1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: This is Parent Data. I'm Emily Oster. 2 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 2: Hi Emily, it's me ask Bubby, doctor flow Rosen. 3 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 3: I know it's late, but you have a minute to talk. 4 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 3: I'd love it if you can call me back after 5 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 3: the break. 6 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 4: Thanks so much, Bye bye, Hello doctor Bobby. 7 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 3: Hello Emily Oster. 8 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,480 Speaker 5: It is an absolute delight to have you on Parent 9 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 5: Data podcast. You are our first grandparent guest, so thank 10 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 5: you for coming on. 11 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 2: Well, I'm absolutely thrilled to have that place of honor. 12 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 5: I'd love if you could just introduce yourself a little 13 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 5: bit and say more about your grandkids and more about 14 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 5: what you do. 15 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:13,559 Speaker 2: Well, really, how much time do we have because I well, 16 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 2: actually I am a retired pediatrician. I did pediatrics for 17 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 2: forty two years and retired two years ago, and I 18 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 2: thought I was going to go quietly off into the sunset. 19 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 2: But my daughter in law had an entirely different plan. 20 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 2: Once she had my first and only grandchild, and thanks 21 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 2: to her social media savvy asked Bubby was born, and 22 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 2: I really intended just to have like an advice column, 23 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 2: and she looked at me in total shock and horror and. 24 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 3: Said, that is so old school. 25 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: We're going on social media and the rest is kind 26 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 2: of history. 27 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 5: For people who don't know, why is it bubby? I mean, 28 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 5: I know who a bubby is? Where's bubby from? 29 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 2: Well, bubby is the Yiddish word for grandmother and Trent. 30 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: Trent is very fortunate because he has three grandmothers and 31 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 2: two grandfathers, and one of his other grandmothers was already 32 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 2: bubby to her other grandchildren, so of course I would 33 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 2: never ever want her to change that. And my mother 34 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 2: in law was Grammy, So I am Grammy to Trent, 35 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 2: but Bubby. 36 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:30,959 Speaker 1: To the masses, that's amazing. 37 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 5: Yes, it's a Managing the grandparents' names is always like 38 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 5: a challenge. We just went with Grandpa Arvin and Grandpa Ray. 39 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 5: But initially my husband was pushing very hard for my 40 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,519 Speaker 5: father to be called old Pa and if we're the 41 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 5: first grandchild, he would just bring that up all the time, 42 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 5: how about old Pa? 43 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,519 Speaker 1: How about old Pie? But eventually that was rejected. 44 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 2: Well, the way Grammy came about is that my older one, 45 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 2: who is Trent's father, was calling her various different things 46 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 2: and then finally came up with grag Ra, which she 47 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 2: and my mother in law absolutely did not want, and 48 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 2: so she kind of said, how about grammy and then 49 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 2: that was it and he took off and that's been 50 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 2: what It's bad. 51 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: Amazing. 52 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 5: And your social media I really would tell people you 53 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 5: are a great Instagram follow because you are very calming. 54 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 3: You are thank you. 55 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: You know, there is a lot of panic on Instagram. 56 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 5: There's a lot of parent panic and things that come 57 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 5: through that are like, here's what you're doing wrong, and 58 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 5: here's what and you're you're not really here's what you're 59 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 5: doing wrong? 60 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: Kind of grandma, No, I think that. 61 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 3: Really isn't me. 62 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 2: I truly believe in empowering both parents and grandparents to 63 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 2: kind of get the information they need, figure out what 64 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 2: works for them and trust their gut. 65 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and tell us about your grandkid. Your grandson. 66 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 3: Oh my god, Trent is absolutely the love of my life. 67 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 2: He is now thirteen months old and he is just 68 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 2: one of those incredibly engaging, funny kids and just to 69 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 2: be with him as an absolute delight. 70 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 3: I can't stop smiling and laughing the whole time. 71 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 5: So, Okay, I'm going to ask before we get into 72 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 5: what things do worry you? Because you're very calming. I 73 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 5: want to ask a very special question because one of 74 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 5: the things that people do raise with me is that 75 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 5: sometimes the mothers in law are kind of judgmental, and 76 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 5: you obviously have a very good relationship with your daughter 77 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 5: in law. And I'm curious if there are any grandparents 78 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 5: out there listening, what advice would you have for generating 79 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 5: a good relationship with your children and children in law? 80 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,359 Speaker 1: About grandparenting, Well, let me. 81 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,799 Speaker 2: Start by saying, I absolutely adore my daughter in law, 82 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,679 Speaker 2: and she and I get along and my son knows, 83 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 2: if God forbid, they ever split up. 84 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 3: I'm taking hurt. 85 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: You're going with some. 86 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 2: So I think the best thing that a grandparent can. 87 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 3: Do is not judge. 88 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 2: Because especially with the Internet these days, and most parents 89 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 2: now are getting their advice from the internet, I think 90 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 2: very few are establishing a relationship with their pediatrician like 91 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 2: I had with my children, because in this day of 92 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 2: urgent care and you know, rush visits and everything else, 93 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 2: I do think it's very different. So parents are turning 94 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: to the internet, and the Internet is terrifying. The stuff 95 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 2: that's out there is beyond scary. Some of it is 96 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 2: absolutely dead wrong. And no matter what you look up, 97 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 2: no matter what you do, no matter what you say, 98 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 2: somebody is telling you that you're doing it. 99 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 3: Wrong, yep. 100 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 2: And I think that parents are over whelmed. They have 101 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 2: far more information than I ever did, even as a 102 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 2: pediatrician raising my kids, and it's very hard to know 103 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 2: who to believe, who to trust, who's telling you something. 104 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 2: That really is how forum makes sense. So when it 105 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 2: comes to my daughter in law who runs the show, I. 106 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 3: Will absolutely give my advice. 107 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 2: I will maybe push a little bit if i'd like 108 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 2: to get them in another direction. But the truth is 109 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 2: they're the ones that are living with Trent, and they're 110 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 2: the ones that are in the trenches twenty four to seven. 111 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,359 Speaker 2: So I can make my suggestions, but I think you 112 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 2: really have to let parents figure it out for themselves. 113 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 2: And I don't mean to let them flounder, but to 114 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 2: let them figure out what works best for them. And 115 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 2: I think if a grandparent is constantly saying, well I 116 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 2: didn't do that, or that's not what we did in 117 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 2: my day, that's just adding another voice. That's, you know, 118 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 2: just putting more pressure on those parents. 119 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 1: I could not agree more. 120 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:08,359 Speaker 5: My mother's most sensible friend told her once, well, actually 121 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 5: I think it's my my father's sister who is was 122 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 5: incredibly sensible person told my mother, you can tell them 123 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 5: something once. It's fine to weigh in on a topic 124 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 5: one time, but don't keep weighing in on it. And 125 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 5: I think that's that's a piece that's I think that's 126 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 5: so true. 127 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: Okay. 128 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 5: So, on this series, which is called Late Night Panic Google, 129 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 5: we talk about what are people's late night panic Googles? 130 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: And first of all, do you do you google things? 131 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: Doctor Bubby? Are you a googler? 132 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 4: I do. 133 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 2: I want to see what everybody's reading. I want to 134 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 2: know what they're what they're seeing on the Internet and 135 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 2: whether or not it makes any sense whatsoever. 136 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: That's good, Okay. 137 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 5: So, but let me ask you the question a little 138 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 5: bit a little bit differently, which is what worries you? 139 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 5: What are the things that worry you about Trent about 140 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 5: parenting in general. 141 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 2: Those are two very different questions, po, so and let 142 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 2: me try tackling them. I think what worries me kind 143 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 2: of globally, aside from the fact that I think parents 144 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 2: are getting terrible information, I think those two things that 145 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 2: really stand out. One is the anti vax movement and 146 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 2: how much I think that has really hurt kids, and 147 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 2: that obviously can be ten million episodes all by itself, 148 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 2: and I kind of vowed after I did something on 149 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 2: vaccines and got this unbelievable backlash, I said, look, I'm 150 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 2: doing one more which was to say my piece on 151 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,719 Speaker 2: the RSV vaccine, and then I said, I'm going to 152 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 2: steer clear of vaccines because I didn't want my site 153 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 2: to become one where people were just fighting and arguing. 154 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 3: I want it to be a safe space. 155 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 2: So I am very worried about what people are reading 156 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 2: about it. 157 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 3: And kind of the. 158 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 2: Adjoining piece to that is the absolute rise in autism. 159 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 2: And I think it's really clear that some of that 160 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 2: is increased diagnosing, and we've changed the criterion. We're much 161 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 2: more aware, we're much more sensitive, and that's a wonderful 162 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 2: thing because the earlier you diagnose, the better the outcome, 163 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 2: the more you can treat. But I think the fact 164 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 2: that there has been such an incredible increase in autism 165 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 2: just feeds into parental fears understandably, and why they're so 166 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 2: nervous about doing anything that we kind of took for 167 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 2: granted in the past, because obviously something has changed. 168 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: That's interesting. 169 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 5: I hadn't connected those quite in that way, but I 170 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 5: think you're right that when people see something in the 171 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 5: data that we don't really understand. They're looking for an explanation, 172 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 5: and when then the Internet has offered this explanation, it's 173 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 5: easy to say, Okay, that must be the explanation. In 174 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 5: this case, that's led to an off a behavior not vaccinating, 175 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 5: which has its own very damaging potential impacts. 176 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: Absolutely so on the more personal level, like what. 177 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 5: Wakes you up in the middle of the night about 178 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 5: your own family, Well. 179 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 2: It's actually more what keeps me up, which is that 180 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 2: Trent isn't sleeping. I see, And that's one of those 181 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 2: very hard things because I know what should be done. 182 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 3: I have weighed in on it. I attempted to be gentle. 183 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 2: I probably violated the rule by weighing in more. 184 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: You mentioned it more than one time. 185 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, but Trench is absolutely not sleeping, and I think 186 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 2: it's not healthy for him, and it's certainly not healthy 187 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 2: for my son and daughter in law because they're absolutely exhausted. 188 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 2: So quite frankly, my daughter in law is going to 189 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 2: be going away on a business trip and I have 190 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 2: been tasked with a very very serious list of getting 191 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,319 Speaker 2: him to sleep, getting him to talk, and getting him 192 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 2: to walk. 193 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 3: So I'm supposed to accomplish that how long has it? 194 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 3: One year, ten days? 195 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 5: I feel of those, getting them to sleep is probably 196 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 5: the easiest one in the sense of I can imagine 197 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 5: how you could accomplish that, whereas getting someone to walk 198 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 5: it's a bit more challenging. 199 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 2: Although he's very close, he is definitely cruisy. He's going 200 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 2: to do it on his own, and if it happens 201 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 2: when I'm there, I will take credit for it, but 202 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 2: I really don't think I'll have anything to do with it. 203 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 5: Well, my kids didn't walk until like sixteen months, and 204 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 5: they were I. 205 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: Was total with the first one. 206 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 5: I was like, so stressed out on which my fifteen 207 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 5: month visits kids out walking, you know. My doctor was like, 208 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 5: it's fine, she's gonna we'll walk later, and then she 209 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 5: did like two weeks later. 210 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 2: Well, my first one walked, talked at six months, walked 211 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,559 Speaker 2: at nine months. My second one didn't walk until sixteen 212 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 2: months and didn't talk until he was three. 213 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 3: So I was very stressed. 214 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: Yes, I think that was. 215 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 5: I was glad I got this on the first one 216 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 5: because then when the second one didn't walk through sixteen months, 217 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 5: I was like, wow, that's just wow, that's just how 218 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 5: babies develop. 219 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:34,959 Speaker 3: Absolutely, in my house. 220 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: We're not into walking, but now they both walk right. 221 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 1: This is a delight. Thank you for being here. 222 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 3: I'm delighted to be here. 223 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:49,199 Speaker 1: Tell us exactly where to find you. 224 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 2: I'm on both Instagram and TikTok under ask Bubby bu 225 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 2: b b I E amazing. 226 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: All right, thank you, doctor Bobby. 227 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 3: My pleasure is really fun to be on 228 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 5: MHM.