, 507 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: but the position of teeth because teeth they have multiple 508 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,479 Speaker 1: planes of identifications. It's the basis why people get correct 509 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: if things done to their teeth all the time. You know, 510 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: when where kids, people get bracest placed on the teeth, 511 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: because teeth will rotate, you know, along the compass phase 512 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty degrees. Along those points, they can 513 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: rotate in any number of degrees, and people want to 514 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: get those shifted back so that they look quote unquote normal, 515 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: you know, whatever that means relative to teeth. So they 516 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: can be pitched forward, pitched back, that can pitch sideways, 517 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: and they can rotate. So those are unique to each individual. 518 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: And so what makes it even more unique is that 519 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: there are thirty two teeth in the adult mouth. So 520 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: it's that's what makes it so fascinating. When you begin 521 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: to do the math on this, that the opportunity becomes 522 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: exponential in order to identify. So that's why they rely 523 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: upon this. But once they got her identified, because you 524 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: could not look at her body and say that that 525 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: is in fact her, then the assessment begins to, well 526 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: what actually happened to her? You talk about this ligature 527 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: that was found in place around her neck or her 528 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 1: neck area. You know, at first, I'm sure that they 529 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: thought that it probably was a rope or some kind 530 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: of chord. Turned out to be a USB chord, which 531 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: is not something that's very robust, you know, you think 532 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: about it. I mean, how many of us out there 533 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: have had to replace a USB chord because it just 534 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: craps out on so you can't use it any longer. 535 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: It becomes fraid or fragile, that sorre thing a USB 536 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: chord's going to be used in order to hang yourself with, 537 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: because that's what they were saying. They were saying that 538 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: this appeared to be at first a suicide, and the 539 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: fact that she was down for this period of time 540 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: and in a knee lean position when she was found 541 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: fully closed, her skeletal remains were still intact. Jackie, this 542 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: is mind blowing. In a kneeling position beneath this tree 543 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: with this USB cord around her neck and then anchor 544 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: to the tree somehow the authorities had not been very 545 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: specific about it, but this was entirely supporting her weight 546 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: at this moment in time. And you want to know 547 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: something else, what's really fascinating about this. She had decomposed 548 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: so much, huh that when they got her remains back 549 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: to the coroner's office, her total her total body weight 550 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 1: including clothing was nineteen pounds nineteen pounds, but yet the 551 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: body had remained intact, which is absolutely fascinating to me 552 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: in this case. There's so much about this case fascinating. 553 00:32:54,680 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: I am in tree fascinated and perplexed by the fact 554 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: that her body was in a kneeling position and remained there. 555 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: Now looking at the USB cord, I have never seen 556 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: a USB cord longer than ten feet. So yeah, if 557 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: she's in a kneeling position, and if it's a ten 558 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: feet you know, a USB cord that's only ten feet, 559 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: then you're looking at a trade branch that's really not 560 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: very by off the ground. So most people, when you 561 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: think of hanging yourself, you think, okay, my feet doesn't 562 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: touch the ground, right, So how is that possible? Yeah, 563 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: that's a that's a fallacy that people are suspended. Let's 564 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: go ahead and eradicate that to begin with. That's that's 565 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: not um, that's untrue. As a matter of fact, I've 566 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: had probably more people that are not totally suspended as 567 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: opposed to having been suspended. That mean, when I say suspended, 568 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: I mean their feet are not on the floor at all, 569 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: that their body essentially is floating in air. Again, we're 570 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: at the mercy of the entertainment world because that's how 571 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: it's portrayed. That's very dramatic, isn't it when you think 572 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: about it. You know, how many times have we seen 573 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: a movie where a person opens the door and there's 574 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,799 Speaker 1: two feet dangling in the air and that's just not 575 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: the case. I've when we begin to think about the 576 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,959 Speaker 1: length of the ligature. You talked about the USB cord. 577 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,720 Speaker 1: You haven't seen one. It's longer than than ten feet. 578 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 1: You know, you can go into a truck stop. I 579 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,320 Speaker 1: think about this in trips I take. You can go 580 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: in the truck stop and get a replacement USB cord. 581 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: And you're right, they are very long. You know. You 582 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: plug it in the in the charger in the front 583 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: of the car and you can hand it over you 584 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: over your shoulder to your kids in the backseat because 585 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,800 Speaker 1: they're complaining they can't charge their phone. And yeah, that's 586 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: that's the greatest length. But you don't really need that much. 587 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 1: I've actually had people that have hung themselves with hair 588 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: dryer cords where the hair dryer, the actual body of 589 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: the hair dryer, is hanging beneath the neck. It doesn't 590 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 1: require much. But people do not need to be and 591 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,839 Speaker 1: just hear me right, do not need to be suspended 592 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: in order to hang themselves. They can be. I've had 593 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 1: them in a kneeling position. I've had them in the 594 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: seeded position as well. How does your fight or flight 595 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: instinct if you are trying to hang yourself, not go ah, 596 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,879 Speaker 1: wait a minute, I don't want to do this. If 597 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 1: you are able to touch the ground and save yourself, 598 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: how do you keep from doing that. I've always been 599 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: fascinated by this, and I think that a lot of 600 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: it has to do not with the occlusion of the airway, 601 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: that is, where the airway is being blocked, where it's 602 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 1: clamping down, because you know, you begin to think about, well, 603 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: I mean, any of us that have been in an 604 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: environment where we lose our breath. Say when you're a 605 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,359 Speaker 1: kid and you're you know, there's an old game people 606 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,839 Speaker 1: would play a pigpile. You know, everybody piles on top 607 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: of one another, and you're gasping for air and you're 608 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: fighting because you can't breathe. It's not the same mechanism. 609 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,399 Speaker 1: It's not the same mechanism at all. Remember when you're 610 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,279 Speaker 1: talking about a literature. The airway, yeah, is compromised to 611 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,720 Speaker 1: a great degree. But the other thing that is even 612 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,880 Speaker 1: more compromised, it's more greatly compromised, is your blood flow. 613 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 1: What happens when those areas are blocked. You know, you've 614 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 1: got your crodded vessels that are supplying your brain with 615 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: oxygenated blood. Well, I'll tell you what happens. There's a 616 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 1: sleepiness that sets in. There's a sleepiness that sets in, 617 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 1: and people will set themselves in these positions and slowly 618 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 1: sink to the floor. There's a lack of oxygen saturation 619 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: going to the brain. Okay, visa to be the blood, 620 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: not the airway. The airway is the uptake. You know, 621 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 1: you're supplying through your lungs and none. That's not what 622 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 1: I'm talking about. I'm talking about oxygenated blood making its 623 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:40,800 Speaker 1: way to the brain. You having a noxic event where 624 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: the flow of oxygenated blood is being shut down to 625 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,399 Speaker 1: the brain and people become sleepy at that point in time. 626 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: That's the only way I've ever been able to explain this, 627 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 1: because it's fascinating to me when I see someone that 628 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 1: is not totally suspended. They're either sitting on their backside 629 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: or on their knees and they've hung themselves this way. 630 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,879 Speaker 1: You know, we have this with auto erotic cases many 631 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: times where people will hang themselves intentionally and it's ruled 632 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 1: of course, those are ruled as accidental death, and it 633 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 1: is because the blood flow has been cut off to 634 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: the brain, not the oxygen itself, not the airway, and 635 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 1: the airway if you're being smothered or choked or something 636 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,399 Speaker 1: like that, that does initiate that fight or flight. When 637 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,720 Speaker 1: we look at the injuries that Emi linked Noble add 638 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:31,839 Speaker 1: we find that she was strangled, yet she also had 639 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 1: some severe injuries to her face and neck. Yeah, we do. 640 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 1: And that is what has led authorities to begin to 641 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:48,839 Speaker 1: question as to whether or not this case was in 642 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 1: fact a suicide. And they've come to the conclusion that 643 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,279 Speaker 1: Emily's death was actually a staged suicide. That means it 644 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: is something that is made to look as though this 645 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,839 Speaker 1: was a hanging, a self inflicted hanging, as opposed to 646 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 1: something much more nefarious and dark. And let me give 647 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: you the evidence that I have for this. If you 648 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:11,239 Speaker 1: think about the base of your tongue, and how many 649 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 1: times have we talked about this, you know, over our 650 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: time together, jacking not just a body back. Yeah, yeah, 651 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: that's what we're going to talk about. The highoid bone 652 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,839 Speaker 1: sits so high up in the neck. And again I'll 653 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 1: refresh everybody that doesn't remember. If the highoid bone is 654 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,799 Speaker 1: not only non articulated bone in the human body, that 655 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,960 Speaker 1: means it's not connected to any other bone, and its 656 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: sole purpose is to anchor the tongue in the back 657 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 1: of the throat. You begin to think about how high 658 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,279 Speaker 1: up in your throat the back of your tongue is. 659 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 1: It doesn't go all the way down, you know, all 660 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:44,919 Speaker 1: the way down your throat. It's anchored in the back, 661 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 1: and it's anchored by the highoid, very very high up. 662 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 1: So you begin to couple that, and you look at 663 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,480 Speaker 1: the diameter, which is, I don't know, cord of an 664 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,360 Speaker 1: inch maybe for a USB cord. How's the USB cord 665 00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:00,319 Speaker 1: going to break? It would have to be so high, 666 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: and you would have to fall with such force, and 667 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 1: it would have to be specifically targeted. And here's the 668 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,400 Speaker 1: thing about her fractures. And I say fracture, Notice I 669 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:15,839 Speaker 1: say fracturedres plural. The highway bone is shaped like a 670 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 1: horse shoe or some people say. You'll hear forensic pathologists 671 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 1: talk about it as a bird like structure. That means 672 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 1: it's got wings. You've got the left greater horn and 673 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 1: the right greater horn, which are the end tips of 674 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: this thing. Okay, Like just think about the tips of 675 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:36,600 Speaker 1: the wings of a bird. All right, Both of those 676 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:42,319 Speaker 1: both of those wings in Emily's case, are fractured. You 677 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 1: know what that requires. That requires a specific targeted pressure 678 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,440 Speaker 1: to those areas for a sustained period of time. The 679 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 1: only way you achieve that is by either a sea 680 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 1: clamp or a throttling. Sea clamp is a single hand 681 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 1: that goes up high a neck and you begin to 682 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 1: squeeze down like you're squeezing an orange, or throttling where 683 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,960 Speaker 1: you've got your thumbs crossed over and that kind of 684 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: classic theatrical choking. Somebody out and you're high up on 685 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:16,239 Speaker 1: the neck and you're squeezing. But not only was Emily's 686 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:23,200 Speaker 1: highwoid fractured in multiple locations, but also her thyroid cartilage, 687 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,880 Speaker 1: which sits inferior, which is just a fancy word for 688 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 1: below below the highwoid. It's a cartilaginous body that kind 689 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 1: of contains you know, where our airway is and everything. 690 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: It was fractured as well. So you've got cartilage that 691 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,319 Speaker 1: was fractured. That's how much pressure was applied. You're not 692 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,800 Speaker 1: just talking about a bone, which we think about fracturing 693 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,799 Speaker 1: with bones. We don't think about cartilage being fractured. In 694 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 1: her case, her thyroid cartilage was actually fractured, was fractured 695 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,959 Speaker 1: and snapped along the way. There's evidence that she's got 696 00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 1: damage to her maxilla. If everybody will ascend, actually take 697 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,840 Speaker 1: their index finger and touch above their upper teeth that 698 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:08,320 Speaker 1: hard area where your teeth are implanted or set that 699 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 1: that's your maxilla. That's the hard palette up there that 700 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 1: was damaged as well. You say, well, how are those 701 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:21,000 Speaker 1: two things associated. Well, in my opinion, if you get 702 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 1: trauma to the maxillary area, that's submission, that's you're going 703 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 1: to submit. You're putting your hand forcefully over their mouth, 704 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,799 Speaker 1: for instance, or you're punching them in that area, and 705 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 1: you're directly causing trauma to that hard area above their 706 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: upper teeth to get them to submit. And then a 707 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: hand or some other item that you can direct force 708 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 1: with this placed over their throat that you know, and 709 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,760 Speaker 1: she's she's not a very large woman. She's very delicate looking, 710 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 1: you know in life, you see her, she's very slightly built. 711 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 1: It wouldn't take much and you begin to apply that 712 00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,960 Speaker 1: direct pressure, you begin to squeeze like that, and essentially 713 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:06,080 Speaker 1: what happened is that the highway was fractured during all 714 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,080 Speaker 1: of this, which led to her death. And also her 715 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 1: airway at the top end was compromised because the thyroid 716 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,319 Speaker 1: cordleitge was fractured. No, no, no, no, wait a minute, 717 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,880 Speaker 1: let me play Devil's advocate for just a second. Could 718 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,880 Speaker 1: those injuries have happened after her death if she was 719 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 1: suspended by this usp chord. Could that have happened as 720 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:32,239 Speaker 1: her body decomposed and it changed the angle of how 721 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:36,200 Speaker 1: her body was resting. I might agree with you if 722 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:40,399 Speaker 1: if we said that the USB cord was overlying one 723 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:46,160 Speaker 1: specific area and it gave way the structural continuity, just 724 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,560 Speaker 1: it gave in to this time that her body spent 725 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:54,920 Speaker 1: spent decomposing, But two specific areas. You're talking about a 726 00:42:54,960 --> 00:43:00,880 Speaker 1: bone that's very isolated and with two bony prominences that 727 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,719 Speaker 1: are several that are probably two to three inches, and 728 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,000 Speaker 1: with a part well, let's just say an inch and 729 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: a half to two inches, and both of those features 730 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,880 Speaker 1: of that singular bone were fractured. I find that highly unlikely. 731 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,880 Speaker 1: It would tell me that you had to have direct 732 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 1: pressure applied for a protracted period of time, and it 733 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:27,319 Speaker 1: would have to be an increasing pressure to get this 734 00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:33,040 Speaker 1: bone and these two separate locations anatomically to snap. That's 735 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,640 Speaker 1: what would have to take place. And one of the 736 00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 1: things that we look for with and I'm going to 737 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:42,880 Speaker 1: kind of tell everybody, you know, kind of how we 738 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:48,200 Speaker 1: differentiate between a stage suicide and a real suicide. When 739 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,480 Speaker 1: you're looking at a literature that is around somebody's neck 740 00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:55,160 Speaker 1: that has been used to kill themselves with a noose, 741 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,799 Speaker 1: if you will, because of the suspension, because of the 742 00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:01,279 Speaker 1: weight of the body, the body hanging down and it's 743 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:05,920 Speaker 1: being supported by this news on the exterior of the neck, 744 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:10,200 Speaker 1: say the tissue that's left behind. You'll have this interesting 745 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 1: feature that will present itself. That's called tinting. And I 746 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,839 Speaker 1: like the tinting on your car windows, tinting like we're 747 00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,759 Speaker 1: going tinting tonight, like pup tent t E n T 748 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:27,400 Speaker 1: I n G tinting feature that literally travels upward in 749 00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,799 Speaker 1: an acute angle so that the news forms kind of 750 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,120 Speaker 1: the top of the pup tent at the back side 751 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:35,800 Speaker 1: of the head. And so you'll have this deep furrow. 752 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,680 Speaker 1: And remember a USB cord is not very robust, it's 753 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,960 Speaker 1: very very thin. So the rule of thumb for us 754 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 1: as death investigators, the more narrow the literature the deeper 755 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:51,520 Speaker 1: the furrow because you've got a smaller surface area to 756 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:55,840 Speaker 1: support the body weight. So if someone used, say, for instance, 757 00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,440 Speaker 1: a belt, say a three h wide belt, the furrow 758 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,120 Speaker 1: is going to be shallow. Okay, it's not gonna be 759 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,000 Speaker 1: real deep because you've got that wide surface area to 760 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,600 Speaker 1: support the body weight. With a USB cord, However, it's 761 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:10,600 Speaker 1: going to dig in. It'll be very very deep. Now, 762 00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:15,200 Speaker 1: if a person has been hanging for a protracted period 763 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:20,640 Speaker 1: of time, they'll have this tinting feature. However, if there 764 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,839 Speaker 1: if there was other pressure that was applied below that, 765 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,160 Speaker 1: say like a broad area where you have hemorrhage that's 766 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:33,240 Speaker 1: not running say acutely upward, that's associated with the tinting feature. 767 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,920 Speaker 1: But yet you have hemorrhage that's running kind of parallel 768 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,040 Speaker 1: to the shoulders, which is going straight back in the 769 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:42,440 Speaker 1: soft tissues of the neck. That's an indication that someone 770 00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,720 Speaker 1: has applied direct pressure downward as opposed to acutely upward. 771 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:51,120 Speaker 1: In the pattern would not match. And so you've got 772 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,760 Speaker 1: these two things that are staring at you you're trying 773 00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,440 Speaker 1: to make heads or tails of And that's one of 774 00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:00,200 Speaker 1: the big indicators that we look for specifically in this area. 775 00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,080 Speaker 1: There are other things you look for in stage suicide, 776 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,239 Speaker 1: but specifically in this area, this is one of the 777 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,759 Speaker 1: things that you look for to try to determine if 778 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,120 Speaker 1: an event was staged or not. One of the other issues, 779 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,040 Speaker 1: Joe that came up in looking at this being staged. 780 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:18,279 Speaker 1: Let me say now that Emily's husband, Matthew Moore was 781 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:23,480 Speaker 1: arrested and charged with Emily's death, and one of the 782 00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:29,640 Speaker 1: facts that came into play was that Moore's son Joey, 783 00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:35,440 Speaker 1: committed suicide be hung himself. Yeah, and that you know, 784 00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:39,960 Speaker 1: certainly as an investigator that you have to look into that. Okay, 785 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,600 Speaker 1: that's something you're gonna have to dig into because once 786 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:49,040 Speaker 1: you have an individual in a family and listen, understand 787 00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:52,040 Speaker 1: this very important point here, many times you will have 788 00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:58,880 Speaker 1: copycat events in families where they's suicide or history of suicide. 789 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,799 Speaker 1: People will witness this happened in their family and then 790 00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,560 Speaker 1: they'll fall suit. Okay, and I think that that's the 791 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:07,680 Speaker 1: first thing you're going to check off, you know, check 792 00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:09,640 Speaker 1: off the list Who're gonna look at this and say, well, 793 00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:11,800 Speaker 1: is there any indication here? You have to explore that 794 00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,400 Speaker 1: as an investigator, you have to look into that and say, well, 795 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,560 Speaker 1: is there any similarity here between what has happened to 796 00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:25,160 Speaker 1: Emily and compare that with what happened to Matt's son, Joey. 797 00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:29,239 Speaker 1: You know, many months before when he died, and you know, 798 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,760 Speaker 1: according to the press, you know, Joey had a tremendous 799 00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:37,520 Speaker 1: amount of psychological illness that he was dealing with. And 800 00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,720 Speaker 1: you know what kind of really makes this quite quite 801 00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,839 Speaker 1: sad is the fact that Emily loved this kid. He 802 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:48,320 Speaker 1: became part of her family. From what we are understanding, 803 00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,959 Speaker 1: Emily took over quite a bit of the parental role 804 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:56,400 Speaker 1: in Joey's life. I mean, he was really debilitated psychologically, 805 00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,839 Speaker 1: and she would tend to him, she would watch after him, 806 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,520 Speaker 1: and really apparently loved him deeply. And so you could 807 00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:07,920 Speaker 1: see how his death would impact someone. And not only that, 808 00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,319 Speaker 1: but you begin to look at Emily's history as well, 809 00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:14,480 Speaker 1: and you know that her first husband, who people have 810 00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,640 Speaker 1: stated that she regarded as the love of her life, 811 00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:19,719 Speaker 1: he had taken his life. There are not a lot 812 00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:23,040 Speaker 1: of specifics as to how that first husband took his life, 813 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,239 Speaker 1: but her life's been touched. I mean, it's certainly been 814 00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,080 Speaker 1: touched by suicide like many of us you know that 815 00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,080 Speaker 1: are out there in public, but in hers in particular, 816 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,600 Speaker 1: two people that she truly cared for had lost their lives, 817 00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:39,319 Speaker 1: and as investigators, as unpleasant as it is, you have 818 00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:42,439 Speaker 1: to exhaust every possibility because at the end of the day, 819 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,960 Speaker 1: you want to look at these cases and make sure 820 00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:49,399 Speaker 1: that not only are they thoroughly investigated, but if there 821 00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:54,640 Speaker 1: is evidence, they are thoroughly prosecuted as well. Matthew Moore 822 00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:59,000 Speaker 1: has been arrested and charged with Emily's death, although let 823 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,040 Speaker 1: us do point out this case has not yet been adjudicated, 824 00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:09,560 Speaker 1: and everyone who's innocent until proven guilty. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, 825 00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,160 Speaker 1: and this is body Backs