1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: I sat outside the courtroom with her for about an 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: hour and a half, two hours, her asking me questions 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: and because we knew we didn't want to, as we said, 4 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: we can't just take this child if there's this mom 5 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,240 Speaker 1: out there who might be looking for a child or whatever. 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: But she showed up with a black guy and missing 7 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: front teeth. I was like, Okay, we're going to rescue 8 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: this child. 9 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 10 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, she was coming from hard timing. 11 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 2: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. 12 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 2: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, a father, an entrepreneur, 13 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 2: and I've been a football coach an inner city Memphis 14 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 2: and the last part it unintentionally led to an oscar 15 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 2: for the film about our team, it's called Undefeated. I 16 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: believe our country's problems will never be solved by a 17 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 2: bunch of fancy people and nice suits talking big words 18 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 2: that nobody understands on ceing in a box, but rather 19 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 2: an army of normal folks, us just you and me 20 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 2: deciding hey, I can help. That's what Erica and Troy Andrews, 21 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 2: the voices we just heard have done. First, suffering through 22 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,839 Speaker 2: a failed adoption, they put themselves through the process again 23 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 2: to rescue a child. It's a wild story of love 24 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 2: with twists and turns that would have led most to 25 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 2: give up, but not these two. I can't wait for 26 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 2: you to meet the Andrews right after these brief messages 27 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 2: from our generous sponsors, Troy and Erica Andrews. 28 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 4: How are you well, doing well? 29 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 3: Doing pretty good? 30 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 2: Y'all are pretty awesome, is what you are. I want 31 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 2: to know, Lisa, My wife and I have four children. 32 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 2: Their ages are twenty seven, twenty six, twenty five, and 33 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 2: twenty four. Oh wow, we got on city water and 34 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 2: it cleared up, but it was tough for a while. 35 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 4: Yeah. 36 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 2: And I've seen a picture of your family. What are 37 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 2: the ages of your children? 38 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 3: Well, currently now we have they're all girls. 39 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: We have twenty three, nineteen, and fourteen, and then probably 40 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: one of the little ones we're going to talk about 41 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: today she actually just turned thirteen. 42 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 2: Curly so. And this story today is about the unbelievable 43 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 2: giving heart that you guys have and how you felt 44 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 2: called to adoption. And we're going to get to that. 45 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 2: We're going to catch the listeners up. But I do 46 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 2: want to know something you guys. My father and mother 47 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: were divorced where I was four and my father passed 48 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 2: away three weeks ago and the time between I was four, 49 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 2: which is forty nine years ago intoday, he and I 50 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 2: had no real relationship whatsoever. And one of the toughest 51 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 2: days around my house has always been Father's Day. Even 52 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 2: as a father, I celebrated my own children, but I 53 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 2: always felt this sense of loss. And both of you 54 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 2: are from divorced families, and when did each of your 55 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 2: parents get divorced? 56 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 4: Were interestingly enough, we were you know, we're not the 57 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 4: same age. Eric and I were four years apart, but 58 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 4: we were almost the same age exact age one of 59 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 4: the divorce. When our parents got divorced, we were both nine. 60 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 4: So that was just kind of an interesting fact that 61 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 4: we found about found out about later, you know, after 62 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 4: we met each other and kind of got to know 63 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 4: each other, became friends and so. But it was a 64 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 4: little bit different because my dad, my dad was a 65 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 4: was a retired Illinois SA Police officer and he's still 66 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 4: around and he he he and my mom divorced when 67 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 4: I was nine and he left and Erica had the opposite, 68 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 4: So her mom left when when she was nine and 69 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 4: she was raised by her dad. 70 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 2: Did you guys, I had a real sense of I 71 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 2: was an athlete in school, actually lettered in six sports. 72 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 2: I was not really good at any of it, but 73 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 2: I was good enough to be doing all of it. 74 00:04:55,360 --> 00:05:01,359 Speaker 2: The athletic director called me a triathlete because I'd try anything. Yeah. So, 75 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 2: but I look back on it, and I'm pretty sure 76 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 2: my father played football and baseball and basketball because I 77 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 2: found some old clippings once in the attic, and he 78 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 2: was college good. And I look back on her now 79 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 2: and I'm almost sure that I was trying to prove 80 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 2: myself as worthy because I always wondered why my dad 81 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 2: didn't want me, and I wonder did either of you 82 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 2: ever have a similar feel that, you know, why doesn't 83 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 2: my parents want me? As divorce children? 84 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 4: Yeah? You know, we each have her, you know, Erica. 85 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 4: I'll let her address that for herself, But for me, 86 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 4: my dad was always was a good athlete as well, 87 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 4: and he was he was always around that. One of 88 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 4: the things that I would say about my dad that's 89 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 4: pretty amazing is, you know, even when he was on duty. 90 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 4: You know, I was a good, good athlete. I played 91 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 4: basketball and we had a very good basketball team. We 92 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 4: went to the went to State every year and uh 93 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 4: good football team, and he would he would always be 94 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,239 Speaker 4: at my games, but he would be in his uniform, 95 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 4: standing out in the hall. And so that was always 96 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 4: really nice. But it's still you know, I always kind 97 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 4: of had those uh you know, resenting feelings about him leaving, 98 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 4: about you know, something else in his life being more 99 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,039 Speaker 4: important than us. You know. It was really kind of 100 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 4: more of that. 101 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 2: I feel that, and I felt that I can identify 102 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 2: with that big time. 103 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, And so so for me, I had to It 104 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 4: really wasn't until I was in college that that kind 105 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 4: of flipped or flipped around on me in a pretty 106 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 4: radical way. And I saw Dad kind of a different light, 107 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 4: you know, as a person who had his own circumstances 108 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 4: that he dealt with in his life. You know. His 109 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 4: dad was a World War Two veteran and had a 110 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 4: very very you know, he was on the front lines. 111 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 4: I think he'd landed on Omaha Beach if I remember correctly, 112 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 4: And his job in the military was to lay communication 113 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 4: lines in front of the front. So he would sneak 114 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 4: out through enemy lines and lay the wires so that 115 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 4: they could communicate when the front moved forward. So he 116 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 4: had a very dangerous job. So when he got back 117 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 4: from the war, my grandmother got breast cancer and passed 118 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 4: away when Dad was thirteen. And Grandma was kind of 119 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 4: his light and Grandpa they were very close, and so Grandpa, 120 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 4: you know, ended up like he couldn't take care of 121 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 4: the two boys, so he basically gave the two boys 122 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 4: to a some people in town. And so really, until 123 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 4: I got later in life and really understood that Dad 124 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 4: did the best that he could kind of, he didn't 125 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 4: really have a standard normal childhood that we hope to 126 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 4: give our children as an example, he was very young. 127 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 4: I think he and Mom married when they were seventeen 128 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 4: and eighteen, somewhere around and there with a they were 129 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 4: pregnant at sixteen and seventeen. So I don't know, I 130 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 4: just I just saw him in a different light as 131 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 4: a man, and not on a pedestal, as a man 132 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 4: who was, you know, doing his best and had some failings. 133 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 4: And I couldn't I couldn't keep holding that against him 134 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 4: because it was hurting me and him and so but 135 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 4: that didn't happen for me until into college. 136 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 2: Really took no but and I get it, and the 137 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:59,119 Speaker 2: poor man sounds like he suffered some abandonment damage himself. 138 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 2: But the truth is, as an adolescent, you felt what 139 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 2: abandonment feels like, and much like I did as a 140 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 2: child of a divorced family. And I think it's safe 141 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 2: say what you said, you understood as an adolescent what 142 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 2: abandonment felt like. Yep, what about you, Erica? Did you 143 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 2: have those same feelings? 144 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: Things were maybe a little bit different in that I 145 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: don't know, I kind of put my mom on a pedestal. 146 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: She got to be you know, you always talk about 147 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: the Disneyland dad, you know, the dad that just kind 148 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: of shows up on the weekends. And it was more 149 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: I got to have weekends with my mom in the 150 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: bigger town because she'd moved to the city and so. 151 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 2: There, so she was cool. 152 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 3: She kind of was. 153 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: I mean, that is yeah, while all my girlfriends in 154 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: the you know, in the locker room, you know, were 155 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: kind of complaining and fussing about their moms. 156 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 3: You know, I thought my mom was my best friend. 157 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: But as I got older, I realized I didn't need 158 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: a best friend and a mom. I needed a mom 159 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: to be a mom. So that was maybe a little 160 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: bit different. But as far as trying to impress, even 161 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: with my dad was very I think, you know, he 162 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: loved my mom certainly was very hurt by her leaving. 163 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: But I definitely did pretty much every activity. They call 164 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: me a joiner. I did every activity, and I think 165 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: it was to get either my mom or my dad 166 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: get someone's attention, Like, you know, I'm going to do 167 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: everything from the play to sports to you know, band everything, 168 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: And I know where you're coming from, where you're just 169 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,439 Speaker 1: kind of you know, we tell a little girl, you know, 170 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: I'm twirling, like look at me and trying to get 171 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: that attention. But I do also think as as I 172 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: got older, I definitely saw the sacrifices, especially that my 173 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: stepmom made after she married my dad. I saw that 174 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: in a different light as I grew older and had 175 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: kids of my own as well. 176 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 2: So I've talked to adults of divorced families like myself, 177 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 2: and like we're talking about not families, adults that came 178 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 2: from divorced families when they were children, And you know, 179 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 2: it is very rare that I don't hear some of 180 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 2: the same conversation that we're having and also how that 181 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 2: experience and you know, whether you want to acknowledge it 182 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 2: or not, it is traumatic, So it's trauma. So that 183 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 2: same experience that are child experiences and the trauma that 184 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 2: they have when they're growing up, then as adults have 185 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 2: this interesting thing in common that I feel like, which 186 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 2: is I cannot imagine a scenario that I would abandon 187 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 2: my children or leave my family, no matter how hard 188 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 2: it got, because I know what that feels like, and 189 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 2: I never want to put another person through it. And 190 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 2: I'm just curious if you guys have that same mentality 191 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 2: as a result of all this. 192 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, we do, we do. And you know, for us, 193 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 4: it's funny, we said early on, it was just so 194 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 4: intense for us when we met that that look, if 195 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 4: we're gonna we became really we became very good friends. 196 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 4: Eric and I did before we got married. In a 197 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 4: very short amount of time. We had a lot in common, 198 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 4: and one of the things that we both said to 199 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 4: one another is, hey, you know, if we're going to 200 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 4: do this, then it's forever. 201 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 3: Divorce is not an option. 202 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: And we said, even in heated moments or arguments, that 203 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: that word will never be bantered about our home. 204 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it never has. You know, we're almost creeping 205 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 4: up on thirty eight. 206 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, thirty years next year. 207 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 2: Our thirtieth is this December. Oh wow, yeah, so it's cool. 208 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 2: All right, So this this show is an army of 209 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 2: normal folks. And what I'm trying to establish through this 210 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 2: initial conversation is this, You guys didn't grow up independently wealthy. 211 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 2: You grew up in a divorced households. You you worked 212 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 2: to get to where you were when you got married, 213 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 2: and you're just average folks trying to make a life 214 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,559 Speaker 2: who have decided that they're going to have a significant 215 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 2: commitment to one another that is everlasting and forever, no 216 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 2: matter what, because of the trauma and the pain you'd 217 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 2: experienced as a kid. Is that fair to set up 218 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 2: who you are as a couple before you start having children. 219 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, I would, I would say that's fair. I mean, 220 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 4: we we both came from very humble means, and you know, 221 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 4: we didn't even know what we didn't have to be 222 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:54,839 Speaker 4: honest with you, I mean, but you know we made 223 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 4: a commitment to one another and and uh, you know 224 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 4: that's never changed. 225 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 2: So awesome. So we got average Troy and average Erica 226 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 2: getting married, not a whole lot of money, which, by 227 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 2: the way, that was Bill and Lisa Courtney too. And 228 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 2: you start your life and you have Noah and you 229 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 2: have Sydney, and then you decide to lose your minds 230 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 2: and do something crazy and different. And tell me how 231 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 2: that decision came into play. 232 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: Well, it actually was put on our hearts before we 233 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: had children, oddly enough, really, yes, we were sitting at 234 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: a church and the lady had just gotten back from 235 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: an orphanage in Russia and was doing the old slide show, 236 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: you know, back when they had slides and not PowerPoint presentations, 237 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: and she was clicking through her pictures and sharing it 238 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: and I just felt the Lord kind of laid on 239 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: my heart and I just sat there just looking at 240 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: those those pictures and we got in the car. I 241 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: just turned to Troy and said, I don't know, I 242 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: just feel like, you know, if the Lord blesses us 243 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: and we have the means and we're able to like, 244 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: I just think we're supposed to adopt. And he said 245 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: I do too. 246 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 3: I felt the same thing. 247 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: And so even before we had children, the Lord sort 248 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: of planted that seed on our hearts. And then we 249 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: we had Noah and things were going really well, and 250 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: then I had a life threatening ectopic pregnancy and things 251 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: didn't go roll well there, but we thought, well, maybe 252 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: you know, now would be the time to adopt, and 253 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: then that wasn't the time, and then we had Sydney. 254 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 3: So they're four years apart. 255 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: I say, we got one in college at a time, 256 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: but it wasn't planned, and so then we had Sydney 257 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: and we still could not shake it, and we finally 258 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: just decided what did we Oh, we went to look 259 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: into international adoption and at the time, it just things 260 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: were very crazy. I think they had another Olympics back then, 261 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: and the time to actually get your referral and have, 262 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: you know, get the child in your home. Was that 263 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: going on three years and by that time Sid was 264 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: already like three or three or four. 265 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 4: I think, well we also, you know, it just and 266 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 4: I never could really shake that that. I was like, 267 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 4: you know, there's kids here that need that need a home. 268 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 4: I mean, there's nothing wrong with going overseas, and I'm 269 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 4: not saying that at all, but but I was it 270 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 4: just it just felt for me like, there's children here. 271 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 4: Why do we have to like go and you know, 272 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 4: figure out something overseas and bring some bring somebody here 273 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 4: when there's people here that need it. 274 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 2: And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But 275 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 2: first we really want to hear from you about what 276 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 2: the Army and other Army members have meant to you 277 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 2: and consider sharing it on our social media account if 278 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 2: you'd be open to sharing with us. If you're game 279 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 2: for this, ride us at Army at Normalfolks dot us 280 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 2: or call or text us at nine oh one three 281 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 2: five two one three sixty six. We'll be right back. 282 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 2: Tell me, tell me about the slides. You're in church, 283 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 2: the woman from Russia. What did your heart get pulled 284 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 2: by the pictures of these orphaned children? And what what 285 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,400 Speaker 2: grabbed you? What pulled your heartstring? Give us a give 286 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 2: us a pain of paint a visual of that. 287 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,360 Speaker 3: God. I don't know, I mean, I think all of that. 288 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it was just seeing that there's 289 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: children in this world that didn't have anyone, a place 290 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 1: to call home. And I don't know that because that 291 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: had never been on my radar before, Like I don't 292 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: this had never been on my radar. I don't even 293 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: know that there was one specific thing other than just seeing, 294 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: you know, their plight and just seeing that there that 295 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 1: there's how could how could it be there's children in 296 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: this world that don't have a place to call home. 297 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 4: Well, one of the one of the things that she 298 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 4: said to me that she that probably doesn't remember, is that, 299 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 4: you know, you don't you get to pick a lot 300 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 4: of things in this world and choose a lot of things, 301 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 4: but you don't get to choose who your parents are 302 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 4: or what situation you're born into. You know. So so 303 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 4: as it relates to not having, you know, or being 304 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 4: born with maybe into into a household that maybe can't 305 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,880 Speaker 4: raise you or whatever, you know, you just don't get 306 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 4: the choose that. So it's it's it's not just. So, 307 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 4: how can we help, you know, bring justice perhaps to 308 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 4: somebody who's maybe been del to hand that that they 309 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 4: had no say in and they didn't do anything wrong. 310 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:22,399 Speaker 2: You know, that's a beautiful thought. I've said a lot that. 311 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 2: It's not just that the possibilities of your success in 312 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 2: life is largely dependent upon the zip code at the 313 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 2: time of your birth. It's not just, but it is true. 314 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 2: And so we've got this on our heart. We've we've 315 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 2: had Noah, we've had Sydney. And then you throw your 316 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 2: name in a hat for a group of parents who 317 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 2: say we're interested in adoption, how does the process work? 318 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: Well, I'm after the kind of the chint I go into. 319 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: China just wasn't in the cards for us. I said, well, 320 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: maybe we're not called adopt but just support adoption ministry. 321 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 1: And I had a friend that was already volunteering at 322 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: a crisis pregnancy centers called Chrisis. It's the ministry actually 323 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: crisis pregnancy outreach, and I thought, maybe I'm just we're 324 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: supposed to support adoption ministry. So I started volunteering there. 325 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: I was a mentoring mom, where I would you drive a. 326 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 3: Pregnant mom to you know, doctor's appointments. 327 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 1: I would meet with her and have coffee and just 328 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: kind of be there and go to support groups with 329 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 1: her and just sort of be a mentor as she 330 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:37,360 Speaker 1: was walking, you know, through her pregnancy. And the CPO 331 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 1: also offered whether you made a placement for your child, 332 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: like made an adoption, made a choice for adoption, made 333 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: an adoption plan, or whether you chose a parent. 334 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,640 Speaker 3: They just they supported mothers. 335 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 1: And so I just started working there and then a 336 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: friend of mine got a call at about another child, 337 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 1: and it kind of just got the ball rolling, like okay, 338 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: so me maybe maybe maybe we should just put our 339 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: name in, and so we I made a book. You 340 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 1: know a lot of these adoptings you put together a 341 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: photo book or something to that effect. And so we 342 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: put our book in and actually very quickly got a 343 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: call that we had a birth mother that was interested. 344 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, and that birth mother is what turned into 345 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 2: your relationship with Carly correct. Yes, okay. This is where 346 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 2: it all begins. This is where this is. This is 347 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 2: where normal folks just creating a life step out and 348 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 2: do phenomenal loving work. And I'm gonna I'm gonna spoil 349 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 2: one of your lines right now, but when I read it, 350 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 2: I have thought about it all day, and it's when 351 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 2: you say, just find ways to be a constant for someone. 352 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,959 Speaker 2: And I thought about my own adolescence. I thought about 353 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 2: my own work that I've done, and then I've thought 354 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 2: about my own children, and I've thought about my employees, 355 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 2: and I've thought about my wife and how important it 356 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 2: is to do exactly what you guys say, which is 357 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 2: just find ways to be constant for someone. And in church, 358 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 2: it was put on your heart to adopt, and you 359 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 2: take some time and then you decide to go and 360 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 2: introduce us to your experience with Carly. 361 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 3: You want me, he's looking at me. 362 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 2: One of you have to tell me the story. 363 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I know I don't be such a better storytelling. 364 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 2: I don't know, But all right, Erica, take it, take 365 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 2: this important facts. 366 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,919 Speaker 3: Oh okay, and if I'm getting too detailed, let me know. 367 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: Well, I you know, we got this call that a 368 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: birth mom had wanted to meet us, and we met 369 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: the birth mom and I don't know. 370 00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 3: I'm I'm not sure I need to protect privacy or 371 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 3: any thing. But she we met her. 372 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: She had two small boys, already had a little bit 373 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: of a rocky relationship with the ministry, as she had 374 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 1: said she was going to place her second child with 375 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: them and then just kind of disappeared and that never 376 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: had never went through. So we but we met her, 377 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: got to know her and the boys. They were not 378 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: in so, you know, a good socioeconomic place in life, 379 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: and we tried to do our best to support and 380 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: help them. We babysat the boys and kept them, and 381 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: you know, I took her to doctor's appointments and did 382 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 1: different things. 383 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 2: Hold it you baby, sat her boys. 384 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, there'd be times when I don't know, she needed 385 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 1: things and and they. 386 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:51,360 Speaker 2: So you mean, while she's pregnant with your who's going 387 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 2: to be your adopted child, you're also caring for her 388 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 2: existing children. 389 00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, temporarily from time. 390 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 2: Is that normal? Is that what goes on? 391 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's if it's normal, but See 392 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: feels very big about open adoption and that they're advocates 393 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 1: for that, and so we kind of felt like in 394 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: the process of of of bringing Carly into our life, 395 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: we were also bringing her and her boys in some 396 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,360 Speaker 1: ways into our life, that they would be connected, there 397 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: would be relationship there. 398 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 2: Okay, we're going to get into the story. But like 399 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 2: I said, you're taking me along for a ride here. 400 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 2: But so you're not adopting just Carly. I mean, if 401 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:44,479 Speaker 2: you're if you're and I don't mean legally adopting these boys, 402 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 2: but you're not just bringing into your family's life, Carly. 403 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 2: You're bringing in with an open adoption. You're you're kind 404 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,360 Speaker 2: of bringing in a whole other group of people unto 405 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,400 Speaker 2: your family orbit here. I mean, you're you're reaching out 406 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 2: for deep right. 407 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, And it really was our heart to do that. 408 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 3: Like I saw her. 409 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: As a young mom who I also generationally had been 410 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 1: in the system and saw how her boys were living 411 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: and it wasn't in a great place, and so yeah, 412 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: we felt obligation is not the word, but I think 413 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: our heart kind of broke over those boys and thought, gosh, 414 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 1: if we're bringing their sibling basically, you know, into our home, 415 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: that and I wanted that to be. I wanted to 416 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 1: build a relationship with the birth mom. I mean, I 417 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: did believe in that and was hoping that our life 418 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 1: would be a reflection and be an influence on her 419 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: life as well. 420 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 4: Well, it's there's been That was definitely one time, but 421 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,679 Speaker 4: there's been several times where we've kind of looked at 422 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 4: each other and said, how can we say no? Yeah, 423 00:25:58,080 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 4: how can we say no? 424 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,360 Speaker 2: You know, you guys are better than me? Because I'm 425 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 2: pretty sure I might have looked at somebody and said, 426 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 2: how can I say yes? I mean that is a lot, y'all. 427 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 2: I mean that is a lot. So you're watching her 428 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 2: boys so she can do whatever she needs to do, 429 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 2: and your open adoption and you're being unbelievably selfless and open, 430 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 2: and yes, that's my narration of it, but that's what 431 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 2: I'm hearing. And she carries Carly to term right correct, 432 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 2: and what happens. 433 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 1: So it's kind of neat if someone has not been 434 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: through it that if you're adopting at birth the hospital 435 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: also if they have the room. They gave me a 436 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: room as if I was the one giving birth, and 437 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:48,640 Speaker 1: I got to have a room and. 438 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 3: Got to be very near where the birth. 439 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 1: Mom was, and I was there at the birth at 440 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: the birth mom's request, and actually was the one that 441 00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: cut the cord. 442 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:03,360 Speaker 3: When Carly was born. They treated me very similar. 443 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: I mean, she did see the baby and spent time 444 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: with her, but then Carly was in my room at 445 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 1: night and was with me in my room a few 446 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 1: doors down, and so it. 447 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 3: Was just a really we brought our girls in. 448 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: Noah, Sydney. I mean I think friends came. It was 449 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: you know, it was a very very joyous time. And 450 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: up until that point, I think to start prefacing the 451 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 1: rest of the story, you know, she had told us 452 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:33,120 Speaker 1: who she believed was the birth father, and we had 453 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,640 Speaker 1: some doubts about that for various reasons. And the other 454 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 1: guy that she had been quote unquote dating, his family 455 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 1: had been preparing for this baby. But she said, it's 456 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: not his, it's not his, it's this other guy and so, 457 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,159 Speaker 1: but when she was born, there were kind of a 458 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: few things that seemed fairly obvious that maybe she was 459 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: not telling the truth about the birth father. But and 460 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,959 Speaker 1: we let our attorney know. But when she had to go, 461 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: so I think was it forty eight or seventy two hours, 462 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 1: she did have to appear to kind of give sort 463 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: of a preliminary I guess custody to us. Not legal, 464 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 1: but just preliminary. And so our attorney said, I will 465 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: quiz her up one side and down the other to 466 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 1: try to get her to name, you know, who you'd 467 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: think is the father. 468 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 3: And she didn't. She kept with her story of this 469 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 3: other guy. 470 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 2: Well, why couldn't you just have a paternity test and 471 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 2: straighten that out all at once? 472 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: Good idea, Why didn't we why indeed did we know? 473 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 2: The pause? And then good ideas, says a lot Erica, 474 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 2: you know. 475 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 3: Not being the professionals. 476 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, we followed the laws of the state of Oklaholma 477 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 4: at the time, and so that wasn't that wasn't something 478 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 4: that they normally did. 479 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 3: This is who she named. 480 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 4: She once she went to the judge and said, this 481 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 4: is who the father is. That's who the judge thinks 482 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 4: the father is and so that's. 483 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 2: It where there's the possibility of a question when a 484 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 2: child's futures at stake. I don't know, common sense and 485 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 2: the law don't always necessarily agree, so we can move on. 486 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 2: The bottom line is, okay, we're she's convinced that this 487 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 2: guy is the father, and the judge takes this person 488 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 2: at her word correct, Okay, so what happens. 489 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 3: So then we things fine. 490 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: Were great for about six now five six months, I 491 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: mean we still we were doing open you know, we 492 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: were doing visits with the birth mom, with the family, 493 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: living our lives, sending out the birth announcements and just 494 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: you know, bringing Carly into our family, introducing her. You know, 495 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: that's our daughter, and this is who she was. And 496 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: she was not an easy baby at the time. 497 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 3: She was more of a. 498 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: Colligy, you know, kind of a baby. But she was adorable, 499 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,239 Speaker 1: into light full and we were instantly, of course, in 500 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: love with her. 501 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. 502 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 3: In the fall. 503 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,479 Speaker 1: She was born in June, and in the fall we 504 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: started hearing rumblings that she had that the birth mom 505 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: had had contacted the other guy and started making noise 506 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: about that she had actually had the baby. Originally she 507 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: had told that family that she had had a still 508 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: born and it was a boy. Like that there was 509 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: I didn't know that, yeah, that there was still as 510 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: a boy. But then she admitted, you know, I think, 511 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: just for the drama of it all, then started telling 512 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: them no, she had the baby, it was a girl, 513 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 1: and she had made. 514 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 3: An adoption plan and that was that. 515 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: Well, that family started bringing up the ministry found out 516 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: where I think where she so started calling CPO and 517 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: started making demands about wanting information and wanted to know. 518 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 4: And so we did eventually go get a paternity test. 519 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, so then yes, So then after that we had 520 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: our court date with the supposed the other birth father 521 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: or you know, the actual birth father, who was already incarcerated, 522 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: and so he was going to have to make an 523 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: appearance in December to come and. 524 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 3: What do you call what's fight? Fight? The fight the attorney. 525 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 4: So the way the way it works or did work, 526 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 4: I don't know if the laws have changed since then, 527 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 4: but yeah, when we did kind of find out that 528 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 4: we really do think that this other guy is probably 529 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 4: the father, we went and did a paternity test with him, 530 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 4: and sure enough, he was the father. 531 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 3: We didn't go do this attorney test. 532 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: We were ordered by the court to pay for the 533 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 1: paternity test for then incarcerated birth father that didn't show 534 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,479 Speaker 1: up for his court hearing, and the law says his 535 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: rights shall be terminated. But our judge legislated from the 536 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: bench because the birth father's mom somehow was in the courtroom, 537 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: stood up and was quite upset and said, we were 538 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: told the baby was dead. I think there was a 539 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: big emotional please, And to be. 540 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 4: Honest with you, I think you know, as you step 541 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 4: back away from it, I mean they were they were 542 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 4: told alive, Oh of course, and they you know, it 543 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 4: was just a it was just a horrible thing for everyone, Yes, 544 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 4: for them included. 545 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 2: I mean, y'all, I'm hearing this and I'm picturing you've 546 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 2: got an incarcerated father, a mother who is not equipped 547 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 2: and is also obviously dishonest, and you've got you two 548 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 2: guys who are trying to do things the right way 549 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 2: and to, as you say, find a way to be 550 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 2: a constant for a child who clearly left in this 551 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 2: environment wasn't going to get a constant. And all of 552 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 2: that's terrible. But everybody involved in that's adults and my 553 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 2: heart is bleeding for this child. Oh, this child that 554 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 2: has no idea what's going on, but it's caught up 555 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 2: in a quagmire of adult craziness. 556 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, that's that's exactly right. And that was that 557 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 4: was the horrific thing of it. So we were kind 558 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 4: of caught into a situation. I mean, the judge, even 559 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 4: the judge is like, look, you know, here's a birth 560 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 4: family who's saying that they were lied to. I you know, 561 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 4: like Eric has said, the way the laws are written 562 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 4: in Oklahoma is if notice was sent out to him, 563 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 4: proper notice was sent out to the birth father in prison, 564 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 4: he could have petitioned to be at the court, but 565 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 4: he didn't show up and so so he didn't well 566 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 4: but jail, right, yeah, yeah, but they'll he could have. 567 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: He had to pay seventy two dollars to be transported 568 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: and would have been able to be there, but he 569 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: chose he didn't make the effort. 570 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, he didn't make the effort or didn't have the 571 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 4: money or whatever it was. He didn't show up for 572 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 4: the court hearing. But his mother did and and she said, look, 573 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 4: he you know, we were lied to all of this, 574 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 4: and so he so he didn't rule as stipulated by 575 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 4: the by the by the laws of the State of Oklahoma, 576 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 4: which says that if the birth father does not show up, 577 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 4: the judge shall terminate. And so he didn't do that. 578 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,439 Speaker 4: He set up another court hearing and gave him more 579 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 4: time to get there, and we had to pay for uh, 580 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,919 Speaker 4: for paternity tests and for all that to happen, which 581 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:53,800 Speaker 4: you know, I mean, yeah. 582 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 2: That's it's hard because for the kid, at the end 583 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 2: of the day, that's just an irritant. That's not the 584 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 2: that's not the I get it. I mean it's like, 585 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,359 Speaker 2: you're not following the law. Now you're making me pay 586 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:09,239 Speaker 2: for a paternity test, and I get the frustration is 587 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:10,959 Speaker 2: just mounting step by step by step. 588 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was. It was hard, especially given this the 589 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 4: entire situation. I mean, the birth father was is a 590 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 4: nine time convicted felon. He's in prison, you know, and 591 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 4: he's got I believe he's served what two more years 592 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 4: or something like that. He finally got out and now 593 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 4: he's disappeared again and they haven't seen him since, so 594 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,720 Speaker 4: they don't even know where he's at. After how many years, 595 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,760 Speaker 4: ten years, he's. 596 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:45,760 Speaker 2: So how long at this point had Carly been your child. 597 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 1: The fraternity stuff that was through February, so from June 598 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: to February, and then the next the next hearing. 599 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 3: Was on May tenth, so she would have been almost one. 600 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 2: You've been there at the birth, You've nurtured in the 601 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 2: hospital room, You've gone through some months of colicky, crying baby, 602 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 2: which any of us have had children know how miserable 603 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 2: that is. And you've loved this child and she is 604 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 2: your daughter and has been for a year. And you know, 605 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 2: something else that we also got to think about is 606 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 2: Noah and Sidney now have a sister who they love, 607 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 2: and you've got this family building, and what what happens? 608 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,760 Speaker 2: What is the judge rule? What what ends up happening? 609 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 1: So when we drove into the parking garage at the courthouse, 610 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,360 Speaker 1: we prayed and we just we knew God knew the answer, 611 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 1: He knew what was going to happen already before we did, 612 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: and we just prayed that we would have the strength 613 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: to get through it and that we would great He 614 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 1: would give us grace and peace about it. So we 615 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,759 Speaker 1: went in and we had a few friends out out 616 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: there praying with us while they were inside, because really, 617 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 1: as just the you know, adoptive parents that aren't related. 618 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 1: We had zero rights at this point. It was all 619 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: about what was happening inside that courtroom, and we just 620 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:13,839 Speaker 1: had to wait and find out. 621 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, we did. We weren't allowed in the courtroom. 622 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,800 Speaker 2: At all, so we were nobody writing. Unfortunately's on the walls. 623 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 2: Your heart may not want it, but your brains probably know. 624 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,720 Speaker 3: It well, Troy did, I did, Yeah, I didn't. 625 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 4: I was just trying to prepare her for what I knew. 626 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 2: Was going to happen, and so tell us what happened so. 627 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 4: The judge, the judge would not grant our adoption, you know, 628 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 4: and uh, and so Carly was then thrown into a 629 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,399 Speaker 4: custody battle between the birth father's family and the birth 630 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 4: mother's family. Basically good grief. 631 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,799 Speaker 1: Yes, and we at that point I did have contact 632 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:59,439 Speaker 1: and had started to have conversations with the paternal side 633 00:37:59,440 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: of the family. 634 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 3: So it was two aunts and a. 635 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:06,320 Speaker 1: Grandma that were very, very interested in I think, having 636 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 1: Carly in their lives permanently, and so I did have 637 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,839 Speaker 1: some conversations with them, and ultimately there was we had 638 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:20,359 Speaker 1: to The judge did not like, like, strongly disliked the 639 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: birth mother because of this whole mess was because of 640 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: her manipulation, her lying, and so we ended up a 641 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: month about a month later, no not even that, ten 642 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:35,800 Speaker 1: to fifteen days, ten days later, handing packing up Carly 643 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 1: and then giving her. We had to hand her over 644 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 1: to the paternal aunt, so one of the sisters there. 645 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 2: I had to have been just that had to been 646 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 2: all that had to have been the most fearful. I can't. 647 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 2: I mean, when you bond with and raise a child, 648 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,359 Speaker 2: you were given your child away. I mean that had 649 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 2: to be just heart wrenching. 650 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was hard. 651 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 2: It was. 652 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 4: It's still hard, you know, so uh just kind of 653 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,120 Speaker 4: remembering all that again and it was hard. You know, 654 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 4: it's hard for us, but you know it's it was 655 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,880 Speaker 4: very very hard on Sydney, our mental daughter in particular. 656 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,839 Speaker 4: But I mean she we kind of had gotten her 657 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 4: to the point she was at the age where she 658 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 4: was sleeping in her own bed and everything. And she 659 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:29,479 Speaker 4: was always that girl that would run down the middle 660 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 4: of the night and get jump in the bed between 661 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,759 Speaker 4: us and sleep and keep us up the rest of 662 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 4: the night, kicking us in the ribs. But we had 663 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 4: her sleeping in her own bed for for really a 664 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 4: year almost and right after we gave Carly back, she 665 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 4: was right back in our bed again for almost another year. 666 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,920 Speaker 2: And uh, I mean it's traumatic. I get it. So 667 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 2: you go, you feel called to do this. You you 668 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,239 Speaker 2: put yourself out there and you don't only just care 669 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 2: for the child, you you actually care for the child's 670 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 2: birth mother and some and this thing happens and it's 671 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 2: gut wrenching and it interrupts your family and your your 672 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 2: your two daughters before and so you say, well, you 673 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 2: know what we did that let's move on. And so 674 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 2: you moved on and that was it, right, no more. 675 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 4: Well, we we actually got we we got a little 676 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,799 Speaker 4: bit involved in in you know, at the point that 677 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 4: we you know, we were no longer going to have Carly. 678 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,719 Speaker 4: We had no legal right to her, you know, we 679 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:42,360 Speaker 4: what we wanted to do is there was going to 680 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 4: be a custody battle between the birth mother's parents and 681 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,880 Speaker 4: the birth father's parents, and so at that point we 682 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,640 Speaker 4: just decided, okay, what's the best option for Carly in 683 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 4: this situation. And we got to make sure we really 684 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 4: felt that the birth father, even though the birth father 685 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 4: was incarcerated, you know, his sister half sister was in 686 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 4: a pretty good you know, she had a good job, 687 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:13,799 Speaker 4: she was a nurse, is a nurse, and you know, 688 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 4: she she had seemed to be the most stable situation. 689 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:22,919 Speaker 4: And the birth mother's family was a little more of 690 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:23,440 Speaker 4: the same. 691 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:23,719 Speaker 2: You know. 692 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 4: There was a lot of kids, a lot of you know, 693 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 4: a lot of really tough situation there, and so we 694 00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,920 Speaker 4: used to a lot of dysfunction. Yeah, a lot of dysfunction, 695 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:33,920 Speaker 4: that's the best way to say it. And we just thought, 696 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 4: then this place, the birth the birth father's family, is 697 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,319 Speaker 4: the best place for her. So we helped pay some 698 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,319 Speaker 4: of the legal bills to make sure that that's where 699 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 4: she was. And because they didn't have they didn't have 700 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,239 Speaker 4: good legal counsel to fight a. 701 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,320 Speaker 2: Battle that is so selfless, but I get it, because 702 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,719 Speaker 2: you're doing the best you can for your daughter, and 703 00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 2: even though she's not going to live with you, she 704 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,359 Speaker 2: should call her. So you're doing the best you can 705 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:02,200 Speaker 2: to take care of her. 706 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 1: Yes, And that was you know, a few weeks after 707 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,160 Speaker 1: we handed her over, I really struggled because I thought 708 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 1: there is a socio economic difference and I and there 709 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 1: were a lot of differences, but I really thought, how 710 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 1: are we going to keep relationship with her, Like, how 711 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 1: is this going to hurt her or help her? For 712 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,879 Speaker 1: us to stay as a part of her life. And 713 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,319 Speaker 1: believe me, I think it would have been a lot 714 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,719 Speaker 1: easier for us to have just wiped our hands of 715 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,680 Speaker 1: it and walked away. But I think you are alluding 716 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 1: to your kind of spoiling the punchline a little bit. 717 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,320 Speaker 1: I called a good friend of mine from high school 718 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,040 Speaker 1: that was that as a child psychologist and just said, 719 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,759 Speaker 1: what do we do? I mean, you know, do we 720 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:50,000 Speaker 1: just walk away? The family wanted us to stay. The 721 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,359 Speaker 1: paternal family wanted us. 722 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,960 Speaker 4: To say, best thing for us to do if we 723 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:55,440 Speaker 4: stay in our life? Are we going to make it 724 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,440 Speaker 4: more difficult? Or do we need to stay in our life? 725 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 4: I mean, we don't want to hurt her anymore than 726 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,200 Speaker 4: I mean at this point in her life, she's one 727 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,799 Speaker 4: years old. She's never going to know anything about us. 728 00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:08,720 Speaker 4: She'll never know, right. 729 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: And that's when she said to me, no matter how 730 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,600 Speaker 1: dysfunctional situation, if there's one constant in a child's life, 731 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:16,600 Speaker 1: it will make all the difference in the world. And 732 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,880 Speaker 1: so that is what we decided to do, because, like 733 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,920 Speaker 1: you were saying earlier, too. I'm sure you had coaches 734 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 1: and you know, friends, dads and people that sewed into 735 00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,120 Speaker 1: your life in the areas where your dad wasn't there 736 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 1: for you. And I think both Troy and I can 737 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,200 Speaker 1: name teachers and you know, my youth group leader, you know, 738 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:36,919 Speaker 1: people that filled in those gaps for us. 739 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:38,840 Speaker 3: And so that was what we decided. 740 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:40,799 Speaker 1: That's the day we decided that we would be her 741 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:45,560 Speaker 1: constant and so you know that that has been hard, 742 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:46,640 Speaker 1: It has not been easy. 743 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,200 Speaker 3: We see here every year, Yeah, we see her. 744 00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:53,120 Speaker 1: We sell a relationship with her, and we're still Mommy 745 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,760 Speaker 1: Erica and daddy Troy, and you know, it's been a decade, 746 00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:00,800 Speaker 1: which is longer than that now. Yeah, yeah, she's thirteen, 747 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:02,399 Speaker 1: so I mean it's been longer than that. It's been 748 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,759 Speaker 1: a long time, but it's it has been you know, 749 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,520 Speaker 1: the one thing that we did feel and there were 750 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:10,400 Speaker 1: there were a couple of two three years where the 751 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:14,839 Speaker 1: system was a mess around her. I mean, with the 752 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,759 Speaker 1: both sides of the family fighting for her. And as 753 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,680 Speaker 1: we all know, the system does not protect the children. 754 00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,960 Speaker 1: It protects the stupid adults in the situation, like it 755 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,520 Speaker 1: seems like they're the ones that have all the power 756 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,479 Speaker 1: and the children have none, and so we it was hard. 757 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,399 Speaker 1: We had to sit by and watch, you know, her 758 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:35,640 Speaker 1: be juggled back and forth, have her you know, her 759 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:37,000 Speaker 1: future in jeopardy. 760 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:38,640 Speaker 3: And at one point she was. 761 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: Supposed to be moved from so she was with us 762 00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: a year. She was with the aunt for two years, 763 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,399 Speaker 1: and then they had a DHS worker that was going 764 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:54,360 Speaker 1: to recommend and move to move her now from the 765 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,640 Speaker 1: place she's known for two years, to be reunited with 766 00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,800 Speaker 1: her sibling group, which the sibling group had grown since 767 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,040 Speaker 1: then since her birth, and not one of them were 768 00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,200 Speaker 1: from the same father or the same you know, She'd 769 00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,120 Speaker 1: never lived under the same roof with them, and they 770 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,040 Speaker 1: were going to get ready to move her. And that's 771 00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:15,080 Speaker 1: when I say, Mama Erica rang heaven and hell like. 772 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,920 Speaker 1: We used what power we had to help her stay 773 00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,600 Speaker 1: where she was with the aunt and make that help 774 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,560 Speaker 1: that be permanent, because we could not fathom for a 775 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:28,520 Speaker 1: moment of having her be moved again, torn from a 776 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:32,960 Speaker 1: home that she knew for two years. 777 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:38,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, doulter, So guys, I mean, this story is 778 00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:42,480 Speaker 2: is sad, but it's also redemptive because you have remained 779 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:46,040 Speaker 2: a constant for her and have continued to fight for 780 00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:50,719 Speaker 2: her even as she was taken from you. And I 781 00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:55,720 Speaker 2: think that's beautiful. And you know, that's where normal folks 782 00:45:56,320 --> 00:46:02,360 Speaker 2: do extraordinary things like yourselves, and you know it's it's amazing. 783 00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:06,840 Speaker 2: But having gone through that, I can just imagine that 784 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,759 Speaker 2: I've gone through it, you know, you know, trod it. 785 00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,319 Speaker 2: I think I'm gonna drop back and punt and we'll 786 00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:20,319 Speaker 2: do something different. And was that's what y'all did? Right? 787 00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:26,120 Speaker 1: Yeah? My friend and neighbor that worked at volunteered at 788 00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:30,280 Speaker 1: CPO called me, oh gosh, this would have been January, 789 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,719 Speaker 1: so we had to hand Carly over in. We did 790 00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,239 Speaker 1: it in June, around her first birthday. And then this 791 00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,239 Speaker 1: was about nine months later. My friend calls me and 792 00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,879 Speaker 1: she says, I don't know if you're ready, and I'm 793 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,839 Speaker 1: not sure I was, but she said, we have a 794 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,920 Speaker 1: birth father that's called the Mint, you know, called CPO, 795 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:53,640 Speaker 1: and is looking to place his three and a half 796 00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:54,400 Speaker 1: year old daughter. 797 00:46:55,239 --> 00:47:01,400 Speaker 2: Okay, now you've become crazy, a glutton and nuts. You 798 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,640 Speaker 2: were crazy people at this point after all the pain 799 00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:09,320 Speaker 2: and effort and money and time you've just gone through 800 00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 2: and still having no way completely recovered from all of 801 00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:19,319 Speaker 2: that emotionally, you're actually going to try this again? How 802 00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:23,640 Speaker 2: can we say now, Troy, I can tell you about 803 00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:24,760 Speaker 2: fifteen different ways. 804 00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,640 Speaker 4: We just looked at each other and we thought, this 805 00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:32,600 Speaker 4: little girl needs needs somebody to care for her. 806 00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:43,360 Speaker 2: And that concludes Part one of my conversation with Erica 807 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:47,160 Speaker 2: and Troy Andrews. And Part two is now available. And 808 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,600 Speaker 2: I promise you, guys, you do not want to miss 809 00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:54,400 Speaker 2: this incredible adoption story. But if for some strange reason 810 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,400 Speaker 2: you do, make sure to join the Army of Normal 811 00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:01,319 Speaker 2: Folks at normal Folks dot us to become a member 812 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,600 Speaker 2: of the movement. By signing up, you'll also receive a 813 00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,920 Speaker 2: weekly email with short episode summaries in case you happen 814 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:11,480 Speaker 2: to miss an episode, or you might prefer just reading 815 00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:15,520 Speaker 2: about our incredible guests. Together, guys, we can change this 816 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:19,239 Speaker 2: country and it starts with you. I'll see you in 817 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:19,759 Speaker 2: Part two.