1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: I think delusion is maybe ignoring red flags like no, no, 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: it's going to be fine. What are you doing while 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: you're not listening? Those mistakes and those red flags actually 4 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: are really great gifts. Afterwards you're like, oh, I needed. 5 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:12,120 Speaker 2: To learn this. 6 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:16,240 Speaker 1: Entrepreneur Ali Webb, the co founder of driver Bar one 7 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: hundred million dollar empire. I've had this shame and didn't 8 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: want to be divorced once and now I'm heading into 9 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: divorced twice. Can I be in love with a person 10 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: and myself and what I'm doing? I haven't been able 11 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: to figure that out yet. 12 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 3: Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite 13 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 3: you to join this community to hear more interviews that 14 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 3: will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All 15 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 3: I want you to do is click on the subscribe button. 16 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 3: I love your support. It's incredible to see all your 17 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 3: comments and we're just getting started. I can't wait to 18 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,279 Speaker 3: go on this journey with you. Thank you so much 19 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 3: for subscribing. It means the world to me. The best 20 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 3: selling author and host the number one healthy well inness 21 00:00:55,440 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 3: podcast On Purpose with Jay Shetty. Hey, everyone, welcome back 22 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 3: to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. 23 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 3: Thanks to each and every one of you that come 24 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 3: back every week to listen, learn and grow. Now you 25 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 3: know that our community is all about becoming happier, healthier, 26 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 3: and more healed. And whether it's your career, whether it's 27 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 3: your relationships, whether it's your personal life, we try and 28 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 3: focus on all aspects on on purpose. Today's guest is 29 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 3: someone who's excited to share with us what I believe 30 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 3: is the truth, and it's called The Messy Truth. Ali Webb, 31 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 3: who I'm going to tell you about in a second. 32 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,839 Speaker 3: This book is all about how she sold her business 33 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 3: for millions but almost lost herself. The Messy Truth is 34 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 3: available right now. We're going to put the link in 35 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 3: the caption so you can order it while you're listening 36 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 3: to this conversation. And for those of you that don't know, 37 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 3: Ali Webb is the founder of dry Bar, New York 38 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 3: Times best selling author Can It Be, President, co founder 39 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 3: of Squeeze, bright Side, and Beckett and Quill. In twenty ten, 40 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 3: dry Bar exploded into an nationally recognized and highly sought 41 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 3: after brand, growing to over one hundred and fifty locations 42 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 3: and highly successful product line which sold for two hundred 43 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 3: and fifty five million dollars in twenty twenty. Staying true 44 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 3: to Ali's signature approach to beauty and self care, Squeeze 45 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 3: follows suit as an innovative massage concept. Ali joined forces 46 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 3: with La based jewelry designer Meredith Quill to build yet 47 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 3: another new company, now known as Beckett and Quill. Most recently, 48 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 3: Ali joined the Canopy team as president. And I'm excited 49 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 3: to talk to Ali because we bumped into each other 50 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 3: recently at a soccer game football game for Angel CITYFC. 51 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 3: Please welcome to the show, Ali Webb. Ali, thank you 52 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:43,119 Speaker 3: for being here. 53 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: Thank you, thanks for that introduction. 54 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 3: Of course you had deliver it all as I always 55 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 3: tell my guests, and I love this. You know. The 56 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 3: title of your book just immediately captured my attention because 57 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:02,679 Speaker 3: I couldn't agree more that every success story is underpinned 58 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 3: by the messy truth, and we often don't hear about 59 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 3: the messy truth. We often don't see the messy truth. 60 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 3: Sometimes we don't even want to know about the messy truth. 61 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 3: We'd rather believe in the facade or the beauty, or 62 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 3: the perfection or the perfect image that we see. And 63 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 3: I'm really glad that you're sharing this. So I have 64 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 3: lots of things I want to ask you from the 65 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 3: book today. I highly recommend everyone goes and buys the book, 66 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 3: especially if you're on your entrepreneurial journey. Maybe you want 67 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 3: to be an entrepreneur, you're thinking about it, and you 68 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 3: think about how do I figure out all of this stuff? 69 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 3: So let's start with this idea, ALI that a lot 70 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 3: of our audience, a lot of our community, wants to 71 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 3: be entrepreneurs. Yeah, they may already be entrepreneurs. Some of 72 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 3: them are struggling, some of them are winning, some of 73 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 3: them are still figuring out what they're even going to do. 74 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 3: What is the messy truth about starting that no one 75 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 3: tells you about starting specifically? 76 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: Well, you know, I think that we live in a 77 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: generation now where we're finally at the point which wasn't 78 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: the case when I was starting out, where it is 79 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: accessible to get to hear what's really going on. There's 80 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: so many panels and so many conferences where you know, 81 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: entrepreneurs are talking about more of the realist stuff, which 82 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: I'm super grateful for. Like I said, thirteen years ago, 83 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: when we started Drybar, that didn't exist, Like nobody was 84 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 1: talking about anything, you know, you didn't have access to 85 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: founders or CEOs the way you do now. 86 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 2: And it's such a beautiful thing that. 87 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: There's podcasts like this and there's places where people who 88 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: were thinking about that starting a business can go like 89 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: I have a mastermind that's launching next week. Where it's 90 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: like for entrepreneurs, like there's so much access out there now, 91 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: but you know, I think there is still understandably. So 92 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: it's like, I mean, everybody wants to look good and 93 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: everybody wants to like show their best side. And for me, 94 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 1: it's like I I've always just been drawn to the like, 95 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: you know, the realness, and maybe it's because I've always 96 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: been a bit of an underdog, you know. I mean 97 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: starting from the time I was like a kid. My 98 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: older brother Michael, who's my business partner in Drybar, you know, 99 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: he was like the overachiever in our family, like very 100 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: you know, kind of more BookSmart and just you know, 101 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,119 Speaker 1: it was kind of either always in trouble or always 102 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: doing something really amazing. There wasn't really a lot of 103 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: in between, and I was kind of a bit of 104 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: a wallflower, which if you know me now, that is 105 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 1: not my personality at all, But back then I was 106 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 1: just kind of observing my brother in trouble or doing 107 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: something great. I grew up in this with this like 108 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: I was just in the background, and I think that 109 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: as as I've gotten older, I have felt like more 110 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: wanting to you know, talk about, you know, my story 111 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: and like how I was like like a bit of 112 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: an I think I have a chapter in the book 113 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: called like the Unlikely Entrepreneur something like that. I should 114 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 1: probably know all the chapters of my but but I've 115 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: always considered myself like kind of this underdog and like 116 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: not who you'd expect to succeed. And I think I've 117 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 1: guessed I have felt called to shine light on that 118 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: because there are a lot of us out there, you know, 119 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: and I don't have a traditional path. And I think 120 00:05:57,920 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: that at one point it was like there was the 121 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 1: societal like you have to go to college, you have 122 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: to have a business degree if you want to start 123 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: a business. And now you know, there's so many I've 124 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: spoken at so many colleges that have entrepreneurial programs, which 125 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, I always get a chuckle out of because 126 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: I'm like, I didn't even go to college, Like do 127 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: you want me to not mention that, you know, but 128 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: I think it's just good to show that, like you 129 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: can find success and have success no matter who you are, 130 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: whether you went to college, didn't go to college, just 131 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: like graduate high school, didn't graduate or whatever. You know. 132 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 1: So I've I've just felt really drawn to that kind 133 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: of like underdog, like the person that you just wouldn't expect, 134 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: you know, to be successful. And so I try to, 135 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 1: you know, highlight that. And there's good there too, and 136 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 1: there's a lot of things that I am, you know, 137 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: I am really good at, but showing like a peak 138 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 1: behind the curtain to people that it's not I mean, 139 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 1: I think any entrepreneur who's listening to this knows it's 140 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: not easy. Of course, it's not easy. I feel like 141 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: I just want to talk about and highlight more of 142 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: the hard stuff than just the good stuff, you know, 143 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 1: because it's it's completely. 144 00:06:58,120 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 2: A mix bag. 145 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 1: It's not one or the other. It's usually like one 146 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: minute to one minute, like you're like, oh, this was amazing, 147 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: and then you're like the whole thing's falling apart, you know. 148 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: I mean, it's literally like that crazy. So my mission 149 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: with the book was like to highlight both, like it's 150 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,679 Speaker 1: really amazing and it's the greatest journey and it's also 151 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: incredibly hard and taxing, and like, you don't realize how 152 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: much it's going to change your life, and I don't. 153 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: I think that's good that you don't know that, you know. 154 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: I'm a little bit of like the ignorance is bliss 155 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: mentality because I feel like the less you know about 156 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: what you're getting yourself into. And I think just that 157 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: whole mindset of like, if you can accept you don't 158 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: know what you don't know, you go into things a 159 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: little like not as freaked down. 160 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, well in the book, you go into 161 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 3: in detail. Give us a snapshot for everyone who's listening 162 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 3: of what your life looked like when you even thought 163 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 3: about starting this, because that will give us a picture 164 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 3: of this yeah, underdog unlikely entrepreneurs. 165 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, I got married to my 166 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: first husband when I was twenty six. I moved to 167 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: New York City when I was eighteen because I didn't 168 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: want to go to college and I was like, I'm 169 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: going to move to New York City. 170 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 2: I feel like that will be good college. 171 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: And that's what I did, and I you know, I 172 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: jumped around from job to job, and I would eventually 173 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: go to beauty school in South Florida, and then I 174 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: moved back to New York and then I got married 175 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: and moved to LA and had two babies, and was 176 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: like I thought, I'd like hit the jackpot. Like I 177 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: loved being able to be a stay at home mom. 178 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: I really felt so blessed and lucky that I got 179 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: to be home with my boys. 180 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 2: And I was home for like, you know. 181 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: About five years before I started drybar, and that was 182 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: such an amazing time. But I did get that itch 183 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: to get back out there and start doing something for myself, 184 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: which was really just like a feeling that I had. 185 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I really wanted to have kids, and I 186 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: really wanted to be a stay at home mom, and 187 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: part of me thought i'd get really involved in the 188 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: school and stuff like that. And as I kind of 189 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,599 Speaker 1: approached that, I was like, no, I don't think I 190 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: want to do that. And not there was no right 191 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: or wrong right, it just wasn't for me. And I've 192 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: always really trusted my gut and my feeling, and I 193 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: stay very close into what feels right and I and 194 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: after staying home with my kids, it was about they 195 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: were about two and four when I started Drybar. And 196 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: about a year before we started Drybar, I got that 197 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: kind of itch to do something, and I started a 198 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: mobile blowout business, which was again just like a way 199 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: to get out of the house for a few hours, 200 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: get away from my kids, who I loved, love, loved 201 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: the whole thing, but just wanted to do something for myself. 202 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: And I knew, having done hair for so many years, 203 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: that I could do that pretty easily. I also, you know, 204 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: had this like intuition on that that if I were 205 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: to only charge forty dollars, which was like, oh, two twenties, 206 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 1: super easy, I'll come over while you're baby sleeping. 207 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 2: That was it. 208 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: You know, that maybe that would be fulfilling for me 209 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: to get out of the house talk to adults. I mean, 210 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: that's the other thing, is like when you have two 211 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: little kids and you go to the park all day 212 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: and you're you're in like kidville all day. I just 213 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: I wanted a little bit of a break from that, 214 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: and not just from my husband. So I started this 215 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: and it was so perfect at the time, and I 216 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: remember telling people that, like I remember it was, I 217 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: mean it was fifteen years ago, but it feels like 218 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: yesterday because I was like, oh, it's great. I love this, 219 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: Like I'm getting out into the world. It was a 220 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: great way for me to meet other women, and I 221 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: would It also informed a lot of the things that 222 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: we would eventually instill in Drybar, like not doing someone's 223 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: hair in front of a mirror, because I was doing 224 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: their hair in their living room and so it was 225 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: just perfect. At the time, I wasn't really making any money, 226 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: but I didn't I've never been like driven by money, 227 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: so I was like, I'm just happy to do this. 228 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: I make a little extra cash, I go and do 229 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 1: this thing that I really love doing. I get to 230 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: talk to these amazing women and it was kind of 231 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: like wildfire. I you know, women would tell their friends 232 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: and then their friend group and so it would just 233 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: grow and grow, which which is eventually why Drybar came 234 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: to be. Because I was getting so busy operating this 235 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: mobile business by myself that I was like, I think 236 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: I need to start having them come to me instead 237 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 1: of me come to them, And that's really how Drybar 238 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: was born. But I was just this like one woman 239 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: show driving my Knie Sonic Sierra around LA with like 240 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: a duffel bag full of tools and hairspray, and you 241 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: know it's funny because it's like I remember it so 242 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: while like could have never guessed it would turn into 243 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 1: the life that I have now. I mean, not in 244 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: a million years. I was just happy to be out 245 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: of the house for a couple hours. 246 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 3: You know, thank you for sharing that. I know you've 247 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 3: probably had to share that so many times. I wanted 248 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 3: you to because I just I mean, to me, I'm 249 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 3: hoping that so many people are listening and watching going 250 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 3: that's me Ali, right, Like I'm someone who like I 251 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 3: love my family, but I want to do something. I 252 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 3: have this instinct that I have something inside of me. 253 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 3: I don't know what it quite is yet or by 254 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 3: the way, I'm doing something on the side and my 255 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 3: friends all tell each other that I'm good at it, 256 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 3: and yeah, I think I could build something, but I'm 257 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 3: not sure. Like, what was it that made you feel 258 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 3: this is real and it could be bigger versus actually 259 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 3: this is great and it fulfills my needs of getting 260 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 3: out the house and giving me a little bit of 261 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 3: extra cash. Because you could argue that already felt like 262 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 3: success totally and it can be successful a lot of people. 263 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 3: What was it for you that said no, this should 264 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 3: be bigger. I can be bigger, and I want it 265 00:11:57,720 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 3: to be bigger. Yeah. 266 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,439 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well it's funny how and I'm sure you've experienced 267 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: this too, when you're doing something and it feels really right, 268 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: and then there's like these rumblings and this like inner 269 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: knowing of your like, wait a second, I might be 270 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: onto something here. And that's really how I started to 271 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: feel because I realized I was saying no more than 272 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: I was saying yes. And I was like, you know, 273 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: scratching my head, going like I'm getting so many calls, 274 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: and I was pretty good at what I was doing, 275 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: and so I was like, there's got to be something 276 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: else here. And at the time, my kids were really 277 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 1: little and my mom, who passed away eight years ago now, 278 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: but she was We used to move her everywhere. We moved, 279 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 1: like in an apartment down the street, and she loved 280 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: being near my kids, and so that was really helpful, 281 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: and she was, you know, in our lives. And I 282 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: remember being like, I wonder what would happen if we 283 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: had a location one location, you know, I'm like, my 284 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: mom could help. I could get my kids after you know, preschool, 285 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: like around three or four, I think I could still 286 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 1: make this work. And again still thinking pretty small, you 287 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: know that, like let me just go from like the 288 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,959 Speaker 1: next step from going to people's home to like opening 289 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: a store. 290 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 2: And it was so exciting, you know. 291 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: And it was just like I tell people this all 292 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: the time that you know, if you're chasing the money, 293 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,119 Speaker 1: like I mean, maybe that works sometimes in my experience 294 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: most businesses that I know of, like it's like you're 295 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: chasing something that you love. And I never I never 296 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: thought about selling the business. I never thought about making 297 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: a ton of money. I was like, I never even 298 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:25,319 Speaker 1: thought about money. We didn't, I mean for years I 299 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: didn't take much money as a salary from Drybar. I 300 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: just loved it, you know. And and when you you 301 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: know this, when you love your passion and like the 302 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: thing that you it's and you get to do it 303 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: every day, you know, it was like I just felt 304 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: like this is the coolest thing ever. And I couldn't believe, like, 305 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:42,719 Speaker 1: you know, when we first opened Drybar and so many 306 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: people were coming, and and you know, again it was 307 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: like it just felt so meant to be because this 308 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: mobile business that I had built and these women that 309 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: I had come to know in La, and some of 310 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: them were like, I mean it's La, you know, it's 311 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: like producers and actors and celebrities, and like, you know, 312 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: I was a little thrust into that world, and you know, 313 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: beyond like the celebrity just you know, there was just 314 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: so many women who were really connected. And when I 315 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: started talking to my clients, which by the way, were 316 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: the first people I talked to about Driver, I was like, 317 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 1: what do you think of this idea? And they're like, 318 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: oh my god, it's the best idea ever. But how 319 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: do you make it work? And there was like certainly naysayers, 320 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: but it was such a cool, exciting opportunity and to 321 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: have women like being like, you should totally do this. 322 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: And then we opened that first store and it was 323 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: so busy and crazy and I and I just I 324 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: loved every second of it. 325 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 2: You know, I couldn't get enough of it. 326 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 3: That's such a I love that and I want to 327 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 3: pull from it for our listeners. So something Ali said 328 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 3: that stands out to me is this idea of she 329 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 3: was taking baby steps. It was just about the next step. 330 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 3: It wasn't like I've come across domination a million dollar idea, 331 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 3: one hundred It wasn't like those crazy thought process It 332 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 3: was like, I do something it makes me happy, clients 333 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,359 Speaker 3: are happy, let's get a store. And I think sometimes 334 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 3: we kind of go from well, I have a really 335 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 3: good idea, it should be a million dollar business, a 336 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 3: billion dollar business, or whatever it may be, and we 337 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 3: don't get that next step right. So that's one thing 338 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 3: I want to share. The second thing that really stood 339 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 3: out in what you said is you asked the people 340 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 3: you were serving your clients for what they thought of 341 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 3: the idea. A lot of us ask our friends, we 342 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 3: ask our family, we ask people around us who don't 343 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 3: actually know how skilled we are at this thing, and 344 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 3: we're not asking the people who are actually going to 345 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 3: be our potential clients. And so the fact that you 346 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 3: were asking them and they were saying, oh, I'd turn 347 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 3: up there, Oh I'd recommend all my friends we're in, 348 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 3: that's a much better person to talk to when you're 349 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 3: sharing a new idea. What's the difference, Sally, Because you've 350 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 3: talked about now and in the book you talk about 351 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 3: this idea that you've always been pretty decisive, but more 352 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 3: deeply when you go into it, and I know you 353 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 3: have a deeper side to you and when you're thinking 354 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 3: about things like intention and intuition and instinct, and you 355 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 3: said I always knew, like I was always listening for 356 00:15:55,440 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 3: that inner voice. What is the difference between intuition and delusion? 357 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 3: If you had to think about how you notice the difference, 358 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 3: what would that be for you? 359 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: I think intuition is like versus delusion because I feel 360 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: like I'm well equaited with I mean that's good, yeah, 361 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: because like delusion is like something to me, at least 362 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: how it lands for me is like something that's like, 363 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: you know, a delusional view back then of Drybar would 364 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: have been like, we're going to grow this thing to 365 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty locations and we're going to sell 366 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: it for two hundred and fifty five million dollars, although 367 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: I did say early on that I thought we would have, 368 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: but not early like in a year in, I was like, 369 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: I think we're going to sell the business for two 370 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty million, and that crazy. I mean, I 371 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: feel like I manifested that. I think it kind of 372 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: goes back to what you're saying about baby steps. It's 373 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: like we're doing ourselves a disservice of you know, moving 374 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: in this like, you know, in a delusional path, I 375 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: think I would say you know, versus like saying close 376 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: in and you know. And I have gotten very into 377 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: spirituality in the last few years. And one of my 378 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: very best friends and I talk about her in the book. 379 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: Her name is pat Paige, and I always say I'm 380 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: writing her spiritual cot Tails because she's always in Tellis 381 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: and some retreat and you know, I'm just kind of 382 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: like trying. 383 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 2: To pick it up of what she's doing. 384 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: And she always says to me, stay close and you know, 385 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,199 Speaker 1: and you have to really think about that and like 386 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: what that means. And it's like, oh, for me anyways, 387 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: it means like pay really close attention. And I've really 388 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: started to think about that more and more, especially having 389 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: had a you know, a rough couple months recently. It's like, 390 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: how does this make me feel in the moment? And 391 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: I don't think I ever could have articulated that the 392 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 1: way I can now. And I think we get older, 393 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: we're wiser, we go through more things, we read more books, 394 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: we do all the things. I meditate a lot more now. 395 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: I do all that stuff now, and I pay really 396 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: close attention. I don't think I did the way I 397 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: do now back then, but I think I had it 398 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: instinctually in me. I just didn't know how to pick 399 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,719 Speaker 1: up on it, you know. Where it's like now I can. 400 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 1: I can almost like I can read something or have 401 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: a thought and like immediately get a ping in my 402 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: body of like no, this doesn't not feel good, or 403 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: get a like oh yeah, this feels really good and 404 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: it's fascinating. And the thing is, and I'm sure you have, 405 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: being who you are, would agree with this. It's like 406 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: if you get really quiet and you pay attention to 407 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:09,959 Speaker 1: that stuff, it's pretty clear. 408 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 3: You know. 409 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: I have definitely been known to purposely ignore red flags 410 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: and situations which have gotten me into some bad situations. 411 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: And it's it's really funny the awareness that we get 412 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 1: as we get older and wiser, and we make some 413 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: mistakes and we learn from them, and so I guess, 414 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,880 Speaker 1: you know, delusion is like I think delusion is maybe 415 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: ignoring red flags. You know, it's like, no, no, it's 416 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: gonna be fine, besides the fact that like you know 417 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: it's not, but you're gonna It's like what are you doing? 418 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 1: Why are you're not listening? I heard something Renee Brown said, 419 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: I'm sure she's been on the show. Oh you have 420 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: to have her on. She's amazing and she was really 421 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: there for me in my first divorce, which is crazy, 422 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: but she I just saw something recently where she was like, 423 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 1: every once in a while, the universe taps you or 424 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: not everyone's while when you get to mid age, the 425 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 1: universe like taps you on the shoulder and it's like 426 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 1: you can't run anymore. And I was like, is she 427 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,159 Speaker 1: talking to me? You know? But it's a fascinating thing 428 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 1: because I think at some point in our lives and 429 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: it seems to me like it's more midlife, you get 430 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: that tap and you're like, yeah, I gotta be really 431 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: like I got to pay attention to what's happening, Like 432 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: you can't get away with it anymore, you know. And 433 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: I think as we're when we're younger, we can. I 434 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 1: don't know why that is, and I think maybe we're 435 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: just ignoring the red flags and thinking it can just 436 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: all work out. And I'm such a like it all 437 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: works out kind of galt anyways, which I think is true. 438 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: And now I've come to realize that those mistakes and 439 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: those red flags and the things that we don't pay 440 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: attention to when we should actually are really great gifts, 441 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: not in the moment. In the moment you're like, why 442 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 1: is this happening to me? But then afterwards you're like, Oh, 443 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 1: I needed to learn this. 444 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 3: You know. 445 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: Again, my friend Paige always says, it's the medicine, you know. 446 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: She's like, this is the medicine that you need. I'm like, 447 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: it's always about the medicine, you know, But it's really true. 448 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, thank you for thank you for doing that 449 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 3: thought experiment with me into your say I really love 450 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 3: you tak it. Yeah, I love your taking it. I 451 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 3: want to pick out some moments from your book because 452 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 3: I love some of the quotes in your book and 453 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 3: things that stuck with me. And so I'm going to 454 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 3: start with this because it really, you know, enhances the 455 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 3: conversation we're having right now about your work. And he says, 456 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 3: this is page eight. The entrepreneurs today's face different challenges, 457 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 3: more noise, more competition, et cetera. It still always starts 458 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 3: with you, your idea, your skill set, your purpose, and 459 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 3: your gut instinct. And you say, what is the thing 460 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 3: that you just can't stop thinking about? Which which I 461 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 3: love that. I love that language to it but you 462 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,239 Speaker 3: talk a lot about this finding your skill set as 463 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 3: an entrepreneur, and I think there could be nothing more 464 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 3: true about than that, Like, I'm so aligned with you, 465 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 3: and I think often we're doing things we're passionate about 466 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 3: that we're not skilled at, or if we are passionate, 467 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 3: we haven't thought that we need to be skilled at it. 468 00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 3: And obviously you could be doing the opposite, where you 469 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 3: do something that you're not passionate about. Sure, and that's 470 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 3: what a job is pretty much. Yeah, but how do 471 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 3: people discover what they're skilled out? Because what I've found 472 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 3: is that most of us, when we're skilled at something, 473 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 3: we devalue it as a skill because it's so easy 474 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 3: to us. And we see someone else with another skill. 475 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 3: And you talk about this a lot in the book 476 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 3: about don't become someone else's story, don't chase another entrepreneur, 477 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,959 Speaker 3: don't try and imitate. But we look at someone So 478 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 3: for example, people will look at me and be like, oh, Jay, 479 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 3: like you're really good at X, y Z. But then 480 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 3: if I'm not aware of that skill set, I'll be 481 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 3: like no, no, no, but you're really good at ABC. 482 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 3: And then we play this kind of tag of like no, 483 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 3: I don't have your skills, but we rarely sit and go, no, 484 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 3: I'm actually really good at that because we devalue what 485 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:46,439 Speaker 3: we find easy. 486 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so true, right. 487 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 1: I think it was really highlighted in my business with 488 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: my brother and my first husband, Cam who Cam was 489 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: the creative genius behind dry bar and my brother was 490 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 1: like or the behind the scene business side of it. 491 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 1: And I was like, you know, the hairstylist and like 492 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,439 Speaker 1: the experience. And everybody always asks us like, is it 493 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: really hard to work with your brother and now ex 494 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: husband and that's not why we got divorced and whatever, 495 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: But I was like, no, it was great because we 496 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,199 Speaker 1: were all very clear on what we did and what 497 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: we did well and what our highest and best use was. 498 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: I had that conversation so many times. I still go 499 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 1: back to that what's my highest and best use always 500 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 1: in life because I think it's like really like think 501 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 1: about it, you know. 502 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,719 Speaker 2: And we had really almost no conflict. 503 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: And if we ever I mean we all talked about 504 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: all things together, but if there was ever like a 505 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: questionable thing, whoever would decide was like who's laying that was? 506 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: You know, and that was we were all very okay 507 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: with that, and I think when you do run into 508 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: problems with business partners, it's often because you guys think 509 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: you have the same skill set and then that's such 510 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: it's like five year olds playing soccer. 511 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 2: Everybody's kicking the ball. It doesn't work, you know. 512 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 1: So I feel like it is it's like the old 513 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: cliche like it doesn't feel like work if you're doing 514 00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: something you love, which I know has been said eight 515 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: million time, but like it is so true and and 516 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: I think it's like almost feels too easy to your point. 517 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: So people are like, well, I've got to challenge myself. 518 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: And of course, like you do, and you want to 519 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: keep challenging yourself. But like what a gift in life 520 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 1: to like be able. 521 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 2: To do what you love to do. 522 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,239 Speaker 1: And I think I think there's this misconception that like 523 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: you shouldn't do that, you know. It's like, you know, 524 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: for me, like when I told my parents I wanted 525 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 1: to go to beauty school, they were like really sure, 526 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: you know, and like very like look their nose down 527 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: on it, like you want to be a hairstylist. And 528 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 1: they also had I grew up in South Lorda, and 529 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: my parents said, we're entrepreneurs, which definitely informed a lot 530 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: of my or who I became. But they had this 531 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: like old Lady clothing store and it was right next 532 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: to this like old Lady hair salon, and they and 533 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: they think in their mind, they were like, you want 534 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: to work there? And I was like, no, I'm going 535 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:47,880 Speaker 1: to move to New York City. I'm gonna do editorial 536 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: and like fashion shows. And I had these like grand ideas. 537 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 1: I didn't have dry bar at the time, you know, 538 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: but it was like that's what I'd loved. Like I 539 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: grew up in South Florida, I have naturally curly hair, 540 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: and my hair was just massive and frizzy all the time. 541 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: And I was just fast by hair. I loved hair. 542 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,199 Speaker 1: It's just what I loved, you know. And so it 543 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: took me a lot. It would take me many years 544 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 1: to finally like get the courage to say, Like when 545 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: my friends were going to college and they were studying whatever, 546 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: and I was always like, how do you guys know 547 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 1: what you want to do? Very confused by that whole 548 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: notion of college and majors and all that. And I 549 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: just loved hair and that was the thing that I 550 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: really loved. And it would, you know, and I talked 551 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: about it in the book that it took me a 552 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: while to figure out again. It comes back to like 553 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: being close in like I always loved hair. I would 554 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 1: spend hours in the bathroom in high school and I 555 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,360 Speaker 1: was just so. I worked at a hair salon as 556 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: a receptionist when I was in high school because I 557 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: wanted to get free blowouts and because I loved being 558 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 1: around hairstylists. 559 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 2: And I was like, this is the thing that I love, 560 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 2: and I. 561 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: Ignored it for so many years, you know, And it's 562 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: like to be able to tap into that thing. 563 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 2: And and you can't find a person. There's nobody you can. 564 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: Meet and say, what do you really love to do? 565 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: And they may not tell you because they're embarrassed, or 566 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: they don't do it as a job because they like 567 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: my parents want to prove, my husband want to prove 568 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: whoever won't think it's a good idea. My parents did 569 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: not think it was a good idea to go to 570 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: beauty school. But I had enough, like hootsbu to be like, 571 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,239 Speaker 1: I hear you, but it's what I want to do, 572 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: you know. And I had no idea I was going 573 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: to turn into like this beautiful life that it did 574 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: for me. But I was just like, stay really focused. 575 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 1: And I talk about that a lot to entrepreneurs that 576 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: I'm mentoring. It's like, don't you know, shut all that out, 577 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: you know, listen to what really feels like is good 578 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: for you, not what everybody else around you wants. 579 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 3: You know. It's almost like that question that's come from 580 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 3: what you're saying, is what's that voice you're ignoring on 581 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 3: the inside or what's that idea that you keep kind 582 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 3: of putting away because you're like, that's ridiculous, Oh that's stupid. Yeah, 583 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,479 Speaker 3: and you've heard that voice before where someone looked at 584 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 3: you weird because you actually shared your intention, yeah, your 585 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 3: excitement and ever I looked at you like, that's not 586 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 3: real over it. 587 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: And by the way, people do that at Drybar, because 588 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, it was it was in 589 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,239 Speaker 1: the middle of a recession and people were like, how 590 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: do you make this concept work? It's like, you know, 591 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: we were starting at thirty five dollars a blowout and it 592 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: was like you have to do a lot of blowouts 593 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: to make that business work. And I was like, yeah, 594 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,239 Speaker 1: you know, but I think we can do it. And like, 595 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,439 Speaker 1: I literally not not great at math, but I was like, 596 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: I think if we can do like, you know, ten 597 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: blowouts an hour and we're open, you know, ten hours 598 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: to day, like I think it'll work, you know. And 599 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 1: I remember my brother started like putting an actual spreadsheet 600 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: together and running the numbers. It was like, yeah, if 601 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: we do thirty or forty blowouts today, we'll have a 602 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: nice business, you know. And of course we never did 603 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: that little We always did like seventy eighty one hundred 604 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: blow out, say, which was just bananas. But it was 605 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: like people were the ones who put it in my 606 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,719 Speaker 1: head that like, maybe maybe this idea doesn't work. I mean, 607 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: so many people and then we started raising money, and 608 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 1: you know, that's a whole other conversation of like raising 609 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: money with like walking into these rooms with men in 610 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: suits who like did not understand the concept of drybar, 611 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: and we're like what, you know, like how does this work? 612 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: And just didn't believe in it. So many people didn't 613 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: believe in it, and it did seem like a tough 614 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: you know, how do you make this work? Like on 615 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: a large scale, is there enough women who want to 616 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: do this? Is the price the price points really low? 617 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: Like margins are really thin? How does it work, and 618 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 1: you know, and I just I'm like, I'm just telling you. 619 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 1: I really, you know, from a gut level, know that 620 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: this is going to work. And then you're like, oh shit, 621 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,199 Speaker 1: this better work, you know. But it did. And I 622 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: always felt like there was money on the line for sure, 623 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: and that's not a small thing. But you know, I 624 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,159 Speaker 1: remember when I started cutting hair, and I mean when 625 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: you're starting to cut hair and you have really sharp 626 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: scissors in your hand, it is very scary and like 627 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,360 Speaker 1: and you know, it's so funny. It's like the very 628 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: first hair. 629 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 3: I never trust myself, Oh my god, or anyone else. 630 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: It's the worst and. 631 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 3: I'm like, no, I'm not going anywhere. 632 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,199 Speaker 1: The first haircut I ever did in beauty school, I 633 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 1: cut someone's ear and I felt like I was going 634 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: to die. And the ears bleed so much. And I thought, when. 635 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 3: You cut someone's ear, how much. 636 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 1: Just like just a little nip on the I mean, 637 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 1: it was it was I remember, it was so traumatized. 638 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: I'm sure for them, but for me. And also in 639 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: beauty school you're doing like two dollars haircuts and so 640 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: you're learning. You know, I still have like nightmares about 641 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,479 Speaker 1: that because it was like the worst thing that can 642 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 1: happen beside that weird story, which I don't think I've 643 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 1: ever talked a very body about. 644 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 2: It was very traumatizing for me, But. 645 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: I always felt like at the end of the day 646 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: when I was on the floor cutting and when I 647 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 1: was doing all that, and you know, and then when 648 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 1: we were starting drybar, I was like, no one's gonna 649 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: die if this business doesn't work, like which is like 650 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: the worst possible outcome. 651 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 2: It's like we're not doing surgery. 652 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: We're not we don't, you know. And and I and 653 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 1: I always like found comfort in that because I was like, 654 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: you know, there's always the chance that we're going to 655 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: lose money. In my case, it was going to really 656 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: be my brother's money and my you know, my my 657 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: husband at the time, and I put in our life savings, 658 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,239 Speaker 1: which wasn't really that much but a lot to us 659 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: at the time, and you know, I was like, it's 660 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: gonna really suck and we're going to lose money, but 661 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: we're like, we're really smart, capable people, and if this 662 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: idea doesn't work, like we'll figure something else out. And 663 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: I think that that mindset of like you got to 664 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: just like put it on the line is like it 665 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: is really why I think I've been successful. It's like 666 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: not holding anything too tightly of like, yeah, I really 667 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: hope this works, and I really think this is going 668 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,479 Speaker 1: to work. But if it doesn't, like we're all going 669 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: to be okay, you know. And I think that's like, 670 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: you know, I think a lot a lot of entrepreneurs 671 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: I talk to are like, I have to have this 672 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 1: much money, stave, and I have to do this, and 673 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: I have to do this, and I have this. I 674 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, prepare for sure, but like. 675 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 2: At some point you're gonna have to just jump, you know, 676 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 2: and hope. 677 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: For the best. 678 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, there is there is a moment for that lead. 679 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. 680 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 3: I want to drive into a couple of things here 681 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 3: that you've mentioned that I think really stood out. And 682 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 3: you talk about this, and we would talking about this 683 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,479 Speaker 3: a bit offline. It was this idea of page thirteen, 684 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 3: you say, if you feel like an impostor, embrace it. 685 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. 686 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 3: And I feel like imposter syndrome has been something that 687 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 3: a lot of people are talking about. 688 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. 689 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 3: I think it's something that there are even more people 690 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 3: that are feeling than are talking about it, and it 691 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 3: seems to be a recurring feeling. Yeah, whenever you're in 692 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 3: a new room or a new league or a new zone. 693 00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 3: When you say embrace it. 694 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: Well, I think to your point of people talking about 695 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: it a lot, they talk about it like it's a 696 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: bad thing, and I think I think of it as 697 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: a good thing. If you're embarking on a position in 698 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: a new job, or you're starting a company or whatever 699 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: you're doing that's new to you, like that's amazing, Like 700 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: you're starting something new, You're you're taking that leap of faith. 701 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 2: You're you know, putting yourself. 702 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: In a situation that you've not been in, and that's 703 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: really scary for sure, but it's also really exciting and exhilarating, 704 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: and it means you're growing and you're in this next 705 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: new phase in your life. And so this this negative 706 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: association with imposter syndrome as if it's like a bad thing, 707 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: it has definitely happened to me. 708 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 2: I think maybe because I. 709 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: Had never had any real formal training in anything other 710 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: than hair where I would start a job and I 711 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: was like, no, I'm underqualified for this job, but I'm 712 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: going to like figure it out. And I and I 713 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 1: would you know, and I guess that was part of it. Like, yes, 714 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: I am an imposter technically, I don't know how to 715 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: do this job, but you better believe I'm going to 716 00:30:58,480 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: figure it out and do it well. 717 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 2: And it's no dient with entrepreneurship. 718 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: I mean when we started Drybar, I had never like 719 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: been in charge of that many people. I'd never managed 720 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: a salon like I'd never my parents didn't I watch them, 721 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: and i worked for owners of hair salons, and. 722 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 2: I've been a stylist for years. 723 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: Like I had a lot of the things that I 724 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: think I needed had but I had never actually done it, 725 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 1: and so I was learning it as I went, which 726 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,959 Speaker 1: was scary but also amazing. And I also think when 727 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: you come in again, nothing I could have articulated them. 728 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: But a term I think we're hearing more and more 729 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: now is this like beginner's mindset, you know. And I 730 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: had that when I was when we were starting Drybar, 731 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: because I was quite literally a beginner and running a 732 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: business and I made a lot of mistakes and I 733 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: had to figure out a lot of things. And that's 734 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: that's also the beauty of this book is that I 735 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,719 Speaker 1: feel like I got an education in this. I got 736 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: like a you know, a business degree while I was 737 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: running a business, because I was having to figure all 738 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: these things out, and I made tons of wrong. 739 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 2: Decisions and bad choices. 740 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 3: You know. 741 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: I also think I felt not necessarily imposter syndrome, but 742 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: I think I felt this like men's pressure because I 743 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: was the boss, like I had to know all the 744 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: answers and I had to Like if you came to 745 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 1: me and asked me a question about the business, I'd 746 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: be like, well, here's what I think, even though it 747 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: wasn't always right. It was just like me havy. And 748 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: I used to think that that was like, oh, you're 749 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: just the boss, and you just you your book stops 750 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: with you and you have to And now I feel 751 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: like and how I approach that question now is like, 752 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: well what do you think? Which is not something I 753 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: would have said. And that's like I think that was 754 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: all ego because I was like, oh, I feel this pressure, 755 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: like I'm supposed to know the answer because I'm sitting 756 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: where I'm sitting in this company, and now I'm like, well, 757 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: what do you think about that? And then people are 758 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: like what you know? And I'm like, well I don't. 759 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: I actually don't know the answer, but I'd love to 760 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: hear what you think. But I didn't have enough, like 761 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: you know, I was too focused on like feeling like 762 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: I had to be And maybe that does go back 763 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: to imposter syndrome. I felt like I needed to know 764 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 1: all the answers because I was the boss and this 765 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,959 Speaker 1: was my company and blah blah blah. Where now I'm like, 766 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: there's so much freedom in saying I don't know, you know, 767 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 1: like let's. 768 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 2: Talk about it. 769 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: And then the culture that you create in a company 770 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: when you're like the kind of boss that's like not 771 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: to know at all and people aren't afraid to be like, hey, Jay, 772 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: you know, I actually think that if we tried this, 773 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: this and that, Like I'm sure people do that in 774 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: your company. Like I'm when someone comes up to you 775 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: and they're like, I actually think if we tried blah 776 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: blah blah, and your response is like no, you know, 777 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: they're never coming to you with something again. 778 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 2: But if your response is like, oh, that's. 779 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: Interesting, you know, and you may not always take it, 780 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: but that beginners that feels to me like a beginner's 781 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 1: mindset of like I'm open to other ways, and I 782 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: think that there's a part of I know there's a 783 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: part of me that gets a little like you know, 784 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: and it's also like I feel like I know best, 785 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 1: and we go into our ego of like, no, but 786 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: I know what I'm doing. How But embracing what somebody 787 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: else is bringing to you I think is really powerful. 788 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: And that's something that took me a long time to 789 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: get comfortable with. 790 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's something that you've reminded me on you talk 791 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 3: about this on page fifty two. You're saying being open 792 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 3: to feedback, personal or professional, is a practice, a learned 793 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 3: intention to stop taking the information, maybe going a walk, 794 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 3: take some deep breaths, and come back open to hearing 795 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 3: what someone else is feeling. And I wanted to ask 796 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 3: you what's been the best or most memorable piece of 797 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 3: feedback that you gained on your professional journey that's kind 798 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 3: of stuck with you where maybe even in the moment 799 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 3: it was so painful to hear Yeah, but you now 800 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 3: look back and go, I believe that. Well. 801 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: I think thinking of feedback as a gift, which I 802 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,320 Speaker 1: learned pretty early on. And I remember, you know somebody 803 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: in our company who said it. I heard her say 804 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: at once, and I was like, wow, that's so profound 805 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 1: because if you can be open to what someone is 806 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 1: telling you, which is so hard and it is painful. 807 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 1: And you know, I remember my brother saying to me 808 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 1: once like people are scared of you. And I was like, what, 809 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: you know, just no awareness on my part, Like I 810 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: was like, what are you talking about? What are you 811 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: talking about? What do you mean people are scared of me? 812 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 3: Like? 813 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 1: And he was like, well, because you know, yeah this joke, 814 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 1: Yeah I was, but in the moment, I really was 815 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: taken aback by it. And I was like, I'm so nice, 816 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 1: what do you mean? And he was like, well, you know, 817 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: you walk in the stores and you lose your mind. 818 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 1: And I was like, I do that because I'm so passionate, 819 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: you know. And I was covering it up with like, 820 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: I'm so passionate and I want things to be perfect, 821 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: and I did. But I would learn over time that 822 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: that walking in and like you know, I would, I would. 823 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: You could see it all over my face because I 824 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 1: was like, why are the floorboards dirty? 825 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 2: Why is the music not up? 826 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: Why did this person not get greeted that way? I mean, 827 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: just for me, it was like, you know, it was 828 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: like centory overload of everything that was wrong, which I 829 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: think is a blessing and a curse because you're like, well, 830 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: I am the person this is my baby, Like I 831 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:48,880 Speaker 1: am the person who has to be the one that's like, 832 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,319 Speaker 1: this is not working and we need to fix this. 833 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: But I also would learn that people were excited when 834 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: I would come in the store, and they wanted to 835 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 1: tell me the good things. And I did start to 836 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 1: perpetuate this reputation of like Alice's come and watch out, 837 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: and you know, part of me was like, I think, 838 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: maybe that's a good thing, but then I was like, no, 839 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: it's not. And I would learn eventually to you know, 840 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: like I would take notes and I would then like, 841 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,359 Speaker 1: you know, not like ruin everybody's day when I would 842 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,840 Speaker 1: come in the store, you know. And I had to 843 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 1: learn that the hard way. But it really did take 844 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: my brother probably one of the only few people in 845 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 1: our company who felt comfortable enough to say to me 846 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: because he wasn't scared of me. 847 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 2: You know, he'd be like, people are. 848 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,840 Speaker 1: Scared of you, and I again, at first, I was 849 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:30,839 Speaker 1: very defensive and I told him he was wrong, and 850 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 1: you know, it was also my big brother, but it 851 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 1: really like sunk in and I was like, man, I 852 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 1: don't want that. I don't want people to be scared 853 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: of me. I want people to be able to talk 854 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: to me. I don't want people to feel like they 855 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: have to protect me either, which was also another thing 856 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 1: that drove me crazy and still does to this day. 857 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 1: Like I don't you know, I'm sure you agree with this. 858 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: It's like you don't want to be surrounded by yes people, 859 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 1: like please no, tell me, tell me the truth, tell 860 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: me what people are saying. I want to know what 861 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: people are thinking if I if I can't ascertain that 862 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 1: on my own, you know, so if you have people 863 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 1: around you who are willing to give you like the feedback, 864 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 1: it's like you're only going to be better for it, 865 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,319 Speaker 1: you know it. It stings in the moment, and it 866 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 1: still does. Like you know, sometimes someone will tell me 867 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: something and I'll be like, oh gosh, like I can't 868 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: believe that. And then if you're open to it, and 869 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: then you you then now you have the awareness about it, 870 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: and I'll tell you. I'm like, I don't think you 871 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,360 Speaker 1: have children, right, you know? For me, I have a 872 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: sixteen and eighteen year old, two boys, and like talk 873 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,280 Speaker 1: about honesty. I mean, I'm really really close to my kids. 874 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 1: But they will tell me things like that are very 875 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 1: hard here, and it is a real practice, a mental 876 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: exercise for me to not you know. 877 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:39,879 Speaker 2: And my kids used to say to me, like. 878 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 1: Because I've because during the drybar era, when I was like, 879 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,839 Speaker 1: guess a little scary, you know, my kids would even 880 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 1: say to me like, we don't know what version you're 881 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: gonna of you we're going to get, which is like, 882 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,720 Speaker 1: oh yeah. And I was like, but I know that now, 883 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 1: and now like the power is in my control, like 884 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 1: I can be like okay, And it literally just happened. 885 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 1: I was with my son is at Dennison and University 886 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: in Ohio. He's playing football, and I went out to 887 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 1: see him and this, you know, he like came off 888 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 1: the field, you know, he was like didn't really want 889 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 1: to talk about some of the stuff that we want 890 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,239 Speaker 1: to talk about. And my younger son said to me, like, 891 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 1: just give him a minute, mom, And I was like 892 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: what he's like, just give him a minute. And I 893 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 1: was like, oh right. You know, because as a mom 894 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 1: and anybody listening to this, who's a mom, You're like 895 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: when your kid isn't like perfect and happy, You're like, 896 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 1: what's wrong? What's wrong? What's wrong? 897 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 2: How can I fix it? 898 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 1: What can I do to? You know, we get and 899 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,279 Speaker 1: we go into that like mama bear protective mode. And 900 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: my younger son looked at me and he's like, Mom, 901 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: give him a minute. And I did get defensive with 902 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 1: him for a second and I was like, what are 903 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 1: you talking about? You know, and he's like, you know, 904 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: and I was like, you're right, you know, and I 905 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,400 Speaker 1: was like okay, and I thanked him, you know, and 906 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,880 Speaker 1: I backed up and I was like, when he's ready 907 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:51,360 Speaker 1: to talk to me about it, he'll talk to me 908 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 1: about it, and sure enough, he did a couple hours 909 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,760 Speaker 1: later talk he opened up and it was like such 910 00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 1: a great lesson and reminder of like, so you know, 911 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 1: you need to give people space and you can't just 912 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: have what you want when you want it. And that's 913 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 1: been a really hard lesson for me. And I think 914 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: it's also like being at the helm of a company 915 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,759 Speaker 1: and having this like mentality of like I can do 916 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:14,800 Speaker 1: and say whatever I want because I'm the boss and 917 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,280 Speaker 1: blah blah blah, you can just do whatever. That bleeds 918 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 1: over into your real life, which you know, my kids 919 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 1: are kind of a living example of that of like 920 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:24,319 Speaker 1: you know. And I used to say things to my 921 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 1: kids like I've been around longer than you guys, and 922 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,240 Speaker 1: I just know. And they're like, you don't always know, mom, 923 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: you know. And it's like, you know, so your kids 924 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: are like talk about mirrors, you know, and they they've 925 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,319 Speaker 1: all of that awareness. I think has been such a 926 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 1: gift to me, and that you can get that anywhere 927 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 1: in your life, from your best friend, from your spouse, 928 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 1: from someone who works for you or with you. It's like, 929 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 1: if you ask genuinely, they're going to tell you. And like, 930 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,480 Speaker 1: what a gift to like get that awareness, and you know, 931 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,479 Speaker 1: and it does sting for a second, and then you're like, oh, okay, 932 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: I'm going to take that and be better. My best 933 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:02,840 Speaker 1: friend tells me stuff too, you know. It's like thank you, 934 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 1: you know. 935 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, And it requires that beginner's mindset, that humility to 936 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,360 Speaker 3: accept it and receive it. And my wife does it 937 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,719 Speaker 3: with me all the time. And it's so much easier 938 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 3: to defend yourself, to mask yourself, to shield yourself in 939 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,399 Speaker 3: a false sense. And what you don't realize is every 940 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 3: time you pretend to shield yourself from good feedback, you're 941 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,719 Speaker 3: just setting yourself up for more downfall. It happens again 942 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:33,759 Speaker 3: and again, and the ego is so well equipped to 943 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 3: keep drawing the sword and cutting down everything in its way, 944 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 3: and it's perfect at it because that's its job. Yeah, 945 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 3: but it's not protection. It's actually your resilience is getting 946 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 3: thinner and thinner and thinner and getting weaker and weak 947 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,440 Speaker 3: and weaker. I wanted to ask you because you're shifting 948 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,759 Speaker 3: into that, you know that. I love how honest you 949 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 3: were about the kind of feedback you get from kids. 950 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,279 Speaker 3: I think people often talk about, oh, you know, my 951 00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,560 Speaker 3: kids said I'm not cool anymore, whatever, that kind of 952 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,120 Speaker 3: stuff that is insting. But hearing this kind of stuff, 953 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,560 Speaker 3: do you think it's because you definitely have a take 954 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:08,919 Speaker 3: on this in your book, Like do you think it's 955 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 3: possible to be really materially successful and have a happy marriage. 956 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:15,280 Speaker 3: I got those two things possible. 957 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:20,280 Speaker 1: My first marriage, which was like sixteen years, didn't work, 958 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 1: not because of the business, And I think that it's 959 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: like I joke a lot that, like people were like, 960 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,080 Speaker 1: you know, it must have been hard to work with 961 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:28,960 Speaker 1: your husband. I was like, yeah, we got divorced, you know, 962 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,719 Speaker 1: but that's not really you know, it's a joke. Which 963 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,799 Speaker 1: of course is like a deflection, but more true was that, 964 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:37,799 Speaker 1: like we probably never should have gotten married in the 965 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,200 Speaker 1: first place. Like we met when we were twenty six, 966 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 1: and I'm pretty sure I put this in the book, 967 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,759 Speaker 1: that he tried to call the wedding off a month 968 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: before the wedding and I was like, oh no, we 969 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,759 Speaker 1: are not doing that, like and he had some real 970 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: good reasons for that, Like, you know, the relationship was 971 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 1: really hot and heavy in the beginning, it had faded 972 00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:57,960 Speaker 1: quite a bit, like the intimacy wasn't really there, but 973 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,960 Speaker 1: we were best friends. And I would later learned that, 974 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 1: like my parents had that marriage, which they ended up 975 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 1: getting divorced too, And I think I definitely emulated my parents' marriage, 976 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,320 Speaker 1: which is just wild when you read all that about 977 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 1: how we do that, because I didn't see it at all. 978 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,359 Speaker 1: But you know, we we had kids very quickly, which 979 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 1: I really wanted. I was very like, I'm very driven, 980 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 1: and I was like, I want children, and so we 981 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,240 Speaker 1: had kids a year after we got married. And then 982 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,719 Speaker 1: you know, like I said, we started the business drive 983 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:27,520 Speaker 1: Bar when my kids were three and five. So it 984 00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:29,719 Speaker 1: was like boom boom boom, and Drive Bar felt like 985 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:31,839 Speaker 1: a third baby, and then you know, Cam was doing 986 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:33,760 Speaker 1: all the creative and I was doing all the other stuff, 987 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:35,480 Speaker 1: and so you know, we're on this path. 988 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,920 Speaker 2: And I knew all along. 989 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:40,799 Speaker 1: And so did he, even though we didn't want to 990 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 1: admit it that like this wasn't like this can't be it, 991 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:45,880 Speaker 1: this can't be like what it's supposed to be. 992 00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:48,000 Speaker 2: But you know, we didn't. 993 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,120 Speaker 1: Want to like disrupt our lives, and we you know, 994 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 1: it's just like it's a lot to get divorced. And 995 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,960 Speaker 1: I didn't want to be a divorced person. And I 996 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,640 Speaker 1: liked the facade that I had at least two really 997 00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,520 Speaker 1: cute boys with great hair and this amazing husband and 998 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:01,960 Speaker 1: he was like the you know, the brainchild of the 999 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,200 Speaker 1: creative driver, which is amazing. I was like, I loved 1000 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,279 Speaker 1: the way the package looked, but I knew it wasn't right, 1001 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,319 Speaker 1: you know, the material success. I didn't I didn't want 1002 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,360 Speaker 1: to shatter the whole image, you know, and and obviously, 1003 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,919 Speaker 1: like i've you know, come to realize that like you 1004 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 1: just you have to and that's the message, ruth of 1005 00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,319 Speaker 1: it all. And then it was then I made the 1006 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,920 Speaker 1: really hard decision to end the marriage. And then my son, 1007 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,560 Speaker 1: who's now eighteen and doing really well at Dennison. He 1008 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,879 Speaker 1: went into rehab because he started doing drugs and there's 1009 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:34,040 Speaker 1: a whole chapter about that, and just my life completely unraveled, 1010 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,319 Speaker 1: you know. And and to your question, it was like, 1011 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:38,680 Speaker 1: on this hand, I had all this success and I 1012 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,080 Speaker 1: was like doing all this cool stuff, and like anybody 1013 00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,400 Speaker 1: who didn't know me, I was like I was a 1014 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:46,759 Speaker 1: guest on Shark Tank, like the coolest thing ever. 1015 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:48,719 Speaker 2: I was like on Ink magazine on the cover. 1016 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:50,319 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just like all these really cool things 1017 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,800 Speaker 1: were happening, and you look at my life, like, Wow, 1018 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,319 Speaker 1: what a cool life she's got. And then all this 1019 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,239 Speaker 1: success and I was being you know, praised, and it 1020 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,799 Speaker 1: was great, but then my life was falling apart, you know. 1021 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:04,240 Speaker 1: And so no, I didn't I wasn't able to hold both. 1022 00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,880 Speaker 1: And then I come out of Grant after about two years, 1023 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,960 Speaker 1: like it really worked, all the treatment we put Grant through, 1024 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,520 Speaker 1: and he really came out on top, and he really 1025 00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:15,440 Speaker 1: did the work, and he's such a I mean, he 1026 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,320 Speaker 1: ended up in a couple of different programs. One of 1027 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,719 Speaker 1: them was an outdoor wilderness program in Utah, which I 1028 00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 1: actually think every human should probably have to go through. 1029 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,239 Speaker 1: We went to visit him once and he was like 1030 00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 1: making fire out of like, you know, two sticks, and 1031 00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 1: he was like learned how to mean the thing. It 1032 00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,760 Speaker 1: was amazing and I was like, this is really profound, 1033 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,600 Speaker 1: and he really came out such a better. 1034 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:39,160 Speaker 2: Person on the other side. And it also brought me and. 1035 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,600 Speaker 1: My ex together because we had to like do group 1036 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,759 Speaker 1: family group therapy and family there and all the things. 1037 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:45,960 Speaker 1: And it was also one of those things that I 1038 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 1: actually thought might kill me because it was so painful, 1039 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,960 Speaker 1: but it actually was a blessing in disguise. I mean, 1040 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,080 Speaker 1: the insight and the person that Grant turned into and 1041 00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,719 Speaker 1: the other side of that is just remarkable. And it 1042 00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,400 Speaker 1: brought me and my ex back together as friend and 1043 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:02,400 Speaker 1: like we learned how to co parent because of all that, 1044 00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,440 Speaker 1: and even my younger son really bet I mean, it 1045 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,800 Speaker 1: was all like such an amazing blessing. At the time, 1046 00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,719 Speaker 1: I wouldn't have ever i mean asked for that, you know. 1047 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,440 Speaker 1: And so it was like the both and and the 1048 00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,160 Speaker 1: odds and the duality of what I was living. And 1049 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,799 Speaker 1: then I came out of that situation, you know, and 1050 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:23,520 Speaker 1: rushed back into another relationship that was like now I'm 1051 00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 1: looking for like real love because I didn't feel like 1052 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:27,440 Speaker 1: I had it the way I wanted it in my 1053 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,920 Speaker 1: first marriage. And then I jump into that, you know, 1054 00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:31,880 Speaker 1: And at that time we were like, you know, it 1055 00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,000 Speaker 1: was right before that I met him, like five months 1056 00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,160 Speaker 1: before the pandemic, and I was already kind of like 1057 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:39,919 Speaker 1: transitioning out of dry Bar in a lot of ways 1058 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:41,480 Speaker 1: because the company was so big, we had so many 1059 00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,200 Speaker 1: people running it now, and what I was doing on 1060 00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,960 Speaker 1: a day to day basis wasn't really there anymore. And 1061 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,799 Speaker 1: and now I was like, you know, just looking for 1062 00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: love and like and then I found it and I. 1063 00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:54,160 Speaker 2: Was like, oh, I think this is what it's supposed 1064 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:54,360 Speaker 2: to be. 1065 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,439 Speaker 1: And I was, you know, madly in love with this man, 1066 00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,080 Speaker 1: and I wasn't paying attention to anything else, you know, 1067 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,000 Speaker 1: and to any of the red flags that were there 1068 00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,840 Speaker 1: that I now really see you we're there. And so 1069 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,359 Speaker 1: I again to your question, which is such a good one, 1070 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,040 Speaker 1: like I couldn't hold both. 1071 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:09,680 Speaker 3: You know. 1072 00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,319 Speaker 1: It was like I now I was like stepping away 1073 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,160 Speaker 1: from Drybar and now I was stepping. 1074 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:14,799 Speaker 2: Into just love. 1075 00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,959 Speaker 1: And I lost completely lost myself on that side. 1076 00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:18,160 Speaker 3: You know. 1077 00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,160 Speaker 1: It was like I lost myself in the dry Bar 1078 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,040 Speaker 1: world and put my love life and even my kids 1079 00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,279 Speaker 1: a little bit on hold. And now I was in 1080 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:27,560 Speaker 1: the other side of it where I'm madly in love, 1081 00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:32,000 Speaker 1: and I lost the other side of my own personal purpose, 1082 00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,760 Speaker 1: you know, and I kind of enmeshed into his world. 1083 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,600 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh my god, And now, as 1084 00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:42,399 Speaker 1: you know, we're going through a divorce and I could 1085 00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,239 Speaker 1: never have imagined that would happen. But on on the 1086 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,200 Speaker 1: other side of it, I'm like, oh, yeah, you know. 1087 00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,360 Speaker 1: It's like what I haven't learned yet, which I'm hoping 1088 00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,120 Speaker 1: I get now, is that, you know, I have to 1089 00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:58,080 Speaker 1: keep myself intact, like what do I love and what 1090 00:46:58,120 --> 00:46:59,120 Speaker 1: do I want to be doing? 1091 00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:00,919 Speaker 2: And can I love somebody. 1092 00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:04,520 Speaker 1: Else while I'm in that place, because I would throw 1093 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:05,840 Speaker 1: everything else out the windows. 1094 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,000 Speaker 2: Like when I was building Drybar, it was like only Drybar. 1095 00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,279 Speaker 1: When I was like falling in love with this new man, 1096 00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,920 Speaker 1: it was only him, and I lost myself and like 1097 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,000 Speaker 1: he was building a business and he was really busy 1098 00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:16,960 Speaker 1: and he had little kids and whatever, and so I 1099 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,920 Speaker 1: threw myself into his world and like kind of forgot 1100 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:23,000 Speaker 1: about myself and even now and hasn't been that long, 1101 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,040 Speaker 1: but I'm like coming back into my own and I'm 1102 00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:26,880 Speaker 1: like this book and I have all these projects and 1103 00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,120 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I'm getting back to myself and I 1104 00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:34,480 Speaker 1: would like to have love too, but like also, you know, 1105 00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,080 Speaker 1: and I'm so it's such a good question. I love 1106 00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,400 Speaker 1: that you asked it because I haven't been able to 1107 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,000 Speaker 1: find it yet and I get it now and now 1108 00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,600 Speaker 1: I'm like anxious to like try it out, you know, 1109 00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,080 Speaker 1: and be like, can I be in love madly in love, 1110 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,239 Speaker 1: have the right kind of love with a person and 1111 00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,480 Speaker 1: myself and what I'm doing. I haven't been able to 1112 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:55,880 Speaker 1: figure that out yet. And I think, you know, I 1113 00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,919 Speaker 1: think a lot of us it falls one of those 1114 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,160 Speaker 1: things inevitably fall by the way. I guess. I don't know. 1115 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:02,800 Speaker 2: I don't know how other people's lives are. 1116 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:04,680 Speaker 1: Like, you know, I just you know, it's funny. I 1117 00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:07,239 Speaker 1: was we were talking to a couple recently and they 1118 00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,760 Speaker 1: were the wife said something like, you know, our marriage 1119 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,719 Speaker 1: is good enough, and I was like, you know, and 1120 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:14,960 Speaker 1: she said it in front of her husband, and the 1121 00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,000 Speaker 1: husband was like, you know, and I was like, there're 1122 00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,319 Speaker 1: definitely some stuff going back over there. But it is 1123 00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,520 Speaker 1: interesting and it's like, how do you do that? 1124 00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,480 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if you guys, No. 1125 00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:29,560 Speaker 3: I mean I don't. The first thing is the challenging 1126 00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:33,799 Speaker 3: thing about any relationship, whether it's business or marriage, is 1127 00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:37,600 Speaker 3: that there's two minds. And as we know, our mind 1128 00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:41,080 Speaker 3: is always changing and growing and evolving. Now imagine that 1129 00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,239 Speaker 3: times too. Are they changing at the same time in 1130 00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:44,879 Speaker 3: the same way? 1131 00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:45,399 Speaker 1: Yeah? 1132 00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,959 Speaker 3: No, Are they having the same thought at the same 1133 00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:52,120 Speaker 3: time every day? No? Do they have the same dreams 1134 00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,560 Speaker 3: and aspirations every day? No? And so we should be 1135 00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:59,160 Speaker 3: more surprised when people get together and stayed together than 1136 00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:03,279 Speaker 3: when people said and move apart. It's actually remarkable that 1137 00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,560 Speaker 3: anyone could spend their life with another person for a 1138 00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,040 Speaker 3: long amount of time than it is that people find 1139 00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:09,799 Speaker 3: it hard to stay. 1140 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,160 Speaker 1: I mean that statement in and of itself makes me 1141 00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:15,400 Speaker 1: feel so good, because it's like, I've had this shame. 1142 00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,359 Speaker 1: I didn't want to be divorced once, and now I'm 1143 00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,920 Speaker 1: heading into divorced twice. And I really I think a 1144 00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:24,320 Speaker 1: lot of my sadness and grief when this first happened 1145 00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:28,600 Speaker 1: was because I was like embarrassed and I was like, I, what, 1146 00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:32,359 Speaker 1: like this second marriage, I'm getting divorced again, like holy shit, 1147 00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:34,919 Speaker 1: you know, and just all the like shame, what's wrong 1148 00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:36,839 Speaker 1: with me? But it's such, which is why I really 1149 00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,359 Speaker 1: love and I hope people who are listening to that 1150 00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,480 Speaker 1: like feel that too, because and I was telling you before, 1151 00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:44,080 Speaker 1: like I get a lot of people who now reach 1152 00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:46,440 Speaker 1: out to me and they're like, I'm really unhappy in 1153 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:46,840 Speaker 1: my marriage. 1154 00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:47,720 Speaker 2: Should I leave my husband? 1155 00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:51,480 Speaker 1: And I'm like, I don't know, don't ask me, but 1156 00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:53,960 Speaker 1: like it's a good thing to ask yourself, you know, 1157 00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:56,120 Speaker 1: And I do think you're right. It's like we grow 1158 00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:58,840 Speaker 1: and change and you know, and in my case, I 1159 00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:02,360 Speaker 1: don't think we were having the conversations enough. That's like, 1160 00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,520 Speaker 1: and we ignored a lot of things. And granted it 1161 00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:08,279 Speaker 1: was like a really weird time and our relationship got 1162 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:10,560 Speaker 1: very fast tracked because of COVID, and like we moved 1163 00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:12,440 Speaker 1: in together after five months. I don't know that we 1164 00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,120 Speaker 1: would have done that had COVID not thrust this like 1165 00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,080 Speaker 1: very crazy change into all of our lives. And you know, 1166 00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:21,160 Speaker 1: I think it all happened the way it was supposed 1167 00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:24,160 Speaker 1: to you. But it is a like, yeah, we're always 1168 00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:26,680 Speaker 1: growing and changing and how do you do that together? 1169 00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,160 Speaker 3: There's two kind of thought experiments that I think can 1170 00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,239 Speaker 3: help people with what we're talking about, not as solutions, 1171 00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:34,839 Speaker 3: but as And it's what you just said, if you're 1172 00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,520 Speaker 3: not having the right conversations with yourself and if you're 1173 00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,720 Speaker 3: not having the right conversations with that person, yeah, everything's 1174 00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,279 Speaker 3: going to feel like a surprise. Yeah, And everything's going 1175 00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,960 Speaker 3: to kind of be a random event. And all you 1176 00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,239 Speaker 3: can do. You can't make someone stay with you, and 1177 00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,040 Speaker 3: you can't make something work. All you can actually do 1178 00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,560 Speaker 3: is track whether you're getting closer or moving further apart. 1179 00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,040 Speaker 3: That's actually all you can do is track and monitor, 1180 00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:01,880 Speaker 3: because like I said, so much is changing all the time, 1181 00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,480 Speaker 3: and so all you can do is track change. You 1182 00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:08,000 Speaker 3: can't force a result or a direction. You can only 1183 00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:10,439 Speaker 3: track change and try and move closer together and move apart. 1184 00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:12,520 Speaker 3: And it's what you said, like I think, when we 1185 00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:14,359 Speaker 3: think about the word balance, if you think about it, 1186 00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:16,640 Speaker 3: we all have a finite number of hours, we have 1187 00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:19,680 Speaker 3: a finite number of resources, and we have a finite 1188 00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,520 Speaker 3: number of amount of energy. So if you had one 1189 00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,799 Speaker 3: hundred percent and you said you've got yourself, you've got 1190 00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,480 Speaker 3: your partner, you got your work, you've got your kids, 1191 00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,280 Speaker 3: and then you've got your family, and you put twenty 1192 00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:33,080 Speaker 3: percent into each of those, Now you're going to get 1193 00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,759 Speaker 3: a twenty percent result on each of those. That's a 1194 00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:37,839 Speaker 3: balance life if we look at it in that way. 1195 00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:42,080 Speaker 3: So if it doesn't work, or it may work for someone, 1196 00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,680 Speaker 3: but the idea then being okay, well, now you got 1197 00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,680 Speaker 3: like a eighty percent return on your career, which means 1198 00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,120 Speaker 3: eighty percent of your energy was going into the work part, 1199 00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,000 Speaker 3: which means then five percent was going to all the others. 1200 00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,640 Speaker 1: You've got a huge as Yeah that was me in 1201 00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:56,399 Speaker 1: the driver error. 1202 00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,000 Speaker 3: Yeah right, And so when we look at that, we 1203 00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:03,040 Speaker 3: just go, well, how can any human ever achieve perfection? 1204 00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,880 Speaker 3: Any human, including me, including everyone. We're so everyone is 1205 00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:12,280 Speaker 3: so limited that our ability to make everything and everyone 1206 00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:19,160 Speaker 3: happy and successful is mathematically impossible. So if it's mathematically impossible, 1207 00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,479 Speaker 3: let's stop pretending that we're able to nail every part 1208 00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,799 Speaker 3: of every life. And let's be honest and say I'm 1209 00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:29,200 Speaker 3: focusing on this in this era or this phase, or 1210 00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:32,560 Speaker 3: this month or this year. That naturally means I can't 1211 00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:37,600 Speaker 3: focus on these three areas. And I think people who 1212 00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,600 Speaker 3: stay together or adapt or whatever in a healthy way 1213 00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:44,000 Speaker 3: are people who found a way of saying, I understand 1214 00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,520 Speaker 3: what you're focusing on, and I get that and I 1215 00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:49,440 Speaker 3: respect it. But guess what, when you're back and you 1216 00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,000 Speaker 3: have time, I may be focusing on something else. And 1217 00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,560 Speaker 3: so I think anyone who's navigating their relationship in a 1218 00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:57,239 Speaker 3: healthier way, there's no better or worse, but in a 1219 00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,920 Speaker 3: way that we would consider healthier. It's only because two 1220 00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:03,080 Speaker 3: people are communicating, as you said, enough when they're just 1221 00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:07,160 Speaker 3: having conversations. It doesn't mean there's a perfect standard, or 1222 00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,440 Speaker 3: there's complete intimacy at all times, or they're having the 1223 00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:13,920 Speaker 3: best you know, sexual relationships at all times while everything 1224 00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,520 Speaker 3: else is going on like just mathematically impossible. 1225 00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:19,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's so interesting too, because I think you 1226 00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:24,360 Speaker 1: don't want your avoiding dealing with something that you know 1227 00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:27,200 Speaker 1: is there. It's like you said, you're not always going 1228 00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,800 Speaker 1: to be on the same page. You're not going to 1229 00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,000 Speaker 1: you're going to grow differently and whatever, and it's like, 1230 00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:34,640 Speaker 1: you know, in our case, it was like we weren't 1231 00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:37,600 Speaker 1: you have to again. I don't mean to be like 1232 00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:39,600 Speaker 1: a broken record, but going back to like you're in 1233 00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,480 Speaker 1: that inner voice of like you know, for me, I 1234 00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:45,839 Speaker 1: knew there were things that weren't right. And I think now, 1235 00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:47,880 Speaker 1: and you know, I work with therapists and coach and 1236 00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,479 Speaker 1: I have lots of people, you know, because I love 1237 00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:53,399 Speaker 1: getting is I love getting as much? I mean now, 1238 00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:55,680 Speaker 1: I'm like, I love the feedback. Give me all the feedback, 1239 00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:57,759 Speaker 1: Like I really want to hear as many perspectives as 1240 00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,600 Speaker 1: I can and from people that like I really trust 1241 00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:02,120 Speaker 1: and admire. And you know, one of the things that 1242 00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:04,960 Speaker 1: I was talking to my coach about recently was like, 1243 00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:07,680 Speaker 1: because I've I've been trying to like put a bow 1244 00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,080 Speaker 1: on this to like make myself feel better about it 1245 00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,960 Speaker 1: not working, and I've come to realize like if well, 1246 00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,759 Speaker 1: I'm like, if we had had the conversation that we 1247 00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:18,520 Speaker 1: weren't having, you know, the right I mean, you're shaking 1248 00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:20,319 Speaker 1: your head because you know what I'm gonna say, What 1249 00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,000 Speaker 1: if we had talked about the thing, maybe it would 1250 00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,120 Speaker 1: have worked. Maybe it wouldn't have worked, Like obviously nobody 1251 00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,600 Speaker 1: nobody knows, you know, And and and he and I 1252 00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:31,200 Speaker 1: had that conversation in the aftermath of all of this, 1253 00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:33,640 Speaker 1: like had we called out, you know, one of the 1254 00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:35,520 Speaker 1: big things that wasn't working for us early on that 1255 00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:37,759 Speaker 1: we both did not want to call out because it 1256 00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:42,000 Speaker 1: would have potentially probably meant that the end of the relationship, 1257 00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:44,480 Speaker 1: and we didn't want that. You know. We were very 1258 00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:47,160 Speaker 1: like wrapped up in like the excitement and the newness 1259 00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:49,440 Speaker 1: and the lust and the chemistry and the passion and 1260 00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:51,600 Speaker 1: all the things that happened when you're brain. I mean, 1261 00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:53,239 Speaker 1: I'm sure, I'm sure there's some science on like what 1262 00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:58,040 Speaker 1: happens to her, Yeah, but you know, and so we weren't. 1263 00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:00,839 Speaker 1: We didn't have those conversations. And perhaps had we had it, 1264 00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:03,320 Speaker 1: maybe it would have shifted and we could have figured 1265 00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:05,520 Speaker 1: something out that would have changed the directory of our 1266 00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:07,840 Speaker 1: relationship and it maybe it had worked, and maybe it 1267 00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:08,320 Speaker 1: wouldn't have. 1268 00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:09,600 Speaker 2: But we didn't even. 1269 00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:13,120 Speaker 1: Have the conversation, you know. And that's the thing. It's like, 1270 00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,080 Speaker 1: you have to have those honest conversations in work, in business, 1271 00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:19,400 Speaker 1: you know, in business, in your personal life, and if 1272 00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:22,400 Speaker 1: you're avoiding them, it's going to come back around. 1273 00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:24,000 Speaker 2: Like you can be sure of that, you know. 1274 00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:27,759 Speaker 3: I always say there are like there are four check 1275 00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:30,680 Speaker 3: ins that I do with my wife regularly, and so 1276 00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:33,960 Speaker 3: every day I try and ask a simple one what 1277 00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,280 Speaker 3: was your highlight of the day, or what was exciting today, 1278 00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:38,680 Speaker 3: which is an easy one. Anyone can ask that very 1279 00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:43,960 Speaker 3: simple Every week or month, I ask, you, know, is 1280 00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:45,719 Speaker 3: there something coming up that I can help you with? 1281 00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,279 Speaker 3: Like is there something you're struggling with or something that's 1282 00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:49,960 Speaker 3: on your mind that I need to be aware of 1283 00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:55,000 Speaker 3: or conscious of? Every quarter I ask is this relationship 1284 00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:58,920 Speaker 3: going in the direction you want? Or is it going 1285 00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:01,120 Speaker 3: in the direction? Ife one? If it isn't, what are 1286 00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:03,920 Speaker 3: we both willing to do to put it in the 1287 00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:06,719 Speaker 3: right direction? Are you willing to do something? And am I? 1288 00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:09,839 Speaker 3: And then every year a simple one of like, well, 1289 00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:11,920 Speaker 3: what's your goal this year? Or what are you pursuing 1290 00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:15,680 Speaker 3: this year? And those four questions or checkings don't save 1291 00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:18,160 Speaker 3: a relationship. They do what I was saying earlier is 1292 00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:21,440 Speaker 3: they help you track whether you're on the same page 1293 00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,120 Speaker 3: or you're completely on another page, and if you're even 1294 00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:25,960 Speaker 3: aware and conscious. And the reason you have to do 1295 00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,640 Speaker 3: that is those should be four checkings you do with yourself. 1296 00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:31,160 Speaker 3: Coming back to your point, like checking in with every 1297 00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:33,840 Speaker 3: day and going myself, what's my highlight today? Checking with 1298 00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:37,000 Speaker 3: myself every week or every month and going, hey, what 1299 00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:38,560 Speaker 3: do I need help with this month? Who have I 1300 00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:41,040 Speaker 3: asked for that. Every quarter is my life going in 1301 00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:43,160 Speaker 3: the direction that I wanted to go in? And every 1302 00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:45,480 Speaker 3: year what am I pursuing? Like If I'm not checking 1303 00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:47,719 Speaker 3: in that with myself and I'm not checking in that 1304 00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:50,560 Speaker 3: with my wife, then how can I know myself? And 1305 00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:53,120 Speaker 3: how can I know this human? And I think the 1306 00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:56,279 Speaker 3: assumption that I know someone like i've you know, me 1307 00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:58,040 Speaker 3: and my wife have only been together for ten years, 1308 00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:03,120 Speaker 3: But it's all I know is that she's constantly evolving, 1309 00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:07,560 Speaker 3: growing human. Sure, just because she's over thirty doesn't mean 1310 00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:11,040 Speaker 3: that she's fully formed and done. God no, and neither 1311 00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:13,360 Speaker 3: am I. And just like your children are growing up, 1312 00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,920 Speaker 3: your son's are changing and growing, I think we assume 1313 00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:18,400 Speaker 3: that kids grow and adults stay the same. Yeah, And 1314 00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,600 Speaker 3: it's like, well, wait a minute, that's so untrue. 1315 00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:22,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I. 1316 00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,480 Speaker 3: Think that's what I'm always trying to stop my mind 1317 00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:27,720 Speaker 3: from normalizing that. Oh I know her now, Oh I 1318 00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:29,280 Speaker 3: know how she's going to react. 1319 00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:31,760 Speaker 1: Isn't it. It's such a like that fixed mindset. And 1320 00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:33,880 Speaker 1: I'm so guilty of that because I'm such a like 1321 00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:36,800 Speaker 1: I want everything wrapped up in a pretty bow. I'm like, 1322 00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,640 Speaker 1: I like things like really neat and clean and tidy, 1323 00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,560 Speaker 1: like physically you know that. I'm like, I just want 1324 00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:46,320 Speaker 1: to know what's happening, and like, you know, accepting uncertainty 1325 00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,680 Speaker 1: and like life is completely uncertain and if you can 1326 00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:54,040 Speaker 1: surrender to that, like but it's just it's hard. 1327 00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:55,920 Speaker 2: It is really hard to. 1328 00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:57,520 Speaker 1: Be like, Okay, I'm gonna like go with the flow. 1329 00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:01,520 Speaker 1: And I've read that who is it? Firstly's daughter wrote 1330 00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:04,440 Speaker 1: a book called Be Like Water, you know, And I 1331 00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:07,200 Speaker 1: was like, and I love when I remember it because 1332 00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:09,360 Speaker 1: I feel like I need like posters all over my 1333 00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:10,919 Speaker 1: house of like all the thing that you just said 1334 00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:13,320 Speaker 1: and all these things you're like, oh, yeah, you can't 1335 00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:15,360 Speaker 1: fight the current, Like you can't, you know, you can't 1336 00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,840 Speaker 1: fight it. And it's like if you can surrender to it, 1337 00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:20,320 Speaker 1: and like, you know, and that the fact that we 1338 00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,880 Speaker 1: are always changing and growing. And I love that you 1339 00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:25,040 Speaker 1: said about tracking it and and I think there was 1340 00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:27,160 Speaker 1: a phase in our relationship when we were doing more 1341 00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:28,880 Speaker 1: of like check ins and we probably had listened to 1342 00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:30,320 Speaker 1: something like this and we're like, oh, we should be 1343 00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:32,640 Speaker 1: checking in more. And then eventually we stopped doing this 1344 00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:36,080 Speaker 1: and you're like, oh man, we lost we lost our 1345 00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:38,440 Speaker 1: way you know, and it's just so easy to do that, 1346 00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:41,480 Speaker 1: and you know it and it really does like straddle 1347 00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:44,120 Speaker 1: defence on business and personal because I did it all 1348 00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:46,640 Speaker 1: the time in the dry bar era when I would like, 1349 00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:49,280 Speaker 1: you know, stop paying attention to what was going on 1350 00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:52,960 Speaker 1: people around me and stopped having you know, those conversations 1351 00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:54,640 Speaker 1: like I really needed to be having, and just like 1352 00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:57,280 Speaker 1: would get all like sulky, and you know, like why 1353 00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,120 Speaker 1: wouldn't Why wasn't I having those conversations? I was, I 1354 00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:01,320 Speaker 1: was causing my own suffering, you know. And it's like 1355 00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:03,840 Speaker 1: we just as humans do that, which I you know, 1356 00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:07,640 Speaker 1: which I think is like the self awareness piece. It's 1357 00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:11,720 Speaker 1: like the things that we use to nurture ourselves, like 1358 00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,280 Speaker 1: what we're listening to, what we're watching, what we're reading, 1359 00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:17,040 Speaker 1: you know, if you kind of sometimes I'm like, especially 1360 00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:19,680 Speaker 1: in the last few months, having gone through going through 1361 00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:22,160 Speaker 1: my divorce and being so sad, and I'm like ingesting 1362 00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:25,560 Speaker 1: so many books and so many things, and I'm like, Okay, 1363 00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:29,480 Speaker 1: I've read enough, I'm done. I'm good. But then I'm like, no, 1364 00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:31,919 Speaker 1: I'm not. I got to keep I mean, I got 1365 00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:33,400 Speaker 1: to do at least a couple of things a day. 1366 00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:35,800 Speaker 1: That like keep me on that spiritual path, you know, 1367 00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:37,600 Speaker 1: And it's like, what's the word I'm looking for. I 1368 00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:40,400 Speaker 1: don't want to say it's like a job or responsibility habit, 1369 00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:44,720 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, It's like it's so important. It's so 1370 00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:47,480 Speaker 1: easy to lose track of that, especially when like something 1371 00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:49,360 Speaker 1: you get really excited or you meet somebody new and 1372 00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:51,720 Speaker 1: you're like, which is exactly what I do. I'm like, oh, 1373 00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:53,320 Speaker 1: I'm so happy now. I'm like, I got it. I 1374 00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:54,720 Speaker 1: don't get I only to do with any of that 1375 00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:58,640 Speaker 1: stuff anymore, Like, you know, yeah, I remember and ruled in. 1376 00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:01,400 Speaker 3: I want to thank you for being like honest about 1377 01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:03,480 Speaker 3: it and so real and being so messy about it, 1378 01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:06,160 Speaker 3: because I think that's all of us, right, Like that's 1379 01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:08,160 Speaker 3: what we're all looking for, and we're all looking to 1380 01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:11,320 Speaker 3: have a perfect start and a perfect end, and we're 1381 01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:13,680 Speaker 3: all looking to have like the perfect person and the 1382 01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:17,800 Speaker 3: perfect relationship with ourselves, and none of that exists. Talk 1383 01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:19,960 Speaker 3: me through this, because I have so many friends who, 1384 01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:24,640 Speaker 3: like you, would feel shame and guilt for getting divorced 1385 01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:27,200 Speaker 3: and so they never will. Or I have a couple 1386 01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:29,000 Speaker 3: of friends that have kind of had the courage to 1387 01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:32,400 Speaker 3: get to the other side, but they now experience the 1388 01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:35,640 Speaker 3: judgment or they feel the shame that comes from other 1389 01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:39,479 Speaker 3: people's projection of it. Yeah, what is the hardest thing 1390 01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:43,000 Speaker 3: about getting divorced? Like, what's the toughest part about it? 1391 01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:44,480 Speaker 2: I've been on both sides of it. 1392 01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:48,040 Speaker 1: Now, you know, we're the first of wars after sixteen years, 1393 01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:52,200 Speaker 1: you know, feeling like I did, the love that I wanted, 1394 01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:55,040 Speaker 1: an intimacy that I wanted wasn't there. So I was like, 1395 01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,560 Speaker 1: it was funny because I when I first left the marriage, 1396 01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:01,600 Speaker 1: I was like, you know, like rearing to go, and 1397 01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:03,480 Speaker 1: I was like dating really quickly and all of that. 1398 01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:06,439 Speaker 1: And then very quickly the thing happened with my son, 1399 01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:08,840 Speaker 1: and then I realized that, like dating wasn't so easy, 1400 01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:10,919 Speaker 1: and now I'm a single mom. And at the time, 1401 01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:12,600 Speaker 1: my ex didn't really want to be talking to me, 1402 01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:15,120 Speaker 1: and so I was like my world spun out of 1403 01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:17,240 Speaker 1: control and I fell into a bit of a depression. 1404 01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:20,360 Speaker 1: And I remember people telling me that like, even though 1405 01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:22,760 Speaker 1: you're not in love with your ex husband anymore, he 1406 01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:26,120 Speaker 1: still held like a space and energy that is no 1407 01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:29,080 Speaker 1: longer there, and it's like a death And I for 1408 01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:30,400 Speaker 1: months and months and months. 1409 01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:31,640 Speaker 2: I refused to believe that. 1410 01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:33,680 Speaker 1: I was like, it's not a death. Nobody died, like 1411 01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:36,200 Speaker 1: I took it very literally, and I was like he's alive. 1412 01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:40,680 Speaker 1: Like I would not allow my brain to like understand that, 1413 01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:42,720 Speaker 1: you know, until I finally did. And it's like, you know, 1414 01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:45,000 Speaker 1: when you it's like when the student's ready, the teacher 1415 01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:47,440 Speaker 1: appears mentality. And I was like, I'm sure a lot 1416 01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:49,320 Speaker 1: of people said it to me, but it was like 1417 01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:52,000 Speaker 1: I was on some show with this guy who wrote 1418 01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:54,240 Speaker 1: a book called Energy Speaks. Don't if you've ever heard 1419 01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:56,840 Speaker 1: of it, and he was talking about energy and whatever. 1420 01:01:56,880 --> 01:01:59,000 Speaker 1: And after the show, I pulled him aside and I 1421 01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:00,920 Speaker 1: like very quickly told him what was going on. And 1422 01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:02,840 Speaker 1: I was and how like I was, you know, coping 1423 01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:04,600 Speaker 1: with my divorce and I was in this depression. And 1424 01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:07,360 Speaker 1: he was like, listen, your husband, even though you don't 1425 01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:08,680 Speaker 1: love like love him like that and want to be 1426 01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:11,360 Speaker 1: with him, he still held an energy that's gone and 1427 01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:13,760 Speaker 1: that is a very big hole, like black hole for 1428 01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:15,880 Speaker 1: you to fill in your life. And it's just gonna, 1429 01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:18,120 Speaker 1: you know, take some time, which isn't rocket science. And 1430 01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:19,600 Speaker 1: I'm sure other people said it to me, but at 1431 01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:22,560 Speaker 1: that moment I was like, oh my god, HiT's right. 1432 01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:29,680 Speaker 1: And so that change of life of like your whole 1433 01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:32,760 Speaker 1: life being one way and then it becoming another way. 1434 01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:35,440 Speaker 1: And in my case, like my son going through rehab 1435 01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:38,520 Speaker 1: and that like very hard time. So it was all 1436 01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:41,040 Speaker 1: rolled into like just being hard and I was really 1437 01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:45,400 Speaker 1: sad and I and I was really struggling and you know, 1438 01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:47,439 Speaker 1: and then the identity stuff started to kind of creep 1439 01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:51,880 Speaker 1: into and so that was that was hard. I think 1440 01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:54,440 Speaker 1: from like more of an identity like a personal identity 1441 01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:57,120 Speaker 1: standpoint was hard. And like a rebuilding my life after 1442 01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:00,720 Speaker 1: so long, this divorce was was quite different. It felt 1443 01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:03,400 Speaker 1: just much more like heartbreak. Like I was heartbroken, like 1444 01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:07,040 Speaker 1: just heartbroken, and I'd never experienced that kind of heartbreak. 1445 01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:12,640 Speaker 1: I recognize now truly that it's it's for the best, 1446 01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:16,160 Speaker 1: and I think for both of us, for all of us, 1447 01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:19,600 Speaker 1: it's for the best, but it just hurts so bad 1448 01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:25,000 Speaker 1: that like to experience heartbreak like that where you're like, oh, 1449 01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:27,840 Speaker 1: someone just put it really well. That like trauma is 1450 01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:31,440 Speaker 1: the intersection of unexpected and overwhelm And I think that's 1451 01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:35,280 Speaker 1: such a simple way to understand trauma. It's like this 1452 01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:38,280 Speaker 1: thing you didn't see coming really and then the overwhelm 1453 01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:39,800 Speaker 1: of it, like the boom, you. 1454 01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:41,800 Speaker 2: Know, and that's kind of what it was for me. 1455 01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:44,440 Speaker 1: I was like, I may never recover from this, Like 1456 01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:46,560 Speaker 1: that's how like devastating it was. And I think, you know, 1457 01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:48,160 Speaker 1: because I think I talked to you right around the 1458 01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:52,520 Speaker 1: time it was happening, and I was so sad. It's 1459 01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:55,760 Speaker 1: like I'm never gonna be okay, you know, and I'm 1460 01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:58,640 Speaker 1: you know, it's and I'm okay, you know, and i've 1461 01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:02,600 Speaker 1: and i've when the fog starts clear, because it's like 1462 01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:04,520 Speaker 1: it's real muddy when you're in it, and you know, 1463 01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:07,560 Speaker 1: I mean quite literally, when you're in fog, you can't see. 1464 01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:11,680 Speaker 1: And it's the perfect analogy to me, is like I 1465 01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:14,400 Speaker 1: was in so much fog around it and like my 1466 01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:17,320 Speaker 1: ego is all like bent out of shape. And I was, 1467 01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:19,560 Speaker 1: you know, and I was worried, like my kids were 1468 01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:21,600 Speaker 1: going to be mad at me, and I was worried 1469 01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:24,120 Speaker 1: what the world was going to think and all this stuff. 1470 01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:27,280 Speaker 1: And then I was like, now as the clouds and 1471 01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:30,080 Speaker 1: the fog started to clear, I'm like, oh no, this 1472 01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,600 Speaker 1: was not ultimately the right thing, you know, And maybe 1473 01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:35,800 Speaker 1: in some universe like had we have these conversations, we've 1474 01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:37,280 Speaker 1: done this thing, da da, maybe it. 1475 01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:39,439 Speaker 2: Would have been right, but it just wasn't. 1476 01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:41,360 Speaker 1: And this was the way it all went down, and 1477 01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:45,120 Speaker 1: I realized that, like, oh this there's a lot of 1478 01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:47,160 Speaker 1: lessons here, and there's a lot of medicine, and I've 1479 01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:50,479 Speaker 1: learned so much and I'm so grateful for it now, 1480 01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:53,080 Speaker 1: you know, like I'm still coming out of the anger 1481 01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:57,120 Speaker 1: of it a little bit, but I am ultimately just 1482 01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,480 Speaker 1: really grateful for all the lessons that I've learned. And 1483 01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:02,160 Speaker 1: I think I at this earlier I like who I 1484 01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:06,720 Speaker 1: am on almost every level now more than I did then. 1485 01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:09,160 Speaker 1: I had. It was a lot of tough lessons I 1486 01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:11,720 Speaker 1: had to learn, and I was looking at myself in 1487 01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:14,240 Speaker 1: this lens that I had not looked at myself through 1488 01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:19,200 Speaker 1: of like why he made that decision and why he 1489 01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:22,880 Speaker 1: didn't want the marriage anymore, which is just I mean, 1490 01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:24,880 Speaker 1: you can imagine, I mean, you put yourself in those 1491 01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:27,080 Speaker 1: in that for a second. If your wife was like 1492 01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:30,120 Speaker 1: I want to divorce right now, you you would just 1493 01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:33,520 Speaker 1: be like it's devastating if you're you know, in love 1494 01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:36,440 Speaker 1: with somebody, but then when and so I was like 1495 01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:38,960 Speaker 1: trying I've tried to now put myself in the very 1496 01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:41,560 Speaker 1: painful place of like why why didn't he want to 1497 01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:45,040 Speaker 1: be with me? And sure like I not not to 1498 01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:46,760 Speaker 1: go down the rabbit hole of like I'm a terrible 1499 01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:48,960 Speaker 1: person and I'm not worthy. It's not that. It's more 1500 01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:53,040 Speaker 1: of like, let me see what what the things were 1501 01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:55,600 Speaker 1: that I didn't like about myself that I can now 1502 01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:58,200 Speaker 1: see through his eyes, And this is not a conversation 1503 01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:00,960 Speaker 1: with him. This is a conversation with me and how 1504 01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:03,440 Speaker 1: I perceived a lot of things and the way I 1505 01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:05,800 Speaker 1: acted and the way I showed up a lot that 1506 01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:07,920 Speaker 1: I don't like. You know that I'm like, oh, I 1507 01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:10,720 Speaker 1: don't ever want to show up like that again. And 1508 01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:12,960 Speaker 1: what a gift and what a lesson to like be 1509 01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:16,800 Speaker 1: this better version of myself now. So to answer your question, 1510 01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:18,640 Speaker 1: those were like the hardest things of it, but it 1511 01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:21,800 Speaker 1: is I'm literally living proof that you can you will 1512 01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:23,800 Speaker 1: get through it. And everybody kept saying that to me, 1513 01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:26,680 Speaker 1: and I would grasp onto that, like when people would 1514 01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:28,680 Speaker 1: say it's you're going to be okay, it's gonna I 1515 01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:30,720 Speaker 1: promise you're going to be okay, and I would like 1516 01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:34,040 Speaker 1: hold on to that, like thank you. I needed other 1517 01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:36,360 Speaker 1: people to say it to me because I couldn't find 1518 01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:37,120 Speaker 1: it in myself. 1519 01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:38,920 Speaker 2: I could, I didn't believe it. 1520 01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:41,080 Speaker 1: But if enough people said it to me, like I 1521 01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:43,560 Speaker 1: promise you, and so many people said that to me, 1522 01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:45,840 Speaker 1: I promise you, You're going to be okay. It's you know, 1523 01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:48,040 Speaker 1: it's it's a beautiful thing to have, like a community 1524 01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:49,840 Speaker 1: of people around you that will tell you that and 1525 01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:53,000 Speaker 1: that you and I'm like, are you sure? Like do 1526 01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:55,720 Speaker 1: you know? And they're like, I know, you know, And 1527 01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:57,440 Speaker 1: it's lofty, but it's true, you. 1528 01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:00,520 Speaker 3: Know, So you know. What I find so hope giving 1529 01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:06,520 Speaker 3: about your choices is that you turned towards people, things 1530 01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:09,120 Speaker 3: ideas that would help and support you. And I think 1531 01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:12,480 Speaker 3: that that's the hard part, Like it's so easy and 1532 01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:15,720 Speaker 3: it's natural and should not be judged at all, but 1533 01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:18,240 Speaker 3: it's so easy for you to go off the reils 1534 01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:21,200 Speaker 3: and go in different directions. And the fact that you 1535 01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:24,720 Speaker 3: had the inner wisdom and the intuition to say, actually, 1536 01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:27,520 Speaker 3: I'm going to turn towards advice and therapy and coaching 1537 01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:31,120 Speaker 3: and insight and learning and reading and hearing this message 1538 01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:34,240 Speaker 3: from a supportive community, Like that's what I want people 1539 01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:35,720 Speaker 3: to take away because I want you to hear that 1540 01:07:35,720 --> 01:07:37,520 Speaker 3: that that's the choice we have to try and make. 1541 01:07:37,640 --> 01:07:41,600 Speaker 3: And something you said, this concept you're talking about, the intersection. 1542 01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:44,120 Speaker 3: Something sparked for me as you said that, and I 1543 01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:45,880 Speaker 3: was going to complete your sentence, but I didn't want 1544 01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:48,520 Speaker 3: to because you know, I didn't know what you were 1545 01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:50,680 Speaker 3: going to say, and that's why I waited, because I 1546 01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:53,440 Speaker 3: didn't know what you'd read or heard. But I was 1547 01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:55,720 Speaker 3: thinking about it that when I heard the word. When 1548 01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:58,480 Speaker 3: you think about trauma or even like a trigger that 1549 01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:03,640 Speaker 3: eventually leads to trauma, it's actually the intersection between an 1550 01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:09,280 Speaker 3: unexpected event but a familiar feeling. And so there's what 1551 01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:11,080 Speaker 3: you were talking about earlier as well, like how you 1552 01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:14,280 Speaker 3: repeat your parents' marriage, like the idea that it's an 1553 01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:16,559 Speaker 3: unexpected because you didn't think you would ever do that, 1554 01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:18,920 Speaker 3: but then it's a really familiar feeling and you're like, oh, 1555 01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:21,519 Speaker 3: I feel that, or like I'm going through a divorce. 1556 01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:23,639 Speaker 3: Someone's asking me for a divorce. It's an unexpected event, 1557 01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:26,519 Speaker 3: but it's a familiar feeling of I don't like myself already, 1558 01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:29,679 Speaker 3: and this is a reminder of something I know deep down, 1559 01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:35,400 Speaker 3: and it's that familiarity with that unexpectedness that completely converges 1560 01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:38,720 Speaker 3: to create such disharmony and misalignment in. 1561 01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:43,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it really does because you're like, and it's amazing 1562 01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:45,040 Speaker 1: when you have like a great support system around you 1563 01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:47,040 Speaker 1: telling me that, no, you're a good person. It's like, 1564 01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:51,000 Speaker 1: you know, my best friend and she would tell me, 1565 01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:55,040 Speaker 1: like we would, yes, you have culpability here, you know, 1566 01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:57,240 Speaker 1: and we would. She knew it my relationship very well 1567 01:08:57,240 --> 01:08:58,280 Speaker 1: because she's my best friend. 1568 01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:01,160 Speaker 2: But no, you're not a bad person. 1569 01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:01,880 Speaker 3: You know. 1570 01:09:01,960 --> 01:09:04,439 Speaker 1: There are things that you had to learn about yourself 1571 01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:06,559 Speaker 1: and there are things that you know you want to change, 1572 01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:08,960 Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean you're a bad person. And it's 1573 01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:12,200 Speaker 1: hard to live in that duality of like beating yourself 1574 01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:14,800 Speaker 1: up in the shame that we can put on ourselves 1575 01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:18,839 Speaker 1: because this marriage failed. And I'm like because in the beginning, 1576 01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:21,280 Speaker 1: I was like, this marriage failed. You know, I'm a 1577 01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:23,759 Speaker 1: terrible person. No one's ever gonna love me again any 1578 01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:25,680 Speaker 1: any man I'm going to date and be like, oh, 1579 01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:29,000 Speaker 1: you're a marriage twice sorry se yah, you know, which 1580 01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:32,360 Speaker 1: isn't true, you know, but it's it is the things 1581 01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:34,519 Speaker 1: that you know we do, which you know I have 1582 01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:36,960 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time. A lot of the stuff 1583 01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,880 Speaker 1: that I read is on like, you know, mindset and 1584 01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:42,439 Speaker 1: the brain and how powerful the brain is and how 1585 01:09:42,479 --> 01:09:46,760 Speaker 1: we can change our thoughts and that stuff's also fascinating 1586 01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:49,960 Speaker 1: to me, you know, like that you can we have control. 1587 01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:54,160 Speaker 1: I didn't believe that until now, like until very recently. 1588 01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:56,360 Speaker 1: I was like, it is what it is, you know. 1589 01:09:56,560 --> 01:09:59,200 Speaker 1: But now I'm like, oh, we can change our thoughts 1590 01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:02,519 Speaker 1: and we can you know, decide, and it's like there's 1591 01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:04,240 Speaker 1: a to me, there's like a well, you still got 1592 01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:07,439 Speaker 1: to grieve the thing, but I can also because I 1593 01:10:07,479 --> 01:10:09,280 Speaker 1: was like, you know, I was I started listening to 1594 01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:10,120 Speaker 1: Joe Despenza. 1595 01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:12,400 Speaker 3: Yeah of course, yeah, he's been on the show four times. 1596 01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:14,320 Speaker 1: Oh wait, I think I might have discovered him through 1597 01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:18,120 Speaker 1: your show. Actually I love that guy and I love 1598 01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:20,640 Speaker 1: what he says, you know, and I but I had 1599 01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:22,320 Speaker 1: some people be like, yeah, his stuff is great, but 1600 01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:24,800 Speaker 1: like you still have to grieve the stuff, because I 1601 01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:27,599 Speaker 1: was like, I'm just gonna believe this, you know, And 1602 01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:29,640 Speaker 1: it's like, but there's still the grief over there. And 1603 01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:32,679 Speaker 1: I think that's another challenging part of like anything like dying, 1604 01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:35,880 Speaker 1: is that the grief your body physically needs to go 1605 01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:39,559 Speaker 1: through if you change your mindset too fast, and like 1606 01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:42,320 Speaker 1: you know, so it's kind of an interesting I think 1607 01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:45,320 Speaker 1: it's a little of both. I'm really fascinated by the 1608 01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:47,080 Speaker 1: whole thing the brain can do. 1609 01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:49,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. When you look at grief and loss, 1610 01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:54,360 Speaker 3: it's like, there's the grief and loss of that person, right, 1611 01:10:54,479 --> 01:10:56,799 Speaker 3: and then there's the grief and loss of the person 1612 01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:01,799 Speaker 3: you were with that person, yes, And they're two different things. 1613 01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:04,920 Speaker 3: Because you were a particular type of yourself, there was 1614 01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:08,440 Speaker 3: a part of yourself that was connected to that individual. 1615 01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:11,080 Speaker 3: And now not only has that person gone, that part 1616 01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:14,320 Speaker 3: that you'd created with them has also gone and it's 1617 01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:19,679 Speaker 3: no longer existent. And so there's some identity is such 1618 01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:23,439 Speaker 3: a fascinating subject in and of itself, and it's like 1619 01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:26,360 Speaker 3: you weren't complete in the first place either, and so 1620 01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:30,040 Speaker 3: there's just so many layers to it that are so challenging. 1621 01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:32,559 Speaker 3: And all of these things that you're talking about, whether 1622 01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:35,200 Speaker 3: it's your work, your marriage, your kids, they put a 1623 01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:38,559 Speaker 3: spotlight onto all of this and all the gaps. What 1624 01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:42,040 Speaker 3: would you say was the most important lesson you took 1625 01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:45,320 Speaker 3: away from your first relationship and then your second relationship 1626 01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:47,680 Speaker 3: because you've just you were talking so much about it 1627 01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:49,320 Speaker 3: was all about lessons atill and what would you say 1628 01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:50,680 Speaker 3: was the first one that you took away from the 1629 01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:53,080 Speaker 3: first and then from the second? What have you taken away? 1630 01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:56,000 Speaker 3: What's been the big lesson that stayed with you? 1631 01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:58,639 Speaker 1: You know, I think for me, and it's pretty vulnerable 1632 01:11:58,680 --> 01:12:00,080 Speaker 1: to say, but like, it was, like, oh, I I 1633 01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:02,080 Speaker 1: think I rushed into both of my marriages because I 1634 01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:04,040 Speaker 1: didn't want to be alone and I wanted to be 1635 01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:05,640 Speaker 1: in a relationship, and I just wanted to be in 1636 01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:10,000 Speaker 1: a relationship. There were right enough. I don't think anything's 1637 01:12:10,040 --> 01:12:13,280 Speaker 1: that were perfect, of course, but you know, I realized 1638 01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:15,840 Speaker 1: there were things in both of my marriages that weren't 1639 01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:18,479 Speaker 1: like exactly what I wanted them to be. And again, 1640 01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:20,439 Speaker 1: it's a hard thing to say because it's like nothing's 1641 01:12:20,439 --> 01:12:23,040 Speaker 1: ever exactly what you wanted it to be. With some 1642 01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:25,040 Speaker 1: of the things that were happening with us, I think 1643 01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:27,320 Speaker 1: I actually was pretty open and honest about them. But 1644 01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:29,400 Speaker 1: what we weren't open and honest about was like what 1645 01:12:29,479 --> 01:12:31,599 Speaker 1: I actually needed it to be. And if it wasn't 1646 01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:33,280 Speaker 1: going to be that like, then it probably wasn't going 1647 01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:36,160 Speaker 1: to work. And we both needed to come to terms 1648 01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:38,640 Speaker 1: with that. So you know, I think the lesson is 1649 01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:43,200 Speaker 1: like really level setting what you need and what that 1650 01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:45,760 Speaker 1: other person needs, not just what you need, Like sometimes 1651 01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:47,719 Speaker 1: you have to be the one that's willing to say 1652 01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:51,120 Speaker 1: like I don't think this is gonna work because blah blah. 1653 01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:54,320 Speaker 1: But like to me, I don't think I've ever been 1654 01:12:54,320 --> 01:12:56,800 Speaker 1: strong enough to be like I'm completely in love with you, 1655 01:12:57,600 --> 01:12:59,400 Speaker 1: but I don't think this relationship is going to work. 1656 01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:01,920 Speaker 1: Like who can do that? That's so hard? 1657 01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:02,840 Speaker 2: I'm sure people do. 1658 01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:06,200 Speaker 1: You know. It's like I think about it like so silly. 1659 01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:08,080 Speaker 1: I think just because I've watched so many movies in 1660 01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:09,680 Speaker 1: my life, like Legends of the Fall. Did you ever 1661 01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:10,559 Speaker 1: see Legends of the Fall? 1662 01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:10,960 Speaker 3: You know? 1663 01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:12,960 Speaker 1: I mean, it's like it just it just it came 1664 01:13:13,080 --> 01:13:14,679 Speaker 1: to me recently. I was like, you know, you watch 1665 01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:16,360 Speaker 1: one of those movies and like you want the like 1666 01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:19,400 Speaker 1: the love story to work, and then it doesn't, and 1667 01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:21,559 Speaker 1: you're like and you you walk out of that movie, 1668 01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:24,160 Speaker 1: he's like so sad, and you're like, I just wanted 1669 01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:26,519 Speaker 1: them to be together, you know. And that's how I 1670 01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:29,800 Speaker 1: feel in this second marriage, like I really wanted it 1671 01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:32,880 Speaker 1: to work, and as the viewer watching the movie, you're like, 1672 01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:35,040 Speaker 1: I know, it wasn't right and it wasn't supposed to 1673 01:13:35,080 --> 01:13:36,640 Speaker 1: be and it's like, you know, and that's how I 1674 01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:38,280 Speaker 1: felt like Legends of the Fall, you know, it's like 1675 01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:44,120 Speaker 1: I feel like, oh, yeah, like why we're they together 1676 01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:46,080 Speaker 1: at the end? You know, you're and you watch that 1677 01:13:46,160 --> 01:13:48,160 Speaker 1: movie and I've watched a couple of times, such a 1678 01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:51,120 Speaker 1: great movie, and you're like, you know, she marries another guy, 1679 01:13:51,160 --> 01:13:53,040 Speaker 1: and you're like, sorry for anybody who hasn't watched a lot 1680 01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:55,559 Speaker 1: of that, it's been a while, yeah, And it's that 1681 01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:58,080 Speaker 1: is really how it's like landed for me in this 1682 01:13:58,320 --> 01:14:01,719 Speaker 1: Like sometimes like what we want to work just doesn't, 1683 01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:04,120 Speaker 1: you know, and you have to just learn to accept it. 1684 01:14:04,160 --> 01:14:06,720 Speaker 1: And I think that's that's been the big lesson for me. 1685 01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:09,360 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, a lot of people and people 1686 01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:11,680 Speaker 1: close to me know and have said to me in 1687 01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:14,320 Speaker 1: the aftermath of this, like you've you've had things work 1688 01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:16,760 Speaker 1: out for you pretty well most of your life, you know, 1689 01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:19,040 Speaker 1: And I have, and I'm really blessed and lucky in 1690 01:14:19,080 --> 01:14:21,200 Speaker 1: that way. And this has been like one of the 1691 01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:23,680 Speaker 1: first things that like didn't work out the way I 1692 01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:27,000 Speaker 1: wanted to, and I couldn't control it, you know, no 1693 01:14:27,080 --> 01:14:30,639 Speaker 1: matter what I did, I couldn't change the outcome. And like, oof, 1694 01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:33,040 Speaker 1: that's rough, you know, and I'm sure and I know 1695 01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:34,479 Speaker 1: a lot of people have dealt with that on a 1696 01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:37,360 Speaker 1: much bigger and harder scale than me. And and so 1697 01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:40,479 Speaker 1: that was a real lesson of like surrender of like 1698 01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:43,639 Speaker 1: you just don't get control. You know. I look at 1699 01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:46,000 Speaker 1: my first marriage and think that, like we were married 1700 01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:48,280 Speaker 1: for so long, and for so long I didn't have 1701 01:14:48,320 --> 01:14:52,280 Speaker 1: that like electric chemistry love that I wanted. But yet 1702 01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:53,920 Speaker 1: I had these two amazing kids, and I built this 1703 01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:55,760 Speaker 1: great business, and so like that was enough for me. 1704 01:14:56,320 --> 01:14:59,920 Speaker 1: You know, in this stage of my life, I feel 1705 01:14:59,920 --> 01:15:02,439 Speaker 1: like I actually want more of it all now, you 1706 01:15:02,439 --> 01:15:04,080 Speaker 1: know where I was always like, well I have this, 1707 01:15:04,240 --> 01:15:05,880 Speaker 1: I don't have that, but I have this. And now 1708 01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:08,120 Speaker 1: I'm like, I want to do something that I really 1709 01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:10,720 Speaker 1: love and feel passionate about for myself and I want 1710 01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:12,920 Speaker 1: to have a great love too, And now I'm trying 1711 01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:14,920 Speaker 1: to find both. 1712 01:15:15,160 --> 01:15:19,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And you know, Allie, like what I 1713 01:15:19,120 --> 01:15:22,240 Speaker 3: really appreciate about you, honestly, this conversation the book is 1714 01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:24,160 Speaker 3: like you're the real deal. Like a lot of people 1715 01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:27,559 Speaker 3: say they want to share their messy truth and they 1716 01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:31,759 Speaker 3: want to tell what's really going on. And I think 1717 01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:36,519 Speaker 3: it's almost like we're still trying to do it because 1718 01:15:36,520 --> 01:15:39,479 Speaker 3: it sounds and looks vulnerable, but it isn't and that's 1719 01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:44,080 Speaker 3: not you know, And I think that hearing from you today, 1720 01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:47,280 Speaker 3: all I've heard is the messy truth and it's not been. 1721 01:15:47,640 --> 01:15:49,600 Speaker 3: I can't think of anyone who's listening to this that 1722 01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:56,120 Speaker 3: isn't going to feel comforted, supported, held, and feel connected 1723 01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:59,400 Speaker 3: to your journey in some way. I don't think it's 1724 01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:04,759 Speaker 3: mathemat spiritually, emotionally possible for someone to master every area 1725 01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:09,120 Speaker 3: of their life perfectly at all times. I just want 1726 01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:11,880 Speaker 3: to throw that out there because we still keep putting 1727 01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:14,639 Speaker 3: it up when we say things like power couple, when 1728 01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:18,000 Speaker 3: we say things like oh my god, the perfect match, 1729 01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:20,479 Speaker 3: when we say things like you know, we don't realize 1730 01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:24,479 Speaker 3: how many ideas we've put into the world that oh 1731 01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:27,000 Speaker 3: my god, did you know they're both billionaires now? And 1732 01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:29,519 Speaker 3: they're both and it's like, you have no idea, just 1733 01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:32,960 Speaker 3: how many ideas you're we plant seeds in people's minds 1734 01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:37,800 Speaker 3: that these headlines exist in reality and if you're someone 1735 01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:40,360 Speaker 3: who knows anyone. You know that the headline is so 1736 01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:44,320 Speaker 3: untrue about everyone. And that doesn't mean people kin't have 1737 01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:47,680 Speaker 3: healthy relationships. It doesn't mean people can't have happy relationships. 1738 01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:49,560 Speaker 3: But do people have perfect relationships? 1739 01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:49,640 Speaker 1: No? 1740 01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:52,719 Speaker 3: And do people have perfect businesses? Know? And do people 1741 01:16:52,720 --> 01:16:56,080 Speaker 3: have perfect anything? No? And so's it's a mindset that 1742 01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:58,640 Speaker 3: we've all been so conditioned to believe. It's why we 1743 01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:02,240 Speaker 3: feel sad when Ryan Gosling doesn't end up with Emma Stone, Like, 1744 01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:05,720 Speaker 3: it's because we've been taught that that is the perfect yea, 1745 01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:10,480 Speaker 3: that is the perfect ending. And there's so much wiring 1746 01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:15,240 Speaker 3: that we have to uncross, and that's the work you're doing. 1747 01:17:15,320 --> 01:17:18,160 Speaker 3: And I think that that that's what I'm so appreciative 1748 01:17:18,200 --> 01:17:21,720 Speaker 3: of watching and observing you on this journey, is you're 1749 01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:27,960 Speaker 3: so courageously and bravely doing the hard un learning. 1750 01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:30,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a reminds me of you know, I'm sure 1751 01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:34,040 Speaker 1: you're familiar with Michael Singer and you know, of course, Yeah, 1752 01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:35,760 Speaker 1: there's been a few books that I'm like, I've listened 1753 01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:37,600 Speaker 1: to on repeat. You're just like, I just got to 1754 01:17:37,680 --> 01:17:39,720 Speaker 1: keep listening to this to get like through the day. 1755 01:17:40,200 --> 01:17:42,120 Speaker 1: It didn't sink into me until I started thinking about 1756 01:17:42,120 --> 01:17:44,720 Speaker 1: the whole movie thing, which is like he was like, 1757 01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:47,599 Speaker 1: you know, if you're in heartbreak or you're in sadness, 1758 01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:51,120 Speaker 1: He's like he equated it to Again, it only connected 1759 01:17:51,160 --> 01:17:53,880 Speaker 1: for me recently, not when he said it, but this 1760 01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:57,160 Speaker 1: like idea of when you watch a movie and you 1761 01:17:57,240 --> 01:18:00,200 Speaker 1: get sad about something, it's like you ow and you 1762 01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:01,800 Speaker 1: tell all your friends about it and you talk about it. 1763 01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:04,360 Speaker 1: It's like you almost like the sadness and the emotion 1764 01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:08,000 Speaker 1: that it brings in, but it's just like when it 1765 01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:09,920 Speaker 1: happens to you, you don't like it quite as much. 1766 01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:12,160 Speaker 1: But if you can put yourself in that, like it's 1767 01:18:12,280 --> 01:18:15,040 Speaker 1: just your movie, you know, and you're just watching it 1768 01:18:15,160 --> 01:18:17,559 Speaker 1: and you're not going to feel sad forever, you know, 1769 01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:20,000 Speaker 1: it's such a good perspective of it. And it's funny 1770 01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:23,280 Speaker 1: how it's like come full circle for me of like, oh, 1771 01:18:23,320 --> 01:18:26,479 Speaker 1: this is my sad movie and it's sad and then 1772 01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:28,680 Speaker 1: it's but it's also okay, you know. 1773 01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:32,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's almost like just like a movie, when 1774 01:18:32,439 --> 01:18:34,840 Speaker 3: you walk in and watch one part of a movie, 1775 01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:37,040 Speaker 3: you don't get the full picture. Yeah, yeah, she walked 1776 01:18:37,080 --> 01:18:39,439 Speaker 3: in on a sad scene, or you walked in on 1777 01:18:39,439 --> 01:18:42,160 Speaker 3: a scene where one guy is chasing another guy and 1778 01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:43,920 Speaker 3: you think the guy being chased is the bad guy, 1779 01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:46,280 Speaker 3: but actually it's the good guy. Like, there's just so 1780 01:18:46,439 --> 01:18:49,520 Speaker 3: much right we look at people's lives and snapshot. 1781 01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:51,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fascinating. 1782 01:18:51,479 --> 01:18:54,200 Speaker 3: You can't tell who's what and who's who, and who's 1783 01:18:54,200 --> 01:18:57,479 Speaker 3: the villain and who's the hero. And yeah, becoming an 1784 01:18:57,520 --> 01:18:59,880 Speaker 3: observer in our own life is so hard to do. 1785 01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:03,479 Speaker 3: But Ali, we end every episode of On Purpose with 1786 01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:06,160 Speaker 3: the final five, and so these are your final five. 1787 01:19:06,200 --> 01:19:08,000 Speaker 3: They have to be answered in one word to one 1788 01:19:08,080 --> 01:19:11,760 Speaker 3: sentence maximum. I will ask you to go off if 1789 01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:15,680 Speaker 3: I feel like it. So Question number one, what is 1790 01:19:15,720 --> 01:19:19,920 Speaker 3: the best entrepreneurship advice you've ever heard or received? 1791 01:19:20,439 --> 01:19:23,240 Speaker 1: Progress over perfection? You know, I think that we as 1792 01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:25,320 Speaker 1: entrepreneurs we get stuck in this and I see it 1793 01:19:25,400 --> 01:19:27,320 Speaker 1: all the time of like, oh, I can't start this 1794 01:19:27,439 --> 01:19:28,880 Speaker 1: because I don't have this and I don't know this, 1795 01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:30,880 Speaker 1: and I don't have enough money on this, But like 1796 01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:34,320 Speaker 1: just start and you know you're it's it's never going 1797 01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:36,080 Speaker 1: to I mean, just we just talked about this. It's 1798 01:19:36,120 --> 01:19:38,200 Speaker 1: never going to be perfect. But just like just go. 1799 01:19:38,280 --> 01:19:40,240 Speaker 2: It'll you'll you'll get it. You'll figure it out as 1800 01:19:40,280 --> 01:19:40,479 Speaker 2: you go. 1801 01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:42,479 Speaker 3: And I think that's what people don't realize that I 1802 01:19:42,680 --> 01:19:44,960 Speaker 3: fully agree with you, and that's where the mistakes are made. 1803 01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:47,160 Speaker 3: But the problem is there's no other path. So if 1804 01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:49,479 Speaker 3: you just waited, weighted waited, you never get never make 1805 01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:51,800 Speaker 3: any mistakes, but you never get anywhere. And if you 1806 01:19:51,840 --> 01:19:54,200 Speaker 3: start and you stumble, you will make loads of mistakes. 1807 01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:56,160 Speaker 3: And that's what kind of exposes you. And there's all 1808 01:19:56,160 --> 01:19:58,519 Speaker 3: these flaws and everything, but you got somewhere and. 1809 01:19:58,479 --> 01:20:02,760 Speaker 1: It's that awkward yeah, and it's like you it's hard 1810 01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:05,320 Speaker 1: in the moment, like anything that's like worth anything is 1811 01:20:05,360 --> 01:20:07,679 Speaker 1: hard in the moment. You know, it's like the mistakes 1812 01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:10,000 Speaker 1: are hard. It sucks, but you learn from them. And 1813 01:20:10,040 --> 01:20:12,800 Speaker 1: it's very cliche, but it is so true, you know, 1814 01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:14,960 Speaker 1: And you're right if you don't get into a relationship, 1815 01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:17,360 Speaker 1: like you know, I have a friend who like is 1816 01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:19,960 Speaker 1: like hasn't gotten into a relationship because she's kind of scared. 1817 01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:22,840 Speaker 1: I'm like, you just just just go and even if 1818 01:20:22,840 --> 01:20:24,800 Speaker 1: it's not a good one, just go and like learn 1819 01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:26,639 Speaker 1: from it, you know, go on that date. 1820 01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:31,480 Speaker 3: You know, absolutely second question, what is the worst entrepreneurship 1821 01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:33,080 Speaker 3: advice you've ever heard or received. 1822 01:20:33,320 --> 01:20:36,040 Speaker 1: It's interesting that earlier you pointed out how I you know, 1823 01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:38,880 Speaker 1: I took the advice from the women that I was 1824 01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:42,880 Speaker 1: serving in my mobile business. What I didn't do was 1825 01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:45,400 Speaker 1: take the advice from like a bunch of men who 1826 01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:47,960 Speaker 1: didn't understand this business, you know. And I'm not a 1827 01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:51,280 Speaker 1: big fan of like decision by committee. Yeah, and not 1828 01:20:51,320 --> 01:20:53,240 Speaker 1: to say that I don't want like trusted people around me. 1829 01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:57,000 Speaker 1: How Yeah, it's like I don't I don't believe in this, 1830 01:20:57,240 --> 01:20:59,559 Speaker 1: Like let me just ask a million people and then 1831 01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:02,800 Speaker 1: figure it out. Like I I love using you know, 1832 01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:06,120 Speaker 1: Steve Jobs obviously a brilliant, brilliant man. It's like nobody 1833 01:21:06,240 --> 01:21:08,880 Speaker 1: knew that we didn't know we needed iPhones and maybe 1834 01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:11,000 Speaker 1: we don't need iPhones, but like we sure love them, 1835 01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:13,240 Speaker 1: but but we didn't know we needed them, No, I 1836 01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:15,320 Speaker 1: know what you say. Yeah, Like even the I feel 1837 01:21:15,320 --> 01:21:17,720 Speaker 1: like I saw a preview of the new movie coming 1838 01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:19,680 Speaker 1: out about the founders of Blackberries. 1839 01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:21,160 Speaker 3: I didn't know that. 1840 01:21:21,479 --> 01:21:22,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know I saw. 1841 01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:24,760 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I didn't dream it. And because you 1842 01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:27,400 Speaker 1: know the story, the story is really fascinating it's like, like, 1843 01:21:27,439 --> 01:21:29,759 Speaker 1: I think the premise of it is that the founder 1844 01:21:29,800 --> 01:21:32,840 Speaker 1: of BlackBerry, this is so aproposed to what we're talking about. 1845 01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:35,200 Speaker 1: It's like the people in his company came to him 1846 01:21:35,240 --> 01:21:37,880 Speaker 1: and said, like, I think there's something coming out. We 1847 01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:41,160 Speaker 1: need to change from what we're doing and like going 1848 01:21:41,200 --> 01:21:44,080 Speaker 1: to this smartphone world. And he was like, no, that's 1849 01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:46,160 Speaker 1: not gonna work. That's not gonna happen. And everybody in 1850 01:21:46,439 --> 01:21:49,240 Speaker 1: the company was like, only is gonna happen. And obviously 1851 01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:51,400 Speaker 1: we know what happened, and BlackBerry went away, which, by 1852 01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:54,200 Speaker 1: the way, my brother like had the last BlackBerry standing 1853 01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:57,080 Speaker 1: as he loved the little button. A lot of people did, 1854 01:21:57,160 --> 01:22:00,640 Speaker 1: and the BlackBerry was like revolutionary. They were amazing. They 1855 01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:03,960 Speaker 1: were the first thing, you know. But this this the story, 1856 01:22:04,160 --> 01:22:06,120 Speaker 1: as I believe it's set up in the preview, is 1857 01:22:06,160 --> 01:22:10,120 Speaker 1: like that company could have taken the similar paths as 1858 01:22:10,160 --> 01:22:13,479 Speaker 1: iPhone did, but they didn't. And again I'm loosely remembering 1859 01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:15,840 Speaker 1: the story, but I just think it's really fascinating that 1860 01:22:16,280 --> 01:22:18,479 Speaker 1: you got something. You got to just like try something 1861 01:22:18,520 --> 01:22:19,800 Speaker 1: and see if it's going to work, and see, I 1862 01:22:19,800 --> 01:22:22,160 Speaker 1: people are gonna want it. And I'm I've always been 1863 01:22:22,200 --> 01:22:24,439 Speaker 1: a massive fan of Steve Jobs, and I'm like so 1864 01:22:24,479 --> 01:22:26,800 Speaker 1: many others and the iPhone, and you know, it's like 1865 01:22:26,840 --> 01:22:29,360 Speaker 1: it's just so cool like this, you know, he. 1866 01:22:29,400 --> 01:22:31,799 Speaker 2: Invented this thing that became this thing. 1867 01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:34,400 Speaker 1: You know, and so you know, I feel like, don't 1868 01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:36,600 Speaker 1: ever get too caught up on what people think of 1869 01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:37,759 Speaker 1: your idea. Yeah. 1870 01:22:37,880 --> 01:22:40,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, you remind me of a famous quote from Henry Ford. 1871 01:22:40,360 --> 01:22:43,040 Speaker 3: He said, if I would have asked people what they wanted, 1872 01:22:43,040 --> 01:22:46,680 Speaker 3: they would have said faster horses. Yeah, and like that that. 1873 01:22:47,240 --> 01:22:49,320 Speaker 2: I mean, that's great because that is what it is. 1874 01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:51,920 Speaker 3: If you do that committee in that focus group. Yeah, 1875 01:22:52,160 --> 01:22:55,000 Speaker 3: you can't necessarily think beyond what you see. 1876 01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:57,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, and so many ideas don't make it, 1877 01:22:57,680 --> 01:22:59,439 Speaker 1: So many ideas fail and lots of them don't work, 1878 01:22:59,479 --> 01:23:01,880 Speaker 1: but like might as well, somebody's got to try. 1879 01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:03,120 Speaker 2: We wouldn't get anywhere, you. 1880 01:23:03,040 --> 01:23:08,080 Speaker 3: Know, absolutely, all right. Question number three, what is one habit, mindset, 1881 01:23:08,160 --> 01:23:11,479 Speaker 3: or practice that you believe every entrepreneur should try. 1882 01:23:11,240 --> 01:23:14,920 Speaker 1: To develop some sort of awareness practice, you know, whether 1883 01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:19,800 Speaker 1: it's through entrepreneurship, Like I listen to your meditations all 1884 01:23:19,840 --> 01:23:23,040 Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, and I've gotten into this place of 1885 01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:26,479 Speaker 1: every morning before I now not always, but most of 1886 01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:28,400 Speaker 1: the time. I before I get on my phone and 1887 01:23:28,479 --> 01:23:29,920 Speaker 1: check all my stuff and do all the things like 1888 01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:33,000 Speaker 1: I like keep my phone on sleep mode and get 1889 01:23:33,040 --> 01:23:35,599 Speaker 1: into a meditation while like I'm still in bed, and 1890 01:23:35,640 --> 01:23:39,000 Speaker 1: I think that like quiet time in the morning, and 1891 01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:40,880 Speaker 1: then I'll usually like write for a little while, not 1892 01:23:40,920 --> 01:23:42,960 Speaker 1: even like a page, you know, just something to get 1893 01:23:43,000 --> 01:23:46,000 Speaker 1: like like the cobwebs out almost, you know. And I 1894 01:23:46,040 --> 01:23:47,840 Speaker 1: think it's I think it's just important as a human, 1895 01:23:48,160 --> 01:23:50,840 Speaker 1: but you know, as a as an entrepreneur, just like 1896 01:23:52,560 --> 01:23:54,680 Speaker 1: you know, like level set yourself and I and I 1897 01:23:54,720 --> 01:23:56,000 Speaker 1: really try to do it before I go to bed 1898 01:23:56,040 --> 01:23:56,599 Speaker 1: at night too. 1899 01:23:57,160 --> 01:23:57,320 Speaker 3: You know. 1900 01:23:57,360 --> 01:23:59,920 Speaker 1: I always go to sleep now, whether I'm really tired 1901 01:24:00,120 --> 01:24:03,400 Speaker 1: or not, to like some sort of like sleep meditation. 1902 01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:05,880 Speaker 1: I think I only catch like the first like five 1903 01:24:05,920 --> 01:24:09,800 Speaker 1: or ten minutes. Yeah, but I really love that. And 1904 01:24:09,840 --> 01:24:11,960 Speaker 1: I never had a practice like that before. And I'll 1905 01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:13,639 Speaker 1: tell you I never had a practice like that until 1906 01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:17,320 Speaker 1: my separation happened, and I was like, you know, I'm 1907 01:24:17,320 --> 01:24:19,599 Speaker 1: by myself. We used to like watch TV and then 1908 01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:22,559 Speaker 1: fall asleep and like again that was that's like one 1909 01:24:22,600 --> 01:24:24,240 Speaker 1: of those things. And I'm like, I'm so glad. I 1910 01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:27,000 Speaker 1: almost never turned my TV out of my bedroom anymore. 1911 01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:28,599 Speaker 1: And I know that probably a lot of people don't 1912 01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:31,080 Speaker 1: believe even in that. And I'm actually about to move 1913 01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:32,360 Speaker 1: and I'm like, don't want to put a TV in 1914 01:24:32,400 --> 01:24:35,559 Speaker 1: my bedroom because I feel like I almost never watched 1915 01:24:35,560 --> 01:24:37,479 Speaker 1: TV in my room anymore, because by the time I 1916 01:24:37,479 --> 01:24:40,080 Speaker 1: get in bed, I usually want to read, I want 1917 01:24:40,120 --> 01:24:42,160 Speaker 1: to do my meditation, I want to write, and by 1918 01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:44,439 Speaker 1: the time I do all that, I'm so tired. And 1919 01:24:44,520 --> 01:24:46,800 Speaker 1: I also, I don't know, I pick up so much 1920 01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:50,439 Speaker 1: random information. But I heard somewhere somebody said it. Maybe 1921 01:24:50,439 --> 01:24:51,960 Speaker 1: it was you, who knows because I watched much of 1922 01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:54,680 Speaker 1: your stuff, but like, by ten thirty, you should be 1923 01:24:54,720 --> 01:24:55,360 Speaker 1: off screens. 1924 01:24:55,439 --> 01:24:57,080 Speaker 2: I think it was maybe Huberman who said it. 1925 01:24:57,439 --> 01:25:00,559 Speaker 1: And because from ten ten thirty to four, it's like 1926 01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:03,400 Speaker 1: your brain starts to go into depression. Again. I don't 1927 01:25:03,400 --> 01:25:06,080 Speaker 1: remember the science, but I was like, whether it's true 1928 01:25:06,120 --> 01:25:07,360 Speaker 1: or not, I like this, like I want to I 1929 01:25:07,360 --> 01:25:09,479 Speaker 1: want to be off my devices by ten thirty and 1930 01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:11,360 Speaker 1: so that's really my goal now, which I used to 1931 01:25:11,360 --> 01:25:13,320 Speaker 1: stay up and watch TV till like midnight. You know, 1932 01:25:13,360 --> 01:25:14,880 Speaker 1: I'm so glad I don't do that. Anymore. I feel 1933 01:25:14,920 --> 01:25:17,040 Speaker 1: so much better. I mean, I was also on a 1934 01:25:17,080 --> 01:25:19,920 Speaker 1: mission to like I got to feel better here, like 1935 01:25:19,960 --> 01:25:22,080 Speaker 1: I got to get out of this depression and the sadness, 1936 01:25:22,080 --> 01:25:23,720 Speaker 1: so I better do everything I can do. And now 1937 01:25:23,720 --> 01:25:26,720 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I'm not really that sad anymore. I'm 1938 01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:28,720 Speaker 1: not sad anymore. But I think I should still keep 1939 01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:31,400 Speaker 1: doing these things, you know, and so that I think 1940 01:25:31,479 --> 01:25:33,240 Speaker 1: is important to have that kind of practice. 1941 01:25:33,240 --> 01:25:34,559 Speaker 2: And I really have come to love it. 1942 01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:37,519 Speaker 3: That's beautiful. I love it all right. Question fourum five. 1943 01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:44,919 Speaker 3: Question number four, how would you define your current purpose? 1944 01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:48,599 Speaker 1: That's very clear to me right now is like giving back, 1945 01:25:48,720 --> 01:25:51,559 Speaker 1: being of service, Like I feel really called to, like 1946 01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:55,000 Speaker 1: help others in lots of ways, Like I'm starting this 1947 01:25:55,479 --> 01:25:58,360 Speaker 1: volunteer program at COCHLA, which I feel really called to. 1948 01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:01,840 Speaker 1: I'm looking at me some stuff with animals, and I 1949 01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:04,280 Speaker 1: do a lot of mentoring for other entrepreneurs. You know. 1950 01:26:04,479 --> 01:26:07,040 Speaker 1: In some things there's like you know, money involved, and 1951 01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:09,000 Speaker 1: I'm speaking at things and you know, and I think 1952 01:26:09,040 --> 01:26:11,439 Speaker 1: that that's okay and good. And then there's some things 1953 01:26:11,439 --> 01:26:14,280 Speaker 1: I'm just donating my time, but it's all in like 1954 01:26:14,400 --> 01:26:16,960 Speaker 1: in the name of service. It's beautiful for sure, right now? 1955 01:26:17,000 --> 01:26:19,200 Speaker 3: I love that? All right. Fifth and final question, which 1956 01:26:19,240 --> 01:26:21,439 Speaker 3: we asked to every guest who's ever been on the show, 1957 01:26:21,920 --> 01:26:24,559 Speaker 3: if you could create one law that everyone in the 1958 01:26:24,560 --> 01:26:27,320 Speaker 3: world had to follow, what would it be, Oh, to 1959 01:26:27,360 --> 01:26:27,960 Speaker 3: be kind? 1960 01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:33,040 Speaker 1: We're just so divided because of you know, it's like, 1961 01:26:33,400 --> 01:26:35,360 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's deeper than that, but it's 1962 01:26:35,400 --> 01:26:38,559 Speaker 1: like this notion of like, you know, even I said, 1963 01:26:38,560 --> 01:26:40,760 Speaker 1: I read something the other day that was like, anger 1964 01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:44,360 Speaker 1: is just grief. We had to like it was just 1965 01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:46,519 Speaker 1: like innate in us to be kind to other people, 1966 01:26:46,560 --> 01:26:49,280 Speaker 1: like you imagine totally what kind of world it would be? 1967 01:26:49,320 --> 01:26:49,920 Speaker 1: So much better? 1968 01:26:50,160 --> 01:26:53,200 Speaker 3: Well said everyone. In the book is called a Messy 1969 01:26:53,320 --> 01:26:57,479 Speaker 3: Truth How I sold my business for millions but almost 1970 01:26:57,520 --> 01:27:00,599 Speaker 3: lost myself by a New York Times bestselling author, Alli Web. 1971 01:27:01,200 --> 01:27:03,320 Speaker 3: You can grab the book right now. It's out right now, 1972 01:27:03,439 --> 01:27:07,040 Speaker 3: Share it, make you yourn, next book club pick, discuss it, 1973 01:27:07,200 --> 01:27:09,800 Speaker 3: dissect it. I mean, if you want to have a 1974 01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:12,200 Speaker 3: real entrepreneurial story and journey in your hand, this is 1975 01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:15,200 Speaker 3: the one to have. Ali, thank you so much for 1976 01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:17,800 Speaker 3: coming on the show today. This is amazing, genuinely being 1977 01:27:17,880 --> 01:27:20,320 Speaker 3: so open and honest and courageous in your own life 1978 01:27:20,439 --> 01:27:25,599 Speaker 3: and here and I look forward to continuing our new relationship. Yeah, 1979 01:27:25,840 --> 01:27:27,880 Speaker 3: very grateful for it. Thank you so much, Thank you 1980 01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:30,440 Speaker 3: so much for having me. If you love this episode, 1981 01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:33,960 Speaker 3: you will also love my interview with Charles Douhig on 1982 01:27:34,080 --> 01:27:37,960 Speaker 3: how to hack your brain, change any habit effortlessly, and 1983 01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:41,760 Speaker 3: the secret to making better decisions. Look, am I hesitating 1984 01:27:41,800 --> 01:27:44,240 Speaker 3: on this because I'm scared of making the choice because 1985 01:27:44,240 --> 01:27:45,960 Speaker 3: I'm scared of doing the work, Or am 1986 01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:48,800 Speaker 1: I sitting with this because it just doesn't feel right 1987 01:27:48,880 --> 01:27:49,240 Speaker 1: yet