1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: Quality times. 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 2: But Joseph Scott More, if. 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: You've read my memoir Blood Beneath my Feet, there's a character, 4 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:20,479 Speaker 1: and I say character, real person, my grandmother Curl, who 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: features quite prominently in Blood and because she did a 6 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: lot of my raising, and still to this day, there's 7 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: not a day that goes by I do not think 8 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 1: about her. And I literally mean that, and I've got 9 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 1: a photo of she and I on my mantle. But 10 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: she had all of these kind of I guess you'd 11 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 1: call them euphemistic terms that are I think they're kind 12 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: of unique to the South and particularly to Southern women. 13 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: And she'd say all kinds of things you know that 14 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: you would get a drift of it, you would understand it, 15 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: but contextually it seemed out of place. And one of 16 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: one of her sayings that she would always use, particularly 17 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: in the Deep South. Remember, you know, my family's from Louisiana. 18 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: We're Delta people. You know, it's always insufferably hot and 19 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: you just learn to live with. But if she ever 20 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: got too hot, and that was rare because she was 21 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 1: used to heat, she'd always say, I feel like I'm 22 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: smothering to death. Well, there's a lot to be taken 23 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: away from that. Smothering for most people, you know, means 24 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: that your airways being blocked and you can't breathe. 25 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 3: In south. 26 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: It either means that you're really hot or you're about 27 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: to cover something with gravy. But today I'm going to 28 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: take you on a little and we're going to learn, 29 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: hopefully I'll be up to the task about asphyxial deaths. 30 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body batteries smothering. 31 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: That's a big part of asphixial deaths, and they come 32 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: in all shapes and size as Dave. When you know, 33 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: you begin to think about how someone dies, and the 34 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: main element to this is the idea of depriving the 35 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: victim of oxygen at the end of the day, because 36 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: it is our life source, you know, It's what feeds 37 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: our bodies, it's what keeps our brain working. Certainly, our 38 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: lungs process at our hearts pump out that oxygenated blood. 39 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: Our bodies scream for it, and if that's disrupted in 40 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: the slightest way, then it's catastrophic. That's one of the reasons, like, 41 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: for instance, people that develop pneumonia, and we're talking about 42 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: a natural disease here where their lungs get really heavy 43 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: and they can't process oxygen the way they normally do. 44 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: It's a real, real problem. I think back to COVID 45 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: where they were so anxious. It seemed like every third 46 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: person was being put on a vent that would show up, 47 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: you know, with chess congestion, and of course that's almost 48 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: a death sentence. Everybody uses this term DAVE nowadays nuanced 49 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: out of all of the ways that people die from 50 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: a traumatic situation, I'd have to say that that asphyxia 51 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: or asphyxial deaths are nuanced because you can have them 52 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: in a variety of categories, and you know, just to 53 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: kind of give everybody an idea of some of these things, 54 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: there's multiple modes of asphix it. We have everything from 55 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: you've mentioned a couple of leaves. We have strangulation, and 56 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: that can either be manual, which means you know, by 57 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: the hands. You can have ligature as well, and interestingly enough, 58 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: physicians many times will call that mechanical asphixiation because you're 59 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: using a mechanism. 60 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 3: To do it. 61 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: You talked about a garrot with John Wayne Gacy. Did 62 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: you know that grotting was actually a form of capital punishment. 63 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: The French used it extensively in their colonies, and they 64 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: would tie a person to a chair and they had 65 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 1: a big twist that went on the. 66 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 3: Back of the chair. 67 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: It was like a gigantic key that was hooked to 68 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 1: ligature and they turned that thing around and around until 69 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: and this is in public, until the person was asphyxiated. 70 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 1: You have, you know, instances of judicial hanging, and of 71 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: course we still you know, have people that hang themselves 72 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 1: all the time. It's probably in my little slice of 73 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: the Pies of Death Investigator. It was just behind self 74 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 1: inflicted gunshot wounds as a method for people to end 75 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: their own lives. I think one of the reasons is 76 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: is that everybody owns a belt, everybody has pair of pants, 77 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: everybody has a shirt or a towel. I've seen people 78 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: commit suicide with a hair dryer before and not plugging 79 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: it in and jumping in the bathtub. I'm talking about tying. 80 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: And this was actually on an acute psychord. I got 81 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: called into this thing and they had this lady was 82 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: in acute distress. She was in a manic phase. They 83 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: were giving her drugs to calm her down. Things like 84 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 1: adavan and all that sort of stuff. And they left 85 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: her with a hair dryer and she went on the 86 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 1: other side of her hospital bed and tied the plug 87 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: off onto the top rail, you know those rails that 88 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: go up and down, and she wrapped that that hair 89 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: dryer around her neck so that when I observed her, 90 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 1: the hair driwer was hanging on the front of her 91 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:11,559 Speaker 1: body like a big pennant, and the cord was wrapped 92 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,559 Speaker 1: around her neck and she just sat down. And people 93 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: don't realize you don't have to be standing hanging yourself. 94 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 1: And that's a theme. That's a recurrent theme that you have. 95 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: So you know, we have you know, strangulations, hangings, hangings 96 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: can come about, and then you know, you can have 97 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: accidental hangings. Have a couple of those. A young kid 98 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: that was trying to entertain his younger siblings because his 99 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: mother was working as a prostitute in Atlanta and he 100 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: was left with him. He was I think he's this 101 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: precious child, was only nine years old, and he sat 102 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: his siblings in front of him, and he had a 103 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: batman mask that someone had given him, and he had 104 00:06:55,279 --> 00:07:00,799 Speaker 1: an old jump rope that he tied inside of a closet, 105 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: and this house was really old, so he could hold 106 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 1: on to the jump rope that was anchored on an 107 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: old clothes bar in there and swing out of the closet, 108 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: bounce off the wall, and swing back in. He kept 109 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: telling the kids that he was he was Batman, and 110 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: he got looped around that thing and he hung and 111 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: six headed in front of his siblings. And the only 112 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: reason somebody found out about it is this horrible neighborhood. 113 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: There was a little old lady that lived down the 114 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: street and she saw a three year old and it's cold, 115 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: it's like in February. Saw a three year old walking 116 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: down street only wearing a diaper and a t shirt 117 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: and she was crying. And she heard this child crying, 118 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: this in the middle of the night, and she just 119 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: happened to pop out there. And all this little girl 120 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: could say was, I can't remember the child's first name, 121 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: but he's sleeping. He's sleeping. And so she goes to 122 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: the house and kids still hanging, and other kids are 123 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: crying in the house. And so you know, I've had 124 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: kids on tire swings that have been hung by doing 125 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: the cabbage patch on top of the tire where they're 126 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: holding onto the rope. I think pendulums around their body, 127 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,119 Speaker 1: and that's a type of hanging. Have we drowning fits 128 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: into the category of sphyxial deaths? 129 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 2: Really? 130 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: Yes, Drowning is because you're replacing oxygen with liquid at 131 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: that point in time. So that is, in and of 132 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: itself an asphyxiation anything that replaces oxygen in the body, 133 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: and you have substances out there or chemicals that are 134 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: out there that are what are called oxygen deprivaants. I 135 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: recall having a young man that was engaged in something 136 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: we'll talk about in just a moment even further, he 137 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: was engaged in autoeroticism, and he was he was a 138 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: salesman and he is his first job. He was a 139 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 1: salesman selling halon fire extinguishers, and they use halin on 140 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: boats a lot. And it's odorless and it's colorless, but 141 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: it grabs the oxygen out of the air, binds with it, 142 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: and if there's a fire, it immediately knocks down the fire. 143 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: So if you're on a ship, these things will be 144 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: deployed and it jumps right down on the on the 145 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: burning fire and extinguishes it. It's not like foam or 146 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: anything else, and he was sniffing this stuff in order 147 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: to get a rush as he's pleasuring himself, and he 148 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: was found dead at his desk from halon. So you 149 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: have that carbon monoxide. You know, there's a number of 150 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: these agents, and then you have poison agents. There's classic 151 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: image of some of the Kurdish Kurdish occupants in Northern 152 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: Rock where you know Hussein had used seren gas, you know, 153 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: an entire village and wiped them out. Picture of mother 154 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: and and child, you know, hunched over. Then you have suffocation. 155 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: Suffcation comes in a variety of different different. 156 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 3: Ways. 157 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: You can have suffocation where it's almost a positional asphyxia. 158 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: The case that jumps to mind for me the most 159 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: in my career as a little kid whose mother again 160 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: was off with her boyfriend, left her two older children 161 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:32,439 Speaker 1: in charge of a ten month old I think the 162 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: child was a child got wrapped up in it, rolled over, 163 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: got wrapped up in an afghan, and the mother had 164 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: not put the side rail up, had not even attached it, 165 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: just pushed the crib to the wall and the child 166 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: inverted head downward against the wall and the mattress wrapped 167 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: in an afghan and couldn't break free. Well, that's a suffocation, 168 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: it's positional asphyxia, and you'll get those. A lot have 169 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,839 Speaker 1: drug addicts that fix on the toilet, heroin addicts because 170 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: it makes you so sleepy. I've had at least three 171 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: of those where they fall off of the toilet and 172 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: get in between the wall and the commode and again 173 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: their chest can't rise and fall, and they're so debilitated 174 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: by the drugs. It's just not happening. You have compression asphixia, 175 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: and that's anything that prevents your chest from rising and falling. 176 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: And believe it or not, there are a lot of 177 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: people DAVE that die in motor vehicle accidents. It WI 178 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: call them mvas die in motor vehicle accidents where yes 179 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: they're traumatized, but you get people that are pinned in 180 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 1: vehicles and their chests can't rise and fall, and they 181 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: will they will die as a result of compression asphixia. 182 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: I've had a number of those over the years. So 183 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: there's to talk about asphixial deaths and kind of how 184 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: they are examined and identified and that sort of thing 185 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: is a big part of our job. And you might 186 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: see evidence people always talk to me many times. One 187 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: of the big questions they'll ask, particularly if I'm going 188 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 1: on television to cover something, They'll want to know if 189 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 1: there were PETIKII, And generally that's a that's something that's 190 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: a common thing that you see, particularly in individuals being strangled, 191 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: because the blood literally backs up into the head, gets 192 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: into that soft tissue around the eyes and gorges that 193 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: area and those little vessels pop. Do you know who 194 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: else gets patiki? I dave that it's not associated with 195 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: some kind of asphyxial death. You don't take no idea 196 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: about it. 197 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 2: No idea. 198 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 1: People that are severely constipated, and that's no joke. It 199 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: actually happens. They'll get petiti and women in labor, Okay, 200 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: women in labor because of the strength. Yeah, And you know, 201 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: I have a very distinct memory of Kimmy, you know, 202 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: when she gave birth to Noah Loathies many years ago, 203 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: and her head, you know, she's turning red as is 204 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:11,079 Speaker 1: going on. 205 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 2: Does that last after you have the child? 206 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: It dissipates pretty quickly. Kim had one, I remember, and 207 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: that's horrible in that beautiful moment, but I remember wanting 208 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: to wanting to look at her eyes because I'd heard 209 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: that for years and looked at her, looked at her eyes, 210 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: and she had one tiny little PATIKII. I didn't mention 211 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: it to her because I thought that it would rob 212 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: the moment. 213 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 4: All these years, Kim has told all of her friends, 214 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 4: you know, right after I had Noah, Joe was just 215 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 4: staring so lovingly in my eyes. It's like the moment 216 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 4: that I treasured the most. And oh, it's a beautiful moments. 217 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:13,439 Speaker 3: You just can't you just can't escape at many times, Dave. 218 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: You know, with I've talked about all these kind of 219 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: modes that are involved in asphyxia. It's such a massive 220 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: category of death. I don't know that many people even 221 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: think about it at all, certainly, and I don't want 222 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: people to think about it. Let me think about it, 223 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: you know. I don't want to burden people with I 224 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: want to educate people. But you know, this is type 225 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: of stuff that we think about, you know, in death investigation, 226 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: and you know, you have all of these modalities that 227 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: will occur where in essence, you're depriving an individual of 228 00:14:55,720 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: oxygen and there's essentially m four categories where that will fit, 229 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: you know, that fit into this idea of of of 230 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: asphyxial death. So you've gotten multiple modes, but there's four categories. 231 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: Number one is compression of the neck. Compression compression of 232 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: the neck. It takes on a variety of presentations. So 233 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: we've we've got hanging. Then you've got non suspended ligature strangulation. 234 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: Most of the time that's going to come from a 235 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: homicide where people are, you know, using a ligature to 236 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: actually strangulate the person. You can have manual strangulation, and 237 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: manual is different from ligature. Manual is actually wrapping your 238 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: hands around somebody. Certain there's two types of man well, 239 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: there's actually probably multiple, but let me just give you three. 240 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: With compression of the neck, so if you think about 241 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: like an old movie where a guy's got on a 242 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: pair of black gloves and are approaching somebody with two 243 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: hands and they're coming at their neck, that's called throttling. 244 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: And you can either do that anteriorly on the front, 245 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: or you can do it posteriorly from the rear. You know, 246 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: think about all the creepy movies you've seen over the 247 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: years where some dark stranger comes up behind somebody and 248 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: grabs them by the neck and kind of chokes them 249 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: out like that. Then you have what's called a sea 250 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: clamp where an individual will come up and externally grab 251 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: the trachia. Of course it's external, but they grab the 252 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: trachia and they squeeze the trachia and that's where the 253 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: thyroid cartilage is. And this area of this kind of 254 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: cartilaginous body in the center where you know your tongue 255 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: is attached to the hyoid. You've got an Adam's apple there, 256 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: and they'll squeeze down on that particular area. 257 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 4: It's different for men and women when you're talking about 258 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 4: that specific area. 259 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: Oh, because I said Adam's apple. No, it's not really. 260 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: Women don't have as pronounced of the cartilaginous body that 261 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: gives the appearance of quote unquote the atoms apple. And 262 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: that's generally a pretty distinctive marker, you know, for men 263 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 1: versus males versus females, something you look for. And then 264 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: we have you know, what you may have seen on 265 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: in wrestling and with cops where they'll use a choke hold. 266 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,360 Speaker 1: And the choke hold is where you know you actually 267 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: if you binge your arm and it creates a v 268 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: and you put the person's trache right in the crook 269 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: of your arm, and you're squeezing, squeezing, squeezing them like that, 270 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 1: and you're in. It's not just the airway that's been compromised, 271 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: it's also the vessels that are supplying the brain. So 272 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,120 Speaker 1: you've got this this double action that's going on relative 273 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: to this, you know, the crushing of the airway or 274 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: the occlusion of the airway from external pressure and also 275 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: clamping down of the vessels. 276 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 4: When we see that, you know, in movies or TV 277 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 4: or professional wrestling. Yeah, is how long does it take? 278 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 4: I mean, when you get somebody in that kind of 279 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 4: sleeper hole, and is it reversible? I mean, if you 280 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 4: hold it for just a few moments, the person goes out, 281 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 4: you let them go and they return right. Yeah, but 282 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 4: how long? I mean, I'm not trying to figure out 283 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 4: how to kill somebody. I'm just curious. Is there a 284 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 4: point of no return? Or is it like standard or 285 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 4: different for everybody? 286 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 3: Standard? 287 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: It's not standard, it's it's different from everybody because a 288 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: lot of people, let's say you, well, let's just take 289 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:48,959 Speaker 1: an obvious example. You've got a grown man, it's got 290 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 1: a well muscled neck. Compare that to a small child 291 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: or a dominutive person. You know, it's it's more. And 292 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:00,479 Speaker 1: I'll give you a great example, and it says actually 293 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: goes to hanging. But if you ever take the time 294 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: to look at the conspirators that were all hung in 295 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: the old Navy shipyard of relative to Abraham Lincoln, they 296 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: hung them all at the same time. Okay, there's one 297 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: guy that's hanging in the captured image and his name 298 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: is Louis Payne, and all of them to a person, 299 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: with the exception of Louis pain had their head turned 300 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: to the side, which means that it snapped their neck. 301 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: Louis Payne, if you see pictures of him in life, 302 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: and some people say that he looks like a guest model, 303 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: you'll see what I'm talking about. Just go back and 304 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: google his name. Louis Payne. Okay, he's got a really 305 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,360 Speaker 1: he's very young. He's got a well muscled neck. When 306 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: they dropped him off that scaffolding, his neck didn't break. 307 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: He sat there and essentially it's fixated as a result 308 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: of ligature around his neck because his neck was so robust. 309 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: And you can see him standing or hanging fully erect 310 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: you know, like this while everybody else, their neck is 311 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: snapped and leaned over to one side or forward, and 312 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: they're all deceased. He ain't dead. And that really strikes me, 313 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: you know when I see that, and we're talking about 314 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 1: the atomical structures of the neck, how long can somebody last? 315 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 1: First off, you don't try it. No one should ever 316 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: try a sleep or hole quote unquote, because you're compromising 317 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 1: not just the airway, but you're compromising the croatis which 318 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,719 Speaker 1: lead up to the brain. And any compromise of that 319 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: oxygen flow to the brain is you're in an unrecoverable 320 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,400 Speaker 1: flat spin. You're going to wind up on a vent 321 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: in an ICU because you're absent oxygen. Cops they've tried 322 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 1: to keep cops from using it for years and years. 323 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: They used to use a nightstick as well, they would, 324 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: and they also an arm bar, and they got away 325 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 1: from that a long time ago. Where the bar of 326 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: the forearm, if you imagine your form is like a bar. 327 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 1: It's placed against the anterior neck and it creates that 328 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 1: compression on the neck where oxygen is not you know, 329 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: making it up to the brain. There was I think 330 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: it was what was it where they called a p 331 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: twenty four. I think p. Twenty four is the nightstick 332 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 1: cops used to use, and they had a lot of utility. 333 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: It had a separate handle on the side, and they 334 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 1: could take it and use it like this. One of 335 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: the things they would do. It's kind of a natural reaction. 336 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: They would take that old nightstick that had the handle 337 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: coming out of the side and they'd hook somebody with 338 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: it and then put their foot on the back of 339 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: their neck and pull up to get them to comply. 340 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: And of course that's you're asking for trouble, you know 341 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 1: when that happens. The neck is very fragile, the airways 342 00:21:54,960 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: very fragile. So you've got a variety of these, you know, everywhere, 343 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: from compression the neck to obstruction of the airway. You know, 344 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: it's why Mama tells you to chew your food. I've 345 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: had kids that have choked to death, you know, on 346 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,360 Speaker 1: hot dogs. I know it sounds like a fantasy or 347 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 1: you know, an old wives tale, but no, it does. 348 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 2: Happen to dreams. 349 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right, and the airway is cleared 350 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,199 Speaker 1: in that particular case. So anything. And you know how 351 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: many times Dave us a dad, me as a dad, 352 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: me as a grandfather, You is a grandfather? Have you 353 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: said the following words? Get that out of your mouth? 354 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 1: And then it's generally followed up by you don't know 355 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 1: where that's been, you know. And but you know, kids 356 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 1: will they explore the world through their senses and taste 357 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: and tactile, and they'll put stuff in their mouth. I 358 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: had a colleague of mine that worked a case involving 359 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: a golf ball where a kid had stuck a golf 360 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: ball and they couldn't clear the airway and they died. 361 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 1: I had a kid that choked to death on a 362 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 1: German cockroach in Atlanta, and when they tried to establish 363 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 1: the airway, they were trying to intubate the child. I'll 364 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: never forget this case as long as I lived. And 365 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: that was in a fhixial death. The cockroach had crawled 366 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: into the child's mouth, the house was infested with him. 367 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: He had gotten in the child's airway and child began 368 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: to choke. Child was I think like eighteen months old. 369 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,640 Speaker 1: And when the EMTs got there, they tried to intubate 370 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: the kid, and they destroyed the cockroach but left it 371 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: in place. And so when we dissected the neck, we 372 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: found the thorax, the little intentae the legs, and it 373 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: was one of the most bizarre cases that I had 374 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,880 Speaker 1: worked because it was so horribly tragic. 375 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 2: But that's actually an his fixial death. 376 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: It is an asphixial death. And so you know, after 377 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: you get through those two categories of obstruction and compression, 378 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: you have compression of the chest, which I kind of mentioned. 379 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: You know, if you have so much weight on top 380 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: of the chest that the chest can't rise. And father 381 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: there's actually a famous one of the famous executions from 382 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: Salem witch trial where the guy refused to admit that 383 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: he was a witch because he wasn't he'd been found 384 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 1: guilty and classic line, ultimate hero line. They began, the 385 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,120 Speaker 1: men of the community. They tied him down and began 386 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: to put stones on his chest, and the preacher that 387 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: was standing there said, do you confess to being a witch? No, 388 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: add more weight. They'd add more stones, and these these 389 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:47,919 Speaker 1: huge stones. It took like three guys to put them 390 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: upon them. Imagine like a millstone, that's about how big 391 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: it was. And they got to the last one and 392 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:59,199 Speaker 1: the guy that was running the show said, will you 393 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: now confess to be in a witch? And he looked 394 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 1: up and he said more weight, more weight, and that's 395 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: compression of the chest. And you can find people that 396 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,400 Speaker 1: will get in all kinds of odd positions that lead 397 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: to their death. That's a great example of it. I'd mentioned, 398 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 1: you know, drug addicts that fall off of toilets, people 399 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: in car accidents, this sort of thing. And I think 400 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: finally probably a very broad category is this idea. And 401 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: you could say that all of them are this. But 402 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: when we begin to talk about exclusion of oxygen, and 403 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: that is the environment in which you normally dwell, something 404 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,679 Speaker 1: has happened within this environment to deprive you of oxygen. 405 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: One of the things that one of to terrifying things 406 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: is like grain silos. Grain silows are first off, they're 407 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: very volatile, they can explode because of the gas in there. 408 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: But you also have individuals that, for a number of reasons, 409 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: will asphyxiate grain silos absence of oxygen, also inhalation of 410 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: the dust over a protracted period of time. I had 411 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: a guy, we had guys in New Orleans. There were 412 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: whole generations of families and this is not necessarily the 413 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: same thing, but just giving you an idea, there were 414 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: whole generations of families that worked as sand blasters Dave 415 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 1: and they sand blasted the Huey P. Long Bridge. It's 416 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 1: the longest road trestle in the world. And there's an 417 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: adjacent bridge that goes over the Mississippi River and the 418 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: thing is made out of steel and it's a constant, 419 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: ongoing job because the environments so harsh, and they would 420 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: always be sand blasted. Well, these guys, when we would 421 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 1: get them and they would be relatively young men, would 422 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: know their history. They developed something called silicosis, which is 423 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 1: deposits of sand in their lungs, and so when you 424 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: ran your hand over the surface of lungs, it feels 425 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,159 Speaker 1: very grand. And if you slice through that tissue, you 426 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: can actually see the little grains of sand that hadn't embedded. 427 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: So that's compromising the airway and it leads to an 428 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: exclusion of oxygen. Probably the most striking thing though, is when, 429 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: and we were mentioning this off air, you know, there 430 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: was PSA back in the sixties, and I don't know 431 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: if anybody remembers this, but they used to have these 432 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 1: horrible PSAs that would come out, just terrifying you, and 433 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 1: for good reason. And you hear children in the background 434 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: saying three, two, one ready or not here I come, 435 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: and it's the disembodied voices. And it was in some 436 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: vacant lot where they'd film this in New York and 437 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 1: it would simply say and I think it said don't. 438 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 1: And there were refrigerators that were out there, and what 439 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 1: would happen In the old days, these things didn't have 440 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: magnetic locks. Still, go to restaurants and you'll see the 441 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: big walking coolers that those handles that they pull on 442 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: those things they lock from the outside. Okay, now, now 443 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: they have an escape button that you can press inside 444 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: and it'll disengage. But these old refrigerators, kids would get 445 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: inside of them to hide. And the problem is is 446 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,959 Speaker 1: that while inside any oxygen that's in there, the child's 447 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: body is displacing that oxygen in cubic inches and the interior. 448 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: When you go to buy refrigerator, you look at whatever 449 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: store you're going to and they'll give you the interior 450 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 1: size and cubic inches that's how much air you have. 451 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,479 Speaker 1: And then once you've taken two or three breasts and 452 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: you've expelled carbon dioxide into that environment, there's nothing left 453 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: to breathe. And of course one of the worst things 454 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: that I can certainly imagine is being locked in what 455 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: would become you're coffin in life. I think we as 456 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 1: a race have, the human race, have tried to find 457 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: for years and years the most efficient way of depriving 458 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: someone of their life. We don't want it to be 459 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: messy or nasty, and for years and still to this date, 460 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: there are countries that still employ hanging as a means 461 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: to killing people. I saw an image from I can't 462 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: remember specifically which Middle Eastern country it was from a 463 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: few years back, where they had people tied to a 464 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: bridge with nooses and had them on top of a bus. 465 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: It's one of the most horrific things I've ever seen. 466 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: And these people are there with the ropes hanging loosely, 467 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: They're looking around, their hands are tied behind their back, 468 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: and the bus begins to slowly move and their legs 469 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: are trying to stay up with the movement of the bus. 470 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: And finally the bus pulls away and you've got multiple 471 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: people that are suddenly hung in spot there where everybody 472 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: can see. And of course there was a crowd that 473 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: had had joined to watch the spectacle. You know, asphyxiation 474 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: has been something that is on the menu. I think 475 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: for us as people for years and years, people knew 476 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: forever that if you can prevent oxygen uptake in a subject, 477 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: that it's going to lead to death. 478 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 4: Let me ask you about a couple of things that 479 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 4: I have made note of over the last several years 480 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 4: in the deaths of some celebrities. Joke sure with what 481 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 4: has been called or is called auto eerotic asphyxia? 482 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 2: What is it? 483 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 4: David Carriden comes to mind, and Michael Hudgens from an 484 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 4: excess the group, But there are others I'm sure that 485 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 4: have died from What is it? And how do people die? 486 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: Well, we have to first look at what the word 487 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: auto means itself. Okay, So auto erotic having to do 488 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: with sex, okay, and then asphyxia, And it's not meant 489 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: to be The practice is not intended to in someone's life. 490 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: It's there to enhance sexual pleasure and sensation. I think 491 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: that by the time someone gets to that point, I 492 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: don't know that many times people are afflicted by this. 493 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: They can't receive sexual pleasure any other way. It's something 494 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: that's done alone by themselves, you know, out of sight 495 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: of everybody else, and what's fascinating is that the cases 496 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: I've worked, and there's not a lot of them. A 497 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: lot of people sold people in investigations a bill of 498 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: goods when they started. There are seminars out there where 499 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: you can go and learn about the investigation of autoroticism 500 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: and why. I have no idea because it's not something 501 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: that happens every day. You know, once you go over 502 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: in a generalized course, you kind of get the drift 503 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 1: of what's going on. And I always thought that it 504 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: was just ridiculous, and it became to the point where 505 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: it's very salacious. I think that, over the course of 506 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: my career have actually genuinely handled four and that's over 507 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: a twenty year career, and so it's not it's not 508 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: as prevalent. I think that it's probably become more prevalent 509 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: because people talk about it, and you've got you know, 510 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: curiosity seekers out there that hear about it and they 511 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: want to experience it. Please nobody, try to. 512 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 4: Let me ask you something, Joe, because this kind of 513 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 4: comes to mind, all right. I wonder how many times 514 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 4: somebody was labeled as suicide when it was something other 515 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 4: than a suicide. It was trying to achieve this type 516 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 4: of joy and ended up in death. What brings that 517 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 4: to mind is the death of Michael Hutchins, where some 518 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 4: people said it was a suicide and it has been 519 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 4: pointed out no, it was autopia. 520 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: And he's he's again. When Hutchins died, he was not 521 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: a not a full suspension Okay, he was actually kind 522 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: of leaning forward on his knees with literature, you know, 523 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: around his neck. 524 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 4: Okay, wait a minute, now, is that a common because 525 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 4: that's something that came. 526 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 2: Up with Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah, mm hmmm is that common? 527 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 2: Not not touching me? 528 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 4: And what about wait a minute, I do not I 529 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 4: don't mean to shotgun this, okay, and I apologize, but 530 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 4: in my mind's I am thinking. 531 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 2: When I've thought of. 532 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 4: Hanging, it's always been hanging right, suspended in the air. 533 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 4: But Epstein, Hutchins, Robin Williams. 534 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:45,479 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Robin actually on a door. Yeah yeah he did. 535 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 1: And you don't have to be that. That's why you know, 536 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 1: we draw a line. Hanging is kind of a it's 537 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:53,359 Speaker 1: not a good term. 538 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 2: I like. 539 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 1: Suspension. If you if you're gonna DeLine it, if you're 540 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:03,280 Speaker 1: gonna use the word hang, suspension hanging versus supported hanging, 541 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,399 Speaker 1: and it kind of you begin to under it again 542 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: there's that word as nuanced. You don't have to be, 543 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: you know, someone that is suspended and hanging like a 544 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: judicial hanging off of scaffolding. And the purpose of judicial hangings, 545 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: if you will, back then, was to break the neck. 546 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 1: And for some reason, you know, like the executioner always 547 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: puts the nod on the left side of the neck. 548 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,800 Speaker 1: This is a practice that's done all around the world. 549 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: It was done in the Old West, it was done 550 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: in Great Britain. Great Britain made great use of hanging 551 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 1: because they're the ones that were responsible for hanging all 552 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,839 Speaker 1: of the Nuremberg Trial people. And they had one guy 553 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 1: and the guy was actually the executioner to the queen 554 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 1: and it was a multi generation job. I think it 555 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: went back three generations. 556 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 2: They wrote a. 557 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,320 Speaker 1: Great book about it. He would fly back and forth 558 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: to Germany and he gave detailed notes a three people today, 559 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: you know, and he kept a diary of it. But 560 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: that's that's meant to break the neck, Okay, Like at 561 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 1: the C C one, C two level where you're you're there, 562 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: you know, at the you know, there at the base 563 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: of the brain where you're into the primal brain where 564 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: you're shutting down the autonomic nervous system. But many people 565 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: that hang themselves and set out to hang themselves, most 566 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 1: of the time they don't break their neck. That's what's 567 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:37,800 Speaker 1: so odd about Epstein, is it Epstein? Epstein's hyoid was broken, 568 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:43,399 Speaker 1: which is generally something you never see it, never see 569 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: it in hangings. 570 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 2: But you do in strangulation, Yes, you do, because it's 571 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:49,399 Speaker 2: so high up in the neck. 572 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 1: It's superior to the leading edge of the of the 573 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 1: noose that has been fashioned. And not to mention that 574 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 1: he had other fractures in in his uh, the cartilage 575 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 1: of his neck as well the adjacent cartilage, and that 576 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,360 Speaker 1: that requires quite a minute force. And even if you 577 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: were to tie off on that bed, the second tier, 578 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: you know, because there were bunk beds in there, even 579 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 1: if you were to tie off on the top, you 580 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,800 Speaker 1: couldn't generate sufficient energy to create that kind of trauma 581 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:26,840 Speaker 1: with ripped up bed sheets or clothing. You know, I 582 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,640 Speaker 1: don't think I don't think you could. Michael Biden didn't 583 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: think you could. He was present for the autopsy. He 584 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 1: said that he didn't believe. But yet you know, you've 585 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 1: got these people now with the FBI. I think Bungino 586 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: and Cash Patel claimed that they have seen the video 587 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: and that they've they've said that this is a that 588 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 1: this is a suicide. I'm not going to believe it 589 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: until until that video, which will never be released, would 590 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 1: be released. I'm just not buying it. But yeah, you 591 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,879 Speaker 1: look at those cases, compare that to autoroticism. I kind 592 00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:04,800 Speaker 1: of went for the field. But with autoroticism, the rush 593 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 1: comes about. The way it's been explained is by the 594 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 1: deprivation of oxygen to the brain, so they will be 595 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 1: stimulated many times. In the old days, when you go 596 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 1: out on these cases, Dave, there would be open pornography, 597 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 1: like laying all over the floor and so that it's 598 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:26,840 Speaker 1: in an observable position, so that they're super stimulated sexually 599 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:32,320 Speaker 1: as they're looking at images. And then to complete the act, 600 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,400 Speaker 1: they will suspend themselves by the neck to deprive themselves 601 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 1: of oxygen and then touch themselves at the same time. 602 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 1: You actually have people that have it down to an 603 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,880 Speaker 1: art where they had one guy that used velcrow cuffs 604 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 1: velcrow bindings between his legs where he bound himself between 605 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,840 Speaker 1: his legs, used a dog chain to tie off on 606 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 1: to a door hinge in a hotel room. 607 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:03,239 Speaker 3: And. 608 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,360 Speaker 1: He could move his hands back and forth between his 609 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: legs and stimulate himself, and he had poorn everywhere. The 610 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:18,160 Speaker 1: real tragedy in that case, I think was the poor 611 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 1: little housekeeper that had found his body and daved this lady, 612 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 1: God bless her. She was from Guatemala. She stood maybe 613 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 1: five to one. I'll never forget this, and is actually 614 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 1: on Sunday morning, and the bat it was a micro tail, 615 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 1: if you've ever heard of those, kind of an extended 616 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,799 Speaker 1: state kind of place. When you open the door to 617 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 1: the hotel room, the first thing to see on the 618 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: left is the bathroom, like many rooms, and he's hanging 619 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,720 Speaker 1: from that hinge and he's nude. And this poor woman, 620 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 1: who could not speak a lick of English, was terrified. 621 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:55,760 Speaker 1: She had her rosary beads with her. And the reason 622 00:39:55,800 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 1: I know this is that when I got to the scene, 623 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:02,920 Speaker 1: she was huddled on the floor. She wouldn't sit in 624 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 1: a chair. She was just holding her rosary beads. She 625 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,360 Speaker 1: was praying and she was rocking back and forth. She 626 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: was like saying hell Mary's in Spanish and rocking back 627 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 1: and forth is so terrified her. And that's actually a 628 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:20,280 Speaker 1: response that you get because this is predominantly a male practice. 629 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:26,279 Speaker 1: There's only been a few female instances of this. One 630 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 1: of the first was this case case out of Germany. 631 00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:38,239 Speaker 1: It's generally male dependent, and you will have spouses that 632 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 1: have no idea that their better half is engaged in 633 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,399 Speaker 1: this behavior and they come home and they find an 634 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: individual suspended and dead worse. And I did have a 635 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,600 Speaker 1: case of this. They have a hidden area that they'll 636 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 1: go into and this one gentleman that I had was 637 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 1: in a garage area where he had a cubby hole 638 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,799 Speaker 1: behind the garage where it attached to the house, and 639 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,960 Speaker 1: he had, you know, like BTK had a rat hole 640 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 1: where he kept all of his memorabilia. Well, people that 641 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,879 Speaker 1: practice autoroticism, they have certain things that really stimulate them. 642 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,320 Speaker 1: This guy went into the space and they couldn't find him. 643 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 1: She thought that he had left, and then they had 644 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:26,359 Speaker 1: a bad smell in the house and they were able 645 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,480 Speaker 1: to go in and they found him suspended in there. 646 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:35,200 Speaker 1: He's wearing he's wearing fishnet stockings, he's got a silk 647 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,239 Speaker 1: plouse on, and he's wearing a wig and he's got 648 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 1: this rope around his neck and he had hung himself 649 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,840 Speaker 1: in there and there was pouring everywhere, and this is 650 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 1: something that had been ongoing. Another thing that you find 651 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 1: is they love to document to they'll you know, do 652 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,280 Speaker 1: videography of himself and go back and watch it and fantasize. 653 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,279 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's you know, but those cases are so rare. 654 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,759 Speaker 1: They don't happened with great frequency. You have far more 655 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:10,480 Speaker 1: suicides that occur with asphyxiation and that with a ligature 656 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 1: asphyxiation like that. And then of course, Dave, you know, 657 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,040 Speaker 1: as you'd mentioned, I can't remember which one it was, 658 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:21,840 Speaker 1: but you had mentioned particularly one serial killer that. 659 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 2: Had which one John Wayne Gacy? 660 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:24,240 Speaker 3: Yeah? 661 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, But what about you. 662 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:27,799 Speaker 4: Know something that you and I had talked of because 663 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 4: I made a note, but oxygen deprivation in serial killings? 664 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:35,640 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, what is is it? 665 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 2: Because it's like a you don't have to have a weapon, Well. 666 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,200 Speaker 1: Your hands are your weapon. I don't mean I'm not 667 00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,799 Speaker 1: being flippant by saying that. I know, but I think 668 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,719 Speaker 1: that these people that are involved in serialized homicide like that, 669 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,560 Speaker 1: it's a very primal connection that they have to the 670 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:59,839 Speaker 1: victim because they you know, if you stab somebody, there's 671 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 1: chance they're not going to die, all right. But just imagine, 672 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 1: if you view yourself as God almighty, which many of 673 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,919 Speaker 1: the serial killers do, you have the power over life 674 00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:15,399 Speaker 1: and death, and they can literally chook someone to death 675 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,879 Speaker 1: like this. I'll give you a great example. I had 676 00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:20,880 Speaker 1: a guy that only could say only he wasn't in 677 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,680 Speaker 1: the pantheon of serial killers where you've had, you know, 678 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 1: some people, you know they talk about Bundy, how there's 679 00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:32,000 Speaker 1: hundreds and all this. This guy killed six women, certainly 680 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:36,200 Speaker 1: enough to be qualified as a serial killer. But he 681 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:42,840 Speaker 1: used a garrot and he would he would rape these 682 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:51,000 Speaker 1: women and sodomize them. And he used a wire grot, 683 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,320 Speaker 1: and so what he would do, talking about the power 684 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,600 Speaker 1: of life and death, he would tighten it down on 685 00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,640 Speaker 1: the back of their neck, and when they were starting 686 00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:01,520 Speaker 1: to con he would loosen it and they would start 687 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,920 Speaker 1: to breathe again. And he went through this, so you 688 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,439 Speaker 1: would see multiple furrows on the neck where he would 689 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,680 Speaker 1: readjust the garade while he was doing this. And I 690 00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,680 Speaker 1: think that a lot of that pathology that you see 691 00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:19,680 Speaker 1: with with serial perpetrators has to do with that idea 692 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:23,320 Speaker 1: that they're God's or perceived themselves to be that way. 693 00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,160 Speaker 1: And you know, I think I shared this maybe on 694 00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,640 Speaker 1: an earlier episode. Out of all the series of serial 695 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,919 Speaker 1: homicides that I worked is four maybe five I can't 696 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,800 Speaker 1: recall now, you know, Dave, I never had a shooter. 697 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:40,319 Speaker 1: I never had a stabber, a cutter. Every single one 698 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,839 Speaker 1: of them were as fixial deaths and they were either 699 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:48,120 Speaker 1: with a ligature or manual strangulation. These are all individuals 700 00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:54,960 Speaker 1: that you know that did this. So it's I think 701 00:44:55,280 --> 00:45:00,200 Speaker 1: from a serial standpoint, asphyxiation is something where they gain 702 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:01,480 Speaker 1: great power with it, Dave. 703 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,040 Speaker 4: You know, it didn't occur to me until you were 704 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:09,200 Speaker 4: talking about that of them sending it down person thinks 705 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,720 Speaker 4: it's over, and then bringing them back and the terror 706 00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,920 Speaker 4: that would be struck in the victim all the time. 707 00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,880 Speaker 2: It just boggles the mind of what people will do 708 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:20,480 Speaker 2: to one another. 709 00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, there's another Yeah, there's another part of this too, 710 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,719 Speaker 4: about being exposed to noxious gas. 711 00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:33,120 Speaker 2: Is this how does that come into play here? 712 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:37,400 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, anything where you're dealing with the replacement of oxygen, 713 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:43,000 Speaker 1: probably what would jump to mind for most people would 714 00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:48,319 Speaker 1: be carbon monoxide association. And that's as a death investigator, 715 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,160 Speaker 1: that's what you're going to run into the most. And 716 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,319 Speaker 1: it can happen in I've never seen and I'm not 717 00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,280 Speaker 1: saying it hasn't happened in my life. In my practice, 718 00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,880 Speaker 1: it's never happened. I guess you could have homicide application 719 00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,600 Speaker 1: of noxious gases. I'm sure that that's something that has happened. 720 00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,040 Speaker 1: I never personally worked one that I was aware of. 721 00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:12,759 Speaker 1: Every time I've worked them, they've either been a suicide, 722 00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:17,000 Speaker 1: which I've had many generally it involves the car in 723 00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:23,279 Speaker 1: the garage with the windows now, or it has been 724 00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,960 Speaker 1: an accidental death where you know, I had one guy 725 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:33,360 Speaker 1: in particularly that reversed the fan, a family member reversed 726 00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:37,600 Speaker 1: the fan on the wall heater so that it actually 727 00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:45,680 Speaker 1: blew blew the waste gas into the house and it 728 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,120 Speaker 1: killed I think there were six six people in the 729 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:54,680 Speaker 1: house that died, you know, which is you know, beyond 730 00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,600 Speaker 1: anything that you can imagine. But you know, Dave, probably 731 00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,440 Speaker 1: the saddest case that I've worked of carbon monoxide. I 732 00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,560 Speaker 1: had a guy that lived in an old, old home 733 00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:10,000 Speaker 1: in New Orleans and it was one of these beautiful 734 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,239 Speaker 1: old homes. On the outside, it didn't look like much, 735 00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,200 Speaker 1: but the interior was gorgeous. And the folks that have 736 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,040 Speaker 1: been to New Orleans have seen some of these homes, 737 00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:18,880 Speaker 1: you're going to know precisely what I mean. It's got 738 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,400 Speaker 1: this ancient crown molding that goes all the way around 739 00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:26,319 Speaker 1: the interior, and the ceilings are all thirteen feet high. 740 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:30,520 Speaker 1: He lived in his house all alone, and he had 741 00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:36,480 Speaker 1: a driveway immediately outside of his bedroom, and he had 742 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,600 Speaker 1: an old truck that sat out there, and it was 743 00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,960 Speaker 1: up on blocks, didn't have any tires on it, but 744 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,560 Speaker 1: the engine ran. And Dave he had taken an old 745 00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:50,840 Speaker 1: fashioned glass cutter, cut a perfect hole in his bedroom 746 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:56,600 Speaker 1: window from the outside, put a pipe into the tailpipe 747 00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:02,440 Speaker 1: of this truck, hooked a dryer dryer vent, you know, 748 00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,040 Speaker 1: one of those expandable hoses that comes off the back 749 00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,920 Speaker 1: of the dryer to push the exhaust out. Had taped 750 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,759 Speaker 1: it down, put it into the window, sealed it with 751 00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:15,040 Speaker 1: duct tape, and went and laid down on the bed. 752 00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:19,040 Speaker 1: And after he had cranked up the truck and he 753 00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,680 Speaker 1: had gone into his bedroom and had these huge that 754 00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:23,520 Speaker 1: you can imagine. The doors in this room were huge. 755 00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:25,239 Speaker 1: There were two and they had gaps, you know, the 756 00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,120 Speaker 1: old houses always have gaps under the doors, and he'd 757 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,960 Speaker 1: taken wet towels and placed them at the base of 758 00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:36,920 Speaker 1: the door. And I remember this so vividly going out 759 00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,320 Speaker 1: to the scene. You know, suicides are always very tragic, 760 00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,520 Speaker 1: but this one in particular stuck with me. He let 761 00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,240 Speaker 1: that truck run and it wouldn't take too long because 762 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,080 Speaker 1: all that has to happen you cannot have a flow 763 00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:53,319 Speaker 1: of air. He knew that the oxygen in the room 764 00:48:53,480 --> 00:49:01,719 Speaker 1: has to be replaced with carbon monoxide. And when we 765 00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,840 Speaker 1: got the scene cleared and I came out and the 766 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,080 Speaker 1: guy was laying there, and he had been down for 767 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,200 Speaker 1: several days, so he was in the early stages of decomposition. 768 00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:11,920 Speaker 2: Dave. 769 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,880 Speaker 1: There were two black boxes that were laying next to 770 00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:20,480 Speaker 1: his body on the bed, one of us left, one 771 00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:27,000 Speaker 1: was right, and they were the cremaines of his wife 772 00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,360 Speaker 1: and daughter who had been killed in a car accident. 773 00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,719 Speaker 1: And he couldn't bear life any longer without them. And 774 00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,759 Speaker 1: he told all of his friends about this, you know, 775 00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,000 Speaker 1: and he had been just as you can imagine. It's 776 00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,360 Speaker 1: just crushing to him. And he wasn't a very old fellow, 777 00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,320 Speaker 1: and right there on that old bed, he associated himself 778 00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:54,799 Speaker 1: with carbon monoxide, the exhaust from an old truck. It 779 00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,920 Speaker 1: struck a chord with me, as do many of these 780 00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:02,400 Speaker 1: cases involved in asphyxia, because there's something so for some reason, 781 00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:07,759 Speaker 1: something so very intimate, something so very personal about each 782 00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:13,320 Speaker 1: and every one of them. Sometimes you're just absent to 783 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:16,799 Speaker 1: words to really describe what you've seen. But we do 784 00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,239 Speaker 1: know this in the world of medical legal debt investigation, 785 00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,719 Speaker 1: you need to be primed at all times to be 786 00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:27,439 Speaker 1: prepared to work these kinds of cases because they come 787 00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:31,399 Speaker 1: in all shapes and forms. That's why I recommend that 788 00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,359 Speaker 1: we stay in the morgue as much as we can, 789 00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,720 Speaker 1: we learn as much as we can, and we continue 790 00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,160 Speaker 1: to search out these cases to see where we can 791 00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:47,080 Speaker 1: improve As forensic scientist. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this 792 00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:48,880 Speaker 1: is Body Backs