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Speaker 1: Pope Leo appointed a new Australian bishop with a controversial

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Speaker 1: track records. We'll tell you about him and is it

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Speaker 1: time for a female to play Jesus in a musical

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Speaker 1: at the Hollywood Bowl. The Prayerful Posse is assembly. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to this Arroyo Grande series, The Prayerful Posse, where we

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Speaker 1: dive into matters of faith and its impact on culture.

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Speaker 1: Let's convene the Posse. Joining us is Robert Royal, editor

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Speaker 1: in chief of the Catholic Thing dot Org. Father Jerry

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Speaker 1: Murray is outriding the plains, but we'll catch up with

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Speaker 1: him in the days they had. I'm Raymond Arroyo. Go

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Speaker 1: subscribe to the Arroyo Grande podcast on iHeart Apple, Spotify

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Speaker 1: or on YouTube at Arroyo Grande Show. We don't want

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Speaker 1: you to miss an episode of the Posse. Bob We

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Speaker 1: said weeks ago the bishop appointments of Poplio would give

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Speaker 1: us a sense of his vision and a sense of

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Speaker 1: where this papacy is going.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 1: Now, this week, Pope Leo appointed his first archbishop in

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Speaker 1: a major archdiocese in Australia. He named a second Australian

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Speaker 1: prelate this week as well. But Bishop Shane maclay will

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Speaker 1: be the new Archbishop of Brisbane, Australia. Now, McLay attended

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Speaker 1: the twenty twenty four Vaticans send It on sinidality. He

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Speaker 1: was chosen to help draft that final document, very controversial.

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Speaker 1: McLay is also publicly in favor of the ordination of

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Speaker 1: women to the diaconate as deacons and we can presume

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Speaker 1: the priesthood. Bob your thoughts on this appointment by a

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Speaker 1: pope who was formerly the head of the Dicastria bishops.

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Speaker 1: What does it tell us about the mind of Leo

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Speaker 1: the fourteenth and the direction of the church.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's a big question, Raymond, and I think we

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Speaker 3: need to look at this from several different directions because

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Speaker 3: on the one hand, we know that Leo has spoken against,

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Speaker 3: for example, LGBT, which this new archbishop seems to favor

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Speaker 3: at least ministering too. But the way he talks about

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Speaker 3: it is the way very often we hear Father James

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Speaker 3: Martin talk about him. That is, you know, we're faithful

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Speaker 3: to the tradition, but we're pastorally reaching out. And to me,

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Speaker 3: this kind of two step I think covers over the

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Speaker 3: fact that activists are perfectly happy to use this to

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Speaker 3: advance what is quite clearly not the orthodox teaching of

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Speaker 3: the Catholic Church. So that's one thing. The other thing

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Speaker 3: is that he has spoken very highly of the German

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Speaker 3: Sinatal way, which is a very very heterodox approach to

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Speaker 3: a whole bunch of different questions. And we know that

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Speaker 3: the Vatican, at least under Pope Francis, with whom Popelia

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Speaker 3: was very close, was very skeptical of what the Germans

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Speaker 3: were trying to do, thought of this as potentially schismatic.

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Speaker 3: So there are different parts to this. Now, he must

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Speaker 3: know this new archbishop very well, and maybe there are

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Speaker 3: other sides to when we hear that he's a good administrator,

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Speaker 3: is a very bright man who listens to people. But

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Speaker 3: this kind of mixture of a good figure with possibly

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Speaker 3: heterodox ideas I think might be something we'll see further.

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Speaker 2: But we'll see.

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Speaker 3: Maybe this was an appointment that was already in the pipeline.

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Speaker 2: He could certainly have said no.

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Speaker 3: About it, but I'm not convinced that this is particularly

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Speaker 3: a strong sign. We'll have to just see where he

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Speaker 3: goes after this.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's some chatter online, and of course I've been

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Speaker 1: getting emails this week. Rememberabile, Back in May, Pope Leo

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Speaker 1: confirmed a father, beat Grogly as the bishop of San Gallen, Switzerland.

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Speaker 1: You remember that nomination. Now that was just a confirmation

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Speaker 1: because it's kind of an odd church pick, you know,

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Speaker 1: the local church has a hand in choosing that bishop.

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Speaker 1: But he too, this father soon to be bishop beat Grogli,

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Speaker 1: is also a supporter of female ordination, and people are saying,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, this is worrisome. Is this the direction

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Speaker 1: we're going, that we're going to choose bishops who support

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Speaker 1: ordaining women to the diaconate or the priesthood. And I mean,

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Speaker 1: as you rightly pointed out early on Pravos, Pope Leo,

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Speaker 1: he said back in twenty twenty three, I'll give you

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Speaker 1: the quote here. I think we're all familiar with the

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Speaker 1: very significant and long tradition of the Church, and that

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Speaker 1: the Apostolic tradition is something that has been spelled out

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Speaker 1: very clearly, especially if you want to talk about the

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Speaker 1: question of women's ordination to the priesthood. So it seems

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Speaker 1: he is with the traditional church on this and the

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Speaker 1: church teaching and history.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, look, we need to distinguish here that the question

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Speaker 3: right now is female deaconesses. So there are people who

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Speaker 3: are in favor of this and present it as if

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Speaker 3: it is just a minor order that it doesn't. It

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Speaker 3: doesn't pretend the ordination of women as priests. But look,

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Speaker 3: we know how these things get going. There are snowballs

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Speaker 3: that start small and they sneak, if I can mix

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Speaker 3: my metaphors, they sneak the camel's nose under the tent,

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Speaker 3: and they become larger and larger until it just becomes inevitable. Now,

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Speaker 3: one of the other factors I think about this appointment

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Speaker 3: in Brisbane is that it was Cardinal uh Mark Coleridge

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Speaker 3: who preceded the new bishop. We met with Cardinal Coleridge

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Speaker 3: several times during the many synods that have taken place

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Speaker 3: over the past few years, and he always seemed to

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Speaker 3: me he's very well spoken, very smart, but he always

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Speaker 3: seemed to me to be on if I can put

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Speaker 3: it this way, the peripheries of dogma. He was kind

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Speaker 3: of always open to the next step and happy about advancing,

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Speaker 3: if you want to call it, this progressive kind kind

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Speaker 3: of moves within the church. So maybe he had an

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Speaker 3: influence about this appointment. It's certainly not a strong appointment

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Speaker 3: for people who are concerned about the orthodoxy of the church.

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Speaker 3: But I want to say again, we're still in the

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Speaker 3: early stages.

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Speaker 2: And there are different reasons. Look, we know that.

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Speaker 3: John Paul is second appointed McCarrick, Bergoglio Cardinal Casper. So

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Speaker 3: even some of the pubs that we look up to

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Speaker 3: the most have kind of checkered records when it comes

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Speaker 3: to who they appoint. There may be multiple reasons why

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Speaker 3: they appoint some person, maybe somebody locally. But I want

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Speaker 3: to see I think I would like to see some

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Speaker 3: stronger movement on the part of Pope Leo. He's spoken

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Speaker 3: very strongly against LGBT. He's talked about how we shouldn't

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Speaker 3: be discussing genders that don't exist. He seems to be

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Speaker 3: very strong, as you rightly say, against the ordination of women.

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Speaker 3: But are the appointments We know that in a way

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Speaker 3: personnel or policy, we need to see some serious appointments

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Speaker 3: coming from him as well.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's what I always say. Look, watch people ask

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Speaker 1: me tell me about the pope. I said, well, watch

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Speaker 1: the appointments, see what he does. We did this in

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Speaker 1: our earliest show when we talked about Poplo see what

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Speaker 1: he does about the old Latin Mass, what does he

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Speaker 1: do about the China Deal? But appointments, the day to

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Speaker 1: day appointment of men who will spread throughout the world

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Speaker 1: and carry his vision of the church forward. That is,

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Speaker 1: it's beyond people or policy. It's really people are dogma,

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Speaker 1: People are the Church. This becomes the visible face of

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Speaker 1: what Catholicism is or will be in the conception of

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Speaker 1: the new pope. Now everybody wants to know who is

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Speaker 1: the new pope? Who is Poplo? And Argentinian Bishop Alberto Bocht,

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Speaker 1: a decade's long friend of former Cardinal Robert Privos now Popolio,

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Speaker 1: is speaking out this week.

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Speaker 2: Bob.

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Speaker 1: He says Pope Francis considered provost one of the hopes

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Speaker 1: among the cardinals, and he says pop Leo is more

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Speaker 1: of a formal man than Francis, and we'll keep the

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Speaker 1: form but change the contents of the papacy. What does

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Speaker 1: that mean, Bob, What do you think that means?

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Speaker 3: Well, of course that could be a problem. I've heard

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Speaker 3: from reliable sources that when Robert Prevos was in Peru

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Speaker 3: that he used to and bishop he used to require

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Speaker 3: his priests, for example, to properly vest even when they

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Speaker 3: went into the Confessionals. So he seems to like this

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Speaker 3: continuity of form. Now, a continuity of form can coexist

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Speaker 3: with a lot of changes in content. Obviously, one of

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Speaker 3: the contents I'd like to see him changes is the

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Speaker 3: idea of sinidality, so that we actually get some substance

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Speaker 3: and some clarity about.

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Speaker 2: We're going to get to that.

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Speaker 1: I promise we'll get to the sinidelity discussion coming out again.

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Speaker 3: We have to look, I mean, we have to look

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Speaker 3: at what concrete steps he takes these appointments. What are

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Speaker 3: the kinds of things that they're going to do. I mean, obviously,

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Speaker 3: lots of traditional or orthodonted religious bodies within the Church

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Speaker 3: have suffered recently of persecution, whether it's the Latin Mass

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Speaker 3: or some of the more conservative religious orders. So I

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Speaker 3: think that those are going to be the tipping points

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Speaker 3: at which we're really going to see the shape and

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Speaker 3: the direction of what this pope intends to do with

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Speaker 3: the church.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Cardinal Mario Grek, who some will remember was the

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Speaker 1: general secretary of that Synod on Bishops or of Bishops

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Speaker 1: that really included laity. He's claiming this week, quote the

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Speaker 1: shortage of vocations can be a grace from God, Bob,

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Speaker 1: because it opens the door to the laity to expand

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Speaker 1: their role in the church, even administering the sacraments. Here's

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Speaker 1: the full quote, the shortage of vocations can be a

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Speaker 1: grace from God. Some are scandalized by these words because

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Speaker 1: it could prompt the church to recognize and utilize the

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Speaker 1: diverse gifts present among all Christians, rather than concentrating power

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Speaker 1: solely within the clergy end quote. There's a lot there

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Speaker 1: to unpack. What do you make of that thought the

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Speaker 1: thought process here, you know, and let's not forget the

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Speaker 1: hostility that's often thrown a traditional seminaries, Bob with lots

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Speaker 1: of vocations, but that idea that let's not concentrate all

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Speaker 1: the power solely within the clergy comment all that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this idea of you know, who holds power is

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Speaker 3: kind of a crypto Marxist approach because who holds power

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Speaker 3: tells you nothing. All it tells you is that some

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Speaker 3: people are more powerful than others. The question is is

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Speaker 3: what they are doing with that power?

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Speaker 2: Is it just? Is it proper? Is it right that

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Speaker 2: they have that power?

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Speaker 3: I have to say, maybe multi this is a different

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Speaker 3: place than places I'm familiar with, but I don't see

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Speaker 3: that there's an overdominance of clergy in very many places.

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Speaker 3: It seems to me that the laity have long been

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Speaker 3: on the ascendency, at least here in the United States.

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Speaker 3: The lady do an awful lot of the heavy lifting.

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Speaker 3: I mean to look at the two of us. We've

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Speaker 3: been at this stuff for a dozen years together. When

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Speaker 3: you're trying to figure out where the church are to go.

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Speaker 3: I mean, maybe we've not done it well, but I

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Speaker 3: think we've tried to do our best at it. So look,

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Speaker 3: to me, this is a rationalization. This is whistling past

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Speaker 3: the graveyard decline in the leadership of an institution. It

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Speaker 3: signals there's something wrong at the top, where there are

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Speaker 3: good bishops, where there's a strong and clear idea.

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Speaker 2: Of what the faith is.

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Speaker 3: Of course, young men are attracted to that, just in

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Speaker 3: the same way that they're attracted to the military, or

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Speaker 3: they're attracted to very good universities. People who are talented

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Speaker 3: and ambitious and actually want to make a contribution to

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Speaker 3: the world aren't going to see that they are able

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Speaker 3: to do that if they're going to be just kind

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Speaker 3: of tolerated. While the laity are going to become the

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Speaker 3: primary movers of things. I'm a great believer that the

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Speaker 3: laity are going to play a major role in saving

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Speaker 3: a church in our time.

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Speaker 1: Well, but I got news for Cardinal Gregg. The power

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Speaker 1: in the church has always been with the lady. That

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Speaker 1: is the incubator for vocations. It's where old priests and

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Speaker 1: cardinals and bishops popes come from. And we do hold

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Speaker 1: the purse strings. As we'll talk about in our next story.

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Speaker 1: If the laity decides not to give of their treasure

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Speaker 1: hard earned to the church, that church ceases to exist,

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Speaker 1: at least there and in that form.

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Speaker 3: Cardinal Luman was once asked if the church needed the laity,

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Speaker 3: and he said she would look awfully foolish without them.

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Speaker 1: A good insight as all of his insides were bob.

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Speaker 1: The Diocese of Buffalo announced this week, speaking of withholding

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Speaker 1: of funds or possibly the giving of them, the Diocese

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Speaker 1: of Buffalo is asking parishes to contribute eighty million dollars

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Speaker 1: of the one hundred and fifty million dollars sex abuse

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Speaker 1: settlement it entered back in April. Now that settlement covers

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Speaker 1: over eight hundred claims of sexual abuse. According to the diocese,

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Speaker 1: each Buffalo Diocese each parish. Rather, each parish will receive

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Speaker 1: a detailed statement of their quote expected contribution to the settlement.

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Speaker 1: Your thoughts, I mean, I don't know how much money

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Speaker 1: they're going to pull in this way about.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm quite familiar with upstate New York because my

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Speaker 3: wife grew up in that area, and it used to

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Speaker 3: be a very strong Catholic area. Most of those big

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Speaker 3: cities Syracuse, Rochester, Albany now or they're been hollowed out

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Speaker 3: because just you know, the factories have moved out of there,

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Speaker 3: the enter of living has really declined. So I think

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Speaker 3: this is going to put a lot of pressure on

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Speaker 3: those parishes up there. I mean, maybe they're going to

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Speaker 3: just have to do it to.

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Speaker 2: Rescue that diocese.

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Speaker 3: But this just shows ways in which sin and bad

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Speaker 3: behavior in any organization are disastrous, even far beyond you know,

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Speaker 3: we're very sympathetic to what happened to the victims of

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Speaker 3: these abusers, but what about all the people in the

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Speaker 3: pews who are struggling to get by in this day

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Speaker 3: and the age and are being asked to bail out

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Speaker 3: an institution that didn't do the right thing. You know, ten,

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Speaker 3: twenty thirty four years. There's going to be some resentments

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Speaker 3: and I'm going to be surprised actually, if they're able

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Speaker 3: to pull this off, maybe they can kind of spread

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Speaker 3: out the rescue over a longer period.

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Speaker 2: But there's going to.

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Speaker 3: Be a resistance, and I think we're going to hear

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Speaker 3: some loud voices about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, here's the statement by Bishop Michael Fisher of Buffalo,

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Speaker 1: which is interesting.

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Speaker 2: Quote.

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Speaker 1: As we maintained throughout the protracted process, the participation of

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Speaker 1: the entire Catholic family is necessary to bring a close

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Speaker 1: to this painful chapter of our diocese and to achieve

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Speaker 1: a level of restitution that is owed to the many

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Speaker 1: who have had to carry the tremendous burden of physical, emotional,

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Speaker 1: spiritual harm of sexual and sexual abuses throughout their lives. Look, Bob,

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Speaker 1: I think everybody is sensitive to this. The question is

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Speaker 1: what did the church do in the past, What are

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Speaker 1: they going to do now to make sure it doesn't

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Speaker 1: happen again? And as you said, when financial hard times

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Speaker 1: hit an area like upstate New York, they're not the

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Speaker 1: people to bail. They can't come up with this kind

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Speaker 1: of gash.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, look, there are legal ways to deal

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Speaker 3: with this. You just go through a bankruptcy. This is

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Speaker 3: what happens with corporations as well. But it's really a

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Speaker 3: very sad day when some of these places that once

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Speaker 3: were very vibrant. I hear about the beautiful churches in

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Speaker 3: a lot of these cities, some of which I've actually visited,

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Speaker 3: and they're actually quite stunning that you know, during the

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Speaker 3: period of large immigration or Catholic people built.

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Speaker 2: These things up, and you know, maybe we're all going

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Speaker 2: to just have to bite the bullet and do this again.

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Speaker 3: But how sad that we're not building up the way

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Speaker 3: we once were able to do. And now we're much

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Speaker 3: wealthier than we were in the past. But what we're

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Speaker 3: doing actually is just trying to stay afloat and to

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Speaker 3: compensate for things that were mishandled in the past. I

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Speaker 3: think our bishops are doing are trying to do a

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Speaker 3: decent job with this. I would like to see some

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Speaker 3: more energy coming out of Rome, because as we've known,

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Speaker 3: there have been some lingering cases even there. This is

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Speaker 3: one thing that is really going to be on the

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Speaker 3: plate of Leo, and it's not only being the out

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Speaker 3: of the States. It is going to be elsewhere as well.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, Bob, this is another weird story. Also upstate

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Speaker 1: New York, All Saints Catholic Church in Syracuse held an

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Speaker 1: LGBT Pride Mass on Trinity Sunday. The pastor, who is

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Speaker 1: self described as a gay priest, Father Fred Daily, welcome

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Speaker 1: to transgender the female to male Episcopalian to deliver the homily,

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Speaker 1: where he proceeded to speak about transitioning as.

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Speaker 4: Part of Pride Weekend. I'm very honored to welcome to

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Speaker 4: our ambo today mister Kevin Noble Ward, who will share

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Speaker 4: with us his journey to the truth.

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Speaker 3: I felt that I was a boy on the inside,

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Speaker 3: but everyone kept telling me that I was a girl.

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Speaker 1: Bob, your thoughts first on what is happening there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an outrage. Look, you put up a rainbow

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Speaker 3: flag inside the church. And this is what we were

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Speaker 3: talking about earlier with this new archbishop in the Brisbane

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Speaker 3: that if you talk about pastoral outreach to people, it

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Speaker 3: has to be done in a careful way. It has

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Speaker 3: to be done in a way that doesn't affirm them.

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Speaker 3: In what is disordered behavior, it is objectively disordered. It's

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Speaker 3: objectively disordered in biology as much as it is in

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Speaker 3: Catholic moral thought. But to do this and to take

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Speaker 3: a whole perish and drag them into this extreme position

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Speaker 3: within the church. I think that this is what is

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Speaker 3: likely to happen if we start getting too promiscuous, if

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Speaker 3: I put it that way in our pastoral outreach. Look,

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Speaker 3: you can be sympathetic to a ciner, we're all siners.

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Speaker 3: You can be sympathetic to the weaknesses when a person

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Speaker 3: breaks down, but you don't the sympathy doesn't extend to

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Speaker 3: actually almost celebrating what a person is doing, which seems

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Speaker 3: to me what is happening here. An activists love these

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Speaker 3: sorts of circumstances. It makes it look like the Church

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Speaker 3: is being brutally hateful towards certain groups of people, and

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Speaker 3: it puts pressure on those people who are who want

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Speaker 3: to resist this sort of decline within the church. So look,

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Speaker 3: it has all kinds of ramifications, and the best way

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Speaker 3: to deal with it is to snuff it out right

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Speaker 3: at the beginning, I just hope that the local bishop

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Speaker 3: well is adequate to the task.

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Speaker 1: Well, here's the continue part two of this story, same parish,

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Speaker 1: All Saints Church in Syracuse. The Bishop Douglas Luccia came

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Speaker 1: out with a statement. Because there was an LGBT flag

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Speaker 1: flying in front of the church, someone came and tore

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Speaker 1: it down. The bishop released this statement, I have learned

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Speaker 1: of the unfortunate incident regarding the Pride flag. It certainly

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Speaker 1: does not reflect the love and compassion that this month

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Speaker 1: dedicated to the Sacred Heart of Jesus wishes to promote.

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Speaker 1: End quote. The diocese later said liturgically, regularities with that

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Speaker 1: priest we talked about a moment ago would be discussed

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Speaker 1: with him by the bishop, and that there's a policy

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Speaker 1: of forbidding politically charged banners in front of a church.

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Speaker 1: But Bob, then why take such umbrage when it's taken down.

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Speaker 3: Well, see, I think this is the default position that

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Speaker 3: they all take. We're not hateful, you know, we're not exclusionary,

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Speaker 3: but it's not hateful to teach what the church teaches

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Speaker 3: because it's what God teaches. This is what our colleague,

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Speaker 3: Father Jerrem Murray, constantly emphasizes that it's actually a grace,

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Speaker 3: it's actually a loving act to tell people, look, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we'll work with you, we'll meet with you if you

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Speaker 3: need counseling, will help you. But We're not going to

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Speaker 3: put up flags to this when we don't put up

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Speaker 3: flags to a whole variety of other things that are

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Speaker 3: much closer into what the Catholic Church is all about.

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Speaker 3: There are people who even complain about American flags.

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Speaker 2: Inside of a church near an altar.

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Speaker 3: So look, I regret when bishops do this sort of

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Speaker 3: thing because I really think it's a half hearted response

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Speaker 3: to the situation. Okay, you want to defend Catholics. We

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Speaker 3: are not hateful, we understand that. But this is also

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Speaker 3: for some people Pride month, and I think our Sacred

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Speaker 3: Heart of Jesus, we could have had an image of

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Speaker 3: the Sacred Heart of Jesus that would be inviting people

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Speaker 3: in front of that church. That would have been far

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Speaker 3: more appropriate.

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Speaker 1: It was also announced this week Bob going internationally here

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Speaker 1: that a flourishing Cistercian abbey in Austria will receive an

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Speaker 1: Apostolic visitation in the fall. Now, an apostolic visitation is

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Speaker 1: when the Vatican authorizes a group of people to go

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Speaker 1: and investigate, so it's not just a visitation, it's an

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Speaker 1: investigation of that place, in this case, the Catholic Abbey

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Speaker 1: of the Holy Cross. Some reports say this investigation or

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Speaker 1: visitation was ordered by Pope Francis before his death. More

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Speaker 1: often than not, you know, this doesn't bode well for

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Speaker 1: the institutions. Now, we do know this is one of

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Speaker 1: Austria's large and most traditional monasteries, Bob. They're over one

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Speaker 1: hundred monks in residence, and the visitators will be a

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Speaker 1: Benedictine abbot, a religious sister who does not wear a habit.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think this visitation was cold and why

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Speaker 1: is it proceeding if it was instigated initially by under

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Speaker 1: Pope Francis's reign.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would hope that Leo would be alerted to

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Speaker 3: things like this and would be very cautious in proceeding

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Speaker 3: with him. Some of the reports seem to suggest that

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Speaker 3: one of the reasons why this abbey is being visited

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Speaker 3: is because they've raised a question of whether the way

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Speaker 3: citidelity has proceeded in the last several years, whether it

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Speaker 3: doesn't call into question the authority that ordained figures within

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Speaker 3: the church have over lay people. Actually, the whole question

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Speaker 3: of authority and obedience is something that Pope Leo studied

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Speaker 3: when he was doing his PhD at the Angelica University

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Speaker 3: in Rome, and so he may have some developed ideas

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Speaker 3: about this. I mean, he certainly seems to have run

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Speaker 3: things in a peaceful but pretty firm way everywhere he's been,

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Speaker 3: and I think that that already has come through in

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Speaker 3: the way he's conducted himself. But it looks very much

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Speaker 3: like this is coming in to either tell people to

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Speaker 3: get in line behind this kind of expanded idea of

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Speaker 3: who has authority along the lines of Cardinal Gretsch the

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Speaker 3: way we're just talking about it, and maybe even go further.

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Speaker 3: It's regrettable that all these places that seem to be

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Speaker 3: successful something simp in France. Hundreds of people are flocking

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Speaker 3: to these places because they like the certainty that's presented

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Speaker 3: as the church teaching. Obviously, you have to work throughout

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Speaker 3: your life to accommodate yourself to what the church teaches.

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Speaker 3: No one arrives and automatically becomes a saint. But the

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Speaker 3: places that seem to be attracting the most people and

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Speaker 3: have the most lively of Catholics are often the ones

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Speaker 3: like the TLM, like the traditional Latin Mass, who are

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Speaker 3: drawing scrutiny rather than a kind of a study which

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Speaker 3: would say, well, why is it precisely that these things

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Speaker 3: are succeeding.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Bob, look, this is a thought I had while

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Speaker 1: you were talking. I mean, they target these vibrant houses

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Speaker 1: of Orthodoxy, but there's a reason that there are large

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Speaker 1: numbers of seminarians and that's attractive. Rather than trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out what are they attracted to, let's replicate that.

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Speaker 1: It seems there's an incentive within the church to commit

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Speaker 1: Harry Carey and kill off the things that are working

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Speaker 1: and therefore scatter the seminarians, scatter those who are drawn

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Speaker 1: to this. It's a very peculiar, odd moment, and I

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Speaker 1: think it's a challenge for pop Leo at this moment

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Speaker 1: to address that. It's a crisis. You see it at

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Speaker 1: Bishop Ray in France, same deal had a large number

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Speaker 1: of young seminarians, but they wanted Orthodoxy, they wanted the

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Speaker 1: old Mass that became Foreboden. So it's like, we don't

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Speaker 1: want that type of seminary, and even if it means

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Speaker 1: we have none others, I'll give you the word on that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, we talk about this a lot, and

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Speaker 3: that actually Benedict the sixteenth had, I think had the

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Speaker 3: solution for this, and that is that you allow the

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Speaker 3: largest diversity of authentic Catholicism that fits within orthodoxy. I

435
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:27,719
Speaker 3: mean there are going to be, obviously people who are

436
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 3: more attracted, let's say.

437
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 2: To social justice issues.

438
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 3: There are going to be some that are going to

439
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 3: be more attracted to working with the poor.

440
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 2: You know, some are going to be attracted to the intellectual.

441
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 3: Life is going to be I mean, there's just there

442
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 3: are specific even religious orders devoted to these things, let

443
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 3: alone individual persons. And why why shut down, especially in Austria,

444
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 3: which is really hurting. I go to Austria every year

445
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 3: because we WUN a program in Eastern Europe, and I

446
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 3: go through Vienna every year, and some years it makes

447
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 3: my hair stand on. And some of the things I

448
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 3: see in the churches there, I mean you've probably seen

449
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 3: reported here in the West, some of the so called

450
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 3: artworks that are displayed and some of the activities that

451
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 3: take place inside those churches. Those activities are going to

452
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 3: drive people away. A place like this monastery is going

453
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 3: to attract monks, and it's also going to inspire lay people,

454
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 3: lay people who see that there is real Catholicism still

455
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 3: alive in Austria.

456
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, people were giving themselves to a faith, giving

457
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 1: themselves to something larger than their own lives and their

458
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 1: selfish wants. I mean, when you see a hundred monks,

459
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: I mean, my Lord, do everything you can to preserve

460
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: that rather than using one. You know, who knows there

461
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 1: might be one little error, but all of us have

462
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 1: little errors in a community, I mean, any community. There's

463
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 1: something wrong, Bob. But when you send the full force

464
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: of this is like the federal government coming in and

465
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 1: investigating a domestic dispute. You know, this is the Vatican

466
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: coming in and doing a full scale investigation. It really

467
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: ends well well. Echoing our discussion earlier, pop Leo's friend

468
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 1: who observed that Leo is a formal man who likes

469
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: to keep the form, the Pope spoke this week about

470
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: sacred polyphony chant, the blending of voices on different notes,

471
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 1: and you know, when you get that beautiful blend, he said,

472
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: this polyphony itself, moreover, is a musical form full of

473
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 1: meaning for prayer and for Christian life. He went on

474
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: to call the polyphonic tradition even today a point of

475
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: reference to look to, albeit with necessary adaptations. Bob, your

476
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 1: thoughts on the Pope's love of chance, sacred music and

477
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: that necessary adaptations life.

478
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I didn't know this, but I ran

479
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 3: across it in some article recently that he is a

480
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 3: gifted organist.

481
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 2: That already know that.

482
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 3: The head of the Augustinians right now said that he

483
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 3: would often play the organ at masses and he's actually

484
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 3: quite skilled at it. So wow, he himself is a

485
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 3: musician and he understands those sorts of things. I'm pleased

486
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 3: about this. There have been several figures on both if

487
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,360
Speaker 3: you want to call it this, the right the left

488
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 3: in the church, who have said that he's kind of

489
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 3: a centrist, he's kind of a moderate. It's one of

490
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 3: the reasons why both wings of the church were able

491
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 3: to come to an agreement on him so quickly during

492
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 3: the last conclave.

493
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 2: And I hope that really starts to play out.

494
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 3: And you know, one of the aspects of not just

495
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 3: well not polyphany, but many types of music is you

496
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 3: tolerate some odd notes now and then.

497
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 2: If you've ever read J. R. R.

498
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 3: Tolkien Silmarillion, which is his creation story, God sings the

499
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 3: universe into existence, and then the devils start introducing some

500
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 3: sour notes, but then God takes those sour notes and

501
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 3: like a jazz player kind of, he kind of integrates

502
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 3: them into an even more interesting chromatic tapestry than just

503
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 3: the usual things that you would expect in music. So look,

504
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 3: if he's really a musician, he's thinking in these terms,

505
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 3: and he's used that opportunity to talk about the way

506
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 3: the different voices blend. I would really like to see

507
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 3: that be developed in the way he governs, in how

508
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 3: he treats the different elements within the church, because God

509
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 3: knows we really need to be a little bit more

510
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 3: tolerant of authentic Catholicism, which doesn't mean narrowness, doesn't necessarily

511
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 3: even mean conservatism, but those different voices that can be

512
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 3: brought to a harmony, or if there are clashes, to

513
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 3: a resolution.

514
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 2: Of the harmony, to a harmony at a certain point.

515
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a beautiful way to describe. Let's hope the

516
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: path that Pope Leo proceeds down, and I hope he's

517
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: listening and watching. Actress Cynthia Arrivo, Bob, I'm going to

518
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: take you to pop culture for a minute of wicked fame.

519
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: She plays the Greenwich Elba. She will play Jesus in

520
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: a production of Jesus Christ Superstar the Hollywood Bowl in August.

521
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: Adam Lambert will play Judas, and other cast members are

522
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: still to be announced. She appeared in The Late Show

523
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: with Stephen Colbert, who couldn't be more thrilled that Jesus

524
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: will be portrayed by a woman.

525
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 5: Watch one of my favorite musicals of all time is

526
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 5: Jesus Christ Superstar.

527
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 2: I love that.

528
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 5: And I'm so excited that in August You're going to

529
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 5: be playing Jesus in Jesus Garcis Star.

530
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 2: At the Hollywood Balls. Yeah, at the Hollywood Bowls.

531
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: Yeah Yeah.

532
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 5: First woman to play Jesus in a major production. Long overdue.

533
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 5: I've said for years, I'd love to see a woman

534
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 5: in that part.

535
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: Bob, your thoughts, especially on this encouragement by Colbert.

536
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 3: Look, I think this is the recavation of our culture,

537
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 3: this idea that Jesus couldn't be who he was. We

538
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 3: talk in the Catholic Church about the incarnation. The incarnation

539
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 3: means God chose to become man, and in this case

540
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 3: particularly a male, and in this case in particularly a

541
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 3: Jew and someone in the Middle East. At what is

542
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 3: it referred to as in the fullness of time? What

543
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 3: does it tell us really that there has to be

544
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,959
Speaker 3: this so called alternative casting, I mean tells us that

545
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 3: who Jesus was in his incarnated state at the time

546
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 3: that God himself chose is not adequate to presenting Jesus

547
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 3: in the modern world. That's somehow a black lesbian woman

548
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 3: who's a singer is a better representative in the public

549
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 3: square of who Jesus is. I just don't get this,

550
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 3: or actually I do get it. What it is is

551
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 3: another way to try to advance confusion and smuggle in

552
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 3: ideas of race and of power and of sexuality where

553
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 3: they don't belong.

554
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 2: You just can look.

555
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 3: I love Shakespeare, and very often when I'm in London,

556
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 3: I will go to the Globe Theater, which is a

557
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 3: reconstructed model of Shakespeare's own theater back in the sixteen hundred.

558
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 3: That place has been absolutely wrecked by the alternative casting

559
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 3: that they do now. People sometimes are still good actors actresses,

560
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 3: but it tilts everything away from what we go to

561
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,479
Speaker 3: Shakespeare four And I think in the same way, why

562
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 3: do we go to a performance of a black lesbian

563
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 3: female Jesus.

564
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 2: It certainly isn't for the Jesus of history and the

565
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 2: Jesus of the church.

566
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: All right, let's move on. Pope Leo is speaking of

567
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: cinidality again. He addressed the bishops of Italy this week

568
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: about sinidality, saying, may sinidality become a mentality in your

569
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: heart and decision making processes and in ways of acting. Now, Bob,

570
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: is this a rebranding of sinidality or is this the

571
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: rehabilitation of Pope Francis is ephemeral version of it?

572
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 3: Well, I think what we have to do is we

573
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 3: have to see, as we've been saying all along in

574
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 3: this episode, what he's going to do when he.

575
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 2: Set out it.

576
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 3: You know, lots of people have pointed out, for example,

577
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 3: that when you are going to be talking about things

578
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 3: like LGBT in a synod, right, you want to get

579
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 3: authentic input about the question so that you can make

580
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 3: decisions that are as well based as they.

581
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 2: Possibly can be.

582
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 3: So who were invited to the last Senate, However, it

583
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 3: wasn't the people here in the United States are trying

584
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 3: to who are Orthodox but are trying to work with

585
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 3: people with the same sex attraction. It wasn't working with

586
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 3: people who work with young people who may be confused

587
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 3: and may think that their trans or something no what

588
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 3: we had was a selection and a deliberate selection. It

589
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 3: seems to me people all on one side of the

590
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 3: aisle with this. So look, if you want to listen

591
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 3: to all voices, fine, but let's make sure that it

592
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 3: is going to be all voices so that we do

593
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 3: come together in that harmony. Unfortunately, we haven't seen it

594
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 3: until now, and the proof will be in the pudding

595
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 3: that as the specific events take place, our specific decisions

596
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 3: are made that allegedly sonatyl I want to see who's

597
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 3: invited to have input.

598
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: Finally, Bob, the Archbishop of Los Angeles, Jose Gomez, has

599
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: waited into the immigration policy. This week, in an op

600
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: ed in his diocesan paper, Gomez argues that the US

601
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: needs quote a new conversation about immigration. He condemns the

602
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: mass deportations in the city of Los Angeles, saying the

603
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: government should quote judge each case on its merits your thoughts.

604
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: According to Archibisial Gomez, the conversation should be one that's

605
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: realistic and makes necessary moral and practical distinctions about those

606
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: in our country illegally. Sounds like he wants to separate

607
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: criminal aliens from illegal aliens who have come across the

608
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: border with no permission.

609
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 2: Well, look, I'm in agreement with him.

610
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 3: It would be good to have a national conversation and

611
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 3: to get Congress to do something about it. But we've

612
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 3: been talking about this for forty or fifty years. It's

613
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 3: like negotiating with Iran. I mean, you can negotiate to

614
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 3: le kaws Er home, but nothing ever really happens. Yeah,

615
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 3: two parties that just have two different visions of of

616
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 3: what a reform would be like. And I don't expect

617
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 3: in my lifetime, frankly, I'm going to see a Congress

618
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 3: that is going to pass a reform bill on immigration.

619
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 3: On the specifics. I've got to say, I'm somewhat in

620
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 3: sympathy with him. I've said this before that, look, if

621
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 3: you've a lot, someone came here ten twenty years ago,

622
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 3: they've been working, paying taxes, conducting themselves in a good manner.

623
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 3: The fact that we allowed them to be here for

624
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,479
Speaker 3: all this time establishes a certain moral responsibility on our part.

625
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 2: Now, I know this.

626
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 3: Sounds squishy, but it just seems to me that there

627
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,280
Speaker 3: is a moral complication there that the country has allowed

628
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 3: that to happen. With the more recent immigrants, I feel

629
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 3: a little bit less sympathetic because I think that they

630
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 3: took advantage, you know, tens of thousands, actually millions, took

631
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,280
Speaker 3: advantage of the fact that the border was essentially open,

632
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 3: flooded in, and I don't know that we have quite

633
00:34:54,360 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 3: as great a responsibility to adjunicate each one of those cases.

634
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: Look your heart breaks, Bob, because look I've been there.

635
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: When they come across the border. They're coming because they

636
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: were told the border was you know, Biden administration. I

637
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 1: was just looking at the stats. Sixty three thousand plus

638
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: immigrants came across the border with no permission at all. No,

639
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: they didn't get in line at all, no green cart, nothing.

640
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: They came across the border because, as you said, there

641
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: was a sense that the border was open. Now they

642
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,919
Speaker 1: get here, they're standing outside of home depot and there's

643
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: a criminal sweep through home depot and they get swept

644
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: up in it. Well, I understand, but they do violate

645
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 1: the current statute, which is you cannot enter the country illegally.

646
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 1: That is the federal law of the land.

647
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 3: No, and the archbishop, you know, rightly says that they

648
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 3: have to judge practicalities. But some of the practicalities our

649
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 3: immigration courts are already wildly over you know, over on

650
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,399
Speaker 3: you're booked. So even people who have dates to come

651
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 3: back to court hearings about whether they have refugee status

652
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 3: or whatever their status might be, it can take years

653
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 3: even for the regular process to work. And now if

654
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,399
Speaker 3: you're going to add ten million more, at least ten

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00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 3: million more people who have to be processed in some

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00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 3: fashion through a court system is utterly incapable of processing them.

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00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 3: I don't know what the response is possible, other than

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00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 3: to try to manage it as well we can. I

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Speaker 3: think that the people who are running ICE are primarily

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00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 3: focused on criminals. You rightly say, if there's a sweep,

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00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 3: some of these cases are going to be heartbreaking, but

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00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 3: the country has got to get a grip on.

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Speaker 1: Well, Bob, we will leave it there. And if you

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00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: like more of the Arroyo Grande Prayerful Posse, subscribe to

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00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 1: the Arroyo Grande Show on YouTube or a Royal Grande

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00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: podcast wherever you get your podcasts, and like this episode.

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00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 1: That means a lot, not only to us but to Bob.

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00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: Bob is a family to take care of them. You

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00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: want to help us, Like the episode on behalf of

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00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,959
Speaker 1: Robert Royal, Father Gerald Murray. Until the posse rides again,

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00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,720
Speaker 1: Stay the course and follow the light up Raymond Arroyo,

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00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 1: We'll see you next. Arroyo Grande is produced in partnership

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Speaker 1: with iHeart Podcasts and is available on the iHeartRadio app

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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts