WEBVTT - Suzanne Lerner 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:06.960 I'm Sam Edis and I'm Amy Nelson. Welcome to What's 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:09.559 Her Story? With Sam and Amy. This is a show 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:15.400 about the world's most remarkable women, their professional and personal journeys. Together, 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:19.200 we'll hear from gold medalists, best selling authors, and leaders 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:22.840 of the world's most iconic brands. Listen every Thursday or 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:27.880 join the conversation anytime on Instagram at What's Her Story Podcast. 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:34.080 Susanne Learner is the president and CEO of Michael Stars, 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:37.320 the fashion essentialist company she co founded with her late husband. 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:41.080 She's an activist and a philanthropist devoted to running a 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:44.199 socially responsible business, and she's been doing it for decades, 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:47.320 far before it was cool. Susanne is also a board 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:54.280 member of the MS Foundation for Women. Who was Susanne 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:59.360 Larner before Michael Stars was built. That is a long story. 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:03.080 I grew up in a in a nice little suburb 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:06.600 that my parents could not afford in Chicago, and my 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:09.800 dad was a traveling salesman, so he would be gone 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:12.600 from Monday morning to Friday night. I was a latch 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:15.240 key kid with my two older brothers, and my mom 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:17.960 was a bookkeeper, but I used to help my dad 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:21.679 on weekends, so he sold jewelry and I loved being 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:25.399 with him, you know, checking the invoices and and sorting 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.720 cards and I just love that kind of thing. So 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:31.080 I just kind of grew up with these entrepreneurs. Even 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:34.640 though they weren't successful, they had that entrepreneur of spirit. 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:37.840 And then in high school, I got involved in the 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:41.600 political movements because it was anti war movement, social justice, 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:45.679 racial justice. Growing up in Chicago, this incredible movement. So 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:48.080 I started doing things like I was the type of 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:52.360 for the underground newspaper, and I went to demonstrations and 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:55.279 I was kicked out of school for wearing blue jeans 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:58.200 because at that time you could not wear blue jeans school. 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:00.920 So between that and demonstration and then my senior year 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:05.920 of high school, I decided to bus to a racially 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:08.520 integrated high school because I grew up in a high 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:10.799 school that had no integration at all. And there was 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:12.960 a program called Operation Wing Spread and I was able 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:15.280 to get on it. And this is after Chairman Fred 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:18.760 Hampton the Black Panthers was was murdered a month later 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:20.840 and I said to my parents, I'm going, and they 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:24.840 just could not stop me. They always really helped me 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:26.920 get to where I was going. They never really said no. 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:29.680 I think I was a very good salesman. Really, even 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:32.280 in that day, I could convince people. So I went 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:35.120 to the high school and I realized what the world 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:38.640 was like for other people. So I went to university 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:42.800 and dropped out and worked as a secretary. So I 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:46.079 had about a couple of years working for different companies. 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:47.959 Even in high school, I was like a Kelly girl, 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:51.200 and uh. I saved my money and I went off 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:53.680 to Europe by myself when I was twenty one and 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.320 spent three months there and realized I wanted to do 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:59.239 more traveling. So came back to Chicago, went to school, 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:03.560 and went off again, and I realized I really wanted 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:05.919 to see the world. So I saved my money again, 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:11.000 and I met an Australian guy in Greece one summer, 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:13.840 and I ended up going to school in France, and 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:18.200 then I moved to Australia on a fiancee's visa so 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:20.320 I could get a visa and worked there. And then 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:26.240 I traveled for two years overland, all through Indonesia, Thailand, Nepal, 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:33.760 India and experienced life so um. One day in New Delhi, 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.360 I wandered into a shop with a woman named Santo Sharma, 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:39.960 and I was kind of blown away because it was 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:42.840 a woman who owned an import export business. And we 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:45.280 started talking and we became friends, and I went every day, 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:50.080 and then she introduced me to some Americans and British 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:53.600 people who wanted to start a clothing company. And I 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:55.560 had not done that. I mean, I had been on 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:58.440 like the teen board for a department store, but I 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:02.119 had loved seventeen magazin Sean always was dealing with hand 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:04.400 me downs, but being able to put together outfits, you know, 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:09.160 embroidering blue jeans and in knitting sweaters. So I decided 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:12.880 to do it. And I had no idea what I 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:15.520 was doing. None of us had any idea. The designer 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:19.560 was British and she lived in Kabba, Afghanistan, making these 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:22.560 beautiful dresses. And we took an old Mercedes and we 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:27.040 drove up to Afghanistan. I remembers in between two wars, 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:30.560 and I ended up in Los Angeles with one of 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:34.520 the partners who was here Afghanistan and India to l 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:36.680 A like how did you get to l A? So 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:38.960 Roger Wong, who was my part one of the partners 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:43.559 had a art gallery here and he in this French 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:47.640 American named Alan, who had the money. We're friends and 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:51.960 we're importing beautiful jewelry, silver jewelry and sweaters from Morocco. 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:54.920 And so he called Roger. His car had broken down. 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:58.559 He said, Roger, I need a Mercedes engine. Roger bought 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:00.680 the engine, took it on a plane New Delhi, and 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:04.240 we all met and we said, we think we can 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:06.800 do this company. And Allen had the money, Margaret had 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:10.960 the designs, and Roger knew one person in the clothing business. 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:16.760 So I went home into Chicago, packed my trunk and 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:20.360 I moved to l A. And we started by talking 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:22.920 to this woman Lee that her name was Lee Walzac, 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:25.800 just coming back to me, and she rapped Casherrell and 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:28.919 she helped us so much with understanding the business. And 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:31.240 in those days, there were these big, big, big books 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:34.800 that had every single specialty store in the country, and 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:37.359 we just had we were so we were waiting for 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.839 our samples. We were getting ready to start. We we 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.479 you know, had our little business license. And then Margaret 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:47.480 and Allen broke up. They were boyfriend and girlfriend and 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.120 Roger and I then said, okay, now what are we 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:55.039 gonna do well. The prior to leaving, I had met 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:58.400 my plane had been delayed, and I ended up sharing 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:02.160 a took took back to New Delhi with this Italian 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:05.279 guy who said, I know these people in Old Delhi. 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:07.839 And we went into the shop and it was this 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:10.720 amazing company called Sader Silk, and they were making things 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:14.000 for Fia Rucci and all the Italian brands, and they 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:16.040 were very friendly, and I was very friendly and I 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:19.359 bought some things. So I said to Roger, I remember 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:21.920 these people. I'm going to send him a letter, and 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.200 I think you should just go back there and get samples. 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:27.680 So Roger took out his credit card, we put my 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:31.559 ticket on it, I got on a plane. I showed 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:35.000 up on their doorstep and they went, Susie, we just 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:38.360 got your letter this morning. We're happy to see you, 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.080 but we don't do business with Americans because we don't 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:43.760 trust them. And by the end of the day they said, 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:47.039 we're giving you a sample line and you just have 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:49.799 to pay for it. And so I got a sample line, 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:52.799 and I came back to Los Angeles and we called 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:56.840 the line Susie Wong for me and Roger, and we 0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:58.919 started going out. You know, in those days there was 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:04.200 big specialty stores like Contemplate Casuals and Judy's and Bullets 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:06.320 was here. There were so many department stores and you 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:08.640 could wander in on a Friday on the open by 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.840 date and they would just write orders. Business was so 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:16.360 amazing in the late seventies. So we got orders, and um, 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:20.640 I called my parents and I said, you did not 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:23.160 pay for my college. And I knew they didn't have 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:25.320 a lot of money, and I said, I know I'm 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.720 going to be successful. I need to borrow money. I 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:31.600 want to borrow here's the orders, and I want to 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.480 have money to pay for the orders. And they lent 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:38.600 me money. They lent me fifteen thousand dollars. So we 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:40.760 got the orders and I went back to India to 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:44.760 check production and we shipped it and we were making 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:49.160 some money. And then the end of the year there 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:51.720 was always quota with customs. You know, you could only 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:54.360 bring in a certain amount of goods into America from 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:58.760 a foreign country. And quota closed in November and I 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:02.320 hit We had a shipment sitting at the airport, so 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:04.960 it was like the end of the road. But what 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:07.360 we did was is when it cleared. I took the 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.080 goods in and then we went out again and resold them. 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:13.760 And I was packing boxes in my apartment, typing, typing invoices, 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:17.080 you know, four shirts, four little shirts in a box 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:19.800 with a separate invoice, you know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:24.000 But eventually it failed and we just could not do it. Well, 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:26.360 did you pay your parents back? That's the big question 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:29.400 in many many ways, but not that way. Starting a 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.520 business is really hard. Most businesses do fail. What in 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:35.640 you felt like you could call your parents and say, like, 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:37.880 I know I'm going to be successful, Like a lot 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:40.840 of young women don't say things like that. Yeah, and 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.120 especially I think the days I was in I was 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:47.679 a feminist and I felt I was powerful to accomplish things, 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:50.800 and I knew it wasn't going to be in regular 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:54.120 kind of things that women typically were doing in those days. 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:59.000 And uh, I think when you're have no choice, you 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.680 pick yourself up and you do things that you wouldn't 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:03.760 typically do. Because I knew what it meant from my 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:08.880 parents to say yes today, I understood um what it was, 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:12.720 and I just I was really lucky because they believed 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:15.200 in me. So what happened after where we left off. 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:20.280 So UM, I ended up getting jobs and UM first 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:23.280 job was at a little import company from India, and 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:25.559 I did everything I you know, I checked the bills 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:27.880 of lady. I would sit in the telex and write orders. 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:31.520 I was assistant to the owners. But I always felt 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:33.679 like I was failing up because I got fired from 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.959 that job. And I think the the owner's wife didn't 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:40.360 really like me, and I didn't quite understand that tension 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:44.560 sometimes between women and what was happening. And I think 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.600 I was powerful and I had an opinion and I 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:49.680 probably stated it and she might not have wanted to 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:53.160 hear it. So I moved to other companies. UM. And 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.000 then I moved to a company called Disco Jeans, Disco 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:58.439 and Law Disco Jeans, and I would sit there with 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:01.560 allocation of things, this high of orders and have to 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:05.520 decide who was getting shipped. Um, we have lots of 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:09.880 sales reps. I worked for two male sales managers. And 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:13.360 just last month I linked in with my old owner, 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:15.440 the owner of the company, and I said, do you 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:21.760 remember me? He said, blue eyes, curly hair, and respectfully aggressive. Oh. 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:25.440 I love that. That's actually my favorite new term. Respectfully aggressive. 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:30.600 This is amazing. Respectfully, how do people perceive you? Like, 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:32.880 how did people perceive you when you were in your 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:36.040 twenties and how you were doing things. See, you've always 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:39.280 been a huge salesperson. I mean since high school with 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.360 your dad, You've always been a salesperson. And I don't 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:44.800 think most people think of a designer as a salesperson. 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:47.560 And I don't think of myself as that. I I 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:51.640 see incredible salespeople, and I don't think that's it. I 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:53.720 think I believe in my product, and I have passion 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:58.520 and I'm nice. I think people weren't used to it. Actually, 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:01.280 a couple of weeks ago, my Nordstrom buyer, when we 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:05.199 first had Michael Stars, she told a story. She's a 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:08.960 black woman, and she said, you know, Susanne, you are 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:11.520 always nice to me. Just I would walk into a 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:14.600 showroom with twelve other Nordstrom buyers and people wouldn't look 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:17.080 at me, people wouldn't speak to me. And she said, 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:20.040 I had the biggest pen, I could write the biggest orders. 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:23.600 But she said there was something there. And so when 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:26.440 I came to her with the T shirts, she said, 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:29.600 I blough from you because of who you were, and 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:31.200 I didn't even know about the T shirts, but I 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:33.040 bloffed you because of the type of person you were, 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:36.160 and I had never she never told me that we've 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:38.520 been friends for thirty five years and I never heard 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:42.280 that story. So you know, it's really good. Always think that. 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:45.760 I mean, it always comes back to all your relationships 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:47.600 in your networking well. But I mean, I think that's 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:49.960 something that people don't talk enough about in business because 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:52.360 we're supposed to be like hard and fierce and everything, 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:55.480 but just being a good, kind person, Like, do you 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:57.600 think that's one of the things that had had defined 0:11:57.640 --> 0:11:59.959 your career? I think so. I think so. I think 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:02.960 that everybody always knows me as being honest. I mean, listen, 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:05.199 I can be tough when there's a lot of things 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.800 in the plate. I can be frustrated. I sometimes get 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:11.640 negative with people, and I kicked myself in the end. 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:13.880 I learned now to be able to apologize and talk 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.000 to them about it and explain the reasons why and 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:19.640 try to improve always. But I think I've ended up 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:23.840 being straight, a kind, honest but kind. I think you 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:26.120 always have to do that as a person sitting next 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:29.200 to you that's doing the task, whether they're failing or achieving, 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.480 and it's still a human being. And now a quick break. 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:38.880 So how did you launch Michael Stars? Well, from like 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:41.960 for about four or five years, I had grown my 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:45.360 two D square foot showroom to a three D fifty 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.400 square foot showroom and I ended up taking on a partner. 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:52.240 That particular week that Michael walked in my showroom. And 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:54.680 he walked in and he at this South African accent. 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:57.600 I kind of had met him before through one of 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:02.800 my manufacturers, and and um, he came in with the 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:08.000 line of Polly cotton sweatshirt shoulder padded printed with sweatshirts, 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:11.440 and the sweatshirts were really super ugly and shoulder pads 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:13.880 had just gone out of style, which I knew, but 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.640 the designs are really super cute. And I was single. 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.079 I had broken up with my boyfriend about six months before, 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.640 and I was determined to never be with anybody again, 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:28.320 and I was just so attracted to him. He was handsome, 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:33.520 which kind of made it easier and interesting. So after 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:37.040 three days of thinking about representing the line, I waited 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:39.200 until Sunday night. I remember this call. I was so 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:43.000 nervous because he was very convincing and I turned down 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:47.079 the line and asked him out in a date and 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:50.360 he was like, wait a minute, I don't remember what 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:54.680 you look like, and nobody turns me and just could 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:58.960 not understand it, and he said okay, and so we 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:01.199 made a date for two days later and we had 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:03.920 dinner and a bottle of wine and that was it. 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:09.040 And a week later he showed up with the hand 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:13.080 painted designs on T shirts and I said that I 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:15.880 can sell. And that's when we started. He had second 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:20.680 mortgaged his home. So I was the sales part and 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:24.200 marketing and designing, and he was the marketing and running 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:27.480 the business. And uh, it was there. It was there 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:29.640 every minute of our lives. And it was already called 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.160 Michael Stars. At that point it was called Michael Stars. 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.680 The original artist was a man named John Stars, who 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:38.880 was a volleyball playing her most of each resident that 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:42.320 used to sell them at little fairs, and Michael used 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:43.920 to buy them and bring him. He had a home 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:45.920 in Miconos, used to go to Miconos a couple of 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.320 times a year and his friends would He'd give them 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:50.640 away to his friends because everybody wanted them. So we 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:53.600 knew we had something, and I put him up. I 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.640 put him up in the showroom. Remember this little baby 0:14:56.720 --> 0:15:02.560 chew room and Fred Siegel, Bloomingdale, Barney's all walked into 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:05.240 my door and said, we want to buy those. How 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:07.800 do you think they knew where your door was? Those days, 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:10.920 people just wandered the halls and they kind of look 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:13.680 they were looking for interesting new things. In those days, 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:17.320 it wasn't as difficult, I think as nowadays, because people 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:19.200 don't do those kind of things. Even the trade shows. 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:21.880 There's fewer people walking around, there's fewer there's fewer stores 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:25.200 to sell to. What's the process today? Start a website? 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:28.280 I mean in terms of marketing, Start a website, get 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:32.160 some photos done, send an email, hope somebody's gonna look. 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:34.960 Use your networking. I use LinkedIn all the time. I 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:37.720 highly recommended. I will just reach out to people. So 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:41.160 you mentioned you know sustainability, and I think you've really 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:45.520 been a model as a leader in so many ways, 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:48.960 but one of them is that you've always you've always 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:53.960 included social impact and everything you've done very openly, long 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:58.840 before many CEOs would touch anything. How did you navigate 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:03.640 that we would all be charitable ourselves personally? Michael used 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:05.880 to read something in the newspaper. He cut it out 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:08.400 and sent a check, so it was it's been always 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:10.960 twenty years now. We started the foundation because we wanted 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:15.640 to give to organizations that my customers would care about. 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.280 And so basically it's like women and girls. I cared 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:22.800 about voting rights and um helping women change their communities 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:27.440 through government. So I was. I used to read Reclear, 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:31.120 you know, that magazine had was most political fashion magazine 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:33.680 out there at the time, and I found a little 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:37.480 clipping of an organization called Women Thrive. Women Thrive helped 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:41.040 train women in advocacy so they as a group could 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:43.400 get together and go to their governments and their towns 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:46.360 and their villages and make change. And that just appealed 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:49.040 to me so much. So I wrote them a letter, 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:51.560 I sent them a little check, and when I went 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:55.240 to Washington for another event, I called them up and said, 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:57.080 I'd really love to meet with you, and the woman 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:58.800 met me for breakfast. I don't know what I was doing. 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.560 I'd never said on a board. I didn't know anything, 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:04.080 and she said she started talking to me and I 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.679 started learning, and so later they offered me a position 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:09.479 on the board, and I thought, why do you want me. 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:13.080 I own a small company. I don't have the credentials, 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:16.119 and they said, that's why we want you, because you 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:18.920 have a real voice. And so that was my start 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:22.000 sitting on nonprofit boards, and through that and the foundation, 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:25.160 we started giving more and more grants strictly to grassroots 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:29.680 women's groups. We didn't go for the big, big organizations. 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:32.080 They have their own way of fundraising. We wanted to 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:36.240 go where our money had the most impact. Most fashion 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:39.400 companies are like churn and burn right. They come out 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.760 with a splash and then they disappear. One thing that 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.680 makes Michael Starr's unique is that you've had such staying 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:50.520 power and at the same time, you've never maybe at 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:52.840 one point you were the sexy object, you know, the sexy, 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:56.320 shiny object, but you've always just been a staple. Is 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:59.360 that part of your strategy or was that accidental. I 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:02.200 feel like we always tried to do things that were 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:06.399 on trend, that would last a long time, that was 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:10.440 a staple, and not things that were really trendy. I 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:12.560 think though, for the most part, it's because we were 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.360 a family owned company, and when I would see that 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:20.000 one product, like our our screen printed T shirts, nobody 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:21.800 wanted him. After a couple of years, we went to 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:23.840 one of our shows. I said, Michael, they're not nobody 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:27.399 wants them anymore. Put the booth up, and so we 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:29.679 had a little five by ten booth with that. And 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.560 in the meantime, I had been doing garment die T 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:35.400 shirts with French ribbon roses on it with my partner, 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:37.280 and I said, why don't we just do garment die 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:39.680 T shirts because we have customers asking for them. So 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.280 we had a little a ten by ten booth with those. 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:46.120 We got like five orders for the printed T shirts, 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:48.720 and everybody wanted the solid T shirts. So I think 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.240 over the years I really had the gift of knowing 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.560 what people want and what's going to be next. So 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:56.720 we've gone through a lot of transitions, you know, because 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.040 then we created our shiny object, the Shine T shirt, 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:01.320 which in the nine these kind of blew us up, 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:04.840 and our one size idea. I had a blue Shine 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:09.840 T shirt. Everybody has a Shine T shirt story, every 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:13.080 single person I meet. Now it's so funny to hear 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:15.720 these stories, and I'm telling you, they're all happy. My 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:19.560 first date, my first thing in college. I couldn't afford it, 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:21.399 and my mother finally I was able to afford it. 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:23.719 I said, do you still have it? Now? Their daughters 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:26.600 are taking them out of their closets. It's really it's 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:29.400 really wonderful to see it. What is advice you would 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:32.639 give to a younger woman kind of starting out or 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.000 a woman in her forties wants to pivot had You've 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:37.639 got to find what you're passionate about. I think a 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:40.159 lot of people were probably careers they really weren't happy 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:43.280 in and how to deal with especially these women in 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:46.760 thirties and forties that are having to redefine themselves and 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:49.560 what to do. So I think they just have to 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:52.320 go and search for it a bit. But it takes work, 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:56.280 and I think using again your networks of people who 0:19:56.359 --> 0:19:59.480 care like you care, you can find something. And I 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:02.520 know there's so many women that lost their businesses. We know, 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:05.760 I mean, what's the percentage? I mean there was a huge, 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:09.080 huge failure of so many women, and how do we 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:11.920 get those women back into the workforce and caring about things. 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:14.720 We were very lucky at Michael Stars. We um had 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:19.280 a furlowsom people, but we started making masks immediately and 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:22.239 everybody wanted casual clothing work from home. Clothing. So our 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:25.520 business actually exploded, and I had been self funding the 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:28.440 business for five years before. I didn't want venture capital money. 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:31.399 I wanted of Michael Stars as a woman owned company. 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:34.480 I just wouldn't do it, and that kind of helped 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:38.520 us survive that and be able to bring in people 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.879 who cared, who were committed, who are costly committed to 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:44.640 the mission of Michael Stars. Like what we felt about 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:48.240 women in the world inequality, I wanted women like that 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:50.119 working for me. And I have to say, we have 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:51.840 so many people that have worked for us for so 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:56.920 long they are now senior managers, directors, assistant managers of 0:20:56.960 --> 0:20:59.880 a warehouse. As woman, she's now my director of all 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:04.439 my warehouses. People have become controllers from being accounts payable. 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:07.280 I think you've got it. You've got it almost interview 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:10.080 the company you want to work for as much as 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:12.119 I'm interviewing you. You have to make sure it's the 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:17.679 right fit. And now a quick break, Suzanne. I know 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:20.640 that you and your husband ran the company together for 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:26.680 so long and then he passed away. What was that 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:30.600 like for you, both personally and professionally. It was a 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:35.280 long road. He was sick and we didn't tell a soul. 0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:38.520 He didn't want anybody to know, and then it was 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:43.680 getting more obvious. So I had that point four national 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:48.040 show rooms and we incorporated into Michael Stars, and I 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:52.920 joined the company officially full time, integrating everything and was 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:54.800