WEBVTT - Cathie Wood and Rebecca Kacaba Talk Ark Investment and Dealmaker Joining Forces 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:06.960 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:11.800 We welcome back our Bloomberg Radio, TV and YouTube audiences 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:16.040 worldwide here on the Close with a discussion about unlocking 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:19.160 venture capital. Well that's the mission of our next two guests, 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:22.439 who are working to expand access to opportunities usually just 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:25.520 reserved for the big guys, the institutional investors. Joining us 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:27.960 right now is kind of well, the face of the 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:30.960 retail rise of the retail investor, Kathy Would. She's a 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:33.840 CEO of ARC invest You know her. She's joined alongside 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:36.720 Rebecca Cassava. She's co founder and CEO of a company 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:40.479 called deal Maker, which is revolution how revolutionizing how companies 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:44.599 raise capital by providing a tech driven platform for companies 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:46.879 to use. Welcome to both of you, and I'm going 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:49.120 to start with you, Rebecca. We all know Kathy and 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:52.519 we all know just how responsible she is for a 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:55.480 lot of sot of I guests, the democratization, if you will, 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:59.120 of a lot of investment vehicles. You're also doing something similar, 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:01.000 and I'm wondering if you just kind of explain how 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:03.360 deal Maker fits into that landscape. 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:07.039 Sure things, So, what we're doing is bringing a really 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:11.720 technology driven approach to raising capital. If you think about it, 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:15.360 if you rein invented capital raising today, it would be 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:17.960 on the intranet, it would be data driven, and it 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:19.240 would be democratized. 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:21.520 And so that's what our technology brings. 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:25.040 It essentially allows you to run ad campaigns and target 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:28.280 investors who might be interested in your deal based on 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:29.640 their digital profile. 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:32.720 I am curious, Kathy about these new types of platforms. 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:35.000 We talk about the evolution of financial markets. We went 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:37.360 from a day and age where financial markets were just 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:40.080 for institutional investors. Then you had, of course, the rise 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:43.280 of mutual funds and then ETFs of course, and then 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.440 now a lot of new products in the private space 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:49.080 and now trying to draw in individual investors. This is 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:50.720 just the natural evolution as you see it. 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:54.800 Yes, it's natural in a way. 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:59.600 But I think during COVID it was turbo charged a 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:03.760 lot of especially younger people who would not meet the 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:11.519 accreditation standards. They were learning about new companies, investing themselves, 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:15.079 trying to figure out what these new technologies were all about, 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:18.520 and you know, happened upon private companies to which. 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:20.520 They had no or little access. 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:24.320 And I think because of that, and because I know, 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.720 we started our venture fund for that reason, they came 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:31.040 to us and said, you know, how is it. You know, 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:34.720 we don't have enough, We don't make enough money two 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.600 hundred and fifty thousand dollars per year, I think it is, 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:42.320 and we don't have a million dollars in net worth 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:46.720 to become accredited and have access to these you know, 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:52.240 incredible technologies early in their lifetimes. Can you help us 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.000 solve that problem? And so yes, that's why we started 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:59.960 our venture fund. It has no carry and people can 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:06.560 have access to SpaceX and open AI and thropic xai. 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:10.480 X for as little as five hundred dollars. 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:14.480 Okay, So that's one solution to democratizing access of these 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:18.760 companies to everyday individual investors. Kathy, could you explain a 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:21.480 little bit about what it is that ARC is doing 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:22.840 with a deal maker? 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:33.120 Well, actually, our venture team met Rebecca recently and I 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:36.480 have yet to be briefed on exactly what we're doing together. 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:39.240 Maybe Rebecca would want to talk about how far a 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:39.880 long we are. 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:44.119 Yeah, I think it's opportunities like this where we can 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:47.880 understand we can talk to Washington about what the investors 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:50.720 and what the companies want. Like deal maker is taking 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:53.560 a slightly different approach on it, where we see retail 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:57.120 investors having a bit of a distrust of institutions today 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:00.840 and companies wanting that one to one relationship with the brand. 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:04.720 And so we're both two different businesses taking a totally 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:08.600 different approach to the retail market, but understanding the power 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:11.200 of this and how it can be transformative for the 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:14.000 capital markets in a lot of different ways, because let's 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:15.800 face it, there's a lot of ways that the capital 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:19.240 market's ecosystem is broken that both what ar kids doing 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:21.560 and deal maker is doing can help solve. 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:24.880 I was kind of going, I'm sorry, yeah, so. 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:30.120 That's what I thought had happened. We are so like minded. 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:35.920 Charlie Roberts, who leads our VC effort, and Rebecca met 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:41.039 at a conference and we just thought, Okay, we're both 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:44.000 going at this from in a little bit of a 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:48.680 different way, from different angles, but this idea of democratization 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:52.440 is in its very early stages, so let's make sure 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:54.240 we both encourage it. 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:54.719 Right. 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.160 You both encounter the same issues and you're looking to 0:04:57.200 --> 0:04:58.360 solve it in your own ways. 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:01.480 So We'rebecca. Can you talk a little bit about the biggest. 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:04.159 Pain points of capital raising that founders tend to face 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:05.680 and how deal maker solves for that. 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:10.320 Yeah, I mean, ultimately, access to capital is a challenge 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:12.919 for a lot of investors, right, It's very difficult to 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:16.120 get VC investment that actually finds a very small part 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:19.039 of the ecosystem. And then there's a lot of brands 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:22.040 that retail investors love and they want to participate in 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:24.599 and they can help amplify amplify the. 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:25.840 Business in a different way. 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:29.760 So we have technology companies, you know, Monograms building a 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:34.000 robotic need surgery arm where they've got retail investors forming 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:37.279 all of their beta users and really supporting bringing that 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:40.839 business to life and driving revenue for them. So the 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.159 reality is that businesses are built online today and there's 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:47.599 a lot of different ways that retail can interact with 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:50.120 these brands to help propel them forward. 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:52.919 Was there any issues when you were starting this, Rebecca, 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:56.840 and was there any issues about regulatory concerns? I mean, 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.360 we know that regulators is, particularly here in the US, 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:02.000 look over the shoulders and they sort of I think 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:04.000 kunt of Kathy alluded to. Look, they're saying, look, you 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:06.000 don't have the net worth, so you must not be 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:09.440 sophisticated enough to buy this type of vehicle. How did 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:12.120 you navigate that regulatory side of this when you were 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:14.000 coming up with this idea and building out the business. 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:16.599 Okay, well, shameless bug. 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:19.159 I think the regulators were brilliant in the way that 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:24.600 they designed the legislation because the legislation protects investors already, 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:27.039 So they put a cap on the amount that a 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:30.360 retail investor can invest when they're not accredited, so they're 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:33.280 not going to lose their shirt on any one single offering. 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:36.240 Because we know some offerings are going to succeed and 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:39.640 some offerings are going to fail, and so the main 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:42.440 thing that we're driving for here is to make sure 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:46.120 that the investors are protected, and the legislation did that already, 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:48.640 and so there's a bill in the House right now 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:51.840 that's probably going to pass with the new administration that 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.120 we're going to see the exemption limits go up from 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:57.280 seventy five million to one hundred and fifty million. You've 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:59.440 also got FIT twenty one, which is going to bring 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:02.039 a lot of interest to the crypto space. So we 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:05.480 see the snowball just rolling now in terms of retail 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:06.880 access to alls. 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:09.279 Kathy, I do have to kind of ask you about 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:12.240 the climate in Washington, and I know you have a 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:15.240 lot of friends, either business wise or personal in the 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:18.560 incoming administration coming in. And there's been a euphoria I'm 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:21.120 sure you've seen it ever since November fifth, even slightly 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:24.520 before that, when it became somewhat clearer that Trump was 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:27.040 likely going to win. He's promising obviously a much more 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:30.720 business friendly administration, one of deregulation. At the same time, 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:34.000 he's also pitching fiscal policies that could potentially have some 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:37.000 economic impact to the negative side. I am curious as 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:40.040 to I guess what type of euphoria you're feeling, and 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:43.040 more importantly, what type of caution, if at all, you're 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:43.760 feeling as well. 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:45.239 Well. 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:49.720 If you look at the performance of our funds since 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:57.040 the election, they've far outpaced the market, outpaced the mag 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:00.320 seven and so forth. So I think of what the 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:04.200 market is beginning to say is this administration is going 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:10.480 to support innovative strategies, anything that will accelerate the growth, 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:17.320 increase the productivity of our economy. Deregulation is going to 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:21.560 be we think a very large part of that tax incentives, 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:27.040 tax rate cuts as well. You mentioned the perhaps the 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:31.080 cutback in government spending programs. You know, in our mind, 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:35.760 government spending longer term is taxation in one form of 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:39.320 the other. It's got to be paid for with increased 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:47.559 taxes now, increase taxes later, or basically through inflation inflating 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:51.680 away the debt. And so we think that's going to 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:57.200 be very positive. This drive towards increasing the efficiency of 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:02.320 the government, which will then limit the kinds of tax 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:07.520 increases we've seen over the last few years, and perhaps 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:11.280 even continue to roll back taxes, leaving more for the 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:15.760 private sector at the expense of sort of inefficiencies in 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:16.720 the government sector. 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:21.120 So Kathy following on that, the President elect has outlined 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:23.480 a number of initiatives that he wants to put in 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.640 place as soon as he is inaugurated on January twentieth. 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:30.160 Of the different proposals of pro growth items that he 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.840 has on his to do list, which do you think 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:36.080 needs to be prioritized. Is it tax cuts, is it 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:42.440 immigration reform, tariffs, is it deregulation? Which of those things 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:43.400 should be at the top. 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:47.360 Well, consider the source. 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:52.800 So my answer might be different from President elect Trump's answer, 0:09:52.920 --> 0:10:00.040 but in terms of turbocharging growth, I think if tax rates, if. 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.200 This administration is going to cut tax rates. 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:06.040 The most important thing it has to do is make 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:11.200 sure they're retroactive to January first of twenty twenty five, 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:15.679 because and we learned this from the Reagan administration, if 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:22.880 they defer or or phase in tax cuts, businesses and 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:27.320 individuals will wait for the lower tax rates and that 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:36.240 can weaken economic activity. Beyond that, deregulation critically important. I 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:40.520 think one of the reasons venture capital has had so 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:46.240 much trouble during the last few years and strategies in 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:51.960 the innovation space, especially in life sciences, is because M 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:56.120 and A has been prevented by the FTC. That is 0:10:56.160 --> 0:11:00.560 going to change, so we are finally going to have 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:08.440 price discovery as strategic buyer's bid for these innovative companies. 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:11.280 We'll see how much they're really worth. This has not 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:14.840 happened in a long time. We also think therefore there 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:19.800 will be liquidity events for private companies into the public world, 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:21.560 which is also going to become very important. 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:23.440 Well, Rebecca, I'd like to get your thoughts on that 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:25.200 as well, because when you look at the data for 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:27.040 certainly in the first half of the year, I mean, 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:30.199 VC funding activity was abysmal. We saw definitely a bit 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:31.960 of a pickup in three Q. I'm not sure what 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:34.960 the fourth quarter has shown, but are you optimistic we're 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:37.240 going to see more VC activity kind of to the 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:39.240 point of what Kathy was talking about in terms of 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:43.040 the catalysts, is that going to really push this industry forward? 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:46.640 It definitely feels that way, it really does. 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:49.600 I think the momentum is there, the street is excited 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:53.600 and feeling the effects of deregulation. And you know, one 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:56.199 of the benefits that we saw over the down market 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.840 activity was that retail investors stay strong. Like while VC 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:05.240 activity did, retail investment continued to pull through and continue 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:07.480 to carry a lot of the capital markets, which was 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:11.559 what Congress intended when they originally passed the legislation. So 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:15.160 we expect to just consider that upswing continuing. 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:18.559 Kathy, you had mentioned the ARC Venture Fund. I'm wondering, 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:22.200 with this new administration coming in, the deregulation that you 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.360 talk about and the things that they can do to 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:28.600 really get the economy going and get companies going, do 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:33.280 you think that startups will choose to stay private less. 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:36.800 They'll start to look to the public markets as an 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:39.000 engine of growth more so than they have in the 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:39.920 past couple of years. 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:45.679 Well, it depends if again, if there's more deregulation and 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:50.760 if the red tape associated with going public starts to disappear. 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:56.800 Any company that wants to scale very quickly, and especially 0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:01.240 if they have anything, if they are at a higher 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:05.160 fixed cost base. The robotics industry would be one example 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:10.040 of this, they would probably scale faster in the public market. 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:14.360 So we think it would be fantastic to have both 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.920 markets operating efficiently efficiently. 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:19.920 One encouraged by more M and A. 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:24.600 Activity as we change the leadership at the FTC, and 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:31.720 the other one just enjoying the lower red tape associated 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:37.520 with less regulation. So we think this administration is going 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:40.360 to be very pro business and is going to be 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:43.560 that's going to be a big reason that the growth 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:46.240 rate of the economy is going to accelerate in the 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:46.960 next few years. 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:49.280 Kathy, I do want to get your thoughts on Elon 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:52.800 Musk and his role in this administration, particularly given we 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.120 know that arc is invested in many, if not all, 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:57.200 of his companies. He's wearing a lot of hats and 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:00.640 now he's got the Washington hat on in theory starting 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:04.520 in January. I mean, how much do you think he 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:06.719 can do given that he's not technically going to be in. 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:07.520 An official role. 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.160 And do you worry at all that his work in 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:13.000 Washington might come at the expense of the attention to 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:14.040 his actual companies. 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:18.280 Well, I think one of the reasons he he is 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:22.520 dedicated to this is because his own companies have faced 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:28.800 such regulatory pressures and obstacles, and he just knows he 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:32.040 could change the world even faster than he already has 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:36.080 if he got some of those obstacles out of the way. 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:39.040 But Kathy Kenny do that safely though, And I'm just 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.200 playing devil's advocate here. I mean, a lot of those 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:43.680 regulations are you know, you know, kind of meant to 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:45.720 kind of protect the consumer to a certain extent from 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.720 car crashes or whatever. You know, it's one thing to 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:50.760 move fast and break things, as another, you know, to 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:51.600 break your customer. 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:53.160 No. 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:58.080 I think if you listen to elon Musk and safety 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:02.200 and focus on del lighting the end consumer. You know, 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:06.080 Tesla has the safest cars in the world, and yet 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:10.520 the regulators in the last four years have focused on 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:14.640 almost every accident and fatality in an accident in a 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:18.960 Tesla car, as opposed to in the other forty thousand accidents. 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:23.160 So I think that he understands that there is an 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:27.720 important place for regulation, that safety of the consumer is 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:32.400 paramount that we're not going to dilect, We're not going 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:36.880 to neglect that. But there is such a thing as 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:40.840 regulation gone too far. I've seen statistics that in the 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:45.120 last four years, regulations piled one on top of the 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:51.640 other and from different departments have taken six percentage points 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:53.120 off of real GDP. 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:55.520 So that has to change. 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:57.520 And also to that point, though, Kathy and I want 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:00.000 to this question as to you, Rebecca, and it really 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.080 has to do about the idea of business creation. There's 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:04.400 been a lot of stats about how business creation is 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:06.960 just really just shrunk. Now, some of that's just because 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:08.920 of the pandemic and a few other things, but there 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:12.360 has been a lot of theories about government regulation, government 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.000 oversight maybe putting a little bit of a squash on that. 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:18.160 Do you hear from that with some of the startups 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:20.040 and the entrepreneurs that you deal with on a day 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:21.080 to day basis. 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:22.520 Yeah, for sure. 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.400 I Mean when Elon said so himself, right, when Elon 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:27.840 can build the rocket faster than he can get it 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:31.200 approved to launch, you know, you've got a fundamental problem 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:34.640 that's slowing down innovation. So of course, as a tech CEO, 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:37.920 I'm very excited to see what he can accomplish applying 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:43.840 engineering concepts to government as retail capital from direct to 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:47.520 investor retail. We saw even in a down market, five 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:50.800 issuers that raised on deal Maker go public on NASDAC 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:53.440 during the last year. So I think as we open 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:58.400 up new categories, new ways of building businesses and having 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:01.320 those be digital and what that means means there's different 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:04.119 things that are going to emerge and different trends that 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:06.399 are going to emerge. And definitely one of the trends 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:09.320 that we saw was a lot of our companies are 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:13.520 tech and robotics companies and now more emerging sports sports 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:15.919 teams as well. We're going to see a whole different, 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:18.959 changing landscape of companies going public sooner. 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.199 Kathy, I can't resist asking about Tesla since we were 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.919 talking about Elon Musk. I know that your funds have 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:28.800 been actively trading this week. Are fund sold about one 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:32.080 hundred and sixty four thousand shares of Tesla this week. 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:36.200 I'm guessing this is tactical, but I'm wondering if post election, 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:39.560 there's a fundamental change in the story when it comes 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:41.440 to Tesla. 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:45.080 Well, I think one of the changes, again back to regulation, 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:51.680 is the likelihood that autonomous mobility, so robotaxis are going 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:55.160 to be regulated not on the state level so fifty 0:17:55.160 --> 0:18:01.840 different regulators, but on the federal level. Autonomous vehicles will 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.359 travel from state to states, so it really should be 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:09.320 federal legislation. So I think that will speed up the 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:14.520 move towards autonomous taxi networks. And I do believe for 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:19.520 that reason, investors analysts are starting to model out what 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:23.000 that will mean to the Tesla model. It will take 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:29.679 their gross margins from mid teens right now up into 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:35.040 the sixties if we are right, because robotaxis and autonomous 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:39.160 taxi network is a SaaS model. I think the other 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.760 thing that has happened is more and more people are 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:47.760 seeing videos of the humanoid robot doing all sorts of 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:51.680 things that we didn't think were possible as the dexterity 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:53.520 in its hands get so much better. 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:55.679 Yeah, and to your point, analysts over at me Zuho 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:58.760 do see idiosyncratic tailwinds over the next four years for 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:02.280 a company like Tesla, upgrading their price target there so 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:05.679 when it comes to autonomous vehicles and all that. There 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:09.080 are reports that Honda and Nissan are exploring some kind 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:11.400 of tie up, maybe a merger. W what a combined 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:16.120 company create a worthy competitor to Tesla or Chinese eatia 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:17.040 makers even. 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:22.560 Well, I think that anytime there is a combination of 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:26.800 two companies, takes a while for the integration to take place. So, 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:30.880 if anything, we would think if there is a competitive 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:35.479 dynamic from those two companies associated with autonomous that it 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:43.160 will be delayed. More competition for evs is coming from China, 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:47.760 no question. Now we have very big tariffs already in 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:51.760 place to prevent that here in the United States, and 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:55.760 we'll see what happens with the administration. I think that 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:59.760 Elon Musk is not worried about competition. If we're talking 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:05.119 abou about Tesla, He's driving the cost curves down dramatically 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:08.679 for his own company, So he's not worried about losing 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:11.159 the EV tax credits either. He doesn't need them. He 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:13.760 will be profitable. Tesla will be profitable without them. 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:15.480 Katy, I do want to pivot here and ask you 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:17.760 about some of the market action, particularly over the last 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:20.720 few months, and particularly when it comes to crypto. I'm 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:23.159 sure you've seen the big run up in bitcoin above 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:26.000 briefly above one hundred grand, now back below that today, 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:29.359 but certainly phenomenal run on a year to date basis 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:32.200 from where it was just a few months ago. Here 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:35.960 do you still sort of see bitcoin really hitting some 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:39.520 of those lofty milestones that you've talked about before. I mean, 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:41.760 one hundred thousand is still a long way from a million. 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:44.639 I do kind of wonder how much further you think 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:45.560 this could actually go. 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:51.920 Well, what's interesting about bitcoin today? Now that we're going 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:58.640 to get more regulatory green lights, we're seeing institutional investors 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:03.800 focus on this new asset class, and as they're learning 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:08.000 about it, they're saying, wait a minute, this new asset class, 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:11.720 or this component of a new asset class, Bitcoin is 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:15.760 going to reach twenty one million units out there, twenty 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:19.199 one million bitcoin out there at its peak, and no 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:20.080 more from there on. 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:21.440 Where are we now? 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:25.520 We're all ready above nineteen and a half million units. 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:31.040 And so if institutional investors are looking at this new 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:36.040 asset class more seriously, and bitcoin is really the first 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:38.200 of its kind in a new asset class, and we 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:44.480 believe the biggest opportunity of them all, they must consider 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:49.720 an allocation and so supply demand. They're doing the arithmetic, 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:53.680 and we see a million to a million and a 0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:58.120 half by twenty thirty that the probability of that has 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:00.680 increased because of institutional. 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:02.160 Okay, so that's six years from now, and I understand 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:04.680 the supplied demand dynamics. But Kathy, I'm sure you're also 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:07.040 very aware of some of the main criticisms that there 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:09.639 really is no I guess fundamentals, if you will, at 0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:11.399 least in the traditional sense of how we try to 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:15.879 value stocks or hard assets here. So beyond the speculative 0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:18.040 nature of I buy this and someone will buy it 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:20.320 for more than me down the road, is there anything 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:23.800 else there that gooses this beyond just that supply demand equation. 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:28.160 Well, I think it's a very big idea, and it's 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:32.879 not just speculative. It's a global monetary system that is 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:37.800 rules based, it is private, it is digital, it is decentralized, 0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:41.320 and it is backed by the largest computer in the 0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:44.800 world or the largest computing system. It's the most secure 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:51.120 network in the world. So that's very important. Gold would 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:54.320 be in the same category. Gold is a store of 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:59.199 value and it is fairly scarce. What's interesting in the 0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:04.560 last year, with the last having this April, the increase 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:09.919 in bitcoin, the number of bitcoin per year, the percentage 0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:16.520 increase dropped to roughly zero point nine percent per year. 0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:23.399 That is below the one percent long term growth in 0:23:23.480 --> 0:23:26.840 the supply of gold, so it is becoming even more 0:23:26.960 --> 0:23:29.199 scarce than gold. 0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:31.040 And the difference between. 0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:33.680