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Speaker 1: Warning today's episode, Today's spoiler's for Gladiator too, So if

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Speaker 1: you haven't seen it, you want to see it. You've

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Speaker 1: been waiting for a decade plus twenty to almost twenty years?

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Speaker 1: Has it been twenty actually twenty twenty four years since

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Speaker 1: since the release of the original Gladiator to get the sequel,

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Speaker 1: then go watch it and then come back to us.

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Speaker 2: We'll be here.

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Speaker 3: Hello.

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Speaker 1: My name is Jasononcepsion and I'm Ersday Night. Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to x Ray Vision of the podcast where we dive

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Speaker 1: deep been to your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture.

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Speaker 1: Coming from IRA Podcast, where we're bringing you three episodes

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Speaker 1: a week, every Tuesday, every Thursday, with an extra eppisode

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Speaker 1: every Wednesday.

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Speaker 4: In today's episode, we're gonna be looking at the box

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Speaker 4: office and asking the question, is Glicked the new Barbenheimer?

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Speaker 4: I'm more interested in Baby Ratu, So listen to learn

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Speaker 4: about that terrifying double bill. In the airlock, we will

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Speaker 4: be talking a wide ranging discussion about Gladiator to Revenge

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Speaker 4: is here? Is it good? Is it bad? Is it fun?

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Speaker 4: What was Ridley Scott's last good movie? We will be

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Speaker 4: tapping into producer. We're gonna talk about it and we're

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Speaker 4: gonna see what happens.

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Speaker 1: But first previously on First Up Glad eat Or two

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Speaker 1: and Wickeder Box AMA's Prodigions.

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Speaker 4: So this is kind of unbelievable to me, but I

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Speaker 4: guess we'll see if it happens. Wicked is expected to

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Speaker 4: pull in a hundred Jason, watch out. They're gonna scoop

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Speaker 4: you for the sequel part two. It's coming there. It's

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Speaker 4: expected to pull one hundred and twenty five million to

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Speaker 4: one hundred and fifty million domestic opening this weekend. That's

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Speaker 4: why it go hear well. I have been very interested

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Speaker 4: to see how positive the reviews have been from all

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Speaker 4: kinds of spaces. The trailers have not been showcasing the

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Speaker 4: best of the movie, apparently, and apparently on the big

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Speaker 4: screen it looks a lot more like a traditional, beautiful

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Speaker 4: Hollywood classic than the kind of, you know, heavily cged

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Speaker 4: version that we're seeing when it translates to trailers. I'm

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Speaker 4: interested to see how that goes. And I do love Wicked,

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Speaker 4: so I'm a sucker. I will be there.

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Speaker 1: I remember reading the book.

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Speaker 4: Oh Man, Me Too when I was a kid.

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Speaker 1: In like in high school or something, and being like,

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Speaker 1: holy shit, this is awesome, and never expecting that they'd

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Speaker 1: make it into it.

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Speaker 4: No and the and yeah, the songs of bangers and

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Speaker 4: it's gonna be This has been a wild press tour,

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Speaker 4: so that's gonna be one that lives in infamy, and

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Speaker 4: it will be interesting to see how it does. Also,

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Speaker 4: you know that they think the movie is going to

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Speaker 4: be successful because they've already announced the on Christmas Day

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Speaker 4: they will be releasing a singer long version that actually

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Speaker 4: has all the words and everything and kind of encourages singing,

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Speaker 4: So that'll be interesting and it's not just Wicked. Opening

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Speaker 4: this weekend, we also have Gladiator two, which has already

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Speaker 4: been a sizeable hit outside of the US, and it

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Speaker 4: will be hitting stateside sixty million plus opening, so actually

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Speaker 4: very similar Barbie Oppenheimer's styles. It will be the biggest

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Speaker 4: start for an rated movie in November and the best

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Speaker 4: ever three day total for Ridley Scott and star Denzel Washington.

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Speaker 4: I also think this could go a little bit higher

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Speaker 4: because of things like forty X and IMAX. It'll be

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Speaker 4: interesting to see, and also we know that there's a

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Speaker 4: lot of people who just love thinking about the Roman Empire.

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Speaker 4: We are we are obsessed with the Roman Empire, as a.

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Speaker 1: P as a race, as a human beings.

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Speaker 4: We are obsessed with them. So that, yeah, it's gonna

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Speaker 4: be interesting. I do think this is the closest that

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Speaker 4: we've had to a Bobenheimer. As much as every studio

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Speaker 4: has tried to make it happen, I think this one,

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Speaker 4: box office wise, is gonna be our closest.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So next up is Ridley Scott and he's out here

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Speaker 4: denying Denzel Washington's Gladiator. I'm sorry, Ridley Scott. I've seen

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Speaker 4: Gladiator two and absolutely there were like twenty five moments

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Speaker 4: where there were obviously could have been a gay kiss.

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Speaker 4: I'm not believe in this, Ridley Scott.

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Speaker 1: It is sprinkled all through it. So for those who

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Speaker 1: of you who missed it, Denzel Washington referenced a same

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Speaker 1: sex kiss that was in a Gladiator two but that

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Speaker 1: he says was cut because the powers it be in

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Speaker 1: the studio or wherever whoever got quote unquote chicken. Ridley

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Speaker 1: Scott comes out and says, no, that's bullshit. They never

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Speaker 1: did backed at the moment it didn't happen, he says. Now,

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Speaker 1: Denzel said, just you know, just for context, ends it

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Speaker 1: was saying it was just like a peck on the lips, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, I don't know. I grew up around

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Speaker 1: a lot of Italians. There's a lot of saying on

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Speaker 1: the cheek. Yeah, like there's a lot of guys kissing

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Speaker 1: on the cheek, and that was very normal. That said,

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Speaker 1: he continues, quote it really as much ado about nothing,

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Speaker 1: Denzel said, they're making more of it than it was.

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Speaker 1: I kissed him on his hands, I gave him a pack,

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Speaker 1: and I killed him. I'll say this, I mean, he's

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Speaker 1: spoiler his character backrod Is at one point says, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I like a guy sometimes too.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. But it's funny because throughout the movie and the screening,

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Speaker 4: I was in like a home every time that he

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Speaker 4: was seeing someone and being a little bit fruity with

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Speaker 4: and we were like, this is why they cut it.

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Speaker 4: This is where they cut the guess like, so sorry,

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Speaker 4: It's it's just how it is, Ridley Scott. Everyone's always

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Speaker 4: going to be thinking about Denzel's gay kiss that got

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Speaker 4: cut because he's Denzel Washington. He's the best thing about

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Speaker 4: the movie.

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Speaker 1: Next up, spoiler alert, glad Eater Too is done historically accurate.

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Speaker 4: Why did anyone think it was historically accurate. That's my

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Speaker 4: first thing.

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Speaker 1: Historian Charlotte Higgins has come out and said, it's none

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Speaker 1: of this shit. You would have appaed there's no sharks

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Speaker 1: the area. Da YadA, YadA, YadA. Don't worry about it, folks,

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Speaker 1: don't worry about it. But yet, yes, historians are upset

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Speaker 1: at Ridley Scott, yet again, continuing the theme from from Napoleon,

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Speaker 1: where Napoleonic historians were equally as pissed at really Scott,

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Speaker 1: they continue to be mad at him. He's a filmmaker,

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Speaker 1: not historian. It's fine.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this is one of the funniest things. It's like

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Speaker 4: they upset because like Denzel Washington drinks what looks like

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Speaker 4: a coffee not around for a thousand years, or tea

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Speaker 4: only has it at a cafe, there aren't any while

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Speaker 4: reading a paper. Only China has paper, guys. Come on,

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Speaker 4: it's like he's just He's just a guy reading a paper.

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Speaker 4: Like it's fine, don't worry about it.

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Speaker 1: Also, though, the criticism that the real Emperor Caracalla is

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Speaker 1: like a tougher looking guy based on coins in his statue.

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Speaker 1: Come on, we don't have a photo, right, who cares,

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Speaker 1: so shut.

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Speaker 2: Up, shut up?

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Speaker 4: Is that that? I guess what? They didn't even know

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Speaker 4: what a shark was. I don't care because as a

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Speaker 4: movie going individual, I'm not going to gladiate it too

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Speaker 4: because I want to know about history.

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Speaker 1: If I want to do that, I'll read the horrible

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Speaker 1: history books.

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Speaker 4: I want to see the Colosseum flooded, and I want

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Speaker 4: to see men having to fight for their lives as

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Speaker 4: sharks eat them. That's why I'm going to the cinema.

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Speaker 4: I'm not going there to learn about ancient Rome.

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Speaker 1: The problem with our education system is not Gladiator Too

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Speaker 1: and reading. That's God's depiction of the of the fucking

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Speaker 1: Roman Empire. Coming up next a Gladiator gladiat two Gladiator

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Speaker 1: too quick recap off the top of the Dome of

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Speaker 1: the Dome. It is sixteen years after Maximus's glorious death

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Speaker 1: in the in the arena. But guess what, nothing has changed.

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Speaker 1: In fact, it got worse because now.

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Speaker 4: That's too creepy antas.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Cobbins killed the last good emperor who is his dad,

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Speaker 1: and we followed up from there, which is a bunch

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Speaker 1: of bad emperors. And now we've got twin co emperors

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Speaker 1: Galba and Caracalla, and they're a fucking mess. The empire

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Speaker 1: is worse than ever. And we open it the Kingdom

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Speaker 1: of Numidia, which spanned what is much of what is

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Speaker 1: modern day Algeria. The Romans are going in. They're gonna

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Speaker 1: conquer it. And guess who lives there? A guy named.

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Speaker 4: Hanno who is strange name choice.

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Speaker 1: The son of Maximus and Lucilla from the first movie.

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Speaker 1: He ran away and now he's living here in in Numidia.

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Speaker 4: Because it's a legacy sequel, you have to have that

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Speaker 4: kind of.

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Speaker 1: Strange connecty, some sort of genetic air to the characters

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Speaker 1: from the first film. Anyway, Numidia falls, his wife and

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Speaker 1: his wife is killed. There's a lot of frigid in

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Speaker 1: this movie.

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Speaker 4: Oh baby, the women are getting fridged, and they get

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Speaker 4: fridged in the same way every time.

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Speaker 1: It's so funny. What do well ship?

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Speaker 4: Is there?

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Speaker 1: Do we do? We have need to come up with

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Speaker 1: a different term. If there's no refrigeration.

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Speaker 4: No, I think it's been like it's been dry aged.

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Speaker 4: It's been it's been long enough that we know what

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Speaker 4: fridging means. But hey, you could say they've been arrowed

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Speaker 4: because they both get shot in chests with an arrow,

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Speaker 4: so we can make up our own new term.

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Speaker 1: So Hannah now has this grudge against the Roman Empire,

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Speaker 1: and in particular the general who carried out the attack,

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Speaker 1: who led the attack, Marcus aicacious oh lad By the underused,

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Speaker 1: very underused, the sexy Pedro. We talk about that I

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Speaker 1: needed a little bit more Pedro.

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Speaker 4: They should have used him more. He's a very interesting

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Speaker 4: character who gets to have an emotionally conflicted relationship with

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Speaker 4: being a part of a colonizer at all, and I

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Speaker 4: think that that would have been very interesting to explore more.

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Speaker 1: Hannah is taken prisoner. He ends up at a gladiator

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Speaker 1: school run by Macrinus Denzel Washington. Macronus is a a

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Speaker 1: very successful procure trainer and purveyor of gladiator content, and

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Speaker 1: he sees something in young Hanno, a rage that is

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Speaker 1: very attractive to him, and he thinks, I can use

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Speaker 1: you to further my ends, which are mysterious for much

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Speaker 1: of the movie they are.

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Speaker 4: And also, can I just say the rage that he

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Speaker 4: sees in Hannah comes from the fact that Hannoh kills

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Speaker 4: a baboon by biting its arm. It is in one

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Speaker 4: of the most outrageous and early scenes of the movie

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Speaker 4: where they unleash baboons and he's like fighting the baboon

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Speaker 4: and the boon scat of him, and then he's killing

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Speaker 4: the baboon. If you're a person who frequently goes un

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Speaker 4: does the dog die, this is not the movie for you.

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Speaker 2: Yo.

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Speaker 1: No, there's a there's a tremendous amount of tremendous amount

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Speaker 1: of cg and alness, but like animal carcasses abound. Macrinus

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Speaker 1: takes hand to Rome and shows him off. Yeah, he

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Speaker 1: has him do a private gladiator fight in front of

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Speaker 1: the emperors, like in a private house. Uh, the house

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Speaker 1: of this guy Thracks is his name Thrax.

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Speaker 4: I think it's Thrags or Thracks, But yeah, he who

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Speaker 4: seems like a big contender for someone Denzel may have kissed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Thrax is like a senator level guy who has

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Speaker 1: his fingers in a lot of pies around Rome, and.

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Speaker 4: He has a serious gambling problem and is a serious

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Speaker 4: gambling problem.

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Speaker 1: And in what I think is the best line in

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Speaker 1: the movie, Uh, Denzel ends up like basically taking over

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Speaker 1: this guy's house because this guy owes him so much money.

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Speaker 1: And I think the best line of the movie is

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Speaker 1: is backward is going I own your house?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I own your house, So get back in?

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Speaker 1: Is like at anyway, While this is going going on

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Speaker 1: and Hanno is going through various gladiator bouts across Rome, Lucilla,

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Speaker 1: daughter of Marcus Aurelius, is still pining over her missing son.

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Speaker 1: She is now married to General Acasius, and she continues

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Speaker 1: to harbor her father's dream of a revitalized Roman republic,

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Speaker 1: and she's looking for a way to unlicia conspiracy, by

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Speaker 1: which the twin emperors are overthrown and the senators are

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Speaker 1: put back in charge and Rome is given back to

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Speaker 1: the people.

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Speaker 4: I have to say she is that is what she

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Speaker 4: claims she wants. But she's also married to the guy

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Speaker 4: who's just been going around doing stuff for the twin empress.

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Speaker 4: So I feel like there's a conflict of interest here.

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Speaker 4: I feel like she could have she could have worked

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Speaker 4: a bit faster to get it back.

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Speaker 1: Just to put a finer point on that, Marcus Eurelius

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Speaker 1: was complaining about how depraved Rome had become, and there

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Speaker 1: was a dream of Rome. You only need to whisper

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Speaker 1: its name and it would disappear. It was so so fragile.

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Speaker 1: It's like, hold on, you're the emperor, right, couldn't you

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Speaker 1: do something about it? Like it seems like the guy

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Speaker 1: to talk to you about fixing it is you. How

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Speaker 1: about I get it that you couldn't figure it out.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you couldn't put your dream into action,

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Speaker 1: I don't think anybody else is going to be able to,

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Speaker 1: because you are literally the emperor of my fucking guy anyway.

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Speaker 1: So that's Lucilla is continuing to conspire. There are a

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Speaker 1: bunch of gladiatorior matches through which Hanno like grows and

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Speaker 1: grows and grows in influence in Rome because everybody's like, wow,

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Speaker 1: cool guy. Meanwhile, Macrinus continues to plot. Everything comes to

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Speaker 1: a head. Macronus ends up engineering the deaths of the

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Speaker 1: emperors in order to wipe out Marcus Aurelius's bloodline. Hanno

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Speaker 1: and Macronus have a big fight, and then Hanno makes

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Speaker 1: like a big speech in front of the dueling armies

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Speaker 1: of Rome, the Praetorians and this kind of rebellious army

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Speaker 1: that had been assembled by Lucilla and Asia. General Acasius

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Speaker 1: and he I guess unifies the the the armies of

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Speaker 1: Rome who acclaim him, and that's and that's basically the

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Speaker 1: end of the movie. Yes, am I wrong?

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Speaker 4: Correct?

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Speaker 1: He then he then tells everybody who he is, and

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Speaker 1: everybody's like, okay, yeah, let's know. Uh, well, we're going

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Speaker 1: to take a break to talk to our sponsors, who uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, are just chomping at the bit like a

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Speaker 1: bunch of Mediterranean sharks swimming in the Amphithea. And then

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Speaker 1: we'll be back and we're gonna welcome back super producer Joel,

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Speaker 1: who I watched the movie with last night, and watched

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Speaker 1: the movie with all of us, and we're gonna discuss.

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Speaker 4: Glad You're too.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back, Joelle, Welcome to the program.

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Speaker 4: Yo.

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Speaker 1: Let's discuss hi now, glad eat too? And our overall thoughts.

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Speaker 1: What are our overall thoughts? Joel? Let's start with you.

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Speaker 3: I think I had turned to you at the end

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Speaker 3: of the movie and gave a look of like huh.

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Speaker 3: And I think maybe the final shot of that movie

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Speaker 3: sums it up perfectly. If you've seen the first movie,

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Speaker 3: you know there is a motif of Max was walking

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Speaker 3: through a wheat field and it's akin to heaven. You

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Speaker 3: understand this is his ideal. He wants to go home,

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Speaker 3: he wants to be where the wheat is growing. It's beautiful, Okay.

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Speaker 5: The final sequences.

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Speaker 3: His son picking up some dirt and being like, Dad,

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Speaker 3: speak to me, and the sky looks really cool in

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Speaker 3: like the late nineties, early two thousands kind of way,

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Speaker 3: clouds just racing across.

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Speaker 1: I will say I love the I love the different

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Speaker 1: visual motifs that they've there's a different visual palette in

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Speaker 1: this movie that I like.

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Speaker 4: I do like as well that he gets his own

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Speaker 4: weird underworld kind of off the life segment Heaven. He

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Speaker 4: is more like he has to fight his way back

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Speaker 4: from the underworld, which I thought was interesting. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: when it's the end and he's like that talk to

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Speaker 4: me and then it's just like fallows on the whe

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Speaker 4: I'm like, come, actually.

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Speaker 2: It's just like that.

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Speaker 5: And you're just like, wait, what is this movie about?

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Speaker 1: What happens? I mean, Joelle, you're I remember turning to

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Speaker 1: you when we both kind of look gave each other

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Speaker 1: look and my initial I like the movie. I want

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Speaker 1: to say that this is it's not a bad movie.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a fun movie. It is a fun movie,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't have you could my senses, it will

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Speaker 1: not have the resonance of the original.

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Speaker 4: I don't feel like the longevity.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, it also feels like three movies kind of mashed

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Speaker 1: together before we get into that. Rosie your thoughts, No, no,

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Speaker 1: I agree.

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Speaker 4: So I saw it in forty X, which was honestly

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Speaker 4: one of the most could.

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Speaker 1: You smell it silly? Yes, the smell? Did the shirt

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Speaker 1: spray sprayed me with water and not just that.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if you've ever been to like London

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Speaker 4: dungeons or like a museum where they try and replicate

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Speaker 4: the sense of like you're in medieval times or whatever. Dude,

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Speaker 4: they sprayed out so many nasty smells during that movie.

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Speaker 4: But the worst part was when they were burning the

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Speaker 4: bodies at the beginning in Numidia and they put like

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Speaker 4: a barbecue smell out and I was like, guys, I

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Speaker 4: don't want to smell like the bush.

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Speaker 1: Of a conquered somebody.

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Speaker 4: Some I was like, guys, I don't this is not

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Speaker 4: the correct smell. But yeah it was. I san I

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Speaker 4: am very used to at this point these kind of

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Speaker 4: like legacy sequels where they're essentially more of a remake.

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Speaker 4: I do think this one is interesting because it is

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Speaker 4: that until you know two thirds of the way through

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Speaker 4: the movie, and then it changes focus too. Uh you

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Speaker 4: know the character who I do think is the most

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Speaker 4: interesting character in the movie, which is the Denzel Washington character.

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Speaker 4: But complete make that decision sooner, Ridley Scott.

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Speaker 1: Let's okay, So before we get to that important question

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Speaker 1: that must be answered, which we raise in our various

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Speaker 1: preview episodes going into this, does Paul Mescal plays Hanno,

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Speaker 1: the son of Maximus? And and uh so does Paul

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Speaker 1: Scout have the juice? Yes or no? Joelle? Does he

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Speaker 1: have the juice?

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Speaker 3: Here we go, Okay, here's my takeaway. Russell Crowe comes

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Speaker 3: in at like thirty six. I think is an actor

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Speaker 3: when they're filming.

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Speaker 4: Yes, so much present.

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Speaker 5: He is a fucking leader. You understand immediately I'll follow this.

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Speaker 5: I'd have no training in war, but if he was

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Speaker 5: like you got this, I'd be like, we totally have this.

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Speaker 3: You would follow him into war. And it's so precise

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Speaker 3: and clean. He's focused, he's and he's like a very

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Speaker 3: full adult. He's like, I have a family, I just

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Speaker 3: want to go home and I'm tired of work. Oh

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Speaker 3: I hear you, buddy, I get it. Paul reads to

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Speaker 3: me very young like yes, which is fine except for

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Speaker 3: that they place his story immediately over Russell Crose and

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Speaker 3: because of that, he's not allowed to have the juice.

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Speaker 3: I think performance wise, there are moments where you're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: Paul is giving it to me. Look at how he's

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Speaker 3: buddy buddy with everybody. He's much more of a bro

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Speaker 3: than a leader. And I I don't think they hit

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Speaker 3: that angle strong enough.

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Speaker 1: I completely agree, but let Rosie you go first.

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Speaker 4: Juice juice or no juice, juice the juice omitter. At

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Speaker 4: the beginning, my friend Annie looked at me and she said,

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Speaker 4: she said, he doesn't have the juice. She said that

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Speaker 4: to me, and I said, I looked at her and

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Speaker 4: I was like, I think you're right, but I'm not

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Speaker 4: gonna lie. I think for the third part of the movie,

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Speaker 4: the part where it's this different movie that follows, you know,

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Speaker 4: the Denzel Washington character, I feel like there is a

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Speaker 4: version of Hannah where Paul Mascal does have the juice.

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Speaker 4: When he's basically like like Joelle said, he's more of

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Speaker 4: this kind of like every man, so of the earth,

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Speaker 4: like friend and that's how he gets people, and that

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Speaker 4: is so opposite from the Denzel Washington character who just

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Speaker 4: wants power, who wants to be on top. That that

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Speaker 4: works really well. So at the end I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 4: he does have the juice for this part of the movie,

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Speaker 4: but I don't think for the first two parts. I

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Speaker 4: don't know if he had the juice. Though I will

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Speaker 4: say the Boon fight scene he had the juice for

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Speaker 4: that scene. That's not a lot of who would have

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Speaker 4: given it as hard as he gave it in that scene. Jason,

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Speaker 4: what about you?

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Speaker 1: I think that he has some juice, But like Joelle,

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Speaker 1: I think it's they didn't squeeze his unique juice in

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Speaker 1: the right way for this film. I think you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: There are moments. Here's the two things that I think

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Speaker 1: stood out to me as oh shit, that's some juice.

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Speaker 4: That's some that's some deliciously freshly squeeze.

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Speaker 1: That's some uniquely Irish mescallion scenian juice. Here is the

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Speaker 1: two things. One his voice. He is such a resonant

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Speaker 1: basso voice, and it's such a laconic role. Right, He's

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Speaker 1: got to talk, He's gotta speak more. Yes, because when

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Speaker 1: he speaks, I am like leaning forward too. He does

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Speaker 1: have a uniquely he's younger obviously, I think he's like

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Speaker 1: not quite thirty canonically in this his character in this

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Speaker 1: in this, in this film, and thus there's like a

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Speaker 1: jocularity and a joking around like his his fellow gladiators

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Speaker 1: kind of like mock him for the thing and it's

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Speaker 1: and the way he deals with it is wonderful and

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Speaker 1: those two things that kind of very irish wit and

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Speaker 1: his deep voice. I wanted more of those truths, and

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Speaker 1: I felt like I didn't.

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Speaker 3: Yes, he should have held right back with them and

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Speaker 3: become back like I was like, what's happening here?

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Speaker 2: I think it was a nice building.

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Speaker 5: He played it well, but for me, I do think as.

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Speaker 4: Well, like the choice to always have him not speak

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Speaker 4: and then you're like, oh, well, when he does speak,

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Speaker 4: it makes such an impact. But I'm like, no, he's

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Speaker 4: a great speaker. He's an Auretsa, Like he has this

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Speaker 4: wonderful voice and people listen to him and so like

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Speaker 4: you get those moments when he does the poetry to

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Speaker 4: quotes true jumpers and stuff, and I'm like, but let's

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Speaker 4: have more of that, like not always people dude.

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Speaker 5: Quotes what kind of person quotes poetry?

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Speaker 3: And then at the moment of uniting your country in

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Speaker 3: the finale.

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Speaker 2: I'm not a speaker.

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Speaker 1: I was like, what you quoted Virgil at the presence

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Speaker 1: of the twin emperor?

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Speaker 4: You know?

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Speaker 3: And it was perfect after straight killing a man, after

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Speaker 3: begging him to be like, bro, we don't have to

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Speaker 3: do this for their entertainment, and that guy was like, actually, bro,

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Speaker 3: I'm bought in on the entertainment aspect of it, and

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Speaker 3: I came to lead. He's like, merks him in up

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Speaker 3: one of my favorite fights of this film, and then

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Speaker 3: he quotes Virgil. It's the twins are so confused. It

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Speaker 3: sparks something and the guy who owns him right now

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Speaker 3: like it's a perfect sequence. I don't understand why, Yes,

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Speaker 3: there it works. And then at the end they were

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Speaker 3: just like, I'm not a no, we get it.

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Speaker 4: You're a man of the people, know, say something cool.

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Speaker 4: Your dad taught you cool poetry. That's a good thing,

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Speaker 4: like it would.

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Speaker 1: There's also there's also a moment where he's like, as

433
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,439
Speaker 1: you may have noted, like I love an irishman, I

434
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: really do. I'm a fan of Irish culture and history

435
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: and an Irish hell. I just think that, you know,

436
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: a lot of our a lot of the a lot

437
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: of our fantasy tropes come from Irish folklore, which is

438
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 1: very interesting to make sure. Anyway, Uh, Mescal has this

439
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 1: very like in my mind irishman thing where where when

440
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 1: he really gets like reving talking wise rack in his

441
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: rant con tour mode, he kind of goes out of

442
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: the side of his mouth, like you see his mouth

443
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: go like this, and he starts out of the out

444
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 1: of the side. And there was a couple moments like

445
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: that where he was like addressing gladiators and stuff and

446
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: doing that, and I was like, yes, more but and

447
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: we just and I felt like that's the Mescal juice

448
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: and we needed to get more into that, more into

449
00:25:58,640 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 1: that juice.

450
00:25:59,200 --> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 4: I agree.

451
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: I will also say that for me, it felt like

452
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: at a certain point making this movie, people got worried

453
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 1: that Mescal doesn't have the juice and they were like,

454
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: more Denzel like, ramp it up. Maybe he's the guy

455
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: and the juice, the juices, Like the arena is filled

456
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 1: that his juice, and that is what the sharks are

457
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: swimming in. The swing did sell.

458
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 3: His wardrobe, choreography, constantly adjusting and positioning, the dangling of

459
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 3: the This is an actor who has full understanding of

460
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 3: how a wardrobe can increase your character, but who also

461
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 3: gets to be He gets to finally be in his

462
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 3: old man era. He's like, I'm not going for rewards,

463
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 3: I'm not really here to you anything other but freaking master.

464
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 4: Probably the only person who will even look in at

465
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 4: awards from this movie.

466
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 1: I think he I think he'll get down. Also, he

467
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: should be, Yes, he should be.

468
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 4: Denzel Like, no one can wear a slightly little air

469
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 4: ring like Denzel.

470
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: Like, he's gonna.

471
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,199
Speaker 4: Wear that sly little air ring and he's gonna be

472
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 4: like looking around with that grin, and you're just thinking,

473
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 4: like you can arm Like I believe it.

474
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 5: You're gonna do the lighting in the chaos in the back.

475
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 1: Yes, again, the moment where he he's fully like trapped

476
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: tracks in his web of debt. He's made him completely

477
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: a creature of his own ownership. And there's that moment

478
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: where he'd get knocked on that's his door and is like,

479
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: this is my house now, and he goes in various

480
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: ways just says this is.

481
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 4: My house, gets out, gets out.

482
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 1: And that was truly the most magnet for me, the

483
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 1: most magnetic scene in the entire film, where I'm just

484
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: like more of the Bill Washing did say, get out

485
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: of my fucking house.

486
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 4: So good house.

487
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 3: He's having so much and Timmy Jay gives him a

488
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 3: lot to play off of as their acts is really debul.

489
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: Now, this is a film that is missing an antagonist

490
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: for much of it, and I think that's part of

491
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: the play.

492
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 4: I think they could have.

493
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 1: It's unclear who the who the bad guy is. You

494
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: think it's maybe Acacious, because it's not Hannah wants to

495
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: kill him. You think it's maybe the Twin Emperors because

496
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 1: they're so despicable and and we should.

497
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 4: Have got more of them because they have so much fun.

498
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 4: They did a great job, they knew what they needed

499
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 4: to do, scene chewing like growdious and just instantly hate

500
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 4: the ball. But then they get you know, dispensed with

501
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 4: pretty quickly. Though. I will say in forty X spoiler alert, guys,

502
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 4: when Denzel chops one of their heads off, they sprayed

503
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 4: us with water and every in the cinema.

504
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: And yeah, good. Anyway, it emerges. It emerges maybe two

505
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: thirds of the way third act. It emerges that oh,

506
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: Macrinus is our antagonist and has been pulling these strings up.

507
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: And my problem and my issue. I love that, I

508
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: truly love that. I just wish that had been in

509
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: the entire movie exactly because two issues for me with that. One,

510
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: it's not clear throughout the entire movie who the bad

511
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: guy is, and it should and if it was going

512
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: to be Macronus, I love it, but there should have

513
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: been more stuff, definitely. Two, let's talk about what Macronus's

514
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: motivation is. Why is he trying to tear down the

515
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: emperor Empire? Now he says something I'm but I'm not

516
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: sure it sells. He basically is, like he tells Lucilla,

517
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: he reveals that at one point Marcus Aurelius had owned him.

518
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: He had been an enslaved person in the service of

519
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: Marcus Aurelius, and that apparently is why he wants specifically

520
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: to tear down the Emperor the Empire and wipe out

521
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: her bloodline. Did that carry for anybody, because it kind

522
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: of didn't sell for me.

523
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 4: To me, it's sold because I just think that that's

524
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 4: like But ironically I think the issue is Denzel sells it.

525
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 4: But also that is almost like a that's an uncorruptible reason,

526
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 4: Like we can't be mad at him because of that,

527
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 4: So like that doesn't make him an antagonist. And I

528
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 4: think that's the issue is like that reveal and be like, oh,

529
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 4: and he's our antagonist because he wants to wipe them

530
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 4: out and it's like pro Rome sucks and he was enslaved.

531
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 4: So actually, like go for it, Denzel, Like I don't

532
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 4: think they were clean.

533
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 3: I'm totally fine with that being a motive, right, Like

534
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 3: I think you have zero rights is a great reason

535
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 3: to want to tear down Empire.

536
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 2: Completely understand that.

537
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 3: But from a character building I want to be on

538
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,719
Speaker 3: this guy's side sort of element. They don't give you

539
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 3: an interpersonal reason, that's true. They don't explore what that

540
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 3: was specifically like for him. They don't showcase any other

541
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 3: ways he's tried to maneuver through this side society. He

542
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 3: seems to have a grudge against Rome, but Rome as

543
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 3: an entity, it's people. The people he's with all the

544
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 3: time haven't seemed to do anything to him, which is

545
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 3: maybe not the case. Maybe Rome's been a healthscate for him.

546
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 3: But enough about his interior life, That's what I'm saying,

547
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 3: And he seems to want to. He's almost the complete

548
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 3: embodiment of it. He even has this line throughout where

549
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 3: he's like, it's a quote from the emperor who owned him,

550
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 3: granddaddy Emperor's Does anyone remember the direct quote?

551
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: Oh, it was. The greatest revenge is to to become

552
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: unlike the person who did the injury.

553
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 4: Mm hmm. How does he And he says that he no, no,

554
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 4: he doesn't. He says he disagrees, your dad was wrong.

555
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 4: The best thing is to become the person who did

556
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 4: the injury, and then you go on from then you

557
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 4: you do it yourself, like you do your own version

558
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 4: of the terrible thing, which I think they just it

559
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 4: feels like they just put that line in there at

560
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 4: the end to be like, this is why he's doing it.

561
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: Let me pitch my better version of Yeah, this is full.

562
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: This is with full acknowledgment that really Scott is a

563
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,719
Speaker 1: genius and has given us over the course of his

564
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: uh you know, incredibly stellar career, various movies that are iconic.

565
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 4: Here it is, Brandy.

566
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: I think you make it, first of all, you make

567
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: it more obvious that Macronus is the central figure. And

568
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: I think you do it this way. I think it's

569
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: really dumb that Hanno is the natural child of Maximus

570
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: and Lucilla. I think that's a stupid party. I think

571
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: that's really a dumb through line, like it doesn't make sense,

572
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: like something genetically passed to him and he has the

573
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: same kind of magnetism therefore because his father's I think

574
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: that's so stupid. Here's the better version to me. Macrinus

575
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: has a grudge against the Empire because Marcus Aurelius wasn't

576
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: the great man that everybody thinks he was. He had

577
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: a personal relationship with him, was enslaved by him, and

578
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: bears a grudge against Rome, the emperors, and the Aurelian

579
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: family in particular. He knows that Lucilla, still a major

580
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: player in Rome, has been looking for her son who

581
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: disappeared in the wake of Maximus. Is the whole Maximus

582
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: thing that was going on in Rome. And he finds

583
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: this guy Hanno in nu media and thinks, oh, this

584
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: is perfect. I'm going to go to Rome with this guy.

585
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to pass him off as the sun Maximus

586
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: and Lucille. I love that, and I'm going to use

587
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: him as a pawn to tear down the Empire that

588
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 1: to me is like a very simple arc and a

589
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: fun movie where we don't have to be like where

590
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: we don't have to deal with this weird the son

591
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: of Maximus thing that to me doesn't really go.

592
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 4: But also if they wanted to, they could still at

593
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 4: the end have a moment between him, like between Hannah

594
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 4: and Loscilla that implies that he really is the son,

595
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 4: just like Anastasia, you know, maybe yeah, you could have wait.

596
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 3: You don't know, you know, rather than it being like

597
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 3: shouldn't know.

598
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 4: The funny thing that I the thing I found the

599
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 4: beginning of the like throughout the movie, it both enticed

600
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 4: me and like frustrated me, was there was this version

601
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 4: of the movie where it was like kind of this

602
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 4: mystery about Maximus and this mystery of who Maximus was,

603
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 4: and and then like Maximus is his father, but at

604
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 4: the same time he knew Lascilla was his mom. He

605
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,800
Speaker 4: recognized Luscilla his mom, so there really wasn't a mystery,

606
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 4: And it was a shame because I felt like there

607
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 4: were these moments like, you know, when the guy who's

608
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 4: been healing him shows him the underground tomb where Maximus's

609
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 4: armor was that was really evocative and fun and quite

610
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 4: like spoaky and interesting. And I feel like there's a

611
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 4: version I think that you're kind of anister Anastasia idea

612
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 4: where it's like it's a it's a play, could have

613
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 4: added to that potential mystery and that that touch more

614
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 4: simple narrative that this movie does end up feeling like

615
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 4: it's three different movies, but it's three fun movies to watch.

616
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 4: But it's not like when you rewatch Gladiator, which we

617
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 4: did for our rewatch episode, which was really fun. You know,

618
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 4: I was shocked by how good that movie still felt.

619
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 4: I was like, whoa, this is like I understand, like

620
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 4: this is going to go down in the Hollywood cannon.

621
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 4: This movie does not necessarily feel like that. You know.

622
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 4: It definitely feels like a late stage sequel that Hollywood

623
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 4: is very into putting out right now. But I will say,

624
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 4: in Ridley Scott's favor, I appreciate that this is that

625
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,919
Speaker 4: late stage weird as fuck Ridley Scott shit where he's

626
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 4: just like I'm putting sharks in the colosseum, like I'm

627
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 4: having a baboon fight, Like you don't tell me what

628
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 4: to do. I'm fucking Ridley Scott, Like, that's the best

629
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 4: stuff to me from his most recent kind of over Like,

630
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 4: I really really enjoyed the weird late stage alien movies

631
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 4: that he did that are just so un like Hollywood

632
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 4: and so unsellable, and he's just like, they've got nothing

633
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 4: to do with other ones, and if they do, it's

634
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 4: in the weirdest possible way. And I appreciate that, like

635
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,720
Speaker 4: fuck uness of somebody who's been around in the business

636
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 4: for so long. But speaking of Ridley Scott and his movies, Jason,

637
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 4: what was the last time When was the last time

638
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 4: that Ridley Scott made like a truly great in the

639
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 4: Hollywood canon movie.

640
00:36:51,520 --> 00:37:08,479
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a quick brick and we're back.

641
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 1: Let's go twenty first century. Let's count up the twenty

642
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 1: first century of Ridley Scott, and it obviously starts with

643
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,760
Speaker 1: Gladiator two thousand. Wow. I think is a great movie.

644
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:19,879
Speaker 4: Fantastic movie.

645
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: Awesome movie.

646
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:21,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great.

647
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, two thousand and one, Black Hawk Down. I'll be

648
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: honest with you, I thought Tony Scott did this movie,

649
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: and in retrospect, I guess, okay, Ridley Scott made this movie.

650
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: I think that's a fine action movie, but also not

651
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: like a timeless no, and also.

652
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,720
Speaker 4: Like aged very badly politically as we understand more about

653
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 4: those kind of conflicts in the way that they are

654
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 4: then represented in Hollywood.

655
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: It we're just we were gunning down Somali's left and

656
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:56,879
Speaker 1: right in this movie and in a completely thoughtless kind

657
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 1: of kind of way. Next, Hannibal two thousand and one.

658
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 1: Didn't love this movie, but I thought there were some

659
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:08,240
Speaker 1: really creepy fun moments. Yeah. Any thoughts on on Hannibal

660
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:08,839
Speaker 1: two thousand and one.

661
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 4: No, The truth it's hard to come in to a

662
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 4: franchise and be like, yeah, Hannibal, I'm gonna do the

663
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 4: late stage. The truth is, is it a fun movie

664
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 4: to watch?

665
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 2: Yes?

666
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 4: Is it Silence of the Lambs?

667
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: No?

668
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 4: And then were you also even more hindered by the

669
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 4: fact that you know, twelve years later somebody like Brian

670
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,720
Speaker 4: fill is gonna come out and make a seminal Hannibal

671
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 4: story Like, but it's still got some fun moments and

672
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 4: Anthony Hopkins is having time of his life.

673
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: Match stick Men, Nicholas Cage, the Wonderful Sam Rockwell and

674
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: Alison Lohman. Where she been about these kind of u

675
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 1: two con men who become like father figures to a

676
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 1: burgeoning con artist. This is fun, a fun movie. Smaller movie,

677
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: and I like when Ridley Scott goes small like this.

678
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, so good movie but certainly not like a

679
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 1: timeless classic. Next two thousand and five's Kingdom of Heaven.

680
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: Bad movie in the theaters, but the director's cut, I

681
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 1: maintain is you are a true believer. In the director's cut,

682
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:17,439
Speaker 1: it's an indible film, like truly an unbelievable really great action,

683
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 1: incredible central character arc, wonderful like battle scenes, awesome, good movie.

684
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,240
Speaker 1: Two thousand and fives Came to Heaven, A Good Year,

685
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: two thousand and six, Anyone A Good Year?

686
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,439
Speaker 4: I have never seen this movie. It has Russell Crowe

687
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 4: in it, and it's like it's essentially like a Hallmark

688
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 4: movie where it's like a British investment broker inherits his

689
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 4: uncle's chateau where he spent much of his childhood and

690
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 4: he discovers a new, laid back lifestyle as he tries

691
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 4: to renovate the estate to be sold. That sounds like

692
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 4: a Wholemark movie to me.

693
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: Smaller film reuniting with Russell Crowe have not haven't seen it,

694
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: so I gonna have to check that One Gangster two

695
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 1: thousand and seven. I like some of American Gangster. I

696
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 1: think the performances, obviously Denzel is incredible, is amazing. I've

697
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 1: said this on numerous other podcasts. I'll say it again here.

698
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: American Gangster set in the winter in New York City.

699
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: It opens like around Thanksgiving and there's snow falling from

700
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: the sky and you can see in the background that

701
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:24,399
Speaker 1: the leaves are still on the trees. It's very clear

702
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 1: they film this like in summer or or spring, and

703
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: did summer or spring for winter, and it immediately takes

704
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: me out of the fun. I'm sorry. There's copious snow,

705
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: fake snow falling from the sky. Everybody's in these big overcoats,

706
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 1: and in the background of every scene full leaves on

707
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 1: the trees, fully bushed out, beautiful, the height of summer trees.

708
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 1: And it's always taken me out of it. And I

709
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: can't be unbiased about American guys for that reason. Does

710
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 1: do anybody think American.

711
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,720
Speaker 4: I like that it opened people's minds to the notion

712
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 4: that the police may be involved with drug dealing. I

713
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 4: think that that for a lot of people, like that

714
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 4: was like a really shocking thing, like, oh, the police

715
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 4: were the ones who like bought drugs into these neighborhoods, Like.

716
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

717
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,240
Speaker 4: So I appreciate Ridley Scott for opening some people's eyes

718
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 4: to that. But I watched it once. I thought it

719
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 4: was good.

720
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 3: I just feel like American Gangster works for me on

721
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,280
Speaker 3: a couple of levels. I feel like most black gangster

722
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 3: movies that are not black exploitation are like lateies, early

723
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 3: nineties and later like in time period, which is fine,

724
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 3: A lot of those movies are amazing, but like to

725
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 3: get Denzel in the classic like fifties gear, like just

726
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 3: from that level of aesthetics, that's really fun for me.

727
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 3: And I do think we get some great scenes like

728
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 3: Iris elba Is like chewing up.

729
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 2: The scenery, having a good ass time.

730
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 3: Like there's a lot of like iconic actors doing iconic

731
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 3: moments in that film. And I also like the idea

732
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 3: like we're not going to get a black like, I mean,

733
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 3: we just got one, but it wasn't very good. I

734
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 3: think exploring how the cops antagonize black organizations into additional

735
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:15,439
Speaker 3: crimes in order to is a fun watch. Yeah, from

736
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,280
Speaker 3: that angle, it was fun and it was like done

737
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 3: really well. But to your point, like the vibes of

738
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,439
Speaker 3: that movie are a little off, Like you don't get

739
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 3: the I don't even think you get the Crisplake New

740
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,919
Speaker 3: York cool all the way through, you know what I mean.

741
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 3: It's it's a missing an element.

742
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 4: I also feel like you can't do a movie when

743
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,800
Speaker 4: you're Ridley Scott and you're doing like a big movie

744
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 4: like that that was obviously a big oscar push movie

745
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:41,800
Speaker 4: that was meant to be another one of those Hollywood

746
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 4: canon movies. You can't just not pay attention to details

747
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 4: like that, like suddenly it's summary and there's too many

748
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 4: trees like those kind of things. I think that stuff matters,

749
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 4: So Jason, I appreciate that that is something that takes

750
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 4: you out of a movie because I also am impact

751
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 4: did by those kind of choices.

752
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: Next up the CIA thriller Body of Lies, which is

753
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: a fine movie, but I always it's a movie that

754
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: I always get mixed up with the Robert Redford brad

755
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 1: Pitt vehicle Spy Game.

756
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,720
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I prefer Spy Game.

757
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 1: I think Spy Game is the better version of that. Okay.

758
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: Next up twenty ten's robin Hood retelling of the robin

759
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:32,280
Speaker 1: Hood legend. Now here's the interesting thing about this robin

760
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 1: Hood script. It started as a medieval police procedural. Does

761
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:36,959
Speaker 1: anybody remember.

762
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 4: This, dude?

763
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 1: No, but I believe it. No. This script was on

764
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: the Blacklist for a while, you know, the famous the

765
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 1: list of best unproduced screenplays in Hollywood. I might be

766
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 1: getting this wrong, but I remember this being a very

767
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:56,720
Speaker 1: very buzzy Blacklist script because it treated the robin Hood

768
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:02,280
Speaker 1: legend as a police proceed None of that is evident

769
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 1: in the final film. That said, I don't think this

770
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: is a great movie, but I do have a soft

771
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 1: spot for this movie because I think Russell Crow is

772
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 1: good in it, and I think Uh Blanchette is good

773
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 1: in it. And you know, Mark Strong is wonderful, Mark Addie.

774
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 1: You get Oscar Isaac in an early role as a

775
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: absolutely villainous and contemptible King John, and it is he is.

776
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 1: He was like, there's this iconic moment in this Robinhood

777
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: where he where he says of robin Hood, he goes,

778
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: I brad him out and he goes like to the

779
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: he goes like to the top floor with the with

780
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: the bond read and I've loved Oscar Isaac since then.

781
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: Not a great movie, but but a fun movie.

782
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm English, so that is just like a lot

783
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 4: of great robin Hoods. And this, to me, I've tried

784
00:44:58,000 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 4: to watch it many times. I've tried to be open

785
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 4: to it. Oscar Isaac is the best thing about it.

786
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's great.

787
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 3: I really love the idea that we like it because

788
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 3: we're boring.

789
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 4: I'm just saying, you guys were not blessed with Like, dude,

790
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 4: when I was a kid. There is literally a TV

791
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 4: show called Maid Marian and Her Merry Men, which.

792
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:21,760
Speaker 1: Was like I used to watch that on BBC.

793
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,439
Speaker 4: It's like a reggae kiddy musical version of robin Hood.

794
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 4: Like we were blessed with many different versions.

795
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,919
Speaker 5: Okay, this one is like it's there.

796
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 4: I do try and rewatch it every soften because Robinhood

797
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 4: makes me feel nostalgic, just any version. But this one

798
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,839
Speaker 4: for me is just like it's too serious. I think

799
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 4: you've got to have a little bit of camp, or

800
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 4: you gotta go like so far to the other side

801
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,839
Speaker 4: of seriousness, like Prince of Thebes that it becomes camp.

802
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 4: This for me is a bit in the middle. But

803
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 4: it does have a great cast and Oscar Isaac is

804
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 4: really good.

805
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 1: Twenty twelve, we returned to the alien universe with Prometheus.

806
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:00,439
Speaker 1: We've talked about it. Good movie.

807
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,320
Speaker 4: I'm a Prometheus apologist. It's a good movie.

808
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 2: Yeah.

809
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 1: Next up, twenty thirteen's The Counselor, with a script from

810
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: a literary icon and giant one of my favorite authors,

811
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,280
Speaker 1: Cormac McCarthy. This movie's a mess.

812
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 4: It's a hot mess. It's at about the Counselor.

813
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 1: Hot mess. But this is definitely a movie where you

814
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: could I mean, the cast is like Fastbender, Penelope Cruz,

815
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: Karmen Diaz, Javier Barda, and Brad Pitt and it was

816
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 1: clear that they were like someone was like, hey, Cormac

817
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: McCarthy and Ridley scottter doing a movie, and everybody was like, yes,

818
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: I'll do it for five in this film. Next twenty

819
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 1: forty text it is God's.

820
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,320
Speaker 4: Oh god, dude, I'm what. I worked to the movie

821
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 4: theater when this came out, and we would like go

822
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 4: in on our lunch breaks and watch it just for jokes.

823
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 4: It was so bad. This is also notable because this

824
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 4: is when Ridley Scott said some real weird islamophobic shit

825
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 4: about why he cast Christian Bale in the movie, and

826
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,720
Speaker 4: everyone was like, bro, what's wrong with you? Terrible movie again.

827
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 4: Not when you're doing like a big biblical style movie,

828
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 4: you can't be too serious about it, and if you are,

829
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 4: you've got to be so sincere that it goes the

830
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 4: other way to camp like this is that very middle

831
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 4: ground bad stuff.

832
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 1: Can I say something absolutely? I know this is a

833
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 1: biblical film, but sacrilegious about Exodus, guys, and I think,

834
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:28,760
Speaker 1: I think please. The two thousand and two Rock feature

835
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,399
Speaker 1: The Scorpion King is a better film.

836
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 5: No, I agree, definitely.

837
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:39,280
Speaker 4: It habits some fun in the ancient times like God's

838
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 4: and King. No fun. No one's having fun, not at all,

839
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 4: just that horrible blue filtering.

840
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 1: Yeah oh yeah. Next up, twenty fifteen's The Martian, from

841
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 1: a best selling book by the novelist Andy Weir. I

842
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 1: like the book, I like the movie. Every thoughts about

843
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 1: the Martian. Great NASA movie, pro science.

844
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 4: Movie, which is space. If you like growing potatoes and poop,

845
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:05,839
Speaker 4: there's all kinds of things for you here.

846
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 3: Matt Dames, I love a mission impossible in safe like,

847
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 3: just how are we gonna do this? It's it seems impossible,

848
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 3: and then they're like, here's a sprinkle of science and

849
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,280
Speaker 3: some fantasy, and then bam, like you say.

850
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: The whole world.

851
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:19,479
Speaker 2: I would say it's fun.

852
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,240
Speaker 4: For his small movies, this is definitely like the peak

853
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 4: of what he can do when he goes.

854
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,399
Speaker 1: I think you're probably right. I think you're probably right.

855
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,919
Speaker 1: I think my one. I think it's a good movie.

856
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,879
Speaker 1: I think by one reservation. And the thing I felt

857
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 1: while seeing this was I felt like anybody could have

858
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 1: done this movie. It didn't feel I didn't feel the

859
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,320
Speaker 1: really Scottness in it. But that's it's a good movie.

860
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:47,320
Speaker 1: Next up, twenty seventeen, we get Too Alien Covenant.

861
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,320
Speaker 4: I'm a fan. I know it's not I'm a movie.

862
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 4: It's a weird gothic horror in space. I'm in. I'm

863
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 4: a fan. I like it. Good for you?

864
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 1: Yes, and the next is a non fiction adaptation of

865
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 1: a real life Event's twenty seventies All the Money in

866
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: the World.

867
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 4: Most notable because he re recorded all of the Kevin

868
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,800
Speaker 4: Spacey scenes and replaced him with I Believe Christopher Plumber.

869
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,800
Speaker 1: Christopher Plumber. Yeah, it does feel a little bit lumpy

870
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: that way, but I am not the Wahlberg guy. I

871
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 1: do respect the movie. I'm not a Wallburg guy, and

872
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,359
Speaker 1: I'm not a big fan of this movie. Next up

873
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, The Last Duel, Oh, Adam Driver, Julie Comer,

874
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: Ben Affleck. I like this movie. I think this is

875
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 1: probably his best film of the second decade of the

876
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:47,760
Speaker 1: twenty first century, if you want to put it that way.

877
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,439
Speaker 3: But I think them is this film might this film

878
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 3: might be a good film. I just can't stand to

879
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,760
Speaker 3: watch a bunch of men talk about a woman exactly exactly.

880
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 1: That's the issue with this is.

881
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 4: My biggest problem with this movie is like it is

882
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 4: in interestingly shot, it's weird to use as a lot.

883
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 4: He's definitely trying to do like I'm what if I

884
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 4: was small independent Ridley Scott, but I was working with

885
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 4: some of the biggest actors in the world. Also, for me,

886
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 4: the wigs were bad and I would rather like just

887
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 4: just change it's like you say, oh, based on a

888
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 4: real historical story. I would rather see the woman Jewel

889
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,800
Speaker 4: just make it up like you got you got blooming

890
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 4: killing even there and you got her like letting Adam

891
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 4: Driver like yea with her. No, I don't. I don't

892
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 4: buy it. I don't want to hear about it.

893
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: I think the thing that was the most interesting thing

894
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 1: about the film is also like the weakest storytelling device,

895
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 1: which is the last duel, which is again I think

896
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: it's a good movie. They go through like his version,

897
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 1: the other his version, and then they finally give you

898
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 1: her version, and I think that is really I can

899
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,879
Speaker 1: see now like the the idea like, oh, we're giving

900
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 1: her who's the last No, but it's just doesn't it

901
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 1: doesn't it?

902
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 4: We can her opinion, just have her yess of it

903
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 4: be the whole thing.

904
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 1: Especially that's the whole I think from her perspective, I

905
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 1: think that.

906
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 4: The setup of this idea of like what can men

907
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 4: in power get away with and how that hasn't changed

908
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:23,479
Speaker 4: throughout centuries is really really interesting. But yeah, like Joel said,

909
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,319
Speaker 4: I don't care about a bunch of men sitting around

910
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 4: talking about women's rape. But the next movie twenty twenty

911
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 4: one House of Gucci. Who doesn't love that movie Gucci?

912
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 1: You know what? A house of Gucci has a Gucci.

913
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: Here's here's my but here's my problem that has a

914
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 1: Gucci And excuse me, I'm talking about here's my problem

915
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 1: with the House of Gucci. I'm watching this and I'm going,

916
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 1: when does it get funny? Because this seems like it

917
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 1: should be funny, right, this should be an That's the

918
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:53,800
Speaker 1: real truth.

919
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 4: And the only manage money is when Jared Leto shows

920
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 4: up in like full prosthetics and he's like, it's to me, Johnny, Gucci,

921
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 4: I gotta be a part of the Goci and You're like,

922
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:08,280
Speaker 4: what is going on the Gucci?

923
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 1: You're gonna give it a Gucci brand, and it's like yeah,

924
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:15,399
Speaker 1: Jared Letto is like I'm in Austin Powers for and

925
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 1: everybody else is like, I'm in a serious film.

926
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 4: I believe.

927
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 2: Just to me, this is consistent.

928
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 4: This thing about this movie to me is like this

929
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 4: is literally like a made for TV movie. And people

930
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,360
Speaker 4: like Ship on Women all the time for watching Lifetime

931
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 4: or watching made for TV movies or rip from the

932
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 4: headline movies. But then when Bridley Scott does it exactly

933
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 4: the same, exactly the same tenor we're all supposed to

934
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 4: be like, yeah, this is like a serious dramatic film. No,

935
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:46,720
Speaker 4: Like you say, Jason should have been funnier.

936
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 1: Should have been a funny movie. I was thinking, I mean,

937
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 1: you see the the like set photos of Letto and

938
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: you're thinking, this is a hilarious movie and it just

939
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: never well.

940
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 4: So I will say, I actually know Italian people who

941
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 4: walked out of the movie the and that doesn't happen

942
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:09,239
Speaker 4: very often, that you're like that offended, but that really did.

943
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 4: That was a real thing that happened.

944
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 1: Next up, twenty twenty three's Apple TV plus Sony Pictures

945
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 1: co pro Napoleon. The epic story of Napoleon Bonapart finally

946
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:23,280
Speaker 1: comes to the screen.

947
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 4: Should have been funnier, in my opinion.

948
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:31,319
Speaker 1: I think, you know, honestly, like late stage Napoleon is

949
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 1: funny and they play it for lass a little bit,

950
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: and that is probably my favorite stuff in the movie.

951
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: I thought this movie should have been more. It was

952
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 1: like reaches for epic noss and never gets there.

953
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 4: I agree.

954
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:45,840
Speaker 1: I know it's so fortunate for me.

955
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, Bridley Scott. My ultimate version of Napoleon is

956
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:52,760
Speaker 4: Napoleon from Bill and Ted, and you'll never be able

957
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 4: to top it. That's that's to me. As the historically

958
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 4: accurate version of Billa of Napoleon, that's all I need.

959
00:53:58,040 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 1: I don't need the three Now we have Gladiator.

960
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,359
Speaker 4: Honestly, Gladiator too is looking pretty good after your listen

961
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 4: those movies.

962
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 2: That's pretty good.

963
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 1: So let's go in the twenty first century. Where does

964
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 1: Gladiator rank in the Ridley Scott move Is it number one?

965
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 1: It could be.

966
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 4: I think that when it comes to wide audience appeal,

967
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 4: fun that you have in the cinema, could you take

968
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 4: your family to go and see it during this holiday

969
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,359
Speaker 4: you know tunnel that we're about to go into. It's

970
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:30,760
Speaker 4: pretty high up there, because like I like, I really

971
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 4: like Haley and Covenant, I really like Prometheus. I think

972
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 4: both of those could be argued for many years about

973
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 4: their masterpiece status as weird sci fi spaces, but they're

974
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 4: not like wide audience appeal. They're not something that everybody

975
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:47,400
Speaker 4: can watch. They could also be equally as argued as boring,

976
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 4: even though I love them. So, like, I think Gladiated

977
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 4: two is pretty high up there in this over obviously, yeah,

978
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 4: I would say like I would say that it's definitely

979
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 4: in the top three, and the rest of them are

980
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 4: probably contentious. Whether you're an Alien fan or a Kingdom

981
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 4: of Heaven fan, go for it.

982
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 1: Here's my top three Ridley Scott in the twenty first century. Okay,

983
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 1: Kingdom of Heaven number one, director Scott number two, director's

984
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 1: cut number two, the Martian number three. It might be

985
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 1: Gladiator two or pro. I think Gladiator two, and then

986
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,280
Speaker 1: and then the Aliens.

987
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 4: Would finish up the top five.

988
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 2: And we're not counting Gladiator in our top three.

989
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:41,399
Speaker 4: Now, we're not counting Gladiators far and beyond. I would

990
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 4: say so.

991
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 1: I guess here's the question. Has he made a movie

992
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 1: as good as the original Gladiator in the twenty five

993
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: years since that movie came out?

994
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 2: I don't think so.

995
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 4: I don't think he's made a movie as consistently good

996
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:59,319
Speaker 4: as Gladiator, because that is not a movie where you're like,

997
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:01,959
Speaker 4: oh there's a or oh they should have cost someone else.

998
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 4: Most of the other movies can come with a bot.

999
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:09,920
Speaker 1: I think Kingdom of Heaven director's cut is is on

1000
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:14,799
Speaker 1: par with Gladiator. The problem being that one director's cut,

1001
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:18,760
Speaker 1: so obviously the theatrical cut is not great. And two,

1002
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:23,319
Speaker 1: as we've stated on previous podcasts, Orlando Bloom doesn't quite

1003
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 1: have the juice. Even though he's good in this, he

1004
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 1: just doesn't He does not have juice. I think my

1005
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:32,360
Speaker 1: scale has more juice than Orlando bloom sadly.

1006
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, I see.

1007
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:37,319
Speaker 3: The cultural impact of Gladiator is such that you can

1008
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:41,359
Speaker 3: still yell are you not entertaining? And like very into

1009
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 3: I think, and really hasn't touched that level of impact

1010
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 3: in its films. I think you could argue that Kingdom

1011
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 3: of Heaven Instructors Cut or The Martian just from a

1012
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 3: structural standpoint, are pretty close to the Gladiator and like,

1013
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:59,280
Speaker 3: this is a strong lead with a pretty clean story

1014
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 3: that's beautiful to look at and a fun time at

1015
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:04,839
Speaker 3: the movies and is engaging to the audience. But there's

1016
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 3: just something about Gladiator that I think, again, if I'm

1017
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 3: really looking from as an American, like for the American

1018
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 3: mystique of cinema, from the height of Russell Crowe as

1019
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 3: an actor, to some truly great villain work out of

1020
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 3: Joaquin who later goes on to be considered one of

1021
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 3: the greatest actors of his generation.

1022
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 4: It is definitely getting to see him that early on

1023
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 4: in this like such a fully bodied, horrifying, cool, creepy,

1024
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 4: gross role that almost makes it hard to watch. That

1025
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 4: is a very special thing, especially against the kind of heroic,

1026
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 4: straightforwardness that Russell Crowe brings to the screen as Maximus.

1027
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, And then there's like a very base

1028
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:52,640
Speaker 3: accessible level to the fights in that movie where you

1029
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 3: understand like how hard a hit is. And I think

1030
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 3: that's like the most important thing in a film is

1031
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 3: if I watching the film can feel the hit in

1032
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:01,439
Speaker 3: my buy. That to me is like when you're reaching

1033
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:05,959
Speaker 3: peak fight sequencing and shooting. And I think the way

1034
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 3: the fights escalate really drive the story, which makes it

1035
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 3: solidly a Gladiator film with the politics sort of just

1036
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 3: surrounding it, and it's delightful.

1037
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 5: It's something I think Gladiator Too misses out on, is

1038
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 5: the way the fights.

1039
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 3: Can impact narrative storytelling, and also like the drain on

1040
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 3: the fighter you're so exhausted for Russell by the end

1041
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 3: of Gladiator.

1042
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 1: To your point too about Crow and Denzel Washington's performance

1043
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 1: in The Gladiator Too, I also think you're so right

1044
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 1: about the way the opening of the first Gladiator, just

1045
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 1: in the little gestures and non speaking facial reactions of

1046
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 1: different characters gives you everything in that opening scene, like

1047
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 1: the tiredness of Marcus Aurelius when the battle is won

1048
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 1: and he just closes his eyes and kind of slumps

1049
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:59,440
Speaker 1: forward a little bit the way that commitists comes bouncing

1050
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 1: out of the her DoD. I miss it, like almost

1051
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:04,680
Speaker 1: tripping in the mud, you know, like that joke of

1052
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 1: a man, like all of that stuff is wonderful, and

1053
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 1: I feel like we never quite obviously Denzel has that

1054
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 1: and part of the conversation about Mesco not having the juices,

1055
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:19,919
Speaker 1: I don't know that we ever get anything as good

1056
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:23,560
Speaker 1: as like Maximus throwing his sword and spitting on the

1057
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 1: ground like in Gladiator one, to just be like that's

1058
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: who that guy.

1059
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you're right. I also think as well,

1060
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 4: we don't get those moments for like the other characters,

1061
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 4: whereas we do get them in Gladia A one. And

1062
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 4: I do think that part of the issue with GLADIAA

1063
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 4: two is even like Lecilla, like what is her life

1064
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 4: like outside of just being married and having a son?

1065
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 1: Like do you know what I mean?

1066
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 4: Like what does she do? What does she enjoy? And

1067
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 4: I do I feel like Denzel, it feels like maybe

1068
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 4: he had people look over the script, maybe Ridley was

1069
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 4: just very inspired by working with him, but the level

1070
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 4: of character work he got was so far beyond anyone

1071
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 4: else in the movie that you wonder like, where was

1072
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 4: that for everyone else.

1073
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 1: I just think that that's a guy who knows how

1074
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 1: to deliver when the camera is on and there's nothing

1075
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 1: on the page for him to say yeah.

1076
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 4: I just think that's what he can bring a level

1077
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 4: of like character and vibe to a role, even if

1078
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 4: it's not.

1079
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. To Joelle's point, just in the way he wears

1080
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:31,480
Speaker 1: his robes and touches his jewelry like that he's giving

1081
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 1: you everything and just that, And I think that it's

1082
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 1: just a level of craft that I don't know is

1083
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: there for everybody. I love pagro Pscal, I don't. He

1084
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 1: feels like almost an empty space in this movie. Like

1085
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 1: there's a moment where when he's burning the bodies and

1086
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 1: you could feel that he hates what he's doing, and

1087
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 1: I wanted more of that, and I just felt like

1088
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:01,920
Speaker 1: it came in and came out and then went away.

1089
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 1: Your point about Lucilla, here is this woman who at

1090
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 1: one point in the First Gladiator, Marcus Aurelius is like,

1091
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 1: if you had been a man, you should have would

1092
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 1: have been my error. Speak on it, Jason, and speak

1093
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: on so where the I never get the feeling that

1094
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:23,920
Speaker 1: it would have been so much more Interesting's not the

1095
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 1: tactician here that she would have been so much more

1096
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 1: interesting to me if she had been plotting and moving

1097
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 1: pieces around and doing things, and.

1098
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:34,760
Speaker 4: She could have been doing that for acacious like he

1099
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 4: was a hero. There's no reason he wouldn't have been

1100
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 4: able to rise those ranks if she was.

1101
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:41,640
Speaker 5: Why did she choose him as her chance? Why did

1102
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 5: she choose them here?

1103
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 1: Like I I'm well, I think.

1104
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 3: From what I understood in some of the language with

1105
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 3: the twins, they're like, don't forget the good graces we

1106
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 3: give your wife. Essentially, I think the reason he keeps

1107
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 3: serving is so that they don't come after her. And

1108
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 3: she's supposed to be there to be taking note, but

1109
01:01:58,280 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 3: to be fair, like I always see her do with

1110
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 3: like call yeah, when before we see her constantly listening

1111
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 3: in the background, moving around, moving pieces. Too many characters

1112
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:09,160
Speaker 3: in this film. We have like four solid main characters

1113
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 3: and then about five to six of them in the

1114
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 3: first film that are background players that are giving you

1115
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:17,120
Speaker 3: a lot of direction and information about the world at large.

1116
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:19,720
Speaker 3: There's so many people to follow, we never really get

1117
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 3: inside and any of them except for Denzel's character. And

1118
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 3: on top of all of that, I just don't understand

1119
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,560
Speaker 3: why am I following Lucia. I don't understand what he's

1120
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 3: if he's a creature of rage. They don't let him

1121
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 3: go far enough. Yeah, right, Like think about the battle

1122
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:34,760
Speaker 3: with Pedro. I'm sorry to keep going back to fights,

1123
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 3: but I really feel like if you're doing glad of

1124
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 3: your movie, like those have got to be peak and

1125
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 3: this is one of the weakest points of the film

1126
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:41,800
Speaker 3: for me. There's this great battle with Pedro where they

1127
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:43,720
Speaker 3: don't let them go along enough in the fight, like

1128
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:45,959
Speaker 3: Pedro should be begging for it, like please, I don't

1129
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:49,439
Speaker 3: want to fight you listen, And really that fight ends

1130
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 3: so quickly, even the death of him is so fast

1131
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 3: that this very important emotional crux that really should have

1132
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 3: driven a further wedge between him and his mother, Like

1133
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 3: all of this great like crunchy relation stuff is just

1134
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:03,080
Speaker 3: not there, and therefore the movie can't be as good

1135
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:03,919
Speaker 3: as the first one.

1136
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 1: I feel like to your point, Joelle, the fights didn't

1137
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:11,880
Speaker 1: have stakes in the way that the original.

1138
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 4: They were set pieces had sakes building.

1139
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 1: Right, Those were emotional story building moments in addition to

1140
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 1: being incredible set piece action, And these are just kind

1141
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 1: of incredible set piece action, yeah, and you don't feel that.

1142
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 4: Emotion, as Joel says, even then they're like not really

1143
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:36,600
Speaker 4: long enough. Like the scene in with the sharks and

1144
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 4: the boats is really fun, but it's over in like

1145
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:44,720
Speaker 4: two minutes, and I think like that here in Gladiate,

1146
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 4: it's too They do often replace like that drawn out

1147
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:55,080
Speaker 4: kind of tooth and claw fight for survival that feels

1148
01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:57,840
Speaker 4: so real in the first movie. They swap that here

1149
01:03:57,880 --> 01:04:01,080
Speaker 4: for kind of gore because there are a lot of like, yeah,

1150
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 4: brutal gory moments, which like some of the people in

1151
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,439
Speaker 4: the audience were, and my friend who doesn't really watch

1152
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:09,440
Speaker 4: horror were pretty like horrified by in a way that

1153
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:11,240
Speaker 4: I think the first movie is a lot more of

1154
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 4: your classic kind of ben her swords and sandals. There

1155
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 4: is brutality, but it's it's encased in this kind of

1156
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:22,320
Speaker 4: historical story. This stuff was just like blood sputing like

1157
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 4: gore instead of necessarily It's easier.

1158
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 3: To understand the violence in the first one because so

1159
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:30,680
Speaker 3: much of it is said like you're like, oh, they're

1160
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 3: setting them up to fail, like consistently setting them up

1161
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:36,120
Speaker 3: to fail, which you don't get as much as here,

1162
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 3: Like you would think, oh, they're frastractional, like, but they're

1163
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 3: in the boat. You have to fall off the boat,

1164
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 3: and technically they're being shot at, but the boat's pretty big,

1165
01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 3: and I don't get the sense of them like trying

1166
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 3: not to dive. Also, Mediterranean country, some of y'all are

1167
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:48,479
Speaker 3: good swimmers and know how to fitch.

1168
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 5: Like, I just feel like there's so much where we

1169
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 5: could have.

1170
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:50,640
Speaker 2: Gotten out of.

1171
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:53,600
Speaker 3: Again, all these secondary gladiator characters that are hanging out

1172
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 3: in the pits. I don't know any of them, and

1173
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:56,920
Speaker 3: that like I missed my gime in Hansu.

1174
01:04:57,440 --> 01:04:58,040
Speaker 2: Where is he?

1175
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:02,320
Speaker 4: They didn't manage to create the true bromance in the

1176
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:05,280
Speaker 4: way that was such a big haw of the first one.

1177
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 1: It's a good point there was not Hano does not have.

1178
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:11,600
Speaker 4: He doesn't have the best.

1179
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 1: He's like, I believe in you. I guess they try

1180
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:16,720
Speaker 1: to create that would Ravi the doctor.

1181
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 4: But you know what, that's that's a different relationship because

1182
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:22,240
Speaker 4: there's an imbalance that because he needs Rovi to like

1183
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 4: keep him alive. And but yeah, there's no Jim in

1184
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:29,480
Speaker 4: Russell Crowe chemistry in the same way.

1185
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 1: All of which is to say, I feel like the

1186
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 1: reason we respond so much to Denzel as Macrinus is

1187
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 1: he does have a couple of those great line moments,

1188
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:43,400
Speaker 1: like the one of the moment with Ratso we talked about.

1189
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:47,400
Speaker 1: But I also think it's just his understanding of here's

1190
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 1: how I tell you who I am. Yes, exactly one second,

1191
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:55,200
Speaker 1: two second, three second reaction shot where I'm just wearing

1192
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:59,800
Speaker 1: my clothes, living my life, watching the things that Macronus watches,

1193
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 1: And I just think he's better than that, better at

1194
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 1: that than everybody else that's in this movie. Like Connie

1195
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 1: Nielsen is just kind of the same Lucilla that she

1196
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:14,400
Speaker 1: was in the first and to be fair, they don't

1197
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 1: give her. I wish they had given her more. But

1198
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:21,720
Speaker 1: also I feel like there's something, there's something compelling about

1199
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:24,920
Speaker 1: the pairing with her and Acacious that could have been like,

1200
01:06:25,240 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 1: here's Acacius. He's the blunt instrument, he's there smashing, she's

1201
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 1: the chess player, and here's how they compliment each other,

1202
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 1: and and that feels so inert and not there. And

1203
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:44,720
Speaker 1: I just feel like part of it is that maybe

1204
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:47,840
Speaker 1: I just felt like they didn't sell that party. I

1205
01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:51,560
Speaker 1: agree enough, and and that's unfortunate.

1206
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:53,840
Speaker 4: I think that when you have something that says beloved

1207
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:57,040
Speaker 4: is Gladier. I think that in a wild where everyone

1208
01:06:57,120 --> 01:07:02,240
Speaker 4: is doing these ip face likelegacy sequels, it's very easy,

1209
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:05,120
Speaker 4: especially if you are the original director, as Ridley Scott is,

1210
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:07,040
Speaker 4: to be like, yeah, we'll just do it. You just

1211
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 4: keep telling the story like it's twenty years later, this

1212
01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:12,360
Speaker 4: is someone's son. But if you look to the spaces

1213
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:15,320
Speaker 4: where these have been done best, like the Scream series,

1214
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 4: for example, you really have to have people in that

1215
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 4: room who are making you do innovative, strange things that

1216
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:30,240
Speaker 4: basically justify why the movie is being made. And I

1217
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:34,360
Speaker 4: do think to me, Denzel's performance and that introduction of

1218
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:38,040
Speaker 4: that it's the price swash, the price of admission. But

1219
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 4: it is not. This is not going to be in

1220
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:44,760
Speaker 4: a conversation like many of these genre movies are, like

1221
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 4: the Halloween trilogy or this, you know, Scream five and six.

1222
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 4: When Scream Sits came out, people were like, is this

1223
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:54,360
Speaker 4: better than the original Scream? And I think that is

1224
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:57,640
Speaker 4: the power of doing a great legacy sequel. And nobody

1225
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 4: is gonna watch this except from two friends who did

1226
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:03,120
Speaker 4: come with me, who did enjoy it more than the

1227
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:06,600
Speaker 4: first movie. But like, I don't think the general audience

1228
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:09,720
Speaker 4: is gonna be having that conversation of is this better

1229
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 4: than Gladiator? Does this best Gladiator? I don't think so,

1230
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:16,680
Speaker 4: And I think that's the tough thing is if you're

1231
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:20,080
Speaker 4: gonna revisit something over twenty years later, can you justify

1232
01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:23,360
Speaker 4: its existence? I think this does by its entertainment value,

1233
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:27,599
Speaker 4: but not necessarily by how it will be remembered next

1234
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:28,599
Speaker 4: to Glad.

1235
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:32,519
Speaker 1: What are our final grades? Gladiator to our final grades?

1236
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:34,439
Speaker 2: B plus?

1237
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:38,960
Speaker 3: Okay, it's like it's hitting on almost every level. Like

1238
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:41,320
Speaker 3: Paul's having an ec I like, I see the future

1239
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:43,519
Speaker 3: of this kid in this role. I'm like, Okay, you've

1240
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 3: got a lot of range. There's a lot you can

1241
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:48,800
Speaker 3: do in the right role. I think costumes, if y'all

1242
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 3: want to oscar.

1243
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:56,360
Speaker 4: Yes, mini skirts on men like I love it.

1244
01:08:56,520 --> 01:08:58,760
Speaker 3: I was living first of all, and the gorgeous still

1245
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:01,040
Speaker 3: gowns and the veil the women get I was like

1246
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:01,880
Speaker 3: all the extras.

1247
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:02,960
Speaker 2: I was just looking in the background like this is

1248
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:03,760
Speaker 2: a dreamy.

1249
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:08,960
Speaker 4: Is unbelievable, Like the layers, the different levels of fabric,

1250
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 4: like really delightful. B plus. Okay, I'm gonna go. I'm

1251
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:16,600
Speaker 4: gonna go for like a three out of five. I

1252
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:20,040
Speaker 4: think this is a solid three out of five. You're

1253
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:21,920
Speaker 4: gonna enjoy it if you go and see it. I

1254
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:25,200
Speaker 4: don't think anyone's gonna be bored watching it. I think

1255
01:09:25,280 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 4: that for certain young actors, they're gonna see those creepy

1256
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:32,639
Speaker 4: twins and they're gonna be like, Yes, that's the kind

1257
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:34,280
Speaker 4: of career I want to have. I want to be

1258
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:37,920
Speaker 4: the weirdo in the movie. I want to be able

1259
01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:41,680
Speaker 4: to be Johnny Storm but also play this role. You know.

1260
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:45,080
Speaker 4: I think that's something that's very inspiring to young actors.

1261
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:49,120
Speaker 4: And I also think that Denzel is gonna win an

1262
01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 4: Oscar and he deserves it. And I think this is

1263
01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:55,799
Speaker 4: the kind of movie that pretty much anyone can enjoy,

1264
01:09:56,160 --> 01:09:58,599
Speaker 4: which I think is a is a very very very

1265
01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:03,840
Speaker 4: very wonderful thing to have in a movie theater in

1266
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 4: twenty twenty four. So yeah, I must say. I'm gonna

1267
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:08,680
Speaker 4: say three out of five. It's a solid, like, you know,

1268
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:11,080
Speaker 4: seven out of ten, Like it's better than your average,

1269
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 4: but it's not gonna blow you away. Jason, what about you?

1270
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:23,559
Speaker 1: I am going to give it since I'm gonna continue,

1271
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:25,559
Speaker 1: first of all, with the theme of each of us

1272
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:29,720
Speaker 1: giving completely metrics. I'm gonna give it. I'm gonna give

1273
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:32,200
Speaker 1: it two thumbs up. Okay, I think this is a

1274
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:36,400
Speaker 1: good a good movie, all right, Roderick. I think it's

1275
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:42,640
Speaker 1: a good movie. I think Denzel's performance is awesome. I

1276
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:47,719
Speaker 1: think Paul Mescal has the juice. He has the juice.

1277
01:10:48,120 --> 01:10:50,320
Speaker 1: I don't know that the juice was fully realized in

1278
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 1: this film, but he had. There is juice. He's there

1279
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:58,960
Speaker 1: is juice there, and I can't wait to see more

1280
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:05,559
Speaker 1: of that juice. And as an action spectacle, fantastic. Two

1281
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:09,439
Speaker 1: thumbs up for me, Glad You're too. It left me

1282
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:10,280
Speaker 1: wanting more.

1283
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:10,919
Speaker 2: Internet.

1284
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:15,480
Speaker 3: The Internet gave it a seventy five over on the ratatos.

1285
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:19,880
Speaker 3: We're pretty we're roughly in alignment. Oh yeah.

1286
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:22,719
Speaker 1: Well, on the next couple of episodes of Extra Vision,

1287
01:11:23,200 --> 01:11:26,120
Speaker 1: we're diving into the final act of arcane. Oh I

1288
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 1: can't wait. The Extras are back Wednesday with a recap

1289
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:31,280
Speaker 1: of Dune Prophecy Episode two.

1290
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:36,559
Speaker 4: Special guests from June Pod slash Escape Patch.

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Speaker 1: Our good friends from the Dune Pod will be joining us.

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Speaker 1: And then for the holiday week we're gonna be dropping

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Speaker 1: our must watch Thanksgiving movies. That's it for this episode Thanks.

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Speaker 2: For Listening, Bye, Thank You.

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Speaker 1: X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Kensumsion and Rosie

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Speaker 1: Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive

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01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:12,799
Speaker 1: producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer

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Speaker 1: is a Boo Zafar. Our producers are Carmen Lawn and

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Speaker 1: Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.

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01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:26,240
Speaker 4: Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Laude, Kenny Goodman

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Speaker 4: and Heidi Our discoord moderata