1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here, 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election. 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade 5 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent. 6 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible. 7 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means 8 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that, 9 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 2: let's get to the show. 10 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 4: They're collecting information about They said they can collect information 11 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 4: about your sex life, your sexual activity, your union membership, 12 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,919 Speaker 4: your genetic information, and your biometrics, on top of all 13 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 4: the car usage data of where you're driving, when you're driving, 14 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 4: how fast you're driving, how many people are in the car, 15 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,279 Speaker 4: or radio stations you're listening to, and on and on 16 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 4: and on. It was huge. It was really frightening. 17 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 3: Actually, is your car spying on you? 18 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: My name is James Lee and you're watching Beyond the 19 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: Headlines on Breaking Points. 20 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 3: Many people think. 21 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: Of their car as a private space, somewhere to call 22 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: their doctor, have a personal conversation, cry over a breakup, 23 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: or hit the open road without the world knowing where 24 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: you're headed. But that perception no longer matches reality. According 25 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: to Mozilla research, popular global brands including BMW for Toyota, Tesla, Kia, 26 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: and subru can collect deeply personal data such as sexual activity, 27 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: immigration status, race, facial expressions, weight, health and genetic information 28 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: and where you drive with data collected by sensors, microphones, cameras, 29 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: and phones and devices drivers connect to their cars, as 30 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 1: well as by car apps, company websites, dealerships and vehicle telematics. 31 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: Where does all this information go, who has access to it? 32 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: And for what purposes are they using it? Joining us 33 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: today is gen cult Writer, program Director of Privacy not included, 34 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: a Mozilla initiative and guide that helps consumers understand privacy 35 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: and security features of various technology products and services. 36 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 3: Jen, thank you for joining us today. Yeah, thanks for 37 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 3: having me all right, I want. 38 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: To start with the report itself. The Mozilla report found 39 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: that all twenty five major car brands reviewed received failing 40 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: marks for consumer privacy. I was wondering what exactly it 41 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: means to receive a failing mark. If you can go 42 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: into that a little bit and share with us some 43 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: of the maybe they're some of the most surprising, perhaps 44 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: startling findings. You guys, came across. 45 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 4: Yeah, so all twenty five of the car brands we 46 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 4: reviewed across fifteen car companies earned our privacy not included 47 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 4: warning label. And what that means is we ding companies 48 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 4: for how much data they collect, how they used that data? 49 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 4: So are they sharing it for targeted advertising purposes? Are 50 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 4: they selling it? Things like that? How much control a 51 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 4: user has over their data? So can you get your 52 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 4: data deleted no matter where you live or only if 53 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 4: you live in a state where your privacy right is guaranteed. 54 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 4: We look at companies known track records, so do they 55 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 4: have a good track record of protecting, in respecting and 56 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 4: securing the information that they collect on people. We also 57 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 4: have a set of minimum security standards that we look 58 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 4: at for every product we review. Does it use encryption, 59 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 4: does it require a strong password? 60 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 5: Things like that. 61 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 4: And so with the reviewing of the car companies, we 62 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 4: found like our eyes were bugging out when we found 63 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 4: how much data these car companies said in their privacy 64 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 4: policies that they could collect on users. And so you ask, well, 65 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 4: what are some of the things that really surprised us? 66 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 4: And I mean, first off was just the scope of 67 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 4: how much information these car companies said they could collect 68 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 4: and you think about, Okay, a car should collect the 69 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 4: information it needs to get me from point A to 70 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 4: point based safely. Right, Okay, that's like kind of the 71 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 4: place where you start. Car companies felt like they went 72 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 4: way beyond that. They're collecting information about They said they 73 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 4: con collect information about your sex life, your sexual activity, 74 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 4: your union membership, your genetic information, and your biometrics. On 75 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 4: top of all the car stage data of where you're driving, 76 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 4: when you're driving, how fast you're driving, how many people 77 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 4: are in the car, what radio stations you're listening to, 78 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 4: and on and on and on. It was. It was huge. 79 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 4: It was really frightening. 80 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: Actually, wow, So you mentioned right now some very startling 81 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: like sexual activity, health information, these kinds of things. So 82 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: what mechanisms or technologies are they using in the car 83 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 1: to get that kind of data. 84 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 4: That's a good question. So we know that all modern 85 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 4: cars are smart cars. It's not like you can go 86 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 4: to the lot right now and buy a dumb car 87 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 4: because all the cars that they're selling on the lots 88 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 4: now pretty much are cars that have sensors built in 89 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 4: to track your speed, you're braking, whether you're wearing your 90 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 4: seat belt, They have microphones in the cars, they have 91 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 4: cameras in the cars outside the car, so there's a 92 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 4: lot of data that is being collected and the potential 93 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 4: for the data. They can collect everything, and this is 94 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 4: kind of the tip of the iceberg. I just read 95 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 4: some information last week about a company that was developing 96 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 4: technology to use the indoor in camera in car cameras 97 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 4: to study our emotions and moods to know what we're 98 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 4: feeling when we're in our car, and so that's really scary. 99 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 4: So they can collect the information through the sensors, the microphones, 100 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 4: the cameras. How are they collecting information about your sex 101 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 4: life or even are they That's something that I can't answer. 102 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 4: I don't I'm not inside of the car companies to 103 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 4: know what they're doing. But all I can say for 104 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 4: certain is if you buy a Nissan or Akiya, the 105 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 4: privacy policies that we reviewed last year's made you consent 106 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 4: to it that said that they could collect that information. 107 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 1: So you mentioned a couple of brands there, So I'm 108 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: wondering if you guys spotted any regional differences between manufacturers 109 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: and how they collect data or how much data they 110 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: collect between let's say North American manufacturers versus European ones 111 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 1: Asian ones. Was there any difference to how they approach 112 00:05:58,120 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: this issue of data privacy. 113 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, So we reviewed the privacy documentation as best we 114 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 4: could find it for kind of North American cars, mostly 115 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 4: US based, and we also looked at EU privacy documentation, 116 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 4: and so privacy documentation varies a little bit. In the EU, 117 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 4: they have what's called GDPR, which is their privacy protecting law. 118 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 4: It gives consumers rights, right to be deleted, right to 119 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 4: not have data collected without you, without your explicit consent, 120 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 4: things like that. In the US, we don't have a 121 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 4: federal privacy law, and so you'll read the American privacy 122 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 4: laws and you'll get an addendum for what's happening in 123 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 4: California or maybe in Colorado or Virginia or a place 124 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 4: like that. But across the board, car companies are saying 125 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:48,239 Speaker 4: they can collect a lot of information. In the EU, 126 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 4: consumers are protected, they have certain rights, So everybody there 127 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 4: will have the right to delete data. Here in the US, 128 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 4: not everybody will have the right to delete data. Consent 129 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 4: is required to be gotten a little more explicitly in 130 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 4: the EU than it is here in the US, and 131 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 4: so those were the major differences. I think looking at 132 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 4: EU privacy policies, they don't tend to go in as 133 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 4: much detail about the data, how the data is collected, 134 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 4: or what data is collected and how is it used. 135 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 4: And you will get that in North American privacy policies. 136 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: And you spoke a little bit about consent. So I'm 137 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: wondering if we dive into that a little bit more specifically. 138 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: When we think of consent, we usually think in terms 139 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: of social media companies, online services apps, things like that, 140 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: where we physically click that we agree to specific terms 141 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: and conditions. Albeit I don't think many of us actually 142 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: read the document itself. But how does this happen, Let's say, 143 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: with the owner of a car, or even a passenger 144 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: in a vehicle, how do they give consent to the manufacturer? 145 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, consent is a really tricky issue, especially when it 146 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 4: comes to cars. I you know, my family bought a 147 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 4: car last year. At no point that I was I 148 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 4: required to consent to the privacy policy for the car 149 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 4: company that I bought. I chose not to download the app. 150 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 4: If I downloaded the app, there would have been an 151 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 4: opportunity to look at that privacy policy. Probably when the 152 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 4: app was downloaded, and then the use of the connected services. 153 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 4: Sometimes something will flash on the screen really quickly, Hey 154 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 4: do you consent to this? But to sit through a 155 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 4: car in a car and scroll through, you know, five 156 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 4: thousand words of illegal document isn't. Isn't usually the way 157 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 4: that people are going to do it. And so consent 158 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,559 Speaker 4: is really tricky. And we saw this with's the story 159 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 4: that came out from the New York Times recently where 160 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 4: GM was collecting usage data on people's cars, sharing that 161 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 4: with data brokers. The insurance companies were buying it from 162 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 4: the data brokers, and people's interest rates were going up. 163 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 4: GM says, oh, we never did that without consent, But 164 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 4: the consumers are like, I don't remember ever consenting to this. 165 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 4: And it was a feature in there on Star and 166 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 4: so you know whether it happened at the dealer. We're 167 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 4: hurt hearing a lot about when people buy cars, the 168 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 4: salespeople are actually incentivized to get them to download the 169 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 4: app and except all conditions or sign up for connected services, 170 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 4: and the car companies really push this and so you 171 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 4: might not have realized before you drove off the lot 172 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 4: when the car salesman was walking you through the features 173 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 4: they actually consented for you, and you didn't realize it. 174 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 4: And then it's hard to go in and an unconsent 175 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 4: you know, once you've consented, it's really hard to kind 176 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 4: of pull that back. And so and then there's apps, 177 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 4: and then there's connected services. You know, if you use 178 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 4: serious XM, do you call when you consented? So that's 179 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 4: a problem. Consent is very murky. Car companies aren't very 180 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 4: explicitly getting it. And then there's the funny parts that 181 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 4: are kind of funny hab but also funny said where 182 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 4: you read the privacy policies and it'll say, hey, you know, 183 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 4: if you use these connected services in your car, you 184 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 4: consent to all this data being collected. And anybody who 185 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 4: becomes a passenger in your car is consented to this 186 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 4: privacy policy as well. And it's your duty as the 187 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 4: driver of this car to let the person the passenger 188 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 4: know about this price policy, which is just ridiculous. Right, 189 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 4: nobody picks their buddy up to go to a movie 190 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 4: and says, hold on before we leave, let me read 191 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 4: you this privy policy and make sure you consent to 192 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 4: this data collection. That's just not how it works, and 193 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,839 Speaker 4: so consent is very it's a very dark subject. It's 194 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 4: a very bad subject when it comes to this, and 195 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 4: it needs to be improved. 196 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 3: Absolutely. It seems very, very disturbing. 197 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 1: So I'm wondering if have you received any specific responses 198 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: from consumers after they've read your report, what kinds of 199 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: the what's the vibe that we're getting from the people. 200 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, so I think the first reaction from people was like, 201 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 4: holy cow, what is happening? Which is great because when 202 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 4: we were doing the research, that was our reaction too. 203 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 4: We're like, holy cow, what's going on? This is really bad? 204 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,959 Speaker 4: How come no one's talking about this? And so we 205 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 4: were really pleased to see that. You know, it wasn't 206 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:52,959 Speaker 4: just us that we were feeling that way when we put 207 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 4: our research out, like other people were like, holy cow, 208 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,839 Speaker 4: I had no idea. And I think that's in part 209 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 4: because people don't buy cars all that freak, and if 210 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 4: you bought a car ten years ago, you might not 211 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 4: know that you go to buy a car now, and 212 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 4: privacy is even something you need to contemplate and people 213 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 4: can't can't rank privacy as something they do when they, 214 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 4: you know, go car shopping, they have to look at 215 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 4: price and affordability and safety and availability, and and then 216 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 4: you know, people started sharing their own stories of the 217 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 4: car salesman that really pushed them to sign up for 218 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,839 Speaker 4: things because they would get a bonus if you signed up. 219 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 4: We heard lots of stories from people that were trying 220 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 4: to opt out and figure out how to opt out 221 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 4: and just being really confused about how to do it, 222 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 4: and can I disable the cellular data? Well maybe, but 223 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 4: you might avoid your warranty. Can I ask my dealer 224 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 4: to stop doing this? It's like, well, the dealer and 225 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 4: the car company you aren't always on the same page 226 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 4: about data collection and data sharing. They're they're kind of 227 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 4: pointing fingers back and forth at each other, so you 228 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 4: might not get straight answers. You know, lots of stories 229 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 4: like that. It was an interesting story. And Australia were 230 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 4: a Toyota owner, lifelong Toyota owner I think, went to 231 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 4: buy a new Toyota, put the deposit down and then 232 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 4: while he's waiting for the vehicle to come in, learned 233 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 4: about the privacy concerns. Contacted the dealer and said I 234 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 4: didn't know about this. Can I opt out? And they 235 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 4: were like, well you can opt out, but it's not 236 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 4: like you're not You're gonna You're gonna have your data 237 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 4: collected probably, And he's like, well, I don't want the car, 238 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 4: but they wouldn't give him back his deposit. He got 239 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 4: a consumer group involved, and after a lot of back 240 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 4: and forth with the dealer and the car company and 241 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 4: people pointing fingers, he eventually got his his deposit back. 242 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 4: But it was a struggle, and so I think the 243 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 4: biggest response is people were surprised and shocked and kind 244 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 4: of angered and then asking well, what can we do? 245 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 4: You know, what what options do we have? And unfortunately 246 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 4: I am not able to give consumers a lot of 247 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 4: good options because you can look and do your best 248 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 4: to opt out of things and try not to give 249 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 4: your consent. But again I worry that it's very confusing, 250 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 4: and sometimes consent might not be explicit asked. You can 251 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,839 Speaker 4: not download and use the app, which is what I did, 252 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 4: but you're giving up some features in your car that 253 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 4: people might find really useful. You cannot use the connected services, 254 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 4: but you might be paying for them anyways. Or you 255 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:14,959 Speaker 4: know you'll get the free trial and not realize that 256 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 4: by agreeing to that free trial, you're giving up a 257 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 4: lot of data, and you might not be able to 258 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 4: delete your data. And so what I end up telling 259 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 4: people is, you know, it's time for the US to 260 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 4: have a strong federal privacy law where people have rights 261 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 4: and car companies have to do better. 262 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad I bought a car like seven years ago, 263 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: so here and all this stuff. I read recently that 264 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 1: according to Mackenzie Report, the monetization of car data that's 265 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: what we're talking about here, is projected to be a 266 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: huge industry seven hundred and fifty billion dollars. So we 267 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: understand what's in it for the manufacturer, but for the consumer, 268 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: it seems like there's a whole lot of issues there 269 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: have How have the car manufacturers tried to justify this 270 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: or or spend this maybe in a positive way the report, 271 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: I know, I read in there that there was you 272 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: guys mentioned privacy washing and the findings, meaning that they're 273 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: pretending to protect consumers privacy without actually doing so. 274 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 3: Wondering what your thoughts on this are. 275 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, the car company's favorite argument about why they 276 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 4: need all this data is for safety. Oh, we need 277 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 4: all this data for safety reasons. This is just for safety. 278 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 4: We're we're not collecting data for to make money off you. 279 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 4: We're collecting data for safety reasons. And to be fair, 280 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 4: some of the data they collect is for safety, but 281 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 4: we think that the amount of data that they collect 282 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 4: to get you from point A to point B safely 283 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 4: is way more than they need to And we found 284 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 4: it very funny that, you know, the car companies would 285 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 4: at the top of their privacy policies to say, we 286 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 4: really care about your privacy and we've we've created these 287 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 4: privacy principles and we've signed it on to them, and 288 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 4: then you go and read the privy principles. It's not 289 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 4: things they're doing at all. They're not minimizing their data collection, 290 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 4: they aren't being very transparent in everything they do. They 291 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 4: don't have great consent mechanicisms where you know, people's choice 292 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 4: is very clear and explicit, and so we called them 293 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 4: out on that. I think I think that maybe they 294 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 4: would disagree, but I think consumers will probably maybe we'll 295 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 4: take a look at those privacy principles and also kind 296 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 4: of feel what we're feeling. It's like, no, you're not 297 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 4: doing these things, or if you are, you're doing them 298 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 4: really poorly. Can you do better? 299 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I know we don't have this any type 300 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: of federal privacy law like you just talked about. Is 301 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: there any or have you guys seen any regulatory pressure 302 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: at all to enact such a law to protect consumer 303 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: privacy or is this going to be kind of I 304 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: guess what you would call just just the way things 305 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: are going forward. 306 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 4: Well, I hope it's not just the way things are 307 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 4: going forward. It's my job to be pessimistic and optimistic. 308 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 4: So yeah, there's a couple of things afoot. I mean, 309 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 4: there is a draft federal privacy law that's been in existence. 310 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 4: It's kind of languishing. One of the really positive things 311 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 4: that we've seen since our research come out. As Senator 312 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 4: Edward Markey has gotten involved. He sent letters to the 313 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 4: car company the CEOs of fourteen car companies asking them 314 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 4: to clarify the questions that we couldn't get answered. He 315 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 4: was disappointed in the responses and has asked the FTC 316 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 4: to step in and use the full force of their 317 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 4: investigative power to try and hold the car companies accountable 318 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 4: for that. So that's a good step forward. As for 319 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 4: the federal privacy law, well, that's something that we're pushing 320 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 4: you know, like I, every time I get an opportunity 321 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 4: to tell people that they should support this a strong 322 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 4: consumer federal privacy law, I do it because I think 323 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 4: that's what we need. Interestingly, the car companies will also 324 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 4: say we need a strong federal we need a They'll 325 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 4: say they need it, we need a federal privacy law. 326 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 4: I don't think that our version in their version is 327 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 4: quite the same though. One of the reasons they say 328 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 4: that is they claim that states having a patchwork of 329 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 4: privacy makes it really difficult for them, which kind of 330 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 4: makes me chuckle because I'm like, well, just pick the 331 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 4: state with the strongest privacy and apply that to everybody. 332 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 4: That seems really easy, but it doesn't seem like something 333 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 4: they're keen to do. 334 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I do like your mindset right there, being 335 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: pessimistic and optimistic at the same time. So kudos to 336 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 1: you guys and the rest of folks at Mozilla for 337 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 1: staying on top of this. 338 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 3: Where can the audience find more of your work? 339 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, well, privacy not included. Dot Org is our 340 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 4: buyer's guide where you can go and see our car 341 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 4: reviews or reviews for your your smart speaker, your your 342 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,959 Speaker 4: fitness Tracker other things. So go there and if you 343 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 4: see something that we didn't review that you'd like to review, 344 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 4: we have a link there and let us know. We love, 345 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 4: we love to hear from people and try and learn 346 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 4: what they want us to review. So privacy not included 347 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 4: dot org. 348 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:47,360 Speaker 3: Everybody, go check that out. 349 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: And thank you Jen again for coming on the show 350 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: and reminding us that we are almost always being watched, 351 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: even in our cars as we are. 352 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 4: Thank you. 353 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 5: Hes Jordan with status ku news. 354 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 6: I'm on the ground in Wyoming County, West Virginia, coal 355 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 6: country where for over a year, the corporate media and 356 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 6: the politicians who represent West Virginia have been completely ignoring 357 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 6: a major water crisis in some areas, including creeks and 358 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 6: private drinking wells that residents get their water from. We've 359 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 6: seen water that looks like it's contaminated from coal mines. 360 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 7: There was nothing compared to what we had coming out 361 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 7: over and now the field so. 362 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 5: Private well, private water wells. Residents all over this community, 363 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,919 Speaker 5: most of them have water wells and it's supposed to 364 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 5: be water from the aquifer, yes, but that looks like. 365 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 7: It's coming from a coal mines. They're saying it's coming 366 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 7: from a coal mine. 367 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, the West. Coal mines all over the place here. 368 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 6: Yes, we've seen water that have white particles and green 369 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:56,360 Speaker 6: looking fungus. 370 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 7: I had a hydrologis send me pictures too. That's living. 371 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 7: All that white stuff, it's for living organism. It's growing, 372 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 7: that's growing. 373 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 5: Oh my god. 374 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,360 Speaker 6: Well, for over a year, residents have been coming down 375 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 6: with illnesses for what are the main symptoms? 376 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 8: You've been seen falling in some cases, fever and abnormals. 377 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 6: Some residents have suddenly died recently of unknown causes, and 378 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 6: animals are dropping dead abruptly. Please subscribe to Status kup 379 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 6: News on YouTube so we can get more support to 380 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 6: keep on this important story that the corporate media is 381 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 6: totally burying. 382 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 5: So we're in the backwoods West Virginia, Wyoming County. Right 383 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 5: down below this hill is Indian Creek, which uh short, 384 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:00,239 Speaker 5: looks contaminated to me. I see some stuff in there 385 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 5: that looks like a sheen. I don't know if it's 386 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 5: oil or something. But you live here, Paul, and tell 387 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 5: me about when you first started noticing there were issues 388 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 5: with the water. 389 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 9: You could start smelling it and I come out and looked, 390 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 9: and yeah, you could say it's been it's been a 391 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 9: while now, at. 392 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 5: Least over a here. 393 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,479 Speaker 9: Yes, and if you could say from right here, you 394 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 9: could say it right there really bad. 395 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 5: See the brown kind of almost looks like brown clay 396 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 5: or settlement. 397 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 7: Look, the DP doesn't give a shit about this. Christ 398 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 7: Look look at this. 399 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 10: Yeah, we're gonna walk. 400 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 7: On down through here. I know when I was driving 401 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 7: down here, probably about a quarter of a mile, I 402 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 7: looked and it was just as dirty. 403 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 5: Yeah, look at this, guys. 404 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 7: Look this is your d PEA Bay West Virginia Department 405 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 7: of Environmental Protection. 406 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 5: This is your protection. That is not normal in a 407 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 5: fresh creek. We've seen videos from Richard showing that brown stuff. 408 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 5: Some independent testing has tested for high levels of manganese, lead, 409 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 5: arsenic iron, But the state environmental testing they test for 410 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 5: who knows only four things, and I don't know what 411 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 5: they are. They say it's safe, but I mean your 412 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 5: eyes and your nose won't lie. Right now, it doesn't 413 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 5: smell so bad, But when it's hotter or it rains, 414 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 5: the smell gets worse. 415 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 9: Oh, yes, when it gets warmer, it it really gets bad. Yeah, 416 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,120 Speaker 9: you keep your door shut. You can't stand smell. Smells 417 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 9: just like sooge like what sewage? 418 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 5: And you reached out to Senator Mansion's office. Tell me 419 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 5: about what up in there? 420 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 8: Okay? 421 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 9: When I reached Senator Mansion's office, first lady I spoke 422 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 9: with she was from the Charleston office, and she tried 423 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 9: to help me what she could. But when it came 424 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 9: down to paying for my whale water testing because it 425 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 9: was a public well, they told me in the beginning 426 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:28,159 Speaker 9: they was going to pay for it. And then the 427 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 9: lady at the Charleston office, I wasn't using her no more. 428 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 9: A lady from another office was contacting me that I 429 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,360 Speaker 9: had used before. When I asked him to pay for 430 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 9: the water, he told me they wouldn't pay for it. 431 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 9: So I called back and told the lady I said 432 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 9: I wouldn't vote for him for Dogcatcher. So I hung up, 433 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 9: and it must have made him mad, so they called 434 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 9: me back. A man did, and he told me he 435 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 9: said that was a state issue, not a federal issue, 436 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 9: and don't call back. 437 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 5: And this was a man from the Charleston office or 438 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 5: the DC office. 439 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 9: I'm not sure which office it was from, but it 440 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 9: was from his office. And I also have the number 441 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 9: in there from where they had called, so. 442 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 5: Let me get this trade Mansion is the senator of 443 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,199 Speaker 5: the state of West Virginia. Yet they told you it 444 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 5: was a state issue and not a federal issue, so 445 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 5: he couldn't help you. 446 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 9: Yes, it kept wanting me to fill out papers for 447 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 9: them to represent me, and I did it, and then 448 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 9: what they would do. They just keep sending papers to 449 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 9: try to have But when it came to the money 450 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 9: of having the well or the water from the creek, 451 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 9: they wasn't gonna pay for that. 452 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,679 Speaker 5: What were they sending you papers for to. 453 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 9: A paper to represent may Because they couldn't do it 454 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 9: on their own, they had to have my signature. 455 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 5: I'm not an expert on landownership, but he is the 456 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 5: elected senator of West Virginia. I don't think he needs 457 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 5: your signature to come down here and inspect her to 458 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 5: look into a contaminated creek and residents that are sick. 459 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 5: I don't know. It sounds like they just kind of 460 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 5: gave you the go around. 461 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 9: Yeah, they did. I filled out three papers. I have 462 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 9: filled out three papers, and the man did say that 463 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 9: to me not to call back, that it was a 464 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 9: state not a federal issue. 465 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 5: Can I ask you, I've talked to residents who their 466 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 5: dogs have died, roosters suddenly dying, their cats have gotten 467 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 5: sick and died. 468 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 10: I've men seeing coons, men seeing deer dead, seeing my 469 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 10: dogs get this like, they're sick one day and they're 470 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 10: dead the next before you can even take them to 471 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 10: the lead or anything. 472 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 5: How many dogs do you think lost two? 473 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 10: I've had about twenty roosters down my dogs. Anything it 474 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 10: drinks out of that creek. I had to go about 475 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 10: store bought water, It'll die here. 476 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 5: They are the ones that are left drinking out of 477 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 5: the creek. 478 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 10: Still, no I buy water, live water. I ain't got 479 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 10: many left. I ain't got three roosters left out about thirty. 480 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 5: Your cats have had issues? Were they ever drinking out 481 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 5: of the creek or just inhaling? Inhaling? Yeah, so the 482 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 5: cats were also smelling this and they you've had to 483 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 5: take them to the vet for respiratory stuff. Right, So 484 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 5: what you're saying is when they were born, they could meow, 485 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 5: and now they can't. They're getting health problems. I just 486 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 5: spoke with a woman bad diarrhea, nausea. 487 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 10: I haven't been able to breathe hardly, as you can 488 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 10: tell I'm a little oars and we've had diary and 489 00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 10: stuff going on pretty bad at my house. 490 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,400 Speaker 5: You've been having diarrhea anything else. It's just secondlous. 491 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 4: So I gotta go see a specialist over my stomach. 492 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 5: Right now. We're wanting a puke. I just don't have 493 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 5: the appetite stuff. 494 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 10: But yeah, the headaches, the dryness in my mouth, the 495 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 10: funny taste in my mouth. 496 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 5: You seen fairly young. I don't know. I mean, I'm 497 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 5: not at I'll be forty one next month. Right before 498 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 5: all this, were you relatively healthy? Yeah, I didn't have 499 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 5: no problem. I can get doctor records for you. Could 500 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 5: these kind of things right now? It's causing you know, 501 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 5: the stomach stuff. But could this lead to potentially worse 502 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 5: issues down the road. 503 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 4: Yes, And. 504 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 8: Digesting all these chemicals that we are seeing that it 505 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 8: has been tested for these whales can cause cancer. It 506 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,239 Speaker 8: can cause all kinds of different things, so especially if 507 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 8: it's not treated. So I can if they're continuing to 508 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 8: drink this and they're not being notified that hey, this 509 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 8: wonders will be bad and has all these chemicals, I mean, 510 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,199 Speaker 8: just keep drinking it. It's it's not gonna be a 511 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 8: good result. 512 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 5: In the end. Have you had any issues from showering 513 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 5: or drinking the water? 514 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 9: Yeah, I've had trouble from I'm scarred up. I'm across 515 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 9: my shoulders from showering in the water. 516 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 5: If you want to show so all those white marks 517 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 5: and splotches or. 518 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 9: They were bumps, and then when they would heal, it 519 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 9: would leave me scarred. 520 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 5: And did when did you start noticing that? Or when 521 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,120 Speaker 5: were you told that those were on your skin? 522 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 9: Uh? I had a buyopsy done. I had a boy done. 523 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 5: You got some in the front to you. 524 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 9: I had a buyopsy done a year ago from the 525 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 9: b A Hospital and b A Hospital told me they 526 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 9: don't know what it is. 527 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 5: But it started around the same time that Jamie's yard 528 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 5: was flooded about February twenty twenty three. Yes, and did it? Uh? 529 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 5: Did it it or anything? 530 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 8: Yeah? 531 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 9: We did itch at times. They gave me some crane 532 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,919 Speaker 9: to put on it, but that wasn't that wasn't doing 533 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 9: anything for it. So I just left it alone, let 534 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,439 Speaker 9: it here on its own, and it would ca me. 535 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 5: The dermatologist basically said, I don't know what it is. 536 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 9: Yeah, they told me they didn't know what it was, 537 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 9: and that was after a biopsy. 538 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 5: Uh, any problems with your animals? Did they used to 539 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 5: drink out of the creek. 540 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 9: Well, you say out there, I got a chicken house. 541 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 9: I don't have no chickens in it because my chickens 542 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 9: was dying and I wasn't going to I wasn't going 543 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 9: to let it continue. 544 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 5: You were in the Navy, yes, so you fight for 545 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 5: your country and this is what's happening to you right there. 546 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 5: I mean that's kind of a symbolic, right you. You're 547 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 5: a veteran and you dealing with this and the government 548 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 5: that sent you out is not even returning people's calls here. 549 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:07,959 Speaker 8: Yeah. 550 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 9: Yeah, they're giving us the run around. And you could 551 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 9: tell that it's not just it's not just the state, 552 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 9: it's the county. The southern counties in West Virginia built 553 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 9: the northern counties from when coal was came. So now 554 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 9: they've forgotten us. We're the forgotten, Like I told Joe 555 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 9: Manchi's office, we're the forgotten people of the Appalachian Mountains. 556 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,959 Speaker 5: What about the governor, I mean, he is a coal baron, 557 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 5: he was a billionaire, he's got a coal empire, hasn't 558 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 5: paid hundreds of millions of dollars and taxes and unpaid 559 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 5: clean up for mines. I looked into it. I haven't 560 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 5: heard anything from the governor on this, have you. 561 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 9: No, No, I haven't heard anything from the county, to 562 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 9: the state, to the federal I haven't heard anything from nobody. 563 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 7: And the EPA told you were expendable as long as 564 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 7: they got jobs. That's basically the way, you know. I 565 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 7: took it, and I had asked him again what he said. 566 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 7: He said, He goes, I'm not personally saying that. That's 567 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 7: the way they think when they come in here and 568 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 7: they say, well, we can't shut the minds down because 569 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 7: four or five people has died. This county and the 570 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 7: other counties in West Virginia and Kentucky Tennessee built this country. 571 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 7: We built it, and we need them. We need a 572 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 7: country to step in and do something. They're poisoning everybody, 573 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 7: so it's time for them to give back to us. 574 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 7: So that's what we want.