1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: This episode contains graphic descriptions of crime scene details involving 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: sexual violence and murder. It also deals with suicide. Listener 3 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: discretion is advised if you or someone you know is 4 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: having thoughts of suicide, call her text nine to eight 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: eight to reach the suicide and Crisis lifeline. 6 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety six, a fifteen year old girl was raped, drowned, 7 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 2: and left for dead along the banks of the Gallatin River. 8 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 2: Her murderer turned out to be a hunter and a 9 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 2: BLM biologist. He was brought to justice nearly thirty years later, 10 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 2: but not in the way that anyone expected. That's next 11 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 2: on Blood Trails. How well do you know the people 12 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: you hunt with? You know their names, what they do, 13 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 2: where they live. If you went with family, you know 14 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 2: a whole lot more. But when you venture into the 15 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 2: wilderness to spend days, sometimes weeks alone with another person, 16 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 2: do you ever wonder do I really know this guy? 17 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 3: I think they just thought he was a pretty normal dude. 18 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:19,839 Speaker 4: We thought he was a kind of a quirky guy. 19 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 5: But he was ex military and had a fisheries bo 20 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 5: just wildlife ball, just background, so we just always thought 21 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 5: he was kind of a different guy. 22 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 6: We went way back out in the mountains by ourselves. 23 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,199 Speaker 6: I didn't have any clue where we were and spent 24 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 6: the whole day and it was horrible. 25 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 7: It was the worst day ever. 26 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:43,479 Speaker 3: He was so mean. 27 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 8: I shot my first year ever with him when I 28 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 8: was nine years old, and I mean, he's always was 29 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 8: always there, and he was always the person who pushed 30 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 8: me to get more involved with the outdoor activities. 31 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 9: Nobody had any idea, And thinking back on it, I 32 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 9: remembered that he had been kind of reserved and stuff 33 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 9: been like, yeah, I couldn't think of anything that I 34 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 9: was never like uncomfortable. 35 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 2: The voices you just heard are the relatives, coworkers and 36 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 2: hunting partners of a man named Paul Hutchinson. Hutchinson was 37 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 2: born in New Hampshire in nineteen sixty nine, but moved 38 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 2: out to Montana in the late nineties to attend Montana 39 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 2: State University. He earned a degree in fishery science and 40 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 2: enjoyed a long and award winning career as a biologist 41 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 2: with the Bureau of Land Management. He had a wife, 42 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 2: two kids, and a house in Dylan, Montana. He was 43 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 2: also a big time outdoorsman. He hunted elk, mule deer, 44 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 2: bighorn sheep, and waterfowl, but most of all, he loved turkeys. 45 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 2: He traveled to twenty states chasing gobblers, and he aimed 46 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: to kill a turkey in all forty nine states where 47 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 2: they live. 48 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 4: Most of Hutchinson's. 49 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 2: Social media accounts no longer exist, but his son posted 50 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 2: a video in twenty twenty of Hutchinson calling to a 51 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 2: group of turkeys from his truck. From the outside, he 52 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 2: seemed like a normal guy, maybe a little off putting 53 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: at times, maybe a little arrogant, but on the whole, 54 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 2: not a bad dude to go hunting with. Then last year, 55 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 2: that facade came crashing down night. 56 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 6: After nearly three decades, a cold case murder in Gallatin 57 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 6: County is closed. 58 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 10: In nineteen ninety six, fifteen year old Danny Houchins disappeared 59 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 10: after going for a walk by a river. 60 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: Hours later, her body was found in a swampy area. 61 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 6: Forensic evidence has determined Paul Hutchinson murdered Daniel Howchins at 62 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 6: the Cameron Bridge fishing access. 63 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 2: Hutchinson was accused of raping and murdering a fifteen year 64 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 2: old girl in a community just down the road from 65 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 2: where he lived worked and raised a family. Investigators used 66 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 2: cutting edge forensic technology to pin him for the crime, 67 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,839 Speaker 2: and they confronted him in a high pressure interview you'll 68 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 2: hear at the end of this episode. The story rocked 69 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 2: the small town of Dylan. Hutchinson's family, friends, coworkers, and 70 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 2: hunting buddies ask themselves how they missed the giant, festering 71 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 2: atrocity in Paul Hutchinson's past. How could a person so 72 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 2: outwardly normal be capable of something so evil? Who was 73 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 2: Paul Hutchinson? How did he escape detection for so long? 74 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 2: Was anyone else in on his secret? And do his 75 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 2: family and friends believe he did what he's been accused 76 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 2: of doing. 77 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 3: I don't think any of us know what happened. 78 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 8: Obviously, something really terrible and provable happened, and there's no 79 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 8: like denying it or justifying it or rationalizing it. It's 80 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 8: completely crazy. I mean, you hear about the stuff on TV. 81 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 8: You never think you're going to be on the villain 82 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 8: side of the story. 83 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 2: And that story might not be over. Hutchinson traveled the 84 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 2: country hunting turkeys, and now investigators are wondering if he 85 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 2: used those trips to commit other crimes. Is it possible 86 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 2: someone could rape a fifteen year old girl, kill her 87 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 2: and then go on to live a crime free life. 88 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 2: Right now, no one knows for sure, but still it 89 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 2: makes you wonder what else could be hiding in the 90 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 2: hearts of those we think we know best. On Jordan 91 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 2: Siller's and this is blood Trails a Monster among Us 92 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 2: Part one Danny. On September twenty first to nineteen ninety six, 93 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 2: Danielle Houchens needed to clear her head. She'd had a 94 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: disagreement with her parents, as fifteen year olds tend to do, so, 95 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 2: she asked her mom if she could drive down to 96 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 2: the Cameron Bridge Fishing Access site just outside of Belgrade, Montana. 97 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 2: Danny had recently earned her driver's license, so it was 98 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 2: a quick ten minute ride in her truck. It was 99 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 2: peaceful down by the banks of the Gallatin River, and 100 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 2: she'd been there before with friends and family. Stephanie, her 101 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 2: younger sister, was twelve years old at the time. Her 102 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 2: memory of Danny is colored by the genuine admiration most 103 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: girls have for their older teenage sister. 104 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: She was my hero. 105 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 10: She was cool and tough, you know she. It was 106 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 10: the grunge era, and it was the nineties, and like 107 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 10: she wore cool, baggy flannels and listened to awesome music 108 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 10: like Pearl Jam and Dirvana and all this angsty, you 109 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 10: know kind of music. And so there was that cool factor, 110 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 10: and she was adventurous and you know, seemingly unafraid to 111 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 10: do things. But she excelled in a lot other ways too. 112 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 10: She was very, very very smart and did really well 113 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 10: in school. But she wasn't just studious smart. She had 114 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 10: this really dry sense of humor and sarcasm that she 115 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 10: would point to the people around her, but would also 116 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 10: like turn that on herself and be sarcastic and self 117 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 10: deprecating their humor. You know, just kind of that hilarious, snarky, sassy, 118 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 10: angsty fifteen year old girl. 119 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 2: In the nineties, the Houchins didn't do much hunting and fishing, 120 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 2: but they did pretty much everything else in the outdoors. 121 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 2: They especially liked to skip. Stephanie's parents were both ski 122 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 2: patrollers in Big Sky, Montana, and Stephanie remembers doing everything 123 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 2: she could to keep up with her older sister on 124 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 2: the slopes. 125 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 10: She was always the person I looked up to on 126 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 10: anything that we were doing as a family, and so 127 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 10: there was that innat desire to be like her, to 128 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 10: be able to accomplish the kinds of things that she 129 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 10: was able to accomplish, to push myself to be tougher, 130 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 10: whether it be on the mountain in the winter time, 131 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 10: or up hiking and kind of pushing through that last 132 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 10: mile of the tree trail before you got to the top, 133 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 10: or whatever it was that we were doing out in 134 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 10: the woods. She was my motivator to be able to 135 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 10: continue doing that when it sucked right and when I'm 136 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 10: like a little kid and want to give up. And 137 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 10: so it sounds too simple to say that she was 138 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 10: my hero, but she was my hero because she was 139 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 10: my older sister, and everything I measured myself against was 140 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 10: measuring towards her. 141 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,719 Speaker 2: That Saturday in nineteen ninety six, the town of Belgrade 142 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 2: was celebrating a yearly fall festival. The festivities were taking 143 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 2: place right across the street from the Houchin's home, and 144 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 2: Stephanie was there at the park playing with her friends. 145 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 10: And I remember my dad coming over to the park 146 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:53,079 Speaker 10: and telling me that Danny was missing, and that you know, 147 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 10: they were going to try to look for her, but 148 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 10: that she was missing and I needed to come home 149 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 10: and so I I kind of ran back home. 150 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,839 Speaker 2: Danny had left that morning, so when she didn't come 151 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 2: home by the early afternoon, her parents started to become concerned. 152 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 2: But that concern turned to panic when Stephanie's mom drove 153 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 2: down to the Cameron Park Bridge and found Danny's truck 154 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 2: but no sign of. 155 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 10: Danny, and then pretty quickly there found her keys and 156 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 10: water bottle on a trail leading back into kind of 157 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 10: the marshy area of that fishing access. That was really 158 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:37,839 Speaker 10: I think what set off all the explosive worry for 159 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 10: my mom. 160 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 2: Stephanie's mom called Danny's name and looked around the fishing 161 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 2: access site, but still she couldn't find her. That's when 162 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 2: she called her husband and they recruited family and friends 163 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 2: to start the search. Stephanie remembers driving around town with 164 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 2: a photo of Danny, asking if anyone had seen her sister. 165 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 10: My friend's mom drove me around and I went to 166 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 10: the different bars, restaurants in Belgrade gas stations. I went 167 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 10: to the high school girls' basketball game and just asked 168 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 10: folks if they had seen her and tried to create 169 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 10: some awareness. I guess it was kind of really all 170 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 10: hands on. 171 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 2: Deck that day, finding Danny's truck and keys convinced law 172 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 2: enforcement that something had happened to the fifteen year old girl. 173 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 2: The Galatin County Sheriff's office scoured the swampy area near 174 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 2: the fishing access until it got too dark. They didn't 175 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 2: find anything, but two brothers who were friends of the 176 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 2: family kept searching. They noticed a footprint and a broken 177 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 2: cattail the searchers had missed and followed the trail over 178 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 2: a creek until they saw what they at first thought 179 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 2: was a dead deer lying in the mud. 180 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 10: And then I was home that night after Danny's body 181 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 10: was found, and I heard my dad tell my mom 182 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 10: that she had died. 183 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,479 Speaker 4: Part two. The crime scene. 184 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 2: Danny's body was found face down in about eight inches 185 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 2: of muddy water. Her body had been dragged twenty feet 186 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 2: and her watch had been pulled over her hand. One 187 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 2: of her sandals was missing, but she was still wearing 188 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 2: a leg brace due to recently torn ligaments. 189 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 4: In her knee. 190 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 2: That brace and that injury, would have made it more 191 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 2: difficult to run away. Her face was scratched and bruised, 192 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 2: and the bruising on the back of her neck indicated 193 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 2: that her head had been forcefully held under the mud. 194 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 2: Even more disturbingly, if that's possible, her bra had been 195 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 2: rolled under her shirt and her underwear had been pulled down. 196 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 2: Later analysis found seamen and male hairs in her underwear 197 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 2: and in her genitals, along with mud in her lungs. 198 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 2: All of this was found and recorded by the sheriff's 199 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 2: and the medical examiner, and yet, for reasons that remain unclear, 200 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 2: coroner Robert Myers did not rule Danny's death as a homicide. 201 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 2: The death certificate lists the cause of death as drowning, 202 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 2: but in a box where Myers was supposed to describe 203 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 2: how the injury occurred, he simply wrote undetermined. In fact, 204 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 2: according to Stephanie, investigators told the Houchens that their daughter 205 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 2: may have drowned accidentally. Stephanie wouldn't see the case file 206 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 2: until twenty years later, but even in the days and 207 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 2: months following Danny's death, they questioned whether the sheriff was 208 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 2: being honest with them. 209 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 10: It never made sense what law enforcement was saying to us. 210 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 10: How could she have just gone down there and accidentally died, 211 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 10: How could there have been no marks on her? How 212 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 10: could this just be such a mystery and I think 213 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 10: that they had all of that really innate guts to 214 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 10: suspicions that what they were being told couldn't possibly be accurate. 215 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 2: The sheriff at the time was a man named Bill Slaughter. 216 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 2: He has admitted to not telling the family everything about 217 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 2: their daughter's death, but he has denied lying to them. 218 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 2: It's sometimes important to withhold information to protect the integrity 219 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 2: of an investigation, and the Houchens aren't the only family 220 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 2: to be frustrated by a lack of information from law enforcement. 221 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 2: It's also true that in the months following Danny's death, 222 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 2: Slaughter told local media that he was investigating her death 223 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 2: as a homicide. In a nineteen ninety seven article published 224 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 2: in the Bozeman Daily Chronicle, he said, quote, We've always 225 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 2: worked it as a homicide. He reiterated that position to 226 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 2: the Montana Free Press in twenty twenty four and said 227 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 2: he was frustrated the coroner and medical examiner listed the 228 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 2: cause of death as undetermined, But in that same article 229 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 2: from nineteen ninety seven, Slaughter also claimed that the evidence 230 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 2: was not quote conclusive. What's more, Gallatin County Coroner Rob 231 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 2: Myers told the media things at the time that contradicted 232 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 2: the actual reports. Meyers said there was no visible bruising 233 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 2: to indicate that Danny had been held under the water. 234 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 2: He also said there were no signs of a struggle, 235 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 2: even though she did have what appeared to be defensive 236 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 2: wounds on her hands. Slaughter also suggested that they hadn't 237 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 2: collected any foreign hairs from Danny's body, but that wasn't 238 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 2: true either. They had collected four hairs that didn't belong 239 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 2: to Danny, which would end up being crucial pieces of 240 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 2: evidence in identifying her killer. The decision not to list 241 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 2: Danny's death as a homicide or tell the family anything 242 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 2: about her sexual assault had far reaching effects both on 243 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 2: the investigation of the case and the Houchin's family. 244 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 10: It's pretty likely that family members who suddenly lose such 245 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 10: someone to murder, and then you add in a complexity 246 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 10: of learning leader that there was a sexual assault incorporated 247 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 10: into that penus crime probably deal with a lot of 248 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 10: very real trauma throughout their entire lives. 249 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 2: Once Stephanie began looking into her sister's case, the decision 250 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 2: by the coroner to not list Danny's death as a 251 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 2: homicide made it impossible for Stephanie to enter Danny's case 252 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 2: into cold case databases. It also, she believes, solidified the 253 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 2: notion that Danny's death wasn't worth investigating seriously. 254 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 10: The failure in nineteen ninety six sat up, in my opinion, 255 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 10: a culture of not taking her case seriously in the 256 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 10: Sheriff's office, because they listed undetermined on her death certificate. 257 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 4: Part three the investigation. 258 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 2: The Sheriff's department did continue to investigate Danny's case. Former 259 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 2: detective Cindy Botek began reinvestigating the murder in the early 260 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 2: two thousands when she joined the detective squad, and I've 261 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 2: been told she took the case file out on a 262 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 2: regular basis to see if she'd missed anything. She told 263 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 2: the Montana Free Press that the mud in Danny's lungs 264 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 2: proved the teen didn't drown in an accident, and she 265 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 2: was as frustrated as anyone about the lack of progress 266 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 2: in the case. But the fact is, for any detective, 267 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 2: it's tough to justify spending your very limited time and 268 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 2: resources on a cold case when there are active investigations 269 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 2: in the here and now. So the case remained cold 270 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 2: until twenty nineteen, when Stephanie decided it was time she 271 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 2: found out what happened to her sister. 272 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 10: Many times over five years, you know, kind of repeated 273 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 10: this mantra to my sister, like I'm coming for you, Danny, 274 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 10: I'm coming for you, Like no, we have not forgotten you, 275 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 10: and I'm coming and I will not give up until 276 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 10: I do this for you. 277 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 4: At first, she hit a brick wall. 278 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 2: The Gallatin County Deputies assured her they were working on 279 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 2: the case, but told her they couldn't release any information 280 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 2: about an active investigation. But she didn't give up, and 281 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 2: eventually her persistence earned her a call from Sergeant Matt Boxmeyer. 282 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 2: Boxmeyer was in charge of Danny's case, and he told 283 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 2: her he planned to review and digitize the entire case file. 284 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: That was the turning point for me. 285 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,959 Speaker 10: I was like, okay, jumping in head first, let's go, 286 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 10: because I thought I was going to have to work 287 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 10: a lot harder to get collaboration. And I was pretty 288 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 10: excited when I heard from Matt. 289 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 2: The sheriff at the time, Brian Goodkin, worked with Stephanie 290 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 2: in the County Attorney's office to get approval for Stephanie 291 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:52,439 Speaker 2: to see that file. That experience, Stephanie says, was both 292 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 2: heartbreaking and. 293 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 10: Infuriating looking at her case file and looking at autopsy 294 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 10: photos and crime scene photos, and she and I look 295 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 10: a lot alike, and that was really terrible having to 296 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 10: do that. What happened to my sister was so much 297 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 10: worse than anyone had ever shared with us, and so 298 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 10: all my worst suspicions about the way her life ended 299 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 10: and what she endured leading up to her death and 300 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 10: then what killed her was awful. Awful. 301 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,640 Speaker 2: Stephanie and Sergeant Boxmeyer stayed in touch over the next 302 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 2: few years, but the case didn't really get off the 303 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 2: ground until Tom Elfmont came on the scene. 304 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 11: Once I sat down with the sheriff and they told 305 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 11: me about the case and that it was this really 306 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 11: wonderful fifteen year old girl who basically got ambushed out 307 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 11: at the Gallatin River, I said, you know, it's a 308 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 11: case I definitely would be very interested in investigating. 309 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 2: Tom had been a captain with the Los Angeles Police Department, 310 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 2: but he had since retired and moved to Montana. Dan Springer, 311 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 2: who'd been elected as Gallatin County Sheriff in twenty twenty one, 312 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 2: had been reaching out to his contacts for someone who 313 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 2: might be able to help with Danny's case. He'd heard 314 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,400 Speaker 2: about Tom through a network of retired LAPD officers, and 315 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 2: Tom agreed. 316 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 4: To work the case free of charge. 317 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 2: He began his investigation by reading the case file and 318 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 2: familiarizing himself with witness testimony and available evidence. I asked 319 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 2: him if he agrees with Stephanie's assessment that the crime 320 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 2: scene evidence clearly pointed to rape and murder. 321 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 4: She didn't drown. 322 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,880 Speaker 11: She was actually suffocated to death while he held her 323 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 11: head down, and she had small contusions on the back 324 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 11: of her head and also the front of her head, 325 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 11: so it was clear to me it was a clear 326 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 11: cut homicide from day one. 327 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 2: Next, Tom conducts did his own interviews of the various 328 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 2: parties involved. He ruled out the brothers who found Danny's body, 329 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 2: as well as another potential suspect investigators had identified in 330 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 2: twenty ten. He didn't believe any of these men were 331 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 2: capable of this crime, so he turned his attention to 332 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 2: the physical evidence that had been collected at the scene. 333 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 2: He started with a semen that had been found in 334 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 2: Danny's underwear. A DNA profile had never been extracted from 335 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 2: that semen, partly because the Montana State Crime Lab is 336 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 2: underfunded and partly because the underwear had been misfiled in 337 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 2: the archives. 338 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 11: So I actually drove up to the lab and I 339 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 11: met with the people at the lab and I said, look, 340 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 11: you have to test the saman and you have to 341 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 11: get a DNA profile. 342 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 2: Previous investigators had asked the lab to conduct that testing, 343 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 2: but it had never been completed. But this time, thanks 344 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 2: to Tom's efforts, the DNA profile was done and submitted 345 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 2: to the FBI's DNA database. If Danny's killer had committed 346 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 2: a felony since about the year two thousand, it would 347 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 2: pop up in that system. But nothing appeared, and the 348 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,679 Speaker 2: genetic information wasn't robust enough to complete another kind of 349 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 2: advanced genetic analysis, the same kind of analysis that had 350 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 2: caught the Golden Gate killer in twenty eighteen, a case 351 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 2: that had inspired Stephanie to begin the hunt for Danny's murderer. 352 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 2: By now, you've probably heard of forensic genetic genealogy. If 353 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 2: you haven't, the concept is actually simpler than it sounds. 354 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 2: If you're trying to identify someone from a DNA sample, 355 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 2: but that information isn't in any law enforcement databases, you 356 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 2: can look for relatives of the person you're trying to 357 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 2: find in one of those genetic testing services like twenty 358 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 2: three and meters or ancestry dot com. If you can find, 359 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 2: say the cousin or the father of the suspect, you 360 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 2: can narrow down the search to people related to those 361 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 2: cousins or fathers who were in the area around the 362 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 2: time the crime was committed. The semen wasn't enough to 363 00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 2: do this analysis, but fortunately that was a the only 364 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 2: physical evidence collected. 365 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 11: In all the evidence that they had from twenty eight 366 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:10,159 Speaker 11: years ago, there were four hairs, and the four hairs 367 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 11: were actually preserved fairly well. 368 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 2: Tom got in touch with an expert in forensic DNA 369 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 2: analysis who connected him with a lab called Astria Forensics 370 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 2: in San Francisco. According to Tom, this is the only 371 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 2: lab in the country that can extract enough genetic material 372 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 2: from a hair to perform genetic genealogy. This technology is 373 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 2: so new that it didn't even exist just a few 374 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 2: years ago. He sent the first two hairs to Astria, 375 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 2: but they were too degraded to extract a DNA sequence. 376 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,199 Speaker 2: Tom only had two hairs left. If those didn't produce 377 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 2: the results he was looking for, he'd have exhausted the 378 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 2: best evidence from the crime scene. 379 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 11: I submitted the third and fourth hairs, and with the 380 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 11: third and fourth hairs on the fourth hair, they got 381 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 11: a lot of DNA and it was only the seventh 382 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 11: case in the United States involving a hare and DNA 383 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 11: that was solved with. 384 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 4: A DNA profile in hands. 385 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 2: Tom then went to one of the best genetic genealogists 386 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 2: in the country, a woman named C. C. Moore, whose 387 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 2: website calls her the DNA Detective. She was able to 388 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 2: find two brothers and a first cousin who were related 389 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 2: to the DNA that came from the hares. These brothers 390 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 2: and cousin were from New Hampshire, but Tom discovered that 391 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 2: one of the brothers had moved to Bozeman, Montana, a 392 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 2: month before Danny was killed. 393 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 11: So then we knew he was in the area where 394 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 11: the crime occurred, and then we zeroed in on him. 395 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 2: The man they identified was Paul Hutchinson, a fifty five 396 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 2: year old fisheries biologist with the Bureau of Land Management. 397 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,640 Speaker 2: Stephanie was given Hutchinson's name long before it was announced 398 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,239 Speaker 2: to the public. I asked her what it was like 399 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 2: after five years of searching and nearly thirty years of 400 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 2: wondering to finally put a name and a face to 401 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 2: the man who killed her sister. 402 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 10: Man, it was a pretty complex feelings. 403 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: It was relieving. 404 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 10: And knowing that we were going to solve this. 405 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 3: It was. 406 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 10: A validation that we were about to go have years 407 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 10: of a court battle ahead of us. But it was 408 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 10: also really weird knowing that that person, who is truly 409 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 10: a monster in my eyes, had like like I could 410 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 10: look him up online, and he had a life and 411 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 10: he had a career, and that introduces all sorts of weird, 412 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 10: just things to wrap your head around that I was 413 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 10: not ready for. But at the end of the day, 414 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 10: I knew that I had done everything I could for 415 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 10: my sister and that we were going to be successful 416 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 10: finally finding justice for her murder. 417 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 2: After the break, Tom catches up with Hutchinson at the 418 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 2: BLM Field office in Dylan and we hear the voice 419 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 2: of Danny's killer. Does he admit to knowing Danny or 420 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 2: being in the area, how does he react to seeing 421 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 2: Danny's face in a photograph, and what is Hutchinson's next 422 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 2: move After being confronted about his crime for the first 423 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 2: time in nearly thirty years. That's next on Blood Trails, 424 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 2: Part four the interview. At this point, Tom knew he 425 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 2: had to tread carefully. The DNA evidence was convincing, and 426 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 2: it would become even more convincing once they compared the 427 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 2: hair on Danny's body with a current sample from Hutchinson. 428 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 2: But even with that forensic evidence, the case would be 429 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 2: difficult to prosecute. 430 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 11: The first thing a defense attorney would have said, is okay, 431 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 11: your honor. For twenty seven years, this woman's death was 432 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 11: listed as an accident. Why are we here charging my 433 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 11: client with murder? Tom wanted to sit down with Hutchinson 434 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 11: and ask him questions about where he was and what 435 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 11: he was doing in nineteen ninety six. If he had 436 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 11: those kinds of statements, along with the physical evidence, prosecutors 437 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 11: would have an easier time convicting him. I really wanted 438 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 11: him to either lie to us or tell us things 439 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 11: about where he was, because you know, he could have 440 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 11: always used the. 441 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 4: Alibi that a lot of criminals use. 442 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,679 Speaker 11: Well, I met her there and we had sex, but 443 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 11: when I left, she was fine, and I didn't want 444 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 11: him to have any kind of an alibi. 445 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 2: Tom also knew that if he conducted a formal interview 446 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 2: with Hutchinson about Danny's case, he would have to read 447 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 2: Hutchinson his Miranda rights, and Tom's experience when a suspect 448 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 2: is read his miranda rights, he almost always clams up 449 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 2: and asks for a lawyer. So Tom consulted with a 450 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 2: criminal attorney to develop a plan that would let Tom 451 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,360 Speaker 2: interview Hutchinson without reading him his rights. 452 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 11: It was agreed that if I could interview him in 453 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 11: a public place where he could get up and just 454 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 11: walk away any time he wasn't under arrest, he was 455 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 11: free to go. That would be okay with the courts 456 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 11: in Montana and the federal courts. 457 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 2: Tom and another volunteer investigator, Sergeant court de Puigue, of 458 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 2: the Newport Beach Police, approached Hutchinson as he was getting 459 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 2: out of his truck in the parking lot of the 460 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,640 Speaker 2: Dylan Blm Field office. Normally, we would have to rely 461 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 2: on Tom's account and police statements to learn about what 462 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 2: happened next, but Sergeant Dupuige was carrying a camera and 463 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 2: we were able to obtain the footage. 464 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 3: Hey, Paul, how you doing good? Good? 465 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 7: My name's Tom Elfmont. 466 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 11: Well, you've got your hands full, so that's okay. I'll 467 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 11: just give you a touch there with the Gallatin. 468 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 3: County Sheriff's Office. 469 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 11: Uh huh, guess, and we wanted to talk to you. 470 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 3: We've been asking around. 471 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 11: We were over in Ennis and we've been talking to 472 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 11: some fisheries people about some things that have been going 473 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 11: on here at the rivers in southwest Montana. 474 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 2: Well, Tom didn't tell Paul the real reason they wanted 475 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 2: to talk to him. He was concerned that if he 476 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 2: did that, Paul would end the interview then and there. 477 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 2: So as a pretext for speaking with Hutchinson, Tom found 478 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 2: other cases of women who have been found dead along 479 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 2: rivers in Montana. He and Sergeant to Pwig told Hutchinson 480 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 2: that as a fisheries biologist who spent a lot of 481 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 2: time on the river, he would have valuable insight into 482 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 2: these cases. 483 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 7: We're working a couple of vescations involving the water and 484 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 7: your name came up as somebody that's been around a 485 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 7: long time that that could probably help us. We gotta 486 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 7: we got a we got a couple of names. You 487 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 7: might even know these guys, but we when we asked BLM, 488 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 7: obviously you guys were working the waterways all the time, 489 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 7: they said, Hey, these guys have been around forever. They 490 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 7: know they know the inside, inside out of everything that's 491 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 7: going on. So but that's why, that's why we're I'll 492 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 7: talking to you today. So appreciate you sitting down with 493 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 7: us to help. 494 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 2: Paul doesn't seem overly nervous in the initial minutes of 495 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 2: the interview. When Sergeant Apuigue asked to use the restroom, 496 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 2: Paul takes out his phone and sends a message to 497 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 2: one of his texts. While fielding questions from Tom about 498 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 2: his time at Montana State University, I went. 499 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 5: To school in New Hampshire for a year. That was 500 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 5: a terrible student in high school. I was really lazy, 501 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 5: and then you know, military straightened j out. 502 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I. 503 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 5: Applied to Idaho, Wyoming, Montana over again. I got accepted 504 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 5: all of them. And I think it was a cost benefit. 505 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 5: M s U was had a good program and it 506 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 5: wasn't stupid expensive. 507 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 2: This might seem like mundane small talk, but remember the 508 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 2: investigators believed that Paul killed Danny during his first year 509 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 2: at Montana State, and Tom and Sergeant de Puigue are 510 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 2: trying to get more information about that time or catch 511 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 2: Paul in a lie. 512 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 7: So you went to Montana and that was for how 513 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 7: many years of school did you have to go to between? 514 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 3: Oh? 515 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 7: Really? And then what year did you start there? 516 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 3: Ninety five? I think ninety six. 517 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 7: Ninety five, somewhere around there. 518 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 3: N ninety six, thinks ninety six. 519 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 7: Do you think about nineteen ninety six? Okay? Do you 520 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 7: do you remember when in ninety six that you came 521 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 7: to Montana? 522 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 3: I don't. I mean, did you start the fall semester? Yes? 523 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 7: Okay, so maybe August September, probably earlier than that, okay. 524 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 7: And then did you was that your first femine in Montana? 525 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 3: Yes? 526 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 7: Okay, perfect. Yeah. 527 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 2: Paul must have been wondering why these guys seem so 528 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 2: interested in his biography. They're over fifteen minutes into the 529 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 2: interview and Tom and the sergeant still haven't asked him 530 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 2: a question about one of their cases. But if he's 531 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 2: starting to get suspicious, he doesn't show it. He's leaning 532 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 2: back in his chair with his right leg crossed over 533 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 2: his left and pressing against the edge of the table. 534 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 2: When Tom or the sergeant asks him a question, he 535 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 2: looks at them and furrows his brow as he thinks 536 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 2: he puckers his mouth and moves it from side to side. 537 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 2: But when Sergeant Tapuige finally mentions young women being killed 538 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 2: near waterways, Paul's body language starts to change. 539 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 7: What we're looking into is we've had some deaths that 540 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 7: have popped up, females that have been popping up either 541 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 7: in the water or near water. And one of the 542 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 7: things is is the these cases are cold. Have you 543 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 7: ever heard that term before? And what we're trying to 544 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 7: do is stimulate him, is try to figure out, you know, 545 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 7: who may be responsible for him. 546 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 2: Obviously, Paul leans forward in his chair, arms folded, and 547 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 2: then immediately leans back. It's like he can't decide whether 548 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 2: to lean forward and look more closely at the images 549 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 2: in front of him, or lean back and act nonchalant. 550 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 2: It ends up looking like he was hit with a 551 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 2: small bolt of lightning. The sergeant shows Paul images of 552 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 2: two women who were killed along rivers in Montana, and 553 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 2: Paul says he doesn't recognize them at one point, pushing 554 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,239 Speaker 2: the pictures farther away from him on the desk. Then 555 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 2: Depuige poses the question they're really there to ask. 556 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 7: Okay, this is Daniel Houchins. She was she was killed 557 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 7: in September ninety six, and she was found off the 558 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 7: Gallatin River. Did you ever fish up there? 559 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 2: By this point, Paul had likely figured out what was 560 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 2: going on. Tom remembers noticing how difficult it was for 561 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,479 Speaker 2: the fisheries biologist to keep himself together. 562 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 11: I mean, he was profusely sweating. Clearly, he was unbelievably agitated. 563 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 2: Paul has a receding hairline, and even in the body 564 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 2: cam video you can see a sheen of moisture on 565 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 2: his forehead. 566 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 5: I h I trapped on the Gallatin, but never fished 567 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 5: the Allatan. Okay, I never fished. I don't fish the 568 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 5: big rivers. It's always the strange, yeah, the little the 569 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 5: backcountry stuff. 570 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 7: Okay, So and do you have you ever heard of 571 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 7: the Cameron Bridge Access? Have you been there before? 572 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 3: Probably? Jack graviit lane? 573 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly? Is that where you trap? 574 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 9: No? 575 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 3: I trapped over Alberta Angus. 576 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 7: I traveled back and forth, okay into a Loup right 577 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 7: around that time. And where you was this back in 578 00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 7: ninety six, ninety seven eight before you shut down here? 579 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 3: Oh? 580 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 5: Yeah, I trapped up until three years ago. So yeah, 581 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 5: I would have been in. 582 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,359 Speaker 7: That area then back in ninety six. 583 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 5: I don't know if I tropped the ninety six that 584 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 5: was my first year of college. 585 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 2: Again, this line of questioning isn't random. They're trying to 586 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,800 Speaker 2: get him to admit to being in the area around 587 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,799 Speaker 2: the time Danny was killed, and even though he equivocates 588 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,799 Speaker 2: a little, Tom believes his answer was close enough to 589 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 2: an admission. 590 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,439 Speaker 11: He admitted going out having trap lines out there, which 591 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 11: would have put him in the woods trapping whatever. He 592 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:43,760 Speaker 11: trapped bobcats, skunks, coyotes, and so he was creeping around 593 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,720 Speaker 11: the woods out there. So he put himself there, which 594 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 11: was a big deal. That was a really big deal. 595 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 2: As Paul's this comfort grows, he excuses himself from the 596 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,800 Speaker 2: room for a third time during the course of the interview, 597 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,280 Speaker 2: which had only lasted about thirty minutes. At that point, 598 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 2: he says one of his texts, it's his help, and 599 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 2: turns his phone towards the investigators to imply that he's 600 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 2: just received a text message. But as he does so, 601 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 2: you can see in the video that he's just opened 602 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 2: the on x app. Maybe he had a sudden urge 603 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 2: to do some online scouting, or maybe he wanted to 604 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 2: delete some pins he'd have trouble explaining if investigators were 605 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,279 Speaker 2: to find them, But when he returns and the interview continues, 606 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,840 Speaker 2: he tries to play things as cool as he can. 607 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 7: Going back to Cameron Bridge access and obviously Danny was 608 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:37,359 Speaker 7: killed in what she was found in September of ninety six. Danielle, Yeah, 609 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 7: houchinz Yeah, this one. Do you remember hearing about this 610 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 7: murder or anything about about that? I don't. 611 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 3: I mean I might have. 612 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,720 Speaker 7: It was a big case just because she was so young, 613 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 7: and obviously for Bozeman, that's that's big news, you know, 614 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:59,399 Speaker 7: especially in Montana. It wasn't common obviously back in the day. 615 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 7: I mean, do you remember this mayor or hearing her name? 616 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 3: I don't. I mean, what was that twenty thirty years ago? 617 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 2: The investigators pressed Paul on whether he knows any fishing 618 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 2: guides or local fishermen who might have been on the 619 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 2: Gallatin around the time Danny was killed. Paul reiterates multiple 620 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 2: times that he's not much of a fisherman, and even 621 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 2: though he is a big time outdoorsman, can't think of 622 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,360 Speaker 2: a single angler who might be able to help them. 623 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:33,880 Speaker 7: No, I'm saying, like any local fishermen back in the 624 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 7: day that you knew around Cameron Bridge that might have 625 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 7: information for us back in ninety six, remember night, he 626 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 7: SAIDs honestly, I don't. 627 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 2: I mean kind of Next Tom and the sergeant pressed 628 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 2: Paul Harder on his interactions with Danny. 629 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 7: Okay, and what about Danny Houches. Do you recognize that name? 630 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 3: I don't. 631 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 7: Indeed, do you know if you do, you remember do 632 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 7: you know her? 633 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 3: Was she in school when I went to school? 634 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 7: No, she was in she was over at Belgrade High 635 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 7: School when you were when you were in school, I 636 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 7: don't think as well. 637 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 3: I don't know where what circle I would have ran into. 638 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean she's a fifteen year old girl, That's 639 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 7: what I'm saying. 640 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. 641 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 7: So do you do you recall or does she look 642 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 7: familiar to you at all? 643 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 3: No, honestly, I don't recognize any of them. 644 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 5: But I mean if back then that would have been 645 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 5: what on the news of the newspapers. 646 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, that was a big I mean this, especially 647 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 7: this one because it was in Bozeman. Danny was would 648 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 7: hang out at the Cameron Bridge access road. Do you 649 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 7: remember seeing her there or a similar face? 650 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, I honestly don't. I mean, I probably. 651 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 5: I've been to a bunch of fishing access sites for 652 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 5: one reason or another. 653 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 3: I don't one of them. 654 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 7: She is, I mean, Danny does not look familiar. 655 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 3: To you at all. 656 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:08,279 Speaker 7: You don't know her? 657 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 2: No, I. 658 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 3: What's the last name, Houchins? Houchins? Does she have an 659 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:16,440 Speaker 3: older brother? 660 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 7: No? 661 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 3: No. 662 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 2: Paul maintains a baffled but concerned expression and shakes his 663 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 2: head and blinks a lot. The rest of the interview 664 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,360 Speaker 2: circles around the same kinds of topics. Paul eventually admits 665 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 2: that he may have tubed the Gallatin in nineteen ninety six, 666 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 2: but he delivers most of his answers with a shrug. 667 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 2: Tom and Sergeant to Pwiege never accuse him of anything directly, 668 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,399 Speaker 2: but they do come close, and at one point, Paul 669 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 2: almost asks the question that's likely been spinning around his 670 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 2: mind throughout the interview. 671 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 7: Is there any reason or do you think there's any 672 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 7: possibility that you could have been in the area when 673 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 7: this happened? Do you remember a girl screaming or anything 674 00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 7: like that? 675 00:38:58,760 --> 00:38:59,280 Speaker 3: I don't. 676 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,319 Speaker 7: Is there a possibility that you were there when she 677 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 7: was murdered? No, you don't remember any screaming or anything 678 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,319 Speaker 7: like that. You weren't trapping or anything during that. 679 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:15,360 Speaker 3: Time, not September that would have been Are you asking me? 680 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 7: I mean, I'm just asking if you remember anything all 681 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:24,759 Speaker 7: during that time. Don't no, nothing, okay. 682 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 2: When the interview concludes after a little more than an hour, 683 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 2: Paul seems relieved. He says he'll try to think of 684 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,400 Speaker 2: someone who might be able to help them, and promises 685 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,800 Speaker 2: to call Tom if he remembers anything that might be useful. 686 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 7: If there's something I haven't asked you that you think 687 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,440 Speaker 7: I should know this time, tell me now so that 688 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:43,840 Speaker 7: might be. 689 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:48,759 Speaker 3: More okay, Yeah, question ask grew So. 690 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 7: I mean it's what it's part of the job. 691 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,239 Speaker 3: But yeah, I feel free to call me too. 692 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,399 Speaker 7: Man, all right, thank you, thank you. 693 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,239 Speaker 2: Tom told me they weren't concerned that Paul would try 694 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,320 Speaker 2: to flee the country, but he still instructed detectives to 695 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,279 Speaker 2: follow their number one suspect. They wanted to keep track 696 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,279 Speaker 2: of him and see if where he went and what 697 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 2: he did might implicate him further. 698 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,359 Speaker 11: But Dylan was a very very small town. It's one 699 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,279 Speaker 11: way in, one way out, and it was just impossible, 700 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 11: and he was driving like a crazy man. So I 701 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,319 Speaker 11: told the surveillance people back off and just sit on 702 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,440 Speaker 11: the north side of town and the south side of 703 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 11: town and his house and just see where he comes 704 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 11: and goes. And that's what they did. 705 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 2: But whatever the plan was for the subsequent days and weeks, 706 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,320 Speaker 2: they never got the chance to put it into action. 707 00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,279 Speaker 11: And then around four point thirty in the morning, I 708 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,640 Speaker 11: got a phone call. They told me that he called 709 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 11: nine to one one and Dylan and he said officer 710 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 11: needs assist and hung up. 711 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 6: Just a day after their initial interview with Paul Hutchinson, 712 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 6: Sheriff Springer found out that Paul Hutchinson had died by suicide, 713 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 6: and he was dead. 714 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:08,040 Speaker 2: For most people, Hutchinson's reaction to being interviewed about Danny 715 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 2: is evidence enough of his guilt. But when they swabbed 716 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,480 Speaker 2: Hutchinson's cheek for DNA and compared it to the hair 717 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 2: they found on Danny's body, there was no doubt in 718 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 2: Tom's mind. 719 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 11: They turned it around really quickly and told us that 720 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:27,799 Speaker 11: it was ten point seven trillion to one that it 721 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,880 Speaker 11: was his DNA on Danny's panties. 722 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:33,520 Speaker 4: So we knew we got the right guy. 723 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,920 Speaker 2: I asked Stephanie how she felt when Tom called her 724 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,400 Speaker 2: and told her that the man who killed her sister 725 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 2: had committed suicide. 726 00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 10: My first thought was, you fucking coward, You fucking coward. 727 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:59,959 Speaker 10: I personally have had to put so much courage into 728 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 10: an effort for driving justice from my sister, And how 729 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 10: dare he decide that he gets to make that last choice? Unfathomable. 730 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:16,879 Speaker 1: I was so. 731 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 10: Just aghast at that reality. I felt like he a 732 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:36,399 Speaker 10: selfish and as terrible as this sounds, because it's not 733 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,240 Speaker 10: about It was never about me. It was always about 734 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 10: justice for my sister. But I was looking forward to 735 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,000 Speaker 10: staring his ass down in court, and I was looking 736 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:52,640 Speaker 10: forward to delivering a victim impact statement and to testifying 737 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,359 Speaker 10: about the investigation. And I was looking forward to all 738 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 10: of that, and he totally robbed that from me. 739 00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,239 Speaker 2: Well, never know what Paul was thinking when he shot 740 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,799 Speaker 2: himself with a thirty eight caliber Darryner pistol. He could 741 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,160 Speaker 2: have been thinking about what Sergeant du Puig told him 742 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,960 Speaker 2: that they'd found male DNA on Danny's body, and as 743 00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:18,120 Speaker 2: Tom said, modern technology had finally allowed them to unlock 744 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:19,120 Speaker 2: its secrets. 745 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:21,120 Speaker 7: With the recent. 746 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:29,080 Speaker 11: Improvements in DNA technology, I think we're getting to we're getting. 747 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,200 Speaker 7: To the point where at some point, we're going to 748 00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:37,399 Speaker 7: be able to I think, don't you agree, identify somebody. Yeah, yeah, 749 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 7: I think we're going to be able to identify somebody. 750 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,400 Speaker 2: Paul doesn't react to this beyond nodding his head. But 751 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,400 Speaker 2: at that point he must have known he was cooked. 752 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,080 Speaker 2: He knew he would likely go to prison or worse, 753 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:52,640 Speaker 2: and as Stephanie says, he couldn't face that prospect. But 754 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,440 Speaker 2: I also can't help but wonder if he was thinking 755 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,759 Speaker 2: about this exchange with Sergeant du Puig just before the 756 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,000 Speaker 2: close of the interview, and wondering how he could face 757 00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,480 Speaker 2: his own family when the world discovered what he'd done. 758 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,879 Speaker 7: They rocked this community. And obviously, you know, your dad, 759 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,279 Speaker 7: you would understand losing your daughter at fifteen, and you know, 760 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,200 Speaker 7: especially you know you have a girl who's who you know, 761 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,080 Speaker 7: I'll use an old school term innocent, right, and then 762 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:24,279 Speaker 7: somebody takes that innocence away and then murders her. I mean, 763 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,400 Speaker 7: as a dad, I mean, how would you feel, you 764 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,520 Speaker 7: know what I mean? I mean, you got a daughter, 765 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,799 Speaker 7: if that, if she was taking tomorrow by that, how 766 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 7: would you feel about that? 767 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:35,880 Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean, I mean who you didn't even say it? 768 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:37,120 Speaker 3: I mean you have kids. 769 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:41,160 Speaker 7: I do, yeah, I mean I'd be I'd be absolutely devastated. 770 00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,439 Speaker 7: I'd be pissed. I'd be pissed off to be honest 771 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:45,880 Speaker 7: with you, you know, and I want answers, and I 772 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,560 Speaker 7: want to know what man did that to my little girl. 773 00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,480 Speaker 7: I mean, whether she's eighteen, she's thirty, she's always going 774 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,960 Speaker 7: to be your little girl, right And that's what we're 775 00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 7: trying to answer for Danny's dad right now and her mom. 776 00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,480 Speaker 7: You know, who did that and why I did that? 777 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,319 Speaker 7: Just answer those questions. Why was it a mistake? Was 778 00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,359 Speaker 7: it you know, was this a one off? Why did 779 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,799 Speaker 7: this happen to her being you know, fifteen years old? 780 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:12,040 Speaker 3: Man? 781 00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:15,120 Speaker 7: You know, could you imagine I think an adult did it? 782 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:19,759 Speaker 7: And then for them to come in and absolutely just 783 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,440 Speaker 7: you know, you're you're sitting there as a dad thinking 784 00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:28,200 Speaker 7: my daughters. You know, it's probably screaming in his name, 785 00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,759 Speaker 7: you know, asking for dad's help. All if she wanted 786 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,880 Speaker 7: to probably do was go home to dad, you know, 787 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,280 Speaker 7: screaming for her dad to save her, and he couldn't 788 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,000 Speaker 7: be there, you know, And that as a dad, you 789 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,000 Speaker 7: know of daughters, and you and me are in the 790 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:40,680 Speaker 7: same position. 791 00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:43,480 Speaker 3: I mean, that just. 792 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:44,239 Speaker 7: Wrecks my heart out. 793 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,879 Speaker 2: Paul's suicide brought Tom's investigation to a close, but it's 794 00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,480 Speaker 2: hardly the end of the story. Once news got out 795 00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:57,319 Speaker 2: about what happened, journalists, podcasters, and television personalities descended on 796 00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,280 Speaker 2: Bozeman to try to figure out how a seemingly normal 797 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:04,000 Speaker 2: man could commit such a horrible atrocity and then hide 798 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,279 Speaker 2: it for nearly thirty years. They wanted to know who 799 00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,960 Speaker 2: Paul Hutchinson was, how his family and friends were processing 800 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:16,680 Speaker 2: the tragedy, and whether Danny was Paul's only victim. That's 801 00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:33,960 Speaker 2: next time on Blood Trails.