1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Love ladders, Love ladders to 2 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: Killer Dad Chris Watts. Yes, love letters. How do these 3 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: women they want to marry Chris Watts. He's behind bars 4 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: for life for murdering his two baby girls, his unboard son, 5 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: and his beautiful wife who was pregnant at the time. 6 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: Who wants to send him a love letter? Much? Let's 7 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: send sexy photos of yourself to him. Crime Stories with 8 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. It's not just love letters. They are spawning 9 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: a whole series of conspiracies as to who really murdered Shennan, 10 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: Bella and Cecie the real and baby Nico the real killer. 11 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: For those of you that don't remember, who could forget all? 12 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: You illegal legals know the case as well as we do. 13 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: Chris Watts, Killer Dad. Listen to my longtime friend Jim Murray. 14 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: At Inside Edition, the DA revealed gruesome new details about 15 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: the murders. Thirty three year old Watts strangled his wife. 16 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 1: It would have taken up to four minutes to end 17 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: her life. Then he smothered his two daughters. Four year 18 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: old Bella fought back as her dad was killing her. 19 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: Even more shocking, just hours after burying his wife and 20 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: dumping his daughter's bodies and oil tanks. He was back 21 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: with his coworkers, acting as if nothing had happened. What 22 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: kind of a sick freak is that? Of course those 23 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 1: are technical legal terms. I've got doctor Bethany Marshall on 24 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: with me, psychoanalysts to the stars, joining me out of 25 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: la and starving new hit series on Netflix, Bleeding Empire. 26 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: I doubt sick freak is in your DSM diagnostic What 27 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 1: is DS again? Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorder. 28 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 1: I hope that's your dog and not one of your patients. 29 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: That's not that's somebody else's. Okay, Yeah, right, it's your 30 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: imaginary dog. Okay, doctor Bethy Marshall. Aye to just kick 31 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: it off with you right there. But I can't believe 32 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: people are actually writing Chris Watt's love letters now, Joe 33 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, let me introduce everybody. Wendy Patteck with me, 34 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: former California prosecutor, author of Red Flags. She's a star 35 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: of Today with doctor Wendy k C b Q San Diego, 36 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, PhD dot com. Doctor Bethany Marshall, who I've 37 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: already attacked Cheryl McCullum, Founder, Director of the Cold Case 38 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: Research Institute, Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University. 39 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: Author Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, star of a 40 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: brand new series, The Piketon Massacre on iHeart It goes 41 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 1: on and on. Sheila Eisenberg joining me, the author of 42 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: Women Who Love Men Who Kill? Volume two. Yes, let 43 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: it sink in there that many women chasing convicted killers. Okay, 44 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: you can find that on Amazon or Sheila Isisenberg dot com. Okay, 45 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: where was I I was going? Oh, Joe Scott Morgan, 46 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: That's where I was. Joe Scott, could you just give 47 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: us all a little refresher on how these two little girls, 48 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: Bella and Celeste or quote D sleeved You know, these 49 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: two little babies, I welcome to the program. These two 50 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: little babies were taken and slid through what's referred to 51 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: as listen to this as a thief hatch, which is 52 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: a small opening on the top of this gigantic there's 53 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: two of them, gigantic all retention tanks out in the 54 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: middle of nowhere in Colorado. After they had been smothered, suffocated, 55 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: there were stuffed down in there and Nancy, let me 56 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: tell you that the d sleeving didn't just start with 57 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: a chemical compound in the bottom of this tank. It 58 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 1: started when their dad, I say that it makes me 59 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: sick to my back teeth, pushed their bodies through this 60 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: tiny little hole and it actually scraped their bodies. It 61 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 1: scraped them. It took off that top layer of skin 62 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 1: and the was finished when they nestled down into the 63 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: substance in the bottom. And this is caustic, Nancy, this 64 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 1: is the stuff that they make household cleaners with, and 65 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: it began to peel the skin off. They're already decommed 66 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: a dark DARKO. Wasn't that the name? Yeah, that's the 67 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 1: name of the oil company where he worked. This is 68 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: where he worked, right, Yeah it is. And of course 69 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: this guy has access to it, access an opportunity, right. 70 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 1: So let me understand, Let me get this in my mind, 71 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: and you can only imagine what I would go through 72 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 1: trying to get everything in my mind for a jury trial. 73 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: But I'm trying to imagine Chris Watts after he's already 74 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: murdered his pregnant wife, Shannan Oh by the way, he 75 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: had sex with her, then murdered her. Then one daughter 76 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: comes in and says, what's wrong with mommy? Well she 77 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: gets killed, but no, I think they were both alive. 78 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 1: As he was driving out to an a dark and 79 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: a darko oil field. And it's my mind, Joe Scott. 80 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 1: They're huge cylindrical containers. Why do I think that? Because 81 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: the opening I think is round and the opening is 82 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: only like ten inches twelve inches or so. And he 83 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: goes out there. He's got the dead body of his 84 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: wife in the car. The two little girls are alive. 85 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: He smothers one dead with a blanket, and the other 86 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: one says, are you gonna do to me what you 87 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: did to my sister? Don't, daddy, don't. He then smothers 88 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: the other child, Barry Channan in a shallow grape. She 89 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 1: has coughin birth, which means she gives birth to baby 90 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 1: Nico dead into her underwear. Then he crams one at 91 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: a time each little girl, Bella and Celeste cec down 92 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: into the container. But their shoulders are wider than the 93 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: top to the containers. They cram them down in. Now 94 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: you pick up. Yeah. Once they're in there, they're nestled 95 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: down into this caustic substance that's floating in the bottom 96 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: of the tank. You know, shenanis like you said, she's 97 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: buried in a shallow grave. But he took the time 98 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: to get on top of these things, and you have 99 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: to get on top of them to access this climb 100 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: the ladder with the bodies. You're thinking about this, or 101 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: he's forgive me, he's thinking about this. He has to 102 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: be as he's going up there. He's going there with 103 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: the purpose carrying the dead, bring his children, his babies, 104 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: his daughter, and he is depositing them down into this tank. Nancy. 105 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: It is absolutely beyond the pale of anything in this 106 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: case has probably affected me more than anything I've ever 107 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: covered with you, because we talked about it for so long. 108 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: But the longer we went, the more I see in 109 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: this because I cannot fathom I can't plumb the depths 110 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: of this kind of evening those openings. Jackie is telling me, 111 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: we're only eight inches wide, so he had to force 112 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: them down. And while they're down in that crude oil tanker, 113 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: the skin on their arms actually comes off. That's what 114 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: d sleeving means. Now, that's all. I don't want to 115 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: go into more of the gruesome facts surrounding their murders. 116 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: My point is, who are these nuts that are in 117 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: love with him? Take a listen to our friends at 118 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: ABC seven. Convicted wife killer Chris Watts receiving love letters 119 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: from women in prison. Prosecutors releasing dozens of letters sent 120 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: to the thirty three year old, one woman writing in 121 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 1: my heart, I know you are a great guy. Another 122 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: woman sent Wats a photo of herself in a bikini. 123 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: Wat's admitted to killing his pregnant wife and their two 124 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 1: little girls. He's serving three life sentences. Earlier this month, 125 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: Watts was moved from a prison in Colorado to one 126 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: in Wisconsin for safety reasons. Wendy Patcheck, California prosecutor author 127 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:17,599 Speaker 1: red Flags, moved for safety reasons for his own safety. 128 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: Even the other inmates want to kill him. When we 129 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: see notorious killers like this, Nancy, it is true that 130 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: safety reasons can in fact include their own safety, and 131 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: that's one of the things that state agrees to how somebody, 132 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: they also agree to protect them. Although we often don't 133 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: know all of what goes on behind the scenes that 134 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: leads somebody to be moved for safety reasons, we do 135 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: know that it happened here with this inmates. Yeah, Chris 136 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 1: Watts had to be moved out of state to another penitentiary, 137 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: another CI correctional institution because his life was in danger. 138 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: Even the other inmates want to kill him. But these 139 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,719 Speaker 1: women are in love with him and quote, no, deep 140 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: down in my heart, you are a good No, he's 141 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: not a good guy. Take a listen to our friends 142 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: at Inside Edition. His crimes were unspeakable, the murders of 143 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:11,079 Speaker 1: his pregnant wife and two little daughters. Yet thirty three 144 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: year old Chris Watts is actually receiving love letters. In 145 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 1: my heart, you're a great guy, writes a woman named Candice. 146 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: If you do write me back, I'd be the happiest 147 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: girl alive, that's for sure. She signed off with hashtags 148 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: team Chris, Chris is innocent, love him and so cute. 149 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: Another woman named Tatiana wrote, I found myself thinking a 150 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: lot about you. That's a photo of herself in a bikini. 151 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: A woman named Kim wrote, I'm hoping to brighten your days. 152 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 1: Hannah wrote Chris Watt's name in flowery calligraphy and told 153 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: him I feel this connection to you. Many of the 154 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 1: letters which were released by prosecutors are signed with hearts 155 00:10:49,360 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: and x's and oh's for hugs and kissies. Time Stories 156 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace ChIL Eisenberg joining me, the author of 157 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: Women Who Love Men Who Kill Volume two. Hashtag Chris 158 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: is innocent? No, he is not innocent. He didn't have 159 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: a trial, he pled guilty under oath, he admitted he's guilty. 160 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: Is not innocent deep deep down inside? Who are these people? 161 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: Chris wats Who's clearly guilty. There's no question about that. 162 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: And he's just one in a long line of notorious 163 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: and heinous murderers who attract the attention of women. And 164 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: there are many, many people like him. For example, Ted 165 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: Bundy had groupies in court when he was on trial, 166 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: and he married one of them, Carol Boone, and he 167 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: had a child with her. So the question you're asking 168 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: is why. And I've spent thirty years asking that question 169 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: and answering it, and it's really not that complicated. For years, 170 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: obsessive fans of celebrities have tried to get in touch 171 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: with them, and they've written love letters. And ask yourself, 172 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: who's going to answer your love letter? Prince Charles back 173 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: in the day, or George Clooney today or Chris Watts. 174 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: Chris Watts is going to answer your love letter. Right, So, 175 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: if you want to be famous and you want your 176 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: name in the paper, you're going to write to a 177 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 1: convicted serial killer, or, in the case of Watts, a 178 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: man guilty of familicide, which means killing your whole family. 179 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: And just by the way, serial killers like Ted Bundy 180 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: are no longer what we hear about. We hear about 181 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: mass murderers, people who do one large event into one 182 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: large killing, and they're the ones who get all the attention. Nancy, 183 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: if I could jump in, who doctor Bethany Marshall? Sorry, yes, 184 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: I was just coming to you because Sheila isenbar Are, 185 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: the author of Women Who Love Men Who Kill? Volumes 186 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: one and two has a huge long list. So these 187 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: women are not isolated in their bizarre fixation. What is it? 188 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: There's actually a clinical name. Well, yes, we know. What 189 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,079 Speaker 1: Sheila just now said. I thought was brilliant is that 190 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: they are not so different from fanatics who fall in 191 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: love with celebrities. That there are some similar features, but 192 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: I think it's a little hottle deeper than that. There's 193 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: a lot of research that goes into understanding women who 194 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: fall in love with men behind bars, and one of 195 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: the ideas is that some of them have grown up 196 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: in violent households. They fuse power, aggression, and love as 197 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: if those three things are one and the same. They 198 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: always know where their guy is. I mean, imagine, for 199 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,239 Speaker 1: most of us in love relationships, we have to tolerate 200 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: that our spouses are desirable and out in the world 201 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: and meeting other people, and we have to trust, we 202 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: have to not be jealous, we have to not control them, 203 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: and many of us may work on that throughout the lifespan. 204 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: But these women have the fantasy that they know where 205 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: their guy is at all times. He's behind bars, he's 206 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: thinking about me, he's writing love letters. Oh, by the way, 207 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: he's not cheating on me, he's not having sex with 208 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: anybody because I know where he is. They imagine that 209 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: these men have no sexual life behind bars. I mean, 210 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: that's a huge fantasy. And Nancy, there's so much to say, 211 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: but I love this one prison study where they interviewed 212 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: women men who were in love with men behind bars. 213 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: None of the women had read the court pleadings, the 214 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: court files, or knew the guy's rap sheet. They didn't 215 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: want to know. They had complete blinders on. So in 216 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: some ways, these women are like control freaks on steroids. 217 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: That's the clinical term. They want to control the narrative 218 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: about the man who they think they love. So despite 219 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: the fact that the man is a heinous killer like 220 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: Chris Watts, they're telling themselves, Oh, he's misunderstood, he's innocent. 221 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: But think about how grandiose these women are. They're controlling 222 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: the narrative about the man behind bars despite what society, 223 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: the prosecutor, the judge, everybody else is saying. They okay 224 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: to no better guys. There is a mental condition call hybristaphilia. 225 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: Hybrista Philia is actually the sex attraction to someone who 226 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: has committed outrageous and gruesome crimes. It is a recognized 227 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: mental ailment. It does not rise to insanity hybristophilia. And 228 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: doctor bethany I believe you said that a study was 229 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: done of these women that write love letters and many, 230 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: if not most of them had not read their love 231 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: objects record. They didn't even really know that much about 232 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: the g An actual study was done. It was a 233 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: prison study. And actually in this study they interviewed prison guards. 234 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: Because the prison guards were the ones who were talking 235 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: to these women when they went in to visit the killers. 236 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: So it was very interesting. It wasn't necessarily just the 237 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: study of the women, but the prison staff around these women. 238 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: And one of the women in particular was Richard Ramirez, 239 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: the night Stranglers. That what he was called, the Night's Talker, 240 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: the night ran doctor, the nights talker. Yes, so he 241 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: had a woman who fell in love with him while 242 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: he was behind bars, and she knew nothing about the crime. 243 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: Women who love men who kill. We are now learning 244 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: that killer dad Chris Watts is getting an avalanche of 245 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: prison letters from women and men he professed their love 246 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: for him, even sending sexy photos, bikini photos and more. 247 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 1: But let's don't forget who Chris Watts really is. Take 248 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 1: a listen. Chilling new secrets are being revealed about Chris Watts, 249 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: the dad who brutally killed his pregnant wife and their 250 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: two adorable daughters. Daddy, is that he did? He admit 251 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: to you that he murdered his family. He absolutely did. 252 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 1: Sherylyne Catle was fascinated by the case and started exchanging 253 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 1: letters with Watts. Eventually she started visiting him at a 254 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: maximum security prison in Wisconsin. She spoke with Anne mccogliano. 255 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,439 Speaker 1: What was it like to meet him in person? Very surreal. 256 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: At times when he would talk about the murders, his 257 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:24,959 Speaker 1: eyes would turn so the wack. He just would get 258 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: a different look on his face. And he talked about 259 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 1: it so nonchalantly, like you know, going down to get 260 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: a cup of coffee. Watts letters are filled with shocking 261 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: confessions he never told the FBI, including that he had 262 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 1: planned the murders for weeks. You are hearing our friends 263 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: at Insight Edition. Take a listen to more. He'd secretly 264 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 1: given his wife the painkiller OxyContin to end her pregnancy. 265 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: He thought that would make it easier to leave her 266 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 1: to be with his mistress, Nicole Cassenger. The reason the 267 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: medical examiner found oxyconton and Shannon's system is because I 268 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: gave it to her. I thought it would be easier 269 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: to be with Nicole if Nan wasn't pregnant. He was 270 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: very mesmerized by her. He just said in his letters 271 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 1: that had it not been for her and the power 272 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,719 Speaker 1: that she had over him, she pulled at him constantly. 273 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 1: So even now he is blaming his victims, his wife 274 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 1: and his two little girls. Joining me, Sheila Issenberg author 275 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: of Women Who Love Men Who Kill Volume two on Amazon, 276 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 1: Sheila Way in, Yeah, I'd like to talk about a 277 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: few things. First of all, there's two different types of 278 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 1: women writing love letters and getting involved with men who kill. 279 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: There's what I call the garden variety killers. The guy 280 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: who's committed murder and nobody knows about him. He's in prison, 281 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: serving his life sentence, and a woman gets involved with him. 282 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 1: And she is involved because she has had a traumatic childhood. 283 00:19:55,480 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: She's been abused by her father, her uncle buddy in 284 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 1: her childhood and earlier relationship. She's been sexually abused, physically abused, 285 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: psychologically abused, and for her, this guy in prison is 286 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: a safe relationship. He's behind bars, she always knows where 287 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: he is, and she's in control for the first time 288 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 1: in her life. So that's the garden variety relationship. Also, 289 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 1: I just want to address the fact that there's no 290 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: sex usually involved in these relationships. The man in prison, 291 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 1: the prisoner puts her on a pedestal, He writes her 292 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: love letters, poetry, paints pictures of her, and she feels 293 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: elevated and loved and romanticized to the first time in 294 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: her life. In addition, she doesn't care about his rap sheet. 295 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: As someone said, she doesn't believe he's guilty. She's convinced 296 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 1: that he's innocent. He usually finds guards, he becomes a Christian, 297 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: he's a good man. There's a million different stories and 298 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: million different ways of looking at it, and I've interviewed 299 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,880 Speaker 1: dozens and dozens of women who fit this profile. Then 300 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 1: there's the flip side of the coin. There's the woman 301 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: who's in love with the Chris Watts kind of a killer. 302 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 1: His name is in the papers, he's famous, he's notorious. 303 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: Everyone knows what he did. That woman also probably had 304 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: an abusive past, but she wants something else. She doesn't 305 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: just want control. She wants to be famous. She wants 306 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: to be known because, as a famous author once said, 307 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 1: everybody wants to be known, and everybody wants their fifteen 308 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: minutes of fame. So we have two different kinds of 309 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: things going on with women who love men who kill. 310 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: And I just want to also deal with the word hybristophilia. 311 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: I have never found in anything in any women that 312 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: I interviewed that they were sexually attracted to violence. As 313 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, they all, even the ones who 314 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: are in love with the serial killers like Carol Anne 315 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: Carol Anne Boone who married Ted Bundy. She believed he 316 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: was innocent, even though she sat through his trial and 317 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: she had a child with him, and she married him. 318 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 1: When she finally was convinced that he was guilty, she 319 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: divorced him and every series. My understanding that hybristophelia is 320 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 1: the attraction to someone who has committed gruesome crimes, right, 321 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: Not the attraction to the gruesome nature of the crimes, 322 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: not attracted to violence itself. Attracted to this person, yes, 323 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 1: But who has I admitted these great doctor John Money, 324 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: psychiatrists psychologists coined the Turn the late doctor John Money. 325 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 1: I interviewed him to the first volume of Women Who 326 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 1: Are Man Kill? But I have never found any evidence 327 00:22:51,880 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: of youth Nancy interesting crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, 328 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 1: we are talking about women that love guys behind bars 329 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: have committed horrible crimes. In this case, we're talking about 330 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: killer Dad Chris Watts. Take a listen to Angie Harmon's 331 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: Salemate Secrets. In Letters to Cherylyn, Chris writes how he 332 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: carefully planned out the murders and reveals the tragic details 333 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: step by step. On August ninth, twenty eighteen, Shanan goes 334 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: away on business, and that's when Watts decides it's time 335 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: to free himself a family constraints. The night Shanana said 336 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: to return, Watts puts his premeditated plan in motion. He 337 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: told me that he knew that was the last time 338 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: he would ever tuck his babies in. Then, around two am, 339 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: Shannan comes home from her trip. What's admits to having 340 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: sex with Chanan. To disarm her, he leaves the room, and, 341 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 1: unbeknowns to Chanan, he goes to the girl's room to 342 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: smother them, purportedly because he doesn't want them to hear 343 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: him murder their mother. According to Chris's letter to Sherlyn, 344 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 1: he doesn't tell Shanan about his affair, only that he 345 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 1: no longer loves her. There we hear what Chris Watts 346 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: is telling at least one person. He fully confesses it. Again, 347 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: Wat's play guilty as not as if he were railroaded 348 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: at trial. One of the dangerous aspects of these love 349 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 1: letters is that they are spawning conspiracies that Chris Watts 350 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 1: is innocent and that someone else is responsible for the murders. 351 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: Take those to our cut. Seven from sellmate Secrets. I'm 352 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: Chris Ricello, and I met Chris Watts from writing to 353 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: him in prison. I've never seen a case in history 354 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: that somebody took a plea agreement so quickly a case 355 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 1: was completely ended and not investigated. And there's all these 356 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: different theories because normally this would be going on in 357 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: a trial for years, and it was only two months 358 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 1: to this plea agreement, and that's what caught me. Prisons 359 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 1: are familiar territory for the forty two year old former 360 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: prison psychologist who recalls visiting her incarcerated father when she 361 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: was a child. It makes me feel more comfortable with inmates, 362 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: and then being a clinical psychologist, I would work in 363 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: the prisons, so I would see the inside of it. However, 364 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: Krista admits that being intrigued by famous criminals is in 365 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: her DNA. My mother was always fascinated with Charles Manson 366 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: from when she was younger. I do think my mom 367 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: was drawn to my dad because he looked so much 368 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 1: like him. Before she met my father, she was on 369 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 1: her way to go to the Manson family to live 370 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: on the ranch of Charles Manson, and then she saw 371 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: my dad, and my dad saw her and they just 372 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: hit it off. It's pretty interesting because my mom did 373 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: stand up for Charles Manson through all that, and I'm 374 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: standing up for Chris. Watch guys, we are talking about 375 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: women who seemingly fall in love with guys behind bars 376 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: that have committed Hainah's crimes. This is by far not 377 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: the first time it's happened. Is quite the phenomena danger. 378 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: They come up with all sorts of half caught conspiracy 379 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: theories about who is the real killer. Wendy Patrick joining me, 380 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: California prosecutor, author of Red Flags, jump in. I actually 381 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 1: have a whole chapter on this in my book Red Flags, 382 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: and no doubt if I went back and read it, 383 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: I probably quote people like Sheila. But one of the 384 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 1: things that I distinguished between because I have researched it 385 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: and prosecuted this type of crime. Also in terms of 386 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: women that you'll break boundaries where they're supposed to be 387 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: working at the prison and get involved with inmates, is 388 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 1: the fact that some of them do believe that these 389 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: men are guilty. In fact, a chapter is called you 390 00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: know when a wolf looks like a wolf. In other words, 391 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: there isn't a red flag in warning. This is why 392 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: the person is dangerous, being desirable, and I wonder whether 393 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: or not. I know, our psychologists on the panel may 394 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: may have ideas too, But there's this idea that this 395 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,719 Speaker 1: woman understands this man she's the only one that can 396 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 1: fix some She understands that she is in a sense 397 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: vicariously joined to the crime that of course she would 398 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,959 Speaker 1: never commit. And that would be a very different reason 399 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: for becoming involved with a dangerous kill. And not because 400 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 1: you think he's innocent, but because you know he's guilty. 401 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 1: And I wonder whether because Chris Wats pled guilty so 402 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: quickly that that isn't the type of woman that somebody 403 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: like him would attract. I mean, Joscott Morgan, his guilty 404 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: play came quickly because he was caught dead in the water. 405 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: I mean he is saying the nan and the children 406 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: are saying going in the home. Then he is saying, 407 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: leaving the home after packing up, they well, it's her body, 408 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: Shann's body in the car. It's caught on the neighbor's 409 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: surveillance video. His description of what he did to the 410 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 1: children's bodies is completely consistent with the discovery of their 411 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: bodies and those oil tankers and his wife buried in 412 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:21,400 Speaker 1: his shallow grave, with having delivered baby Nico in death. 413 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: I mean, how can his confession under oath, I might add, 414 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: he pled guilty under oath to these facts be so 415 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: consistent and fit perfectly with the facts. If it's a lie, 416 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: it's overwhelming evidence. Nancy. The one thing, my one regret 417 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: about this whole thing, when he was sitting in that 418 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: courtroom and I watched this from beginning to end, is 419 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: that the judge did not compel him to alocute. Because 420 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: now you've got all of these people for years and 421 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: years and years that are going to be grieving with 422 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: hearts because they don't know precisely what happened. The truth 423 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: is painful, but sometimes the truth is one of the 424 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: best medicines that is out there for people that need 425 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 1: to recover. He is selfish to the end. Oh and 426 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: let me tell you one more thing about miss psychologist 427 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: who says that she's spent she understands time in the penitentiary. 428 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: I could care less. Let me tell you where she's 429 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: never spending any time. She's never spending any time at 430 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: a death scene. She's never spending any time in the more. 431 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: She hasn't looked at the remnant of what these animals 432 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: leave behind. What he did to these kids, what he 433 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: did to his wife, what he did to his unborn children, 434 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: his unborn child is absolutely horrific and people need to 435 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: be reminded of that. Speaking of Christa Mitchella, take a 436 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: listen to our friends at Lifetime. One entertaining topic of 437 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: conversation is the oftentimes bizarre fan mail Chris receives. I 438 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: know stranger, but I care about you and your Situationously 439 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: have one of the kindest faces I've ever seen. Some reason, 440 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: I find myself caring about how you're I want to 441 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: know you so bad it's not even fun. I just 442 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: want to be your friend and let you know you're 443 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: not alone. However, in May twenty twenty, there's one particular 444 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: letter that Chris doesn't throw away. It's from Christa Riccillo. 445 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: I just wanted to give him hope and not to 446 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: give up, because I just felt he was holding something 447 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: in Did you include anything other than just the letter 448 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: when you wrote Chris? When I wrote Chris, um, I 449 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: put a picture in myself in so he knew what 450 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: I looked like, just to know I wasn't you know, 451 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: just some crazy girl, but I did. I put up 452 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: it was the three page letter and I put a 453 00:30:47,520 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: picture in. It works in getting Chris Watt's attention. Crime 454 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace, the spawning of conspiracy theories by 455 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: these women who insist that he is innocent are actually 456 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: proven to become a danger. The family of Shenan Watts 457 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: has been trolled and attacked and mistreated. Take a listen 458 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: to our cut twelve Dylan Thomas, CBS four. Frank Russi 459 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: tells me that the cyber bullying around this case has 460 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 1: been relentless since the murders about eleven months ago, so 461 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: bad that he's even gone to law enforcement and lawmakers 462 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: seeking help, but has had no assistance. So now he's 463 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: here in Colorado asking CBS four viewers to help him 464 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: stop the trolls. I can't possibly describe how painful the 465 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: last eleven months have been. How does one cope with 466 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: the murders of their child and grandchildren? Just dealing with 467 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: this type of tragedy is more than a family should bear. 468 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: Almost one year has passed since Chris Watts murdered his 469 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 1: pregnant wife in their Frederick home, later killing his own 470 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: daughters Bella and Cecy as well. Since the murder, NaN's family, 471 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: led by father Frank Rusik, has been under attack and 472 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: the most vicious ways you can't imagine, intense cyber bullying 473 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: by fans of the murderer and trolls around the world England, Philippines, Australia. 474 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: It's not fair to these victims. We don't deserve it. 475 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,719 Speaker 1: NaN's family finally having to speak out having been treated 476 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: so badly because many of these conspiracy theories that Chris 477 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: Watts is innocent focus on Nan, the murder victim. Remember 478 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: the mom who had coughin birth after her murder, she 479 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: gives birth to her baby boy, Nico. She was looking 480 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: so forward to they're blaming her among other theories. Well, 481 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: maybe the theory are spawned by others who refuse to 482 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: believe Chris Watts is in fact a killer. Take a 483 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: listen to our cut nine WTV. Chris Watts might have 484 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: pleaded guilty to all nine counts against him last week 485 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,479 Speaker 1: in a Colorado courtroom, but his family says there are 486 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: still unanswered questions about the case. I want the truth. 487 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: I do want the truth to come out. I don't 488 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: want this to happen to anyone else. You know, He's 489 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: he was normal, He was the a normal kid, and 490 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: I just I don't know what happened. Chanan's family responded 491 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 1: to the Watts family interview today, insisting they made quote vicious, grotesque, 492 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: and utterly false statements about Chanan. Watts's family said they 493 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: believe the version of events laid out in the initial 494 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: affidavit that the only reason their son killed Channan was 495 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: because he had seen her strangling their children. What happened 496 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: to that from Pine Forest High School? Well, what happened 497 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: to that Kim from Pine Forest High School? He met Chanan? 498 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:11,240 Speaker 1: That's what happened to him. Bethanie Marshall, How is this happening? 499 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:17,840 Speaker 1: He confessed he murdered Shennan. He confessed to murdering his 500 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 1: own children so he could be with his lover. How 501 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 1: can Chris Watt's family blame Nan? Nancy? Let me out 502 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,839 Speaker 1: another theory about women who fall in love with men 503 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: behind bars. They harbor secret aggression towards the victims they are. 504 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 1: These women are not so nice, they do spunk. We 505 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,800 Speaker 1: think of them as both their meek and mild, and 506 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 1: they fall in love with somebody behind bars because they 507 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,919 Speaker 1: don't know any better. Nancy, the opposite is really true. 508 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 1: These women are not nice women. They lorded over the 509 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: victims families. They lorded over the victim of Reading Malloy, 510 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 1: who's one of my favorite forensic psychologists, talks about the 511 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: that these women take secret satisfaction in the nature of 512 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:10,399 Speaker 1: the man's crimes. So think about Shennan's family. They're being 513 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: re victimized by the women who are in love with 514 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: killer dad. There was a famous story, I think it 515 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: was twenty years ago about a prison nurse who actually 516 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 1: fell in love with a man behind bars tried to 517 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: get him out of jail by shooting to prison guards. 518 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 1: So don't let's let's not prelude ourselves into thinking these 519 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: women just like they they fall they're seduced by these criminals. 520 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: These women are are bad people themselves. I don't I 521 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: don't agree. I don't agree. I don't think you can 522 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: lump them all into the category of being bad women. 523 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I've interviewed women who are nurses, journalists, college professors, 524 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 1: they were arranged with people. I'm sure there is from 525 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 1: bad ones in there, but I think it's they're not 526 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,360 Speaker 1: bad necessarily or good. I think it goes deeper than that. 527 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 1: I think these are all women who've been damaged themselves 528 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: in their own lives, damaged by the way they were 529 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: treated by parents' fathers, first husband's boyfriends, and they are 530 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 1: so damaged that they seek relationships that you and I 531 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 1: might look at and say, why are they crazy? And 532 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: the truth is they're not crazy. They are looking. I 533 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,400 Speaker 1: think it's easy to see the men, the criminals, as 534 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 1: bad and the women is pure and innocent. I think 535 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 1: that's a problem we have in our not to let 536 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:45,759 Speaker 1: okay ladies. I just want to say that anyone that 537 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 1: supports a theory blaming a murder victim like Shannan Watts, 538 00:36:53,120 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 1: I find that to be cruel, hateful, irresponsible, and hurtful. Cruel, hateful, irresponsible, hurtful. 539 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: How do you think Chananne Watts's family feels with all 540 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: of these women blaming Shenan for her own death and 541 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:21,719 Speaker 1: the desert her little girls, her unboard son. Do I 542 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: want anyone abused, No? Do I want anyone mistreated? No? 543 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:31,360 Speaker 1: But I do not condone conspiracy theories that hurt the 544 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:39,479 Speaker 1: victim's family. Period. Listen to wt V D R cut 545 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: Ten that boy he knew what he wanted to do. 546 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,440 Speaker 1: He went to NASCAR Technical Institute. It has been a nightmare, 547 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:52,320 Speaker 1: a complete nightmare. It has been so overwhelming, and I 548 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 1: feel like I have to do something to help my 549 00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: son to I just I need to do something. If 550 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,839 Speaker 1: he's not going to fight, I want to fight for him. 551 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 1: The Watts family, he told me, they felt Channan was 552 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: dangerous that they didn't even go to the couple's wedding. 553 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 1: In fact, they believed that Chris knewe was going to 554 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,840 Speaker 1: get life in prison for killing his wife and the 555 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 1: disposing of the girl's body. So this is why he 556 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 1: confessed to all nine count San's family said quote, her 557 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,280 Speaker 1: memory and reputation deserves to be protected, and her family 558 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 1: is fully prepared to do so. Let me close with 559 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, professor of forensics death investigator who has 560 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 1: investigated literally thousands of homicides. Jo Scott Morgan explained to 561 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: me how Chris Watt's confession fits perfectly with not one 562 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: inconsistency with the forensic evidence of the three murders. It 563 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:57,799 Speaker 1: fits perfectly, Nancy, because we can marry up. First off, 564 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: the most graphic of all of all of these little 565 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 1: points along this continuum, the rate of decomposition that was 566 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: involved in these bodies, how it was expressed or are 567 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: sped up as a result of him dumping these poor 568 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: little children into these vats out in the middle of 569 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: this wilderness, Nancy. And we can also look at the 570 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,520 Speaker 1: evidence that was left behind when he very quickly dug 571 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,279 Speaker 1: the shallow grave and deposited this woman that he had 572 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,760 Speaker 1: actually created life with into this grave and then covered 573 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,600 Speaker 1: her up, the degree to which her body had been 574 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,880 Speaker 1: decomposed compared to the daughters themselves. And then you have 575 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:45,240 Speaker 1: this timeline relative to him being seen on the camera 576 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: and then being able to track him out to this 577 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:53,239 Speaker 1: specific location that he and only fellow co workers would 578 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,360 Speaker 1: have access to, and then you begin to look at 579 00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,319 Speaker 1: his behaviors. I think one of the things that really 580 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: stands out, and I'll close with this is that image 581 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,200 Speaker 1: of him standing on the front porch. And you know, 582 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,520 Speaker 1: doctor Bethany, you know, I'm sure has seen this as well. 583 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,759 Speaker 1: When he's out there and he's self soothing on the 584 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,799 Speaker 1: porch where he has his hands wrapped around his own 585 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,520 Speaker 1: shoulders and he's rubbing himself and he's comforting himself while 586 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,000 Speaker 1: he's talking on air and they're asking him very specifically, 587 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 1: you know, about where his kids are, where his family is, 588 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 1: and he's saying, all I want is for them to 589 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,840 Speaker 1: come home. Well, they're not coming home, Chris, because you 590 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 1: know where they were. They were stuffed away into these 591 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 1: holding tanks. Your wife was buried in the dirt all 592 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: along with your unborn child. Misplaced love for a killer 593 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 1: behind bars is one thing spawning conspiracy theories about who 594 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:55,840 Speaker 1: really did the crime. As yet another, Chris Watts murdered 595 00:40:56,040 --> 00:41:03,759 Speaker 1: his wife and children. Any One who suggests otherwise is 596 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:10,799 Speaker 1: having tea with the devil Nancy Grace Crimes story. Signing off, 597 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:12,160 Speaker 1: goodbye friend,