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Speaker 1: Welcome to season four. Everybody. This is season four of

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Speaker 1: Dear Chelsea. Thank you for helping make us a sweet success. Okay,

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Speaker 1: hello Catherine, Hi Chelsea, Hi, what's well? My god? Season four,

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Speaker 1: so many things have happened.

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 3: I feel like these little communities are for me. People

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Speaker 3: are reaching out to each other. I can't tell you

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Speaker 3: how many times somebody will hear someone call in and

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Speaker 3: they contact me and they'll be like, listen, I have

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Speaker 3: the perfect solution for them, or I can connect them

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Speaker 3: with someone who can help them. And so I passed

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Speaker 3: their little email along and it's just really wonderful.

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Speaker 1: I wish Bernice could call in. Oh my dog, I

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Speaker 1: wish she could call in because I want to know

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Speaker 1: what's on her mind. All I know is all I

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Speaker 1: know is I love her. Ever since Bert passed away,

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Speaker 1: Slash got put down only because it was the end

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Speaker 1: of the road, not because I wanted to get rid

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Speaker 1: of him. Can you imagine if he pissed me off

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Speaker 1: and I just put him down Anyway, Bernice has been

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Speaker 1: a eat hert. Just the last night she was in bed.

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Speaker 1: I usually have to force her up into my bed,

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Speaker 1: which I had to stop doing because she had this

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Speaker 1: really wicked cough. And I say wicked because I'm from

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Speaker 1: Boston and the Boston area, but she had this really

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Speaker 1: wicked cough and I was like, God, is she getting

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Speaker 1: like second hand smoke from all my joints? And then

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Speaker 1: I was like, is she smoking her own joints?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And then I sent her the doctor and they kept giving

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Speaker 1: her cough medicine, cough medicine, and cough pills, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, it's not a cough, it's deeper than that.

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Speaker 1: So then we took her to another VET and they

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Speaker 1: found out that she has a collapsed trachea, which they

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Speaker 1: kind of intimated. Carla, my assistant, kind of tried to

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Speaker 1: make it like it was my fault for picking her

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Speaker 1: up her whole life. And I told Carla to just

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Speaker 1: take it down a notch and shut the front door,

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Speaker 1: because that I don't pick her up by her fucking throat,

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Speaker 1: first of all. Secondly, so now when I go up,

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Speaker 1: she goes up to doggy stairs, I put a leash

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Speaker 1: on her. I guide her up, you know, to trapper

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Speaker 1: like a lobster. But now last night and this has

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Speaker 1: been happening. Yeah, she when I come back for my tour,

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Speaker 1: weekends because you know, I've been on my tour. I

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Speaker 1: come back and she comes, I guide her up the

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Speaker 1: steps and she doesn't go down. Now, oh, she woke

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Speaker 1: up like three times last night and she was like.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I put the light on so she

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Speaker 1: could see the steps so she could go down, you know,

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Speaker 1: to her doggy bed. But then she just looked at me,

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Speaker 1: circled back around, dug her feet in, and went back

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Speaker 1: to sleep. So she's been sleeping with me through the night,

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Speaker 1: which is I've never ever had this experience. When Bert

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Speaker 1: was alive, nice and you know, she again, like any

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Speaker 1: marginalized woman, she has been marginalized. And since Bert is

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Speaker 1: gone and he required so much attention and cuteness and neediness.

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Speaker 4: They get like mad at you, they get I think.

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Speaker 3: Mimsy's like still mad at me, me specifically forgetting these

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Speaker 3: two puppies.

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Speaker 1: She forget mad at you, and I won't. I was

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I got to get another puppy

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Speaker 1: because I like to have two. But I'm going to

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Speaker 1: wait until the fall a because that's irresponsible because I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be traveling a lot during the summer and

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Speaker 1: be I want this time alone with my daughter. Now

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Speaker 1: I understand it's true.

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Speaker 3: Like I definitely feel I have a lot of like

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Speaker 3: mother's guilt of I'm not spending enough time with Mimsy

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Speaker 3: and now that the puppies are like the squeaky wheels

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Speaker 3: in my face all the time. So I'm working on that,

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Speaker 3: like taking her frextra walks, giving her actual love, which

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Speaker 3: she like also sometimes doesn't want because she's like, I

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Speaker 3: just want to like snuggle you, I don't want you

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Speaker 3: to snuggle me back.

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Speaker 1: She's very that.

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Speaker 3: Oh really, yeah, she like wants to be like between

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Speaker 3: your legs, but like she won't be in your front nook.

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Speaker 3: She won't be spooned.

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Speaker 1: She doesn't have a hook. Oh my god, front, she

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Speaker 1: can't be in your front nook. Now translation under your

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Speaker 1: arm everyone, exactly. You didn't see Catherine's gesticulation, so to

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Speaker 1: understand exactly what that meant. Yeah, but I appreciate the

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Speaker 1: one on one time and she's so sweet Bernice, and

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Speaker 1: I just love her so much, and I'm just so

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Speaker 1: grateful that I have dogs. In other non knin news,

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Speaker 1: I got these glasses, these progressive glasses. I got about

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Speaker 1: six pair maid three sunglasses and three regular glasses. And

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Speaker 1: the guy explained to me that the top part is

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Speaker 1: for to see distance, the middle part is to see intermediate.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, what the fuck is intermediate? And the bottom

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Speaker 1: part is for a close up. But when I sit

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Speaker 1: on a plane, if I look down the print on

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Speaker 1: the book because I like to read on my plane rides, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have to hold my head in a certain way

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Speaker 1: so that it makes the print readable. Yeah. And I

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Speaker 1: don't like these. And a lot of people warn me

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Speaker 1: about these, and I'm going to take them all back

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Speaker 1: and have them. I want bifocals, is what I want.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, just two, not three.

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Speaker 1: I don't need three compartments. And by the way, he

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, I put a prescription on the top.

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Speaker 1: I go, there is no prescription on the top. I've

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Speaker 1: had lasik And he said, no, there's a light prescription.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, I don't think that there is. So

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess ophthalmologists are right up there with

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Speaker 1: veterinarians in my book. Yeah. They don't seem to have

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Speaker 1: a real concrete answer to anything. Everything's vague. Why would

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Speaker 1: you need intermediate seeing? Like between distance and short sighted?

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Speaker 1: Why do you need to see another subthence.

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Speaker 3: There famously have only been two for a very long time.

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Speaker 1: Yea, so I guess people don't like the line in

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Speaker 1: the bifocal. I don't give a shit, though, I mean

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna be how old are I forty eight? I

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Speaker 1: mean at a certain point, I just have to give up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Brad had that happened once where he went to

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Speaker 3: a new optometrist and this guy was like, no, no,

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Speaker 3: I know your real prescription. All of the doctors you've

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Speaker 3: been seeing for the last fifteen years are wrong.

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Speaker 1: That's like when you get your bras fitted. You know,

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Speaker 1: someone's like, oh, these are the brods. This is gonna

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Speaker 1: be the bra that fits you, and it is for

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Speaker 1: the first twenty minutes, and then after you wear it,

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Speaker 1: you're like, no, my tits look like what.

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Speaker 4: Are these cones?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, forties? Look where my tits look pointy? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: And you just get stabbed in weird spots and it's

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Speaker 3: no good.

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Speaker 5: I don't know about bro fitting, but definitely I've been

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Speaker 5: wearing glasses since like third grade. And this doctor was like, oh, hey,

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Speaker 5: you know what your prescription. Let your eyes do the work.

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Speaker 5: Let your eyes work for it. And then he gave

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Speaker 5: me this prescription that was less so everything was blurry

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Speaker 5: and I had to like squint it everything that doesn't

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Speaker 5: make any fucking sense.

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Speaker 1: Yeh, work for what? And then also, you know my

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Speaker 1: favorite book, Letting Go by David Hawkings. In it, he

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Speaker 1: talks about letting go of the fact that you can't

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Speaker 1: see and just not wearing glasses and that his vision

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Speaker 1: miraculously came back to him. So I try that for

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Speaker 1: about a month not to not That's the only section

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Speaker 1: of the book. I'm like, listen, buddy, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what kind of magic you're working.

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Speaker 2: You guys are just like bootstrapping your eyes.

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Speaker 1: My corny is just going to repair itself because I've

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Speaker 1: decided to let go. If you believe enough, it will.

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Speaker 1: But I am in a great meditation zone. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm really feeling my meditations lately. I do that. I've

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Speaker 1: been doing my Chopra app and I do these courses,

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Speaker 1: but you know, sometimes you don't really feel it. You

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Speaker 1: just feel like you're sitting there thinking. But I'm really

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Speaker 1: able to like stop my thoughts and I'm like going

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Speaker 1: to this like place, like this light place. It's very reliable,

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Speaker 1: and now I'm craving it. I mean, this has been

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Speaker 1: I don't know how many years I've been meditating, probably

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Speaker 1: like four or five now, but it's been great. But

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Speaker 1: I'm in a zone right now and I'm liking it

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Speaker 1: a lot.

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Speaker 3: Do you what's it called when you can like cast

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Speaker 3: your spirit somewhere else.

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Speaker 1: That's what I feel like. That's what you're doing, Like

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Speaker 1: I'm not in my body.

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Speaker 5: Astral projection.

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Speaker 1: Yes, astral projection. Is that about my asshole?

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Speaker 4: That's exactly what it is.

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Speaker 1: Astral projection. Well, that's what I think I'm doing anyway,

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Speaker 1: Who knows if that's what I'm doing, But it feels

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Speaker 1: like I'm not in my body, like I'm in some

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Speaker 1: light filled atmosphere with my mom and my brother. They're

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Speaker 1: always with me, so that's fine.

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Speaker 3: I love that visit them anytime.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I picture my mom like a little nimph flying around,

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Speaker 1: like a little sphinx or Noah sphinx or nymph a

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Speaker 1: fairy very It's like that Greek mythology thing, like when

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Speaker 1: they fly around and bright yeaes spright. That's what I

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Speaker 1: think of.

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Speaker 3: And Chelsea, you're about to be traveling a bunch and

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Speaker 3: I have.

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Speaker 1: Just announced new stand updates for My Little Big Bitch

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Speaker 1: tour guys, I announced twenty five new cities. These are

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Speaker 1: probably a lot of the cities people have been mentioning

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Speaker 1: in the comments. I start out in East Hampton, I

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Speaker 1: go to New York, d C. During North Carolina, La, Phoenix, Cleveland, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Millwalky, Chicago, Madison, Portland,

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Speaker 1: to name just some. I will be performing at the

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Speaker 1: Kennedy Center everybody that's in DC October sixth. I'm super

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Speaker 1: psyched to be performing there. There are more. You can

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Speaker 1: go to Chelseahandler dot com. I am on tour. I

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Speaker 1: have dates coming up for the next three months and

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Speaker 1: then more dates coming up in the fall. So those

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Speaker 1: have all been announced. They're on my Instagram page, or

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Speaker 1: you can go to Chelsea Hamler dot com. Thank you

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Speaker 1: our first guest of season four, someone who has been

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Speaker 1: getting a ton of attention because she has been very

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Speaker 1: loud and proud about her transition into girlhood and I

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Speaker 1: am loving it up and I'm loving her Instagram. So

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Speaker 1: please welcome Dylan mulvaney. Hi, Dylan Mulvaaney in person and

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Speaker 1: looking beautiful as ever.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, Chelsea Handler.

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Speaker 1: So excited to finally meet you.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, I got to tell you, this is

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Speaker 4: a full circle moment. I grew up when I was

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Speaker 4: about thirteen, fourteen years old, this you know, gay boy

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Speaker 4: pre transition.

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Speaker 2: I was.

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Speaker 4: I had a friend group called the Harlot's and it

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Speaker 4: was me and a bunch of girls, bad bitches, and

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Speaker 4: we used to pass your books around and that's how

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Speaker 4: we learned about sex. Oh and and so I texted

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Speaker 4: them all. It had been a while since i've you know,

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Speaker 4: talked with them, but I said, You're never going to

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Speaker 4: believe what I'm going to see today. So I just

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Speaker 4: really it's it's a very full circle moment.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm so glad to hear that Dylan has gained

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Speaker 1: a lot of notoriety and popularity on her TikTok series

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Speaker 1: Becoming a Girl or is it Being a Girl?

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Speaker 4: Days of Girlhood?

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Speaker 1: Days of Girlhood.

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Speaker 4: We just hit day three sixty five a few weeks ago.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you had a big celebrate.

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Speaker 4: I did a big show musical Baby, I'm Broadway singing,

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Speaker 4: dancing and acting.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, talk about a full circle moment. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So I want to ask you so many questions, but

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Speaker 1: let's just start about gaining the confidence and the self

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Speaker 1: assuredness to follow your pursuit of becoming the real person

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Speaker 1: that you wanted to be.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, when I was four years old, I came to

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Speaker 4: my mom and I said, Mom, I think I'm a girl.

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Speaker 4: And you know, we grew up very Catholic, very conservative.

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Speaker 1: And so where'd you grow up?

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Speaker 4: The outskirts of San Diego, Okay, and a little town

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Speaker 4: called Alpine. And I was a boy in a dance

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Speaker 4: studio at age three, you know, only boy there dancing,

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Speaker 4: and and but I came to my mom and I

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Speaker 4: said this, and she said, well, God doesn't make mistakes.

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Speaker 4: And this was the year two thousand and so there

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Speaker 4: really weren't many resources at all, except you know, the

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Speaker 4: only transness we got to see was a sex worker

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Speaker 4: on NCIS that had been hurt. You know, we hadn't

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Speaker 4: seen trans people experiencing success or happiness or you know.

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Speaker 4: It was I don't resent my family or even myself

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Speaker 4: for not allowing me to become this woman that I

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Speaker 4: am now, because this was all part of the journey.

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Speaker 4: And finally, you know, these those gender thoughts, I pushed

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Speaker 4: them away because when I was starting to discover my sexuality,

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Speaker 4: which is a different thing than gender, I thought that

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Speaker 4: being gay was that the end of the world. I thought, really,

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Speaker 4: it doesn't, you know, it can't get any worse. And

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Speaker 4: so transnis wasn't even allowed to be in my mind.

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Speaker 4: And so I came out as gay at fourteen.

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Speaker 1: But when you said to your mother that you were four,

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Speaker 1: When you were four, you said, I feel I feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm a girl, and and she just was like,

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Speaker 1: God doesn't make any mistakes. And that was it.

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Speaker 4: We did some you know, I went to some therapy

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Speaker 4: and again a very different time, so I'm not resentful

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Speaker 4: at all, right, But it was then at the pandemic,

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Speaker 4: I was touring with a Broadway musical called The Book

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Speaker 4: of Mormon.

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Speaker 1: And ironic it's wild.

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Speaker 4: But I was spent my whole life, you know, doing theater,

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Speaker 4: playing these male roles, and there was no room even

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Speaker 4: in that industry to be trans and so once the

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Speaker 4: pandemic hit, it was the first time that I didn't

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Speaker 4: even have to see myself playing a part. I was like,

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Speaker 4: who is Dylan really without theater and religion and all

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Speaker 4: these things that had been put on me. And I

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Speaker 4: was a really feminine little boy growing up, and I

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Speaker 4: felt like I stripped parts of myself away for so

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Speaker 4: many years that I'm now finding again, and I think

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Speaker 4: that's been the most beautiful part, is getting to finally

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Speaker 4: give into those those feelings and those desires and those

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Speaker 4: outfits and whatever it might be that brings me euphoria.

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Speaker 4: But during the pandemic, I was like, Okay, let's reopen

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Speaker 4: that question of gender and I identified as non binary

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Speaker 4: for about a year went by. They then pronouns, and

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Speaker 4: it still was not where I was supposed to be,

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Speaker 4: and I think it was so daunting making that jump

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Speaker 4: from being a man to then that trans woman title

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Speaker 4: scared the shit out of me. And it's so funny.

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Speaker 4: I don't usually curse, but I'm around you and I

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Speaker 4: kind of feel like I want to let this a

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Speaker 4: little bit happens, but you have that influence. I thought,

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Speaker 4: you know, non binary moment of my life was kind

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Speaker 4: of this little cloud that I got to land on

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Speaker 4: for a hot second, and it was not the end

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Speaker 4: of my my journey. That's when I finally accepted. Actually,

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Speaker 4: I started hormones while I was non binary to you know,

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Speaker 4: feminize my body, and then I took on that sheep

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Speaker 4: pronoun and it feels so good.

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy to hear that you followed, you were

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Speaker 1: able to pursue what you felt was necessary to be

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Speaker 1: a complete human being. And I think what people's resistances

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Speaker 1: to transgender people, to the whole LGBTQII community is that

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Speaker 1: it's different from what they know, and anything that's different

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Speaker 1: than what anybody knows is scares them for some reason,

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Speaker 1: because it's the same reason people want to hold onto

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Speaker 1: power and don't want to give equality to everybody because

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Speaker 1: they're scared of what they may lose and their lack

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Speaker 1: of understanding. Instead of looking at it as a huge

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Speaker 1: growth opportunity to be like, oh my God, tell me everything.

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Speaker 1: I want to understand you better. Right, it doesn't come.

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Speaker 4: At the front well, and they you know, a lot

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Speaker 4: of people don't have a Dylan in their lives to

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Speaker 4: ask questions. And I think that's kind of why I

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Speaker 4: got online too, was because I wanted to be that

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Speaker 4: friend for people. I wanted to show that I'm not

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Speaker 4: some monster. And it's sad that there are still so

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Speaker 4: many people that are trying to use this really beautiful

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Speaker 4: journey against me and twisting my words and taking things

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Speaker 4: out of context. But at the end of the day,

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Speaker 4: like I'm happier than I ever have been because I could.

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Speaker 4: I can't imagine going back to that other person. It

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Speaker 4: breaks my heart to think about.

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Speaker 1: Hmm, yeah, I would imagine. So so how do you

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Speaker 1: reconcile that? Like when you look back at your former

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Speaker 1: life before you became a woman, how do you frame

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Speaker 1: that time?

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Speaker 6: You know?

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Speaker 4: I try to actually think about it in a very

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Speaker 4: positive I always do glass half full. Everything that has

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Speaker 4: happened before transition that was supposed to happen, that was

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Speaker 4: part of my story. I was learning things and now

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Speaker 4: I feel like now it's all icing on the cake

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Speaker 4: because I actually got to the cake finally. But I

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Speaker 4: just I don't want to ever resent. You know, there

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Speaker 4: are sometimes the mindset of like every day before you

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Speaker 4: know I came out was absolutely horrible. But no, I

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Speaker 4: had some good times in my life, but I just

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Speaker 4: hadn't entered my full potential at all. You know, when

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Speaker 4: you're locked into yourself right and you're like, oh, this

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Speaker 4: is who I am. This feels right. My intuition has

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Speaker 4: never been more alive within myself. So I'm just I'm

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Speaker 4: trying to stay strong.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you will be strong. You're already strong.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, you know, and there's always going to be

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Speaker 1: bumps in the road and things will happen that will

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Speaker 1: feel like you're getting off course. But it's up to

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Speaker 1: you to remain steadfast and true to who you are

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Speaker 1: and to follow your truth because your truth is unlike

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Speaker 1: anyone else's and people have an easy time forgetting that.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about what it

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Speaker 1: takes to actually transition, because that is another argument for

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Speaker 1: the reason that people wouldn't be doing it. It's not easy.

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Speaker 1: It's not easy to transition. It's not easy to change

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Speaker 1: your sex that you were born with or to feel

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Speaker 1: like you're not the person that you were meant to be.

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Speaker 1: So talk to me a little bit about that.

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Speaker 5: Well.

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Speaker 4: I really get upset when people say, you know, she

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Speaker 4: woke up one day and just decided she wanted to

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Speaker 4: be a girl, Like this was not a decision, This

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Speaker 4: was who every fiber of my being. And I put

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Speaker 4: in a lot of frickin' effort and a lot of

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Speaker 4: you know, mental gymnastics, a lot of therapy, a lot

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Speaker 4: of soul searching to do this, and it is something

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Speaker 4: that I don't take lightly. I think that this journey

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Speaker 4: that I'm on you know, going on hormones. Those were

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Speaker 4: all huge decisions that I had to make and very

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Speaker 4: private ones. And while you know, every transition looks completely different,

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Speaker 4: you know, there are trans people that aren't on hormones

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Speaker 4: or that might choose not to get surgeries. But for

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Speaker 4: those of us who need those things for our dysphoria,

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Speaker 4: we need access to them and that we can't be

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Speaker 4: vilified for needing those things.

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Speaker 1: Right, And you recently had facial feminization, right, oh babe,

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Speaker 1: I feel it's good, right, yeah, yeah, beautiful.

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Speaker 4: And my biggest thing about sharing that process online was

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Speaker 4: that I didn't want people to see it as plastic surgery.

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Speaker 4: I needed them to know that this is like an

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Speaker 4: affirming surgery that can change lives and possibly save lives.

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Speaker 4: And it was so wild to look in the mirror

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Speaker 4: and see what I imagined for the you know, for

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Speaker 4: the first time, to kind of it was just a

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Speaker 4: soften of my features. I didn't look totally different, but

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Speaker 4: a very emotional experience. And I do think like there's

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Speaker 4: power in sharing a story so that people can get

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Speaker 4: like a little look.

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Speaker 1: In absolutely, I mean, that's what you're doing is freeing

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Speaker 1: other people when you share your story. You're giving license

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Speaker 1: to other people to share their stories and to follow

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Speaker 1: their dreams. How many surgeries have you had to have

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Speaker 1: thus far?

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Speaker 4: So it's it's funny, like there's really no rulebook to

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Speaker 4: how transitions go. And again it's like you can, you know,

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Speaker 4: sort of pick and choose what it is based on

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Speaker 4: your euphoria and dysphoria. So you know that was because

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Speaker 4: I'm so in the public eye right now. I knew

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Speaker 4: that that was one of the first things that I

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Speaker 4: wanted to do, since I am so on display and

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Speaker 4: I was feeling so self conscious and very upset about

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Speaker 4: my features. But now I'm actually I think I'm going

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Speaker 4: to take a little bit of a step back about

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Speaker 4: talking about my physical transition, because, first of all, that

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Speaker 4: word influencer scares the shit out of me, because I

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Speaker 4: don't want to influence anyone to do anything. But I

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Speaker 4: don't want other trans people, especially young trans people, to

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Speaker 4: feel like they have to do something in a order

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Speaker 4: to be trans. And so while I do have other

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Speaker 4: plans and other surgeries that I like, I haven't decided

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Speaker 4: how I'm going to necessarily share those because I don't

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Speaker 4: want to set any sort.

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Speaker 1: Of precedents that's nice and I'm responsible, I'm sure. I

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Speaker 1: want to know how it made you feel to get

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Speaker 1: all this love online. And I mean, you're a viral,

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Speaker 1: you know, superstar on Instagram and TikTok. If you don't

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Speaker 1: follow her already, it's at Dylan mulvaney.

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Speaker 4: And hey, you're killing it on TikTok right now too.

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Speaker 4: I'm digging the PSAs great.

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Speaker 1: I got another one coming up that involves you, so

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Speaker 1: so so tell us about what that welcoming and affirmation

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Speaker 1: must feel like, because after going through something and experiencing

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Speaker 1: something for so long and taking the balls by you know,

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Speaker 1: the bull by its horns and saying, fuck it, this

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Speaker 1: is my life. I'm going to do what I'm going

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Speaker 1: to do, yeah, you know, and having people applaud.

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Speaker 4: That, well, I still don't really get social media, to

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Speaker 4: be honest. It's it's so crazy how fast things can

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Speaker 4: can travel there. And I think normally, like I was

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Speaker 4: a musical theater kid, I just wanted to I still

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Speaker 4: want to be an actress. And normally you like book

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Speaker 4: a movie and you have like two years befo for

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Speaker 4: it comes out, so you kind of have some preparation

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Speaker 4: of like, okay, this might happen, you know, But I mean,

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Speaker 4: I think I had a million followers in like seventeen days,

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Speaker 4: and no one can really like, get you ready for that?

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Speaker 4: And I think also I was essentially sharing the most

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Speaker 4: vulnerable parts of my life. So there's kind of a

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Speaker 4: double whammy of putting yourself out there and having your

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Speaker 4: transits on display. And if there was if another transperson

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Speaker 4: came to me right now and said, oh, should I

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Speaker 4: start from day one and showcase, I'd say, oh, babe,

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Speaker 4: I don't know about that, just because of all of

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Speaker 4: the turmoil that's come from it. But I will say

436
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,160
Speaker 4: the amount of love and the fact that on day

437
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 4: one I said this is who I am and I

438
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,400
Speaker 4: hadn't had, you know, any surgery. I was still very

439
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:51,320
Speaker 4: much finding my femininity and figuring out what really makes

440
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,919
Speaker 4: me a woman versus the misogyny that I still am

441
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,239
Speaker 4: working through that was placed on me. But I was

442
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,400
Speaker 4: supported by women saying we stand by you, we see

443
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,439
Speaker 4: you as a woman, We're here for you on this journey.

444
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,199
Speaker 4: And now I have people in the comments being like,

445
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 4: we been here since day one, day seven, day nine,

446
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,359
Speaker 4: and that gives me hope, and I hope that it

447
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 4: shows other trans people that are still in the closet

448
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,719
Speaker 4: that they can when they're ready and on their own time,

449
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:23,199
Speaker 4: that they can feel allowed to come out and to

450
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 4: experience life in the beautiful way.

451
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:27,360
Speaker 6: Yeah.

452
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 1: I think one of the most offensive things to hear

453
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 1: is people who are talking about, you know, trans people, saying, oh,

454
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,920
Speaker 1: it's trendy, it's trendy. Are we supposed to let children

455
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,320
Speaker 1: change their sex before they're ready because what if they

456
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 1: change their mind back? And it's such a miseducation and

457
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 1: an unknowing. Like I had a friend say to me, oh,

458
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 1: I know there are eight year old kids that are

459
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 1: getting transgender surgery without their parents, and I'm like, that's

460
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 1: simply not true. First of all, there is no eight

461
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 1: year old.

462
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 3: That can go to the fucking doctor and become drive

463
00:21:58,680 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 3: themselves there.

464
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 1: It's just so dumb.

465
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 4: So it's it's insane that that notion of like trendiness,

466
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 4: because transness has existed like since the beginning of time,

467
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 4: and truly, like in certain cultures, the two spirits or

468
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 4: transness was actually like seen as almost the most holy

469
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 4: or the most reverent or the most respected. And it's

470
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,680
Speaker 4: so sad to watch, as you know, the years go by,

471
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,919
Speaker 4: it get sort of picked apart due to capitalism and

472
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 4: and all of these things that have essentially let go

473
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 4: of the fact that this is who we are.

474
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 6: Well.

475
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 1: And then also just in a scientific aspect, From a

476
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 1: scientific perspective, there is a spectrum of mail. What male

477
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 1: like Arnold Schwarzenegger is at one end of the spectrum, okay,

478
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 1: and then Pamela Anderson is at the other end of

479
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,160
Speaker 1: the spectrum. That's a boy, that's a girl, and then

480
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 1: there's fifty million things in between.

481
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, it's biological as well. It's not just an idea.

482
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: This has been going on since people were born. Like

483
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,639
Speaker 1: there's this is not new, This is not trendy. We

484
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,160
Speaker 1: just happened to have a vocabulary about it in another

485
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 1: modern era.

486
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 4: It makes me very sad too when they go, oh,

487
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 4: she's doing this to be to get famous or you

488
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 4: know what. When I came out, I was assumed that

489
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 4: I would not work for a very long time. I

490
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 4: you know, it's not like trans people are out here,

491
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 4: you know, thriving. We're just trying to survive. And I

492
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 4: am My experience online that you know, in my success

493
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 4: is like one one millionth of what it actually is

494
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 4: to be trans. The transphobia I experience is so different

495
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 4: than that of a black trans woman who you know,

496
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 4: these are as much as I am going through it,

497
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 4: and I have you know, a lot of people that

498
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 4: maybe don't care for me. There's still so much privilege

499
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 4: and in what in my experience compared to other trans peoples.

500
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 4: And I need to make sure that we're taking care

501
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 4: of the whole community and that this isn't you know,

502
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 4: some this There's nothing about this that's a gimmick. This

503
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 4: is my truth. It's such an odd remark to make

504
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,479
Speaker 4: that they think that I would do this for any reason,

505
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 4: but because of it's such a difficult decision. Yeah, well,

506
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 4: and there is.

507
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 3: I think there is something scary to people who are

508
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 3: scared of of transness or you know, the LGBTQ community.

509
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 3: There's something scary about someone like you who chooses, despite

510
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 3: that adversity, to show up, bubbling over with joy and

511
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 3: to bring positivity and even though it is difficult, to

512
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 3: still show off your joy.

513
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,919
Speaker 4: Well, and that's the thing I and I'll say also,

514
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 4: and I think you'll get me on this comedy for

515
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 4: me is my way in. And so a lot of

516
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 4: the times. I will make light of sometimes these really

517
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 4: dark situations because it's my coping mechanism. It always has been.

518
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 4: I like making people laugh, I like making people smile.

519
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 4: I was doing a lot of stand up about a

520
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 4: year ago, and I realized it was it was very

521
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 4: healing for me to just I love to overshare. I

522
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 4: think you can relate, but I tried to find the

523
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 4: funny and transness, and it's really it's a slippery slope

524
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 4: because then things get taken out of context or it

525
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 4: gets used against you, and I think I now am

526
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 4: trying to take a step back. And another thing that

527
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 4: happens too in your trans is you immediately get labeled

528
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 4: as like an activist and that you know how to

529
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 4: speak on all of these things and that you have

530
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 4: the answers. But I'm a baby trans. You know, I'm

531
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 4: still so new to my journey that I've made a

532
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 4: lot of missteps. I've spoken out of turn. And the

533
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 4: most important thing is that you know, hopefully not all

534
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 4: trans people have to be these like activists have to

535
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 4: have every single answer. You know, I have so much

536
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 4: left to learn.

537
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 1: That's a good point that you bring up. As an activist. Also,

538
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: you're speaking up for things that you care about. It

539
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you know the answer to every in

540
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: and out of the subject or the topic. Obviously, we

541
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: are interested in educating ourselves on whatever whatever topic we're

542
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: being an ally to or an ally.

543
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 4: For or well that's you know. I'm a musical theater major,

544
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 4: so I mean that's my way in. I'm like, God,

545
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 4: can I sing about it?

546
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 7: Can?

547
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 6: You know?

548
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 4: And that's what I did on day three sixty five.

549
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 4: I was like, Oh, let me show people what I

550
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 4: actually want to do, which was perform, and I used

551
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 4: my story to kind of put it into a show.

552
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 4: And now going forward, I think that if I was

553
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 4: to create a show with the trans character, or to

554
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 4: write a touring show, those are different forms of activism

555
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 4: in itself. And I actually think that through scripted and

556
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 4: through comedy that we can learn from absolutely.

557
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: I mean, that's how we learn about everything in this world.

558
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 4: Right, It's almost easier way. It's not a real human

559
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 4: that it's like, oh, there's a little bit of mystery there.

560
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 6: Yeah.

561
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

562
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 3: I wonder if for folks who aren't really clear about

563
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 3: euphoria and dysphoria, can you talk to us a little

564
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 3: bit about that Okay.

565
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 4: So I remember, like early on in my transition, like

566
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 4: those first moments of actually purchasing an item of clothing

567
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 4: that I've always you know, craved wearing, or even just

568
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 4: like a man opening the door and calling me ma'am.

569
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 4: I know that that's so gender stereotype, but it was like, oh,

570
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 4: oh my god, like it and funny enough during the pandemic,

571
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 4: wearing those masks, it was kind of nice because I

572
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:24,679
Speaker 4: still have a little I'm trying to get rid of

573
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 4: this beard hair, and she's really putting up a fight.

574
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 1: But hey, by the way, I'm trying to deal with

575
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 1: my beard hair too, you know that's what I heard.

576
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 1: I have those blonde will I have different dear hair,

577
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: but the blonde fuzzies. I shave my face all the time.

578
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: They come.

579
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 4: We'll do it together. And I just think there are euphoria, truly,

580
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 4: are those little moments that sometimes it isn't this like

581
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 4: outward like oh my god, it's that, but it's like

582
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 4: that little spark in you that's like, oh yes, And

583
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 4: then dysphoria is truly it feels like a darkness that

584
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 4: kind of washes over you, and it is those moments

585
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 4: of being misgendered or I remember before transitioning having to

586
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 4: put on a male outfit for an audition, or you know,

587
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,239
Speaker 4: just like that, conforming that made me so sad. And

588
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 4: that's what I think a lot of these haters don't realize,

589
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 4: is that the mental effects of misgendering in the media.

590
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 4: It breaks my heart because you know, there are people

591
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 4: calling me a man, and I don't Right now, I

592
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 4: feel like I'm not even processing any of it because

593
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 4: I'm so scared to do that deep dive and to

594
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 4: know what the effects are. And I'll say, these haters,

595
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 4: they really wore me down for a second. But then

596
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 4: they came for you, Chelse, and I thought, oh my god,

597
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 4: this is my favorite woman in the entire world, and

598
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 4: the same people that are coming for me are coming

599
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 4: for her. And it actually something clicked, and I went,

600
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 4: oh my god, maybe what they're saying isn't true because

601
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 4: I'm now watching them take out someone I love and

602
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 4: I know her truth and I stand by her and

603
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 4: I love her. So maybe the same goes for me,

604
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 4: because it's almost easier when it's not about you and

605
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 4: it's about someone you love or enjoy. And I know

606
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 4: we hadn't met yet. But I actually was able to

607
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 4: see in through your experience with them.

608
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 1: Oh wow, I love that. Yeah, I mean I was

609
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: saying this to you a little bit before we started.

610
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: But you know, the haters is kind of like, it's

611
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 1: just like you have a big pile of stuff. There's

612
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: always going to be there's going to be some negative stuff.

613
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: You know, you have to learn how to focus on

614
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: the positive and all the people that you're impacting, and

615
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: eventually it just rolls right off your.

616
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 4: Back and we both know how to have a good

617
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 4: time exactly. And that's what you know. I don't think

618
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 4: they want to see that.

619
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no. I mean for Republican men to

620
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,239
Speaker 1: tell me that I'm unhappy, I'm like, who said I

621
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: was happy? You guys are assuming I'm happy because of

622
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: the way I'm living. Yeah, I'm not going I'm happy.

623
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 7: I'm happy.

624
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: I don't have to say that because I fucking am happy.

625
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: I don't have to scream it from the rooftops payment

626
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: every time I do. Now, now something, they've given me

627
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: more motivation just to fuck with them, because they can't

628
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: handle a woman who knows a that can take care

629
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: of it. A lot of people around her that doesn't

630
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: need a man to do that, and doesn't need a

631
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: child to do that. You're not gonna keep me down ever,

632
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: And I think that's how anyone who's ever receiving that

633
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: has to look at it. It's like, look at the source,

634
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, look at the ignorance, and

635
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,239
Speaker 1: look at the idea for me personally, the idea that

636
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: a man knows what's best for me is.

637
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 3: Preposterous, especially a man that doesn't actually know.

638
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: You know, but no one who knows me knows what's

639
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: best for me except for me, my sister, maybe Simona

640
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: and Shashana. But I don't even know. I know what's

641
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: best for me, you know what I mean, just like

642
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: you know what's best for you, and like every individual

643
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast knows what's best for you. There's

644
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: an inner knowing that we all have. And it doesn't

645
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: matter if you were born a boy or born a girl.

646
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: You have an intuition that comes with your person and

647
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: that's what you have to listen to. And on that note,

648
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: we should take some callers. Yeah, we're gonna take a

649
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: break so I can calm the fuck down. Okay, and

650
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: we're back.

651
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 4: We're back with.

652
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: Still in the Jolly.

653
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 2: Well.

654
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 3: Our first question is just an email, Kayla says to

655
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 3: your Chelsea, rejection has always been my biggest fear. As

656
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 3: a kid, I had almost no friends. I was teased

657
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 3: from my looks, my old soul personality was misunderstood. Now

658
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 3: I'm in my mid thirties and I have more friends

659
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 3: than I can handle. Don't get me wrong, I feel

660
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 3: grateful to have so many girlfriends that I can count

661
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 3: on and grow with, but I feel pretty overwhelmed with

662
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 3: maintaining all of these relationships in a meaningful way. Nowadays,

663
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 3: I seem to mostly get asked to go to all

664
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 3: the big events such as weddings, birthdays, and baby showers,

665
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 3: and I'm often told you're the busiest person I know,

666
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 3: so I'm less likely to get asked to just have coffee.

667
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 3: It's true, though, my schedule feels so full, and I'm

668
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 3: drained by balancing all these relationships Besides friends. My husband

669
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 3: has a large family and mine is quite sizable too.

670
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 3: It's a lot of personal relationships to maintain.

671
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: Chelsea.

672
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 3: You seem like the kind of person who has a

673
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 3: ton of friends. How do you keep up with everyone?

674
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 3: I never feel like I'm being a good enough friend.

675
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 3: Should I try to not be so hard on myself

676
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 3: or work on more practical ways to keep in touch

677
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 3: with them all? Thanks so much, Kayla.

678
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: Oh well, that's a good problem to have, Tayla, I

679
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: would say, I'll go first, and then Dylan, you can

680
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: chime in anytime you want, Okay, I would say that, yes,

681
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: that is a good problem to have. I would say,

682
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: to be respectful to all of the people that are

683
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,959
Speaker 1: in your life. And the way I show respect personally

684
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: is I respond to every text and email that I get.

685
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: I always respond. It might take a minute, but especially

686
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: text I find that that is a more personal kind

687
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: of way. So if I've forgotten an email or two

688
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: that you know, that's probably true. But texting wise, I

689
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: try to get back to every single person who leaves

690
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: me a tech message, And even if it's the news

691
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: isn't good, like I can't make it. It's nice to

692
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: just show that kind of They used to say deference

693
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: in school when I wouldn't respect my teachers. They said

694
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: you had to show deference and I was like, fuck off.

695
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: But deference is just showing somebody respect and saying, like

696
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: you know, creating boundaries creates respect. That is true. When

697
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: you say no to things because you need time alone,

698
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: or you you know, you have other plans or whatever,

699
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: that's all fine. You don't have to over extend yourself.

700
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: That's not doing anybody any favors, because you grow resentful

701
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: of the person that you're overextending yourself for, and you

702
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: grow resentful of not spending enough time on yourself. So

703
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: I would just say to anybody like, I mean, it

704
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: seems like it seems like it's more of a personal

705
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: problem from your writing, like you feel that you need

706
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: to spend all this time with all these people, I

707
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: would say, dial that back a little bit, give yourself

708
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: some room to breathe and reassess yourself, give yourself six

709
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: weeks and say, Okay, I'm going to do this for

710
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: six weeks and see how I feel at the end

711
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: of the six weeks. I'm going to respond to anyone

712
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: who asks me, but I'm not going to make plans

713
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: with every single person who asks me. I'm gonna say, actually,

714
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: I have a really busy week, or if you're not.

715
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 1: I mean, it was kind of a mixed message because

716
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 1: she's saying she's getting invited to big things rather than

717
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: the little things if those little interactions are important for you,

718
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: and studies show that it is very important to socialize.

719
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: It isn't very important to be around other people, but

720
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: it's also very important to regroup. Like I need an

721
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: anordinate amount of time to be by myself in order

722
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: for me to perform on stage on a regular basis

723
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: during a tour, I need to be alone for many

724
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: hours a day. I have to conserve my fucking energy

725
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 1: because I don't have the energy and the stamina that

726
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: I had when I was in my twenties. And you

727
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 1: know whatever, So I.

728
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 4: Because you're so present with people, and that's what I'll say.

729
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 4: I nearly died when you said I respond to every

730
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 4: text message because my phone is like it's we're in

731
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 4: the hundreds, babe, And I was feeling so guilty. I'm

732
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 4: the number one people pleaser. But then I realized My

733
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 4: goal is that when I actually am with someone in

734
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 4: person or if I I'm on a phone call, I'm

735
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 4: going to be one hundred percent present and I'm not.

736
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 4: I don't want to do the half assed sort of like,

737
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,320
Speaker 4: oh I'm going to hang out a bunch of people,

738
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:09,879
Speaker 4: but I'm going to be you know, in a bunch

739
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 4: of different places in my head or working or no.

740
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 4: I want to show up. And when I do get

741
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 4: those moments, which maybe are more rare now with friends

742
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 4: or loved ones, I want to be there fully. And

743
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 4: I've actually now set the precedent that, do you know

744
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 4: Glennon Doyle, Yeah, she talked about she doesn't really text anymore.

745
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 4: She thinks that it's you're basically always at the beck

746
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 4: and call of someone else. And so now all my

747
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 4: friends know to call me and we'll have these great,

748
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 4: you know, phone calls and chats and and that has

749
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 4: like filled me up in a new way.

750
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: And you know what, that's great that you say that,

751
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: because I'm the opposite. I would prefer a text rather

752
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: than a phone call. Don't fucking call me. But and

753
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: but I think what you said is very precient, because

754
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: it's it's very important. That's what I said to my

755
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: girlfriend once she got mad at me for canceling, and

756
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: I said, listen, I can't. I'm canceling because I'm not

757
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: going to be able to be present. I'm exhausted, I'm tired,

758
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 1: I feel like shit. I want to be present, and

759
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: that is the most important gift you can give somebody

760
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: is your time.

761
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 4: And presence and how funny to the people that I

762
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 4: want to hang out with the most are usually the

763
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 4: ones that are like, oh, I'm not gonna message her

764
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 4: because she's busy. But then it's the people that you know,

765
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 4: they're they're hounding you to hang out and you're like, wait, no,

766
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 4: I want to go see these other people.

767
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:18,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

768
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 4: So I think it's also really reaching out to the

769
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 4: people that you want to be around, that you want

770
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 4: to go on that coffee date with, and then saying

771
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,399
Speaker 4: no when it when it feels right, and.

772
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 1: Also measuring how you feel after your interactions with people,

773
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: like actually taking in are you getting a lot out

774
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 1: of this relationship or are you being present for someone

775
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: going through a difficult time? Those are two ends of

776
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: the spectrum. But they also like I like to be there.

777
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: I like emotional triage. When somebody needs something and a

778
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 1: friend needs something, then I like to be there for them.

779
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 1: I excel at that, but I'm not going to be

780
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 1: doing that for two years in a row, you know

781
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:54,439
Speaker 1: what I mean. I want to help you get out

782
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: of it. And then there's other friends who don't necessarily

783
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: need you, who are bringing something and filling your cup.

784
00:36:59,760 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 6: Ups.

785
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: So it's good to measure the time that you're spending

786
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: with people, because if you're exhausting yourself on three people

787
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: that are fair weather friends and then you're then you've

788
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: lost all your energy for the real friend. Like, you

789
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: have to kind of measure who brings what into your

790
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 1: life and what is the value and how much of

791
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: a priority each friend is.

792
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 3: Communicating with someone how you like to be communicated with,

793
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 3: which you've both said I think is awesome. So for example,

794
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 3: maybe it's sorry I can't come to your birthday party,

795
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 3: but let's grab coffee and set a date, you know,

796
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 3: so that you get that one on one time with

797
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 3: someone who does fill your cup.

798
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's nice because you like to text it. I

799
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 4: like to call, so I just.

800
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: So we'll meet each other in the middle. Do you

801
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: call or do you FaceTime?

802
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 6: Oh?

803
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 4: I like to call because I like, what if I'm

804
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 4: peeing or you know, I don't. That's a lot. Face

805
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 4: timing is.

806
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: A lot, right, well, facetiming is a lot. I consider

807
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: that to be an assault, you know what I mean, Like,

808
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: you can't just fucking FaceTime me. But most of my

809
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: people know that nobody does that. Yeah. Talking on the phone,

810
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: I have to say, is sexier than face time is Yeah. Yes,

811
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 1: Like it's staring at somebody for two hours.

812
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,359
Speaker 4: It's just not gone earth. There's like a you know,

813
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 4: a man that you're texting and all of a sudden

814
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 4: it goes and you're like, oh shit, you know, and

815
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 4: you're like putting on some eline, are really fast, throw

816
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 4: your phone in the Oh my god. Well Kayla, let

817
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 4: us know how it goes.

818
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 1: Kelly, hopefully we gave you some advice.

819
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

820
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, our first caller today is Dane and this

821
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 3: one is a bit of a gut punch, so fair warning, okay.

822
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 3: Dear Chelsea. I'm writing in today because I'm a trans

823
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 3: guy and my mom has been ashamed of me ever

824
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 3: since I came out as trans to her almost a

825
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 3: decade ago. She didn't understand then and still doesn't. We

826
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 3: didn't speak for almost nine months because she didn't respect

827
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 3: my name change and my pronouns. When I would tell

828
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 3: her it hurt my feelings that she didn't even try

829
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 3: to use my preferred name or pronouns. She'd lecture me

830
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 3: for hours about how selfish I was, or I needed

831
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 3: to grow up and understand that the real world would

832
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 3: never be as understanding as she was. She's a proud

833
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 3: conservative and conspiracy theorist and takes every opportunity to spread

834
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 3: her ignorance. I'm at my wits end. She's currently engaged

835
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 3: to a guy who's even more transphobic than she is.

836
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 3: He supposedly loves me, but here's the thing, he doesn't

837
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 3: know I'm trans. If he knew, I think he'd lose it.

838
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 3: He saw a picture of me pre transition early in

839
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 3: their relationship and asked her about it. Instead of the truth,

840
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 3: she told him that she had a daughter who was

841
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 3: killed in a drug driving accident. When I had top

842
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 3: surgery several years ago, she made up excuses and lied

843
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 3: to him about why she was coming over to check

844
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 3: on me. She's my only remaining family. I've always taken

845
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 3: care of her since I was a young child. I

846
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 3: was the parent for both of us. She sees me

847
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 3: as her son now, but still posts transphobic things online constantly.

848
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 3: She isn't supportive of my long term transition goals, and

849
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 3: if I so much as cough, she blames it on

850
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 3: my hormone therapy. As I get older and work through

851
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 3: all my trauma and therapy. I'm starting to wonder how

852
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 3: much I should keep trying with her. I don't want

853
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 3: to lose my only family, but I also feel so

854
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 3: jaded from everything she's put me through.

855
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 4: What should I do?

856
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 1: Dane? Hi, Dane, Dane, Oh my god, this is Dylan mulvaney.

857
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: She's our guest today, so you have another set of years.

858
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 7: Nice to meet you.

859
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 4: First of all, I just want to I wish I

860
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 4: could give you like the biggest hug ever. I'm trans

861
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 4: as well, and I know that our journeys are very different,

862
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 4: but I can relate on multiple levels. You know, I

863
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 4: come from a very conservative family as well, and I

864
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 4: know how frustrating this might be, but I do believe

865
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 4: people are capable of change, and sometimes it can take

866
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 4: a long time. But I also what I worry about

867
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 4: with your mom is it sounds like she loves you

868
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 4: with almost like an asterix of like what that means?

869
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 4: You know, there's all of these layers of getting to

870
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 4: that love that you know should just be so pure

871
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 4: between a parent and a child, with no what's the

872
00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 4: word unconditional?

873
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: It should love between a mother and a child, or

874
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 1: between hopefully any two people. But fortunately that's not the

875
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: world we live in, but continue.

876
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 4: And I'm just hoping that outside of this one person

877
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 4: that is technically your biological family, I just want you

878
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 4: to have the most amazing, chosen family around you, and

879
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 4: I want you to be surrounded with other trans people

880
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 4: that love you and making sure that when those transphobic

881
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 4: comments do come from someone like your mom, that they

882
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 4: can be there to step up and say that's not true.

883
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 4: We know you and this is what we see. And

884
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 4: I just I don't want you to lose your favorite

885
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 4: parts of yourself because of that bond that you're trying

886
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 4: so hard to keep together.

887
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: Do you have any thoughts, Chelse, Yeah, I would say

888
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 1: that your mom is really toxic for you at this

889
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: stage in your life. I also believe people change, but

890
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: her behavior posting anti transshit online when she knows that

891
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: she has a son whose trans is just that's like

892
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 1: hanging out with your own bully, you know what I mean? Like,

893
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 1: I don't think that there's any benefit or change that's

894
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: going to happen from continuing this relationship, especially after the

895
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 1: circumstances you mentioned in this letter, your stepfather who she

896
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: lied to about her son. I mean, what is that

897
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: that's crazy. Yeah, I mean that's very psychotic behavior, and

898
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 1: you can't pretend somebody died, like that's psychotic. So I think,

899
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 1: based on her behavior alone, like, I think you kind

900
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: of owe it to yourself to create a lot of

901
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: distance and enjoy the people that you have in your

902
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: life that really love you. I know, this is your mother,

903
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 1: and then that's very difficult. I've never had to like

904
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 1: disassociate from my parents, but I would say that it's

905
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: not in your best interest to have her in your life.

906
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 7: Yeah.

907
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, we've had periods in our relationship where

908
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 8: we have gone months at a time without speaking, and

909
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 8: because of all of the trauma that we've been through

910
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,439
Speaker 8: individual and together, we always kind of end up coming

911
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 8: back together.

912
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:05,760
Speaker 7: And itself is really hard.

913
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 1: You know that what kind of trauma are you talking about?

914
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: Are you talking about your transition? Are you talking about

915
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: other trauma?

916
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 7: Other trauma?

917
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:12,280
Speaker 1: Okay?

918
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 8: Like what really bad stuff you know that she's done,

919
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 8: and that was done to both of us throughout my

920
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 8: childhood and her childhood.

921
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 7: I see, you know, it's brutal trauma.

922
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:27,319
Speaker 8: Bonding is a real thing, and especially when we're all

923
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 8: each other has it makes it extra hard. You know,

924
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 8: to kind of sever those ties, and it makes it

925
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 8: hard to when when there is that distance in that separation,

926
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 8: and then promises are made like oh, you know, we'll try,

927
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 8: or we won't you know, we won't talk about these things,

928
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 8: or we won't do this, and then those promises fade

929
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 8: away and old habits come out, and then it's just like, oh,

930
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:47,320
Speaker 8: you haven't really changed.

931
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 7: You know, you're still the same toxic person and you

932
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 7: just kind of wanted to Trojan Horseship way back in.

933
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 7: So it's hard.

934
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 8: And I do believe people can change, you know, I'm

935
00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 8: evidence of that. You know, I've changed a lot, and

936
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 8: I've grown and healed in a lot of really positive ways.

937
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 4: You're amazing, thank you.

938
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 8: But it's hard to want the same thing for her,

939
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 8: you know, to want her to heal and for her

940
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 8: to grow in positive ways, but to not be able

941
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 8: to force that and just to kind of have to

942
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:16,879
Speaker 8: bear the burden of that trauma and that.

943
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 7: Way and not walk together in the light, you know

944
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 7: what I mean.

945
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, you said that you ended up taking care of her,

946
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 4: and I want you to know that that was not

947
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 4: your job and that a child should be a child

948
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,879
Speaker 4: and a parent should be the parent and that those

949
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 4: roles that were placed on you are not normal. That

950
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 4: wasn't healthy, and they've continued throughout your life even though

951
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 4: you're now also an adult. And I believe that your

952
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 4: transnis was probably one of the first times that you

953
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 4: went against taking care of her because that was that

954
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 4: was you taking care of yourself, and that scared the

955
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 4: shit out of her in that transphobia. It could have

956
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 4: been anything, but it was your transness that took precedent

957
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 4: because that's who you are, that was always who you've been.

958
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 4: And I think for her that that resentment towards your

959
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,720
Speaker 4: transness also comes from the fact that you were able

960
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:12,399
Speaker 4: to stand up to her and say, this is who

961
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,439
Speaker 4: I am. I'm playing by these rules, and that's kind

962
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 4: of one of the only times that you've You've done

963
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:20,839
Speaker 4: that because it was so important to you. But you

964
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:22,720
Speaker 4: need to be able to do that in every area

965
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 4: of your life and not just your gender identity, because

966
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 4: that is when she will actually see you as an

967
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 4: equal and as an adult and someone that you know.

968
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 4: It kind of sounds like maybe you should go cold

969
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 4: turkey for a second and show her what it's like

970
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 4: to experience her life without you, because you bring so

971
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 4: much light to it that maybe she needs to be

972
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 4: reminded just exactly how much light that is.

973
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 3: If you do choose to keep a relationship with her

974
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 3: at all, you got to unfollow the Facebook, you gotta

975
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 3: unfollow all those socials, mute whatever you gotta do. But like,

976
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 3: you don't need to see that, You don't need that

977
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 3: popping up in your day. And give yourself boundaries as well,

978
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 3: because I know you live in different places. When you

979
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 3: do go to visit, don't stay.

980
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 1: At her house.

981
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 3: You need to stay nearby somewhere else, so that when

982
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 3: you need to retreat and go into your own space,

983
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 3: you have the opportunity.

984
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 6: To do that.

985
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and creating boundaries, you need to create boundaries.

986
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 4: Also, the fact that she has not told her husband

987
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,800
Speaker 4: that you were trans that is like such a huge

988
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 4: red flag of shame. Yeah, And there is nothing to

989
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 4: be ashamed of of being you. And it breaks my

990
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 4: heart that she is so scared to even share that

991
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 4: with another very important person in her life. And so

992
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 4: I think before that reunion can happen, I think that

993
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 4: conversation needs to happen, and it might prolong that time apart,

994
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 4: and it might get even messier. But I don't think

995
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 4: you can go forward in this relationship with that secret

996
00:46:55,840 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 4: and my god, like you're her child at the end

997
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 4: of the day, that should take the cake.

998
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: I have a question, have you had any separation from her? Like,

999
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 1: have you guys ever taken a time out from your relationship?

1000
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 8: Yeah, Like we've had periods of up to like almost

1001
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 8: a year of not speaking, not seeing each other at all.

1002
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 1: M m. And then you kind of just revert back

1003
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 1: to where it started or back to your regular habits

1004
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:20,720
Speaker 1: with each other.

1005
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 7: You know, over time.

1006
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 8: It doesn't just go immediately back to like over super

1007
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 8: you know, super close. Take some time to get back there,

1008
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 8: but yeah, eventually we end up back, you know, two

1009
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 8: peas in a pod kind of thing.

1010
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 7: We've never gotten.

1011
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 8: Like fully, you know, back to where we were, like

1012
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 8: when we were when I was a kid.

1013
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: But see, you just almost said when we were kids.

1014
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 1: That's how you think of her as a kid, you know,

1015
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 1: because that's how she is behaving probably and how you

1016
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 1: guys travel and bonded in the first place, because you

1017
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 1: were both in a situation where you felt like you

1018
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: were being treated like children or you were acting like

1019
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 1: children when you were a child and she wasn't. So

1020
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: trauma bonding is very very complicated. And you do you

1021
00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: have a therapist that you see Yeah?

1022
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, Oh you think I'm surviving out of there?

1023
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1024
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 4: Well, do you have other trans people in your life

1025
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 4: that are like lifting you up?

1026
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:09,280
Speaker 7: Not closely?

1027
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 6: You know.

1028
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,359
Speaker 8: I'm part of a few online groups that I reach

1029
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 8: out to occasionally for support for my transition goals, but

1030
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:17,720
Speaker 8: I'm not like close with any trans people.

1031
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:18,280
Speaker 1: Really.

1032
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 4: Well, I'll be close to you.

1033
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 7: Breezed by all means. I would love that because it's.

1034
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is hard. Where are you? Where do you live?

1035
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:29,800
Speaker 7: I'm in the Portland area.

1036
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 1: Okay.

1037
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, we should get you connected with

1038
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 3: Shane from season one.

1039
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, in prison is not a joke, right, Yeah,

1040
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 1: we'll follow each other. Yeah, we have to connect you

1041
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 1: with Shane too. He transitions as well.

1042
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 3: And didn't tell his family for like eight years.

1043
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 7: Yes, yeah, yeah, so that's the way to do it.

1044
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's that's a very good goal for you.

1045
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: Also is to have a little bit more of a

1046
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 1: community for you, So you know, take Dylan up on

1047
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 1: her offering and you guys can connect online and also

1048
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,279
Speaker 1: we'll connect you with Shane. But yeah, I think you

1049
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,760
Speaker 1: need a time out from your mom, and I think

1050
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 1: before you reintroduce her back into your life, then you're

1051
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 1: going to have to really set some clear boundaries for

1052
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 1: your own mental health. You know, don't follow her, you

1053
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 1: don't need to be exposed to any of that what

1054
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 1: Catherine said. But also for her to be able to

1055
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: be in your life, she has to meet certain requirements

1056
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 1: and that's up to you what those have to be.

1057
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 1: But I would suggest that one of them should be

1058
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: truthful to the person that she's marrying about the truth

1059
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: of your situation, because any secret builds shame and it's unnecessary.

1060
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:39,439
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1061
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,319
Speaker 8: Actually, you know, I finished reading this book, Healing the

1062
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 8: Shame that Binds You by John Bradshaw, and I really

1063
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:47,959
Speaker 8: I loved it that I'm a huge like reading Kike lately,

1064
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 8: and I really enjoyed that book because it's all about

1065
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:50,720
Speaker 8: toxic shame.

1066
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 7: And I sent it to my mom.

1067
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 8: I was like, you should really read this and she's like, oh, yeah,

1068
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 8: I'll check it out. I don't know what she actually will,

1069
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,359
Speaker 8: but if she does, maybe an old teacher a few

1070
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 8: helpful lessons.

1071
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 4: Hey, you gave her a resource and now it's a

1072
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 4: two way street, and she can meet you halfway. It's

1073
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 4: the least she can do.

1074
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 7: We'll see.

1075
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, how does it feel to you when

1076
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 1: we say to take a break from your mother? How

1077
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 1: does that make you feel?

1078
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 8: I mean, it's something that I've done before, and something

1079
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 8: that I'm fully aware is logical and reasonable and something

1080
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 8: that is good for me by all accounts.

1081
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 1: And will you let her know you're taking a break

1082
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: or you'll just phase out?

1083
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 7: It'll probably just phase out.

1084
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 8: I mean she already senses distance between us, you know,

1085
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 8: like she and that'll make her even try to cling

1086
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:38,760
Speaker 8: harder because she she'll randomly guilt me about certain things

1087
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 8: when she senses that distance, like I know I haven't

1088
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 8: been the best mother, and you know, but you turned

1089
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 8: out so great despite me.

1090
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,760
Speaker 4: That kind of thing and actions speak louder than words.

1091
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think it would be benefit. I'm always

1092
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 1: into writing a letter, like, even if it's a goodbye letter,

1093
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 1: it's nice to write it. Whether you send it or

1094
00:50:57,920 --> 00:50:59,919
Speaker 1: not is up to you. And maybe this is something

1095
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,800
Speaker 1: you can discuss further with your therapist. But you should

1096
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 1: write a letter about how it feels for your mother

1097
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 1: to deny who you are.

1098
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 8: Oh, I got you beat on that. I don't mean

1099
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 8: to interrupt you, but I like an hour long video.

1100
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 7: This is the last time we didn't speak for like

1101
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 7: six months.

1102
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 8: I really heard like a, yeah, an hour long video,

1103
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 8: like this is all the abuse that you put me through.

1104
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 7: I'm tired of you, like hating on me and.

1105
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 8: Other trans people and you know, minorities and like all

1106
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 8: this shit that you post online.

1107
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:30,799
Speaker 7: I'm sick of it. It was literally like an hour

1108
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:31,320
Speaker 7: long video.

1109
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 8: And her response to me was just I'm so tired

1110
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 8: of you, you know, hating on me just because of

1111
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 8: my political views. I've walked on eggshells around you for

1112
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 8: the last five years. You know, I think we just

1113
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 8: need a break from each other.

1114
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:44,359
Speaker 7: It is basically what.

1115
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:48,320
Speaker 1: She said, political views. Yeah, it's like it's called human rights.

1116
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 8: Totally disregarded everything I said about, you know, the abuse

1117
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,800
Speaker 8: and the way she treats me and me being trans.

1118
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 8: If you just disregard all that, I was just like, sorry,

1119
00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 8: my politics, and then you let's take a break.

1120
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: From Yeah, Well, maybe it's not so accusatory, or maybe

1121
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: it's not such an indictment of her, and maybe you

1122
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: can make it short and sweet and put it in writing,

1123
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 1: so it's not even you speaking, so she can't be misinterpreted,

1124
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 1: just saying how much I love you. You're my mother.

1125
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:15,879
Speaker 1: You know you give birth to me. We've been through

1126
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 1: a lot together and now I have to get healthy

1127
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 1: and I can't do that when my true personhood is

1128
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 1: being denied by the person who gave birth to me.

1129
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 1: And make it so simple and not make it about

1130
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,359
Speaker 1: you did this, you did this, you did this. It's

1131
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 1: about how you feel and why you have to move on.

1132
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 1: And of course she may not accept that or think

1133
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: it's garbage or dismiss it, but it's a nice way

1134
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 1: of ending or putting like a pin in something without

1135
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: having anything left unseid or unspoken. It's not mandatory, but

1136
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: if you feel like doing something like that and writing

1137
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 1: something short and sweet that isn't nasty or harmful, but

1138
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,720
Speaker 1: it's about you and your growth. It might be something

1139
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 1: that sits better with her because she's obviously on the

1140
00:52:58,160 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 1: defense all the time.

1141
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 4: Maybe could be like what you would love to have

1142
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 4: in a mom and in not how she's not those things.

1143
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 4: But like I think now, it's you aren't a child anymore,

1144
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 4: and so you get to redefine this relationship of what

1145
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 4: does a parent mean to you now? And these are

1146
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 4: the things that you know, is it. I need a cheerleader.

1147
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 4: I need someone who's we call each other every week

1148
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 4: just to check in or you know, getting very specific

1149
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 4: about like what that relationship that you want to look like,

1150
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 4: and that could be far away, but I just I

1151
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 4: really feel for you. I personally have actually been through

1152
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,440
Speaker 4: something a little similar as of recently. I want to

1153
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 4: tell you that it's it's going to be okay. And

1154
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:41,280
Speaker 4: I'm just I want you to have all the trans

1155
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 4: people in your life, I think trans masculine people also

1156
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:48,840
Speaker 4: to make sure that you feel so supported, that you

1157
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 4: know your magic and that you are so loved.

1158
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 7: Thank you. I really appreciate that.

1159
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:56,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, you are loved, so like know that you what

1160
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 1: you did is really really brave, Like you're a brave

1161
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 1: person and you don't have to subject yourself to people

1162
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 1: that make you feel less. Then it's just not your responsibility.

1163
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 1: You're not responsible for your mother, You're not responsible for

1164
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 1: anything but your own decency and like humanness, you know

1165
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:13,400
Speaker 1: what I mean. And as long as you're following your

1166
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:15,879
Speaker 1: gut and you're following your instinct, and you're being good

1167
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 1: to people around you and being loving and caring of others.

1168
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:23,720
Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with that. That's a beautiful, beautiful thing.

1169
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: And the road that you got here, like it sounds

1170
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 1: like you've been through a lot of trauma. You don't

1171
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: deserve any more trauma.

1172
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,919
Speaker 7: Yeah, I definitely don't want anymore. You tell you that.

1173
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, Dane, thank you so much for sharing with us.

1174
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 3: I know this is really really tough stuff.

1175
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're sending you a lot of love, honey, bunny. Yeah.

1176
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:43,840
Speaker 8: When I was writing into you, guys, I was just

1177
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 8: thinking of the Martha Stewart episode where she's like, Chelsea,

1178
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 8: you get some really heavy shit on here.

1179
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. Meanwhile, Martha was not fucking ready for them. I

1180
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 1: was all right, Martha, this might not be the right

1181
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:56,320
Speaker 1: person to have. Got people calling st and she can't

1182
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 1: relate to anybody normally.

1183
00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 7: She listens to this, She's like.

1184
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,720
Speaker 1: Won't be listening to this. I promise you. She's baking.

1185
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 7: Yes, she's baked.

1186
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's baked. Oh, poor Martha. Okay, well, Dane, keep

1187
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 1: in touch with us. Okay, if you need anything ever, again,

1188
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 1: let us know. Okay. The idea of all these people,

1189
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 1: these parents. I don't understand how parents can disown their

1190
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 1: own child. I, as a non parent, wouldn't be able

1191
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: to disown a human being that came to me and

1192
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 1: said I'm different than what we thought, you know, like

1193
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 1: or whatever, like it doesn't even have to be related

1194
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 1: to me. So I don't understand this. Like, I guess

1195
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:46,320
Speaker 1: I'm just in a bubble. I am in a bubble.

1196
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 4: Well, we have one last holler.

1197
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 3: And I thought this was a good question because it

1198
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:57,799
Speaker 3: sort of has less to do with actually dating and

1199
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 3: more to do with how other people perceive as we

1200
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 3: move through the world. After talking to her, but Marie says,

1201
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:07,280
Speaker 3: Dear Chelsea, I'm a thirty one year old woman currently

1202
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 3: living in North Carolina. I realized in my late twenties

1203
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 3: that I was not attracted to men. After years of

1204
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 3: suppressing my attraction to women, I've been on several dates

1205
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,360
Speaker 3: with women who I feel attracted to. The dates have

1206
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 3: gone well. When I ask that person out again, I'm

1207
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,399
Speaker 3: always hit with, oh, well, I'm not looking to date

1208
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 3: anyone currently, or I just didn't feel anything romantic with you.

1209
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 3: If this happened once or twice, I'd be able to

1210
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:32,240
Speaker 3: brush it off. However, this has happened after every single

1211
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:35,320
Speaker 3: date I've had or every connection I make on dating apps.

1212
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 3: I appreciate the honesty from these women, and I appreciate

1213
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 3: their communication versus being ghosted, but I feel like maybe

1214
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,239
Speaker 3: I'm undateable. Do you have any advice for me or

1215
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 3: other people currently struggling with the challenges of dating in

1216
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 3: the modern world?

1217
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 1: Marie, Hi, Marie, Hi, Marie, Hi, Chelsea, Hi, Hi, how

1218
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:53,839
Speaker 1: are you.

1219
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:55,479
Speaker 2: I'm doing well? How are you doing?

1220
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:58,919
Speaker 1: We're good. This is Dylan Milvaney. She's our special guest today,

1221
00:56:59,000 --> 00:56:59,919
Speaker 1: So say hello to Dyla.

1222
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 4: Hi, Dylan, nice to meet Marie.

1223
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 2: Nice to meet you.

1224
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 1: So, just to rewind, just to recap, you said, as

1225
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,919
Speaker 1: as you started becoming interested in women, it's been more

1226
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 1: difficult to date.

1227
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1228
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 6: So I was definitely struggling with figuring out who I

1229
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 6: was attracted to because I was dating men at the

1230
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 6: time and I just absolutely was not attracted to them.

1231
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 2: Going out on these dates.

1232
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 6: So I started talking to a few friends and one

1233
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 6: of my friends had suggested, you know, maybe maybe you're actually,

1234
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 6: you know, attracted to women, you should try dating some women,

1235
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 6: just trying to, you know, figure out who you are.

1236
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 2: Of course, it.

1237
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 6: Was also COVID lockdowns, and then with the challenges of

1238
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 6: working a pretty busy job and then starting school, I

1239
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 6: just wasn't really focused on my dating life until probably

1240
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,960
Speaker 6: around the end of twenty twenty two, and then, you know,

1241
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 6: starting twenty twenty three is when I really kind of

1242
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 6: started seriously getting back into the you know, the dating game.

1243
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:03,920
Speaker 6: With the past couple of dates I've went on, I

1244
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 6: felt like the connection was really great through text messaging.

1245
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 6: I thought the dates were going really well, we had

1246
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 6: a lot of good chemistry. But afterwards, when I'd go

1247
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 6: to ask these women out again, I'd be told like, hey,

1248
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:19,439
Speaker 6: you know, I'm not really feeling a connection here. You know, hey,

1249
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 6: I'm not really thinking about dating at this time, and

1250
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 6: I'm not sure if I'm doing something unintentionally or subconsciously

1251
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 6: where I'm putting off like a vibe of like, hey,

1252
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 6: maybe you know I'm not interested in this person or

1253
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 6: anything like that. I'm just not sure if I potentially

1254
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 6: could be doing something that would be causing that.

1255
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 1: How many dates were you did you go on.

1256
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 2: I've been on three so far.

1257
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 6: I've asked out probably a total of five people to

1258
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 6: the people I've asked out, you know, they told me like, hey,

1259
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 6: I'm not looking the date right now, or hey, I'm sorry,

1260
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 6: I just I just started in a relationship with somebody else.

1261
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 6: And then the three actual physical dates I've been on,

1262
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 6: I've been ghosted by one person and you know, the

1263
00:58:57,640 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 6: other person is like, hey, you know, not really feeling

1264
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 6: a here. And then the last one was really the

1265
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 6: kind of the one that hurt the most because I

1266
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:07,880
Speaker 6: did feel probably the most chemistry with this individual. The

1267
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 6: date went really well, and I'm not much of a hugger,

1268
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 6: but she went to hug me at the end of

1269
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 6: the night, and I, you know, I hugged her back,

1270
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 6: and I was really hoping that maybe, you know, she'd

1271
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:18,160
Speaker 6: want to go out with me again.

1272
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 2: But I went to ask like a week later.

1273
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 6: And she told me like, hey, you no, sorry, I'm

1274
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 6: I'm that interested in like dating at this time.

1275
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 1: Okay, do you feel like something's happening on these dates?

1276
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:29,920
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you have a decent sense of

1277
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 1: self awareness? Is the question.

1278
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, I do feel like I have a decent sense

1279
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 6: of self awareness. I do feel that I'm a pretty

1280
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:40,440
Speaker 6: confident individual, and I do try to be an active

1281
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 6: listener when I am going out with these people, so

1282
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 6: you know, if they tell me something, asking a follow

1283
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 6: up question, you know, related to the conversation we've been having.

1284
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 6: I'm not sure if there's something subconsciously I could be

1285
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 6: doing that would be giving off that vibe. But I

1286
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 6: do feel like I'm pretty self aware when I am

1287
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:57,440
Speaker 6: on these dates.

1288
00:59:57,720 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, what I would say is, first of all,

1289
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 1: you sh relax your attitude about the whole thing, Okay,

1290
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 1: because life is about rejection. You're gonna get rejected a

1291
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 1: ton of times. It's going to happen again, it's going

1292
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:09,520
Speaker 1: to keep happening, you know what I mean. And then

1293
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: there're gonna be people in between that you're going to

1294
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 1: date and that you're going to have and it's going

1295
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 1: to be mutual. You need to look at this just

1296
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 1: kind of change your perspective. I think we'll change the

1297
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 1: outcome a lot. I think you should look at these

1298
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 1: things as more casual and be a little bit lighter.

1299
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 1: If you can figure a way out, a way to

1300
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 1: really relax yourself before you go on these dates so

1301
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 1: that you're not coming off too strong or you're not

1302
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 1: coming off too rigid. I know you said you're not

1303
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 1: a hugger, like that can kind of send out a

1304
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 1: certain energy when people don't like to be hugged. When

1305
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 1: someone goes in for a hug and that person's not

1306
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 1: a hugger, you can feel it, and that can kind

1307
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 1: of be a chasm. Do you meditate it all?

1308
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 2: I've started to get into the meditation.

1309
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 6: I had downloaded the call app yesterday and I've been

1310
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 6: starting to get into that a little bit.

1311
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:50,360
Speaker 1: Is that what you use?

1312
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 4: Well, I was just going to say it's the universe

1313
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:55,440
Speaker 4: must have been tapping you on the shoulder, because that's

1314
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 4: a good app. And I wanted to know what city

1315
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 4: do you live in? Cause I'm available.

1316
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:03,680
Speaker 6: I'm kidding the closest big city that I'm located to

1317
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:05,959
Speaker 6: would be able to Okay.

1318
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 4: I was just curious about what the lesbian scene is

1319
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 4: like out there because my with experience now being around

1320
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 4: some lesbians out here, they stick together. You know, we

1321
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:18,479
Speaker 4: travel in packs. Well, I'm I go both ways right now,

1322
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 4: but I will say that maybe if you can insert

1323
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 4: yourself into just being friends with some gals who like

1324
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 4: goals in your area, that way, you know, people can

1325
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 4: get to know you, or these potential women can see you,

1326
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 4: they can experience you, get your personality, get at your quarks.

1327
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:39,439
Speaker 4: They'll learn that you maybe aren't a hugger, but love

1328
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 4: that about you, and and then something could potentially happen

1329
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 4: more organically. Whereas right now, if you're meeting people online,

1330
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 4: there's this precedent like, oh, we're here not to be friends,

1331
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 4: we're here to potentially date, and that's a lot of pressure.

1332
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 4: Whereas I think in the queer community, so much of

1333
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 4: it happens in person. It happens at you know, a

1334
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 4: gay bar or a bonfire, you know, just that fun,

1335
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 4: lively queer connection. So I would almost take a detour

1336
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 4: from the dating and really focus on finding some amazing

1337
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 4: lesbian friends that can also help guide you to some

1338
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 4: other people hopefully nearby.

1339
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1340
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:19,520
Speaker 3: I think that's that's really good advice. And making it

1341
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 3: a numbers game. So going on lots of first dates,

1342
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 3: think of first dates as just like throwaways a little bit,

1343
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 3: give it as.

1344
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:29,960
Speaker 1: Practice, like just exactly, you don't you don't have to

1345
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 1: look at the date like, uh, okay, I hope this

1346
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 1: is the one. You can look at it as like

1347
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 1: what a great way to get to know how to

1348
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 1: do this better? And how to relax yourself so there's

1349
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 1: not so much pressure each time you go out. It's

1350
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 1: almost like if you overdate for a little bit, you

1351
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 1: get more comfortable with dating.

1352
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and I know you have a really

1353
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 3: intense job and she's in the army.

1354
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 1: As I could tell, I was gonna say, are you

1355
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 1: in the military.

1356
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:55,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, So maybe you know, not going on a date

1357
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:57,760
Speaker 3: right after work where you have to bring that intensity,

1358
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:01,120
Speaker 3: you know, maybe taking some time to breathe, to decompress,

1359
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 3: listen to some like nice music, move your body a

1360
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:05,920
Speaker 3: little bit before you go on a date, so you're

1361
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:08,600
Speaker 3: just like feeling loose and free and like having a

1362
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 3: good time when you get Yeah.

1363
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 1: I would say, you come across as you have this

1364
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:14,360
Speaker 1: kind of intense energy, which is a wonderful thing. But

1365
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 1: now it makes sense, like you do need to decompress,

1366
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 1: you do need to meditate, you do need to relax

1367
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 1: so that you can so you're not bringing your job

1368
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 1: to your dates with you, right. I'm sure your job

1369
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 1: is a huge part of your life, but until you

1370
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:29,800
Speaker 1: get to know somebody, that's not their responsibility. So you know,

1371
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 1: you have to just I think your job from here

1372
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 1: from this phone call, your takeaway should be ways to

1373
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:38,000
Speaker 1: really calm yourself so that you're walking into this with

1374
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 1: an energy of fun, not Okay, I'm going to conquer this,

1375
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:43,560
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like I'm going to get

1376
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 1: my girlfriend. You should go in and as like experiential,

1377
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:48,080
Speaker 1: like Okay, this is going to be wonderful. I'm going

1378
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:49,520
Speaker 1: to learn about this person. And then I'm going to

1379
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 1: learn about this person. And it's not so methodical. It

1380
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 1: can be a more casual experience. And like what Dylan

1381
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:58,800
Speaker 1: was saying, do you do you have a group of friends.

1382
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:01,560
Speaker 1: Do you have a group of lesbians or any friends

1383
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:02,440
Speaker 1: that are lesbians?

1384
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 2: Nobody really close by.

1385
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 6: But I did join like a meetup group where it

1386
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 6: was you know, a yeah, LGBP, let's go on hikes

1387
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 6: on the weekend, activities like that that I was thinking about,

1388
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 6: like meeting up with some of those people on a

1389
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 6: you know, week hike.

1390
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 4: I'm obsessed with that. And you already made that initial step.

1391
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 4: And I'm someone I'll be honest with you, I haven't

1392
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:27,000
Speaker 4: even been kissed as a girl yet, and I've never

1393
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 4: dated anyone seriously, and I just think that we are

1394
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 4: going to find someone amazing, and it probably might even

1395
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:36,200
Speaker 4: happen in person, because if these apps don't, I don't

1396
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:37,960
Speaker 4: feel like they're working for me. It sounds like maybe

1397
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 4: you're trouble having some trouble too. Let's get in one

1398
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:42,080
Speaker 4: of those groups and let's meet some hot people.

1399
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 2: Yeah that sounds great.

1400
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it just takes one. My best girlfriend was in

1401
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:49,320
Speaker 3: a super similar position to you. She had dated guys.

1402
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:51,400
Speaker 3: I wasn't working out. She decided to date women, and

1403
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 3: she was so intimidated every time she'd go on a

1404
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 3: date that like she would call it off right afterward.

1405
01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:58,960
Speaker 3: Then she finally met someone, she's like, this is going

1406
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:01,680
Speaker 3: to be nothing. It's just a friend thing. She just

1407
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:04,360
Speaker 3: came out too, We're going to hang out. They made

1408
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 3: out for four hours and they're still together a year later.

1409
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:09,880
Speaker 3: So it just takes that one, you know.

1410
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and treat everything a little bit more lightly, like

1411
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:17,040
Speaker 1: you're just smiling, you're beautiful, you have a beautiful smile.

1412
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 1: Enjoy yourself. It doesn't have to be serious. It can

1413
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:23,240
Speaker 1: be fun, and so just focus on the aspects of

1414
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 1: fun and relaxation and being present and it will be

1415
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 1: a lot easier for you. You know, you won't feel so

1416
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 1: rejected when something doesn't work out. There's no reason to

1417
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 1: feel that way. There's eight billion people in this world.

1418
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:37,920
Speaker 1: You know you're not going to hit it off with

1419
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 1: everybody and have sexual chemistry with everybody. That's kind of

1420
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:43,680
Speaker 1: a natural selection sort of thing. So just try and

1421
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 1: take it down a notch in terms of your expectations

1422
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 1: and being so kind of rigid or regimented about them.

1423
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:52,480
Speaker 2: Sure. Sure, that's all great advice. I really appreciate it

1424
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 2: from everybody here.

1425
01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:56,240
Speaker 1: And start that calm. You're going to see a difference

1426
01:05:56,320 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 1: in your in the way you feel five or ten

1427
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:00,840
Speaker 1: minutes a day, and you'll start to feel differently. I

1428
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:01,360
Speaker 1: promise that.

1429
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:02,760
Speaker 2: All right, sounds good.

1430
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:06,560
Speaker 3: Well, thank you so much, Marie posted good luck.

1431
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 1: We hope you get some poutang soon.

1432
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:09,600
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1433
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 1: Ah ay oh that was so cute. Immediately when she

1434
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 1: started talking, I'm like, she the fucking army or what

1435
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:21,320
Speaker 1: with that day? This and the hair and the thing.

1436
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:22,920
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh my god, when you said that,

1437
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 1: I was going to say, do you work in the military.

1438
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:27,560
Speaker 3: Completely When she first when we had our pre interview call,

1439
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:29,960
Speaker 3: she was in like her military garb, and I was like.

1440
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 4: Wow, I'm so afraid and intimidated right now. It was

1441
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 4: like hot but intimidating.

1442
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 1: But also imagine that balance, like when you're doing that,

1443
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:40,240
Speaker 1: you're serving in the armed forces, and then you're supposed

1444
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:41,760
Speaker 1: to have like this casual encounter.

1445
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 4: It doesn't you can't approach it the same way at all.

1446
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 1: Right, No, it's a total seesaw. So yeah, so that

1447
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:50,200
Speaker 1: makes sense anyway, Okay, well, oh we're going to wrap up.

1448
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 1: Will take a break and we're going to wrap up

1449
01:06:52,800 --> 01:07:01,120
Speaker 1: with Dylan mulvaney and we're back. We're back. We're just

1450
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 1: a delight, just an absolute delight having you, hear, Dylan,

1451
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 1: I loved you before I met you, and I love

1452
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 1: you now and I just can't wait to see what's

1453
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:09,680
Speaker 1: in store for you.

1454
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 4: I'm so excited. I do have one question for you

1455
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:14,600
Speaker 4: before I leave. So we just talked about how miss

1456
01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 4: Marie there doesn't have anyone I have yet to be

1457
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:19,400
Speaker 4: kissed as a girl. I wanted to know, do you

1458
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 4: think it would be better for me to rip off

1459
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:24,439
Speaker 4: the band aid and just get it done or should

1460
01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:25,720
Speaker 4: I save it for someone special?

1461
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 1: I'm always about ripping off the band aid.

1462
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 4: I think I just you know what it was I

1463
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:33,000
Speaker 4: needed to hear it from you, and so tonight I'm

1464
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 4: gonna hit the towel.

1465
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 1: I love it well, report back, will do. Thank you, Dylan,

1466
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 1: Thank you, everybody. See you next week.

1467
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:41,640
Speaker 4: Love you.

1468
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 3: If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email

1469
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:48,000
Speaker 3: at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be

1470
01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:51,080
Speaker 3: sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited

1471
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:54,720
Speaker 3: and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine Law and

1472
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 3: be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot

1473
01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:59,439
Speaker 3: com