1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:10,080
Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of iHeartRadio. Hello everyone,

2
00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:12,840
Speaker 1: and welcome to Too Much Information, the show that brings

3
00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,600
Speaker 1: you the secret histories and little load facts behind your

4
00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,120
Speaker 1: favorite music, movies, TV shows, and more. We are your

5
00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,720
Speaker 1: real estate novelists of real interesting minutia, your la la

6
00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:24,720
Speaker 1: la didi daals of details.

7
00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:26,520
Speaker 2: Our microphones smell.

8
00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,440
Speaker 1: Like a beer, and we're bringing you a story that

9
00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,280
Speaker 1: is both sad and sweet, and you better believe we

10
00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:32,240
Speaker 1: know it complete.

11
00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,279
Speaker 2: My name is Jordan run Tag. That was a new

12
00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,199
Speaker 2: You've said, a new You've said a new high, You've

13
00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,080
Speaker 2: raised the bar. My friend and I have Alec Sigel.

14
00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,839
Speaker 1: And today we're sharing a drink we call trivia, but

15
00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,760
Speaker 1: it's better than going down a Wikipedia rabbit hole alone.

16
00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,880
Speaker 2: I'm officially out of song references for this introduction.

17
00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,080
Speaker 1: Today we're discussing the signature hit for one of my

18
00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,920
Speaker 1: all time favorite musicians. We're talking about Piano Man by

19
00:00:58,040 --> 00:00:59,560
Speaker 1: mister William Martin.

20
00:00:59,720 --> 00:00:59,920
Speaker 2: Joe.

21
00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:03,480
Speaker 1: Now, I have lots of thoughts about Billy Joel, and

22
00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,560
Speaker 1: I will share at least seventy percent of them with

23
00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,720
Speaker 1: you over the course of this episode. I am endlessly

24
00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,920
Speaker 1: fascinated by him. First of all, I love the music.

25
00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,520
Speaker 1: I think he has a tremendous average of truly great songs.

26
00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,120
Speaker 1: I saw an amazing tweet a few weeks back that

27
00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,880
Speaker 1: I hold near and dear to my heart Billy Joel's

28
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,559
Speaker 1: evidence that many Americans think they love rock and roll,

29
00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:25,200
Speaker 1: but actually love show tunes.

30
00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:27,800
Speaker 2: I myself happen to love both.

31
00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,240
Speaker 1: More so, I'm fascinated by him because he's one of

32
00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:35,720
Speaker 1: the only musicians of his stature who just stopped. He

33
00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,880
Speaker 1: notched an astonishing thirty three top forty hits. That's an

34
00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,280
Speaker 1: awful lot. That's twice as many as Bruce Springsteen, The Eagles,

35
00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:44,520
Speaker 1: or Fleetwood Mac.

36
00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:46,160
Speaker 2: He sold over one hundred and.

37
00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,480
Speaker 1: Fifty million records, making him the fourth best selling solo

38
00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,880
Speaker 1: artist of all time, behind Garth Brooks, Elvis Presley, and

39
00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,640
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson. But he famously hasn't released an album of

40
00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:57,919
Speaker 1: new material, new.

41
00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,880
Speaker 2: Pop material, I should say, since the eighteen ninety.

42
00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:04,840
Speaker 1: Three smashed River of Dreams. For thirty years, he's basically

43
00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:08,760
Speaker 1: abandoned pop songwriting. So not only didn't he dilute his

44
00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:13,400
Speaker 1: discography with half baked late era releases like insert your

45
00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:17,440
Speaker 1: favorite boomer rock icon here, but he developed a semi

46
00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:22,519
Speaker 1: mythical reputation as this lost genius, and I will always

47
00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,639
Speaker 1: be intrigued by recluses, which I mean, he's not a recluse.

48
00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:27,800
Speaker 1: No one who sells that mass to Square Garden monthly

49
00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,840
Speaker 1: for ten years can take that title. But the abrupt

50
00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,799
Speaker 1: end of his one man hit parade adds this weird

51
00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,840
Speaker 1: sense of mystery and intrigue to a character who previously

52
00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,800
Speaker 1: wasn't very mysterious. I love when there's a hidden dark

53
00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,520
Speaker 1: side to something that's really sunny and frivolous.

54
00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,680
Speaker 2: You sure do. And the best part to me is

55
00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,480
Speaker 2: that he claims he's never stopped writing, So I just

56
00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,720
Speaker 2: picture him as hold up in his long Island Xanadu.

57
00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:57,400
Speaker 1: Writing irritatingly catchy symphonies for no one. He's become the JD.

58
00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:02,360
Speaker 1: Salinger of pop music until how that is. Earlier this year,

59
00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,960
Speaker 1: exactly half a century after Piano Man first entered the charts,

60
00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,080
Speaker 1: he released a new song called Turn the Lights Back On,

61
00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,320
Speaker 1: which is the closest thing there were an artistic comeback

62
00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,880
Speaker 1: we've seen in his three decades of self imposed creative exile.

63
00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:17,520
Speaker 1: Many fans hope this is a prelude to a new

64
00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:21,080
Speaker 1: album and I'm definitely one of them. I'm absolutely thrilled

65
00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,520
Speaker 1: by this development. To me, it's up there with Brian

66
00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:27,280
Speaker 1: Wilson finishing his Lost Smile project after thirty seven years.

67
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,840
Speaker 1: It's something I just never thought would happen. Hi, go,

68
00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:32,800
Speaker 1: I have to ask, do you care?

69
00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:38,520
Speaker 2: I don't care, but but you know, I am fascinated

70
00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,000
Speaker 2: by Billy Joel for the same reasons that you are. Like,

71
00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,560
Speaker 2: I think I can trace it all back to well,

72
00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:46,920
Speaker 2: other than hearing all of these songs ring up and

73
00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,760
Speaker 2: thinking that like Yanoman was one of the most profound

74
00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,520
Speaker 2: things that I'd ever heard. I mean, I was like

75
00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,640
Speaker 2: fourteen or thirteen, maybe it must have been younger actually,

76
00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,080
Speaker 2: But the thing is, he's always been so ubiquitous that

77
00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,600
Speaker 2: I've never really care to dive in further. Like, I

78
00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:03,800
Speaker 2: don't have any knowledge of his deep cuts or his

79
00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,920
Speaker 2: non hits except for Mimi twenty seventeen because that's not slap.

80
00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:12,200
Speaker 2: Yes it does. But I'm more fascinated by Billy Joel

81
00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:16,200
Speaker 2: the celebrity and musician and training wreck than I am

82
00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,279
Speaker 2: Billy Joel the works, and I think I can trace

83
00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,520
Speaker 2: it all back to one exact place, which is Chuck

84
00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,320
Speaker 2: Closterman writing about it. Yeah, that was the first time

85
00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,960
Speaker 2: where someone had really laid out the like the myth

86
00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,400
Speaker 2: of tension between yeah, or just the tension between being

87
00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,520
Speaker 2: like one of the all time saddest, most divorce men

88
00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:39,080
Speaker 2: in the world and just like you know, the piano man,

89
00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:45,800
Speaker 2: like he's that's it. It's a wonderful contradiction, contradictory existence

90
00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:50,839
Speaker 2: is is old Billy and that's what's fascinating to me.

91
00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,960
Speaker 2: And also Attila. Oh, yes, we will, we will talk

92
00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:54,640
Speaker 2: about Attila.

93
00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,159
Speaker 1: I'm really glad you mentioned the Chuck Clusterman piece because

94
00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,880
Speaker 1: to me, that was like, we'll talk about it later, but.

95
00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,160
Speaker 2: A sea change in his reputation.

96
00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,960
Speaker 1: I feel like that was the first time and he

97
00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,520
Speaker 1: would looked at the dark underbelly of Billy Joel. It's

98
00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,440
Speaker 1: like I was talking about earlier, that was the first

99
00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,760
Speaker 1: time that, like you said, people realize that there was

100
00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,839
Speaker 1: this this deep undercurrent of sad, and we like deep

101
00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:18,719
Speaker 1: undercurrents of sad on this show.

102
00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:19,560
Speaker 2: We sure do.

103
00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:23,880
Speaker 1: How do you write him as a as a musician

104
00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,520
Speaker 1: and a songwriter, because that is one thing that I belatedly.

105
00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,039
Speaker 2: Realized about Billy Joel, which was that a lot of

106
00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,960
Speaker 2: people hate Billy Joel. I don't hate him. I mean

107
00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:37,080
Speaker 2: his entire songwriting is Beethoven meets the Beatles, which is

108
00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,279
Speaker 2: not as lame as it sounds. I think because he

109
00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,479
Speaker 2: has that sort of pugnacious quality to him, just like

110
00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:48,839
Speaker 2: literally pugnacious as a pugilist, that he can sell something

111
00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,360
Speaker 2: like that, whereas like I don't really go for it

112
00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,560
Speaker 2: with other people. But yeah, man, he writes, he writes bangers.

113
00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:58,359
Speaker 2: It's Billy Joel. He's outsold the Eagles and Fleetwood back, Like,

114
00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:00,960
Speaker 2: what do you? What is my opinion matter?

115
00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:04,760
Speaker 1: I mean, to me, Billy will always be linked to

116
00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,880
Speaker 1: that other piano man, his British counterpart, Elton John, and

117
00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,280
Speaker 1: I used to co host another podcast where we compare

118
00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:12,719
Speaker 1: and contrasted.

119
00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,680
Speaker 2: The merits of these guys on one episode. And though

120
00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,880
Speaker 2: I love Elton John deeply and I play some on

121
00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:18,479
Speaker 2: my own.

122
00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,240
Speaker 1: Personal mount Rushmore of musicians, I gotta give Billy the edge,

123
00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:23,360
Speaker 1: if for.

124
00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,239
Speaker 2: No other reason that he does the music and lyrics right. Yeah.

125
00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,080
Speaker 2: I've never really found Elton's pawning off of lyrics to

126
00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,440
Speaker 2: someone else to really even be that Like, the lyrics

127
00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:39,000
Speaker 2: to me not particularly impressive it's like, sorry, Bernie, it

128
00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,640
Speaker 2: is Bernie, right, Bernie Toppen, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean

129
00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,200
Speaker 2: Bernie would like facts lyrics over to Elton and then

130
00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,039
Speaker 2: he would just stick him up on his piano bench.

131
00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:47,920
Speaker 2: Oh I've heard.

132
00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:48,240
Speaker 1: Yeah.

133
00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,839
Speaker 2: I mean it's something workman like about that that boves

134
00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,800
Speaker 2: me out. Well yeah yeah, I still don't care. And

135
00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,359
Speaker 2: if that's the case, they should be better lyrics, not

136
00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,080
Speaker 2: ones that make me think, Okay, that's fine, Like really,

137
00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,920
Speaker 2: you needed to farm that part out and that's what

138
00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:08,440
Speaker 2: you got. I just say, he's not like. I mean,

139
00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:13,240
Speaker 2: I've been on my own Billy Jolian depression has led

140
00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,600
Speaker 2: me down a David Berman rabbit hole recently. Oh wow. Yeah.

141
00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,360
Speaker 2: And I've been listening to the Silver Jews record American

142
00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,400
Speaker 2: Water and David Burman's last record is Purple Mountains, and

143
00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,800
Speaker 2: I'm like, those are clever lyrics like Warren Zyvonne has

144
00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,920
Speaker 2: clever lyrics to be to be a cliche, Ell, let's

145
00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:33,880
Speaker 2: cost el as clever lyrics like Bernie is just I

146
00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,320
Speaker 2: don't know, man, I maybe I'd not British enough. And

147
00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:38,120
Speaker 2: I guess I also have to give Billy Joel the

148
00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:44,440
Speaker 2: credit because he's American and I like the British, Yeah,

149
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:45,240
Speaker 2: I mean with Billy.

150
00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:46,920
Speaker 1: For me, you get the sense of him as this

151
00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,200
Speaker 1: tortured loaner pouring his heart out at the piano. And

152
00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,400
Speaker 1: that's obviously become such a cliche view of you know,

153
00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:57,080
Speaker 1: the artist, capital T, capital A, but it's it's a

154
00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,320
Speaker 1: powerful archetype. And to me with Billy Joel, well, there's

155
00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:04,160
Speaker 1: a vulnerability there which I find a little easier connect to.

156
00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,880
Speaker 1: And there's this touch of the romantic in him, since

157
00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,400
Speaker 1: he's just hopelessly ruled by his emotions. I mean yeah,

158
00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:13,679
Speaker 1: as he sings in one of his truly great songs,

159
00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:18,200
Speaker 1: Summer Highland Falls, it's either sadness or euphoria with Billy Joel.

160
00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,160
Speaker 1: And I'm probably overstating it, but I put him in

161
00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:27,800
Speaker 1: the continuum of American songwriters alongside Irving Berlin and the Gershwins.

162
00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd put him there. Oh, thank you, Wow. I

163
00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:35,360
Speaker 2: was expecting to fight. No. I you know, he's especially

164
00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,560
Speaker 2: since like as he puts it, part of his like

165
00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,439
Speaker 2: or as you put it, part of his like Hamburg period.

166
00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:45,320
Speaker 2: To bring everything back to the Dan Beatles was essentially

167
00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,480
Speaker 2: faking his way through jazz standards. Now at that time,

168
00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,680
Speaker 2: most of the modern jazz canon was still tin panlle stuff.

169
00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,520
Speaker 2: So he's a great piano player too, man, I don't

170
00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:58,680
Speaker 2: I know much less about that than you do. But

171
00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,160
Speaker 2: he's funny. He's always like, yeah, no, Elton can play

172
00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,319
Speaker 2: the pants off me. I got a weak left hands,

173
00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,640
Speaker 2: which actually, I mean, obviously he's an incredible pianist and

174
00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,240
Speaker 2: he's Bally Joel and he's classically trained. But if you

175
00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,240
Speaker 2: listen to him both back to back, I hear what

176
00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,960
Speaker 2: he means. Oh yeah, I've always preferred Elton's piano playing.

177
00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,160
Speaker 2: I don't know. This is interesting, don't they haven't They

178
00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,679
Speaker 2: like spent sniping each other and like finally buried the hatchet.

179
00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,240
Speaker 1: I don't know if they bury the hatchet. Maybe they

180
00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:27,920
Speaker 1: just shut up about it in the press or agreed

181
00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:29,240
Speaker 1: to stop going to the press. I mean it was

182
00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,040
Speaker 1: Elton worried about Billy's drinking really and felt that he

183
00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:35,240
Speaker 1: was going to if ever call.

184
00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:36,960
Speaker 2: The phrase was rehab light.

185
00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,559
Speaker 1: Nelton was like, yeah, when I went to rehab, they

186
00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:41,040
Speaker 1: didn't have TVs and I.

187
00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:45,800
Speaker 2: Was like scrubbing the floor with toothbrushes. Okay, that's some boomers, Like,

188
00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,400
Speaker 2: I don't know, man, I don't buy that. General. I'm

189
00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,720
Speaker 2: going to I'm going to drive down our iTunes rating

190
00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,240
Speaker 2: another half star for coming to the Boomers and saying

191
00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,199
Speaker 2: I don't like the British. But yeah, I mean, I

192
00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,320
Speaker 2: don't know, man, I don't buy Elton's that he was concerned.

193
00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,600
Speaker 2: I think Elton didn't want any competition. Oh maybe no.

194
00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,600
Speaker 1: But I mean, you know, Billy, he took feelings that

195
00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,720
Speaker 1: frequently left him confused and overwhelmed and made something beautiful

196
00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:12,280
Speaker 1: out of them.

197
00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,280
Speaker 2: And I think we should all be so lucky. Amen.

198
00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, And for many their first impression of Billy

199
00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,800
Speaker 1: Joel was piano man. The topic of today's episode. It's

200
00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:25,280
Speaker 1: a lightly fictionalized retelling of Billy's own experience as a

201
00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,559
Speaker 1: lounge singer at a Hollywood bar, and as we'll discuss,

202
00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,920
Speaker 1: Billy's career basically seemed over before it even got started,

203
00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,320
Speaker 1: and he felt just as trapped and dejected as the

204
00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,600
Speaker 1: barflies that surrounded him. The result was a compassionate look

205
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,840
Speaker 1: at those lost souls and a song that steeped in regret, unfulfillment,

206
00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,800
Speaker 1: and isolation. And yet it's been embraced in the last

207
00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,240
Speaker 1: fifty years as a source of solace to those who

208
00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,160
Speaker 1: hear it or join in at countless pub sing alongs.

209
00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,160
Speaker 1: It's an unspoken invitation to share your sorrows and commiserate

210
00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,280
Speaker 1: together at the end of the day.

211
00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,560
Speaker 2: It's not a song about depressed losers, but a reminder

212
00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,640
Speaker 2: that at one time or another, we're all depressed losers.

213
00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,440
Speaker 1: Piano Man is a song about connection and how that's

214
00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:10,680
Speaker 1: ultimately what gets you through.

215
00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,280
Speaker 2: Well from his early heavy metal band.

216
00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,720
Speaker 1: Seriously, we'll get to that. It's my favorite part of

217
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,960
Speaker 1: probably any episode we've done. To the recording staff who

218
00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,760
Speaker 1: that inadvertently led to the creation of this deathless Classic's

219
00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,280
Speaker 1: hidden heartbreak behind his greatest love songs, and all the

220
00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,920
Speaker 1: reasons why his signature tune was an unlikely hit. Here's

221
00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:42,640
Speaker 1: everything you didn't know about Billy, Joel and Piano Man. Well,

222
00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:44,559
Speaker 1: now for one of the greatest bait and switches in

223
00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,600
Speaker 1: TMI history. Before we talk about this beloved pub sing along,

224
00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:50,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to talk about.

225
00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:55,000
Speaker 2: Nazis Indiana Jones's voice. Can you do it? You gotta

226
00:11:55,000 --> 00:12:01,960
Speaker 2: do it? Nazis, I hate these guys. That's such a

227
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,800
Speaker 2: great life. Nazis, I hate these guys. Did did George Lucis.

228
00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:11,079
Speaker 2: It applies that somebody likes these guys well, yes, a,

229
00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,880
Speaker 2: but it also implies that like a certain familiarity with

230
00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,720
Speaker 2: the Nazis, like among all of the other guys that

231
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:22,040
Speaker 2: Indiana Jones has hung out with, the Nazis, do then

232
00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:23,360
Speaker 2: fall into the bad pilet.

233
00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:30,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, Billy Joel's father was born to a relatively wealthy

234
00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,320
Speaker 1: Jewish family in Nuremberg, and they ran a mail ordered

235
00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,880
Speaker 1: textile firm that's been loosely described as the German.

236
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:40,079
Speaker 2: Equivalent of Sears Roebuck. It's called the Carl Joel Linen

237
00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,880
Speaker 2: Goods Company, but no one needs to know that. But

238
00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:44,920
Speaker 2: I'm telling you anyway that just that just sounds like

239
00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:50,479
Speaker 2: an indie band nowadays. That's your new EP. Yeah.

240
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,160
Speaker 1: As the Nazis took hold, they persuaded, or forced, more appropriately,

241
00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,560
Speaker 1: the Joel family to sell the company to a non

242
00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:01,080
Speaker 1: jew for pennies on the dollar or mark I guess,

243
00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,560
Speaker 1: roughly one fifth of the company's actual value, and making

244
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,320
Speaker 1: matters worse. When they actually went to collect their money,

245
00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,480
Speaker 1: they were cryptically advised to focus on their family's safety,

246
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,320
Speaker 1: So after the family business was essentially stolen from them,

247
00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:19,240
Speaker 1: the Joel family pretty much saw the writing on the wall.

248
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,000
Speaker 1: This was nineteen thirty eight, one year before Hitler invaded

249
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,160
Speaker 1: poland then kicked off WW two, the Big One. This

250
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,280
Speaker 1: was also around the time that Hitler's propaganda leader Joseph

251
00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,520
Speaker 1: Gerbels was quoted as saying the jew is a waste product.

252
00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:38,200
Speaker 1: It's a clinical issue more than a social one. So

253
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,600
Speaker 1: Billy's father and his family did the smart thing and

254
00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,600
Speaker 1: fled the country. Fortunately, many of Billy's relatives were not

255
00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,240
Speaker 1: so lucky and were killed in concentration camps. Due to

256
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,760
Speaker 1: the deeply shameful quota system implemented by the US, the

257
00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,600
Speaker 1: Jewels were not permitted in the United States at first.

258
00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,080
Speaker 2: Instead, they settled in Cuba for several years.

259
00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,360
Speaker 1: During which point Billy's father, Helmut, attended the University of

260
00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:08,400
Speaker 1: Havana with Fidel Castro. I love that, right, go as

261
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,960
Speaker 1: we think they hung out they played baseball together?

262
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean maybe what was he studying at the

263
00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:24,800
Speaker 2: University of Havana poly Sai communications, interpretive dance, theater, miner

264
00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:28,360
Speaker 2: English English Lit.

265
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,840
Speaker 1: But eventually the Joel family finally emigrated to the United States,

266
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,320
Speaker 1: and this entire saga is the subject of an excellent documentary,

267
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,040
Speaker 1: The Joel Files, which features Billy and many of his

268
00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:47,080
Speaker 1: relatives learning about their past. So that's that's all heavy,

269
00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,960
Speaker 1: that's all very heavy style. Yeah yeah, and it only

270
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,240
Speaker 1: it only gets heavier. Billy's parents met at a City

271
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,160
Speaker 1: College of New York production of a Gilbert and Sullivan musical.

272
00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,160
Speaker 1: I've seen both Pirates of Penzance and The Micado Sided,

273
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,560
Speaker 1: but neither. It's a fitting starting point for the all

274
00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,440
Speaker 1: two brief bonds that would birth one child, Billy Joel.

275
00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,520
Speaker 1: Billy Joel was born on May ninth, nineteen forty nine,

276
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,560
Speaker 1: in the Bronx before his family decamped to the prefab

277
00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:18,640
Speaker 1: Levittown tracked houses of Hicksville, Long Island, which is on

278
00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:23,120
Speaker 1: the short list of the most stereotypical post war American existences.

279
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:27,320
Speaker 2: That edyone could possibly imagine. Also from Hicksville, Eddie Money

280
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,600
Speaker 2: and also Sterling Morrison with the Velvet Underground. They were

281
00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,360
Speaker 2: both born in Hicksville, as was You Had Somebody Too? Yes,

282
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:38,320
Speaker 2: Steely Dan guitarist Denny Diaz on some of their first records.

283
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:43,360
Speaker 2: He plays the ripping guitar solo on Bodhisatfa. Oh that's him. Yeah,

284
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,680
Speaker 2: how did you Did you just have that at already

285
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,040
Speaker 2: or did you go to the Higgsville Wikipedia page. No,

286
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:53,080
Speaker 2: I googled famous people from Hicksville, which that list runs dry?

287
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,600
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, it does, Yeah, pretty quick. Good Pool, Goodpool.

288
00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,440
Speaker 1: I told you that there was no stone Unturns, but

289
00:15:58,480 --> 00:15:59,040
Speaker 1: you found one.

290
00:15:59,120 --> 00:15:59,440
Speaker 2: Thank you.

291
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,200
Speaker 1: The Joels adopted Billy's older cousin, Judy, whose mother Billy's

292
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,040
Speaker 1: maternal aunt, has stuck her head in a gas oven

293
00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,000
Speaker 1: upon learning she had cancer for fear of being a

294
00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:16,120
Speaker 1: drain on the family. Depression and ruthless practicality was something

295
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,960
Speaker 1: of a theme in Billy's early life, and, in case

296
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,840
Speaker 1: it's not abundantly obvious, all was not well in the

297
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:26,160
Speaker 1: Joel household. Billy's father, Helmet, traveled a great deal for

298
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,040
Speaker 1: his day job at General Electric and was rarely around.

299
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,280
Speaker 1: He was never happy in the United States, where he

300
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:37,080
Speaker 1: considered people to be uneducated and materialistic. Settling in Levittown

301
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,760
Speaker 1: probably did little to dispel these notions, considering this was

302
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:44,200
Speaker 1: literally the inspiration for the song little Boxes, Little Boxes

303
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:49,000
Speaker 1: on the Hillside made a ticky tacky, ticky tacking. Billy

304
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,960
Speaker 1: remembers his dad as a dark presence around the house,

305
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,880
Speaker 1: a formative memory occurred when his father told him life

306
00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:01,920
Speaker 1: is a cesspool at age six. As Billy would recall,

307
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,520
Speaker 1: I didn't fully understand what he meant at the time.

308
00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,119
Speaker 1: Years later, it occurred to me that that was a

309
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,280
Speaker 1: pretty rough thing to say to a kid.

310
00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had an uncle one who told me, and

311
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,760
Speaker 2: this was I think from one of his favorite Italian movies,

312
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:17,920
Speaker 2: that he said life is like the latter to a

313
00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:26,760
Speaker 2: chicken coop shortened. That's great, that's good. I like that. Yeah. Yeah,

314
00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:28,320
Speaker 2: So Billy Joel's dad man.

315
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,840
Speaker 1: Despite all the effort that it had taken to get

316
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,320
Speaker 1: to the United States, he decided he didn't want to

317
00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,320
Speaker 1: be there anymore, so he divorced Billy's mom and left

318
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,320
Speaker 1: his young son and moved back to Europe in the

319
00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,679
Speaker 1: late fifties. He settled in Vienna, where he started a

320
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:48,399
Speaker 1: new family, a better family, a faster family, a stronger family. Billy,

321
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:50,680
Speaker 1: who was around eight years old at the time, would

322
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,760
Speaker 1: recall his mother, Rosalind, staring out the front window of

323
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,760
Speaker 1: the house at the end of the day when all

324
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,200
Speaker 1: the husbands in the neighborhood were coming back from work,

325
00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:00,680
Speaker 1: and when Billy would ask her what she was doing

326
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:02,600
Speaker 1: she'd reply, just looking.

327
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:08,679
Speaker 2: Maybe your father's coming home. He was eight. Good God,

328
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,679
Speaker 2: I just it sounds like his whole life was like

329
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:18,680
Speaker 2: a John Cheever short story, like alcoholism and suburban on Wei. Yeah,

330
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,680
Speaker 2: I can't believe he moved back to Long Island. Like

331
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,000
Speaker 2: with all the scratch that he had, he couldn't think

332
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:29,960
Speaker 2: of anything better than the hell he knew. Come on, dude,

333
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,040
Speaker 2: don't move back to the place that ruined your young life.

334
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,000
Speaker 2: He's doing it. It's Gatsby man. He's gonna do it over.

335
00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:39,800
Speaker 2: He's gonna do it over and get it right.

336
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,119
Speaker 1: As you would probably think, this all deeply affected young Billy,

337
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,040
Speaker 1: he would say. Without my own father around, I was

338
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,040
Speaker 1: constantly searching for my own identity.

339
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,160
Speaker 2: In some ways, this can free you up.

340
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,119
Speaker 1: You can be anything you want, But in other ways,

341
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:57,240
Speaker 1: you may not feel like you ever have a center.

342
00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,600
Speaker 1: And much like John Lennon, Billy wouldn't see his dad

343
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,399
Speaker 1: again until he was on the cusp of fame in

344
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,280
Speaker 1: his mid twenties. It was the early seventies when the

345
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,720
Speaker 1: promo department at his record label thought it would be

346
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,879
Speaker 1: a good idea to put them in touch. Thankfully, this

347
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,520
Speaker 1: reunion went better than John Lennon's did with his dad,

348
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,840
Speaker 1: and Billy and his father remained in contact for the

349
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,560
Speaker 1: rest of his life. In fact, going to visit him

350
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:20,720
Speaker 1: in Vienna led him to write the song of the

351
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,440
Speaker 1: same name, which is one of my favorite Billy Joel songs.

352
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,919
Speaker 1: Billy would later admit that had his father been present

353
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,560
Speaker 1: in his childhood, it's unlikely that he would have pursued.

354
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:30,200
Speaker 2: A career in music.

355
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,320
Speaker 1: It simply seemed far too impractical for his father to allow.

356
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,080
Speaker 1: This is ironic considering Billy's father, Helmet, was a classically

357
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:42,200
Speaker 1: trained pianist and Billy inherited his love of music. Actually

358
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,719
Speaker 1: runs very deep in the Joel family. Billy's younger half brother, Alex,

359
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,159
Speaker 1: would become a musical director for a major theater in

360
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,439
Speaker 1: Vienna for over a decade. Back when Billy's mother and

361
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,000
Speaker 1: father were still married, they obtained the piano for their

362
00:19:55,040 --> 00:20:00,479
Speaker 1: house in a unique way, Let's sing. At first, they

363
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,879
Speaker 1: believed they were going to have another baby after Billy,

364
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,080
Speaker 1: and this was not welcome news because they didn't have

365
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,119
Speaker 1: a lot of money, and when they learned that she

366
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,960
Speaker 1: was not pregnant after all, they decided to splurge on

367
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,840
Speaker 1: a cheap upright so that Helmet could play around the house,

368
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 1: which was a sound that Rosalind loved.

369
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,560
Speaker 2: This piano is your brother, Oh God.

370
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 1: After Helmet left the family, young Billy tortured his mother

371
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,680
Speaker 1: by playing what he would refer to as the storm song.

372
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,040
Speaker 1: This consisted of tinkling the keys of the top part

373
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,840
Speaker 1: of the piano at random to sound like rain, and

374
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,040
Speaker 1: then bang the low notes at the other end to

375
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,840
Speaker 1: simulate thunder. After God knows how many weeks of this,

376
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,320
Speaker 1: Billy's mom forced him to take piano lessons.

377
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,880
Speaker 2: This didn't make him especially popular in the neighborhood, since

378
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 2: playing piano wasn't viewed as especially masculine, especially considering the

379
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 2: piano teacher also taught ballet. Naturally, Billy den't with shouts

380
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 2: of Billy, where's your tutu from the local wise asses,

381
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,199
Speaker 2: as well as anti Semitic stuff like yo, Joel, you

382
00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 2: killed Jesus, I'm going to beat your ass, and inquiries

383
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 2: about the horns that Shirley must be growing on his

384
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 2: head in Long Island.

385
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,399
Speaker 1: And he believed it too, He said, he used to

386
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 1: like feel his head and he was certain and he

387
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 1: could feel like horn nubs when he was a little boy,

388
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 1: this poor boy Jesus Christ to warn off these bullies.

389
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,919
Speaker 1: Billy took up boxing, eventually competing in the amateur Golden

390
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 1: Gloves circuit. They ultimately won twenty two of his matches.

391
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 1: It's a pretty good average. His early boxing career ended

392
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,360
Speaker 1: when his opponent broke his nose. You can still kind

393
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,720
Speaker 1: of see it in his face. Thankfully, though, the skill

394
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,440
Speaker 1: allowed the pugnacious Billy to defend himself against physical bullies,

395
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,280
Speaker 1: though it would prove no match against the emotional and

396
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:50,160
Speaker 1: litigious bullies of the music industry, as we will see.

397
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 1: As Billy continued his piano lessons, he grew fond of

398
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,240
Speaker 1: the music of Beethoven. His mother, who worked hard to

399
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,919
Speaker 1: pay for his lessons, with one to hear pieces he learned,

400
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,920
Speaker 1: but unfortunately Billy would seldom practice, so instead he made

401
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 1: up pieces that sounded like Beethoven and also Mozart, and

402
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,240
Speaker 1: these were basically his compositional beginnings. He would later write

403
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 1: the fifty second Street song Rosalinda's Eyes in his mother's honor,

404
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,160
Speaker 1: supposedly as the song his father.

405
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 2: Should have written for his mother. The very thought of

406
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,919
Speaker 2: that makes me want to cry. I just love how

407
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,400
Speaker 2: much he invites this kind of pain into his life

408
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,199
Speaker 2: like it's admirable because it's like I guess, rather than

409
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 2: repressing it, which would have been the begner thing to do,

410
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,880
Speaker 2: he's like determined to excize it and write it literally

411
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 2: right the wrong by writing a song.

412
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 1: But if he was like me and just was like

413
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 1: whiny about it and such like an open festering wound

414
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 1: of a person, that would be intolerable.

415
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 2: But because he's like.

416
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,679
Speaker 1: A long island, like you know, he would describe himself

417
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 1: as looking like the kind of guy who makes pizza,

418
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 1: Like yeah, he's just like like he doesn't give off

419
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 1: an immediately apparent sense of like sorrow or any kind

420
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 1: of real emotional intelligence whatsoever. And that there's something about

421
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: sad men and I mean men, you know what I mean,

422
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 1: like like the toxic masculine male who is trying to

423
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,120
Speaker 1: grapple with his feelings and doesn't quite have the emotional

424
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 1: intelligence too, or I should have say, the emotional vocabulary too.

425
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: That's that's really touching to me. Maybe it's from just

426
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: like watching like, yeah, guys of that age, like try

427
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 1: that's true.

428
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 2: He truly has all of the elements necessary to become

429
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 2: like the worst guy from your hometown, like boxed a little,

430
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 2: went through a series of divorces, likes to drink and

431
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 2: drive like the only thing separating him from the worst

432
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 2: guy you know from your hometown is his enormous talent. No,

433
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 2: I mean, that's a great point. In subsequent interviews, Billy

434
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 2: would say that he was very shy until his teens.

435
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 2: That's when I realized I could make my piano talk

436
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 2: for me, he would write in a letter to a friend.

437
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 2: The piano spoke what I was feeling. His musical ambitions

438
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,120
Speaker 2: expanded after the Beatles broke through in early nineteen sixty four,

439
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 2: and like so many others of his milieu, his life

440
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 2: was changed after seeing them on the Ed Sullivan Show.

441
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,360
Speaker 2: He would later say that one performance changed my life.

442
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 2: Up to that moment, I never considered playing rock as

443
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 2: a career. And when I saw four guys who didn't

444
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 2: look like they'd come out of the Hollywood star mill,

445
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 2: who played their own songs and instruments, and especially because

446
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 2: you could see this look in John Lennon's face, and

447
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 2: he looked like he was always saying you, I said,

448
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 2: I know these guys. I could relate to these guys.

449
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 2: I am these guys. This is what I'm going to

450
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 2: do playing a rock band. He joined a band called

451
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 2: The Echoes while attending Hicksville High which may or may

452
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 2: not be known better as being the alma mater of

453
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 2: twenty twenty's powerpop group The Lemon Twigs.

454
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,360
Speaker 1: You know them, No, oh they're good. You wouldn't like them,

455
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 1: but I do. Shout out to my buddy Andrew Bank.

456
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 1: Good turn me on to them. Yeah.

457
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,439
Speaker 2: Joel always remembered the time when the band played at

458
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 2: the local church fair when his crush, an older girl

459
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 2: named Virginia Callahan, watched mouth agape from the front role.

460
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 2: She would later be immortalized as the Virginia in Only

461
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 2: the Good Die Young. It's worth noting how much of

462
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 2: the fact that music could be used to attract women

463
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 2: was a big part of its attraction to Billy. There's

464
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 2: supposedly a moment in the eighties at which he found

465
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 2: himself at a bar in Saint Barts playing piano and

466
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 2: being surrounded by supermodels Elle Macpherson and Christy Brinkley, both

467
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 2: of whom he would date and immortalize in the song

468
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:46,199
Speaker 2: Uptown Girl and a Young Whitney Houston, a point at

469
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 2: which he recalled saying a silent prayer to his childhood

470
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 2: piano tutor. His twin idols all through his adolescent were

471
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 2: Beethoven and the Beatles. As a teen, he worked late

472
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 2: nights as an organist in bands and bars. These late

473
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 2: nights cause him to a crucial English class, which prevented

474
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 2: him from getting a high school diploma upon his graduation

475
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty seven. Instead of attending summer school to

476
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 2: make up for the credits, he basically said screw it,

477
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 2: and his oft told reasoning was the hell with it.

478
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 2: If I'm not going to Columbia University, I'm going to

479
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 2: Columbia Records, and you don't need a high school diploma

480
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 2: over there. As we will see, he did indeed go

481
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 2: to Columbia Records and was subsequently given an honorary diploma

482
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 2: from Hicksville High in the nineties, Soon after hearing The

483
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 2: Beatles on Sullivan, Billy was invited to join a group

484
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 2: called the Echoes, who had just a great series of names.

485
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 2: They would later become the Emeralds and then later the

486
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 2: Lost Souls. That's good, it's good. It's funny because it's

487
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 2: kind of just imagine that bit in spinal A Mighty Wind, No,

488
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 2: a Mighty Wind when they taught Eugene Hudson's character is

489
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 2: getting more depressed, and his album titles, and they just

490
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 2: flashed his album RT. The last one is called Digging

491
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 2: My Own Grave. I'm just like the Echoes, the Emeralds,

492
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 2: the Last Souls, the Cadavers. Billy wrote his first song

493
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,199
Speaker 2: for the group, a pastiche of the British Invasion covers

494
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 2: that they'd play called Time and Time Again. It was

495
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 2: recorded as a demo and went unreleased until two thousand

496
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 2: and five box set called My Lives I Didn't do It.

497
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: It's terrible. One of his bandmates was a guy named Jim,

498
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 2: who Billy would immortalize on the Turnstiles track James. As

499
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 2: we see when we talk about piano man, Billy doesn't

500
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 2: change names often in his songs from the real people

501
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 2: he's basing them on. The Echoes were marginally successful on

502
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 2: the Long Island club circuit in the mid sixties Whatever

503
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 2: the Fat Means, and Billy supplemented his income playing on

504
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 2: sessions for Chubby Checker, best known for The Twist and

505
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 2: the iconic street tough girl group The Shangri Laws. It

506
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 2: does very much so. Billy played on a demo for

507
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 2: Leader of the Pack and possibly wound up playing on

508
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 2: Remember Parentheses walking in the Sand, which you may know

509
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 2: as being a great song later covered by Aerosmith and

510
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 2: then becoming a viral TikTok hit the sped up version

511
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 2: though right, it's like the Chipmunky version by Yeah. Billy

512
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 2: left the Echoes or whatever they were called by that

513
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 2: point to join his first semi pro group called the Hassles.

514
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 2: They were another Long Island group who were sign united artists,

515
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 2: not unlike Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels or the

516
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 2: Young Rascals. The Hassles are fairly famous among joel heads

517
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 2: since they have an extensive discography, at least for a

518
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 2: short lived prefame band of a future famous solo artist.

519
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 2: They released four singles and two albums, self titled Debut

520
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,239
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty seven and the awesomely titled Hour of

521
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 2: the Wolf in nineteen sixty nine, sessions for which Judy

522
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 2: Garland I'm now hearing was present for He's.

523
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: Like Forrest scump Man, He's got connections with all these

524
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: crazy people.

525
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Apparently she was a friend of the producer. All

526
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 2: of these musical offerings bombed. We only mention it because

527
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 2: of a the tragic comic jol of it all, and

528
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 2: to note that the Hassle's bass player, how we Arthur

529
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 2: Blovelt went on to co founder the band Ramjam, who

530
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 2: had a hit with Black Betty in nineteen seventy seven.

531
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 2: So there's your bar band trivia fact for the night

532
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 2: Billy Joel and the Black Betty guy were in a

533
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 2: band together. I like that. Billy would later say how

534
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 2: the lead singer of the Hassles became, in his words,

535
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 2: a Jesus freak, and wrote Joel an irate letter during

536
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 2: the controversy over the release of Only the Good Die Young,

537
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 2: which was banned in various markets for being supposedly anti Catholic.

538
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: As you meditate on that, we'll be right back with

539
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 2: more too much information after these messages. So this is

540
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 2: all but a preamble to Atilla, one of the most

541
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 2: cited and hilarious early pre fame bands of more famous guys.

542
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 2: Prior to becoming the Piano Man, Billy Joel created a

543
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: two man heavy metal project with an overly distorted organ

544
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 2: and drums and the name of that band was attila

545
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 2: my fetish for contextualize and would have to assume that

546
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 2: he heard like Vanilla fran Yeah, I was gonna say

547
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 2: Vanilla Fudge a Grand Bond organization. Oh and like and

548
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 2: I got the Vita Iron Butterflies. Yeah, deep purple, like

549
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 2: John Lord's stuff with deep purple, and when I can

550
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 2: also do that. And so in nineteen seventy, Billy Joel

551
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 2: teamed up with his Hassle's bandmate John Small for a

552
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 2: duo which was supposedly modeled after late sixties proto metal

553
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 2: bands like led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath. But yeah, it

554
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 2: sounds more like the kind of slug shrug just distorted

555
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 2: B three. Did Billy actually use a B three in

556
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 2: this or did he use something like a Lowry?

557
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: I think he used the Hammond organ that he like

558
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: cannibalized and yeah, yeah, well a lot.

559
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 2: Of those guys did that. I mean, basically, you could

560
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 2: swap out the the power tubes in them for guitar. Yeah,

561
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 2: amp guts to really overload them, which I think is

562
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 2: what John Lord did. Billy apparently used his power for

563
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 2: mimicry to fake a British accent and sneak into led

564
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 2: Zeppelin and Hendrix concerts by pretending to be a roadie,

565
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 2: which worked until he was literally booted from one concert

566
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 2: by a notorious British music industry heavy Don Arden, who

567
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 2: may be familiar to listeners of this show as Sharon

568
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 2: Osborne's dad, Billy and drummer John Small hold up in

569
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 2: the basement of John's parents wallpaper store to rig Billy's

570
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 2: Hammond organ up to a Marshall stack. It was, as

571
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 2: you describe it, an artistic abomination and a health hazard

572
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 2: since they got a ton of nasty shocks. Yeah. This,

573
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 2: you know. I have some friends with them Aunt modding

574
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 2: and everything, and one of the first things that everybody

575
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: does is change the two prong plug for a ground

576
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 2: like a three prong because particularly with Hammon's, because they're

577
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 2: an electro mechanical device, they would build up a charge

578
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 2: that was stored in them, and you could literally kill

579
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 2: yourself if you touched it. Yeah, because guys would chop

580
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 2: the they would chop the legs out so that they

581
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 2: could mount them on top of other keyboards or whatever.

582
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 2: And yeah, if you didn't know what you were doing,

583
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 2: you could, specifically with Hammin's, you could kill yourself because

584
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 2: they stored an electrical charge. And they used to call

585
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 2: those old two prong plugs that came with all of

586
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 2: them the widow Maker. So if you see, like if

587
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 2: you get into any of these guitar amp or Hammond

588
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 2: amp communities, they're like swapped out the original widow maker

589
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 2: for a three prong plug. But that's the only change.

590
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 2: Like it's really fascinating anyway. As Billy would later tell

591
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 2: biographer Fred Shrewers, I got a wall wall pedal so

592
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 2: I could wow WowWee you like Jimmy, and added a

593
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 2: distortion pedal, which I figured would double the mangled noise

594
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 2: we were already making. Then we just pinned the volume

595
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 2: to the wall, believing themselves to be, as you said, unstoppable.

596
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 2: Was that there, we said, unstoppable. They played the results

597
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 2: to their manager, who somehow managed to get them a

598
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars advance from Epic Records, despite privately believing

599
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 2: Attila to be the worst crap I ever heard in

600
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 2: my life. I think that that's like half a million

601
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 2: dollars today. Yeah, it's insane. I mean, god, dude, the

602
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 2: record industry was just so awesome for this generation of

603
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 2: people who would just fail and fail again until becoming

604
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 2: hugely ritulated at a scale, at a scale no other

605
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 2: musician would ever live since. As Billy would tell journalist

606
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 2: Dan Near in nineteen eighty five, we were going to

607
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 2: destroy the world with amplification. We had titles like Godzilla,

608
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 2: March of the Huns, Brain Invasion. A lot of people

609
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 2: think I just came out of the piano bar, which

610
00:34:37,800 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: he didn't. Seriously, I weren't go listen to it. Tila, Yeah, yeah, Anyway,

611
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 2: they named Vandatilla, with Joel saying, if you're going to

612
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 2: assault the rock world and crush it under ten Marshal Amps,

613
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 2: wouldn't Attila the hunt who plundered Italy and Gaul and

614
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 2: slaughtered quite a few innocents along the way, work as

615
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 2: a role model. Self titled album they released in July

616
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy has one of the greatest covers in rock history,

617
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 2: and I think everyone should just take some time to

618
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 2: google it. Billy and drummer John Small, whose whole name

619
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 2: must be read all the time, are dressed in what

620
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 2: appears to be Viking or just generic Barbarian fur outfits

621
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 2: while standing in a meat locker with slabs of meat

622
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 2: hanging everywhere. It is hilarious as is, but considering that

623
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 2: one of those men with the poodle perm and mustache

624
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 2: is Billy Joel, the comedic value of it is off

625
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 2: the charts. The whole venture, as you say, just endears

626
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 2: Billy to everyone more. Yet he does not share that view.

627
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 2: He deemed the project a colossal failure and later dismissed

628
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 2: it is psychedelic bullshit. It souped up amplification that they

629
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 2: worked so hard to achieve as a double edged sword

630
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 2: because it would literally drive the audience away at gigs.

631
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 2: In a twenty twelve interview with Alec Baldwin on NPR,

632
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 2: Joel said people went fleeing from wherever we'd play. We

633
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 2: were so loud you could see blood coming off of

634
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 2: people's ears. It was just horrible. Thank god it didn't happen,

635
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,760
Speaker 2: because I would have screamed myself right out of the business.

636
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 2: What did they do with the fifty grand? Anyway? The

637
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 2: band Attilla died in an extremely dramatic fashion when Billy

638
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 2: began having an affair with his bandmate, drummer John Small's wife,

639
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Weber. Considering it was a two person band, and

640
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 2: they lived in the same apartment building. This made things awkward.

641
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 2: Drummer John Small discovered the affair in between back to

642
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 2: back gigs for Attila. So they were when you say

643
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 2: back to back gigs, were they playing two nights or

644
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 2: were they playing two sets? Two sets of Yeah, that's

645
00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 2: very different. Sadly, Billy was under the impression that John

646
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 2: and Elizabeth's marriage was all but over, and she had

647
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 2: already told John that she had been sleeping with Billy.

648
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 2: Both of those things were not true, and Billy was

649
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 2: hit with a tidal wave of guilt. Billy left their

650
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 2: shared apartment building and spent a period of time homeless,

651
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 2: sleeping in laundromats, cars, subways, and what you just described

652
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 2: as the woods. He also described it as the woods

653
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 2: like the park. I don't just say full on Long

654
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 2: Island woods. I don't know. We'll find out more. If

655
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,439
Speaker 2: you were a loved one was homeless with Billy Joel

656
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 2: during the period in the early nineteen seventies, please get

657
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 2: in touch with us. Joel subsequently solved this by moving

658
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 2: home with his mother, which was the ultimate indignity. At

659
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 2: the age of twenty one, Racked with guilt, he called

660
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 2: his now ex bandmate drummer John Small to apologize. Small

661
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 2: came over to talk to Billy in person, only to

662
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 2: find him passed out on the floor after having taken

663
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 2: an over dose of sleeping pills. Billy was rushed to

664
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 2: the er, where his stomach was pumped, and he famously

665
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 2: recalled waking up in the hospital and thinking, oh great,

666
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 2: I couldn't even do this right. He tried to write

667
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 2: that wrong once again in a few weeks, when he

668
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 2: drank a bottle of old English scratch cover, which he

669
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 2: said he chose in another all time sound bite because

670
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 2: it looked quote tastier than bleach. As he would later say,

671
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 2: I remember sitting in a chair waiting to die. I thought,

672
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 2: I'll sit in this chair and I'll die here. I

673
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 2: ended up sitting there polishing my mother's furniture by farting

674
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 2: a lot. He survived the incident and checked himself into

675
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 2: his psychiatric hospital for three weeks. Thankfully, Billy got the

676
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 2: help that he needed, and almost two decades later, he'd

677
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 2: released a song called You're Only Human Parentheses Second Wind,

678
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 2: which he wrote in an admirable effort to dissuade teenage suicides.

679
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 2: The truly bizarre video inspired by the Frank Capra Christmas

680
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 2: classic It's a Wonderful Life, features Joel as a mysterious,

681
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 2: trench coated fallen angel figure who convinces I Love sixteen

682
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 2: to back away from the edge of the Queensboro question

683
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,839
Speaker 2: Mark Bridge after his girlfriend breaks up with him. How

684
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 2: do you feel about that?

685
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I love the whole trope of like kind

686
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: of like crusty, grumpy, rumpled angel.

687
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 2: Coming out of the work to like save someone. Call

688
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 2: that the Wings of Desire effect.

689
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,439
Speaker 1: I was gonna call that the John Travolta movie Michael effect, but.

690
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 2: I love how much you hate that movie. Yeah, because again,

691
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 2: go everyone wim Wenders. Go watch wim Wenders Wings of

692
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 2: Desires much better than Michael or the American version of

693
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 2: the movie City of Angels, which at least gave us

694
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 2: in the case Googoo Doll's deathless hit iris.

695
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 1: I can't listen to that song because I accidentally plagiarized

696
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 1: it for a love note that I wrote a girl

697
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: in ninth grade.

698
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 2: It's a very botherous It's one of the most Jordan

699
00:39:56,160 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 2: things you could have said about that. Weirdly's co host

700
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 2: Adam Savage was in the video for Your Only Human

701
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 2: Parentheses Second Wind. So this all relates to today's episode

702
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 2: because Joel's omniscient Hobo angel character haralds his arrival by

703
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 2: playing the harmonica part to Yano Man. So back to

704
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy all this mess ended about as well as

705
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 2: it could have. Joel sought help for his depression and

706
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 2: lived to you say today Check's notes today wonderful. If

707
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 2: he dies tomorrow, this will be so weird. He married

708
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Webber, the woman at the center of the Attila

709
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 2: love triangle, later writing songs like She's always a woman

710
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 2: to me and just the way you are for her,

711
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 2: always a woman as compared to what well.

712
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 1: Also, she was also his manager, so maybe that was

713
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: what he meant. She's always a manager to me, doesn't

714
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: I'm quite the same that.

715
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 2: Doesn't talk about her Sometimes a woman, sometimes a manager.

716
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 2: They would later divorced. Yeah, yeah, we'll touch on that later.

717
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 2: Billy did remain friends with his Attila bandmate, drummer John Small,

718
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,760
Speaker 2: who would go on to become a music video director,

719
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 2: overseeing the video for Uptown Girl co starring Billy's second wife,

720
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 2: Christy Brinkley. It's a tangled web. Billy Joel has woven

721
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 2: Billy's tortured relationships with women in unrelenting reputation as a

722
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 2: romantic sap bolstered in every interview and fact about his

723
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 2: life is one of the things that induces him to

724
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 2: I think both of us. He tells the story of

725
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 2: his high school girlfriend wanting to break up before she

726
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 2: went up to college. Joel was devastated and said, well,

727
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 2: you mean a lot to me, Patty, after all we

728
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 2: had sex. Her response was so what. He then doubled

729
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 2: down on that by asking her to marry him. She

730
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 2: said no. Still, they remained friends to this day. At

731
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 2: some point during the two thousands, they had lunch and

732
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 2: Billy Joel told her about one of his new girlfriends.

733
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 2: The woman responded, she may have your heart, but I

734
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 2: have your soul, A truly insane thing to say, and

735
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 2: even more baffling or insane that Joel responded by asking

736
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 2: for a pen to write that line down. Good God,

737
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 2: just good God.

738
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,439
Speaker 1: Another positive outcome of the Attila implosion is that Billy

739
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: Joel abandoned his truly terrible sonic experiments in amplification.

740
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 2: I decided I.

741
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: No longer wanted to be a rock and roll star.

742
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 1: He'd say, I got that out of my system. I

743
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: was about nineteen or twenty. I wanted to write songs now.

744
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,320
Speaker 1: As nineteen seventy turned in nineteen seventy one, he decided

745
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,879
Speaker 1: that he wanted out of the spotlight entirely and sought

746
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: to become purely a songwriter. But the advice he was getting,

747
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 1: according to him, was that the best way to get

748
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 1: your songs out there was to record them yourself and

749
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 1: release an album. Considering this was the dawn of the

750
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: so called singer songwriter era, this seemed like a very

751
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 1: good idea. Indeed, I honestly can't tell how much this

752
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: explanation is just a croc so that Billy doesn't look

753
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: quite so much like a craven genre hopper, going from

754
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: what from British Invasion to late sixties psye rock to

755
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,280
Speaker 1: now singer songwriter stuff.

756
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'll choose to believe him. I mean,

757
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 2: he took a lot of swings, yeah, bat yes, and

758
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 2: finally hit it out of the park big swings.

759
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: You could not take a bigger swing than Attila. Honestly,

760
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:37,720
Speaker 1: so began the solo career of Billy Joel and adding

761
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 1: to his Forest Gump like reputation, Billy was given a

762
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: cash advance by Michael Lang, the key organizer of Woodstock.

763
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: Billy claims he briefly attended Woodstock.

764
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 2: But quickly left.

765
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: I went up for one day, realized I didn't really

766
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: care for mud rain or acid, and hitchhiked back home.

767
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: This meant that, to his imns regret, he missed Jimmy

768
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 1: Hendricks's legend very performance at the National Anthem. Billy Joe

769
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 1: on acid a discussion point.

770
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 2: I think he.

771
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: I think I read that he took acid three times,

772
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 1: all in the early seventies, and one time he freaked

773
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: out and put on James Taylor's album and remembers just

774
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: constantly just just calling out to the heavens.

775
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 2: Save me, James, save me. What a fascinating man. I

776
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 2: love this man. I can see how someone with Billy's

777
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:35,959
Speaker 2: back story would not baggage. It was an experience on acid, yep.

778
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: Anyhow, Michael Lang, the Woodsuck organizer, signed Billy and passed.

779
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 2: Them along to his colleague Already Rip.

780
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:48,240
Speaker 1: Remember that name sounds like a Paul Schaeffer in Spinal

781
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 1: Tap character.

782
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 2: Already Rip it does.

783
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: Already was a co founder of a small label called

784
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: Family Productions, interesting label title in.

785
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,839
Speaker 2: The era of Charles Manson and his Family.

786
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 1: Artie had actually worked with Billy Joel way back when

787
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: he was doing sessions for the Shangri Las earlier in

788
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: the mid sixties, which is interesting. He signed twenty two

789
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,919
Speaker 1: year old Billy Joel to a contract that history would

790
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 1: later take a rather dim view of.

791
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 2: It was a classic music industry screw.

792
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 1: But at the time Billy was happy and started writing

793
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: material for the album that would become his solo debut,

794
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 1: Cold Spring Harbor.

795
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 2: Do you know this album? No, it's really good.

796
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 1: It's given short shrift by many fans, and it's also

797
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 1: disowned by Billy himself for a reason.

798
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,839
Speaker 2: To assume I'm a fan, Oh okay, I mean, I'm

799
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,839
Speaker 2: just I'm not, like I said, I've never I know

800
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 2: the songs I've been listening to all my damn life, Like,

801
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 2: I'm not going to go looking for rare b sides,

802
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 2: especially one that he says he hates.

803
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 1: Well okay, well, well we'll talk about why he hates it.

804
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 1: But the songs on the album are really great. She's

805
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 1: Got Away It is incredible song. Everybody Loves You Now

806
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: is an incredible song. Got to Begin Again is a

807
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: really great song. My personal favorite is Tomorrow Is Today,

808
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 1: which has lyrics that are believed to have been taken

809
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: from one of his suicide notes. And even if that's

810
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: not true, the sentiment certainly comes from that period and

811
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,320
Speaker 1: it's an extremely powerful piece of music.

812
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 2: Definitely check that song out. I mean, just the phrase

813
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 2: tomorrow is today. What it sounds like a sounds like

814
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 2: a discarded James Bond title. Tomorrow ever Dies Wow, Tomorrow

815
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 2: is not enough, Tomorrow is Today? Now go back to

816
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:44,959
Speaker 2: tomorrow and ever Dies Wow. Nice, nicely done. Billy Joel

817
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:46,720
Speaker 2: high hopes for Cold Spring Harbor.

818
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: He recorded in LA with some of the best studio

819
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 1: session players in town, and shortly before it was due

820
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,720
Speaker 1: to be released in late nineteen seventy one, according to legend,

821
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: at least, he held a listening party at his home

822
00:46:58,080 --> 00:46:58,760
Speaker 1: with some friends.

823
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 2: How was his advance for this one that I don't

824
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 2: know that on seventy grand seventy five grand?

825
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: Well go easy on him, because he placed the acetate

826
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 1: on the turntable with all of his friends in the room,

827
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 1: he dropped the needle so excited to showcase this music.

828
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 1: I mean you know, one of these songs came from

829
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: a suicide note. For Christ's sake, this was deep, personal,

830
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 1: meaningful music. He dropped the needle on the acetate and

831
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 1: he heard what he would later describe as the voice

832
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:29,319
Speaker 1: of a chipmunk coming out of the speakers. There had

833
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 1: been an error in the mastering which had the unintended

834
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,359
Speaker 1: side effect of speeding up the tapes, causing everything on

835
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 1: the record to sound higher pitched. The thirty four minutes

836
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 1: of music they had recorded had been sped up to

837
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 1: twenty nine minutes on the pressing, and it sped up

838
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:50,800
Speaker 1: the songs by a semi tone, which admittedly isn't a ton.

839
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 2: You said it was a half tone, a half a

840
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 2: semi tone earlier. Oh, it's a semitone. Then I misspoke, Okay,

841
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 2: I know, I mean this been like all the time,

842
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 2: That's what I Oh. Yeah, famously it was one of

843
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 2: them was kind of blue. What Yeah, musicians would have

844
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 2: to you would have to detune your own instrument to

845
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:14,879
Speaker 2: be able to play along with kind of blue on

846
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 2: certain test pressings. WHOA yeah, I mean, huh, yeah, I

847
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,720
Speaker 2: don't know. I I'm just going down where I always

848
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 2: go to find out about the Steve Hoffman forums. This

849
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 2: is the guy here claiming most, if not all, of

850
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 2: Fats Domino's Imperial singles were sped up. Whoa Jerry Rafferty,

851
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:40,840
Speaker 2: The forty five of Baker Street was sped up. Damn

852
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 2: time has come today by Chamber Brothers more than a

853
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 2: feeling by Boston versus some of that are slowed down.

854
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 2: Tiers of a Clown was supposedly slowed down for their

855
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 2: forty five version Ramblin' Man. I guess it had to

856
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 2: do with radio pushes, because they would they wanted to

857
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 2: make songs feel more excited, so they would basically speed

858
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 2: them up from the album version of the version that

859
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 2: was actually recorded.

860
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: Well exciting, or they wanted to squeeze in more ads,

861
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 1: which is the I heard.

862
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 2: Baker's Banquet was supposedly even mastered and released at the

863
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 2: wrong speed or too slow. Real of Stone stuff. Yeah,

864
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 2: So all of what I'm saying is to say, shut up, really.

865
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 1: Well, well, I just want to Brian Wilson did this

866
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 1: intentionally sped up his vocals by a semitone on the

867
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 1: Beach Boys pet sound song Caroline No to Sound Younger,

868
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 1: and that Paul McCartney did the same thing the following year,

869
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty seven on When I'm sixty four, to

870
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: also make himself sound younger.

871
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 2: But Billy wasn't.

872
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 1: Trying to sound younger. If anything, He's probably he was

873
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: twenty two. He's probably trying to sound more mature and

874
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 1: have more gravitas to his voice, and he was not

875
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: happy at having his voice sped up and sounding higher.

876
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 1: And according to legend, he was so furious that he

877
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 1: ripped the record off the turntable and either threw it

878
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 1: against the wall or, depending on the version of the

879
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 1: story being told, literally ran out of the house and

880
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 1: hurled it into the street Frisbee style, which is the

881
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 1: version I prefer, kind of like the Walter White breaking

882
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: bad throw the pizza and landed up on the roof.

883
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 2: You know, either way, no good. So I was just

884
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 2: reading down on this forward and I think what happens

885
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 2: is people have talked about some of the problem with

886
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 2: these is that the speed at which the was recorded

887
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 2: was not always dictated to the mastering engineer, like the

888
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 2: mixing engineer in some cases didn't say what speed it

889
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 2: was recorded the tape tape speed, so the mastering engineer

890
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,320
Speaker 2: has to kind of just shoot for what could be

891
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 2: an educated guess. I don't know. I find that stuff

892
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 2: really interesting. Well, Billy didn't. Billy Joel disagreed.

893
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was very depressed because it had been a

894
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,280
Speaker 1: nightmare making this record, with this guy already rip acting

895
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: as producer, demanding take after take to the point where

896
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 1: Billy had no idea how to sing his own songs anymore,

897
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:03,439
Speaker 1: and he was hoping that all this hard work would

898
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 1: yield a great sounding record, but alas this was not

899
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,799
Speaker 1: the case. It was so depressing he'd later say, I

900
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 1: wanted to crawl into my piano and close the lid.

901
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 2: It would get worse.

902
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 1: This label, Family Productions, was hemorrhaging money and couldn't afford

903
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 1: to fix the mastering error. So, partially due to this

904
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 1: wonky sound, and partially due to general label mismanagement and

905
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 1: poor distribution, Billy's album Cold Spring Harbor was a commercial failure. Apparently,

906
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 1: the president of the company that was in charge of

907
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 1: distribution was dealing with the deteriorating condition of his cancer

908
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: stricken son and effectively, though understandably, left the company rudderless

909
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 1: as he was grappling with his grief, Lacking proper distribution

910
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 1: and promotion. The only thing Billy could do was hit

911
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 1: the road and tour in hopes of generating excitement for

912
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: the record. He and his band played colleges opening for

913
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: the likes of the Jay Giles band, Bad Finger and Yes.

914
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 1: But by Billy's account, this was not fun. We didn't

915
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 1: make any money. Nobody got paid.

916
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 2: He said.

917
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 1: We were toying around to one of these little camper

918
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 1: trailer things, eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.

919
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 2: Bitch, bitch, bitch. Good lord, you got to open for

920
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,879
Speaker 2: a Yes like. He was a big Yes fan too.

921
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:19,799
Speaker 2: He was excited about that. Dude. You got to watch

922
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 2: Wakeman play keys every night, like God, damn fry baby,

923
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 2: this generation man, fifty thousand dollars in nineteen seventy is

924
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:31,720
Speaker 2: an advance. That's exciting.

925
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: Now.

926
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's insane now, Yeah, nobody gets fifty grand to

927
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 2: make a record with your your second your first record,

928
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 2: Attila was no Hassles and then Attila. Jesus, I don't know, man, bitch, bitch,

929
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 2: bitch the Billy Joel story, I must. I have to

930
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 2: say that I do like him. I am just you know,

931
00:52:54,440 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 2: he's a complainer, so am I but I never got

932
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 2: fifty grand to make a record or toured with Yes.

933
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 1: But this tour also featured a performance at the Mari

934
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:13,319
Speaker 1: Soul Festival in Puerto Rico, which is widely hailed as

935
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 1: the first international pop music festival on the island, as

936
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,839
Speaker 1: well as what's been argued the first truly important show

937
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 1: of Billy Joel's career. Though few in the crowd of

938
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 1: ten thousand people knew who he was, there were some

939
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 1: label reps there who were impressed with his performance, which

940
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 1: would pay off later. And he also got to meet

941
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:35,760
Speaker 1: Dave Brubeck. That's cool, right, We love Dave Brubeck, adding

942
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:40,720
Speaker 1: to his Forrest Gump chart. But all in all, Billy

943
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 1: was not happy being an artist on Arti Ripp's Family

944
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:47,760
Speaker 1: Productions label. Already had been the producer of Cold Spring Harbor,

945
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 1: so the sound screw up could be laid at his feet.

946
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 2: The record wasn't distributed and got zero.

947
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:56,360
Speaker 1: Airplay, and now Billy's monthly stipend had evaporated due to

948
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:57,879
Speaker 1: the label's money problems.

949
00:53:58,360 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 2: He wanted off the label.

950
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 1: But unfortunately he'd signed one of those nightmarish early rock

951
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 1: and roll contracts that tied him up for the rest

952
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 1: of his natural life. He'd signed away his publishing rights,

953
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 1: licensing rights, copyrights, mechanical rights, everything forever.

954
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 2: The irassable Artie Rip would later.

955
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 1: Say, there ain't no hole in that contract other than

956
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 1: the loose leaf binder hole. That's the only hole in it.

957
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: He is more or less a real life cigar chopping executive.

958
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 1: Billy would describe him as quote gangstery on the other

959
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:34,759
Speaker 1: side of the desk in his office, made guests sit

960
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:38,239
Speaker 1: in a chair shaped like a hand. You were literally

961
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 1: in the palm of this guy's hands in his office.

962
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 2: Love that. So.

963
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 1: Unable to extricate himself from this contract, Billy did the

964
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 1: next best thing.

965
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 2: He skipped town. He relocated to la.

966
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 1: With his girlfriend soon to be wife, Elizabeth Weber, and

967
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 1: her young son, at the end of nineteen seventy two,

968
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:59,320
Speaker 1: heading clear across the country in a Datson station wagon.

969
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 1: This was a partially practical matter, since they could no

970
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 1: longer afford the homemade shared an oyster bay along Island

971
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 1: now that the money had dried up. But Billy would

972
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 1: also characterize this period as quote hiding out while he

973
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,360
Speaker 1: tried to find a way out of his miserable, exploitive record.

974
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 2: Contract.

975
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:19,439
Speaker 1: My hope was that by going underground, already would lose

976
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: track of me and be persuaded sometime in the future

977
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 1: to let me out of this onerous deal I'd made.

978
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 1: Bizarrely for an artist so strongly identified with New York,

979
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 1: Billy Joel would spend three years out in LA. He

980
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:36,439
Speaker 1: would eventually write The Ronettes pastiche Sagabye to Hollywood. Upon

981
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 1: his departure in nineteen seventy five, things started off on

982
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 1: a weird footing in LA because Billy had assumed that

983
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 1: his girlfriend Elizabeth, had cleared it with her former husband,

984
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:50,879
Speaker 1: Billy's former Attila bandmate John Small, to.

985
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 2: Take their five year old son across the country from

986
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 2: New York to LA to live.

987
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 1: She did not much in the same way that she

988
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 1: didn't tell drummer John Small that she and Billy were

989
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:02,800
Speaker 1: having an affair.

990
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 2: Communication.

991
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 1: I guess they were on a divorce at this point,

992
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 1: but communication not good between these two.

993
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 2: Poor John. Astonishing to me that she was like, Yeah,

994
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna I'll just take the kid. Just no, okay,

995
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 2: do you didn't think that you didn't foresee that being

996
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 2: a problem. There's the seventies, probably like he doesn't want them.

997
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,759
Speaker 1: Poor drummer John Small showed up in Los Angeles one day,

998
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:32,280
Speaker 1: shortly after Billy and Elizabeth and the little boy.

999
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:37,840
Speaker 2: Arrived with private investigators in tow. Soon, everybody but Billy

1000
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 2: flew back to New York to sort the issue out,

1001
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 2: leaving him alone in a strange New town.

1002
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 1: Billy's biographer would later note that the best trust between

1003
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:50,359
Speaker 1: the future divorce is likely started then and there.

1004
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,919
Speaker 2: He had no kidding it didn't start when she lied

1005
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 2: to him about the relationship with her husband, though probably

1006
00:56:57,480 --> 00:56:58,800
Speaker 2: started there. Actually.

1007
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:03,360
Speaker 1: Eventually she would return to la with her son, and

1008
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 1: Billy found himself needing to support all of them. He

1009
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:07,279
Speaker 1: said he at the time that he had just seen

1010
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 1: the Godfather, and so you know, being there for your

1011
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 1: family was like a real, real heavy thing on his

1012
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 1: mind at this point. So long island, so long, So

1013
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 1: it's so long island energy.

1014
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw my Godfather really crystallized a few things

1015
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 2: for me.

1016
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 1: It made me realize I had to get money to

1017
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 1: support my family. It hadn't occurred to me until I

1018
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 1: saw the Godfather. So Billy took a job playing piano

1019
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 1: at a bar called the Executive Lounge on Wilshire Boulevard

1020
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:39,920
Speaker 1: on the border of.

1021
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 2: Korea Town in Hollywood.

1022
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 1: Despite its optimistic name, the bar was, by Billy's own estimation,

1023
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 1: a quote loser bar where people went after losing at

1024
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 1: the track, completing the whole undercover guys, which I don't

1025
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 1: really understand why he felt the need to do, because

1026
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 1: I can't imagine already Rip could claim a piece of

1027
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 1: his piano bar income. Billy Joel performed as Billy Martin,

1028
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 1: not to be confused with the Major League Baseball manager of.

1029
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 2: The same name. The pseudonym came from Billy's own middle

1030
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 2: name Martin.

1031
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 1: He'd later say, people think I made the name Billy

1032
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 1: Joel up.

1033
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 2: I would have come up with something better if I

1034
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 2: was going to make a name up. He's a quote machine.

1035
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 2: He is, Yeah, he really is.

1036
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 1: Billy took the dressing up in character when he performed

1037
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 1: at the Executive Lounge, wearing shirts with the collar turned

1038
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 1: all the way up and buttons undone halfway down his chest.

1039
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 1: He would say the character Steve Martin and Bill Murray

1040
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 1: do was a goof. I was doing too, but people

1041
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 1: didn't know I was kidding. They thought, Wow, this guy's

1042
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 1: really hip.

1043
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 2: It was a sobering period for Billy. A year earlier,

1044
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 2: it seemed like his dreams of musical stardom were in reach.

1045
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 2: Now he was a stranger in a strange town, playing

1046
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 2: requests at a bar for you in scale and tips well.

1047
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 2: His girlfriend waided tables nearby. He worked from dinner till

1048
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 2: two in the morning, six days a week. This was,

1049
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 2: in essence Billy's Hamburg period.

1050
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 1: To use a Beatles analogy, his boot camp phase right

1051
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 1: is yeah, incubator phase exactly yeah. Rather than play his

1052
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 1: own songs, his repertoire was mostly standards like Stardust, and

1053
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 1: as time goes by, he'd say, somebody would ask me

1054
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 1: for a song and I didn't know the song from

1055
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 1: a hole in the wall. But he'd play enough major

1056
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 1: sevens you can make a lot of the songs sound

1057
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 1: like other songs, not a song, but reminiscent of a song.

1058
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 1: He demonstrates this in a lot of interviews where because

1059
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 1: he in every unity gives you sitting at a piano

1060
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 1: and it's pretty fine.

1061
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 2: I don't I'll never forget going into the Steinway Place

1062
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 2: in midtime Manhattan, and there's just an enormous oil painting

1063
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 2: of Billy Joel, you know, like a like a like

1064
00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:00,280
Speaker 2: a leather bomber jacket, like leaning on a Steinway. He's like,

1065
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 2: hell yeah, painting. Yes, it was a painting. It's amaz

1066
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 2: well after.

1067
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 1: I think he was there for six I mean he

1068
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:11,000
Speaker 1: was at this bar for six months, but not long

1069
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:13,080
Speaker 1: into his tenure he had the idea of turning the

1070
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:16,439
Speaker 1: experience into a new composition. I was like, I've got

1071
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 1: to get a song out of this. It took place

1072
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 1: over a period of time. I came up with a

1073
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 1: melody sing us, a song piano man, and then little

1074
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:26,680
Speaker 1: by little I filled in the characters in the scenario.

1075
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 2: So I guess it took a couple of weeks.

1076
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 1: He would call to look out the windows song, in

1077
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 1: other words, a sketch of what was literally in front

1078
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 1: of him.

1079
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 2: How do you feel about the nuances of Joel's writing

1080
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:42,080
Speaker 2: in this particular song. I mean, it does We'll get

1081
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 2: to in a minute. It doesn't really seem.

1082
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 1: Like he he made a lot of choices.

1083
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 2: It seemed like he was just describing what was in

1084
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 2: front of him. Were you positive? You really like they're

1085
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 2: sharing a drink. They call loneliness, but it's better than

1086
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 2: drinking alone. I believe you chatted me about.

1087
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 1: That's a great line. Yeah, it's an incredible line, I think.

1088
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 1: I mean, there are some who feel that he.

1089
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 2: Took a really condescending view towards his cohorts in the bar,

1090
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:09,040
Speaker 2: both the ones that worked there and also the patrons.

1091
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 2: I don't think so.

1092
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:15,480
Speaker 1: I think that it's a fairly compassionate look at these people,

1093
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 1: because he feels as though he is one of them.

1094
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 2: I guess what do you think. I don't have an opinion.

1095
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 2: I don't care. Are we going to try and cancel

1096
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 2: Billy Joel for writing unsympathetically about barflies these? Really? Surely

1097
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 2: there's other people on the list before him, much worse things.

1098
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 1: But when we get to the whole critical appraisal of

1099
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:42,960
Speaker 1: Billy Joel section of this, a lot of people this

1100
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 1: song kind of soured him to a lot of critics

1101
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 1: because they felt that he came across as kind of arrogant,

1102
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 1: which was not the impression I got.

1103
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't see that. I mean, if anything,

1104
01:01:57,280 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 2: it's just cliches, yeah, and names that happened to apparently

1105
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 2: conveniently rhyme in real life.

1106
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:06,880
Speaker 1: But anyway, but you know, I will say I remember

1107
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 1: I watched an early one of the first I think

1108
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 1: it was Goldfinger, one of the early James Bond movies,

1109
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 1: with my family, maybe a year ago, and.

1110
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 2: I hadn't seen them a long, long, long, long long time,

1111
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 2: and it was really weird.

1112
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 1: How when you watch something that spawned a gazillion cliches. Yes,

1113
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 1: it's strange to be like, wait, no, this isn't actually

1114
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 1: a cliche. It feels like it with every fiber of

1115
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:33,720
Speaker 1: my being. But actually, this is the thing, this is

1116
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 1: the original, this is the thing that birthed a thousand imitators.

1117
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 2: And I kind of get that sense with this song.

1118
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 2: Yeah sure, or mister bud Jangles. So a spoiler alert,

1119
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:52,320
Speaker 2: The song Piano Man is extremely literal. Of course, Jordan

1120
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 2: brought it back to the Beatles, comparing it to Paul

1121
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:58,919
Speaker 2: McCartney's Penny Lane lyrics, almost journalistic in their detail, save

1122
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 2: for a few twists, A smile ran away from his

1123
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:05,560
Speaker 2: face and so forth. Billy would explain during a talk

1124
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 2: at Harvard in nineteen ninety four, all of the characters

1125
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 2: in that bar were actually real people. John at the

1126
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 2: bar was this guy named John, and he was at

1127
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 2: the bar. He was a friend of mine, and he

1128
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 2: gave me drinks for free. The gig sucked, but hey,

1129
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:24,080
Speaker 2: free drinks. Well back we yeah, fun fact as we

1130
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:25,920
Speaker 2: get to the he's quick with a joke or he'll

1131
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 2: light up your smoke section. Billy quit smoking after seeing

1132
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 2: a hypnotist in Boston who you have a tangential connection to.

1133
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:35,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, a friend of mine's dad went to see this

1134
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 1: hypnotist to help him stop smoking, maybe like ten years ago.

1135
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 1: The same Billy did an impression of him on stage,

1136
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:45,200
Speaker 1: and my friend's dad did a similar impression. He was

1137
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 1: is either Hungary or a Polish guy? Is that racist?

1138
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 1: I don't remember which one. Sorry, I'm hungary and it's okay, Yeah,

1139
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 1: that's my Billy Joel. That's actually that's probably of all

1140
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 1: the degrees of separation I have, the Billy Joel, probably

1141
01:03:57,400 --> 01:03:59,440
Speaker 1: the closest one I have, which is a shame because

1142
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 1: he's like I almost called him my White way All.

1143
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 1: That's an unfortunate term. Guy looks like Billy Joel. But

1144
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 1: I would love the interview with Billy Joel. Anybody listening

1145
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 1: right now is connection to Billy Joel? How many times

1146
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:16,800
Speaker 1: canna say Billy Joel? And this anecdote this is gonna

1147
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 1: let you punch yourself out.

1148
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 2: Next up in the song, we have Paul the real

1149
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 2: estate novelist, a phrase that has baffled music fans for years.

1150
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 2: Was he writing novels about real estate? Oh? Wow? No, no, not,

1151
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:34,520
Speaker 2: but I like that. Billy would explain that Paul was

1152
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:36,960
Speaker 2: a real estate broker who would sit at bar and

1153
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:40,000
Speaker 2: attempt to write the next great American novel. And Davy,

1154
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 2: according to Joel, was actually a guy who was in

1155
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:44,920
Speaker 2: the Navy. He would go out of his way to

1156
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 2: defend accusations of being a lazy rhymer. But Davey was

1157
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 2: in fact, at least reportedly in the Merchant Marines. And

1158
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:58,480
Speaker 2: we have verified details from the daughter of Davy. Hmmm,

1159
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:04,200
Speaker 2: scoop for you, and probably was for years, his daughter

1160
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:07,800
Speaker 2: Lisa told songfacts dot Com. Davy met Billy Joel in

1161
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:09,920
Speaker 2: a pub in Spain in nineteen seventy two while he

1162
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 2: was in the Navy. He married while he was in

1163
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 2: the navy, had three children. He passed away in two

1164
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 2: thousand and three. Of als, it really hurts when I

1165
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 2: hear this song played on the radio and they leave

1166
01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 2: this part out.

1167
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:25,920
Speaker 1: I mean, what they don't give a bio for every

1168
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:27,000
Speaker 1: character named this.

1169
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:32,760
Speaker 2: In any song. You don't issue corrections for popular song.

1170
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:35,240
Speaker 2: What if she went like a thirty second stinger tacked

1171
01:05:35,280 --> 01:05:37,440
Speaker 2: onto the end where Billy Joel was like, yeah, the

1172
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 2: guy he had als and he had three children, and

1173
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 2: I'd regret the error. People are weird man. The waitress

1174
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 2: who practiced politics was Billy's then girlfriend, later first wife,

1175
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:55,640
Speaker 2: and eventually divorcee, Elizabeth Webber, aka the one who repeatedly

1176
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 2: lied to him about circumstances of her life that would

1177
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:00,439
Speaker 2: impact his, and he tried to kill him off over

1178
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 2: her during the heat of their whole Attila love triangle

1179
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 2: with drummer John Small. She actually ran away for weeks

1180
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 2: and no one could find her. Just the model of

1181
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:14,760
Speaker 2: stability this woman. She later married Billy in September of

1182
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy three, after having arranged the wedding herself and

1183
01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:20,800
Speaker 2: telling Billy, we're getting married tomorrow and if you don't,

1184
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:24,240
Speaker 2: I'm leaving you. I'm starting to think she was an

1185
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:26,960
Speaker 2: actual psychopath, or at the very least had like borderline

1186
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:29,920
Speaker 2: personality disorder. These are not the actions of a sane,

1187
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 2: well adjusted person.

1188
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:34,120
Speaker 1: Let's say that no I made according to him it

1189
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 1: was the actions of a Catholic person sure living in

1190
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:39,560
Speaker 1: sin Well, He said, I didn't think it was the

1191
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:40,280
Speaker 1: right thing to do.

1192
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 2: I thought it was the right thing to do by her,

1193
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:49,320
Speaker 2: Perhaps unsurprisingly given her streak of unearned confidence, Elizabeth subsequently

1194
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 2: became Billy's manager a short while later, so with Maybe One.

1195
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:57,640
Speaker 1: Nothing bad ever happens when you appoint a loved one

1196
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 1: or family member in a business position.

1197
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:02,840
Speaker 2: Though often she is portrayed as some kind of villain

1198
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:04,640
Speaker 2: in the Billy Joel story, we do have her to

1199
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:07,440
Speaker 2: thank for inspiring some of his most romantic songs, including

1200
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:10,880
Speaker 2: She's Got Away, She's Always a Woman, and most famously,

1201
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:14,360
Speaker 2: just the Way You Are. He wrote the latter song

1202
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:16,640
Speaker 2: as a gift for her, using a melody that supposedly

1203
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 2: came to him in a dream, a Lah Yesterday and

1204
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:23,440
Speaker 2: the riff to Satisfaction. According to legend, after he Billy

1205
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 2: presented it to Elizabeth, she asked, does this mean that

1206
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:30,440
Speaker 2: I get the publishing too? It wasn't astute, if completely

1207
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:33,600
Speaker 2: soulless question, as this song proved to be his first

1208
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:35,160
Speaker 2: big hit and a Grammy winner.

1209
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 1: Of course it every woman wants to hear you get

1210
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 1: the publishing two sweetheart.

1211
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:45,880
Speaker 2: What ann Yeah, so defend her to me? As a

1212
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 2: non billy Joel fans with someone who bears him no quarrel?

1213
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:54,680
Speaker 2: Why is she not considered just an out and out

1214
01:07:54,760 --> 01:08:01,160
Speaker 2: villain the woke left? Yeah? I mean, I guess we

1215
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:05,800
Speaker 2: all learned our lesson with Yoko. Oh Okay, I don't

1216
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:09,120
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. I

1217
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:12,840
Speaker 2: genuinely I am as much of a Joel head as

1218
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:21,800
Speaker 2: I am. I he loved her, and sometimes that with

1219
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:25,200
Speaker 2: people in your life, you just gotta let him have that.

1220
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:28,479
Speaker 2: Billy was actually gonna leave just the way you are

1221
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:32,360
Speaker 2: off the Stranger, until Linda Ronstat and Phoebe Snow stopped

1222
01:08:32,360 --> 01:08:34,280
Speaker 2: by the studio and told him he was crazy if

1223
01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:38,640
Speaker 2: he didn't include it. Perhaps needless to say, Joel and

1224
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:42,439
Speaker 2: Weber's marriage slowly deteriorated, but Joel remained hopeful until nineteen

1225
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 2: eighty two, when he suffered a brutal motorcycle accident that

1226
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:48,719
Speaker 2: injured both of his hands, which, obviously for piano player,

1227
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:52,760
Speaker 2: is less than ideal. Is that the one that he

1228
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:57,040
Speaker 2: references in You might be right when he says I'll

1229
01:08:57,200 --> 01:09:00,800
Speaker 2: even drive to BEDSTI drive my motorcycle in the rain.

1230
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:04,360
Speaker 1: You know, I never thought about that. Maybe it is

1231
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:06,720
Speaker 1: I know that he like really screwed. I think it

1232
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:09,360
Speaker 1: was the thumb of his left hand. It's like all

1233
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:11,599
Speaker 1: just like the bone in it is gone.

1234
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:13,760
Speaker 2: It's just like, yeah, that's why he said he can't

1235
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:17,840
Speaker 2: break break strings with his left hand anymore. Right, Yeah, yeah,

1236
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:19,880
Speaker 2: so he used to be able to break piano strings

1237
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:24,759
Speaker 2: before the accident. Anyway, Continuing along this woman's villainous streak,

1238
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:27,120
Speaker 2: she visited him in the hospital and asked him to

1239
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 2: sign a contract which he was probably physically incapable of

1240
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:32,760
Speaker 2: doing at the time, that asked him to hand over

1241
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:37,000
Speaker 2: the majority of their assets to her Oz for gasps.

1242
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 2: Billy Joel was supposedly so heartbreaking over this that they

1243
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:42,960
Speaker 2: got a quickie divorce in Haiti, a nasty experience he

1244
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:47,040
Speaker 2: felt was perfectly appropriated given the circumstances, later quipping there's

1245
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:51,439
Speaker 2: a reason they don't call the place lovey Haiti. Yeah,

1246
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:55,599
Speaker 2: medium funny, Yes, I get it. Yeah. Even after the divorce,

1247
01:09:55,640 --> 01:10:00,120
Speaker 2: Billy was hopeful that they would reconcile. My god, he

1248
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:03,240
Speaker 2: bought her everything she wanted, including a four million dollar house.

1249
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 2: For years afterwards, whenever they sang just the Way You

1250
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:09,960
Speaker 2: Are in concert, Billy's drummer, Liberty de Vido, one of

1251
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:13,880
Speaker 2: the all time great rock names and himself a hilarious personage,

1252
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 2: would sing along, changing the chorus to she got the house,

1253
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:21,679
Speaker 2: she got the car, She got the house, she got

1254
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:27,800
Speaker 2: the car. That's great, that's really good. Joel admittedly feels

1255
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:29,920
Speaker 2: weird playing the song concert these days, and often ends

1256
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:32,880
Speaker 2: the performance by dead panning and then we got divorced,

1257
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:37,559
Speaker 2: but which is a great bit. But the story between

1258
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:40,439
Speaker 2: Joel and the Weber family gets even weirder. In a

1259
01:10:40,479 --> 01:10:42,800
Speaker 2: last didgitch attempt to save their marriage, Billy fired his

1260
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:46,040
Speaker 2: wife as his manager and replaced her with her own brother,

1261
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 2: Frank Webber, who remained as Billy's manager after their divorce.

1262
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:53,559
Speaker 2: Billy's second wife, Christy Brinkley, started noticing that Frank Weber

1263
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:55,799
Speaker 2: seemed to have an awful lot of houses and horses.

1264
01:10:56,360 --> 01:10:58,559
Speaker 2: She also found it weird that he flew private while

1265
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:01,920
Speaker 2: they flew commercial. Then, in nineteen eighty nine, Billy discovered

1266
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:04,360
Speaker 2: that Frank had stole millions from him over the years,

1267
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:07,479
Speaker 2: committed fraud, made faulty investments in his name, and had

1268
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:10,960
Speaker 2: given out countless loans. Billy fired him and sued for

1269
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:14,880
Speaker 2: ninety million, but only made eight million back. Despite this,

1270
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:18,880
Speaker 2: Billy the SAP tried to make amends with him in

1271
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:21,320
Speaker 2: later years, and even gave him free tickets to a

1272
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:24,360
Speaker 2: show he was playing in Florida. My god, that's what

1273
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:26,439
Speaker 2: I'm saying, dude, there's an element of this guy just

1274
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:30,000
Speaker 2: like continually stepping into the same rake of his own

1275
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:35,000
Speaker 2: own volition. You know, come on, Bud, don't do that.

1276
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:38,200
Speaker 2: Like learn from your mistakes. Back to the bit narrative

1277
01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:40,720
Speaker 2: of Piano Man. Over the course of the six month gig,

1278
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:43,040
Speaker 2: Billy did, in fact have numerous people coming up to

1279
01:11:43,120 --> 01:11:44,920
Speaker 2: him saying, you're too good for this place. What are

1280
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:46,840
Speaker 2: you doing here? I can get you a record deal.

1281
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:51,599
Speaker 2: This was more or less standard fare in LA where everyone,

1282
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:54,639
Speaker 2: as Billy would note, fancied themselves as an entrepreneur or producer.

1283
01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:57,439
Speaker 2: As he told his audience at Harvard in nineteen ninety four,

1284
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:01,040
Speaker 2: Hollywood produces producers, and they would say, man, what are

1285
01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:03,200
Speaker 2: you doing here? And I'd say, no, I love it here.

1286
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:05,920
Speaker 2: I hate the music business. I was lying through my

1287
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:08,040
Speaker 2: teeth because I didn't want to deal with another shyster,

1288
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:11,760
Speaker 2: but eventually the music business came knocking. It had been bubbling.

1289
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:16,479
Speaker 2: What had been bubbling? George the music industry. It had

1290
01:12:16,479 --> 01:12:18,920
Speaker 2: been bubbling ever since the promotional tour for his ill

1291
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:21,920
Speaker 2: fated Cold Spring Harbor album in nineteen seventy two. Bus.

1292
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 2: The buzz has been bubbling, the bus. The bus has

1293
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:26,519
Speaker 2: been bubbling. This buzz, buzz has been building. It bubbles,

1294
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:30,160
Speaker 2: and it builds, and it bubbles. Does all of these

1295
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:33,000
Speaker 2: things and more. Billy had played a radio concert for

1296
01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:36,880
Speaker 2: the Philadelphia station WMMR at the legendary Sigma Sound Studios,

1297
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:40,120
Speaker 2: home to Philly Soul Titan's Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff,

1298
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:43,639
Speaker 2: the architects of the Philadelphia Sound and also where David

1299
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:48,320
Speaker 2: Bowie recorded Diamond Dogs. This concert broadcast proved incredibly popular,

1300
01:12:48,360 --> 01:12:51,200
Speaker 2: and his live version of the track Captain Jack became

1301
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:53,559
Speaker 2: the most requested song in the history of the network,

1302
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:56,799
Speaker 2: which is ironic because the song hadn't even been properly

1303
01:12:56,840 --> 01:13:00,479
Speaker 2: recorded yet. Billy's aforementioned performance of the Porter and Music

1304
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:03,400
Speaker 2: Festival Mardi Soul was so well reviewed in the New

1305
01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:07,160
Speaker 2: York Times and witnessed first hands by representatives from Columbia

1306
01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:11,160
Speaker 2: Records including Clive Davis, who probably didn't realize that it

1307
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:13,960
Speaker 2: was a song about a heroin dealer, but yeah, what

1308
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:19,400
Speaker 2: are you gonna do? Clive's gonna Clive. While Joel was

1309
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 2: still all sensibly undercover in LA, he started to get

1310
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:25,880
Speaker 2: major labels seeking him out. Atlantic Records producer Jerry Wexler

1311
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:29,240
Speaker 2: schlept out to Billy's Malibu a frame rental with amet

1312
01:13:29,240 --> 01:13:31,799
Speaker 2: Airtegun in tow to hear some of the new songs,

1313
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:36,000
Speaker 2: including Piano Man. Hilariously, Wexer made fun of the song

1314
01:13:36,200 --> 01:13:39,519
Speaker 2: a playing the chord progression, Walt's time signature and general

1315
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:43,120
Speaker 2: depressive tone to Mister bo Jangles, which had been a

1316
01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:45,439
Speaker 2: hit about a year earlier for the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band.

1317
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:48,960
Speaker 2: He also told Billy, you play too much. Quit playing

1318
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:51,040
Speaker 2: so much. I mean, I.

1319
01:13:51,280 --> 01:13:55,400
Speaker 1: Guess Jerry Wexler, who produced you know, Aretha Franklin and

1320
01:13:55,479 --> 01:13:58,360
Speaker 1: all those great Atlantic bills.

1321
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:01,320
Speaker 2: If Jerry Wexler tells you you're playing too much, you

1322
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:03,519
Speaker 2: might actually be playing too much, right.

1323
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:05,160
Speaker 1: But it's still like, I mean, you know, he's on

1324
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:07,200
Speaker 1: the shortlist of people who can get away with making

1325
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:10,439
Speaker 1: those kind of criticisms. But when you just like listen

1326
01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:14,040
Speaker 1: to some guy in his like rental house, play some demos,

1327
01:14:14,120 --> 01:14:16,680
Speaker 1: and you're Jerry Wexler and you're sitting there with Atlantic

1328
01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:18,920
Speaker 1: Records co founder ahmat Urdigan.

1329
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:21,920
Speaker 2: Like, maybe go easy on the kids. Eh, he's a

1330
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:24,080
Speaker 2: big boy. He can handle it. That's what he's getting

1331
01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:29,960
Speaker 2: out there. He obviously can't handle anything. But you know again,

1332
01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:34,720
Speaker 2: Jerry Wexler is probably someone I'd listened to anyway. This

1333
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:36,800
Speaker 2: is neither here nor there because Billy decided to go

1334
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:40,160
Speaker 2: with Clive Davis and Columbia Records, although he would later

1335
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:43,160
Speaker 2: say that it was because Columbia had recorded Bob Dylan.

1336
01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:46,200
Speaker 2: They were a career label, he would say, which is

1337
01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:50,679
Speaker 2: a nerdy loser thing to say it is. However, Columbia

1338
01:14:50,720 --> 01:14:52,800
Speaker 2: was very good to Billy. Not only did they stick

1339
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:54,800
Speaker 2: with him through three albums that weren't hits, but they

1340
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:57,880
Speaker 2: eventually got him out of the nightmarish situation with Artie

1341
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:01,880
Speaker 2: Rip and the hilariously named Family Productions. It ended up

1342
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:05,560
Speaker 2: being fairly easy. They simply appealed to Rip's natural avarice

1343
01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:07,840
Speaker 2: by saying, hey, your label is so dysfunctional that can

1344
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:10,160
Speaker 2: barely distribute albums, let alone promote them. How do you

1345
01:15:10,160 --> 01:15:11,800
Speaker 2: think you're going to make a sale? Let us do

1346
01:15:11,880 --> 01:15:14,320
Speaker 2: that and will cut you in for a percentage. In

1347
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:17,600
Speaker 2: exchange for releasing Joel from his contract, Rip agreed to

1348
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:20,559
Speaker 2: receive about four percent or twenty eight cents of the

1349
01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:24,519
Speaker 2: retail price of each sale of Joel's first ten albums

1350
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:27,839
Speaker 2: released with Columbia. That's what we call passive income, folks.

1351
01:15:28,439 --> 01:15:31,120
Speaker 2: Clive Davis would depart the label soon after Billy came

1352
01:15:31,160 --> 01:15:34,599
Speaker 2: aboard after becoming embroiled in a controversy for allegedly using

1353
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:37,519
Speaker 2: corporate funds to renovate his apartment and throw a barb

1354
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:42,320
Speaker 2: vinza for his son, something he still denies, eh seven.

1355
01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:45,080
Speaker 2: It was the seventies record industry. Let the man throw

1356
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:47,679
Speaker 2: a bar mitzvah for his kid? On the company dime

1357
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:52,800
Speaker 2: Volatile New Columbia Records head Walter Yetnikoff threatened Rip with

1358
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:56,320
Speaker 2: industry banishment and bodily harm if he didn't play ball

1359
01:15:56,479 --> 01:16:00,200
Speaker 2: regarding the Billy situation. Ultimately, Yetnikoff bought back Billy these

1360
01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:02,559
Speaker 2: publishing rights and gave them to him for his twenty

1361
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:05,760
Speaker 2: ninth birthday. By the time the business relationship between a

1362
01:16:05,800 --> 01:16:08,559
Speaker 2: Lady Rip and Billy Joel was finally severed. Billy had

1363
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:12,200
Speaker 2: sold some eighty million records, netting his nemesis already Rip

1364
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:15,400
Speaker 2: a sizable fortune. But at least Billy was able to

1365
01:16:15,400 --> 01:16:17,760
Speaker 2: get out of his creatively inspiring but ultimately dead end

1366
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:20,960
Speaker 2: gig at the Executive Room, which has sadly since been

1367
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:25,799
Speaker 2: demolished and replaced by the Wilshire Grammercy Plaza shopping center. However,

1368
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:28,120
Speaker 2: the piano Billy played there still exists in the home

1369
01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:31,280
Speaker 2: of former owners Roy and Jill Hill, who now live

1370
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:34,479
Speaker 2: in Florida. And this concludes, are it belongs in a

1371
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:37,000
Speaker 2: museum segment of the day? I'm so glad we got

1372
01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:37,519
Speaker 2: that in there.

1373
01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:41,640
Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break, but we'll be

1374
01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:44,559
Speaker 1: right back with more. Too much information in just a moment.

1375
01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:51,920
Speaker 2: Wow.

1376
01:16:56,840 --> 01:16:59,040
Speaker 1: The fine folks of Columbia got Billy out of the

1377
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:02,440
Speaker 1: Executive Room and to the studio to record a new album.

1378
01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:06,000
Speaker 1: They paired him with producer Michael Stewart, who's best known

1379
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:08,040
Speaker 1: to me at least as a singer in the mid

1380
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:11,360
Speaker 1: sixties folk group The We five of You were on

1381
01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:12,640
Speaker 1: My mind Fame.

1382
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:18,280
Speaker 2: Woke up this morning. You were all my ma No okay.

1383
01:17:19,240 --> 01:17:22,479
Speaker 1: The album featured top La session players like banjo legend

1384
01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:26,000
Speaker 1: Eric Weitzberg, who had his own hit with Dueling Banjos

1385
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:28,960
Speaker 1: a year or so earlier, as well as Ronnie Tutt,

1386
01:17:29,160 --> 01:17:31,519
Speaker 1: an incredible drummer who played dates with the likes of

1387
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:35,720
Speaker 1: Elvis Presley, the Carpenters, Roy Orbison, Neil Diamond, and Jerry Garcia.

1388
01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:37,759
Speaker 2: We don't want to go too deep.

1389
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:39,800
Speaker 1: On the Piano Man album since this episode is about

1390
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:42,000
Speaker 1: the song and not the LP, but it has some

1391
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:44,639
Speaker 1: good stuff on it and I think that you would

1392
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:47,920
Speaker 1: enjoy it. As Billy himself would say, a lot of

1393
01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:50,560
Speaker 1: different influences went into this. There are some country and

1394
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:54,040
Speaker 1: Western influences and bluegrass the Roy Rogers band.

1395
01:17:53,880 --> 01:17:55,120
Speaker 2: Was playing on this album.

1396
01:17:55,680 --> 01:17:58,320
Speaker 1: I am assuming he's talking about the track The Ballot

1397
01:17:58,320 --> 01:18:01,200
Speaker 1: of Billy the Kid, which is an extremely well done

1398
01:18:01,280 --> 01:18:04,680
Speaker 1: Western Pestiche with a cute bit of self mythology at

1399
01:18:04,720 --> 01:18:08,400
Speaker 1: the end as he contrasts the similarly named outlaw with himself.

1400
01:18:08,920 --> 01:18:11,320
Speaker 1: The song opens with the lines from a town known

1401
01:18:11,360 --> 01:18:14,360
Speaker 1: as Wheeling, West Virginia wrote a boy with a six

1402
01:18:14,439 --> 01:18:17,479
Speaker 1: gun in his hand, and the song closes with the

1403
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:20,639
Speaker 1: lions from a town known as Oyster Bay, Long Island

1404
01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:23,160
Speaker 1: wrote a boy with a six pack in his hand.

1405
01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:25,280
Speaker 2: It's cute. It's a good song. It's a really good song.

1406
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:28,600
Speaker 1: It kind of rips like it goes, do you know,

1407
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:30,640
Speaker 1: burn down the mission, the Elton Johnson long.

1408
01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:34,320
Speaker 2: It sounds like something off a Tumbleweed connection. Basically, Billy

1409
01:18:34,360 --> 01:18:37,400
Speaker 2: didn't really get into the gospel thing that much, which

1410
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:37,599
Speaker 2: you mean.

1411
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:40,200
Speaker 1: I guess it's probably for the best. But yeah, this

1412
01:18:40,320 --> 01:18:43,320
Speaker 1: gets kind of close and it's good. It might be

1413
01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:46,200
Speaker 1: a little too like on the nose for you.

1414
01:18:46,160 --> 01:18:49,120
Speaker 2: But you can just say two white. It's a cowboy song.

1415
01:18:49,400 --> 01:18:52,640
Speaker 1: He would describe it as a completely made up movie scenario.

1416
01:18:52,800 --> 01:18:54,960
Speaker 1: I wanted to write a movie soundtrack, but nobody was

1417
01:18:55,000 --> 01:18:57,519
Speaker 1: offering me a movie to write a soundtrack to, so

1418
01:18:57,640 --> 01:19:01,920
Speaker 1: I made up my own. That's a standout, alongside the

1419
01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:04,479
Speaker 1: title track, of course, and Captain Jack, which is the

1420
01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:07,200
Speaker 1: other big song on the record. I'm also a fan

1421
01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:10,320
Speaker 1: of album cuts like Stopping Nevada and travel in Prayer.

1422
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:13,519
Speaker 1: You're My Home, which a broke Billy wrote as a

1423
01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:16,360
Speaker 1: Valentine's Day gift to his wife in nineteen seventy three,

1424
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:19,599
Speaker 1: is especially cute and meaningful to me because it shouts

1425
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:23,240
Speaker 1: out the Pennsylvania Turnpike, which my parents would be driving

1426
01:19:23,240 --> 01:19:25,360
Speaker 1: on when they'd listen to this album on eight track

1427
01:19:25,439 --> 01:19:29,760
Speaker 1: in their nineteen sixty two Ford to Conoline Van dubbed Marigold,

1428
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:35,240
Speaker 1: the Octopus, the Seventies Ladies and Gentlemen, and that would

1429
01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:38,080
Speaker 1: have been probably not long after this album was released

1430
01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:42,400
Speaker 1: on November fourteenth, nineteen seventy three. The album was certified

1431
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:46,080
Speaker 1: goldbo the RIAA in nineteen seventy five, but due to

1432
01:19:46,120 --> 01:19:49,920
Speaker 1: all the contractual issues, Billy only received eight grand in

1433
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:54,640
Speaker 1: royalties or forty five thousand dollars in contemporary money, a

1434
01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:58,479
Speaker 1: far cry from his fifty thousand dollars advance for that site.

1435
01:19:58,560 --> 01:19:59,400
Speaker 2: Rock Abomination.

1436
01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:02,759
Speaker 1: Piano Man was released as a single on November second,

1437
01:20:02,920 --> 01:20:06,679
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three. The original album cut was deemed too

1438
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:09,240
Speaker 1: long at five minutes and thirty seven seconds, so they

1439
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:11,799
Speaker 1: trimmed it down to four minutes and thirty three seconds,

1440
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:15,760
Speaker 1: a move that would piss off Billy so greatly that

1441
01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:17,880
Speaker 1: he would complain about it in the lyrics to his

1442
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:21,439
Speaker 1: follow up single The Entertainer, singing, it was a.

1443
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:23,360
Speaker 2: Beautiful song, but it ran too long.

1444
01:20:23,479 --> 01:20:25,479
Speaker 1: If you're gonna have a hit, you gotta make it

1445
01:20:25,520 --> 01:20:28,360
Speaker 1: fit so they cut it down to three to zero five.

1446
01:20:29,200 --> 01:20:31,040
Speaker 2: Classic bitch, Bitch.

1447
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:34,360
Speaker 1: You know. I didn't realize this until researching this episode.

1448
01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:38,040
Speaker 1: Billy turned down working with The Beatles producer George Martin

1449
01:20:38,160 --> 01:20:41,160
Speaker 1: on The Stranger a few years later because Martin wanted

1450
01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:45,840
Speaker 1: to use session players and not Billy's own band. He's

1451
01:20:46,040 --> 01:20:50,560
Speaker 1: principled to the point of self sabotage. Good for him,

1452
01:20:50,760 --> 01:20:53,400
Speaker 1: although George Martin also didn't want to use Ringo when

1453
01:20:53,479 --> 01:20:55,559
Speaker 1: Ringo first showed up, and he used the session drummer

1454
01:20:55,560 --> 01:20:56,719
Speaker 1: for the first beats recording.

1455
01:20:56,800 --> 01:21:00,320
Speaker 2: So that's true, and good lord, can you imagine what wait,

1456
01:21:00,320 --> 01:21:04,960
Speaker 2: Old George gets a load of Liberty to Vito? Baby?

1457
01:21:05,680 --> 01:21:09,559
Speaker 2: Is Liberty Divito a good drummer? I don't know. I

1458
01:21:09,640 --> 01:21:12,400
Speaker 2: just love his name and the fact that didn't he

1459
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 2: sue over piano man or was it a different song?

1460
01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:16,720
Speaker 2: I know they had some kind of falling.

1461
01:21:16,439 --> 01:21:20,240
Speaker 1: Out that went unresolved until very recently. I forget exactly

1462
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:21,479
Speaker 1: what it is, but.

1463
01:21:22,200 --> 01:21:24,920
Speaker 2: I thought it was over piano man or a different

1464
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:27,200
Speaker 2: like huge hit, and he was like, well, I changed

1465
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:28,800
Speaker 2: the drum feel on that song.

1466
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:32,280
Speaker 1: It probably was just the way you are because that

1467
01:21:32,439 --> 01:21:35,680
Speaker 1: song was originally almost like a calypso or like like

1468
01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:38,800
Speaker 1: samba type beat, and then they put the weird.

1469
01:21:38,680 --> 01:21:40,360
Speaker 2: Oh my god, do you know what? Liberty is a

1470
01:21:40,439 --> 01:21:46,679
Speaker 2: nickname for no Liberta, Torri, Liberta, Torri de Vito. That's

1471
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:49,519
Speaker 2: his name, that's our name. His dad was in the

1472
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:53,400
Speaker 2: NYPD car slain View Long Island Man, what a Long

1473
01:21:53,439 --> 01:22:00,120
Speaker 2: Island legal issues. He just sued over royalties, but they

1474
01:22:00,120 --> 01:22:03,760
Speaker 2: resolved it like it was just I'm assuming Billy Joel

1475
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:06,559
Speaker 2: just cut him a check and gave him his pink slip.

1476
01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:09,920
Speaker 2: I don't know what song it was over specifically, anyway,

1477
01:22:10,080 --> 01:22:12,559
Speaker 2: who cares well.

1478
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:15,759
Speaker 1: In keeping with something of a TMI theme, this beloved

1479
01:22:15,800 --> 01:22:18,720
Speaker 1: classic was not a world beating smash when it was

1480
01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:21,880
Speaker 1: first released, at least not right away. As Billy would

1481
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:24,800
Speaker 1: later say, it was a turntable hit. It didn't really

1482
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:27,280
Speaker 1: sell through. It just got played a lot on the radio,

1483
01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:29,759
Speaker 1: so the perception was that it was a hit record,

1484
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:33,120
Speaker 1: but it really wasn't. Piano Man peaked at number twenty

1485
01:22:33,120 --> 01:22:36,160
Speaker 1: five on the Billboard Hot one hundred. Yeah, it's hard

1486
01:22:36,200 --> 01:22:40,320
Speaker 1: to remember, but Billy Joel didn't really get huge until

1487
01:22:40,360 --> 01:22:42,200
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy Seven's The Stranger.

1488
01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:44,800
Speaker 2: Before that, like the album before the.

1489
01:22:44,720 --> 01:22:48,400
Speaker 1: Stranger was Turnstiles, which is the one with New York

1490
01:22:48,439 --> 01:22:51,599
Speaker 1: State of Mind, and I forget a lot of other

1491
01:22:51,720 --> 01:22:54,640
Speaker 1: huge songs too, and that album I think peaked at

1492
01:22:54,640 --> 01:22:58,000
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty six, I want to say, yeah, So,

1493
01:22:58,080 --> 01:23:01,599
Speaker 1: I mean he was very close to disappearing forever, which

1494
01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:04,799
Speaker 1: is wild that a major label gave.

1495
01:23:04,640 --> 01:23:10,160
Speaker 2: Him that many chances. I mean, again totally by gone era. Yeah,

1496
01:23:10,200 --> 01:23:12,679
Speaker 2: I mean I always think about Tom Waits too, who

1497
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:16,439
Speaker 2: was on asylum for like most of his stuff when

1498
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:21,680
Speaker 2: his bit basically broke down to a drunker Billy Joel.

1499
01:23:21,920 --> 01:23:25,719
Speaker 2: He had like five records that didn't produce any hits.

1500
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:27,720
Speaker 2: The one thing that kept him going was that he

1501
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:32,679
Speaker 2: wrote Jersey Girl and Springsteen covered that and that probably

1502
01:23:32,840 --> 01:23:36,120
Speaker 2: saved his ass. But then they, you know, after like

1503
01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:40,200
Speaker 2: five records of that, that's how much rope they gave him.

1504
01:23:40,240 --> 01:23:42,400
Speaker 2: And then he got he met his wife and became

1505
01:23:42,479 --> 01:23:43,720
Speaker 2: like the Tom Waits we now know.

1506
01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:48,600
Speaker 1: You know the hotel that Billy and his soon to

1507
01:23:48,640 --> 01:23:51,320
Speaker 1: be wife and their young son or her young son

1508
01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:53,880
Speaker 1: lived in when they first got to La It was

1509
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:57,560
Speaker 1: called the Tropicana, and that was also I think a

1510
01:23:57,600 --> 01:24:01,479
Speaker 1: hotel that Tom Waits lived in for a long time. Yes, yeah,

1511
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:05,800
Speaker 1: is that big in his Laura? I don't know them, Yeah, I.

1512
01:24:05,680 --> 01:24:08,920
Speaker 3: Think it is it the club that's the Tropicana too,

1513
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:12,320
Speaker 3: that he was the doorman working at for he worked

1514
01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:14,120
Speaker 3: or for it right when he moved out to LA

1515
01:24:14,200 --> 01:24:16,759
Speaker 3: And I think that a lot of the La people

1516
01:24:16,800 --> 01:24:19,839
Speaker 3: that he knew stem from that time period.

1517
01:24:20,160 --> 01:24:21,840
Speaker 2: God, I love Tom Waits. We should do a Tom

1518
01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:23,760
Speaker 2: Waits record. Man, sure, I want to do bone Saw

1519
01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:27,840
Speaker 2: bow Machine. Yeah, I would do bow Machine. I would

1520
01:24:27,880 --> 01:24:32,439
Speaker 2: do rain Dogs, but bow Machine has an anniversary, right,

1521
01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:37,080
Speaker 2: everything has an anniversary. Yeah, let's just let's do bow Machine. Cool?

1522
01:24:37,320 --> 01:24:38,519
Speaker 2: All right? As you were so.

1523
01:24:38,600 --> 01:24:40,799
Speaker 1: Pian and Mamm wasn't a huge hit in the charts,

1524
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:43,760
Speaker 1: but it earned warm reviews, including lots of comparisons to

1525
01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:48,679
Speaker 1: the rambling yet evocative story songs of Harry Chapin, whose

1526
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:51,559
Speaker 1: six plus minute epic Taxi was in the charts around

1527
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:55,040
Speaker 1: this time. Case in point review in cash Box read

1528
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:59,080
Speaker 1: the soft, tender narrative tune reminiscent of the material being

1529
01:24:59,080 --> 01:25:02,000
Speaker 1: spun by Harry and is going to attract a ton

1530
01:25:02,040 --> 01:25:05,360
Speaker 1: of folks looking to sink their teeth into an equal blend.

1531
01:25:05,160 --> 01:25:08,639
Speaker 2: Of music and lyrics. This was one of the last

1532
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:13,240
Speaker 2: positive reviews Billy Joel would get for decades. Oh you

1533
01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:16,280
Speaker 2: should talk about why the structure of this song is weird? Yeah,

1534
01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:18,760
Speaker 2: I mean I was looking ahead and I was like,

1535
01:25:19,560 --> 01:25:22,280
Speaker 2: there's a lot of songs in Walt's time that have

1536
01:25:22,360 --> 01:25:22,880
Speaker 2: been hits.

1537
01:25:24,240 --> 01:25:25,960
Speaker 1: Well it's more than that though, I mean, it's just

1538
01:25:26,120 --> 01:25:28,760
Speaker 1: there are lots of things about the song Piano Man

1539
01:25:28,880 --> 01:25:32,240
Speaker 1: that make it an unlikely success, and Billy Joel's been

1540
01:25:32,920 --> 01:25:35,759
Speaker 1: puzzled by why people like it for I mean fifty

1541
01:25:35,840 --> 01:25:36,360
Speaker 1: years now.

1542
01:25:37,000 --> 01:25:40,479
Speaker 2: Sure, so, Billy Joel is admittedly was puzzled by the

1543
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:42,960
Speaker 2: song becoming the classic that it was. It's got a

1544
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:46,320
Speaker 2: lot of things working against it as far as something

1545
01:25:46,479 --> 01:25:49,840
Speaker 2: in the popular market. It's a long song about depressing people,

1546
01:25:49,920 --> 01:25:52,639
Speaker 2: drinking away their wasted lives and coping with the crippling

1547
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:55,360
Speaker 2: disappointment that comes more and more at every stage of life.

1548
01:25:55,439 --> 01:25:57,960
Speaker 2: Do you ever see did you see that Norm McDonald

1549
01:25:58,040 --> 01:26:00,760
Speaker 2: bit that was going around where he's like, uh, yeah,

1550
01:26:00,800 --> 01:26:03,760
Speaker 2: you know, and uh, you know, when people kill themselves,

1551
01:26:04,439 --> 01:26:06,240
Speaker 2: people say I don't know why, I don't know why

1552
01:26:06,280 --> 01:26:10,040
Speaker 2: you did it, And I always say, you don't you

1553
01:26:10,120 --> 01:26:13,719
Speaker 2: live in a cotton candy house. You don't know about

1554
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:21,919
Speaker 2: you don't know about life. It only gets worse and worse. Anyway,

1555
01:26:22,120 --> 01:26:25,280
Speaker 2: it's a waltz. It's in six eight time hit waltzes

1556
01:26:25,320 --> 01:26:27,639
Speaker 2: do include Iris by the Googoo Dolls, Kiss for Rose

1557
01:26:27,680 --> 01:26:30,519
Speaker 2: by Seal Joe Cocker's version with a little help from

1558
01:26:30,560 --> 01:26:36,800
Speaker 2: My friends, uh, and the rest Hallelujah. Oh yeah, House

1559
01:26:36,840 --> 01:26:41,000
Speaker 2: of the Rising Sun. There's a Lincoln Park song in

1560
01:26:41,120 --> 01:26:44,479
Speaker 2: six ' eight which kind of rules. Let Me Roll

1561
01:26:44,560 --> 01:26:47,000
Speaker 2: You're beloved, Let Me Roll It by Paula Carte in

1562
01:26:47,080 --> 01:26:52,200
Speaker 2: Wings Nothing Else Matters by Metallica, m oh, we are

1563
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:58,320
Speaker 2: the champions, your precious Norwegian wood Call Me, Call Me

1564
01:26:58,400 --> 01:27:00,880
Speaker 2: by the Belondi is in in a six eight.

1565
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:03,600
Speaker 1: I thought you were gonna say call me when you

1566
01:27:03,640 --> 01:27:05,400
Speaker 1: try to write about things and mixed meters.

1567
01:27:05,439 --> 01:27:11,280
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I mean it's anyway. So it's the melody

1568
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:13,960
Speaker 2: is just the same the entire way through, which is funny.

1569
01:27:14,200 --> 01:27:18,240
Speaker 2: Actually that's interesting because maybe it was. Max Martin talked

1570
01:27:18,280 --> 01:27:21,960
Speaker 2: about how Prince would make the chorus melody the same

1571
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:26,320
Speaker 2: as the verse melody and just change the under change

1572
01:27:26,360 --> 01:27:29,920
Speaker 2: what underline because it reinforces the strength of the melody

1573
01:27:29,960 --> 01:27:34,800
Speaker 2: while recontextualizing it. That's cool. Wow. I think I think

1574
01:27:34,840 --> 01:27:38,000
Speaker 2: I was hearing that from someone else, like an interview

1575
01:27:38,080 --> 01:27:40,840
Speaker 2: where someone was like, oh yeah, Max Martin talks about anyway.

1576
01:27:42,080 --> 01:27:44,439
Speaker 2: As Billy Joel said on a nineteen ninety nine appearance

1577
01:27:44,479 --> 01:27:48,320
Speaker 2: on Inside the Actors Studio, it always amazes me how

1578
01:27:48,320 --> 01:27:51,200
Speaker 2: popular that song is. Musically. It's the same melody over

1579
01:27:51,240 --> 01:27:53,959
Speaker 2: and over again. I just jump an octave for the chorus.

1580
01:27:54,240 --> 01:27:56,240
Speaker 2: I don't think it's that great a melody. It's a

1581
01:27:56,280 --> 01:27:59,280
Speaker 2: good enough sing along melody. He often tells the story

1582
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:01,360
Speaker 2: of going to pianos and getting noticed by the guy

1583
01:28:01,400 --> 01:28:03,760
Speaker 2: behind the keys, who will often start to whip off

1584
01:28:03,800 --> 01:28:06,400
Speaker 2: an impromptu version of Piano Man, only to realize that

1585
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:09,240
Speaker 2: the melody simply repeats over and over. I walk into

1586
01:28:09,280 --> 01:28:10,960
Speaker 2: a place and there's a piano bar guy, and he

1587
01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:14,160
Speaker 2: sees me, what does he do? Start playing Piano Man? Now,

1588
01:28:14,200 --> 01:28:16,160
Speaker 2: even if he's never played the song before, it's pretty

1589
01:28:16,200 --> 01:28:18,519
Speaker 2: easy to figure out. It doesn't hit the guy until

1590
01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:19,960
Speaker 2: he's into the song for a bit that it doesn't

1591
01:28:20,000 --> 01:28:22,280
Speaker 2: go anywhere. And about that time our eyes meet and

1592
01:28:22,320 --> 01:28:25,360
Speaker 2: I go, yep, that's all there is. Sometimes you need words.

1593
01:28:25,960 --> 01:28:36,559
Speaker 2: I mean, think about it. It's like, I mean, it's

1594
01:28:36,920 --> 01:28:38,320
Speaker 2: the way you the way you do it make it

1595
01:28:38,360 --> 01:28:46,360
Speaker 2: sound like an Irish jid. No no no no no no,

1596
01:28:47,280 --> 01:28:54,800
Speaker 2: it's the Kucaracha. Actually anyway. He's also spoken disparagingly about

1597
01:28:54,840 --> 01:28:59,040
Speaker 2: the lyrics uh, describing them as more of a limerick. Uh.

1598
01:28:59,320 --> 01:29:01,439
Speaker 2: He says he starts with the music for his songs

1599
01:29:01,479 --> 01:29:05,559
Speaker 2: before writing lyrics, and the only one that he started

1600
01:29:05,560 --> 01:29:10,280
Speaker 2: with lyrics was we Didn't Start the Fire, which we

1601
01:29:10,320 --> 01:29:13,640
Speaker 2: all know how that went. Piano man does have the

1602
01:29:13,680 --> 01:29:17,240
Speaker 2: harmonica parts a nice little hook. Joel's inspiration for seeing

1603
01:29:17,439 --> 01:29:19,880
Speaker 2: the harmonica brace the little thing that hangs around your

1604
01:29:19,920 --> 01:29:24,760
Speaker 2: neck so you can just wheeze and blow away on

1605
01:29:24,840 --> 01:29:29,160
Speaker 2: a harmonica. Yeah, hon ko on some bobo, as Aerosmith

1606
01:29:29,200 --> 01:29:32,679
Speaker 2: would say, he got that from Bob Dylan. He assumed

1607
01:29:32,720 --> 01:29:37,800
Speaker 2: that Bob Dylan had been in a car accident. Ladies

1608
01:29:37,840 --> 01:29:41,519
Speaker 2: and gentlemen, please feel sorry for Bob Dylan. But yeah, overall,

1609
01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:44,640
Speaker 2: Billy is and billin and still and somewhat critical of

1610
01:29:44,640 --> 01:29:47,799
Speaker 2: his signature song, telling audience members at a Fairfield University

1611
01:29:47,840 --> 01:29:50,880
Speaker 2: seminar in nineteen ninety six, is Billy Joel being invited

1612
01:29:50,920 --> 01:29:55,120
Speaker 2: to so many hallowed halls of higher education and the

1613
01:29:55,240 --> 01:29:58,760
Speaker 2: arts to talk about piano man, he's inside they student.

1614
01:29:58,640 --> 01:30:02,160
Speaker 1: Many tours, he's he's done many seminar tours over the year.

1615
01:30:02,200 --> 01:30:04,280
Speaker 1: Like he would literally go on tours of colleges and

1616
01:30:04,280 --> 01:30:07,760
Speaker 1: do q and as all Like his YouTube channel is

1617
01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:10,719
Speaker 1: like because he hasn't a song in thirty one years.

1618
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:14,680
Speaker 1: It's like half excerpts from these q and as that

1619
01:30:14,720 --> 01:30:18,519
Speaker 1: he would do, you know, some in like Vienna, some

1620
01:30:18,720 --> 01:30:22,280
Speaker 1: in Harvard, some it was just all over the country, Vassar,

1621
01:30:22,400 --> 01:30:23,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say it was one of them.

1622
01:30:24,120 --> 01:30:27,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny though he's the librick.

1623
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:30,519
Speaker 1: Thing is funny because he demonstrates that like the rhythm

1624
01:30:30,520 --> 01:30:32,800
Speaker 1: and cadence a piano man, I'm done at the bars

1625
01:30:32,800 --> 01:30:33,439
Speaker 1: a friend of mine.

1626
01:30:33,479 --> 01:30:35,439
Speaker 2: And da da da da da thie da da da

1627
01:30:35,479 --> 01:30:36,720
Speaker 2: da da da da da da da da da da

1628
01:30:36,760 --> 01:30:37,599
Speaker 2: da da da da da da.

1629
01:30:37,600 --> 01:30:39,519
Speaker 1: I mean, it's he's right. It sounds like you know,

1630
01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:41,000
Speaker 1: there once was a man from Nantucket.

1631
01:30:41,280 --> 01:30:45,599
Speaker 2: Anyway, he told the audiences at Fairfield University in nineteen

1632
01:30:45,640 --> 01:30:48,360
Speaker 2: ninety six, I don't have a negative feeling about that song.

1633
01:30:48,680 --> 01:30:51,120
Speaker 2: I don't regret always playing it at concerts, but I'm

1634
01:30:51,160 --> 01:30:53,680
Speaker 2: just constantly surprised at the success of it. I know

1635
01:30:53,760 --> 01:30:55,439
Speaker 2: that people like the story and the image of this

1636
01:30:55,439 --> 01:30:57,840
Speaker 2: guy playing the piano, which was me, But it always

1637
01:30:57,880 --> 01:31:00,720
Speaker 2: amazes me that if you take it apart, well, maybe

1638
01:31:00,760 --> 01:31:04,120
Speaker 2: you shouldn't dissect something. Well, it's still alive. That's a

1639
01:31:04,120 --> 01:31:05,839
Speaker 2: good line, tremendous quote.

1640
01:31:05,880 --> 01:31:08,280
Speaker 1: Well, most of the time, Billy's his own harshest critic,

1641
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:12,439
Speaker 1: but he's had some real harsh critics too, And this

1642
01:31:12,600 --> 01:31:15,800
Speaker 1: leads us to a section that I like to call critics.

1643
01:31:16,320 --> 01:31:19,960
Speaker 1: I hate these guys quote citation Billy Joel.

1644
01:31:20,760 --> 01:31:22,200
Speaker 2: For a long time, I didn't.

1645
01:31:22,000 --> 01:31:25,880
Speaker 1: Really think about contemporary critical appraisal of Billy Joel much

1646
01:31:25,880 --> 01:31:28,320
Speaker 1: as I don't think of the contemporary critical appraisal of

1647
01:31:28,360 --> 01:31:30,960
Speaker 1: Elton John or the Beach Boys, or Paul Simon or

1648
01:31:31,560 --> 01:31:34,439
Speaker 1: any other beloved titan of classic rock, because, as far

1649
01:31:34,439 --> 01:31:37,799
Speaker 1: as I'm concerned, their outside status and the popular pantheon

1650
01:31:37,840 --> 01:31:41,599
Speaker 1: of music tends to outshine whatever critics said forty plus

1651
01:31:41,680 --> 01:31:45,320
Speaker 1: years ago. But in Billy's case, it's important to remember

1652
01:31:45,400 --> 01:31:49,880
Speaker 1: that he was regularly maligned and truly hated my most

1653
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:53,559
Speaker 1: mainstream musical critics, and I guess that's would make sense

1654
01:31:53,640 --> 01:31:57,040
Speaker 1: during his eighties MTV era, when his ubiquity with songs

1655
01:31:57,040 --> 01:32:00,280
Speaker 1: that frankly weren't his best made him almost a press

1656
01:32:00,320 --> 01:32:04,160
Speaker 1: of presence. But it seems like the music press really

1657
01:32:04,160 --> 01:32:07,639
Speaker 1: had it in for him, basically since the jump when

1658
01:32:07,640 --> 01:32:09,400
Speaker 1: he released Piano Man.

1659
01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:12,400
Speaker 2: In his seminal New York Times profile of Billy Joel

1660
01:32:12,439 --> 01:32:14,479
Speaker 2: from two thousand and two, which we talked about earlier,

1661
01:32:14,520 --> 01:32:16,839
Speaker 2: the great Chuck Clausburan writes that Piano Man.

1662
01:32:16,680 --> 01:32:20,439
Speaker 1: Was both quote Billy's first defining moment as a musician

1663
01:32:20,600 --> 01:32:25,160
Speaker 1: and probably the moment that marginalized him forever. Billy himself

1664
01:32:25,200 --> 01:32:28,519
Speaker 1: would say, I was tagged right after Piano Man. I

1665
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:31,320
Speaker 1: was a balladeer. I didn't write some substance of music.

1666
01:32:31,479 --> 01:32:34,800
Speaker 1: My records were overproduced. I played too many ballads. Oh

1667
01:32:34,840 --> 01:32:38,240
Speaker 1: and of course my favorite he studied the piano. I

1668
01:32:38,280 --> 01:32:40,639
Speaker 1: had never realized that one of the prerequisites for being

1669
01:32:40,680 --> 01:32:43,479
Speaker 1: critically acclaimed was not knowing how to play your instrument.

1670
01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:47,840
Speaker 1: That stuff bothered me for a long time, and we

1671
01:32:47,880 --> 01:32:49,759
Speaker 1: touched on this earlier. There were some who took offense

1672
01:32:49,800 --> 01:32:52,400
Speaker 1: to what they believed to be a condescending attitude towards

1673
01:32:52,400 --> 01:32:55,000
Speaker 1: the patrons of the bar and Piano Man. And this,

1674
01:32:55,120 --> 01:32:57,839
Speaker 1: of course wasn't helped by his follow up single, The Entertainer,

1675
01:32:57,840 --> 01:33:01,040
Speaker 1: which we also touched on earlier, which sniper various aspects

1676
01:33:01,080 --> 01:33:04,200
Speaker 1: of the record business. As Billy himself would later note,

1677
01:33:04,240 --> 01:33:07,160
Speaker 1: it caused DJs to think, what's this guy bitching about?

1678
01:33:07,439 --> 01:33:09,320
Speaker 1: He just had a hit with Piano Man, and already

1679
01:33:09,320 --> 01:33:13,160
Speaker 1: he's bitching about being a rock star. The criticism would

1680
01:33:13,160 --> 01:33:18,200
Speaker 1: be correct, The criticism would become more pointed with time.

1681
01:33:19,120 --> 01:33:23,639
Speaker 1: Billy's been pretty constantly accused of being a phony. As

1682
01:33:23,760 --> 01:33:27,599
Speaker 1: Nick Palmgarten wrote in his incredible twenty fourteen New Yorker

1683
01:33:27,640 --> 01:33:31,519
Speaker 1: piece The thirty three Hit Wonder, quote one slam on

1684
01:33:31,640 --> 01:33:34,040
Speaker 1: him used to be that he was derivative aping other

1685
01:33:34,200 --> 01:33:37,960
Speaker 1: voices or styles or else mercenary, a soul of craftsman,

1686
01:33:38,040 --> 01:33:42,520
Speaker 1: exploiting his technical melodic agility to churn out insidious confection

1687
01:33:42,760 --> 01:33:44,360
Speaker 1: for the purposes of making money.

1688
01:33:45,400 --> 01:33:50,000
Speaker 2: Kind of a bogus criticism is called being a musician. Right, yeah,

1689
01:33:50,040 --> 01:33:52,599
Speaker 2: I don't know that's I don't buy that.

1690
01:33:53,000 --> 01:33:56,280
Speaker 1: Billy responded with an excellent point during a Rock and

1691
01:33:56,360 --> 01:33:59,240
Speaker 1: Roll Hall of Fame speech in nineteen ninety nine, shortly

1692
01:33:59,240 --> 01:34:03,800
Speaker 1: after being in did by friggin Ray Charles, which is

1693
01:34:03,880 --> 01:34:08,479
Speaker 1: pretty cool, Yeah, he said, I've been referred to as derivative. Well,

1694
01:34:08,479 --> 01:34:11,920
Speaker 1: I'm damn guilty. I'm derivative as hell. He went on

1695
01:34:11,960 --> 01:34:14,160
Speaker 1: to say that if the Hall of Fame just qualified

1696
01:34:14,200 --> 01:34:17,439
Speaker 1: candidates on the basis of being derivative, quote, there wouldn't

1697
01:34:17,439 --> 01:34:18,679
Speaker 1: be any white people here.

1698
01:34:20,479 --> 01:34:22,040
Speaker 2: He said it on stage at the Rock and Roll

1699
01:34:22,080 --> 01:34:22,559
Speaker 2: Hall of Fame.

1700
01:34:22,640 --> 01:34:26,600
Speaker 1: It's it's good for him, right, Yeah. Other people just

1701
01:34:26,640 --> 01:34:30,240
Speaker 1: think Billy Joel's laying slick and glib. His work was

1702
01:34:30,280 --> 01:34:34,280
Speaker 1: described as quote self dramatizing kitch by writer Dave Marsh

1703
01:34:34,360 --> 01:34:36,800
Speaker 1: and Billy himself was labeled as quote a force of

1704
01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:40,600
Speaker 1: nature and bad taste by the self appointed Dean of

1705
01:34:40,720 --> 01:34:43,720
Speaker 1: rock critics, Robert Chris Goowe. I hate Robert christ Gow

1706
01:34:46,479 --> 01:34:48,040
Speaker 1: not just because I a Joel head.

1707
01:34:48,920 --> 01:34:51,720
Speaker 2: I just I don't. I don't uh whatever, man, he

1708
01:34:51,760 --> 01:34:55,040
Speaker 2: writes Schmaltz, like, let him write Schmaltz, let him let

1709
01:34:55,080 --> 01:34:58,759
Speaker 2: him play piano. I don't care. But for some reason

1710
01:34:58,760 --> 01:35:01,000
Speaker 2: to me, it seems like, yeah, I do think he

1711
01:35:01,040 --> 01:35:03,479
Speaker 2: got unfairly tagged, and I'm hard pressed to say why.

1712
01:35:03,760 --> 01:35:07,400
Speaker 2: Like they were just jealous that he was banging supermodels

1713
01:35:07,400 --> 01:35:09,599
Speaker 2: looking the way he did is what it was before that.

1714
01:35:09,680 --> 01:35:10,760
Speaker 2: It was long before that.

1715
01:35:11,560 --> 01:35:14,680
Speaker 1: A nineteen seventy eight New York Times writer reviewed his

1716
01:35:14,720 --> 01:35:19,200
Speaker 1: live concert by sniffing, mister Joel's concert reaffirmed his stature

1717
01:35:19,240 --> 01:35:22,920
Speaker 1: as a craftsman like pop composer, but he falls short

1718
01:35:23,040 --> 01:35:30,639
Speaker 1: of the commuted passion of great rock. I mean, I'm

1719
01:35:30,640 --> 01:35:33,320
Speaker 1: gonna once again borrow from Chuck Closterman's incredible piece in

1720
01:35:33,320 --> 01:35:36,160
Speaker 1: which he argues that Bruce Springsteen's lines from Born to

1721
01:35:36,240 --> 01:35:40,040
Speaker 1: Run weren't any less puerile than Billy's words, and these

1722
01:35:40,040 --> 01:35:43,400
Speaker 1: sex pistols punk posturing wasn't any more authentic than.

1723
01:35:43,280 --> 01:35:44,719
Speaker 2: Billy's rock star poses.

1724
01:35:45,479 --> 01:35:48,920
Speaker 1: True, But as Klosterman writes, guys like Bruce Springsteen and

1725
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:52,200
Speaker 1: Johnny Rodden have a default credibility that Joel will never

1726
01:35:52,240 --> 01:35:55,400
Speaker 1: be granted. And it's not just because he took piano lessons.

1727
01:35:55,880 --> 01:35:58,960
Speaker 1: The problem is that Joel never seemed cool, even among

1728
01:35:59,000 --> 01:36:01,280
Speaker 1: the people who like him. He's not cool in the

1729
01:36:01,320 --> 01:36:04,599
Speaker 1: conventional sense like James Dean, or in the self destructive

1730
01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:07,200
Speaker 1: sense like Keith Richards, nor is he cool in the

1731
01:36:07,280 --> 01:36:11,000
Speaker 1: Kitchie campy He's so uncool, he's cool way like Neil Diamond.

1732
01:36:11,600 --> 01:36:13,559
Speaker 1: The bottom line is that it's never cool to look

1733
01:36:13,600 --> 01:36:17,680
Speaker 1: like you're trying. And Joel tries really, really.

1734
01:36:17,600 --> 01:36:23,200
Speaker 2: Hard, that's the yeah, exactly.

1735
01:36:23,800 --> 01:36:27,320
Speaker 1: And Clusterman argues he tries hard because he's not content

1736
01:36:27,360 --> 01:36:31,120
Speaker 1: with being merely a commercial success. He deeply wants the

1737
01:36:31,160 --> 01:36:34,880
Speaker 1: respect that he feels he's been denied by the rock establishment,

1738
01:36:35,040 --> 01:36:37,960
Speaker 1: and that's that's not a good look. And of course,

1739
01:36:38,040 --> 01:36:40,920
Speaker 1: Billy Joel did himself zero favors by going on stage

1740
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:44,240
Speaker 1: at concerts and reading his bad reviews in front of

1741
01:36:44,360 --> 01:36:47,600
Speaker 1: rabid crowds before angrily ripping them up and trashing the

1742
01:36:47,640 --> 01:36:48,920
Speaker 1: writers by name.

1743
01:36:50,120 --> 01:36:54,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, come on, dude, Like living well is

1744
01:36:54,360 --> 01:36:58,840
Speaker 2: the best of revenge, right, Like shut up. That's the thing.

1745
01:36:58,880 --> 01:37:00,880
Speaker 2: I think. The thing that really bothers me is like

1746
01:37:01,080 --> 01:37:08,559
Speaker 2: he is vexed to the point of not becoming sympathetic anymore. Like, yeah,

1747
01:37:08,880 --> 01:37:12,519
Speaker 2: he has a legitimate gripe with everything that he kind

1748
01:37:12,520 --> 01:37:16,840
Speaker 2: of does, but like, shut up, dude, Like this is

1749
01:37:16,920 --> 01:37:19,800
Speaker 2: the world in which you live, and this is the

1750
01:37:19,840 --> 01:37:23,599
Speaker 2: business we've chosen, Like come on, man, I don't know.

1751
01:37:23,880 --> 01:37:26,240
Speaker 2: He would sometimes call critics up on the phone and

1752
01:37:26,320 --> 01:37:29,920
Speaker 2: yell at them personally and say things like you can't

1753
01:37:29,960 --> 01:37:33,679
Speaker 2: know what I was thinking when I was writing that song. Yeah,

1754
01:37:33,760 --> 01:37:36,400
Speaker 2: I mean, in so many ways he's he's kind of

1755
01:37:36,520 --> 01:37:40,240
Speaker 2: like that's like stand behavior, you know, he's like an

1756
01:37:40,760 --> 01:37:44,920
Speaker 2: He's like the er Stan just for himself, like personally

1757
01:37:44,960 --> 01:37:51,000
Speaker 2: attacking critics that he he disagrees with. Robert Chrisky I

1758
01:37:51,120 --> 01:37:53,160
Speaker 2: was further quoted as saying if he wanted to be

1759
01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:56,200
Speaker 2: a humble tunesmith, a piano man, if you will, he

1760
01:37:56,240 --> 01:37:58,599
Speaker 2: would be a lot better off. But he's not content

1761
01:37:58,680 --> 01:37:58,920
Speaker 2: with that.

1762
01:37:59,439 --> 01:38:02,960
Speaker 1: He wants some grander and that pretentious side infects not

1763
01:38:03,040 --> 01:38:06,280
Speaker 1: only his bad and mediocre work, but also his best work.

1764
01:38:06,960 --> 01:38:09,760
Speaker 1: He and Don Henley are really notable for how resentful

1765
01:38:09,800 --> 01:38:12,559
Speaker 1: they are about their lack of respect. You don't catch

1766
01:38:12,560 --> 01:38:15,559
Speaker 1: Celine Dion complaining about a lack of critical respect, and

1767
01:38:15,600 --> 01:38:18,519
Speaker 1: she's a lot worse than Billy Joel, but she doesn't care.

1768
01:38:19,320 --> 01:38:22,880
Speaker 1: Billy Joel cares deeply about that respect and he wants

1769
01:38:22,880 --> 01:38:23,479
Speaker 1: it bad.

1770
01:38:24,120 --> 01:38:26,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. Man, I mean, if you're getting compared to Don Henley,

1771
01:38:26,200 --> 01:38:27,320
Speaker 2: maybe check your attitude.

1772
01:38:27,640 --> 01:38:32,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, in many ways, Billy Joel still doesn't have that

1773
01:38:32,960 --> 01:38:37,479
Speaker 1: critical bona fides. Even as late as two thousand and nine,

1774
01:38:37,840 --> 01:38:41,000
Speaker 1: the writer Ron Rosenbaum wrote a piece for Slate called

1775
01:38:41,280 --> 01:38:45,840
Speaker 1: the worst Pop Singer Ever, and It's all about Billy Joel.

1776
01:38:46,280 --> 01:38:49,920
Speaker 1: The even handed assessment includes lines like he was terrible,

1777
01:38:50,080 --> 01:38:54,879
Speaker 1: he is terrible, he always will be terrible, anadyne, sappy, superficial, derivative,

1778
01:38:54,920 --> 01:38:59,920
Speaker 1: fraudulently rebellious. Billy Joel's music elevates self aggrandizing, self pitying,

1779
01:39:00,040 --> 01:39:01,960
Speaker 1: contempt for others into.

1780
01:39:01,680 --> 01:39:06,160
Speaker 2: Its own new and awful genre mock rock. Yeah, man,

1781
01:39:06,200 --> 01:39:10,080
Speaker 2: it's complicated. You know, we're all weird to be people

1782
01:39:10,080 --> 01:39:14,679
Speaker 2: in our own way, you know. And I think knowing

1783
01:39:14,720 --> 01:39:18,200
Speaker 2: so much of his background, like descended from Holocaust survivors,

1784
01:39:18,240 --> 01:39:20,759
Speaker 2: his parents left, his family, got tired with a bunch

1785
01:39:20,760 --> 01:39:24,320
Speaker 2: of anti Semitism, He had learned how to box all

1786
01:39:24,400 --> 01:39:27,360
Speaker 2: his record first records bombed, like. He has a lot

1787
01:39:27,360 --> 01:39:32,760
Speaker 2: of legitimate grievances, but he is also, unfortunately, seems to

1788
01:39:32,800 --> 01:39:35,880
Speaker 2: be obsessed with the fact that he has a lot

1789
01:39:35,920 --> 01:39:39,639
Speaker 2: of legitimate grievances and rather than shouldering it in any

1790
01:39:39,760 --> 01:39:43,560
Speaker 2: kind of world weary way. He's just become this like belligerent,

1791
01:39:45,040 --> 01:39:49,160
Speaker 2: red assed baby, just lashing out at people when it's like, yeah, dude,

1792
01:39:49,880 --> 01:39:52,800
Speaker 2: you know you hired your insane ex wife's brother to

1793
01:39:52,800 --> 01:39:55,439
Speaker 2: be your manager, Like you walked into you stepped on

1794
01:39:55,479 --> 01:39:57,799
Speaker 2: the brake knowing what was going to happen at that point.

1795
01:39:57,920 --> 01:39:59,840
Speaker 2: Like and just like a lot of this stuff where

1796
01:39:59,880 --> 01:40:03,120
Speaker 2: he's like he's like, wow, I may mean they missed

1797
01:40:03,160 --> 01:40:05,120
Speaker 2: up my record, Like yeah, it is the music industry.

1798
01:40:05,120 --> 01:40:08,599
Speaker 2: I don't know what do you want? What do you want?

1799
01:40:08,640 --> 01:40:10,960
Speaker 2: Do you want people to write only nice things about you?

1800
01:40:11,479 --> 01:40:13,720
Speaker 2: I've been a journalist, writer, I've been a writer for

1801
01:40:13,720 --> 01:40:16,479
Speaker 2: eleven years, and I stopped reading the comments long ago.

1802
01:40:16,600 --> 01:40:19,639
Speaker 2: You just don't read them. Just know what you're making

1803
01:40:19,720 --> 01:40:25,360
Speaker 2: enough money to not what is that obsession with? Good Lord?

1804
01:40:26,640 --> 01:40:28,960
Speaker 1: Well, on some level, Billy might even agree with some

1805
01:40:29,040 --> 01:40:31,599
Speaker 1: of these harsh assessments, because in a lot of ways,

1806
01:40:31,600 --> 01:40:34,160
Speaker 1: he's his own worst critic, and that's part of the

1807
01:40:34,160 --> 01:40:37,400
Speaker 1: reason why until very recently, he mostly stayed out of

1808
01:40:37,400 --> 01:40:40,640
Speaker 1: the pop songwriting game. I couldn't be as good as

1809
01:40:40,680 --> 01:40:43,760
Speaker 1: I wanted to be, he told CBS Sunday Morning correspondent

1810
01:40:43,760 --> 01:40:47,160
Speaker 1: Anthony Mason. It was driving me crazy. It was wrecking

1811
01:40:47,160 --> 01:40:49,920
Speaker 1: my personal life too, not being able to be satisfied,

1812
01:40:50,240 --> 01:40:52,400
Speaker 1: and drinking became a problem because of that. To try

1813
01:40:52,439 --> 01:40:55,160
Speaker 1: to drown my frustration with it, I could look at

1814
01:40:55,160 --> 01:40:57,320
Speaker 1: twenty five percent of what I wrote and throw it

1815
01:40:57,360 --> 01:41:01,440
Speaker 1: out and not miss it at all. Pretty high padding average.

1816
01:41:01,840 --> 01:41:04,320
Speaker 1: In the same segment, Billy talked about an interview with

1817
01:41:04,400 --> 01:41:07,720
Speaker 1: Neil Diamond where he said I've forgiven myself for not

1818
01:41:07,760 --> 01:41:12,920
Speaker 1: being Beethoven. Billy doesn't share the sentiment that's my problem.

1819
01:41:12,960 --> 01:41:16,440
Speaker 1: He says, I've never forgiven myself for not being Beethoven.

1820
01:41:17,600 --> 01:41:18,519
Speaker 2: Okay, Bud.

1821
01:41:20,160 --> 01:41:22,639
Speaker 1: That he claims to have never stopped writing music, has

1822
01:41:22,680 --> 01:41:25,639
Speaker 1: output since nineteen ninety three's River of Dreams has been

1823
01:41:25,680 --> 01:41:30,240
Speaker 1: famously anemic. There's a two thousand and one album of

1824
01:41:30,240 --> 01:41:34,759
Speaker 1: classical compositions called Fantasies and Delusions, played by Korean pianist

1825
01:41:34,840 --> 01:41:38,280
Speaker 1: Young Key Jew. There's a song called All My Life,

1826
01:41:38,360 --> 01:41:41,400
Speaker 1: which was released as a promotional single on Valentine's Day

1827
01:41:41,439 --> 01:41:43,559
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven. That's a gift for then wife

1828
01:41:43,680 --> 01:41:47,400
Speaker 1: Katie Lee. And then there's a song called Christmas in Fallujah,

1829
01:41:47,520 --> 01:41:49,559
Speaker 1: also released in two thousand and seven and sung by

1830
01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:53,120
Speaker 1: an unknown singer named Cass Dylan. I think it was

1831
01:41:53,160 --> 01:41:56,840
Speaker 1: written in response to veterans who appreciated what he had

1832
01:41:56,880 --> 01:42:02,880
Speaker 1: done for Vietnam vets by writing good morning Vietnam, good night, saigone,

1833
01:42:03,880 --> 01:42:04,559
Speaker 1: and so he.

1834
01:42:04,520 --> 01:42:07,519
Speaker 2: Did the same for Iraq vets. You think that helped?

1835
01:42:08,600 --> 01:42:11,559
Speaker 1: I don't know. He didn't sing it himself because he

1836
01:42:11,680 --> 01:42:16,519
Speaker 1: felt that he needed a young voice to impart the message,

1837
01:42:16,600 --> 01:42:19,120
Speaker 1: you know, as a young a young vet.

1838
01:42:19,560 --> 01:42:24,960
Speaker 2: So yeah, did that work? I will say, you know what,

1839
01:42:26,080 --> 01:42:27,120
Speaker 2: those two songs.

1840
01:42:27,479 --> 01:42:30,000
Speaker 1: One of them was purely designed as a gift for

1841
01:42:30,080 --> 01:42:33,880
Speaker 1: his then wife, and then the other one was meant

1842
01:42:33,960 --> 01:42:36,200
Speaker 1: to give hope to veterans.

1843
01:42:36,520 --> 01:42:38,519
Speaker 2: I would say that. I mean, maybe if you donated

1844
01:42:38,520 --> 01:42:40,559
Speaker 2: your publishing from it to like the VA I think

1845
01:42:40,560 --> 01:42:41,800
Speaker 2: he might have. I think he might have. I think

1846
01:42:41,840 --> 01:42:45,200
Speaker 2: he actually kaid good. Then I withdraw my snark, but yeah,

1847
01:42:45,240 --> 01:42:48,000
Speaker 2: that that album of classical pieces that he didn't play on,

1848
01:42:48,600 --> 01:42:52,000
Speaker 2: that song that he didn't sing on, and the song

1849
01:42:52,080 --> 01:42:55,000
Speaker 2: that he sang for his wife at the time. That's

1850
01:42:55,479 --> 01:42:58,559
Speaker 2: basically the sum total of Billy's artistic output in the

1851
01:42:58,600 --> 01:43:02,160
Speaker 2: last thirty one years. There were other odds and ends.

1852
01:43:02,200 --> 01:43:05,000
Speaker 1: There were covers on a Paul McCartney tribute album, and

1853
01:43:05,080 --> 01:43:06,679
Speaker 1: I think he was on one of the Tony Bennet's

1854
01:43:06,720 --> 01:43:07,479
Speaker 1: duet CDs.

1855
01:43:07,560 --> 01:43:08,719
Speaker 2: But that's it.

1856
01:43:09,680 --> 01:43:12,160
Speaker 1: And among the many people to give him grief about

1857
01:43:12,160 --> 01:43:15,400
Speaker 1: this is his one time touring partner and current friendemy

1858
01:43:15,800 --> 01:43:19,639
Speaker 1: rival Elton John Billy would say over the years, Elton

1859
01:43:19,640 --> 01:43:21,520
Speaker 1: would say why don't you make more albums?

1860
01:43:21,720 --> 01:43:27,120
Speaker 2: And I'd say, why don't you make less sickburn? Yeah yeah.

1861
01:43:27,479 --> 01:43:29,840
Speaker 1: Billy says that fear isn't the thing that's keeping him

1862
01:43:29,880 --> 01:43:33,960
Speaker 1: from getting back to pop songwriting. I don't feel like

1863
01:43:34,000 --> 01:43:36,920
Speaker 1: I have anything to prove anymore. What I do have

1864
01:43:37,000 --> 01:43:40,120
Speaker 1: at this point is a horror of celebrity. It's easier

1865
01:43:40,160 --> 01:43:42,679
Speaker 1: to write more personal stuff when you're not as well known.

1866
01:43:44,120 --> 01:43:46,160
Speaker 1: And once he became famous, he told The New Yorker,

1867
01:43:46,280 --> 01:43:49,400
Speaker 1: you can't create something that's an independent entity made out

1868
01:43:49,439 --> 01:43:52,360
Speaker 1: of whole cloth. They know who you're in a relationship with,

1869
01:43:52,479 --> 01:43:55,640
Speaker 1: what your past is. They tend to draw their own conclusions.

1870
01:43:56,040 --> 01:43:58,679
Speaker 1: Your image becomes more powerful than the things you create.

1871
01:43:59,160 --> 01:44:00,960
Speaker 1: I was seeing it begin happened when I was doing

1872
01:44:01,040 --> 01:44:04,000
Speaker 1: River of Dreams back in nineteen ninety three. I'd gone

1873
01:44:04,000 --> 01:44:06,720
Speaker 1: through the celebrity craziness with Christy's wife at the time,

1874
01:44:06,800 --> 01:44:09,760
Speaker 1: Christy Brinkley and the divorce, I felt like there was

1875
01:44:09,760 --> 01:44:14,800
Speaker 1: a proctoscope up my butt. Everybody interrogating, analyzing everything I

1876
01:44:14,800 --> 01:44:17,839
Speaker 1: wrote was fraught with meanings, and I said, wait a minute,

1877
01:44:17,920 --> 01:44:20,000
Speaker 1: I don't want to rip myself open and let everyone

1878
01:44:20,040 --> 01:44:20,719
Speaker 1: see everything.

1879
01:44:20,960 --> 01:44:24,320
Speaker 2: I was the longer comfortable enough. I gave you enough. Yeah,

1880
01:44:24,360 --> 01:44:26,519
Speaker 2: And he winks, like, how much does he make from

1881
01:44:26,520 --> 01:44:30,120
Speaker 2: his residency? I don't. I don't know. I don't want

1882
01:44:30,160 --> 01:44:33,640
Speaker 2: to know. Yeah, I mean, I get it, dude, you

1883
01:44:33,640 --> 01:44:36,479
Speaker 2: don't like people saying mean things about you, so you

1884
01:44:36,640 --> 01:44:39,800
Speaker 2: just go and play a show every month to people

1885
01:44:39,800 --> 01:44:41,960
Speaker 2: who would never say mean things about you. Like, fine,

1886
01:44:42,040 --> 01:44:45,040
Speaker 2: that's a perfectly fine way to retire. Much has been

1887
01:44:45,040 --> 01:44:47,040
Speaker 2: made about the fact that Billy Moore or Less Abandoned

1888
01:44:47,040 --> 01:44:49,800
Speaker 2: Life is an active pop star slash artist following his

1889
01:44:49,840 --> 01:44:52,240
Speaker 2: split from Christy Brinkley after the release of River of

1890
01:44:52,320 --> 01:44:56,280
Speaker 2: Dreams in nineteen ninety three. Billy has commented on this himself, saying,

1891
01:44:56,520 --> 01:44:58,559
Speaker 2: Christy likes to joke that the end of the marriage

1892
01:44:58,560 --> 01:45:01,360
Speaker 2: spelled out the end of my songwriting career. At least

1893
01:45:01,520 --> 01:45:04,680
Speaker 2: I think it's a joke to Joel Heads, Christy is

1894
01:45:04,720 --> 01:45:08,320
Speaker 2: generally portrayed as the love of his life. We are

1895
01:45:08,320 --> 01:45:10,800
Speaker 2: not in any position to comment on that, but there

1896
01:45:10,880 --> 01:45:12,760
Speaker 2: is one story that we'd like to share with you.

1897
01:45:13,240 --> 01:45:15,960
Speaker 2: Christy lived in Paris during the late seventies, the period

1898
01:45:16,000 --> 01:45:18,599
Speaker 2: when Billy's star was on the rise. She knew nothing

1899
01:45:18,640 --> 01:45:21,040
Speaker 2: of him or his music when they first crossed paths

1900
01:45:21,080 --> 01:45:23,800
Speaker 2: at the aforementioned piano bar in Saint Bart's in the

1901
01:45:23,840 --> 01:45:26,880
Speaker 2: early eighties. In fact, Joey's referred to him as Joe

1902
01:45:27,520 --> 01:45:30,439
Speaker 2: because she felt he looked like more of a Joe

1903
01:45:30,479 --> 01:45:33,679
Speaker 2: than a Billy or even a Bill. The only piece

1904
01:45:33,680 --> 01:45:35,920
Speaker 2: of his music that she knew was the whistling intro

1905
01:45:36,040 --> 01:45:39,679
Speaker 2: of the Stranger, a haunting piece of music that serves

1906
01:45:39,720 --> 01:45:42,519
Speaker 2: as a prelude to a track about the Jungian concept

1907
01:45:42,520 --> 01:45:45,200
Speaker 2: of the shadow personnel or the side of ourselves we

1908
01:45:45,320 --> 01:45:48,320
Speaker 2: keep hitting. Christy, meanwhile, only knew it because it was

1909
01:45:48,439 --> 01:45:50,800
Speaker 2: used by a Parisian radio station as the intro to

1910
01:45:50,840 --> 01:45:54,559
Speaker 2: their evening traffic report That is a hilariously tragic Billy

1911
01:45:54,640 --> 01:45:57,600
Speaker 2: Joel image, unaware Billy had written it for her, It

1912
01:45:57,640 --> 01:46:00,360
Speaker 2: became synonymous with the sound of Paris at night makes

1913
01:46:00,400 --> 01:46:01,840
Speaker 2: you think about what you put out in the world

1914
01:46:01,920 --> 01:46:05,000
Speaker 2: and who may be tuned into your frequency. But despite

1915
01:46:05,000 --> 01:46:08,440
Speaker 2: the romantic take, Billy was likely veering towards commercial abdication

1916
01:46:08,640 --> 01:46:11,120
Speaker 2: even before they're split. The last track on River of

1917
01:46:11,200 --> 01:46:14,120
Speaker 2: Dreams is called famous Last Words, and Joel Heads the

1918
01:46:14,120 --> 01:46:16,400
Speaker 2: world over have parsed its meaning for thirty one years.

1919
01:46:16,960 --> 01:46:18,679
Speaker 2: More than just the end of an album, It seems

1920
01:46:18,680 --> 01:46:21,400
Speaker 2: like a very literal sign off. These are the last

1921
01:46:21,400 --> 01:46:23,439
Speaker 2: words I have to say. That's why it took so

1922
01:46:23,479 --> 01:46:26,400
Speaker 2: long to write. There will be other words some other day.

1923
01:46:26,720 --> 01:46:29,040
Speaker 2: Ain't that the story of my life? These are the

1924
01:46:29,080 --> 01:46:31,920
Speaker 2: last words I have to say before another age goes by,

1925
01:46:32,520 --> 01:46:35,000
Speaker 2: with all those other songs I have to play, Ain't

1926
01:46:35,000 --> 01:46:38,360
Speaker 2: that the story of my life? Getting in one last

1927
01:46:38,400 --> 01:46:39,599
Speaker 2: bitch on record?

1928
01:46:43,040 --> 01:46:45,000
Speaker 1: Well, it's fair to say that Billy went through a

1929
01:46:45,000 --> 01:46:46,840
Speaker 1: bit of a rough patch in the late nineties and

1930
01:46:46,920 --> 01:46:50,320
Speaker 1: early two thousands, since he struggled with substance abuse, struggled

1931
01:46:50,320 --> 01:46:54,880
Speaker 1: to find happiness, struggled with romantic relationships, and just generally struggled.

1932
01:46:55,640 --> 01:46:58,479
Speaker 1: This period was vividly depicted in Chuck Klausterman's New York

1933
01:46:58,520 --> 01:47:01,920
Speaker 1: Times profile, which he publed expanded form and the best

1934
01:47:01,960 --> 01:47:04,640
Speaker 1: selling books Sex, Drugs and Cocoa Puffs, one of my

1935
01:47:04,640 --> 01:47:06,160
Speaker 1: favorite books, one of the books that maybe want to

1936
01:47:06,160 --> 01:47:06,519
Speaker 1: be a writer.

1937
01:47:06,600 --> 01:47:10,120
Speaker 2: Honestly, I love that book. Same yeah, Billy trying to

1938
01:47:10,120 --> 01:47:14,080
Speaker 2: work on that ever since. And I got to I

1939
01:47:14,120 --> 01:47:16,799
Speaker 2: got to meet him, actually signed my my my copy

1940
01:47:16,800 --> 01:47:20,000
Speaker 2: at one of the Barnes and Noble things in Union Square.

1941
01:47:20,160 --> 01:47:26,639
Speaker 2: He's very kind, good and here I am. Billy would

1942
01:47:26,640 --> 01:47:29,519
Speaker 2: come to loathe this profile, but I actually think it

1943
01:47:29,560 --> 01:47:32,639
Speaker 2: went a long way and rehabbing his reputation from PC

1944
01:47:32,840 --> 01:47:37,200
Speaker 2: pretentious tunsmith to torture genius, a sort of piano playing

1945
01:47:37,240 --> 01:47:38,799
Speaker 2: Norma Desmond of Long Island.

1946
01:47:39,439 --> 01:47:43,640
Speaker 1: Klosterman writes, whatever subject we touch on, the conversation.

1947
01:47:43,200 --> 01:47:47,400
Speaker 2: Inevitably spirals back to the same thing. Women. He says,

1948
01:47:47,479 --> 01:47:49,280
Speaker 2: the happiest times of my life are when.

1949
01:47:49,160 --> 01:47:51,760
Speaker 1: My relationships were going well, when I was in love

1950
01:47:51,800 --> 01:47:54,439
Speaker 1: with someone and someone was loving me. But in my

1951
01:47:54,520 --> 01:47:57,080
Speaker 1: whole life, I haven't met the person I can sustain

1952
01:47:57,160 --> 01:48:00,800
Speaker 1: a relationship with yet, So I'm dis content about that.

1953
01:48:01,280 --> 01:48:03,840
Speaker 2: I'm angry with myself. I have regrets.

1954
01:48:04,640 --> 01:48:07,600
Speaker 1: Our conversation continues in this vein for most of the afternoon,

1955
01:48:07,960 --> 01:48:10,360
Speaker 1: and after a while I find myself in the peculiar

1956
01:48:10,400 --> 01:48:13,479
Speaker 1: position of trying to make Billy Joel feel better. I

1957
01:48:13,520 --> 01:48:15,320
Speaker 1: point out that many things in his life have gone

1958
01:48:15,320 --> 01:48:18,040
Speaker 1: amazingly well. I remind him that he's in the rock

1959
01:48:18,080 --> 01:48:20,680
Speaker 1: and roll Hall of Fame. That's a cold comfort. At

1960
01:48:20,680 --> 01:48:22,719
Speaker 1: the end of the day, he tells me, you can't

1961
01:48:22,760 --> 01:48:24,559
Speaker 1: go home to the rock and roll Hall of Fame.

1962
01:48:24,720 --> 01:48:26,719
Speaker 1: You don't sleep with the rock and roll Hall of Fame,

1963
01:48:26,960 --> 01:48:28,680
Speaker 1: you don't get hugged by the rock and roll Hall

1964
01:48:28,720 --> 01:48:30,680
Speaker 1: of Fame, and he don't have children with the rock

1965
01:48:30,680 --> 01:48:33,719
Speaker 1: and roll Hall of fame. I want when everybody else wants,

1966
01:48:33,920 --> 01:48:36,120
Speaker 1: to love and to be loved and to have a family.

1967
01:48:36,800 --> 01:48:39,200
Speaker 2: Being in love was always the most important thing in

1968
01:48:39,200 --> 01:48:40,400
Speaker 2: my life.

1969
01:48:40,520 --> 01:48:44,080
Speaker 1: As Clousterman continues, this sentiment is so universal that it's

1970
01:48:44,120 --> 01:48:44,679
Speaker 1: a cliche.

1971
01:48:45,479 --> 01:48:47,280
Speaker 2: But that's not a criticism.

1972
01:48:47,439 --> 01:48:49,920
Speaker 1: In fact, that's probably why Joel's be able to connect

1973
01:48:49,920 --> 01:48:53,280
Speaker 1: with people in a way that even he doesn't completely realize.

1974
01:48:53,360 --> 01:48:57,799
Speaker 1: He musically amplifies mainstream depression. He never tried to invent

1975
01:48:57,840 --> 01:49:00,880
Speaker 1: a new way to be sad. Of course, is the

1976
01:49:00,880 --> 01:49:04,800
Speaker 1: paradox Joel's art is defined by his life, and his

1977
01:49:04,880 --> 01:49:08,360
Speaker 1: best music is his most morose. Thus he can achieve

1978
01:49:08,400 --> 01:49:12,519
Speaker 1: greatness only through despair. But for Joel at fifty three,

1979
01:49:12,560 --> 01:49:15,719
Speaker 1: at the time, that artistic transference seems to be failing.

1980
01:49:16,360 --> 01:49:20,120
Speaker 1: There was a time when sadness spawned genius. Now it

1981
01:49:20,240 --> 01:49:23,240
Speaker 1: just reminds him that he's alone. He talks like a

1982
01:49:23,240 --> 01:49:26,560
Speaker 1: guy who's conquered every goal he dreamed about as a teenager,

1983
01:49:27,439 --> 01:49:30,680
Speaker 1: only to discover that those victories have absolutely nothing to

1984
01:49:30,800 --> 01:49:32,080
Speaker 1: do with satisfaction.

1985
01:49:32,720 --> 01:49:37,439
Speaker 2: Who what do you think of that? Incisive? Yeah, it's

1986
01:49:37,439 --> 01:49:41,719
Speaker 2: an incredible piece. Yeah, I know, thankfully.

1987
01:49:41,760 --> 01:49:45,519
Speaker 1: Though, in recent years, Billy's life seems though stabilized. Following

1988
01:49:45,600 --> 01:49:48,639
Speaker 1: a relatively brief marriage to a woman named Katie Lee,

1989
01:49:48,680 --> 01:49:51,759
Speaker 1: who I believe was roughly the same age as Billy's

1990
01:49:51,800 --> 01:49:55,439
Speaker 1: daughter Alexa, He's now happily married to a former risk

1991
01:49:55,520 --> 01:49:59,360
Speaker 1: manager at Morgan Stanley named Alexis Roderick, whom he.

1992
01:49:59,360 --> 01:50:02,080
Speaker 2: Is nicknamed a rod.

1993
01:50:03,000 --> 01:50:06,120
Speaker 1: So Long Island, and it's fitting because they met at

1994
01:50:06,120 --> 01:50:08,880
Speaker 1: a Long Island restaurant in two thousand and nine while

1995
01:50:08,880 --> 01:50:11,840
Speaker 1: they were both out with their respective friends. He got

1996
01:50:11,920 --> 01:50:14,639
Speaker 1: her number and then called her moments later from across

1997
01:50:14,760 --> 01:50:20,800
Speaker 1: the restaurant asking for a ride home. She drove him

1998
01:50:20,840 --> 01:50:23,200
Speaker 1: back to his house, where he asked her if she

1999
01:50:23,240 --> 01:50:24,240
Speaker 1: wanted to hear him play.

2000
01:50:25,160 --> 01:50:25,920
Speaker 2: She said no.

2001
01:50:27,120 --> 01:50:31,360
Speaker 1: I'm sure that scored her major points with him. He

2002
01:50:31,400 --> 01:50:35,240
Speaker 1: played anyway, showing off a rockmaninov concerto, which is almost

2003
01:50:35,320 --> 01:50:38,760
Speaker 1: certainly a reference to a comical seduction scene in the

2004
01:50:38,800 --> 01:50:42,479
Speaker 1: Marilyn Monroe movie The Seven Year Itch. He's such a cornball,

2005
01:50:42,520 --> 01:50:46,320
Speaker 1: I love it. They got married in twenty fifteen and

2006
01:50:46,400 --> 01:50:49,400
Speaker 1: lived together in a massive Long Island estate that once

2007
01:50:49,439 --> 01:50:53,120
Speaker 1: belonged to Rosalind Walker, a socialite who'd been one of

2008
01:50:53,120 --> 01:50:55,880
Speaker 1: the models for Rosie the Riveter, which I'm sure he

2009
01:50:55,920 --> 01:50:58,320
Speaker 1: loves because he's a huge World War two in history.

2010
01:50:58,320 --> 01:51:01,720
Speaker 1: BUFFI a walk around the house and make believe I

2011
01:51:01,760 --> 01:51:05,400
Speaker 1: don't live here, Billy told The New Yorker. I think, Wow,

2012
01:51:05,520 --> 01:51:08,840
Speaker 1: this must be a cool place to live. I find

2013
01:51:08,880 --> 01:51:13,559
Speaker 1: out adorable. Yeah kid from a Levittown track house.

2014
01:51:13,680 --> 01:51:15,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2015
01:51:15,160 --> 01:51:17,959
Speaker 1: In his backyard was a tennis court that he eventually

2016
01:51:17,960 --> 01:51:22,439
Speaker 1: transformed into a helipad for many years. That was his

2017
01:51:22,439 --> 01:51:25,439
Speaker 1: point of departure for his ten year monthly Madison Square

2018
01:51:25,520 --> 01:51:28,400
Speaker 1: Garden residency as a helicopter picked him up in the

2019
01:51:28,439 --> 01:51:31,920
Speaker 1: backyard and whisked him above the harbors and neighborhoods immortalized

2020
01:51:31,960 --> 01:51:35,040
Speaker 1: in f Scott fitzgerald novels Door to Door.

2021
01:51:35,360 --> 01:51:37,280
Speaker 2: The journey took him sixteen minutes.

2022
01:51:38,880 --> 01:51:41,200
Speaker 1: In recent years, though, he's opted for the Long Island

2023
01:51:41,240 --> 01:51:44,120
Speaker 1: Railroad after some bumpy flights made him a little jumpy

2024
01:51:44,280 --> 01:51:44,760
Speaker 1: good move.

2025
01:51:46,360 --> 01:51:48,760
Speaker 2: Years ago, Billy quit selling the first few rows of.

2026
01:51:48,680 --> 01:51:51,200
Speaker 1: His concerts because he got sick of seeing bored looking

2027
01:51:51,280 --> 01:51:54,760
Speaker 1: rich people staring back at him as he played. Instead,

2028
01:51:54,960 --> 01:51:57,240
Speaker 1: he sends his crew into the cheap seats just before

2029
01:51:57,280 --> 01:51:59,920
Speaker 1: showtime the handout tickets to those they deem worth.

2030
01:52:00,200 --> 01:52:02,160
Speaker 2: I do love that. Yeah, well they.

2031
01:52:02,200 --> 01:52:04,920
Speaker 1: Usually go to young, attractive women, but I think it's

2032
01:52:04,960 --> 01:52:06,280
Speaker 1: a sweet gesture all the same.

2033
01:52:06,840 --> 01:52:07,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2034
01:52:07,400 --> 01:52:11,200
Speaker 1: The show goes on nearly always concluding with a recitation

2035
01:52:11,320 --> 01:52:13,599
Speaker 1: of his signature song, the one.

2036
01:52:13,479 --> 01:52:18,200
Speaker 2: That started it all, Piano Man. Of course, how could

2037
01:52:18,240 --> 01:52:18,439
Speaker 2: it not.

2038
01:52:18,960 --> 01:52:21,880
Speaker 1: It's like a kid, Billy told Vulture of Piano Man.

2039
01:52:22,400 --> 01:52:24,800
Speaker 1: Sometimes it pisses me off, but I always love it.

2040
01:52:25,400 --> 01:52:30,040
Speaker 2: I wrote the thing you know, and together, all ten

2041
01:52:30,120 --> 01:52:34,000
Speaker 2: thousand plus in Madison Square Garden share a drink, they

2042
01:52:34,040 --> 01:52:39,880
Speaker 2: call loneliness, but it's better than drinking alone. What do

2043
01:52:39,920 --> 01:52:46,960
Speaker 2: you think good stuff? Hmm? I really thought this was

2044
01:52:46,960 --> 01:52:48,880
Speaker 2: going to go the way of Margueritaville for you or

2045
01:52:48,880 --> 01:52:52,599
Speaker 2: an American pie. I'm glad that that uh. I Like

2046
01:52:52,680 --> 01:52:55,840
Speaker 2: you said, man, I have a begrudging I find his

2047
01:52:55,920 --> 01:52:59,800
Speaker 2: personality fascinating, fascinating even when I'm telling him, even though

2048
01:52:59,800 --> 01:53:04,880
Speaker 2: he as a whiney little bitch baby. But you know,

2049
01:53:07,560 --> 01:53:09,360
Speaker 2: what are you gonna do? Aren't we all? At the

2050
01:53:09,439 --> 01:53:11,840
Speaker 2: end of the day, I reckon, I can smell my

2051
01:53:11,880 --> 01:53:15,479
Speaker 2: own That's what. Yeah. I mean. That is the kicker

2052
01:53:15,720 --> 01:53:18,519
Speaker 2: to the Chuck Clauster and piece. If I recall, I'll

2053
01:53:18,560 --> 01:53:19,639
Speaker 2: never be able to see.

2054
01:53:19,479 --> 01:53:22,680
Speaker 1: Billy Joel as cool because all I'll ever see when

2055
01:53:22,720 --> 01:53:24,200
Speaker 1: I see Billy Joel is me.

2056
01:53:30,240 --> 01:53:33,400
Speaker 2: Well. On that note, folks, this has been too much information.

2057
01:53:34,320 --> 01:53:37,200
Speaker 2: I hope you all live a life free of seeing

2058
01:53:37,240 --> 01:53:42,960
Speaker 2: yourself in Billy Joel, not malex Idel. And I'm Jordan Runtog.

2059
01:53:43,479 --> 01:53:50,880
Speaker 2: We'll catch you next time. Too Much Information was a

2060
01:53:50,880 --> 01:53:54,719
Speaker 2: production of iHeartRadio. The show's executive producers are Noel Brown

2061
01:53:54,800 --> 01:53:55,719
Speaker 2: and Jordan Runtog.

2062
01:53:55,920 --> 01:53:58,799
Speaker 1: The show's supervising producer is Michael Alder June.

2063
01:53:59,040 --> 01:54:02,120
Speaker 2: The show was research, written, and hosted by Jordan Rundgg

2064
01:54:02,200 --> 01:54:03,360
Speaker 2: and Alex Heigel.

2065
01:54:03,120 --> 01:54:06,360
Speaker 1: With original music by Seth Applebaum and the Ghost Funk Orchestra.

2066
01:54:06,680 --> 01:54:08,720
Speaker 2: If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave

2067
01:54:08,800 --> 01:54:09,280
Speaker 2: us a review.

2068
01:54:09,560 --> 01:54:13,840
Speaker 1: For more podcasts and iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

2069
01:54:14,080 --> 01:54:17,599
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.