1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so 3 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Room, Room, Room. Let's hear it 4 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: for our super producer, mister Max Williams b Beef how 5 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: kowk Max. 6 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 2: The Pit, the Human Pit Crew Williams. 7 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: Max, the Bootleg Williams Moonshine Williams. 8 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, I hope these things are going to figure 9 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 2: into our story. 10 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: Ben, guess that absolutely never happening. Time I've been bullying. 11 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: You'reed old Brown. 12 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 2: We got some big NASCAR energy. I think we're all 13 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 2: still fired up from that cage fight at the White House. 14 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 2: Yes we no no. 15 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 3: Cheering for rain. 16 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: Which cage fight are you guys talking about? You know, 17 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: the whole past few years have been a cage fighter, 18 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: That's true. 19 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,119 Speaker 2: This is the one in the claw in the octagon 20 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 2: right generated some very surreal photographs. Let's just say, like 21 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 2: the White House framed by an octagon ring with motocross 22 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 2: people leaping in criss cross directions and jets flying overhead. 23 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 2: It's the most delightfully idiocracy thing I've ever seen. Delightfully 24 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 2: is the wrong choice of words. But we are not 25 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 2: a political podcast, but we are gonna down the line 26 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 2: get to talk about some ridiculous history about the time 27 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 2: we're living in currently. 28 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: Yes, that is true. As long as this show continues, 29 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: we we have Yeah, we like many Americans, have a 30 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: lot of opinions, and I'd like to think a lot 31 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: of self awareness about the things that make this country 32 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: so lovable, so endearing, and so ridiculous. One of the 33 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: Internet's new favorite things right now is the World Cup 34 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: takes place in the US. Is seeing Europeans in particular 35 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: encounter American culture. There's a German guy I'm absolutely in 36 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: love with because he went to laffle house. 37 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 2: That's what it was. It was a waffle house and 38 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 2: maybe an I hoop as well. 39 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: He's running, he's running the numbers on all the stuff 40 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: he read about or saw short clips of online. We've 41 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: also got some great Brits who are having the time 42 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: of their lives in Atlanta, so welcome. 43 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 2: Love to see it. I saw some other fun ones 44 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 2: where it was like, oh, BUCkies has been coming up 45 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 2: a lot, what is this majesty? That is BUCkies? This 46 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,519 Speaker 2: is this is a gas station to it some eagle 47 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 2: eyed and Bucky enthusiast comments. Commentaries responded, it's more than 48 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 2: a gas station. Yeah, it's a way of life. 49 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,959 Speaker 1: It's an experience. It's a bit of a secular hajj. 50 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: You're in the here in the southeastern United States. 51 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 2: All hail Booky. 52 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: Also shout out to everybody, as I'm thinking, especially of you, 53 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: my far flung European and Asiatic friends. Yeah, the free 54 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: refills are a thing I told you anyway, walked. As 55 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: are the giant cups, As are the giant cups, the 56 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: big gulps. There's another thoroughly American thing called Nascar. That's 57 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: what this episode is about. If we put on our 58 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: car stuff hats, and thanks to our double Dragon of 59 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: Research Associate Association here are pal Zach and our own 60 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: Max Williams, we are diving into Nascar. It occupies this 61 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: weird space in the American consciousness because it's seen is 62 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: as classic as a hot dog, for instance, or apple pie. 63 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: But but there are people who will tell you it 64 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: is the best sport, and there are people will tell 65 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: you it is not a sport at all. 66 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 2: Well, Ben, I mean this obviously harkens back to for 67 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 2: me anyway, the days of car stuff with our buddy 68 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 2: Scott Benjamin. I do believe that y'all talked about like 69 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 2: some big races like the Lemons and some of those classic, 70 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 2: you know, tour type car races that were maybe seen 71 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 2: as a little more European than what NASCAR has become. 72 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 2: But it had to have been in some ways like 73 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 2: spiritual successor right. 74 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, the history, and I appreciate that shout out the 75 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: history of racing is phenomenal because essentially, and you don't 76 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: have to be a gearhead to know this, but essentially, folks, 77 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: as soon as the motor vehicle was invented, and as 78 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 1: soon as more more than one rich person or crazy 79 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:07,799 Speaker 1: Tony Stark level inventor goodbye one people started racing cars 80 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: and NASCAR descends exactly as you said, from that. It's 81 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 1: it's a huge deal. If you go back to just 82 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 1: last year, twenty twenty five, you'll see that the National 83 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 1: Association for Stock Car Auto Racing had a revenue of 84 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: one point seven billion dollars in twenty twenty four. This 85 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 1: happens across twenty seven North American cities. NASCAR, we could argue, 86 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: became a sport via convenience, and this is something we're 87 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: all familiar with. If we tuned into car stuff, Nascar 88 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: has some murky origins. We're talking to shout out ASoP rock. 89 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 2: Here. 90 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: We're talking fastcars, danger, fire and knives. We're also talking bootlegging, 91 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: smuggling booze during Prohibition. 92 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 2: One hundred percent, which certainly would have required some crafty 93 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 2: vehicle modifications, right. 94 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: Absolutely, And that's the cloud at list level, recurring soul 95 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: of Nascar if we go to. 96 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 2: Yes, so interesting. I never would have thought. I've been 97 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 2: a little bit invested in the idea of car modifications 98 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 2: through this other podcast project that I'm working on about 99 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 2: human trafficking in Germany across the Berlin Wall during the 100 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 2: Cold War, and it involved a lot of real creative 101 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 2: uses of mini coopers and hollowing out certain electrical components, 102 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: compartments and things like that to make room for humans. 103 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 2: So certainly similar concepts here. 104 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah. And it's a concept that we the idea 105 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: of fighting a sort of Garia war of loopholes and 106 00:06:54,600 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: innovations versus a larger system. It happens in NASCAR today. 107 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 1: If you want to learn more about this and similar races, 108 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: check out an awesome new podcast we have out on 109 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: iHeart now called no Grip, which focuses on F one 110 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: or Formula one racing. We have to give a big, 111 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: big thanks to our recurring vicarious guest, Christopher Klein, who 112 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: wrote an awesome article for History called how Prohibition led 113 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: to the Creation of NASCAR. And so what we need 114 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: to realize is there is an historical we can trace Nascar. Right. 115 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: You can't trace every sport or every invention to its 116 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: origin point. But if you see folks like Junior Johnson, 117 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: who is who not I know. 118 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 2: And not to be confused with Big Johnson. 119 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: And not not to be confused with Junior Johnson, Junior, 120 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: they are Junior Johnson, Junior the third. So it's a 121 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: it's a weird name. It's it's very it's very much 122 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: like a major major major in Catch twenty two by 123 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: Joseph Heller. But we know that this guy Junior Johnson, 124 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: and it is his real name. He kept returning home 125 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: even after five victories on the NASCAR circuit. He kept 126 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: returning home in the nineteen fifties in North Carolina to 127 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: work on his real job, his family business, which was 128 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: not a mechanics garage, It was moonshining, which work in 129 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: the still yeah, making alcoholic beverages, some of which are 130 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: not going to kill you or make you go blind. 131 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. 132 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 2: Right. They've been doing this since the good old days 133 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: of the Whiskey Rebellion. 134 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: And just so with your upcoming with your upcoming long 135 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: form podcasts, which are very excited about. I've heard a 136 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: little bit of the music and I'd love to hear more. Noel, 137 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: can we reveal the name of the show? 138 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, it's called Final Blow and it actually is. 139 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 2: It going to come out early twenty twenty seven, So 140 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 2: we're still chipping away at it, but it's a really 141 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 2: cool project and working on the music and also hosting. 142 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 2: So thanks thanks for mentioning it. Ben. 143 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: I think this is our first on air reveal of 144 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: a show that we're all quite excited about, So thank 145 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: you for that, Nol, of course, and we know that 146 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: the reason I'm saying this is similar to the Berlin 147 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 1: Wall situations of smuggling is that Junior Johnson and people 148 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: like him, dating back to the Whiskey Rebellion, they were 149 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: smuggling hooch in their cars, in their vehicles and whatever 150 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: those vehicles at the time were. They had three things 151 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 1: in mind. One they got to carry all this illegal merch, 152 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: which is basically what it is, cargo. And then two 153 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: they've gone for band. They've got to be faster than 154 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: the law, and they have to be more nimble than 155 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: the law, especially when you're in the hollers and the mountains. 156 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: So this guy would pack so many cases of what 157 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: Christopher Klein loosely refers to his hooch inside his house 158 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: when he was growing up, that he had to climb 159 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: over stacks of illegal booze and moonshine just to go 160 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: to bed every night because his household bedroom was a 161 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: storage area for their weird, their weird anti government booze trade. 162 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: His family farm got raided. They arrested his dad, you know. 163 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that sure did. They confiscated the whiskey, put 164 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 2: his dad in cuffs, and it seemed like a real 165 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 2: inauspicious ending to quite a lucrative legacy. 166 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: And Johnson grew from this. He would grow to become 167 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: a NASCAR Hall of Famer, which is a huge achievement. 168 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 2: Pivot. 169 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, he became a team owner for NASCAR. And this 170 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: is a true story. It's a bit ridiculous. He discovered 171 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: his talent as a driver because he was running moonshine 172 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: as a teen he was smuggling it as a teenager, 173 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: and he says, quote, moonshining was part of my growing up, 174 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: but it was also part of my training in auto racing. 175 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: He said this much later in nineteen nineties speaking to 176 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: the Saint Louis Post dispatch. 177 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 2: Indeed he did, and he went on saying, being in 178 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 2: that business, you had to have a very fast car 179 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 2: and you had to be able to outrun the revenuers. 180 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 2: The revenuers that's a new one on me, or you know, 181 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 2: I got it. It's just a fun one. Or highway 182 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 2: patrol or sheriff or whoever tried to pursue you, to 183 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 2: try and apprehend you. This was the beginning of the 184 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 2: prohibition era. The driver's transporting this moonshine from rural areas 185 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 2: like the Hollers we're talking about, or illegally importing alcohol 186 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 2: from Canada. This is like drug running. It's the same 187 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 2: kind of situations. They had to resort to some pretty 188 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 2: clever and resourceful tactics to change their vehicles and modify 189 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 2: their vehicles in order to elude the authorities on these 190 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 2: winding back roads with these switchbacks and hairpin turns. And 191 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 2: if it hadn't been for the whiskey, he said, Nascar 192 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 2: would not have been formed. And that's a fact. 193 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 1: When he said that quotable, he was talking to the 194 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: British broadcasting folks. And also it's kind of like how 195 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: you know, whiskey is terrible for people, but it's also 196 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: the reason we have James Choice. It is the reason 197 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: we have NASCAR. So stock car racing has its roots 198 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: in Appalachia, where producing and selling homemade whiskey essentially it 199 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: helped people escape crippling poverty up there with hunting Gensen 200 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: later on. This especially came to the four during the 201 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: Great Depression, which hit an already impoverished area of the 202 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: US particularly hard. I actually I am related to people 203 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: who have done who have had moonshine stills historically, and 204 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: now the heat's the heats a little off them. I 205 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: think we have bigger fish to fry and things to 206 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: worry about here. But were these people who were making this. 207 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: They weren't just a bunch of like problematic fun frat bros. 208 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: They were doing this as a means of income to survive. 209 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: So it reminds us again of how prohibition ultimately became 210 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: a huge, huge revenue stream for organized crime and expanded 211 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 1: their portfolio. Those folks like the Campone mafia esque types, 212 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: they made a ton of money institutionalizing this illegal trade. However, 213 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: the people who live in these oft ignored parts of 214 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: the United States, they're not becoming millionaires off this. They're 215 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: not becoming millionaires off illegal booze. They're being able to 216 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: do things like keep the house and feed their kids. 217 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 2: Totally, and they're also not particularly stoked about giving up 218 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 2: any of their revenue to Uncle Sam right. 219 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: Right exactly, even post prohibition. So if we go to 220 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: folks like NASCAR Hall of Famer Curtis Turner, he points out, 221 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: those were hard times back in the hills, mean the 222 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: hollers and you know the rural areas. Everybody check out 223 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: American Hollow by one of the Kennedy kids. It's a 224 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: phenomenal documentary. It's hard to find now. They said, you 225 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: did things you shouldn't do to get by this guy. 226 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: Turner is interesting for us because, according to NASCAR dot Com, 227 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: he got into the bootlegging game when he was get 228 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: this guy's nine years old, so it's child labor as well. 229 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: We're not saying it's perfect. 230 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 2: No, no, not not perfect to say the least. So 231 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 2: one thing that is super important to consider when talking 232 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 2: about the idea of a stock car, which again you 233 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 2: can really dig into some more information about that by 234 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 2: listening to the back catalog of car stuff. I can't 235 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 2: recommend enough. It's the idea that the car is supposed 236 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 2: to look like a standard stock vehicle. However, under the 237 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 2: hood there's different stuff going on. Yeah. 238 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, And we have to point out, for anny, as 239 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: to ridiculous historians who are clocking our mention of Prohibition, 240 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: Appalachian moonshining continued after Prohibition because, like Noel, you were saying, 241 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: people wanted to evade these very punishing vice taxes from 242 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,119 Speaker 1: the federal level, and there were a lot of counties 243 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: that continued prohibition on a local municipal level. We also 244 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: want to give a shout out to a guy named 245 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: Neil Thompson, the author of Driving with the Devil, Southern 246 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: Moonshine Detroit Wheels in the Booth of Nascar, which weirdly 247 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: sounds like it's a mixtape about Nascar. You nailed it. 248 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,119 Speaker 1: Stock car means it needs to look like a factory 249 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: issue car. The Prohibition Museum says they would keep the 250 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: standard exterior right, it would look ordinary on the outside, 251 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: but they modified the heck out of the engine for 252 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: greater speed. They got rid of the floorboards, they got 253 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: rid of the passenger seat, the back seat, and they 254 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 1: did the dead weight right right, and they replaced it 255 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: all with cases of moonshine, and then they had to 256 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: put in extra springs to handle the weight. They would 257 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 1: try to. They were very good at finding all the 258 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 1: back roads, and part of their success was that there 259 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: was no great surveillance state, not to the level we 260 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: have now, so if you could get the dirt road, 261 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 1: you could get past the cops. 262 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 2: Well, it's like that. We always joke about how so 263 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,479 Speaker 2: many plots of nineties movies would have been completely rendered 264 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 2: null and void if there had been cell phones, the 265 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 2: Seinfeld problem, the Seinfel problem. That is also the case 266 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 2: with a lot of historical shenanigans that would have been 267 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 2: completely impossible to pull off today with the flock cameras 268 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 2: of it all, or even you know, just CCTV and 269 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 2: just the you know, it's a lot harder to get 270 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 2: away with this kind of stuff. In the lo Fi 271 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 2: thrifty fashion that we're talking. 272 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: About exactly and well said. I mean, think about it 273 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: this way, fellow ridiculous historians. We know that a lot 274 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 1: of the world's most successful cartel leaders, most successful cocaine, fentanyl, 275 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: or heroin dealers, are not themselves consumers of that product. 276 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: That's actually if you get involved in a criminal empire, 277 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 1: that makes you a really good hire because the guy 278 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: who did the most for bootlegging, accidentally is the legendarily 279 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: problematic Henry Ford of Ford fame. He was a devout teetotler, 280 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: which means he doesn't drink, but his Ford V eight 281 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: was the engine that drove moonshining ever since it debuted 282 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty two. 283 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and just to buck contract to what you're saying about, 284 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 2: but peddlers not dipping into their own stuff. It is 285 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 2: the origin of the term never get high on your 286 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 2: own supply, or speaking negatively of someone saying they're getting 287 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 2: high on their own supply also kind of a stand 288 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 2: in for just being a little full of yourself, right, Yeah. 289 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, everybody's got their own journey. They're the main 290 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 1: character in their own story, So you know, treat all 291 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: those situations diplomatically and don't snitch. 292 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 2: No, there's another expression. Snitches, you know, get shanked in prison. 293 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 2: Now that's not how it goes, but you get the idea. Bootleggers, though, 294 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 2: had experimented with various models of car over time, but 295 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 2: they were never quite fast enough. And this is according 296 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 2: to Thompson. But Ford, to your point, been accidentally, for 297 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 2: better or worse, created the perfect moonshine vehicle, the Ford 298 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 2: V eight. This was, you know, still known and revered 299 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 2: to this day. There was an engine that came out 300 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 2: that could match what they needed out of a car. 301 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 2: It was fast enough to stay one step ahead of 302 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 2: the law, he said, rugged enough for the mountain rows, 303 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 2: and had a big enough trunk and back seat to 304 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 2: squeeze in all the moonshine they could handle. 305 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, especially if you took out that shotgun seat in 306 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: that backseat that vaccat area. So we know that very 307 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: very smart mechanics also figured out how to soup up 308 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: the Ford V eight so they could get a few 309 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: extra miles per every hour of speed, and that makes 310 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: a huge difference in car chases, especially if they are 311 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: prolonged chases. So to further elude these revenue agents and 312 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: the police, they tricked their They tricked their rides out 313 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: with all sorts of looking for the right comparison inspector, 314 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:52,120 Speaker 1: gadget ooh a better one, James Bond level spy movie 315 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: meets acme Looney Tunes devices. So you could push a 316 00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:00,439 Speaker 1: button and you could release a bunch of oil. The 317 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: cars behind you would slide on it. Or you could 318 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: release tax that would puncture the tires of the tax man. 319 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: Tax tac ks versus tax man, tax man. And then 320 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: they even add smoke screens. I don't know how effective 321 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: those would be. I don't know how effective a smoke 322 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,640 Speaker 1: screen from a car, a driving car is in real life. 323 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 2: Well smoke, I will say, though, Ben, we are talking 324 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 2: about real scary winding back rows, switchbacks and switchback. So 325 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 2: maybe you know there is a particular deployable item in 326 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 2: Mario Kart that is a squid who will spray your 327 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 2: enemies with ink and uh and make it where they 328 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,679 Speaker 2: can't see where they're going. And that's one of my 329 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 2: least favorite ones. That'll cause me to wreck or you know, 330 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 2: right off the road if in a dangerous enough what's. 331 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: Your favorite one? What's your opinion on the Blueeshell? 332 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,360 Speaker 2: The blueeshell is the great equalizer. Will we all hate 333 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 2: getting it? There is something about it that is a 334 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 2: very cool leveler of play in terms of what makes 335 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 2: Mario Kart about exciting. 336 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, and I love all the new things you 337 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: can get in the latest Mario Kart. 338 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 2: There's some fun new ones. Some of them are a 339 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 2: little underwhelming, but I do like that you can go 340 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,719 Speaker 2: in and decide which items you use or don't use, 341 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 2: or which are available, and it is real fun to do. 342 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 2: Like a match where only blueshells are available. It's total 343 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 2: glutton for punishment type behavior, but it makes things absolutely 344 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 2: chaos and it's a lot of fun. 345 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: And with this, just like in Mario Kart it the 346 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: stats of the car do matter. The stats of the 347 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: vehicle matter, but more importantly, you have to look at 348 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 1: the acumen of the person driving the vehicle. So these 349 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,360 Speaker 1: folks who are not called racers yet they're called runners, 350 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: they needed incredibly high level driving skills to maneuver along 351 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 1: things that would swing from paved roads to single lane 352 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: to double lane to gravel. They'd be driving after dark 353 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: and sometimes they had to have their headlights off. So 354 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 1: just like NASCAR drivers today or I should say Lemon 355 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 1: is a better comparison. They had to memorize the track 356 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: because you know, it's not that difficult to memorize a 357 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: NASCAR track because you just sort of go left, yeah. 358 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 2: Exactly left left forever. 359 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. They also we see the origins or the precedent 360 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: of what we call a pit crew today. They needed 361 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: support staff to keep their cars running in top shape. 362 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: So if you were a good mechanic in a struggling 363 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: town that happened to be along a fortuitous route for 364 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 1: these moonshiners, they would approach you like Cia Cia finding 365 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: academic style. They would say, I hear you real good 366 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: under the hood. I need something that could run fast. 367 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: I need something that weighs less. I know, we both 368 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 1: hate the cops and the revenue man. 369 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 2: The revenuers, as he said previously, I love that man. 370 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 2: I love that. 371 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: So now we have fastcars, we've got drivers who are 372 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: cut above civilian motorists, and we have a small cadre 373 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: of phenomenal, if ethically fraught mechanics, not saying all mechanics 374 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: are bad. And these fellas were not going to wait 375 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: until prohibition ended to make some money, right, and this 376 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: we have to also remember this is largely a cash 377 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: economy in this area. So if you have the cash 378 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: and you don't trust the bank because of what all 379 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: the shenanigans of the depression, then you're walking away with 380 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: thirty forty percent more than you would have had if 381 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: the cops had caught you. So we we have these 382 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: we have this awesome, if illegal situation. And of course, 383 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: of course we have to remember that we are talking 384 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: about very small, often isolated, rural areas, so everybody in 385 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: town knows everybody else, and they know who's got the 386 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: fastest car. So it should be no surprise that during 387 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties these excellent teams, not just not just 388 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: the guys driving and they were pretty much all guys, 389 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 1: but their entire support staff becomes a little bit famous. 390 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: They become locally famous, like when we hang out at 391 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: the local our favorite chicken wing spot. So they began 392 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: to race what they were calling whiskey cars at the 393 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: local fair and at racetracks, and they said, holy crap, 394 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: look at this. People are paying us not the smuggle 395 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,239 Speaker 1: illegal poison like alcohol. Now they're paying us just to 396 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 1: watch how good we are driving, just to drive fast, 397 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: just to drive fast. 398 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 2: Heck, yeah, sounds like fun. I mean they already have 399 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 2: the skill set. I mean, why not let's go let's 400 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 2: go legit. Yeah. 401 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: And this is yeah, like you said earlier, this is 402 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: a pivot because we know that by this point in 403 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties, a lot of mechanics, car owners, fair 404 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: ground promoters, and people who own racetracks, they already had 405 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: pretty deep ties in the moonshine business. Right, so now 406 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: they have a legal way to make income. 407 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 2: They got a path towards a a more legitimate business model. 408 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 2: And you know, I mean it's almost like I could 409 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 2: see initially doing this as almost like a like exhibition 410 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,199 Speaker 2: driving where you're showing off the car, right and just 411 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 2: like showing like how how fast it can go. And 412 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 2: then before you know it, this idea of well what 413 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 2: if we pitted the best of the best again to 414 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 2: one another, and then had it become a little bit 415 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 2: more like almost dare we say this is controversial a sport. 416 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 1: Right, right? 417 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:07,640 Speaker 3: Right? 418 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,199 Speaker 1: And as my mother was always fond of saying, not 419 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 1: everything is for everyone. But people loved this. And one 420 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 1: of the people who loves this is a guy named 421 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: Raymond Parks who was historically proven to be the first 422 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:29,880 Speaker 1: guy ever to put together a formal racing team. Parks 423 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: ran away from his home in the mountains of Northern 424 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: Georgia when he was just fourteen years old, and he 425 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 1: took up an apprenticeship. Unlike our pal John Chapman from earlier, 426 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: who learned how to plant apple trees, this guy apprenticed 427 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: to a moonshiner who he met in the county jail. 428 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: We often note that the United States has a problem 429 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: with its incarceration system such that prisons can be sort 430 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:04,360 Speaker 1: of crime university for people. That's what happened here. That's 431 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: exactly what happened here. He's working at a still is 432 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,479 Speaker 1: Raymond Parks. He's hauling corn whiskey around Atlanta, and he 433 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: makes way more money bootlegging than he ever could in 434 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: the rural areas of North Georgia. 435 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 2: This is a classic, you know, bad boys made good 436 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 2: kind of story. You do love to see it, you know. 437 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: Yeah. And he starts investing his money because he's a 438 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: smart boy, and he says, you know, I've got to 439 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: wash it. My money's got me running to the laundry 440 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: like there's something smelly on me. He buys gas stations 441 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: he invests in stock car racing. He doesn't have to 442 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: go too far to find two talented drivers for his 443 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: emergent racing team. His cousins, you see, happened to be 444 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: some of the top moonshine runner in all of Northern Georgia. 445 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: They are doing those switchbacks. We were talking about their 446 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: go at at speed and they're they're like doing eighty 447 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty degree skirt skirt hairpin turns. They're 448 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: still not dead. His cousins Lloyd, Jay and Roy Hall 449 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: are running the game. 450 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 2: Man, I got it. It reminds me back to carstuff again. 451 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 2: I had the pleasure and privilege of going on a 452 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 2: road trip with you and Scott where we participated in 453 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 2: kind of a tour type race. We didn't really try 454 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 2: to compete. We were just trying to, you know, enjoy it, 455 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,479 Speaker 2: and we did a little documentary kind of about it 456 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 2: with our buddy Casey Pegrim. But that is the first 457 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 2: time I ever experienced the kind of mountain hairpin switchback 458 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 2: turns and we were taking them. You know, Scott is well, 459 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 2: I was a bit of a hell raiser. I love. 460 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 2: He wanted to let those ponies ride as we would say, 461 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 2: but I didn't feel unsafe, but I can only imagine 462 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 2: tearing around those those types of super treacherous non you 463 00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 2: know guard railed turns. 464 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, with four GTA cop stars exactly. 465 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 2: Uh yeah. 466 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: I remember West Virginia in particular, right when I was 467 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: we we were we were skirting around with folks who 468 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: lived in the area and had no compunction about taking 469 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: taking a hairpin in excess of eighty miles an hour. 470 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 2: And I apologize he was coming around either. 471 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, well not apologize, but I appreciate, uh, all three 472 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: of you again for listening to me when I was like, 473 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: we need to get at speed, cut the music off 474 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: until this freaking storm passes. Because we were we were 475 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: up there and in there. 476 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 2: It was weird we had and to that point we 477 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 2: had to be able to hear, you know, who was 478 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 2: coming around. That's a bend because you had no you 479 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 2: had no visual on them. 480 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 3: I remember something similar when I drove California one, which 481 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 3: I'm like going, you know, to give these sixty drops 482 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 3: all you picked you and then like right behind you 483 00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 3: is his car is trying to go like fifty and 484 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 3: it's like, oh lord, they must live here because this 485 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 3: is just hair. 486 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: They don't care. Yeah, they're used to catch an air 487 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: on that one hill, right, even in their f one fifties, So. 488 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 2: We hopefully it did not become the hill they died. 489 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: On, right, And that's a nice reference. Luckily, the cousins 490 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: are boy parks Hires. They win the first big stop 491 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: car race in nineteen thirty eight at Atlanta's Lakewood Speedway. 492 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 1: There are twenty thousand people watching this in person, and 493 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: that was that was Lloyd who won that one. The 494 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: other cousin, roy Hole, eventually wins the National stop Car 495 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: Championship in nineteen forty one, and then, you know, students 496 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: of history, it's nineteen forty one. There's a bit of 497 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: a conflict for a time where millions and millions of 498 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: people die. This means stock car racing pauses until September 499 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: nineteen forty five. 500 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 2: We're talking about World War two. And to paraphrase the 501 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 2: words of Daniel S. Pierce from his book Real Nascar, 502 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 2: White Lightning and Red Clay and Big Bill France, at 503 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 2: that aforementioned Atlanta Speedway, which is that Lakewood like what 504 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 2: became Lakewood Amphitheater. Is it in the same must be 505 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 2: in the same zones. I don't know about any Lakewood 506 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 2: speedway that still exists to this day, but a ride anymore. 507 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 2: You got it. So a near riot, you know, erupted 508 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 2: when police banned those fellas who you were talking about 509 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 2: for liquor hauling violations. Thirty thousand rabbit fans chanted for Hall, 510 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 2: who had his driver's license revoked after being arrested no 511 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 2: less than sixteen. 512 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: Times, which is not a bad statistic. Actually even making 513 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: it to five is crazy. 514 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 2: I agree. Yeah. The authorities did, however, relent and let 515 00:32:58,520 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 2: that let that man. 516 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: Race, let those ponies run. But Atlanta did not welcome 517 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: these moonshiners back. The city and the forest did not 518 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: want to be seen as embracing the criminal element. This 519 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: is where enters another stock car driver, a guy named 520 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 1: Bill France, which we just you know, he's in the 521 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: title of that book we just quoted. He started to 522 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: recruit bootleggers or runners to race in Virginia and in 523 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: North and South Carolina. And it's nineteen forty seven, the 524 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: very end of the year when France assembles the leading 525 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: stock car drivers and all those mechanic boffins we're talking about, 526 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 1: and all those money guys the owners who are like 527 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: our EPs. Here. He gets them all together in Daytona Beach, Florida, 528 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: and they say, we're going to. 529 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 2: Have a meeting. 530 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: It's not like a mafia meeting. We're not doing bootlegging anymore. 531 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: It's just the cars. Now, okay, guys, booze is legal, 532 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: So now we're focusing on the car. We're going to 533 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: standardize some rules. This leads to the formation of the 534 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing, which we now 535 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: call NASCAR. 536 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,399 Speaker 2: Yep, the bend off, Mike, we just made a great 537 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,359 Speaker 2: comparison of like mafioso's like in the Sopranos who run 538 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 2: the pork store, or like you know what is it 539 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 2: called sALS Salvator the a front for doing dirty deeds, 540 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,840 Speaker 2: done dirt cheap, but then decided they're just into being butchers. 541 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: You know, like you start a restaurant, the larger money, 542 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:35,359 Speaker 1: and then you say, actually, I really do make a 543 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,320 Speaker 1: good parmesan, you know, chicken, I do make a good pakada. 544 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,800 Speaker 2: I'm passionate about a bolonnaise. 545 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: You know. And guys, we can keep the racketeering and 546 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: the gambling, but just don't mess up my pacada. Okay, 547 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: because we do service at six and my team works 548 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:51,880 Speaker 1: really hard. 549 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 2: They sure do, they sure do. They're family, that's. 550 00:34:55,360 --> 00:35:00,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, a team that Parks put together on 551 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: the first two official NASCAR championships. And if we didn't 552 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:11,760 Speaker 1: have Raymond Park's ill gotten moonshine gains, then we probably 553 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 1: wouldn't have NASCAR in its current form today. But the 554 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,280 Speaker 1: thing is our guy Bill France, who's on this mission 555 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:24,919 Speaker 1: to legitimize racing based on smuggling. He says, I don't 556 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 1: want to have NASCAR associated with this. I want to 557 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 1: distance our pivot from bootlegging. I want us to, you know, 558 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: just be about racing. And eventually this led to internal 559 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: tensions in the crew. It contributed to the decision by 560 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 1: Parks to leave NASCAR and sell off all his own 561 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 1: stock cars in nineteen fifty one. So Parks, who had 562 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: the illegal Money guy, the illegal money ep of this, 563 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: he left and Bill Frank that's took leadership of NASCAR. 564 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: They got a ton of corporate sponsorship. And what are 565 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,759 Speaker 1: the funniest ones is Mountain Dew. 566 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 2: Well, you know, I saw that, Ben, and it made 567 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 2: me think, gosh, Mountain Dew. We've talked about that recently. 568 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 2: And then it occurred to me that we had because 569 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 2: it was originally created as a mixer for whiskey and 570 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 2: then kind of became a like post prohibition not stand 571 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 2: in for whiskey, But it made perfect sense for that 572 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,720 Speaker 2: to be the sponsor, that was the post prohibition flag 573 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 2: bearer for this sport that started during Prohibition and was 574 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 2: so tied to Tennessee whiskey. Yeah, mountain dew, the wholesome whiskey. 575 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: And not especially loving either of those beverages separately. 576 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 2: I like a diet mountain dew from time to time. 577 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 2: But yeah, I hear you, Ben, but could you picture 578 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 2: it with alcohol in it? God? No, okay, no, you 579 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 2: don't do it. I rarely been. Does a whiskey with 580 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,839 Speaker 2: citrus make a lot of sense, sort of an old 581 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 2: fashion with just a little orange peel or an orange 582 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 2: twist or something like that. But yeah, I don't typically 583 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 2: go for a super citrusy whiskey mixer. 584 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: Can you imagine going into like I have to go 585 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,320 Speaker 1: to some fancy places at times? I just I can't 586 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:23,760 Speaker 1: imagine being at Michelin restaurant or at a super duper 587 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: fancy hotel bar and having someone say I'll take your 588 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: finest whiskey and a Mountain dew code red exactly. 589 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,359 Speaker 2: That is taking it up a notch. It does make 590 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,280 Speaker 2: me think of a I think still relatively popular cocktail 591 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 2: at seven and seven, which is like, let's see Seagrums 592 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 2: and seven up. 593 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 1: Oh okay, what is secrums? 594 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:46,759 Speaker 2: Seagrums Gin? 595 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:52,279 Speaker 1: Oh okay, I'm out. That's called Mother's Ruin? Right? Do 596 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,280 Speaker 1: we ever do an episode about Gin? How it wrecked 597 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: the United King? 598 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 2: Holy crap, I'm wrong. It's Seagrum's Crown Whiskey. 599 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:02,840 Speaker 3: I was going to jump in here and be like, 600 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 3: because I was actually. 601 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 2: A citrus whiskey cocktail that is pretty popular. 602 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:07,319 Speaker 1: Well it is. 603 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 3: It's a Canadian whiskey, So Canadian whiskey like a like 604 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 3: a Seagrum seven a Crown Royal Canadian club. Well, actually 605 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 3: we'll actually look, you know, work pretty well with citrus, 606 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 3: but because it's sweeter, yeah, which is even sweeter than 607 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 3: a lot of things will not. 608 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,759 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, Well, I've learned a lot that I 609 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 1: was not, you know, thinking I would learn today, and 610 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,840 Speaker 1: that is one of the great appeals of the show 611 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,799 Speaker 1: for us and hopefully for you fellow ridiculous historians. We 612 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:44,279 Speaker 1: know that Bill France was a visionary, right, he was prescient. 613 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 1: He said, I can develop NASCAR into a friendly sport 614 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 1: for families. We can make more and more money over time, 615 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,399 Speaker 1: and we don't need to break the law to do that. 616 00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 1: We can downplay the connection between our current state and 617 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,320 Speaker 1: our dodgy origin story. 618 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is often, at least in fiction, the dream 619 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 2: of fledgling criminals to go to go straight one day, 620 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 2: one last job and then I'm going legit exactly nice 621 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 2: to see when it actually happens it works out. 622 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, which is what we what we tell ourselves privately 623 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 1: and as a podcast every time, every time we do 624 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:28,799 Speaker 1: an episode. 625 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're in this for the long haul, man. 626 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:38,120 Speaker 1: But the we we do know that they've got to 627 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,760 Speaker 1: just car stuff. Requires me to put this in here, Guys, 628 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:46,800 Speaker 1: we do know that NASCAR and racing in general still 629 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:51,879 Speaker 1: has that fight the system punk rock energy because every 630 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: year the established regulatory bodies f one NASCAR, you name it. 631 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:03,920 Speaker 1: They will have seri of strict rules and constraints about 632 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 1: how a driver can operate, about the technology under the hood, 633 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: about different like very very pedantic things and very specific 634 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: explicit things. And so the job of the team if 635 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,440 Speaker 1: you're racing NASCAR is still to figure out your way 636 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:26,399 Speaker 1: around these rules, legal loopholes, So you're still you're now 637 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: we're no longer smuggling whiskey, I would I would say, 638 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:31,759 Speaker 1: we're smuggling innovation. 639 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 2: Which is like a glueing hot gluing the coin to 640 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 2: the bottom of your Pinewood Derby car. 641 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: Which yeah, until it's illegal by a regulatory body. So 642 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:44,839 Speaker 1: I love the idea of taking smuggling activities and mentality 643 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: and replacing that with not smuggling moonshine, but with smuggling innovation. 644 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,440 Speaker 1: And that is one of the coolest things about NASCAR. 645 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I forgot what else I was going to say, 646 00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:01,759 Speaker 1: but you know, we do know that NASCAR has ethanol 647 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 1: in gas tanks. So that's kind of like movie booze 648 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:08,960 Speaker 1: around mabeoint. 649 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 2: It's a good point. 650 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 1: We know that sa their roots. There we go in 651 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: some way. In twenty seventeen, our buddy Raven Parks gets 652 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:23,880 Speaker 1: inducted into the NASCAR Hall of Fame. Ed NASCAR is finally, 653 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 1: now that they are so established, now that they're a 654 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:30,200 Speaker 1: multi billion dollar business, they're finally a little bit more 655 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 1: comfortable being transparent about their ridiculous origin. 656 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:40,719 Speaker 2: Story their criminal past checkered flags. Indeed, in twenty seventeen, 657 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,839 Speaker 2: Parks was inducted into the NASCAR Hall of Fame, which 658 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:49,800 Speaker 2: does feature an exhibit about the craft of bootlegging along 659 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:54,480 Speaker 2: with a real life, authentic Moonshine still built by our 660 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:56,600 Speaker 2: hero Junior Johnson himself. 661 00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:01,560 Speaker 1: And with that, we hope you enjoyed this episode, folks. 662 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:06,240 Speaker 1: We hope that you drive safely on the road. Remember 663 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:10,239 Speaker 1: GTA five is a video game and should not be 664 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,879 Speaker 1: real life. Also, never drive impaired, even if you've got 665 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:19,080 Speaker 1: a little bit of that Dutch sunshine and confidence in you, 666 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 1: which is a phrase we made up, but it makes sense. 667 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,600 Speaker 2: Wow, booze and driving don't mix unless you're talking about 668 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:27,480 Speaker 2: the history of NASCAR. 669 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,880 Speaker 1: There we go, perfect. Big big thanks to our super 670 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:36,239 Speaker 1: producer and co research associate for this episode, mister Max Williams. 671 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,560 Speaker 1: Big thanks to Alex Williams who composed this track. 672 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 2: M Bang a bot that it is, Chris Frasiotis and 673 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,800 Speaker 2: Eve Jeffcoats. Huge thanks to them for being here in spirit. 674 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 1: We might actually oh here in spirit haha, and we 675 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:55,760 Speaker 1: might actually hear from our buddy Eves a little bit later. 676 00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,520 Speaker 1: In the show as a corresponded. We love it when 677 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,560 Speaker 1: Eves out with us on air and she is currently 678 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 1: traveling the world. She's been in India. She's living in 679 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,720 Speaker 1: joe Burg, Johannesburg, South Africa right now, so maybe she'll 680 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,840 Speaker 1: maybe she'll hit us up with some local history that 681 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:14,759 Speaker 1: she's encountered. 682 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,920 Speaker 2: Mm hmm, badass human indeed, Man, Huge thanks to you, man, 683 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 2: this is fun. 684 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, hey man, huge, thanks to you. Huge thanks Nascar Beat, 685 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,120 Speaker 1: Beep Go Left, Big thanks to aj Bahamas Jacobs, and 686 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,640 Speaker 1: big thanks to you fellow ridiculous historians. 687 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 2: We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 688 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,400 Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 689 00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:44,520 Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.