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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie

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Speaker 1: missing this as we learn of reports that the Guthrie

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Speaker 1: family passed polygraphs with flying colors. Not only that two

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Speaker 1: days emerging January eleven and January twenty four. They're significant,

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Speaker 1: but why also new images? You predicted there would be

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Speaker 1: more images from Nancy's home. Now we're learning there of

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Speaker 1: the pool area and Nano says, oh, they're irrelevant. Really,

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Speaker 1: then why did we see aerial footage of the FBI

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Speaker 1: combing the pool area and even taking pictures. Good evening.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Straight out to Crime

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Speaker 1: Stories investigative reporter Dave Matt. We are now learning of

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Speaker 1: reports the Guthrie family, each one, including Savannah, including Annie Guthrie,

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Speaker 1: her sister, including the brother, including the brother in law

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Speaker 1: much maligned, have passed polygraphs. What do you know, Nancy?

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Speaker 2: What we know right now is a former SWAT commander

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Speaker 2: with a source inside pe mc County Sheriff's office, says

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Speaker 2: that the gu.

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Speaker 3: Three family, the children and their.

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Speaker 2: Spouses were all polygraphed and past the polygraph test with

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Speaker 2: blind colors.

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Speaker 1: Wow, Dave Mac, thank you for that. I'm want to

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Speaker 1: go out to the special guest joining us right now

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Speaker 1: is George Alivo. He is a certified polygrapher. He is

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Speaker 1: former FBI and you may have actually seen him over

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Speaker 1: at our friends at A and E because he is

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Speaker 1: the polygrapher that polygraphed the Anthony family. Now there's George

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Speaker 1: Anthony getting polygraph Remember his daughter Top Mom Casey Anthony

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Speaker 1: accused him of wrongdoing of all sorts of crimes in

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Speaker 1: the Top Mom murder case of her daughter Kelly Anthony.

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Speaker 1: Georgia LVO is the one that performed all the polygraphs

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Speaker 1: for A and E's Casey Anthony, the parents lie Detector test.

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Speaker 1: And then you went on to create another A and

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Speaker 1: E program, What was the name of it, George.

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Speaker 4: That was called a Light Detector Truth or Deception. It

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Speaker 4: was a series that was based a patterned after the

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Speaker 4: Casey Anthony show.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe people are dumb enough to hook themselves

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Speaker 1: up to one of your polies, Georgia Lvo. Georgia Olivo

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Speaker 1: is based in La and as I said, former FBI. Now,

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Speaker 1: before everybody starts screaming. They're not allowed in court. Polygraphs

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Speaker 1: are allowed in court. They are routinely allowed without a

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Speaker 1: problem in civil cases, and they are allowed in criminal

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Speaker 1: cases if they are stipulated or agreed upon. Before the

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Speaker 1: poly both sides have to say in writing, yes, we'll

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Speaker 1: allow the polling. In the criminal case, we agree, and

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Speaker 1: then you perform the poly before you know the outcome.

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Speaker 1: How does it work? Break it down for people that

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Speaker 1: have never been present or never conducted or subjected to

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Speaker 1: a polygraph.

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Speaker 4: Well, a polygraph doesn't there's nothing on the screen that

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Speaker 4: shows up and says you're lying or you're telling the truth. Really,

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Speaker 4: if you really want to look at it, more than

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Speaker 4: people calling it a lie detector test, it's really more

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Speaker 4: of a stress detector test. And so we're looking at physiology.

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Speaker 4: And at the end of the day, when we say

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Speaker 4: someone passed, what we're saying is that they have no

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Speaker 4: significant response, no significant response to the relevant questions, and

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Speaker 4: so we're inferring that because of that that they're telling

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Speaker 4: the truth. Now, when there's a significant response, then we

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Speaker 4: say that there's a reason for that their responses. Reactions

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Speaker 4: don't happen in a vacuum. So when they react repeatedly

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Speaker 4: over and over to the same question, because there's redundancy

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Speaker 4: built into the protocol. When they keep reacting to the

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Speaker 4: same question, then we infer that there's deception indicated there.

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Speaker 1: So how did have you ever visibly seen them react?

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Speaker 1: Georgia Levo, Like, do they start sweating? Do they glance

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Speaker 1: around nervously? Do they twitch? Do they get a nervous tick?

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Speaker 1: Can you actually see them reacting when your poly is

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Speaker 1: going m.

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Speaker 4: Well, no, not really, because if a person is twitching

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Speaker 4: or moving or even sighing or breathing too heavily, if

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Speaker 4: the physiology is not acceptable, then well most people don't realize, Nancy.

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Speaker 4: Is that the trump card that we always have in

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Speaker 4: polygraph when people say, well, what if they cheat, what

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Speaker 4: if they try to cheat? If the physiology does not

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Speaker 4: look natural and normal, if it looks in any way

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Speaker 4: controlled or manufactured in some way that they're trying to

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Speaker 4: do something on the test, then the examiner, no matter

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Speaker 4: what the score is, numerically, the examiner has a sole

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Speaker 4: discretion to say, I'm not going to accept this test.

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Speaker 4: And it happened to me just just recently where someone

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Speaker 4: numerically passed the test but I said, now I'm not

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Speaker 4: going to accept it. So the final result in that

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Speaker 4: case that we call it an opinion test. We can

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Speaker 4: redo the test, but we're not going to pass someone

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Speaker 4: if the physiology is suspicious.

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Speaker 1: Georgia Leva, I'm curious why there's Cameron, the brother Cameron

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Speaker 1: right there. Why did you refuse to pass on that, Polly?

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Speaker 1: What happened during it?

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Speaker 4: Well, the physiology was outside of what we call normal range,

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Speaker 4: so it was atypical physiology. You know, it's kind of

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Speaker 4: like Nancy. You go, if you have a counterfeit hundred

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Speaker 4: dollars bill and you go into the bank to the

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Speaker 4: manager of the bank and you ask them to give

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Speaker 4: you change for that one hundred dollarsgoll They're going to

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Speaker 4: look at it. It's going to scrutinize it, hold it

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Speaker 4: up to the light, and they may not know the

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Speaker 4: exact counterfeit technique that was used, but they know what

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Speaker 4: the real bill is supposed to look like. And so

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Speaker 4: I've been looking at physiology for fifteen years. I know

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Speaker 4: what's in normal limits, within normal range, and if it

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Speaker 4: doesn't look normal. Now, I won't get into exactly the

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Speaker 4: diagnostic features. I'm looking at because then that's kind of

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Speaker 4: telling people how to try to cheat on a test.

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Speaker 4: But when it doesn't look normal, we can stop the test.

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Speaker 4: We can give them a warning, which you know that's fair,

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Speaker 4: give someone a warning, because then there's a possibility they

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Speaker 4: might not be doing it on purpose. It could be

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Speaker 4: something due to a medical condition. But you can tell someone, look,

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Speaker 4: you know your physiologies. You just got to sit still

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Speaker 4: and breathe normally and don't do anything to change the

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Speaker 4: outcome of this test or to manipulate the test. And

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Speaker 4: if it continues, then whether it's being done on purpose

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Speaker 4: or not, it doesn't matter. We don't have to accept

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Speaker 4: through it. We don't have to accept the find on

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Speaker 4: the America score.

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Speaker 1: Guys, the video we showed you Savannah and sister Annie

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Speaker 1: and Annie Guthrie's husband laying flowers at a makeshift honorarium.

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Speaker 1: That's our friends at Fox News. Back to George Olivo,

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Speaker 1: la Poligrapher and the Star of Casey, Anthony's Parents, the

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Speaker 1: lie Detector Test, and more Former FBI George, here's a

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Speaker 1: big question everybody wants to know the answer to this.

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Speaker 1: Can you cheat a polly?

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Speaker 4: That's a good question. If you can thread a needle

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Speaker 4: in the dark. Then I guess I would say, yes,

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Speaker 4: it's very difficult to do. You know, the law enforcements

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Speaker 4: that he has been using polygraph for decades, and you

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Speaker 4: know this, Nancy, they're not going to rely on investigative

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Speaker 4: tools that fail randomly. So we're not really worried about

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Speaker 4: someone coming in and randomly cheating on a polygraph test.

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Speaker 4: Most of the things people try to do that they

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Speaker 4: find on the internet, try this or try that, because

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Speaker 4: I look at that all the time. I'm all the

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Speaker 4: time looking at the internet asking I type in all

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Speaker 4: the time, how can I cheat on a polygraph TST.

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Speaker 4: I do it all the time to see what is

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Speaker 4: being put out there, and basically everything I see, I'm

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Speaker 4: thinking to myself, will good. Yeah, do that because it's

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Speaker 4: easy for me to spot that.

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Speaker 1: Guys joining us George Olivo, a renowned polygrapher, joining us

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Speaker 1: out of the LA jurisdiction. So wouldn't you agree that

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Speaker 1: it's SOP standard operating procedure George for family members to

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Speaker 1: be pollied? I would agree with that, yes, because statistically,

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Speaker 1: that's who you look at when somebody goes missing or

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Speaker 1: is found dead. You look at family members. Statistically, someone

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Speaker 1: close to the victim is responsible, but not true in

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Speaker 1: every case. Now, let me ask you. You've been studying

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Speaker 1: the Nancy Guthrie disappearance. If you pollyed her family, what

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Speaker 1: would you ask them? Let's just start with the brother

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Speaker 1: in law. He seems to be the scapegoat. Although a

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Speaker 1: lot of people online they look at the intruder, the

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Speaker 1: porch guy who took Nancy Guthrie, and they're convinced it's

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Speaker 1: Annie Guthrie, the woman, the sister. That's not Annie Guthrie. Everybody,

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Speaker 1: that's a man, that's a man that said, what would

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Speaker 1: you ask the son in law? Where would you start

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Speaker 1: with that?

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Speaker 4: George Olivo, Well, that's a great question, is because that's

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Speaker 4: really gonna If you say someone passed the polygraph exam,

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Speaker 4: the real question is, well, you know, what did you

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Speaker 4: ask the person? The relevant questions are so important?

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Speaker 1: That's right. What are the questions exactly?

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Speaker 4: What are the relevant questions? And of course, secondarily and

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Speaker 4: equally important, who did the polygraph exam? So if the

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Speaker 4: FBI did the exams, I'm very confident that they were

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Speaker 4: done well and they were done correctly. Obviously I'm thinking

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Speaker 4: going to think that that's where I got my train,

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Speaker 4: and I think the f guys best in the world

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Speaker 4: that polygraph. I don't have any doubt about that. But

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Speaker 4: the questions have to be carefully constructed because they can't

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Speaker 4: be accusatory questions, they can't be inflammatory questions, and they

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Speaker 4: have to be questions that don't have a loophole because

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Speaker 4: the first thing we're thinking about when we're constructing a

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Speaker 4: question for a polygraph is what could the person possibly

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Speaker 4: say if they fail this test to get out of it,

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Speaker 4: say oh, well, I failed because it was Tuesday instead

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Speaker 4: of Wednesday, or I failed because I didn't understand this.

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Speaker 4: So you want to make sure that the questions nice

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Speaker 4: and tight. One question I would not ask in this

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Speaker 4: case is do you know who took Nancy? Because that

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Speaker 4: is a kind of a rookie mistake because if I

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Speaker 4: asked someone a question a polygraph exam and in this

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Speaker 4: particular case, missing person, I say, do you know who

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Speaker 4: took her? Which includes the person themselves, right, So I

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Speaker 4: feel like I'm including that if they did it themselves

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Speaker 4: or they know who did it, then they would fail,

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Speaker 4: and they failed the test. All they have to say

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Speaker 4: is well, everything on the News says x y z

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Speaker 4: or I had a dream the other night and I

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Speaker 4: feel I know who did it. So you're back to

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Speaker 4: square one. So that's a loophole and it's a bad question.

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Speaker 4: So in a case like this, I would I would

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Speaker 4: ask it's actually pretty similar to actually to in the

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Speaker 4: case George Anthony, because there was a missing person in there,

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Speaker 4: right little Kayley, And I would ask in this case

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Speaker 4: something like did you deliberately cause Nancy's disappearance? Not are

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Speaker 4: you responsible? Because you know, even Savannah and you know

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Speaker 4: people that are truly grieving and are heartbroken, they may

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Speaker 4: feel responsible. I could have done more, I should have

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Speaker 4: called her, or I should have done something, and they

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Speaker 4: feel responsible. You don't want to ask you feel responsible,

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Speaker 4: But did you deliberately cause her disappearance? Are you And

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Speaker 4: if it's something where you really do need to know,

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Speaker 4: if it's another person, in other words, secondary involvement. They

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Speaker 4: didn't physically take her, but maybe they murder for hire,

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Speaker 4: so they paid someone, you really do need to know

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Speaker 4: if they are involved. Secondarily, I might ask something like

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Speaker 4: are you protecting the identity of the person who took Nancy?

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Speaker 4: Something like that, which is very direct, And if you

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Speaker 4: fail it, that there's no you know, there's no wiggle

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Speaker 4: room in there. If you fail it, then you got

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Speaker 4: to explain why you fail it, why you fail that test.

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Speaker 1: I was just watching George Savannah crying. Now people are

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Speaker 1: attacking her because she might go back to work. Can

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Speaker 1: people that are very upset, very emotional, they can't stop crying,

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Speaker 1: can they take a polly No?

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Speaker 4: I would say no. There's this unspoken rule, or not unspoken,

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Speaker 4: rather unwritten rule. Some people call it the twenty four

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Speaker 4: hour rule. I don't know if it's twenty four hours

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Speaker 4: or forty eight. People grieve differently, but you should never polygraph.

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Speaker 4: You give someone a polygraphics and them immediately following a

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Speaker 4: traumatic experience. So if she had just found out that

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Speaker 4: her mother's missing and he's in a huge panic, or

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Speaker 4: even if someone just finished getting interrogated on a case,

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Speaker 4: let's say bank robbery or murder, and they've been interrogated

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Speaker 4: for three or four hours, and then you throw them

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Speaker 4: in a polygraph chair right after that to take a

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Speaker 4: polygraph exam because they keep denying it. That's not really

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Speaker 4: a good idea either. You should a person should be

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Speaker 4: more in a calm state and who's to say how

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Speaker 4: long that should be. If it should be twenty four

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Speaker 4: hours or forty eight hours, but it shouldn't be somebody

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Speaker 4: who is crying or sobbing or grieving. It's not going

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Speaker 4: to give you a good result. Again, physiology is not

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Speaker 4: going to be It's going.

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Speaker 1: To be all over the map, sure, George guys George

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Speaker 1: Olivo joining us from George Olivo dot com. Former FBI

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Speaker 1: polygrapher in LA. He learned polygraphs with the FBI. I

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Speaker 1: can see it right now, George. I would be on

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Speaker 1: a plan arrayment calendar no. Maybe one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: new defendants a week, and I could see during PLA

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Speaker 1: negotiations a defense attorney coming down a long hallway in

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Speaker 1: the courthouse as if they knew something. I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 1: here it comes. He's got something. Sure enough, he has

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Speaker 1: a polygraph. My client passed a polygraph. I'm like, okay.

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Speaker 1: First I'd say who took the polly? Did you hire

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Speaker 1: a private firm to take the polly? Is it somebody

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Speaker 1: you use a lot? You paid them for the polly?

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Speaker 1: Then they would have to tell me who administered the polly.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't like that because I would want law enforcement

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Speaker 1: to administer it. And then I say, well, what were

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Speaker 1: the questions? If you want me to pay any attention

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Speaker 1: to your polly, I need to know what the questions.

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Speaker 1: They would never want me to know the questions. The

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Speaker 1: questions have to be very carefully devised. I've devised questions

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Speaker 1: for pollies and then being corrected rightly by you. The

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Speaker 1: poligrapher would correct me and say that's not a good question.

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Speaker 1: That's not going to work. It's got to be a

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Speaker 1: very direct question. So, for instance, I'm working up to it, George,

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Speaker 1: thank you for bearing with me. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: have attacked the son in law Nancy Guthrie son in law,

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Speaker 1: who is Anny Guthrie's husband and any so the questions

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Speaker 1: have to be formulated. For instance, many people have stayed

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Speaker 1: the sun in law is responsible. I reject that. Or

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Speaker 1: one of his bandmates he plays in a band or

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Speaker 1: played in a band. One band mate has haddled his

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Speaker 1: life totally destroyed because of this. That said, what question

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Speaker 1: would you ask the brother You've got the brother in law,

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Speaker 1: because you've got to ask if he was involved or

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Speaker 1: if someone he knows was involved, and what if he

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Speaker 1: thinks Ooh, maybe the pool guy was involved. What if

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Speaker 1: he's thinking maybe a grocery store delivery person was involved,

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Speaker 1: maybe a granting any son was involved. That can really

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Speaker 1: screw up your polygraph test. The question's got to be

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Speaker 1: just right. How do you phrase it? George?

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Speaker 4: Exactly so, yes, you're exactly right, Nanswy. Just like I

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Speaker 4: said earlier, you don't want to ask the question do

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Speaker 4: you know who did it? Do you know who took Nancy?

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Speaker 4: Because you're right, he may say maybe it was this guy,

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Speaker 4: maybe it was that guy. Maybe it's all the stuff

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Speaker 4: I'm hearing on the news. So if he has an alibi,

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Speaker 4: for example, in terms of where he physically was when

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Speaker 4: she disappeared, the only other option is that maybe he

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Speaker 4: hires someone or is working directly with somebody so that

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Speaker 4: he's indirectly involved in the disappearance. You want to ask

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Speaker 4: something like are you protecting the identity of the person

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Speaker 4: who took Nancy? So that would be a direct way

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Speaker 4: of saying, you know, I know who did it, but

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Speaker 4: I'm not speculating because you know, if you just asked,

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Speaker 4: how do you know? If you just asked, do you

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Speaker 4: know who it is? Then the question is, well, how

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Speaker 4: do you know? Did you have a dream? Did you

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Speaker 4: think it up? Did you hear it on the news?

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Speaker 4: So we don't want those loopholes in the question. And then,

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Speaker 4: of course, if he doesn't have a solid alibi, you

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Speaker 4: want to ask if he did it. So you don't

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Speaker 4: want to ask her you were responsible, because again you

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Speaker 4: may think, well, you know, I should have stayed a

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Speaker 4: little longer, I should have called her back. You know,

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Speaker 4: I feel bad, So I feel Yes, they feel responsible,

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Speaker 4: and that's that's the loophole. If they fail. Yeah, I

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Speaker 4: feel responsible. You want to ask were you directly involved?

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Speaker 4: So did you deliberately cause Nancy's disappearance? There's the key there, that.

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Speaker 1: Deliberate, you know, George, I think I would ask direct

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Speaker 1: questions like you're stating, such as, did Nancy Guthrie have

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Speaker 1: dinner with you and your wife Annie the night before

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Speaker 1: she disappeared? Did you drive her home that night? Did

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Speaker 1: you see her go into her home through the garage door?

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Speaker 1: Did you see the garage door close? Did you go

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Speaker 1: directly home after that? If for any was there any reason?

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Speaker 1: And wait, no, you don't want that, that's too open.

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Speaker 1: Did you reach learned to Nancy's home? Later that night,

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Speaker 1: direct questions that are more of a yes no answer.

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Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying, Georgia Levo.

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Speaker 4: Yes, every question has got to be a yes or

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Speaker 4: no answer. But here's the thing. All the questions that

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Speaker 4: you just lined up there, Nancy, they're all great questions.

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Speaker 4: They are what I would be to consider secondary issues.

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Speaker 4: Those are all secondary issues. Primary issue is did you

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Speaker 4: do it? Secondary issue is the mode and methodology and

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Speaker 4: where were you and how did you do it and

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Speaker 4: all that. Those are all secondary issues. So here's the

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Speaker 4: thinking behind it. If I ask him a question, you know,

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Speaker 4: did you directly cause Nancy's disappearance? And he passes the

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Speaker 4: test like they say with flying clothers quote unquote, and

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Speaker 4: they're asking him the right questions on the actual involvement,

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Speaker 4: direct or indirect involvement, and he passes, all those secondary

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Speaker 4: issues are irrelevant, right because he passed he didn't do it.

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Speaker 4: But if he fails that, then you can go into

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Speaker 4: what's called or break out exams if you want, or

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Speaker 4: quite frankly, it's in the interrogation process that you get

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Speaker 4: all those secondary details. Once he fails a test.

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Speaker 1: Okay, George, I thought I would be leading him up

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Speaker 1: the garden path and then dropping the bombshell on him,

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Speaker 1: in other words, leading him up to that moment and

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Speaker 1: then asking him, do do you directly have anything to

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Speaker 1: do with Nancy's disappears? But you're saying, no, don't do that.

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Speaker 4: No, no, Well, it can't really be done that way

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Speaker 4: because polygraph's not set up that way where people don't realize.

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Speaker 4: It's not really designed to be like a Q and

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Speaker 4: a session, polygraph is very very short and concise. Really really,

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Speaker 4: we're only using like six or seven questions at most,

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Speaker 4: and there's only a couple maybe two or three that

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Speaker 4: are going to even be relevant questions. The others are

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Speaker 4: comparison questions and baseline questions, and you know, it's very well,

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Speaker 4: you know, what people don't realize is that polygraph when

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Speaker 4: it's done legitimately, when it's done correctly, not the stuff

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Speaker 4: you see on you know, the some of these talk

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Speaker 4: shows and crazy things, but when it's done correctly by

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Speaker 4: law enforcement, it's a very controlled process. Even the sequence

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Speaker 4: of the question that's part of the format has to

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Speaker 4: be asked in a certain order, and we're really only

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Speaker 4: asking a very small number of questions on that test.

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Speaker 4: So We're not asking like a bunch of q and as,

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Speaker 4: and while the polygraph is running, it doesn't work that way.

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Speaker 5: Our mom is a kind, eighthful, loyal, fiercely loving woman

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Speaker 5: of goodness and liked. She's funny, spunky, and clever. She

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Speaker 5: has grandchildren that adore her and crowd around her and

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Speaker 5: cover her.

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Speaker 1: With Crime stores with Nancy Grace. In addition to reports

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Speaker 1: the Guthrie family past polygraphs, new images from Nancy Guthrie's

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Speaker 1: yard emerging. Dave Matt, Crime Stories investigative reporter, tell me

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Speaker 1: about the images.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, the shocking part of this, Nancy, is

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Speaker 2: that the images that we have now been told about

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Speaker 2: show the time just prior to the alleged kidnapping and

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Speaker 2: the time directly after it. When I say up to before,

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Speaker 2: I mean the day before and the time it starts

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Speaker 2: with picks backup when police are on the scene at

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Speaker 2: the investigation about twelve fifteen. But Nancy, we're talking about

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Speaker 2: the backyard, the swimming pool area, and the side of

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Speaker 2: the house of Nancy Guthrie's house.

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Speaker 1: Dave Matt, When you're saying the side of the house

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Speaker 1: around the pool area, I find that very very interesting.

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Speaker 1: Because Nanos is saying this new video doesn't mean anything.

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Speaker 1: But isn't there footage? Let's see that aerial footage, please

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Speaker 1: Control room of the FBI. This is my friends at

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Speaker 1: Fox News combing through the side of the home, the

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Speaker 1: entire pool area, and if you stay on it you

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Speaker 1: will see I believe it's the first guy walking, turn

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Speaker 1: around and take photos around the gate. What about that, Dave.

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Speaker 2: Matt We're talking about the photos that were taken off

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Speaker 2: from the house from security cameras, thumbnail photos that were

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Speaker 2: taken up to the day before the kidnapping occurred, and

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Speaker 2: then pick right back up with police during the investigation.

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Speaker 2: But according to what we're being told, they don't have

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Speaker 2: photos of the time in question when Nancy Guthrie was

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Speaker 2: taken from the home. So they have it right up

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Speaker 2: to that point and then right after, but not.

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Speaker 1: I find that very curious to Scott Iiker joining US

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Speaker 1: digital forensics expert founding member of the FBI Cellular Analysis

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Speaker 1: Survey Team known as CASTE. He is a historical cellular

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Speaker 1: analysis expert, former FBI twenty two years, former homicide detective

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Speaker 1: at Norfolk, Virginia PD, currently with Precision Cellular Analysis Scott.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that quite the coincudent that Nanas is saying, Oh,

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Speaker 1: don't look over here, this means nothing. First he said,

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Speaker 1: there is no video. We're never gonna have video. Nancy

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Speaker 1: Guthrie didn't have a subscription. Then in a herculeon feat

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Speaker 1: a miracle, Google, out of trillions of data points, finds

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Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie's porch cam and finds the porch guy. Now

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Speaker 1: we've got more images. Thumbnails who's to say there's not more?

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Speaker 1: And what about the incidents that it's of the pool

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Speaker 1: area and backyard And I was just saying that's nothing.

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Speaker 1: But we see the FBI combing through the pool area

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Speaker 1: in the backyard even taking photos. Why and why do

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Speaker 1: the photos lead up to the moment she's kidnapped and

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Speaker 1: then pick up after the moment she's pigging kidnapped.

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Speaker 6: Well, if you remember back when we first got these

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Speaker 6: videos of the porch guy, we said, and I said,

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Speaker 6: they're going to keep digging, right, They're going to keep

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Speaker 6: digging it. And they're going to keep digging and keep digging.

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Speaker 6: That's pushing it onto Google and the FBI if they

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Speaker 6: get different sets of data to comb through all this

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Speaker 6: data and to find these little thumbnails of the side

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Speaker 6: of the house and the back pool of backyard stuff

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Speaker 6: like very important. I think you're showing a timeline of

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Speaker 6: when those cameras were working and when they weren't working.

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Speaker 6: And think about looking at the camera or the thumbnails

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Speaker 6: of the pool area prior to missus Gotthrie going missing.

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Speaker 6: Has anything been moved since when she after she was kidnapped?

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Speaker 6: Was the gate open afterwards? Was it closed before? So

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Speaker 6: those are things that I think mister Nanosis is not

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Speaker 6: thinking through his answers before he's giving it to the

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Speaker 6: media that there is going to be some information that

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Speaker 6: could be helpful in those thumbnail photos.

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Speaker 1: Scott Iker, don't move. Let me see that aerial video again.

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Speaker 1: Scott Iker just gave me another thought. The aerial video

428
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: at Dave Mac. They were really coming through the backyard

429
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 1: in the pool area. And this is after p mc

430
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: County Sheriffs had already processed as saying the Feds are back.

431
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: Isn't it true that a dog started going crazy the

432
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 1: night Nancy was kidnapped? And wouldn't that a butt her

433
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 1: backyard and pool area.

434
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 2: Do the home in question actually faces the Nancy Guthrie's backyard,

435
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 2: and the neighbors said that between two and two thirty

436
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,959
Speaker 2: of the morning in question, that their dogs started losing

437
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 2: his cookies and was just barking like crazy, something the

438
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 2: dog did not normally do. But Nancy even more than that,

439
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 2: that when the neighbors were looking at their own video

440
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 2: camera surveillance cameras at their home, that they have two

441
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 2: cameras facing the front and two facing the back. The

442
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 2: two facing the back of their home is closest to

443
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie's home and during that time period where the

444
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 2: dog was barking, where between two and two thirty in

445
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 2: the morning, their video cameras were not their security cameras

446
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 2: were not connecting via Wi Fi. They were shut down.

447
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 2: The two furthest away from Nancy Guthrie's home were still connected,

448
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 2: but the two closest to Nancy Gibbs Bethrie's own connecting

449
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 2: by Wi Fi.

450
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: To Brian Fitzgibbons, joining us Director Operations USPA Nationwide Security,

451
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: leading a team of investigators around the world finding missing people,

452
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 1: including extractions from Mexico. He's at USPA Security dot Com.

453
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 1: Former marine and Iraqi war vet. Fitzgibbons, you know what

454
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: this is telling me the dog goes crazy behind the

455
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 1: pool area. The FBI is searching the pool area and

456
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 1: taking photos. This is from our friends at Fox. The

457
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: neighbor with the dog Wi fi is jammed when the

458
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 1: dog's going crazy between two and three am in the morning.

459
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 1: That tells me, let's see the aerial view please, that

460
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: at least one of the kidnappers came through the neighbor's

461
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: yard and entered Nancy's yard. The dog goes crazy, their

462
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: videos jammed pool area, get it.

463
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 7: Yeah, very possible. Nancy and I think that this all

464
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 7: amplifies something that we've been extensively saying from the beginning

465
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 7: that we don't know when what the time stamp on

466
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 7: this ring video of the purp on the porch is from,

467
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 7: and that we do know now the new information that

468
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 7: we do have some data coming from the cameras in

469
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 7: the backyard, which which leads us to add a little

470
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 7: bit to this story that it's very possible that some

471
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 7: of the early reporting of forced entry through the back

472
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 7: of Missus Guthrie's house was indeed accurate, and that they're

473
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 7: highlighting this through this new information.

474
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: To all three of you, help me unravel this. We've

475
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: got the porch guy. We believe there was an accomplice.

476
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: Did they did one of the accomplices come through the

477
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: neighbor's yard? Why do I care? Even though the video

478
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: was jammed the night of what about other nights? The

479
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: FBI honing in on Jan eleven and Jan twenty four, which,

480
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: by the way, Dave Matt correct me if I'm wrong,

481
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: But aren't all of those on weekends? Jane eleven, Jan

482
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: twenty four, and then of course Jan thirty one, the

483
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: night that she's kidnapped, into the early morning hours of

484
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: Feb one, which was a weekend. It was a Saturday

485
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: night going into Sunday morning. All three on weekends, each one?

486
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: What does that tell me? Somebody that worked during the

487
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:03,239
Speaker 1: week and could do this on weekends. Typically that's what

488
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: it tells you when someone only strikes on weekends. Maybe

489
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: not here, but typically that's what it tells you. Okay,

490
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: hold on, go with me, Dave Matt. All three on weekends,

491
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 1: all three in the middle of the night. If they

492
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:26,959
Speaker 1: went through the neighbor's yard, what about the video? They

493
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: didn't jam the video on Jan eleven and Jan twenty four?

494
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: Can we get that? See where I'm going? With this.

495
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 2: Yep, I do see where you're going. And you know

496
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: that's why the FBI has been going in the neighborhood Nancy,

497
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 2: looking at jan eleven and jan twenty four. And in fact,

498
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 2: one of the neighbors sat down with the FBI who

499
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 2: watched their nest or ring doorbell video in the home.

500
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 2: The FBI watched it with the homeowner as they scrolled

501
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 2: through the video from these specific nights, not bothering to

502
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 2: take it, just looking at it right then and there.

503
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 2: So they are focused on January eleventh, January twenty four,

504
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 2: and they are looking at all through this neighborhood for

505
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 2: any scrap of evidence they can find. And I think

506
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 2: the zeroing in on this is proven by some of

507
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 2: the things we're already finding out, some of the things

508
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 2: we've seen there that we're showing the video that was

509
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 2: taken the night around between two thirty and two fifty

510
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 2: behind about two and a half miles behind Nancy Guthries' home.

511
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 2: We do have the neighbor reporting the stranger in the neighborhood,

512
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 2: remember that was around January eleventh.

513
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: Well, you know what, looking at this video, hold on,

514
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: I don't want to lose a thought day, I'll circle

515
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: right back to you. Scott Iiker joining as digital forensics

516
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 1: expert again. Nano said at the get go that car

517
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: video not so much. Well it is, I wonder and

518
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,239
Speaker 1: that video is from our friends at Fox News. By

519
00:31:55,280 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: the way, Scott Iiker, if that same yard cam can

520
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: be resurrected for Jan eleven and Jan twenty four, when

521
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: we think the porch guy was in the neighborhood to

522
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: try to catch vehicles going by, because you know they

523
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: testrant it not just on foot. They had to get

524
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: there somehow. They didn't drop in from a helicopter for pizza.

525
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: They drove there and they were testing it out. I'd

526
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: want to see that yard cam from eleven and twenty

527
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: four as well.

528
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 6: I agree. If you're if you're going to go do

529
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 6: this type of crime, you're going to pre scout it first, right,

530
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 6: You've got to go out and kind of get an

531
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 6: idea of what the property is like, where the points

532
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,959
Speaker 6: of access. So if you're going to do that ahead

533
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 6: of time, there hopefully can be footage. Again, we know

534
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 6: that the Guthries did not have a subscription, so that

535
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 6: causes a big problem. But have Google continue to push

536
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 6: through those dates and times get the video from the

537
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 6: name those dates and times, trying to catch someone suspicious

538
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 6: in that area at that time.

539
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: So Scott Iiker, how did they get these new thumb prints?

540
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: Their thumb prints? Now maybe there'll be more. It ain't

541
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: over yet. It ain't over yet. How did they get these?

542
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: We were told by Nanas there's nothing, then there's something.

543
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: Now there's nothing else, and now there's something else. There

544
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: could be more. Iker, how are they doing it?

545
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 4: Yeah?

546
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 6: These thumbnail little photos are you know, not very good

547
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 6: quality and very small. They're not like we could see

548
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 6: with the video at the front porch, so uh, they're

549
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 6: going to be tough to kind of analyze. But that's

550
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 6: kind of just a you know what, I have mess

551
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 6: cameras and when I you know, I get an indication

552
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 6: there's someone at my front door, it sends me a

553
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 6: little small picture of what the camera saw and then

554
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 6: I can go into the app and look at it

555
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,719
Speaker 6: more detailed. But it sends me a quick little thumbnail

556
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 6: photo and that's what they got from Google.

557
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: Also tonight we are getting reports that the Guthrie family

558
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: car has been returned has been returned. I find that

559
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: to be significant to bey if it's Gibbons joining us

560
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: USPA nationwide security. Do you find that significant as it

561
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: relates to the Guthrie family and accusations being made against them.

562
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 4: Yeah.

563
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 7: Absolutely, Hopefully we can finally put this to bed with

564
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 7: regards to the Guthrie family. As we've said before, there

565
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 7: were hundreds of investigators on this case, certainly many of

566
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 7: them assigned to eliminate the possibility of a family connection here.

567
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 7: The vehicle has been extensively searched and returned, polygraphs have

568
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 7: been done, and hopefully that narrative can be put to

569
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 7: bed at this.

570
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: Point day, Matt, what can you tell me about uber

571
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: rye video? We've seen it in many many cases, We've

572
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: used it in many many cases. I mean, who's to

573
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,720
Speaker 1: say it wasn't a tesla that gets a three hundred

574
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: and sixty degree view. We don't know that. But what

575
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: if there are just a myriad of possibilities? Where's the

576
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 1: Uber video? We know the Uber driver has been cleared. Yes,

577
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: if you, first of all, let's just start at the beginning.

578
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: Why where does an Uber fit into this timeline? Let's

579
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: just start with that, Okay.

580
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie took an Uber from her home to Annie's home,

581
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 2: to her daughter Annie's home for game night, you know,

582
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,479
Speaker 2: having dinner and playing games. So that an Uber driver

583
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 2: picked Nancy Guthrie up at her home at five point

584
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,479
Speaker 2: thirty two pm. She then took her directly to Annie's home,

585
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 2: dropped d off, and went on about her Mary way

586
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 2: I say her. I'm not sure if we're talking male

587
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 2: or female right now about the Uber driver, but we

588
00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 2: do know that the earliest parts of this investigation, the

589
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 2: Sheriff's Department detective sat down with the Uber driver. The

590
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 2: Uber driver gave the law enforcement videos from the car

591
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 2: for the time in question and gave them every answer

592
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 2: they could possibly want, and was immediately cleared because remember

593
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie took the Uber from her home to her

594
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 2: daughter's home. She did not take an Uber from Annie's

595
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:24,919
Speaker 2: home back to her own home.

596
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: Okay, what about it, Scott Iker, what benefit would there

597
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: be in us seeing the Uber video?

598
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 6: Well, there are several different things. We're trying to make

599
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 6: this timeline that we have concrete right well, all of

600
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 6: what the family has said when she was over at

601
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 6: Annie's house, when she got home, so that's one piece

602
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 6: of the timeline we can verify through the video of

603
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 6: the from the Uber driver, which also things you can

604
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 6: see is house Missus Guthrie dressed right? Is she wearing

605
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 6: the clothes that you know she was dropped off in

606
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 6: according to the family when she was kidnapped? Was she

607
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 6: where those clothes at the house that she was wearing

608
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 6: earlier that day?

609
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 3: We've used you know.

610
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 6: Uber videos, lift videos in many different cases to see

611
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 6: things that are not intended. There's you know, the people

612
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 6: that are in the car, and then there's a camera

613
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 6: facing forward towards the front of the car and we

614
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 6: pick up a ton of different information license plates. What

615
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 6: if someone was following Missus Guthrie that night and to

616
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 6: make sure that she had left the house? Was there

617
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 6: a video of that from the Uber driver of someone

618
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 6: following her following the Uber vehicle to Annie's house. I mean,

619
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 6: there's a hundred possibilities. That's just throwing into the weeds.

620
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,439
Speaker 6: But why not look at that video and make sure

621
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 6: you've got every bit of piece of information you.

622
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: Can from fitzgibbns, he's right USPA Nationwide Security because a

623
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: lot of nights, my mom who lives with me, will

624
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: be getting her ready for bed and she will just

625
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 1: be too tired to change into her pjs. So she

626
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: typically wears like a jogging outfit or a cute little

627
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: thelure jogging thing, and sometimes she'll just want She'll say,

628
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 1: I'm just too tir of sleep in this. So I'd

629
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: like to know just what Iker said. Was she wearing

630
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: those clothes that are pictured in the uber video? What

631
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,280
Speaker 1: was her demeanor? Did she look ill? Did she seem

632
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 1: incoherent in any way? I don't know what I'm looking for.

633
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: I don't know it till I see it. That's why

634
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: I think the video should be released.

635
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 7: Absolutely, and I think at this point it can certainly

636
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 7: help if we had a description of the last known

637
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 7: clothing that Nancy was wearing.

638
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: To your point, you know, another thing has just happened.

639
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:06,720
Speaker 1: Nanos says he knows the motive.

640
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 2: What happened, Dave mac You know, Sheriff Nanos has said

641
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 2: many things during the course of this investigation that are problematic,

642
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 2: and this is another one because Sheriff Nano says, yeah,

643
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 2: we know the motive, we know why this happened, but

644
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 2: he is not willing to share that with the rest

645
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 2: of us.

646
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 3: But he adds this is a targeted event.

647
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 2: He also says, well, wait a minute, kidnappers could still

648
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 2: be out there. You need to be He's actually saying

649
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 2: to watch out for yourself. So in one breath he says,

650
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 2: we know the motive, and we know it's a targeted event,

651
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 2: but then turning right around to say nobody's say, I mean,

652
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 2: not something you want to hear from the sheriff of your.

653
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: County, you know, Bryfus Gibbons. That's exactly what happened in

654
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: the Idaho case where four beautiful University Idaho students were slaughtered.

655
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: The local law enforcement came out and said this was targeted.

656
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: You're all safe, and then backtracking went hey, everybody lock

657
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 1: your doors, you're not safe. This is very eerily reminiscent

658
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: of that, thy Paul.

659
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 7: And I'll add in one more recent one. After the

660
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 7: horrific shooting at Brown University, Mayor Brett Smiley was all

661
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 7: over the cameras saying there's no threat to the public, etc.

662
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 4: Etc.

663
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 7: Right, the situations well in hand, there's no continuing threat.

664
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:37,800
Speaker 7: Why government and officials and law enforcement officials say things

665
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 7: like there's no threat to the public is beyond me.

666
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 4: Time and again.

667
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 7: It's proven that they have no rationale or logical basis

668
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 7: to make such a claim, and it shows that their

669
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 7: main goal there is to control the narrative and keep people,

670
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 7: you know, feeling secure in their power. So it was

671
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 7: a number of missteps here by Nanos.

672
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 3: This is just one of them.

673
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to share of Nanos.

674
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 8: We believe we know why he did this, and we

675
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 8: believe that it was targeted, but we can't. We're not

676
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 8: one hundred percent sure of that, and so it'd be

677
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 8: silly to tell people, Yeah, don't worry about it, you're

678
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 8: not his target. Don't think for a minute that because

679
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 8: it happened to the Guthrie family you're safe. No, keep

680
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 8: your wits about you.

681
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: From our friends at NBC. There's Nanos at it again. Okay,

682
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: go with me here on this. What about it iker

683
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: that he doesn't know who did it, but he can

684
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 1: divine why they did it for ransom. That would be

685
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,800
Speaker 1: a plausible explanation to explain away what Nano's is saying.

686
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: Or what about this financial scam someone connected to her

687
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: and so way that was taking advantage of or planning

688
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 1: to take advantage of her financially.

689
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 6: I definitely agree, and it's I would more termin as

690
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 6: a robbery than a financial scam because they're forcing basically

691
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 6: someone to go to an ATM and withdraw money. I mean,

692
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 6: that's a robbery, that's a threat of violence or to

693
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 6: that extent. So if we're dealing with that possibility, maybe

694
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:33,720
Speaker 6: an analysis is inferring that is that they grabbed missus

695
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 6: Guthrie and took her to a bank ATM and then

696
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 6: something else happened. We don't know. I wish he would

697
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 6: be more specific on the motives that he's found or

698
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 6: through the investigation, then we can reallyst focus our direction.

699
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: You're right, Scott Iiker and Bryan, if it's Givens, there's many, many,

700
00:42:55,280 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 1: plethora of financial scams to money steal money from the elderly.

701
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be going to an ATM. It

702
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 1: could be any number of things. It could be them

703
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 1: calling their financial planner and asking for money to be moved.

704
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:15,280
Speaker 1: So there's a myriad of things that a financial scam

705
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: could entail. In this case, have they found evidence of

706
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: those financial scams and is there a money trail that

707
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 1: could lead us to the perp or is this straight

708
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:28,959
Speaker 1: out for ransom? Ransom gone wrong?

709
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, in my opinion right, this leads more to ransom.

710
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 7: Not many of these financial scams, at least ones that

711
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:40,720
Speaker 7: take place face to face, are going to happen at two.

712
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: In the morning over a weekend.

713
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 7: This is very Those are very typically, especially with the elderly,

714
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 7: are going to happen in broad daylight, when banks are open,

715
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 7: when access codes can be granted to ATMs and things

716
00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 7: like that. For this to happen at two in the

717
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 7: morning leads me to believe that this is more towards

718
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 7: the ransom gone ram than a direct financial scam targeting

719
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 7: an elderly woman.

720
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:26,800
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, as we learn the FBI

721
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: is back in Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood questioning neighbors. They are

722
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 1: questioning specifically about January eleven, between the hours of nine

723
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: PM and twelve a m. Y. We can confirm the

724
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:51,280
Speaker 1: prevailing theory is the porch guy was on Nancy's front

725
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: porch jan eleven. Jan eleven is taking center stage, also

726
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: scrutiny on neighbors that had a rental home and quickly

727
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:08,399
Speaker 1: vacated as soon as Nancy Guthrie goes missing. Dave Matt

728
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,320
Speaker 1: Crime Story's investigative reporter, What can you tell me about

729
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 1: the FBI back in Nancy Ethrie's neighborhood, going door to door.

730
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: What do they want?

731
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 2: They want any kind of video that they can possibly

732
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 2: find from ring cameras, nest cameras, any kind of surveillance video,

733
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 2: and they want to talk to everybody about January eleventh.

734
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:32,320
Speaker 2: You know, we've had the two videos, or the two photos. Rather,

735
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 2: we have one where porch guy who has the gun

736
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 2: of the backpack, and then we had the other photo

737
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 2: there we go where he's not wearing a backpack and

738
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:41,720
Speaker 2: there is no gun.

739
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 3: Well, now we know the no gun photo, no backpack photo.

740
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 2: That's why the FBI is back in the neighborhood and

741
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 2: they're talking to everyone in there about January eleventh, specifically

742
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 2: nine pm to twelve midnight.

743
00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: Straight out to our panel of experts to Justice. Morgan,

744
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My

745
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:08,240
Speaker 1: Fate on Amazon, and star of a hit podcast, Body

746
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: Bags with Joe Scott Morgan way In.

747
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 9: Well, you know the fact that we have Tom Stamps

748
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 9: now Nancy or is significant because you can go back.

749
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 9: I don't know how far back they've gone with the

750
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 9: videography that they have in hand, and what I'm talking

751
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:25,320
Speaker 9: about are all the peripheral areas. Did they have anything

752
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 9: that goes back to that date in January where they

753
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 9: can see a potential suspect moving around in that environment.

754
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 9: And also, let me throw this out there to you,

755
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,240
Speaker 9: the backpack that he's wearing, and we're back on this again.

756
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,720
Speaker 9: Relative to the Ozark backpack. I think that it's critical

757
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 9: here to try to understand did he acquire this after

758
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 9: that date in preparation of everything that he's been doing.

759
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 9: It's also been stated that that holster that he is

760
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 9: wearing is also a purchase from Walmart, which is where

761
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 9: Ozark is also sold as well. Now, granted, he could

762
00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 9: have bought this online, he could have gone to a

763
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 9: thrift store and picked it up, but it just seems

764
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 9: like a coincidence at this point in time, not a coincidence,

765
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 9: rather that he acquires all this stuff and he changes

766
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 9: his appearance. I stated some time ago that I felt

767
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 9: as though that whoever did this had been casing her

768
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 9: home all right, that they had familiarity with this environment,

769
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 9: that they were trying to understand it, trying to get

770
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 9: a feel for the environment before they take her in

771
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 9: whatever form that they took her, whether it was walking

772
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 9: out the door with her or luring her out, or

773
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 9: whatever potentially happened in this particular event, and I think

774
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 9: that that goes to this narrative.

775
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 1: Nancy also joining us, in addition to Dave mc and

776
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 1: Jesscott Morgan, Brifus Gibbons is with US Director Operations usp

777
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: a nationwide security leading a team of investigators finding and

778
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 1: extracting missing people from around the world. Former Marine Iraqi

779
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: war Vet Brian This is big. This is big because

780
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:05,800
Speaker 1: now we have ever directly linking January eleven to Nancy

781
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 1: Guthrie's disappearance. We have January twenty four link to her disappearance,

782
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: and we have the thirty first bordering into the first.

783
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 1: All three of those on weekend nights. That is extremely probative.

784
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:24,760
Speaker 1: When I would work up cases to present to juris,

785
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,399
Speaker 1: I would always look to see what night of the

786
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 1: week incidents were occurring, specifically in let's just say, a

787
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: serial murder case, a serial case stalking cases, because that

788
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:41,720
Speaker 1: gives me a bead on who is my purp He's

789
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 1: always doing this on weekend nights. Why? But that said,

790
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:50,280
Speaker 1: the fact that we now have somewhat of a timestamp

791
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: is significant.

792
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:56,280
Speaker 7: Why absolutely, it adds a tremendous amount of color behind

793
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 7: the profile that we're building of this suspect.

794
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 4: Why was it just on the weekends?

795
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 7: Is this somebody who traveled a distance, who was maybe

796
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 7: working somewhere Monday through Friday elsewhere during the week traveling

797
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 7: to the Tucson area on the weekend to conduct this reconnaissance.

798
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 7: And the second thing I'd like to add is it

799
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 7: also corroborates other information that has been revealed from the investigation.

800
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 7: Nancy's neighbor reported to numerous media outlets that in mid

801
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 7: January she wasn't sure of a specific date, that she

802
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 7: saw someone, a strange person walking around the neighborhood. And

803
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 7: this wasn't a typical walker that they would see, or

804
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:44,359
Speaker 7: somebody in exercise clothing. That somebody was walking up and

805
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 7: down the neighborhood. Now this has been widely reported, and

806
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:52,280
Speaker 7: now with this date and time stamp on the perp

807
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 7: or the suspect on Nancy's porch, it certainly provides some

808
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 7: more validation to that tip.

809
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:03,280
Speaker 1: The mass suspect scene on Nancy's front porch three weeks

810
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 1: before her abduction. It's been narrowed down definitely jan eleven.

811
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:14,280
Speaker 1: Definitely Jan eleven to Todd Shipley joining US digital cyber

812
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 1: crime expert, former detective Sergeant Reno, twenty five years in

813
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 1: law enforcement, author of Surviving a cyber attack, Securing social Media,

814
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:28,320
Speaker 1: Protecting your Home. He is at dark Intel dot Info.

815
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 1: I know, on the outside looking in to civilians, this

816
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 1: is not a big deal. It is a big deal

817
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 1: now we're looking for sure at January eleven, January twenty four,

818
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 1: and January thirty one, Feb one. This narrows down the

819
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:52,240
Speaker 1: identity of the suspect. Now people can think back, where

820
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:56,359
Speaker 1: was X on these dates? Why was he out late

821
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:01,800
Speaker 1: that night? That's just a small example. But digitally speaking,

822
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 1: forensically speaking, how will this help us?

823
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 10: Well, one of the things that has happened now is

824
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 10: that they've taken that nest camera and gone to the

825
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 10: next level of investigation. The general connecting to it and

826
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 10: getting data off is the average forensic work that it

827
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 10: is done every day. What happened in this case, I'm

828
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 10: pretty sure is that they actually did what we call

829
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 10: a chip off. They took the device apart, went to

830
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:32,800
Speaker 10: the motherboard, took the actual memory chips off and read

831
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:36,240
Speaker 10: them directly to get this extra data that was there

832
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 10: that they couldn't get otherwise because it was deleted or

833
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 10: otherwise removed from the average ability to get to it.

834
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:47,320
Speaker 10: So they did a very sophisticated process, got the data

835
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 10: off there and now had new evidence that we didn't have.

836
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 10: And this took them a while to do. It wasn't

837
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 10: something that was easily done, because it's partly destructive when

838
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 10: it takes this kind of technique to get the data off.

839
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 10: And so they were able to get that information and

840
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 10: produce new photos that show exactly when this guy was

841
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 10: there at a previous day.

842
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 1: Back to Dave Mac, the FBI in Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood

843
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:14,359
Speaker 1: in the last twenty four hours, asking about neighbors who

844
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 1: moved out before Nancy vanished. They're also keenly interested in

845
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: a home that is under construction, and they want the

846
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 1: names of all the crew members who worked on the house. Bam,

847
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:31,880
Speaker 1: what about it, Dave.

848
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 2: Mac, Nancy dead on accurate. Let's take him one at

849
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 2: a time. Here, the FBI was back in the neighborhood

850
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 2: and looking at these homes under construction and wanting to

851
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 2: get all of the employees' names, numbers, contact infosts so

852
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:51,839
Speaker 2: they can start running down timelines on every employee that

853
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 2: was working on these homes under construction. Now we've talked

854
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 2: about this neighborhood before. It is a very upscale neighborhood.

855
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 2: And there was one home, particularly in this neighborhood that

856
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 2: was for rent They don't have a lot of rentals here.

857
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 2: In this one rental home, the neighbors moved out immediately

858
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 2: after Nancy Guthrie's disappearance.

859
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:16,720
Speaker 3: Now read into that what you will.

860
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 2: But they were there until the kidnapping and then gone.

861
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:24,359
Speaker 2: So we've got the rental home and we've got construction work.

862
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 1: Okay, before we start a vigilante hunt for the people

863
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: that moved out, you remember how everyone has been attacking

864
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 1: Missus Guthrie's son in law and one of his bandmates

865
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,879
Speaker 1: in some band he plays or played in. I mean,

866
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 1: the bandmate's been having to hide in the home and

867
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 1: he has children, by the way, he and his wife

868
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: have children, I learned. But that said, before we start

869
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 1: pitchforks and torches outside the homes of the people that

870
00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 1: moved out, point out that the idea of crew members

871
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: on construction sites have been notoriously singled out in the past,

872
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 1: and it's often been correct. It's going to be hard

873
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 1: to put those crew members' names back together again. But

874
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:27,280
Speaker 1: that said, I find that really interesting, the FBI back

875
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 1: in the neighborhood trying to determine who worked on a

876
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 1: construction crew. Do I have that correct, Dave mac.

877
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 2: Yes, you have it exactly correct. They want to know

878
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 2: who was there and when they were there. You know,

879
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 2: you've got a lot of day workers that do construction.

880
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:44,800
Speaker 2: Depending on the work being done in any given day, Nancy,

881
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:47,360
Speaker 2: it could be regular crew that do the work on

882
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 2: a regular basis, or it could be people we picked

883
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,319
Speaker 2: up at you know, on the way in to do

884
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 2: one day or two days of labor. They're trying to

885
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 2: track everyone down, so it's going to be a herculean effort. Yeah,

886
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 2: one I thought they would have I've gone through before.

887
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 1: Now, well, they may be just learning about the construction crew.

888
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:08,759
Speaker 1: But that said, Joe Scott Morgan, you know the case,

889
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:13,240
Speaker 1: Jennifer Kesse and I've worked on it for years. Focus

890
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: now on the construction crews working along her set of

891
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:22,800
Speaker 1: condos and behind them. At the time, Jennifer goes missing.

892
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 1: They never have tracked them down because, as Dave mac

893
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 1: just reported, a lot of them were day workers that

894
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 1: you pick up at the grocery store, standing out in

895
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:33,839
Speaker 1: the parking lot that need work for the day. It's

896
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:37,279
Speaker 1: really hard to find them, some of them being illegals,

897
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 1: you know, just all sorts of problems tracking down a

898
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 1: construction crew.

899
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:43,399
Speaker 9: Yeah, it is, but I got to you know where

900
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 9: I'm going to start. I'm going to start with all

901
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 9: of these cameras that are on homes around there, and

902
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 9: any of those cameras that are pointed toward that construction site.

903
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 9: And guess what I'm going to start doing. I'm going

904
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 9: to start going frame by frame of every bit of

905
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 9: data that I can during the daylight hours of that

906
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 9: construction site. We're going to pull those license plates off

907
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 9: of all of those trucks. You know, because construction sites,

908
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,240
Speaker 9: what do you think about You think about big pickup trucks,

909
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:09,760
Speaker 9: you think about delivery trucks, all these sorts of things.

910
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 9: And that's where the investigation should start. Relative to this.

911
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 9: You find the site foreman, you go back, you press him,

912
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 9: do you have anybody here that works in this area?

913
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:22,720
Speaker 9: I don't care if they are day labor or somebody

914
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 9: that's here consistently, or did one of these consistent people

915
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 9: bring in a cousin said, hey, man, can you slip

916
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 9: my cousin a few bucks? You know he'll carry a

917
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:33,359
Speaker 9: bucket of nails for us or plaster or something like that.

918
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 9: You have to press, press, press, press on this bit

919
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:41,360
Speaker 9: of information. This is gold nancy relative to that site,

920
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 9: and also something I would be very curious about points

921
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 9: of observation going back to that construction site. What could

922
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:54,560
Speaker 9: you see from that construction site, for instance, looking back

923
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 9: toward missus Guthrie's home, is it even visible from that perspective?

924
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 9: You know what construction workers they climb all over these structures,

925
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 9: the skeleton of these structures. They have a POV that

926
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 9: nobody else has. They can look down into areas they

927
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 9: see a little old lady living in a house. Perhaps

928
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 9: perhaps they frame her out as an easy target. So

929
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 9: these are the things. I think this is an evidence

930
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 9: rich source here. I think they need to press on it,

931
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 9: and hopefully they're doing that right now.

932
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 1: Here's another tidbit of information. We know Joe Scott that

933
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 1: whoever the construction crew is that they're interested in, would

934
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 1: have to have been there on Jane eleven, probably before that,

935
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 1: because if one of them is involved, and that's a

936
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 1: big if, because whoever it is is smart enough to

937
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 1: outsmart local sheriffs and now take the Feds on a

938
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 1: run down a wild goose chase, that have to be

939
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:00,959
Speaker 1: there before Jane eleven, the first day of interest, because

940
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: they didn't just see her home that day and come

941
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 1: up with a plan, right, they saw the home, they

942
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 1: thought about it, and then went in the neighborhood. So

943
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:14,439
Speaker 1: was somebody that was there Jan eleven at least Now

944
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 1: did they work on the crew that whole time? Know,

945
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 1: they could have come back to the neighborhood, But that said,

946
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 1: that's the origin point Jan eleven. Agree, disagree?

947
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.

948
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 9: And also this idea of casing that I mentioned earlier,

949
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 9: you know, it kind of got the baiting the blood

950
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 9: in the water at this point in time. If they're

951
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,439
Speaker 9: if they if that's from an observable position where you're

952
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 9: looking back at her home, then that puts blood in

953
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 9: the water relative to one individual perhaps showing back up

954
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:44,560
Speaker 9: to see you know what, let me take a closer

955
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 9: look here and you go back to that date that

956
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 9: Jan eleven, day, and that's the moment in time where

957
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 9: they step in and who knows. They may they may

958
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 9: have approached from a different perspective and looked at this

959
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 9: residence from that perspective, and they're not caught on the camp.

960
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 9: They could be kind of circulating around this environment. You

961
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:06,040
Speaker 9: never know, relative to the perspective that they have, there's

962
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 9: something that drew this individual's eye. I think that I

963
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 9: still think that people are aware because out of all

964
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 9: the residences in this neighborhood, they focus on her neighbor,

965
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 9: on her home, Missus Guthrie's home, out of everybody else's,

966
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 9: they targeted her names.

967
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 1: Also, we are learning investigator seeking video as I mentioned

968
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 1: nine pm to midnight Jan eleven, and are also interested

969
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 1: in an end quote suspicious vehicle spotted on Via and

970
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:38,439
Speaker 1: Trata that's a street near Nancy Guthries' home around ten

971
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 1: am ten am Jan thirty one. Interesting, What can you

972
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 1: tell me about that, Dave matc A suspicious vehicle on

973
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: a street Via and Trota ten am Jan thirty one.

974
00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 2: Right, And the FBI is looking for every possible surveillance camera,

975
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 2: ring doorbell camera that they can find pointing towards the

976
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 2: road to get us a shot of this suspicious vehicle,

977
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 2: and they're asking for a block of time from them

978
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 2: to eleven thirty am on January thirty first, the morning

979
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 2: before the kidnapping that took place later that night. So

980
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 2: we're talking about the morning of So this suspicious vehicle

981
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:30,560
Speaker 2: on a road nearby. Now suspicious, Not exactly sure what

982
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 2: that means, but it's stuck out, Nancy, and it's stuck

983
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 2: out during the daytime.

984
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 3: That says a lot.

985
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:41,400
Speaker 1: Again, let me stress that no one on that construction crew,

986
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 1: no neighbor that moved out, has been named as a

987
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 1: suspect or a person of interest. These are lines of

988
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 1: inquiry by the FBI, and it gives us an idea

989
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 1: as to where they're headed in the investigation. Again, the

990
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:01,960
Speaker 1: last thing you want, would you agree, if it's Gibbons,

991
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 1: is to rush down the wrong avenue and name or suspect,

992
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 1: a POI or a suspect prematurely. That's the first thing

993
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:16,520
Speaker 1: you will hear on cross examination if there is ever

994
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 1: a trial. Isn't it true you named Brian if it's Gibbons,

995
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 1: as your first person of interest, and now you want

996
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 1: the jury to convict my guy. You don't want to

997
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 1: hear that. So no lynch mobs.

998
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:34,880
Speaker 7: Agree absolutely, and in this case has drawn so much

999
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 7: public attention that law enforcement needs to keep any person's

1000
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 7: of interest or suspects very close to the chest at

1001
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 7: this point, not only to keep the lynch mob, so

1002
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:51,400
Speaker 7: to speak, from forming, but from a very functional standpoint,

1003
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:55,919
Speaker 7: they don't want the suspect or this individual to have

1004
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 7: really any information about what they do or don't know.

1005
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:01,320
Speaker 4: Totally Grei.

1006
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

1007
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 11: To whoever has her or knows where she is, that

1008
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:41,400
Speaker 11: it's never too late, and you're not lost or alone,

1009
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,400
Speaker 11: and it is never too late to do the right thing.

1010
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 11: And we are here, we believe, and we believe in

1011
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 11: the essential goodness of every human being.

1012
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 1: And it's stubber tooy straight out to Dave Matt, Crime

1013
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 1: Story's investigative reporter joining us tonight, Dave mac just what

1014
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 1: we don't need allegations of misconduct tampering with evidence within

1015
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 1: the Pema County Sheriff's Department.

1016
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 2: What the allegation is that the Pema County Shriff's office

1017
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,360
Speaker 2: has prevented evidence from being turned over in a timely

1018
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:27,400
Speaker 2: manner to the FBI and allowing others to investigate this.

1019
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:31,400
Speaker 2: The tampering is holding back with holding information and evidence

1020
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:36,360
Speaker 2: from others who could actually provide possible solutions to the.

1021
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 3: Problems that exist.

1022
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 2: And we know that he that Nanos has prevented the

1023
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 2: FBI from coming in right off the bat.

1024
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 3: And that's where this goes back to now.

1025
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:49,520
Speaker 1: Claims I'm tampering with evidence allegations on misconduct. Now a

1026
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 1: recall effort on Nanos. What's happening, Dave.

1027
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 2: You know, Nancy, this started last week. Local politicians have

1028
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:59,200
Speaker 2: just had their fill. They're embarrassed and humiliated with what

1029
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:03,440
Speaker 2: Nanos has done. Plus there also was an interview with

1030
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 2: him under oath in December with Nanos where he said

1031
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 2: he had never been suspended in the line of duty,

1032
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 2: and that turned out to be not true. So Nanos

1033
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:16,200
Speaker 2: is really under the gun here and a recall vote

1034
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 2: is being sought.

1035
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:19,760
Speaker 3: They have ninety days to get.

1036
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 2: All the signatures necessary to actually move forward with a

1037
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:26,000
Speaker 2: recall vote, and it has begun in earnest.

1038
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 1: Now question in order for a recall vote, I believe

1039
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 1: they need one hundred thousand signatures to make that happen.

1040
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:41,720
Speaker 1: Here's my concern to Brian Fitzgibbons, joining US Director Operations USP,

1041
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 1: a nationwide security leading a team of investigators around the

1042
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 1: world to find missing people, including extractions from Mexico. He

1043
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 1: is a former marine an Iraqi war vet. Recall maybe

1044
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 1: a good idea, maybe not, but not right now in

1045
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 1: the middle of this investigation. Nanos's attention is already diverted

1046
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 1: between this investigation, claims of misconduct and tampering. Of course,

1047
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:16,680
Speaker 1: he's got his reality show to handle. But that said,

1048
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:20,240
Speaker 1: he does not need another diversion of attention.

1049
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, and it's important to remember here that Sheriff Nanos

1050
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 7: is an elected official.

1051
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 4: And I know that that's not.

1052
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:33,960
Speaker 7: That's not one hundred percent uniform across the country where

1053
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 7: law enforcement officials are indeed elected, but they're in Pima

1054
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:40,760
Speaker 7: County he is. And what this seems to be is

1055
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:46,080
Speaker 7: political opportunism bringing about this recall, and it's certainly going

1056
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:49,960
Speaker 7: to add quite a bit to the plate of Sheriff

1057
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:52,920
Speaker 7: Nanos where he's going to be worried about protecting his

1058
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:54,440
Speaker 7: politically elected position.

1059
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:59,440
Speaker 1: Now, Dave mac do you recall the discovery of a

1060
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:04,560
Speaker 1: backpack near Nancy Guthrie's home and after a lot of

1061
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 1: media attention. It was determined the backpack was not connected

1062
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 1: to Nancy Guthrie's kidnap. In fact, there were items in

1063
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:16,840
Speaker 1: the backpack that belonged to a child, a juvenile, and

1064
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 1: the weathering of the backpack suggests that it had been

1065
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:22,960
Speaker 1: out in the elements for a really long time, pre

1066
01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:25,920
Speaker 1: dating Nancy's kidnapping. Do you recall that, I do.

1067
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 2: It was found in an area that is often used

1068
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:31,400
Speaker 2: by homeless people looking for a place to get out

1069
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:34,240
Speaker 2: of the elements, and there were other items found in

1070
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:37,440
Speaker 2: there that were indicative of having been out in the

1071
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 2: elements for a long time. And so while it was

1072
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:43,720
Speaker 2: a backpack, and while it was near the home of

1073
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie, it really was not part of the case.

1074
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:51,480
Speaker 1: Over a month after eighty four year old Nancy Guthrie

1075
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 1: vanishes from Rtuson home, the investigation has taken a very

1076
01:06:56,560 --> 01:07:04,440
Speaker 1: disturbing turn. Allegations of misconduct in tampering with evidence, information leaks,

1077
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:11,520
Speaker 1: coordination failures between various agencies now taking center stage when

1078
01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 1: all eyes all attentions should be on finding Nancy Guthrie.

1079
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:22,120
Speaker 1: More scrutiny around the investigation and how the evidence has

1080
01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:27,120
Speaker 1: been handled now mounting questions about the handling of the

1081
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:32,600
Speaker 1: evidence as the investigation enters a quote more complicated phase.

1082
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 1: Now I want to go back to not just the backpack,

1083
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 1: but a recent discovery found near Nancy Guthrie's home in

1084
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:48,520
Speaker 1: a wash to what that means is where the torrential

1085
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:53,920
Speaker 1: water has washed out the soil looks kind of like

1086
01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:57,000
Speaker 1: a dry creek bed. That's what a wash is. Now,

1087
01:07:57,320 --> 01:08:01,560
Speaker 1: I want to show you what Adrian f hosted on X.

1088
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:06,440
Speaker 1: I believe we're seeing tan capri shoes, a bedspread, and

1089
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:12,040
Speaker 1: a knee brace. Am I missing anything? Dave mac What.

1090
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 2: You're looking at here, Nancy is you're looking at an

1091
01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:17,880
Speaker 2: arroyo that has this pants, the tan pants that are

1092
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:21,959
Speaker 2: seen in that arroyo, the tan shoes that you mentioned before,

1093
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:26,280
Speaker 2: and a knee brace and all of this near Nancy

1094
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:27,240
Speaker 2: Guthries's home.

1095
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:30,240
Speaker 3: It is shockingly.

1096
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:32,160
Speaker 2: Close to the home, and you would think that this

1097
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:35,640
Speaker 2: would be a big deal finding pants, shoes, and a

1098
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:36,280
Speaker 2: knee brace.

1099
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:45,240
Speaker 1: Thoughts on tan pants, shoes, knee brace, and bedspread, whether

1100
01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:50,800
Speaker 1: they are connected or not, don't you think straight out

1101
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:57,000
Speaker 1: to Todd Shipley joining us, Todd digital cybercrime expert former

1102
01:08:57,040 --> 01:09:01,960
Speaker 1: detective Sergeant Reno, Nevada, PD twenty five years in law

1103
01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:07,160
Speaker 1: enforcement at Dark Intel dot Info. Shouldn't that have at

1104
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:11,800
Speaker 1: least been gathered and processed to determine if it's real,

1105
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:13,200
Speaker 1: if it's connected it anyway?

1106
01:09:13,360 --> 01:09:15,559
Speaker 10: Well, certainly you would think that in this kind of

1107
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:19,000
Speaker 10: case they would have been gathering everything they can find,

1108
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 10: even if they don't necessarily think it's relative at the time,

1109
01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 10: because once somebody calls something in like that, where are

1110
01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:27,400
Speaker 10: they going to go? They don't have any information now,

1111
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 10: So yes, they should be collecting everything they can find

1112
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:32,880
Speaker 10: and trying to identify whether it's related or not.

1113
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:38,400
Speaker 1: According to Adrian f posting on social here are the

1114
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 1: items found today exploring with Jim and we're called in

1115
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 1: jl R investigates called the items into authorities. Now I

1116
01:09:50,120 --> 01:09:53,640
Speaker 1: want to address that to Joseph Scott Morgan joining US

1117
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:57,360
Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University. He is the author of

1118
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:00,360
Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and he is the

1119
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:03,920
Speaker 1: star of a hit podcast, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan.

1120
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:09,000
Speaker 1: More important for our purposes tonight. He's a death investigator

1121
01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:13,759
Speaker 1: with over ten thousand death investigations under his belt. Deaths

1122
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:18,560
Speaker 1: of all sorts. Of course, there are only a few alternatives,

1123
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 1: natural causes, accident, suicide unexplained, and homicide. That's what he's

1124
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:34,040
Speaker 1: done his whole life. Now, when we get information, it

1125
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:39,160
Speaker 1: doesn't have to come from law enforcement. The FBI doesn't

1126
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:40,880
Speaker 1: have to be walking along the side of the road

1127
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:45,880
Speaker 1: and has Matt outfit and find this. Citizens can find

1128
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:49,760
Speaker 1: information and call it in. Then when you put the

1129
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:53,679
Speaker 1: citizen up on the stand, Joe Scott Morgan, that citizen

1130
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:57,479
Speaker 1: can be cross examined until the cows come home, until

1131
01:10:57,520 --> 01:11:01,040
Speaker 1: the defense attorney is blue in the face. But that

1132
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:06,200
Speaker 1: doesn't mean the evidence isn't real just because law enforcement

1133
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:07,280
Speaker 1: didn't find it.

1134
01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:13,280
Speaker 9: You're absolutely right, it doesn't invalidate what a citizen might find.

1135
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:15,160
Speaker 9: As a matter of fact, I've been involved in a

1136
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:18,080
Speaker 9: number of cases where you have pedestrians that are just

1137
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:21,599
Speaker 9: kind of walking along the way where bits of items

1138
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:24,480
Speaker 9: of bits of what turned out to be evidence were recovered.

1139
01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:30,000
Speaker 9: They found weapons, shell casings, hell, Nancy. I've had cases

1140
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:33,680
Speaker 9: where a person's dog has drug, human remains up in

1141
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:36,439
Speaker 9: the yard. So yeah, the cops don't have to be

1142
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:40,160
Speaker 9: directly involved in it to validate the evidence. So anything

1143
01:11:40,200 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 9: that they're out there, and our colleague mentioned this just

1144
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:45,680
Speaker 9: a moment ago. Right now, they don't really have buckcus

1145
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:49,240
Speaker 9: and so anything that's out there that is within the

1146
01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:54,040
Speaker 9: spectrum of the vicinity of her home has evidentiary value.

1147
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:58,040
Speaker 9: It's a matter of evaluating it to try to see

1148
01:11:58,080 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 9: what it's worth at this point in time. But in

1149
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:04,320
Speaker 9: order to do that, it has to be documented, it

1150
01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:07,360
Speaker 9: has to be preserved, it has to be collected, and

1151
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:09,640
Speaker 9: then it has to be brought in for processing. If

1152
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 9: you don't do these things, then it ain't worth a

1153
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:14,360
Speaker 9: gunpowder to blow at hell, you've just got photos by

1154
01:12:14,439 --> 01:12:17,320
Speaker 9: some citizen out there that's saying, well, yeah, we found this,

1155
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:21,519
Speaker 9: but it was never moved on. So everything in this case, Nancy,

1156
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:23,680
Speaker 9: is more than critical.

1157
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:27,439
Speaker 1: Just got Morgan, You've been in court so many times

1158
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:33,519
Speaker 1: that as an expert witness, regardless of who finds the evidence,

1159
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:37,520
Speaker 1: and maybe that person can be attacked on cross exam,

1160
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:45,080
Speaker 1: did the evidence exist? Is the evidence real? Every witness

1161
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:46,920
Speaker 1: you put on the stand is not going to be

1162
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:49,240
Speaker 1: a nun, a priest, or a virgin. Let's just go

1163
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:53,559
Speaker 1: with that, okay. But the reason I care about this

1164
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:59,200
Speaker 1: blanket is because there is a theory that Nancy Guthrie

1165
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:03,519
Speaker 1: was wrapped in a blanket or wrapped up in something

1166
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:11,800
Speaker 1: there on the front porch and transported wrapped up. Is

1167
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 1: it true? Don't know, but that's why I care about

1168
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:21,240
Speaker 1: that blanket. If it's even real. What does the blood

1169
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:26,280
Speaker 1: tell you? Is that very possible? Based on the blood

1170
01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:27,040
Speaker 1: on her front porch.

1171
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:29,880
Speaker 9: We could go down two roads with this, Nancy. First off,

1172
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:34,120
Speaker 9: I've had cases where people are bleeding, okay, and say,

1173
01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:37,120
Speaker 9: for instance, a perpetrator is trying to do what is

1174
01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:40,080
Speaker 9: called stem the bleeding, and that can either be an

1175
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:43,080
Speaker 9: individual that is injured and still alive, or can be

1176
01:13:43,080 --> 01:13:47,639
Speaker 9: an individual that is deceased, and suddenly the perpetrator looks

1177
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:49,439
Speaker 9: down and says, oh my god, I've got blood. I

1178
01:13:49,479 --> 01:13:52,760
Speaker 9: need to stem, I need to stop the flow or

1179
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:56,439
Speaker 9: the presentation of blood. That could happen. Okay, I've seen

1180
01:13:56,479 --> 01:13:58,519
Speaker 9: that happen. And then all of a sudden, you know,

1181
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:02,160
Speaker 9: when you think about this collection that has been identified

1182
01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:05,960
Speaker 9: as Missus Guthrie's blood, why does it just suddenly end?

1183
01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:07,880
Speaker 9: And I think that that's a big question, and it's

1184
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:12,400
Speaker 9: a valid question. Or if you've got if you've got

1185
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:16,519
Speaker 9: a surface that is so inundated with blood. That would

1186
01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:18,840
Speaker 9: mean a profuse amount of blood in order to have

1187
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:22,280
Speaker 9: it seep through that medium and have it transfer onto

1188
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:25,120
Speaker 9: the ground. I think this happened prior to being wrapped.

1189
01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:29,600
Speaker 1: So bottom line, is it possible. That's a yes no

1190
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:30,840
Speaker 1: Joe Scott.

1191
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:32,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's possible.

1192
01:14:33,000 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 4: She could have been wrapped up in a book.

1193
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:38,720
Speaker 5: She's eighty four years old. Her health, her heart.

1194
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:43,800
Speaker 11: Is fracial in every hour and minute and second, and

1195
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:47,160
Speaker 11: every long night has been agony since then.

1196
01:14:48,320 --> 01:14:49,760
Speaker 5: She is without any medicine.

1197
01:14:50,320 --> 01:14:51,559
Speaker 4: She needs it to survive.

1198
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:56,200
Speaker 1: We need your help in the midst of the search

1199
01:14:56,479 --> 01:15:00,360
Speaker 1: for her mother. Savannah Guthrie also having to to deal

1200
01:15:00,439 --> 01:15:07,840
Speaker 1: with attacks. Why why attack? A crime victim? Joining me?

1201
01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:14,080
Speaker 1: Renowned psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction Doctor Bethany Marshall.

1202
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 1: She is the author of deal Breakers. You can see

1203
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:20,320
Speaker 1: her now on peacock and you can find her at

1204
01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:26,240
Speaker 1: doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Also with us Guru pr Guru

1205
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:31,559
Speaker 1: to the Stars rob Shooter. He's the author of a

1206
01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:34,800
Speaker 1: hit new book that is climbing the charts on Amazon.

1207
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:39,160
Speaker 1: It started with a whisper. He's also a robshooter dot

1208
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:44,639
Speaker 1: substack dot com. Some of his clients, the infamous Sean

1209
01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:53,360
Speaker 1: Puffy aka Ditty aka Love Comes Britney Spears. I could

1210
01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:58,440
Speaker 1: go on, but I don't understand why this is happening.

1211
01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:02,799
Speaker 1: Straight out to doctor Bethany Marshall, the most recent attack

1212
01:16:03,040 --> 01:16:07,280
Speaker 1: on our friend Savannah Guthrie crime victim, is because she

1213
01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:10,240
Speaker 1: is considering going back to work.

1214
01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:14,080
Speaker 12: Nancy, I would question all of these haters, all of

1215
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:19,320
Speaker 12: these criticizers. Do they spend their entire lives with their parents. No,

1216
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:22,760
Speaker 12: they have work, they pay bills, they take care of

1217
01:16:22,800 --> 01:16:25,680
Speaker 12: their children. They have lives, and you know why they

1218
01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:31,040
Speaker 12: have lives because their parents raised them to have lives. Nancy.

1219
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:35,880
Speaker 12: I think everybody who's criticizing Savannah has what we call

1220
01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:41,200
Speaker 12: pathological envy. Pathological envy is the is the sense that

1221
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:45,000
Speaker 12: if you have something good, it means I will never

1222
01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:47,760
Speaker 12: get it for myself. And we know Savannah has a

1223
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:51,160
Speaker 12: lot of wonderful things about her life. She has her

1224
01:16:51,200 --> 01:16:56,439
Speaker 12: sibling group that seems so supportive, She's a star on TV,

1225
01:16:57,040 --> 01:17:00,519
Speaker 12: she had a and has a wonderful relationship ship with

1226
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:04,240
Speaker 12: her mother. She has a supportive spouse, two beautiful children,

1227
01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:08,040
Speaker 12: and I think that the haters are so envious. This

1228
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:11,360
Speaker 12: has put a spotlight on Savannah's life, and when the

1229
01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:15,080
Speaker 12: spotlight went on her life, everybody who is envious just

1230
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:15,960
Speaker 12: stepped forward.

1231
01:17:16,360 --> 01:17:22,479
Speaker 1: Rob Sheeter joining me. Rob. We've all faced various ups

1232
01:17:22,479 --> 01:17:25,160
Speaker 1: and downs in life. That video from our friends at

1233
01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:30,760
Speaker 1: Fox News, by the way, thank you Fox. When, as

1234
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:34,599
Speaker 1: you know, my fiance was murdered, I dropped out of school.

1235
01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:38,400
Speaker 1: My plan was to be a Shakespearean literature teacher at

1236
01:17:38,400 --> 01:17:44,880
Speaker 1: the university level. That dream was dashed. That said, it

1237
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:48,680
Speaker 1: took me a long time to get it together to

1238
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:53,800
Speaker 1: go back to school, which I did. But Savannah, on

1239
01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:57,720
Speaker 1: top of facing the kidnap of her mother, her disappearance,

1240
01:17:57,960 --> 01:18:02,960
Speaker 1: her horrible health is shoes missus guthries the specter that

1241
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:06,720
Speaker 1: her mom may be dead, that she has not survived

1242
01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:13,680
Speaker 1: this ordeal that's looming heavily. But unlike me, I had

1243
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:19,439
Speaker 1: no responsibility like Savannah because Savannah has children and that

1244
01:18:20,439 --> 01:18:26,800
Speaker 1: is the overarching responsibility. So it's not just returning to

1245
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:30,439
Speaker 1: a position at the Today Show. It's returning to her

1246
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:36,400
Speaker 1: two minor children. I mean, that is her priority. In

1247
01:18:36,479 --> 01:18:39,440
Speaker 1: my mind, that is my priority, and I guess I'm projecting,

1248
01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:43,840
Speaker 1: but what do you advise? You know, the other day,

1249
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:47,639
Speaker 1: who was Oh it was Katherine Heigel. Somebody was hating

1250
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:51,360
Speaker 1: on her for going to a charity event and she

1251
01:18:51,560 --> 01:18:54,360
Speaker 1: actually engaged with the haters. And I get it. You

1252
01:18:54,439 --> 01:18:57,000
Speaker 1: want to say something back, and you may be right,

1253
01:18:57,120 --> 01:19:01,479
Speaker 1: But is it worth it? Are they worth it? I

1254
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:05,040
Speaker 1: say no? But what do you do in a situation

1255
01:19:05,200 --> 01:19:08,840
Speaker 1: like this? She's getting hey from every corner, from going

1256
01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:12,679
Speaker 1: back to work to her recent reunion with her Today

1257
01:19:12,800 --> 01:19:16,200
Speaker 1: Show co host and friends. I think that just poured

1258
01:19:16,240 --> 01:19:20,559
Speaker 1: gas on the fire. The haters claiming, some people claiming

1259
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:24,120
Speaker 1: that she's part of the plot to kidnap her own mother,

1260
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:26,800
Speaker 1: that she's trying to cover up for the brother in law.

1261
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:30,400
Speaker 1: It's crazy talk. So you're the pr guru, What did

1262
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:30,720
Speaker 1: she do?

1263
01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:34,000
Speaker 13: Yeah, professionally, she should tune it out and focus on

1264
01:19:34,040 --> 01:19:37,040
Speaker 13: what really matters, which is her health, of family health,

1265
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:40,320
Speaker 13: her children, being a mom is her priority. You have it,

1266
01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:43,480
Speaker 13: absolutely right, Nancy. That's not a projection. I've met Savannah

1267
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:46,880
Speaker 13: many many times. We have mutual friends together. This is

1268
01:19:47,080 --> 01:19:49,160
Speaker 13: what she wants to do. She wants to be with

1269
01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:52,200
Speaker 13: her kids, and her kids have lost their potentially lost

1270
01:19:52,240 --> 01:19:55,479
Speaker 13: their grandmother, too, So she's being a mom. That's her

1271
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:58,480
Speaker 13: first priority. She will go back to work. She's indicated

1272
01:19:58,720 --> 01:20:00,800
Speaker 13: that she will return to the day. We don't have

1273
01:20:00,840 --> 01:20:03,960
Speaker 13: a date. It's completely mind blowing to me that people

1274
01:20:04,240 --> 01:20:07,400
Speaker 13: have been this cool, and I think people are going

1275
01:20:07,439 --> 01:20:11,960
Speaker 13: through is there's no roadmap to this. We unfortunately all

1276
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:15,080
Speaker 13: know what it's like to have trauma in our lives. However,

1277
01:20:15,400 --> 01:20:17,519
Speaker 13: to have a parent to go miss in with very

1278
01:20:17,520 --> 01:20:21,560
Speaker 13: few answers. There is no prototype, there is no standard behavior,

1279
01:20:21,640 --> 01:20:24,560
Speaker 13: there's no road map to follow. So Savannah here is

1280
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:27,120
Speaker 13: a pioneer. What should she do? And I think she

1281
01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:30,519
Speaker 13: should just follow her heart. She's got a deep, deep

1282
01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:33,599
Speaker 13: faith and so's she's really lean into that. And she's

1283
01:20:33,640 --> 01:20:35,880
Speaker 13: been spending a lot of time here in New York

1284
01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:38,960
Speaker 13: with her friends. So I think she's doing everything she

1285
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:42,280
Speaker 13: should do everything she needs to do. And let's hope

1286
01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:45,120
Speaker 13: that she can tune this hate out. We should put

1287
01:20:45,160 --> 01:20:48,880
Speaker 13: out Nancy, though this hate is a minority. Most of

1288
01:20:48,920 --> 01:20:52,320
Speaker 13: the response, most of the response has been overwhelming love.

1289
01:20:53,200 --> 01:20:58,000
Speaker 1: Okay, Rob sheater, Maybe I've got information incorrect here, but

1290
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:01,800
Speaker 1: aren't you the author of a brand new book that's

1291
01:21:01,800 --> 01:21:04,240
Speaker 1: climbing the charts at Amazon. It started with a whisper,

1292
01:21:04,280 --> 01:21:04,800
Speaker 1: isn't that you?

1293
01:21:05,680 --> 01:21:07,639
Speaker 13: It is me, Nancy, that is my book?

1294
01:21:07,880 --> 01:21:10,719
Speaker 1: Okay? And aren't you the star of robshooter dot substack

1295
01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:14,519
Speaker 1: dot com and host of Naughty but Nice podcast? Isn't

1296
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 1: it truth?

1297
01:21:15,320 --> 01:21:16,240
Speaker 13: The star of both?

1298
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:16,519
Speaker 4: Yes?

1299
01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:19,200
Speaker 1: Okay? And isn't it true that you are so the

1300
01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:22,040
Speaker 1: so called publicist to the stars. Isn't that you, rob Shooter?

1301
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:24,840
Speaker 13: That's I've been called that, Nancy Esam.

1302
01:21:26,080 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 1: Okay. And your advice is follow your heart. That's your advice.

1303
01:21:30,680 --> 01:21:30,880
Speaker 4: Good.

1304
01:21:31,000 --> 01:21:32,000
Speaker 1: You can pay money for.

1305
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:35,559
Speaker 13: That, really good advice because everybody wants to speak. When

1306
01:21:35,600 --> 01:21:38,759
Speaker 13: I got into crisis management, part one of the hardest

1307
01:21:38,760 --> 01:21:41,519
Speaker 13: things to teach people was to let it go. You

1308
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:45,400
Speaker 13: do not have to respond to every single critic out there.

1309
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:48,439
Speaker 13: They won't be remembered in the moment. Right now we're

1310
01:21:48,479 --> 01:21:50,760
Speaker 13: talking about them, but two three years from now, we

1311
01:21:50,840 --> 01:21:54,360
Speaker 13: will be talking about how Savannah handled this with grace

1312
01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:57,680
Speaker 13: and dignity and where her life is then. So I

1313
01:21:57,760 --> 01:21:59,920
Speaker 13: know it just sounds flippant. I know it sounds like

1314
01:22:00,080 --> 01:22:02,759
Speaker 13: the obvious, but try and do it yourself. If somebody

1315
01:22:02,760 --> 01:22:05,360
Speaker 13: comes at you at Twitter, try not respond in it's

1316
01:22:05,360 --> 01:22:07,680
Speaker 13: a real skill, and I think it's a skill that

1317
01:22:07,760 --> 01:22:08,439
Speaker 13: Savannah has.

1318
01:22:08,520 --> 01:22:09,000
Speaker 3: Mascot.

1319
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:14,719
Speaker 1: I usually just say thanks for watching, because what else

1320
01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:19,759
Speaker 1: can you say. So your advice is follow your heart. Also,

1321
01:22:20,720 --> 01:22:26,360
Speaker 1: don't engage in warfare with battle with the haters, because

1322
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:30,120
Speaker 1: you know, nobody's paying me thousands of dollars for this advice,

1323
01:22:30,200 --> 01:22:32,519
Speaker 1: like they pay you, Rob Shooter. But I would say

1324
01:22:33,720 --> 01:22:37,880
Speaker 1: engaging with them is like mud wrestling with a pig.

1325
01:22:38,640 --> 01:22:43,280
Speaker 1: You get dirty and the pig likes it. So don't

1326
01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:46,960
Speaker 1: do it. Another thing too, doctor, and you can use

1327
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:49,960
Speaker 1: that if you want to, and you can get good

1328
01:22:50,080 --> 01:22:53,400
Speaker 1: money for that, Rob Shooter Bethy Marshall. On top of

1329
01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:59,920
Speaker 1: everything else that she's dealing with, I think she's trying

1330
01:22:59,920 --> 01:23:03,040
Speaker 1: to compartmentalize, which is a ploy of mine. Maybe I'm

1331
01:23:03,080 --> 01:23:06,160
Speaker 1: projecting that one. It's just too much to think about

1332
01:23:06,479 --> 01:23:09,720
Speaker 1: do something else, put that over there, and focus on this,

1333
01:23:10,320 --> 01:23:17,080
Speaker 1: and by achieving something, you slowly in the back of

1334
01:23:17,120 --> 01:23:21,559
Speaker 1: your mind process everything that's happened. She was attacked. She's

1335
01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:24,639
Speaker 1: being attacked for even mentioning going back to work. Then

1336
01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:28,799
Speaker 1: how did this happen? Doctor Bethany that when the haters

1337
01:23:28,840 --> 01:23:31,559
Speaker 1: saw a video of her having a little mini reunion.

1338
01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:33,840
Speaker 1: She went back to thank everyone of the Today Show

1339
01:23:33,880 --> 01:23:36,640
Speaker 1: set for their support. That seemed to throw gas on

1340
01:23:36,680 --> 01:23:40,639
Speaker 1: the fire. Why did that inflame so many people those

1341
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:41,360
Speaker 1: photos of her?

1342
01:23:42,520 --> 01:23:45,360
Speaker 12: Because Nancy, they can see that she's loved, and that

1343
01:23:46,520 --> 01:23:49,760
Speaker 12: triggers the envy as well. If she has something good,

1344
01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:53,040
Speaker 12: it means that my life is miserable. But you know, Nancy,

1345
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:57,280
Speaker 12: the number one thing I tell trauma victims, and I

1346
01:23:57,360 --> 01:24:01,840
Speaker 12: work with trauma patients, is to reass establish their regular routine.

1347
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:04,880
Speaker 12: I get very basic with them. Nancy. First of all,

1348
01:24:05,400 --> 01:24:10,840
Speaker 12: validate their feelings. Of course, this is horrible, tragic, terrifying.

1349
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:14,240
Speaker 12: She must be preoccupied with her mother. So validate the feelings.

1350
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:18,120
Speaker 12: Then I tell them to drink water. It's that basic, Nancy,

1351
01:24:18,600 --> 01:24:21,240
Speaker 12: to practice what we call sleep hygiene. To go to

1352
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:22,960
Speaker 12: bed at the same time and get up at the

1353
01:24:22,960 --> 01:24:27,400
Speaker 12: same time every morning, open all the windows and open

1354
01:24:27,439 --> 01:24:30,920
Speaker 12: the curtains in the morning so that she can get sunshine.

1355
01:24:30,960 --> 01:24:33,720
Speaker 12: And then go back to your regular routine where there's

1356
01:24:33,760 --> 01:24:37,920
Speaker 12: structure and where there is social support. These people have

1357
01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:42,160
Speaker 12: been her friends and her professional family for many, many

1358
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:45,920
Speaker 12: many years. She probably does not have that kind of

1359
01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:50,200
Speaker 12: support in Arizona, where her mom, Where her mom is,

1360
01:24:50,520 --> 01:24:53,040
Speaker 12: so she needs to go back to the people who

1361
01:24:53,080 --> 01:24:57,680
Speaker 12: love her and who can listen to her. Trauma patients

1362
01:24:57,760 --> 01:25:00,400
Speaker 12: also have to talk about what happened to of them

1363
01:25:00,760 --> 01:25:03,959
Speaker 12: as they are ready. Don't ask them too many questions

1364
01:25:04,000 --> 01:25:08,439
Speaker 12: because it will trigger anxiety and trauma and stress. But

1365
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:10,639
Speaker 12: they have to know that there's a listening ear there

1366
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:13,720
Speaker 12: somewhere so they can talk about their experience. That's what

1367
01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:16,160
Speaker 12: she has with her husband and with her friends in

1368
01:25:16,160 --> 01:25:18,320
Speaker 12: New York City and with the Today Show.

1369
01:25:18,840 --> 01:25:21,800
Speaker 1: Joining us now in addition to doctor Bethany Marshall and

1370
01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:28,519
Speaker 1: Gary to the Stars PR celebrity rob shooter Dave mac

1371
01:25:28,640 --> 01:25:32,519
Speaker 1: joining me Crime Stories investigative reporter. There have been so

1372
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:37,679
Speaker 1: many attacks on her. Remember the attacks regarding the ransom.

1373
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:41,240
Speaker 2: Well, Nancy, The attacks about not paying the ransom really

1374
01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:44,120
Speaker 2: go back to things that we are not privy to

1375
01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:48,640
Speaker 2: information between law enforcement and the Guthrie family because we

1376
01:25:48,880 --> 01:25:53,080
Speaker 2: don't know the veracity of these claims these ransom demands.

1377
01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:57,639
Speaker 2: The family does, and the family, from what we look

1378
01:25:57,680 --> 01:26:02,320
Speaker 2: at on these videos, they're responding as they're being I'm

1379
01:26:02,320 --> 01:26:06,160
Speaker 2: guessing told to respond. This is something that they're doing

1380
01:26:06,200 --> 01:26:08,679
Speaker 2: in a vacuum. They actually have a lot of people

1381
01:26:08,800 --> 01:26:12,120
Speaker 2: beending their explaining what to do. I mean, who goes

1382
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:15,520
Speaker 2: through a kidnapping on a regular basis, So the experts

1383
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:18,400
Speaker 2: are leaning on the family explaining what to do and

1384
01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:22,519
Speaker 2: how to do it, and I'm guessing they're following that instruction.

1385
01:26:22,680 --> 01:26:27,679
Speaker 1: Dave Mac. The haters online have even attacked Savannah Guthrie

1386
01:26:27,880 --> 01:26:32,360
Speaker 1: as it relates to her husband, claiming that somehow his

1387
01:26:32,680 --> 01:26:36,760
Speaker 1: job has triggered the kidnap of her eighty four year

1388
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:39,040
Speaker 1: old mother in the middle of the desert. Listen to this,

1389
01:26:39,120 --> 01:26:42,639
Speaker 1: Dave Mac. Her husband, his last name is Filman.

1390
01:26:43,479 --> 01:26:46,479
Speaker 14: He worked for the Clintons the eight years they were

1391
01:26:46,520 --> 01:26:53,120
Speaker 14: in office. Okay, he started a company buck called Grover Park.

1392
01:26:54,160 --> 01:26:58,040
Speaker 14: Basically what they were they were scrubbers. They would scrub

1393
01:26:58,080 --> 01:27:04,040
Speaker 14: the Internet of any bad, anything bad that they did

1394
01:27:04,080 --> 01:27:07,240
Speaker 14: not want the public to find out. They would scrape

1395
01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:10,120
Speaker 14: the whole Internet so where when you did a search,

1396
01:27:10,840 --> 01:27:14,360
Speaker 14: you couldn't find out anything about it. How much you

1397
01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:18,040
Speaker 14: want to bet, because the Clintons are going in front

1398
01:27:18,080 --> 01:27:22,479
Speaker 14: of Congress that they struck out to this guy because

1399
01:27:22,560 --> 01:27:23,960
Speaker 14: he was there cleaner.

1400
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:25,679
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.

1401
01:27:25,760 --> 01:27:29,920
Speaker 1: Now, okay, I could listen to her all day long, okay,

1402
01:27:30,040 --> 01:27:33,439
Speaker 1: And she's taken a lot of correct facts and woven

1403
01:27:33,560 --> 01:27:36,599
Speaker 1: them together with this theory that is proud Shrimp, her

1404
01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:41,759
Speaker 1: daughter on TikTok to Rob Shooter joining us Rob. There

1405
01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:45,960
Speaker 1: have also been attacks on Savannah's looks described.

1406
01:27:46,479 --> 01:27:50,120
Speaker 13: Yeah, people have gone after her for not wearing enough makeup,

1407
01:27:50,360 --> 01:27:55,040
Speaker 13: not looking sad enough, not acting like she's riddled with grief.

1408
01:27:55,479 --> 01:27:57,960
Speaker 13: And there we see Savannah. She looks very different there

1409
01:27:58,000 --> 01:27:59,960
Speaker 13: than what we used to seeing her on the Today Show.

1410
01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:02,879
Speaker 13: And I think people might find that a little jarring

1411
01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:05,479
Speaker 13: when they see somebody that normally comes into their living

1412
01:28:05,560 --> 01:28:08,519
Speaker 13: room five days a week looking different. People have had

1413
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:11,880
Speaker 13: a lot of questions about that. There she is without

1414
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:14,400
Speaker 13: a professional hair and makeup person. She does not have

1415
01:28:14,439 --> 01:28:19,000
Speaker 13: a hairdresser with her in Arizona. She can't win here, Nancy.

1416
01:28:19,080 --> 01:28:22,280
Speaker 13: Had she traveled to Arizona with a glam squad, had

1417
01:28:22,320 --> 01:28:25,160
Speaker 13: she made these videos when she was in full hair

1418
01:28:25,200 --> 01:28:28,760
Speaker 13: and makeup, then she would have criticism about doing that too.

1419
01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:32,400
Speaker 13: And so my heartbreaks for Savannah here because there's always

1420
01:28:32,439 --> 01:28:34,800
Speaker 13: going to be people that are going to criticize her.

1421
01:28:35,080 --> 01:28:38,759
Speaker 13: There she is again with her sister and her brother.

1422
01:28:39,160 --> 01:28:41,599
Speaker 13: And she's not looking like she looks on the Today Show,

1423
01:28:41,640 --> 01:28:45,120
Speaker 13: and she shouldn't look like that either. This is raw Savannah.

1424
01:28:45,160 --> 01:28:48,000
Speaker 13: This is not the Savannah that we see on any news.

1425
01:28:48,280 --> 01:28:50,759
Speaker 13: This is real life Savannah. And I think we should

1426
01:28:50,760 --> 01:28:52,840
Speaker 13: all cut her a break. A lot of people out

1427
01:28:52,840 --> 01:28:56,720
Speaker 13: there are confused by this. I want to give them

1428
01:28:56,720 --> 01:28:59,400
Speaker 13: the benefit of the dad here, but it's cruel. It's

1429
01:28:59,400 --> 01:29:03,200
Speaker 13: really cruel. Only silver lining here, Nancy. And you know

1430
01:29:03,240 --> 01:29:06,040
Speaker 13: Savannah too, is she's a really strong person, and she

1431
01:29:06,120 --> 01:29:09,599
Speaker 13: has a really strong faith, and as upsetting as this is,

1432
01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:11,759
Speaker 13: she'll get through it. She's gonna be okay.

1433
01:29:12,439 --> 01:29:17,400
Speaker 11: It's to whoever has her or knows where she is

1434
01:29:20,439 --> 01:29:33,640
Speaker 11: that it's never too late, and you're not past or alone,

1435
01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:37,760
Speaker 11: and it is never too late to do the right thing.

1436
01:29:39,960 --> 01:29:48,280
Speaker 11: And we are here. We believe, and we believe in

1437
01:29:48,320 --> 01:29:55,240
Speaker 11: the essential goodness of every human being, and it's never

1438
01:29:55,320 --> 01:29:55,680
Speaker 11: too late.

1439
01:29:56,240 --> 01:29:59,840
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about missus

1440
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:03,599
Speaker 1: Guthrie's disappearance, please call one eight hundred two two five

1441
01:30:03,840 --> 01:30:08,639
Speaker 1: five three two four or five two zero eight eight

1442
01:30:08,720 --> 01:30:13,240
Speaker 1: two seven four sixty three. If you wish to remain anonymous.

1443
01:30:14,040 --> 01:30:18,640
Speaker 1: There is a one point two plus million dollar reward

1444
01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:23,719
Speaker 1: for information leading to Nancy's whereabouts. Thank you to our guest,

1445
01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:27,040
Speaker 1: but especially thank you to you for being with us

1446
01:30:27,080 --> 01:30:33,000
Speaker 1: tonight and keeping the search for Nancy Guthrie alive. Nancy

1447
01:30:33,000 --> 01:30:37,880
Speaker 1: Gray signing off for tonight. Good night friend,