1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. 4 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. 5 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 2: Recently, we were trying to brainstorm some ideas for the 6 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 2: show that were food related in some way. We talk 7 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 2: about food fairly often, but this was for like a 8 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 2: specific project. Yeah, and I briefly thought about doing a 9 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 2: history of the tomato because there's just so much stuff 10 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,639 Speaker 2: there that really fascinates me. Like, for example, tomatoes are 11 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 2: such a key part of so much Italian cuisine, but 12 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 2: they are not even native to the same continent as Italy. 13 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 2: There's that whole thing where people in parts of the 14 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 2: world used to think tomatoes are poisonous, and they are 15 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 2: in the night shade family, which does include some really 16 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 2: toxic plants and people can have allergies and intolerances and 17 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 2: things like that. But also tomatoes are just acidic enough 18 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 2: to leach the lead out of dishes and utensils, so 19 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,559 Speaker 2: in the era when people were eating off of lead 20 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 2: a lot, they really might have been helping to poison people. 21 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 2: We've also done histories of specific foods before. Some of 22 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 2: those episodes are ones that I researched and wrote, so 23 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 2: I know that can be done, but as I looked 24 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 2: at this, it just increasingly seemed maybe not workable for tomatoes. 25 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 2: You could do any one of those nodules of the 26 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 2: tomato story and it's its own story. It would be 27 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 2: its own thing. And yeah, and today we do have 28 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 2: one piece of it that it's this whole thing, it's 29 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 2: its own thing, which is Nicks versus Headen. That was 30 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 2: the US Supreme Court decision that made tomatoes a vegetable 31 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 2: at least for tariff purposes. I do love a weird 32 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 2: court case. And that also gave us the opportunity to 33 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 2: at least touch on some of those things that I 34 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: find so interesting about tomatoes in the. 35 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: So, there are several different species of tomato. The one 36 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: that's cultivated and eaten most is Solanum, like a persicum, 37 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: but there are thousands of varieties of that one species 38 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: growing around the world. And although a lot of people 39 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: like to think of tomatoes as vegetables, and the cork 40 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: case we're talking about agreed. In botanical terms, you've probably 41 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: heard this before. They are a fruit. Specifically, they're a berry. 42 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: So berries are fleshy fruits that develop from the ovary 43 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: of a flower. Berries do not have pits, but they 44 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 1: can have seeds, and under this definition, bananas are also berries, 45 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: and so are eggplants and bell peppers. 46 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 2: Side note, despite their names, raspberries, blackberries, and strawberries are 47 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:53,119 Speaker 2: not berries according to botanical definitions. They are all aggregate fruits, 48 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 2: meaning that they develop from lots of flower ovaries instead 49 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 2: of just one. So for blackberries and raspberries, that aggregated 50 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 2: parts are called druplets. For strawberries, the true fruit in 51 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 2: the strawberry is all those little pips on the exterior. 52 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 2: Those are fruits called achnes, and the rest of the 53 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 2: strawberry is a fleshy accessory receptacle that's holding all those akines. 54 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 2: Other akenes include dandelions. The little seeds at the end 55 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 2: of the dandelion fluff are fruit as well. This information 56 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 2: we are offering for informational purposes only, and not as 57 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 2: ammunition to go be pedantic at people when they call 58 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 2: strawberries berries or whatever. I just want to say, fleshy 59 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: accessory receptacle sounds like the title of a Kurt Vannaget 60 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 2: short story. Yeah, it doesn't sound like something you would 61 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 2: want to eat I mean I do. Maybe I want 62 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 2: to eat strawberries all the time. Oh. 63 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: Same. So tomatoes are native to the Andes Mountains in 64 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: South America, and there's evidence that people in this region 65 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: domesticated the tomato, but it's less clear whether they ate 66 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: as food. It can be really tricky to find archaeological 67 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: evidence to answer these kinds of questions, and the oral 68 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: histories and food ways of many of these peoples were 69 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: disrupted through European conquest and colonization. But at some point 70 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: tomato plants were introduced from the Andes Mountains to Mexico. 71 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: They were definitely being used as a food source there 72 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: by the time Spain started colonizing the region in fifteen nineteen. 73 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: The word tomato comes from the Nahuatal language, and the 74 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: Nahwuas developed a wide range of dishes incorporating this fruit. 75 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. Maybe at some time we'll have an unearthed discovery 76 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 2: about like residues on the inside of bits of pottery 77 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 2: to answer the question of. 78 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: What so much lycopene? 79 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we'll see maybe. But as the Spanish conquered 80 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 2: and colonized the surrounding areas, they introduced tomato plants as well. 81 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 2: Starting in the Caribbean. Spanish peace people returning to Europe 82 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 2: took tomatoes with them, carrying them first to Spain and 83 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 2: then to Italy. The first written record of a tomato 84 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 2: in Europe was in an Italian herbal in fifteen forty four. 85 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 2: It's likely that tomatoes made their way farther north into 86 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 2: North America, not from Mexico or the Caribbean, but from Spain, 87 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: again brought by Spanish colonists in the seventeenth century. And 88 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 2: although tomatoes had been introduced into England around the same 89 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 2: time as other parts of Europe, they didn't really become 90 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 2: a popular food there for a while, so most English 91 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 2: colonists encountered their first use of tomatoes in cuisine after 92 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 2: having arrived in parts of North America that had previously 93 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 2: been colonized by Spain. So we mentioned Italian cuisine at 94 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 2: the top of the show. But of course tomatoes are 95 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 2: a key ingredient in dishes from other parts of the world, 96 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 2: as well as just a few examples, shak Shuka and 97 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 2: other similar dishes in North Africa and the Middle East 98 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 2: involved eggs poached in a tomato sauce. I'm a fan 99 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 2: of that. The Philippines has sarciato, which is a fish 100 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 2: and tomato dish. Tomatoes were probably introduced into the Indian 101 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 2: subcontinent by the Portuguese in the sixteenth century, and by 102 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 2: the nineteenth century they were adding kind of a sour 103 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 2: note to a number of foods, including curries and chutney's, 104 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 2: And then that circles back around to chicken tika masala, 105 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 2: which has a lot of contradictory origin stories but was 106 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 2: popularized by chefs from India who were living in the UK. 107 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 2: There's not one totally standard recipe for chicken tika masala, 108 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 2: but usually it's creamy sauce is made with tomatoes. Of course, 109 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 2: this whole episode is about a court case revolving around 110 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 2: whether tomatoes should be defined as a vegetable or a fruit. 111 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 2: And in botanical terms, as we said, fruits developed from 112 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 2: the ovary of a flower. That is their key defining trait. 113 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: But as a category, vegetables is actually a little Broadly speaking, 114 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:06,799 Speaker 1: vegetables are edible plants or plant parts that don't grow 115 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: from the ovaries of flowers, so the term vegetables includes leaves, taproots, tubers, stems, 116 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: and flowers themselves. So things like lettuce, carrots, potatoes, celery, 117 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,239 Speaker 1: and broccoli. This gets even more confusing when you realize 118 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: that potatoes are also in the night shade family. There's 119 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: a lot of weird crossover. 120 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 2: Ye, there are a whole lot of night shades beyond 121 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 2: the ones that like grow on vines. Yeah. When it 122 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 2: comes to the way people talk about food, though specifically 123 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: in this case, the way English speakers in the United 124 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 2: States and other similar groups talk about food, that definition 125 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 2: of fruit comes from the ovary of a flower, and 126 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 2: vegetables don't. That doesn't always work. Green Beans and other 127 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 2: legumes grow from flower ovaries. Technically they are fruit, and 128 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 2: so are cucumbers. Corn is grass, and each kernel on 129 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 2: an ear of corn is botanically a fruit. We already 130 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 2: mentioned eggplant, bell, peppers, and of course tomatoes all being fruit. 131 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 2: But in culinary terms and this cultural context, people are 132 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 2: more likely to think of all of these foods as 133 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 2: vegetables because of things like their taste and texture and 134 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 2: how they're prepared and served in various dishes. Broadly speaking, 135 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 2: the things we think of as fruits are generally sweeter, 136 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 2: more likely to be served as snacks or side dishes 137 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 2: or in desserts or toppings. Obviously, there are exceptions, things 138 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 2: like lemon or grapefruit, which are fruit but are also 139 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 2: sour rather than sweet. Vegetables often are not as sweet 140 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 2: and are more likely to be incorporated as part of 141 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 2: the main dish. This is all incredibly subjective, and there 142 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,439 Speaker 2: are lots of exceptions, and we have not even talked 143 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 2: about how nuts and grains, which most most people don't 144 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 2: think of usually as a fruit or a vegetable, are 145 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 2: in botanical terms again fruit. But if you have grown 146 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 2: up immersed in a culture that thinks about food this way, 147 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 2: this all probably feels innate and even universal. There are 148 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 2: other cultures and languages that approach these categories totally differently 149 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 2: or not at all. There is an entire field called 150 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 2: linguistic ethnobotany that studies the names of different plants than 151 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 2: animals as they are used by different languages and cultures. 152 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: So here in the US, the lack of clarity on 153 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: exactly what counts as a fruit and what counts as 154 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: a vegetable has led to some disputes and a Supreme 155 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: Court case that Tracy wound up finding deeply hilarious. Because 156 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: it is we will get to all of that, including 157 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: some talk about tariffs after a sponsor break. 158 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,719 Speaker 2: The Supreme Court decision that classified tomatoes as vegetables came 159 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 2: about because of a tariff, in other words, a duty 160 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 2: imposed by the government on imported or exported goods. Tariffs 161 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 2: are a way to regulate trade and were a major 162 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 2: source of revenue for the United States government in the 163 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 2: nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. At some points during that period, 164 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,719 Speaker 2: there was no federal income tax at all, and at 165 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,839 Speaker 2: others income tax rates did exist but were extremely low, 166 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 2: so most of the federal government's revenue came from taxes 167 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 2: on things like alcohol and tobacco, or from tariffs. The 168 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 2: United States at this point had some of the highest 169 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 2: tariff rates in the world, and in some years tariffs 170 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 2: provided almost all of the federal government's revenue. In addition 171 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,439 Speaker 2: to providing revenue, tariffs had a major impact on trade 172 00:10:56,559 --> 00:11:00,839 Speaker 2: and on the United States relationships with other nations. Over 173 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 2: these years, there were a lot of adjustments to tariff law, 174 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 2: depending on how the government wanted to regulate trade and 175 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 2: how the economy and the federal budget were doing, and 176 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 2: anything else the government wanted to achieve through tariffs. If 177 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 2: the government needed money, tariffs often went up, and if 178 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 2: the government had a surplus, especially a surplus that went 179 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 2: on for multiple years, rates often dropped. There were people 180 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 2: who were opposed to tariffs altogether, seeing them as a 181 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 2: barrier to free trade. Others supported tariffs as a tool 182 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 2: for the federal government to bring in revenue, but opposed 183 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,079 Speaker 2: the use of tariffs to specifically try to protect American 184 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 2: business interests. Protectionism versus free trade was an ongoing source 185 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 2: of disagreement and debate. I would say, to some extent, 186 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 2: it still is, even though there's federal income tax now, 187 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 2: so the tariff is not like the sole source of 188 00:11:55,960 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 2: government income. Sometimes, but not always, disagreements ran along both 189 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 2: party and geographic lines. In the late nineteenth century, Republicans, 190 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 2: especially Northeastern Republicans, generally wanted to use tariffs to protect 191 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 2: American manufacturing interests at that time, and a lot of 192 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 2: the manufacturing was concentrated in the Northeast. But Democrats, especially 193 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 2: Southern Democrats, were often more focused on the idea of 194 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 2: free trade. 195 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: At the same time, tariffs could really make or break 196 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: the people who did business in goods that were subject 197 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: to them, So people who ran businesses that were really 198 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 1: affected by tariffs lobbied heavily for laws that, of course 199 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: would be favorable to their interests. That could be a 200 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: reduction in tariffs on goods they wanted to import, or 201 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: an increase in tariffs on imported goods from foreign competitors. 202 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 2: So the tariff law that was at work in Nicks 203 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 2: versus Headen was passed in eighteen eighty three, following broad 204 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 2: calls for tariff reform, but broad reform is not what 205 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 2: happened at all. After the eighteen eighty presidential election, Republicans 206 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 2: controlled both Houses of Congress and Republican James Garfield had 207 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 2: been elected president, But at first the government did not 208 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 2: take advantage of this situation of controlling both houses and 209 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 2: the presidency to get some action taken to pass a 210 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,239 Speaker 2: tariff for form package that would align with the Republican 211 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 2: Party's interests. Then, in the eighteen eighty two midterm elections, 212 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 2: Republicans lost their majority in the House, so getting a 213 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 2: tariff bill passed in the lame duck sessions before the 214 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:41,479 Speaker 2: inauguration became a big priority. Overall, Republicans wanted to lower tariffs, 215 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 2: but not as much as the Democrats would try to 216 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 2: lower them once they had a majority in the House. 217 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 2: Many Democrats already in Congress also seemed to have seen 218 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 2: this as something of an opportunity because if the Republicans 219 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 2: passed a tariff for form package before the end of 220 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 2: the session, the Democrats wouldn't have to deal with it 221 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 2: two and control of the House. Yeah, it seems like overall, 222 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 2: I wanted to try to get things they wanted, but 223 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 2: like not block the package entirely. There was general agreement 224 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 2: that big changes needed to happen. Among other things, the 225 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 2: US Tariff Commission, created in March of eighteen eighty two, 226 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 2: had called for an average twenty five percent reduction in tariffs, 227 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 2: but there was way less agreement on the details, especially 228 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 2: when it came to what the House wanted versus what 229 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 2: the Senate wanted. Without getting two in the weeds on this, 230 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 2: this was a laborious and extremely contentious process, with around 231 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 2: two hundred votes on various aspects of this bill in 232 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 2: each House of Congress. 233 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: During this process, the House Committee on Rules also issued 234 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: a special order that for the rest of that congressional session, 235 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: the House could suspend the rules with a simple majority 236 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: vote rather than the two thirds majority that was normally needed. 237 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: This was the first time that the House Rules Committee 238 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: altered the standing rules for the sake of one specific bill. 239 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: So I read some conflicting and also confusing explanations about 240 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: what prompted this special order. But as I understand it, 241 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: if the House had voted on the Senate's version of 242 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: the bill, it probably would have passed, and under the 243 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: normal standing rules, that's normally what they would have done. 244 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: But there were a lot of representatives who wanted higher 245 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: tariffs than what was in the Senate version, so what 246 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: they wanted was for the bill to be sent to 247 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: a committee to work on. They did not have the 248 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: two thirds majority that was normally needed to waive the 249 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: rules and send the bill to a committee, though, so 250 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: this special order was a way to get the bill 251 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: into a committee rather than just passing the Senate version. Ultimately, 252 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: an Act to Reduce Internal Revenue Taxation and for other 253 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: purposes was signed into law on March third, eighteen eighty three, 254 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: and it did make a bunch of tariff changes, but 255 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: without really doing anything that people who felt strongly about 256 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: it had actually wanted. There was no huge overall reduction 257 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: in tariffs, and there was no broad reform of the system. Instead, 258 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: tariffs were reduced on some items but raised on others, 259 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: and the whole bill was very long and complicated. Its 260 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: critics called it the mongrel tariff. 261 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 2: So one printed version of this act and its schedules 262 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 2: is thirty nine pages long. Now, that does not sound 263 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 2: that long by today's standards, when sometimes there are bills 264 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 2: that run more than a thousand pages or multiple thousands 265 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 2: of pages. But bills were a lot shorter at the time, 266 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 2: and according to one article I found, even today, the 267 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 2: average bill is only about eighteen pages long, So thre's 268 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 2: thousand or multiple thousand pages bills are kind of outliers. 269 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 2: Over the first handful of pages of this bill, there's 270 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 2: a lot about tobacco and snuff and tobacco products. The 271 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 2: import of obscene material is banned, as is the import 272 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 2: of contraceptives and abortifations. Imported watches, watchcases, watch movements, and 273 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 2: the like are prohibited from copying the name or trademark 274 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 2: of any domestic versions of the same products, unless the 275 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 2: domestic manufacturer of those products is the one who is 276 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 2: importing them, and then they are about twenty five pages 277 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 2: of schedules. So, in other words, lists of imported items 278 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 2: and the duties to be. 279 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: Collected on them. Schedules included chemical products, earthenware and glassware, metals, 280 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: wood and woodenwares, sugar, tobacco provisions, liquors, cotton and cotton goods, hemp, 281 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: jute and flax goods, wool and woolens, silk and silk goods, 282 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 1: book papers, it's et cetera, and. 283 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 2: Sundrys so Some random and kind of hilarious examples from 284 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 2: all of this fancy perfumed and all descriptions of toilet 285 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 2: soap fifteen cents per pound, all imitations of natural mineral waters, 286 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 2: and all artificial mineral waters. Thirty percentum ad volorum prepared chalk, 287 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 2: precipitated chalk, French chalk, red chalk, and all other chalk 288 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 2: preparations which are not specifically enumerated or provided for in 289 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 2: this Act. Twenty percentum advlorum waste all not specifically enumerated 290 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 2: or provided for in this Act. Ten percentum ad valorum 291 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 2: gunnycloth not bagging valued at ten cents or less per 292 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 2: square yard, three cents per pound, valued at over ten 293 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 2: cents per square yard four cents a pound, but then 294 00:18:56,119 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 2: bags and bagging and like manufacturers not specifically enumerated or 295 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 2: provided for in this Act, except bagging for cotton composed 296 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 2: why or in part of flax, hemp, juice, gunnycloth, gunnybags, 297 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 2: or other material forty percentum advalorum. Then there's the free list, 298 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 2: which goes on for about another ten pages. Items on 299 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:23,959 Speaker 2: the free list include albumin ambergris, blood bones, leeches, cocone, eal, 300 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 2: lemon juice and lime juice, vaccine, virus, stuffed birds, silkworms, eggs, coffee, tea, fossils, baloney, sausages, 301 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 2: and junk comma. 302 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: Old. Although coffee is on the free list, acorns, dandelion root, 303 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: raw or prepared, and all other articles used or intended 304 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: to be used as coffee or as substitutes therefore not 305 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: specifically enumerated or provided for in this act that's going 306 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: to cost you two cents per pound. Coffee is free. 307 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: Fake coffee is not. Get out of here with your 308 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: weird herbal teas. 309 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 2: Yes, the dispute in Nicks versus Headen involved Schedule G 310 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 2: provisions which included vegetables in their natural state or in 311 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 2: salt or brine not specifically enumerated or provided for in 312 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 2: this Act. Ten percent ad dolorum, but then on the 313 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 2: free list was fruits green, ripe or dried not specifically 314 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 2: enumerated or provided for in this Act. Since tomatoes were 315 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 2: not specifically enumerated or provided for in the Act, if 316 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 2: they were vegetables, the tariff was ten percent add blorum, 317 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 2: but if they were fruits, they were free. So this 318 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 2: brings us to John Nixon Company, established in eighteen thirty nine, 319 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 2: which is one of the first successful fruit and vegetable 320 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 2: importers in the United States, after developments and things like steamships, railroads, 321 00:20:55,760 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 2: and insulated shipping containers made that a potentially viable business. 322 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 2: John Nicks had four sons, John W. Nix, George W. Nix, 323 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 2: Frank W. Nix, and Robert W. Nix, who all became 324 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,919 Speaker 2: part of their father's business. I don't know if the 325 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 2: W stands for the same thing for all of them, 326 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 2: and if so, what it stands Willard. This firm was 327 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 2: headquartered in New York, but it had a national reach. 328 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 2: In addition to importing produce from other countries, John Nixon 329 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 2: Company also built relationships with farmers and other parts of 330 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 2: the United States, including Florida, Texas, and California. They wanted 331 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 2: to understand these farmers' businesses and also encouraged them to 332 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 2: expand the types of fruits and vegetables that they were 333 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 2: growing domestically. The Nixes were also very vocal within the 334 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 2: New York business community and in the fruit and vegetable 335 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 2: industry more broadly. While the eighteen eighty three tariff law 336 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 2: was being debated, John Nicks teamed with E. P. 337 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,400 Speaker 1: Loomis and Clifford L. Middleton to write a letter protesting 338 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: the proposed tariff on vegetables, which they described as a 339 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: three hundred percent increase. They argued that they imported vegetables 340 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 1: from other countries primarily during March, April, and May, when 341 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: US farms couldn't produce enough to meet customer demand. They 342 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 1: noted that some foods like onions, were an affordable staple 343 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: for middle class families, but that US farms just could 344 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: not supply them during those months. They didn't spell this out, 345 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: but this is because of the climate and growing seasons. 346 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 1: Places where the weather was warmer could plant these foods earlier, 347 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: or even grow them year round. So at first, after 348 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: the new tariff law went into effect, despite these objections, 349 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: John Nixon Company paid tariffs on vegetable imports as required, 350 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: but in late eighteen eighty six, Edward Long Headen, collector 351 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: of the Port of New York, tried to collect the 352 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,360 Speaker 1: tariff on a load of tomatoes that had come from 353 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: the West End Ease. Nicks argued that he should not 354 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: have to pay a tariff on tomatoes because they were fruits, 355 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: not vegetables. Headen disagreed, collected the tariff anyway, which Nicks 356 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: paid under protest, and then on February fourth, eighteen eighty seven, 357 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 1: Nicks sued him over it. We're going to talk more 358 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: about that after we pause for a sponsor break. 359 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 2: We don't have court transcripts from the John Nixon Company 360 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 2: original lawsuit, which was filed in the Circuit Court of 361 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,400 Speaker 2: the United States for the Southern District of New York, 362 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,360 Speaker 2: but we do have a summary of what happened at 363 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,120 Speaker 2: trial from the majority opinion in the US Supreme Court 364 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 2: case Nicks versus Headen. 365 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 1: First, Nix's attorney read some definitions into evidence, specifically the 366 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: definitions of the words fruit and vegets. He read from 367 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 1: three different dictionaries, Websters, Woosters, and the Imperial Dictionary. Then 368 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: he called two witnesses, both of whom had been in 369 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,919 Speaker 1: business selling fruit and vegetables for about three decades. He 370 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: asked each of them if, after hearing these definitions, the 371 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 1: words fruit or vegetable had quote any special meaning in 372 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: trade or commerce different from those read. 373 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 2: So one of them answered, quote, well, it does not 374 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 2: classify all things there, but they are correct as far 375 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 2: as they go. It does not take all kinds of 376 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 2: fruit or vegetables, it takes a portion of them. I 377 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 2: think the words fruit and vegetable have the same meaning 378 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 2: in trade today that they had on March first, eighteen 379 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 2: eighty three. I understand that the term fruit is applied 380 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 2: in trade only to such plants or parts of plants 381 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 2: as contain the seeds. There are more vegetables than those 382 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 2: in the enumeration given in Webster's dictionary under the term vegetable, 383 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 2: as cabbage, cluliflower, turnips, potatoes, peas, beans, and the like, 384 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 2: probably covered by the words and the like. The other 385 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,439 Speaker 2: said quote, I don't think the term fruit or the 386 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 2: term vegetables had in March eighteen eighty three and prior 387 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 2: there too, any special meaning in trade and commerce in 388 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 2: this country different from that which I have read here. 389 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 2: From the dictionaries. After that, Nix's attorney read the definition 390 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 2: of the word tomato out of the dictionary in which 391 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 2: it was defined as a fruit, just as a note, 392 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 2: were not reading the definitions themselves, because I don't know 393 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,919 Speaker 2: which version of any of these dictionaries the attorneys were using, 394 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 2: and the definitions can really vary from like one addition 395 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 2: to the other of these, even like within Websters or whatever. 396 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 2: But all of the ones I checked at some point 397 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 2: said that tomato was a fruit. 398 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: The attorney for the Collector of the Port of New 399 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: York read number of other definitions out of Webster's dictionary, 400 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: including the definitions for pea, eggplant, cucumber, squash, and pepper. 401 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: We can logically conclude that the dictionary described all of 402 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: these as fruit. And then Nix's attorney followed up with 403 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: some more dictionary definitions, including potato, turnip, parsnip, cauliflower, cabbage, carrot, 404 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: and bean from both Webster's and Wooster's dictionaries. And according 405 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 1: to what was described and the majority opinion from the 406 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: Supreme Court case. 407 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 2: That was all the evidence, all of it. It was 408 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,919 Speaker 2: two witness statements and attorneys reading out of the dictionary 409 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 2: that sounds. 410 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,400 Speaker 1: Like the best day in court ever. I like it. 411 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: I love the idea of just reading dictionary things at 412 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 1: each other with Scowley faces. Another side note if you're 413 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 1: like Wooster's Dictionary, was that Joseph Emerson Worcester was Noah 414 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: Webster's main dictionary competitor in an intense rivalry that became 415 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 1: known as the Dictionary Wars. Very likely that that will. 416 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 2: Be an episode in the future, Yet with such an 417 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 2: intense rivalry that it went on for many years after 418 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 2: Noel Webster was dead. Anyway, the Circuit Court ruled in 419 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 2: favor of the Collector for the Court of New York 420 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 2: that he was correct tomatoes were vegetables. So John Nixon 421 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 2: Company appealed that ruling. This case was submitted to the 422 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 2: US Supreme Court on April twenty fourth, eighteen ninety three, 423 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,439 Speaker 2: and then decided on May tenth. 424 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,439 Speaker 1: In the words of Justice Horace Gray, writing for the 425 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 1: majority opinion, quote the passages cited from the dictionaries define 426 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: the word fruit as the seed of plants, or that 427 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,199 Speaker 1: part of plants which contains the seed, and especially the juicy, 428 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: pulpy products of certain plants covering and containing the seed. 429 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: These definitions have no tendency to show that tomatoes are 430 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: fruit as distinguished from vegetables in common speech or within 431 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,919 Speaker 1: the meaning of the terrifact. There being no evidence that 432 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: the words fruit and vegetables have acquired any special meaning 433 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: in trade or commerce, they must receive their ordinary meaning 434 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: of that meaning. The Court is bound to take judicial notice, 435 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 1: as it does in regard to all words in our 436 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 1: own tongue, and upon such a question, dictionaries are admitted 437 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: not as evidence, but only as aids to the memory 438 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 1: and understanding of the court. Gray's opinion went on to say, 439 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 1: quote Botanically speaking, tomatoes are the fruit of the vine, 440 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: just as are cucumbers, squashes, beans, and peas. But in 441 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 1: the common language of the people, whether cellars or consumers 442 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: of provisions, all these are vegetables which are grown in 443 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: kitchen gardens, in which whether eaten, cooked or raw, are 444 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: like potatoes, carrots, parsnips, turnips, beets, cauliflower, cabbage, celery, and lettuce, 445 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: usually served at dinner in with or after the soup, 446 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: fish or meats, which constitute the principal part of the repast, 447 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: and not like fruits generally as dessert. The opinion concluded quote, 448 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: the attempt to class tomatoes as fruit is not unlike 449 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: a recent attempt to class beans as seeds, of which 450 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: mister Justice Bradley, speaking for this Court, said, we do 451 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: not see why they should be classified as seeds anymore 452 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: than walnuts should be so classified. Both are seeds in 453 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: the language of botany or natural history, but not in 454 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: commerce nor in common parlance. On the other hand, in 455 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: speaking generally of provisions, beans may well be included under 456 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: the term vegetables as an article of food on our tables, 457 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: whether baked or boiled, or forming the basis of soup. 458 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: They are used as a vegetable as well when ripe 459 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: as when green. This is the principal use to which 460 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: they are put. Beyond the common knowledge which we have 461 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: on this subject, very little evidence is necessary or can 462 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: be produced. With that the Supreme Court affirmed the lower 463 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: Court's judgem so and the Supreme Court's viewed tomatoes are vegetables, 464 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: at least for the purpose of the tariff. That same day, 465 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court also issued its decision in Hollander versus Magone, 466 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: which was similarly about the meaning of words in the 467 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: context of the tariff law. Specifically, that question was whether 468 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: beer was liquor. Hollander and Company had paid a tariff 469 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: on some imported beer that had soured in transit. The 470 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: law did not allow the tariff to be waived on 471 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: liquors that had been damaged during shipping. Hollander's attorney argued 472 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: that this clause did not apply because this was beer, 473 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: not liquor. The court noted that the word liquor was 474 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: often used to mean an intoxicating beverage that had been distilled, 475 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: not one that was simply fermented, but that in the 476 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 1: context and placement of this term in the tariff law, 477 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: it was clearly meant to incorporate other intoxicating beverages, not 478 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: just distilled ones. Nicks versus Headnt has been cited in 479 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: more than fifty other state and federal court decisions since 480 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: eighteen ninety three, and a lot of them have to 481 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: do with the meanings of words, like whether a dog 482 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: rescue operation. 483 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 2: Was a kennel. If it was a kennel, it would 484 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 2: be in violation of zoning laws. That was in Coal 485 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 2: versus New Siwickly Township Zoning Hearing Board No said the 486 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 2: court dog rescues are not kennels or in United States 487 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 2: versus Peddix on whether bitcoins or money. Again no, because 488 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 2: in the common language of the people, money is government issued, 489 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 2: regulated dollars or things connected directly to dollars, like credit 490 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 2: cards or money orders. This decision was controversial because other 491 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 2: earlier decisions and at least one subsequent one, decided the opposite. 492 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 2: Or in Robinson versus Liberty Mutual Insurance Company on whether 493 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 2: an exclusion for property damage caused by insects and vermin 494 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 2: applied to spiders since spiders are aracnids and not insects. Yes, 495 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 2: the court ruled the exclusion did apply. We know that 496 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 2: spiders are technically iracnids, but clearly this provision applied to 497 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 2: them as well. 498 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: Should have just said bugs. Nicks versus Headen has also 499 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: been cited in broader discussions in the context of whether 500 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: dictionary definitions are evidence or if their aids to the court. 501 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: There are also many other cases that hinge on what 502 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: words mean that do not cite Nicks versus Headen. We'll 503 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: talk about a few of those on Friday, since they're 504 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: not directly connected to this one. Also, the terms ordinary meaning, 505 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: plain meaning, and common use. All of those show up 506 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: in legal arguments related to those ideas, and sometimes those 507 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 1: have slightly different meanings. In two thousand and five, New 508 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: Jersey chose the tomato as its state and vendegetable after 509 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: a group of fourth graders cited Nicks versus Headen in 510 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: a campaign for the tomato to be included among the choices. 511 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: The tomato is the state fruit in Ohio and Tennessee, 512 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: and in Arkansas, the South Arkansas vine right pink tomato 513 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: is both the state fruit and the state vegetable. Although 514 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: the act making this designation doesn't specifically cite Nicks versus Headen, 515 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: it does note that quote the tomato is botanically a 516 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 1: fruit and used as a vegetable. 517 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 2: Do you have delicious listener mail? I do I have 518 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 2: listener mail? That is from Jordan. Jordan's email is titled 519 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 2: Scott Joplin the Texarcana Native, but not really, and Jordan 520 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 2: wrote height Tracy Holly as someone who was born and 521 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 2: raised in Texarcana, I'm from the Texas side. Very important distinction. 522 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,040 Speaker 2: I love your episode on Scott Joplin. He's arguably the 523 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 2: most influential person from techs Arcana who's not from techs Arcana. 524 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 2: I distinctly remember growing up that anytime someone tried to 525 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,720 Speaker 2: choose him as a subject of a history or research paper, 526 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,760 Speaker 2: they usually had to switch topics or pivot to something 527 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 2: like the general history of ragtime, simply for the lack 528 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 2: of source material to meet the grading requirements. I loved 529 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 2: hearing all these new details about a figure whose face 530 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,239 Speaker 2: I've seen all my life on a mural downtown. I 531 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,720 Speaker 2: moved away almost fifteen years ago, but this episode happened 532 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 2: to come out the week before I went home to 533 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 2: see some friends. While I was in town, I went 534 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 2: to go take some pictures of that mural and was 535 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 2: pleased to find it had a major facelift. I've attached 536 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 2: some pictures. The mural was done by Art Pletcher with 537 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 2: surface bred by CD Little. It's located on the back 538 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,799 Speaker 2: of the Texarkana Regional Arts and Humanities Council or the 539 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 2: Track building at the corner of Main Street and West Third. 540 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 2: It's also across from the historic pro Theater. As a 541 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,320 Speaker 2: railroad town that seems some of its highs and lows, 542 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 2: this is now a lovely selection of historic downtown that 543 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 2: is recently being revived, and it was really cool to see, 544 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 2: if not for the episode, I wouldn't have taken the 545 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 2: time to go down and explore the area, so per usual. 546 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:16,799 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for your work. You provide me 547 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 2: with an endless supply of did you know facts that 548 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:23,360 Speaker 2: makes me sound much more well read than I actually am. 549 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 2: Also provided a pet tax of my parents' dog, Striker. 550 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 2: He's very anxious, very sweet border Collie born during the pandemic, 551 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,840 Speaker 2: so this is him emotionally exhausted after the family my 552 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 2: parents so said for the holidays had finally left. Thanks again, 553 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 2: Jordan inadvertently didn't send the dog picture and sent that 554 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 2: as a follow up, very cute, so sweet. I'm going 555 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 2: to say I did not look up the how to 556 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 2: pronounce pero theater, and it would not shock me to 557 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 2: learn that maybe it's per rot, because that seems like 558 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 2: the kind of word that maybe would have a different 559 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 2: local pronunciation than the one that is zixpected. Uh, yeah, 560 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 2: I don't I don't remember what word there was a 561 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 2: proper name on the show within the last year that 562 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 2: like had an extremely straightforward spelling and h like an 563 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 2: English Language definition standard pronunciation that I looked up as 564 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 2: a joke, like better make sure they don't say it 565 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 2: differently there haha. And it turned out they did, and 566 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 2: I was like, well, well, I wish I could remember 567 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 2: now which term it was. I don't remember anyway, this 568 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 2: is a beautiful mural. It's it's got Scott Joplin's face 569 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,359 Speaker 2: to his father of rag Time on it. Uh. And 570 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 2: then there's one that's got like a lot of sheet 571 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:55,239 Speaker 2: music covers for the entertainer, the santhemum pineapple rag trem 572 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 2: nisia maple leaf rag. It's very lovely. I like this 573 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,320 Speaker 2: mural a whole lot, and if I were in tech sarcana, 574 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 2: I would go have a look at it. So thank 575 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 2: you so much Jordan for sending this to us. 576 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: Uh. 577 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 2: If you would like to send us a note about 578 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 2: this or any other podcast, we're at History Podcasts at 579 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio dot com and we're all over social media at 580 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 2: miss in History. 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