WEBVTT - Senate GOP’s Dilemma as Democrats Side With Trump 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.240 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Karl Masser. Every day 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:05.200 we're bringing you the latest news from the world's of 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.920 business and finance, plus technology, politics. So much going on 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.160 in the world of politics, economics, and it's all harnessing 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:15.000 the power of Business Week reporters and editors. You can 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:18.720 download Bloomberg Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:21.200 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:23.960 pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio and be sure to watch 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:27.479 us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. You know, 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:30.440 I think the discussion point of the day for this 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:35.279 pandemic has been the vaccines, the distribution and availability of 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:39.440 the vaccines and how quickly is that occurring? Uh? And 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:41.960 then once we do get the vaccines, how are people reacting? 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:43.519 So let's get the latest. We can do that with 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:45.920 our good friend Dr Ian LUs Bader. Uh. He comes 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:49.000 on our show often to give us the latest intelligence. 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:52.120 Dr LUs Beder is a clinical Associate Professor of medicine 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:54.320 at the n y U Lane Going Medical Center. Joining 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:56.680 us on the phone from New York City. Dr los Beder, 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:00.240 thanks again for joining us. I understand you took the vaccine. 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:03.360 Did you tell us about your experience taking a vaccine 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:06.960 and then maybe any side effects you may have had. Absolutely, 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:10.680 Paul and Alex, thanks for having me on UM. The 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:13.200 vaccine really for me was not that at all. That 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:16.600 was the last week, last Wednesday, and there is for 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:19.679 many of my colleagues who took them. Uh. They were 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:23.360 about a hundred and fifty people that day. Uh here 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:26.360 at the n y U Center for Men's Health, and 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:31.319 we've done you know, several thousand really throughout the city. 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:35.240 Usually it's a localized pain, very similar to a flu shot, 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:38.960 so you have some soreness at the site, usually for 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.480 twenty four sometimes a little bit more than that. Um. 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:45.200 I didn't even take Thailand all, so I was sort 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:49.000 of underwhelmed. But remember that's the first shot. Many people 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:51.120 seemed to have a little bit more of a side 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:55.080 effect after the second shot. And colleagues of mine who 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:59.680 who are physicians, who had COVID and appropriately said, you 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:03.480 know where we know the vaccine gives us higher antibodies 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:06.560 for a longer period of time. Several of them also 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:09.880 took the vaccine, which was appropriate. A couple of them 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:13.600 actually seem to have a little more severe reaction of 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:18.240 some fevers and some eggs. So it does seem perhaps 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:21.639 that in the people who have had COVID who take 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:24.880 a vaccine, again that's appropriate. We think it does boost 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.320 your you know, the length of the immune response, they 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:29.320 seem to have a little bit of a harder time 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:31.640 with it. Interesting, I think the first I've heard of 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:34.800 that one UM technical question. So you're going to get 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.040 your vaccine, How did you know when to get it, 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:39.760 where to go? How do you know when to get 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:41.760 back for your second doze? And I know that you 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:43.840 might be in a different situation because you're working on 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:46.000 when you land going and you're a doctor, but I'm 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:49.480 trying to understand, like where the issue is with getting 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:53.000 the shot in people's arms. So you're you're totally right 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:56.440 that we all need to do to kind of role 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.000 this out more. We can talk about that, but at 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:02.400 least it didn't why you UM, I think it's really 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:08.560 quite efficient. Almost everyone is on an electronic medical record 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:12.600 system is called my chart. Everyone has a record. You're 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:16.720 pinned when they when your shot is available, You then 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:21.360 schedule a date and time show up for it. Sometimes 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:23.600 there's a bit of a wait, you know, everything does 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:27.519 not go off exactly on schedule. UM, but it was 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:31.480 very uh, pretty seamless, I must say. You know, first 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.480 day there was a real surge of physicians and nurses, 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:37.440 and we continue, you know, to bring people in and 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:41.360 so really the chart notifies you when you're ready, It 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:44.520 notifies you to make a date. Hopefully you show up 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:48.240 for that and then you have the staff available, uh, 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:50.480 you know, to give it to you. Uh. And generally 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:54.920 this is daytime hours. Some sites are running on Saturday. Uh. 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:57.800 So basically as many as can be scheduled during that 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:03.360 essentially eight to like that time frame, uh is done. 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:06.040 So is the expectation doctor that as we get this 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:10.040 to more broad rollout the city to some degree for posts, 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:13.440 spokes for people in New York City, the city will 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:16.320 have you know, the sourcing of the batches and then 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:19.400 we'll allocate them to various distribution places, whether it's a 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:24.080 hospital or doctor's office. Yes, that's exactly it. We've already 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:27.120 had a lot of doses allocated. I think New York 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:31.520 State is somewhere around nine thousand doses in the city. 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.080 It's only been about fifty five thousand. This is what 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:37.520 I'm hearing from, you know, the sources shots actually given 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:40.560 so far, and I think total New York State is 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:44.400 about nineties thousand, So there is a gap between what 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:49.360 is available and actually physically giving those shots out. And 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:51.880 you know, at one point we heard about the military 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:55.279 or other people doing it. To my knowledge, that's not happening. 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:58.919 The medical centers and offices are giving it out, you 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:01.320 know as hubs. It it comes to a hub, especially 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:05.000 because of the refrigeration that's needed, so they're sort of 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:08.120 come to a main hub like n YU. They're then 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:13.240 distributed to several sites under normal refrigeration, and then you 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:16.240 have X amount of time to distribute them and basically 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:20.280 on a daily basis, they are courier to the to 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:24.160 the sites when they're then distributed throughout the day. So 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:27.200 it is not the you know, logistics I think are 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.719 slowing this up a little bit. It's not those lines 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.679 of people waiting in the old days for mass vaccinations. 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.320 Uh even you know, whether it's at CBS where you 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:39.760 know people would just come in because of you know, 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:44.359 restrictions and scheduling, it's going to be unfortunately a slower process. 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:48.000 But that's my take on it. When we start vaccinating 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:50.760 the ordinary population how are those people going to get 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:53.360 that information? Is their primary care physition, They're gonna have 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:57.680 a number, what has it work? So it's unlikely it's 0:05:57.680 --> 0:05:59.800 going to be a while before the primary care for 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.120 positions are doing it. Once we get the the healthcare 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:08.080 providers vaccinated, uh and this is according to our you know, 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:11.520 more senior administrators. Once the doctors and nurses and frontline 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:14.240 people uh in the I c U s and so 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:16.440 forth get the shots, and we're in the process of 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:19.719 doing that. The next group my understanding is sixty five 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:22.800 and older. And at least for the patients who are 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:25.680 on the my chart system at n y U H 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:29.080 they will receive an electronic messages. Often they communicate. Just 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:32.880 as patients can reach me by sending me a message, 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:37.200 n y U sends out this sort of mass information here. 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:41.440 The people who meet the criteria, they then schedule an appointment, 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:44.839 and I believe some of them will be at this office, 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:48.120 at this hub where we do have the vaccine. They 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:50.560 will have to schedule it and then they will come 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:54.800 in and you know, uh, not past a certain amount product. 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:57.479 So still with us. Dr Ian les Beda, a clinical 0:06:57.480 --> 0:06:59.960 associate professor of medicine over at m yu Land Going 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.160 Medical Center. We were just talking about was light to 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:04.880 get a vaccine, how you wind up blending up people 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:06.960 to get their shot, how that's all going to work. 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:09.440 But it's like we're getting ahead of ourselves, doctor, because 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:11.360 first we're dealing with the virus that's in the here 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:13.760 and then now. And that brings me to the new 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:15.880 strain that we saw in the UK and it seems 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:17.760 to be spreading all over the world. What do we 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:22.520 know about that new strain? But we certainly know that 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:26.720 in the UK they identify this and we also know 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:31.760 that viruses mutate. We see that with the influenza virus. 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:34.240 You know that we need a new vaccine every year 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:38.360 because there's significant mutations. In this case, we think there 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.880 are probably several reasons why the virus mutates. Already, there 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:44.240 have been a number of mutations somewhere in the range 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:48.680 of fourteen ors so, and likely that is due to 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:53.160 a selective pressure. Uh. If the virus is too deadly, 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.600 h you kill off your host and that's not good 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:00.440 for the virus. So if you can increase transmissive ability, 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:04.040 in other words, make it easier to spread, great the 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.680 virus reproduces better. And if it's a little less lethal, 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:11.120 you keep your host alive longer to infect other people. 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:15.080 So there is this select of pressure not just for 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:19.640 this specific coronaviruses, but many other viruses over time to 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:23.040 become a little less a little less uh deadly. And 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.280 we are seeing the case fatality rate come down a bit, 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:29.880 but the numbers of cases and with something call they 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:33.160 are not the number of people you can infect when 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:36.560 you're infected, has gone up, and that's a concern. I 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:39.959 think we're going to see continuing rise in numbers because 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.640 of that. And I think there's some evidence that that 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:46.160 variant is here, or if not, probably will be here, 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:48.960 even if you cut off flights. As you know, people 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:51.800 can be asymptomatic, they can harbor it. So I think 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.000 it would not be surprising to see our numbers go 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:59.280 up in January, both due to holiday gatherings, probably as 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:01.960 well as due to h new strains that are appearing. 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:04.160 So that's kind of where I wanted to go, doctor. 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:05.960 I mean, you know, as I think back to that 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:08.800 first wave in March and April, we were all hanging 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:11.880 on um. It seemed like every word from Governor Cuoma 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:14.360 and his daily press conferences and and looking at that 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.480 chart and learning a new term, which is bending the curve. 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:21.640 When do you expect that we will see a peak 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:24.560 in new infections UH in the United States here in 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:28.400 this latest wave. Yeah, we unfortunately did not do a 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:32.920 great job in UH in bending the curve, really do, 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:37.440 for a variety of reasons, public health issues. We everyone 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:40.600 was not worrying, you know, masks and and really doing 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:44.640 adequate social distancing. And unfortunately, by sort of for longing this, 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:47.760 we've paid a price, they think economically by these sort 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:51.760 of shutdowns on and off. Again my senses, I think 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:56.160 we're unfortunately going to peek into late January and February. 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:59.000 Most likely there's about a three week two three or 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:02.280 four week allay with all of this, so I suspect 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:06.119 that's when it will occur. We will be getting more vaccine. 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:09.400 I think we've had a problem with distribution with the vaccine. 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:12.560 Part of it is the sub zero fiser temperatures. I 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:15.760 think as Maderna comes out, as astro Zeneca comes out, 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:19.160 as J and J comes out, it will be easier 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.440 and hopefully distribution will be easier. Of course, all of 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:24.439 this would have been easier had we had a universal 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:27.920 health record where everyone is on the same electronic record, 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:31.480 you can communicate with large numbers of people. Otherwise, mass 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.520 vaccination is not easy to do. But my sense is 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:38.160 that we're going to see some unfortunate numbers later in January. 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:42.360 Real quick, how are we doing with deaths? The case 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:46.160 fatality rate is down. We've changed our approach to treating people, 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:51.000 were often less aggressive and putting people on ventilators, So 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:54.120 that's the good news. The problem is a surge where 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:57.719 you can overwhelm hospitals and that looks like that may 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:01.240 be happening in various areas, which is the downside. So 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:05.559 although case fatality is raids down, the numbers really are 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:09.840 climbing uncomfortably. Dr inlus Bader, thank you so much once 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:12.439 again for joining us and sharing uh your knowledge and 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:14.920 wisdom of as we deal with this virus and now 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:17.640 the good news of the vaccines. Dr inlus Bator, Clinical 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:21.840 Associate Professor of Medicine at n y u Langown Medical Center, 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:24.080 joining us on the phone from New York City. We 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:26.880 always appreciate the perspective from the good folks. N y 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:31.640 uh Langgown School of Medicine. Boy A fascinating story in 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:34.720 the Bloomberg Business Week this week. Uh, it's about how 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:38.440 a charity, this one in Canada, the Superstar founders, how 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:42.679 they innovated its way to political scandal. It's a kind 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:45.240 of just a really deep, deep story that you can 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:47.760 sink your teeth until let's get to it. Joel Weber, 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.720 Editor Bloomberg Business Week, joins us on the access line 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:53.719 from Brooklyn and Danielle Bokov. She is the medals and 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:57.679 mining reporter for Bloomberg News. She is in Toronto. Joel, 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:01.720 just a fascinating story here, how these two brothers came together, 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:06.200 built up this really amazing philanthropic organization and then it 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.679 kind of just went downhill recently tells a story. Yeah, 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:14.400 So it's been a dramatic year for we charity and 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:16.800 if you're if you're not familiar with us, this is 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:22.800 like a superstar charitable organization based in Canada, and it 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:27.480 has has had this dramatic rise over over decades. And 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:30.160 really if you think about where they were a year 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:32.960 ago and where they are where they find themselves right now. 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:37.640 I think that there's just been you know, COVID's hit everyone. Um, 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:43.400 but I think in in particular, this organization found that 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:47.360 it was not only derailed from its main sort of 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:50.559 way that it would have been able to fundraise and 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:53.480 and make money, but then on top of it, um 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.720 it also found that it acquired a form of scrutiny 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:00.440 that it was sort of unaccustomed to. And I think 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:04.960 that is ultimately where Dan, Danielle and Natalie's reporting in 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:08.000 this story is so so dramatic. So Danielle, can you 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:09.880 tell us a little bit more? And you know, one 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:11.640 of the things that I find so interesting about this 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:15.280 is you obviously being in Canada, what is we charity? 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.960 And particularly the co founders, two brothers, the Kielburgers, what 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:22.920 have they been known for? They're really well known here 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:26.079 and they have been for some time, Joel. They started 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:28.640 out as Free of the Children, which was a charity 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.800 founded when Craig Kilberger was only twelve years old to 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:34.680 combat child slavery, so he was a child activist. And 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:36.720 then he and his brother Mark kind of built this 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:41.040 organization up and they moved into other work in developing countries, 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:44.400 so building schools, providing clean water, those sorts of projects. 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:47.199 But they also did a lot of educational work in Canada, 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.160 especially UM and and also in the United States in 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:55.040 the UK. So you know, they would go into into classrooms, 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:58.080 for example, and teach school children in the developed world 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:02.080 about philanthropy and in fire them to volunteer to fundraise, 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:05.680 often for Wee charity, but but for other causes as well. 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:08.360 And I think what's sort of interesting is just how 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.040 encompassing their reach was. So they had a lot of 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:15.360 big corporate donors, they had celebrity supporters, scores of school kids, 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:19.480 and we're just sort of generally really well connected in 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:23.520 Canada's elite establishment, which is still pretty clubby. And then 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:25.600 the other thing they were really famous for were these 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:28.600 we Days, which were these kind of massive jamborees, these 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:32.400 really feel good events at stadiums with pop stars UM 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:34.800 where some of the school kids in the developed countries 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:37.840 who were really involved, they were called change makers, were 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:42.240 essentially rewarded for doing good deeds by by getting to attend. 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:44.080 And that that was kind of like in a nutshell, 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:46.320 they have a complicated business model that that's kind of 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:48.280 it in a nutshell. Yeah, And you're saying, you know, 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:50.760 celebrity is like their mentors, by the likes of like 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:54.200 Oprah for example, UM So what happened? Where did things 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:57.280 go wrong this year? Yeah, so Jewel mentioned that COVID 0:14:57.400 --> 0:14:59.600 was a blow to them, me too. WE, which is 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:03.200 the war profit arm, operates trips to countries where the 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:05.880 charity side does the development work. So you would have 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:08.480 volunteers and big donors who would go and they would 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:12.200 stay in these really kind of often quite luxurious surroundings 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:14.480 and then maybe they'd help like biggest foundation for a 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.320 school or something for a little while um or tour 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:21.480 a community, and the revenue from those trips uh would 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:23.560 would go into the organization and some of it would 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:26.240 go into the charity. And obviously that was hit by COVID. 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:30.280 You can't travel during COVID. UM the stadium stuff was 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:32.840 was shut down as well because those events couldn't be held. 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:35.040 But then the other thing that happened was in June, 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:39.800 the Canadian government under Justin Trudeau awarded WE a lucrative 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:43.080 contract to run a program offering COVID relief grants to 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:47.280 student volunteers. And this would have paid a lot of money, 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:49.560 like up to thirty five million dollars, which was like, 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:53.400 you know, equivalent to a year of corporate and foundation donation. 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:56.720 So it really seemed like a lifeline. But the contract 0:15:56.800 --> 0:16:01.280 was uncontested, and it turned out that Rudeau family members 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.400 had been paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in speaking 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:08.640 fees and expenses for past rules supporting the charity. So 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:13.320 there were immediately accusations of conflict of interest. And in 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:16.960 the course of that scandal, as Jewel said, you had 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:22.359 former employees stepping forward with allegations of racism, of exploitative behavior, 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:26.160 and just generally a lot of people started looking much 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.880 more closely at this organization. Okay, so where do we 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:33.640 stand now for we and and what's the organization planned 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:39.800 to do going forward? Going forward? UM, it's not entirely clear. 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:43.120 I mean, they have said that in Canada the charity 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:45.400 ARM is winding down. They're planning to sell they have 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:49.400 quite an extensive real estate UM portfolio which they're planning 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:52.280 to sell to fund an endowment that they say is 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:55.600 going to be used to sustain their international projects. But 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.880 they are still operating the charity in the US. UM 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:01.480 they're looking at their UK ARM right now, and so 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:04.879 the possibility of a comeback I think, I think is 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:07.600 not out of the question. They have they have supporters, 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:11.080 including some wealthy ones when US down or the Stillman 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:14.280 Family Foundation has taken out full page ads in Canadian 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:18.320 newspapers supporting the organization. Um, But but it's not clear 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:21.360 and certainly, if WE doesn't survive, one of the things 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:23.399 that makes me the most sad is that there's going 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:25.919 to be a lot of collateral damage and communities in 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:30.120 the developing world. Um. You know, obviously, the hope would 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:32.399 be that some corporations that have parted ways with WE 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:34.840 amid all of this may step into help those who 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:38.359 are stranded, but we just don't know yet. So so Danny, 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:40.879 you know, one of the most interesting things, um, that 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:43.840 I think you're reporting broad Tellite was how complicated of 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:47.720 a business structure WE has used. It's sort of it's 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:49.560 for profit when it wants to be, but then it's 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:51.800 also a nonprofit when it wants to be. What did 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:54.359 your reporting reveal about that? And then I also just 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:57.280 want to you know, touch on you know, the Africa 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:00.119 element of the reporting as well. Yeah, I mean, I 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:04.919 mean it's the story is quite long, the reporting um 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:09.520 that that we did, and certainly Nadliobeko person it was 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:14.600 absolutely exhaustive, but um, dozens of entities linked to the 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:17.479 keel Burgers or to top We executive. There's a graphic 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:19.600 in this story which was our attempt to kind of 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:24.960 map the connections. Um We says. The complexity has been 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:28.520 dictated by tax laws and regulations, especially in Canada that 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:31.440 kind of trickled down to the structure elsewhere in the world. 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:33.400 But I mean, if you if you look at it, 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:37.000 it is it's kind of clear as mud. Uh. Even 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:40.320 one of their their former longtime board members in parliamentary 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:43.040 testimony this summer said she didn't know how many entities 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:46.040 they had, so it makes it difficult to entangle. The 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:52.520 accounting is also difficult to untangle. Sorry did you no? No, 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:54.560 I think just be a run out of time here, 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:56.560 So but I just want to thank you Danielle for 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.120 that reporting and it's just a fascinating report. I urge 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:01.320 everybody to take a look at it. The story in 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:05.240 Bloomberg Business Week with Danielle but Cove, she is Toronto 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:08.320 bureau chief for Bloomberg News, joining us from Toronto, and 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:11.560 Joel Webber, editor of Bloomberg Business Week on the remote 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:15.439 access line from Boklan. Just a fascinating discussion, particularly those 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:17.320 folks in Canada, but everybody, I think we'll find it 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:22.000 very interesting. I'm Alex Steel alongside Paul Sweeney. Let's stay 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.320 on tech for a second. We are joined now by 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:28.720 Rob Licasio, founder and chief executive officer of Live Person, 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:32.040 who joins us from Fairfield, Connecticut. Um Rob is the 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:35.439 luddite here on the show. That's sub anchored less. What 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:41.200 is Live Person? So we provide the technology when you're 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:44.840 messaging with like Delta Airlines or T Mobile and you're 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:48.280 like messaging them for customer care and sales, and we 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:51.840 provide the platform to provide that technology, and then we 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:55.040 provide an AI layer to do these conversations with automation 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:59.399 what we call chatbots. Uh Rob, I'm a stock jockey. 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:01.320 So the first thing I do and uh I talked 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:03.240 to a CEO as I pop up with the symbol 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:06.800 of the company and Live Person LPs N on the 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:10.720 Bloomberg terminals. The stock symbol market cap for the company 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:12.920 about a little more than four billion dollars. The stock 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:16.960 is up sixty six percent year to date. Talk to 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:21.880 us about how the pandemic has impacted the way your 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:25.840 clients companies you know, you know, like like Delta airlines 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:29.160 like David's Bridle, like the Home Depot, like Gipoltle. How 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:31.720 has it changed how they want to interact in message 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:36.399 with their customers. You know, my original vision when I 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:40.359 started the company was really about providing a digital experience, 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:42.280 much like when you walk in the store. You walk 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:45.080 in the store, you're talking to somebody, you can ask questions, 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:48.520 they help you. Now, with stores being shut down during 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:53.080 the pandemic or limited access, what happened is the acceleration 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:58.800 of the use of our platform to recreate these store experience. 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.679 But digitally is what really has driven the demand in 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:07.040 our business. You know, we're we're going to grow this 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:11.280 year and we three x the number of traffic messages 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:14.600 in traffic on our our services because consumers they still 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:18.200 want that personal service and they can't walk into a store. 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:20.760 So that changed the game for us with companies like 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:24.280 Chapolti and companies like that in Home Depot, So what 0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:26.919 do you do then, with say the customers at home 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:30.000 DEEPO in Chipotle, that you do that's different than the 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:34.200 standard like HSBC for example, or RBS. Yes, such pulpic 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:37.960 was really interesting. Obviously pandemic hits. People are not walking 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:40.960 in you know, to the stores. So how do how 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:43.600 do we you know, really change the game there. So 0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:46.879 what we came up with was a bot called Pepper, 0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:50.840 and you communicate with Pepper through Facebook Messenger, through eye 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:55.719 Message on Apple devices and you can start basically configuring 0:21:55.760 --> 0:21:58.679 your burrito right there and then you go to the 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:00.159 store and they hand it to you when it to 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:04.359 the door. So it really solved the problem of you know, 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:06.199 I'm not walking in I'm not I need to be 0:22:06.240 --> 0:22:09.800 socially distant. But now I can do this without having to, 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:12.440 you know, sit in front of Robrito and have someone 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:14.280 two feet from me. So so that's the kind of 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:15.879 stuff we're doing. We're doing for one of the largest 0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:19.119 jewelers in the country. They got shut down too, but 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:22.440