WEBVTT - From the Vault: Meteoric Metal and Alien Iron, Part 1

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name

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<v Speaker 1>is Robert Lamb. We're out this week, so we have

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<v Speaker 1>some episodes from the vault here for you. This is

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<v Speaker 1>going to be part one of our series on meteoric

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<v Speaker 1>metal and alien iron. This one originally published five seven,

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My

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<v Speaker 1>name is Robert Lamb.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm Joe McCormick. And today on Stuff to Blow

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<v Speaker 3>Your Mind, we wanted to kick off a series of

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<v Speaker 3>episodes on tools, blades, weapons, artifacts, ceremonial ornaments, and various

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<v Speaker 3>things things made by humans out of materials that came

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<v Speaker 3>from outer space, particularly stuff made from mediorite iron.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So, whether you've listened to our show before or not,

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<v Speaker 1>you're probably familiar with the three age system of classifying

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<v Speaker 1>ancient civilizations, defining them by their material and the technological

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<v Speaker 1>level of advancement for that given civilization. And this is

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<v Speaker 1>not without its complexity and even its controversy, as we'll

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<v Speaker 1>get into, but it divides things into the Stone Age,

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<v Speaker 1>the Bronze Age, and the Iron Age. In this series

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<v Speaker 1>of episodes, from stuff to blow your mind. We're going

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<v Speaker 1>to be dealing predominantly with the age of bronze, typified

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<v Speaker 1>by its bronze production and lasting very roughly, and these

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<v Speaker 1>dates are not solid for all places and civilizations. A

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<v Speaker 1>strong caveat there from somewhere around thirty three hundred to

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<v Speaker 1>twelve hundred BCE. So we're dealing with a very amorphous

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<v Speaker 1>period of time here, and the transference into the Age

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<v Speaker 1>of Iron is much the same. But before we jump

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<v Speaker 1>into the key example that we're going to be looking

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<v Speaker 1>at in this episode, I just wanted to share a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of quotes to perhaps help put this time frame

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<v Speaker 1>in perspective and even cast a different light on civilization

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<v Speaker 1>before the widespread production and use of iron. Both of

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<v Speaker 1>these are from books that deal more specifically with Chinese

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<v Speaker 1>technology and Chinese history, but I believe some of the

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<v Speaker 1>takeaways from both of these quotes are just appliable across

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<v Speaker 1>the board. So this first one is a quote from

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<v Speaker 1>John Key in his book A History of China. He writes, quote, Indeed,

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<v Speaker 1>bronze came to occupy much the same position in ancient

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<v Speaker 1>China as stone in the contemporary civilization of Egypt or

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<v Speaker 1>later those of Iran, Persia and Greece. Enormous effort was

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<v Speaker 1>devoted to producing bronzewere highly sophisticated ideas were expressed through it.

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<v Speaker 1>Some of the earliest inscriptions were found on it, and

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<v Speaker 1>its durability has ensured that plentiful examples have survived. And

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<v Speaker 1>this other quote is from Joseph Needham, whose work we've

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<v Speaker 1>discussed in the show before, from Science and Society in

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<v Speaker 1>Ancient China quote, it looks as if the earliest kings

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<v Speaker 1>or feudal princes recognized bronze metallurgy to be the basis

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<v Speaker 1>of feudal power over the Neolithic peasantry because of the

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<v Speaker 1>superior arms which it rendered possible, and therefore they appropriated

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<v Speaker 1>that the technique of metalworking. So what I like about

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<v Speaker 1>these two quotes is I think they helped drive home

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<v Speaker 1>that bronze was not only a material for tools, but

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<v Speaker 1>a material through which culture was made manifest, as well

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<v Speaker 1>as a source of power, both in physical weaponry and

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<v Speaker 1>even just as an idea. And while these examples, again

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<v Speaker 1>are both from texts that focus exclusively on Chinese history,

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<v Speaker 1>I think you can sort of get a broader take

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<v Speaker 1>home from them, Like I said earlier, So on top

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<v Speaker 1>of that, I would say, also, I think it's essential

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<v Speaker 1>to keep in mind that the Bronze age was far

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<v Speaker 1>from just a period between or a precursor to something

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<v Speaker 1>better or more advanced. It was a time of great

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<v Speaker 1>technological and cultural advancement. It was the age of the

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<v Speaker 1>wheel of irrigation, writing systems, enhanced weaponry, and much more.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's not merely the time before iron. It is

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<v Speaker 1>the time that gave birth to iron technology as well well.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think that can really be driven home in

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<v Speaker 3>the fact that iron is not even necessarily for all

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<v Speaker 3>uses a superior metal to bronze. Bronze could be considered

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<v Speaker 3>materially superior in some ways. It's just that iron, once

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<v Speaker 3>you have the technology to smelt it and then work

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<v Speaker 3>it in the high temperatures you need, it is easier

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<v Speaker 3>to produce at mass scales and cheaper.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, there's definitely from what I've read, there's

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<v Speaker 1>definitely a period of time in which your early smelted

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<v Speaker 1>iron tools, weapons, what have you are not going to

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<v Speaker 1>be as durable and as highly efficient as the high

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<v Speaker 1>end bronze weapons and tools of that same time period.

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<v Speaker 4>But you can make more of them.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, right, But eventually, of course iron comes to.

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<v Speaker 3>Dominate, especially in the form of steel.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I know some will say steel isn't strong, flesh

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<v Speaker 1>is strong, YadA, YadA, YadA, but steel's pretty strong. Well.

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<v Speaker 3>I do want to start within one of the regional

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<v Speaker 3>Bronze ages to start off today's episode by looking at

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<v Speaker 3>a very intriguing and mysterious artifact from ancient Egypt. This

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<v Speaker 3>is a dagger from the stars found buried alongside the

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<v Speaker 3>pharaoh tutin Common. So the tomb of the eighteenth dynasty

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<v Speaker 3>Egyptian pharaoh tutin Common was uncovered by the British archaeologist

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<v Speaker 3>Howard Carter and his team in nineteen twenty two. Tuton

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<v Speaker 3>Common reigned from thirteen sixty one to thirteen fifty two BCE,

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<v Speaker 3>becoming king around the age of nine or so, unruling

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<v Speaker 3>until his early death around the age of eighteen. Tutin

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<v Speaker 3>Common is thought to have been a son of the

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<v Speaker 3>pharaoh Akinaten, though from what I understand this relationship is

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<v Speaker 3>not totally certain. There is a DNA relation to another

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<v Speaker 3>mummy that has been found that is presumed to be Acinatin,

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<v Speaker 3>but it's not known for sure. Acintin, his likely father,

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<v Speaker 3>was notable for trying to replace the traditional polytheistic religion

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<v Speaker 3>of Egypt with a it's debatable how to characterize this,

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<v Speaker 3>but a monotheistic or monolteristic or perhaps henotheistic, whatever you

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<v Speaker 3>call it, focus on a single god, an emphasis of

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<v Speaker 3>one God above all the others from the Egyptian pantheon,

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<v Speaker 3>and that is the solar deity Aughtan, which took the

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<v Speaker 3>form of the disk of the Sun. We've talked about

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<v Speaker 3>that sort of attempt to go one God early in

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<v Speaker 3>Egypt before, but this shift did not last long after

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<v Speaker 3>Acinatin's death, and one of Tutonkommon's main accomplishments as pharaoh

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<v Speaker 3>seems to have been the restoration of the old polytheistic cults.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the rejection of new coke and the reacceptance of

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<v Speaker 1>old coke.

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<v Speaker 3>Play in the hits getting the old gang together. So

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<v Speaker 3>Tummons Tomb was considered a very special discovery in the

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<v Speaker 3>twentieth century because even though it had been partially looted

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<v Speaker 3>at least twice shortly after it was sealed, it was

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<v Speaker 3>still considered relatively intact compared to other tombs. So many

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<v Speaker 3>of the original grave goods were still in place, and

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<v Speaker 3>this was not really the case at all for most

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<v Speaker 3>of the other royal tombs of ancient Egypt. They were

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<v Speaker 3>mostly scoured by grave robbers thousands of years ago. This

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<v Speaker 3>is sometimes misstated as saying that that tuten Coommon's Tune

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<v Speaker 3>tomb had never been disturbed, and that's not true. It

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<v Speaker 3>was robbed long ago like all the rest of them,

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<v Speaker 3>it just didn't get robbed as much. And some have

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<v Speaker 3>speculated that Tuten Common's tomb was relatively well preserved because

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<v Speaker 3>the entrance got covered up by stuff and people pretty

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<v Speaker 3>quickly forgot where it was. And so when this tomb

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<v Speaker 3>was rediscovered in the twentieth century, it contained a wealth

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<v Speaker 3>of treasures and a beautiful, wonderful glimpse into the past.

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<v Speaker 3>So for a taste of the variety of objects found

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<v Speaker 3>in the tomb, I just wanted to read directly from

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<v Speaker 3>the diary entry of Howard Carter describing the day of

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<v Speaker 3>November twenty sixth, nineteen twenty two, when his team finally

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<v Speaker 3>cleared away the last of the rubble from the passageway

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<v Speaker 3>into the tomb and got the first look inside. So

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<v Speaker 3>Carter writes, quote, it was some time before one could see.

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<v Speaker 3>The hot air escaping caused the candle to flicker, But

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<v Speaker 3>as soon as one's eyes became accustomed to the glimmer

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<v Speaker 3>of light, the interior of the chamber gradually loomed before one,

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<v Speaker 3>with its strange and wonderful medley of extraordinary and beautiful

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<v Speaker 3>objects heaped upon one another. There was naturally short suspense

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<v Speaker 3>for those present who could not see. When Lord Carnivon

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<v Speaker 3>said to me, can you see anything? I replied to him, yes,

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<v Speaker 3>it is wonderful. I then, with precaution, made the whole

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<v Speaker 3>sufficiently large for both of us to see. With the

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<v Speaker 3>light of an electric torch as well as an additional candle,

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<v Speaker 3>we looked in. Our sensations and astonishment are difficult to describe,

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<v Speaker 3>as the better light revealed to us the marvelous collection

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<v Speaker 3>of treasures. Two strange ebony black effigies of a king,

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<v Speaker 3>gold sandaled bearing staff and mace loomed out from the

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<v Speaker 3>cloak of darkness. Gilded couches in strange forms lion headed,

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<v Speaker 3>hathor headed, and beast infernal, exquisitely painted inlaid and ornamental caskets, flowers,

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<v Speaker 3>alabaster vases, some beautifully executed of lotus and papyrus device,

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<v Speaker 3>strange black shrines with a gilded monster snake appearing from within,

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<v Speaker 3>quite ordinary looking white chests, finely carved chairs, a golden

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<v Speaker 3>inlaid throne, a heap of large, curious white oviform boxes

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<v Speaker 3>beneath our very eyes on the threshold, a lovely lodiform

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<v Speaker 3>wishing cup in translucent alabaster, stools of all shapes and

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<v Speaker 3>design of both common and rare materials. And lastly, a

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<v Speaker 3>confusion of overturned parts of chariots glinting with gold, peering

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<v Speaker 3>from amongst which was a mannequin, the first impression of

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<v Speaker 3>which suggested the property room of an opera of a

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<v Speaker 3>vanished civilization. Our sensations were bewildering and full of strange emotion.

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<v Speaker 3>We questioned one another as to the meaning of it all.

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<v Speaker 3>Was it a tomb or merely a cash A sealed

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<v Speaker 3>doorway between the two sentinel statues proved there was more beyond,

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<v Speaker 3>and with the numerous cartouches bearing the name of Touton

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<v Speaker 3>common on most of the objects before us, there was

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<v Speaker 3>little doubt that there behind was the grave of that pharaoh.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I like the atmosphere. He captures here in

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<v Speaker 1>this description.

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<v Speaker 3>One of my favorite things is the description of the

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<v Speaker 3>disassembled parts of the chariot all there piled.

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<v Speaker 4>Up in the tomb.

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<v Speaker 3>Anyway, documenting the contents of the tomb went on for

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<v Speaker 3>years after the initial discovery, and one of the objects

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<v Speaker 3>found later, this was in nineteen twenty five. This was

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<v Speaker 3>buried right alone along with the pharaoh's body. One of

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<v Speaker 3>these artifacts, it was a beautiful dagger. In fact, there

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<v Speaker 3>were two daggers buried with toot and common, one made

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<v Speaker 3>of gold and another made of iron. And ironically it's

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<v Speaker 3>the iron dagger that I would like to focus on,

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<v Speaker 3>so Rob, I've got some pictures for you to look

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<v Speaker 3>at here, sort of like with different sides of the

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<v Speaker 3>dagger facing and then different types of illumination. But the

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<v Speaker 3>iron dagger is a little over a foot long, and

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<v Speaker 3>it was found not only within the king's tomb, but

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<v Speaker 3>with his mummified remains inside the inner coffin, and in fact,

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<v Speaker 3>not only in the inner coffin, but literally inside the

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<v Speaker 3>king's wrappings, so wrapped up with him up against his thigh,

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<v Speaker 3>the gold dagger was apparently on his abdomen.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a very splendid looking weapon, and there are

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<v Speaker 1>no shortage of images of this, you can easily look

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<v Speaker 1>up online.

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<v Speaker 3>So the knife has a handle made out of gold

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<v Speaker 3>with a crystal knob on the end, sort of very

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<v Speaker 3>smooth and rounded off crystal knob, and a golden sheath

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<v Speaker 3>decorated with images of on one part a repeating feather pattern.

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<v Speaker 3>There are flowers I think maybe supposed to be lilli's,

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<v Speaker 3>and there's also a jackal's head. And surprisingly, this dagger

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<v Speaker 3>made out of iron remained relatively rust free for all

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<v Speaker 3>these centuries. Though it does have blemishes, they're not rust Instead,

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<v Speaker 3>it has black spots in the middle that to me

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<v Speaker 3>almost look like lunar maria.

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<v Speaker 4>They're these sort.

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<v Speaker 3>Of you know, strange, beautiful little black depressions that have

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<v Speaker 3>almost geographical looking edges.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, So this.

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<v Speaker 3>Dagger made of iron was instantly quite interesting to experts

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<v Speaker 3>because it was made of iron. Toot In Common lived

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<v Speaker 3>at a time when iron artifacts were quite rare in Egypt,

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<v Speaker 3>not completely non existent, but precious and few. We associate

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<v Speaker 3>iron today with raw utility. I think of like just

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<v Speaker 3>stacks of rebar and stuff, you know, Like we think

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<v Speaker 3>of its hardness and toughness and its ready availability. So,

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<v Speaker 3>of course iron and steel, steel being a product of iron,

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<v Speaker 3>are thought of as useful for making durable workaday tools

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<v Speaker 3>machine parts, in architecture, for making bridges and framing buildings

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<v Speaker 3>and so forth. But in Tutan Commons Egypt, the evidence

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<v Speaker 3>indicates that the rare iron artifacts that did exist were

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<v Speaker 3>treated instead as sacred, decorative and ceremonial items, more like

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<v Speaker 3>we treat gold and silver today, except perhaps even more precious. Now,

0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:45.120
<v Speaker 3>why would something as cheap, abundant and mundane as iron

0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:49.400
<v Speaker 3>be treated as precious sacred material. It seems to be

0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:53.600
<v Speaker 3>because at the time iron was anything but abundant and mundane.

0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:57.480
<v Speaker 3>The mundane iron that we think of today is extracted

0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:00.000
<v Speaker 3>from iron ore that we mine out of the ground,

0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:04.520
<v Speaker 3>and then we extract in pure metallic form from its

0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:09.040
<v Speaker 3>ore form in extremely hot furnaces. And while there were

0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.040
<v Speaker 3>plenty of iron ore deposits in the deserts of Egypt,

0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:15.080
<v Speaker 3>there was not a widespread industry that was able to

0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:19.520
<v Speaker 3>separate pure metallic iron from its ore in the region

0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:25.080
<v Speaker 3>until several hundred years later. Now, why was iron harder

0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:27.880
<v Speaker 3>to work with and extract than other metals such as

0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:32.040
<v Speaker 3>the copper tin alloy that forms the basis of ancient bronze.

0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:34.600
<v Speaker 3>I think that there's sort of a more complicated answer

0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:36.880
<v Speaker 3>and a sort of a simpler answer, And the simpler

0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:39.520
<v Speaker 3>answer is basically higher melting point, Like it takes more

0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:43.840
<v Speaker 3>energy to extract iron from its ore, and it takes

0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:46.240
<v Speaker 3>more heat to make it malleable and workable once it

0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:47.080
<v Speaker 3>is extracted.

0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:49.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I remember we went into some of this

0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:51.280
<v Speaker 1>back when we did an episode on the One Ring

0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:54.400
<v Speaker 1>of the Lord of the Rings, and you know, talking

0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:56.960
<v Speaker 1>about what kind of metals would would melt or not

0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:01.080
<v Speaker 1>melt the constraints that are laid out in the text.

0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:07.120
<v Speaker 3>However, there was one source of pure or to some

0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:13.359
<v Speaker 3>degree pure metallic iron available before the smelting process was developed,

0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:19.160
<v Speaker 3>and that source of metallic iron was meteorites, chunks of

0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:23.240
<v Speaker 3>iron that fell from space. So experts have for a

0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:26.960
<v Speaker 3>long time suggested that maybe King Tut's dagger, and not

0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:29.760
<v Speaker 3>just his dagger, but other iron artifacts that were also

0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.480
<v Speaker 3>found within the tomb and other iron artifacts from ancient

0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:37.760
<v Speaker 3>Egypt from this period and before, were in fact meteoric

0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:40.720
<v Speaker 3>in origin, that they were hammered out of iron that

0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:42.440
<v Speaker 3>fell to Earth from the sky.

0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.400
<v Speaker 1>So your exploitive headline here, of course, is ancient Egyptian

0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:51.800
<v Speaker 1>to use space weapons, and I've seen various indulgences of

0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:55.160
<v Speaker 1>that sort of thing. But I mean, yeah, you're not

0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:58.000
<v Speaker 1>too far off the mark with that, even if you

0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:01.440
<v Speaker 1>are implying things that are not true as well. I've

0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:03.880
<v Speaker 1>even seen alien weapons mentioned before.

0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:07.280
<v Speaker 3>Now before those of you get too excited, no this,

0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:08.920
<v Speaker 3>this is not ancient alien stuff.

0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:09.800
<v Speaker 4>No, this would be.

0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:12.520
<v Speaker 3>This does not need to be a gift from aliens

0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:15.560
<v Speaker 3>that came from above, because meteorites still land on Earth today.

0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:18.080
<v Speaker 3>They land naturally. People can find them.

0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:21.640
<v Speaker 1>Right right, And that of course is especially true if

0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:26.040
<v Speaker 1>you if in one or two situations with meteorites, is

0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:30.920
<v Speaker 1>it dramatic in its entry or do you have an

0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:34.320
<v Speaker 1>environment in which objects like this are easy to find,

0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:37.840
<v Speaker 1>such as a desert. So you will find various desert

0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:40.960
<v Speaker 1>environments where there is a long tradition of gathering such

0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:44.560
<v Speaker 1>meteorites because they stand out more. But you know, even

0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:46.800
<v Speaker 1>if you see or think you see something fall, you

0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.760
<v Speaker 1>can also get into trouble trying to to find what

0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:54.880
<v Speaker 1>fell from the sky. We've talked about the the phenomena

0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:58.400
<v Speaker 1>of star jelly before. This is where someone sees a

0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.640
<v Speaker 1>shooting star or things of meteorite fallen in their general

0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.159
<v Speaker 1>vicinity and they go out into the woods and they

0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.080
<v Speaker 1>start poking around. Do they find something that they think

0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:09.760
<v Speaker 1>looks weird? And it may be like just some sort

0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:13.440
<v Speaker 1>of slimy substance in the forest. It's a slimy substance

0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:15.840
<v Speaker 1>that was always there or is frequently there, but they

0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:17.600
<v Speaker 1>just never went out and poked it and looked for

0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:19.560
<v Speaker 1>it before. So ultimately you have to know what you're doing.

0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:22.480
<v Speaker 1>But a desert environment can be a real gift to

0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:23.680
<v Speaker 1>the meteorite.

0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:24.600
<v Speaker 4>Hunter, that's right.

0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:28.200
<v Speaker 3>So what is a meteorite, Well, a meteorite is, in short,

0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:32.199
<v Speaker 3>any solid natural object that falls from space through our

0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:36.359
<v Speaker 3>atmosphere and reaches the surface of the Earth intact. And

0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:40.080
<v Speaker 3>this usually means a chunk of a rocky asteroid. It

0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:42.840
<v Speaker 3>seems that's what it is in most cases, but some

0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.800
<v Speaker 3>cases could possibly mean pieces of comets or even pieces

0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:49.760
<v Speaker 3>of other planets. Sometimes there'll be an impact and a

0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:52.960
<v Speaker 3>piece of Mars or something else breaks off and will

0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:57.879
<v Speaker 3>end up falling to Earth somehow. Now, most meteorites found

0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:02.480
<v Speaker 3>on Earth are not primarily of iron. There are three

0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:07.240
<v Speaker 3>main types of meteorites. You've got stony meteorites, which are

0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:11.840
<v Speaker 3>made mostly of silicon based rock. There are iron meteorites,

0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:14.879
<v Speaker 3>which are primarily made of solid metal, mostly iron, with

0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:17.840
<v Speaker 3>some nickel and other trace metals. And then there's a

0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:21.320
<v Speaker 3>hybrid category which are often considered quite beautiful. Maybe the

0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:25.840
<v Speaker 3>most visually striking of all of them, the stony iron meteorites,

0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:29.040
<v Speaker 3>which are a pretty close to even mix of iron

0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:32.840
<v Speaker 3>metal and silicate rock. Now, iron meteorites are not the

0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:36.320
<v Speaker 3>most common types of meteorites to fall to Earth. I've

0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:40.000
<v Speaker 3>read estimates that they're only about like five or six

0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.399
<v Speaker 3>percent of meteorite falls. But they are sometimes easier to

0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:46.280
<v Speaker 3>find than stony meteorites, and this might be in part

0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:49.160
<v Speaker 3>due to their durability and the environment and the really

0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:52.440
<v Speaker 3>stick around, but also probably in part because they look

0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:57.119
<v Speaker 3>weirder and more alien. And stony meteorites can look a

0:18:57.160 --> 0:18:59.159
<v Speaker 3>lot of different ways, but rob I just attached a

0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:00.920
<v Speaker 3>few examples for you to look at. A lot of

0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:04.800
<v Speaker 3>stony meteorites you could easily mistake for an earth based rock,

0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:08.520
<v Speaker 3>but iron meteorites more often, I guess you could still

0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:11.000
<v Speaker 3>mistake them for an earth based rock, but more of

0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:12.919
<v Speaker 3>them look like really strange.

0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:17.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they have a very novel appearance that even the

0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:20.600
<v Speaker 1>novice would would likely look at and think, well, that's interesting.

0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:23.280
<v Speaker 1>I should pick that up and maybe take this back

0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:26.080
<v Speaker 1>and show it to someone who knows what's up with rocks,

0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:31.359
<v Speaker 1>because yeah, they have this fascinating kind of you know,

0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:35.480
<v Speaker 1>like cool liquid kind of appearance with all these dimples

0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:37.159
<v Speaker 1>and creases and so forth.

0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.639
<v Speaker 3>Why is this a metal brain the size of a

0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:42.199
<v Speaker 3>bear in the middle of the desert?

0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:43.080
<v Speaker 4>What is that?

0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:48.720
<v Speaker 3>Iron meteorites are thought to probably be the remaining cores

0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:52.480
<v Speaker 3>of asteroids that at some point asteroids or parts of

0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:57.359
<v Speaker 3>former planetesimals that at some point melted and then re solidified.

0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:00.280
<v Speaker 3>They're mostly made of iron, Like I said, they have

0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:03.440
<v Speaker 3>some nickel content, as well as other traces of minerals

0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:08.119
<v Speaker 3>and metals, some cobalt content, some phosphorus, some sulfur, and

0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:11.760
<v Speaker 3>so forth. They are often found on Earth covered in

0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:16.280
<v Speaker 3>a black or rusty crust of iron oxide that forms

0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:19.400
<v Speaker 3>as they travel through the atmosphere. And there are two

0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:23.920
<v Speaker 3>primary minerals found in iron meteorites. You've got camosite, which

0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:28.520
<v Speaker 3>has relatively less nickel, and taanite, which has relatively more

0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:33.080
<v Speaker 3>Within iron meteorites. These two minerals camosite and taanite are

0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:38.480
<v Speaker 3>quite often found in an interesting interlocking crystal structure, which

0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:42.040
<v Speaker 3>when you cut a cross section of one of these

0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:45.360
<v Speaker 3>meteorites and you treat it with a weak or diluted acid,

0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:49.919
<v Speaker 3>it reveals this repeating arrangement of lines known as a

0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:54.720
<v Speaker 3>Vidmnstottin pattern. And to try to describe this, it looks

0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:58.720
<v Speaker 3>kind of like a texture of infinite triangles within triangles,

0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:01.879
<v Speaker 3>or you might say, like a actal representation of a

0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:04.440
<v Speaker 3>capital letter A in the English alphabet.

0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:08.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it looks very very sci fi, very futuristic, kind

0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:12.000
<v Speaker 1>of like some sort of you know, a chrome etching

0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:15.760
<v Speaker 1>of the interior scaffolding of the death Star or something.

0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:18.800
<v Speaker 3>To come back to our stuff on, anomalous imagery is

0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:20.560
<v Speaker 3>one of those things that there are all kinds of

0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:24.000
<v Speaker 3>patterns like this in nature that make people say that's technology,

0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:27.120
<v Speaker 3>but no, that's just what these crystals do. And in fact,

0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:31.840
<v Speaker 3>the way this specifically looks seems to be a result

0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:37.080
<v Speaker 3>of creating a two dimensional cross sectional representation of an

0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:42.080
<v Speaker 3>underlying three dimensional structure that's known as an octahedral. So

0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:47.359
<v Speaker 3>an octahedron is a polyhedron, a three dimensional structure with

0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:51.800
<v Speaker 3>eight faces. So you can picture like two four sided

0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:55.280
<v Speaker 3>pyramids joined at the square base. Or if you're a

0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:57.680
<v Speaker 3>D and D player, you just picture a D eight die.

0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:00.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, that's sematar damage.

0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:03.840
<v Speaker 3>So the octahedral structure is created by the interaction of

0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:08.159
<v Speaker 3>these two different minerals chemousite and taanite. They formed these

0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:11.159
<v Speaker 3>different bands and boundaries, and then when they come together

0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:12.680
<v Speaker 3>like that and you cut through the middle of a

0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:14.720
<v Speaker 3>meteorite and you look at the pattern it makes. It's

0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:26.720
<v Speaker 3>this Vidmuin Stottin pattern. Now, we might come back and

0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:30.320
<v Speaker 3>talk more about iron meteorites themselves in the next episode.

0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:33.640
<v Speaker 3>But an interesting question is, so it was proposed long

0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:36.040
<v Speaker 3>ago that King Tut's dagger, as well as many of

0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:39.280
<v Speaker 3>these other iron artifacts, were made out of meteorite iron.

0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:43.199
<v Speaker 3>But is the dagger really meteorite iron? And if so,

0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:47.240
<v Speaker 3>how could we know? Well, there have been multiple investigations

0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:49.359
<v Speaker 3>of this over the years, and they've come up with

0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:52.239
<v Speaker 3>For a while, they came up with conflicting results. There

0:22:52.320 --> 0:22:57.160
<v Speaker 3>was some controversy over this, were different results, different investigators

0:22:57.160 --> 0:22:59.840
<v Speaker 3>came to different conclusions. But it seems to be that

0:22:59.880 --> 0:23:04.440
<v Speaker 3>the more recent research points very strongly to a meteoric origin.

0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:07.560
<v Speaker 3>So I'll mention a couple of studies. One is by

0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:12.160
<v Speaker 3>Daniellocomelli at All that was published in the journal Metiorritics

0:23:12.200 --> 0:23:15.600
<v Speaker 3>and Planetary Science in the year twenty sixteen, and it's

0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:21.080
<v Speaker 3>called the metiorritic origin of Toutencommon's Iron Dagger Blade. Now,

0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:24.240
<v Speaker 3>one thing that is an obstacle when you're investigating this

0:23:24.280 --> 0:23:27.960
<v Speaker 3>sort of thing is method because modern science has lots

0:23:28.000 --> 0:23:32.280
<v Speaker 3>of very powerful tools of chemical analysis, but many of

0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:35.800
<v Speaker 3>them are destructive techniques, so you would have to destroy

0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:39.080
<v Speaker 3>some small part of the artifact in order to analyze it.

0:23:39.160 --> 0:23:43.880
<v Speaker 3>And for obvious historical preservation reasons, researchers wanted to avoid

0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:47.960
<v Speaker 3>having to destroy part of a priceless historical dagger in

0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:51.080
<v Speaker 3>order to figure out what it's made of. So this investigation,

0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:53.760
<v Speaker 3>which by the way, the team was made up of

0:23:53.800 --> 0:23:59.280
<v Speaker 3>both Italian and Egyptian researchers, they use non destructive methods

0:24:00.000 --> 0:24:03.639
<v Speaker 3>analyze the blade with a non destructive imaging technique called

0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:09.640
<v Speaker 3>X ray fluorescence spectrometry to determine the composition of the blade.

0:24:10.040 --> 0:24:12.439
<v Speaker 3>So the way that works is you bombard the blade

0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:16.480
<v Speaker 3>with some radiation they use like a portable X ray scanner.

0:24:16.520 --> 0:24:19.440
<v Speaker 3>You bombard it with some radiation and then that radiation

0:24:19.680 --> 0:24:24.359
<v Speaker 3>causes the atoms in the blade to fluoresce, to like

0:24:24.480 --> 0:24:27.240
<v Speaker 3>give off light energy as they're you know, as the

0:24:27.320 --> 0:24:30.399
<v Speaker 3>radiation hits the electrons that are orbiting the atoms and

0:24:30.440 --> 0:24:32.399
<v Speaker 3>then causes some of them to fall down to lower

0:24:32.480 --> 0:24:35.639
<v Speaker 3>energy levels, and that puts off radiation in return. And

0:24:35.720 --> 0:24:39.040
<v Speaker 3>by analyzing what gets reflected back, you can see what

0:24:39.119 --> 0:24:42.240
<v Speaker 3>types of elements that it's made of. And what they

0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:45.960
<v Speaker 3>found was that the composition of the blade was iron

0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:50.000
<v Speaker 3>with a high percentage of nickel and cobalt. So I

0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:54.120
<v Speaker 3>think they found that it was mostly iron, with ten

0:24:54.160 --> 0:24:57.440
<v Speaker 3>point eight percent by weight nickel and zero point five

0:24:57.440 --> 0:25:01.239
<v Speaker 3>to eight percent by weight cobalt, and these numbers are

0:25:01.640 --> 0:25:05.560
<v Speaker 3>not to be found in earth based iron generally. Studies

0:25:05.560 --> 0:25:08.600
<v Speaker 3>have found that earth based iron extracted from before like

0:25:08.600 --> 0:25:11.880
<v Speaker 3>the eighteen hundreds tends to always have less than four

0:25:11.920 --> 0:25:13.120
<v Speaker 3>percent nickel by waight.

0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:16.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I was reading some sources about this as well,

0:25:16.240 --> 0:25:18.320
<v Speaker 1>and yeah, a lot of it seems to come back

0:25:18.520 --> 0:25:19.159
<v Speaker 1>to the nickel.

0:25:19.400 --> 0:25:21.840
<v Speaker 3>Though I've read some criticisms that you shouldn't go by

0:25:21.920 --> 0:25:24.639
<v Speaker 3>the nickel alone, and that to really be sure you

0:25:24.640 --> 0:25:27.520
<v Speaker 3>should look at like some other comparison points as well,

0:25:27.520 --> 0:25:30.359
<v Speaker 3>like the ratio of nickel to cobalt. I think some

0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:31.440
<v Speaker 3>other things as well.

0:25:31.800 --> 0:25:34.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there was one paper I was looking at Albert

0:25:34.600 --> 0:25:39.720
<v Speaker 1>Jambond from twenty seventeen Bronze Age iron meteoritic or not,

0:25:41.200 --> 0:25:45.840
<v Speaker 1>And this is the additional subheading subtitle a chemical strategy.

0:25:46.359 --> 0:25:48.760
<v Speaker 1>And in this one they pointed out like weathering is

0:25:48.800 --> 0:25:51.159
<v Speaker 1>also sometimes something that has to be taken into place

0:25:51.760 --> 0:25:57.639
<v Speaker 1>given the nickel levels that can be detected, and it

0:25:57.680 --> 0:26:00.200
<v Speaker 1>may have to do with like basically a weathering away

0:26:00.440 --> 0:26:02.280
<v Speaker 1>of some of the nickel content at least on the

0:26:02.320 --> 0:26:04.320
<v Speaker 1>testable portions of an artifact.

0:26:05.720 --> 0:26:08.240
<v Speaker 3>But from what I could tell, most researchers are pretty

0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:12.280
<v Speaker 3>well convinced by this and other recent studies. There's another

0:26:12.320 --> 0:26:15.040
<v Speaker 3>one I'm gonna mention in a second saying that this

0:26:15.160 --> 0:26:19.080
<v Speaker 3>probably really is meteorite. So speaking to the BBC, the

0:26:19.160 --> 0:26:22.440
<v Speaker 3>lead author, Daniellacomelli, who by the way, is that she's

0:26:22.440 --> 0:26:26.880
<v Speaker 3>an experimental physicist affiliated with the Polytechnic University of Milan,

0:26:27.720 --> 0:26:31.199
<v Speaker 3>she sounds pretty confident. She says meteoric iron is clearly

0:26:31.240 --> 0:26:33.840
<v Speaker 3>indicated by the presence of this high percentage of nickel,

0:26:34.960 --> 0:26:37.800
<v Speaker 3>and in fact, the authors of this study from twenty

0:26:37.800 --> 0:26:43.280
<v Speaker 3>sixteen even matched the composition of the blade of Tutencommon's

0:26:43.359 --> 0:26:46.240
<v Speaker 3>dagger to that of a known meteorite in the region,

0:26:46.840 --> 0:26:49.679
<v Speaker 3>one which landed about two hundred and forty kilometers west

0:26:49.760 --> 0:26:53.359
<v Speaker 3>of the city of Alexandria. They also argue that the

0:26:53.400 --> 0:26:57.040
<v Speaker 3>blade shows what they call a high manufacturing quality, which

0:26:57.080 --> 0:26:59.960
<v Speaker 3>is not found in some of the other simple article

0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:03.880
<v Speaker 3>facts made out of meteorite iron from this period in Egypt.

0:27:03.960 --> 0:27:07.560
<v Speaker 3>So it shows that someone at this time had the

0:27:07.600 --> 0:27:10.679
<v Speaker 3>ability to work with iron at a high level. But

0:27:10.880 --> 0:27:13.320
<v Speaker 3>this type type of craftsmanship must have been rare.

0:27:14.200 --> 0:27:20.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, rare craftsmanship befitting of a rare material. There's

0:27:20.800 --> 0:27:23.280
<v Speaker 1>there's one little bit I want to side here. This

0:27:23.320 --> 0:27:26.400
<v Speaker 1>is from the Brian and Fagan book The Seventy Great

0:27:26.400 --> 0:27:30.320
<v Speaker 1>Inventions of the Ancient World. Paul Ti Krattic is the

0:27:30.320 --> 0:27:34.040
<v Speaker 1>main writer on a chapter in that that deals with

0:27:34.040 --> 0:27:38.560
<v Speaker 1>with iron and other metals, and Kradick mentions the dagger

0:27:38.600 --> 0:27:41.439
<v Speaker 1>of tutan Common and there's an excellent photo of it

0:27:41.480 --> 0:27:44.880
<v Speaker 1>in that book. But then he adds an additional detail

0:27:45.119 --> 0:27:48.800
<v Speaker 1>from the following century. So this is a different culture

0:27:49.840 --> 0:27:53.200
<v Speaker 1>because as we've already mentioned, there there are other examples

0:27:53.320 --> 0:27:59.199
<v Speaker 1>of meteoric iron being used in you know, in very regal,

0:27:59.560 --> 0:28:05.520
<v Speaker 1>very ornamental pieces like this and this one, this particular

0:28:05.560 --> 0:28:08.560
<v Speaker 1>one is referred to in a letter. This is from

0:28:08.600 --> 0:28:11.280
<v Speaker 1>twelve fifty BCE. We have a letter from the Hittite

0:28:11.359 --> 0:28:16.719
<v Speaker 1>ruler Tatusilius the third to the king of Assyria, and

0:28:16.840 --> 0:28:19.720
<v Speaker 1>in this letter he apologizes for not being able to

0:28:19.760 --> 0:28:23.840
<v Speaker 1>supply iron and instead hopes that the gift of a

0:28:23.920 --> 0:28:29.840
<v Speaker 1>single accompanying iron blade will be acceptable Socratic rights quote.

0:28:29.880 --> 0:28:33.720
<v Speaker 1>So in twelve fifty BC, a single iron blade from

0:28:33.720 --> 0:28:38.040
<v Speaker 1>the one available source of iron was an appropriate placiatory

0:28:38.160 --> 0:28:42.120
<v Speaker 1>gift to another monarch. So, I mean you can also

0:28:42.160 --> 0:28:44.400
<v Speaker 1>see that in the fact that, yeah, King tut is

0:28:44.440 --> 0:28:48.480
<v Speaker 1>buried with one of these blades, you know, within his wrappings.

0:28:48.800 --> 0:28:50.440
<v Speaker 1>But you know, here's this other case where it's like

0:28:50.480 --> 0:28:53.000
<v Speaker 1>it just it just more evidence that like these things

0:28:53.040 --> 0:28:54.360
<v Speaker 1>were so highly valued.

0:28:54.640 --> 0:28:55.160
<v Speaker 4>These are the.

0:28:55.120 --> 0:28:58.440
<v Speaker 1>Kind of things that kings gave to each other, you know,

0:28:58.560 --> 0:29:01.240
<v Speaker 1>these are the kind of things that kings were buried with.

0:29:02.200 --> 0:29:05.880
<v Speaker 1>But Kradack also points out that mere centuries later iron

0:29:05.920 --> 0:29:10.080
<v Speaker 1>making industry would end up stretching across Eurasia. So again,

0:29:10.120 --> 0:29:12.520
<v Speaker 1>iron ore is very common, but it is the last

0:29:12.600 --> 0:29:16.920
<v Speaker 1>metal of antiquity to be smelted, due in part to

0:29:16.960 --> 0:29:17.920
<v Speaker 1>the high melting point.

0:29:18.360 --> 0:29:21.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm almost trying to imagine. I mean, I get

0:29:21.560 --> 0:29:24.000
<v Speaker 3>the change took place. I suppose over a long enough

0:29:24.040 --> 0:29:25.960
<v Speaker 3>period of time that you wouldn't have really had stuff

0:29:26.000 --> 0:29:30.080
<v Speaker 3>like this, I guess, But I'm imagining somebody clutching extremely valuable,

0:29:30.480 --> 0:29:34.680
<v Speaker 3>you know, precious iron artifacts of a ceremonial value, and

0:29:34.760 --> 0:29:38.520
<v Speaker 3>then suddenly, like the you know, the iron working and

0:29:38.560 --> 0:29:41.600
<v Speaker 3>the iron smelting comes into vogue, and now iron is

0:29:41.640 --> 0:29:44.240
<v Speaker 3>all over the place, and it's just it's not the

0:29:44.280 --> 0:29:45.000
<v Speaker 3>same anymore.

0:29:45.280 --> 0:29:49.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but they would still have the appeal of having

0:29:49.920 --> 0:29:53.720
<v Speaker 1>this source that is associated with the sky as having

0:29:53.720 --> 0:29:57.360
<v Speaker 1>come from heaven or from the cosmos and the gods

0:29:57.360 --> 0:30:00.200
<v Speaker 1>and so forth. And that is something that I've I've

0:30:00.200 --> 0:30:02.479
<v Speaker 1>seen reference in some other sources that I'll probably come

0:30:02.520 --> 0:30:06.920
<v Speaker 1>back to later on that, certainly in the Chinese examples,

0:30:07.960 --> 0:30:11.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, the Chinese, the ancient Chinese were aware of meteorites,

0:30:12.000 --> 0:30:14.520
<v Speaker 1>that they knew about these various events, and they wrote

0:30:14.520 --> 0:30:18.120
<v Speaker 1>about them in their early literature, and therefore there was

0:30:18.320 --> 0:30:21.840
<v Speaker 1>likely this connection in place. So it was this precious

0:30:21.840 --> 0:30:27.120
<v Speaker 1>metal that was unlike the metal used for other tools

0:30:27.160 --> 0:30:32.480
<v Speaker 1>and so forth, unlike even other precious metals and other

0:30:32.880 --> 0:30:35.480
<v Speaker 1>stones and so forth that were used. But then there

0:30:35.520 --> 0:30:38.240
<v Speaker 1>was also the story behind it, the idea that it

0:30:38.280 --> 0:30:40.480
<v Speaker 1>has some sort of connection to the cosmos.

0:30:40.880 --> 0:30:43.000
<v Speaker 3>I want to get to something about that story within

0:30:43.040 --> 0:30:45.360
<v Speaker 3>an Egyptian context in just a minute. But first I

0:30:45.840 --> 0:30:48.360
<v Speaker 3>promised I was going to mention another study on the

0:30:49.600 --> 0:30:52.160
<v Speaker 3>meteor origin of the iron in the blade. So the

0:30:52.200 --> 0:30:54.360
<v Speaker 3>other study I wanted to point out was from twenty

0:30:54.440 --> 0:30:57.720
<v Speaker 3>twenty two. This is in the journal I think the

0:30:57.760 --> 0:31:02.560
<v Speaker 3>same journal, Yeah, same journal Media and Planetary Science, And

0:31:02.600 --> 0:31:06.240
<v Speaker 3>this is by Takafumi Matsui at All, and it's called

0:31:06.280 --> 0:31:10.200
<v Speaker 3>the Manufacture and Origin of the Tuton Common Metiorritic Iron Dagger.

0:31:11.240 --> 0:31:14.640
<v Speaker 3>And this paper further supports the conclusion that the iron

0:31:14.840 --> 0:31:17.840
<v Speaker 3>in the King's Dagger is from a meteorite, and not

0:31:17.880 --> 0:31:22.360
<v Speaker 3>only that adds evidence about what kind of meteorite and

0:31:22.400 --> 0:31:26.000
<v Speaker 3>so the author's right quote. Here we report non destructive

0:31:26.040 --> 0:31:29.600
<v Speaker 3>two dimensional chemical analysis of the Tuton Common iron dagger

0:31:29.960 --> 0:31:33.760
<v Speaker 3>conducted at the Egyptian Museum of Cairo. Elemental mapping of

0:31:33.920 --> 0:31:39.200
<v Speaker 3>nickel on the dagger blade surface shows discontinuous banded arrangements

0:31:39.240 --> 0:31:43.520
<v Speaker 3>in places with cubic symmetry and a bandwidth of about

0:31:43.600 --> 0:31:49.400
<v Speaker 3>one millimeters, suggesting a Vidmin stotton pattern. Remember that, Yeah, ah, yeah,

0:31:49.440 --> 0:31:53.520
<v Speaker 3>So the intermediate nickel content with the presence of the

0:31:53.600 --> 0:31:57.960
<v Speaker 3>Vidmin stotton pattern implies the source meteorite of the dagger

0:31:58.000 --> 0:32:02.240
<v Speaker 3>blade to be octahedrite. So again that's the octahedron the

0:32:02.360 --> 0:32:06.400
<v Speaker 3>d eight die. Furthermore, they say that the quote randomly

0:32:06.440 --> 0:32:11.360
<v Speaker 3>distributed sulfur rich black spots are likely remnants of troylite

0:32:11.520 --> 0:32:16.360
<v Speaker 3>inclusions in iron meteorite. So remember those black spots I

0:32:16.440 --> 0:32:19.360
<v Speaker 3>mentioned on the dagger that I said looked like lunar maria,

0:32:19.440 --> 0:32:22.320
<v Speaker 3>You know, those strange kind of geographical looking depressions and

0:32:22.440 --> 0:32:27.280
<v Speaker 3>dark spots. These authors conclude that those are probably sulfur

0:32:27.560 --> 0:32:34.360
<v Speaker 3>rich troylite inclusions, little impurities in the original metal made

0:32:34.560 --> 0:32:38.000
<v Speaker 3>of mineral iron sulfide and so iron sulfide.

0:32:38.000 --> 0:32:39.440
<v Speaker 4>By the way, you.

0:32:39.320 --> 0:32:42.240
<v Speaker 3>Ever boil a hard boiled egg too long and it

0:32:42.360 --> 0:32:44.920
<v Speaker 3>ends up with a green cake forming around the yolk.

0:32:45.400 --> 0:32:49.800
<v Speaker 3>That's iron sulfide. I think hydrogen sulfide in the egg

0:32:49.880 --> 0:32:54.240
<v Speaker 3>white reacts with iron and the egg yolk and makes

0:32:54.320 --> 0:32:57.520
<v Speaker 3>iron sulfide. So yeah, that's what that gross green stuff is.

0:32:58.080 --> 0:32:59.719
<v Speaker 4>It's not gonna hurt you. You can still eat it.

0:33:00.280 --> 0:33:02.560
<v Speaker 1>You are not a fan of green eggs.

0:33:02.920 --> 0:33:05.560
<v Speaker 3>Well, no, I'm fine with a full green eggs. I

0:33:05.600 --> 0:33:09.240
<v Speaker 3>don't love the green case around the yolk. I feel

0:33:09.240 --> 0:33:10.880
<v Speaker 3>like you boiled that too long.

0:33:10.960 --> 0:33:12.600
<v Speaker 4>That's a no, no, okay.

0:33:13.920 --> 0:33:15.720
<v Speaker 1>I won't do any of the follow up questions about

0:33:15.720 --> 0:33:17.800
<v Speaker 1>whether you would need it with a goat and so forth.

0:33:18.440 --> 0:33:19.720
<v Speaker 4>I need anything with a goat.

0:33:19.800 --> 0:33:19.960
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:33:20.080 --> 0:33:23.240
<v Speaker 3>Goat's just good company that makes even unpalatable food.

0:33:23.280 --> 0:33:26.280
<v Speaker 4>Fine, Yes, they are quite amusing anyway.

0:33:26.360 --> 0:33:28.920
<v Speaker 3>The authors of the paper argue that the Vidmans dot

0:33:28.920 --> 0:33:32.640
<v Speaker 3>and pattern and the Troy light inclusions, the fact that

0:33:32.680 --> 0:33:36.680
<v Speaker 3>those were preserved, these things together indicate that the iron

0:33:36.800 --> 0:33:40.600
<v Speaker 3>was probably forged and worked at low temperatures of less

0:33:40.640 --> 0:33:44.640
<v Speaker 3>than nine hundred and fifty degrees celsius. They also even

0:33:44.760 --> 0:33:48.560
<v Speaker 3>use material analysis to not just say, like what physically

0:33:48.600 --> 0:33:52.520
<v Speaker 3>the stagger is, but to connect it to some historical documents.

0:33:53.880 --> 0:33:56.080
<v Speaker 3>I don't think they were the first people to make

0:33:56.120 --> 0:34:00.360
<v Speaker 3>this connection, but they used some material analysis to kind

0:34:00.360 --> 0:34:03.880
<v Speaker 3>of back it up. So the authors here argued that

0:34:04.040 --> 0:34:08.080
<v Speaker 3>this dagger was quite possibly a gift given to Tutenkommon's

0:34:08.320 --> 0:34:13.440
<v Speaker 3>likely grandfather, Amenhotep the third, from the kingdom of Mitani

0:34:13.640 --> 0:34:18.319
<v Speaker 3>in Anatolia, because there is a tablet mentioning such a

0:34:18.320 --> 0:34:21.759
<v Speaker 3>gift among Egyptian records. There's a tablet that says, you know,

0:34:21.800 --> 0:34:24.839
<v Speaker 3>they're they're sending a gift to Amenhotep the third and

0:34:24.880 --> 0:34:28.600
<v Speaker 3>it's described as an iron dagger with a golden hilt.

0:34:29.120 --> 0:34:32.279
<v Speaker 3>And then the bit of material evidence that backs this

0:34:32.480 --> 0:34:36.640
<v Speaker 3>up is that there is lime plaster used to glue

0:34:36.760 --> 0:34:40.200
<v Speaker 3>jim stones to the gold hilt, and that lime plaster

0:34:40.400 --> 0:34:45.279
<v Speaker 3>glue is characteristic of Mitani craftsmanship rather than Egyptian, which

0:34:45.400 --> 0:34:49.960
<v Speaker 3>tended to use gypsum plaster instead. So this dagger, wrapped

0:34:50.040 --> 0:34:52.480
<v Speaker 3>up with the body of King Tut inside his wrappings

0:34:52.520 --> 0:34:55.759
<v Speaker 3>laying on his thigh, seems to have been made out

0:34:55.760 --> 0:34:59.640
<v Speaker 3>of metal that came from a meteorite, and it's a

0:34:59.680 --> 0:35:02.880
<v Speaker 3>good guessed that this was a gift to King Tut's

0:35:02.880 --> 0:35:04.640
<v Speaker 3>grandfather from Anatolia.

0:35:05.080 --> 0:35:08.319
<v Speaker 1>Wow, now some of you are probably wondering, well, which

0:35:08.360 --> 0:35:09.880
<v Speaker 1>god was in charge of all of this, So a

0:35:10.560 --> 0:35:15.880
<v Speaker 1>brief sidebar here on this in general. For this I

0:35:15.920 --> 0:35:18.920
<v Speaker 1>turned once more to Geraldine Pinch's book and Egyptian Mythology,

0:35:19.480 --> 0:35:23.319
<v Speaker 1>and essentially we should probably point out, yeah, that the

0:35:23.320 --> 0:35:26.800
<v Speaker 1>Egyptian god associated with metal working is the god Taw.

0:35:27.480 --> 0:35:31.279
<v Speaker 1>And not only is Ta associated with metalworking, he's also

0:35:31.360 --> 0:35:33.960
<v Speaker 1>held up as a kind of creator deity. And some

0:35:34.000 --> 0:35:37.960
<v Speaker 1>of these traditions said to have designed and crafted the world,

0:35:38.400 --> 0:35:42.560
<v Speaker 1>to have smelt the new lands, and I found this interesting.

0:35:42.640 --> 0:35:46.360
<v Speaker 1>Made bodies for the kings of Egypt out of electrum, copper,

0:35:46.480 --> 0:35:52.160
<v Speaker 1>and iron bodies according to Pinch, that were presumably made

0:35:52.239 --> 0:35:55.160
<v Speaker 1>so that they could occupy those bodies in the lands

0:35:55.200 --> 0:35:59.080
<v Speaker 1>beyond death, So this would be like your resurrected metal

0:35:59.120 --> 0:36:03.520
<v Speaker 1>body for the next one world. He Ta here, though

0:36:03.560 --> 0:36:07.399
<v Speaker 1>is often described as being beautiful of face. His skin

0:36:07.480 --> 0:36:09.480
<v Speaker 1>is often described as being blue, though I've also seen

0:36:09.520 --> 0:36:13.080
<v Speaker 1>it green in some depictions. He wears an artisan's cap,

0:36:13.640 --> 0:36:17.080
<v Speaker 1>and he is associated with dwarves, perhaps to the to

0:36:17.160 --> 0:36:21.120
<v Speaker 1>the fact that dwarves were often employed in gym working,

0:36:21.480 --> 0:36:24.000
<v Speaker 1>and this on its own is a pretty fascinating topic.

0:36:24.040 --> 0:36:26.840
<v Speaker 1>The role of dwarves in ancient Egypt. There are a

0:36:26.840 --> 0:36:30.759
<v Speaker 1>few different papers on this. Some of these individuals worked

0:36:30.760 --> 0:36:35.280
<v Speaker 1>in entertainment or as personal attendants. Others were animal tenders

0:36:35.560 --> 0:36:39.600
<v Speaker 1>and indeed jewelers. But also there were individuals of the

0:36:39.600 --> 0:36:42.080
<v Speaker 1>Old Kingdom who rose to high rank and status and

0:36:42.120 --> 0:36:43.960
<v Speaker 1>were buried as such. And we're able, you know, to

0:36:44.000 --> 0:36:45.799
<v Speaker 1>tell they had that status because of the way they

0:36:45.840 --> 0:36:49.600
<v Speaker 1>were buried. So it's it's often argued that cultural acceptance

0:36:49.640 --> 0:36:52.720
<v Speaker 1>was pretty high for them. And and Ta was ultimately

0:36:52.800 --> 0:36:55.840
<v Speaker 1>just one of multiple gods held to have a dwarf

0:36:55.920 --> 0:36:59.160
<v Speaker 1>in form of one sort or another. And Ta also

0:36:59.239 --> 0:37:04.359
<v Speaker 1>would later be equated with Hephaestus by the Greeks, though

0:37:04.400 --> 0:37:07.080
<v Speaker 1>of course Hephaestus was not beautiful of face, I think

0:37:07.120 --> 0:37:16.640
<v Speaker 1>in most traditions.

0:37:17.560 --> 0:37:21.319
<v Speaker 3>So meteorites have of course been found by people since prehistory,

0:37:21.520 --> 0:37:25.600
<v Speaker 3>but how often did we actually understand what they were

0:37:25.640 --> 0:37:28.800
<v Speaker 3>and where they came from. Just one example of people

0:37:28.880 --> 0:37:32.840
<v Speaker 3>not generally accepting that meteorites came from outer space is

0:37:33.000 --> 0:37:37.640
<v Speaker 3>European scientists up until the early nineteenth century. There's a

0:37:37.680 --> 0:37:40.799
<v Speaker 3>good summary of this history of like the debate about

0:37:40.840 --> 0:37:45.080
<v Speaker 3>the origin of meteorites in the book Cosmic Horizons, edited

0:37:45.120 --> 0:37:47.880
<v Speaker 3>by Steven Soda and Neil deGrasse Tyson. I think it

0:37:47.920 --> 0:37:50.840
<v Speaker 3>was published in the year two thousand and The short

0:37:50.920 --> 0:37:55.000
<v Speaker 3>version of the story is that there have long been

0:37:55.200 --> 0:37:59.120
<v Speaker 3>reports from people, you know, seeing fireballs in the sky

0:37:59.239 --> 0:38:02.879
<v Speaker 3>or hearing explode, then finding rocks that they believed had

0:38:02.880 --> 0:38:06.440
<v Speaker 3>fallen from above. But as of the late eighteenth century,

0:38:06.560 --> 0:38:10.920
<v Speaker 3>most scientists of the European Enlightenment doubted that stones actually

0:38:10.920 --> 0:38:13.120
<v Speaker 3>fell from the sky, or if they did believe it,

0:38:13.480 --> 0:38:16.239
<v Speaker 3>they thought maybe that the stones, you know, came from

0:38:16.239 --> 0:38:19.160
<v Speaker 3>somewhere on Earth. They couldn't have come from outer space.

0:38:19.640 --> 0:38:23.160
<v Speaker 3>Maybe they were thrown from a distant volcano, or maybe

0:38:23.160 --> 0:38:26.160
<v Speaker 3>they were picked up and tossed by a hurricane far away.

0:38:26.760 --> 0:38:30.520
<v Speaker 3>Because at the time there was a sort of a dogma.

0:38:30.560 --> 0:38:34.520
<v Speaker 3>There was a convention that space, apart from the planets

0:38:34.520 --> 0:38:37.280
<v Speaker 3>and the comets, was empty. You know, you got the Earth,

0:38:37.320 --> 0:38:41.040
<v Speaker 3>you got the Sun, the planets, the stars, the comets,

0:38:41.080 --> 0:38:43.160
<v Speaker 3>but other than that, it's just empty out there. There's

0:38:43.200 --> 0:38:47.799
<v Speaker 3>not like stuff flying around. However, a German physicist by

0:38:47.840 --> 0:38:51.160
<v Speaker 3>the name of Ernst Kladney, who lived seventeen fifty six

0:38:51.200 --> 0:38:54.160
<v Speaker 3>to eighteen twenty seven published a book in the year

0:38:54.160 --> 0:38:58.680
<v Speaker 3>seventeen ninety four arguing that these reports were accurate and

0:38:58.719 --> 0:39:01.959
<v Speaker 3>that rocks and pieces of iron actually do sometimes fall

0:39:02.000 --> 0:39:07.120
<v Speaker 3>from the sky, in some cases creating fireballs and explosions

0:39:07.160 --> 0:39:10.759
<v Speaker 3>as they are heated by friction traveling through the atmosphere.

0:39:11.400 --> 0:39:15.880
<v Speaker 3>Cladney was an interesting guy. He was a lawyer by training,

0:39:16.280 --> 0:39:20.120
<v Speaker 3>but he was also very into music and acoustics, and

0:39:20.200 --> 0:39:24.000
<v Speaker 3>he discovered a way of visualizing sound waves by putting

0:39:24.080 --> 0:39:27.239
<v Speaker 3>dust or powder on a plate and then vibrating the

0:39:27.280 --> 0:39:29.880
<v Speaker 3>plate by rubbing it with a violin bow, and so

0:39:29.960 --> 0:39:33.879
<v Speaker 3>the powder would range itself into these patterns that were

0:39:33.920 --> 0:39:38.800
<v Speaker 3>related to the sound waves produced. Cladney went about collecting

0:39:38.960 --> 0:39:42.800
<v Speaker 3>eyewitness reports of fireballs and meteorite falls from the sky,

0:39:43.480 --> 0:39:46.600
<v Speaker 3>and he tried to evaluate them for credibility and see

0:39:46.640 --> 0:39:49.560
<v Speaker 3>what could be learned from them, and eventually he concluded

0:39:49.600 --> 0:39:52.960
<v Speaker 3>that yes, rocks really do fall from space. One thing

0:39:53.000 --> 0:39:57.440
<v Speaker 3>he did was use descriptions of fireballs to estimate the

0:39:57.560 --> 0:40:01.160
<v Speaker 3>speed at which these rocks were entering the Earth's atmosphere,

0:40:01.600 --> 0:40:04.879
<v Speaker 3>and he realized they must be going much faster than

0:40:04.960 --> 0:40:08.239
<v Speaker 3>could be accounted for by the Earth's gravity alone, so

0:40:09.080 --> 0:40:12.240
<v Speaker 3>they're not simply falling, but they must be flying through

0:40:12.280 --> 0:40:16.320
<v Speaker 3>space at extreme velocities. And this connected with the fact

0:40:16.400 --> 0:40:19.480
<v Speaker 3>that when these alleged rocks were found, they looked scorched

0:40:19.480 --> 0:40:22.440
<v Speaker 3>all over. The friction of entering the atmosphere at these

0:40:22.520 --> 0:40:26.160
<v Speaker 3>high speeds melted their outer shells, and so he looked

0:40:26.160 --> 0:40:28.480
<v Speaker 3>into it. He published this book in seventeen ninety four,

0:40:28.560 --> 0:40:31.440
<v Speaker 3>and it was initially met with skepticism by his peers

0:40:31.480 --> 0:40:36.279
<v Speaker 3>by European scientists, but many scientists updated their beliefs due

0:40:36.360 --> 0:40:39.320
<v Speaker 3>to new emerging evidence. They sort of got lucky with

0:40:40.760 --> 0:40:44.960
<v Speaker 3>some things, some documented events that really backed up his argument,

0:40:45.680 --> 0:40:49.840
<v Speaker 3>including a widely reported meteor fall near Siena, Italy, just

0:40:49.880 --> 0:40:52.320
<v Speaker 3>a couple of months after the book was published, another

0:40:52.360 --> 0:40:55.279
<v Speaker 3>one in England which included an eyewitness account of a

0:40:55.400 --> 0:40:58.719
<v Speaker 3>farmer who claimed a black rock hit the earth only

0:40:58.760 --> 0:41:01.640
<v Speaker 3>thirty feet away from him and caused an explosion in

0:41:01.680 --> 0:41:05.799
<v Speaker 3>the mud that splattered all over his body. And then

0:41:05.840 --> 0:41:09.040
<v Speaker 3>there was another one in Normandy in eighteen oh three,

0:41:09.600 --> 0:41:12.719
<v Speaker 3>which was extensively documented by the French physicist to Jean

0:41:12.760 --> 0:41:17.359
<v Speaker 3>Baptiste bo which included reports of a fireball as well

0:41:17.440 --> 0:41:21.320
<v Speaker 3>as an elliptical impact area that had many weird stones

0:41:21.400 --> 0:41:25.880
<v Speaker 3>within it. And so these reports were supplemented by chemical

0:41:25.960 --> 0:41:28.719
<v Speaker 3>and mineral analysis of some of these meteorite samples, and

0:41:28.760 --> 0:41:32.240
<v Speaker 3>it turned out that these samples were unlike any rocks

0:41:32.320 --> 0:41:35.080
<v Speaker 3>or metal ores known of on Earth. For example, the

0:41:35.160 --> 0:41:38.600
<v Speaker 3>rocks contained what they called at the time globules. These

0:41:38.600 --> 0:41:43.960
<v Speaker 3>are now known as chondrules, their little round grains within

0:41:44.040 --> 0:41:48.040
<v Speaker 3>the structure of the rock that began as molten droplets

0:41:48.040 --> 0:41:51.840
<v Speaker 3>of minerals in space, and then a crete together within asteroids.

0:41:52.239 --> 0:41:55.759
<v Speaker 3>Also connecting to what we've already found, they discovered that

0:41:55.800 --> 0:41:59.359
<v Speaker 3>iron meteorrite fragments contained levels of nickel that had never

0:41:59.440 --> 0:42:03.000
<v Speaker 3>been obsor in Earth based iron. And then, finally another

0:42:03.040 --> 0:42:07.000
<v Speaker 3>piece of evidence was the discovery of the first asteroid,

0:42:07.160 --> 0:42:11.239
<v Speaker 3>the Dwarf Planet series in eighteen oh one, which suggested

0:42:11.280 --> 0:42:15.120
<v Speaker 3>that space between the planets and the comets was not empty.

0:42:15.680 --> 0:42:18.279
<v Speaker 3>There were lots of rocky things floating around out there,

0:42:18.320 --> 0:42:21.600
<v Speaker 3>and some of them might occasionally land on Earth, and

0:42:21.640 --> 0:42:24.719
<v Speaker 3>that was in fact what meteorites were. So it was

0:42:24.920 --> 0:42:28.680
<v Speaker 3>more than one hundred years after Newton's principia that the

0:42:28.760 --> 0:42:33.400
<v Speaker 3>true origin of meteorites was widely accepted among European scientists.

0:42:34.000 --> 0:42:37.160
<v Speaker 3>But that brings me to an article that I wanted

0:42:37.200 --> 0:42:39.319
<v Speaker 3>to talk about to address the question of what the

0:42:39.360 --> 0:42:42.440
<v Speaker 3>ancient Egyptians knew. So I was reading an article in

0:42:42.520 --> 0:42:46.919
<v Speaker 3>the anthropology magazine Sapiens written by an Egyptologist who named

0:42:47.040 --> 0:42:51.319
<v Speaker 3>Victoria Almansa Vilatro. This is from twenty twenty three, and

0:42:51.440 --> 0:42:55.719
<v Speaker 3>if Almansa Villatoro's argument is correct, the fact that meteorites

0:42:55.719 --> 0:42:58.400
<v Speaker 3>come from space or from the sky was known to

0:42:58.480 --> 0:43:02.920
<v Speaker 3>the ancient Egyptians. Just one cool example she mentions in

0:43:02.960 --> 0:43:08.040
<v Speaker 3>the article is there's an interesting inscription in hieroglyphics inside

0:43:08.080 --> 0:43:12.560
<v Speaker 3>the pyramid of Unus at Sakara. Unus was the last

0:43:12.719 --> 0:43:16.799
<v Speaker 3>pharaoh of the Fifth Dynasty during Egypt's Old Kingdom, and

0:43:16.880 --> 0:43:20.040
<v Speaker 3>he ruled in the middle of the twenty fourth century BCE,

0:43:20.400 --> 0:43:23.320
<v Speaker 3>so like forty four hundred years ago, and the sentence

0:43:23.320 --> 0:43:27.640
<v Speaker 3>from the pyramid text reads, Eunus the king seizes the

0:43:27.680 --> 0:43:32.880
<v Speaker 3>sky and splits its iron. Now, this article in Sapiens

0:43:32.960 --> 0:43:37.360
<v Speaker 3>is based somewhat on Almansa Villatorro's academic publication in the

0:43:37.400 --> 0:43:41.200
<v Speaker 3>Journal of Egyptian Archaeology from twenty nineteen called the cultural

0:43:41.239 --> 0:43:46.080
<v Speaker 3>Indexicality of the n forty one sign for beat this. Oh,

0:43:46.160 --> 0:43:49.440
<v Speaker 3>this's got some strange characters. BJ three sort of is

0:43:49.480 --> 0:43:51.920
<v Speaker 3>what it looks like the metal of the sky and

0:43:51.960 --> 0:43:54.960
<v Speaker 3>the sky of metal. Now this includes a lot of

0:43:55.000 --> 0:43:57.440
<v Speaker 3>linguistic arguments that are way over my head, but I

0:43:57.480 --> 0:43:59.400
<v Speaker 3>was just going through to get the main point and

0:43:59.400 --> 0:44:03.480
<v Speaker 3>pull out some details. And one of the things I

0:44:03.480 --> 0:44:05.640
<v Speaker 3>wanted to get to I wanted to mention briefly just

0:44:05.640 --> 0:44:08.040
<v Speaker 3>because I thought it was interesting before getting to remain

0:44:08.120 --> 0:44:12.120
<v Speaker 3>conclusions or about the religious and ceremonial functions of iron.

0:44:12.600 --> 0:44:15.720
<v Speaker 3>All Monts of Villaturo mentions in the paper that pre

0:44:15.880 --> 0:44:20.799
<v Speaker 3>Iron Age iron artifacts are associated in Egypt with an

0:44:20.920 --> 0:44:25.080
<v Speaker 3>elaborate funerary ritual known as the opening of the Mouth,

0:44:25.560 --> 0:44:28.920
<v Speaker 3>which was a sort of ceremony performed over a dead body.

0:44:28.960 --> 0:44:31.200
<v Speaker 3>I think often of a king or a ruler, but

0:44:31.280 --> 0:44:33.680
<v Speaker 3>a ceremony over a body that seems to be sort

0:44:33.680 --> 0:44:37.239
<v Speaker 3>of activated the powers of life beyond death. It's sort

0:44:37.280 --> 0:44:40.120
<v Speaker 3>of like turning on afterlife mode to give you the

0:44:40.200 --> 0:44:43.560
<v Speaker 3>powers of like eating and drinking and speaking in the afterlife.

0:44:44.080 --> 0:44:47.640
<v Speaker 3>And I briefly got very interested in this. So this

0:44:47.800 --> 0:44:49.560
<v Speaker 3>was not in the paper, but I went looking for

0:44:49.680 --> 0:44:52.200
<v Speaker 3>a text of the spoken part of the opening of

0:44:52.200 --> 0:44:53.840
<v Speaker 3>the mouth ceremony. I think there are a lot of

0:44:53.840 --> 0:44:57.080
<v Speaker 3>different versions of this, but the one I found in

0:44:57.120 --> 0:45:00.000
<v Speaker 3>particular was a translation of the ritual from the two

0:45:00.040 --> 0:45:04.080
<v Speaker 3>Zoum Chapel of rech Mirah, which involved like dedicating a

0:45:04.120 --> 0:45:09.319
<v Speaker 3>statue of the dead, and the text includes the following lines, Uh,

0:45:09.800 --> 0:45:13.000
<v Speaker 3>there's a letter, a capital letter in here which just

0:45:13.040 --> 0:45:15.040
<v Speaker 3>refers to the name of the dead. So when you

0:45:15.080 --> 0:45:17.200
<v Speaker 3>hear in, you think of the name of the dead.

0:45:18.120 --> 0:45:21.040
<v Speaker 3>It goes, I have balanced your mouth and bones for you.

0:45:21.400 --> 0:45:24.440
<v Speaker 3>In I have opened your mouth for you. In I

0:45:24.560 --> 0:45:27.319
<v Speaker 3>open your mouth for you with the new uplade. I

0:45:27.360 --> 0:45:29.920
<v Speaker 3>have opened your mouth for you with the new uplade.

0:45:30.280 --> 0:45:33.319
<v Speaker 3>The mesca hetch you blade of iron that opens the

0:45:33.320 --> 0:45:36.600
<v Speaker 3>mouths of gods. Horace is the opener of the mouth

0:45:36.640 --> 0:45:37.040
<v Speaker 3>of N.

0:45:37.520 --> 0:45:37.920
<v Speaker 4>Horace.

0:45:38.120 --> 0:45:41.320
<v Speaker 3>Horace has opened the mouth of N. Horace has opened

0:45:41.320 --> 0:45:43.759
<v Speaker 3>the mouth of N with that which he opened the

0:45:43.760 --> 0:45:46.759
<v Speaker 3>mouth of his father, with which he opened the mouth

0:45:46.800 --> 0:45:50.360
<v Speaker 3>of Osiris, with the iron that came from Seth. The

0:45:50.440 --> 0:45:53.759
<v Speaker 3>mesketch you blade of iron with which the mouths of

0:45:53.840 --> 0:45:57.160
<v Speaker 3>gods are opened. May you open the mouth of N with.

0:45:57.040 --> 0:45:59.960
<v Speaker 1>It nice and we get that connection back to Osiris,

0:46:00.360 --> 0:46:04.600
<v Speaker 1>who we talked about previously on the show. This is

0:46:04.640 --> 0:46:08.120
<v Speaker 1>interesting too because then when I was researching ta who

0:46:08.160 --> 0:46:11.680
<v Speaker 1>I talked about earlier, the Egyptian god associated with the craftsmanship.

0:46:12.640 --> 0:46:15.760
<v Speaker 1>There was also mention in Pinch's work about the opening

0:46:15.760 --> 0:46:19.440
<v Speaker 1>of the mouth ceremony and elsewhere in the book she

0:46:19.840 --> 0:46:23.279
<v Speaker 1>talks about the Horus connection and so forth. But it

0:46:23.400 --> 0:46:25.960
<v Speaker 1>seems like Tad did have some sort of connection to

0:46:26.840 --> 0:46:29.880
<v Speaker 1>this as well, and she mentions that it was used

0:46:30.200 --> 0:46:33.600
<v Speaker 1>for mummies but also for sculptures, and maybe given his

0:46:33.640 --> 0:46:36.279
<v Speaker 1>craftsmanship angle, he's more aligned with that end of it.

0:46:36.320 --> 0:46:41.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm not entirely certain, but yeah, imbuing life into the sculpture,

0:46:41.960 --> 0:46:45.400
<v Speaker 1>embodying it somehow, and like you said, perhaps turning on

0:46:45.480 --> 0:46:51.360
<v Speaker 1>after life mode for the mummified body of an important person.

0:46:51.800 --> 0:46:55.239
<v Speaker 3>But also very interesting that implements specifically of iron are

0:46:55.280 --> 0:46:57.880
<v Speaker 3>associated with this ritual, that it has some kind of

0:46:58.040 --> 0:47:02.480
<v Speaker 3>mythical or ritual potency here. So all months of Laturo

0:47:02.680 --> 0:47:05.920
<v Speaker 3>in this article gets into the fact that before the

0:47:06.239 --> 0:47:09.760
<v Speaker 3>widespread or large scale smelting of iron and iron working

0:47:09.840 --> 0:47:13.440
<v Speaker 3>within Egypt, there are still these these iron artifacts that

0:47:13.600 --> 0:47:19.000
<v Speaker 3>are thought to be made primarily of iron sourced from meteorites,

0:47:19.560 --> 0:47:24.200
<v Speaker 3>and that they almost always again serve this more ceremonial

0:47:24.280 --> 0:47:27.719
<v Speaker 3>or decorative function. They are either objects of kind of

0:47:28.400 --> 0:47:32.359
<v Speaker 3>wealth and power and decoration, they symbolize status maybe or

0:47:32.400 --> 0:47:37.600
<v Speaker 3>that they have this religious significance. But anyway, I wanted

0:47:37.600 --> 0:47:39.520
<v Speaker 3>to come back to the core question of like, what

0:47:39.680 --> 0:47:43.440
<v Speaker 3>is the evidence that the ancient Egyptians actually understood that

0:47:43.640 --> 0:47:47.520
<v Speaker 3>this meteoritic iron or meteorite iron came from the sky.

0:47:48.080 --> 0:47:51.040
<v Speaker 3>And so she writes in the second millennium BCE, the

0:47:51.200 --> 0:47:56.279
<v Speaker 3>Egyptian word or phrase used to refer to iron was

0:47:56.400 --> 0:47:59.680
<v Speaker 3>a phrase that literally can mean the metal of the

0:47:59.680 --> 0:48:05.920
<v Speaker 3>sky or the iron of the sky, and there are

0:48:06.160 --> 0:48:10.200
<v Speaker 3>early known Egyptian associations between iron and the sky. So

0:48:10.360 --> 0:48:13.880
<v Speaker 3>you've got the pyramid pyramid text which are texts inscribed

0:48:13.920 --> 0:48:16.680
<v Speaker 3>on the inner walls of the pyramids where the Egyptian

0:48:16.760 --> 0:48:19.279
<v Speaker 3>kings and queens of the fifth to eighth dynasties of

0:48:19.280 --> 0:48:22.840
<v Speaker 3>the Old Kingdom were buried. This would cover a period

0:48:22.840 --> 0:48:25.399
<v Speaker 3>of like forty one hundred to forty four hundred years

0:48:25.440 --> 0:48:29.800
<v Speaker 3>ago or so. These texts included incantations that would be

0:48:29.840 --> 0:48:34.480
<v Speaker 3>recited by priests to guide the dead rulers into the afterlife,

0:48:35.040 --> 0:48:38.839
<v Speaker 3>and the Pyramid texts describe a really interesting cosmology, really

0:48:38.920 --> 0:48:43.040
<v Speaker 3>interesting picture of how the universe was shaped. And in

0:48:43.080 --> 0:48:47.359
<v Speaker 3>her work, almnts of Llatro argues that the way they

0:48:47.400 --> 0:48:51.360
<v Speaker 3>described the sky should be pictured as a giant iron

0:48:51.600 --> 0:48:55.319
<v Speaker 3>bowl with water in it, and water can fall from

0:48:55.320 --> 0:48:58.719
<v Speaker 3>the bowl. I guess that's rain, but also chunks of

0:48:58.760 --> 0:49:01.840
<v Speaker 3>the iron bowl is self can fall to the earth,

0:49:02.080 --> 0:49:06.280
<v Speaker 3>and these would be iron meteorites. Now the author admits

0:49:06.320 --> 0:49:09.719
<v Speaker 3>that it's not obvious this is what's being described. You

0:49:09.760 --> 0:49:12.879
<v Speaker 3>have to sort of decode a linked system of metaphors

0:49:12.920 --> 0:49:16.760
<v Speaker 3>within the glyphs of the Egyptian language. She writes, quote,

0:49:16.760 --> 0:49:19.800
<v Speaker 3>in the Pyramid texts, the word for iron is written

0:49:19.800 --> 0:49:23.880
<v Speaker 3>with a hieroglyph that represents a hemispherical container of water.

0:49:24.440 --> 0:49:28.040
<v Speaker 3>How the Egyptians perceived the sky. Iron and sky are

0:49:28.120 --> 0:49:31.960
<v Speaker 3>interchangeable in the texts, which is why passages describe the

0:49:32.000 --> 0:49:35.840
<v Speaker 3>dead saling the iron and the king needing to break

0:49:35.880 --> 0:49:39.319
<v Speaker 3>an iron barrier to reach the sky. And then she

0:49:39.440 --> 0:49:42.040
<v Speaker 3>documents how there are also links between the concept of

0:49:42.120 --> 0:49:46.000
<v Speaker 3>iron and the concept of water, because remember, in many

0:49:46.040 --> 0:49:49.719
<v Speaker 3>ancient cosmologies, people sort of believe the sky was in

0:49:49.800 --> 0:49:52.680
<v Speaker 3>some sense full of water, and so maybe when it rains,

0:49:52.680 --> 0:49:56.960
<v Speaker 3>that's water leaking out of the waters above. And so

0:49:57.080 --> 0:50:01.360
<v Speaker 3>Almans of Vulatora writes that the goddess Newt personified the sky.

0:50:01.600 --> 0:50:05.279
<v Speaker 3>But also at this period there are religious texts explaining

0:50:05.320 --> 0:50:08.760
<v Speaker 3>the belief that in the afterlife a dead royal would

0:50:08.800 --> 0:50:13.920
<v Speaker 3>return to the waters of Newts Uterus, and so this

0:50:14.080 --> 0:50:18.120
<v Speaker 3>sign used for iron is also associated with the word

0:50:18.160 --> 0:50:22.120
<v Speaker 3>for uterus and the word for well, like water well.

0:50:23.480 --> 0:50:26.279
<v Speaker 3>And so she admits there might be legitimate reasons for

0:50:26.360 --> 0:50:31.080
<v Speaker 3>doubting this interpretation that these associations mean that the Egyptians

0:50:31.160 --> 0:50:34.520
<v Speaker 3>knew that iron meteorites came from the sky. And one

0:50:34.600 --> 0:50:38.040
<v Speaker 3>is the simple question of, like, how likely is it

0:50:38.120 --> 0:50:41.919
<v Speaker 3>in a given space and time period that someone would

0:50:41.960 --> 0:50:46.200
<v Speaker 3>be able to like have the like witness a meteorite falling,

0:50:46.239 --> 0:50:50.280
<v Speaker 3>which itself is a fairly rare event, witness it falling,

0:50:50.680 --> 0:50:53.360
<v Speaker 3>and then have it be lucky enough that it lands

0:50:53.520 --> 0:50:56.440
<v Speaker 3>very physically close that you can close enough that you

0:50:56.440 --> 0:51:00.080
<v Speaker 3>can go find the physical meteorite and then associate it

0:51:00.160 --> 0:51:04.359
<v Speaker 3>with the falling you saw from above, and put all

0:51:04.400 --> 0:51:08.080
<v Speaker 3>that information together and then also pass it on for

0:51:08.120 --> 0:51:11.640
<v Speaker 3>it to become general cultural knowledge. You know, that would

0:51:11.719 --> 0:51:15.240
<v Speaker 3>take a sort of like a lucky confluence of events

0:51:15.280 --> 0:51:18.920
<v Speaker 3>that themselves might be fairly rare, but you know, it

0:51:19.000 --> 0:51:22.000
<v Speaker 3>happens often enough that there are records of other times

0:51:22.000 --> 0:51:24.520
<v Speaker 3>in places where people did see something falling and then

0:51:24.560 --> 0:51:27.440
<v Speaker 3>they claim to have found a stone or something. So

0:51:27.480 --> 0:51:31.040
<v Speaker 3>it's certainly not impossible. And in the case of ancient Egypt,

0:51:31.200 --> 0:51:34.480
<v Speaker 3>it seems like there's this linguistic and literary evidence that

0:51:34.520 --> 0:51:38.319
<v Speaker 3>would help support that idea that people did have this

0:51:38.440 --> 0:51:42.560
<v Speaker 3>cultural knowledge making a link between iron and the sky

0:51:42.840 --> 0:51:43.880
<v Speaker 3>and the waters above.

0:51:44.600 --> 0:51:47.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, and then again perhaps throwing in the you know,

0:51:47.600 --> 0:51:50.920
<v Speaker 1>the idea of the desert being an ideal place to

0:51:51.440 --> 0:51:55.320
<v Speaker 1>spot them in the dark stone standing out against the

0:51:56.040 --> 0:51:59.239
<v Speaker 1>lighter colored sand, and so forth. May come back to

0:51:59.640 --> 0:52:03.840
<v Speaker 1>meteor hunting a little bit in subsequent episodes to explore

0:52:03.920 --> 0:52:05.839
<v Speaker 1>this this aspect of everything a bit more.

0:52:06.239 --> 0:52:07.600
<v Speaker 4>Yeah yeah.

0:52:07.640 --> 0:52:09.720
<v Speaker 3>One more thing she knows that I think is interesting

0:52:09.840 --> 0:52:12.760
<v Speaker 3>is this is not totally unique to the Egyptian language.

0:52:12.760 --> 0:52:15.600
<v Speaker 3>She also notes that there is a similar sort of

0:52:15.680 --> 0:52:20.520
<v Speaker 3>linguistic link in ancient Sumerian, which also characterizes iron as

0:52:20.560 --> 0:52:22.080
<v Speaker 3>sort of the metal of the sky.

0:52:23.040 --> 0:52:27.279
<v Speaker 1>Excellent, excellent. Well, in the next episode, I think we're

0:52:27.280 --> 0:52:30.279
<v Speaker 1>going to get into some more examples. We're gonna we're

0:52:30.280 --> 0:52:32.680
<v Speaker 1>gonna keep exploring the overall topic, but we'll also get

0:52:32.680 --> 0:52:36.840
<v Speaker 1>into some other specific examples from other cultures. Well, we'll

0:52:36.880 --> 0:52:39.600
<v Speaker 1>sort of ask some of the same questions of Chinese traditions.

0:52:39.840 --> 0:52:44.920
<v Speaker 1>You know, did they know that this iron came from above?

0:52:45.000 --> 0:52:47.879
<v Speaker 1>And what did that mean to them? And so forth. So, yeah,

0:52:47.880 --> 0:52:50.320
<v Speaker 1>there are a lot of additional interesting angles to explore,

0:52:50.400 --> 0:52:55.719
<v Speaker 1>and there are some other other examples and alleged examples

0:52:56.080 --> 0:53:01.320
<v Speaker 1>of meteoric iron being used in artifacts that are related

0:53:01.320 --> 0:53:03.360
<v Speaker 1>to to cultures that I didn't even know how to

0:53:03.400 --> 0:53:06.800
<v Speaker 1>tradition of using such substances. So it'll be it'll be

0:53:06.840 --> 0:53:08.040
<v Speaker 1>fascinating to continue to.

0:53:07.960 --> 0:53:10.240
<v Speaker 4>Explore this, no doubt. I'm excited.

0:53:10.480 --> 0:53:14.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So in the meantime, if you have thoughts on

0:53:14.480 --> 0:53:17.560
<v Speaker 1>this topic, if you if there are specific examples you

0:53:17.600 --> 0:53:19.359
<v Speaker 1>want to get in there early and say yes, make

0:53:19.400 --> 0:53:21.920
<v Speaker 1>sure you cover this, go ahead and hit us with it.

0:53:21.960 --> 0:53:24.960
<v Speaker 1>You know, we're we're in we're still in research mode here,

0:53:25.400 --> 0:53:27.560
<v Speaker 1>we're still writing up the notes. So you know there's

0:53:27.600 --> 0:53:30.160
<v Speaker 1>time to get it in there, and if not, it's

0:53:30.200 --> 0:53:32.960
<v Speaker 1>something we can discuss on our listener mail episodes. Our

0:53:32.960 --> 0:53:36.239
<v Speaker 1>listener mail episodes published Mondays in the Stuff to Blow

0:53:36.239 --> 0:53:39.600
<v Speaker 1>Your Mind podcast feed Our core episodes are on Tuesdays

0:53:39.640 --> 0:53:43.240
<v Speaker 1>and Thursdays. Short form episode on Wednesdays and on Fridays.

0:53:43.239 --> 0:53:45.600
<v Speaker 1>We set aside most serious concerns to just talk about

0:53:45.600 --> 0:53:50.440
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0:53:54.640 --> 0:53:57.080
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0:54:00.360 --> 0:54:03.600
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0:54:03.600 --> 0:54:06.319
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0:54:09.600 --> 0:54:11.760
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<v Speaker 1>with other fans. There's also a discord page or what

0:54:15.920 --> 0:54:20.000
<v Speaker 1>do we decided discord was called a server? Perhaps, well,

0:54:20.160 --> 0:54:23.160
<v Speaker 1>you can like that, Email us and we'll send you

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<v Speaker 1>the link so that you can go there.

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<v Speaker 3>Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

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<v Speaker 3>If you would like to get in touch with us

0:54:31.040 --> 0:54:33.640
<v Speaker 3>with feedback on this episode or any other to suggest

0:54:33.680 --> 0:54:35.640
<v Speaker 3>a topic for the future, or just to say hi.

0:54:35.719 --> 0:54:38.200
<v Speaker 3>You can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

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<v Speaker 3>your Mind dot com.

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<v Speaker 2>Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

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<v Speaker 2>more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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<v Speaker 2>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.