WEBVTT - Selects: How Hoarding Works 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:03.760 Hey, everybody, it's your long lost cousin Josh. And for 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:07.080 this week's select, I chose our two thousand and eighteen 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:10.240 episode on hoarding. This is one of those eye opening 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:13.080 topics for me because I only knew of hoarding through 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:18.240 pop culture, and those portrayals are typically accurate to an extent, 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:22.520 but the problem is they usually missed the profound distress 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:26.560 and sadness that hoarders feel about their disorder. So prepared 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:28.880 to have your empathy Kate put on for you with 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:37.519 this one, and enjoy. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:46.760 a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:49.280 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's childs to have you, 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:52.920 Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry over there, and here we are 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:58.200 doing Stuff you should Know about hoarding. Yeah, Jerry's over 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:02.280 there under a stack of pizza boxes of newspapers. Yes, 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:06.479 but Jerry proudly displays them to anybody who comes into 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:09.199 the office and makes eye contact with her, which makes 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:12.640 her a collector of those things. A big difference. Well, yeah, 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:14.800 I didn't save your horder. She's a pizza box collector, 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:19.440 I got you. She likes those greasy after stains. Yes, 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:22.920 supposedly that prevents you from recycling pizza boxes. I think 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:25.119 we talked about it in one of our episodes before, 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:27.399 but I think that that's a p s A that 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:31.280 bears repeating. Yeah, I've never got a final answer on that, 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:33.880 so I throw mine in the recycling anyway. I don't 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:35.720 know if that comes up the works or not. Is 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:38.600 there a spectrum or anything like that, or you're like, oh, 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:42.399 this one is just so obviously loaded with cheese um 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:46.480 that I I can't possibly recycle this. Well, mine are 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.440 always loaded because I specifically request that the pizza be 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:52.240 delivered face down in the box. Do you It's a 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:55.200 little weird, but I like it that way. It's a 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:57.680 way to do it for sure, upside down pizza. Actually, 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:00.720 you know what I should do is just tear the 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:03.200 box in in half and at least recycled the top. 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:08.200 That I think you may have just solved the real problem. Yeah, alright, 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:12.200 I think we do need to do a follow up 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:15.640 recycling episode because I would imagine it's probably advanced by 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:19.000 leaps and bounds since we last discussed it. Yeah, and 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:22.519 here in my area of Atlanta, they quit taking glass 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:26.680 really a few months ago. Too heavy not enough payoff. 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:30.280 I think it was just yeah, and and or word 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:34.280 got out that they weren't even recycling it, so um. 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:36.840 Since then, they have set up places around Atlanta, one 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:40.880 specifically at the Edgewood Target Parking You know, there's a 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:42.720 bunch of stuff there, but in the Target parking lot 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:46.760 they have these huge glass recyclers there. And I meet 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:49.280 up with the fellow Whinos about once every two weeks. 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:54.120 We all shamefully toss in, you know, dozens of bottles 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:58.120 of empty wine, so much dead yellow tail. Yeah, and 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:00.840 we Now I don't drink that stuff, but we just 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:05.080 we It's nice. It's sort of like a wine meeting, 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:09.840 so much dead Paul Masson like a wine clatch. I'm like, God, 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:11.839 what are you throwing away there? How was that right? Really? 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:15.320 Have you gotten any recommendations from those chance encounters? It's 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:17.840 literally happened where we're you know, I would meet a 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:21.600 fellow why no, we're thrown away tons of bottles, And 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:24.320 then we decide to own our shame and be like, hey, 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:26.560 this one was pretty good, by the way, and start 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:29.000 up a conversation and then I get maced, Yeah you 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:31.960 take you take the bottle and go huh night train. 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:34.839 Haven't heard of this one? Right? Okay, that is try 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:36.920 and I like the handy grip of the bottle. I 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.240 never tried night train. Did you have that, dude? It's 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:42.000 it's a nightmare, is what it is. Yeah. I would 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.840 drink the like you don't even sober up before you 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:48.000 get a crushing headache from it. Right, it comes with 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:52.480 a headache, that's what says. Um. What would I drink? Um? 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:56.280 Mad dog mhm. Which you know there's a reason they 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:58.280 are sold right next to each other. Yeah, can you 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:03.120 even call those wine? No, it's not wine. It's wine 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:07.560 like Prudo gets wine like malt liquor is beer. It's related, 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:14.119 but it's drinking college. Sure. Remember the Nicky's big mouths. Yeah, 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:18.040 and cold forty five came in like gigantic like bottles. 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:21.159 That was one of the biggest attractions of it, you know. Yeah, 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:24.039 it was expensive, man, that was that was our jam 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:26.719 for a little while. I never got into this, I 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:28.039 know what you're talking about. Then't they have like the 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:31.400 like a question or a trivia thing or something on 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.279 the underside of it, the bottle, the lid. I don't know. Well, 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:38.080 there were the little green hand grenade bottles, little barrels, 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:42.760 and uh, I don't know which came first or after 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:45.800 it was either. I guess they switched to just the 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:52.080 regular like uh, Coca Cola style twist off cap metal 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:54.400 twist off, and I think they might. I think they 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:56.880 did have something underneath it. Act there was something under there. 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:58.919 Maybe it was like a poker game or a card 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:03.719 game or you just liver disease. But before that then 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:07.719 I think they had these really unique poll tabs because 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:09.640 it was a big fat mouth, Mickey's. That's why they 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:12.520 called it that Mickey's big mouth. So they had to 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:16.839 have a very unique um bottle cap poll cap that 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:20.320 was just sort of interesting. Back in the day, man, 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:23.200 back in the day when I was I'm not gonna 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:26.960 wrap now. And we're now refined with our beverage consumption, 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:31.200 Yeah yeah we are. I only drink Call forty five 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:33.560 out of a chilled glass. Now. I got a nice 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:36.080 whiskey bar set up at home that's separate from the 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:42.320 regular bar, Oh wow, with just like rise and Bourbons 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:47.680 and Scotches and Irish, and it's very little additional. Uh. 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:49.760 I've gotten out to where I will put in little 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:54.880 drops of little tinctures and shrubs and things. Oh yeah, occasionally, 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:58.120 shrubs are great. I made my own ones and it's 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:01.320 actually worth the effort. Yeah. My buddy Eddie, you know Eddie, 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:04.640 he makes his own. He actually does it in the 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:06.919 in the bottle, but he will he'll do like a 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:11.880 cherry bourbon or an apple like confused bourbon. Yeah. Those 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:15.640 shrubs though, man, uh, it's actually not very hard and 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:18.520 they last forever because what you're doing is basically I 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:20.960 don't know if it's fermenting or pickling or something, but 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.080 you're doing something to the fruit that you're mascerating with 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:27.160 the sugar, and it just lasts forever. It's just such 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:29.880 a nice little tangy pop. It's like kimchi. You gotta 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:32.839 bury it in your yard for kind of. It's close 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:37.120 to that, Actually it's not. It's like the Yankee version 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.040 of kim chi, but with fruit and you put it 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:43.600 in your booze. Well, this is all very hoardy, like, well, 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:46.599 hold on, even before we get into hoarding, we still 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:50.599 have another tangent to go on. Oh our earl buds. 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:56.679 Yeah yeah, let's let's announce it, okay, So Caroline Irvin 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:02.120 and Kristen Conger seriously, Well, I know it was it 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:05.560 was Conger, but she's since gotten married to she took 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:09.640 her husband's last name, remember, No, of course, Kristin Conger. No, 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:11.520 I don't know. If something tells me Conger did not 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:13.880 take his last name, right, right, I can see that 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:15.680 because then I would no longer be able to call 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:18.120 her Congs, which I know she loved. That's true, and 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:21.160 she was probably there the SoC Security administrates and thinking 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.200 I can't do this. What about Chuck? She thought of 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:27.240 that at any rate. Caroline and Kristen the former host 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:30.960 of UM Stuff Mom Never Told You, which is now 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:34.720 hosted by our pals um Emily and Bridget. That's right, 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:38.080 So Kristen and Caroline went off on their own and 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:43.400 they have now started a new podcast and this is 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:45.800 the this is the grand announcement here on stuff you 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:49.320 should know. That's right. It's called Unladylike and uh I 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:52.280 have I've heard the trailer, so it sounds great and 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:54.240 anything they're gonna do is gonna be great. They're just 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:57.760 they're pros. They really like. Uh. I know, Stuff Mom 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:01.160 Never Told You was started with Molly and Conger, but 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:04.080 when Caroline came along, it really just found its true voice. 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:10.480 No offense, Molly, and um, she just trashed her home office. Uh, 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:12.640 it's just a great show and Unladylike is going to 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:14.360 be awesome and a and I believe it's got a 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:17.320 bit of a different flavor with interviews and stuff like that, 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:20.680 but it is definitely going to be dealing with uh, 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:25.840 feminism and women's issues and oh yeah, advocacy and their 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:29.280 their logo is great. It's a big middle finger, which 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:33.360 is just so them. Yep. So they have a site up, 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:35.240 but I think you can get their podcast anywhere you 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:38.040 get podcasts, that's kind of how it works. But they 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:41.480 have a site as well called un lady Like dot 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:46.720 ceo super British, not dot com dot ceo. Okay, that's right. 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:48.480 So the best of luck, ladies. I'm sure it'll be great. 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.360 And uh, you're always on our minds and in our 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:54.440 hearts about that. It's so nice of you. Good luck 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:58.360 Caroline and Kristen. It's gonna be great. Now, can we hoard? Yes? 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:02.439 Long last, Oh let's take a commercial break show. Can 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:08.120 you imagine Mollywood tresh her home office again? So we're 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:13.200 talking hoarding today, believe it or not, everybody UM and I. 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:18.040 Basically everyone is fairly well aware of hoarding thanks to 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:22.360 a couple of high profile um reality TV shows about 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:27.320 hoarders and hoarding UM and then there have also been 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:32.160 appearances of hoarders in literature. So even before it kind 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:35.520 of became like part of the cultural awareness, it was 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:39.280 also already kind of there, like everybody thought, you know, 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:41.560 there's some guy out there who has a house full 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:43.360 of something that he picked up on the side of 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:46.520 the road, and his it's just accumulated and he can 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.600 barely get around his house. Like that was there before. 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.960 But thanks to those TV shows, which is actually which 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:58.600 actually sprung out of the first real research on hoarding 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:02.200 as its own disorder d UM from the early nineteen 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:07.319 nineties by a Smith College psychology professor named David o'frost 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:10.600 and then two of his students, Rachel Gross and Tamarra 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:15.640 hardel Um. Those three people together actually form the basis 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:19.760 of our knowledge about hoarding the disorder. They took it 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:22.240 out of the cultural reference, they took it out of 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:25.359 the realm of Freud and and they got it ultimately 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:27.480 all the way up into the d s M. Five 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.840 and two thousand thirteen, which is about the best you 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:34.000 can hope for is an undergrad psychology student. Yeah, you 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:39.120 get your d S M tattoo M to two yep uh. 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:41.320 And I believe those shows. One was called Hoarders and 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:45.640 one was called Jerry's Pizza Box Collection. No, Jerry's a collector. 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:49.760 Well it was Jerry's Pizza Box Collection, Colin, I'm not 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:53.760 a hoarder, right. It was a little little mouthie, little wordy. 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:56.000 The log line was, if you're looking for a show 0:10:56.000 --> 0:11:00.360 about a hoarder, keep looking. But if you like pizza 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:07.120 boxes and he doesn't speak eight seven central, be very 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:12.200 David lynche In. Just this mute woman walking around pizza boxes, blackout, 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:16.679 bar over most of her face everywhere. She would be great. Um, 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:18.480 all right, so we'll go ahead and get it going 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:21.760 with a stat here. Back in the day, I was statman, 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:28.240 remember that, of course, So I'm gonna reprise that role. Okay, 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:30.400 do you have a cape still? Oh yeah, that's on 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:33.720 see Oh yeah, I see it's probably I couldn't see 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:36.240 you weren't turned the right way. Uh well it's a 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:42.440 it's a thin cape for broadfellaw uh so estimates No 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:45.280 one really knows, because, like you said, it's very recently 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:48.800 that it's been recognized as its own disease um and 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:50.679 not a symptom of another thing, even though it is, 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:53.480 as we will see later, very much co morbid with 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:58.760 other other issues and mental illnesses. But despite the fact 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:01.600 that we don't know a ton about the stats, there 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:05.079 are estimates to say anywhere from point four percent two 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:11.480 as many as five that's high. Is this humans or humans? Americans? Humans? 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:15.680 Ah yeah, I think the general population, which that would 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:21.120 make its prevalence higher than schizophrenia. Wow. Yeah, which I 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:24.800 actually kind of believe if I stop and think about it. Well, 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:28.439 the thing is, though you don't this is and we're 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:30.320 going to talk about all this stuff, but it's not 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:33.320 often the kind of thing that presents itself out in 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:36.160 public because these people are hiding in their houses full 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:38.600 of stuff. No. No. And one of the things one 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:41.400 of the early misconceptions about hoarders that we'll see is 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:46.400 that it was mostly older people who were hoarding. But um, 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:48.320 it turns out that they're the ones who get thrust 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:53.800 into the limelight because it's a progressive chronic disease r exactly. 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:57.600 So by the time the news media becomes aware of 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:01.359 this and drags these pour people out into the lime. Lie. Um, 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:05.160 their their hoard has gotten very big and they have aged. 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:10.439 So that's why we initially thought that just older people 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:13.480 were hoarders. It turns out it actually starts far earlier 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.360 in life. Typically. Yeah, like I show about a twelve 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:21.120 year old with one corner of their room too messy. Yeah, 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:23.640 just looking at it like this is gonna be huge 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.920 one day. And we're joking here, but this is a 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:30.520 serious mental illness. But we we joke about all kinds 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:32.480 of things. So I don't want anyone to get upset 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:34.680 about things like that. No, No, if you're new to 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:39.640 the podcast, go listen to the comas episode. That'll set 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:41.920 things straight. All right. So some of the symptoms of 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.720 hoarding um, and we're we're going to get into also 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:48.960 in a bit to the I Guess myths. And separating 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:51.600 those two is really important because it's very easy for 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:55.720 someone to very dismissively say, oh, they're a hoarder because 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:59.000 they have a lot of stuff. Um. And my family, 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:03.240 my in laws, well, let me let Steve off the hook. 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:09.480 Specifically my mother in law, my grandmother in law, Mary, 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:11.920 the eldest general of the stuff you should know Army 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:18.480 and uh my aunt Sue, Sharon two and Mary. They 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:20.280 have a lot of stuff and we call it the 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:25.200 disease sort of as a joke, um, but they're actually well, 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:27.160 they're not hoarders at all, but they got a lot 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:30.000 of stuff they have a hard time throwing away, you know, 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:32.840 the stuff that they had that they think someone in 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:35.640 the family might want. But I think that stuff that's 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.600 that's pretty typical. A lot of people are like that, 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:41.920 and a lot of people have a basement room with 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:46.000 a lot of junk in it out of being too 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.640 busy or lazy, or maybe just a bit of the 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:50.880 disease where you just like I can't bear to part 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:53.280 with it even though I really should. But that is 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:58.360 not hoarding. Well, so my question would be, then have 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:00.840 you ever seen them and do you feel like they 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:05.720 have the ability to clear out like the attic or 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:10.360 donate some of the stuff like they can't they have 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:13.080 the ability to part with the stuff. There have been 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.600 pushes at various times, like when they're moving and stuff 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.640 like that. Of course it's a good time to do that. Um, 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:22.760 it is always a bit of a painful experience. But 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:25.680 I think, like I said, everyone's got a little not everyone. 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:29.720 Some people are so unsentimental that they'll just back the 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:33.000 dumpster up and just empty their house into it and 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:35.880 say I'll get a new drunk But um, it's a 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:40.440 good way to move, Yeah, exactly, but they it is 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:44.640 a little bit of a hard time. And very famously either, Um, Charlie, 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:50.720 there Emily's grandpa who who left us on our wedding day. Um, 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:55.480 he famously passed away with like you know, buckets have bent, 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:59.000 rusty nails. But he was not a hoarder. He was 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:02.000 legitimately one of these guys. He was like, I can 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.840 straighten these and reuse them one day. And he believed 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.600 in the value of just not throwing everything away, which 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:09.800 is great. So let me ask you this though he 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:12.880 would he would say kind of with pride, like look 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:16.280 at all these awesome nails that I'm not wasting you chump, No, 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.320 not at all. It was just um, was he ashamed 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:21.440 of his bucket of nails? No, he would. He would 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.560 occasionally get out a nail and straighten it and use it, 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.160 and it was just everyone in the family knew, Like 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.800 you know, Charlie, he did grow up in the Great 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.640 Depression and as we will see. That is one of 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:36.360 the myths that, oh, all these people just grow up 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:38.480 in the depression, so they value things more. That is 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.760 not the case. There's no tie to that. But he 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:44.000 is one of those gentlemen who grow up in the 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:46.920 Great Depression, and and I love that attitude. We're in 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:50.280 such a disposable frame of mind. I think that they 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:53.880 the depression thing has kind of come back for the 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:58.960 generation behind us, where they value things a bit more. Good. Yeah, 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:03.320 you know, because the posibility of products and just everything. 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:05.639 Just pulling a dump strip to your back door and 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:08.240 pushing your stuff out as a means of moving. Yeah, 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:10.040 we're like, I'll just that thing didn't work. Well, I 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:11.960 could probably get repaired, but screw it. I'll get another one. 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:16.320 It's only twenty bucks. Things like that, Like it kind 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.080 of drives me nuts. So I'm oh, wait, my phone 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:22.560 has has a new version of my phone has just 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.600 come out. So now the company that made my phone 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:28.399 is remotely slowing my phone down, so I have to 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:30.879 throw it away and go buy another one. That's definitely 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:33.840 part of the problem as well. You know, it's funny. 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:38.200 I can totally see Grandpa Charlie saying everybody gather around 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:41.080 getting a nail out of his rusty nail buckets, straining 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:43.760 it and just driving it right through the webbing of 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:47.840 his hand as a party trick. That's what I thought 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:50.720 of when when you said, yeah, every once in a a 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:52.560 while he get a nail out and straighten it and 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:55.639 use it. That's what I would think. You know, what 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:58.880 were the people that he's a beenhead? People that would 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:02.080 drive the nail through there? Yeah, the blockhead That's what 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:03.960 it was. Blockheads. Yeah. I can't believe you did a 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.359 whole podcast on that. That shows a good one too. 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:10.480 Um alright, So number one on the symptoms though, uh 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:15.479 is you literally have an inability two to get rid 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:18.120 of things and to stop acquiring things. So you may 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.200 if you go into a hoarder's home, you may go 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.280 into their closet and see a wrack of clothes with 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.600 tags on them because they're like, oh, just this is 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.240 on sale. It's such a good deal. I feel like 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:32.600 I just have to get it and then it's unworn 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:36.639 a decade later. Yeah. So, so the early researchers David 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:41.160 Frosten is two students um Tamra Hartle and Rachel Gross. 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:44.240 They initially I think it was specifically Rachel Gross and 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:47.920 David Frost. Sorry, but they that first study that they 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:51.239 did on hoarders, they assumed that, um, it would be 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:54.760 all just junk like stuff nobody could possibly want, and 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.480 they were really surprised when they toured some of their 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:00.600 their study participants homes and found like stuff still in 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.720 the package, like clothes, perfectly fine clothes that had never 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:07.360 been worn, but piles up to the ceiling that we're 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:10.480 now had now taken over the kitchen, you know what 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:13.239 I'm saying. That's the difference between being like, oh, this 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:15.040 is actually a pretty good deal, I could use this 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:19.200 someday and hoarding. They they basically won't pass up a bargain. 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:21.520 It's one of the ways that they might acquire something. 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:24.920 My mom has a little bit of that, you mean. 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:28.760 I went through an open house once and I've never 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:33.159 seen more clothing owned not just by one person, by 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:37.520 several families put together. But it was just one lady's clothes, 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:39.879 and like they had built on like an addition to 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:43.280 their attic and their garage top and that was just 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:46.359 filled with clothes more close than anyone could possibly wear. 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:49.080 And we noticed that like some of them still had 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:51.560 the tags on. Were like, God, this lady has so 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:54.840 many clothes. Now, looking back after researching this, I'm like, 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:59.359 she definitely had a touch of the hoarders disorder. I 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:01.920 guess she had a little bit of the hordes. Yeah, 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:04.119 it didn't spill out into the rest of her house, 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:07.600 so either she it was just a touch of it, 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:12.120 or her family was keeping it in check. But there 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:15.119 was definitely you you wouldn't believe me if I if 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:17.800 I told you how many just sweaters and shirts and 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:23.960 dresses this lady had. Give me a number, how many sweaters? Sweaters? 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:30.040 I know you're one of your superpowers of sweater guestimating right, 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:34.000 sweaters and chili beans. I would say, just from what 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:39.040 we saw, she easily had two hundreds something sweaters easily. 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:42.160 And those were just the sweaters. Man, that's not including 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:48.359 like tops, blouses, dresses. She had so many clothes. Yeah, 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:52.359 my friend Ryan, I won't say his last name, he uh, 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:55.400 his dad very famously had a h and I don't know, 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:58.480 you know what I asked him last time I saw him, 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:01.080 and I can't remember the answer now, but at one 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:06.720 point his dad had like warehouses with stuff because he's 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:09.080 like a dream hoarder. Yeah, but I don't know if 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:11.359 it was hoarding either, because as you will see there 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:14.760 as we go on, there are very specific definitions, and 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:17.960 just because you want warehouses full of stuff doesn't necessarily 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:21.040 mean you're a hoarder, you know. Yeah, what was his stuff? 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:26.440 I don't know, huh. I'll find out and follow up. 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:29.399 But getting back to the inability to stop acquiring, one 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:32.639 of the key points about not getting rid of stuff 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:35.160 is they're holding onto things with no value at all, 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:39.679 like even sentimental value. Like when you have stacks and 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:44.160 stacks of newspapers and magazines for for decades and decades. 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:48.920 Those don't hold sentiment about sentimental value, any monetary value 0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:51.560 unless you happen to have like the moon landing stuff 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:55.440 in there or something. Um, you know, it's just it's 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:58.680 like literally it's junk, right, it can be. It can 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:01.439 also be stuff that like is actually useful and somebody 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:05.560 would want this unopened, unworn dress or something like that. Right, 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:07.879 So it can go either way. But the point is 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:12.000 they can't stop acquiring stuff. They can't help themselves. That's 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:14.800 that's part one, Part two, And these things are part 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:18.439 and parcel with one another is they can't bear to 0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:21.080 give any of it up, like you said, even if 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:24.199 it's totally useless, even if it doesn't have any actual, 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:27.199 real emotional value. But that is a big one that 0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:29.240 a lot of them point to, is like they say, well, no, 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:33.439 this means a lot to me or um. Another another 0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:37.399 explanation or another rationalization among hoarders is that like they're 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:40.080 they're they're just kind of stockpiling. They might need all 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:45.800 these clothes one day, the event that never happens, right exactly, 0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:49.560 and um. The other one I think is that they 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:54.440 use it as a reminder. Apparently there's a um there's 0:22:54.440 --> 0:23:01.000 a correlation between faulty recall or um inaccurate memory or 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:04.120 a lack of trust in one's own memory and hoarding. 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:06.960 And so some hoarders will say, well, I keep this 0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:08.520 to remind me that I have to do this in 0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:10.840 the future, remind me to get in touch with this person. 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:15.120