1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday, everybody. Coming up on the show, we have 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: someone who was inspired by the cynic philosophers, particularly Diogenes, 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 1: who I have a soft spot for. So we thought 4 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: it would be a good time to go back to 5 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: our episode of Diogenes, which originally came out in July. 6 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: So enjoy. Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, 7 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, 8 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm colleague Fry and I'm 9 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: Tracy the Wilson. And it's been a little while, Tracy 10 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: since we've done any episodes on ancient history that is 11 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: correct show today, do you want to go back to 12 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: four b C with me and talk about an enigmatic 13 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: Greek philosopher. Yes, So this guy is really quite a 14 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: fun character. He opted for a life of poverty to 15 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: want of comfort. He was a self proclaimed citizen of 16 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: the world. He's sometimes um uh uh credited with inventing 17 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: the word cosmopolitan relating to being a citizen of the world. Uh. 18 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,119 Speaker 1: He was an enemy of pretense, he was an amant 19 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: guarde thinker, and he was also a humorist. So he 20 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: had a lot of irons in the fire of philosophy 21 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: and this is Diogenes of Sinope, and I've heard I've 22 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: listened to a bunch of pronunciations, some uh put an 23 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: accent on the middle syllable, so it's Sinope. Sinope sounds 24 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: more natural to me. So we're going with that. Apologies 25 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: if that irritates anyone. But the trick with him is 26 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: that his biography is based almost entirely on apocryphal stories. 27 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: There is some but not much solid information about his life, 28 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: and additionally, it appears that he didn't write down any 29 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: of his own philosophy. There is some debate over that, 30 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: but there's really been no evidence that he did. So 31 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: what we have is information that's been passed down by 32 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: his students and biographers, sometimes you know, several centuries later. 33 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: And I have to admit, with my own personal kind 34 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: of uh point of view this that I kind of 35 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: look at Diogenes of Sinnapy as a sort of ancient 36 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: Greek tyler dirden and that may become more apparent and 37 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 1: why I would think that as we talk about his 38 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: ideals and his philosophy and his life also reads in 39 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: some ways like one long Monty python sketch. So it's 40 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,679 Speaker 1: quite fun. This is not one where you're going to 41 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: get a lot of horrible stuff, although there are some 42 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: twists and turns. But I think it will be an 43 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: enjoyable little trip to the ancient past, so let's do it. 44 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,959 Speaker 1: Diogenes is usually cited as being born in the year 45 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: four twelve BC, and as with much of ancient history, 46 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: not really confident on that date. He was born in 47 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: Sinnape Pathlagonia, on the coast of the Black Sea, and 48 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: there's not really a lot known about his childhood. We 49 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: do know that his father worked with money, although we 50 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: don't know the precise nature of the work. Some biographies 51 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: listed as one and some of another. He could have 52 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: been a mentor, or perhaps some money changer, or simply 53 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: a banker. And we do know that Diogenes worked along 54 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:04,119 Speaker 1: signed his father, and specificity as to the specific job 55 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: title aside. The really interesting part of this relationship with 56 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: money is that at some point Diogenes and his father 57 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: together or Diogenes alone or even his father alone but 58 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: taking credit by Diogenes, started defacing the currency that they 59 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: were working with. There have been lots of archaeological finds 60 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: that corroborate that a lot of currency from the time 61 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: was damaged, but we don't really know why coin defacement 62 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: was the hobby of Diogenes and possibly his father, although 63 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: there are some theories on that yeah it may have 64 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: been a politically driven move related to the Greco Persian 65 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: wars of the time. Another perspective on the currency defacement 66 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: features the oracle at Delphi playing a fairly significant role. 67 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: In the text Lives of Eminent Philosophers, written in the 68 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: third century CE by Diogenes Laertius, there is a discussion 69 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: of Diogenes either being urged by the oracle to commit 70 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: this vandalism although he was urged to vandalize political currency 71 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: and instead to face state currency, or of being called 72 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: to the oracle after the fact to realize that his 73 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: behavior had been predestined. And we're not certain again of 74 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: how this particular habit of currency vandalism actually played out 75 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: in terms of repercussions. There are accounts that Diogenes was 76 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 1: exiled for this behavior, and some of them involve a 77 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 1: lot of um interplay with his father and who was 78 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 1: taking blame and who really did it, But there are 79 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: also conflicting accounts that say that Diogenes fled before he 80 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: could ever be tried for the crime. Whichever of those 81 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: scenarios was the case. The Agenes did move to Athens 82 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: after this whole currency incident. This would wind up being 83 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 1: a pivotal move because it's at this point that he 84 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: started down the path of philosophy. One of socrates former students, Antissanes, 85 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: took Diogenes on as a student of his own. Uh. 86 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: In a much contested and I will keep saying that, 87 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 1: but I just want to point out, like they're there 88 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: are ongoing debates over the veracity of various accounts. H. 89 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: But in a much contested version of the story of 90 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: how Diogenes became antistanes disciple, Diogenes Laertius tells how Diogenes 91 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: had to really wear Antistanes down before the elder man 92 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: finally conceded to take him on as a student. When 93 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: Antistanes raised a stick to Diogenes to drive him away, 94 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: his devotion was so vehement to becoming a pupil that 95 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: he put his head in the path of the stick 96 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: and said, strike, for you will not find any stick 97 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: hard enough to drive me away as long as you 98 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: continue to speak. Uh. And while we're also continuing to 99 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: talk about contested facets, of the Diogenes story. We actually 100 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: don't know for certain that he really did study under Antistanes. 101 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: This is something that still gets debated to this day 102 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: by historians and classicists. So keep all of that in 103 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: mind as we go to say Diogenes was an impassioned 104 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: student would really be an understatement. He took the lessons 105 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: of Antithonese two extremes, believing that he had to live 106 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: the philosophy rather than really just talk about it. He 107 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: wanted to reject artificiality and the luxury of of Athenian life. 108 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: In fact, he wanted to reject creature comforts so badly 109 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: that he decided to live in a tub in a 110 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: building dedicated to the goddess Civilly. Some accounts indicate that 111 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: it was actually an empty wine barrel and not a tub, 112 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: and that he was merely in a public square. But 113 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: regardless of the details of his tub or barrel, he 114 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: was inspired, he said, by the mouse, which was a 115 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: creature which he admired greatly for the adaptability that it showed. 116 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: It didn't need all of these trappings, It could just 117 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: live anywhere naturally. There's a whole other account of how 118 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: he came to be living in this cask or tub, 119 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: And in this version he wrote ahead to a friend 120 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,040 Speaker 1: in Athens that he was coming and that is and 121 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: should find him suitable accommodations. The friend was unable to 122 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: secure lodgings for Diogenes, and so the possibly exiled man 123 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: opted for a nearby barrel or tub in the public square. 124 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: In Lives of Imminent Philosophers, the agnes, then questioned as 125 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: to his habit of living on the streets, said that 126 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: the Athenians had already built him places to live in, 127 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: meeting all of the public spaces around him. It's an 128 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: interesting approach to life. But before we talk a little 129 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: bit about some of the ideals that Diogenes expounded on, 130 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: we're gonna pause for a quick word from a sponsor. 131 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: Diogenes owned nothing, and he depended on the kindness of 132 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: others and some wiggly logic that we're going to talk 133 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: about momentarily in order to survive. He did, at one 134 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: point allegedly possess a cup, that is, until he saw 135 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: a young boy drinking from his cupped hands, at which 136 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: point Diogenes threw the vessel away, claiming that it was 137 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: simply an unnecessary possession. So you may wonder how a 138 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: philosopher living on the streets managed to survive the elements. 139 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: He's said to have taken up the habit of training 140 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: himself to withstand any conditions, so he would roll in 141 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: hot sand during warm weather and embrace cold marble statues 142 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: in cold weather. Uh. Those those maybe fantastical fables of Diogenes. 143 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: We just don't know. He did believe that manners were 144 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: a form of lying, so he was pretty comfortable being 145 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: really outspoken and really brudeally honest. Uh. He's also said 146 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: to have pretty commonly urinated in public and even masturbated openly. Uh. 147 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: Basically any of the natural human activities that someone might 148 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: do in private as part of living in a civilized society. 149 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: Diogenes felt those should all be allowed in public. That's 150 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: part of authentic life. When I first started looking at 151 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: your outline, Holly, I got to the spot about believing 152 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: that manners were a form of lines. So he was 153 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: just outspoken and brutally honest, and I was like, I 154 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: think I used to date this guy. And then I 155 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: got to the next midence I was like, Nope, did 156 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: not date this guy. Thank goodness. There's another story of 157 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: a wealthy group of people throwing Diogenes bones during a 158 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: banquet and calling him a dog, after which he lifted 159 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: his leg and urinated on them canine style. Yeah, we're 160 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: gonna talk some more about dogs, because they are often 161 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: associated with him. But this is basically this time in Athens, 162 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: when he was doing all of these too, some seemingly 163 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: outlandish things of living publicly in a tub or barrel 164 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: and peeing on people that bothered him. Uh, East, people 165 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: started to call him crazy. In fact, Plato supposedly called 166 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: Diogenes quote a socrate has gone mad. So the relationship 167 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: between Diogenes and Plato was not simply a matter of 168 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: mild name calling. Diagene was very openly critical of Plato's work. 169 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: For example, one of the ongoing philosophic discussions of the 170 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: day was analysis of the nature and definition of what 171 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: it meant to be human. Plato had to find man 172 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 1: as a featherless, biped animal. To point out the limited 173 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 1: view of this definition, Diogenes plucked a foul, possibly a chicken, 174 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: and brought it with him into the philosopher's academy, showing 175 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: everyone how he was carrying by Plato's definition, a human being. Yeah, 176 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: I always get this is one of the famous stories 177 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 1: of Diogenes, and I always get a little hung up 178 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: on it because it's not the chickens natural state, so 179 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: you can't be claiming that. But again, he was a humorist, 180 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: so any the first prop comic perhaps um the debate 181 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: over the nature of man and what defined humanity continued 182 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: to lead to more eccentric behavior on the part of Diogenes. 183 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: So he would walk the streets of Athens carrying a lantern. 184 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: Sometimes you'll see it uh described as a candle, but 185 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: much more commonly as a lantern, even during daylight, and 186 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: he would hold it up to people's faces, claiming to 187 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: be looking for an honest man and never finding it. 188 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:12,959 Speaker 1: So we're laughing at this guy pretty openly. And it's 189 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: important to point out that Diagones was considered very humorous. 190 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 1: So while he was on the surface looking for an 191 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: honest human being in a way that might have seemed 192 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: crazy at best or jerkish at the worst, he was 193 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: using comedy to make a statement about the people of 194 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: Athens having lost their humanity. They really felt that humans 195 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: were living in pretense rather than in harmony with nature. 196 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: That's where he starts to sound a lot like Tyler 197 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 1: Dirtan to me. We should also mention, though, that he 198 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: was not the first or only philosopher who believed that 199 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: most humans were walking around in this sort of contrived 200 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: dream state of inauthenticity. Heraclitis, Sophocles, and Plato all tackled 201 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: similar issues in their work, but none of them took 202 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: to the streets to challenge people openly and in their 203 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: faces about it. To further comment on the trap things 204 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: of human constructs, Badginies would say that he sometimes saw 205 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: a man as the brightest and wisest of all animals, 206 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 1: but when he thought that fortune tellers and soothsayers were 207 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: heavily patronized, he thought that mankind was the most foolish 208 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: animal of all. And he really believed pretty implicitly that 209 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: humans should be self sufficient as part of their natural state. 210 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: Like he really thought we exist in a way that 211 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: we could totally take care of ourselves if we got 212 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 1: rid of all of these societal constructs. H But he 213 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,599 Speaker 1: also did a little bit of fancy footwork, uh philosophically 214 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: to make sure that his needs were met while he 215 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: was living his natural, self sufficient double life. He would expound, 216 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: for example, that all elements are in all things, and 217 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: that all substances are united. So snatching a little bit 218 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: of food or stealing a little bit of wine was 219 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: just making use of the natural elements that are all 220 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 1: around you in the vapor. They just happened to take 221 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: the form of sustenance. And apparently, despite all the public 222 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: urination and open criticism of literally everyone around him, Diogenes 223 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: was much beloved in Athens. Yeah, people really thought I mean, 224 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: they called him crazy, but they also thought he was 225 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: very smart and he had a lot of interesting ideas, 226 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: So he's such a fascinating creature. Um and Diogenes, a 227 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: synopy with his disdain for social contract constructs, is also 228 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: considered the father of cynicism, and this is where the 229 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: dogs come in. So the word cynicism is related to 230 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: the Greek word for dog, and there's no historical consensus 231 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 1: as to how dogs came to be so closely associated 232 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 1: with Diogenes and his philosophy, but there are several popular theories. 233 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: The first one is that he extolled the virtues of 234 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: the dog's way of living as being entirely without pretense, 235 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: which people who love dogs would probably agree with the 236 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: second one is that his mentor and Histones taught at 237 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: a school called Sinos Sargees, which I may be pronouncing wrong, 238 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: but that translates roughly to place of the white dog. 239 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: So it was more of a linear homage to his 240 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: teacher than anything else. The third suggestion kind of loops 241 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 1: back to the first one, which is that it's a 242 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: comparison between diogenes philosophy of anti pretense and the general 243 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: characteristics of a dog. Yeah, so that one is more 244 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: like from other people saying, hey, you kind of live 245 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: like a dog, rather than him going dogs are awesome, 246 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: they're not pretentious. It's more of one that's put on 247 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: him rather than him expounding on And this association of 248 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: dogs with Diogenes persisted throughout his life and beyond. If 249 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: you look at any artists renderings of the philosopher, the 250 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: majority of them, I would say, because there have been 251 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: a lot of paintings of him throughout the years feature 252 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: one or more dogs by his side. There are a 253 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: lot of images of him kind of tucked into his 254 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: little tub or his cask, and sometimes there are four 255 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: or five dogs just around him. They're almost always dogs 256 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: in the picture. So things are about to get a 257 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: little bit wacky. Here's what's going on. So while he 258 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,359 Speaker 1: was traveling, at one point, the story goes that Diogenes 259 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: was actually captured by pirates. You gotta have pirates in 260 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: a good wacky story. And then he was taken to 261 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,239 Speaker 1: Crete and he was sold as a slave to Zeniads 262 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: of Corinth, and as a slave, Diogenes allegedly told his 263 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,359 Speaker 1: new owner that he had no special skills or abilities 264 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: other than governing men. So he was made a tutor 265 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: to uh Zenid's children, and eventually he was considered a 266 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: member of the family rather than a slave. And an 267 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: alternate version of the story and Diogenes actually chose Zeniads 268 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: as the man that the pirates should sell him to, 269 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: saying that his potential master looked like he really needed 270 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: to be governed. Many different details compete with one another 271 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: when it comes to the relationship between Diogenes and the 272 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: man who purchased him. He might have been set free 273 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: immediately and then employed. He might have started out as 274 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: a slave and then slowly that aspect of the relationship diminished, 275 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: or he might have stayed a slave, although one with 276 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: a great deal of personal freedom. His entire life. Yeah, 277 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: we just don't know. And and that's another another one 278 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: of those things that different tellings put it different ways, 279 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: and different um translations have probably led to some of 280 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: that muddy water in that arena. And despite the fact 281 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: that he was technically a slave during at least part 282 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: of this time in Corinth, it does appear that Diogenes 283 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: lived there in much the same way that he did 284 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: in Athens. So he slept and bathed and gave his 285 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: lectures in public spaces, and he eschewed the trappings of society, 286 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: and he continued to share and live his philosophy of 287 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: personal responsibility and minimalist living. As for the lessons that 288 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: he bestowed upon the children that he was tasked with teaching, 289 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: he not only taught them academics, but also writing, archery 290 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: and stone slinging. When the boys were in the gymnasium, 291 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: he was adamant that they not be trained in the 292 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: standard athletic style, but in a gentler manner, getting their 293 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: heart rates up and color in their cheeks, but not 294 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 1: really pushing to extremes. Yeah, this one always seems kind 295 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: of odd to me. It's one of the many later 296 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: writings about him because you see him so often depicted 297 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: as walking with a cane and so like. Picturing him 298 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: teaching them all of these physical things seems odd to me, 299 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 1: but you never know. Perhaps it was true. Um. There's 300 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 1: another sort of famous story about him involving his time 301 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: in Corinth, when Diogenes allegedly had an encounter with Alexander 302 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: the Great. Apparently, Alexander wanted to meet this unconventional philosopher 303 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 1: because he had heard a great deal about him. And 304 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: when he finally found this man on the streets of 305 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: Corinth and inquired as to whether he was, in fact 306 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: the philosopher that he sought, Diogenes is said to have replied, yes, 307 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 1: get out of my sunlight. The eccentric philosopher openly criticized Alexander, 308 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: which perhaps surprisingly, actually endeared him to the ruler so much. 309 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: The King of Macedonia once said that if he were 310 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: not Alexander the Great, he'd be Diogenes of Sinope. In 311 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: another belittling move, Diogenes supposedly responded, if I were not Diogenes, 312 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: I would also wish to be Diogenes. He's genuinely funny. 313 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:30,239 Speaker 1: That's such a good singer. I love it. Um. He 314 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: would lecture in public spaces, and if no one stopped 315 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 1: to listen, he got in this really interesting sort of 316 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: cruel it's almost click abating of the ancient style. He 317 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: would start whistling until onlookers came, and once he had 318 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: drawn a few people and gotten their attention, he would 319 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: then berate them for coming to listen to him whistling 320 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: and being musical, and point out how ignorant they were 321 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 1: that they did not stop earlier to listen to the 322 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: far more important things he had to share. I e. 323 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: His philosophy sort of reminds me of when Uh, like 324 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: Joshua bell a virtuoso violinists will just bust in the 325 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 1: subway and I'll sort of walk on by, not realizing 326 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: what's happening. Uh. The Agonies lived the remainder of his 327 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: life in Corinthe, Greece, and died there in at the 328 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: age of ninety. His cause of death is as cloaked 329 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: in murky variations as basically every other part of his 330 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: life story, varying A counts list a dog attack resulting 331 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: in rabies, which would have been kind of ironic considering 332 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: all the previous dog stuff food poisoning, eating a raw 333 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: ox or maybe a raw octopus. Uh, and even committing 334 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: suicide by holding his breath until he died. And that 335 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 1: last one is just as unlikely as it sounds. Probably 336 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 1: he just died of old age. Yeah. I think some 337 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: of these stories were probably written to add drama. But 338 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: he was elderly when he died, and he had been 339 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: around a very long time, hime, and that was quite 340 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: an old age. I love that there are accounts that 341 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: say he held his breath until he died. That can't work. 342 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 1: You pass out and start automatically breathing. But while Diogenes 343 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: had told people that he should be thrown to the 344 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: dogs as food when he died, he was instead given 345 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: a proper and honorable burial. He was again, despite being 346 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 1: this really eccentric, cranky public urinator, very beloved. Uh. The 347 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: account of his death plan is a little bit different 348 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: in the third century Diogenes laardious writings. There, he is 349 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: said to have told Zeniads that, in fact, he wanted 350 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 1: to be buried on his face quote because in a 351 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,239 Speaker 1: little while everything will be turned upside down. And with 352 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: that statement he was referring to the political situation at 353 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: the time. Uh. The Macedonians were rising in power, and 354 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 1: he thought a pretty big cultural shift was gonna undoubtedly 355 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: follow that. A statue of the philosopher was later erected 356 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: in Sea and up Turkey, and it features a dog 357 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: by his side and the signature lantern he would shine 358 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 1: in people's faces. Yeah, so that is the more modern 359 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: day version of where he was born. And one of 360 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: the reasons I think that the life of Diogenes comes 361 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: with a lot of variation in the telling and most 362 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: likely some outright fabrication, is that he was a larger 363 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: than life personality and sometimes that will kind of build 364 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 1: you know, people will build on some very real, larger 365 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: than life things and kind of add their own embellishments. 366 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: But I really like, uh, this one story about him 367 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: that is a nice way to kind of sum up 368 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: his his life, particularly at the end, because allegedly as 369 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: he was nearing the end of his life he was 370 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: getting very old, people would ask him why he insisted 371 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: on continuing living his difficult path of poverty when he 372 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: really could retire and live in greater comfort. Again, he 373 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: was much beloved, He probably had a lot of options 374 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: and plenty of people that would have been happy to 375 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: take him in and he may have still been part 376 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 1: of Zenia's family. We don't entirely new, but his response 377 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: was apparently, why so suppose I had run a long 378 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 1: distance ought I to stop when I was near the 379 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: end and not rather press on. I love him, He's 380 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 1: so dedicated to his whole thing funny. I mean sometimes, uh, 381 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: we laugh at people's foibles in the in the podcast 382 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: because they are humorous. We don't often get to laugh 383 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,479 Speaker 1: at somebody who's being deliberately comical in the podcast. This 384 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: is a nice change of pace from feeling mildly guilty 385 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: about laughing at somebody's comical foibles. Yeah, he needed his 386 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 1: foibles were what they were. He he had a really 387 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: good sense of like what he was he was drawing 388 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 1: out of people. He was trying to get people to 389 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: think through comedy, which I always am a big fan of. 390 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: I think he's brilliant. Thank you so much for joining 391 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: us on this Saturday. If you have heard an email 392 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: address or a Facebook you r L or something similar 393 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: over the course of today's episode, since it is from 394 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,159 Speaker 1: the archive that might be out of date now, you 395 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: can email us at History Podcast at how stuff Works 396 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: dot com and you can find us all over social 397 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 1: media at Missed in History, and you can subscribe to 398 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: our show on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, the I heart 399 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: Radio app, and wherever else you listen to podcasts. Stuff 400 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: you Missed in History Class is a production of I 401 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 1: heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts, for my 402 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or 403 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.