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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Trump has replaced his billion dollar

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Speaker 1: lawyer in the Georgia race with a normal corporate, white

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Speaker 1: collar lawyer. We have such an interesting show today, Rolling Stones. Nicki, mccannon,

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Speaker 1: Ramirez tells us more than we'd like to know about

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Speaker 1: everyone's least favorite Republican candidate, the Vake Ramaswami. Then we'll

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Speaker 1: talk to the New Republic Editor and chief Michael Tamaski

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Speaker 1: about Republicans new gambles with the dead ceiling. But first

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Speaker 1: showtimes the circus is Mark McKinnon. Welcome back to Fast Politics.

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Speaker 2: Mark the fastest. We have to talk really fast.

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Speaker 3: We got a lot to talk about.

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Speaker 4: Let's go.

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Speaker 1: We have a lot to talk about. Yes, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about it quickly. Republican Party. What's going on, man.

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Speaker 5: Well, what's going on on is that the eight hundred

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Speaker 5: pound guerrilla is still eight hundred pounds. Nobody seems to

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Speaker 5: be able to take him on, or you know, he's

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Speaker 5: just blotting out the sun. He probably made a wise

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Speaker 5: strategic decision by not going to the debate last night.

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Speaker 2: I don't think you think, oh yeah, how come.

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Speaker 5: I don't think the debate changed the equation at all.

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Speaker 5: I think he's still ahead by forty or fifty points.

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Speaker 5: And I think that had he been there, there was

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Speaker 5: only downside potential liability. And he just shows that he's

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Speaker 5: above the fray and that the whole thing is beneath him,

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Speaker 5: that he doesn't need to pay it any attention.

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Speaker 4: He can ignore it.

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Speaker 2: Right. He was like missing last night.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I just am curious, like you think that Trump,

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Speaker 1: even when Trump is not somewhere, he's still taking up

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Speaker 1: the oxygen.

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Speaker 5: Well, yes, and I think that what was clear was

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Speaker 5: that there were some candidates who had good moments, but

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Speaker 5: in order to beat Trump, somebody has to really consolidate

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Speaker 5: those voters who are willing to consider somebody besides Trump,

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Speaker 5: and nobody's doing that.

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Speaker 6: I think.

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Speaker 5: Be back Ramaswami, as I outlined in my Vanity Fair column,

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Speaker 5: I had the good night that I thought he would.

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Speaker 5: He exceeded expectations. He really dominated, especially in conservative media.

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Speaker 3: He's tearing it up.

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Speaker 5: I think he's going to get about by the I

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Speaker 5: think Nicki Haley had a terrific noight. I thought she

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Speaker 5: was really good. I'm going to write a column about

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Speaker 5: her now. But Tim Scott out a terrible night to

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Speaker 5: Santus was okay, but didn't do what he needed to do.

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Speaker 5: So there's nobody consolidating the votes in a way that

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Speaker 5: they need.

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Speaker 3: You now, listen.

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Speaker 5: I still think that it's possible that somebody could break

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Speaker 5: through in Iowa, that the deck can change, but nothing

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Speaker 5: in the debate last night changed the general equation that

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Speaker 5: Trump is just thumping the entire field.

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Speaker 2: You worked for.

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Speaker 1: Bush, you worked for McKay, and you've bitten around and

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Speaker 1: seen the Republican Party evolve, and I think very classily

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Speaker 1: stepped out of it when you saw it getting racist.

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Speaker 1: It feels like it's sort of pivoted from bad to

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Speaker 1: worse to worse to worse to stuck.

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Speaker 5: I haven't watched it evolved. I've watched a devolve into

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Speaker 5: something I don't recognize at all. One of the greatest

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Speaker 5: regrets that I have about Donald Trump is what he's

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Speaker 5: done to the Republican Party, which is just decimate any

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Speaker 5: vestige of what it used to be, remaking it in

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Speaker 5: his own cult image. But there's not an outs of

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Speaker 5: compassionate conservatism left, which attracted me across the ihill originally,

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Speaker 5: and so it's very depressing. I think it's going to

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Speaker 5: be very difficult for the Republicans to win a popular voter,

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Speaker 5: win a presidential election, given the way they've clawed their

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Speaker 5: way to the bottom.

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Speaker 1: Right again, that central tension of like the base versus

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Speaker 1: the primary voter is ultimately what has them on a

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Speaker 1: collision course with destruction.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think clearly so. And I mean part of

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Speaker 5: the feature of the Republican Party today is that they

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Speaker 5: don't seem to be looking ahead to the general election

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Speaker 5: at all. All they care about is the primary and

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Speaker 5: they're cowtowing to that Trump base.

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Speaker 4: And I think that, you know.

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Speaker 5: Gets them to thirty thirty five percent of the electorate

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Speaker 5: and then where do they go from there?

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Speaker 2: So let me ask.

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Speaker 1: You about climate change, because there are a few issues

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Speaker 1: like abortion, but I think of climate change is really

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Speaker 1: so it's salient for so many reasons. But you're in

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Speaker 1: Colorado right now. We had this very hot summer, We've

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Speaker 1: had hurricane in California. Like things are clearly not the

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Speaker 1: way they're supposed to be. You know, it's like a

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Speaker 1: Doctor Seuss book, right, Like we have upside down weather,

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Speaker 1: and you had this young conservatives saying like, even if

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Speaker 1: they obviously are funded by oil companies, this party cannot

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Speaker 1: get an even halfway decent answer on climate change.

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Speaker 5: I think below the surface, it's starting to break through.

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Speaker 5: And I've talked to, you know, people who are still

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Speaker 5: pretty active in Republican politics, and they say that this

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Speaker 5: issue is really roiling beneath the surface, and they recognize

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Speaker 5: that it's a big issue with millennials and younger voters

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Speaker 5: and that they've got to do something about it. It's

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Speaker 5: not like you're seeing it breakthrough in conservative media yet,

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Speaker 5: but I think it's it's poised to break through because

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Speaker 5: it's just undeniable. It's gotten to a point where you

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Speaker 5: just look ridiculous if you try and deny the science, right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's the thing. But they still did that

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Speaker 2: last night.

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Speaker 5: That's I'm saying. I mean, it still hasn't quite pierced

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Speaker 5: the veil of the broader conservative media. But like I said,

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Speaker 5: underneath the surface, Republicans are worried about it, and they're

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Speaker 5: talking about it.

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Speaker 2: They know it's a loser.

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Speaker 1: So like the closest we are seeing in this Republican party,

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Speaker 1: at least vis A VI. What we saw in debateland

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Speaker 1: the closest we're seeing to a normal Saine Republican who

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't ever vote for, but who occupies earthwand is

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Speaker 1: Nikki Hale.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. I thought she had a great night last night.

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Speaker 5: I'm going to write a column about her for my

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Speaker 5: next column from Nity Fair. I think she seemed like

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Speaker 5: the adult in the room. She not only took on Trump,

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Speaker 5: she took on the Republicans for spending, and then she

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Speaker 5: took on Ramaswami on Putin. She was tough, and I

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Speaker 5: think she said some difficult things that you know, not

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Speaker 5: every Republican is willing to say. And when she's at

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Speaker 5: her best, she's good. And she's been around. You know,

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Speaker 5: she's been around a long time, so she's she knows

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Speaker 5: the drill here and I think she's going to stick around.

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Speaker 5: And I think she's sort of the value card right now.

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Speaker 1: So let me ask you about Nikki Haley. So here's

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Speaker 1: someone who does seem like closer to the truth than

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Speaker 1: everyone else.

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Speaker 2: I mean, at this point, the math is not there.

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Speaker 1: Republicans still have the problem they had in twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 1: which is they can't consolidate you know, if you had

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Speaker 1: won anti Trump candidate, perhaps you could do this, but

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Speaker 1: you have eight Yeah.

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Speaker 5: But it's still six months to Iowa, and I was

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Speaker 5: going to be the whole game, really, I think, and

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Speaker 5: you know, I mean, I think a lot of people

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Speaker 5: were thinking that Tim Scott could be the guy to

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Speaker 5: attract those evangelical voters. But I thought he had a

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Speaker 5: terrible night and he's just not exciting anybody. So at

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Speaker 5: some point, I think voters, like the Santa's voters say, Okay,

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Speaker 5: well he's not lighting anything up. Tim Scott's not either,

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Speaker 5: so who's left and they started looking at somebody like

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Speaker 5: Nicki Ale And so it hadn't happened yet, but I

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Speaker 5: think it's got potential to do it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so interesting. This is a marathon, not a sprint.

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Speaker 1: Now that I thought about that, it made me really depressed.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, it seems like so much is happening

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Speaker 5: right on our windshield, but the reality is that we're

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Speaker 5: still almost six months away from Iowa, and those voters

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Speaker 5: a pay very close attention. They're very serious about it,

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Speaker 5: and they also famously make up their minds at the

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Speaker 5: last minute. You know, so this is likely that it

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Speaker 5: could change and change dramatically in the last week or

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Speaker 5: even the last couple of days.

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Speaker 1: So you could see a scenario where Republicans decide at

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Speaker 1: the end. I mean again, winning Iowa is not just positive.

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Speaker 1: We've seen that Democrats win Iowa and just go on

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Speaker 1: to do nothing. But you could see a world where

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Speaker 1: Trump is going and then they say, you know, for

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Speaker 1: indictments is for too many.

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Speaker 5: That's precisely the topic of a recent column I wrote,

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Speaker 5: work again for Vanity Fair, and I.

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Speaker 4: Call him ghost voters.

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Speaker 5: Trump ghost voters, which are I think there's there's something

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Speaker 5: going on out there right now, where in twenty sixteen

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Speaker 5: it was very unpopular for a long time to say

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Speaker 5: publicly that you are for Trump. I think just the

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Speaker 5: opposites the case now, especially in the Republican Party, it's

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Speaker 5: very unpopular to say you're not for Trump. He's the

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Speaker 5: tribal leader, he's under attack, and so people don't want

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Speaker 5: to say that they're not supporting him publicly, but I

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Speaker 5: think privately, especially if you're like an Iowa voter, thinking

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Speaker 5: very strategically about not whether or not you like the

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Speaker 5: guy or not whether or not you think he's being

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Speaker 5: unfairly attacked, but who can win in November. It's not

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Speaker 5: going to better between now and January, when we have

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Speaker 5: you know, possibly trials, but a lot of evidence that

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Speaker 5: we didn't know about and we'll find out more about,

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Speaker 5: you know, all the legal troubles, which under any scenario

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Speaker 5: are not going to get better, It's only going to

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Speaker 5: get work. And so increasingly I think what's going to

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Speaker 5: happen is there going to be public polls to show

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Speaker 5: that Trump is not going to be able to win

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Speaker 5: a general election. And as that becomes more and more evident,

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Speaker 5: I think that that's what could be a play in Iowa,

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Speaker 5: and Iowa voters will vote very strategically about them.

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Speaker 1: But are you worried that if that happens that instead

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Speaker 1: of Republicans picking a candidate that's more normal, instead of that,

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Speaker 1: they try to elevate at third party candidate to make

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Speaker 1: Trump the president.

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Speaker 5: You mean, if Trump doesn't get the nomination.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, people like David Zax and Elon Musk and that

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Speaker 1: crew and Steve Bannon decide that they'll elevate a third

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Speaker 1: party candidate.

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Speaker 5: I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility

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Speaker 5: that Trump could run as a third party, just out

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Speaker 5: of revenge if he didn't get the nominated, right, I

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Speaker 5: think it's entirely possible. He doesn't care about the Republican

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Speaker 5: Party and he could just do it direct the Republican

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Speaker 5: Party if he's not the nominee.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you see a world in which this

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Speaker 1: Republican Party is able to come out of this election

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Speaker 1: in anything but a heap of smoking ash.

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Speaker 5: Well, I've thought for a while that we're just gonna

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Speaker 5: have to burn it to the ground and start over

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Speaker 5: until Trump is no longer on the windshield and way

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Speaker 5: in the rear view mirror. But listen, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 5: if somebody like Nicki Haley breaks through an island, then

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Speaker 5: for some reason one in New Hampshire and rolls on

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Speaker 5: and somehow becomes the nominee.

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Speaker 3: I think that's a different.

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Speaker 2: Story, right.

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Speaker 1: The fundamental problem with that idea is and I also,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's a part of me which dreams for

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Speaker 1: a Republican Party that just becomes I may not agree

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Speaker 1: with them, but not all can.

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Speaker 2: Die if anybody.

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Speaker 1: Right, But it's hard to imagine that the GOP based

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Speaker 1: pivots at hard.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it doesn't look likely improbable at this point, So

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Speaker 5: maybe it gets burned down.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: George Conway, frequent guest of this program, often says like

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Speaker 1: they just need to go the way at the Wigs,

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Speaker 1: right obviously. Yeah, I mean, is there a world in

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Speaker 1: which there is like a fragmentation between the Trump Republican

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Speaker 1: Party whatever that looks like the the Vaks.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that's a possibility.

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Speaker 5: That it becomes a new sort of party under Vivek

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Speaker 5: you mean, right, or.

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Speaker 1: Know that they're sort of a populist party and not

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Speaker 1: as insane Republican party.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess so, I think that's possible. You know,

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Speaker 5: I think there are a lot of Republicans yearning for

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Speaker 5: the days of Ron Reagan and the compassionate conservatism of

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Speaker 5: George W. Bush, and Trump has just taken it completely

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Speaker 5: off the rails, and that rather than stick around and

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Speaker 5: try and find anything that's reasonable within that Trump arm

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Speaker 5: of the party, which is increasingly hard to do that,

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Speaker 5: they just say, well, let's just start over.

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Speaker 1: When we look at these indictments, it's funny because we

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Speaker 1: all saw them coming. But Trump has, you know, at

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Speaker 1: least to his supporters, done a good job of shopping

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Speaker 1: them as they're coming for me. Right, this is not

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Speaker 1: about crimes, but about me and about you.

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Speaker 4: They're coming through me to get to you.

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Speaker 2: Right. There's certainly a segment of his people that believe that.

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Speaker 5: Oh, a huge segment. That's why he's maintained the popularity

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Speaker 5: that he has.

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Speaker 2: I mean, how did this happen?

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Speaker 5: Oh boy, we're going to make this a week long podcast.

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Speaker 1: Do you feel like you can see a sort of

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Speaker 1: trajectory from Reagan to this?

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Speaker 5: Well, yeah, especially from the Tea Party to this, you know,

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Speaker 5: I mean, I think that's really where it started.

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Speaker 2: Say a little more about that, Well.

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Speaker 5: I just think you know that they're started with kind

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Speaker 5: of the Tea Party as a reaction to the quote

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Speaker 5: establishment and establishment Republican Party. Then it just clawed its

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Speaker 5: way to the bottom and it just got to a

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Speaker 5: point where, you know, the litmus test becomes just how

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Speaker 5: much you're willing to deny the obvious and the truth

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Speaker 5: and willing to adopt a lie like the election was stolen,

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Speaker 5: and that becomes the litmus test.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things that has been a little

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Speaker 1: bit interesting that I've read a lot of reporting on

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Speaker 1: and a lot of thing pieces on which I'm curious

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Speaker 1: to know your take on, is this idea that this

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Speaker 1: sort of affluent professional class went to the Democratic Party

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Speaker 1: left the Republican Party, and now the Republican Party is

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Speaker 1: largely trying and again this is not so true, this

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Speaker 1: is an overstatement, but I just am curious. What you're

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Speaker 1: thinking is that the Liberals have gotten sort of too

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Speaker 1: brahmin asque and that Trump has sort of is trying

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Speaker 1: to kind of pick up those working costs voters.

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Speaker 4: Well, he has.

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Speaker 5: Trump's whole appeal is and you look at his support

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Speaker 5: now it's almost entirely non college whites, which used to

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Speaker 5: be a base of the Democratic Party. So he has effectively,

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Speaker 5: you know, poached a lot of blue collar, working class

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Speaker 5: Americans to the Republican Party. The problem is, as you said,

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Speaker 5: you know, the sort of you know, the educated class

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Speaker 5: has abandoned the Republican Party in droves, and at a

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Speaker 5: certain point, you know, you ran into you ran into

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Speaker 5: a demographic cul de sac if you're only voters or

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Speaker 5: non educated whites, non college educated whites.

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Speaker 1: So there are a number of thesises as to why

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Speaker 1: that is. But is some of that because Trump promises

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Speaker 1: things that are maybe undeliverable, but at least their promise.

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Speaker 5: It happens because Trump hit a hinge point in history.

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Speaker 5: Almost every presidential election in our history has been you

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Speaker 5: know about people have endorsed a candidate who is willing

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Speaker 5: to embrace the future. Trump picked the lock on the

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Speaker 5: Hinge point of history to say, wait a minute, I

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Speaker 5: don't want to go forward.

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Speaker 4: I want to go backwards.

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Speaker 5: Things are moving too fast, technologies having too fast. We

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Speaker 5: have all these people coming across our borders taking away

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Speaker 5: your jobs. I'll take you back to, you know, to

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Speaker 5: a place where you were dominant in your culture, not

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Speaker 5: all these other people. That's the secret sauce of the

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Speaker 5: whole Trump thing. It's just we're going to go backwards,

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Speaker 5: not forwards. It's for your future, and a lot of

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Speaker 5: people are afraid of the future right now.

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Speaker 2: Mark, thank you so much for joining us. I hope

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Speaker 2: you'll come back.

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Speaker 4: I'm still a prisoner of hope.

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Speaker 1: Nicki McCann Ramirez is a reporter at Rolling Stone. Welcome

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Speaker 1: too fast Politics, Nikki Hi, happy to be here. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna say his name now because we've finally, after a

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Speaker 1: day and a half of saying.

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Speaker 2: It, figured it out.

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Speaker 1: Theveke, the Veke privs of Cake Vivike, and that was

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Speaker 1: this Morning's playbook. Viveke rhymes with cake the vecmentum. It's

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Speaker 1: like clomentum, except it's less meaningful. Let's just talk about

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Speaker 1: this man who came out of nowhere.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I feel like anyone who watched the

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Speaker 3: debate on Wednesday now knows the name vivike Ramaswami. For

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Speaker 3: most of this race, he's been a character within people

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Speaker 3: were closely following the Republican primary, and he's kind of

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Speaker 3: made a name for himself, as he very clearly demonstrated

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Speaker 3: during the debate, kind of going to bap for Trump,

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Speaker 3: marketing himself as this America first two point zero candidate

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Speaker 3: who's going to take trumpsm further than Trump. First off,

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Speaker 3: the most interesting thing about the vik Ramaswami is how

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Speaker 3: similar his campaign is right now to Trump in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 3: He is coming into this as an outsider candidate. He

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Speaker 3: is a largely self funded business like entrepreneur who is

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Speaker 3: using his own money to fund this campaign.

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Speaker 1: But I think that one of the most sort of

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Speaker 1: trumpy aspects of a vake is I developed a number

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Speaker 1: of medicines.

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Speaker 2: He said.

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Speaker 1: He shops himself as a scientist, but he's not a scientist.

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Speaker 3: Not really. I believe he has a degree in biochemistry

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Speaker 3: from Harvard, but the majority of his career has been

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Speaker 3: spent in like financing. He did run up until like

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Speaker 3: very recently, a biomedical company which developed drugs. But there

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Speaker 3: was really great piece in the New York Times that

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Speaker 3: I think came out last week that explored how Vivic's

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Speaker 3: role within the company was largely financial. He was pretty

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Speaker 3: much in charge of bringing in investments.

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Speaker 1: He had an Alzheimer's drug that failed, So the company

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Speaker 1: was Reyvant Sciences.

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Speaker 3: And the first clue which was pointed out in this

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Speaker 3: New York Times piece about his like financial corporate history,

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Speaker 3: is that the ROI in Royvant stands for return on investment.

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Speaker 3: So the first clue about what Vivike Bramaswami's attitude toward

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Speaker 3: his biomedical companies is it's in the name. It's about

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Speaker 3: return on investment. So he founded Royvan. The way the

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Speaker 3: company was structured was that they had like all these

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Speaker 3: smaller subsidiary companies which they would purchase out. Those companies

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Speaker 3: would develop drugs and then they try and put those

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Speaker 3: drugs to markets. The thing he was doing was buying

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Speaker 3: patents of drugs that had kind of been abandoned in development.

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Speaker 3: He'd buy the patents for really cheap comparatively and then

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Speaker 3: try and re developed them. So they took one of

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Speaker 3: those subsidiaries public based on a lot of hype around

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Speaker 3: this Alzheimer's drug, And what essentially happened is like shortly

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Speaker 3: after taking the company public, it had a great valuation.

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Speaker 3: They made a ton of money, The approval for the

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Speaker 3: drug was rejected, the company lost a ton of funds.

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Speaker 3: That specific subsidiary ended up going out of business, but

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Speaker 3: Royvant didn't, And the way that corporate structure was created,

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Speaker 3: Ramaswami was pretty insulated from a lot of the financial consequences.

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Speaker 3: He made a ton of money off Royvant. He made

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Speaker 3: a ton of money off these subsidiaries, and in twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty three he stepped down from the company to focus

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Speaker 3: on the campaign.

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Speaker 2: Right, that drug was not a success.

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Speaker 3: No, that drug was not. I think the most recent

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Speaker 3: count I've seen is that collectively they launched about like

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Speaker 3: six or seven like really high profile drugs to the market.

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Speaker 3: But he's not really involved in like the scientific development.

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Speaker 3: He's focused on the financial side. He also runs a

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Speaker 3: like investment fund. It's called Stride capital. He markets it

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Speaker 3: at as this like anti woke, anti ESG alternative to

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Speaker 3: traditional investment funds. It's backed by Peter Teal. Ramaswami's bread

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Speaker 3: and butter is financial services and like and fund raising. Right,

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Speaker 3: good skill to have coming into a campaign, right, A.

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Speaker 1: Good skill to have when you're coming into a campaign,

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Speaker 1: but does not make you a scientist. Yeah, And the

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Speaker 1: way he's selling it is a little bit sketchy, the

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Speaker 1: idea that he's selling himself as a scientist.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's dubious. I think he does have his degree

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Speaker 3: from Harvard, but he has a jurisd doctorate from Yale.

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Speaker 3: Outside of, you know, running the biomedical company, he's not

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Speaker 3: too involved in, like the hard scientist, the day to

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Speaker 3: day lab work, the development. One interesting tidbit though, is

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Speaker 3: he was on Ohio's kind of like he was like

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Speaker 3: a consultant and advisor on Ohio's COVID nineteen response team

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Speaker 3: during the pandemic. It hit bit that he, as media reported,

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Speaker 3: paid a Wikipedia editor to scrum from his Wikipedia page,

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Speaker 3: alongside the fact that he had received an educational scholarship

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Speaker 3: from George Soros's older brother, and as we know, George

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Speaker 3: Soros and anyone related to him as poison in Republican politics.

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Speaker 3: So it's one of those things that he kind of

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Speaker 3: postures himself in a certain way. If you dig a

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Speaker 3: little bit deeper into the beck Ramaswamming, you'll see that

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Speaker 3: he does kind of exaggerate some of his credentials. There

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Speaker 3: are some things he'd rather Republican voters did not know about.

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Speaker 3: And you know, it kind of goes the same for

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Speaker 3: any Republican candidate who's running at this time.

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Speaker 5: They all have.

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Speaker 2: Page It's true.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they all have things they want to hide

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Speaker 1: or to make themselves more trumpy. One of the ways

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Speaker 1: he sort of got popular was by saying that he

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Speaker 1: would immediately pardon drop. And the thing that struck me

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Speaker 1: about him was he also believes climate change is a

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Speaker 1: can plead scam, which seems like an odd thing for

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Speaker 1: someone with a science degree to believe.

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Speaker 3: I think it just goes to show kind of the

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Speaker 3: type of candidate that Swami is, and you saw it

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Speaker 3: last night in the debate. He's the kind of guy

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Speaker 3: who comes onto the stage with these like ready to

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Speaker 3: roll equips, like fast on the comebacks, but as soon

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Speaker 3: as he's challenged on kind of the substance of an issue.

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Speaker 3: And Nikki Haley had a really good dig at him

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Speaker 3: on Wednesday where she was just like, you know nothing

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Speaker 3: about foreign policy, and it shows he's not coming into

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Speaker 3: this debate with a lot of substance. I honestly don't

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Speaker 3: even know if he's coming into this debate with like

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Speaker 3: a realistic expectation that he's going to win the presidency. No.

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Speaker 3: I think he's trying to market himself into a potential

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Speaker 3: position within an incoming administration. There's a lot of talk

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Speaker 3: about like, oh, maybe Trump likes him enough to be

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Speaker 3: the VP. And I think Ramaswami's biggest role right now

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Speaker 3: in the twenty four prime Republican primary, especially as Trump

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Speaker 3: sees it, is as a way to wrap uck DeSantis.

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Speaker 3: And that term comes from a piece that my colleagues

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Speaker 3: Uslin and Adam wrote a while back about how Trump

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Speaker 3: advisors saw a conflict between DeSantis and Ramswami as a

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Speaker 3: potential way to kind of knock DeSantis down a few

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Speaker 3: pegs and sort of, you know, cacidly put in some

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Speaker 3: punches to Trump's primary twenty twenty four rival. But Trump

439
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 3: does really like Vivic. We saw late last night early

440
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 3: this Morning Time all blends together at this point that

441
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 3: kind of Trump on truth social sort of in his

442
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 3: view declared Ramaswami as the winner of the debate. And

443
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,640
Speaker 3: I think it's important to remember that in twenty sixteen,

444
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 3: when Trump was shopping out the VP position, looking for

445
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 3: someone to fill that post, he really needed to bring

446
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 3: in someone who would kind of bring evangelical voters that

447
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 3: were worried over the fact that he was a serial

448
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 3: philanderer and kind of a pig into the fold. Now

449
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 3: he doesn't need to worry about that. He's got a

450
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 3: very loyal base, and I think in my view, he's

451
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 3: looking now for a foot soldier, someone that, if push

452
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 3: came to shove, would do the things that Mike Pence

453
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 3: refused to do with respect to overturning the twenty twenty election.

454
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 3: And I think Vivek is making a very good case

455
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 3: for himself in Trump's view, particularly in what you said

456
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 3: about him not only declaring that he would pardon Trump,

457
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 3: but pushing other candidates to make that commitment to part

458
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 3: in Trump. So I think Trump sees him as a

459
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 3: potential option right now.

460
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 1: It seems to me like Vivek is not so different

461
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: than r f K Junior supported by this same people,

462
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: right tech bro candidate willing to say completely crazy things,

463
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 1: hates the federal government, doesn't believe in science, but somehow

464
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 1: has some science bona fides. Right r of K Junior

465
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 1: work for this environmental law firm, So they both have

466
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 1: a sort of similar gustall that appeals to a certain

467
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: kind of tech oligarch.

468
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I think the Vake very much came off

469
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 3: in the debate as kind of like I think the

470
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,439
Speaker 3: comparisons were like either a tech bro who's just like

471
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 3: trying to hit you with information that like he thinks

472
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 3: is going to go above your head, but you completely understand,

473
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 3: or like an intro political science level Republican who thinks

474
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 3: he does more than the professor. I think what you

475
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 3: pointed out that similarity between like the vacant RFK in

476
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 3: which they will make all of these claims towed out

477
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 3: their credentials, but they are easily disproven, and I think,

478
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 3: particularly in the Vac's case, he is the kind of

479
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 3: candidate that will make these statements like climate change is

480
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 3: a hoax, stuff about vaccine, sort of like even the

481
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 3: conspirator of the like semi conspiratorial stuff he says about

482
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 3: nine to eleven. Those will be very grabby moments for him.

483
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 3: They'll endear him to kind of that reactionary portion of

484
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 3: the base. And it's a similar phenomenon to any other

485
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 3: Republican candidate when they get pushed back, when people try

486
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 3: and fact check them, when people try and make them clarify,

487
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 3: they can go on CNN accuse Kaitlyn Collins in The

488
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 3: Atlantic of like misquoting them or whatever, and then the

489
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,880
Speaker 3: underlying issue will never be addressed because Republican voters don't

490
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 3: necessarily care that the underlying discrepancies be addressed, and they

491
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 3: wouldn't believe them even if they were so. Yeah, in

492
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 3: that sense, they're very similar.

493
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 1: That moment where Vivek refused to accept that he had

494
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: said this and then the Atlantic reporter actually had tape

495
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 1: of what he had said, felt very RFK Junior.

496
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 2: The other comparable I want to talk about for.

497
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 1: A minute is this idea, and we saw this in

498
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: the Democratic primary with Andrew Yang, and to a lesser extent,

499
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: I think of Marion Williamson is more cut from the

500
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: kind of Jill stein cloth and less from the outsider

501
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: tech bro candidate trying to get everyone excited. Or Andrew

502
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: Yang's another one where he sort of had a non

503
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: profit career. Maybe you know that same kind of dubious providence.

504
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 1: Do you think that there's a comparable there, Oh, of course.

505
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: I think what we've seen for years.

506
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 3: I think for a really long time, the sort of

507
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 3: tech sphere industry was seen as this like very liberal,

508
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 3: very democratically aligned institution, all these companies. Like to this

509
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 3: day you have the accusations against like Twitter and Facebook

510
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 3: and big tech interference and elections and censorship. We do

511
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 3: see a major push from sort of the conservative side

512
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 3: of the tech spheer to bring in their own money

513
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 3: into politics. Obviously, we saw Peter Teel who's been primarily

514
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 3: spearheading this effort. He backed JD Vance in the midterms,

515
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 3: got him into the Senate. We see him he personally

516
00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 3: has back some of Ramaswabi's companies. And I think the

517
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 3: problem here is that, particularly on the Republican side and

518
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 3: in this primary, there is not that deep of a

519
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 3: discussion of policy. We saw a little bit of it

520
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 3: in the debate, but Republican politics has sort of turned

521
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 3: into a race to see who can be the most reactionary.

522
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 3: You of course, have one or two outlies here and there.

523
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 3: I can talk about how Nicki Haley is doing for

524
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 3: yourself at Disservice forever. But I think the reality here

525
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 3: is that whatever sort of like big picture tech proposals,

526
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 3: tech visionaryism they're trying to bring into politics, it's absolutely

527
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 3: getting drowned out by this culture war reactionarysm that has

528
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 3: just completely dominated Republican politics for the last seven years.

529
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 6: Now.

530
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I hope you'll come back.

531
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 3: Oh my god, anytime. I love your work that much.

532
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: Mike Tamaski is the editor in chief of The New Republic.

533
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics, Mike Damaski.

534
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 4: Hey there, thanks for having me.

535
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,360
Speaker 2: Delighted to have you. So we texted a little bit

536
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 2: last night during this debate, and I mean, you've been

537
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 2: doing this.

538
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 1: You're not old, obviously, because we're all very young in

539
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: our twenties, but you've been doing this a while and

540
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: you've covered a lot of Republican whatever that was. I mean,

541
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: how much worse was last night than normal?

542
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 4: Disclosure?

543
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 7: First of all, Molly, I actually didn't watch the whole thing.

544
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 7: This is one of the advantages of becoming a boss

545
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 7: of a place is that you can ask other people

546
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 7: to watch it, right, right, But I did watch enough,

547
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 7: and then I watched some post chatter and read some

548
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 7: stuff this.

549
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 4: Morning, so I have the gist of it.

550
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a lot worse. And it's a lot worse

551
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 7: mainly because of the guy who wasn't on the stage,

552
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 7: because everything still revolves around him even though he's not

553
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 7: on the stage. And that moment, the defining moment to

554
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 7: me from what I saw, was when they were asked,

555
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 7: you know, if they'd support Trump as the nominee if

556
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 7: he was a convicted felon, and six of them raised

557
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 7: their hands, and DeSantis like looked around to see who

558
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 7: was raising their hands, like, you know, are we going here, folks?

559
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 2: Is ridiculous parents.

560
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, And then the other point I'd make is like,

561
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 7: people like you and me thought that Nicki Haley acquitted

562
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 7: herself well right by standard you know, definitions, she did.

563
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 7: But the Magel world is an inverse of the actual world.

564
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 7: So I suspect the winner was Ramaswami.

565
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny because it was on a panel

566
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: with Tim Miller and he said the exact same thing,

567
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: which is he said that Nikki Haley did really well

568
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: in the Bulwark Slack, which meant she was doomed. Yeah,

569
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: he hated everything. But Vaik said, so it's likely he's

570
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: the winner. What I did think was so interesting, which

571
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: is like, really the Republican elites die another death, was

572
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: that they are chosen candidate Ron de Santis.

573
00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 2: He might as well have not been on there.

574
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,719
Speaker 7: Yeah, a low energy performance to please somebody. It just

575
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 7: reflects the whole tenor of his campaign, which has been

576
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 7: low energy, which has been he doesn't know how to

577
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 7: catch fire. You know, it's really weird. Sometimes you see

578
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 7: these people who get elected governors, even of big states,

579
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 7: and they get on the national stage and you just

580
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 7: wonder how that person become governor. In his case, we

581
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 7: know how he became governor in the first place, which

582
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 7: is that Trump endorsed him, and he embraced Trump, and

583
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 7: he made that commercial with his toddler daughter building the wall,

584
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 7: and he eked out a narrow, narrow win against Democrat

585
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 7: Andrew Gillam. Then he won convincingly re election, but he

586
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 7: barely got in there in the first place.

587
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 4: And I think we're seeing.

588
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: Why it's such an incredible bit of sorcery. How you

589
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: see these conservative consultants pick a candidate and with no

590
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: interest in the sort of mechanics of how a candidate

591
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: gets elected.

592
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 7: In a case like his, where you know, you barely

593
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 7: win your first time, and then you know, you do

594
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 7: the things that he did, and he really did, you know,

595
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 7: take command of the state's stage, and he passed all

596
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 7: this striking stuff, disgusting stuff, you know, appalling, reactionary, neo

597
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 7: fascist stuff, but striking. He won reelection handily and he

598
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 7: had the last time I checked before this started, you know,

599
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 7: a good approval rating in the state. So you think

600
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 7: this is going to be easy. And we're Florida, and

601
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 7: we're one of the most important states in the country,

602
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 7: and we're a diverse state. And if he can be

603
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 7: at fifty six percent approval in the state of Florida,

604
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 7: we're doing a lot of things right and maybe over confidence.

605
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's talk about what it looks like. Now

606
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: we're in this sort of lull before the House comes back.

607
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: The Republican House is ready to shut down the government

608
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: because it's two thousand and eight again or whatever the

609
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: most recent government shutdown is. That crew is ready to

610
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: get out there. What are you watching in this run

611
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: up with this crazy.

612
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 7: I'm watching the reactions if there are any public ones,

613
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 7: which there aren't very many so far. Of the eighteen

614
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 7: House Republicans who represent districts where Joe Biden beat Donald Trump, eighteen,

615
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 7: it's a number that I would encourage all your listeners

616
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 7: to remember. The equivalent number on the other side is

617
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 7: I think five. I think there are five Democrats in

618
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 7: districts where Trump beat Biden, but they are eighteen, which

619
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 7: in this day and age, is a lot a lot

620
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 7: of crossover districts, and some of these people won their

621
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 7: races pretty narrowly, and Biden beat Trump by ten, twelve,

622
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 7: fifteen points. These people are really really nervous about impeachment,

623
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 7: about a government shut down, I presume, and all kinds

624
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 7: of things, because it puts them really at risk and

625
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 7: it puts them in a tough position. Ken McCarthy going

626
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 7: to ask these somebody who is representing a district that

627
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 7: Joe Biden carried by a dozen points to cast a

628
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 7: vote for impeachment of Joe Biden or to shut down

629
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 7: the government.

630
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 4: I mean, the.

631
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 7: Historical record shows us smallly as you know, every government

632
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 7: shutdown of this century anyway, or going back to the

633
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 7: gingrich Clinton in the mid nineteen nineties. Everyone shows that

634
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 7: the instigator of the shutdown loses in public perception, so

635
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 7: let him do it.

636
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: So this is like a trope that I feel like

637
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: we saw last night profoundly and we're seeing again when

638
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: we talk about the shutdown, which is this idea that

639
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: the base makes it impossible for this party to win

640
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: a general.

641
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 7: I hope that's right. I'd like to be more confident

642
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 7: that that's true than I am. It makes it a

643
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 7: lot harder for them to win a general. I don't

644
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 7: think impossible, because in twenty sixteen, Trump revved up the

645
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 7: base and he got a majority of the small swing

646
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 7: vote in the key states. But yeah, I'd like to

647
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 7: think that it makes it pretty close to impossible, because

648
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 7: these are two completely different masters that they have to serve,

649
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 7: and they're terrified of the base that they and Fox

650
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 7: News and the whole right wing media have built and

651
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 7: that Trump has built over the years. And you know,

652
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 7: it popped up last night in questions about federal abortion bands,

653
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 7: which many of them shied away from, a couple of

654
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 7: them embraced, and you know it'll pop up in discussions

655
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 7: about dobbs, about guns about all kinds of issues where

656
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 7: you know, all eight of these people, nine of them

657
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 7: counting Donald Trump, represent views that are held by a

658
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 7: quarter or a third.

659
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 4: Of the country.

660
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

661
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,959
Speaker 1: For example, a really important point that this Republican party

662
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: struggles with.

663
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 2: Is Dobbs right, abortion is popular.

664
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 1: Pregnant women being unable to get treatment is very unpopular, right.

665
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: I mean, like that's the sort of larger narrative as

666
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,240
Speaker 1: you have these women who are pregnant, who are having problems,

667
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,760
Speaker 1: and I think this is a failure of democratic messaging.

668
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: We can get into that more. But I was talking

669
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 1: to my Republican fifteen year old about.

670
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 2: Last night as when it does.

671
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: I said, you know, he's like, fifteen weeks is enough.

672
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 1: Just close it at fifteen weeks, And I said, like,

673
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 1: the people who are having an abortion at twenty weeks

674
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: are not having an abortion because they change their They're

675
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 1: having an abortion because that baby's about to die, or

676
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: because that mother is about to What's happening in a

677
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: third trimester abortion or even a late second trimester abortion

678
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: is all about like medical necessity and the.

679
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 2: Possibility of death.

680
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: I feel like Democrats have not necessarily articulated that well enough.

681
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 7: No I mean, they make a list of the things

682
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 7: that Democrats haven't articulated well enough, you know. But I

683
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 7: think most people know this.

684
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 4: You know.

685
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 7: I mean, you know, women know this, and they tell

686
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 7: their husbands and their boyfriends and their girlfriends and their whatevers.

687
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 7: I mean, you know, people, people know this. It's something

688
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 7: that the Democrats almost in a way don't have to say,

689
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 7: but they should.

690
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 4: I mean, how many.

691
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 7: Abortions are a third trimestero percent? It's really low, and

692
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 7: it's almost always in the case of a very dire emergency.

693
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 7: So the Republican rhetoric is just really misleading on this.

694
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 7: And fifteen weeks that's the moderate position, but most of them,

695
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 7: from what I saw, to embrace a six week position.

696
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 2: They but it's also like a loser for them.

697
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,760
Speaker 1: I mean, we just saw in Ohio special election where

698
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 1: that initiative overperformed by ten points.

699
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 2: I mean, that's completely crazy.

700
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, it's a big loser for them.

701
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 7: And if there's no recession and the Democrats can find

702
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 7: a way to drive home a positive and plausible economic message,

703
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 7: there's still a lot of cynicism and skepticism about that,

704
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 7: but they have time. If they can combine that with

705
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 7: a message about Dobbs, extremism, democracy, guns, all the things,

706
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 7: all the positions of Republicans take that are just really unpopular.

707
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 7: I think that can defeat the indifference about Biden and

708
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 7: concerns about his age.

709
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

710
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: I was watching a little bit of the Tucker or

711
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 1: Trump interview, and here's a guy.

712
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 2: He's three years younger than Biden.

713
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 3: He's not.

714
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 2: It's not like he's running against someone who's forty four.

715
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 7: I know, three years younger, and Biden's in better shape.

716
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 7: Biden goes to his house at Rehoba Beach and goes

717
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 7: for a bike ride. I was riding my bike past

718
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 7: Biden's how well, as close as you can get in

719
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,479
Speaker 7: June on his to rohoe of Beach. It's a great

720
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 7: pleasant place to RODGERR. Bick by the way, because it

721
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 7: can happen and it's by the ocean. But like, has

722
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 7: Donald Trump ever even been on a bicycle?

723
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: I mean I haven't, But yes, I agree. I mean

724
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 1: he's very fit, and he's clearly.

725
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 2: Very concerned with his health.

726
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 1: But it's also just like this, we're having this whole

727
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: conversation about you watch Fox, which I unfortunately did yesterday

728
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 1: before the debate after the debate, and like, you know,

729
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 1: there's all this, he's cognitively very impaired.

730
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 2: Have you met Donald Trump?

731
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 7: Yeah, well no, but I know what you mean. Yeah,

732
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 7: Actually I think I did meet him. I did meet

733
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:35,760
Speaker 7: him once at the Plaza Hotel many.

734
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,399
Speaker 2: Years ago during a taping of Home Alone too.

735
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: The other thing I wanted to talk to you, just

736
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: for a minute or two, was you know, Mitch McConnell

737
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: has all but disappeared from view. This twenty twenty four

738
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: cent a map is a bad map for Democrats. But

739
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 1: it's not a bad map for Democrats if Mitch McConnell

740
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: is a wall.

741
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that makes it a little better.

742
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 7: The McConnell's story is really fascinating, and we'll see one

743
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 7: of these days soon we'll see a big story about

744
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 7: that pop in the New York Times of the.

745
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,800
Speaker 2: Washington Post, perhaps the New Republic.

746
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 4: Maybe the New Republic. I'm thinking about it.

747
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 2: I don't know if we would talk to the editor.

748
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 7: But as for the map, the Democrats are almost certainly

749
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 7: going to lose the West Virginia Sea. I think shared

750
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 7: Brown can hold on. The guy who seems likely to

751
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 7: win the GOP primary in Ohio seems beatable to me.

752
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 7: I think Mark Kelly seems like he can hold on.

753
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 4: So it's just.

754
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 7: Hard to see a place where there's a Democratic pickup.

755
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 7: But you never know. I mean, and I'll close on

756
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 7: this point. I think while I worry about Trump being

757
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 7: re elected every single day of my life, I also think,

758
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 7: based on the guy I saw in that CNN town hall,

759
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,879
Speaker 7: based on these indictments, based on the likelihood of him

760
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 7: being tied up in courtrooms for much of twenty twenty four,

761
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 7: and the crazy kind of rhetoric he's using, I am

762
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 7: your retribution, he could lead that party to complete disaster. Yeah,

763
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 7: it's possible. I'm not predicting it. I'm saying it's very possible.

764
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:10,399
Speaker 1: I Am your Retribution seems like an insane little bit

765
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: of a messaging. Whoever helped him with that should should

766
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: probably I Vanka should probably not quit her day job,

767
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: whatever that is.

768
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 4: It's more like a Kim Gilfoyle line.

769
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:29,240
Speaker 2: That's right, Thank you, Mike TAMASKI, thank you, Molly a moment,

770
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 2: Jesse Cannon, Molly.

771
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 6: John Fast little Junior. He threw a little fit about

772
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 6: not being able to go into the spin zone after

773
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 6: the debate and have his way to promote his daddy.

774
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 6: Let's listen to this clip right now.

775
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 8: Trying to ban people from actually having discourse about politics

776
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 8: probably probably shouldn't surprise any of us, but that's what

777
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 8: it is. I've been told by all this and I

778
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 8: would be able to go in. So they said we

779
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 8: were able to go in, and they said they were in.

780
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 8: Now that we're here, and the candidate that.

781
00:39:58,239 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 9: Said you can't go in the spin room, they telling

782
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 9: me right now won't let me into the spin room.

783
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 9: They're telling him here works for security here, but they're

784
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:08,399
Speaker 9: telling him that I'm not allowed to go in there

785
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 9: because the candidates that they've been boosting while simultaneously trying

786
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,720
Speaker 9: to cut down Trump for the last what two years,

787
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 9: didn't perform as they had hoped. So they can have

788
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:20,959
Speaker 9: someone who can maybe be a representative of my father.

789
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 9: Just like a few weeks ago when I was canceled

790
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 9: after the first indictment, I was scheduled to go on,

791
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 9: and about five minutes before I'm on, I found out

792
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 9: I'm no longer on because apparently I wouldn't be a

793
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 9: great surrogate to talk about my father's indictment. Just so

794
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 9: we understand what we're dealing with here, so it shouldn't

795
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 9: surprise any of us. And it's also why Trump was

796
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 9: one hundred percent right to not go to this debate.

797
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 9: It's beneath him.

798
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 8: And when you know that you're walking into a setup

799
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 8: because of exactly these kinds of circumstances, you understand exactly

800
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 8: what's going on in mainstream media, even conservative.

801
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:51,919
Speaker 3: It's very hard.

802
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 8: I like to knock the one side, but I got

803
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 8: to call balls and strikes. This is no different than

804
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 8: what we see from the Democrats. It's no different when

805
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 8: we're seeing from the Fulton County DA when they're trying

806
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 8: to put a gag order on Donald Trump so he

807
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 8: can't defend himself in court proceedings, and more importantly, to

808
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 8: function as an intimidation tactic for anyone else who would

809
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 8: defend him. Where the DA there is then saying hey,

810
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 8: we're going to add you people to the indictment if

811
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 8: you take part in this. I don't know, guys, doesn't

812
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 8: wreak of democracy? All the people that have been screaming

813
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 8: that for the last six or so years, especially during

814
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 8: the Trump presidency, when I believe we had a lot

815
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 8: more freedom than we do now, or certainly since this

816
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 8: administration's taken over, are strangely quiet. But I guess we

817
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 8: shouldn't be surprised.

818
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 1: It's an interesting phenomenon being a NEPO baby, if you will,

819
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: and something that I have been afflicted by myself. What

820
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 1: I thought was so profoundly embarrassing about that clip was,

821
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 1: first of all, you know, he was like, I was

822
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: supposed to be on television and then they bounced me.

823
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,760
Speaker 1: But this is something that happens when you're on television.

824
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 1: This happens all the time. You get bounced from a head.

825
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: It's not a big deal, but it's particularly like, clearly

826
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:03,240
Speaker 1: this person has never encountered any thing even moderately close

827
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: to adversity in their lives. You know, because if this

828
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: is the worst thing that's ever happened to you, you're

829
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: in pretty good shape. But one of my favorite things

830
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: about listening to Junior talk about Senior is that Junior

831
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: is so uncomfortable with Senior, and it's so clear that

832
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: Senior has a very little time for Junior, that he

833
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 1: talks about him like he's a complete stranger.

834
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 6: You mean, calling your dad Trump is weird?

835
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 2: Call your dad Trump?

836
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 1: And I think more than that It just was such

837
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 1: an embarrassing moment and showed such a lack of a

838
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 1: sense of what you're like in the world, and for

839
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 1: that it is our moment of fuck Ray.

840
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 2: That's it for.

841
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: This episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,

842
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: and Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes

843
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard,

844
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

845
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:55,720
Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening.