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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Smitha.

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Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stuff I Never told you production by

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Speaker 2: heart you, and today we are bringing back a classic

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Speaker 2: on elevated horror. And I have to say, since we

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Speaker 2: did this one, the conversation has continued.

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Speaker 1: Things are happening.

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Speaker 2: People are still fighting about it, and I have seen

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Speaker 2: so many new movies I could add to this list

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Speaker 2: that I gave in this episode, so quick run down,

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Speaker 2: I would just say, blink twice the substance first, Omen, Immaculate,

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Speaker 2: Woman of the Hour, and Heretic.

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Speaker 1: And that's just a few. Like There's been a lot,

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Speaker 1: a lot of.

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Speaker 2: Horror coming out and that I would think would fit

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Speaker 2: into this conversation. But it is interesting. Part of it

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Speaker 2: is because I researched this and I watch a lot

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Speaker 2: of horror. I get updates about this all of the time.

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Speaker 2: But since we also just did an episode on substance

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Speaker 2: or will do one, depending on when you listen to this,

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Speaker 2: I thought it was appropriate to bring it back, so

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Speaker 2: please enjoy.

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Speaker 3: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephan

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Speaker 3: never told you a protection of iHeartRadio, and today we're

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Speaker 3: going to finally be addressing our if we kind of

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Speaker 3: hinted at it our episode on elevated.

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Speaker 2: Horror and what it has to do with women and

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Speaker 2: me Too, which we kind of did very briefly in

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Speaker 2: two Happy Hours that were just like these quick reviews

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Speaker 2: on recent horror movies. But also we have done entire

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Speaker 2: episodes on movies that would fall into this, So we've

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Speaker 2: done feminist movie Fridays on Screen five, Alien, the Witch.

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Speaker 2: I would say even Women in Revenge could kind of

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Speaker 2: be counted in here, some of the movies we talked

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Speaker 2: about in those episodes, because that was a two parter,

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Speaker 2: our Final Girl episode, our Scream Queen's episode, our episode

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Speaker 2: on women in Monsters, women who are monsters, and even

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Speaker 2: urban legends, women urban legend.

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Speaker 1: Monsters, all of this stuff.

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Speaker 2: So this one's kind of interesting because I'm gonna I'm

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Speaker 2: going to break down what exactly is elevated horror, which

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Speaker 2: is kind of a big question and I have a

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Speaker 2: lot of thoughts about it, and then we're gonna run

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Speaker 2: through some movies that are examples of it very quickly

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Speaker 2: at the end, because otherwise this episode would be oh forever,

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Speaker 2: forever long. But yes, so Maantha has always feel free

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Speaker 2: to jump in at any time.

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Speaker 1: I got you.

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Speaker 2: I have been watching quite a few horror movies lately,

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Speaker 2: and I have a lot more to go because we

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Speaker 2: are in October. I've got my list, but I'm also

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Speaker 2: trying to introduce some new things, try out some new things.

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Speaker 2: Brief discussions around violence, domestic violence, sexual assault, child endangerment,

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Speaker 2: child abuse, and murder in this that sounds really bad.

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Speaker 2: We're not going to get into indubt into any of that,

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Speaker 2: but I just wanted to put it out there because

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Speaker 2: we are talking about horror movies where that comes up

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Speaker 2: quite often. All right, So, elevated horror, what exactly is it?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 2: That is hotly contested and very very divisive. The general

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Speaker 2: consensus seems to be that it's essentially a brand of

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Speaker 2: horror that leans more into being emotionally upsetting, as opposed

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Speaker 2: to things like gore jump scares. I might have set you,

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Speaker 2: but that doesn't mean at all that there are no

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Speaker 2: gore and jumps.

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Speaker 4: Our feminist movie for this month was it elevated horror?

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Speaker 4: Because I was upset Annie.

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Speaker 3: It was?

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Speaker 1: You know what?

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Speaker 2: In a minute, we should break down our own definitions

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Speaker 2: of what it is. I would qualify it as elevated horror.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, look forward to that episode. I was upset,

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Speaker 1: she was quite upset, and it was fair. It was fair. Okay.

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Speaker 2: So some people take issue with the quote elitism of

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Speaker 2: the term elevated horror and how it implies that horror

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Speaker 2: needed to be elevated. Basically, that the term is pretentious

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Speaker 2: and is you know, saying a fun slasher movie needs

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Speaker 2: to be elevated it's not very good, or that horror

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Speaker 2: itself it's a trashy.

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Speaker 1: Genre, so this is like good horror.

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Speaker 2: Many argue it's an unnecessary term or subgenre, that there's

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Speaker 2: still horror movies at the core, like why do we

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Speaker 2: need this term, and essentially that maybe it's a way

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Speaker 2: for people who are embarrassed or ashamed to admit they

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Speaker 2: like horror movies to say they like horror movies even

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Speaker 2: though elevated horror movies that they're talking about are still

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Speaker 2: horror movies, so like being like, I don't like horror,

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Speaker 2: I like elevated horror, but it's still horror essentially. Some

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Speaker 2: say it's basically just a more pretentious term for psychological horror,

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Speaker 2: art horror, or social horror. For instance, horror movies around

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Speaker 2: race like get Out, which was classified as Best Musical

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Speaker 2: or Comedy at the seventy fifth Golden Global Wards. To

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Speaker 2: illustrate a point that we're going to mat later, but

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Speaker 2: essentially like, Okay, I'm gonna break this down in a minute,

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Speaker 2: but it sounds like we're having a lot of discussion

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Speaker 2: around what these these movies actually are. Others argue that

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Speaker 2: while it's silly, this term is silly, it's useful for

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Speaker 2: uplifting a genre that for so long has been looked

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Speaker 2: down upon. All right, so this is kind of stream

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Speaker 2: of consciousness. But here is my thought about this whole thing. Okay,

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Speaker 2: all right, So I am somewhere in the middle because

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Speaker 2: I love a good bad horror movie, which I think

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Speaker 2: is a thing that exists, and I see nothing wrong

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Speaker 2: with that. Like, I don't think that's a guilty pleasure.

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Speaker 2: I don't think like that means it's not worthy of watching.

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Speaker 2: I think if you want a good bad horror movie,

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Speaker 2: you can find a good, good.

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Speaker 1: Bad horror movie. I like a slasher.

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Speaker 2: I think if I had to define elevated horror, which

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Speaker 2: I heard for the first time in Screen five, actually

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Speaker 2: I hadn't heard it before. Then they have a whole

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Speaker 2: discussion about it at the beginning of that movie. I

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Speaker 2: would agree that the term can sound pretty snobby. I

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Speaker 2: don't think psychological horror quite captures what I thought elevated

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Speaker 2: horror is. Social horror is closer, though that's still not

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Speaker 2: quite right. Horror, as I have said a million times,

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Speaker 2: reflects our societal fears, sometimes reinforce them, sometimes critiquing them,

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Speaker 2: sometimes doing all of those things. So when I think

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Speaker 2: of elevated horror, in my mind, it feels more like

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Speaker 2: an intentional critique. Because sometimes horror movies make they have

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Speaker 2: these messaging in them that I'm not sure they meant.

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Speaker 1: To have, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: But sometimes it's very intentional and that can work out,

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Speaker 2: and sometimes it doesn't work out. Sometimes it feels like

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Speaker 2: way too blunt or like in your face heavy handed.

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Speaker 3: But so.

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Speaker 2: Going on that definition, something like the original Scream could

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Speaker 2: be in the mix, because I guess self aware is

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Speaker 2: also a term wild get thrown in there. But they

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Speaker 2: kind of knew like what these messages were and.

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Speaker 1: Were commenting on them.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I can see how that feels like, you know,

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Speaker 2: you're still passing judgment on other horror movies, and also

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Speaker 2: you know, interpretations and messaging often are unintentional and or

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Speaker 2: like you can't really predict always what the audience is

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Speaker 2: going to take away from something.

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Speaker 1: Intent is hard to judge sometimes, But.

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Speaker 2: You know a lot of people said, like, can we

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Speaker 2: not just say some movies are better than others, that

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Speaker 2: some movies pull it off better, but okay.

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Speaker 1: For our purposes.

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Speaker 2: In this episode, it is a movie that is using

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Speaker 2: horror to comment pretty directly on a social issue. I

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Speaker 2: also have personally never felt elevated horror meant that other

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Speaker 2: horror movies suck or are not worthwhile. But I've also

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Speaker 2: grown up like one watching horror movies all the time.

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Speaker 2: I think the time I grew up, there was a

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Speaker 2: lot of good horror movies or horror movies that people

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Speaker 2: liked a lot. So I never got the impression that

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Speaker 2: a lot of people seem to get I'm gonna talk

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Speaker 2: about in a minute, that they had been judge for

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Speaker 2: like any horror movies. I never really got that. I

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Speaker 2: also grew up around a lot of sci fi movies

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Speaker 2: and fantasy movies that had similar terminology like you hear

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Speaker 2: you know HEADI or cerebral sci fi, high fantasy. You

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Speaker 2: can make all these same arguments we're making right now

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Speaker 2: about that. I just assumed those kinds of things meant

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Speaker 2: that you paid more attention to them, like you needed

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Speaker 2: to pay more attention to them because there was some

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Speaker 2: message going on, which, yes, isn't always good or isn't

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Speaker 2: always done well and can fail at its message. So

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Speaker 2: it doesn't mean it's better. I guess that's what I'm

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Speaker 2: trying to say. So this is a very complicated thing, obviously. Also,

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Speaker 2: entertainment sometimes gets a popular interpretation. Yes, that might not

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Speaker 2: have been intended. We've talked about a lot of those

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Speaker 2: movies before, and yeah, a lot of stuff I read

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Speaker 2: when I was researching this did feel like the people

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Speaker 2: who were writing it felt slighted for liking horror, and

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Speaker 2: this term elevated horror just annoyed them, especially people who

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Speaker 2: prefer slashers, Like they were like, are you saying slashers.

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Speaker 1: I'm not good?

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Speaker 2: I prefer them, which I would say is slasher could

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Speaker 2: be an elevated horror. But you know, one of the

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Speaker 2: theories about how this term came to be is that

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Speaker 2: it was to counter an earlier rise and ultra gory

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Speaker 2: slasher slash horror movies.

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Speaker 1: So it was like a way of saying, it's not

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Speaker 1: that thing.

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Speaker 2: It's not this really gory slasher torture porn sometimes as

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Speaker 2: it's called. Another similar theory suggests that after a real

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Speaker 2: slump in the quality of horror movies in the early

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Speaker 2: two thousands, the genre needed a rebranding. So this was

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Speaker 2: their rebranding. And I get the feelings of hurt people

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Speaker 2: who've been here so long, watching horror for so long

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Speaker 2: and have loved this genre, and now they're hearing this

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Speaker 2: term and they are like.

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Speaker 1: What are you talking about.

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Speaker 2: You're basically calling everything I like like a less man.

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Speaker 1: I get that.

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Speaker 2: It also dismissed the fact that whatever you call it,

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Speaker 2: elevated horror is not now A bit more on that later.

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Speaker 2: As someone who has acted in a lot of horror movies,

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Speaker 2: it was frequently pitched to me. Horror was frequently pitched

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Speaker 2: to me as a subpar genre that was easier to

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Speaker 2: get distribution for you. So I do think this has changed,

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Speaker 2: especially now, I feel like we're I think I said this,

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Speaker 2: We're living in a glut of horror movies, like so

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Speaker 2: many horror movies, and people are excited to see them.

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Speaker 1: But when when I was acting in them.

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Speaker 2: Everybody in almost everybody felt like I would rather be

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Speaker 2: doing any other genre. But this is the easiest genre

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Speaker 2: to get made and to get distributed. As I said,

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Speaker 2: The Witch is often credited with really launching the term

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Speaker 2: elevated horror, though movies much older than that, even more

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Speaker 2: recently older than that, if that makes sense, are included

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Speaker 2: in the subgenre.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: It is mocked quite a bit in Screen five, which

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Speaker 2: funnily enough, I would.

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Speaker 1: Call an.

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Speaker 2: But if all this is confusing you, I think there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of it's just a lot of opinions about it.

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Speaker 2: Indie Wire has a really good thread of people debating

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Speaker 2: the term, and I really recommend it because I think

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Speaker 2: there was a lot of viewpoints that were showcased, so

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Speaker 2: it wasn't just one sided. There was a lot of

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Speaker 2: you know, it's a useful term. I don't like it.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, I hate it, and here's why. Or no,

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Speaker 2: I like it and here's why. So I recommend it

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Speaker 2: if you want to learn more. And yeah, horror movies

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Speaker 2: are popular. They are experiencing a surge of popularity right now.

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Speaker 2: They have recently swept up a bunch of awards. They

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Speaker 2: make big money movies like Paranormal Activity, started a whole franchise,

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Speaker 2: solidified a whole company and on a tiny budget, And

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Speaker 2: as we've discussed before, they've seen a steady and increasing

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Speaker 2: popularity amongst women in marginalized folks pretty much since they've

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Speaker 2: been around. Still, the critique that they have historically not

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Speaker 2: been respected is a fair one. To this day, I

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Speaker 2: think only six horror movies have been nominated for Best Picture,

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Speaker 2: though that does depend on what do you classify as

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Speaker 2: a horror movie. There are similar numbers around fantasy and

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Speaker 2: sci fi. People looking into the matter also argue that

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Speaker 2: what is successful influences what is made, meaning we are

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Speaker 2: living in a glut of horror right now because they

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Speaker 2: have been successful, so they are getting made. But on

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Speaker 2: top of that, many fine solace in horror when living

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Speaker 2: in horrific times. And in fact, I just saw an

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Speaker 2: article about this, which is probably because Google watches everything

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Speaker 2: you do, but it was like, oh, you would want

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Speaker 2: to read this article. According to the Horror Report, in

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Speaker 2: two thousand, around two hundred horror films were produced, but

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Speaker 2: by twenty sixteen this number had risen to more than

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Speaker 2: one thousand. They're getting more well known actors, writers, directors, etc.

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Speaker 2: COVID gave way to what some call lockdown horror. I

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Speaker 2: think the host, which I do love, as discussed in

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Speaker 2: previous episodes, during times of strife like a global pandemic,

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Speaker 2: more people turn to horror than might would normally.

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Speaker 1: For the catharsis and emotional release that can offer. Popular

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Speaker 1: shows like Stranger Things have introduced people to the genre

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Speaker 1: while also playing homage to it. Here's the quote from

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Speaker 1: horror legend West Craven. Horror films don't create fear, they

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Speaker 1: release it, So I think it makes sense. Like right now,

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Speaker 1: there are so many getting made, and we're seeing a

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Speaker 1: wider variety of.

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Speaker 2: What's getting made. I do think it's interesting.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I get.

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Speaker 2: This when people say elevated horror, what they really mean

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Speaker 2: is stories we haven't seen before, and a lot of

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Speaker 2: it has to do with women in marginalized people, which

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Speaker 2: I think is pretty telling. But anyway, yes, we are

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Speaker 2: seeing a lot when it comes to elevated horror, whatever

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Speaker 2: you want to call it, of movies that grapple directly

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Speaker 2: with issues specific to women, something that took off kind

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Speaker 2: of after around the time of Me Too. But again,

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Speaker 2: this isn't new. This is kind of like a new

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Speaker 2: wave of something I feel like has been here forever.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, in this new wave, what we're seeing a

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Speaker 2: lot of things around in these movies and women is trauma,

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Speaker 2: so much trauma. We are seeing a lot of things

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Speaker 2: that you could relate to me to like sexual assault, gaslighting,

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Speaker 2: not being believed, which again is in all kinds of

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Speaker 2: horror movies, domestic violence, pregnancy and motherhood, a loss of child,

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Speaker 2: and mental health. And I would say, uh, based on

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Speaker 2: a lot of movies I've watched recently, some kind of

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Speaker 2: substance abuse and then also like men trying to control

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Speaker 2: women into being back in like old times.

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Speaker 1: Like men trying to control women. I guess ultimately.

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Speaker 2: That's just what I have seen, and it was something

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Speaker 2: that as someone who watches a lot of horror movies,

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Speaker 2: I've kind of been like, huh, A lot of these

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Speaker 2: movies are talking about this stuff right now, which I

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Speaker 2: find interesting, And we have covered it in full episodes.

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Speaker 2: We have covered, as we said, Scream five, which has

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Speaker 2: this whole conversation on elevated horror, and it's very clear

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Speaker 2: that the killer on the phone does.

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Speaker 1: Not like elevated horror.

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Speaker 2: The term and or otherwise, But you can check that

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Speaker 2: out if you want to learn more.

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Speaker 1: I think the.

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Speaker 2: Witch's it's a good example of this and that they

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Speaker 2: are they're talking about witches, but they're also talking about

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Speaker 2: sexuality and a young girl coming into her sexuality and

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Speaker 2: being called a witch and what that means and how

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Speaker 2: it turns you away, it turns you towards the devil

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Speaker 2: and butter or whatever it is, which I mean so

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Speaker 2: many witch movies are ultimately about that, about being outcast

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Speaker 2: from society and what does that make you and what

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Speaker 2: do you do when you're outcasts? And usually a lot

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Speaker 2: of sisterhood is involved.

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Speaker 4: A lot of sisterhood and betrayal, and usually one.

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Speaker 2: Man yes uh yeah, but not you know, not always

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Speaker 2: as their sister. There wasn't in this one, that's for sure. Well,

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Speaker 2: I guess that at the end there was. There was

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Speaker 2: The Love Witch, which I really recommend, which has a

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Speaker 2: whole thing about sexuality.

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Speaker 1: It's got to hold like period.

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Speaker 2: Vibe or she uses her tampons and spells and stuff.

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Speaker 1: So I recommend that one.

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Speaker 2: We talked about fresh in the whole episode, which has

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Speaker 2: to do with modern day dating and consumption culture. When

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Speaker 2: it comes to dating We talked about She Will, which

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Speaker 2: is about using and abusing women, for which I would

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Speaker 2: say is also a huge one. This is a big

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Speaker 2: theme I've seen lately in my horror movies.

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Speaker 1: I think two I watched yesterday, Like.

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Speaker 4: That definitely follows real life.

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Speaker 1: It's true, it's true what.

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Speaker 4: Aronofsky and Polanski they do.

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Speaker 2: Th mm hmmm, yeah, I mean it's it's a big theme,

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Speaker 2: and a lot that I've seen lately is that and

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Speaker 2: kind of the trauma that falls out from it and

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Speaker 2: dealing with that trauma. We talked about men and my

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Speaker 2: quick happy hours and how that's all about like blaming women,

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Speaker 2: which I've also seen quite a bit of. And then

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Speaker 2: X and Pearl, which are you know, sequel, prequel original.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how you might to say it, but

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Speaker 1: some of the.

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Speaker 2: Things I didn't talk about in that I went to

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Speaker 2: go see it a second time. I went to go

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Speaker 2: see Pearl a second time recently because I just had

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Speaker 2: a like after you and I was like, you.

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Speaker 1: Know what, I want to go again.

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Speaker 2: Some of the things I didn't talk about in there

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Speaker 2: was that movie has kind of got a lot of

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Speaker 2: messaging around, like the nostalgia of remembering an older time

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Speaker 2: and how it was better, but this movie does not

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Speaker 2: do that.

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Speaker 1: It's like, no, women were never actually like that. You'd

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Speaker 1: know that, right, They actually weren't.

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Speaker 2: Super happy with this day I went taking care of

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Speaker 2: your family and not having opportunities.

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Speaker 1: There's this whole idea of.

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Speaker 2: Having to give up being special, having to give up

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Speaker 2: your dreams and settle, which we've also talked about before.

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Speaker 2: But then something else is jealousy with other women. She

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Speaker 2: kind of touched on, but Pearl was real jealous of

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Speaker 2: other women who could get out in her mind, who

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Speaker 2: escaped this sort of settling that she did not want

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Speaker 2: to do.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so those are movies we talked about.

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Speaker 2: One we haven't talked about but we definitely could and

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Speaker 2: should is Midsommar.

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Speaker 4: Did we not do an episode on that?

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Speaker 1: We have not done an episode on Midsummar? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: No, No, I think we've just talked about it a lot,

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Speaker 2: you and me personally.

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Speaker 4: Wow, my head thought we had already done this whole episode.

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Speaker 1: Okay, No, I'm pretty sure.

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Speaker 2: I mean maybe we have, and listeners will write in

359
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Speaker 2: I'll be like, oh goodness, me, who knows. But one

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Speaker 2: of the things I find really interesting about midsommar is

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Speaker 2: how I have been in a group of friends who

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Speaker 2: have seen it, and the divide will.

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Speaker 1: Fall amongst the men and women in the.

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Speaker 2: Group of whether or not Florence Hugh's character was being

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Speaker 2: gas lit or whether or not the boyfriend was the

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Speaker 2: one that was being wronged.

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Speaker 1: And I always find it quite fascinating.

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Speaker 5: That's not even a conversation on my mind, I know, right,

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Speaker 5: So if you haven't seen it, Like the most brief

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Speaker 5: explanation is, like Florence Who's character, Danny, has a huge tragedy.

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Speaker 2: In the beginning, She's in this relationship with this guy

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Speaker 2: and his friend group who is not great, is telling

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Speaker 2: him he needs to break up with her. He doesn't

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Speaker 2: want to do it now she's got this tragedy, so

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Speaker 2: I guess he feels compelled to stay with her. But

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Speaker 2: she feels in her mind like she's always asking too

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Speaker 2: much of him, and so ultimately she finds out he

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Speaker 2: was going to Sweden with this group. She wants to go.

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Speaker 2: He never asked everybody. He's like, no, no, no, you can come.

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Speaker 1: He definite. He never tells her she can't come or

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Speaker 1: he doesn't want her to go.

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Speaker 2: So they go together. Things happen, it's not good. She

383
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 2: kind of finds this sort of happiness though, but it

384
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 2: is very much he is. Like when I watch it,

385
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Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, this is a gaslighting one oh one.

386
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 2: This guy and his friends mostly are just making her

387
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:27,720
Speaker 2: feel like she's being ridiculous or too much. She feels

388
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Speaker 2: like she has to hide her grief all the time.

389
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Speaker 2: There's like five scenes in the movie where she goes

390
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Speaker 2: to hide so she can like cry or can make

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Speaker 2: herself feel better, which I get, like, if it's a

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Speaker 2: thing where you don't want to cry on people, I understand,

393
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Speaker 2: But it's not that so much as she doesn't feel

394
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Speaker 2: like she can because she feels like he'll leave her.

395
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Speaker 2: And there's a pretty explosive deleted scene where he's like

396
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 2: I cannot you were too much to deal with and

397
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Speaker 2: all the stuff. And I felt like when I watched it,

398
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Speaker 2: like I said, gaslighting one on one, he was very

399
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Speaker 2: much doing the bare minimum as somebody in a relationship

400
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Speaker 2: and making her feel bad that he was.

401
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Speaker 1: Doing the bare minimum.

402
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 2: But I have talked to so many of my dude

403
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,159
Speaker 2: friends who were like, oh, I can't stand her, Like

404
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 2: she's always asking for stuff and she just would.

405
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Speaker 1: Not leave him alone. And just like, I don't know what.

406
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Speaker 1: I don't think you were reading. I don't think you're

407
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 1: picking up the right message.

408
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 4: Year because I need to talk to them.

409
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Speaker 2: Well, it was interesting because I just like you said,

410
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Speaker 2: it never occurred to me, like I was just like, yes,

411
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 2: this is not a good boyfriend, this is gaslighting.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

413
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 2: But it's got a lot going on when it comes

414
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Speaker 2: to that, and I think we should if we have

415
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 2: not done an episode on it, we should come back

416
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 2: and talk about it, because I have a lot of

417
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Speaker 2: things to say.

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Speaker 1: Okay. And then the other lamb is one have you

419
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:02,360
Speaker 1: ever seen this one?

420
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,679
Speaker 4: No, that is a new one. I don't know if

421
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 4: I've ever heard of it.

422
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 2: Okay, So I feel like I'm just giving you a

423
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 2: bunch of recommendations.

424
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: Well, I no longer trust you, so that's fair. I

425
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,439
Speaker 1: always look them up, listeners, look them up. Don't just

426
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 1: take my word.

427
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 4: If you can't tell, we're.

428
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,479
Speaker 1: Look it up. I don't want to send you stray.

429
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Speaker 2: The other lamb is often called, like you know, another

430
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 2: version of midsommar. It involves a cult of this guy.

431
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 2: It's run by this guy who looks like Jesus. Essentially,

432
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Speaker 2: he's got all these young women, young girls in this cult,

433
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Speaker 2: and when one of the women or young girls gets

434
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 2: the period, gets their period, it's like, oh, now you

435
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 2: have to have sex with this cult eater.

436
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: Here's a big preference for youth.

437
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 2: It's got a lot of messaging around that, which is

438
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,439
Speaker 2: also present in a lot of these and just this

439
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 2: idea of all these women being expendable to him and

440
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 2: something he can just control and use and throw away

441
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 2: and hurt and the women kind of coming together to

442
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 2: combat that. You're next, which I'm just gonna say, ain't

443
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 2: your normal final girl. There's a lot there's been a

444
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 2: lot of movies about kind of flipping the final girl storyline.

445
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 2: This is a big one, The bab A Duke, which

446
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 2: I when I saw it even I was like wow,

447
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 2: because I hadn't seen a portrayal of motherhood like that,

448
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 2: because it's basically kind of like, you know, depression and

449
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 2: grief and mental health are not easy, They don't really

450
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 2: go away.

451
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 1: Healing is not an easy.

452
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 2: Thing, and motherhood isn't always pretty and you don't always

453
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 2: really like your child, which is something you don't see

454
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 2: very often, especially not in that way where it wasn't

455
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 2: like she was out to I don't know. I feel

456
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 2: like when you see that the child is evil or something,

457
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 2: or either she's possessed, but in this case, it was

458
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 2: just it wasn't that, which was something that was.

459
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: Pretty new to me.

460
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 2: I know there's a lot we could talk about with

461
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 2: the Babaduk as well, but I'm trying to keep this

462
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 2: very brief. So there's this movie that came out I

463
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 2: think it won a bunch of words called You Won't

464
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 2: Be Alone, and in it, one of the main character

465
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 2: is abducted by a witch as a child and becomes

466
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 2: a shape shifter, and it has a really interesting storyline

467
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 2: about her kind of re entering the world and realizing

468
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 2: that it's easier to be a man. Because this is

469
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 2: set in like the eighteen hundreds or maybe earlier. It's

470
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 2: not modern day at.

471
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: All, so kind of her.

472
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 2: Because she wasn't raised in the world, right, so she

473
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 2: injures it and is like, why is it better to

474
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 2: be a man? But she can shape shift into all

475
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 2: these people and it's kind of a body horror film,

476
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 2: so it's got some pretty gruesome shape shifting scenes. But

477
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 2: I thought that was interesting. Ready or not, which we

478
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 2: have talked about which I felt like the message was

479
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 2: don't get married or either. If there's money involved, they're

480
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 2: gonna choose the money. They're not gonna choose you. You'll

481
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 2: love Pells in comparison to his riches and security and

482
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 2: his family's riches and security. Resurrection, this was the movie

483
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 2: I was trying to remember when we did those happy hours.

484
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 2: This one just came out. It's pretty it's pretty dark.

485
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 2: It's a lot of trauma and that one a lot

486
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 2: of messaging around how no one believes you or are either.

487
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 2: You finally confide in somebody and they don't know what

488
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 2: to do with it and they're like, okay, can I

489
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 2: leave now? And jealous men who can't handle you having

490
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 2: anyone else in your life and doing terrible things because

491
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 2: of that.

492
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,199
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

493
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 2: The actually this was both Pearl and Resurrection have like

494
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,919
Speaker 2: nine minute monologues from the main actors that are very,

495
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 2: very impressive. And then I just saw Barbarian, which is

496
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 2: also pretty disturbing. But it's got a whole thing about mothers,

497
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,479
Speaker 2: oh my goodness, and monsters created by men and the

498
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 2: monstrous men that created them and then facing those monsters.

499
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: It's got a real shit.

500
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 4: It's just spoil me on Barbarians Mothers, I know anything

501
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 4: about mothers.

502
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 2: In there, I honestly I do not think I did,

503
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 2: because the movie takes a real turn.

504
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: It takes a real turn.

505
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 2: And then, just briefly, as I said, this is not new,

506
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 2: and a lot of these movies, you can argue with

507
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 2: me what you would put them in this mysterious category

508
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 2: that may or may not exist of elevated horror, because

509
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 2: I do think for a lot of horror movies you

510
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 2: could find some societal messaging and them. I just think

511
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 2: there's kind of a difference in the intentionality of it.

512
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 2: But you can fight with me that with that as well.

513
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 2: But it is not new at all. I think this

514
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 2: is just kind of a current wave that we're seeing.

515
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 2: I just watched, for instance, Martyrs, which is a super

516
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: disturbing film about punishing women, torturing them until they become martyrs.

517
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 2: So that you can see what's on the other side,

518
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 2: if there's anything on the other side.

519
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: Rosemary's Baby, yes, oof, because that has.

520
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 2: Plan scheme involved, But it is like a whole thing

521
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 2: about like or like before around the time of Roe v.

522
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: Wade and being gas lit and having control over your

523
00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 2: body marital rape. Alien, which we talked about, has the

524
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:10,959
Speaker 2: whole messaging around abortion and body autonomy and uh yeah,

525
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 2: just pregnancy in general. And then you know, we're not

526
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 2: really going into this now, even though I'd love to

527
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 2: come back to it. But things like that Ring in

528
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 2: the Grudge I have a lot about because those were

529
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 2: coming out, you know, after the atomic bombs were dropped

530
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 2: in Japan, and it was this kind of fear of like,

531
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 2: oh did this change are we? Is this impacting our bodies?

532
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 2: And why is going to happen? Like when we have children,

533
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 2: what's going to happen? And I read a pretty interesting

534
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 2: exactly exactly. I did just watch Satoko versus Kayoko, and

535
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 2: you got some updates about that.

536
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: I had a good time.

537
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 2: I would not put an elevated orror, but I had

538
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 2: a good time.

539
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 5: You know.

540
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: That's the thing.

541
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 2: It's like, it can you can have fun with these movies.

542
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be like anyway. And also it's

543
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 2: just to say this is not unique to the horror genre.

544
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 2: I think when I was reading about this, I was like,

545
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 2: I've heard this argument play out in.

546
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: Pretty much every genre of not every genre, So I don't.

547
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 2: I don't think this conversation is new, but I do

548
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 2: think that there is something something happening that feels like

549
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: right now that we're really wanting to see these movies.

550
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 2: And we've we've had other periods of it before, but

551
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 2: right now, to me, it feels like there's just a

552
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 2: lot of them coming out and that they're pretty popular.

553
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's just those are some of my thoughts.

554
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 2: I know I did like a rapid fire through those

555
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 2: movies at the end. But hopefully some of you are

556
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:49,959
Speaker 2: listening you're like, oh, maybe I'll check that one out.

557
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: Maybe I'll check that one out.

558
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 2: But yes, as Samantha said, look it up because I

559
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 2: don't want to beat you astray. Well you'll hear more

560
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 2: of that beef soon.

561
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: Our upcoming feminist movie Friday.

562
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 2: But in the meantime, as always, listeners, if you had

563
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 2: any thoughts on this, if you have any suggestions, oh

564
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 2: my gosh, we are Samantha and I are in full swing,

565
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 2: so please yes, let us no. You can email us

566
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 2: at seven of them mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot carm.

567
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast

568
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,239
Speaker 2: or on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You.

569
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: Thanks is always to our superducer Christina.

570
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 4: We are not beefing love you, Christina.

571
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not beefing with Christina, are you? But you're

572
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: just whatever?

573
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 2: And thanks to you for listening stuff Nerve told you

574
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 2: the protection of iHeartRadio.

575
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, you can check out the

576
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: heart

577
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 2: Radio app, Apple podcast or regular listen to your favorite shows.