1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: When you give yourself permission to pursue your dreams. That 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: is the moment that your life begins. It's when you 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: stop being a spectator and you start being the man 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: in the arena. Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, 5 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 1: the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: each and every one of you that come back every 7 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: week to listen, learn, and grow. Now you know that 8 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: I love to sit down with fascinating people with incredible stories, 9 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: and especially people who share that through the written word. 10 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan of books, you know. I'm always 11 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: sharing my favorite books with you. And when I saw 12 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:44,599 Speaker 1: this book come out, i'd met this individual and the 13 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: author probably a few months before the book was announced, 14 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: and we connected at a really special roundtable, which we'll 15 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: share in our interview, and I was really taken aback 16 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: by his journey and as I research more about his story, 17 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: I was blown away by the decisions he's made, the 18 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: choices he's made. And I'm speaking about the one and 19 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: only Seemu Leu who made history as the star of 20 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: the first Asian fronted movie in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. 21 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: And of course, if you haven't seen it, I highly 22 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: highly recommend It, and which garnered him the People's Choice 23 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 1: Award for Favorite Action Movie Star. Seemu also starred in 24 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: the award winning CBC and Netflix comedy series Kim's Convenience, 25 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: which won the Actra Awards for Outstanding Ensemble in twenty 26 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: seventeen and Best Comedy Series at the twenty eighteen Canadian 27 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: Screen Awards. It was the first Canadian television series with 28 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 1: an all Asian lead cast. The series chronicles the day 29 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: to day microdramas encountered by Korean immigrant family that runs 30 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: a corner grocery store. Now seemu list of accolades now 31 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: is unbelievable. Beyond all of this. He's a super cool guy, 32 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: down to earth, a wonderful human being. And he does 33 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: insane backflips. I've seen them in real life, not just 34 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: in movies. Welcome to the show, Seema, lu Seema, thanks 35 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 1: for being here. Man Jay, it's such a pleasure. Thank you, 36 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. And for that 37 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: pretty amazing introduction. Well, you had to live it. You 38 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: had to live it. So I'm pretty sure you've lived 39 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: an amazing life. If the introduction is like and that's 40 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: the scratching the surface. But I really mean it. Man. 41 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: When we met, we met, when Hussan put together Hussan's 42 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: been on the show too. Hussan Minhaj put together a 43 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: YouTube round table. I believe it was to talk about 44 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: the AAPI community. We had this amazing dinner together. That 45 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: was the first time we'd met. You did a backflip 46 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: for us in the waiting area out to us. I 47 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: wanted to say that I really enjoyed connecting with you. 48 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: And then, like you were saying, we were just together 49 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: a week ago after the oscars. Tell me about why 50 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: that roundtable was important to you at the time. I'm 51 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: just intrigued, Like, because obviously there was there was such 52 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,799 Speaker 1: a diverse group of us. Do you remember what it 53 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 1: was for you that that really inspired you to be there? 54 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, the the context of that round table 55 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: and what was going on at the time, and by 56 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: the way, still continues to happen to this day. Is 57 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: um is just this this rise in in anti Asian 58 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: anti api UM sentiment and hate that's been going around 59 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: I want to say America, but it's really kind of 60 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: just pervasive. It's it's been kind of everywhere in the 61 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: Western world UM and over the last couple of years, 62 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: you know, in the wake of COVID, there's just this 63 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: there's been the sense that, you know, we are being 64 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: blamed for something that is that that we have absolutely 65 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: no part in, and it's partially because of you know, 66 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: the color of our skin and just just who we are, 67 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: and there are there are deeply rooted um you know, 68 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: aspects that that I made sure I wanted to attack 69 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: in that round table. You know, this idea of a 70 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: model minority myth, this idea of a perpetual foreigner that 71 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: you know, no matter how many generations a family could 72 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: have immigrated from a country, that just because we have 73 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: this face, there's a perception that we're always outsiders. And 74 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: so you know, that's when when people ask me where 75 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: you from, know where you're really from, and a lot 76 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,119 Speaker 1: of Asian Americans will know or will have been asked 77 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: that question, and it's like, no, I grew up I 78 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: grew up here. You know, what are you talking about. 79 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,919 Speaker 1: I'm I'm a Canadian citizen or an American citizen. I 80 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: pay American taxes and I deserve to be treated as 81 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: a citizen of the country, not scapegoaded as an other, 82 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: you know, And so I think that was the spirit 83 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: of of you know what we were talking about, and 84 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: you know again, yeah, I was such an incredible pleasure 85 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: talking to you Jam and that backflip. I have to say, 86 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: I it's just for anybody who's wondering, like, why the 87 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 1: f does this guy just go and do backflips? It 88 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: was because Caitlin O'Hashi was one of the people on 89 00:04:57,800 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: our round table, and so I was talking to her. 90 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you know I dabbled and tumbling 91 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: back in the day, and she was like, oh yeah. 92 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I could, I could do a backflip, 93 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: and she was like, okay, show, yeah, I want to. 94 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: I want to support you there, Seemo and say, Seema 95 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 1: just doesn't just go around doing backflips. It was a 96 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: very specific situation. But I was more impressed because you 97 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: were doing it in like dress pants and like dress shoes. 98 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: It was not like you weren't like ready for it. 99 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 1: It's not like you were prepared for it. So that's 100 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: a risky maneuver. Looking back, I must have I had 101 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: a lot of faith in the in the stretchiness of 102 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: you did you did, and it was before the event. 103 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: But Seema, today we're talking about your book We Were Dreamers, 104 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: which is beautiful title, an immigrant superhero origin story, and 105 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: I just want to say to everyone who's listening or 106 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: watching right now, I highly recommend that you go and 107 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: grab a copy of this book. When this episode is out, 108 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 1: the book will be available, so I highly recommend you 109 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 1: get Amazon, Bonds and Noble wherever it is there it is. 110 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 1: Seemo has one of the early copies. I have the 111 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 1: PDF on my phone digital, my digital version that I 112 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: had for preparing for this interview. I was very lucky 113 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: to have an early PDF copy, but highly recommend it 114 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: We Were Dreamers that I highly recommend you go and 115 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 1: get seem I want to start talking to you about. 116 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: You know, my wife and I saw Shang Chi with 117 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: a mutual friend of ours Dorothy, who I believe you 118 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: know as well, and so yes, so we three went 119 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 1: to see the movie together. We loved it, you know, 120 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 1: huge fans of the movie. It was. It was phenomenal. 121 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: But what I know is that you sent a tweet 122 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: years ago, right back in twenty eighteen, where you kind 123 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 1: of said that you wanted to play the role. Now 124 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: you've talked about the tweet before. I guess what I'm 125 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: fascinated about more is how did you have the confidence 126 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 1: back in twenty eighteen or the lack of fear to 127 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: put yourself out there when that's a really vulnerable space 128 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 1: to be. Like I think today, when I'm thinking about 129 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 1: the people that listen to us, they'd be thinking, Oh, 130 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,119 Speaker 1: I'd never send that out because what if I didn't 131 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: get it? Or i would never go to that audition 132 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: because I'm too scared, or I'm feeling a lot of 133 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: anxiety around starting my own business because I'm struggling with this, 134 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: this and this. So we as a society struggled to 135 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: put ourselves out there. What gave you the confidence back 136 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: then or the lack of confidence, whatever, What was going 137 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: through your head when you send a tweet like that? 138 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: The delusion? No, No, that's an incredible question, Jay. It 139 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: where I was mentally in twenty eighteen, and just in 140 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: general in my life, just being an actor in the 141 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: industry that was working. That was the culmination of a 142 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: lot of years of work on myself personally. And you know, 143 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: if you've read the book, you'll know I had You know, 144 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: I spent a lot of my life that being that 145 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: guy that was petrified of judgment and of the opinions 146 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: of others and of putting his true self out there. 147 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: And where that got me was in a you know, 148 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: I was I was working as an accountant, hated my job, 149 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: and then you know, eventually found myself unemployed because I 150 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: was I was laid off. And the moment that I 151 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: started to give myself permission and of course the catalyst. 152 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: I hope that the catalyst for everyone is not this 153 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: rock bottom moment where you lose your job, but um, 154 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: for me, that's what it was. It was this idea 155 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: of like, I have nothing else to lose, so I 156 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: might as well do something that makes me happy. And 157 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: what you know what, incidentally that ended up being was 158 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: logging on a chryslist and um, you know, searching for 159 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,199 Speaker 1: acting jobs, even even though I had no idea how 160 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: the industry worked, I didn't know anybody. But you know, 161 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: I remember that feeling of being on set for the 162 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: first time as a movie extra and being so enamored 163 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: and blown away by the energy by the people, and 164 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: just wanting to do anything that I could to get 165 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: back right. And you know, in the years that i'm 166 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: since I made that decision, I just feel like, you know, 167 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: that lesson has been has been learned in spades of 168 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,959 Speaker 1: this idea of like it all starts with permission. And 169 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: I remember I said this when I was on stage 170 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: accepting my People's Choice award. Is that when you give 171 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: yourself permission to pursue your dreams, that is the moment 172 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: that you can actually that your life begins. Right. It's 173 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: it's when you stop being a spectator and you start 174 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: being the man in the arena, you know. And for me, 175 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: you know that this tweets and Jay, by the way, 176 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: this tweet is only one of the many things that 177 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: I did over the course of my career manifesting this 178 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: kind of superhero role for myself. I wanted to play 179 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 1: a superhero ever since since day one, you know. And 180 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 1: I had like written short films for myself where I 181 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: played a superhero. I you know, tweeted Marvel back in 182 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,959 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, Hey Marvel, how about an Asian superhero? And 183 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: then yeah, in twenty eighteen when they announced the movie, 184 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: I thought, well why not? You know what's the worst. 185 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: The worst thing that can happen is that they cast 186 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: someone else. But no one's you know, no one, no one, 187 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: no one's gonna be talking about me anyway, and so 188 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: kind of tongue in cheek. I made that tweet. I 189 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: was like, Hey, Marvel, we're gonna talk or what. And 190 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: of course then I suspected this and I had it 191 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: verified multiple times. Kevin Figy never read the tweet. Anyone, 192 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: nobody at Marvel or anybody along the decision making process 193 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,839 Speaker 1: ever read the tweet. But I kind of love that, right, 194 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: because the manifestation is not for anybody but yourself. It's 195 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 1: for you to set a sight in the horizon, be 196 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: it wherever. You know, You pick a direction and you say, 197 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm ever going to get there, 198 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: but that's the direction I'm headed, and I'm just gonna 199 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go. And and that's that was the 200 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 1: mentality that I had been living with, you know, ever 201 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 1: since I made the decision to pursue active that I love. 202 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: I love that point you just made. I think that 203 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: is such a brilliant distinction between how we envision how 204 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: manifesting works and how it actually works. Like that distinction 205 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: that Seema just said, the idea that the tweet was 206 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: for him to believe it, to put it out there, 207 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: to feel it, to become really confident that that's what 208 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: I want to do. That was for him and no 209 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:08,839 Speaker 1: one saw it. And I love that no one saw 210 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: it too, Like, I'm totally with you. I think that's 211 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: that's incredible. So I want to go back a bit 212 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: into the book where you talk about your childhood. And 213 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: I love hearing about people's childhood because I think we 214 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: underestimate how much our childhood impacts how we grow up. 215 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: Like I always say to people that their their adult 216 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: pursuits are based on the inner child's needs. Most people's 217 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: adult pursuits are based on what they didn't have as 218 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: a child. Now, can you share with us the relationship 219 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: you had with your parents growing up, because you grew 220 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: up with your grandparents, right, So can you walk us 221 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,439 Speaker 1: through that scenario? Absolutely? Yeah. So I was born in 222 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: a city in northeastern China called Harbin or Harbin, and 223 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: shortly after I was born, my parents actually immigrated to Canada. 224 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 1: They were pursuing, you know, their higher education. So my 225 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: father was studying his PhD. And then he was able 226 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: to bring my mother over and they actually ended up 227 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: studying at the same university, Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario. 228 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: Shout out to queens and and you know it was 229 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: it was not feasible at the time for them to 230 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: bring you know, a newborn baby with them. They would 231 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: have had to basically I would have been a full 232 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: time job in and of myself. But then they also 233 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: had to maintain a full course load, they had to 234 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: do research. You know. Um, it just didn't make sense. 235 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: And of course there was not enough money. We were 236 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: so poor, like they didn't have any money to pay 237 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: for childcare at all. So, um, it really made sense 238 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: to leave me in the in the care of my grandparents, 239 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: so really like they were the ones who raised me. 240 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 1: And for about four and a half years, I lived 241 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: what I believed to be a pretty idyllic life in China. 242 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: I know, I knew that I had parents, kind of 243 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: conceptually that my grandparents were not my parents, but I 244 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: also didn't really care. I had I had people who 245 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: loved me, I had a tribe, I had a family, 246 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: and you know, we slept in the same bed every 247 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: single night, and I just I went to sleep feeling 248 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,959 Speaker 1: like my heart was full and that I was loved 249 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: and that was really you know, at the end of 250 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: the day, you don't really need anything more than that. 251 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: That being said, one day when I'm about four and 252 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: a half, stranger shows up at the door and he says, 253 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 1: I'm your dad. I'm your dad, and I'm here to 254 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: take you to this new life in Canada where everything 255 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: is better. You know. Um, you know, we have so 256 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: many more opportunities in Canada, and your mother and I 257 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: are working on building a life in Canada. You're going 258 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: to come with us and be in our family and 259 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, but can I bring my grandparents? 260 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: You know that, like the fundamental you think about a 261 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 1: child and what's going on in his mind. He's like, 262 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: but but I don't want to say good. I don't 263 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 1: want to leave my grandparents. They're my family. But you 264 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 1: know that that was, you know, the whole family was 265 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: kind together on this kind of messaging, and I was 266 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: eventually convinced or careerced to to leave the country and 267 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: to go with my dad to Canada. And um, you know, effectively, 268 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 1: if you really think about it, jay I was I 269 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: was adopted by my own biological parents at age five, 270 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: and you know, whereas for my parents, I think it 271 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: must have felt like this happy ending because after so 272 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: many years apart, the families finally together, you know, we 273 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: could finally live our happily happily ever moment in this 274 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: new country. What it ended up being was a lot 275 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: more complicated than that in truth, in reality, because you know, 276 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: first and foremost, my parents didn't know who I was. 277 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: They had no idea the person that I had grown 278 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: to become. You know, a lot of things set by 279 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: the time you're you know, at the age of four 280 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: and a half five developmentally, you know, a lot of 281 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: things about your personality solidify, and I think they were 282 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: surprised by the child that they eventually got, you know. 283 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: And you know, the other thing too, is that they 284 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: had no learning curve in parenting. It's just one day 285 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: they were all of a sudden responsible for this child. 286 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: And you know, whereas if you had given birth and 287 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: you had stayed by your baby day after day, you 288 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: would have at least kind of like had the ability 289 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: to learn as things were going. But then there was 290 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: this whole gap in time where they just you know, 291 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: they didn't know. And and so what ensued in the 292 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: in the next like I want to say, like one 293 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: or one and a half decades, was you know, a 294 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: lot of intergenerational conflict and budding of heads and just 295 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: like you know, parents and myself. I didn't have any siblings, 296 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: but just me and my parents just having different expectations 297 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: of each other, you know, fundamentally misunderstanding each other and 298 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: oftentimes getting into big blowout arguments sometimes you know, with violence, 299 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: and and you know, not not great, not great times altogether. 300 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: But evidently you know the book, you know, having been 301 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: out and handing come full circle so many years later, 302 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: you know, I'm my parents are my best friends today 303 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: and it's the recognition of that journey that we went 304 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: on together that really catalyzed the creation of this book. 305 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: So I'm really really excited to talk about it for 306 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: people to read it. Thank you for sharing that with us, 307 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: because I think you know, today everyone sees you as 308 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: the superhero, and they see you as obviously you're just 309 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: crushing it right now, and you don't realize that there's 310 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: a real person behind all of this, and there's a 311 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: real journey and a real story, and there's a real 312 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: real life is the right word. I think we disconnect superheroes, 313 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: and that's why origin stories have always been so fascinating 314 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: as kids of like, well, how did this person get there. 315 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: And I love that you called this your origin story 316 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: because it does feel very grounded. There's this line in 317 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: the book that I've that really resonated with me, and 318 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: I think it's even more fascinating against the backdrop of 319 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: what you just said. And you said that my parents, 320 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: like many in their generation, were willing to sacrifice greatly 321 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: so they could provide financial stability for their children. And 322 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:16,719 Speaker 1: the reason why that resonated with me is I think 323 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 1: a lot of people can connect with that. When I 324 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 1: hear that, it sounds like you reconcile their shortcomings with 325 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: what they were able, what they were trying to do, 326 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: at least from an intention point of view. What do 327 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 1: you think you what do you think you learned during 328 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 1: that time? Not now, I love hearing that you're best 329 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: friends now and you've really connected, But what do you 330 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,199 Speaker 1: think you took away during that time when it wasn't 331 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: great and it was painful? Were you what were you learning? 332 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: What were you developing at that time? I mean I 333 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: think I was. I think I was developing an internalized 334 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: sense of hatred for my own identity. I could every 335 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: day at home this constant battle of culture and values 336 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: and you know language, because you know, we were speaking 337 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: in different languages to each other, how could we possibly 338 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: fully understand where each you know, the other came from. 339 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 1: So I, you know, I grew up under the assumption of, like, 340 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: I've got the worst parents in the world. They're embarrassing 341 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: to be around, they're embarrassing to take in public, and 342 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: they don't understand, you know, whereas you know, all of 343 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: my friends and my peers they have parents who understand. 344 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: Our children like to go out, our children like to 345 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 1: go to parties, you know. For for me and my parents, 346 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: you know, they were so fixated on this idea of 347 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: academic success being the only way out, or being the 348 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: only way to maintain the level of stability and to 349 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 1: keep a roof over our heads that they were just like, 350 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,360 Speaker 1: you shouldn't be doing this, you need to be studying. 351 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: You know. That was the messaging that was constantly being 352 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: repeated time and time again. And you know, without kind 353 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: of hitting too hard, this idea of a tiger parent 354 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,199 Speaker 1: that I hate that narrative. You know, it really just 355 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 1: comes from you know, my parents coming to and I'm 356 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: starting to I'm starting to look back now, so you 357 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: stop me. Whenever it's starting to get no love. No, 358 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: I love it, and you're self aware. But but you know, 359 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: my parents came here with nothing, and so the anxiety 360 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: of that an immigrant feels, I think is something that 361 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: you know, even I never understood because I was sheltered 362 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: from it, right, like of course, but but looking back 363 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 1: and like, of course, my parents were obsessed with the 364 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 1: idea of having a stable career, and of course they 365 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: they didn't pause to think about what they were passionate 366 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: about doing. They just wanted to. They knew they were 367 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: electrical engineers, so they were like, this is my trade, 368 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: this is my craft. I can get work like this 369 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: and I can build a future for my family. And 370 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: if I teach my son to do the same, he 371 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: will be able to do the same thing for his family. 372 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: And when you look at it that way, you're like, 373 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: of course they acted that way, but but yeah, at 374 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: the time, it really made me resent them, and it 375 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: made me resent their their value in their culture, which 376 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: incidentally is my culture, you know, Yeah, and I regret 377 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,719 Speaker 1: that very typically. No, I love how real this is 378 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: because I can relate to that as a South Asian 379 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,959 Speaker 1: growing up in London. It was the same thing my 380 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: mom moved to London when she was sixteen. She had 381 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: to like find a job, economic stability, like you know, 382 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 1: they didn't. They didn't have wealth and family or anything 383 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: in England. And then you know, it's like I grew 384 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: up with the same messaging and it was for the 385 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: same reasons. But I think it's so important that that 386 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 1: time doesn't turn into bitterness for us or that feeling 387 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: of resentment towards our parents long term, because when we 388 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: do try and understand what you're sharing with us, you're like, Oh, 389 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 1: it's not that you it's it's not that it's okay 390 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,679 Speaker 1: that they didn't think about these things. It's that you 391 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: understand why they didn't have the time, right, it's like reconciling. 392 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: So you tell a story in the book when your mother, 393 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: I believe, locked you outside of the whole way. Uh, 394 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,959 Speaker 1: do you mind sharing boughts of that story with us 395 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 1: about how different you think parenting was in your home 396 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: compared to others, because I think that really highlighted that 397 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: difference you spoke about. Yeah, and I mean I mean 398 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 1: the way that my parents treated me. It was also also, 399 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: by the way, very different than the way that my grandparents, 400 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 1: you know, ever interacted with me. And I truly believe, 401 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,360 Speaker 1: like you know, with my idea, yeah and my nine 402 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,439 Speaker 1: nine like we we they were. They were perfect and 403 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 1: every every possible sense of the word. You know, they 404 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: were affectionate, They you know, we were reasonable that it 405 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 1: wasn't like they spoiled me to become this like total 406 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: entitled brat. Um. You know, they were reasonable, They taught lessons, 407 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: they were patient, and and with my parents, I feel like, 408 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 1: you know, that patience just wasn't there. And of course 409 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: they were you know, a lot younger. They had you know, 410 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,439 Speaker 1: had to take class, they were busy, they were anxious 411 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 1: about other things. But um, this I'll never forget. The 412 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: first time that I was really punished was was when 413 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 1: I you know, I wrote in the book and I 414 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 1: had you know, I think my dad had just picked 415 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: me up from school and he was, you know, kind 416 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: of like, well, what did you do at school today? 417 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,959 Speaker 1: And it was just this really innocent lie. But we 418 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: had gone swimming, so I said, oh, we were we 419 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: were swimming, and and my dad was like, well, are 420 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 1: you know, are are you fast? Are you who's the 421 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: fastest kid in the class? And because I just wanted 422 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,239 Speaker 1: to impress my parents. I was like I am, and 423 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: he was like are you sure? And and then I 424 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: don't know how this. I mean, it sounds ridiculous to 425 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: say now, but I was like, you know, after a while, 426 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: I was like, no, I'm not sure. I was lying. 427 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 1: And I mean, like, how like it's not like we 428 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 1: all hopped in a pool and the and the and 429 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: the instructor was like, all right, everybody, we're gonna grade this, 430 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: being like everyone was just having fun. But of course 431 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,919 Speaker 1: I just, you know, I just really wanted I just 432 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: really wanted to impress them, and uh and and so 433 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, it wasn't It was I was lying. 434 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 1: And my dad was like, Okay, you did the right thing. 435 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:57,919 Speaker 1: You told the truth. And I was like, yeah, you know, 436 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: please don't tell mom, because because my mother is as 437 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: you know, as tough as my dad is, my mom 438 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 1: was like the real um enforcer of the family, like 439 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: very vicious and specific with her words, like just the 440 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: words that cut you all. You have this one parent 441 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: that sometimes, you know whose words just cut a little 442 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: bit deeper. That was my mom. And so I was like, 443 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 1: can you please not tell don't tell Mama? Like please, um? 444 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: And he was like, okay, okay, I won't. And later 445 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: on that night at dinner, you know, we're together and 446 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 1: my mom was like, so, how is school, um, and 447 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, it's fine. We went swimming and 448 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: I my dad. I remember this so vividly, and it's 449 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,199 Speaker 1: so funny because when I tell him, he doesn't but 450 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 1: I'm like, no, this happens. My dad sold me out. 451 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: So he promised me that he wasn't going to tell 452 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: my mom, and then he was like, SIMU told a 453 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 1: lie today, And basically, like literally the moment that he 454 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: finished saying it, my mom was out of her chair, 455 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: you know, and grabbed my hand, led me out of 456 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: the door, you know, shut it in my face and 457 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: it locked it, and I was I was out. I 458 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: mean for a for a five year old, you know, 459 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: for a six year old, it's probably like fifteen minutes. 460 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 1: For me, it felt like forever. And I was struggling 461 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: with so many things, you know, like, you know, first 462 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: of all, I was I was being disciplined in a 463 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: way that I had never been before. My dad had 464 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: like betrayed my trust. So it was really it was 465 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: a really um pivotal moment in my time in Canada 466 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 1: because I really felt quite alone. You know, I missed 467 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: my grandparents. I wanted to be home. I was promised, 468 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: I was sold on this utopic life in this new 469 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 1: country when it really all I wanted was to go back, 470 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: you know. Um so so yeah. That I mean that 471 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: that kind of was the was the catalyzing moment for 472 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 1: everything that that came after A really foreshadowed all of 473 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: the conflicts that we would that we would have issues 474 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: about trust, you know, the physical, physical discipline, and just 475 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: remember feeling so alone out in that hallway. What I've 476 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: find so great about this book and why I want 477 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,479 Speaker 1: everyone to read it as as fans of yours, as 478 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,239 Speaker 1: people who are struggling with their own identity in their 479 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: own journey. Maybe there's people who've listening and watching who've 480 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: moved city, moved country. Maybe you've actually gone through an 481 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 1: adoption process, maybe you've moved with your family. Like the 482 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: reason why it's so powerful is your memory is really vivid. 483 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: Like it's it's amazing how strong these moments are. And 484 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: that's why I wanted you to share that story, because 485 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: it's like a lot of people I speak to don't 486 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: really have strong memories of five six years old, Like 487 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: a lot of people's memories don't start till a lot later, 488 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 1: memories that they can really hold on to. And so 489 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: one of the things I do, I think you do 490 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: so beautifully as a writer in this book, is that 491 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: we really go back with you, like we're really there 492 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: in that environment. Like it almost feels like I'm watching 493 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: the movie, right. So I just want to congratulate you 494 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 1: from from a writing point of view that it's it's 495 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: so strong that I really feel like I'm there, And 496 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: that's why the books a power full bit case. You 497 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 1: know who hates that, by the way, is my parents. 498 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: When they read they're like, like, we've had so many conversations, 499 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 1: and you know, they've been so wonderfully supportive about the book, 500 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: and I definitely couldn't have written it without them, you know, 501 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: without the cooperation and the hours and hours of sitting 502 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: together going beat by beat. You know, um, you know 503 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: that the story starts in their infancy and their formative 504 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 1: years in China in the sixties and seventies. You know, 505 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: I really wanted readers to have that perspective as well. 506 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: But it's really funny. They're like they just they read 507 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,199 Speaker 1: those parts and they're like the world is going to 508 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: hate us. Yeah, why would you air out all of 509 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: our dirty all of the worst things that we've ever done. 510 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: And you know, you know, I've been very I've tried 511 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: to be very diplomatic with them throughout the whole process. 512 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: I'm like, with the most amount of love ever, I'm like, yeah, 513 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: but you did those things. And you know, when you're 514 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 1: when you're young too, you're so impressionable. It's like you 515 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 1: remember those cuts, those you know, and every child has them. 516 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: They're those moments where you know, if if a parent 517 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: not being there when they wanted them to be, and 518 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: and you know, of course no parent is perfect, and 519 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: you're always going to have those moments as a child, 520 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: but they exist. And I feel like my goal is to, 521 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: you know, in telling the story is not some sort 522 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 1: of retribution for the way that they treated me or 523 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 1: spoke to me, but it's that you know, comes from 524 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,400 Speaker 1: this idea or responding to this idea that so many 525 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: immigrant families will will internalize what goes on and it's 526 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: not you know, it's not common practice for us to 527 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: share in these in these moments, share these memories and 528 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: these stories, and what it can create is this really 529 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 1: isolating environment for the children and you know, and oftentimes 530 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: to the parents as well. You know it when when 531 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 1: you come to a new country with no support system, 532 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: it can it already feels so isolating. And so what 533 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: I wanted to do with with the book and with 534 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: the story was to show immigrant children everywhere that they're 535 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: not alone and that you know, it's okay to be vulnerable, 536 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: it's okay to share. And you know, there are millions 537 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: and millions more stories just like this, and the way out, 538 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: you know, the way to, you know, not necessarily the 539 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: solution to all things, but certainly, you know, a step 540 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: in coping is in sharing and in you know, finding 541 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 1: community and a sense of you know, of identity and commonality. Yeah. Well, 542 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: I think when you're sharing your private experiences publicly, that's 543 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: going to help people intern with their private lives, right, Like, 544 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: that's what's happening here. It's like people being able to 545 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: see like, yeah, that's exactly what I had at home, 546 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: or that was similar. What I'm really interested by seeing 547 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: is like, actually, the fact that you just said that 548 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: your parents were a part of the process, and of 549 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: course you talk about them in the book and tell 550 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: their journey to me. Actually, that's a beautiful healing story 551 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: in and of itself that here you are airing out, 552 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: as you said, dirty laundry, but actually the people all involved, 553 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: our friends and a family, tell us about what was 554 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 1: some of the steps to repairing and amending that connection 555 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: as you grew and matured, because I think that's what 556 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: most of us need help with with our parents is 557 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: we may even understand what they did and why they 558 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: did it, but to really have a positive relationship with 559 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: them as we get older. That's an amazing story in 560 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: and of itself. What was some of those early steps 561 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: that you took to reflect, repair and amend I would 562 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: say the first steps toward well, first of all, to 563 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: paint the picture of what things were like the first 564 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: couple of years when I decided to throw away my 565 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: entire education and pursue a career in the arts. You 566 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: can imagine, you know, my parents were not pleased and 567 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: there was a there was almost like two years where 568 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: we rarely spoke to each other. It was it was 569 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: just very you know, things were very tense. And then 570 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: I booked a show called Blood and Water is my 571 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: very first you know, series regular role. I was in 572 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: the main cast, and the reason I booked this role, um, 573 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: you know, apart from giving a not bad audition, was 574 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: was I was one of the only actors in the 575 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: country who could speak Mandarin fluently, and so I had 576 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: a bilingual character. I was in a hotel room in Vancouver, 577 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: I had monologues and monologues in Chinese and I couldn't read. 578 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: I was I'm not literate in Chinese, right, So it's 579 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 1: a very difficult language. It's I think easy to be 580 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: able to speak, it relatively impossible to learn the work 581 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: because there's no alphabet system. It's just really you either 582 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: know the word or you don't. And I needed help. 583 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: So I rang my parents up and I was like, 584 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: you need to you need to help me with this, 585 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: and they very begrudgingly, we're you know, got on the 586 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: phone with me, and I feel like in the process 587 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: of that connection, you know, the process of that of 588 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: that um you know, learning, there was a connection that 589 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: was formed, and my parents came to understand just how 590 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: hard I was willing to to work, you know, because 591 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 1: I think up until that point their mentality was of 592 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: sim Simu doesn't have the toughness, you know, he couldn't. 593 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: He wasn't tough enough to maintain a job at you know, Deloitte, 594 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: with the accounting firm that I worked at. Um you know, 595 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: Seema just lacks mental fortitude. And I think that was 596 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: the first time that they had their belief system challenged 597 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: that they were like, oh, Seemu's very mentally resilient and 598 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: he is willing to work hard. It's just that he 599 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: it's you know, it's just different passions. It was something 600 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: else that was calling him. And from that point on, 601 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: I think they started to really buy into my career 602 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: and they started to share in the wins and the losses, 603 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: because before then they didn't really care. You know, I'd 604 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: say hey, they'd be like, what's new. I'd be like, hey, 605 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: I booked. I booked a commercial for this restaurant. You know, 606 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: it's going all across Canada and they'd be like, great, 607 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: so we so you threw away in education in private 608 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:57,479 Speaker 1: school and four years of university to make commercials for 609 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: people to watch. Congratulations, Like, they were pretty savage about it. 610 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: So this was the first time that they started to 611 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: really like, you know, maybe respect my decision and what 612 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: I was doing. And you know, shortly after that, I 613 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: thankfully booked a show called Kim's Convenience, which ended up 614 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: being this you know, big hit, I mean countries all 615 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: around the world, and you know, catapulted me out of 616 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: this like destitute state of like credit card debt artistry 617 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: to you know, being kind of somewhat middle class and 618 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: and you know, just not worried about where my next 619 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 1: job was going to come from. UM, and from there, 620 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: you know, from then on, I think they really started 621 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: to be to be cheerleaders. But of course, you know, 622 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean, you know, just because there was an 623 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: external success in our in our lives, it doesn't necessarily 624 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: mean that the relationship is all in good. You know, 625 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: I was still very aware that I had trauma and 626 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: resentment inside me, and so in UM, somewhere around that time, 627 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say when, because my mother's going to 628 00:32:54,280 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 1: murder me. But my mother turned sixty and it's so 629 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: sensitive about it. Oh my god, she's gonna kill me. 630 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: And for her sixtieth birthday, I was writing her this 631 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: card that was that was very kind of just generic 632 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: by all means, you know, happy birthday. I love you. 633 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 1: That's sort of actually not I love you, just kind 634 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: of happy birthday at all that sort of stuff. And 635 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: then I kind of stopped myself and I was like, 636 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: there are so many things that I want to say 637 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: to this woman, you know, and I just I can't 638 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: keep going pretending like things are fine. I felt like 639 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: that we were all just kind of in this playing 640 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 1: out this this act. We were all acting this scenario 641 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: where there was just no trauma and everything was all 642 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: good and sunshine, and I was like, I need to 643 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 1: I need to get some of these thoughts down. So 644 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: instead of this card, I actually wrote her like an 645 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: eight page letter, you know, talking about my feelings as 646 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 1: a child, talking about how I always felt inadequate, and 647 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: how I was constantly chasing their expectations of me and 648 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: feeling like I was coming up short, and how ultimately 649 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: through it all, you know now I understood, you know 650 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: that that where they where they came from, wasn't wasn't 651 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: this place of malice or evil or anything like that, 652 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 1: but just of of intense anxiety and wanting the very 653 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: best for their next generation and having sacrificed so much 654 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 1: to be able to provide that opportunity. Right. So I've 655 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: ended the letter with you know, I'm so extremely grateful 656 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 1: for everything that you've done. I love you. We don't 657 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: say that to each other enough. I hope, you know, 658 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: this will change the course of our relationship. But even 659 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 1: if it doesn't, I feel like these are the words 660 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: that I need to say to you right now. And 661 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 1: you know, it's very, very nervous, but I put it 662 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 1: in the envelope by you know, I handed it to 663 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 1: her and she read it later that night, and you know, 664 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: I knew that one of two things could have happened. Right. 665 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 1: Everything could have stayed the same. It could have been 666 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: the status quo my mother could not have you know, 667 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: reacted to, you know, positively, or she could really take 668 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 1: the letter, really understand and absorb its intention and then 669 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: you know, join me in charting out a new path. 670 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 1: Because one of the other things that I said was, 671 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: it may seem like we've spent so many years at 672 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:04,320 Speaker 1: each other's throats, but we still have so much time. 673 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:06,919 Speaker 1: You know, if we if we started today, we still 674 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: have so much time. And and my mother wrote me 675 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,239 Speaker 1: back and she said, I've been I've been crying. I've 676 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 1: been you know, sitting with this letter, and I'm ready 677 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 1: to join you. And that really was the moment that 678 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: our relationship stopped being you know, surface level and started 679 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 1: to get so much deeper. And the more that we 680 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: you know, the more time we spent together, the more 681 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,840 Speaker 1: we realized just how much we've enjoyed each other's company. 682 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,439 Speaker 1: I took my mother out on a Mother's Day date 683 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 1: for the very first time that year, and it was 684 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: like the two of us just sitting across from each other. 685 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: It's just the most beautiful momentum that, you know. I 686 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 1: just I'm so incredibly grateful for yeah, and everything that's 687 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: happened since the success, the fame and the accoho. I mean, 688 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: that's allowed me to really fully bring them along for 689 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 1: the ride and to let them in, you know, Whereas 690 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: I feel like if we didn't have those conversations, there 691 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 1: would always be a part of me that suspected that, 692 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: you know, hey, what what would our relationship be like 693 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: if that success didn't come, if I didn't book this role. 694 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 1: But I feel like, you know, because we did the 695 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 1: work before, um, you know, I that there's not even 696 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 1: a single part of me that feels that feels that way, 697 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,360 Speaker 1: you know, And instead I'm just focused on being able 698 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: to give my parents the best possible life in their 699 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: third act, you know, in being able to for for 700 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,360 Speaker 1: immigrant parents who were so who literally like when we 701 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 1: went to McDonald's, would would would try to convince their 702 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: son that they weren't hungry, you know, but but would 703 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: get their son the happy meal, you know, and would 704 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 1: watch him eat. Like my parents never wanted anything, you know, 705 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: like for themselves. And it's just an incredible feeling to 706 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: be able to give back to them, you know, and 707 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: to and to show them the things that they deserve 708 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: to have. It's it's really wonderful, see me. That's I'm 709 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 1: so you went into that with us, man. That is 710 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: just so wonderful. They hear about the real work. And 711 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 1: I love that you drew that important connection that you 712 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: didn't assume that the external success was solving the internal 713 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 1: problem and that the internal needed its own work. And 714 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: I think that that requires so much maturity because for 715 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: most people they go, well, once I get this, that 716 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: solves everything, because now everyone's going to be happy. And 717 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 1: I think that that's a very undeveloped viewpoint because they're 718 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,839 Speaker 1: completely they're two completely different things. And actually I want 719 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 1: to point out a few other things to people who 720 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: are listening the connection you made with your parents around 721 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 1: learning Chinese and them seeing how hard you had to work. 722 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: I think that that's genius as a lesson for all 723 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,319 Speaker 1: of us, that if your parents or your friends or 724 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: your family members don't believe in you, they're not coming 725 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 1: on the journey with you. Let them come on the 726 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: journey that they can understand. Right. If your parents are accountants, 727 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: bring them in and have them be involved in seeing 728 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: how you're managing your finances. If you're someone who's trying 729 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,319 Speaker 1: to do something artistic, your parents may not understand the art, 730 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: but they may understand the engineering aspect. Like I think 731 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: that is such a refreshing way to think about it, 732 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 1: because we want to be recognized by our parents for 733 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,319 Speaker 1: the art, but that's not what they understand and appreciate. 734 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,239 Speaker 1: And so there's such a brilliant lesson there for all 735 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,839 Speaker 1: of us and how we connect. And then another oh sorry, 736 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: go and see sorry go ahead, Oh no, no, no, 737 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 1: I was just gonna I was just gonna echo echo 738 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 1: the importance of that and to say yes, like, you know, 739 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 1: you know, parents are like we are all capable of evolving, 740 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 1: but only at a certain speed. Yeah, and so for 741 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: you know, for many parents, I would say, not just mine. 742 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,279 Speaker 1: If you're just to show up one day and say 743 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,479 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be an actor, I'm gonna be a provisional beast, 744 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,359 Speaker 1: you know, basketball, Like that's a bit of a mental leap, 745 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 1: and so you do, like, you know, maybe start to 746 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: take them on that journey or and maybe understand that 747 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,879 Speaker 1: it's not going to happen overnight. You know, Yes, our 748 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: value systems are just so different anyway, Yeah, please go on, No, No, 749 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,760 Speaker 1: I love hearing this from you. I think the mistake 750 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 1: we make is that when we share our passion with 751 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 1: our parents or our family, we've already been thinking about 752 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,239 Speaker 1: it for three years and we just told them in 753 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,440 Speaker 1: three minutes. So now we're expecting them in three minutes 754 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 1: to catch up with our three years of thinking. And 755 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: that just doesn't correlate. That doesn't correspond. And I love, 756 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 1: I really really appreciate how you've thought about this and 757 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,279 Speaker 1: how you've made those choices. The funny thing is, I 758 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 1: don't know if you know this. I spent three years 759 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: working at Accentia, so before I did. Yeah, So when 760 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,680 Speaker 1: you said Deloitte, I was like, I know exactly what 761 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 1: that looks like. I was a consultant at Accentia. So 762 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: when you said Deloitte, I was like, I know exactly 763 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: what the world looks like when you told your friends 764 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 1: or your colleagues at Deloitte that you were going to 765 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 1: make a career switch. What was their reaction then? And 766 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,840 Speaker 1: are you in touch with any of them now? And 767 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: and tell us about that journey from a friend's point 768 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: of view, you know, you know, it's really funny. I don't. 769 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,800 Speaker 1: I don't keep in touch with like a single person, 770 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,920 Speaker 1: almost a single person from that entire kind of business 771 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,759 Speaker 1: school era of my life right, which was like the 772 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 1: you know, the latter half of college as we were 773 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,560 Speaker 1: kicking off recruiting, and you know, it's like, so, so 774 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 1: you know Jay having worked at Accenture, which by the way, 775 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 1: is a very prestigious consulting firm for anybody who who 776 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,920 Speaker 1: doesn't know, Um, you know, there's a bit of a 777 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 1: hierarchy at business school, and it's like, you know, you 778 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,279 Speaker 1: all get together, you talk, you know, you learn, you 779 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,399 Speaker 1: talk about you do cases. I'm sure you did case 780 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,799 Speaker 1: studies and all that. And then you know, after when 781 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,840 Speaker 1: when it starts getting to time to recruit for summer 782 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:53,440 Speaker 1: internships and full time jobs. It's like investment bankers, management consultants, 783 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,279 Speaker 1: everything else, and then you know, um accountants at the 784 00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 1: at the bottom. So I was already like my Mark, 785 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:01,960 Speaker 1: because we're not good in business class. I was not 786 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 1: the guy that read the Wall Street Journal every day, um, 787 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,720 Speaker 1: you know, just like woke up every day passionate about 788 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:12,200 Speaker 1: capital markets or about you know, a corporate strategy. Um. 789 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: I was the guy that went home and played video 790 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,920 Speaker 1: games with his roommate because I just like wasn't engaged. 791 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,680 Speaker 1: And so yeah, I just felt like I was constantly 792 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,160 Speaker 1: a fish out of water for that entire period of 793 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,239 Speaker 1: my life. And the day I got laid off at Deloitte, 794 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 1: you know, I remember very vividly. Again, Um, we all 795 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 1: remember our traumas. And I remember going into my managing 796 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,480 Speaker 1: partner's office and remember the woman from HR that that 797 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,359 Speaker 1: was like standing next to him, and then the moment 798 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 1: where he was like, we're going to terminate. We're here 799 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,360 Speaker 1: to terminate your employment. And then the HR lady stepping 800 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 1: in and saying you we're going to give you ten 801 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 1: minutes to collect your things and we're going to escort 802 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,440 Speaker 1: you back into the into the you know, the office 803 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: and and of course it's an open concept office, so 804 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,160 Speaker 1: everybody can see. But we're going to scort you there 805 00:41:58,160 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 1: so you can, you know, pack up your final thing. 806 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,000 Speaker 1: And I remember, you know, walking back out onto the floor, 807 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 1: and not a single person made eye contact with me, 808 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,359 Speaker 1: spoke with me, you know, people that I thought were 809 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,839 Speaker 1: my friends. And I don't necessarily put that blame on them. 810 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously there is just a really awkward moment 811 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,640 Speaker 1: and they probably were just like, oh, what's happening? But 812 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,080 Speaker 1: that was it. That was my goodbye to a lot 813 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:27,360 Speaker 1: of those people. Was like I looked around, nobody said anything. 814 00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,680 Speaker 1: Everyone's heads were down. They just like wanted to pretend 815 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 1: like it wasn't happening. And so in complete and utter silence, 816 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 1: I packed up my things and then and then I left, 817 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,440 Speaker 1: and it was almost like that there was such a 818 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,719 Speaker 1: such a clean break. I did run into somebody I 819 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,759 Speaker 1: used to work with a few months later, or I 820 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 1: would say maybe like a year later, when I was 821 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,080 Speaker 1: you know, just starting out as an actor and of 822 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 1: course auditioning more than I was working, getting rejected more 823 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,319 Speaker 1: than I was getting hired, and as one of my 824 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,280 Speaker 1: other jobs to kind of you know, pay the bills. 825 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,880 Speaker 1: I was handing out dog food as samples on the 826 00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 1: on the on this side of the street. And that 827 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,560 Speaker 1: job took me into the financial district near where I 828 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,239 Speaker 1: used to work. And this fellow was on his lunch 829 00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,279 Speaker 1: break and ran into and kind of tapped me on 830 00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,080 Speaker 1: the shoulder and was like SIMU, and you know, he 831 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,239 Speaker 1: had been like promoted. I could tell by his suit 832 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,200 Speaker 1: that he was like, you know, he's at least a manager, 833 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,439 Speaker 1: and I was. I was handing out dog food and 834 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,440 Speaker 1: that was there's a really hard moment for me. I 835 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:31,120 Speaker 1: had to come home and like you know, it was 836 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:35,040 Speaker 1: like a re reevaluate all your life choices moment. But thankfully, 837 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,839 Speaker 1: you know, I think I had become so happy with 838 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,799 Speaker 1: the person that even if I wasn't getting the work necessarily, 839 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 1: I was so happy with the person that I became 840 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,160 Speaker 1: right out of the shell of somebody who just didn't 841 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,880 Speaker 1: care about anything, couldn't seem to find any sort of 842 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,120 Speaker 1: motivation in life. Came this person who was just like 843 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,040 Speaker 1: hungry every single day, ready to attack the day, and 844 00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:01,359 Speaker 1: was even willing to, uh, you know, hand food examples. Yeah, 845 00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,400 Speaker 1: to be able to support that dream. That's what I'm 846 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,239 Speaker 1: hearing when I'm speaking to you about this today, and 847 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:07,920 Speaker 1: of course when I was reading the book and when 848 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,440 Speaker 1: we've had interactions before. What's really clear for me today 849 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 1: is even though in the book you will talk about 850 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:18,399 Speaker 1: how you wanted to always find approval and validation from 851 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,680 Speaker 1: your parents and other people, what I'm actually feeling when 852 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,480 Speaker 1: I'm hearing you today is that you've kind of had 853 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:28,319 Speaker 1: to do that for yourself the whole time because there 854 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,879 Speaker 1: hasn't always been that external validation. So at least from 855 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,920 Speaker 1: our conversation today, what I'm garnering is that at every 856 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,840 Speaker 1: step you've validated yourself because no one was there to 857 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,160 Speaker 1: validate you. Would you say that's true? Would you say 858 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,080 Speaker 1: that that was part of building that confidence in who 859 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 1: you were, no matter the external position of your journey. 860 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:53,120 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, absolutely, you know I wasn't you know. 861 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,799 Speaker 1: And I don't necessarily think I'm the most confident person 862 00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,440 Speaker 1: in the world. I think I struggle, especially like you 863 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,040 Speaker 1: want to know what impostors, since it feels like trying 864 00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:02,719 Speaker 1: me me at the oscars for the first time. That 865 00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,560 Speaker 1: is a crazy environment to be in, and all of 866 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:07,480 Speaker 1: a sudden you're looking at everyone around and you're like, 867 00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:11,920 Speaker 1: oh my god, what am I doing here? But you know, 868 00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,719 Speaker 1: I would say this, I spent so much of my 869 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:21,400 Speaker 1: life trying to live up to somebody else's definition of success, what, 870 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,319 Speaker 1: you know, trying to be somebody else's definition of successful, 871 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,120 Speaker 1: whether it was my parents, whether you know, in some cases, 872 00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:30,440 Speaker 1: even my friends. You know, I have a lot of 873 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,200 Speaker 1: friends who went into law and medicine and management consulting, 874 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:39,879 Speaker 1: and and you know, I really it wasn't until I 875 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,680 Speaker 1: had that rock bottom moment that I said, you know 876 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,279 Speaker 1: that none of that is working. I can't live for 877 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,759 Speaker 1: someone else. As much as I can be grateful for 878 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,239 Speaker 1: what my parents have done for me, I cannot surrender 879 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:55,399 Speaker 1: then surrender my own life in service of what they did. 880 00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:59,399 Speaker 1: You know, I have to live for myself. And once 881 00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:02,600 Speaker 1: I made that decision and I focus, and I became 882 00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:07,719 Speaker 1: more I mean honestly became more self centered, became more selfish. 883 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:12,400 Speaker 1: You know, I felt like a new life started to 884 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,680 Speaker 1: kind of come out of me. And it is to 885 00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,279 Speaker 1: this day the best thing that's that's ever happened. What 886 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:22,680 Speaker 1: are some of your daily, weekly, monthly, yearly habits or 887 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,920 Speaker 1: practices that you've done to kind of build that resilience 888 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,799 Speaker 1: and mindset, because I feel like, you know, it's you've 889 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:31,960 Speaker 1: you've made that decision, and then, like you said, you 890 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,160 Speaker 1: have to build around that decision. It's not just oh yeah, 891 00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:36,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna become a movie start, you know, it's it's 892 00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,279 Speaker 1: not as basic as that, and it isn't how you 893 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,719 Speaker 1: talk about it either. Talk to us about some of 894 00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:45,600 Speaker 1: those habits practices you spoke about manifestation earlier, Like, tell 895 00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,000 Speaker 1: us about some of those concrete examples of things that 896 00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:51,600 Speaker 1: you've done that you think have been really integral to 897 00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:53,800 Speaker 1: getting to where you are today, which I believe is 898 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,480 Speaker 1: truly just the beginning of a whole other journey. But 899 00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:58,719 Speaker 1: you know, you've you've been on this massive journey to 900 00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,239 Speaker 1: get here, and I still feel like, you know, there's 901 00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,239 Speaker 1: just so much more for you to uncover. I'm sure 902 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:04,839 Speaker 1: you feel that way, and that's what I fell from 903 00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:07,040 Speaker 1: the book too, Like, but tell us about some of 904 00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,600 Speaker 1: the ones that have worked so far. It is so 905 00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,879 Speaker 1: important in my line of work specifically, but in all 906 00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:17,200 Speaker 1: lines of work really to identify what is in your 907 00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 1: control and what is not, and if you're going to 908 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,960 Speaker 1: base your success on factors that are outside of your control. 909 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,280 Speaker 1: Then I believe that you are setting yourself up for failure, 910 00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:31,359 Speaker 1: and not the good kind of failure, not the kind 911 00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:33,480 Speaker 1: of failure that you learn from and you evolve from 912 00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,400 Speaker 1: and you think critically about, but failure like you know, 913 00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:38,920 Speaker 1: you're gonna just wonder where the time went, and you're 914 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,960 Speaker 1: gonna wonder why you never got your opportunity right. And 915 00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:45,480 Speaker 1: so I know, having an internal locus of control and 916 00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,719 Speaker 1: being hyper focused on the things that are within your 917 00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:53,560 Speaker 1: grasp it has been the critical, critical factor of success 918 00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,000 Speaker 1: over when I look at the last ten years of 919 00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,160 Speaker 1: my life and as an actor, this is so hard 920 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,960 Speaker 1: because so much of you know, career progression for a 921 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,600 Speaker 1: lot of us, on the surface looks like, Okay, we 922 00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:07,360 Speaker 1: go in an acting class, we you know, work on 923 00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,359 Speaker 1: our craft, and then we get an agent. And if 924 00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:13,240 Speaker 1: you get an agent, there's this expectation that an agent 925 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:15,520 Speaker 1: is going to do a lot of the legwork for you, 926 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:17,160 Speaker 1: is going to set up an audition, it's going to 927 00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,480 Speaker 1: help you book a job. And so I feel like 928 00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,480 Speaker 1: it's a very dangerous place to be in when you 929 00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:25,160 Speaker 1: start to place when you start to offload that responsibility 930 00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,040 Speaker 1: to an agent, to a third party who maybe doesn't 931 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,400 Speaker 1: have your best interest in mind. I mean, that's the 932 00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,560 Speaker 1: way it's supposed to work. But an agent is worried 933 00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,879 Speaker 1: about so many other things. They might be focused on 934 00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:37,879 Speaker 1: a client that is earning more than you. They might 935 00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,160 Speaker 1: just be focused on protecting their own relationships because you 936 00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,200 Speaker 1: know what, Actors come and go in the industry. But 937 00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,759 Speaker 1: an agent, you know, has relationships with casting directors and 938 00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,799 Speaker 1: with studios, and that becomes the more important thing. Those 939 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:51,360 Speaker 1: are the people that you know, at the end of 940 00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,880 Speaker 1: the day, pay them, in my opinion at least, And 941 00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,719 Speaker 1: so the idea of for me, of waiting for the 942 00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:02,319 Speaker 1: phone to ring, um for my agent to give me 943 00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,600 Speaker 1: my next opportunity, felt like death. And so for me, 944 00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,960 Speaker 1: you know, from day one, I had it in my 945 00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,640 Speaker 1: mind that I was going to create. I was going 946 00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:12,759 Speaker 1: to be a creator, you know, I was going to 947 00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,359 Speaker 1: be m somebody who wasn't just like acting in front 948 00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:20,200 Speaker 1: of a screen. So screenwriting was something that I tried 949 00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,239 Speaker 1: to develop in myself very early on. You know, I 950 00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,680 Speaker 1: couldn't take a lot of you know, usable skills, I 951 00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:29,600 Speaker 1: couldn't salvage a lot of usable skills from business school. 952 00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,399 Speaker 1: But I feel like my writing was maybe one of them, 953 00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,600 Speaker 1: and so M you know, I just I just wrote. 954 00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:37,560 Speaker 1: I wrote and wrote and wrote, and I wrote some 955 00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:41,240 Speaker 1: of the worst scripts you'll ever read. But I constantly 956 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:46,719 Speaker 1: put myself in situations where I could be a more 957 00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:50,520 Speaker 1: self sufficient artist rather than somebody who is dependent. And 958 00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:55,000 Speaker 1: that led me to apply for production you know, conservatories 959 00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,879 Speaker 1: and intensives. You know, one of my one of my 960 00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:03,200 Speaker 1: most fulfilling experiences was um with this company called the 961 00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:07,680 Speaker 1: Real Asian International Film Festival in Toronto. And what the 962 00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:11,880 Speaker 1: film festival did every year was they had a filmmaking collective. 963 00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,960 Speaker 1: So they accepted, you know, people under twenty five years 964 00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,520 Speaker 1: of age, and they basically ran them through um. You 965 00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:20,840 Speaker 1: know what it what it meant to write a script, 966 00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,760 Speaker 1: what it meant to crew, you know, to crew a production, 967 00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:28,880 Speaker 1: to find a DP, to you know, take a film 968 00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,080 Speaker 1: project from pre production through to principal photography, through a 969 00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,920 Speaker 1: post production, how to do basic editing and mix sound 970 00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,799 Speaker 1: and from there, I, you know, I really came out 971 00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,719 Speaker 1: of it feeling like, Okay, I hold the keys to 972 00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,960 Speaker 1: my destiny. Of course, the way that things played out, 973 00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:46,920 Speaker 1: I had a few lucky breaks along the way. There 974 00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:51,719 Speaker 1: is no getting to this level without you know, a 975 00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,200 Speaker 1: pretty significant amount of luck. But that being said, you know, 976 00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,040 Speaker 1: I have always believed that luck is, you know, where 977 00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,000 Speaker 1: where a preparation meets opportunity. I wanted to be as 978 00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,719 Speaker 1: prepared as I possibly could be, and so for me, 979 00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:07,480 Speaker 1: that meant, Yeah, that meant doing the things around being 980 00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,560 Speaker 1: an actor, you know, whether that was production, whether that 981 00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:15,480 Speaker 1: was screenwriting, or you know, even honestly even doing stunts. 982 00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,120 Speaker 1: At one point, I was like a substitute stuntman. I 983 00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,040 Speaker 1: wasn't incredible at it, but you know, I was just 984 00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,480 Speaker 1: trying to find different ways to diversify my revenue stream 985 00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,000 Speaker 1: and to find just paying me to do something in 986 00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,840 Speaker 1: the industry, I'll do it. And I feel like, you know, 987 00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:32,400 Speaker 1: people would ask me all the time, but what if 988 00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,200 Speaker 1: you don't make it? And my answer I was always like, 989 00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:37,839 Speaker 1: don't you see, I'm making it. I'm making it right now. 990 00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:40,239 Speaker 1: Look at all the stuff that I'm doing. There's you know, 991 00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:42,920 Speaker 1: I don't know whether I'm going to make it as 992 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,879 Speaker 1: an actor or as a as a shooter, or as 993 00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:48,239 Speaker 1: a you know, as a production guy, or even as 994 00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:52,000 Speaker 1: a stuntman. But I've got all these things going for me. 995 00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:55,160 Speaker 1: You know, I'm and I feel like I'm filling up 996 00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,759 Speaker 1: my days with meaningful work rather than just waiting and 997 00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:02,640 Speaker 1: waiting for something that I have no control. I love 998 00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:06,000 Speaker 1: hearing that. I'm so glad that you you brought that up, 999 00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:09,200 Speaker 1: because I think so often we get so fixated on 1000 00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,799 Speaker 1: we get so fixated on I want to do this 1001 00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:16,520 Speaker 1: or I want to be this, and if it's not that, 1002 00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:21,080 Speaker 1: I don't want to do anything, and that mindset pushes 1003 00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:24,480 Speaker 1: that dream away, like you get further and further and 1004 00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,759 Speaker 1: further away. Because actually, if you're in and around the 1005 00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:30,520 Speaker 1: circles of that journey, you get closer and closer and 1006 00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,520 Speaker 1: closer and closer. And I think that that that switch 1007 00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:35,879 Speaker 1: you just made and you've talked about, and to hear 1008 00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:39,040 Speaker 1: that you had to do that, I genuinely love hearing that, 1009 00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:41,600 Speaker 1: because whenever I'm speaking to someone too, I'll say the 1010 00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:43,760 Speaker 1: same thing to them, is like, be around the industry. 1011 00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:47,319 Speaker 1: Be in the industry somehow, be in those spaces and 1012 00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,080 Speaker 1: those rooms, because then it's more then you're closer to 1013 00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:52,120 Speaker 1: where you want to be, rather than you're saying, well, 1014 00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:54,839 Speaker 1: I only want to be a movie director, but I'm 1015 00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:58,399 Speaker 1: not ready to direct an ad or a commercial and 1016 00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,719 Speaker 1: it's like that doesn't that doesn't work like that, So 1017 00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:05,080 Speaker 1: you know, I think that's a huge, huge lesson, amazing advice. 1018 00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,479 Speaker 1: U Sema, you've been so generous with your time. You've 1019 00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,120 Speaker 1: been h you've been so kind. I know it's late 1020 00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:12,879 Speaker 1: in London. I want everyone to know. Right now, it's 1021 00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:17,000 Speaker 1: like seven pm in London, eight hours ahead where Simo 1022 00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:18,680 Speaker 1: is right now. So he's been doing this at the 1023 00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,600 Speaker 1: end of his day, after a busy day, so that 1024 00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:25,000 Speaker 1: we can make this happen. I'm in La so our 1025 00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:28,600 Speaker 1: gap pleasure even no, no, I want to I just 1026 00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:30,640 Speaker 1: want to acknowledge and recognize you man, like I I 1027 00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:33,640 Speaker 1: understand how how busy you're working out there. You're not 1028 00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:37,640 Speaker 1: you're not there on vacation. And so we end every 1029 00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:41,239 Speaker 1: on purpose interview with the final five. And these have 1030 00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:45,400 Speaker 1: to be answered in one word or one sentence maximum, 1031 00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:48,200 Speaker 1: so you can do one word to one sentence, so 1032 00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:53,160 Speaker 1: seem these are your final five. The first question is 1033 00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,240 Speaker 1: what is the best advice you've ever received or heard? 1034 00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:00,960 Speaker 1: Good things come to those who do. Ah, I like 1035 00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,560 Speaker 1: that nice, We've never had that. It's a great one. Okay. 1036 00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:08,040 Speaker 1: Second questions, what is the worst advice you've ever received 1037 00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:12,560 Speaker 1: or heard good things come to those who wait. Nice answer, 1038 00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,200 Speaker 1: all right. Question number three, what's the how would you 1039 00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:19,240 Speaker 1: define your current purpose in life? You want to answer 1040 00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:21,759 Speaker 1: that a one word or one sentence. Um, yeah, yeah, 1041 00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,160 Speaker 1: you get you can play with it, you can be yeah, 1042 00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:26,279 Speaker 1: you can be vigo data. You've been good so far, 1043 00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:28,840 Speaker 1: You've been like you've been killing these two questions already 1044 00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:36,239 Speaker 1: got harder. Um yeah. My current purpose, UM, it's too. 1045 00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:47,000 Speaker 1: It's to amplify uh voices of color. It's to champion projects. Um, 1046 00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:51,080 Speaker 1: you know, featuring myself or otherwise that I believe, UM 1047 00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:54,920 Speaker 1: speak too similar to my book, Um, you know, the 1048 00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,040 Speaker 1: stories of immigrants, the stories of people who have been 1049 00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:01,840 Speaker 1: traditionally underrepresented, who have traditionally not being given a voice, 1050 00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:07,160 Speaker 1: and to and to be a living example of you know, 1051 00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:14,400 Speaker 1: of of the importance of diversity and the importance of inclusion, 1052 00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:17,960 Speaker 1: and not just as an actor, but you know, as 1053 00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:21,880 Speaker 1: we've talked about being a multi disciplinary and being a producer, 1054 00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,880 Speaker 1: you know, and being being somebody who who can really 1055 00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:29,520 Speaker 1: affect the way the decisions are made in Hollywood. I 1056 00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:32,239 Speaker 1: love that man. All right. Question number four, what's the 1057 00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,000 Speaker 1: first thing you do in the morning and the last 1058 00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:39,280 Speaker 1: thing you do every night. I am so bad with mornings. 1059 00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:42,200 Speaker 1: I don't the good morning person. So probably the first 1060 00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,080 Speaker 1: thing I do in the morning is wish I could 1061 00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:48,600 Speaker 1: go back to sleep. Yeah, yeah, that's bad. Um um. 1062 00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:53,560 Speaker 1: The last thing I do every night what I I brush? 1063 00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,439 Speaker 1: I brush my teeth. That's late. Yeah, that's cool. That's 1064 00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:59,920 Speaker 1: that's good. Brush brush my teeth. Good. I think about 1065 00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:03,200 Speaker 1: I think, I think about my lessons of the day. 1066 00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,960 Speaker 1: If I have what what what? What did this day 1067 00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:08,520 Speaker 1: teach me? Yeah, that's a great one. We never had 1068 00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:11,279 Speaker 1: that too. I love that. Uh. Fifth and final question, 1069 00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:14,560 Speaker 1: I'll put you out your misery. Fifth and final question. 1070 00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:18,880 Speaker 1: If you could create one law or one habit that 1071 00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:22,000 Speaker 1: everyone in the world had to follow every day, what 1072 00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:26,839 Speaker 1: would it be? Write down the five people that you 1073 00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,440 Speaker 1: most want to speak to to pick their brain and 1074 00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:31,960 Speaker 1: message all five of them. I love that. That's a 1075 00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:34,000 Speaker 1: that's a great tip. I never had that before. I 1076 00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:37,560 Speaker 1: love that. There there is you know, the one. You know, 1077 00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:39,520 Speaker 1: it's like the other part of like the b self, 1078 00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:42,000 Speaker 1: you know, be self sufficient, be a creator. Is also 1079 00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:45,600 Speaker 1: this recognition that you actually can't do it yourself. Yes, 1080 00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:49,080 Speaker 1: and in order for you to be, you know, a 1081 00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:51,880 Speaker 1: creative and you have to find the people around you, 1082 00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:55,080 Speaker 1: and you have to steal ideas from people that you admire, 1083 00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:57,560 Speaker 1: and you have to look at other, you know, ways 1084 00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:59,880 Speaker 1: in which people have found success and cross reference against 1085 00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:02,920 Speaker 1: at that is so critically important. I feel like for 1086 00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:07,120 Speaker 1: sometimes there's a sense, you know, to put for us. 1087 00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:10,520 Speaker 1: We maybe romanticize putting blinders on and just saying I'm 1088 00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:13,120 Speaker 1: working on mic grind. I don't need anybody else. It's 1089 00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:16,439 Speaker 1: just gonna be me. That's never gonna happen. Especially the arts, 1090 00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,800 Speaker 1: you need to constantly be talking to people that you admire, 1091 00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:23,840 Speaker 1: perspectives that you want to hear. You know, that's the 1092 00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,320 Speaker 1: only way that you learn and that you evolve. This 1093 00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,240 Speaker 1: has been way longer than one sense. It's a good answer, though, 1094 00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:32,640 Speaker 1: it's a good answer. No, it's a good answer, seem 1095 00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:36,120 Speaker 1: The book is out. It's called We Were Dreamers, We 1096 00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:38,960 Speaker 1: Would Dreamers is the name of the book. Highly recommend 1097 00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:40,960 Speaker 1: you go and grab a copy. We will put the 1098 00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:44,919 Speaker 1: link in the caption the bio everywhere an immigrant superhero 1099 00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:49,600 Speaker 1: origin story. Simulio, it's been so fun talking to you, man. 1100 00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,120 Speaker 1: I am so grateful that I actually got to do 1101 00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:55,920 Speaker 1: this with you because the opportunity to sit down and 1102 00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,280 Speaker 1: and peruce through your book, the opportunity to sit down 1103 00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:02,640 Speaker 1: have this conversation with you. I already respected you so 1104 00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,240 Speaker 1: much from our meetings and conversations and when we bump 1105 00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,560 Speaker 1: into each other things. But I genuinely am so happy 1106 00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:10,360 Speaker 1: that I've got to learn about your story. I can't 1107 00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:12,680 Speaker 1: wait for everyone we just shared, like the tip of 1108 00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:14,880 Speaker 1: the iceberg of the stories. Please go grab the book. 1109 00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,520 Speaker 1: Any final words, any lost messages, anything that's on your 1110 00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:22,280 Speaker 1: mind or heart. I'll say this. I'll say this, Um, 1111 00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:26,720 Speaker 1: regardless of where your parents came from, what their story is, UM, 1112 00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:31,280 Speaker 1: you know you belong, You belong, you belong, and you 1113 00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:33,680 Speaker 1: deserve to be to feel proud of where you came from, 1114 00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:35,920 Speaker 1: and you deserve to take up space and to be 1115 00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:39,440 Speaker 1: unapologetic about it. And you know, for for me, that 1116 00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:41,720 Speaker 1: was along. It took a long way for me to 1117 00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:44,320 Speaker 1: get there. But UM, you know, if I could, if 1118 00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:46,760 Speaker 1: I could leave you with one parting thought, it's it's 1119 00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:50,280 Speaker 1: just just feel feel proud, feel proud, and feel like 1120 00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:52,400 Speaker 1: you don't don't feel like you have to apologize for 1121 00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:56,200 Speaker 1: the color of your skin, language to speak anything. I 1122 00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:58,720 Speaker 1: love that. That is a great message to end on. Seema, 1123 00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:01,120 Speaker 1: thank you so much. Make sure when you're listening and 1124 00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:03,680 Speaker 1: watching everyone make sure you tag us both on Instagram, 1125 00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:06,520 Speaker 1: on Twitter, on any social media platform you're using, because 1126 00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:08,840 Speaker 1: I love to see what resonates with you, what connects 1127 00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:11,520 Speaker 1: with you, and please go show that on purpose love 1128 00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:14,640 Speaker 1: to see Moon. Make sure he feels the positive energy 1129 00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:17,960 Speaker 1: from all of our listeners. Seema, you've been incredible. I 1130 00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:20,880 Speaker 1: hope you have an amazing rest of your visit to London, 1131 00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,640 Speaker 1: my hometown, and I can't wait to hang out with 1132 00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:25,440 Speaker 1: you when you're back in La Man. But thank you 1133 00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,240 Speaker 1: so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. 1134 00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:30,200 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. I'm still waiting on your list 1135 00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:33,200 Speaker 1: of restaurant recos. Oh yeah, okay, okay, I'll send them 1136 00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:37,320 Speaker 1: over right now, all right, Thank you so much,