WEBVTT - INTERVIEW: David Oyelowo Talks 'Government Cheese,' British Vs. American Acting & Opportunities, Oprah + More 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.600 Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club. 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:06.600 You op, it's the world's most dangerous morning show. 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:08.680 To Breakfast Club shall mean the God Lauren le Rossa 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:10.240 and Bey and Jess are out, but we got a 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:12.840 special guest, David o' Yellowwoe was here. 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:14.200 Did I say it? 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.880 Did you did? Okay? I had to ask you beforehand. 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:18.960 You know, I appreciate that you did. 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:20.239 Yeah, I see it all the time, but I'm like, 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:21.520 I don't want to hack it when I try to 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:21.799 say it. 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:24.040 Now everyone everyone does. But yeah, you nailed that. 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:24.840 How are you, sir? 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:26.840 I'm very good, very good. It's great to be here. 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:28.200 Absolutely So. 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:31.479 You got a government cheese happening right now on Apple TV. 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:34.720 So and watching this but also some of the other 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:37.720 things that I've seen you playing. Can you just first 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:41.360 talk about your career and like the roles that you select, 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:43.599 all of the roles that I know you for are 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:46.840 very powerful, very like you. You tell stories that are 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:51.440 like so important to black people coming out the gate 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:53.920 you are. Is that something you were like, Hey, this 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:55.160 has to be it for me, this is what I 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:58.000 want to do or did you just fall into these roles? 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:00.000 Because how did it happen. 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:03.880 No, thank you for saying that. It's very intentional. You know, 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:08.280 I was incredibly influenced by film and television growing up, 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:13.560 and I was aware quite early that the images I 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:18.279 was taking in were in some ways informing me of 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:22.480 what blackness means globally speaking. And then I had this 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:27.160 incredible moment where, having been born and grown up in 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:30.320 the UK, we moved back to Nigeria for six years 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:32.240 from the age of six to thirteen, and I was 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:35.560 suddenly in a country, in an environment where I was 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:40.560 not a minority. Everything on offer in that society was 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:44.360 mine for the taking, and I realized that these images 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:48.160 that I was internalizing that often had black people on 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:52.480 the periphery or playing what I deemed to be caricatures 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:58.040 or stereotypes, were insidious, were detrimental to us as a people. 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:02.600 And so, having moved back to the UK becoming an actor, 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:05.880 I felt that if I'm not part of the solution, 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:08.839 I'm part of the problem. And so I've definitely gravitated 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:13.600 towards roles and projects that mean that I am trying 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:16.280 to change what I saw growing up. I'm trying to 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:19.720 widen the aperture and contextualize who and what we are 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:20.440 as black people. 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:22.320 That's interesting. I wonder how did you know that? 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:26.239 You know, they were characatures and stereotypes if you've never 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:28.520 if you hadn't been to America to see for yourself. 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:33.919 Yet, because I was living in communities where black people 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:36.600 were central to their own lives, and I knew that 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:38.880 what I was saying, because it wasn't just America, it 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:41.760 was in the UK as well. You know, if if 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:43.520 every time you see a black person they are on 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:47.160 the periphery of the narrative, if so often they are 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:52.120 criminalized or marginalized, that was not my experience walking through 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:56.520 the earth, and so I felt that's intentional, that's political, 0:02:56.800 --> 0:03:00.200 that's propaganda in a sense, and it's having a a 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:04.640 detrimental effect on me because there is a disconnect between 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:08.680 my lived experience and what I'm internalizing on screen. And 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:10.960 so that's how I knew it was something to become batter. 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:13.200 You know, it's so interesting, right because I have that 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:17.280 conversation often, because you know, when you watch film in 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:20.520 television in the nineties, if everything had some type of 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:22.520 socially redeeming value, right, you. 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:22.919 Know what I mean? 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:25.399 And I always wonder what the hell happened to it. 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:27.679 It felt like it was intentional. Yeah, put them to 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:30.480 stop showing us that and start giving us like the 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:31.680 reality television. 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:34.000 Yeah, well, I can tell you exactly what happened. So 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.320 often why you got you had those films that were 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:40.280 bringing context to who we are as black people is 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:43.440 because it was largely being framed and made. 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:44.000 By black people. 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:49.240 What has happened a lot is that our stories, we 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:52.440 craft them, we developed them. But at some point you've 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:56.400 got to take it to people who have green light power, 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.520 who are not from our demographic and so therefore you're 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:02.960 having to push who we are through their perception of 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:06.360 who we are, and it almost always gets eroded, watered down, 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:10.240 or marginalized. And that's what's happening. For some reason in 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:14.520 the nineties that there were there were producers, there were creatives, 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.120 there were directors who were just doing it all themselves, 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:20.000 and it was getting celebrated and it was less watered down. 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:22.560 And that's why I think we had that golden era. 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:24.800 Yeah, how you go from The Cosby Show being the 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:28.080 number one show on television, Different World being the number 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:30.359 two show on television, and then all of a sudden, 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:31.920 it's just like, Okay, that don't work no more. 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:33.200 Right right. 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:35.599 I think there's some intention behind it, you know, you 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:37.960 look at what's happening in the education system. There's a 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:42.400 reason why they're trying to reduce what we have access 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:45.920 to by way of knowledge as to who we are. 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:49.760 Because knowledge is power. So you take that power away, 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.520 you can continue to subjugate people. So you know, in 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.400 relation to what you said, I love what I get 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:57.599 to do. I love being a storyteller, but I do 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:01.520 often feel like it's also a politic act get our 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:02.120 stories told. 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:03.479 Is it ever heavy for you? 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:06.160 Because I remember watching you and the story about doctor 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:10.320 Martin Luther King and yeah, Selma, And like, I know 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:13.200 there's a lot because you also have done theater. Yeah, 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:15.000 you're very serious about what you do, so I know 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:16.719 that there's a lot of study and like deep study 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:18.960 and things of that nature. So you're probably doing that 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:20.640 for every single role. And there's a lot of like 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:22.880 just trauma that you take on differently because you get 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:26.120 so close to your characters. How does that stick with you, 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:28.960 like in that pressure from outside world too, of like 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:31.400 these are characters and people that you know have shaped 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:31.880 our world. 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:35.560 Yeah, I mean I try to stay away from the 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:42.160 trauma component. What I mostly gravitate towards aspirational representations of us. 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:45.880 So in playing Doctor King, the gift for me was 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:49.600 to see a leader, to see someone who was an icon, 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:54.960 but who was a human being as well. And I 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:59.000 am interested in stories where we get to be triumphant, 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:01.960 where we get to someone you would aspire to be, 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:06.239 no matter what demographic of person you are. More often 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:10.839 than not, when you see black people in a historical context, 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:14.200 we are browbeaten, we're broken down, and often we don't 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:16.880 we're not allowed to ascend. You won't catch me in 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:19.800 that narrative. For me personally, we have got to for 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:23.360 me be on an upward trajectory in whatever we do, 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:28.440 so it's less traumatic, it's more celebratory of who we 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.720 are without shying away from the challenges we've faced. 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:35.919 Yeah, they never want to show you the slave revolting right. 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:41.160 Right exactly exactly. And for me, you know, that's why 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:45.440 I resist slave narratives because it's very hard to find 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:48.240 the triumphant in that. The closest I came to that 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.320 was playing bass Reefs. In that this show Low Man 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.840 bass Reefs, he starts enslaved. But the great thing about 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:58.279 being a producer is that you can ensure or be 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:02.520 a voice in where the narrative goes. I would not 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.479 have taken that on if he didn't go from enslavement 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:08.720 to empowerment. Staying in enslavement is not something that I 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:11.600 want to project to our people, because there are people 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.240 who enjoy that narrative as a means of. 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:14.920 Keeping us down. 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:16.880 You said something interesting, you said it being a producer 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:18.480 you get to kind of like, you know, help to 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:20.960 figure out where the character development goes and stuff like that. 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:23.880 What part of your career did that become an option 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:25.680 for you, because not all actors have the ability to 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:28.200 be on a set and say, hey, I think that 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:30.640 we should change this or empower differently because of how 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:31.600 my people will see this. 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:33.720 When did that happen first in your career? 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:36.880 It happened by accident. It was on Selma. 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:39.800 I got the script just as an actor in two 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:44.560 thousand and seven, felt a real calling to play that role. 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:47.280 But I auditioned for it and the first director said, 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:51.480 David o'yelowo is not Doctor King. That was literally the feedback, 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:56.480 And it took another seven years before the film came 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.600 to fruition. But what I could never had anticipated was 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:01.800 that I would go from being an actor who was 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:08.720 rejected initially to three directors later because they just kept 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:12.160 on not wanting to make that movie because black doesn't travel, 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:14.920 The audience is not going to gravitate towards it. 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:18.280 Whatever the excuses are. Say that, well they did back then. 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:21.000 Oh yeah, I mean, yeah, you think this is a 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:23.080 film about doctor king Ala Perry. 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:25.200 Because they said that, They told Tyler Perry black people 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:26.800 would in lead the theater to go to the movies. 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:27.880 They don't travel beyond the. 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:31.040 Global you meant like global global box office, right. 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:32.920 Globally, but here as well. 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.280 Then the narrative was black people don't want to see 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:39.320 black struggle. White people don't want to see, you know, 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:42.840 feel white guilt and things like that. But you know, 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:46.240 it wasn't until twenty ten. Lee Daniels actually came along 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:48.040 and was the one who actually cast me in it. 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:51.400 Still couldn't get the film made. In the meantime, I 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:54.600 did a small film with Averduvener called Middle of Nowhere, 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:58.080 small two hundred thousand dollars movie, and I felt. 0:08:57.920 --> 0:08:58.679 She is a genius. 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:01.840 Lee had moved on from the project because they wouldn't 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:04.600 give him enough money to make it, and I went 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:06.360 in and fought very hard for Ava to be the 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:09.679 one to direct it. She rewrote the script. It was 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:12.679 a brilliant rewrite of the script. Still couldn't get it made. 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:18.000 I'd done the Butler with Oprah at that time. I 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:22.200 invited Oprah on to be a producer on the film. 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:25.200 Twelve Years a Slave came out and had done well, 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:30.040 which had broken down this notion of our stories not traveling. 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:32.319 And so the aggregation of all of those things is 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:34.839 what went on to mean Selma got made well. I 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:38.440 didn't realize I was doing by bringing on Ava, bringing 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:41.640 on Oprah, fighting daily to try and get the thing made, 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:44.880 was producing and so I thought, oh, okay, well I 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.200 can do that again for the things that I believe 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:49.600 in and I'm passionate about. And so you know, that 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:52.200 was ten eleven years ago now and I haven't stopped since. 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:52.920 Why didn't it. 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:54.839 I was just gonna say, that's so crazy, because twel 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:57.840 Years a Slave came out in twenty thirteen, that was 0:09:57.880 --> 0:09:59.240 even still a conversation then. 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:04.160 It was the conversation back then. I mean, I had 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:11.319 done the last King of Scotland before that, and people 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.280 may not remember. But even though we think of Forest 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:16.920 Whitaker in that film, the lead of that film was 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:20.800 actually James McAvoy. They would not have made that film 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:23.600 unless there was the Scottish white doctor as the lead 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.880 of the role. It was the sheer force of Forest 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:30.240 Whitaker's performance that meant he went on to win Best Actor. 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:33.400 I was in The Help. It was the character played 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:36.640 by Emma Stone who was the lead character of The Help, 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:39.920 not Viola Davis, not Octavius Spencer. It was the sheer 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:43.200 force of their performances that means that they are the 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:47.520 ones we think about. So when I first read Selma 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:52.120 in two thousand and seven, Lyndon Johnson was the lead character. 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.320 Doctor King was a supporting character. This is how these 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:57.440 films were getting made back there. 0:10:57.640 --> 0:10:57.760 Then. 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:01.560 They were always fronted by by white characters and you 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:03.520 were sort of on the on the periphery. But it's 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.200 this year force of who we are as performers that 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:09.240 meant that you go, oh, that's you know the same. 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:09.720 Thing with Glory. 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:11.960 You know, Matthew Broderick is the lead of that movie, 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:14.880 but we think of Denzel and Morgan Freeman, you know, 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:19.040 in that movie. So that's how these films always got 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:23.160 made until you know, twenty thirteen there was twelve Years 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:25.080 a Slave without Twelve Years a Slave. I don't think 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:27.320 Selma gets green lit in twenty fourteen. 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:28.720 Is there racism or business? 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:33.120 Is racism real? No? I mean it's that it's not business. 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:37.400 When the Butler, we couldn't get the film made because 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:39.320 no one would put money in. We had to go 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:43.560 to can to raise the funds. We sold seventeen maybe 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:47.079 eighteen foreign territories got the eighteen million dollars to make 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:51.040 the movie. The only reason the film got completed, because 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:52.880 that wasn't enough money to make it, is because a 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:55.960 hurricane hit the set. So we use the insurance money 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:57.000 to complete the movie. 0:11:57.400 --> 0:11:58.040 So we made it. 0:11:58.120 --> 0:11:59.840 I think at the end of the day was a 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:02.960 twenty five million dollars we made that movie for it 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:06.560 made one hundred and seventy two million dollars. So it's 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:11.400 not business because you know, anytime we end up making 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:15.120 these shows or these films and they succeed, they then 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:18.880 get deemed that they have overperformed, which in my even 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:22.960 with the white lead, yes, but because because well in 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:27.000 The Butler, for as witzakers the lead and its centers 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:29.520 around a black family. So that's why there was resistance 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:33.040 to making it. But there's no way you're struggling to 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:35.960 raise twenty five million dollars to make a movie if 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:38.280 you knew it was going to make one hundred and 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:41.760 seventy two million dollars. The assumption is that it won't 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.560 make that money. So that's why I say it's not 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:47.679 a business decision, it's a yea. 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:49.960 I just wonder what those assumptions are based off. Are 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:53.120 they based off box office success? I mean, you know 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:55.559 now in twenty twenty five, it would be much harder 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:57.800 to have those conversations because of the success of a 0:12:57.840 --> 0:12:59.480 lot of black laid movies. 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:04.560 Then, you know, because we've eroded the lie we have 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:07.559 too many we have draw data. And that's the thing 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:10.839 that streaming has done as well, you know, streaming. For 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.280 I saw a clear uptick in my career when streaming 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:18.680 came along. Because the reason why it's racism is it's 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.760 tied to the opinion of a very small sample size 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.800 of people who are not our demographic, who make these 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:30.120 decisions purely based on opinion, not on raw data. Now, Netflix, Amazon, Apple. 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:33.520 You know there is data we see the you know 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:36.640 law men bass Reeves. I tried to get that show 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:40.520 made for ten years. It got rejected by Hollywood three times. 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:44.199 Went on to be the most successful widely viewed show 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:48.120 on Apple TV plus globally in twenty twenty three. There's 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:52.120 no way would that was the estimation of what it 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:55.320 would be, you know, in relation to how many times 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:56.160 it was rejected. 0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:59.480 So we have consistently. 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:04.200 Eroded them, but we still are being saddled with this 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:07.280 what I deem to be a pejorative, which is it overperformed. No, 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:11.760 didn't overperform, just performed. The audience gravitated towards it because 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.480 we're human beings telling great stories in a great way 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:16.719 and the global audience are rewarding us for it. 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:18.240 I do get mad at uh. 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:20.880 I do get mad at us sometimes when we don't 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:24.880 show up for certain projects, right, because you have to, like, 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:27.080 at the end of the day, it's still I understand 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:28.960 everything you're saying, and you're right, but it is still 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:31.360 a business, yeah, at the end of the day, and 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.000 we make it easy for them to say no when 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:34.800 we don't show up. 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:39.120 Well, I guess it depends on when you deem us 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:41.840 not showing up. I've definitely had projects where I was like, oh, 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:45.600 come on, guys, show up. But you know, I think 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.240 we're fourteen percent of the population here, but black and 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:48.920 brown people. 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:53.640 You know, we're trillion dollars in spending exactly here. 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.640 Yeah, but we over index. It's like forty percent of 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:02.480 viewership on a on streaming. It's us, you know. So 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:08.120 we show up for the art form. We are the culture. 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:10.800 We are the drivers of the culture. And so to 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:14.760 constantly have the folks who are driving that culture on 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:17.000 the margins of it doesn't really make sense. 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.160 I wonder if it's the type of art too, though. 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:21.480 That is either because they're quick to make a comedy, right, 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:23.200 they'll make a right, you know what I mean, But 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:25.960 when it's actually something of some substance, Yeah, it's a 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:26.760 little harder to make. 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:29.600 Well, that's why, And to your point, that's why I 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:32.520 try to push the envelope with what I do. I'm 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:35.760 always trying to find something that is a fresh way 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:39.120 into telling a story. So, you know, Government Cheese is 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:44.240 a comedy, but it's a surrealist, parabolic, fantastical comedy that 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:48.520 has this sort of spiritual journey element, something you'd probably 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:52.600 expect more from Wes Anderson than from us. So it's 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:56.000 it's comedy, but I like to think it has more substance, 0:15:56.200 --> 0:16:00.320 you know, artistically, that there's there's there's layers to it, 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:05.840 and so it's a little bit chicken and egg as well, 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:10.720 because if we get opportunities to do one thing and 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:12.760 that one thing is doing well, well, you're going to 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:16.120 keep feeding that machine. If it's harder for us to 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:20.040 color outside the lines, and then there's so much pressure 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:24.080 on whether that thing succeeds or not. That's really difficult 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:26.360 because you know, if I'm a white person and I'm 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:28.600 taking a big swing, the chances are I'm going to 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:32.040 have about four, five, six, maybe seven at bats, you know, 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.200 with us one maybe two, and so that puts a 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:37.600 lot of pressure. So the temptation is to keep on 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:40.080 doing the safe thing. But that's the thing I've I've 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:41.760 told myself, I can't afford to be safe. 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:43.360 I want to ask real quick, why didn't they want you? 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:45.200 Why didn't the director want you to play Mlkay? 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:45.760 Well? 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:51.840 His reason, well, he was he was entitled to his opinion. 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:56.280 I mean he was a white male director. Who I 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:59.080 think was more focused on the LBJ character and he 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:02.479 had another actor in mind, Like I say, his his 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:06.240 his his choice. But to be honest, when I think 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:09.639 about it now, that's not the version of the story 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:12.399 I would have ever truly been proud of. Or you know, 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.160 that's in line with those other movies I talked about. 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:18.960 You see it with The Constant Gardener or Blood Diamond 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:21.840 as well. You know, these these films that insist on 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:25.320 a white protagonist when we are central to the story, 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:27.399 and that's what that version of someone was going to be. 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.360 So I'm actually really glad that that version isn't isn't 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:31.240 the one that got made. 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:32.720 What's success for you now? 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:35.800 Because when I think about the Semmer movie, I remember 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.480 the Ascar situation where you guys were up for these 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:40.879 wars like the movie itself within you and able to 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:43.159 do rene and you spoke out and said that you 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.200 feel like you guys were snub because you protested wearing 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:46.320 that I can't breath t shirts. 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:48.959 So it can't be a war shows for you at 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:50.120 this point, right. 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:51.840 No, no, no, no, no, I mean. 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:59.040 The the the opportunity that adversity has afforded is to 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:03.560 know that Ultimately, I don't know that those accolades are 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.440 necessarily designed with us in mind. Don't get me wrong, 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.760 happy to get them if and when they come along. 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:15.040 But the reward which I couldn't have for seeing with 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:18.280 Selma was Oscar so white. You know, the fact that 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:24.800 Selma started that movement and meant that our industry was 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:29.720 held to account from without the industry. The culture literally 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.840 said we do not agree with how you treated that 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:35.720 film or how you're treating us generally, and that pressure 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:38.880 really did change the face of Hollywood for a time anyway. 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:40.800 You know, it definitely moved the needle. 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:42.960 Because that year all twenty act nominees were white. 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:43.400 Right. 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:46.119 But so for you when you come in after that 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:47.560 year and you're you know what I mean, you do 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:49.280 your whole back. You're very vocal about how you feel 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:51.199 what you're experiencing on the business side of it as 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:53.560 a producer, someone that is directing and doing all these 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.399 things that you're doing. Are studios welcoming you with opening 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:59.040 arms like in an ideal world or do you feel 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:01.320 the resistance more after a moment like that. 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:05.280 It's complicated because you know, in that situation, it was 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:07.840 that first year and then the next year it was. 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:08.760 The same thing. 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:09.200 Right. 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.120 So you know what was helpful about that is that 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:16.320 you again, like I said earlier, data, it's I'm not 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:19.760 just playing the race card. I'm not just complaining you 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:24.080 have two years in a row where every nominee is 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:27.520 a white person and not a person of color. That 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:30.639 suggests there is something wrong with our industry when you 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:35.480 consider how much our communities support this industry, how prolific 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:38.639 we are within this industry, the work that we're producing, 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:42.400 which the audience is saying they value and are remunerating 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:45.159 at the box office, and so that becomes something you 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:48.879 can hold the industry accountable to. And that's something, like 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:52.000 you say, I've been vocal about. I've been very energized about, 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:53.960 and that has been a big driver for my work. 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:54.960 I love something you say. 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:58.240 You said, an opportunity that adversity has afforded. 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:01.160 Yeah, you expound on it for well, you know, when 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:03.520 you're in the middle of it, it's no fun, you know, 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:06.960 when your film is being attacked, when it's being accused 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:11.200