Speaker 1: Ruby, I came out of the womb.
Speaker 2: Gay sex and not just about penetration, but it's about conversation.
Speaker 3: I've been looging yourself. Begins with masturbation.
Speaker 4: From just beyond the lights of Los Angeles and Steamy
Speaker 4: Palm Springs, California. It's Mick Robert Bill just say, and this.
Speaker 3: Is silver Lighting with the Old Gays.
Speaker 5: So far, it's been just the four of us talking,
Speaker 5: but we think it's time we opened the door to
Speaker 5: a special guest.
Speaker 1: I told you I don't do those kind of things anymore.
Speaker 4: So who's going to be the fifth wheel on this
Speaker 4: Old Gay Tour?
Speaker 3: They're half our, so it's more like four and a
Speaker 3: half wheels.
Speaker 1: I think they make up for their youth with their intelligence,
Speaker 1: talent and bone structure.
Speaker 4: That's right for our season one finale, the Old Gays
Speaker 4: are welcoming our very first Silver Linings guest Brandon Kyle Goodman.
Speaker 4: Brandon is a writer, actor, comedian, educator, and activist, best
Speaker 4: known for their brilliant work on the TV show Big Mouth.
Speaker 1: Their heartfelt book You Gotta Be You, and their iHeart
Speaker 1: podcast series Tell Me Something MESSI.
Speaker 4: We're thrilled to have them with us, so please welcome
Speaker 4: the fabulous Brandon Kyle Goodman. Yes, Hi everybody. Hi, Hi,
Speaker 4: I'm so excited to be here. How y'all doing today?
Speaker 5: We're doing great?
Speaker 6: Yeah? Where do I find y'all?
Speaker 3: Palm Springs?
Speaker 6: Palm Springs? Is it hot?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah?
Speaker 5: Maybe one hundred and ten, one hundred and fifteen today?
Speaker 6: How do else stay cool in that weather?
Speaker 4: It's called air conditioning? Honey, Well, that's right.
Speaker 3: And pol you have.
Speaker 4: In the evening in the evenings.
Speaker 6: And any popsicles maybe I do?
Speaker 4: Okay, I love popsicles and ice cream sandwiches. It's summer.
Speaker 6: There we go.
Speaker 4: So what's going on in La?
Speaker 1: La?
Speaker 6: Is also hot?
Speaker 2: Not as host Springs. Now, you know, I went to
Speaker 2: the gym this morning. I had a little meditation.
Speaker 6: You know. I ate the string cheese. I'm feeling good.
Speaker 4: I'm feeling do you say a string cheese?
Speaker 2: A string cheese? Just saying okay, just the one to
Speaker 2: hold me over. It's feeling good.
Speaker 5: So our conversation today has an intergeneration focus. We covered
Speaker 5: a lot of ground on this podcast so far, and
Speaker 5: now we'd like to mingle with you about the ways
Speaker 5: things have changed are stayed the same in Queer life.
Speaker 4: Yes, the four of us are considered baby boomers, and Brandon, you.
Speaker 6: Are a millennial, I believe, Yes.
Speaker 1: What's the most millennial thing about you?
Speaker 2: I feel like what's the most millennial thing about me
Speaker 2: is probably my love of mental health and like feelings
Speaker 2: and my love of living single, which is one of
Speaker 2: my favorite TV shows. So I love I love wearing,
Speaker 2: I love the nineties nostalgia, I love wearing overalls now.
Speaker 6: But I also love my mental health.
Speaker 2: That's like, that's my my gem, you know, talking about
Speaker 2: our feelings understand, Yes, what's.
Speaker 6: The most what's the most boomer thing about y'all?
Speaker 5: Bill can be more specific, but we're not really boomers.
Speaker 5: Bill and I.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Something that's not really talked about a lot is
Speaker 1: the Silent generation. Bob was born in forty three. I
Speaker 1: was born in forty four. And the Silent generation goes
Speaker 1: from nineteen twenty eight through nineteen forty five. And the
Speaker 1: Silent generation was very disciplined and it was a very
Speaker 1: strict generation. And the boomers kind of broke into it
Speaker 1: and that they started expressing their own things and not
Speaker 1: things that they were taught like in the past.
Speaker 3: Oh, I beg to differ, Uh, oh, differ. Then I'm
Speaker 3: a baby boomer. You know, there are older boomers and
Speaker 3: then there are younger boomers. I was born in nineteen
Speaker 3: fifty six, so it was probably between the two boomer generations. Remember,
Speaker 3: Barack Obama is a baby boomer. He was born at
Speaker 3: the very end. And I can see that there is
Speaker 3: a very big difference between say like a Bill Clinton
Speaker 3: and a Barack Obama. You can see the difference in
Speaker 3: attitude and approach to life. And I think that has
Speaker 3: a lot to do with the fact that the early
Speaker 3: boomers were very much involved in civil rights protests, the
Speaker 3: beginning of the women's movement, the LGBTQ queer movement, and
Speaker 3: also just to open up the way we approach life.
Speaker 3: Boomers are, first of all, were expected to achieve a lot,
Speaker 3: but they are also the most spoiled generation, and I
Speaker 3: would say that about ourselves.
Speaker 5: I also think that World War two, the end of
Speaker 5: the war had a really big impact in shaping how
Speaker 5: many of us viewed our place in the world in
Speaker 5: a positive way and how if we all work hard
Speaker 5: and work together, what we can achieve. And so that
Speaker 5: I think was instilled in many of us by our
Speaker 5: parents and by just society at the time that it
Speaker 5: really shaped our formitive years and what we chose to
Speaker 5: do later in life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's an early boomer. Okay, it's much different.
Speaker 6: And just say, where do you fit into all this?
Speaker 6: What do you think?
Speaker 4: I don't I just I just am you just I
Speaker 4: never figured out these boomers and exes and all that stuff.
Speaker 4: I'm just me. Yes, Was it was it.
Speaker 2: Easy to carve a space out for yourselves or did
Speaker 2: you have to was?
Speaker 6: Was?
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously there was resistance, but what was your
Speaker 2: relationship to that resistance?
Speaker 4: I don't remember the big issues. It's been a smooth
Speaker 4: journey because of my parents educating us on what to do,
Speaker 4: when to do, and when not to do. And then
Speaker 4: I became vocal as I became a teenager with the
Speaker 4: racial issues that were going on. Still had to stay
Speaker 4: in the closet for quite a while, so I wasn't out.
Speaker 6: When did everybody come out? How old were you all
Speaker 6: when you came.
Speaker 4: Out to ourselves or publicly?
Speaker 6: Oh that's a great question to yourself and then publicly?
Speaker 5: Okay, Yeah, for me, there was no single event or anything.
Speaker 5: It was just a very gradual, natural process that took place.
Speaker 5: When I was probably five years old, and I knew
Speaker 5: at that point in time I was different, and I
Speaker 5: knew what visuals matters stimulated me. I have never been
Speaker 5: to bed with a woman. I have never had the
Speaker 5: desire to.
Speaker 3: I think each two of us has a different definition
Speaker 3: of coming out. It really wasn't until my junior year
Speaker 3: of college where I finally came out. And that's when
Speaker 3: I started doing the bars in the circuit, but also
Speaker 3: going to meetings because Minnesota is a pretty liberal state
Speaker 3: and had already developed a high level of gay organization.
Speaker 3: And in nineteen seventy seven, I moved to California and
Speaker 3: I went to a party with my ex and we
Speaker 3: had done LSD and so it was a Sunday morning,
Speaker 3: and it was around two in the afternoon, and my
Speaker 3: sister called, and then she put my mother on for
Speaker 3: some reason. And I was still so loaded, and so
Speaker 3: I told my mother that I forgived her for all
Speaker 3: anythings that any resentments that I had against her. And
Speaker 3: then I said, oh, and by the way, I'm gay.
Speaker 3: Oh And she said, oh, okay, I still love you,
Speaker 3: but don't tell your father.
Speaker 6: Oh wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I thank god that I left Minnesota that's
Speaker 3: all I say.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that makes sense, So you could be yourself, how
Speaker 6: about you? Bill?
Speaker 4: And just they I came out at birth. I was
Speaker 4: cut out at birth, but I came out to myself
Speaker 4: all my life. I was never into girls, but I
Speaker 4: had to be on fortunately because I didn't want to
Speaker 4: hurt them, but I did. I was close to marriage
Speaker 4: but got out of it. But I came out publicly.
Speaker 4: When was that? Oh, when I moved to la in
Speaker 4: eighty two and joined La Gay Men's Course. And it's
Speaker 4: just been the journey of the courses in that community
Speaker 4: leading me to where I am today.
Speaker 6: I love that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Bill, I always knew I was gay. I
Speaker 1: mean I came out of the womb gay and a
Speaker 1: lot of the other kids played doctor with one another.
Speaker 1: But I always avoided that situation because I didn't want
Speaker 1: anybody to know I was gay. I never came out
Speaker 1: to my family, never told them I was gay, because
Speaker 1: they just knew I was gay. But I always restrained
Speaker 1: from playing around or anything until I was sixteen and
Speaker 1: a half years old and I got my driver's license
Speaker 1: and I made a beeline right down to Laguna Beach
Speaker 1: and the rest was history.
Speaker 6: Oh, I love it. I love it.
Speaker 4: I have one more, please, I don't know how I
Speaker 4: could forget this. My mom coming out to my mom. Oh,
Speaker 4: I was in a relationship already in California, and she
Speaker 4: kept saying, you know how parents, when are you getting married?
Speaker 4: When are you getting married? Like, okay, girl, you don't know.
Speaker 4: So I wrote a letter and sent it to my
Speaker 4: sister and her husband and they took the letter to
Speaker 4: my mom for her to read with her, and it
Speaker 4: was just amazing. She was crying and she was feeling
Speaker 4: guilty for not being able to be there for me.
Speaker 4: But I told her, I said, you were, you just
Speaker 4: didn't know it. I says, that's it. I says that
Speaker 4: you love me and accept me for who I am.
Speaker 4: It's all I need. After that, I could care less
Speaker 4: who knew or who didn't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, yeah, moms are I mean I think
Speaker 2: for ye moms or something. Moms are something and want
Speaker 2: that approval or that acceptance my mom. My mom is
Speaker 2: from Trinidad, so I'm perseneration American. I came out to
Speaker 2: her when I was twenty or no, sorry, twenty one
Speaker 2: or twenty two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She didn't take it
Speaker 2: well and she Unfortunately we've been estranged for about fifteen
Speaker 2: years now. So my journey has been learning to love
Speaker 2: myself regardless of whether or not my family could show
Speaker 2: up for me. And this is like where you know,
Speaker 2: chosen family became such a huge part of my life.
Speaker 2: I remember having this moment because we're you know, I'm
Speaker 2: a PK pastor's kid. My grandmother was a minister, my
Speaker 2: mom is now a minister, and so we just kind
Speaker 2: of grew up under the screw. Not this called the scrutiny,
Speaker 2: but the I always say, like the sashon Malia Obama
Speaker 2: of church, like you're just always being watched and how
Speaker 2: you behave it's all. But I remember after I came
Speaker 2: out to my mom and that didn't go so well,
Speaker 2: and just like wrestling with is it okay to be gay?
Speaker 2: Is it okay to be queer or not? And then
Speaker 2: looking at my friends who were also queer and loving
Speaker 2: them so deeply and being like, well, if they're wonderful,
Speaker 2: I don't think there're a sin, then why would I
Speaker 2: be a sin?
Speaker 6: And that allowed me.
Speaker 2: To release that shame and realize it was more my
Speaker 2: mother's journey and not mine. You know that I get
Speaker 2: to be proud of who I am, and also because
Speaker 2: of all the people that have come before yourselves, included
Speaker 2: who have lived out loud and made it okay. And
Speaker 2: I was saying to my friends, I don't know, it
Speaker 2: would feel disrespectful to me to not honor the people
Speaker 2: who have come before and who were living out loud
Speaker 2: and who were old about it, to not do that
Speaker 2: if I feel safe enough to do it, I'm in
Speaker 2: New York City. Like, if not there, then where are you?
Speaker 2: Thank you you're outselling you know?
Speaker 3: Oh well Bram did following up on that. Yeah, yes,
Speaker 3: tell me about the podcast, tell me something mess.
Speaker 6: Yeah, my podcast.
Speaker 2: My podcast is a safe space to talk about relationships,
Speaker 2: sex and identity. And so we range from you know,
Speaker 2: really wild things to really soulful things. But the point
Speaker 2: is to just have these conversations about the quiet things
Speaker 2: out loud. So to me, we are steeped in a
Speaker 2: culture that doesn't want to talk about stuff, and everyone
Speaker 2: is moving around in their spaces thinking that they're alone,
Speaker 2: and so the intention of the podcast is that you're
Speaker 2: not alone. That like, there are the wacky things that
Speaker 2: happen during sex that or the cringe things, or the
Speaker 2: embarrassing things, the vulnerable things. There are things that happen
Speaker 2: with your family, there are things that happen at work.
Speaker 2: And here's a safe space for us to talk about
Speaker 2: it all with curiosity, communication and compassion.
Speaker 3: Can you tell me what was your most memorable, quiet
Speaker 3: but explosive memory from the show?
Speaker 6: From the show you know what?
Speaker 2: This one was from Emily no Goski And she wrote
Speaker 2: the book Come As You Are, and we were. You
Speaker 2: know that book is revolutionary and just like incredible in
Speaker 2: terms of understanding one's body and sexuality and what you
Speaker 2: what the shoulds are, and how to release all I
Speaker 2: should do this and I should be this and just
Speaker 2: kind of exist. And she said to me, who you
Speaker 2: are as a sexual being deserves to exist. Hearing that
Speaker 2: and like just like broke me down in quite the way,
Speaker 2: in an unexpected way, because to be given that permission
Speaker 2: that who you are as a sexual person has every
Speaker 2: right to exist and be. And then Lena Waite came
Speaker 2: on and also gave us a moment. We were talking
Speaker 2: about mothers and not having adult relationships with our mothers,
Speaker 2: and she said something to the effect that her therapist
Speaker 2: had said, which is, you don't need somebody's response to heal.
Speaker 2: This idea that, like, you know, even if a person
Speaker 2: has passed away or you're no longer a conversation, you
Speaker 2: don't need their response to heal. You just need to
Speaker 2: say the truth of what you're feeling, whether that's to
Speaker 2: a candle that you've lit, whether that's the stars, whether
Speaker 2: that's in a letter, But you don't need to Their
Speaker 2: response is not going to bring you your healing. That
Speaker 2: healing has to come from from you. And so those
Speaker 2: are two very incredible moments on the show. And then
Speaker 2: Katya from ruf Roll's Drag Race told me about you
Speaker 2: know how she likes to work out with butt plugs
Speaker 2: and then one of the one time it fell out,
Speaker 2: she was at the gym and she had to pick
Speaker 2: it up real fast because she wasn't sure if it was,
Speaker 2: as she said, pristine. So we have the rage, we
Speaker 2: have the range on the show everything.
Speaker 3: Did she have to like run across the room to
Speaker 3: find it at the other wall.
Speaker 2: I think, and it was right there she just grabbed,
Speaker 2: just like betting itself a too long food moment. Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 2: the sling of shotting across the room. No, it wasn't
Speaker 2: that it just fell on the floor. Shit to grab
Speaker 2: real fast. So we talk about it all. It's just
Speaker 2: it's just a shame free space to have imperfect conversations
Speaker 2: that hopefully make people feel less alone.
Speaker 4: Oh great, I had that too. Anybody tell no I
Speaker 4: didn't miss a joke.
Speaker 3: Let's go back to this subject of butt plugged.
Speaker 6: Yes, please.
Speaker 3: Did anybody talk about, like, you know, losing one up there?
Speaker 2: I half I did once. That's why you need a
Speaker 2: flared base. So I had a silver chrome butt plug,
Speaker 2: had a little jewel on it. It was set to me,
Speaker 2: you know, because because of the work I do, people
Speaker 2: will send me different sex things.
Speaker 6: And I was all right, cool, let me do this.
Speaker 2: So I like put it in and I was like cool, cool,
Speaker 2: And then I think it coughed or something, and that
Speaker 2: thing went up into my guts and I said, this is.
Speaker 6: Not happening to me. This cannot happen to me.
Speaker 2: And I tried to reach for it and I could
Speaker 2: feel it, but it was moving and twirling and I
Speaker 2: couldn't get to it. And I was about to be
Speaker 2: like I have to go to my husband and be like, hey, babe,
Speaker 2: we might have to go to the hospital. But I
Speaker 2: gave myself one more moment, and I sat on the
Speaker 2: toilet and I said, just one big push, girl, and
Speaker 2: I had that and.
Speaker 6: That thing went clink clink clink clink clink all up
Speaker 6: in the toilet ball.
Speaker 2: But I told the about it, and they said, girl,
Speaker 2: you need a flared base. So anyone listening, if you
Speaker 2: got a butt plug, it better have a flared base.
Speaker 6: So don't go up to your guts.
Speaker 4: And make sure you cagle so you can keep that
Speaker 4: thing tight. There you go, yes, grab it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I had a vibrator and you go all the
Speaker 3: way up. Yeah. And well if somebody was using it,
Speaker 3: and I get I have a very powerful record, and
Speaker 3: I guess I just that's right, stocked it right. I'm
Speaker 3: just a greedy little.
Speaker 6: What's one of your favorite sex stories you want to share?
Speaker 5: No, they've been varied.
Speaker 3: Been varied. You know the thing about there's a lot
Speaker 3: of bad sex out there.
Speaker 6: Like, let's be honest.
Speaker 3: But you know, first of all, the only way you
Speaker 3: can improve your skills is by practicing. It's like riding
Speaker 3: a bike. You just got to keep getting on it.
Speaker 3: You just got to keep going on it. You just
Speaker 3: got to keep riding it. You know, riding it or
Speaker 3: taking it exactly. And you know, the one thing I
Speaker 3: will say is, you know, I got a lot of
Speaker 3: pointers watching porn. Porn, orn, orn. I got a lot
Speaker 3: of pointers watching orn. Yeah, porn, And like you know,
Speaker 3: you know the way those guys, some of those guys
Speaker 3: you know take it down their throats. I am just
Speaker 3: so impressed do that.
Speaker 6: That's a spiral.
Speaker 3: It's an art and one of the things you know,
Speaker 3: that that really separate us from the others, you know,
Speaker 3: the ninety nine percenters over there. You know, uh is
Speaker 3: sexist fun and sexes. I should be unashamed and and
Speaker 3: out there. You should try as many different positions and
Speaker 3: and and schems and and just to enjoy it because
Speaker 3: sexuality is what defines us.
Speaker 1: And Brandon, speaking of that, you put a word in
Speaker 1: the dictionary, correct.
Speaker 2: Yes, Bill, it's an urban dictionary, the VKG. Why the
Speaker 2: Brandon kao yawn? I taught people how to give a
Speaker 2: better blowjob, which is by yawning so that you open
Speaker 2: up the back of your throat, lift that so off
Speaker 2: palette and then you can take it for.
Speaker 3: The How do you yawn with your blo and how
Speaker 3: do you yawn when you yawned.
Speaker 6: There you go.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you yawn, you suppressed the gag replex exactly.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it's the when you don't yawn, it
Speaker 2: constrains the vocal cords and then you're getting you know,
Speaker 2: you're not going to get it all.
Speaker 3: The way Yeah, where you be, I know, And you
Speaker 3: know the best thing about is when it gets all
Speaker 3: the way down to your poicebox.
Speaker 2: There, give it a battle cry on that, dick, Uh huh.
Speaker 4: Did the work?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: On my podcast we talk a lot about we're talking
Speaker 2: about relationships, sex and identity, but I'm always talking about
Speaker 2: sex because there's so much shame around it, especially for
Speaker 2: women in queer fix because we've been trained to find
Speaker 2: what we do as not sex or not or is
Speaker 2: a sin or whatever, and so just having to undo
Speaker 2: that and unpack that and then discovering that inside of
Speaker 2: learning about sex, you really just learn about who you are.
Speaker 2: So I call people on my show, we call each
Speaker 2: other hose spelled h E a u X. It's a
Speaker 2: fancy word, and my definition of it is someone who
Speaker 2: commits to the liberation of themselves and others by thoughtfully
Speaker 2: interrogating their relationship to sex. Using curiosity, communication and compassion and.
Speaker 3: So this, well, that's a mouthful.
Speaker 6: It is a mouthful, and you know we like a mouthful. Mack.
Speaker 6: Come on, you got mack, You got.
Speaker 3: Baby.
Speaker 2: So it's just like having those conversations and creating a
Speaker 2: space to have conversations that it's not just about I
Speaker 2: always say sex is not just about penetration, but it's
Speaker 2: about conversation. It's about intimacy, it's about pleasure, it's about
Speaker 2: you know, curiosity. Can you be curious about what you
Speaker 2: love and what you don't love?
Speaker 3: Yeah? You know, I seem to remember in the days
Speaker 3: before age, like when you would go to a bath
Speaker 3: house in San Francisco, you were always engaging in conversation
Speaker 3: with somebody outside them, you know, the showers, and then
Speaker 3: you just saunter into a room, you know, and all
Speaker 3: of a sudden you've discovered your long lost friend. Yes,
Speaker 3: and you know, your alter ego or you know whatever.
Speaker 2: Yes, I know, I love I love a bathhouse conversation.
Speaker 2: The first time I went to a bath house, that
Speaker 2: was my favorite part about it was sitting in the
Speaker 2: jacuzzi and just talking and you know, like there without
Speaker 2: there having to be anything sexual, just like a bunch
Speaker 2: of men naked having conversations about life and whatever, and
Speaker 2: then you know, you go in the steamer room and
Speaker 2: do whatever. But that the that the the center of it.
Speaker 2: The core of it was actually the community. It was
Speaker 2: actually the emotional connection. I talk about having safe sex, safe,
Speaker 2: being satisfying, affirming, freeing, and emotionally connected.
Speaker 6: Stop, come on, you know, let's not.
Speaker 3: Preach.
Speaker 4: K Yeah, you know, it's still a Mama Luyer.
Speaker 3: You know, the relationships that I had lasting with my
Speaker 3: gay and queer friends have always begun through a sexual encounter,
Speaker 3: and I think those are the ones that last longer.
Speaker 3: I don't know why. Maybe there's a little twinge in
Speaker 3: the heart for that person as long as they're alive
Speaker 3: and as you remember them. And that's special. You know
Speaker 3: that I find now, even when I do go home
Speaker 3: and visit my family, that I have so little in
Speaker 3: common with them, you know, and that I have to
Speaker 3: relate on their level because God knows, you know, they're
Speaker 3: not going to turn around and just say to me,
Speaker 3: you know, yeah, well yeah, I was a bad time.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: The blood family is so interesting because I know that everyone,
Speaker 2: not everyone, but a lot of us try to hold
Speaker 2: on to it, even when the blood family is not
Speaker 2: necessarily the healthiest for us. Doesn't necessarily make us feel
Speaker 2: our safest or make us feel our softest, you know,
Speaker 2: if they do wonderful. But a lot of times, you know,
Speaker 2: we talk about people going home for Thanksgiving and dreading it.
Speaker 2: You know this generation that's you know, our generation and
Speaker 2: gen Z that's coming up as going, Hey, if it's
Speaker 2: not a safe place, I don't necessarily owe them anything.
Speaker 2: Just because you know, you gave birth to me and
Speaker 2: gave me a home which wasn't my choice to be here,
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that I now have to I owe you
Speaker 2: holidays or I owe you attention if you are not
Speaker 2: a safe space. Yeah, you know, especially as queer folks,
Speaker 2: I think that your your emotional safety is of the
Speaker 2: utmost importance. And if your family, your blood is not that,
Speaker 2: then it's okay. I say, you know, there's a boundary here,
Speaker 2: and like I'm gonna I'm gonna spend time with my
Speaker 2: chosen family, and I want to pour into the people
Speaker 2: who pour into me, regardless of if we're related, regardless
Speaker 2: of gender or sexual orientation or any of that. It's
Speaker 2: like another human who's pouring it to me and I'm
Speaker 2: pouring into them. That's where I want to be.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, I'm I'm really lucky on the blood family
Speaker 1: thing because I have great support from all of my family.
Speaker 1: In fact, for the fourth of July, my cousin always
Speaker 1: throws a big family reunion, and since it had been
Speaker 1: covid in that I hadn't been there in like five years,
Speaker 1: and they all knew about the old days. Three of
Speaker 1: them asked me for selfie and two of them asked
Speaker 1: me to talk do a video for friends of theirs
Speaker 1: who liked them. So I know, I'm a very, very
Speaker 1: lucky guy. But I've got extremely strong blood family support.
Speaker 2: That's beautiful. And let me ask you, what is it
Speaker 2: like being a celebrity now? Like going home and wonderful?
Speaker 1: I'm still Bill.
Speaker 6: Okay, that's how I feel.
Speaker 3: I'm still Bill said.
Speaker 5: It's a lot of it's a lot of fun. Yeah,
Speaker 5: it's almost every time you go out, somebody approaches you
Speaker 5: for some reason or another.
Speaker 1: And they all want to know how we started and that.
Speaker 4: Kind of thing, and I tell them to read the book.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a quick break.
Speaker 4: Welcome back to Silver Linings with the old gays.
Speaker 2: I have two questions. One is, how do you muse
Speaker 2: that we protect each other? You know, based off of
Speaker 2: having lived a life where you've had to show up
Speaker 2: for each other and where a lot of the rights
Speaker 2: that my generation has is because of the fight that
Speaker 2: your generation partook in. How do you muse that we
Speaker 2: today take care of each other and show up for
Speaker 2: each other technicogy.
Speaker 3: Well, one of the things I wanted to just say
Speaker 3: in background is you know a lot of people died
Speaker 3: for our freedom. Reason, Yeah, and I think of them,
Speaker 3: and so when I say something publicly, I think of
Speaker 3: generations that are younger than me, particularly young people between
Speaker 3: eighteen and twenty five, especially coming out. All of that
Speaker 3: has given me the courage to join in. You know,
Speaker 3: it's so important because we have to face this intimidation
Speaker 3: and we have to stand up for who we are
Speaker 3: because you know, there's no going going back into the closet.
Speaker 3: Right the world is just too too complicated and diverse
Speaker 3: in quite frankly fragmented place.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what I hear you saying is that the visibility
Speaker 2: is important, and that so whatever your whether you have
Speaker 2: a big following or a small following, it's the courage
Speaker 2: to say who you are, the truth of who you are,
Speaker 2: and show up in that way. And the other piece
Speaker 2: of it is, in terms of the activism, is that
Speaker 2: it's not just for you. It's for who's come before
Speaker 2: you and that's coming after you.
Speaker 3: You know, Like I can think of how many times
Speaker 3: at work I would hear a gay slur or I
Speaker 3: would think particularly I worked in television. Okay, I worked
Speaker 3: in show business as an actor, and talk about being
Speaker 3: behind the eight ball and having to you know, do
Speaker 3: all of that stuff, and I just in the end refused.
Speaker 3: And I suppose that cost me a career, but you know,
Speaker 3: I'd rather be true to myself and to my my
Speaker 3: peers then to be fake.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it costs you your career, but gained you your peace.
Speaker 2: And I don't think you can put a price on
Speaker 2: one's piece of mind and one piece of heart. You know,
Speaker 2: there's no there's no price sack for that piece for
Speaker 2: being able to look at yourself in the mirror and.
Speaker 6: Say I I.
Speaker 2: Know that I acted with the integrity that is aligned
Speaker 2: with the truth of who I am.
Speaker 4: That is a that is an invaluable So it all
Speaker 4: starts with self love. It really does getting getting to
Speaker 4: that point. You know, self love is.
Speaker 2: Something that we I talk about often on the show
Speaker 2: and with friends, and I'm so curious your thoughts on
Speaker 2: how one loves themselves. You know, how how do you
Speaker 2: begin that process? Like what is the starting place of
Speaker 2: learning to love yourself?
Speaker 3: It varies.
Speaker 5: I think you recognize that you are special, that you
Speaker 5: are unique, there's no other person like you, and understand
Speaker 5: who you are and be the best at that image.
Speaker 3: I think loving yourself begins with masturbation. A that's right, correct?
Speaker 3: I mean where else is it gonna start? I mean
Speaker 3: I think you know, I I learned to love myself
Speaker 3: by pleasuring myself and realizing, you know, you're a hot
Speaker 3: gay man and I wouldn't have it any other way
Speaker 3: in this life.
Speaker 6: Yeah, giving yourself pleasure like learn that. I mean, that's funny,
Speaker 6: but it's true.
Speaker 2: The masturbation and like learning how to love yourself and
Speaker 2: not being ashamed of it and and giving yourself pleasure
Speaker 2: is a form of self in the day. I feel
Speaker 2: like with self love, I try to rend that it
Speaker 2: doesn't have to be perfect. Sometimes I feel like those
Speaker 2: pursuit it's not, but the pursuit of self love is
Speaker 2: that like I'm a perfect person. It's like, no, it's
Speaker 2: loving your flaws, it's loving your insecurities. It's it's loving
Speaker 2: the best parts of you and the scary parts of you.
Speaker 2: That to me is the journey of self love. That
Speaker 2: you're not trying to be a perfect person who is
Speaker 2: worthy of love.
Speaker 3: I think we compensate for our what we feel our
Speaker 3: deficiencies are because we're queer, and so there's this kind
Speaker 3: of neuroticism that comes involved in being a perfectionist. Yes, yes,
Speaker 3: and not living or having like issues of body consciousness
Speaker 3: like that that's how we get worth yes, yes, And
Speaker 3: I think, well, you know so much gay culture, Yeah,
Speaker 3: unfortunately is a lot about that. It is about looks
Speaker 3: and it's like you know, talking about aging, is that
Speaker 3: the fear is that once you turn thirty you disappear
Speaker 3: year and that isn't what happened. Thirty is when life begins. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, oh my goodness. Yes, I'm thirty eight and I'm like,
Speaker 6: I'm just getting started. It's not you are.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're a baby, baby baby.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you for saying that, because I feel it.
Speaker 2: I feel like a baby and I feel like I've
Speaker 2: just begun. But there was a fear in my twenties
Speaker 2: and my teenage yeers that like if I had to
Speaker 2: be at a certain point by thirty, which I and
Speaker 2: when I didn't hit that, that became scary.
Speaker 6: And then in the last few years it's been like.
Speaker 2: Oh no, baby, Like some people may experience what looks
Speaker 2: like externally the success or whatever they go out at
Speaker 2: a certain age, but who you are as a person, Oh,
Speaker 2: you don't know who the hell you are yet until
Speaker 2: you're you're much further along. And that this I'm excited
Speaker 2: about the journey. I'm excited about the forties and the
Speaker 2: fifties and the sixties and it gets litter. My Angela
Speaker 2: was like, there's her masterclass when she she said the eighties.
Speaker 2: If you can make get to the eighties, the eighties
Speaker 2: are fabulous, and I really love I'm so excited.
Speaker 3: Is that is that right, Bob Phil.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yes, I never thought i'd live this long.
Speaker 1: I'm just just being able to enjoy myself now and
Speaker 1: the freedom that I have. I mean, it's it's it's
Speaker 1: the best time of my life.
Speaker 5: And I feel so content and like everything is almost
Speaker 5: in its place where it needs to be. And as
Speaker 5: long as there's not an external interruption, which is possible,
Speaker 5: that life's gonna be nice to coastone out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think one of the rituals of passage
Speaker 3: is actually to go through the death of your parents.
Speaker 3: When my father died, I called a friend of mine
Speaker 3: and I rang her up in London and I told
Speaker 3: her that my father had died. And she said, oh,
Speaker 3: you're an orphan now, yeah, And she said, you know,
Speaker 3: that's not such a bad thing. And I said why,
Speaker 3: And I said, well, you don't have anyone to answer
Speaker 3: to now, you don't have to be something you're not
Speaker 3: just to please them. Yeah, you're on your own. And
Speaker 3: in so many ways that was true. I think with
Speaker 3: both the loss of my parents, even though I grieved that,
Speaker 3: I realized that there was a certain freedom.
Speaker 6: There is I have.
Speaker 2: The you know, as somebody who's strange, there's the emotional
Speaker 2: you know, I talk about the physical passing of a
Speaker 2: parent versus the emotional passing of a parent, So I
Speaker 2: have the emotional one. And a friend of mine saw
Speaker 2: a performance of mind and they were like, you're so free?
Speaker 2: Is it because you're not in relationship with your mother?
Speaker 2: And I had never considered it that like, oh, because
Speaker 2: I'm not I'm no longer a representative of the bloodline,
Speaker 2: I can kind of play.
Speaker 3: And explore yourself. Yeah, and you can. It's self actualization, Yes,
Speaker 3: that's what they call it. And you know, you just
Speaker 3: latch onto things that interest you and you do it
Speaker 3: because they interest you and nobody else. And that's that's really,
Speaker 3: I think the first step in being an adult.
Speaker 5: And that's where creativity comes from. Daring to take that step, yes,
Speaker 5: is what generate new ideas.
Speaker 6: Can I ask, do.
Speaker 2: Y'all have any grieving rituals? I have been musing that
Speaker 2: as a culture, we are not good at talking about aging.
Speaker 2: We're not good at talking about any kind of death, emotional, physical,
Speaker 2: And so I'm so curious about building a grief practice
Speaker 2: because you know, with the change is grief. With growth
Speaker 2: comes grief. And so sometimes it's relationships, sometimes it's people.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's you know, a home that you lived in.
Speaker 2: And I'm so curious if you have any thoughts on
Speaker 2: or have your own grief rituals that you've built over
Speaker 2: the years, ways in which you've allowed yourself to feel.
Speaker 3: I do, Yeah, I do. I use music for that
Speaker 3: when I think about the dogs that I that Joel
Speaker 3: and I had raised. I have specific music that I
Speaker 3: selected for them so that whenever the music plays and
Speaker 3: it's all usually classical music, I do cry and I
Speaker 3: think about that. But you know that that was really special.
Speaker 3: And and I even have music associated with people like
Speaker 3: after I I divorced my ex, I selected a piece
Speaker 3: of music that kind of summed up the relationship and
Speaker 3: it in and let's just say, French.
Speaker 6: Lovely. How about the rest of you, any any grieving rituals.
Speaker 1: Or well, I'm I'm right along with Mick as far
Speaker 1: as that, because nothing gives me more inspiration or calms
Speaker 1: me down than classical music, especially opera. I mean, it
Speaker 1: is just it gets right into my soul and it
Speaker 1: makes grieving a lot better for me, and I feel
Speaker 1: wonderful when it's happening.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what particular music just uh Tasca.
Speaker 1: Mario is sitting down and waiting for Taska to come
Speaker 1: and he's writing the letter and then she comes in
Speaker 1: and it just explodes with glory. They're both talking about
Speaker 1: their love and going on after the pretended shooting in
Speaker 1: that and it just it just.
Speaker 3: It's heartbreaking, isn't.
Speaker 1: It it's heartbreaking. I do know what's going to happen,
Speaker 1: but it helps my grieving. You know they're grieving in
Speaker 1: another way than I am. But it's even I had
Speaker 1: a nervous breakdown. The only thing that helped me. I
Speaker 1: had no libido, couldn't care about anything. The only thing
Speaker 1: I cared about was opera. It's what kept me going.
Speaker 4: I remember when my partner passed away. It was the
Speaker 4: most confusing time of my life because I had to
Speaker 4: grow up. And I remember getting songs that I was
Speaker 4: listening but I didn't realize I was that would just
Speaker 4: like say something speak to where you are, and all
Speaker 4: of a sudden you just break down crying. I've had
Speaker 4: to sit on the fry side a freeway doing it
Speaker 4: because I didn't know how to grieve. I thought I'd
Speaker 4: have my black leather gloves, my big hat and go,
Speaker 4: but society said, no, you don't do that. It was,
Speaker 4: it was. It was quite a journey. I finally did
Speaker 4: go to a support group to learn how to just live,
Speaker 4: and it got me off of me and got me
Speaker 4: helping another lady who had her son's remain sitting on
Speaker 4: the fireplace or something, and I told her I says,
Speaker 4: that's just death. It's just death hanging in your house.
Speaker 4: Get it out. And we actually went out and did
Speaker 4: the ship thing with him, and she says, this is
Speaker 4: really good. Thank you.
Speaker 3: I says, yeah, it helped me too, to get through
Speaker 3: it with you. You know, that reminds me of a
Speaker 3: story about funerals. This is told to me. This family
Speaker 3: they were burying one son who had died from HIV
Speaker 3: and what at the other brother. It's who's key came in? Drag?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 5: How wild?
Speaker 3: Now that's current that Wow.
Speaker 6: What a way to hunt way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh that's awesome.
Speaker 6: That's beautiful.
Speaker 4: I bet he wore flats. It's hard to work at
Speaker 4: the stabilize.
Speaker 6: Those hills are a lot.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but I think he went into his
Speaker 3: mother's closet. This was a very wealthy family in Beverly
Speaker 3: Hill and I can't say the name, but she had
Speaker 3: she was a former model, and she had an entire room.
Speaker 3: You know how those danger they had walking closet, you know, Nicole,
Speaker 3: it's all of that.
Speaker 6: Yes, Bob, do you have any grieving rituals?
Speaker 5: I become very quiet, very inner focused, and very analytical,
Speaker 5: and I try to look at what the cause of
Speaker 5: the grief as a problem to be solved and how
Speaker 5: that fits into a larger picture, and to understand more
Speaker 5: what's happening to what has happened to this piece of
Speaker 5: that larger picture, and just kind of work it out
Speaker 5: mentally until I reach a point that I'm satisfied I've
Speaker 5: solved the problem and I can move on.
Speaker 3: Well, actually, he can get quite emotional, so you.
Speaker 6: Know, he cries, he'll cry.
Speaker 3: He also knocks down doors with a hammer.
Speaker 5: So just there are too okay, perfect Brandon, Yes, to
Speaker 5: wrap us up. Huh.
Speaker 1: What's been your silver lining for being a part of
Speaker 1: the queer community?
Speaker 2: The permission, the invitation, and the embracing of being able
Speaker 2: to be my full self? You know, I think that
Speaker 2: there are as a queer person, you're really given the
Speaker 2: runway to be an express how you want to. And
Speaker 2: that is not always true when you're outside of the
Speaker 2: queer community.
Speaker 6: There's a lot more boxes.
Speaker 2: And in the queer community, I felt like I've been
Speaker 2: given permission to break the boxes and live, like to
Speaker 2: build my own blueprint as opposed to follow following a
Speaker 2: societal one. And so that has been a gift that
Speaker 2: I will continue to honor and perish.
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, thanks so much for sharing. It's so wonderful.
Speaker 4: Thanks for being with, Thank you for listen.
Speaker 2: Can I say before I go that this I was
Speaker 2: so excited to come here. I know that the videos
Speaker 2: that y'all do and the content that you create is
Speaker 2: always so fun and joyful, but it also has the
Speaker 2: greatest impact being like we started this conversation talking about representation,
Speaker 2: and so to be able to see the four of you,
Speaker 2: to see your friendship means so much to me and
Speaker 2: so many people. And so thank you for for being
Speaker 2: for being out loud, for using your platform, for bringing
Speaker 2: joy to all of our hearts.
Speaker 6: It is just it's really healing in a way that
Speaker 6: I won't.
Speaker 2: Be able to fully explain to you, and you may
Speaker 2: not fully be able to feel, but just know that
Speaker 2: you are healing so many people by just being so
Speaker 2: thank you.
Speaker 6: Thank you, Thank your friend and keep up your work.
Speaker 6: Thank you. I will talk to you so.
Speaker 4: Love you.
Speaker 3: Is this a rap?
Speaker 4: We're done by?
Speaker 3: It's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 4: Thank you to everyone who tuned into our first season
Speaker 4: of the show.
Speaker 1: Silver Linings is a production of Iheart's Ruby Studios and
Speaker 1: The Outspoken Network. We're your hosts Bill Lyons.
Speaker 4: Robert Breeves, Mick Peterson, and Jesse Martin.
Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Sierra Kaiser. The episode was written
Speaker 1: by Ryan Amador with post production by Eric Zeiler. Our
Speaker 1: theme music was composed by Max Heirschanau, with audio direction
Speaker 1: and design by Matt Stillo. And don't forget to rate
Speaker 1: and review the show whenever you get your podcasts. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening, all.
Speaker 5: Right, bye now bye bye bye bye bye bye eighty
Speaker 5: five
Speaker 1: Mm hmm