1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Just a quick warning, there is some explicit language in 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: this conversation, so be aware. 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 2: So I'm investigating myself, I'm investigating her and I learn 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 2: how to see her as a separate human being, not 5 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 2: as my mother, as a person. Why did she make 6 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 2: these decisions? What kind of world was she growing up in? 7 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 2: What was her home like? You know, all of these 8 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: questions that shape us as people. I wanted to apply 9 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 2: to her. To see her with empathy enabled me to 10 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 2: go to these scenes, to go to these memories, to 11 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 2: feel as if she's there. 12 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: From Futuro Media and PRX, It's Latino Usay, I'm Maria Yojosa. 13 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: Today a conversation with journalist and author Carmen Frita Wan 14 00:00:52,040 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: about her memoir Why Didn't You Tell Me. Over her 15 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: twenty year long career in the media, Carmen Rida Wong 16 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 1: hasn't been afraid to ask the hard questions. Carmen began 17 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: her career specializing in something that often can be difficult 18 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,119 Speaker 1: to talk about. Money. 19 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 2: Money is about not just money, It's also about how 20 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 2: you live your life, how happy you want to be. 21 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 2: So here's the thing. With every decision you make in 22 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 2: your life, there's a personal cost and a financial cost. 23 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: As a personal finance expert, Carmen was named host of 24 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: On the Money on CNBC in two thousand and five, 25 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: making her one of the few Latinas to host a 26 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: show on national television. She's also written two personal finance books, 27 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: and her work has been featured in publications like Essence 28 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: and Glamour magazines. But as a woman of color and 29 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: often the only woman of color in the spaces of 30 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: finance journalism, race, gender and identity were always on Carmen's mind. 31 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: Born in New York City in nineteen seventy one, Carmen 32 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: grew up with an Afro Dominican mother and a Chinese father. 33 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: She recalls early childhood memories drinking gafekr leche on her 34 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: Aboiles couch in Upper Manhattan and then driving down to Chinatown, 35 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: where her father Bapi Wang would take her and her 36 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: brother to restaurants decked in gold and red. 37 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,399 Speaker 2: The restaurant was overwhelming in size, filled with gold chairs 38 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 2: as far as my eyes could see and read so 39 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:45,839 Speaker 2: much red and people and chatter everywhere. Eyes were on us. 40 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 2: When our father, Peter Wong, entered a space, no matter 41 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 2: the expanse he made sure you heard and saw him coming. 42 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: Carmen would later understand that this marriage between her mom 43 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: Lupe and her dad Buppy Wong, was only a strategy 44 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: for her immigrant family to legally remain in the United States, 45 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: and so when Carmen was a little girl, her mom 46 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: Lupe divorced Buppy Wang and she got married again, this 47 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: time to a man Carmen describes as her mom's white 48 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: knight in shining armor. Her stepfather, Marty, was the family's 49 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: ticket now to the white suburban American dream, but it 50 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: wasn't like she'd imagined it. The family moved to New Hampshire, 51 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: to a neighborhood where Carmen didn't see many people who 52 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: looked like her. Soon, her mom stopped cooking Dominican food 53 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: and the family stopped speaking Spanish. It was the price 54 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: they paid to fit in. 55 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 2: Our new house was in the tiny town of amherst Off, 56 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 2: a main road called Route one oh one, which was 57 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 2: two paved lanes that cut through farmland. Only a few 58 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 2: years in New Hampshire, out of the city, and my 59 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 2: visual comprehension was shifting. It was like I had white 60 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 2: lenses over my eyes, the white daze, the gap between 61 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 2: the new US and our own family back in Manhattan 62 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 2: kept getting larger. 63 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: Lube and Marty would go on to have four more 64 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 1: kids in New Hampshire. Carmen remembers growing up feeling like 65 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: an outsider even in her own family, and questions about 66 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: belonging followed her as she came of age. Decades later, 67 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: as Carmen's mother neared the end of her life, the 68 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: secrets began to come to the surface. 69 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 2: My youngest sister only recently gave me a photograph that 70 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 2: she had found in our dad's closet. If I had 71 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 2: seen it at any point in my first three decades 72 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 2: on this earth, it would have burst my life and 73 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 2: our family's lives wide open. 74 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: Carmen, who is now fifty one years old, turned to 75 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: writing in order to make sense of why her mother 76 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: decided to keep these secrets for thirty years. Why Didn't 77 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: You Tell Me follows that journey. In my conversation with 78 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: Carmen Rita Wong, we dive into her family's story, her 79 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: career as a woman of color and journalism, and how 80 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: the art of memoir writing can sometimes feel like a 81 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: radical practice of empathy. Carmin Rita Wang Welcome to Latino, USA. 82 00:05:52,839 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: It's been honestly like forever forever in the making. Welcome, Welcome. 83 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 2: Oh, It's what a pleasure and an honor, Maria. I 84 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 2: just it's like the universe came full circle. 85 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: I'm so happy you know, you and I actually we 86 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,600 Speaker 1: really could talk for hours and we have, yes, we 87 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: have we have in this that you knows and you 88 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 1: know before we became friends, I admired you from Afar 89 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: same because you were a journalist making a space for 90 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: yourself as a woman of color. You've had this incredible 91 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: two decade career span in the media, and then you 92 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: dove into writing a memoir. And when I mean dive in, 93 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: you dove in deep. Because your memoir really is all 94 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 1: about family secrets, it's about race, it's about colorism, it's 95 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 1: about gender, it's about fitting in and exactly what that 96 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: means and how all of this has shaped you. And 97 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: I've always wanted to ask you this question. You know, 98 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: there was a moment when you decide, Okay, I want 99 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: to write a memoir as opposed to I want to 100 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: write another novel. So where were you in your life 101 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: when you were like, Okay, it's a memoir. I have 102 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: to do this. 103 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 2: You know, I have actually always wanted to write, not 104 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 2: from any feeling of self importance, but from a feeling 105 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 2: of being that kid in middle school among the library 106 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 2: stacks and looking up for my next book to read 107 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 2: and not seeing us, not just me, not seeing us 108 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 2: at all, And I always wanted to fix that. 109 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: You know, I'm like, well, one of the things that 110 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: Kad Mandrittin I actually never talked about is investigative journalism. 111 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: And for you, this notion of investigative journalism has really 112 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: been understanding your family's history, your mom, the decisions that 113 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: she made, and how this all shaped you. And so 114 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: can you paint us a picture of who young Lupel 115 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: Tagaracia was back in the days when she was raising 116 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: you and your brother Alex as a single mom in 117 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: New York City. Take us to that time. 118 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 2: She was a very stylish woman that kind of ran 119 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 2: of the family. You know. Her and Maya Boela were 120 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 2: seamstresses for Oscar de la re Enta, and I would 121 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 2: try on her high heels and lipstick and all of that. 122 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 2: She wasn't around as much during that time. What I 123 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 2: remember the most are all the other family around me. 124 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 2: She was there but you know, she was working, and 125 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 2: my mother was, you know, not the warmest person. So 126 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 2: it really was my Abuela who was a big force 127 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 2: in my life in the start of my life. And 128 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 2: I can smell her kitchen and her little plastic fruits 129 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 2: on the table, and all of these things were just 130 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 2: so much, you know, the vinyl on the furniture in 131 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,040 Speaker 2: the summer, I would just sweat and just stick and 132 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 2: these things are so bright in my mind. And then 133 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 2: it was Chinatown. 134 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: So can you tell me a little bit more about 135 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: the marriage between your mom and Peter, who you call 136 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: Bapi Wang. So this is your mom's first husband, and 137 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: she married him when she arrived from the Dominican Republic 138 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: as an immigrant here in New York City. 139 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. So Abuelon Ohinion, who brought my mother, brother, sister, 140 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 2: and Aboila to the city, was married and had another family, 141 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 2: you know, typical, and brought both families. But the trouble was, 142 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 2: of course, because they weren't legally married. The family couldn't 143 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 2: you know, get their documentation. And what he did entrepreneur 144 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 2: that he was somehow found these two Chinese gangsters, like 145 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 2: literal gangs, which is you know, wild when I think about, 146 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 2: you know what I've come from, but to marry for 147 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 2: money his two daughters, my mother and my tea whoa. 148 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: So it was straight So it was straight up, like 149 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: this is a transactional thing. You know. 150 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 2: They needed their documentation. These Chinese gentlemen had Theirs and 151 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 2: my cousins are the Lees, and I'm we're the Wongs 152 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 2: and they're the Lees. It was not the most auspicious beginning. 153 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 2: Oh my god, to have an arranged marriage to someone 154 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 2: who you know doesn't exactly operate on the right side 155 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 2: of the law. But Poppy was my father for the 156 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 2: first thirty one years of my life. And my brother 157 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 2: is my heart, or was my heart, and he was 158 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 2: a Wong. So yes, it was a very interesting time. 159 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 2: Poppy would come and pick my older brother and I up, 160 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 2: the two Wongs, his two wongs. Abuela would doll us 161 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 2: up and my mother and we'd go down to Chinatown 162 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 2: and he'd show us off and their relationship. You know, 163 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 2: look at the pictures. My favorite picture, which is one 164 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 2: of the ones on the front of the book, that's 165 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 2: their engagement party, and my mother's wearing you know, a 166 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 2: Chinese Chong Sam dress and has her beehive and Poppy 167 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 2: has his hair, you know, slicked back, and they're in 168 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 2: Chinatown with my Dominican family. 169 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: When you're a young girl, your mom leaves Bapi Wang, 170 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: she remarries, and she kind of takes you as far 171 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: away from Upper West Side, Harlem, Chinatown, New York. She 172 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: takes you to New Hampshire, and you know, you talk 173 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: about how, yeah, it might have been just a drive away, 174 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: but really the culture of these places is so different. Yeah, 175 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: and so you're kind of this New York kid, New 176 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: York Latino Dominican family, your mom. You have this scene 177 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: in the book where your mom goes to the supermarket 178 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: with you know, dipico rolos in her hair. Yeah, And 179 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you could read this passage that takes 180 00:11:58,400 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: us back to that moment. 181 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 2: As we claimed a shopping cart and walked into the 182 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 2: local grocery store, my mother, who I thought was beautiful 183 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 2: and arguably striking, wore in her hair large rollers as 184 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 2: fat and round as coat cans covered by a beautiful 185 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 2: silk scarf tied at the back of her neck. And 186 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 2: the scarves. Ugh, I loved the scarves. My mother had 187 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 2: a drawer of them that I would sneak into and 188 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,599 Speaker 2: drape around myself to pretend I was just as glamorous 189 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 2: as her and all her friends. The grocery aisles in 190 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 2: our new town were enormous compared with what we were 191 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 2: used to the store itself appeared to be a full 192 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 2: city block of unlimited supplies. We shared a mutual bubbly 193 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 2: excitement my mother, my brother, and I as we first 194 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 2: walked in the doors. Then as we wound through the aisles, 195 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 2: the metallic sounds of our shopping cart sounded louder as 196 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,319 Speaker 2: every person we passed went silent and stared at us, 197 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 2: at my mother in particular. They stared, sneered in stifled laughs. 198 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 2: I saw their ugly faces first before I saw my 199 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 2: mother's stoic but pained expression as she kept shopping for 200 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 2: what our family needed until we reached the last aisle. 201 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 2: My brother and me silently following. Mom then seared us 202 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 2: to the checkout line after ten aisles of stairs and whispers. 203 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 2: Her face was burning with shame and maybe even anger. 204 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 2: Her back was straight, chin up, jaws set as she 205 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 2: unloaded the groceries from our cart, registering this look like 206 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 2: I'd never seen on my proud mother's face. I caught 207 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 2: another woman just over her shoulder, staring at mommy and 208 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 2: whispering to another shopper. The woman looked at me, and 209 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 2: I sent burning daggers their way with my little eyes. 210 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 2: Even though I was so sad and afraid. I never 211 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,599 Speaker 2: saw my mother in Rolla's in public ad Again. 212 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: What do you think were the lessons or the lesson, 213 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: the big lesson that you learned in your life because 214 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:18,439 Speaker 1: of this transition of I'm leaving New York and I'm 215 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: going to New Hampshire. 216 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 2: Well, I might as well have, you know, four hour drive. 217 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 2: I might as well have been on Mars, you know, 218 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 2: or the moon in four hours. Like That's how different 219 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 2: it was. The takeaway from it really is that that 220 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 2: pressure in that culture, not Harlem, not Dominican, not Chinatown, 221 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 2: in the white culture of New Hampshire in their late seventies, 222 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 2: early eighties and maybe even now, of course, is about 223 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 2: erasure and its theft. Assimilation is a theft that is 224 00:14:55,760 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 2: so painful. It breaks families, it breaks traditions, it breaks identity. 225 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 2: But the odd good part of it was I got 226 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 2: insight into how the culture that tends to run things 227 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 2: in this country, how they think, how they act, why 228 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 2: they do, and it demystified all of that for me. 229 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 2: So that was really something I just took with me 230 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 2: my whole life. 231 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: Coming up on that, you know, Usa, I continue my 232 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: conversation with Carmen Rita Wong and how the experience of 233 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: writing a memoir has helped her understand the often difficult 234 00:15:40,000 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: decisions she and her family had to make. Stay with us, Yes, hey, 235 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: we're back. Before the break, we were talking with Carmen 236 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: Rita Wong about her memoir Why Didn't You Tell Me? 237 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: In the book, Carmen grapples with the family secrets her 238 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: mother Loupe kept for thirty years. We're going to dive 239 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: back into my conversation now with Carmen. We're going to 240 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: talk about how growing up in a predominantly white environment 241 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: shaped her career as a journalist, and how her own 242 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: journey as a mom and as a writer brought her 243 00:16:55,880 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: closer to understanding her mother's complicated decisions. So the title 244 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: of your book is why Didn't you Tell Me? And 245 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: You're like, I just wanted answers, and I feel like 246 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 1: you and me as kind of modern Latina moms, we're 247 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: about like we're going to give you the answers, but 248 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: you know, we recognize that it's also challenging in the 249 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 1: book though. What you do is that the title, you 250 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: take this title, why didn't you tell Me? And each 251 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,679 Speaker 1: chapter of the book basically is well, why didn't you 252 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: tell me? Because dot dot dot dot? And I was wondering, 253 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 1: who are you asking this question to. 254 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 2: My mother's ghost? My mother's ghost, Because each is you know, 255 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 2: because the stage was set and it's that's the chapter 256 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 2: about you know, the origin story, right, and the diists 257 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 2: in Chinatown with the bosses on it and the dance 258 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 2: floor that my mother would have on a Friday night 259 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 2: in her apartment, you know. So each chapter title gives 260 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 2: you a hint to you know, what my mother may 261 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 2: have been thinking or saying, is like, well, this is 262 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 2: just this is the way things were. One of them 263 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 2: is we moved to New Hampshire because white is right, 264 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 2: because it's too late, because I didn't think you would 265 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 2: find out, you know, but it really literally was the 266 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 2: way I saw my life unfold and by always keeping 267 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 2: in mind that theme of figuring out why she didn't 268 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 2: tell me because she went to her grave when I 269 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 2: found out at thirty one, years old, I was told 270 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 2: that Pappy Wong was not my biological father, which was devastating. 271 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 2: I confronted her and she was dying of cancer, and 272 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 2: you know, she told me a whole nother story, Maria. 273 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: Not only your mod I mean the lies upon lies 274 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: in my own extended family in Mexico. It's like, you 275 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: want it, you want to hear it. Telenovela. The stories 276 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: that are layered one on top of the other, and 277 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 1: trying to keep them all straight is one thing. And 278 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about your mom, like the fact that there 279 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: she is, you know, with not a lot of time left, 280 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: and she's able to kind of talk about this whole 281 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: other story and make up another story for you her daughter, right, 282 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 1: And so I'm thinking about as you're writing this book. 283 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: This happened a lot for me as I was writing 284 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: my memoir, I ended up having a lot of conversations 285 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: with my dad. There was a lot for me with 286 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: my dad. I was like, I betterdon, puppy, I put 287 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: you through that oof. Betterdon With your mom. I'm wondering 288 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 1: if you can talk a little bit about how you 289 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: worked with writing those particular scenes between you and your mom. 290 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,679 Speaker 1: So talk a little bit about that communication with your 291 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,640 Speaker 1: mom as a writer, Well. 292 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 2: I think it's not her per se. It's not even 293 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 2: necessarily her ghost. It's more like, what would I say 294 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 2: or ask or do if she were here and there 295 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 2: was a big glass wall between us, Because that's the 296 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 2: distance I have to hold her. She could be quite 297 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 2: the damaging person. So what it enabled me to do 298 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 2: all this time that she's been gone she passed eighteen 299 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 2: nineteen years ago. It's enabled me, plus fifteen years of 300 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 2: weekly therapy moher. That is so important. Talk about investigative journalism. 301 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 2: You must investigate yourself, right, So I'm investigating myself. I'm 302 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 2: investigating her and I learn how to see her as 303 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 2: a separate human being, not as my mother as a person. 304 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 2: Why did she make these decisions? What kind of world 305 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,439 Speaker 2: was she growing up in? What was her home like? 306 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 2: You know, all of these questions that shape us as people. 307 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 2: I wanted to apply to her and see her, not 308 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 2: with forgiveness, by the way, because forgiveness requires an apology 309 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 2: and a change in behavior. So but empathy, empathy. To 310 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 2: see her with empathy enabled me to go to these scenes, 311 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 2: to go to these memories, to feel as if she's there. 312 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 1: So growing up in New Hampshire, being one of the 313 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 1: only people of color in your school, in your neighborhood. 314 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: It was you say, often painful, very very isolating, but 315 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: you also say that it demystified the way that white 316 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:47,120 Speaker 1: America operated. Right. The fact that you felt demystified by 317 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: it all led you to then kind of make the 318 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: career choices that you made, which were, you know, frankly 319 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: a pretty badass. 320 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 3: You know. 321 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: You start by working in magazines. You go into personal finance, 322 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 1: where I was like, say what and we've talked about this. 323 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh money, I don't know. Oh, and You're 324 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: like I'm diving in and I'm wondering. We've actually never 325 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: sat down and like commiserated because it's like, yeah, eh, 326 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:13,640 Speaker 1: it's a soul. 327 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 328 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: But I'm sure that when you were writing this you 329 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 1: were like, oh my god, the things that I had 330 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: to put up with, And I'm wondering about those early 331 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: moments of your career. 332 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 4: Woof. 333 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 2: I tell you, Maddy, I look back and I finished 334 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 2: the book and I was like, oh, no, wonder, I'm 335 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 2: so tired. Jeez Jesus. Oh yeah, yeah, it's like a 336 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 2: it's like a tired to the soul, the demonstification. Part 337 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,479 Speaker 2: of it was, you know, Marty, my stepfather was in 338 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 2: graduate school for Economics of Columbia, the complete opposite of 339 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 2: Popy Wong Right. I tried to bond with him because, 340 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 2: you know, here's this new dad. And then I had 341 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 2: four little sisters from their marriage, and I wanted to 342 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 2: be part of something. And you know, it was mostly 343 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 2: the Wall Street Journal and Louis ru Kreiser and PBS, 344 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 2: and it was all about money, money, money, So I 345 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 2: knew all this stuff, but I didn't want to have 346 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 2: anything to do with it. I loved media. I loved magazines. 347 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 2: We were a news family. Loupe Mommy taught me to 348 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 2: speak with this very distinct voice by watching the news. 349 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 2: She didn't want me to have an accent. And my 350 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:22,719 Speaker 2: career was a bit haphazard because frankly, her dreams for 351 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 2: me was what I had to start out with. I'm 352 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:33,120 Speaker 2: a creative. I wanted to create. I loved art. I 353 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 2: loved writing. I wanted to be a writer. I wanted 354 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 2: to be an artist. I wanted to be a psychologist, 355 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 2: which I did get my master's in psychology, but I 356 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 2: really wanted to do those things and I wasn't allowed to, 357 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 2: so pre med graduated with a double in art history 358 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 2: and psychology. Started at Christie's auction House on Park Avenue. 359 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,360 Speaker 2: If you can believe it, changed the dress code there 360 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 2: at the age of twenty three, they didn't let women 361 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 2: wear pants, if you can believe it. In the nineties, 362 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 2: I went from there to like trying to get into 363 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 2: the magazine business. And the only opening at the time, 364 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 2: at time inc was was Money Magazine. I was surrounded 365 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,679 Speaker 2: by Money Magazine and Fortune and Barons and all that 366 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 2: stuff because of Marty. I said, I know this stuff, 367 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 2: but let me tell you, I was definitely one of 368 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 2: the only women of color. So that's how I ended 369 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 2: up in media. That's how I ended up personal finance. 370 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 2: And then what the fire that was lit under me? 371 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 2: Even though I didn't necessarily like the topic of money, 372 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 2: is that at Money Magazine is where I realized, Man, 373 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 2: these people have all this information. Who's telling us, who's 374 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 2: telling our generation, and who's telling us as Latinos, Black Americans, 375 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 2: as Asian, who's talking to us as women? And I 376 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 2: just realized it was a big gap. And that lit 377 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 2: me on fire, and I was like, all right, I'm 378 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:57,640 Speaker 2: gonna take this and run. 379 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: So career wise, things were happening, right, things are like 380 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: taking off, and so you know, if your career is 381 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: taking off and everything is going so well, and you're 382 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 1: like in personal finance, which is incredibly demanding as a 383 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: journalist as well, somewhere along the line, you're like, and 384 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: I also want to be a mom myself, and you 385 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: were determined. You write about how your mom was often 386 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: quite hard on you, and your mom did make you 387 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: essentially be a second mom to your younger siblings, four 388 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: of them. There are a lot of women whould be 389 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: like Siby was gay. I raised my four younger sisters. 390 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 1: I'm done with it. Yeah, there was a desiring you 391 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 1: to have a child, and I want to know where 392 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: that came from after having raised your four younger sisters. 393 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 2: Well, notice I only have one child. I was determined 394 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 2: even at you know, before my second marriage, when I 395 00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,400 Speaker 2: was in my early thirties, I said, oh my god, 396 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 2: if I hit thirty five, I'm building an adoption fund 397 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 2: like a savings account, like that's how much. I was like, 398 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:07,479 Speaker 2: I'm going to do this on my own. I can 399 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 2: do this, blah blah. And my daughter came along at 400 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 2: an incredibly difficult time. The first year and a half 401 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 2: of her life was very difficult for me because I 402 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 2: became the main breadwinner, and as you know, in the 403 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 2: TV world, it takes a lot from you, and it 404 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 2: takes a lot of time from you, a lot, a lot, 405 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 2: a lot. And I guess I should say that I've 406 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 2: pretty much made it my motto after those couple of years, 407 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,919 Speaker 2: and the show ended to make her the focus of 408 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 2: my life and to kind of make up for those 409 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 2: first two years. I didn't want that to happen. 410 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: So another thing that you and I are pretty public 411 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: about is that in this business, you have to believe 412 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: in yourself incredibly. You have to fight through all of 413 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: these battles. You have to have an ego, you have 414 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: to manage the ego. You and I are passionate about 415 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: our families. But this other thing that we share is 416 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: and we're okay to talk about, right which is there's 417 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 1: a lot of sacrificing of our families. And you have 418 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: been in this position. But I want to know a 419 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: little bit more about how you understand how latinas in 420 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: any business, but particularly in our business, what we sacrifice 421 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: and how we manage that because a favorite word among 422 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: Latina's guilt. 423 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 2: Oh guilty must made yea, I have done away with 424 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 2: that G. 425 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 1: Word, done away with But it is it is a cloud. 426 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: It is a cloud that is over for a long time. 427 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 2: Huge, huge, huge, And I think too, you know, because 428 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 2: and I'm going to say this, which you know, this 429 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 2: is probably something we share too, because I'm ambitious and 430 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,439 Speaker 2: I want to succeed. The two things can battle with 431 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,199 Speaker 2: each other. And what I did, though, was is I 432 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 2: made a difficult decision to step away from TV full 433 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 2: time and because I needed to be there, because all 434 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 2: of a sudden I found myself a single parent. 435 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: I think one of the things we understand, Carmen frankly, 436 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: as we get older, right, is that we begin to 437 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: understand our parents, right, and like the really difficult, complex 438 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: decisions that they made, we begin to understand like, okay, 439 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: this is this might help me to understand why they 440 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: made this decision. And honestly, I wasn't expecting to ask 441 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: you this question, but you know, I just feel like 442 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: I have to. And you and I are very open. 443 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: We talk about everything. And one of the things that 444 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: you and I have talked a lot about is sex 445 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: and sexuality, as women, as latinas as women of color. 446 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: A guess where I'm going to is that as I 447 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: read the book, I mean, your mom was an imminently 448 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: sexual bean, and I'm just kind of like, as you 449 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: wrote this, how were you relating to that part of 450 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: your mom? 451 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 2: She understood her power, the power of her body and 452 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 2: attractiveness as a woman. She could be charming, but she 453 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 2: was also cold and a little stand offish, and that 454 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 2: was actually very appealing to a lot of men. She 455 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 2: was kind of a force, but she was also she 456 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 2: was very much kind of a seductress. Right. But when 457 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 2: we moved to New Hampshire is kind of when it 458 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 2: started to be extinguished. Within a you know, i'd say 459 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 2: maybe five years, she went from wearing you know, skimpy 460 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 2: nightgowns at night or I'd be like, Mommy, cover your 461 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 2: booze man, you know, and she'd be like you ache 462 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 2: from them or something, and I'd be like, what, you know, 463 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 2: it's disgusting and inappropriate response, Oh my god, so much? Right, 464 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 2: and I just was repulse But anyway, but it was 465 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 2: also funny. But she went from that to just like 466 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 2: covering herself up and shutting herself down, and you know 467 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 2: that was also hard to see because that was the 468 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 2: pressure of that place. New Hampshire didn't allow her to 469 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 2: be that person. You can, especially, I think, feel it 470 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 2: and hear it initially when I tell the story of 471 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 2: how she came home one day with a new hairstyle. 472 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 2: And notice I have a couple of hair stories in here, 473 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 2: because as woman of color, this stuff is very important. 474 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 2: But you know, in New Hampshire she had to pull 475 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 2: her hair back, not where it does much makeup, you know, 476 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 2: cover herself up. And we kids were watching Sesame Street 477 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 2: and Rita Moreno came on and she had this beautiful 478 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 2: auburn afro. And my mother Lubey was like, oh, I 479 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 2: meet a galena, and she was like fascinated by it. 480 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 2: Next day she comes home, she goes out for a 481 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 2: few hours. She comes home, she has an auburn afro. 482 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 2: I think it's cute. She is happy, the look on 483 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 2: her face of pride and joy. And then Marty comes 484 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 2: home and he calls her upstairs. They disappear and she 485 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 2: comes downstairs with a scarf covering her hair, and her 486 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 2: face is just gray and she I say, mommy, you 487 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 2: know what what happened? And she says he didn't like it, 488 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 2: and she wore that scarf on her head until her 489 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 2: hair grew long enough to again pull it back into 490 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 2: a ponytail. So what that really showed me, Even though 491 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 2: my mother was and I'm going to use this word 492 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 2: madea because it's absolutely true, and I didn't put my 493 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 2: whole life in that book, my mother was a very 494 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 2: abusive person. There was a lot of There was abuse, 495 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 2: there was trauma, There was very difficult house to see 496 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:54,959 Speaker 2: her in that moment, to see the crushingness of identity 497 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 2: and how much how you present yourself, you know as Latina, 498 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 2: you know, Afro Latina, how much we missed right, how 499 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 2: she could be herself in New York, but she couldn't 500 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 2: be herself there. How she was trapped and she felt 501 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 2: trapped with these four new little kids, you know, and 502 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,719 Speaker 2: why I was second mommy, so she couldn't handle it, 503 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 2: and she had no friends, you know. We volunteered at 504 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 2: the church maybe, but she didn't have those Friday night 505 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 2: dance parties anymore. It enabled me to see that the 506 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 2: reason why my mother was so abusive, which, by the way, 507 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 2: it gets handed down, doesn't it, you know, handed down 508 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 2: for generation to generation generation. She had a lot of 509 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 2: reasons to be angry and in pain. So though you know, 510 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 2: I don't necessarily forgive it or look back on it fondly, 511 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 2: I understand where it comes from. 512 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: So I have to tell you, Carmen that when I 513 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: got to the end of the book, I just there 514 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: was like this, ah, you know, I was like, this 515 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: is my friend and she's been through a lot of trauma, 516 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: and you are you know, you're such a survivor. In fact, 517 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: you're one of the people who helped me in very 518 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: very dark times in my life. You really help me 519 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 1: and of course you have this fabulous smile. Of course 520 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: that's why you had a great career on television. So 521 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: I want to know how you're processing the trauma and 522 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 1: how it relates to this central question, which is, you know, 523 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: where do I belong? And that's the question that you're 524 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: asking right like where do I belong? And it's a 525 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: question that in your story you acknowledge it's impacted by colonization, 526 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: by the diaspora. I mean, how do you process the 527 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,239 Speaker 1: trauma that you now see your search for identity and 528 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: frankly living with and being at peace with the truth. 529 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 2: Well, the search for identity. I will say I found 530 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 2: a lot of peace with that because you know, there's 531 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 2: been a lot of clarity in the sense of this. 532 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 2: When I found out, you know, Popu Wang wasn't my 533 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,279 Speaker 2: biological father, a lot of people have you know, made 534 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 2: comments about like, oh, you're not Chinese anymore, and da 535 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 2: da da da. I have really distilled there's a very 536 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:16,959 Speaker 2: big difference, as you know, because we have a Gino 537 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 2: Latino Asian Latino community between race and culture. So am 538 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,800 Speaker 2: I biologically race Chinese? 539 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 4: No? 540 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 2: But I will always be a Wong always. That's not 541 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 2: going to change. It's never changed. And I had to 542 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 2: bury Poppy a few months ago, and that definitely, even 543 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 2: though he was very difficult person, another abusive person, but man, 544 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 2: did that make very clear to me that he was 545 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,280 Speaker 2: my father. Even though he didn't live with us, he didn't, 546 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 2: you know, but he was there. He was that presence. 547 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 2: He called me up all the time. He was a 548 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 2: pain in the ass, but you know what, he was 549 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 2: the only one who called me up all the time. 550 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 2: So there's it's a different way that each of these people, 551 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 2: in each of these men have formed me. And in 552 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 2: terms of my identity, I very much realized that the 553 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 2: outside world can look at me and see my phenotype, 554 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 2: the expression of my genes, which is very much by chance. 555 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 2: Look at my daughter Uno Blanchita right, who came out 556 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 2: blonde with blue eyes. Look at my nieces who are 557 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,800 Speaker 2: black with the name Wong, and look at my family 558 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,760 Speaker 2: and those pictures in the book and be like, what 559 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:31,359 Speaker 2: the hell you know? We know who we are right 560 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 2: and the outside world shouldn't be able to tell you 561 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 2: what I love about this young generation, you know, because 562 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 2: my daughter's fifteen. Man, I love it, Maria, I love it. 563 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,839 Speaker 2: They say, this is who I am, This is how 564 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 2: I want to be addressed, These are my pronoun like, 565 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 2: this is what we need to do because when that 566 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 2: big culture in New Hampshire looked down on me and said, no, 567 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 2: you're not this, You're that. That's painful. It's painful to 568 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 2: not be able to say no, no, no, no, this is who 569 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 2: I am. So doing the book coming to this point, yes, 570 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 2: lots of therapy and really kind of processing everything as 571 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,359 Speaker 2: I go along. It's been kind of amazing to land 572 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 2: at the point where I just realized, now I know 573 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,879 Speaker 2: who I am. 574 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 1: Well, Okada, I am so glad that you said yes 575 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: to write this book, and that you took all of 576 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,720 Speaker 1: us readers on this journey with you, and it's really 577 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: been great talking to you. The book is why didn't 578 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 1: You tell Me? Congratulations again and on everything that comes ahead. 579 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 1: I mean, then, thank you for being such a truth 580 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 1: seeker and. 581 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 4: A truth teller, Same Mama. 582 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Julia Rocha and by Daisy Contreras. 583 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: It was mixed by gabriel A Byez. Thank you to 584 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 1: Random House Audio for the excerpt why Didn't You Tell Me? 585 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,840 Speaker 1: Read by Carmen Brito Wong, the author. The Latino USA 586 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: team includes Andrea Lopez Grusado, Marta Martinez, Mike Sargent, Julia 587 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: Ta Martinelli, Victoria Streda Rinaldo, Leanos Junior, Alejandra Salasad, and 588 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: Patricia Sulbaran, with help from Raoul Perees. Our editorial director 589 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 1: is Fernandes Santos. Our director of Engineering is Stephanie Lebo. 590 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 1: Our senior engineer is Julia Caruso. Our associate engineer is 591 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 1: jj Carubin. Our marketing manager is Luis Lunar. Our New 592 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: York Women's Foundation Fellow is Elizabeth Lowendal Torres. Our theme 593 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: music was composed by Zania Ruinos. I'm Your host and 594 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,280 Speaker 1: executive producer Marianno Posa joined us again on our next episode, 595 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 1: Remember not Tevayas and Astella Proxima. 596 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 3: Ciao Latino USA is made possible in part by New 597 00:37:56,080 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 3: York Women's Foundation. The New York Women's Foundation funding women 598 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 3: leaders that build solutions in their communities and celebrating thirty 599 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 3: years of radical generosity, California Endowment building a strong state 600 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 3: by improving the health of all Californians, and the Heising 601 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:21,840 Speaker 3: Simons Foundation unlocking knowledge, opportunity, and possibilities more at hsfoundation 602 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 3: dot org. 603 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,280 Speaker 1: We started out as colleagues and then like kind of quickly, 604 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: I would say, kind of fell in love like Wompagnias, 605 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: Like we were like we're like where you been on 606 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:36,320 Speaker 1: my life