1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: The future may not be clear, but our commitment is 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: so when you sit with an advisor at Merrill Lynch, 3 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: we'll put your interests first. Visit mL dot com and 4 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: learn more about Merrill Lynch, an affiliative Bank of America. 5 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: Mery Lynch makes available pducts and services offered by Merrill Lynch. 6 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: Pierce Veteran Smith Incorporated or Register Broker Dealer remember s 7 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: I PC. This is Masters in Business with Barry Ridholts 8 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:26,639 Speaker 1: on Boomberg Radio. This week on the podcast, I have 9 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: an extra special guest. His name is Professor Brian Green. 10 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 1: He is a director of theoretical physics at Columbia University 11 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: and is also a super string theorist whose contributions to 12 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: the worlds of physics and cosmology are right up there 13 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 1: with with some of the greats. If you are at 14 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 1: all interested in things like how the universe formed, what's 15 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: going to happen to it eventually, what actually makes Earth 16 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: unique and special? How long is a galaxy going to 17 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: be in existence? When is the universe gonna die? Will 18 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: the universe die? This is really a fascinating conversation. I 19 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: love this sort of stuff and it was just an 20 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: absolute pleasure speaking with someone who is such a tremendous 21 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: expert in the field, who can talk with great understanding 22 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: and has the ability to communicate very very complex ideas 23 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: in a way that is readily understandable by just about anybody. 24 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: I found this utterly entrancing. Uh. For those of you 25 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: who are physics wanks or cosmology and space wonks like 26 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,919 Speaker 1: I am, this podcast is for you. I have to 27 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: add that this week is New York City's Festival of Science, 28 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: which Professor Green created and helps co produce each year. 29 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: It's the tenth anniversary of this. So for those of 30 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: you who have kids who are interested in science, or 31 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: kids you wanna make interested in science and so were 32 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: in the New York tri state area, I strongly suggest 33 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: you bring them with no further ado. My conversation with 34 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: Columbia University Professor Brian Green. My special guest today is 35 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: Brian Green. He is professor of physics and mathematics at 36 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: Columbia University, best known for his groundbreaking discoveries in superstring theory. 37 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: The public knows him through his books, most notably The 38 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: Elegant Universe, Fabric of the Cosmos, and Hidden Reality. Collectively, 39 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: they have sold over two million copies. He also hosted 40 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: a Nova mini series which won both Peabody and Emmy awards, 41 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: and that mini series was based on his book. He 42 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:53,399 Speaker 1: is a director of Columbia University's Center for Theoretical Physics. 43 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: Professor Brian Green. Welcome to Bloomberg. Thank you very much. 44 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: So I'm a little bit of a physics nerd, and 45 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: I've been really looking forward to having this conversation. And 46 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: I want to start with a quote of yours, which 47 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: is the universe is rich and exciting, and there's stuff 48 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: that can knock you over every day if you're privy 49 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: to it. Tell us about that. Well, I think that's 50 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: absolutely case. You know, we love going to say the movies, right, 51 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 1: to see some Hollywood film that usually comes out of 52 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: some screenwriter's imagination. But oftentimes I sit and watch those 53 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: things and I do enjoy them. But when I step 54 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:33,119 Speaker 1: out of the theater, I recognize that the true way 55 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: the world is put together, quantum mechanics, relativity, all of 56 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: that stuff is so much more creative and so much 57 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: more mind blowing than anything that usually we make up. 58 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: So I always lament the fact that there's so many 59 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: people that just don't realize that. So let's talk a 60 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: little bit about quantum mechanics and general relativity. For a 61 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: long time, the physics descriptors of the very large and 62 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: the very small seem to be I don't know if 63 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: incompatible is the right word, but but certainly inconsistent with 64 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: one perspective of seeing the universe. What what was the 65 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: cause of that underlying tension? Well, you're absolutely right. So 66 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 1: there are these two major discoveries that happened in the 67 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: twentieth century. One, as you mentioned, is general relativity. It's 68 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: relevant really for the big stuff in the universe, stars, galaxies, 69 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,239 Speaker 1: the whole universe. It's a theory of gravity, and gravity 70 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: matters when things are big. The other main development is 71 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: quantum physics, and that does a fantastic job at describing 72 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: the universe in the other end of the spectrum, the 73 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 1: small stuff, molecules, atoms, subatomic particles, and each of these 74 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,239 Speaker 1: two theories they are found in a completely different ideas. 75 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: They approached the universe in completely different ways. And when 76 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: you try to take the equations of these two descriptions 77 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: and meld them together into one unified hole, which is 78 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: what Albert Einstein wanted to do, really you find that 79 00:04:55,680 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: the equations don't work together. They're these ferocious antagonists every 80 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: time we do a calculation, get a nonsensical result. And 81 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: for decades we've known that that's a real problem, a 82 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: real puzzle. So let's talk a little bit about Albert 83 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: Einstar and he really spent the latter part of his 84 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: professional life trying to find that grand unified theory was 85 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: heat early? Did the technological tools simply not exist to 86 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: give him the building blocks to figure it out? Well. 87 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: Some would even say that we're still too early today. 88 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 1: You know, we're struggling to do exactly what Einstein was 89 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: trying to do century later, a century later, and I 90 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: I would say we have made great progress, but we 91 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: still don't know if any of the ideas that we 92 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: have come up with are actually correct on paper. They're 93 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 1: interesting on paper, they seem to work, but we've been 94 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: unable to test any of these theories as yet because 95 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 1: our technology is so far behind where our theoretical developments 96 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 1: have taken us. So was Einstein too early? He was 97 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 1: deaf only earlier than we and we may be too 98 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: early ourselves. So it could still be the case that 99 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: the unified theory maybe a century off. I don't know, so, 100 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: so let's talk a little bit about Newtonian physics. When 101 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 1: Isaac Newton wrote out his Laws of the Movement of 102 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: the heavenly Bodies, which are still very accurate to this day, 103 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: he envisioned a universe where time and space was rigid. 104 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: And then we look fast forward to Einstein and he 105 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:34,119 Speaker 1: has a much more flexible and dynamic description of time 106 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: and space. What is the next evolution gonna look like? 107 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: I wish I could tell you. If I knew the answer, 108 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: I'd be in my office right now writing it up 109 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: into some spectacular PAPERM can make some guesses. I think 110 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: the next big discovery is going to change our understanding 111 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: of what space is and what time is again the 112 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: way Einstein changed our understanding from Newton. Well, yeah, that's right. 113 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,080 Speaker 1: So what Einstein really did exactly as you describe it. 114 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: He added newfound flexibility to space and time. Newton space 115 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: and times just an arena stage. They don't participate in 116 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: the unfolding of the cosmos. They're just there. I says, no, no, no, 117 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: they're not just there. They do something. They warp and 118 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: they curve in the service of communicating the force of gravity, spectacular, 119 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: new idea, radical, But none of those questions, none of 120 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: those developments give us insight into what space is made 121 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: of or what time is made of. Could it be 122 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: the space and time are made of smaller, more fundamental entities, 123 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: just like any piece of matter. We know it's made 124 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: of molecules, made of atoms, made of sub atomic particles. 125 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: That's been the progression over the course of many decades 126 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: to figure that story out. Maybe space and time themselves 127 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: have fundamental constituents, and if we could identify what they 128 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: are and how they behave and find the mathematical equations 129 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: to describe them, that to me would be the next revolution. 130 00:07:55,720 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: So for a long time, the smallest um article we 131 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: understood was the molecule, and then it became the atom, 132 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: and then protons, neutrons, quarkscluons, etcetera. Is it a never 133 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: ending progression to ever smaller components or can we eventually 134 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: find hey, that's as small as it gets, that's the 135 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: fundamental building block of the entire universe and everything in it. 136 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: So nobody knows. It's a real good question. It's a 137 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: real tough question because it's always difficult to rule out 138 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: the existence of something beyond the reach of your equations 139 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: or beyond the reach of your technology. But personally, my 140 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: own feeling, based on the progression of physics is I 141 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: think that there is gonna come an end. There's gonna 142 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: come a point where we absolutely identify the fundamental ingredients, 143 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: and we absolutely identify the fundamental forces, and we identify 144 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 1: the equations that describe them. I believe that that chapter 145 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: will come to an end. There was another department, or 146 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: I don't know if this is the same department. The 147 00:08:55,440 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: Institute for String Cosmology and astro Particle Physics is a 148 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,959 Speaker 1: separate research facility. Yeah, that's a subset of the Center 149 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: of Theoretical Physics that focuses more on the developments of 150 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: string theory and its applications to cosmology. So, so let's 151 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that. You're best known for 152 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: your work on string theory. My understanding of string theory, uh, 153 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: lay person as it may be is atoms are made 154 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: up of protons, neutrons, electrons, which are broken down to quarks, 155 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: which are broken down to gluons and muons and so 156 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 1: on and so forth. If you take that down to 157 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: its smallest constituent, you end up at a different level 158 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: where the smallest component are vibrating loops of energy, and 159 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: how they vibrate really determines what their characteristics is. That 160 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: is that a fair description is a fair description. The 161 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: one thing I would immediately underscore is everything that you 162 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 1: said prior to mentioning strings is physics that we understand 163 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: and has been tested and we're certain about. When you 164 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: then take the next leap to string theory, you're going 165 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: into domain that is not yet tested. So that really 166 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: is speculation that comes out of decades of mathematics that 167 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: has given us some confidence that these ideas may be correct, 168 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: but they have not yet been tested. So so that's 169 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: a fascinating statement. One of the things that I've read 170 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: other physicists say is that, well, we haven't proven string theory, 171 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: but the math is so nearly perfect that there has 172 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: to be something to it. It's not merely a coincidence. 173 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: Explain that, well, I would say, that's a nutty thing 174 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: to say, yeah, because there's a lot of beautiful math 175 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: in the world, and some of it's relevant to reality 176 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: and some of it's not, And the only way you 177 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: figure it out is by having observations and experiments. You 178 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,719 Speaker 1: need to connect to reality. The flip side, there are 179 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: other folks who say this theory has been around for 180 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: thirty years. I mean, I've been working on this since 181 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: four Okay, so this theory has been around for more 182 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: than thirty years. You still haven't tested it, and therefore 183 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,959 Speaker 1: it's time to move on. It's no longer doing science. 184 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: That's also a nutty perspective because when you're talking about 185 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 1: the universe at such a deep level of existence, way 186 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,119 Speaker 1: smaller than those little particles that you were describing the corks, 187 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: they're huge compared to the strings, and yet they're tiny 188 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: by everyday standards. We're talking about hundreds of millions of 189 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,319 Speaker 1: times smaller than those particles. When you're talking about the 190 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: universe and such extreme realms, it's gonna take a while 191 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: to test it. So you don't just give up because 192 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: the technology hasn't caught up with you. You keep working 193 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: and you try to extract some more clever way that 194 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: you might test these ideas, perhaps using technology we have 195 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: today or in the next few years. So one of 196 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: the lines um one of the criticisms I've read about 197 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: string theory is if we can't test this, is this 198 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 1: really a science or is it a philosophy. That's right, 199 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: So that that's the going line among the detractors of 200 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: that sort. And it would be philosophy. If it were 201 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:02,439 Speaker 1: fundamentally impossible to ever these ideas, then you're not really 202 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: doing science. But that's not the case at all, I 203 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: and are my colleague. We can write down predictions that 204 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: in principle you could test if you had a big 205 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: enough accelerator, and and didn't. We see Einstein making certain 206 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: predictions about things that would happen that only recently were 207 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: proven by the gravitational wave detective and things life. A 208 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: hundred years ago he made a prediction of these ripples 209 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: in the fabric of space gravitation waves. And you're right, 210 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: it took a hundred years, almost to the day to 211 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: to test that prediction. Now what mitigates that somewhat is 212 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: there's an earlier prediction that was confirmed in just four years. 213 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: So in nineteen nine, observations of the distant stars during 214 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 1: a solar eclipse confirmed Einstein's prediction that light should be 215 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: bent as it goes by the surface of the Sun. 216 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: So the detractors will say, come on, Einstein's ideas respectacular 217 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 1: and deep, and it only took four years to confirm them. 218 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: You guys have been going for thirty years and you 219 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: haven't got anything yet. And what I'd say is we've 220 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: jumped so far beyond technology, so far beyond what we 221 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: can see, and that makes it much more difficult to 222 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: test these ideas. Well. He also had the advantage of 223 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: working with gravity, and there's all sorts of things that 224 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: you can look at to perform mathematical tests and experiment. 225 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: That's the point when we're talking about sub sub sub 226 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: atomic particles really where there's only so much we can 227 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,959 Speaker 1: do these days. That's exactly right. So that my favorite 228 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: thing about UM. One of the things that prove Einsteini 229 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: in um relativity is that when we have various satellites 230 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,559 Speaker 1: and space that are used for things like GPS, we 231 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: have to adjust because they're going so much faster than 232 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: we are and they experienced time relatively compared to us, 233 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: that there's a small mathematical adjustment that has to be 234 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: made so your GPS is accurates, right, And if you 235 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: didn't do that, both for the motion of the satellites 236 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: but also for the fact they experienced from gravitational field 237 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: that we do, they're higher up there, further from the 238 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: Earth center, at the gravity there is weaker. Those two 239 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: effects change the rate at which clocks tick off time 240 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: in that satellite, and that's an objective clock, not not 241 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: a subjective human thing. If you didn't take into account, 242 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: GPS would be inaccurate within a day. In fact, this 243 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: is a piece of physics that you may have seen 244 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: in the film Interstellar. I haven't seen it yet, but 245 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: it's This is not a spoiler, but in that film, 246 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: the protagonist goes near a black hole and time elapses 247 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: more slowly near a black hole for exactly because of gravity. 248 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: And then when they come back away from the black hole, 249 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: they have an aged much at all, but their colleague 250 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: on the mothership that was far away has aged decades. 251 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: So there you see a dramatic version of what the 252 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: GPS needs to account for. So when you watch a 253 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: science fiction film like that, do you walk out shaking 254 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: your head and saying, oh, they got the science wrong? 255 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: Or is Hollywood doing a better job being a little 256 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: more accurate these days? I think they're They're pretty accurate 257 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: in to some ext end that that film itself has 258 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: moments where I didn't quite know what science they had 259 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: in mind. But my view is if I go to 260 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: a film and they don't break their own rules, if 261 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: they're self consistent, even if they differ from the rules 262 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: of reality as we understand, that's fine with me. I 263 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: just want a good story and not something where they 264 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: get lazy. They get lazy at the end and do something. 265 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: Come on, you know that sort of thing. So let 266 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: let me get a little technical with you. You are 267 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: credited with code discovering mirror symmetry and spatial topology change. 268 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: What is that, well, spatial topology change is the easier 269 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: one to describe. One of the lessons from Einstein that 270 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: you indicated already is that space is flexible. Newton didn't 271 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: think that, which means not only can space bend and 272 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: warmp it can stretch. And that's what we mean by 273 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: the expanding universe. But in Einstein's meaning that it's not 274 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: just that the galaxies are separating, it's that the fabric 275 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: of space and they're on is moving as exactly as 276 00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: if they're kind of stitched into the fabric of space 277 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: and like expanding, like it's all stretching. Now, in Einstein's 278 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: theory generalativity, space can stretch, but it cannot rip, the 279 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: spandex or the likera can't tear. But we found in 280 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: string theory, when you go beyond Einstein to include quantum effects, 281 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: the fabrica space can rip, it can tear, and that 282 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: way can then repair itself and fundamentally change its shape, 283 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: which we call a change of topology. That's the technical name, 284 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: but it's just a change of shape that Einstein would 285 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: not have thought possible. That string theory, if it's correct, 286 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: allows the universe to undergo. He is also the founder 287 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: of the World Science Festival, which is about to launch 288 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: its tenth edition in New York City later this year 289 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: May thirty, June four. Tell us about the festival. Yeah, 290 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: so this is an event that I co founded with 291 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: Tracy Day, journalist broadcast journalists and about you know, eleven 292 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: twelve years ago, we looked at the state of the 293 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: world and said, look, we celebrate fashion, books, theater, literature, right, 294 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: why don't we celebrate big public celebrations of science, which 295 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: is a vital part of how the world is put 296 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 1: together and how we're gonna live going forward into the future. 297 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:15,719 Speaker 1: So back in two thousand and eight, we founded this 298 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: first edition of the World Science Festival. Here in New 299 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 1: York City. Over a hundred and twenty two thousand people 300 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: came out to the five days of public programming, so 301 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: it was clear that there was this pent up desire 302 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: to go someplace and experience cutting out science in a 303 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: way that you could get it, that you wouldn't find it, 304 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: uh intimidating, you wouldn't have to study, you would just 305 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: be drawn along by these wonderful ideas. And we've been 306 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 1: doing it ever since, creating novel experience of a science 307 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: for the general public. You can be a novice, you 308 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: can be an expert, you can be young, you can 309 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: be old. There's something for everybody in the festival. What 310 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: do you hope the impact is going to be long term? Well, 311 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: the goal really, as articulated in our mission statement, is 312 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,199 Speaker 1: we want people to feel that science has to be 313 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: part of their lives. That it's not something that can 314 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: be left to the scientists. It's not something that you 315 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: can leave to the science classroom. Science is not a subject. 316 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 1: It really is a perspective. It's a way of life. 317 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: It's a way of engaging in the world and being 318 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,959 Speaker 1: able to figure out what's truth, what's not truth, what's fact, 319 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: what's not fact and be able to figure out how 320 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 1: we should take that information, make policy, and in that 321 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: way sculpt the future. What do you make of the 322 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: rise of anti science, be it the vaxers who believe 323 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: that basic vaccines cause autism, or the people who, despite 324 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 1: overwhelming evidence, either don't believe global warming is real or 325 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: don't believe mankind has a hand in its creation. What 326 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: what's the underlying basis? Well, I think there's a general 327 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: distrust of so called experts, a general distrust of of 328 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: the intelligencia, the folks that actually spend their lives thinking 329 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: about deep problems, how they affect the world and how 330 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 1: we're going to solve them. Is a deep distrust there, 331 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 1: and it's up to us, and I hope part of 332 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: the festival will do that, as well as other events 333 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: around the world, to break down the barrier where everybody 334 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: recognizes that they can get the ideas. It's not this 335 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: opaque collection of weird facts and theories that you'll never 336 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: be able to understand. You can get it, and when 337 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,679 Speaker 1: you get it, it's thrilling and allows you to be 338 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 1: part of the process. And when you're part of the process, 339 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 1: you're less distrustful because you understand what's going on. What 340 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: we need to do to get kids more interested in 341 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: math and science. Well, that's a big, big question. And 342 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: of course the classroom is where most kids encounter these 343 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 1: ideas and looked, are many good teachers. So when I 344 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,880 Speaker 1: say that somehow we need to improve the classroom out 345 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: talking about every teacher. But goodness, gracious, I can't tell 346 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: you the number of kids I've spoken to who think 347 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: science is simply about memorizing some facts and spitting them 348 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: back on an exam. And that's tragic. Science is a 349 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: journey of discovery that we have been on for thousands 350 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 1: of years and the things that we've figured out, from 351 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: insight into the origin of the universe, to the existence 352 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 1: of black holes, to the weirdness of time and relativity, 353 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,479 Speaker 1: the strange features of quantum mechanics. When you teach this 354 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 1: stuff to a kid and they can get the basic ideas, 355 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: I've seen their eyes wide open, light up and say wow, 356 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: that science and say, yeah, that's what science is about. 357 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: You know, you and I are only a year or 358 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: two a part in age, and we're of the generation 359 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 1: where we use technology. But we've had to learn how 360 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: to use computers, internet software, programming, etcetera. The generation of 361 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: kids coming up, it's second nature's utensil. You give a 362 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: six month old an iPad and they've mastered it in 363 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: a couple of hours. What is that gonna do for 364 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 1: technology and science going forward? Does that give you hope that, oh, 365 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: these kids really appreciate technology and therefore sciences is right there. 366 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: I wish I could say yes, not necessarily at all, 367 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: because so many folks, so many kids are uses technology. 368 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: They don't care one whit about where it came from 369 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: or how it works. They just want to get on 370 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: to whatever, to Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, whatever. I see 371 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: my kids using these devices, and it makes my heart 372 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: hurt because because they could be using that time to 373 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: think about deep questions, and yet they're frittering away so 374 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: much time in these devices. However, we can use these 375 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: devices as an impetus to show kids, if we do 376 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 1: it right, how there is quantum physics inside of yourself 377 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: on yourself and wouldn't work without being able to direct 378 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: the motion of electrons through tiny microscopic integrated circuits. That's 379 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 1: interesting and exciting if presented in the right way. GPS, 380 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: like we were talking about, your phone has a GPS 381 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: capacity to it. It's got general relativity and something right 382 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,159 Speaker 1: into it. I see the new Apple tagline now with 383 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: general built into it, will charge extra for that. Let's 384 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the creation of the universe. 385 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 1: I'm somewhat tickled by of the theory that nothingness is 386 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: inherently unstable and the universe just vomits into existence because 387 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: eventually nothingness just can't persist. Is that still the best 388 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 1: explanation we have for where the universe came from? It's 389 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: it's certainly one of the explanations, and it has not 390 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 1: really been fully worked out into a form that there's 391 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 1: a consensus in the community that we've got it by 392 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: any means. But it is fascinating to think, as you're saying, 393 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: because the deep question is why is there something rather 394 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,239 Speaker 1: than nothing? That's what liveness asks right centuries ago, and 395 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: it's this deep question right when we say nothing, we 396 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 1: mean the absence of everything, even space and time. And 397 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: as you're saying, one of the ideas is, well, there 398 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: may have been an era when there truly was a 399 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: nothing with a capital end. But it may be that 400 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 1: that nothingness can't persist forever. It may be that Nothingness 401 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 1: tends to disintegrate, and when it disintegrates, nothing turns into 402 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: something and an anti something, and we inhabit to something, 403 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: and that's where the something of the universe comes from. 404 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: So when I was younger, the theory was that there 405 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: was a big bang and that would eventually slow down 406 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 1: and reverse and we'd have a big crunch and that 407 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: would go on forever. And that seems to have based 408 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: on a century ago observations of not only galaxies moving 409 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 1: away from each other, but doing so at an accelerated pace. 410 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: They're they're moving away faster and faster um. So that 411 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 1: kind of gets rid of the big crunch, and it 412 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,959 Speaker 1: leads to the question of entropy and heat death. Are 413 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: we're looking at a universe that's going to expand forever 414 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 1: until it's so far away that there are no stars 415 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: left in the sky and we're essentially looking at nothingness, 416 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: which again maybe begets that unstable uh cycle all over again. 417 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: It certainly looks that way based on the data today. 418 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: In fact, I'm writing a book on this very subject, 419 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: analyzing in great detail what the far future of the 420 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: universe will be like. And the data, if you take 421 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 1: it seriously, does seem to suggest that you're right. The 422 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,199 Speaker 1: expansion of the units will continue on. In fact, it 423 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: will expand ever more quickly over time, and the structures 424 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: in the universe like stars and galaxies will ultimately fall apart, disintegrate, 425 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: gets sucked up into black holes, which themselves can disintegrate 426 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 1: into particles that ultimately a just wafting through and ever 427 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: colder and ever quieter cosmos. It kind of feels a 428 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: little bleak when you describe it that way. But that 429 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 1: how many trillions of years in the future we talk 430 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: well about a trillion years from now. Distant galaxies will 431 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: rush away so far that we can't see them. Our 432 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 1: local galaxies will be able to see, but deep space 433 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: will go dark. And in terms of the evaporation of 434 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 1: black holes, we're talking on the order of ten to 435 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 1: the one hundred years, right, So that's that's long. That's 436 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: ten followed that that yes, that's a google, that's a 437 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: google of of years, and um, it's the time Skille. 438 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: That's so far beyond anything that we've experienced. You know, 439 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 1: we're a ten billion, thirteen billions, so you know, ten 440 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,199 Speaker 1: to the ten years. So we're talking in the exponent 441 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: going from tent to the tent tent to the hundred. 442 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,919 Speaker 1: So these are fantastically large time scales, but amazingly we 443 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 1: can use our observations and our equations to make some 444 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: predictions about what things will be like even on those 445 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: time skills. So let's talk about something a little less bleak. 446 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 1: Let's talk about a multiverse where if our universe might 447 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: be expanding to cold, dark nothingness, there are an infinite 448 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: number of other universes ready to either pop into existence 449 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,640 Speaker 1: or existing in different dimensions. How realistic is that and 450 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: what a strength theory tell us about that? Well, again, 451 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 1: I would underscore that we're now in the realm of 452 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 1: interesting mathematical speculation. But there are many people who take 453 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: that very idea seriously, because as we've tried to understand 454 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 1: the Big Bang with ever greater precision, we found that 455 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: the fuel, if you will, that drove the Big Bang 456 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: is so efficient that it's virtually impossible to use all 457 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: of that fuel up. Some of it drove our Big Bang, 458 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,199 Speaker 1: but someone's left over. What does that leftover fuel do? 459 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: Drives another Big Bang? And even that big bang doesn't 460 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: exhaust all the fuel some's left over, so you get 461 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: bang after bang after bang, universe after universe after universe, 462 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: at least that's what the equation seemed to suggest. So 463 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 1: you're right, our universe could be heading toward this bleak 464 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: future where everything is cold and spread out. But in 465 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: those other universes there may be life forms and their 466 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 1: future may be different from ours. So let's talk a 467 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: little bit about what string theory and your work on 468 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: it says about this in I don't remember which book 469 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: it was, maybe it was probably Hidden Reality Is, my guests. 470 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: I wanted to reference strings as they move through space 471 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: create a membrane in their trail, and there are times 472 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 1: where those membranes cross, and there's a significant reaction to that. Yes, 473 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: so there's a way of thinking about parallel universes which 474 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: string theory gives a particular twist to. It's possible within 475 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: string theory that there are extended objects, not just one 476 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: dimensional filaments like strings. There could be two dimensional membranes 477 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 1: or three dimensional membranes. We could be living on one 478 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: of those membranes. So I like to think of it 479 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 1: as imagine the totality of reality is like a big 480 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: cosmic loaf of bread, where every slice of bread is 481 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 1: like one universe everything we know is happening on one 482 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,200 Speaker 1: piece of bread, But there are other pieces of bread, 483 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: and strength there other membranes which would be other universes. 484 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 1: That's another way in which reality could be much bigger 485 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: than our frail senses would lead us to think. So 486 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about dark matter and dark energy. 487 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: On the one hand, we look at a basic black 488 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: hole in the center of a galaxy, and the visible 489 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 1: mass that we can detect is much much less than 490 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: what gravity suggests would be sufficient to hold uh, that 491 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: galaxy together? Am I getting the numbers right? About of 492 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: the mass is not visible as dark matter? Yeah. So 493 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 1: when you even look at the universe as a whole 494 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: and you say how much of the stuff that makes 495 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: up the universe is the stuff that gives off light, 496 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: the stuff that we know about, the protons and neutrons, 497 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: the electrons, those things, and it's about four or five 498 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 1: that little Yeah, So you've got about twenty five or 499 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: so percent of the universe in something called dark matter 500 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: h And then you've got the rest of it SI 501 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: sevent whatever in something called dark energy. Again, it's an 502 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: energy that suffuses space. We believe it's everywhere and every 503 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: nook and cranny of space. But because it does not 504 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: give off light, we don't see it doesn't give does 505 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: it give off some energy? It well, it it contains energy, 506 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: and because of that, it exerts a gravitational force. In fact, 507 00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: it exerts an anti gravitational force. Pushes every think apart, 508 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: and we believe that's why the universe is speeding up 509 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: in its expansion, that outward push from the dark energy 510 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: filling space. So let's talk about another question that I'm 511 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: fascinated by. I'm aware that gravity is the weakest of 512 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: the major forces, and that the strong nuclear force what 513 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: holds protons and neutrons together, is the strongest force. I 514 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: like the way you demonstrate that by leaping off a building. 515 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: The center of the Earth pulls you towards it, but 516 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: just plain old concrete stops you. And therefore concrete is 517 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: stronger than gravity. But when we look at a black hole, 518 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: we have a mass the size of a giant sun 519 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: that's collapsed to a relatively tiny space, and it seems 520 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: like if you have enough gravity, you can overcome that 521 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: strong force and crunch all those atoms down to a 522 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: tiny fraction of their size. Yes, when we say, gravity 523 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: is much weaker than the other forces, like the nuclear forces. 524 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: We want to do an apples to Apple's comparison. So 525 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: if you say, take just two particles and calculate how 526 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: this strong force may pull them together versus a gravitational force, 527 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: big difference. Strong nuclear force wins. But you're right, you 528 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: put enough stuff together, then cumulatively, the gravity that many, many, 529 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: many particles exert can be stronger than the other forces 530 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: acting between particles. So so gravity is able to crush 531 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: particles together, causing them to fuse together. For instance, that's 532 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: what happens in the Sun. You've got nuclear fusion because 533 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: gravity is squeezing everything together and hydrogen melds into helium, 534 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: and helium keeps on going. So yeah, up until we 535 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: get iron, and then that's pretty much right. When you 536 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: get to iron, it's sort of the end of the 537 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: line the most tightly abound atomic species, and from then 538 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:47,719 Speaker 1: on end the next this next stop is neutron stars 539 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: and black holes. Do you pay much attention to things 540 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: like the rare Earth thesis, which I find, again it's 541 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: a little off your fields of expertise, but the basic 542 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: concept is to get a planet that's stable enough in 543 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: a solar system for not just life, which may be 544 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: surprisingly common, but advanced technological life not to have been 545 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: disrupted continually by what a hostile place the galaxy can be. Uh, 546 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: that's kind of a fascinating idea. Oh totally. You know, 547 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: people have asked the question are we alone? Ever since 548 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: every time we could ask questions, and um, you know, 549 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: there's some who say, look, life appeared on planet Earth 550 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: as quickly as it possibly could, which suggests to them 551 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: that life is just raring to go everywhere in the 552 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: universe where conditions are ripe. On the other hand, to 553 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: get intelligent life that can actually build spacecraft and radio telescopes, 554 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: you need a lot of coincidences, right. You gotta make 555 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: sure that your planet is protected from masteroids that are 556 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: slamming in. You gotta let me take our Planet's a 557 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 1: great example. If if this asteroid hadn't slammed in and 558 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: wiped out the dinosaurs sixty five million years, we wouldn't 559 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: be the dominant folks walking around. It would still be 560 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: the dinosaurs. Now, who knows, maybe by now they would 561 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: have built spacecraft and telescopes and may not have been hard. 562 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: That's right. So so there you go, and we're we're 563 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: even in a part of our own galaxy that doesn't 564 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 1: have too much radiation. We're not too close to the middle, 565 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: we're not too far out. It's really a series of 566 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: Goldilocks events and then the other, which means it might 567 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 1: be very rare. Right, And although rare still can mean 568 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: there are hundreds of thousands in any game, it depends. 569 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: It depends how rare. That's the key question, because if 570 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: the rare, if the probability is sufficiently small, then we 571 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: could be the unique one. We have been speaking with 572 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: Professor Brian Green of Columbia University. If you enjoy this conversation, 573 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: be sure and check out our podcast extras, where we 574 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: keep the tape rolling and continue to talk about all 575 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 1: things cosmological. Be sure and check out my daily column 576 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg View dot com or follow me on Twitter 577 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: at rid Halts. I'm Barry rid Holts. You've been listening 578 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. What could your 579 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 1: future hold? More than you think? Because at Merrill Lynch, 580 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: we work with you to create a strategy built around 581 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: your priorities. Visit mL dot com and learn more about 582 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: Merrill Lynch, an affiliated bank of America. Mery Lynch makes 583 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: available products and services offered by Merrill Lynch. Pierce Federan Smith, Incorporated, 584 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 1: a registered broker dealer. Remember s I PC. Welcome to 585 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: the podcast, Professor Green. Thank you. I don't know what 586 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: to call you, Professor greene Brian Professor, Professor Green seems 587 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: more appropriate. Thank you so much for doing this and 588 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: being so generous with your time. I was saying earlier, 589 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: I have the hardcover of uh, The Elegant Universe somewhere, 590 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: but we moved. It's in boxes and I picked up 591 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: some of the paperbacks to to remind me of what 592 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: I read a while ago. And really, The Elegant Universe 593 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: is so readable. I mean I have I'm a little 594 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: bit of a physics geek, but I don't have any 595 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: significant background, and I found it completely accessible and very 596 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,839 Speaker 1: interesting read for something that is talking about really sophisticated, 597 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 1: complex ideas that's not easy to communicate. Yeah, no, thank you. 598 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: You know. The the challenge, of course, is in building 599 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 1: bridges between things that the typical person who was interested 600 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: in science but not an expert, is familiar with from 601 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 1: everyday life, and building a bridge from the familiar to 602 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: the unfamiliar, and uh, it's a fascinating journey for me 603 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,240 Speaker 1: as a writer and a physicist to try to figure 604 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: out ways of explaining these ideas, and when it works, 605 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 1: you know, it's gratifying. I can imagine them. There are 606 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,839 Speaker 1: some questions I skipped over that I have to get 607 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,720 Speaker 1: to before we get to our our standard questions, and 608 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:54,439 Speaker 1: one of them has to do with um gravitrons, gravitons, gravitrons. 609 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:59,919 Speaker 1: Gravitron I think is the exercise equipment, chin ups, grab 610 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: patons is the party. So we haven't have we discovered 611 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,319 Speaker 1: the particle or is it just theoretical? Just theoretical. It's 612 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: not surprising that we haven't discovered it because, as we 613 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 1: were discussing in the main interview, gravity is the weakest 614 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: of nature's forces. The graviton is the smallest bundle, the 615 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: smallest particle of the weakest force, which makes it enormously 616 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: challenging to try to detect these particles. But most of 617 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 1: us are pretty convinced, based on our understanding of the 618 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 1: other particles that communicate the other forces of nature, that 619 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 1: gravitons are out there, even if we can't actually capture 620 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 1: them like photons, photons is a great example. That's a 621 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,919 Speaker 1: particle that transmits the electromagnetic force. It's the little pack 622 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: at the little bundle of that force. And by analogy, 623 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: the graviton would be the little quanta, the little particle 624 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: transmitting the gravitational force. So I love the thought experiment 625 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: showing the difference between Newtonian physics and nine steining in physics, 626 00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:02,240 Speaker 1: which is all the planets are are revolving around, rotating, 627 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: revolving around the Sun. If the Sun were to magically disappear, 628 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: would it be instantaneous for the planets to be flung 629 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,800 Speaker 1: out in the straight line that they were previously moving 630 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 1: without the Sun holding them in, or would there be 631 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: a delay in the planet physically recognizing that there's no 632 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 1: more gravity and and moving on. The Einsteinian conclusion is 633 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: it would take about as long as a beam of 634 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: light to reach the planet. So you would for what 635 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:33,840 Speaker 1: is it eight and a half or nine minutes with 636 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 1: eight would continue rotating around, uh, the Sun despite its 637 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: being there. Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a beautiful idea. Um. 638 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,919 Speaker 1: You know, Newton's equations that we all learned in high 639 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: school simply tell us that one object pulls on another, 640 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: depending on how far apart they are on their masses. 641 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 1: There's no notion of time in that equation, which means 642 00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: if you change the mass of one or other of 643 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: these bodies, you change the force instantaneously. And that's right. 644 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: So so the formula, if you don't mind me getting 645 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: technical here is you know, ethical g M one M 646 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: two over our square. That's what we all learned. But 647 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 1: if M one, the massive one of those bodies, goes 648 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: to zero, then F goes to zero immediately, which in 649 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 1: the picture you describe, would suggest that if some alien 650 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: were to come in and somehow grab hold of the 651 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 1: Sun and rip it out so it's simply gone, then 652 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 1: Earth and all the planet should instantaneously fly out of 653 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 1: their orbits. Einstein looked at that and said, I'll come on, 654 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 1: that can't possibly be because in nineteen o five he 655 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,560 Speaker 1: discovered that nothing can go faster than the speed of light, 656 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: and that would be an instantaneous conveyance of information. Perfect. Yeah, 657 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 1: an influence that goes from across the whole Solar system 658 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 1: and no time at all. So so what about entangled 659 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: particles and and spooky action at a distance. Is that 660 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 1: still stuck with the speed of light as its limitation. 661 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: That's a subtle question, and we believe the answer to 662 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 1: that question is yes. It's still stuck with it because 663 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,839 Speaker 1: when you have two distant particles that are linked through 664 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,400 Speaker 1: quantum entanglement, it is in fact the case that what 665 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:13,760 Speaker 1: you do to one particle seems to instantaneously have some 666 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:18,360 Speaker 1: kind of quantum effect on the other. However, no information 667 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 1: can ever be transmitted through this effect from the first 668 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 1: particle to the second particle. So it kind of gets 669 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 1: by on the small print if you will, that that 670 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,959 Speaker 1: that there's no information going from one particle together fast 671 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 1: in the speed of light, even though there's a quantum correlation. 672 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:38,800 Speaker 1: Their behaviors are acting in tandem even though they're far apart. 673 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 1: So this goes back to having a better lawyer than God. 674 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 1: That's right, And I've always hated the small prints explanation. 675 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 1: But let me just say that changes instantly. Yeah, isn't 676 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 1: something happening faster than the speed of line. I completely 677 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,600 Speaker 1: empathize with the with the perspective, and in fact, in 678 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 1: one of my books, I think it's the fabric of 679 00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: the cosmos. I described the party line, which is the 680 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 1: one I just told you with the small print no 681 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,319 Speaker 1: information travels, and then the next page and say, hey, 682 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,919 Speaker 1: but look something something here that happens, and it's best 683 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: than the speech, right. And I think part of the 684 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,279 Speaker 1: reason why we can't give the full answer today that 685 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 1: will make you satisfied is that we don't fully understand 686 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,800 Speaker 1: quantum mechanics. There is a real puzzle in quantum physics. 687 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 1: It's called the quantum measurement problem, which is when we 688 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: experimenters measure a quantum particle, our measurement seems to affect it, 689 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 1: but we can't really articulate or describe how that effect 690 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,359 Speaker 1: is communicated or what actually happens. Now you might say, 691 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 1: well that's pretty important. I mean, how do you know 692 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: anything about quantum mechanics if you don't understand how to 693 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,880 Speaker 1: measure something? Well, amazingly, this whole in our understanding, this 694 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: gap does not prevent us from making predictions, from being 695 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,719 Speaker 1: able to harness quantum mechanics to build cell phones and 696 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 1: personal computers, But theoretically there is a gap in our understanding. 697 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,600 Speaker 1: And I think that when we fill that gap. You 698 00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:58,480 Speaker 1: have me on the show and you ask me that 699 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 1: question again about entanglement, and I'm going to be able 700 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,279 Speaker 1: to give you a full answer. So growing up to me, 701 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,799 Speaker 1: that was always we can measure the location or the 702 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: spin or the location of the speed, but not both 703 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,319 Speaker 1: at once. Is that essentially that's still part of our 704 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 1: understanding for sure, that there are complementary qualities of a 705 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 1: particle that cannot simultaneously be ascertained. So you can't know 706 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 1: where the particle is and what its speed is simultaneously. 707 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,880 Speaker 1: You can know one the other, not both. Now, how 708 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 1: does the idea of the process of measuring it changes it? 709 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,279 Speaker 1: And therefore even if you could, you've affected it? Or 710 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,839 Speaker 1: am I misream? You're right on target. You know, there's 711 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,880 Speaker 1: this picture that came to us from Newton, which is, 712 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 1: you know, there are physical systems and you glance at 713 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: them and you measure them, but your measurement doesn't change them, 714 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 1: doesn't affect them. You're simply extracting a feature of that system. 715 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,360 Speaker 1: The distance between the Sun and the Earth, just measure it. 716 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,239 Speaker 1: The speed of that baseball I guess that you have 717 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,359 Speaker 1: baseball of Newton's times, or the speed of that rock. 718 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,440 Speaker 1: You just measure it. It doesn't affect it. But when 719 00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 1: you're talking about particles, you're active measurement on a tiny 720 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,200 Speaker 1: electron can wreck havoc, and that makes it a much 721 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 1: more subtle procedure to understand what a measurement is. And 722 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 1: that's the thing that we've not yet fully resolved. Let 723 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,359 Speaker 1: me issue this question, how confident are you that in 724 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: our lifetimes, uh, there will be a grand unification theory solved. Well, 725 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 1: if no one cracks the issue of immortality, then I 726 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:29,839 Speaker 1: suspect that I'm not particularly optimistic that will have a 727 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,279 Speaker 1: complete unified theory that's been tested to the degree that 728 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,640 Speaker 1: we're ready to lift. I wish I could even say 729 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,239 Speaker 1: for that really, Yeah, you know, we're we're talking a 730 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,439 Speaker 1: century or so off. You see. I think there's something 731 00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: interesting that's about to happen, which is if the large 732 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,480 Speaker 1: had drown collider in Geneva, Switzer just turned back on 733 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 1: actually this week they now it was taken off when 734 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 1: Certain came online because it was so much bigger and 735 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:59,400 Speaker 1: theoretically eat their lunch. But what what changes they due 736 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 1: to the hadron? So the lawn hutter is part of 737 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,840 Speaker 1: Certain and and so what they've done is periodically they 738 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,719 Speaker 1: upgrade it. Yeah, Fermi Lab is the other one here 739 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 1: in the United States, but you know you're right. They 740 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 1: take it offline, they upgrade it, they make it stronger, 741 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,359 Speaker 1: and it's going to be the most powerful incarnation of 742 00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 1: that machine, the highest so called luminosity, the greatest number 743 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,799 Speaker 1: of particles slamming together. That's what it's all about. And 744 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 1: the thing is, if they don't find something new, startlingly new, 745 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,600 Speaker 1: we may find ourselves in a situation where funding agencies 746 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:36,160 Speaker 1: are not so excited in these difficult financials. But they've 747 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,719 Speaker 1: made a series of I mean, if I agree with 748 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 1: if you look at physics the past twenty years, it's 749 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 1: it's almost, I don't want to say a daily newspaper headline, 750 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,319 Speaker 1: but there has just been a series of spectacular from 751 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,719 Speaker 1: the gravitational waves go light on and go down the 752 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,640 Speaker 1: list of here's the problem, here's the problem. None of 753 00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:00,000 Speaker 1: those were unexpected. That doesn't take away from the achieved 754 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 1: of the discovery. But everybody knew that gravitational waves are. 755 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,400 Speaker 1: There is a question of will we have the technological 756 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,440 Speaker 1: wherewithal to detect them. The Higgs particle, everybody believed it 757 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,759 Speaker 1: was there, The question was will we actually find it. 758 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,560 Speaker 1: We did spectacular, So there have been great breakthroughs, but 759 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 1: what we need is something that rocks our world, where 760 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,719 Speaker 1: we can go back to funding agencies and say, we've 761 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,760 Speaker 1: got to understand this. This is an anomaly, this doesn't 762 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,879 Speaker 1: make sense. This is the gateway to a deep new 763 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,360 Speaker 1: understanding of the world. If we can't do that, it 764 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:35,200 Speaker 1: maybe decades or maybe even centuries before we have the 765 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,880 Speaker 1: next big machine. China may step in the rumors that 766 00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,240 Speaker 1: China may build the next big machine, but that's twenty 767 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,600 Speaker 1: thirty years off maybe, so when you talk about time scales, 768 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,359 Speaker 1: and even that big machine may not be powerful enough 769 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:49,560 Speaker 1: to test grand unified theory or string theory. So so 770 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,719 Speaker 1: that's why I'm not particularly optimistic that we're going to 771 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,680 Speaker 1: have the unified theory in hand in the next generation 772 00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:57,879 Speaker 1: or time. I would love China to build a huge 773 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,040 Speaker 1: machine because if you look at how much of modern 774 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:05,280 Speaker 1: technology traces its lineage back to spot Nick, which caused 775 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,600 Speaker 1: a giant arms race. Unfortunately we managed not to blow 776 00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:12,520 Speaker 1: ourselves up, but it's still lead to hey, these guys 777 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,400 Speaker 1: are ahead of us in space. We have to get there. Also, 778 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:20,000 Speaker 1: maybe China would stimulate some competitive juices and and get 779 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:25,240 Speaker 1: governments behind these big physics. Certainly more exciting than building 780 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,759 Speaker 1: a border wall. So I would, uh, well, we could 781 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:33,960 Speaker 1: test if galileis theories. See if things drop, you're gonna 782 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,799 Speaker 1: see science in the border, right, Can you could do that? Now? 783 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,000 Speaker 1: Granted it's not a vacuum. Which side of the wall 784 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:44,120 Speaker 1: you're gonna drop things on that? It depends on the 785 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:48,319 Speaker 1: nationality of the scientists, I guess. Um, all right, so 786 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,560 Speaker 1: I wanted I didn't get to uh Icarus before. And 787 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:55,120 Speaker 1: I have to ask you a couple of questions which 788 00:44:55,239 --> 00:45:00,879 Speaker 1: come from it's me moving my papers around. These come 789 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,960 Speaker 1: from Maddock, age ten, and Ellis, age seven, who are 790 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,959 Speaker 1: big fans of Icarus at the Edge of Time, which 791 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,879 Speaker 1: is the kid's book you wrote about black holes. I'm 792 00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,280 Speaker 1: not going to give you all the questions they asked, 793 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,600 Speaker 1: but I'm just gonna give you the top fifty or so. Um, 794 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,360 Speaker 1: when did you first become interested in astrophysics? When I 795 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,239 Speaker 1: was quite young, five or six years old. I grew 796 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:27,240 Speaker 1: up across from the planetarium, which I think is certainly 797 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,960 Speaker 1: part of it. But I always had this urge to 798 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,040 Speaker 1: look out and think about stars and the galaxies. And 799 00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,640 Speaker 1: my dad was a big mentor of mine and those things. 800 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:38,840 Speaker 1: He wasn't trained in any of the stuff. But he 801 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,800 Speaker 1: was just fascinated by who's a composer, a singer performer, 802 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,000 Speaker 1: But he would tell me all about this stuff, so 803 00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,480 Speaker 1: quite young. So what can we learn from black holes 804 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:51,160 Speaker 1: and how relevant are they to our daily lives? Well, 805 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:56,680 Speaker 1: black holes are the primary theoretical laboratory that people like 806 00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:00,600 Speaker 1: me play with because they're so extreme, so much mass 807 00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 1: crushed to such a fantastically small size. And when you 808 00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:08,080 Speaker 1: have such extreme domains, that's when you can break existing ideas, 809 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,080 Speaker 1: where existing ideas can fail, and where they fail as 810 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,799 Speaker 1: an opportunity to step in with new understanding. But that 811 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:18,240 Speaker 1: again is in the theoretical realm. Black holes are becoming 812 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:22,120 Speaker 1: more and more part of the observational realm. There's this 813 00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:24,280 Speaker 1: new telescope have you heard about. It's called the event 814 00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:28,759 Speaker 1: horizon telescope, where they're actually looking right at the edge 815 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,520 Speaker 1: of so called event horizons of black holes to perhaps 816 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,719 Speaker 1: really see what's happening there, take a photograph of a 817 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:40,319 Speaker 1: black hole itself, so they're becoming launched into that's right. Well, 818 00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,440 Speaker 1: actually it's a it's a series of radio telescopes around 819 00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:47,839 Speaker 1: the Earth that are working together to combine their imagery 820 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,560 Speaker 1: to create a very high resolution picture of a black hole. 821 00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,200 Speaker 1: So more and more black holes are becoming part of 822 00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:58,319 Speaker 1: the the everyday side of observational science. So they're not 823 00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,160 Speaker 1: as esoteric as they once were. And the current theory 824 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,680 Speaker 1: is that black holes exist in the center of each galaxy. 825 00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,080 Speaker 1: Is that that seems to be the case? Yeah, So 826 00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:10,640 Speaker 1: this went from a crazy idea to an abstract thesis 827 00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,640 Speaker 1: to every galaxy has one. Yeah. When this idea first 828 00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:17,800 Speaker 1: came online, this is back in about nineteen seventeen or 829 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:22,120 Speaker 1: nineteen sixteen, Karl Schwarzschild was playing with Einstein's mathematics and 830 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,399 Speaker 1: came upon this idea. Einstein resisted the idea of black 831 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,120 Speaker 1: holes throughout his life, even even he was writing paper 832 00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:32,120 Speaker 1: showing here's why black holes can't be real. So he 833 00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,480 Speaker 1: was a revolutionary thinker, but also conservative in some ways too. 834 00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:39,960 Speaker 1: But yes, now there's virtually no denying that black holes 835 00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,200 Speaker 1: are actually out there. Mean, we're gonna take a photograph 836 00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,200 Speaker 1: of the edge of a black hole. There may be 837 00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,759 Speaker 1: uncertainties about what happens inside a black hole in the 838 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,640 Speaker 1: detailed mathematics that really describes them, but these entities do 839 00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,960 Speaker 1: appear to be part of the universe. What about wormholes. 840 00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,879 Speaker 1: That's the theory that we haven't really seen a whole 841 00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,920 Speaker 1: lot of evidence for, but there's a lot of theoretic 842 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:04,320 Speaker 1: excitement around it, certainly much more speculative than than black holes. 843 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:09,520 Speaker 1: I mean, wormholes are allowed by Einstein's mathematics, but there's 844 00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:13,520 Speaker 1: zero evidence that they're actually real, and therefore there's sort 845 00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,400 Speaker 1: of zero reason to think that they're out there today. 846 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:18,560 Speaker 1: But look, you could have said that about a lot 847 00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,359 Speaker 1: of stuff in the world before we encountered it. So 848 00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,080 Speaker 1: I'm I would be remiss or would be a little 849 00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,600 Speaker 1: bit naive for me to suggest that they're absolutely not real, 850 00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,560 Speaker 1: but there's just no evidence yet. And one more question 851 00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,440 Speaker 1: from Maddi and ellis what do you want the young 852 00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,560 Speaker 1: reader to learn from your book? The point of Vicorus 853 00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,760 Speaker 1: at the Edge of Time was to give the reader 854 00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,280 Speaker 1: a sense of what happens at a black hole without 855 00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:47,000 Speaker 1: it being an instruction manual, without it being pedagogical, without 856 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,200 Speaker 1: it being a teacher or a professor telling you what's 857 00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:52,480 Speaker 1: going on, merely by virtue of going for the ride. 858 00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:55,880 Speaker 1: In this story, so boy build a spaceship, goes to 859 00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:57,920 Speaker 1: the edge of a black Hole's dad says not to 860 00:48:57,960 --> 00:48:59,840 Speaker 1: do it. It's like the original myth of Icarus, but 861 00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:03,120 Speaker 1: instead of the sun with wax wings, you know, it's 862 00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:05,760 Speaker 1: a boy building his spaceship. And then when he comes 863 00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,200 Speaker 1: back from this journey, he doesn't die, but because time 864 00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,319 Speaker 1: slows down near the edge of a black hole, when 865 00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,120 Speaker 1: he comes back and wants to show his dad what 866 00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,080 Speaker 1: he's done, he quickly realizes that he comes back to 867 00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:19,040 Speaker 1: world ten thousand years into the future. And this is 868 00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,759 Speaker 1: what really could happen. This is not science fiction, even 869 00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:23,839 Speaker 1: though the story, of course is fictional, and I want 870 00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,080 Speaker 1: people to get a feel for what it is that 871 00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:28,719 Speaker 1: happens at a black hole, and also to recognize if 872 00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:30,680 Speaker 1: if I'm just going to finish up my answer maybe 873 00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,640 Speaker 1: a little too long winded, but I hated I hated 874 00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,239 Speaker 1: the original myth of Acres. It kind of said if 875 00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,960 Speaker 1: you don't do what your dad says, you die, right. 876 00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,880 Speaker 1: I mean, dad says Kris don't fly near the sun. 877 00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:45,799 Speaker 1: Acres does because he's courageous, maybe a little reckless, and 878 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,560 Speaker 1: he dies side. But you know, if you're going to 879 00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,600 Speaker 1: have a breakthrough in science, you've got to be somewhat reckless. 880 00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,680 Speaker 1: You have to go against what people tell you cannot 881 00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,520 Speaker 1: do what your forefathers or four mothers tell you to do. 882 00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,920 Speaker 1: You may return to a strange reality if you discover 883 00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:05,440 Speaker 1: something spectacular, but that's the nature of the beast. I 884 00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,320 Speaker 1: recall when when one of the colliders was coming online, 885 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,840 Speaker 1: we got warnings of they're going to create a black 886 00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,239 Speaker 1: hole here on Earth. I thought that was kind of yeah, 887 00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:15,960 Speaker 1: that was a vigorous like fear. Well, yeah, this is 888 00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,000 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight. They're turning on the machine. And 889 00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,640 Speaker 1: I got a call from so many news outlets to 890 00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:22,840 Speaker 1: be on television to talk about the starting of the 891 00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,120 Speaker 1: large hatch on collider, and I was like, wow, science 892 00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:27,440 Speaker 1: is mainstream. We've really got there. They didn't want to 893 00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,880 Speaker 1: talk about the collider. They want to talk about this 894 00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,920 Speaker 1: little black hole that might be created that might suck 895 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,359 Speaker 1: up Geneva. Nobody really worried about that here, but then 896 00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,279 Speaker 1: it might suck up the rest of the planet Earth. 897 00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,759 Speaker 1: People start to worry a lot about that, and that's 898 00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:42,560 Speaker 1: what it was about. The good news is you wouldn't 899 00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:46,760 Speaker 1: even feel it, that's right. So there are two other 900 00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,800 Speaker 1: string theory related questions I have to ask before I 901 00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:54,680 Speaker 1: moved to my standard questions one is all right, our 902 00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:59,239 Speaker 1: everyday common experience, we have the three spatial dimensions X, y, 903 00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,279 Speaker 1: and z plus time is for how do we get 904 00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:06,359 Speaker 1: from that to eleven? Because eleven seems like a lot 905 00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,160 Speaker 1: of dimensions. It is a lot of dimensions. And it's 906 00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:12,120 Speaker 1: a strange idea because you look around the world and there's, 907 00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,440 Speaker 1: as you say, left, right, back forth, up down, the 908 00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,919 Speaker 1: three spatial dimensions of common experience. Where in the world 909 00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,240 Speaker 1: could there be more than that? There's just no room 910 00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:23,960 Speaker 1: for it. And yet the mathematics of string theory suggests 911 00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:26,960 Speaker 1: that there are additional dimensions of space. So it's been 912 00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:29,440 Speaker 1: up to us to figure out where they are, and 913 00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,120 Speaker 1: that's really been the focus of my work for many decades. 914 00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:35,040 Speaker 1: Others as well have worked on this enormously, and the 915 00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:37,680 Speaker 1: ideas that maybe these other dimensions are all around us, 916 00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,880 Speaker 1: they're just crumpled to such a fantastically small size that 917 00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:42,960 Speaker 1: we can't see them with the naked eye or even 918 00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:47,040 Speaker 1: with our most powerful equipment. But that's the idea if 919 00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,040 Speaker 1: these if these theories are correct, we're looking at a 920 00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:50,960 Speaker 1: world that has more dimensions than the three that we 921 00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,640 Speaker 1: know about. The explanation that I've found interesting is it's 922 00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:58,919 Speaker 1: a function of perspective. If if you're um an ant 923 00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,040 Speaker 1: on a line, well you only see folding back. And 924 00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:04,279 Speaker 1: if that line turns out to be a garden hose, well, 925 00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:06,840 Speaker 1: oh guess what. Now there's another dimension you can travel. 926 00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,680 Speaker 1: We're stuck in three dimensions, and therefore we we lack 927 00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,799 Speaker 1: the ability to see your experience the other seven. But 928 00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:17,880 Speaker 1: it seems like a lot now. At one point in 929 00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:22,839 Speaker 1: time there were a variety of different numbers of dimensions. 930 00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,279 Speaker 1: How did we settle on eleven? Well, and there were 931 00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:29,960 Speaker 1: originally five different theories and Witten, Professor Whitten took a 932 00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,360 Speaker 1: took a paddle to them and basically came up on 933 00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,320 Speaker 1: them altogether. Yeah. Edward Whitten, who's sort of the grand 934 00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:38,960 Speaker 1: master of string theory at the Institute for a Vance Study, 935 00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:42,600 Speaker 1: had a great breakthrough in the mides. There were five 936 00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:45,759 Speaker 1: competing versions of string theory. All of them had nine 937 00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,000 Speaker 1: dimensions of space, had six additional ones, not the seven 938 00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:53,919 Speaker 1: that we're referring to. And um, he realized that if 939 00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,160 Speaker 1: you looked at it the right way, all these five 940 00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:59,920 Speaker 1: theories are actually different windows onto the same theory number one. Moreover, 941 00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:03,200 Speaker 1: when you did the more precise analysis that this combined 942 00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:07,320 Speaker 1: perspective gave you. You found one additional dimension of space 943 00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:09,839 Speaker 1: that we had long missed, and that's what took us 944 00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,439 Speaker 1: from nine dimensions of space to ten, which, as you say, 945 00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:17,000 Speaker 1: with time takes us to eleven space time dimensions. So 946 00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,680 Speaker 1: that number is pretty stable now right now. But yeah, 947 00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:22,840 Speaker 1: that's the historical progression. And Witten was, Um, there's the 948 00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:26,000 Speaker 1: old I think it's Kipling the parable of the six 949 00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,840 Speaker 1: blind men describing the elephant, and they're all on a 950 00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,160 Speaker 1: different body part the trunk, the ear of the tail, 951 00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:33,359 Speaker 1: and you have they're describing the same thing, just from 952 00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,400 Speaker 1: a different person exactly. And then the last question I 953 00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,279 Speaker 1: have before I get to my favorites. When we look 954 00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:43,279 Speaker 1: at the remnants of the big Big Bang, there are 955 00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:47,080 Speaker 1: lots of clues. So we have the cosmic background radiation, 956 00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:49,480 Speaker 1: we have the cold spots and parts of the universe. 957 00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:53,920 Speaker 1: There are all sorts of evidence that, hey, this seems 958 00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:58,200 Speaker 1: to have really happened. We may not understand precisely how, 959 00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:03,160 Speaker 1: but we have a pretty substantial body of of um 960 00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:07,400 Speaker 1: observations that that support it. In any of these observations, 961 00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:12,560 Speaker 1: do we find support for superstring theory. No, Now that 962 00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:16,359 Speaker 1: is not a black mark against the theory, because the 963 00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:20,040 Speaker 1: theory really comes into its own in domains that have 964 00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:23,400 Speaker 1: much higher energy, much smaller distances than the things that 965 00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:25,960 Speaker 1: we can see, even with the most powerful telescopes or 966 00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:30,160 Speaker 1: even with hit the Large Hadron collider. So the theory 967 00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:34,279 Speaker 1: can agree with everything that we found, but where it 968 00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:37,200 Speaker 1: differs from the things that we know about those are 969 00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,080 Speaker 1: domains that we can't yet access. So we're in this 970 00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:43,760 Speaker 1: kind of curious slimbo land that we have this beautiful 971 00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:48,160 Speaker 1: mathematical theory that seems to unify things gravity and quantum 972 00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:52,400 Speaker 1: mechanics does it with some strange and wonderful ideas, extra 973 00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,880 Speaker 1: dimensions of space being one of them, fundamental filaments at 974 00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:58,799 Speaker 1: the heart of matter being another. But we've yet to 975 00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,480 Speaker 1: be able to deter aman if these ideas are actually 976 00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:06,000 Speaker 1: describing our universe. That that's quite fascinating. So so now 977 00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:10,480 Speaker 1: let me jump to my favorite UH pod question podcast 978 00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:14,120 Speaker 1: questions UH that I asked all of my guests, so 979 00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:17,279 Speaker 1: I know a decent amount about your background. Did you 980 00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:20,280 Speaker 1: ever think about doing anything other than going into physics? 981 00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:22,839 Speaker 1: Oh gosh, Well, when I was really a little up 982 00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:24,600 Speaker 1: to sort of ten or eleven, years old, I was 983 00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:28,160 Speaker 1: intent on being a professional bowlers bowler, not even a 984 00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:31,880 Speaker 1: baseball player. Definitely bowler. I used to spend my summer's 985 00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:34,399 Speaker 1: bowling over on the east side of the eight Street 986 00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,200 Speaker 1: in New York Avenue. Used to be a bowling I 987 00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:40,000 Speaker 1: don't that's the thing of my past. I gave that up. 988 00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:43,919 Speaker 1: Okay eight years UM, I have to send you a 989 00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,800 Speaker 1: YouTube video of a bowler who in I think forty 990 00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:51,920 Speaker 1: three seconds bowls of perfect game. I'll send this to you. 991 00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:54,960 Speaker 1: He goes, you know, bowling alleys here in lanes and 992 00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:59,440 Speaker 1: bull How do you even reset the pens because it 993 00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:02,239 Speaker 1: because by the content one. Then he goes back to 994 00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:04,680 Speaker 1: the first one and does the last three things. That's amazing. 995 00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:07,319 Speaker 1: If you're a bowler at all, I will appreciate you 996 00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,520 Speaker 1: will find that quite like, Oh my goodness. UM. So 997 00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:15,040 Speaker 1: aside from being a professional bowler, what else was well? 998 00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:19,800 Speaker 1: You know? Um, if I was to go back in retrospect, 999 00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:22,920 Speaker 1: I would say neuroscience is one of the most amazing 1000 00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,800 Speaker 1: fast fields that that are being developed today. So I 1001 00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:30,560 Speaker 1: could certainly imagine loving being a researcher in that field. Uh. Certainly, 1002 00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,960 Speaker 1: writing is something that I take very seriously, and and 1003 00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,399 Speaker 1: that is I do consider myself that's part of what 1004 00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:39,680 Speaker 1: I do. Well, you've got four going on five books. 1005 00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:42,000 Speaker 1: I think it's the fifth book. You're allowing that you 1006 00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:45,600 Speaker 1: can call yourself that. Yeah, exactly. Um, so those are 1007 00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:49,000 Speaker 1: sort of the main things. I never really imagine doing 1008 00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:52,120 Speaker 1: anything radically different from It was always going to be 1009 00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:56,960 Speaker 1: science and communicating. So tell us about some of your 1010 00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:01,359 Speaker 1: early mentors. You you have some fast in schooling, and 1011 00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:05,040 Speaker 1: you've worked with some amazing people. Yeah, well, you know, 1012 00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:07,640 Speaker 1: I I went to New York City public schools, you know, 1013 00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:11,479 Speaker 1: through through eighth grade. Then I went to Stuyveson High School, 1014 00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:14,560 Speaker 1: which is still a public school, and I was fortunate 1015 00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,000 Speaker 1: in the seventh grade. It must have been that my 1016 00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:20,560 Speaker 1: math teacher at i S forty four, the intermediate school 1017 00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:24,520 Speaker 1: in seventy Street, gave me a note that I took 1018 00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:26,960 Speaker 1: up to Columbia University. In the note basically said, hey, 1019 00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,240 Speaker 1: this kid's smart in math, we can't teach him anything 1020 00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:31,760 Speaker 1: else and can you help us out? And I just 1021 00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,760 Speaker 1: handed this to person after person on the Columbia campus. 1022 00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:37,040 Speaker 1: Sort of a weird thing to knocking on doors, and 1023 00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:39,720 Speaker 1: amazingly I knocked on a door in the math department 1024 00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:42,680 Speaker 1: and a fellow named Neil Bellensen, one of the most 1025 00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:50,560 Speaker 1: generous smart spect you're something like that, Yeah, I must 1026 00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:53,600 Speaker 1: be and um and and he said he looked at 1027 00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:55,160 Speaker 1: the note and he said, sure, I'll teach you. And 1028 00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:57,040 Speaker 1: it was, you know, for free. We didn't have money, 1029 00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,320 Speaker 1: couldn't pay him, and just out of the goodness of 1030 00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:01,880 Speaker 1: his heart, he met with me three four times a 1031 00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:04,040 Speaker 1: week over the summers, taught me math that I'd never 1032 00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:06,600 Speaker 1: learned any other way. During the year, I'd meet with 1033 00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:09,480 Speaker 1: him on Saturdays. He picked me up at the bus 1034 00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,680 Speaker 1: stop near his house in the cold of winter and 1035 00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:13,920 Speaker 1: taking we'd learn that. I mean, who does this? What 1036 00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:16,880 Speaker 1: an amazing thing. And it allowed me just to sail 1037 00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:20,280 Speaker 1: off into mathematical domains that kept my interest going and 1038 00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:22,400 Speaker 1: really just kept the juices flowing in my brain, which 1039 00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:25,680 Speaker 1: is very important. Wow, that's fascinating. And his name was 1040 00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,960 Speaker 1: Neil Bellensen. And if he's listening, I don't know where 1041 00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:30,680 Speaker 1: he is, you know, I haven't a contact with him 1042 00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:34,960 Speaker 1: in like decades. Maybe he'll hear this. That's that's that's amazing. 1043 00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,720 Speaker 1: Any other mentors you wanna want to mention? Well, I 1044 00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:40,800 Speaker 1: had some great teachers in the New York City public schools, 1045 00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:44,120 Speaker 1: a guy named Danny Kotalk. I don't know if he's 1046 00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:46,360 Speaker 1: still alive any longer. He he, he was the guy 1047 00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:49,560 Speaker 1: that wrote that note. And he again was just a 1048 00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:54,400 Speaker 1: spectacular teacher that just made mathematics so fascinating and just 1049 00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:57,360 Speaker 1: kept kept the interest going there. Um. And then you 1050 00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:59,880 Speaker 1: know when we when we go to high school and college. 1051 00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:02,960 Speaker 1: Know there's a professor at Harvard, Howard George I one 1052 00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:06,160 Speaker 1: of the great particle physicists of our era. And uh 1053 00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:09,080 Speaker 1: he again just I would go talk to him when 1054 00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:11,360 Speaker 1: as a freshman, I just knock on his door, is bold, 1055 00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:13,080 Speaker 1: and he would open the door and I'd walk in. 1056 00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:15,480 Speaker 1: For hours, we talk about stuff, and he teach me 1057 00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:18,280 Speaker 1: stuff on the blackboard. So again, you know, the one 1058 00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:22,000 Speaker 1: lesson is if you're willing to go forward people are. 1059 00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:24,760 Speaker 1: They're willing to help you. They're not necessarily going to 1060 00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:26,400 Speaker 1: come to you, but if you go to them, the 1061 00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:29,280 Speaker 1: opportunities are there. I'm intrigued by the story that you're 1062 00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:33,160 Speaker 1: on campus and you see a flyer uh lecture this 1063 00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:36,760 Speaker 1: evening the theory of everything. Yeah, that sounds interesting. Let's 1064 00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,920 Speaker 1: go look at that is that what led you into 1065 00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:42,040 Speaker 1: deeper into the world of physically totally. I was a 1066 00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,920 Speaker 1: graduate tude at Oxford, you know, in England, and uh 1067 00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:48,320 Speaker 1: I was, as you're saying, walking across the campus one 1068 00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:51,200 Speaker 1: day and saw that sign and I went and checked 1069 00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:52,919 Speaker 1: it out and it was a talk about gang named 1070 00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:55,920 Speaker 1: Michael Green, not related to me, and he was one 1071 00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:57,880 Speaker 1: of the founders of strength here and he was talking 1072 00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,120 Speaker 1: about the breakthrough that he and a guy named On 1073 01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:03,800 Speaker 1: Schwartz who's at Caltech, that they had found. And that's 1074 01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:06,800 Speaker 1: what turned me onto string theory as a graduate student, 1075 01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:10,160 Speaker 1: and I shifted my work, and just about everybody else 1076 01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:12,880 Speaker 1: in the world shifted their work to focus on this 1077 01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:17,600 Speaker 1: new idea that they had come up with. Intriguing Who 1078 01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:22,040 Speaker 1: else influenced your approach to thinking about science, physics, math 1079 01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:26,200 Speaker 1: or communication. Well, I'd like to think that that Einstein 1080 01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:29,920 Speaker 1: is always with me and my colleagues too. Of course, 1081 01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:32,400 Speaker 1: every step of the way, Almost everything that I do 1082 01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:36,760 Speaker 1: has in some sense intellectual roots that go back to 1083 01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:40,800 Speaker 1: Einstein's ideas. He's pervasive in the field. But the other 1084 01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:44,040 Speaker 1: person is the Einstein of our age, which is Edward 1085 01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:46,960 Speaker 1: Whitten at the Institute for Advanced Study again. You know, 1086 01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:50,320 Speaker 1: so many of the papers that I've done ultimately go 1087 01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,000 Speaker 1: back to ideas that he had that we were able 1088 01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:55,200 Speaker 1: to develop in one way or another. I spent a 1089 01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:58,320 Speaker 1: wonderful year at the Institute for Advanced Study, you know, 1090 01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:01,800 Speaker 1: decades ago, where talking to Ed Witten every day. We 1091 01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:05,720 Speaker 1: actually got into a little friendly competition where this idea 1092 01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:08,880 Speaker 1: that space could rip the topology change. He had a 1093 01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:10,840 Speaker 1: way of doing it, we had a way of doing it. 1094 01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:13,800 Speaker 1: And during those three months we were all racing to 1095 01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:16,320 Speaker 1: the finish line, and we we finished at the same time, 1096 01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:19,840 Speaker 1: different approaches, published our papers on the same day. Really, yeah, 1097 01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:24,040 Speaker 1: so it was a wonderfully exciting time. He has yeah 1098 01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:26,280 Speaker 1: to to come up with these strange ideas. He has 1099 01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:31,720 Speaker 1: some um lectures and interviews online, and he is just 1100 01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:36,640 Speaker 1: such a soft spoken, gentle individual. It's hard to imagine 1101 01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:42,760 Speaker 1: him in like bloodthirsty academic debate because he just seems to, well, 1102 01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:45,360 Speaker 1: here's the thing, but he doesn't he doesn't need to 1103 01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:48,120 Speaker 1: ever get angry because he's so much smarter than everybody else. 1104 01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:52,480 Speaker 1: He can crush just you know a few words. Everybody 1105 01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:56,600 Speaker 1: I've seen or reads have said, Hey, we're all really smart. 1106 01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:59,200 Speaker 1: And then there's Ed Witten. It's just a different now 1107 01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:01,040 Speaker 1: and working with him is quite a trip. You know. 1108 01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:03,080 Speaker 1: There'd be five of us in his office and we're 1109 01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:05,160 Speaker 1: talking about stuff, and all of a sudden, he stops talking. 1110 01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:09,000 Speaker 1: He looks up. Everybody gets quiet because Ed is thinking, 1111 01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:12,600 Speaker 1: and you don't disturb Ed's thinking. And you know, sometimes 1112 01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:15,439 Speaker 1: he really is coming up with something new. Sometimes maybe 1113 01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:18,160 Speaker 1: he's just thinking about lunch, you know. So there are 1114 01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:19,840 Speaker 1: times when I was a little bit bold and I'd 1115 01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:22,120 Speaker 1: say so, at any anything else that we should have 1116 01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:24,640 Speaker 1: to like fifteen minutes of silence, you know, at anything else, 1117 01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:26,440 Speaker 1: you should talk about it. No, No, we're good. Well 1118 01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:28,480 Speaker 1: we'll meet again later and we'd all leap the office. 1119 01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:31,000 Speaker 1: And that's amazing. Let's talk about books. This is the 1120 01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:34,320 Speaker 1: most popular question I get from from readers and listeners. 1121 01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:40,560 Speaker 1: What are some of your favorite books? Well, God, fiction, nonfiction, physics, 1122 01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:43,320 Speaker 1: what hell? Yeah, and the fiction domain. I'm a great 1123 01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:47,560 Speaker 1: fan of Camu, you know. Uh, The Stranger is one 1124 01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:50,880 Speaker 1: of my favorite books. Wait, I always thought that was 1125 01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:56,560 Speaker 1: fit nonfiction existentialism and yeah, no, but he he wrote stories, uh, 1126 01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:59,880 Speaker 1: and um, the stories are tell the storytell the story 1127 01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:03,960 Speaker 1: and and they're just amazing works of literature. Um, so 1128 01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:06,600 Speaker 1: that's Kafka. You know. The Trial I think is one 1129 01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:09,760 Speaker 1: of the one of the great stories quite relevant in 1130 01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:13,920 Speaker 1: our aids. Uh certainly Orwell is one of my favorite authors. 1131 01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:18,080 Speaker 1: Four Animal Farm. You know, in the nonfiction domain, there's 1132 01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:20,240 Speaker 1: a book I don't know if you know of it. 1133 01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:23,000 Speaker 1: It's called The Denial of Death by Ernest Becker, one 1134 01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:25,280 Speaker 1: the seventy four Pulterer Project. I think that was a 1135 01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:29,640 Speaker 1: year one of the most influential books I've ever read. Really, yeah. Yeah. 1136 01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:32,120 Speaker 1: It really describes human motivation and why we do what 1137 01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:36,640 Speaker 1: we do from sort of a post Freudian perspective where 1138 01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:40,360 Speaker 1: we really are the only species that knows that we're 1139 01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:43,120 Speaker 1: going to die, and that drives us to try to 1140 01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:46,120 Speaker 1: do things that will give us a sense of permanence. 1141 01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:48,800 Speaker 1: And if you take that perspective, I can't do it 1142 01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:51,920 Speaker 1: justice in thirty seconds, but you recognize so much of 1143 01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:55,160 Speaker 1: what we do is driven by this fear of the 1144 01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:58,040 Speaker 1: impending doom that faces us all. And I have to 1145 01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:00,360 Speaker 1: tell you this is a book that's really even influencing 1146 01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:02,480 Speaker 1: the book I'm writing right now. The book I'm writing 1147 01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:05,000 Speaker 1: now is about the whole history of the universe from 1148 01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:07,040 Speaker 1: the beginning to the end, and as you describe it, 1149 01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:09,680 Speaker 1: the future does look like a death to the universe, 1150 01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:11,960 Speaker 1: the heat death. We even use that language. And the 1151 01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:15,080 Speaker 1: book kind of shows an interplay between our recognition as 1152 01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:18,000 Speaker 1: a species that we will die with this recognition that 1153 01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:20,320 Speaker 1: the universe as a whole is going to die, and 1154 01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:22,480 Speaker 1: how do those notions play off of each other, has 1155 01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:24,600 Speaker 1: that effect how we live? That's sort of what this 1156 01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:27,520 Speaker 1: book is about. Fascinating, and any of the books you 1157 01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:30,560 Speaker 1: want to mention, give us a give us a physics 1158 01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:33,880 Speaker 1: book that's not your own, that that you think is 1159 01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:39,720 Speaker 1: worth pursuing. Wow, or cosmology or astrophysics or uh, well, 1160 01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:43,440 Speaker 1: you know Richard Dawkins, if we're gonna outside of itself, 1161 01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:46,000 Speaker 1: you know what a beautiful writer, you know, and what 1162 01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:49,400 Speaker 1: a capacity he has for taking ideas in the biological 1163 01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:51,920 Speaker 1: realm and just writing in a way that can make 1164 01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:54,200 Speaker 1: you weep. I mean, it's such such a beautiful writing. 1165 01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:57,480 Speaker 1: So I'd say he certainly is. Anything that he's written 1166 01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:02,200 Speaker 1: is well worth one's time to read, really quite quite fascinating. Also, 1167 01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:05,560 Speaker 1: I would say Stephen Pinker, he was a previous guest, 1168 01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:12,400 Speaker 1: I love the concept. So I a little self interested digression. 1169 01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:15,400 Speaker 1: So I do a lot of work with behavioral economics 1170 01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:18,600 Speaker 1: and why investors are so bad at what they do 1171 01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:23,400 Speaker 1: because of the cognitive wet wear was not designed you know, 1172 01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:26,200 Speaker 1: if it was a pharmaceutical, we would call it off 1173 01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:30,960 Speaker 1: label usage. We weren't designed for there, and and Pinker's 1174 01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:37,880 Speaker 1: book The Better UM Better Angels of Our Nature UM 1175 01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:41,800 Speaker 1: basically shows how things can be getting better and better 1176 01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:45,360 Speaker 1: and better, and yet you're unaware of it. The phrase 1177 01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:49,000 Speaker 1: I use as denominator blindness. But if you see, you know, 1178 01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:51,600 Speaker 1: something on the news, there was this crime, this murder, 1179 01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:54,440 Speaker 1: this robbery, Well, what does that tell you about the 1180 01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:56,840 Speaker 1: overall trend? Is this more than average? Is this less 1181 01:05:56,840 --> 01:06:00,000 Speaker 1: than average? We've been hearing about all these terrible crimes, 1182 01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:03,680 Speaker 1: and yet by every data point we look at, most 1183 01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:07,240 Speaker 1: serious crimes are at thirty, forty, even forty five year lows. 1184 01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:13,120 Speaker 1: You look around the world's poverty, uh slavery, nutritional short 1185 01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:15,840 Speaker 1: for they're all there has never been a better time 1186 01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:19,200 Speaker 1: to be a human being on this planet. And yet 1187 01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:21,520 Speaker 1: you read the headlines and it doesn't quite give you 1188 01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:24,800 Speaker 1: that same perspective. Yeah, absolutely, And and that's Uh, that's 1189 01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:28,680 Speaker 1: Pinker's book. I'm gonna have you started asking me questions 1190 01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:30,840 Speaker 1: if I can keep going off on this, let me 1191 01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:33,680 Speaker 1: get back to my uh my list. So let's talk 1192 01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:38,120 Speaker 1: about what's changed since you've joined the realm of physics. 1193 01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:40,400 Speaker 1: What do you think are the most interesting changes that 1194 01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:43,400 Speaker 1: have taken place? Yeah, well, they're better or worse. Yeah, well, 1195 01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:46,320 Speaker 1: I'd say the big developments in physics, the thrilling ones 1196 01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:50,960 Speaker 1: are the discoveries of ideas that were put forward a 1197 01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:54,600 Speaker 1: hundred years ago or fifty years ago. The issues of 1198 01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:57,320 Speaker 1: the microwave, background, radiation heat left up from the Big 1199 01:06:57,320 --> 01:07:00,360 Speaker 1: Bang that now we can measure with such spectacular person decision, 1200 01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:03,240 Speaker 1: and what we see matches what the math says. That 1201 01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:06,240 Speaker 1: gives us confidence that we truly understand what was happening 1202 01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:10,600 Speaker 1: thirteen point eight billion years ago. That's utterly thrilling, you know. 1203 01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:13,760 Speaker 1: Discovery of the Higgs boson, that we now understand that 1204 01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:16,880 Speaker 1: there can be this feel permeating space and that's why 1205 01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:21,920 Speaker 1: other things have mass. We found the particle, these ideas, 1206 01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:23,400 Speaker 1: the god particle. I'm sort of not a great fan 1207 01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:25,440 Speaker 1: of that word, but yeah, that's what it's called. When 1208 01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:28,520 Speaker 1: I learned about this in graduate school in the nineteen eighties. 1209 01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:30,840 Speaker 1: It was taught to me in a way where I 1210 01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:33,600 Speaker 1: didn't even know that it hadn't yet been confirmed. It 1211 01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:36,200 Speaker 1: was spoken of as if this is how the world works. 1212 01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:39,560 Speaker 1: It was decades before I knew. Wait, we don't have 1213 01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:42,120 Speaker 1: that particle in our hands. Well, decades is an exaggeration. 1214 01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:46,160 Speaker 1: A few years and then twelve we find the particle, 1215 01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:49,520 Speaker 1: and then gravitational waves is the other big one. Right, 1216 01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:52,720 Speaker 1: None of us who are in the theoretical end of 1217 01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:55,080 Speaker 1: things really thought that they were going to detect these 1218 01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:58,560 Speaker 1: gravitational way ever, or just in a life I mean, look, 1219 01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:02,480 Speaker 1: you're looking at a wave that can strutch device by 1220 01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:06,600 Speaker 1: a fraction of an atomic diameter. How can you measure 1221 01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:10,440 Speaker 1: stretching by the fraction of an atomic diameter? And yet 1222 01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:16,439 Speaker 1: these guys pulled it all set up at tube and 1223 01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:18,360 Speaker 1: you have a mirror that refracts it in the other 1224 01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:23,120 Speaker 1: and you just measure the two waves theoretically, theoretically, that's 1225 01:08:23,240 --> 01:08:25,559 Speaker 1: come on, they could have figured that out years ago. 1226 01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:28,560 Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, But no, it is. It is stunning achievement. 1227 01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:31,840 Speaker 1: But but that we mentioned this earlier, we are living 1228 01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:36,640 Speaker 1: in a golden age of physics where things that theoretically 1229 01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:40,040 Speaker 1: have been described when you see hard proof like that. 1230 01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:42,479 Speaker 1: And and by the way, oh, we could trace this 1231 01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:47,840 Speaker 1: to two black holes that collided one three billion years. Okay, hey, 1232 01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:49,920 Speaker 1: we there's proof of that. And here it is in 1233 01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:55,000 Speaker 1: the shift in this in this measurement. That's an astonishing accomplishment. 1234 01:08:55,080 --> 01:09:01,080 Speaker 1: I don't know if people, people who aren't physics nerds appreciate, 1235 01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:04,840 Speaker 1: and there seems to be so. I subscribe to a 1236 01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:08,200 Speaker 1: bunch of different email lists because I I do a 1237 01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:10,160 Speaker 1: morning set of reads for everybody. Here are the ten 1238 01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:15,240 Speaker 1: most interesting things from markets, to psychology to whatever. And 1239 01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:18,360 Speaker 1: I'm on all these different lists, and the sort of 1240 01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:21,920 Speaker 1: stuff that comes from the physics side, it's it's not 1241 01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:24,600 Speaker 1: like every six months I get, uh, hey, here's this 1242 01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:28,280 Speaker 1: big announcement. It's every day there's two or three different things. 1243 01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:31,400 Speaker 1: And every week there's some hey, this is a pretty 1244 01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:33,800 Speaker 1: big deal. And it seems at least once or twice 1245 01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:38,040 Speaker 1: a month it's hey, this is groundbreaking stuff. It's a 1246 01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:41,320 Speaker 1: are you do You stop and say, I'm really glad 1247 01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:48,160 Speaker 1: that my lifespan incorporates this era of spectacular discovery. Absolutely absolutely, 1248 01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:51,360 Speaker 1: But you can't help us say to yourself, Wow, if 1249 01:09:51,400 --> 01:09:54,120 Speaker 1: only I've been born, like a few hundred years from now, 1250 01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:56,800 Speaker 1: I could read about all this exciting stuff and now 1251 01:09:56,920 --> 01:09:59,759 Speaker 1: it's gonna happen. Then no, then it's boring. It's done, 1252 01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:03,000 Speaker 1: I think, so stop and think about this is a 1253 01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:06,400 Speaker 1: fun little experiment. Think about the people who lived in 1254 01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:09,960 Speaker 1: the thirties, forties, fifties didn't make it to the eighties 1255 01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:13,559 Speaker 1: and nineties, and computers were these things that were the 1256 01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:16,600 Speaker 1: size of a room, and there was no concept of 1257 01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:19,439 Speaker 1: an internet other than, hey, we have a system set 1258 01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:22,320 Speaker 1: up that in case we are attacked with nukes, we 1259 01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:26,280 Speaker 1: could launch a response and and wipe out most of 1260 01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:29,360 Speaker 1: the planet. That was the concept of an internet. And 1261 01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:32,400 Speaker 1: we had phones with phone operators and the plugs and everything. 1262 01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:35,839 Speaker 1: Think about, and maybe this is me showing my age, 1263 01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:39,920 Speaker 1: but I've gotten to see some astonishing things just in 1264 01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:43,639 Speaker 1: the past fifty years. I think it might be boring 1265 01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:46,040 Speaker 1: to be born after everything is figured out. Yeah, I 1266 01:10:46,040 --> 01:10:47,920 Speaker 1: don't think so. I think it's only you to get 1267 01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:53,320 Speaker 1: more exciting and and the possibilities of of artificial intelligence, 1268 01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:58,040 Speaker 1: the possibilities of maybe simulated world, simulated realities, the possibilities 1269 01:10:58,040 --> 01:10:59,960 Speaker 1: to be go a little nutt a year of down 1270 01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:04,280 Speaker 1: learning your consciousness and too you know. Yeah, so who 1271 01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:06,519 Speaker 1: knows if any of that stuff holds any water. But 1272 01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:09,719 Speaker 1: I would love to be around to see. Huh sounds 1273 01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:14,040 Speaker 1: sounds intriguing. Um so those are the next major shifts. 1274 01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:16,760 Speaker 1: We don't know what's gonna gonna come out of them. 1275 01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:19,800 Speaker 1: This is another question that came from listeners. Tell us 1276 01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:22,720 Speaker 1: about a time you failed and what you learned from 1277 01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:26,760 Speaker 1: the experience. Oh gosh, the old failure question. That's a 1278 01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:31,000 Speaker 1: tough one always. But um I'll give you one example, 1279 01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:33,080 Speaker 1: you know, sort of a personal side of things. You know, 1280 01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:36,639 Speaker 1: my dad was a musician, composer, and because that life 1281 01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:38,559 Speaker 1: is so hard, he kind of pushed us kids away 1282 01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:41,440 Speaker 1: from music. He didn't want us to go in that direction. 1283 01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:44,040 Speaker 1: So when I was in college, finally I said, I 1284 01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:46,080 Speaker 1: want to play an instrument, you know, I want to 1285 01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:49,360 Speaker 1: play piano. So I started to do that. But what 1286 01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:53,519 Speaker 1: I've learned is that unless you are fully least me personally, 1287 01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:56,360 Speaker 1: fully focused on something, you don't get it done. So 1288 01:11:56,520 --> 01:11:58,960 Speaker 1: here I am thirty years later, and I'm still thinking 1289 01:11:58,960 --> 01:12:02,680 Speaker 1: to myself, I really want to play piano, and by 1290 01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:04,720 Speaker 1: hell or high water. I want before I leave this 1291 01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:08,120 Speaker 1: planet to have some level of proficiency. I've not gotten 1292 01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:09,800 Speaker 1: it yet. But the lesson I would say is for 1293 01:12:09,880 --> 01:12:12,600 Speaker 1: me personally, if I'm gonna do something, it has to 1294 01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:15,600 Speaker 1: be one commitment or it just doesn't happen. I have 1295 01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:18,559 Speaker 1: a friend who started taking Italian lessons and he said 1296 01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:21,080 Speaker 1: he thought it would take five years to really be proficient. 1297 01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:23,240 Speaker 1: And I said, gee, that's a long time, and he 1298 01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:25,240 Speaker 1: said the five years ago, and by whether I'm studying 1299 01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:28,600 Speaker 1: Italian or not, so maybe exactly right. Something to it? 1300 01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:30,160 Speaker 1: All right, my I know we only have the room 1301 01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:32,599 Speaker 1: for two couple more minutes. Let me get to my 1302 01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:36,040 Speaker 1: last two and most favorite questions. You work with a 1303 01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:39,240 Speaker 1: lot of millennials, young students. Someone comes to you and says, 1304 01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:42,599 Speaker 1: I'm interested in a career in theoretical physics. What sort 1305 01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:44,800 Speaker 1: of advice would you give them? Well, I tell them, 1306 01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:49,320 Speaker 1: number one, can you imagine doing anything else? Because I 1307 01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:51,360 Speaker 1: think to really succeed in this field, you've got to 1308 01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:54,120 Speaker 1: be one of the people saying no, no, My heart 1309 01:12:54,160 --> 01:12:56,920 Speaker 1: and soul is in physics, and that's what I've got 1310 01:12:56,960 --> 01:13:00,439 Speaker 1: to do. Because it's a hard field. Very few jobs 1311 01:13:00,439 --> 01:13:02,880 Speaker 1: you work like crazy you don't make a lot of money. 1312 01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:05,599 Speaker 1: You have to be doing it because it's got you 1313 01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:08,599 Speaker 1: by the d n A. And if that's the case, 1314 01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:10,760 Speaker 1: then I tell them, look, the next thing is, you've 1315 01:13:10,760 --> 01:13:13,880 Speaker 1: got to learn the basics inside out. Don't try to 1316 01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:16,599 Speaker 1: jump ahead and do string theory or general relativity because 1317 01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:19,519 Speaker 1: it's cool ideas that you maybe saw some television show 1318 01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:22,920 Speaker 1: mine or somebody else's. You've got to learn Newton Maxwell 1319 01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:25,920 Speaker 1: everybody inside out. And if at the end of that 1320 01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:29,040 Speaker 1: you still love the field, keep on going. And my 1321 01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:32,439 Speaker 1: final question that I ask all my guests, what is 1322 01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:36,160 Speaker 1: it that you know today about physics, string theory? What 1323 01:13:36,280 --> 01:13:38,400 Speaker 1: have you that you wish you knew when you were 1324 01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:41,280 Speaker 1: starting out five or so years ago. You can I 1325 01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:43,640 Speaker 1: give a real nuts and bolts to that question, not 1326 01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:47,200 Speaker 1: sort of from high end saying, well, you know, twenty 1327 01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:52,120 Speaker 1: five years ago numerical methods using computers was not really 1328 01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:56,080 Speaker 1: the centerpiece of doing physics, but so many issues today. 1329 01:13:56,200 --> 01:13:59,080 Speaker 1: If you're doing general relativity, if you're doing these really 1330 01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:02,479 Speaker 1: hard problems, you've got to be a cracker jack computer 1331 01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:05,719 Speaker 1: person to be able to push certain of these calculations forward. 1332 01:14:06,160 --> 01:14:08,320 Speaker 1: And I always left that to others I would do 1333 01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:10,439 Speaker 1: the equations and I'd leave it, say the students to 1334 01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:13,160 Speaker 1: program it to take it forward. I wish I was 1335 01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:16,640 Speaker 1: a cracker Jack programmer, because there's a certain kind of 1336 01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:19,519 Speaker 1: insight that I found myself, even on the rudimentary stuff 1337 01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:21,880 Speaker 1: that I've done. In the numerical world, you learn things 1338 01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:24,280 Speaker 1: better if you can take an idea, turn into a 1339 01:14:24,360 --> 01:14:27,240 Speaker 1: program and actually calculate something with it. In that way, 1340 01:14:27,479 --> 01:14:30,719 Speaker 1: you understand it better. So I'd tell all students get 1341 01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:34,120 Speaker 1: proficiency in numerical methods, even if you're going to be 1342 01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:37,800 Speaker 1: doing high end theory. It will serve you well. Quite fascinating. 1343 01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:41,559 Speaker 1: We have been speaking with Professor Brian Green, director of 1344 01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:46,519 Speaker 1: the Center for Theoretical Physics at Columbia University. Be sure 1345 01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:49,080 Speaker 1: and check out any of the other hundred and fifty 1346 01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:52,559 Speaker 1: or so such conversations we've had. You can find them 1347 01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:57,559 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg dot com, Apple iTunes, SoundCloud, or any of 1348 01:14:57,600 --> 01:15:01,160 Speaker 1: the other places where fine podcasts or hosted. I would 1349 01:15:01,160 --> 01:15:03,759 Speaker 1: be remiss if I did not thank my producer, Taylor 1350 01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:08,400 Speaker 1: Riggs or my director of research, Michael Batnick. We love 1351 01:15:08,439 --> 01:15:12,800 Speaker 1: your comments, feedback and suggestions right to us at m 1352 01:15:12,840 --> 01:15:16,960 Speaker 1: IB podcast at Bloomberg dot net. I'm Barry Ridholtz. You've 1353 01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:21,000 Speaker 1: been listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. Our 1354 01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:23,240 Speaker 1: world is always moving, so with Mery Lynch you can 1355 01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:26,360 Speaker 1: get access to financial guidance online, in person or through 1356 01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:28,639 Speaker 1: the app. Visit mL dot com and learn more about 1357 01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:31,120 Speaker 1: Meryll Lynch. An affiliated Bank of America, Mary Lynch makes 1358 01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:33,439 Speaker 1: available products and services offered by Merrill Lynch, Pierce feder 1359 01:15:33,439 --> 01:15:35,439 Speaker 1: and Smith Incorporated or Registered Broker Dealer remember s I 1360 01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:35,680 Speaker 1: PC