1 00:00:14,956 --> 00:00:25,916 Speaker 1: Pushkin Hey, Slight Changed listeners, It's maya. New episodes of 2 00:00:25,956 --> 00:00:28,916 Speaker 1: A Slight Change of Plans are coming your way this October. 3 00:00:29,516 --> 00:00:32,036 Speaker 1: In the meantime, I wanted to share an episode that 4 00:00:32,076 --> 00:00:35,596 Speaker 1: I returned to again and again. It's a conversation I 5 00:00:35,676 --> 00:00:38,836 Speaker 1: had with the world renowned chef Christine Haw and I 6 00:00:38,876 --> 00:00:41,556 Speaker 1: featured her story in my ted talk earlier this summer. 7 00:00:42,156 --> 00:00:45,676 Speaker 1: When Christine was twenty four, a rare neurological condition left 8 00:00:45,676 --> 00:00:48,756 Speaker 1: her legally blind, and she was concerned she might never 9 00:00:48,836 --> 00:00:52,276 Speaker 1: be able to cook again. Her story shows the power 10 00:00:52,356 --> 00:00:55,476 Speaker 1: of imaginative courage in the face of change. I hope 11 00:00:55,516 --> 00:00:56,156 Speaker 1: you enjoy it. 12 00:01:07,156 --> 00:01:10,396 Speaker 2: I remember noticing that the vision in one of my 13 00:01:10,476 --> 00:01:13,956 Speaker 2: eyes was blurry, and I assumed it was my contact lens. 14 00:01:14,236 --> 00:01:16,876 Speaker 2: I took it out and I cleaned it, popped it 15 00:01:16,916 --> 00:01:20,516 Speaker 2: back in. I still realized that my eyesight was blurry, 16 00:01:20,596 --> 00:01:24,756 Speaker 2: so I ended up going to an optometrist and he 17 00:01:24,876 --> 00:01:28,036 Speaker 2: checked out my eye, did all the usual eye exams, 18 00:01:28,556 --> 00:01:32,556 Speaker 2: concluded that it was actually something neurological. My brain was fine, 19 00:01:32,596 --> 00:01:34,356 Speaker 2: but the nerve tissue that connects the eye to the 20 00:01:34,356 --> 00:01:36,956 Speaker 2: brain transmitting the image that my eye was taking in 21 00:01:37,116 --> 00:01:38,516 Speaker 2: was on the Fritz. 22 00:01:39,596 --> 00:01:43,676 Speaker 1: That's Christine Hat describing a rare neurological condition that caused 23 00:01:43,676 --> 00:01:47,556 Speaker 1: her vision to rapidly deteriorate and left her legally blind 24 00:01:47,636 --> 00:01:50,916 Speaker 1: by age twenty four. Christine had to relearn how to 25 00:01:50,996 --> 00:01:53,636 Speaker 1: navigate so much in her life, the ins and outs 26 00:01:53,676 --> 00:01:56,916 Speaker 1: of her home, opening mail, and cooking food for herself. 27 00:01:57,596 --> 00:02:00,156 Speaker 1: Making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, which had once 28 00:02:00,196 --> 00:02:03,636 Speaker 1: been so straightforward for her, now felt like a daunting task. 29 00:02:04,276 --> 00:02:06,556 Speaker 2: I noticed that when I put the jelly on the 30 00:02:06,596 --> 00:02:09,276 Speaker 2: slice of bread, and all of the jelly got all 31 00:02:09,316 --> 00:02:12,396 Speaker 2: over the counter. It dripped down my arm. When I 32 00:02:12,476 --> 00:02:15,356 Speaker 2: tried to line the two slices of bread together like 33 00:02:15,396 --> 00:02:19,156 Speaker 2: the sandwich seemed not perfect. And I remember being very 34 00:02:19,156 --> 00:02:23,596 Speaker 2: frustrated with myself, throwing that sandwich away and just telling myself, 35 00:02:23,676 --> 00:02:25,676 Speaker 2: I don't know how I'll be independent again. I don't 36 00:02:25,676 --> 00:02:27,396 Speaker 2: think I'll be able to ever cook again. 37 00:02:28,316 --> 00:02:32,116 Speaker 1: Spoiler alert, Christine did cook again, and she's found her 38 00:02:32,156 --> 00:02:36,276 Speaker 1: independence again. Today. Christine's a world renowned chef who goes 39 00:02:36,316 --> 00:02:39,596 Speaker 1: by the nickname the Blind Cook. She won season three 40 00:02:39,676 --> 00:02:43,116 Speaker 1: of the hit reality TV show Master Chef in twenty twelve, 41 00:02:43,636 --> 00:02:46,196 Speaker 1: and she's written a New York Times best selling cookbook 42 00:02:46,276 --> 00:02:52,916 Speaker 1: and owns two restaurants in Houston, Texas. On today's episode, 43 00:02:53,076 --> 00:02:56,796 Speaker 1: a blind woman becomes a master chef and redefines what 44 00:02:56,836 --> 00:03:02,996 Speaker 1: independence means to her. Along the way, I'm Maya Shunker 45 00:03:03,116 --> 00:03:05,556 Speaker 1: and this is a slight change of plans, A show 46 00:03:05,596 --> 00:03:07,916 Speaker 1: about who we are and who we become in the 47 00:03:07,956 --> 00:03:22,756 Speaker 1: face of a big chain. Christine Ha grew up in 48 00:03:22,796 --> 00:03:26,396 Speaker 1: a Vietnamese American family, and she loved the traditional dishes 49 00:03:26,436 --> 00:03:29,676 Speaker 1: her mom would cook for her. When Christine got to college, 50 00:03:29,716 --> 00:03:32,396 Speaker 1: she was eager to recreate some of her mom's recipes 51 00:03:32,836 --> 00:03:35,716 Speaker 1: to reconnect with her Vietnamese heritage and also to feel 52 00:03:35,756 --> 00:03:38,196 Speaker 1: close to her mom, who had died of cancer when 53 00:03:38,276 --> 00:03:41,836 Speaker 1: Christine was thirteen. The more Christine cooked, the more she 54 00:03:41,916 --> 00:03:45,156 Speaker 1: realized just how much she loved it, the recipes and 55 00:03:45,236 --> 00:03:47,956 Speaker 1: the experience of sharing food with her friends and family, 56 00:03:48,436 --> 00:03:51,396 Speaker 1: so she turned it into a full on hobby. But 57 00:03:51,476 --> 00:03:54,036 Speaker 1: that all changed for Christine when she was diagnosed with 58 00:03:54,116 --> 00:03:58,636 Speaker 1: neuromielitis optica in her early twenties. She experienced blurry vision, 59 00:03:59,076 --> 00:04:02,676 Speaker 1: numbness in her arms and legs, partial paralysis, and seizures. 60 00:04:03,356 --> 00:04:06,436 Speaker 1: While medication would help with many of these symptoms, doctors 61 00:04:06,476 --> 00:04:09,436 Speaker 1: told her to expect severe and permanent vision lie loss. 62 00:04:10,556 --> 00:04:12,556 Speaker 1: I asked Christine to share what it was like to 63 00:04:12,556 --> 00:04:14,076 Speaker 1: receive this news. 64 00:04:14,276 --> 00:04:19,916 Speaker 2: I was very fearful. I felt very alone because at 65 00:04:19,916 --> 00:04:24,276 Speaker 2: the time, I was in my early twenties, and of 66 00:04:24,276 --> 00:04:27,716 Speaker 2: course most of my friends were not experiencing that. None 67 00:04:27,796 --> 00:04:31,636 Speaker 2: of them I really knew how to deal with chronic illness, 68 00:04:31,836 --> 00:04:35,516 Speaker 2: vision loss, those types of things. I think when you're 69 00:04:35,516 --> 00:04:37,596 Speaker 2: in your twenties, you assume you're invincible and you don't 70 00:04:37,596 --> 00:04:39,156 Speaker 2: think you're going to be dealing with stuff like that 71 00:04:39,276 --> 00:04:42,556 Speaker 2: until you're much much older. So I felt very alone 72 00:04:42,596 --> 00:04:45,356 Speaker 2: in what I was experiencing, and no one could really relate, 73 00:04:45,916 --> 00:04:48,596 Speaker 2: And so in my head, I was thinking, why are 74 00:04:48,676 --> 00:04:51,556 Speaker 2: my friends not caring as much as I do about 75 00:04:51,556 --> 00:04:55,116 Speaker 2: what I'm going through? Or why are they still able 76 00:04:55,196 --> 00:05:00,956 Speaker 2: to laugh and do normal everyday things and feel like 77 00:05:01,036 --> 00:05:02,716 Speaker 2: that's okay when I can't. 78 00:05:02,996 --> 00:05:06,796 Speaker 1: Can you say more? You mentioned that you felt socially isolated, 79 00:05:06,876 --> 00:05:08,556 Speaker 1: and I'm wondering if you can. I think this is 80 00:05:08,556 --> 00:05:11,356 Speaker 1: so relateable. Well, for so many people who go through 81 00:05:12,196 --> 00:05:16,436 Speaker 1: unexpected and rare challenges right that they don't feel that 82 00:05:16,556 --> 00:05:18,196 Speaker 1: other people can relate to them. 83 00:05:18,796 --> 00:05:23,556 Speaker 2: So it's definitely a grief experience. So earlier in life, 84 00:05:23,596 --> 00:05:25,076 Speaker 2: I had to agree the loss of my mom when 85 00:05:25,116 --> 00:05:28,156 Speaker 2: she passed away when I was young, but it's similar 86 00:05:28,236 --> 00:05:30,036 Speaker 2: in that you go through the same motions. I was 87 00:05:30,076 --> 00:05:35,276 Speaker 2: in denial and then I felt upset that I was 88 00:05:35,316 --> 00:05:38,316 Speaker 2: going through this and other people didn't understand. I felt alone. 89 00:05:38,756 --> 00:05:43,676 Speaker 2: Then I felt sad. I felt at times, not often, 90 00:05:43,676 --> 00:05:45,996 Speaker 2: but at times I felt sorry for myself, like wondering 91 00:05:46,076 --> 00:05:48,196 Speaker 2: why this was happening to me and not somebody else. 92 00:05:48,796 --> 00:05:53,476 Speaker 2: And then I think I had to allow myself to 93 00:05:53,476 --> 00:05:55,876 Speaker 2: sit in that space and feel that sadness and feel 94 00:05:55,876 --> 00:06:01,636 Speaker 2: that loss. I basically allowed myself to pity myself and 95 00:06:02,116 --> 00:06:05,556 Speaker 2: allowed myself to cry about it and ask why is 96 00:06:05,596 --> 00:06:08,996 Speaker 2: this happening to me and tell myself this really sucks. 97 00:06:09,636 --> 00:06:13,476 Speaker 2: And it took some time a lot of thinking and 98 00:06:13,596 --> 00:06:16,476 Speaker 2: just kind of ruminating with my own thoughts in my head. 99 00:06:17,356 --> 00:06:20,236 Speaker 2: It helped me come to the realization that no matter 100 00:06:20,276 --> 00:06:24,876 Speaker 2: what happens, the world is going to keep on moving on, 101 00:06:24,996 --> 00:06:27,996 Speaker 2: so the sun will continue to rise, continue to set 102 00:06:28,196 --> 00:06:30,916 Speaker 2: regardless of what happens. And it is a weird feeling 103 00:06:30,916 --> 00:06:32,996 Speaker 2: and I feel like I've gone through this before. With 104 00:06:33,036 --> 00:06:34,756 Speaker 2: the loss of my mom. Is like you wake up 105 00:06:34,756 --> 00:06:37,116 Speaker 2: the next day and you're like, there are still people 106 00:06:37,196 --> 00:06:40,476 Speaker 2: driving to work, there's still people going to school, there's 107 00:06:40,516 --> 00:06:43,556 Speaker 2: still you know, people are still living their lives, even 108 00:06:43,596 --> 00:06:46,276 Speaker 2: though my life feels like it just got turned upside down. 109 00:06:47,316 --> 00:06:49,796 Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned that you had lost your mother 110 00:06:49,956 --> 00:06:53,956 Speaker 1: at a young age. I imagine that this forced a 111 00:06:54,076 --> 00:06:57,636 Speaker 1: kind of independence on you, and I'm wondering whether that 112 00:06:57,716 --> 00:07:01,836 Speaker 1: independent mindset in some ways prepared you for this moment 113 00:07:02,076 --> 00:07:03,636 Speaker 1: of deteriorating vision. 114 00:07:04,676 --> 00:07:06,756 Speaker 2: It's interesting you say that, because I almost thought it 115 00:07:06,796 --> 00:07:08,956 Speaker 2: was the opposite. So, because I lost my mom when 116 00:07:08,956 --> 00:07:11,196 Speaker 2: I was young, I did feel like I had to 117 00:07:11,236 --> 00:07:14,516 Speaker 2: grow up fairly quickly and become very independent and rely 118 00:07:14,796 --> 00:07:18,476 Speaker 2: mostly on myself. And when I lost my mom, I 119 00:07:18,556 --> 00:07:22,756 Speaker 2: realized that you cannot depend on any person in your 120 00:07:22,796 --> 00:07:25,796 Speaker 2: life because in a second that person could be gone 121 00:07:25,836 --> 00:07:28,476 Speaker 2: and then your whole world gets turned upside down. So 122 00:07:29,116 --> 00:07:33,276 Speaker 2: I think for me, losing my mom forced me to 123 00:07:33,316 --> 00:07:35,676 Speaker 2: be independent and not dependent on other people. But actually, 124 00:07:35,756 --> 00:07:39,596 Speaker 2: when I started losing my vision, I had to give 125 00:07:39,676 --> 00:07:42,396 Speaker 2: up independence and I had to depend on people more 126 00:07:42,436 --> 00:07:45,716 Speaker 2: and ask for help for even the most mundane of 127 00:07:45,876 --> 00:07:52,636 Speaker 2: tasks like reading my mail or trying to identify things 128 00:07:52,676 --> 00:07:57,196 Speaker 2: in the refrigerator, or pouring myself a glass of water 129 00:07:57,276 --> 00:08:01,116 Speaker 2: to drink. And so it stripped me of my independence. 130 00:08:01,156 --> 00:08:05,196 Speaker 2: So in a way, I really wasn't prepared for that, 131 00:08:05,276 --> 00:08:07,716 Speaker 2: because losing my mom did make me independent, and then 132 00:08:07,796 --> 00:08:10,956 Speaker 2: losing my vision made made me learn to be dependent again. 133 00:08:11,356 --> 00:08:13,756 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it sounds like from what you're describing that 134 00:08:14,596 --> 00:08:17,636 Speaker 1: being independent had become a large part of your identity. 135 00:08:17,756 --> 00:08:21,036 Speaker 1: So maybe you were in part grieving a loss of 136 00:08:21,036 --> 00:08:22,876 Speaker 1: independence since you were now going to have to rely 137 00:08:22,956 --> 00:08:24,636 Speaker 1: on people in a way that you hadn't before. 138 00:08:24,676 --> 00:08:28,636 Speaker 2: Oh, definitely. I always say the hardest thing about the 139 00:08:28,756 --> 00:08:32,476 Speaker 2: vision loss was the loss of some of the independence 140 00:08:32,516 --> 00:08:33,436 Speaker 2: that I was used to. 141 00:08:37,036 --> 00:08:40,436 Speaker 1: So your vision is slowly deteriorating. Is there a moment 142 00:08:40,636 --> 00:08:44,476 Speaker 1: where maybe it hits you for the first time, this 143 00:08:44,516 --> 00:08:46,876 Speaker 1: is not getting better? You know? In the past, maybe 144 00:08:46,916 --> 00:08:49,316 Speaker 1: I've been able to fight my way through problems that 145 00:08:49,436 --> 00:08:52,076 Speaker 1: this is one I just don't have any chance against it. 146 00:08:53,036 --> 00:08:55,516 Speaker 2: I think I had several moments like that, one of 147 00:08:56,036 --> 00:08:58,636 Speaker 2: which I that really stands out of my head was 148 00:08:58,676 --> 00:09:02,556 Speaker 2: a moment when I had lost some more vision. And 149 00:09:02,636 --> 00:09:05,156 Speaker 2: like I'd mentioned, it was gradual over the years, so 150 00:09:05,276 --> 00:09:08,396 Speaker 2: anytime it would decrease a little bit to a new baseline, 151 00:09:08,396 --> 00:09:10,716 Speaker 2: I would start getting used to that base one be like, Okay, 152 00:09:10,716 --> 00:09:12,916 Speaker 2: well this is I can live with this. I'm getting 153 00:09:12,996 --> 00:09:15,876 Speaker 2: used to it. I can figure out how to still 154 00:09:15,916 --> 00:09:19,076 Speaker 2: walk around without a white cane, or I can enlarge 155 00:09:19,116 --> 00:09:21,916 Speaker 2: the font on my computer to thirty five point font 156 00:09:21,956 --> 00:09:24,476 Speaker 2: and still read my screen or whatnot. And then I 157 00:09:24,516 --> 00:09:27,076 Speaker 2: would as soon as I would get used to that 158 00:09:27,356 --> 00:09:30,756 Speaker 2: new baseline of my vision, it would decrease more and 159 00:09:30,796 --> 00:09:32,596 Speaker 2: I would lose more vision, and I have to feel 160 00:09:32,636 --> 00:09:35,876 Speaker 2: like I would start over. So I remember there was 161 00:09:35,916 --> 00:09:39,876 Speaker 2: one particular time when my vision pretty much decreased to 162 00:09:39,916 --> 00:09:42,676 Speaker 2: the level that it is now, which I describe as 163 00:09:43,476 --> 00:09:46,836 Speaker 2: very very blurry and very washed out colors, and I 164 00:09:46,956 --> 00:09:49,556 Speaker 2: just see some foggy shapes, as though if you were 165 00:09:49,556 --> 00:09:51,716 Speaker 2: to step out of a very very hot shower and 166 00:09:51,716 --> 00:09:55,556 Speaker 2: your mirrors all fogged up and with the steam. That's 167 00:09:55,676 --> 00:09:59,356 Speaker 2: kind of how I see. So it's very very very blurry, 168 00:09:59,476 --> 00:10:02,956 Speaker 2: don't see much color, maybe some slight shapes, but everything's 169 00:10:02,996 --> 00:10:06,916 Speaker 2: foggy and hazy. When it decreased to this level. I 170 00:10:06,956 --> 00:10:09,716 Speaker 2: remember I was living alone at the time, trying to 171 00:10:10,076 --> 00:10:12,436 Speaker 2: make a sandwich for myself, and I thought the easiest 172 00:10:12,436 --> 00:10:14,876 Speaker 2: thing was going to be peanut butter jelly. So I 173 00:10:14,996 --> 00:10:16,956 Speaker 2: was like, Okay, I could find the bread. It's already 174 00:10:16,996 --> 00:10:19,116 Speaker 2: sliced up. I just pulled the slices out, and I 175 00:10:19,116 --> 00:10:21,756 Speaker 2: would just find the peanut butter by smell, find the 176 00:10:21,836 --> 00:10:24,036 Speaker 2: jelly by smell, and then use a butter knife to 177 00:10:24,076 --> 00:10:26,796 Speaker 2: spread the peanut butter and jelly on the two slices 178 00:10:26,836 --> 00:10:30,196 Speaker 2: of bread. But I think I was in a very 179 00:10:30,236 --> 00:10:34,836 Speaker 2: precarious mental state at that time already. And it's not 180 00:10:34,916 --> 00:10:37,156 Speaker 2: that the sandwich has to be perfect to be edible 181 00:10:37,156 --> 00:10:39,476 Speaker 2: and good, but I noticed that when I put the 182 00:10:39,556 --> 00:10:41,556 Speaker 2: jelly on the slice of bread and all of the 183 00:10:41,636 --> 00:10:44,996 Speaker 2: jelly got all over the counter, it dripped down my 184 00:10:45,236 --> 00:10:47,836 Speaker 2: arm when I tried to line the two slices of 185 00:10:47,836 --> 00:10:52,596 Speaker 2: bread together, like, the sandwich seemed not perfect. And growing 186 00:10:52,676 --> 00:10:54,956 Speaker 2: up too, I'm very much a perfectionist and I still 187 00:10:55,116 --> 00:10:58,156 Speaker 2: sort of am, so I think just not being able 188 00:10:58,196 --> 00:11:03,356 Speaker 2: to make a perfect PEBJ sandwich at that time was 189 00:11:03,436 --> 00:11:05,796 Speaker 2: kind of like the straw that broke the Camel's back, 190 00:11:05,996 --> 00:11:09,276 Speaker 2: and I remember being very frustrated with myself, throwing that 191 00:11:09,316 --> 00:11:12,956 Speaker 2: sandwich away and just telling myself, I don't think I'll 192 00:11:12,956 --> 00:11:14,956 Speaker 2: be able to ever cook again. I don't know how 193 00:11:14,956 --> 00:11:17,836 Speaker 2: I'll be independent again. You know, that's a moment that 194 00:11:17,876 --> 00:11:21,476 Speaker 2: stands out in my head, but I've had many of 195 00:11:21,796 --> 00:11:23,076 Speaker 2: similar moments like that. 196 00:11:24,716 --> 00:11:29,076 Speaker 1: Yeah, it strikes me that in the face of protracted 197 00:11:29,596 --> 00:11:33,036 Speaker 1: vision deterioration. You know, the obvious upside is that it's 198 00:11:33,036 --> 00:11:36,476 Speaker 1: giving you time to adapt to your new world and 199 00:11:37,316 --> 00:11:40,196 Speaker 1: find new habits and restructure your life. But on the 200 00:11:40,196 --> 00:11:43,876 Speaker 1: other hand, there is this tortuous aspect that you described, 201 00:11:43,916 --> 00:11:47,036 Speaker 1: which is, you know, you're clearly a highly motivated and 202 00:11:47,036 --> 00:11:51,276 Speaker 1: adaptive person, adaptable person, and at every step you're saying, Okay, 203 00:11:51,316 --> 00:11:53,236 Speaker 1: I got this, I got this, folks, I can I 204 00:11:53,236 --> 00:11:56,076 Speaker 1: can work at this level, and then you're taunted by 205 00:11:56,076 --> 00:11:58,836 Speaker 1: the fact that it just keeps getting worse. And so I imagine, yeah, 206 00:11:58,876 --> 00:12:00,196 Speaker 1: you just kind of want to rip off the band 207 00:12:00,236 --> 00:12:01,796 Speaker 1: aid at a certain point and know what the end 208 00:12:01,836 --> 00:12:02,436 Speaker 1: outcome is. 209 00:12:03,596 --> 00:12:06,676 Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm always the kind of person too that would 210 00:12:06,756 --> 00:12:08,836 Speaker 2: rather know the bad news than not know. So it's 211 00:12:08,876 --> 00:12:11,076 Speaker 2: all so much more anxiety of not knowing, like, oh, 212 00:12:11,156 --> 00:12:14,076 Speaker 2: will my vision get worse or will I be able 213 00:12:14,116 --> 00:12:16,116 Speaker 2: to do this? You know exactly? 214 00:12:16,516 --> 00:12:19,316 Speaker 1: So where do you go from the peanut butter and 215 00:12:19,396 --> 00:12:20,436 Speaker 1: jelly sandwich moment? 216 00:12:21,836 --> 00:12:26,636 Speaker 2: I allowed myself for however long I needed to feel 217 00:12:26,636 --> 00:12:28,756 Speaker 2: bad about not being able to make a peanut butter 218 00:12:28,796 --> 00:12:32,676 Speaker 2: jelly sandwich. And then slowly I think I just thought 219 00:12:32,716 --> 00:12:36,996 Speaker 2: more about, Okay, well, I didn't get it right that time, 220 00:12:37,116 --> 00:12:39,716 Speaker 2: but when I'm in a better headspace, so let me 221 00:12:39,756 --> 00:12:43,356 Speaker 2: try again. And then I would notice I could incrementally 222 00:12:44,036 --> 00:12:47,356 Speaker 2: improve at little things in the kitchen. I noticed that 223 00:12:47,796 --> 00:12:49,796 Speaker 2: as days went by and weeks went by, and I 224 00:12:49,796 --> 00:12:52,356 Speaker 2: would attempt a little bit more things in the kitchen 225 00:12:52,396 --> 00:12:55,356 Speaker 2: to try to just feed myself. I would be like, oh, 226 00:12:55,716 --> 00:12:58,196 Speaker 2: today I was able to cut an orange and eat 227 00:12:58,196 --> 00:12:59,996 Speaker 2: an orange. And then maybe the next day I was 228 00:13:00,036 --> 00:13:03,596 Speaker 2: able to scramble an egg. Maybe some of it was burnt, 229 00:13:03,636 --> 00:13:05,836 Speaker 2: but I was still able to do an egg. And 230 00:13:05,836 --> 00:13:07,756 Speaker 2: then then a week after that, I was able to 231 00:13:08,116 --> 00:13:10,996 Speaker 2: scramble an egg that was burnt. And then looking back, 232 00:13:11,036 --> 00:13:14,396 Speaker 2: I would notice my progress and the steps forward that 233 00:13:14,436 --> 00:13:17,756 Speaker 2: I was taking. So I had to tell myself, like, Okay, well, 234 00:13:17,876 --> 00:13:20,276 Speaker 2: I couldn't do this a week ago, or a month ago, 235 00:13:20,516 --> 00:13:22,956 Speaker 2: or six months ago. And then when you realize that 236 00:13:22,996 --> 00:13:25,996 Speaker 2: you're making progress, I think it helps build confidence, and 237 00:13:26,036 --> 00:13:28,556 Speaker 2: then that confidence gives you the courage to keep trying 238 00:13:29,076 --> 00:13:32,196 Speaker 2: bigger and better things and putting yourself to the challenge 239 00:13:32,196 --> 00:13:34,916 Speaker 2: and realizing that even if you fail the first time 240 00:13:34,996 --> 00:13:37,116 Speaker 2: or make a mistake, you learn from that and you 241 00:13:37,156 --> 00:13:39,076 Speaker 2: reassess and you try again. 242 00:13:39,876 --> 00:13:43,596 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you mentioned the victory you felt at 243 00:13:43,636 --> 00:13:45,876 Speaker 1: being able to peel an orange, and I'm wondering if 244 00:13:45,916 --> 00:13:48,756 Speaker 1: you can tell me more about how it is you 245 00:13:48,796 --> 00:13:51,396 Speaker 1: had to change your relationship with cooking. You know, at 246 00:13:51,396 --> 00:13:53,636 Speaker 1: the time it was simply a hobby of yours, but 247 00:13:54,276 --> 00:13:58,436 Speaker 1: what was involved in relearning how to cook and navigate 248 00:13:58,476 --> 00:13:59,316 Speaker 1: the kitchen safely. 249 00:14:00,796 --> 00:14:03,716 Speaker 2: It remained a hobby of mine for quite a long time, 250 00:14:03,996 --> 00:14:06,476 Speaker 2: and I was losing my vision in this at the 251 00:14:06,516 --> 00:14:11,196 Speaker 2: same time when I was voraciously teaching myself how to 252 00:14:11,236 --> 00:14:14,196 Speaker 2: cook and reading all sorts of cookbooks and experimenting in 253 00:14:14,236 --> 00:14:17,556 Speaker 2: the kitchen. So each time I would lose a little 254 00:14:17,596 --> 00:14:21,036 Speaker 2: bit more vision and it would decrease to some new level. 255 00:14:21,116 --> 00:14:24,396 Speaker 2: I would have to teach myself again how to accomplish 256 00:14:24,476 --> 00:14:26,796 Speaker 2: the same things in the kitchen, And like I said, 257 00:14:26,836 --> 00:14:29,276 Speaker 2: it was kind of a matter of taking these small 258 00:14:29,316 --> 00:14:32,636 Speaker 2: steps and celebrating these small victories. But eventually I would 259 00:14:32,676 --> 00:14:36,156 Speaker 2: just focus on being able to do things with my 260 00:14:36,236 --> 00:14:40,276 Speaker 2: remaining four senses, and that actually taught me that cooking 261 00:14:40,356 --> 00:14:45,476 Speaker 2: is much more of a multisensory ordeal than we often expect. Like, 262 00:14:45,876 --> 00:14:48,476 Speaker 2: you can definitely get by in the kitchen with your 263 00:14:48,516 --> 00:14:50,996 Speaker 2: sense of touch and your sense of smell and your 264 00:14:51,036 --> 00:14:53,196 Speaker 2: sense of taste. Those things I would say are the 265 00:14:53,236 --> 00:14:57,396 Speaker 2: most important in the kitchen. And yes, it would help 266 00:14:57,596 --> 00:15:00,396 Speaker 2: visually probably to tell if something is cooked in a pan, 267 00:15:00,556 --> 00:15:03,756 Speaker 2: But over the years, with a lot of experience, I'm 268 00:15:03,796 --> 00:15:06,596 Speaker 2: able to tell if something is cooked by the texture 269 00:15:06,636 --> 00:15:09,036 Speaker 2: and how it feels at the end of my cooking utensil, 270 00:15:09,356 --> 00:15:12,116 Speaker 2: or by the smell of garlic. You can tell if 271 00:15:12,156 --> 00:15:15,076 Speaker 2: it's raw, or if it's fragrant, or if it's burnt. 272 00:15:15,596 --> 00:15:19,556 Speaker 2: So just learning over time to rely on my remaining 273 00:15:19,556 --> 00:15:21,996 Speaker 2: four senses much more so than my sense of vision, 274 00:15:22,556 --> 00:15:25,356 Speaker 2: was really how I got back into the kitchen and 275 00:15:25,396 --> 00:15:27,116 Speaker 2: taught myself how to cook a lot of the dishes 276 00:15:27,156 --> 00:15:30,676 Speaker 2: that I'd cooked before. And I actually think with my 277 00:15:30,796 --> 00:15:35,596 Speaker 2: sense of sight out of the picture, I became much 278 00:15:35,636 --> 00:15:38,836 Speaker 2: more of a nuanced cook in the kitchen, and I 279 00:15:38,876 --> 00:15:42,356 Speaker 2: would pay much more attention to the small changes that 280 00:15:42,436 --> 00:15:44,676 Speaker 2: a seasoning would make in a dish, and I'd pay 281 00:15:44,756 --> 00:15:47,556 Speaker 2: much more attention to how things taste in your mouth 282 00:15:47,596 --> 00:15:49,636 Speaker 2: when it comes to temperature and texture. And so I 283 00:15:49,676 --> 00:15:53,316 Speaker 2: think that allowed me to focus more on those aspects 284 00:15:53,356 --> 00:15:56,116 Speaker 2: of food, which helped me in some way become a 285 00:15:56,116 --> 00:15:56,716 Speaker 2: better cook. 286 00:15:57,596 --> 00:16:00,196 Speaker 1: So you end up writing a blog about your experiences 287 00:16:00,196 --> 00:16:03,156 Speaker 1: in the kitchen at a website you create, which is 288 00:16:03,196 --> 00:16:08,436 Speaker 1: called the blindcook dot com, and somewhat unexpectedly, the casting 289 00:16:08,516 --> 00:16:12,676 Speaker 1: crew reality TV show Master Chef catches wind of your 290 00:16:12,716 --> 00:16:16,076 Speaker 1: blog and ends up reaching out to you. Yeah. 291 00:16:16,116 --> 00:16:18,116 Speaker 2: It was a strange one at first because I didn't 292 00:16:18,156 --> 00:16:23,876 Speaker 2: believe it. And I remember I received an email through 293 00:16:23,956 --> 00:16:27,556 Speaker 2: the contact form and they said, Hi, I'm the casting 294 00:16:27,596 --> 00:16:30,516 Speaker 2: producer for a show called Master Chef. It's with Gordon Ramsey, 295 00:16:30,556 --> 00:16:34,156 Speaker 2: it's on Fox. We wanted to see if you would 296 00:16:34,196 --> 00:16:38,156 Speaker 2: like to audition. And I asked my husband and I 297 00:16:38,196 --> 00:16:40,756 Speaker 2: was like, Hey, isn't this name familiar Gordon Ramsey, and 298 00:16:40,796 --> 00:16:43,476 Speaker 2: John's like yeah, that's the chef that's from the UK 299 00:16:43,596 --> 00:16:45,516 Speaker 2: that's on like Hell's Kitchen and all stuff, and he's 300 00:16:45,516 --> 00:16:48,436 Speaker 2: always known for cursing at people blah blah blah. And 301 00:16:48,476 --> 00:16:50,796 Speaker 2: then he was like, Oh, if that's legitimate, you should 302 00:16:50,836 --> 00:16:54,476 Speaker 2: totally go an audition for the show. But we were like, 303 00:16:54,596 --> 00:16:57,596 Speaker 2: is this for real? So at the time, too, I 304 00:16:58,036 --> 00:17:02,836 Speaker 2: was very anonymous, like I'm naturally an introvert and a 305 00:17:03,236 --> 00:17:07,716 Speaker 2: you know, pretty private person. So my blog had no 306 00:17:07,876 --> 00:17:10,556 Speaker 2: pictures of me, didn't have my real name on there. 307 00:17:10,796 --> 00:17:13,316 Speaker 2: I kept it very anonymous so that if you went 308 00:17:13,356 --> 00:17:15,036 Speaker 2: to that blog, you would never know who it was. 309 00:17:15,796 --> 00:17:17,956 Speaker 2: And they reach out just wondering if I was a 310 00:17:17,996 --> 00:17:20,196 Speaker 2: real person, because you know, there were no photos of me. 311 00:17:20,276 --> 00:17:23,076 Speaker 2: There was nothing about my bio really on there except 312 00:17:23,116 --> 00:17:25,476 Speaker 2: I just wrote recipes and what it was like to 313 00:17:25,516 --> 00:17:30,596 Speaker 2: be as someone who's visually impaired. And so I said, uh, okay, 314 00:17:30,796 --> 00:17:33,516 Speaker 2: I will come audition, and you know, I went to 315 00:17:33,556 --> 00:17:37,356 Speaker 2: the open casting call and auditions in Austin and when 316 00:17:37,436 --> 00:17:39,876 Speaker 2: the producers were traveling around the country trying to look 317 00:17:39,916 --> 00:17:43,596 Speaker 2: for of season three cast, and then the rest was 318 00:17:43,676 --> 00:17:44,356 Speaker 2: kind of history. 319 00:17:44,756 --> 00:17:46,636 Speaker 1: Well, it's not going to be history right now. I 320 00:17:46,676 --> 00:17:50,276 Speaker 1: want to hear all. I want to hear all about 321 00:17:50,316 --> 00:17:54,636 Speaker 1: your experience on Master Chef, So you know, I personally 322 00:17:54,636 --> 00:17:57,516 Speaker 1: remember seeing you walking out on a set to make 323 00:17:57,636 --> 00:18:00,836 Speaker 1: your first dish as a competitor in a kitchen that 324 00:18:00,996 --> 00:18:04,276 Speaker 1: was largely unfamiliar to you and that you're not able 325 00:18:04,316 --> 00:18:07,516 Speaker 1: to see. And on top of all that, there's the 326 00:18:07,596 --> 00:18:10,756 Speaker 1: added pressure of making a dish that's going to be 327 00:18:10,836 --> 00:18:14,676 Speaker 1: judged by three of the most famous chefs in the world. 328 00:18:15,476 --> 00:18:20,036 Speaker 1: What was that like, Christine, Like, I can't imagine that 329 00:18:20,276 --> 00:18:21,156 Speaker 1: mounting pressure. 330 00:18:22,116 --> 00:18:25,196 Speaker 2: There's definitely a lot of pressure. It was nerve wracking. 331 00:18:25,356 --> 00:18:28,676 Speaker 2: I mean I was in a space that, you know, 332 00:18:28,716 --> 00:18:30,716 Speaker 2: in a big warehouse, with a lot of people I'd 333 00:18:30,716 --> 00:18:33,356 Speaker 2: never met before, all of the other contestants. I've never 334 00:18:33,396 --> 00:18:37,916 Speaker 2: been familiar with what the entertainment world or television world 335 00:18:38,116 --> 00:18:40,716 Speaker 2: was like, so I had no idea what to expect 336 00:18:40,756 --> 00:18:44,156 Speaker 2: with all these lights, these directors, all these like cameras 337 00:18:44,236 --> 00:18:46,396 Speaker 2: rolling on Dolly's and of course a lot of it 338 00:18:46,436 --> 00:18:49,276 Speaker 2: I couldn't even see, so all I could hear was 339 00:18:49,316 --> 00:18:51,236 Speaker 2: just a lot of noise around me. So it was 340 00:18:51,316 --> 00:18:54,716 Speaker 2: not only stressful knowing that I would have to cook 341 00:18:54,756 --> 00:18:58,276 Speaker 2: a dish for these judges to taste, but stressful because 342 00:18:58,356 --> 00:19:01,596 Speaker 2: I'm in a foreign environment as someone who's visual impaired 343 00:19:01,636 --> 00:19:04,836 Speaker 2: and has no idea what's going on around me except 344 00:19:04,876 --> 00:19:07,716 Speaker 2: with the context clues of what I hear, what I smell. 345 00:19:08,396 --> 00:19:11,716 Speaker 1: Wow, well, I mean, things obviously went very well for 346 00:19:11,836 --> 00:19:16,116 Speaker 1: you after that first dish. You kept advancing through the rounds, 347 00:19:16,676 --> 00:19:19,556 Speaker 1: and such a poignant moment is when Gordon Ramsay said 348 00:19:19,596 --> 00:19:23,516 Speaker 1: your apple pie looked stunning and of course tasted amazing 349 00:19:23,556 --> 00:19:24,156 Speaker 1: and delicious. 350 00:19:24,756 --> 00:19:28,476 Speaker 2: He was just really blown at the fact that I 351 00:19:28,596 --> 00:19:31,916 Speaker 2: totally thought I fed him a pile of rubbish, which 352 00:19:31,956 --> 00:19:34,436 Speaker 2: is now the running joke. So at my restaurants, my 353 00:19:34,556 --> 00:19:36,556 Speaker 2: apple pie that served there as a dessert is called 354 00:19:36,596 --> 00:19:39,396 Speaker 2: the rubbish apple pie because when he asked me, I'm like, 355 00:19:39,796 --> 00:19:41,516 Speaker 2: I think it looks like a pile of rubbish. And 356 00:19:41,556 --> 00:19:43,356 Speaker 2: I only use that word too, because in my head, 357 00:19:43,396 --> 00:19:45,476 Speaker 2: I was like so nervous and I really wanted to 358 00:19:45,476 --> 00:19:47,276 Speaker 2: say it looks like a pile of shit, but then 359 00:19:47,316 --> 00:19:49,076 Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I'm on television. I can't use 360 00:19:49,116 --> 00:19:51,236 Speaker 2: that word. So I'm like, naturally, I'm like, oh, he 361 00:19:51,316 --> 00:19:53,516 Speaker 2: must use the word rubbish because he's from there. He's 362 00:19:53,516 --> 00:19:55,596 Speaker 2: from the UK. He's pretty I was like, oh, it 363 00:19:55,676 --> 00:19:58,636 Speaker 2: must look like a pile of rubbish, and you know 364 00:19:58,716 --> 00:20:02,236 Speaker 2: he he told me. He was like, no, it definitely doesn't. 365 00:20:02,316 --> 00:20:05,236 Speaker 2: It looks great. The crust is golden and flaky. And 366 00:20:05,876 --> 00:20:08,396 Speaker 2: then he scraped a knife or a fork on top 367 00:20:08,396 --> 00:20:11,356 Speaker 2: of it to let me here that it actually baked 368 00:20:11,356 --> 00:20:15,556 Speaker 2: to the correct flakiness level. And then he cut out 369 00:20:15,556 --> 00:20:17,676 Speaker 2: a slice of pie that I guess held together and 370 00:20:18,076 --> 00:20:19,556 Speaker 2: then taste it and said it tasted good. 371 00:20:22,116 --> 00:20:23,996 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment with a slight change 372 00:20:23,996 --> 00:20:26,556 Speaker 1: of plans when we'll hear more from Christine about her 373 00:20:26,596 --> 00:20:35,636 Speaker 1: experience on Master Chef. There was this one moment when 374 00:20:35,636 --> 00:20:38,796 Speaker 1: you were on Master Chef that really affected me, where 375 00:20:39,516 --> 00:20:42,116 Speaker 1: you said you felt your vision impairment was affecting people's 376 00:20:42,156 --> 00:20:46,156 Speaker 1: ability to focus on what mattered most, which was your 377 00:20:46,156 --> 00:20:47,236 Speaker 1: cooking skills. 378 00:20:48,036 --> 00:20:51,316 Speaker 2: I didn't want people to think that what I was 379 00:20:51,396 --> 00:20:54,876 Speaker 2: doing was so great or even better because it was 380 00:20:54,996 --> 00:20:57,436 Speaker 2: someone that's visual impaired. I wanted to compete on the 381 00:20:57,476 --> 00:21:00,116 Speaker 2: same level and be judged as the same level as 382 00:21:00,116 --> 00:21:04,316 Speaker 2: everybody else. While yes, maybe it's going to be harder 383 00:21:04,356 --> 00:21:06,876 Speaker 2: for me to do things because I'm visually impaired. But 384 00:21:06,916 --> 00:21:11,516 Speaker 2: I didn't want that to be my quote unquote handicap. 385 00:21:11,876 --> 00:21:14,276 Speaker 2: I wanted people to focus more and judge me and 386 00:21:14,356 --> 00:21:19,276 Speaker 2: give me true constructive criticism based on my merits in 387 00:21:19,316 --> 00:21:21,276 Speaker 2: the food I was putting up to be judged. 388 00:21:22,596 --> 00:21:25,836 Speaker 1: Yeah, And did you feel that by the end of 389 00:21:25,876 --> 00:21:27,436 Speaker 1: the process that was happening for you? 390 00:21:28,516 --> 00:21:33,076 Speaker 2: I do. I mean it wasn't easy, so coming into it, 391 00:21:33,116 --> 00:21:36,716 Speaker 2: they had to adapt my particular cooking stations so that 392 00:21:36,756 --> 00:21:39,076 Speaker 2: I could use it as a cook who's visually impaired. 393 00:21:39,716 --> 00:21:43,956 Speaker 2: So I needed some assistance in certain ways or adaptations 394 00:21:44,196 --> 00:21:47,676 Speaker 2: that made sense. But it's not like I would ask 395 00:21:47,756 --> 00:21:51,476 Speaker 2: for more time for my challenge or expect like a 396 00:21:51,476 --> 00:21:55,316 Speaker 2: different ingredient, or expect special rules to be made for me. 397 00:21:55,556 --> 00:21:58,756 Speaker 2: So at the beginning, yes, I did feel that insecurity 398 00:21:58,756 --> 00:22:02,356 Speaker 2: that I wasn't sure how I would be treated because 399 00:22:02,396 --> 00:22:05,436 Speaker 2: I'm sure a lot of people had never expected someone 400 00:22:05,476 --> 00:22:07,036 Speaker 2: who is visually impaired to be able to cook. And 401 00:22:07,076 --> 00:22:10,396 Speaker 2: I remember some people asking me like, well, how are 402 00:22:10,396 --> 00:22:13,356 Speaker 2: you going to cook? Like are you going to stand 403 00:22:13,396 --> 00:22:16,676 Speaker 2: on the side and call out your recipe and have 404 00:22:17,156 --> 00:22:19,596 Speaker 2: your husband? My husband John was there at the time 405 00:22:19,676 --> 00:22:22,316 Speaker 2: to assist me as my sided guide. They were wondering 406 00:22:22,356 --> 00:22:23,956 Speaker 2: if he would do all the cutting and I would 407 00:22:23,996 --> 00:22:26,236 Speaker 2: just be on the sidelines, like telling him what to do. 408 00:22:26,276 --> 00:22:28,396 Speaker 2: And I'm like, in my head, I was dumbfound and 409 00:22:28,436 --> 00:22:30,756 Speaker 2: I'm like, no, I'm going to use the knife of course, 410 00:22:30,916 --> 00:22:34,876 Speaker 2: like that would be weird. So there was those kinds 411 00:22:34,876 --> 00:22:38,276 Speaker 2: of questions from people who I think were completely surprised 412 00:22:38,316 --> 00:22:41,356 Speaker 2: to see someone who's visual impaired, or they thought that 413 00:22:41,396 --> 00:22:43,276 Speaker 2: I was like a gimmick that was brought on by 414 00:22:43,316 --> 00:22:46,996 Speaker 2: the producers for just for the ratings. And I was 415 00:22:47,076 --> 00:22:49,476 Speaker 2: also insecure because still in the back of my head, 416 00:22:49,476 --> 00:22:52,596 Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I do have a disability. Will that 417 00:22:52,676 --> 00:22:55,596 Speaker 2: will make it harder for me to compete with everyone 418 00:22:55,636 --> 00:22:59,876 Speaker 2: else who's sited. But I think as the competition went on, 419 00:23:01,116 --> 00:23:05,116 Speaker 2: I started understanding what my strengths were, and I started 420 00:23:05,156 --> 00:23:07,756 Speaker 2: playing to those strengths, and I think that's what helped 421 00:23:07,796 --> 00:23:09,356 Speaker 2: me go all the way to that end. 422 00:23:10,516 --> 00:23:11,956 Speaker 1: And what did you feel those strengths were. 423 00:23:13,036 --> 00:23:16,996 Speaker 2: Well, the strength was the fact that I couldn't see. 424 00:23:17,356 --> 00:23:20,196 Speaker 2: I paid much less attention to or and was not 425 00:23:20,316 --> 00:23:24,116 Speaker 2: distracted by what the other contestants were doing. And I 426 00:23:24,196 --> 00:23:27,676 Speaker 2: feel like what happened to some of us at sometimes 427 00:23:27,756 --> 00:23:29,476 Speaker 2: and even I've done it in some of the early 428 00:23:29,676 --> 00:23:33,996 Speaker 2: challenges in my season was I would hear like, oh, 429 00:23:34,116 --> 00:23:36,436 Speaker 2: someone else, so and so next to me is using 430 00:23:36,516 --> 00:23:40,156 Speaker 2: really fancy ingredients or using a very fancy cooking technique, 431 00:23:40,196 --> 00:23:42,756 Speaker 2: and then I would you know, then you would think 432 00:23:42,796 --> 00:23:45,556 Speaker 2: to yourself, oh, maybe what I'm doing is not good enough, 433 00:23:45,596 --> 00:23:48,956 Speaker 2: it's not fancy enough, it's too pedestrian. And then we 434 00:23:48,996 --> 00:23:52,556 Speaker 2: would change our dish that we planned to make halfway through, 435 00:23:52,596 --> 00:23:54,396 Speaker 2: and then by then you only have thirty minutes left 436 00:23:54,396 --> 00:23:57,156 Speaker 2: to achieve your new dish, and then at the end 437 00:23:57,236 --> 00:23:59,516 Speaker 2: you can't finish it, and then you serve up only 438 00:23:59,596 --> 00:24:02,796 Speaker 2: part of a plate. And for me, I think what 439 00:24:03,156 --> 00:24:06,916 Speaker 2: I realized was that these judges have tasted some of 440 00:24:06,956 --> 00:24:08,556 Speaker 2: the best foods in the world, and there's nothing I'm 441 00:24:08,596 --> 00:24:11,236 Speaker 2: going to do going to be like that's probably going 442 00:24:11,316 --> 00:24:13,636 Speaker 2: to blow their minds. So what I'm going to do 443 00:24:13,836 --> 00:24:15,676 Speaker 2: is I'm just going to cook something that I feel 444 00:24:15,676 --> 00:24:17,996 Speaker 2: like eating that I would be happy to eat myself 445 00:24:18,076 --> 00:24:20,996 Speaker 2: or serve my friends and my family, and I wouldn't 446 00:24:20,996 --> 00:24:23,236 Speaker 2: worry about what other people are cooking. I'm just going 447 00:24:23,316 --> 00:24:26,276 Speaker 2: to compete against myself, and as long as I went 448 00:24:26,316 --> 00:24:28,236 Speaker 2: into that kitchen and I was a better cook that 449 00:24:28,316 --> 00:24:31,396 Speaker 2: day than I was the day before, then that's really 450 00:24:31,436 --> 00:24:33,756 Speaker 2: all I could ask of myself. And so I started 451 00:24:34,316 --> 00:24:37,156 Speaker 2: concentrating and focusing only on what I was doing and 452 00:24:37,196 --> 00:24:40,276 Speaker 2: not paying attention to what the other contestants were doing. 453 00:24:40,276 --> 00:24:42,596 Speaker 2: And I think that allowed me to stay more focused 454 00:24:43,516 --> 00:24:45,956 Speaker 2: and know what I was going to cook and follow 455 00:24:46,036 --> 00:24:48,756 Speaker 2: that course and that plan of action, and then I 456 00:24:48,796 --> 00:24:51,276 Speaker 2: was able to finish my dishes on time and follow through. 457 00:24:52,276 --> 00:24:56,796 Speaker 1: Okay, So I would love to revisit an incredibly joyful moment, 458 00:24:57,276 --> 00:24:59,956 Speaker 1: obviously for you, but for so many people around the 459 00:24:59,956 --> 00:25:02,996 Speaker 1: world who are celebrating along with you. What was it 460 00:25:03,156 --> 00:25:04,836 Speaker 1: like to win Master Chef? 461 00:25:05,356 --> 00:25:24,916 Speaker 2: The winner of Master Chef, congratulations Christine. Yeah, my first 462 00:25:24,996 --> 00:25:28,156 Speaker 2: thought was, thank God, this thing is over. It actually 463 00:25:28,276 --> 00:25:31,796 Speaker 2: took me like two days for it to really sink in. 464 00:25:31,876 --> 00:25:33,996 Speaker 2: I think it was the biggest shock I'd experienced in 465 00:25:33,996 --> 00:25:37,716 Speaker 2: my life. And I remember that first night after winning, 466 00:25:37,716 --> 00:25:40,316 Speaker 2: I could not sleep at all, and then it didn't 467 00:25:40,356 --> 00:25:43,436 Speaker 2: really sink in that I'd won the whole thing until 468 00:25:43,516 --> 00:25:44,796 Speaker 2: about forty eight hours later. 469 00:25:46,076 --> 00:25:48,316 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if there was anyone in particular that you 470 00:25:48,396 --> 00:25:51,396 Speaker 1: heard from after your win that had a particular impact 471 00:25:51,396 --> 00:25:51,676 Speaker 1: on you. 472 00:25:54,036 --> 00:25:55,756 Speaker 2: There are a lot of people that have reached out 473 00:25:55,836 --> 00:25:59,396 Speaker 2: over the years, and I was just flooded with different 474 00:25:59,436 --> 00:26:02,636 Speaker 2: stories about people recounting their own struggles, whether it was 475 00:26:02,676 --> 00:26:06,156 Speaker 2: with vision loss or any sort of disability, whether it's 476 00:26:06,236 --> 00:26:10,556 Speaker 2: mental or physical, And all of these people just came 477 00:26:10,716 --> 00:26:14,196 Speaker 2: with their shortcomings to me and be very honest about 478 00:26:14,236 --> 00:26:19,676 Speaker 2: how seeing my story helped them try and turn their 479 00:26:19,716 --> 00:26:22,196 Speaker 2: lives around or pick themselves up. And you know, some 480 00:26:22,236 --> 00:26:25,476 Speaker 2: things in particular all the way from like just young 481 00:26:25,556 --> 00:26:27,876 Speaker 2: children saying that I gave them the courage to try 482 00:26:27,916 --> 00:26:31,716 Speaker 2: out for the soccer team, to someone a woman who 483 00:26:31,756 --> 00:26:34,636 Speaker 2: said that she had been battling depression for many months 484 00:26:34,676 --> 00:26:36,236 Speaker 2: and she couldn't get out of bed, and so she 485 00:26:36,316 --> 00:26:39,476 Speaker 2: was flipping through the TV and then saw me on 486 00:26:39,556 --> 00:26:42,036 Speaker 2: Master Chef and then started following it and watching the 487 00:26:42,076 --> 00:26:47,276 Speaker 2: whole season, and then after that she stopped thinking about 488 00:26:47,436 --> 00:26:50,396 Speaker 2: suicide and left her bed and started cooking again for 489 00:26:50,476 --> 00:26:55,876 Speaker 2: her family. So those sorts of stories, like they're so moving, 490 00:26:55,996 --> 00:26:58,596 Speaker 2: and I still can't fathom the impact that I've been 491 00:26:58,596 --> 00:27:01,276 Speaker 2: able to have on so many people. But I think, 492 00:27:01,276 --> 00:27:04,516 Speaker 2: if anything, I remember on the show, my friend Scott, 493 00:27:04,556 --> 00:27:07,156 Speaker 2: who's one of the contestants, he was like, you realize 494 00:27:07,196 --> 00:27:10,156 Speaker 2: that after the show, even if you don't win, you're 495 00:27:10,196 --> 00:27:12,676 Speaker 2: so much bigger than what this show is. And I 496 00:27:12,716 --> 00:27:14,476 Speaker 2: was just like, oh, shut up, Scott, Like I was like, 497 00:27:14,476 --> 00:27:15,796 Speaker 2: I don't know what you're tom about. You know, we 498 00:27:15,796 --> 00:27:17,476 Speaker 2: were like getting into the casting van. I was like, 499 00:27:17,556 --> 00:27:21,156 Speaker 2: I don't know, that's weird, and even then, like I 500 00:27:21,196 --> 00:27:23,956 Speaker 2: had no idea like the impact my story would have 501 00:27:24,116 --> 00:27:27,196 Speaker 2: on people. And years later, now it's been ten years 502 00:27:27,236 --> 00:27:29,996 Speaker 2: and I still hear people watching the season for the 503 00:27:29,996 --> 00:27:33,756 Speaker 2: first time and my story helping them through whatever it 504 00:27:33,836 --> 00:27:36,756 Speaker 2: is that they're struggling, and knowing that I've been given 505 00:27:36,796 --> 00:27:39,796 Speaker 2: this platform and blessed with this ability to help other 506 00:27:39,876 --> 00:27:43,316 Speaker 2: people just simply by sharing my story or being who 507 00:27:43,356 --> 00:27:46,916 Speaker 2: I am, that is like the biggest gift of all. 508 00:27:47,036 --> 00:27:50,596 Speaker 1: So have you have you internalized what Scott told you? 509 00:27:50,796 --> 00:27:50,876 Speaker 2: Like? 510 00:27:50,916 --> 00:27:51,876 Speaker 1: Do you believe him now? 511 00:27:52,796 --> 00:27:54,996 Speaker 2: I sort of do, but it's still very strange, but 512 00:27:55,076 --> 00:27:58,356 Speaker 2: yes I do. I had no idea like when I yeah, 513 00:27:58,516 --> 00:28:00,676 Speaker 2: it is still weird to me when I think back 514 00:28:00,676 --> 00:28:03,396 Speaker 2: and I guess I just didn't have that outside perspective 515 00:28:03,436 --> 00:28:06,036 Speaker 2: because I'm I just feel like I'm just me, you know, 516 00:28:06,076 --> 00:28:08,916 Speaker 2: And I'm just like Lotti Da, I'm just Christine, Like, yeah, 517 00:28:08,916 --> 00:28:10,756 Speaker 2: I'm line, but I just do whatever I do. 518 00:28:11,076 --> 00:28:15,836 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I appreciate your humility. But it's one 519 00:28:15,876 --> 00:28:18,196 Speaker 1: thing to say in the face of adversity that you 520 00:28:18,276 --> 00:28:21,876 Speaker 1: have big dreams, right, It's another thing to put in 521 00:28:22,636 --> 00:28:28,636 Speaker 1: the hundreds of hours of work to actually achieve those dreams, 522 00:28:29,036 --> 00:28:32,836 Speaker 1: to relearn fundamental things that you had taken for granted 523 00:28:33,196 --> 00:28:37,316 Speaker 1: in the early part of your life. That translation is 524 00:28:37,756 --> 00:28:41,796 Speaker 1: what you know. I personally find so impressive about your story, 525 00:28:42,836 --> 00:28:44,876 Speaker 1: and I don't want it to be lost. Just how 526 00:28:44,956 --> 00:28:49,116 Speaker 1: challenging it is to get back into a kitchen or 527 00:28:49,156 --> 00:28:51,156 Speaker 1: to adapt to life in a kitchen where you're losing 528 00:28:51,156 --> 00:28:54,836 Speaker 1: your vision and you are in the presence of danger, 529 00:28:55,036 --> 00:28:57,076 Speaker 1: and you are brave enough to learn how to use 530 00:28:57,116 --> 00:29:02,916 Speaker 1: knives and heat on a stove, and beyond that achieve artistry, 531 00:29:03,116 --> 00:29:05,876 Speaker 1: right like mastery at the highest levels. 532 00:29:06,356 --> 00:29:08,876 Speaker 2: I truly believe when people tell me these things like 533 00:29:08,876 --> 00:29:11,676 Speaker 2: what you just said, Maya, I'm like, honestly, I feel 534 00:29:11,716 --> 00:29:15,636 Speaker 2: like any person that would be put in my position, 535 00:29:15,996 --> 00:29:17,876 Speaker 2: will figure out a way, and you could do the 536 00:29:17,916 --> 00:29:20,396 Speaker 2: same exact thing that I've accomplished if you were put 537 00:29:20,396 --> 00:29:24,436 Speaker 2: in that same position. Because not true. I'm sorry. 538 00:29:24,556 --> 00:29:26,636 Speaker 1: I used to believe that. 539 00:29:26,836 --> 00:29:29,436 Speaker 2: I think people are much more resilient than they give 540 00:29:29,476 --> 00:29:31,636 Speaker 2: themselves credit for. And I'm for one of them, because 541 00:29:31,676 --> 00:29:33,476 Speaker 2: I used to think. I was like, there's no way 542 00:29:33,476 --> 00:29:38,676 Speaker 2: I can, like I find these goals insurmountable and lo 543 00:29:38,756 --> 00:29:41,356 Speaker 2: and behold like day by day, like you just figure 544 00:29:41,356 --> 00:29:43,996 Speaker 2: out a way, and then I was able to accomplish things. 545 00:29:43,996 --> 00:29:47,276 Speaker 2: But I don't think like I've accomplished like I think 546 00:29:47,316 --> 00:29:50,596 Speaker 2: I just am. I was lucky and that I was 547 00:29:50,596 --> 00:29:52,756 Speaker 2: in the right place at the right time. And yes 548 00:29:52,836 --> 00:29:56,036 Speaker 2: I do work hard, I do concur with that, and 549 00:29:56,796 --> 00:30:00,476 Speaker 2: yes I have some talent, but I don't think I'm 550 00:30:00,796 --> 00:30:04,036 Speaker 2: any more special than the next cook, or the next 551 00:30:04,396 --> 00:30:07,916 Speaker 2: blind person, or the next whoever next to me. We 552 00:30:07,996 --> 00:30:10,196 Speaker 2: always look to other people people and think, oh, they've 553 00:30:10,236 --> 00:30:12,996 Speaker 2: accomplished something we can, But it really comes down to 554 00:30:13,516 --> 00:30:15,436 Speaker 2: how much do you want something and how much you're 555 00:30:15,436 --> 00:30:18,636 Speaker 2: going to prioritize something. And for me, cooking was it 556 00:30:18,716 --> 00:30:22,996 Speaker 2: was it was something I just really really enjoyed, and 557 00:30:23,236 --> 00:30:25,436 Speaker 2: I didn't want to give that up because I lost 558 00:30:25,436 --> 00:30:27,036 Speaker 2: my vision, So I knew I had to find a 559 00:30:27,076 --> 00:30:29,076 Speaker 2: different way to go about it. And part of it 560 00:30:29,156 --> 00:30:31,516 Speaker 2: is cooking as a means of survival. Like I lived 561 00:30:31,556 --> 00:30:33,956 Speaker 2: by myself when I was losing my vision, I had 562 00:30:33,996 --> 00:30:36,396 Speaker 2: to you know, there was no such thing as uber 563 00:30:36,476 --> 00:30:39,916 Speaker 2: eats or deliveries that then that you were easily attainable. 564 00:30:39,956 --> 00:30:41,996 Speaker 2: So I had to figure out a way to make 565 00:30:42,036 --> 00:30:44,916 Speaker 2: food for myself to eat. And you know, it was 566 00:30:44,916 --> 00:30:47,356 Speaker 2: something for me to concentrate on and focus on when 567 00:30:47,356 --> 00:30:49,876 Speaker 2: I was dealing with the vision loss because cooking gave 568 00:30:49,916 --> 00:30:52,316 Speaker 2: me joy and I didn't always want to think about 569 00:30:52,356 --> 00:30:53,996 Speaker 2: the sad things that were happening to me. 570 00:30:54,796 --> 00:30:58,636 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I do find it reassuring and inspiring 571 00:30:58,796 --> 00:31:04,716 Speaker 1: that initially you were reliably underestimating your own resilience, because 572 00:31:04,756 --> 00:31:06,796 Speaker 1: maybe that means so many of us are too. 573 00:31:07,196 --> 00:31:08,996 Speaker 2: That is what I learned about myself is hey, I 574 00:31:10,676 --> 00:31:13,436 Speaker 2: am resilient. You're totally right. It's I don't think people 575 00:31:13,476 --> 00:31:15,596 Speaker 2: realize that, and it was something I had to learn 576 00:31:15,636 --> 00:31:17,956 Speaker 2: as well. When you realize that you are just one 577 00:31:17,996 --> 00:31:21,876 Speaker 2: blip in this world or in this universe, but things 578 00:31:21,916 --> 00:31:24,316 Speaker 2: will still continue to happen in the world around me. 579 00:31:24,436 --> 00:31:28,676 Speaker 2: So I have the choice of either dropping out of 580 00:31:28,716 --> 00:31:31,876 Speaker 2: society and feeling sorry for myself and not contributing to 581 00:31:31,916 --> 00:31:36,076 Speaker 2: the world, or I have the choice of figuring out 582 00:31:36,316 --> 00:31:39,996 Speaker 2: how can I, in spite of the hand that I've 583 00:31:40,356 --> 00:31:42,156 Speaker 2: was dealt with, or in spite of the challenges that 584 00:31:42,196 --> 00:31:46,916 Speaker 2: I'm trying to overcome, how can I pick myself up 585 00:31:46,996 --> 00:31:50,956 Speaker 2: and plug myself back into the society as it continues. 586 00:31:52,356 --> 00:31:54,356 Speaker 1: You've said that if you could get your vision back, 587 00:31:54,956 --> 00:31:58,596 Speaker 1: you wouldn't and I'm wondering, well, one, if you still 588 00:31:58,596 --> 00:32:01,676 Speaker 1: feel that way, and if you can say more about that. 589 00:32:02,956 --> 00:32:05,516 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, if I could get my vision back for 590 00:32:05,636 --> 00:32:08,436 Speaker 2: like five minutes or like a day or a week, 591 00:32:08,556 --> 00:32:11,516 Speaker 2: I totally would because I want to know what like 592 00:32:11,756 --> 00:32:14,676 Speaker 2: four K filming looks like. I always hear you know, 593 00:32:14,716 --> 00:32:16,676 Speaker 2: I'm still stuck back and like I don't even know when. 594 00:32:16,716 --> 00:32:19,516 Speaker 2: I don't know what Ariana Grande looks like. I don't 595 00:32:19,556 --> 00:32:20,836 Speaker 2: know what Justin Bieber looks like. 596 00:32:21,276 --> 00:32:24,796 Speaker 1: I do believe that it is a gift to be 597 00:32:24,796 --> 00:32:27,316 Speaker 1: able to see Ariana Grande. I think you could pass 598 00:32:27,316 --> 00:32:29,076 Speaker 1: on Justin Bieber in current form. 599 00:32:30,516 --> 00:32:32,636 Speaker 2: There's a lot of just things that I've happened or 600 00:32:32,876 --> 00:32:35,356 Speaker 2: cars nowadays, I don't know what the Tesla looks like. 601 00:32:35,996 --> 00:32:38,076 Speaker 2: They're just things that all of my friends talk about 602 00:32:38,116 --> 00:32:40,556 Speaker 2: that I feel. I'm just at a loss. I don't 603 00:32:40,556 --> 00:32:43,836 Speaker 2: really I can't fully experience these conversations. So I definitely 604 00:32:43,836 --> 00:32:45,956 Speaker 2: want to see what my friends and my family look 605 00:32:46,076 --> 00:32:48,436 Speaker 2: like today. I don't necessarily want to know what I 606 00:32:48,476 --> 00:32:52,476 Speaker 2: look like, because it's been a long time. You look great. 607 00:32:52,556 --> 00:32:55,916 Speaker 2: But I think it would be really weird for me 608 00:32:56,076 --> 00:33:00,836 Speaker 2: to completely gain my vision back permanently, because I'm so 609 00:33:01,196 --> 00:33:05,236 Speaker 2: used to living the life that I have now, and 610 00:33:05,476 --> 00:33:08,076 Speaker 2: I feel like doing some of the things that I 611 00:33:08,116 --> 00:33:11,156 Speaker 2: do without with that vision, it seems kind of more 612 00:33:11,276 --> 00:33:14,036 Speaker 2: fun or more accomplished in a way that I think 613 00:33:14,396 --> 00:33:16,556 Speaker 2: it would just be weird to have my vision back. 614 00:33:17,516 --> 00:33:20,676 Speaker 1: I want to dig into your relationship with independence today 615 00:33:20,876 --> 00:33:27,356 Speaker 1: because my personal perspective kind of crushing the independence game. Christine. Also, 616 00:33:27,636 --> 00:33:29,436 Speaker 1: it was a huge part of your identity during a 617 00:33:29,516 --> 00:33:32,516 Speaker 1: very formative moment in your life, and so what role 618 00:33:32,676 --> 00:33:36,116 Speaker 1: does independence play in constructing your self identity today? 619 00:33:37,076 --> 00:33:39,756 Speaker 2: Before? If you were to ask me this when I 620 00:33:39,876 --> 00:33:43,676 Speaker 2: was maybe in my teenage years or my early twenties, 621 00:33:43,756 --> 00:33:47,156 Speaker 2: I would say independence is not depending on other people 622 00:33:47,316 --> 00:33:51,116 Speaker 2: and being able to do everything yourself and rely solely 623 00:33:51,196 --> 00:33:54,276 Speaker 2: upon yourself. I think if you ask me now, what 624 00:33:54,316 --> 00:33:59,196 Speaker 2: does independence mean, It's changed for me because I'm not 625 00:33:59,356 --> 00:34:02,196 Speaker 2: going to be unrealistic and deny the fact that I 626 00:34:02,236 --> 00:34:04,956 Speaker 2: cannot drive myself somewhere until you know, we're close to 627 00:34:04,996 --> 00:34:08,556 Speaker 2: having like self driving cars, but until then, I can't 628 00:34:08,596 --> 00:34:13,796 Speaker 2: drive myselflf somewhere independently. So realistically, I don't feel like 629 00:34:14,196 --> 00:34:19,076 Speaker 2: I'm independent in that way, but I'm independent in the 630 00:34:19,156 --> 00:34:22,356 Speaker 2: fact that I'm living the life that I want to live. 631 00:34:22,836 --> 00:34:24,956 Speaker 2: When I want to ask for help, I'm able to 632 00:34:24,996 --> 00:34:28,156 Speaker 2: ask for help and I do it willingly. And then 633 00:34:28,236 --> 00:34:31,476 Speaker 2: also knowing when I don't need help, and doing things 634 00:34:31,516 --> 00:34:33,836 Speaker 2: on my own, even if it's a struggle. Like sometimes 635 00:34:33,836 --> 00:34:36,836 Speaker 2: my husband watches me, like try to open a package 636 00:34:37,116 --> 00:34:38,876 Speaker 2: or do something, and he's just like, why don't you 637 00:34:38,916 --> 00:34:40,236 Speaker 2: just let me do that for you? Because he gets 638 00:34:40,236 --> 00:34:43,076 Speaker 2: frustrated I take ten minutes. But then sometimes I'm like, no, 639 00:34:43,316 --> 00:34:45,716 Speaker 2: I just want to do this on my own, and 640 00:34:45,796 --> 00:34:48,076 Speaker 2: so I will do it because I'm stubborn like that. 641 00:34:48,316 --> 00:34:52,476 Speaker 2: And that's my definition of independence is asking for help 642 00:34:52,476 --> 00:34:53,996 Speaker 2: when you want it or feel like you need it, 643 00:34:54,036 --> 00:34:56,476 Speaker 2: but then also knowing when you want to do things 644 00:34:56,476 --> 00:34:58,516 Speaker 2: on your own, and so basically living the life that 645 00:34:58,556 --> 00:34:59,356 Speaker 2: you want. 646 00:35:20,236 --> 00:35:23,076 Speaker 1: Hey, thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed my 647 00:35:23,116 --> 00:35:26,236 Speaker 1: conversation with Christine Ha, I'd recommend you listen to a 648 00:35:26,276 --> 00:35:30,476 Speaker 1: conversation I had with psychologist doctor ael At Fischbach. The 649 00:35:30,556 --> 00:35:33,836 Speaker 1: episode is called The Science of Motivation. We'll link to 650 00:35:33,876 --> 00:35:45,596 Speaker 1: it in the show notes. A Slight Change of Plans 651 00:35:45,676 --> 00:35:48,876 Speaker 1: is created, written, and executive produced by me Maya Schunker. 652 00:35:49,516 --> 00:35:52,996 Speaker 1: The Slight Changed family includes Tyler Green, our senior producer, 653 00:35:53,356 --> 00:35:57,076 Speaker 1: Jen Guera, our senior editor, Ben Tolliday, our sound engineer, 654 00:35:57,356 --> 00:36:01,956 Speaker 1: Emily Rosstek our producer, and Neia Label our executive producer. 655 00:36:02,196 --> 00:36:05,196 Speaker 1: Louis Scara wrote our theme song and Ginger Smith helped 656 00:36:05,276 --> 00:36:08,276 Speaker 1: arrange the vocals. A Slight Change of Plans is a 657 00:36:08,276 --> 00:36:11,636 Speaker 1: production of Push Industries. So big thanks to everyone there, 658 00:36:11,916 --> 00:36:16,276 Speaker 1: including Malcolm Gladwell, Jacob Weisberg, Lee talm Allott and Heather Fame, 659 00:36:17,516 --> 00:36:20,556 Speaker 1: and of course a very special thanks to Jimmy Lee. 660 00:36:21,356 --> 00:36:23,916 Speaker 1: You can follow A Slight Change of plans on Instagram 661 00:36:23,996 --> 00:36:34,796 Speaker 1: at doctor Maya Schunker see you next week. I'm wondered, Christine, 662 00:36:35,796 --> 00:36:38,356 Speaker 1: what parts of your identity do you feel have stayed 663 00:36:38,356 --> 00:36:41,796 Speaker 1: the same over the years, and what parts have maybe changed? 664 00:36:42,076 --> 00:36:44,676 Speaker 2: I like this question things that I think I've stayed 665 00:36:44,676 --> 00:36:47,516 Speaker 2: the same. I think I'm still the same goofball, I 666 00:36:47,556 --> 00:36:50,516 Speaker 2: still have the same sense of humor. I remember I 667 00:36:50,916 --> 00:36:53,196 Speaker 2: joked with all of the producers or Mastersholm I'm like, 668 00:36:53,236 --> 00:36:55,356 Speaker 2: I said so many witty things and you cut it 669 00:36:55,396 --> 00:36:59,836 Speaker 2: all out like in post production, and they were like, yeah, well, 670 00:36:59,836 --> 00:37:01,396 Speaker 2: you know, we didn't have time for everything. 671 00:37:01,756 --> 00:37:03,276 Speaker 1: Yeah, don't silence. 672 00:37:02,836 --> 00:37:03,716 Speaker 2: My humor people. 673 00:37:04,196 --> 00:37:06,516 Speaker 1: I should let you know that every time my editor 674 00:37:06,596 --> 00:37:09,076 Speaker 1: Jen tries to cut a joke from one of my interviews, 675 00:37:09,196 --> 00:37:13,756 Speaker 1: I feel emotionally wounded and deeply deeply offended. I'm like, 676 00:37:14,156 --> 00:37:16,436 Speaker 1: do you not understand that this podcast is a launching 677 00:37:16,436 --> 00:37:18,876 Speaker 1: pad for my future career in comedy? Okay,