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Speaker 1: Oh my god, Part two. Man, of all the parts

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Speaker 1: that you can have, a second is easily the best.

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Speaker 1: It's always the best, just too, that's the best jobs Aliens. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the Lost World story three. Yeah, the Lost World. All

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Speaker 1: the best ones of the series, all the best ones

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Speaker 1: of this Hall to be Oh my god, would stock Yeah,

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Speaker 1: halloways the sequel is always the best. Super super is Dave.

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Speaker 1: I'm Dave. Dave. Yeah, Hey, Hey, how are you doing.

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Speaker 1: I'm good. I got lunchables. I got lunchables getting delivered.

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Speaker 1: This is this is the country we live in, and

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to eat those lunchables. Get some lunchables. That's

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Speaker 1: that's the only person I know who eats lunchables. But

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Speaker 1: well I never got him as a kid. So this

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Speaker 1: is how I rebel skocking adorable. Yeah, um so uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: obviously we we ended last episode talking about the freedom

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Speaker 1: Ship UM, which was the mile long super boat that

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Speaker 1: was going to everyone was going to live in total liberty,

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Speaker 1: but also under Irish law with the FBI running everything. Right,

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Speaker 1: So how did that work out? Well, they never built it. Um.

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Speaker 1: Every three or four years from the mid nineties on,

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Speaker 1: the freedom Ship would like creep back into the media

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Speaker 1: when like some new backer, because like I think the people,

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Speaker 1: the old people would just kind of hand it off

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Speaker 1: to someone knew who would try to raise money off it. Again,

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Speaker 1: like it was just this grift that wouldn't quite die

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Speaker 1: just inheriting the grift. They're just kind of like passing

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Speaker 1: it on, like do you want to build the freedom ship? Kid?

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Speaker 1: By two thousand seven, the project was no closer to

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Speaker 1: starting the construction, which should have concluded. In two thousand three.

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Speaker 1: A writer for in These Times noted of is it

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Speaker 1: to the news section of Freedomship dot Com reveals a

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Speaker 1: more sluggish pace. The most recent message messages date from

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Speaker 1: more than two years ago, for learnely explaining how scam

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Speaker 1: operations are slowing things down, but that things are happening

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Speaker 1: and they are moving fast. Meanwhile, the ship is not

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Speaker 1: yet finished, indeed, it has not yet started. Despite this,

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Speaker 1: Freedomship International Incorporated has been startlingly successful in raising publicity

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Speaker 1: for this floating city, much credulous journalistic cooping over the

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Speaker 1: biggest vessel in history with its hospitals, bunks, hospitals, banks,

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Speaker 1: sports centers, parks, theaters, and nightclubs, not to mention its

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Speaker 1: airport has ignored the vessel's stubborn non existence. That's very funny.

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Speaker 1: And this, this Dave. The failure of the freedom boat

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Speaker 1: brings me to the final but longest portion of our episode,

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Speaker 1: which has to start with the c steading movement. Have

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Speaker 1: you heard of c steading? C steading? Yeah? No, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't sound good, but maybe I'm willing to be wrong.

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Speaker 1: It's I think it's a cool idea. It's the idea that, like,

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Speaker 1: people could take to the sea and like as the

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Speaker 1: pioneers of old did, build their own homes in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the wilderness and live off of them. But

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Speaker 1: because it's the sea, you wouldn't be stealing anybody's ship. Um, Like,

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Speaker 1: it's a neat idea. I would say the fictional analog

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Speaker 1: that's closest to sea stetting is the incredible roy Shier

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Speaker 1: vehicle se quest. Oh yeah, Royce Shier, just incredible. Um

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Speaker 1: star of Jaws too exactly? Um well, I would say

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Speaker 1: the star of Just two is alcohol. Yes, I mean,

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Speaker 1: and the antagonist of like There's you know, you could

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Speaker 1: argue that most of the reason that Jazz was that

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Speaker 1: Shark was formidable is because they were just so drunk

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Speaker 1: because everyone was hammered the entire time. Yeah, that's fair.

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Speaker 1: So in SeaQuest, did you ever actually watch SeaQuest? I

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Speaker 1: remember there was a guy with gills. Yeah, yeah, they

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Speaker 1: shot it, I know briefly at Epcot Center did Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I would say probably the high point of SeaQuest the

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Speaker 1: series is the episode in which William Shatner plays Sloba

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Speaker 1: Doon Melosovic. This party was born to play incredible move

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Speaker 1: include an accent because it's yeah, he does an accent.

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Speaker 1: Like the episode. It's an episode where like they have

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Speaker 1: to there's this dictator who's like taken to the sea

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Speaker 1: after getting like forced out having committed a genocide. And

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Speaker 1: the episode was filmed during the Bosnian genocides. It's very

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Speaker 1: clearly who who Shatner is supposed to be. This is perfect,

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Speaker 1: it's incredible. So in SeaQuest, incredible show this this big

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Speaker 1: ship travels around all these little like sea habitats people

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Speaker 1: have built a right, like the ocean has just been colonized.

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Speaker 1: There these little towns and villages and independent homesteads in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the wild ocean. That's the idea the

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Speaker 1: sea steads doing. They're doing a sea Quest, but without

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Speaker 1: the giant boat, right, that's that's the people who wanted

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Speaker 1: to do the freedom ship. They want to make the

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Speaker 1: little bitty sea communities that eventually just I think necessitate

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Speaker 1: the giant boat. They want floating homes just a little

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Speaker 1: further out there, Just a little further out there. Um. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Sea steading got its official start in two thousand and

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Speaker 1: eight when the Sea Steading Institute was founded in San

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Speaker 1: Francisco by Patrie Friedman. Friedman and an archo capitalist and

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Speaker 1: grandson of economist Milton Friedman, had been a Google engineer

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Speaker 1: and was thus connected to Peter Teal. He convinced Teal

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Speaker 1: to throw them some cash to found an institute. So

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Speaker 1: Peter Teal throws a bunch of money into the Sea

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Speaker 1: Steading Institute, and in their founding a statement, they promised

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Speaker 1: to establish a permanent autonomous ocean community to enable experimentation

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Speaker 1: and innovation with diverse social, political, and legal systems. The

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Speaker 1: experimentation I love that idea because it's like, what experiment

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Speaker 1: is best done on the ocean? Um only the illegal kind?

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Speaker 1: Can we fuck the dolphins? Yeah, it's actually the worst

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Speaker 1: place to do any other experiments. Like the movie Deep

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Speaker 1: Blue Sea. They should have done that in a tank.

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Speaker 1: Are you in the ocean? How did that help things? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: In fact, it hurt things. Like all experiments don't get

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Speaker 1: better if you're in the ocean. It just gets more complicated.

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Speaker 1: As a general rule, very few things get better when

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Speaker 1: you're in the ocean. Jurassic Park, the problem was there

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Speaker 1: in an island like that was part of the problem. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: just don't do it. Stay on the ocean, Stay the

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Speaker 1: funk out of the ocean. If I had, if I

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Speaker 1: could have one message for my listeners, it's stay out

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Speaker 1: of the ocean. You know, it's weird if I could

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Speaker 1: have two messages. It's that. I think maybe dolphins could

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Speaker 1: consent to sex with human beings. We don't know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: like they understand the concept, right, Like, so I think

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Speaker 1: who's to say, Yeah, I think the general rule for

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Speaker 1: having sex with an animal, and you can all quote

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Speaker 1: me on this and write it down, is uh, if

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Speaker 1: the animal is doing the sex on you, like, that's consent, right,

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Speaker 1: And it's that controversial now that I like that I

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Speaker 1: don't agree with. If you heard of Mr Hands Dave,

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Speaker 1: I have. But the horse was all right right, the

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Speaker 1: horse was okay. I think there's some argument that it

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Speaker 1: was psychologically hurt. Yeah, that it was traumatized a bit.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not a horse psychologist. I think

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Speaker 1: that's unethical, No, I I yeah, I think if a

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Speaker 1: horse knew, Like I feel like a horse should be

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Speaker 1: proud if they've killed somebody, because well, I was about

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Speaker 1: to say so few of them do, but actually, now

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Speaker 1: I think about it. The Yeah, so that's not special.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing special, but Mr Hands, now that I think

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Speaker 1: about it, no, no, no. But meanwhile, dolphins attempt to

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Speaker 1: sexually assault people all the time, all the time. It

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Speaker 1: happens constantly, and they do to other dolphins. So clearly,

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Speaker 1: if you could communicate with a dolphin, I think it

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Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily be unethical as long as the dolphin gives consent.

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Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying, Dave, we need an animal consent system. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: you're right. Yeah, I I think I just think dolphins

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Speaker 1: it should be the same rules as people. Okay, that's

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Speaker 1: that's that's that's that's my rant about dolphins. Sex. In

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Speaker 1: the middle of this episode, we had to talk about

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Speaker 1: sex with some kind of thing that you're not supposed

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Speaker 1: to have sex within an episode about libertarian politics, it's inevitable.

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Speaker 1: It's inevitable. Yes, that's we knew. We knew where all

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Speaker 1: these roads were heading. Arguing about dolphins sex. If you're

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Speaker 1: if you're building a society on the ocean, you're thinking

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Speaker 1: about fucking dolphins, we know it. It's on the table.

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Speaker 1: It's on the table, all right. I don't I don't

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Speaker 1: want to fuck an animal. I would say they're the

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Speaker 1: most fuckable animals. I think, yeah that I'm now I'm

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Speaker 1: like racking my brain and I'm trying to think about it.

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Speaker 1: You're thinking about the blowhole, aren't you. Of course. I

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Speaker 1: love a very smooth so excited this week, so exciting.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna get a lot of John c. Lily and

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Speaker 1: hitting us up. So Peter Teal was really bullish about

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Speaker 1: the future of c steading right, this this uh, this

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Speaker 1: idea of like little independent autonomous ocean communities that you

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Speaker 1: can experiment with different political ideas and innovative. He loves

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Speaker 1: this um and he promised ominously in a press statement

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Speaker 1: at the time that quote, the nature of government is

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Speaker 1: about to change at a very fundamental level, which it was,

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Speaker 1: and Peter Teal had a lot to do with it.

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Speaker 1: But it was not through c steading. Not something I

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Speaker 1: want to hear from Peter Teal. Yeah. I don't really

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Speaker 1: want to hear much from Peter deal. No, although I

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Speaker 1: do want to know what he's up to. Yeah what

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Speaker 1: eyes on the man, But I don't want to hear

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Speaker 1: from him. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It sounds like an amber

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Speaker 1: alert with that. Yeah, Peters heels up to some ship.

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Speaker 1: It's just always flashing in the background. Get up in

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Speaker 1: the morning. God damn it, Peter Tal he's out. He's

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Speaker 1: out there from Peter Teal. It's only quiet when he's asleep.

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Speaker 1: Um So, Peter invests a bunch of startup cash to

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Speaker 1: help make c stetting into like a name within kind

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Speaker 1: of the libertarian community. But he doesn't put up a

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Speaker 1: lot of cash, and by when The Guardian profiled the

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Speaker 1: c stetting movement, his donations had dried up. By then,

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Speaker 1: Freedman was billing c stetting. Freedman is the guy who

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Speaker 1: founded and convinced Till to give him the money, was

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Speaker 1: billing c stetting is the perfect solution to the problem

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Speaker 1: of finding yourself trapped in a government that doesn't sell,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't like have the same values that you have,

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Speaker 1: which I agree, that's a problem. I think everyone listening

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Speaker 1: to this right now knows what it's like to live

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Speaker 1: under a government that does not, uh embrace your values.

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Speaker 1: But um, yeah, I don't see. Well they think that

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Speaker 1: c stetting is a perfect solution to that problem because

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Speaker 1: you can move right, Like it's like what if, what if,

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Speaker 1: you know, we wouldn't have a lot of the conflicts

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Speaker 1: we have in society. There would be no need for

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Speaker 1: protests to riots. If oh I'm not happy with what

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Speaker 1: my government's doing, I'll just pick up and drive away.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's modular, like I'll just move my house

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Speaker 1: to another government. And it's the kind of thing. They're

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Speaker 1: all engineers, libertarians and and the people are in these

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Speaker 1: projects like both like libertarians and like the people who

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Speaker 1: get most into c studding and similar sort of projects.

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Speaker 1: They're all engineers, and it's a very engineer answer to

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Speaker 1: the problem of like, oh, yeah, well, if you're not

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Speaker 1: happy with your government, you just pick up and move,

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Speaker 1: which is technically perfect and also completely insane when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about people. It's nonsense, like it's always okay, so

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Speaker 1: everyone's supposed to leave their family behind, Like what if

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Speaker 1: they have debts somewhere. What if they have student loans

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Speaker 1: um what about like health care situations? What if you

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Speaker 1: know they have what what if it's not feasible for

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Speaker 1: the vehicle that they are able to afford for them

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Speaker 1: to actually get to another place. There's all these what

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Speaker 1: if they don't want to leave, they want to do

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Speaker 1: something else? Yeah, what if they want to change it

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Speaker 1: because there's people they love there and because like they've

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Speaker 1: put a lot of sweat equity in it and they

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Speaker 1: just don't like what one faction of people are doing,

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Speaker 1: Like it doesn't it's the tech bro problem where it's

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Speaker 1: like figure out text. They're very good at what they don't.

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Speaker 1: They didn't go to school for it. They didn't have

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Speaker 1: an upbringing for understanding human beings. It's always the X

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Speaker 1: factor that they leave out of their equation because they

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Speaker 1: just don't consider it. And it's it seems to be

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Speaker 1: everyone has, like dunning Krueger is a thing we all all,

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Speaker 1: I certainly do talk sometimes on things that like we

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Speaker 1: don't actually understand it's a human thing, Like nobody escapes this.

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Speaker 1: There's probably like an expert on having sex with animals,

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Speaker 1: who's who's like, no, they all wrong. Let me tell

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Speaker 1: you about how dolphins. Fine, that's not the most fuckable animal?

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Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? It's the giraffe. Just a man

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Speaker 1: with a giraffe portrait in the background of his house

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Speaker 1: screaming at us. Was through said, folks, I've thought about

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Speaker 1: this for years. God damnit. Um. But for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: engineers are that I think the group of people most

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Speaker 1: likely to be like And I think it's because what

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Speaker 1: they do is so difficult and so in demand and

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Speaker 1: so impressive. Like a good engineer is like a wizard,

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Speaker 1: like some of the people like I've knew. I known

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Speaker 1: a dude once we were camping with him and like

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Speaker 1: he forgot to bring a headlamp, so he took apart.

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Speaker 1: He turned the headlight of his car into a functional

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Speaker 1: headlamp that lasted an entire weekend. It took him like

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Speaker 1: thirty seconds. Um. Like, it's amazing when you can see

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Speaker 1: people with that kind of like mechanical talent. The problem

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Speaker 1: with that is that, like you said, they think that

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Speaker 1: they understand everything that way and then everything works that way,

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Speaker 1: and I think they don't. Yeah, I think it's the

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Speaker 1: same with like doctors and stuff like that. Like you

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Speaker 1: look at what's his name, Ben Carson. Yes, where it's

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Speaker 1: like you can be really smart about one thing, and

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Speaker 1: if that thing feels very important, you get a lot

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Speaker 1: of people who are like, oh my god, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much. You think, well, I must be smart about

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Speaker 1: all the things. And that's when things get really wrong.

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Speaker 1: I thinks get really wrong. Yeah, we're people like us.

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Speaker 1: We're really good at things that don't matter. So like

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Speaker 1: it's I guess again, you're right, we're probably over confident

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Speaker 1: and talking. This is why podcasters keep giving people medical

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Speaker 1: advice about what to do with accident. It's the Joe

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Speaker 1: Rogan phenomenon. I'm very successful, So you're really good at

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Speaker 1: talking into a microphone and wrestling. Um. That doesn't really

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Speaker 1: have anything to do with medicine, but by god, you

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Speaker 1: think it does. Um. And yeah, everybody does it to

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Speaker 1: some extent. But for whatever reason, I don't know. This

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Speaker 1: is a particularly white dude, especially white engineers who are

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Speaker 1: fans of Peter Teal. Uh So yeah, this they cook

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Speaker 1: up this idea, um, this very dumbmighty that also ignores

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Speaker 1: like is every individual sea staid self sufficient in terms

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Speaker 1: of food? Um? Which often they'll say that like, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course they'll make their own food. You'll you'll be

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Speaker 1: able to you know, hydroponically farm and you'll do this,

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Speaker 1: and you'll do that, and it and again. It's it's

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Speaker 1: always when you read them like explaining how you'll grow

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Speaker 1: all of your food that you need to survive in

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Speaker 1: your individual seapod um, it's like, okay, so you've never

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Speaker 1: grown food, Like right, you've never ever grown anything because

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Speaker 1: like I am not an expert farmer. I'm not an

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Speaker 1: expert gardener, but I've spent a lot of my life

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Speaker 1: on farm. It takes a lot of space in infrastructure.

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Speaker 1: You hand keep like a family alive on a half

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Speaker 1: acre if you're really good and really and that's a

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Speaker 1: half acre of space that's fully utilized under like good conditions.

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Speaker 1: You're talking about growing food in the ocean. Yeah, my

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Speaker 1: migrant in this world would be I go to the

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Speaker 1: whatever mainlands there, go to the supermarket, buy food, go

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Speaker 1: out in the boat, and charge them triple for it

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Speaker 1: because you make a killing doing that. Just think you

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Speaker 1: want some real food. I got lunchables, all lunchables here.

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Speaker 1: You go like that, still got plankton? Yeah, it's sick

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Speaker 1: of eating of a bunch of fucking fish. Here, have

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Speaker 1: some goddamn fruit and vegetables. Yeah, it's it's it's all

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Speaker 1: just like never thought out beyond I'll finally be able

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Speaker 1: to mine bitcoin and masturbate to illegal pornography. Um, like

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Speaker 1: that's the that's the end of most of the people,

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Speaker 1: most people, most not all people's thinking who get into this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it always it feels ultimately self serving, That's what it is.

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Speaker 1: It's always just they want to do the things they

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Speaker 1: want to do, and then they're like they get a

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Speaker 1: big head about it, and they think, like, man, this

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Speaker 1: is how people should live. And it's like and as

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Speaker 1: critics at the time noted, like the worst case scenario

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Speaker 1: for if this actually became a thing is a lot

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Speaker 1: of people drown, right. The best case scenario is like

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Speaker 1: aquatic apartheid where rich people build their like artificial islands

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Speaker 1: to hide from poor people where they can't be beaten

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Speaker 1: and murdered during riots over climate change and inequality like

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Speaker 1: that that is the actual Like and also if we're

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Speaker 1: talking about like a potentially realistic outcome of something like this, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've gotten better at like ships that can turn salt

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Speaker 1: seawater into drinkable water, and can grow food if you

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Speaker 1: have if you have Jeff Bezos's resources, He's building a

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Speaker 1: very large boat right now. He could build a boat

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Speaker 1: that could keep he and a number of other people

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Speaker 1: alive with minimal supply for indefinitely. He has those resources,

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Speaker 1: but he wants like a boat with like an arcade

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Speaker 1: and stuff. Yeah, I mean he's building a very nice boat.

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Speaker 1: He's building the boat all these people dream about having. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it's going to be rad but also yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be a rich Man water fortress while

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Speaker 1: he watches the world die. Um. Yeah, Freedman got as

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Speaker 1: far and this is the only cool thing Freedman did.

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Speaker 1: He started a Burning Man style nautical camping event called

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Speaker 1: Femalile outside of a Sacramento I want to go. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's not actually connected to Burning Man, but it's the

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Speaker 1: same premise. And if you don't know Bernie Man, it's

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Speaker 1: like there's nobody in charge. There's no like talent and guests.

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Speaker 1: Everybody's a participant and participates in making the event together

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Speaker 1: and handling things like safety and a Femalile is like

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Speaker 1: all aquatic, so people build platforms and attach them together

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Speaker 1: and like every platform is like a camp or a

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Speaker 1: set of camps and stuff. So they have bars and

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Speaker 1: restaurants and and different kinds of like art projects that

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Speaker 1: are all connected to living spaces in this gigantic floating

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Speaker 1: raft they make in the middle of a river together.

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Speaker 1: Um and uh yeah, it actually sounds rad as hell. First, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they know what they're doing. We've on to community communities

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Speaker 1: that separated themselves Jesus World, and what they tend to

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Speaker 1: be is very serious about it and what Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they tend to and they tend to be like, look,

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Speaker 1: someone has to do the the shitty stuff too, and

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Speaker 1: we all take turns. And that's what it feels like

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Speaker 1: these people are missing is the very serious like regard

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Speaker 1: of how how to actually do this stuff and the

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Speaker 1: fact that it comes down to like you're always going

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Speaker 1: to have to work period. You're gonna have to work it.

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Speaker 1: You're always going to be responsible to other people. Other

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Speaker 1: people are going to limit your behavior because that's just

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Speaker 1: life around people. It doesn't have to be like a

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Speaker 1: police state. But like there will be times when you're like,

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Speaker 1: well I would do this, but that will affect this

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Speaker 1: other person in a negative way, and so I won't

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Speaker 1: and it makes these guys really pissed that that would

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Speaker 1: ever be the case. But normal people, especially normal people

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Speaker 1: who do difficult things like build communities out of unhewn

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Speaker 1: wilderness together, are like, well, yeah, we all give up

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Speaker 1: a little bit of freedom in order to get to

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Speaker 1: benefit from having the of their people around, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: exactly if you live in alone in a cabin in

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Speaker 1: the woods, like like your Tommy Lee Jones in the

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Speaker 1: movie Wanted, That's right, No hunted everybody. I'm so sorry. Um,

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Speaker 1: you have to like you have to get food, and

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Speaker 1: you have to you have to do you have to

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Speaker 1: earn that through work. It's just what kind of work

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Speaker 1: do you want to do? Yeah, there's there's And I

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Speaker 1: think actually the cool version of this you see in

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Speaker 1: a femalile, which is um. I think it would be

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Speaker 1: rad if like people were building autonomous communities in the

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Speaker 1: sea that weren't just tax dodges. But we're like experiments

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Speaker 1: to see if like, are there lower impact ways of

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Speaker 1: keeping people alive? Is this perhaps the way we could

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Speaker 1: do it that emits less or that that is is

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Speaker 1: toxic that uses less land, Like is this an option

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Speaker 1: for refugee communities for stateless people? Like there's another and

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Speaker 1: and burners are kind of the perfect people to iterate that.

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Speaker 1: It so like the guy, one of the people that

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Speaker 1: comes into the very first effemal ile is this dude

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Speaker 1: who helped who has been a long time person at

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Speaker 1: the Big Burning Man, and he's like a ranger and

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Speaker 1: his specialty was like safety. Um, and he he wasn't

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Speaker 1: I don't think he was even particularly into C setting.

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Speaker 1: He was just like, Oh, you guys are going to

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Speaker 1: do an event on water where everyone's on water all

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Speaker 1: the time. I don't want anyone to drown. I will

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Speaker 1: help figure out how to make sure nobody drowns. And

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Speaker 1: they've kept doing it. So the first year they do

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Speaker 1: this event, the C Setting Institute like is the official host,

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Speaker 1: and then after that their lawyers are like, hey, no

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Speaker 1: organization can get insured to hold an event like this.

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Speaker 1: It's way too dangerous. Um, you can never do this again.

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Speaker 1: But it keeps happening because they just didn't need the

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Speaker 1: C Setting Institute. Just a bunch of people show up

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Speaker 1: every year and lash a bunch of elaborate rafts together

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Speaker 1: and have kept doing it for like a decade now,

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Speaker 1: and no one's ever died it's like the drinking age

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Speaker 1: in Canada. Just be cool, Yeah, just be cool, take

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Speaker 1: care of each other. Um they have I've googled this

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Speaker 1: a little bit and like half of what they have

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00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 1: written that's out on the internet. It's just like different

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Speaker 1: guides to what to do with someone's drowning and how

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Speaker 1: to avoid drowning. Like that's their number one rule is

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Speaker 1: don't die again. It's it's that that's what bothers me.

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Speaker 1: I guess about these libertarian see plans is that I

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Speaker 1: understand the want to break free of the government. We

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Speaker 1: all do. Uh you know. I grew up really into

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Speaker 1: punk rock and an anarchy and all that crap, and

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Speaker 1: so it's like the neat the the idea of making

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Speaker 1: a commune or community and living away from the government

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Speaker 1: is very appealing. And so say these people start from

401
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Speaker 1: the top down. They're so bad at it. They're like

402
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Speaker 1: casinos and malls, yeah this stuff. And it's like, no,

403
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 1: just get plumbing right, yeah, right, a better way. Yeah

404
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 1: there's And again it's this freedman like gives up on

405
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Speaker 1: sea setting. He abandons the idea as soon as like

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Speaker 1: the money starts to dry up. And um, I think

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Speaker 1: the c setting in student. I don't know if they

408
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Speaker 1: still have a presence at a Femaleile, but they don't

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Speaker 1: host it anymore and it doesn't seem to be a

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Speaker 1: big part of the project. And it's kind of like,

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Speaker 1: if you were actually serious about it, all you would

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Speaker 1: want to do is create more events like this so

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Speaker 1: that people can in real time beta test different pieces

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Speaker 1: of equipment and figure out the best way to build

415
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Speaker 1: like durable, permanent Like that's really the ideal way to

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Speaker 1: do this. It's not raise a bunch of money to

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Speaker 1: like build your idea. It's spend ten years hosting events

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Speaker 1: like this all over the world and have a couple

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Speaker 1: of hundred thousand people experiment with shit. There's so much

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Speaker 1: cool ship here. And if you're if you attend a

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Speaker 1: female aile, like hit me up, it sounds rad I

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Speaker 1: want to go um, But this it's just it. It

423
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 1: shows you what a difference is between Like, if there

424
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,880
Speaker 1: ever is a colonization of the CE, it's gonna be

425
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,439
Speaker 1: like the people who do a Femaleile, it's gonna be

426
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 1: like a bunch of people who already on their own

427
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 1: are just making ship, living out in the sea for

428
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,479
Speaker 1: a couple of days or weeks at a time, figuring

429
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 1: out better ways to do it, and just keep doing

430
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 1: that more and more and more. It's going to be

431
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 1: some VC firm, crowdfunds a c city, you know, because

432
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,439
Speaker 1: that's a dumb idea, or it's a government or some

433
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 1: but yeah, the idea of a grassroots colonization, like, yeah,

434
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 1: that is what it would start with. And these the

435
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 1: it's they're like expos, you know, like these little events

436
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: where it's like we're just it's proof of concepts and

437
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 1: it's very realistic and practical because like obviously, if someone

438
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: can put it together for like a week long campout, um,

439
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 1: then it's probably actually accessible. Yeah anyway, whatever, you know

440
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 1: what else is accessible? David Um, I'm out of the

441
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: virtues of capitalism which you can access by buying these

442
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 1: products right now, don't think. Just get out your credit

443
00:23:50,119 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: card and start paying. Ah we are back and way howdy,

444
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 1: Dave Um. It has just been a fun time. So

445
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 1: pat Patrie Friedman, who founds the c Stetting Institute, he

446
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 1: bounces uh and he co founds a corporation called Future

447
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,640
Speaker 1: Cities Development, which ceased operating in two thousand and twelve

448
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,919
Speaker 1: without making any cities in two thousand nineteen, he started

449
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 1: another Peter Teel backed project, a venture capital firm named

450
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: prominos Um, whose mission was to make enough money to

451
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: pay to build an experimental city somewhere, but on land,

452
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: this time. A Wikipedia entry on this subject adds, hilariously,

453
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: most of the cities will be aimed at foreign businesses

454
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: seeking friendly at tax treatment. He's again this thing like

455
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 1: we're talking a lot of ship on libertarians. I was

456
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: a libertarian most of my life. I would still be

457
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 1: one if I hadn't realized that a sizeable chunk of

458
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 1: people who call themselves libertarians just want a corporation to

459
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: be their boss instead of the gun. They just want

460
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: to do a fraud. Uh Like in this I feel less.

461
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 1: So this is all Peter Teel money. Yeah, yeah, there's

462
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,360
Speaker 1: all the ones that Patrie is involved. I feel better

463
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: about that because that's you're not scamming a bunch of people.

464
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 1: You're scamming one person, and that person is Peter Teal

465
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: And it's like, all right, that's fine. Like if it look,

466
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: if you can scam a rich person out of a

467
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: bunch of money, uh, you know, go for it. You know,

468
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 1: you can write that down along with the animal fucking

469
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: like it's it's yeah, it's uh, I get it, like

470
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: it's it's better than uh scamming, like you know, the

471
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,959
Speaker 1: little person. Yeah, I mean I would agree with you

472
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: if you're going to steal from someone. I think Peter

473
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: Teal is an incredible person to steal from. There's a

474
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,679
Speaker 1: lot of teal from. Fine with you stealing from, but

475
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 1: Peter Teal is like, I will, I will buy you

476
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 1: a drink if you successfully steal from Peter Teal happily, happily,

477
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 1: legally binding. So if you can, we make a T

478
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 1: shirt that says, I will buy you a drink if

479
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 1: you if you rob Peter Teal. We can't, but I

480
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: love steal the Teal. There's a rhyme there. Yeah. Yeah,

481
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 1: he's rather litigious, so this is legally a joke. Oh yeah,

482
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 1: so um. The C Steading Institute, though, did not go

483
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: away when Patrie Friedman moved on to other grifts. It

484
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 1: just picked up a new leader, the c evangelist. And

485
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 1: that's a word that this guy created, Joe Quirk. No,

486
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 1: I mean you don't trust see evangel evangelist quirk. No,

487
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't trust any part of that. Yeah,

488
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 1: I certainly don't trust the last name Quirk. Quirk. Yeah,

489
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: it sounds kind of like Quirk from It does sound

490
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: a little bit like from d S nine, but also

491
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: his favorite Frangie. It also just sounds made up. It

492
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 1: sounds like someone had to make up a name real quick. Yeah,

493
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 1: and they were like looking at like a cork in

494
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 1: a bottle or something like, yeah, you know, I'm thinking

495
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: of the Farrangie now, Dave. And just as quick aside,

496
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: why do you think Star Trek didn't just like like

497
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: they were supposed to be the new bad guys in

498
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: in T and G and then everyone clearly real eased

499
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,239
Speaker 1: after the first episode. Oh my god, we made an

500
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 1: anti semitic caricature race, right, we made space to choose?

501
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 1: Why did why didn't they just stop? Like, why didn't

502
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:09,959
Speaker 1: they just give up like they Clint? They replaced them

503
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: with the board. Why did we keep getting FRENGI what

504
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 1: was the I can I have? I have an explanation?

505
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: I mean not for the space choose part. That just

506
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: seems like in all fantasy, when like j K Rally

507
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: was like, what if there's a banker race and it

508
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: was like that seems like a bad idea. J k

509
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: Um no Star Trek. This is my problem with new

510
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: Star Trek, and I'll only talk about this for maybe minutes.

511
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 1: Tops uh No, they the whole thing was Star Trek

512
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 1: is like the Klingons were the enemy in the original series,

513
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: then they're working with them in Next Generation. So it

514
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: does make sense for the Farrangi to then be allies.

515
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: Like it's all about not defeating your enemies but joining them,

516
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: and I think that's a very cool positive message in

517
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: Star Trek. It's why I don't like Discovery, because they're

518
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 1: back to the Klingon stuff, and I'm like, no, I

519
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: like progress Progressive of nine. They had like good Borg

520
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 1: people to agree with you about what's good about Star Trek.

521
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 1: I just don't see why the people making Star Trek

522
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: were like, well, we can't just pretend we never made

523
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: an anti Semitism species and make another capitalist species that

524
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: don't look like a Nazi cartoon. Yes, I mean early

525
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: Star Trek. We were just talking about in this last

526
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: episode where it's like progressive for the time you got

527
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: us some season one Star Trek. There is a flat

528
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: out very racist episode in the Next Generation. I think

529
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: it's called Code of honor. Uh oh yeah, the planet

530
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: where everybody's um. All of the people on the planet

531
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: are black and it's very, very uncomfortable. Yes, yeah, they

532
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 1: kidnapped Tosha Yard, like my goodness, Yeah we didn't look.

533
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: They're all just white dude sci fi or they're trying

534
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: to be progressive, but like they are being progressive, they're

535
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: just not perfect there, you know, they're they're flawed human

536
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: beings with bigotry that they didn't recognize was there, and

537
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: they made something really cringe e. That happens, happens. Yeah,

538
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: so uh, speaking of cringe e, let's keep talking about

539
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: the c Stetting Institute. Joe Quirk, the c evangelist. Now,

540
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: I haven't found a lot out about this guy's life

541
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: before sea stetting. He must be he's got to be

542
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: somewhere in his like mid to late forties, maybe early fifties.

543
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: His first recorded accomplishment of any note is the publication

544
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: of a novel called The Ultimate Rush. In The Ultimate

545
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: Rush was about quote, a rollerblading messenger caught in an

546
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: illegal insider trading ring. According to Wikipedia, that's not what

547
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: I thought it was gonna be. The rollerblading messenger is

548
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: named Chet Griffin and he quote spins his nights hacking

549
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: for fun, so he's a he's a hacker roller skating messenger.

550
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: I wonder how much of this was a rip off

551
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: of snow Crash. I don't know this now that I

552
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,479
Speaker 1: read this sounds like it like this sounds like Gleaming

553
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: the Cube. Did you ever see that movie where it's

554
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: like you, it's a skateboarding Christian Slater movie and You're like, oh, cool,

555
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: maybe it will be about like the big, the big

556
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: skateboarding competitions. You say skateboarding Christian Slater movie, and I think,

557
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: I why am I not watching this it right this second?

558
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: The movie actually is like fucking Chinatown. Like it's like

559
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: this weird noir where he's like doing terrorism against a

560
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: corporation that killed his brother and it's like, come on, man,

561
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: just skateboard to rock music, which also happens in the movie.

562
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: But it's it's what That's what this sounds like. It

563
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: is like it's too many hats on a hat is

564
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: what I'm getting it here, Dave. I have a Christian

565
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: Slater story to tell you, but remind me to save

566
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: it for the end because I don't want to break

567
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: up the flow too much here. Joe wrote this skateboarding hacker,

568
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: Messenger insider trading book in nineteen and it made very

569
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: little impact, although Joe claims two d and fifty thousand

570
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: paperbacks were printed, which is key. That's a little thing

571
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: you can tell about it. Aither printed? Huh? And where

572
00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: are they? Where they go? They perhaps in your attict

573
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: right now. The most noteworthy thing about this book is

574
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: that in two thousand eleven, Joe sued Sony Pictures for

575
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: their upcoming feature film Premium Rush, alleging that it was

576
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: based on his screenplay. A judge said, no, it was not. Um.

577
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: He did not win this lawsuit just had the word

578
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: rush in it. Yeah, similar than that, but okay. Yeah.

579
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: In two thousand eight he wrote a book about love,

580
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: sex and relationships, from which we get an author bio

581
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: that tells us slightly more about him. And this this

582
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: really gets a lot of this man's character. Joe Quirk

583
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: comes across in this paragraph. Dave I studied literature and

584
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: minored in development of Western civilization at Providence College, taught

585
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: partially by Dominican priests who had no sense of humor.

586
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: When it came to my biological observations about celibacy. I

587
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: graduated at the top of the bottom, at the top

588
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: of the bottom tenth of my class. I attended one

589
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: year of law school, so only lost one third of

590
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: my soul, which is just enough to function in American society.

591
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: I invested the last seven in the years of my

592
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: novel Royalties and reading evolutionary biology studies full time. Now

593
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: I finally feel ready to ask a woman on a date.

594
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: Oh no, that's hard bringing what a way to end that? Yeah, Joe, buddy,

595
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: So that's the basics of joke quirk. You have a

596
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: picture of him now in two Yeah, we've all met

597
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: a joke quirk. In two thousand fourteen, he becomes the

598
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: c evangelist for c Stetting, which I think is the head,

599
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: but I'm not really certain and I don't care to

600
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: find out. Um. The next year he founds an organization

601
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: dedicated to building a floating city with unprecedented political autonomy

602
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: and the waters of a host nation. The Guardian goes

603
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: on to describe the start of Joe's contributions to the

604
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: magical world of libertarian Bode cons quote. Nearly half of

605
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: the world's surfaces unclaimed, says Quirk, who published a book

606
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: on c stetting in two thousand seventeen with the ambitious

607
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: subtitle how Floating Nations will restore the environment, enriched the poor,

608
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: cure the sick, and liberate humanity from politicians. In an

609
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: introductory video, he describes the planets oceans as a sort

610
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: of research and development zone where we could discover better

611
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: means of governance, and says that c steading could provide

612
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: the technology for thousands of people to start their own

613
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: nano nation on the high seas, giving people opportunities to

614
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: to peacefully test new ideas about living together. The most

615
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: successful c steads, he says, will become thriving new societies,

616
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,719
Speaker 1: inspiring change around the world. There's a lot in there

617
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: that's very funny, Dave um. I. I like the fact

618
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: that this is going to be a research and development zone, uh,

619
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: but also a way for people to to live together,

620
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: even though like the whole basis of it is, you

621
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: can escape if you find yourself in a around people

622
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: you don't like, um, which it actually seems like you're

623
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: not learning to live together, you're just learning to like

624
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: flee a series of communities as they collapse in interpersonal conflicts.

625
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: Um it feels more Mad Max, where yeah, if everything

626
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: falls apart, everybody scatters and they go do their other

627
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: experimental communities. It's it's one of those like if you

628
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: were utopian, and I am, you have to grapple with

629
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: the fact that, like there's a lot of times people

630
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: have tried to separate from society and make their own

631
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: new society and it usually collapses and like and not

632
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: for because the government cracks down, but because like if

633
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: the wrong people fuck each other, like right, like the

634
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: most utopian projects in the way most punk houses end, yes,

635
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: where everybody hating each other. Yeah, yeah, and none of

636
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: them dishes done and a lot of new std spread, right,

637
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: someone gets their foot broken or something like that, and

638
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: it's a whole thing. Yeah. Yeah, a good punk house

639
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: only lass maybe a couple of years. Yeah, maybe that's

640
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: the I mean, I guess I could, I could. I

641
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: would say maybe some interesting ideas would come out of

642
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: a bunch of like seaborn punk houses floating around and

643
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: breaking apart and reforming. UM. I don't also maybe, but

644
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: maybe not. Yeah, some other things could occur to UM,

645
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: I'll admit to being intrigued by the idea somewhat, although

646
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,919
Speaker 1: I don't think their their pitch for how it would

647
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 1: actually look is particularly interesting. So again I get it

648
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: when they're like, look at that whole ocean that we got,

649
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,399
Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, no, that's true. That's a whole

650
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: lot of land, well not really land, but it's a

651
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: whole lot of space that like, if someone figured out

652
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: something to do with it, it's a good It's like,

653
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: oh that's a that's cool. But then again it's like, again,

654
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: the ocean doesn't want us there. Let's not sunk up

655
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: another area. Although we are fucking up the ocean, let's

656
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,879
Speaker 1: not more. Yeah. Yeah, And that's one of the things

657
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: about like we'll get on this, but like I don't.

658
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: They always talk about how ecologically friendly it will be,

659
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: but like they're also the people who think the the

660
00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: e p A is like the an illegal organization and

661
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: we should like there should be no environmental rules about

662
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: where you can and can't dump poison. It's the one yeah,

663
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: it's the one case for like colonies on Mars. This

664
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: is like yeah, go there, go yeah. I never get

665
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: that mad about anything people say about colonizing Mars because

666
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: it's like, well, the worst case scenario is you die

667
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: and I don't know you, so it's fine. Yeah, that's

668
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: got hurt much, go fill it with your trash. I

669
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: don't give a shit about Mars. Yeah, Mars is already dead.

670
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: You're very welcome there. So yeah again, so far, this

671
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: guy Joe Quirk's attempts UM to establish a floating utopia

672
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,720
Speaker 1: do not bode well for the future of utopian sea cities.

673
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 1: In January of two thousand seventeen, after years of technical

674
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 1: feasibility studies and political negotiations, the Sea Steading Institute signed

675
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: a memorandum of Understanding with the Government of French Polynesia

676
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: to build the first sea steads in its territorial waters.

677
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: The designs were developed by Dutch architects named Blue twenty

678
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: one UM, and it was kind of looked like a

679
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: big resort UM. There was a bunch of villas and yeah,

680
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: all sorts of like there's this idea there's gonna be

681
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,359
Speaker 1: big parks and ship like the other ones we're talking about. UM.

682
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: And they planned to fund it through an initial coin offering,

683
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 1: which is like a crowdfunding thing. UM. Like, we're we're

684
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: going not a crowdfunding, it's it's UM. There they were

685
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,280
Speaker 1: planning to launch a new cryptocurrency and have the value

686
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: of that cryptocurrency and like the money people put into

687
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: it buying the initial coins fund the start of the

688
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: of the island that they're going to build for the

689
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,439
Speaker 1: community they're going to build in French Polynesia. Um. Yeah,

690
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: Joe Quirk told reporters were going to draw a new

691
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 1: map of the world with French Polynesia at the center

692
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: of the aquatic age. So that's I mean, it's a

693
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,240
Speaker 1: step further than anyone else has really gotten. Yeah, cryptocurrency

694
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: is a good way to get this crypto. Yeah, and

695
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 1: it's and here's the thing that they didn't prove over

696
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: the Republic of Minerva. They actually like a down with

697
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: the government and we're like we want to do this,

698
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: which is, you know, they've gotten farther than anybody else before,

699
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:12,399
Speaker 1: further than anybody else before them. Um. Now, I there's

700
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: a lot of this that I find frustrating, um, including

701
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,399
Speaker 1: the fact that like I I find I'm particularly kind

702
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: of like, as we just joked about it, but there's

703
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: something really gross about quirks line that like, we're going

704
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: to draw a new map of the world with with

705
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: French Polynesia at the center in this community, we're building

706
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 1: at the center of the aquatic age because the ocean.

707
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 1: One of his the best things about the ocean is

708
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 1: that there's like, there's not a bunch of countries in

709
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 1: it murdering each other all the time and doing other

710
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: horrible things. It's mostly just ocean um. And there's something

711
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,320
Speaker 1: disgusting about a person who would look at this, this

712
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 1: like vast incomprehensible expanse of water with no no borders

713
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: or walls around most of it and be like, well,

714
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 1: what have we just made it more like the places

715
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 1: where we're murdering each other exactly. It's just for the purpose. Yeah,

716
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: it's like Jeff Bezos looking at space and being like,

717
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: we should move industry here, And it's really really anyway,

718
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: My dislike of Quirk is kind of furthered by the

719
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 1: fact that he chose French Polynesia for the site of this,

720
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 1: and he chose it because it's the world's largest exclusive

721
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 1: economic zone now an exclusive economic zones basically it's a

722
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: zone that can stretch, i think up to two miles

723
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: from the coastline of a nation, where you have kind

724
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 1: of a control of what like you can levy taxes

725
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 1: and ship right like, it's it's your territory in terms

726
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,959
Speaker 1: of like what what ship passes through um and French

727
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 1: Polynesia because it's this, it's there's like up shipload of

728
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: islands in French Polynesia and it's spread over a wide

729
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: geographic area. They have the largest exclusive economic zone in

730
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: the world. So potentially you could monetize a lot of

731
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: this more than it is currently being monetized. And that

732
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 1: was kind of the goal these people had right um

733
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: So Tom Bell, a professor of law in Orange County,

734
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: drafted a contract for an agreement with the government of

735
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 1: French Polynesia. He told reporters, we explained to the Polynesians

736
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: how having a quasi autonomous area nearby was a good thing.

737
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: Look at Monaco or Hong Kong or Singapore. Special jurisdictions

738
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: create a lot of growth outside their borders, like Quirk.

739
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: Bell also has a book about how people are going

740
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 1: to start making their own sea cities for reasons besides

741
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: tax haven. He theorizes that the first sea stead state

742
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: will grow like a coral polyp and be so economically

743
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: successful that it will enrich the whole area until it

744
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: breaks free to live on the open ocean. So again

745
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 1: he's saying that, like, we're gonna start this thing in

746
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 1: French Polynesia. It's going to be a huge economic hit.

747
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: It's gonna make a bunch of money and grow larger

748
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: and larger, and eventually we'll just sail away from French

749
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: Polynesia and abandon them because we'll be big enough that

750
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 1: we won't have to have the protection of a state anymore,

751
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:47,479
Speaker 1: which is kind of shitty to French Polynesia because French

752
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,959
Speaker 1: Polynesia is one of the country's most threatened by climate change.

753
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: Huge chunks of French Polynesia will cease to exist in

754
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: the not distant future as a result of rising sea levels,

755
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 1: and Quirk and Bell are basically saying, Hey, we want

756
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,760
Speaker 1: to come into your country, pollute the water, spew carbon

757
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 1: into the atmosphere, speed up the rate at which your

758
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: islands sink, and do that in order to power our

759
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 1: bitcoin mining rigs. And then once we get rich and

760
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: have a big island, we're gonna sail it away and

761
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: you guys can deal with it. Right. It's like it's

762
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: pretty cool. Yeah, It's like Tony Soprando giving someone alone,

763
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: where it's like I'm gonna We're gonna take as much

764
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: as we can from you, and then we're gonna toss

765
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 1: you out. That's it. We we we got what we

766
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 1: needed and now yeah, and now we're gonna bounce. And

767
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: so it's like it's a short term solution for that

768
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: country probably, or at least that's how they view it.

769
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: And then it's they're just gonna get used up. Yeah,

770
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 1: it's really shitty. Again, it defeats the entire purpose because

771
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: it's like, look, if you're gonna be shitty and use

772
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: up resources and and and just ruin the world, just

773
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 1: do that here in the US. Like what's the point. Yeah,

774
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 1: Like you already have the ability to do most of

775
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 1: these shitty You can funk over French Polynesia without traveling there.

776
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 1: Every day Americans funk over French Polynesia. Likely you're you

777
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: there's you have a variety of options for for harming

778
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: the nation of French Polynesia without leaving your home. I

779
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 1: hurt French Polynesia this morning when I opened a can

780
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: of soda. Yeah, that's true. It was so easy. It's

781
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 1: so incredibly easy to harm French Polynesia. And then you

782
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 1: also got some soda out of it. And I got

783
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 1: some soda out of it. Yeah. Um anyway, so uh

784
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: as is probably obvious by the fact that it was

785
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: obvious to us what a bad deal this was. It

786
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: was obvious to French Polynesia. The government like agreed to

787
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: sit down and talk to them a little bit. And

788
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: the government agreed because the former Minister of Tourism for

789
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,919
Speaker 1: French Polynesia, Mark Collins co founded a company called Blue

790
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: Frontiers with Joke wirk Um in order to like create

791
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: the project. Um. So that's that's I think why there

792
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: was some initial buy in that the government had, but

793
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: that quickly ended. And I'm going to read from the

794
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,720
Speaker 1: Guardian here. The government was looking for something to address

795
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: sea level rise in environment all degradation, whereas the c

796
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: Setting Steading Institute was more about autonomy. Mark Collins says.

797
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: He says that the prospect of a tax free enclave

798
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 1: held little appeal for the locals, given that Polynesians don't

799
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: pay income tax anyway. One Tahitian TV host compared the

800
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: situation to the evil Galactic Empire in Star Wars, imposing

801
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,399
Speaker 1: on the innocent Ewoks while secretly building the Death Star.

802
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: The libertarian position didn't help either, As Collins Chin put it,

803
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: it's very difficult to ask for government support when your

804
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:29,919
Speaker 1: narrative is that you want to get rid of politicians.

805
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 1: In retrospect, Bell agrees they already had a beautiful paradise

806
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: in French Polynesia. The local community wasn't very enthused about

807
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: the project, and I get it. They don't need strangers

808
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: coming in and ruining their view, which you got that eventually, buddy. Um.

809
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: It sounds like for the most part they weren't they

810
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:51,439
Speaker 1: weren't buying what they were selling. Well, we'll sit down

811
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,959
Speaker 1: with you. I think there may have been some money

812
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 1: that changed hands, because there were people in the government

813
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 1: who were initially kind of bullish on this, and then

814
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: there were protests in the streets over it, like yeah,

815
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: people being like what about our fishing areas, like what

816
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: like this is such a bad like people like this

817
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: is obviously a terrible idea, and the government quickly backed off.

818
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 1: They were like, no, it's not it's and then they

819
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 1: thought for a second, They're like, okay, never mind this time,

820
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 1: everybody sorry. So with Blue Frontiers, the company that they

821
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: were going to colonize the ocean around the French Polynesia

822
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 1: with Um, when that fails, Colin's chin goes off to

823
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 1: set start yet another C city project. Um and he

824
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 1: claims to have given up and Collin again like the

825
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: guy from the government who had been working with him. Um. Yeah,

826
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: uh so Colin's chin starts another C city project. Um

827
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: and he this one is a lot savvier, And I

828
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: think he might actually succeed to an extent because he

829
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 1: claims to have given up on the idea that libertarian

830
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 1: tax dodge is a good basis for a civilization, and

831
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: he instead founded an organization with the goal of making

832
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: floating cities that are extensions of existing cities and thus

833
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: pay taxes as normal. Basically like, hey, real estate is

834
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 1: expensive in San Francisco. What if we build a floating

835
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,879
Speaker 1: city right right in the right outside of the Bay.

836
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:09,839
Speaker 1: What if we build a floating city on the side

837
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 1: of New York And like that's that's the thing he's

838
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:13,839
Speaker 1: trying to sell, which is like, yeah, ship that might

839
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 1: work someday, something like that might exist one of these

840
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: days to deal with a variety of things. Yeah, that's

841
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 1: gonna say. It might have to exist, so it may

842
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 1: be inevitable. Yeah. It's just very funny that this whole

843
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:28,320
Speaker 1: this it feels like one long negotiation this history that

844
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 1: has reduced to like, okay, it's extension of city outside.

845
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,720
Speaker 1: Yeah what if what if it is the same laws

846
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 1: as San Francisco, California, But we have waves. You know, Honestly,

847
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: if they if they do it and then they're like

848
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 1: we won, it's like good for you man, Yeah, good

849
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 1: for you guys. Good work. Yeah. And yeah that that

850
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like a new type of government or something revolutionary.

851
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 1: It just seems like a neat thing we could do

852
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 1: the city. And also it's a it's a mix of

853
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 1: neat thing we could do and thing we may have

854
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: to do because of how badly we fucked up other things. Yeah,

855
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: you know what if more people are living in the ocean,

856
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,760
Speaker 1: maybe those are people who'd be like, hey, stop throwing

857
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 1: stuff in here. Yeah. I just checked the ocean and

858
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: it turns out it's not good here. Along with all

859
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 1: the monsters that's filled with there's a lot of garbage.

860
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,799
Speaker 1: Like that's the thing is if if any of them

861
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:30,479
Speaker 1: came on it from sustainable living and cleaning up because

862
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,840
Speaker 1: we've were you know, there's all these prototypes and stuff

863
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: of like ways to clean up the ocean and stuff.

864
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: I feel like everybody would be like way more into this.

865
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: If they're like, if we're gonna look out there, we're

866
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 1: gonna do some online gambling, but also we're going to

867
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,959
Speaker 1: pick up all your trash and if and that's also

868
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: a good way to make money or to be sustainable,

869
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: where like the you can get help from other countries

870
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: because they're like they're cleaning up our trash, we should

871
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 1: support them. But again, it all starts from this very

872
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: selfish place. Yeah, it's extremely selfish. Um, it's silly, and

873
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: it's a bummer because again, as we keep coming back to,

874
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 1: there's cool ideas. So Chin's idea for for these cities

875
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: that are extensions of regular cities but in the waters

876
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:23,320
Speaker 1: to create a series of interlocking hexagonal islands which harvest

877
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,839
Speaker 1: power from waves in sunlight and regenerate marine life through

878
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: an artificial reef system. And a lot of these different

879
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 1: sea stetting plants today will say like and we'll grow

880
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 1: back the reefs. It will provide a habitat for the animals.

881
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: If they actually do it, that would be cool. Yeah.

882
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 1: He calls his idea oceanic city. Um, and he claims

883
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 1: that the hexagonal design allows for dragon drop city designing

884
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 1: just like in sim city, so you can like flow

885
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:49,320
Speaker 1: to city, block it away and stick it in a

886
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 1: new place, or just like drop a hospital or a university,

887
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: you know, in the middle of a thing. Um And yeah,

888
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: I I think aspects of this dream uh might be

889
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: real listic. And I think in general, one of the

890
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 1: things that's changed from now to the earlier days and

891
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: like the seventies and then the nineties of this is

892
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 1: that better technology stuff like three D printers means like

893
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,720
Speaker 1: you could do this, Like this isn't like the Mars colony,

894
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 1: where we're like, well, Ellen, it may not actually be

895
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,399
Speaker 1: possible to do what you're talking about. At our current

896
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 1: level of technology any in any reasonable capacity, we could

897
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 1: absolutely build like semi autonomous sea habitats that people lived

898
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: on and were modular, Like that's not physically impossible. Um.

899
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 1: And as a result, the kind of libertarian dreams of

900
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 1: c stetting have gone from The first ones were all grifts, right,

901
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 1: There were attempts to raise money in order to like

902
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 1: get money, and nobody actually wanted to build anything. Um. Well,

903
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: now that's kind of changed, and you're starting to get

904
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 1: the first libertarian c setting advocates who believe in something

905
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: and are actually willing to risk everything they have to

906
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: try and set up a life at sea. That's fantastic. Yeah,

907
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:01,280
Speaker 1: because the grift that the thing that they were promising

908
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: in the grift not a bad idea, but they were

909
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 1: just doing a grift. So it does make sense for

910
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 1: someone to come along and be like, but what if

911
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: we actually did it? What if we tried? Yeah, these

912
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 1: new things you're talking about, it's just so much more realistic.

913
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 1: It reminds me of playing like Minecraft or Valheim or

914
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: any survival game where it's like you build a base

915
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 1: and then if you want to funk off and make

916
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 1: a new base in the ocean, for example, you can't

917
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 1: just like start again, you move your resources. Um, you

918
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 1: you build it as part of it. And that's what

919
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:35,799
Speaker 1: they're getting at here, which is like they the first

920
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 1: ideas was like clean break, we're doing our own thing,

921
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 1: and it's like you kind of can't do that, like

922
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: don't print your own money immediately, Like like this, the

923
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,240
Speaker 1: idea of building a city off of an existing city

924
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,919
Speaker 1: is a good compromise. If they actually do the things

925
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: that they're saying they can do, it's it's realistic. Yeah,

926
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 1: and it's um, that's kind of why you're you've seen

927
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: so far just one, well, no three now, But the

928
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 1: first people who have actually done the opposite of a

929
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 1: grift lost huge amounts of money trying to create societies

930
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 1: at sea um. And the first of these guys, and

931
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:14,919
Speaker 1: the one who put the most skin in the game,

932
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: is Chad l Wartowski. Chad is a lifelong libertarian. From

933
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 1: the information available, at least, it seems like he got

934
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,439
Speaker 1: his start as a student at Michigan State University in ninet.

935
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: His first election was Bill Clinton's re election, and Chad

936
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 1: attended his speech by the president and found himself disturbed

937
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 1: not by any of the sex crime stuff, but by

938
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 1: Bill Clintons spending quote. He's talking about investing in this,

939
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: investing in that, investing in that. I knew investing was

940
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 1: code word for we're going to be spending money on this.

941
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 1: Chad believed that the country needed to spend less and

942
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 1: tax its people less. He spent time briefly agitating for

943
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: the Free State Project and the Ron Paul campaign. In

944
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:56,399
Speaker 1: two thousand and two, after graduation, he got a job

945
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,439
Speaker 1: as a software engineer in Georgia. Chad made a stab

946
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 1: at starting political life there, running for Congress once as

947
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 1: a libertarian, but he couldn't get enough signatures to get

948
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 1: on the ballot. During these years, most of Chad's political

949
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,320
Speaker 1: activism was complaining about the failure of libertarian politics to

950
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 1: take off nationwide. He was just kind of like, why

951
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 1: isn't this happened yet? Um. After years of this, he

952
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: decided that fucket, he just go out and start his

953
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 1: own settlement and live free. He spent years experimenting with

954
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:25,359
Speaker 1: different constructions methods. In his off time, he would work

955
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 1: seventeen hour days as a software contractor and then like

956
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: spend time trying to develop ways to build a sea

957
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: habitat and whatnot. In his off time, UM, he did

958
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,359
Speaker 1: a lot of like government contracting. He was in Afghanistan

959
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: for a while, like coding for the Department of Defense,

960
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 1: and he made a shipload of money UM which he

961
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 1: put into bitcoin. And in two thousand fifteen he got

962
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 1: briefly involved with a couple of people uh in a

963
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 1: project to sell c notes to try and raise fifteen

964
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 1: million dollars to make a village at sea. Only five

965
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: people invested, so the project was canceled and Chad was

966
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 1: adamant to invest or to reporters that he refunded all

967
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 1: of their money. Um, see notes sounds like a scam,

968
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 1: but maybe it wasn't. Based on what comes next, I

969
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: don't think it was. I think Chad's pretty earnest. My

970
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 1: note to Chad. If Chad's listening is it sounds like

971
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 1: he's he has some ideas. Uh, he's just not finding

972
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: people who are interested. He is not popular, it's not

973
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 1: getting enough signatures. That seems like the story of his

974
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 1: life with this stuff so far. Yes, um, and that yeah,

975
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: And I think that's that is about to change because

976
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 1: in two thou sixteen, Chad retires and he's got a

977
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,800
Speaker 1: bunch of money, um, mostly in crypto, enough that he

978
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 1: doesn't have to work anymore. So he's been some time

979
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 1: bumming around trying to find other people who will try

980
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 1: to start a society with him. Um. And he meets

981
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 1: a tour guide when he's in Thailand and they fall

982
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 1: in love and get married. Now, good for Chad. When

983
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 1: you talk about a white rich guy who travels to

984
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: Thailand and meets a tour guide and gets married, that

985
00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 1: is often a problematic story. Um, it's often horrible of

986
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 1: the time. I don't think it is this time because

987
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 1: number one, she's thirty three when they get married, so

988
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: it's not nothing questionable about it. She's got like a

989
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 1: thirteen year old kids. So like, I think he just

990
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 1: actually found someone and they fell in love and it's fine. Um. So,

991
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:20,240
Speaker 1: Chad l Wartowski, you get the official behind the bastard

992
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 1: seal of married a Thai woman while on vacation, but

993
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 1: not like in a predatory way. Award nice, are you

994
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 1: gonna mail that to him? Yeah? It's forty five pounds

995
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 1: and made of solid bronze. Um. Yeah, as it should be.

996
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 1: You know who also doesn't get married in a predatory way.

997
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 1: But I said didn't. I said didn't If it's accidentally

998
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 1: a Washington state Yeah, if it's the Washington State Patrol,

999
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:50,840
Speaker 1: they definitely at least of the time. Am I Right? Okay,

1000
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:59,919
Speaker 1: here's the ads. We're back and we're talking about robbing

1001
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 1: insured banks and Peter teal Um. Yeah, the American dream,

1002
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:10,479
Speaker 1: the American dream. Ah, I love America. So this lady

1003
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 1: Chad Jad marries a lady her name, she calls herself Nadia,

1004
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 1: a summer girl. Um, she picked a last name for

1005
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 1: herself when she left. She picked summer girl. Whatever. People

1006
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 1: make names. Yeah, no, it's it's fine. It's fine. They

1007
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 1: get married and they actually moved to French Polynesia briefly

1008
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 1: to help Blue Frontiers and their sea setting of it.

1009
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 1: So like when they're courting the government of French Polynesia,

1010
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:36,959
Speaker 1: Chad hears about this and he just moves there right away.

1011
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 1: Like again, he's incredibly earnest. He's like, oh my god,

1012
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 1: this government's actually agreed, Like I'll just I'll be I

1013
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:44,320
Speaker 1: need to move there so that when things start happening,

1014
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 1: I'm right in the middle of it. Um. Up until

1015
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 1: the end here, he's pretty endearing in some ways. Um.

1016
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 1: But yeah, the whole thing falls apart, as we just discussed,

1017
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 1: and so l Wartowski flees back to Thailand with his

1018
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 1: new bride. Uh. Next he gets in contact with a

1019
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 1: German engineer and Aimed Rudiger Kulch like Chad, libertarian Like Chad,

1020
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 1: Rudiger is a libertarian. Um, and he's a libertarian who

1021
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 1: made all of his money in like the defense industry.

1022
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:13,800
Speaker 1: He designed weapons systems before getting really into cryptocurrency and

1023
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 1: retiring to Thailand. Um. He had a dream, which he

1024
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:20,800
Speaker 1: discussed in the c Setting Institute Forum of creating a

1025
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,279
Speaker 1: launch loop, which is a huge sling shot that can

1026
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 1: throw things into space. And Rudiger Coke didn't like come

1027
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:28,800
Speaker 1: up with the idea of a launch loop. People have

1028
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 1: talked for a while about like, well, you wouldn't actually

1029
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: need like all the fuel and stuff that you need

1030
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:35,880
Speaker 1: if you could build a big enough slingshot type thing

1031
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 1: to just like launch stuff into the into the atmosphere.

1032
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 1: And this is like just like throwing like cows, and like,

1033
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 1: I think spaceships mostly, Dave. I think they're really shooting

1034
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 1: for spaceships. I think that's a waste. What would you

1035
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 1: flick into space? It's just whatever I want space to have,

1036
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:57,399
Speaker 1: you know, like confused some aliens and throwing he pop

1037
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 1: out there, give him to space. Start things off on

1038
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 1: a good footing with space. That way, when space is

1039
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 1: like should we kill this planet with the media, they'll

1040
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: be like, not the guys that gave us Iggy right.

1041
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 1: I want the first contact aliens have with our species

1042
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 1: to be their UFO slamming into Iggy Pop. Yeah. Like

1043
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: that's when I'm like, oh my god, we hit something

1044
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:21,919
Speaker 1: pull over and then it's Iggy Pop yeah and Frozen yeah,

1045
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 1: and and a single copy of one of the Stooges

1046
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 1: albums that'll set things off right honestly, Yeah, yeah, that's

1047
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 1: perfect idea, perfect idea. So Coke wants to build a

1048
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 1: launch loop, um, which a thing. I think it's a

1049
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 1: thing that could potentially work. Like, I think it's a

1050
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 1: thing where like astronautical engineers were like, well, yeah, tech,

1051
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: you could make something technically that would work this way

1052
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 1: and it might be a good idea, um, but no

1053
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 1: one had ever built it because it requires an enormous

1054
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 1: amount of space, so much that you could only really

1055
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:56,719
Speaker 1: do it in the ocean. Um. Sorry, it's a catapult. Yeah,

1056
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:00,799
Speaker 1: it's like it's like cotes, so just like fling shit

1057
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 1: into the stars. Incredible. Yeah, it's a cool idea. I

1058
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 1: don't I don't know how actually practical it is, but

1059
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 1: a bunch of people think it is. And yeah, honestly

1060
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:13,360
Speaker 1: it's more sustainable right than you're doing now. If you

1061
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:14,960
Speaker 1: could do it, it seems like it would be a

1062
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 1: good idea potentially. Um. Coke is like, well, we have

1063
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,439
Speaker 1: to do it in the ocean, and so he makes

1064
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 1: a deal with Chad that they'll they'll pick a spot

1065
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 1: and they're gonna have to for this launch loop. Build

1066
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 1: a watch tower, right, so you can watch the launches.

1067
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 1: And so Coke is like, hey, you go and you

1068
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 1: help me fund this. You just live in the watch tower,

1069
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 1: you get your thing, you get to start c setting

1070
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 1: and I can use that as a base to make

1071
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 1: my my loop. Right. Um, So both men get get

1072
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 1: on board a project together and again most promising, they

1073
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 1: have a goal other than just like avoid taxes. And

1074
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 1: it's a little maybe outside of their means, but at

1075
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 1: least it's a goal. At least it's a dream beyond

1076
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 1: avoid taxes. Um. No, I just had a realization of

1077
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 1: all of this. All these guys because we've been talking

1078
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: about the idea of like they keep framing it as

1079
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 1: we should start a society, but ultimately it's just that

1080
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 1: they want to live a certain way. Yeah. Um, and

1081
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 1: that's part of the problem. I think it's an issue

1082
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 1: with libertarian in general, which is like you need to

1083
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 1: show how this would benefit people in general. Know what,

1084
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 1: it's just occurred to me. They all just want to

1085
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 1: be lighthouse keepers. That's it. That's the answer. Just be

1086
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 1: a lighthouse keeper and you're all set enough lighthouses, Dave,

1087
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:30,040
Speaker 1: I know we need to bring back or lighthouses. Uh,

1088
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 1: and then we'll solve libertarians. That's that's Joe Biden's next

1089
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 1: big spending Billy trillion dollars for lighthouses. Yeah, that's it.

1090
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 1: That's all we need. So Chad and Uh and Coke

1091
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 1: like decided to form a company in order to build

1092
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 1: this launch loop and a community around it. They name

1093
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 1: their company Ocean Builders, and their plan is to sell

1094
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:52,959
Speaker 1: twenty or so pods at least and kind of build

1095
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 1: a community around this launch loop. And I think the

1096
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 1: idea is, like, Hey, if we actually build like a

1097
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 1: space launch facility, you're gonna want to live around that.

1098
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:02,240
Speaker 1: There's going to be a bunch of money around that.

1099
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 1: There's a whole lot of businesses that like people could do.

1100
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 1: And you know, it's not the worst of the ideas

1101
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 1: people have had in this episode, it's the best. So

1102
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 1: they build a prototype and they tow it into international waters, unflagged,

1103
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 1: transmitting nothing off the coast of Thailand. Edwardtowski had eventually

1104
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: had initially tried to keep a low profile, and he

1105
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 1: wanted to He didn't want to make a big deal

1106
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:26,720
Speaker 1: about it until things got established, but he also wanted

1107
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 1: to work with the c Steading Institute on the project,

1108
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 1: and once they heard a guy had actually made a

1109
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 1: c stead, like there's a dude living in the ocean

1110
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 1: off of a platform and international waters, they sent their

1111
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 1: president out to film a documentary about him. As The

1112
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: Guardian rites, it was not a stirring success, but also

1113
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 1: not a failure. More importantly, it was real, making chad

1114
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 1: Our first not a grifter of the episode. Due to

1115
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 1: a construction snaphoo, the pod listed ten degrees on stormy nights,

1116
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:57,640
Speaker 1: Elwartowski in Summer Girl abandoned the tiny bedroom and slept

1117
00:59:57,680 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 1: in the kitchen as close as possible to the central

1118
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 1: spar A grocery run was a four day affair, and

1119
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 1: since there was nothing outside the c stead to park

1120
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 1: a boat, Coke had to pick them up. They sometimes

1121
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 1: stayed on shore instead, in an apartment in Fouquet that

1122
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 1: el Wartowski had rented for Summer Girls mother and fourteen

1123
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:17,479
Speaker 1: year old son. So this is not easy. They're they're

1124
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 1: really committed to this, like you have to give it

1125
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 1: to him. These are believers. This is not a grift.

1126
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 1: You would not live that way for a grift. That's

1127
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 1: a that's a nightmare. That that sounds fucking miserable. Yeah. Um,

1128
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 1: I found an article on news BTC, which is a

1129
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 1: bitcoin in crypto news website, about Chad and Summer Girls

1130
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 1: establishment of the first actual libertarian c stead. It was

1131
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 1: published in the spring of two thousand nineteen, after the

1132
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: first episodes of the documentary about the effort came out.

1133
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:46,800
Speaker 1: This article mostly celebrates that Chad used bitcoin profits to

1134
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:50,440
Speaker 1: build his new home. It includes this line. El Wartowski

1135
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:52,520
Speaker 1: states that the couple has made no effort to seek

1136
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 1: approval from the Thai government for their new home. He commented,

1137
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 1: We've just been keeping under the radar so far, but

1138
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 1: we follow all the laws of Thailand, so it's as

1139
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 1: if we're just living on a boat in the water.

1140
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 1: As far as they're concerned, all we expect from the

1141
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 1: Thai government is that they follow international law. We will

1142
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:09,040
Speaker 1: be doing the same. But Nadia and I aren't doing

1143
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 1: anything we can't do on land. So you think that worked, Dave,

1144
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 1: I mean, it's again, it's just that they're they're just

1145
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 1: living in the ocean like it doesn't feel like they've

1146
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:24,400
Speaker 1: built a libertarian society. Here's the thing, you know, who

1147
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:28,520
Speaker 1: took this seriously is the Thai government. Um, so in

1148
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 1: Thailand you can go to prison for forever if you

1149
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 1: like make fun of the king. Um. Right, you can

1150
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 1: get executed for for smuggling drugs. It's not a chill government. Thailand.

1151
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:43,760
Speaker 1: Government tightly wound is They're a little tightly wound, right.

1152
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: They don't like people just existing in their ocean. Yeah,

1153
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:50,320
Speaker 1: they don't like some guys starting his own nation off

1154
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 1: of their coast that they did not. They were not

1155
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:55,920
Speaker 1: okay with this. I mean in fairness. Like if I

1156
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 1: had a yard and then someone was like, look, I'm

1157
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:01,680
Speaker 1: just existing in your yard yard, I'd be like, maybe

1158
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 1: get off my yard. Yeah, Like, I'll talk to you,

1159
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 1: I'll see if you're cool, but maybe get off my y.

1160
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 1: They're like, it's cool. I'm a libertarian, and I'm like,

1161
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 1: I'm I'm calling the cops. But actually I'm not going

1162
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 1: to call the cops because that doesn't help. But yes,

1163
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 1: yeah I will. I will have a drone. Thank you.

1164
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 1: By the way, Sorry, quick aside. This is called ocean Builder. Yeah,

1165
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 1: what's all the name? Spend there was like ocean the

1166
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 1: utopianis Oceania. It just occurred to me. They all sound

1167
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 1: like sim builder games. They do all sound like video

1168
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 1: games that what's his name? The game made the sims, Yeah,

1169
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 1: they all sound like that, anything like that. So the

1170
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 1: Thai government finds out because he keeps doing press that

1171
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:51,920
Speaker 1: he's living illegally, maybe off of the coast of their nation. Again,

1172
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 1: the legal situation here is kind of unclear, um, but

1173
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:58,280
Speaker 1: the Thai government is not chill about it. And in

1174
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:00,919
Speaker 1: April of two, nineteen summer, a girl gets a text

1175
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:03,040
Speaker 1: from a friend back on the mainland that she and

1176
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 1: her new husband are on TV. The Thai Navy had

1177
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 1: judged their platform to be in a legal breakaway state

1178
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:12,840
Speaker 1: and a threat to tie sovereignty and threatening Thaie sovereignty

1179
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:15,120
Speaker 1: is a capital crime. They could both be given the

1180
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 1: death sentence for this. Oh my god. Also, there's never

1181
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:20,840
Speaker 1: a good time to be surprised by the text you're

1182
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:24,360
Speaker 1: on TV, Like I would never be like, oh yeah,

1183
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 1: like you want to know if you're going to be

1184
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:27,720
Speaker 1: on TV. You don't want to be shocked by that.

1185
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 1: And and here's the thing, Um, Chad is an an

1186
01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:35,760
Speaker 1: archo capitalist and when the when he gets reached out

1187
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 1: to by the media, like, hey, what do you think

1188
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 1: about the Thai government threatening to to like saying that

1189
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 1: you're a threat to their sovereignty. He like, he goes

1190
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 1: into an ideological explanation. He's like, well, I don't believe

1191
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:48,360
Speaker 1: in nations or borders, so obviously I'm not trying to

1192
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 1: create a breakaway nation. Like that's just the Thai government

1193
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 1: does not by this, Like, you're not going to convince

1194
01:03:56,120 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 1: the Thaie government that that anarcho capitalism is the thing, Chad.

1195
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:04,400
Speaker 1: They're just not going to listen. And they don't. I've

1196
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 1: never once been able to leave a store with a

1197
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:10,920
Speaker 1: product and pay with I don't believe in money, Like

1198
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 1: that's never been a thing they'll accept many times. They

1199
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:17,600
Speaker 1: not believed in a state, but Thailand does, and they

1200
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:21,120
Speaker 1: have a military which they send after him. Um. He

1201
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 1: and Summer Girl barely managed to escape pursuit with their lives.

1202
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 1: It's a whole deal. Um yeah, like they and they

1203
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 1: are wanted in a bunch of the world. Now they

1204
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:33,680
Speaker 1: had to travel places that didn't extradite to fucking Thailand.

1205
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 1: Um and it's it's it's actually kind of an interesting

1206
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 1: story you can find in that Guardian article. But to

1207
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:41,520
Speaker 1: make a long story short, the place they land next

1208
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:44,840
Speaker 1: is Panama. Now, over the course of late two thousand nineteen,

1209
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 1: after fleeing for their lives, Chad and Summer Girl had

1210
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 1: sat down with Coke via the Space Slingshot Guy in

1211
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 1: Panama and another guy, Grant romant Um. Now Grant is

1212
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:58,320
Speaker 1: the former host of a TV show for hairstylists, UM

1213
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 1: who has made CEO. Once they meet Grant, this hair stylist,

1214
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 1: they make him CEO of Ocean Builders fairly shortly UM.

1215
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:09,080
Speaker 1: And from what I can tell, he did have one

1216
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:11,880
Speaker 1: real qualification, which is that in the nineties, before his

1217
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:14,120
Speaker 1: hair stylist days, I guess he had worked on the

1218
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 1: freedom Ship project in Florida. UM, so he had he

1219
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 1: had that experience. He worked on a grift Um. The

1220
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:23,680
Speaker 1: first two qualifications on his company bio where that he

1221
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 1: had he had quote one of the most advanced mobile

1222
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 1: paperless offices in Canada in nine and that he had

1223
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 1: also quote lived in a tech frat house in San

1224
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:36,440
Speaker 1: Francisco with one of the six co founders of PayPal.

1225
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:40,480
Speaker 1: So literally the top two lines and his resume are

1226
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:44,040
Speaker 1: I I ran an office in Canada once and I

1227
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:46,600
Speaker 1: used to live in a frat house. I lived with

1228
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 1: some people. Yeah, it's amazing. It's an incredible incredible plex

1229
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:54,640
Speaker 1: all of these this it is a like a pattern, right,

1230
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 1: not just with this, but a lot of your episodes

1231
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:00,200
Speaker 1: where if you look at their like employment history three,

1232
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 1: it's like it's like like managed to terry queen one

1233
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:08,320
Speaker 1: year later, tried to start a government and like it's

1234
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 1: it's just again. I I sort of get it. Frustrated

1235
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 1: people are just like, you know what, I'm just gonna

1236
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 1: hit the reset button. But it never works. It never does.

1237
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:23,120
Speaker 1: So he had had this guy Grant, who they pick

1238
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 1: as their CEOs. They all meet up in Panama and

1239
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:30,920
Speaker 1: uh Coke introduces these two run now fleeing from the

1240
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:33,680
Speaker 1: Thaie government to Grant, and they're like, well this guy

1241
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:37,960
Speaker 1: should run our fucking business. Um Now, Grant was like,

1242
01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 1: all of these people independently wealthy, right, That's the other thing.

1243
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 1: These are all like independently wealthy, rich people with nothing

1244
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:46,480
Speaker 1: else to do. Um. And this is the first one

1245
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:48,640
Speaker 1: I respect because at least Chad put some skin in

1246
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:53,360
Speaker 1: the game. So together, independently wealthy, it often feels like

1247
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:57,080
Speaker 1: it means they had wealthy they're from a wealthy family.

1248
01:06:57,240 --> 01:06:59,000
Speaker 1: I think it probably in a lot of cases. I

1249
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:01,120
Speaker 1: don't know, I I don't know as much about all

1250
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 1: of their early lives, because there's not always a lot

1251
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 1: on these people. There's not like super detailed wikipedias and

1252
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 1: stuff disappear, and that you have what they say to

1253
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:13,280
Speaker 1: journalists about their background. So we know that UM, l Wartowski,

1254
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:15,720
Speaker 1: Grant and Coke put a bunch of money into setting

1255
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:17,640
Speaker 1: up a land base in Panama where they were going

1256
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:19,920
Speaker 1: to invest in technology. They'd figure out how to three

1257
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:23,240
Speaker 1: D print the things they need and design submarine drones

1258
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:26,120
Speaker 1: and the like. And UM, I do think they put

1259
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:28,680
Speaker 1: a lot of money into this. Again, they're not grifters.

1260
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:31,360
Speaker 1: I don't think they do actually believe, or at least

1261
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:36,000
Speaker 1: some of them believe. L Wartowski certainly does. UM. Unfortunately,

1262
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:38,040
Speaker 1: what they believed in was not freedom so much as

1263
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 1: it was a specific freedom to take ownership of a

1264
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:44,760
Speaker 1: thing not currently owned and exploited for profit. The Guardian

1265
01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 1: makes it clear that their ideology, while less fraudulent than

1266
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 1: their predecessors, was still deeply problematic. Quote in the nineteen essay,

1267
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:55,080
Speaker 1: Wayne Graham, Like a founder of the c Stetting Institute,

1268
01:07:55,160 --> 01:07:57,320
Speaker 1: noted that the Frontier was settled not by a few

1269
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:00,760
Speaker 1: well financed parties, but by tens of thousands of smaller groups.

1270
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:03,560
Speaker 1: These homesteaders were granted the legal right to a plot

1271
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 1: of land so long as they built a house and

1272
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:08,080
Speaker 1: farmed for five years. As they converted the landscape, they

1273
01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 1: laid the foundations for today's continent spanning United States. Grahamlick

1274
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:15,240
Speaker 1: wanted to find technologies that would allow individuals to similarly

1275
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:18,759
Speaker 1: colonize the sea. Quirk to discusses the U. S Frontier

1276
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:21,280
Speaker 1: in his book c Stetting. It was a place, he notes,

1277
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:24,120
Speaker 1: where leaders liberally doled out rights as they complete peded

1278
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:27,640
Speaker 1: for new citizens. Western states did away with voting eligibility

1279
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:31,240
Speaker 1: requirements based on landownership or tax payment, Quirk says, and

1280
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:33,680
Speaker 1: Wyoming offered women the right to vote before anywhere else

1281
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:36,559
Speaker 1: in the United States, in part because the territory needed

1282
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:39,760
Speaker 1: women to marry its abundant bachelor's. When the topic comes

1283
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:42,479
Speaker 1: up during my time in Panama, Coke claims that frontier

1284
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:46,080
Speaker 1: initiatives helped make the nineteenth century probably the freest century

1285
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:50,360
Speaker 1: we've ever had in human history. That's what I think about.

1286
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:54,600
Speaker 1: The eighteen hundreds very free in the United States. A

1287
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:58,720
Speaker 1: lot of free people walking around. Yeah, it's just like,

1288
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:02,960
Speaker 1: look at all those free people there's that romanticizing the

1289
01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 1: olden times, uh, where it's like, yeah, I mean, that's

1290
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:09,120
Speaker 1: what we had to do. It's just not we don't

1291
01:09:09,360 --> 01:09:13,880
Speaker 1: do that now because we did it already, Like we

1292
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:16,880
Speaker 1: can't we can't go out into the frontier and do that.

1293
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:20,720
Speaker 1: It's just the world. The reason that could happen is

1294
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 1: because you couldn't get in a plane and like go somewhere.

1295
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:26,719
Speaker 1: You'd have to be like, yeah, everybody go out into

1296
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 1: this area, start their own thing, and we'll catch up

1297
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 1: to you. Yeah. Well, you know, like that's just the

1298
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 1: only way to do that. And it's it's such a

1299
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,559
Speaker 1: he's coming at it from such a myopic, like white

1300
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:42,800
Speaker 1: dude focused view of of the way the history went,

1301
01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:45,120
Speaker 1: like even and even by that standard, for a huge

1302
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:47,840
Speaker 1: chunk like the first third of the nineteenth century in

1303
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:51,200
Speaker 1: the United States, white men didn't have the right to

1304
01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:54,800
Speaker 1: vote universally right, like there were property requirements for a

1305
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:56,880
Speaker 1: lot of the country. I think was Andrew Jackson that

1306
01:09:56,920 --> 01:10:00,640
Speaker 1: ship changed under um and then for they're forgetting like

1307
01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:04,560
Speaker 1: you know, there were people already there a side that

1308
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:06,519
Speaker 1: preceded it, and I guess you don't have that with

1309
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:08,880
Speaker 1: the sea except for you do have cetaceans and like

1310
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:12,560
Speaker 1: all other kinds of you still have, yeah, exploitation, have

1311
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:16,479
Speaker 1: you have marine life? He's again, you learn a lot

1312
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:18,880
Speaker 1: about this guy. He's calling the eighteen hundreds the freest

1313
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 1: century in human history. Women couldn't vote in the US

1314
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 1: for any of that time, and black people were slaves

1315
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:29,479
Speaker 1: for almost It's only a thing a white guy can say.

1316
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:33,599
Speaker 1: It's that again, that obsession, the idea of like, oh,

1317
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 1: what would the founding fathers think about X? Or why?

1318
01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:38,439
Speaker 1: And it's like, I don't give a ship what they

1319
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:42,240
Speaker 1: have to think? Like they give what would Julius Caesar

1320
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:45,320
Speaker 1: think about doing this? Like you know who gives a ship?

1321
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:47,800
Speaker 1: He's dead? Yeah. Also, I don't give a ship with

1322
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:52,000
Speaker 1: old people. Like the progress the whole ideas we're moving forward,

1323
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 1: and part of that is not giving a ship with

1324
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 1: the people before us thought and recognizing that they sucked. Yeah,

1325
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:01,760
Speaker 1: that's the lesson you should learn at age eighteen, but

1326
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:05,920
Speaker 1: sometimes takes longer. So there was of course weird tax

1327
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:08,479
Speaker 1: stuff wrapped up in in the plan these guys were

1328
01:11:08,520 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 1: cooking up. That's a factor in all of these Like

1329
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:13,240
Speaker 1: they're still they still have their their pitches about how

1330
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:15,800
Speaker 1: it's going to be a tax haven, UM, and that's

1331
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:17,719
Speaker 1: why the group moved to Panama in the first place,

1332
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:21,800
Speaker 1: right to avoid taxes. When Ocean Builders started advertising sea

1333
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:25,560
Speaker 1: pods for sale, UM, they were I think serious. I

1334
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:27,840
Speaker 1: don't think it's a grift. I think this is the

1335
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:29,680
Speaker 1: first one that they really I don't think they'll ever

1336
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:32,479
Speaker 1: build any but I think they mean to. So the

1337
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:35,240
Speaker 1: sea pods that l Wartowski and the others are selling

1338
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:38,600
Speaker 1: our luxury sea homes, UM I found them described in

1339
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:41,639
Speaker 1: one article is looking like giant motorbike helmets on poles,

1340
01:11:41,760 --> 01:11:43,439
Speaker 1: which is not a bad way off. They look like

1341
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:45,960
Speaker 1: the Jetsons house houses a little bit, but coming out

1342
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:48,920
Speaker 1: of the ocean UM. They put a lot of money

1343
01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:51,880
Speaker 1: into designing their website, which has some lovely renders and

1344
01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:55,559
Speaker 1: succeeds in making these pods look like new tech industry releases.

1345
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:58,760
Speaker 1: The Apple is heavily and influence here, like they're trying

1346
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:00,720
Speaker 1: to make it look like that as opposed to like

1347
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:05,280
Speaker 1: frontier ship like the future. That said, when you read

1348
01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:09,120
Speaker 1: through their marketing materials, there's actually some unintentionally horrifying things

1349
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:13,040
Speaker 1: like this. The native pod software can be upgraded remotely

1350
01:12:13,080 --> 01:12:15,639
Speaker 1: and new sensors or automat and automations can be easily

1351
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:18,120
Speaker 1: hot swapped. The pod will be like a mobile phone

1352
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:20,599
Speaker 1: where you can install new home maps that are constantly

1353
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:23,880
Speaker 1: being developed. So that sounds great, right, What if your

1354
01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:27,519
Speaker 1: home was in the middle of the ocean and also

1355
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:30,120
Speaker 1: worked like your phone. Hey, you want to live in

1356
01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:33,559
Speaker 1: a tech nightmare suspended above the ocean. You know how

1357
01:12:33,640 --> 01:12:36,160
Speaker 1: your phone works perfectly all the time and you love it.

1358
01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:38,160
Speaker 1: What if your house was like that, and also if

1359
01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:41,000
Speaker 1: anything went wrong, you drowned. Right, It's the thing that

1360
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 1: we we said in one of these episodes, which is

1361
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:47,280
Speaker 1: like the ultimate goal. It's successful, it's still something I'm

1362
01:12:47,320 --> 01:12:50,400
Speaker 1: not interested in. It's it's like it's the same with Mars,

1363
01:12:50,439 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 1: where it's like, hey, you want to live on this

1364
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:54,840
Speaker 1: dead planet or you can't go outside, and it's like

1365
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:57,920
Speaker 1: not really, I might live on the sea and the

1366
01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:01,200
Speaker 1: right circumstance, but it's not a bunch of sterile techie

1367
01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:04,800
Speaker 1: looking pots. It would literally, yeah, on a sea. Like

1368
01:13:05,160 --> 01:13:08,519
Speaker 1: the like said before, the worst case scenario is a

1369
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:12,400
Speaker 1: bunch of drownings. But honestly, that is the best version

1370
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:15,760
Speaker 1: of dying in the ocean. Yes, Like, like that is

1371
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:19,240
Speaker 1: the that is baseline. That is like, if you're drowning,

1372
01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:21,920
Speaker 1: you're like, oh good, I'm glad I'm drowning and not

1373
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:25,400
Speaker 1: getting eaten by a monster, because that is also on

1374
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:31,080
Speaker 1: the table. There are literal monsters in there, fucking monsters

1375
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 1: like love Craft I and looking demons that will that

1376
01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:38,400
Speaker 1: will eat you or or try to have sex with

1377
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:40,760
Speaker 1: you if they're a dolphin. It's just the the end

1378
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 1: goal is not appealing to me. Yeah, I mean it's not.

1379
01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:46,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, uh that that that's that's I guess

1380
01:13:47,040 --> 01:13:50,400
Speaker 1: a taste thing. You know, different people appeal for different things,

1381
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:52,599
Speaker 1: but the way in which they're specifically trying to sell

1382
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:55,560
Speaker 1: this is just horrifying to me. Like the fact that

1383
01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:58,280
Speaker 1: it will work like your phone, well, that's not very attractive.

1384
01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:00,719
Speaker 1: My phone is a piece of shit. No one wants

1385
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:03,880
Speaker 1: to live in a smart home yet until we actually

1386
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:06,240
Speaker 1: figure out a way for that to work, especially not

1387
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:09,120
Speaker 1: one on the sea. It's the same with Tesla, where

1388
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:11,920
Speaker 1: they're like, have instead of all these dials and stuff,

1389
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:14,760
Speaker 1: have a screen, And I'm like, I don't feel good

1390
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:17,760
Speaker 1: about that. Even if it works, I'm not Maybe the

1391
01:14:17,880 --> 01:14:20,719
Speaker 1: kids under me will be okay with that. I'm still

1392
01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:24,679
Speaker 1: I'm too old to be okay with that. I'm certainly

1393
01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:27,120
Speaker 1: not okay with that. And also in the damn ocean,

1394
01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:29,639
Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, I'm not an expert on building

1395
01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:32,320
Speaker 1: things in the ocean, but all of their renders are

1396
01:14:32,360 --> 01:14:35,439
Speaker 1: like these smooth, white, curved products that look like again

1397
01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:40,080
Speaker 1: like apple gadgets, and all of the permanent sea structures

1398
01:14:40,120 --> 01:14:43,280
Speaker 1: I've ever seen, like like oil rigs, like look huge

1399
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:48,120
Speaker 1: and rough and blocky and like they might need to

1400
01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 1: maybe they need to look that way to like survive

1401
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:53,040
Speaker 1: in the ocean. I don't know, I'm not an expert,

1402
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:55,559
Speaker 1: but no, like when you were talking about those modular things,

1403
01:14:56,040 --> 01:14:58,759
Speaker 1: you think of this futuristic idea of like whoop whoop,

1404
01:14:58,800 --> 01:15:00,560
Speaker 1: they just it's like, no, they probably have to like

1405
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:04,519
Speaker 1: toe it. It probably takes like like weeks to move

1406
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:09,920
Speaker 1: and it's probably like really rough season, really inconvenient. Uh yeah.

1407
01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:12,240
Speaker 1: And it's the same with this. It's like salt water

1408
01:15:12,479 --> 01:15:15,400
Speaker 1: and air and it's just gonna rust and look gross.

1409
01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:18,439
Speaker 1: Like you don't want it to be like white because

1410
01:15:18,479 --> 01:15:21,280
Speaker 1: that will just become gross, right, Like it will get

1411
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:24,800
Speaker 1: really weird and stained. Yeah, but it just seems like

1412
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:29,280
Speaker 1: a nightmare. Here's what they write about. Um, this is

1413
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:32,400
Speaker 1: maybe the most unintentionally horrifying thing they've written about these

1414
01:15:32,439 --> 01:15:34,880
Speaker 1: houses they're trying to sell. We think the home of

1415
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:37,560
Speaker 1: the future will be elegant, simple and clean. To achieve this,

1416
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:39,920
Speaker 1: we decided to hide the lightbulbs lights, which is in

1417
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:42,080
Speaker 1: power outlets, by building them into the design of the

1418
01:15:42,160 --> 01:15:44,360
Speaker 1: house that they are invisible yet always right where you

1419
01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:49,559
Speaker 1: need them. Oh boy, yeah, that seems like a good idea,

1420
01:15:50,880 --> 01:15:57,000
Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's everything hard to adjust

1421
01:15:57,120 --> 01:15:59,880
Speaker 1: and change on the fly, which again I think bow

1422
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:02,600
Speaker 1: you need to be able to like repair them and

1423
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:06,280
Speaker 1: ship in media rez otherwise you might die. I don't know,

1424
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:09,040
Speaker 1: not about expert here. Just tell them what other people

1425
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:11,439
Speaker 1: have told me. The house is like you you need

1426
01:16:11,479 --> 01:16:13,800
Speaker 1: to if you need to do the rewire stuff. It

1427
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:17,519
Speaker 1: shouldn't be tough. It shouldn't be built in Yeah, it shouldn't. Yeah,

1428
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:21,720
Speaker 1: it's the hubrist of the design, which is like speak to.

1429
01:16:22,800 --> 01:16:25,479
Speaker 1: One of the features they advertise for the seapod is

1430
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:30,360
Speaker 1: a lightning prevention system. Um. Yeah, in that in that

1431
01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:33,280
Speaker 1: exciting didn't even think about lightning, And now that now

1432
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:36,400
Speaker 1: that's all I can think about. Yeah, they talk about

1433
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:39,160
Speaker 1: lightning rods because like those just direct lightnings flow. What

1434
01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:42,479
Speaker 1: if you could just stop lightning? And I don't entirely

1435
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 1: know their plans there, but do they not explain it?

1436
01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:49,479
Speaker 1: Because I think there's a bunch of different reading you

1437
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:51,920
Speaker 1: could do. But it all comes back to like my question,

1438
01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:54,679
Speaker 1: which is, well, if you're doing something to the environment

1439
01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:57,559
Speaker 1: around you that makes it unable for lightning to form

1440
01:16:57,640 --> 01:17:00,200
Speaker 1: in a time when it's trying to form lightning, what

1441
01:17:00,320 --> 01:17:03,280
Speaker 1: else does that affect. It's like cloud seating where it's

1442
01:17:03,320 --> 01:17:07,040
Speaker 1: like okay, but you know that'll that'll do other stuff too, right,

1443
01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:09,680
Speaker 1: like like if you if you start making it rain

1444
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:12,800
Speaker 1: places it's not supposed to rain, like other stuff will

1445
01:17:12,840 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 1: happen right now exactly, it's okay, you want to live

1446
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:18,160
Speaker 1: near this volcano, don't worry. We figured out a way

1447
01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:21,360
Speaker 1: to make it not erupt. And it's like I don't

1448
01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:24,360
Speaker 1: believe you. I'm gonna need to have a lot of

1449
01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:29,400
Speaker 1: information before, like the garantt we guaranteed to stop lightning.

1450
01:17:29,560 --> 01:17:36,080
Speaker 1: It's like m M, I just will need more information. Yeah,

1451
01:17:36,120 --> 01:17:40,040
Speaker 1: I would need a couple of different things, I think. So, Yeah,

1452
01:17:40,120 --> 01:17:42,840
Speaker 1: if you've been following along so far, this doesn't seem

1453
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:46,960
Speaker 1: dissimilar to a number of grifft saciety projects we covered earlier.

1454
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:49,840
Speaker 1: The seapods could easily be yet another attempt to get

1455
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:52,920
Speaker 1: rich in pre orders or whatever and then run away.

1456
01:17:53,280 --> 01:17:55,439
Speaker 1: But as it turns out, the Ocean Builders team we're

1457
01:17:55,439 --> 01:17:58,360
Speaker 1: willing to put yet more skin in the game. COVID

1458
01:17:58,439 --> 01:18:01,519
Speaker 1: hit and it absolutely pants the entire cruise ship industry.

1459
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:04,000
Speaker 1: And suddenly there was a way cheaper way to like

1460
01:18:04,280 --> 01:18:09,639
Speaker 1: build a ce platform than they're making seapods. You could

1461
01:18:09,680 --> 01:18:12,360
Speaker 1: just buy a cruise ship, a brock Bottom price cruise ship,

1462
01:18:12,479 --> 01:18:16,200
Speaker 1: Dave um. So the three pulled their money and put

1463
01:18:16,280 --> 01:18:19,080
Speaker 1: together nine and a half million dollars, which they definitely

1464
01:18:19,120 --> 01:18:21,040
Speaker 1: should never have had in the first place. So this

1465
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:25,320
Speaker 1: is fundamentally a happy story. They really shouldn't have any money.

1466
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:28,599
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, they're about to buy a cruise ship.

1467
01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:31,439
Speaker 1: They shared you buy a cruise ship day. They're just

1468
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:34,320
Speaker 1: gonna sail that around and then they're gonna like, well,

1469
01:18:34,360 --> 01:18:37,240
Speaker 1: they had realize fuel is expensive. We're going to Oh,

1470
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:39,400
Speaker 1: this is a full story. You don't have to wonder

1471
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:42,920
Speaker 1: how it'll end. Sorry, I'm just imagining like someone waking

1472
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:45,880
Speaker 1: up and going outside and just seeing a cruise ship

1473
01:18:46,160 --> 01:18:51,200
Speaker 1: just like beached near their house, three dead Libertarians on

1474
01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:55,760
Speaker 1: the beach in front of it. Exactly. Oh God. So

1475
01:18:56,160 --> 01:18:59,960
Speaker 1: they buy a cruise ship, the Pacific Dawn, forty five

1476
01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:03,880
Speaker 1: meters long, which is just four thousand meters short of

1477
01:19:04,040 --> 01:19:07,599
Speaker 1: the Freedomship. So they're on their way. At least it's real.

1478
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:13,040
Speaker 1: So they they pivot in their dreams of c setting. Um,

1479
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:15,640
Speaker 1: they commissioned plans for a new ce city, and the

1480
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:17,920
Speaker 1: Dawn is going to be, in their minds, the centerpiece

1481
01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:20,519
Speaker 1: of a network of sea pods. So they'll park the

1482
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:23,280
Speaker 1: Dawn somewhere and then start selling sea pods which will

1483
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:26,160
Speaker 1: like form out around it, you know. Um, and they'll

1484
01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:29,960
Speaker 1: build a little sea town that way. Um. They also

1485
01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:32,639
Speaker 1: decide that like, well, we need a lot more startup capital,

1486
01:19:32,800 --> 01:19:34,479
Speaker 1: although I don't know that they did, because ten million

1487
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:36,560
Speaker 1: dollars seems like you could build some sea pods with it.

1488
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:38,840
Speaker 1: I'm sure the guys who go to that, like burn

1489
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:41,600
Speaker 1: on the Water managed to build things like that for

1490
01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:44,519
Speaker 1: less than ten million dollars. But instead of using it

1491
01:19:44,600 --> 01:19:46,400
Speaker 1: for R and D, they buy this boat and the

1492
01:19:46,479 --> 01:19:50,000
Speaker 1: plan is to sell the cabins on it for dollars

1493
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:52,599
Speaker 1: a piece and use that money to fund the development

1494
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:55,679
Speaker 1: and sale of sea pods, which will gradually turn into

1495
01:19:55,720 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 1: a society. I imagine the response with people saying no,

1496
01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:04,240
Speaker 1: saying I can just take a cruise like a cruise,

1497
01:20:04,479 --> 01:20:07,960
Speaker 1: but you're on the cruise ship and it never moved.

1498
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:14,720
Speaker 1: And bitcoins, that's the other thing, Like there's no like

1499
01:20:14,960 --> 01:20:17,320
Speaker 1: they're not doing like a little Broadway shows or like

1500
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:22,760
Speaker 1: you know, no fancy dinners. It's just and we'll talk

1501
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:25,720
Speaker 1: about that in a second. So their plan is that

1502
01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:28,880
Speaker 1: like gradually, over time they'll be able to fund the

1503
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:31,320
Speaker 1: creation in the sale of more sea pods, which will

1504
01:20:31,400 --> 01:20:34,920
Speaker 1: like surround the Pacific dawn, and there will be platforms

1505
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:39,599
Speaker 1: for growing food and manufacturing things and providing park land. Um,

1506
01:20:39,640 --> 01:20:40,840
Speaker 1: although I guess you would have to pay for the

1507
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:43,200
Speaker 1: park land because there's no government that's paying for things.

1508
01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:45,760
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's never explained. They name their

1509
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:51,400
Speaker 1: cruise ship the Satoshi because the guy, the anonymous founder

1510
01:20:51,479 --> 01:20:57,400
Speaker 1: of Bitcoin's pseudonym was Satoshi. Um. And yeah, the plan

1511
01:20:57,600 --> 01:21:00,200
Speaker 1: for the c city is for it to look from

1512
01:21:00,240 --> 01:21:07,920
Speaker 1: the air like the B and Bitcoin. Oh so gross. Yeah,

1513
01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:10,439
Speaker 1: I know, and it's also like, well, okay, if you

1514
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:13,679
Speaker 1: don't have if you're a libertarian society who's making everybody

1515
01:21:13,760 --> 01:21:17,360
Speaker 1: form the shape of a bitcoin logos, whose whose job

1516
01:21:17,479 --> 01:21:19,720
Speaker 1: is that, how do you tell that behavior? How do

1517
01:21:19,800 --> 01:21:23,280
Speaker 1: you make that? Yeah? So I don't know. Maybe they

1518
01:21:23,360 --> 01:21:28,040
Speaker 1: had a plan on October. Oh you're not into the

1519
01:21:28,080 --> 01:21:32,040
Speaker 1: big bitcoin c city based around a cruise ship that

1520
01:21:32,200 --> 01:21:37,160
Speaker 1: you live in forever. No, man, it's such an incredible

1521
01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:40,599
Speaker 1: down grade. Like again, all these stories are like these

1522
01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:43,320
Speaker 1: negotiations where they're like I want to start my own country,

1523
01:21:43,640 --> 01:21:45,280
Speaker 1: and then it ends with like okay, but I get

1524
01:21:45,320 --> 01:21:49,720
Speaker 1: to keep the truck. It's and then they get like

1525
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:54,200
Speaker 1: a truck and that's it. So on October, Chad el

1526
01:21:54,240 --> 01:21:57,560
Speaker 1: Wartowski announced to read It that the fondest dreams of

1527
01:21:57,680 --> 01:22:00,920
Speaker 1: generations of libertarians were about to be real. List they

1528
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:05,479
Speaker 1: were going to build finally a sea born libertarian nation.

1529
01:22:06,080 --> 01:22:08,040
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna quote from a Guardian summary of the

1530
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:10,920
Speaker 1: discussion that followed, quote, So I am buying a cruise

1531
01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:13,320
Speaker 1: ship and naming it M. S. Satoshi. A m A

1532
01:22:13,640 --> 01:22:17,040
Speaker 1: asked me anything. The responses were quick, need an apprentice

1533
01:22:17,080 --> 01:22:19,479
Speaker 1: aviation mechanic. I know how to use a yo yo

1534
01:22:19,640 --> 01:22:23,200
Speaker 1: any room for me, and included the inevitable skeptics, anyone

1535
01:22:23,280 --> 01:22:25,880
Speaker 1: remember the good old days of the fire festival. But

1536
01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:28,800
Speaker 1: Plenty took the proposition seriously and wanted to go over

1537
01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:34,080
Speaker 1: the small print. Where is the power coming from? Gas? Internet, food, water, toiletries?

1538
01:22:34,240 --> 01:22:37,920
Speaker 1: What taxes will she be subject to? L Wartowski answered

1539
01:22:37,920 --> 01:22:40,680
Speaker 1: every question with grave attention to detail. There would be

1540
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:43,880
Speaker 1: generators at first, followed quickly by solar power. This would

1541
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:47,080
Speaker 1: be an eco friendly crypto ship. High speed wireless internet

1542
01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:49,640
Speaker 1: would come from land. Utilities would be included in the

1543
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:51,439
Speaker 1: fees at first, but would be meted out when the

1544
01:22:51,479 --> 01:22:53,800
Speaker 1: cabins were upgraded. You don't want to have to pay

1545
01:22:53,880 --> 01:22:56,280
Speaker 1: for someone else's mining rig in their cabin, he wrote,

1546
01:22:56,560 --> 01:23:00,120
Speaker 1: referring to the resource intensive computational process that introduced his

1547
01:23:00,160 --> 01:23:03,400
Speaker 1: new crypto coins into the system. But as the Reddit

1548
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:06,920
Speaker 1: q and A continued, l Wertowski's meticulous responses revealed some

1549
01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:09,880
Speaker 1: of the more naughty practicalities of life on board. It

1550
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:12,200
Speaker 1: turned out that the only cooking facilities would be in

1551
01:23:12,280 --> 01:23:15,080
Speaker 1: the restaurant. For safety reasons, no one was allowed to

1552
01:23:15,120 --> 01:23:17,680
Speaker 1: have a microwave in their rooms, though some cabins had

1553
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:22,040
Speaker 1: many fridges, noted al Wartowski, determinatively sidestepping the point. He

1554
01:23:22,120 --> 01:23:25,479
Speaker 1: offered residents discount at the restaurant and mentioned that some

1555
01:23:25,640 --> 01:23:28,160
Speaker 1: interested cruisers had already talked about renting part of the

1556
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:31,320
Speaker 1: restaurant kitchen so they could make their own food. Would

1557
01:23:31,479 --> 01:23:34,000
Speaker 1: entrepreneurs to come up with solutions and try them out,

1558
01:23:34,080 --> 01:23:36,439
Speaker 1: he wrote, in a valiant attempt to convert a fairly

1559
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:40,040
Speaker 1: fundamental stumbling block into wild startup energy. This is your

1560
01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:45,640
Speaker 1: place to try new things right there. He You have

1561
01:23:45,840 --> 01:23:49,880
Speaker 1: to pay for the food at the restaurant. Yes, is

1562
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:56,200
Speaker 1: the only kitchen. That is the only kitchen that libertarian

1563
01:23:56,320 --> 01:23:59,759
Speaker 1: mecca that has a cafeteria. This will be the freest

1564
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:04,160
Speaker 1: ace on earth. But no microwaves. Ye, no microwaves. And

1565
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:07,519
Speaker 1: you can't make your own food in anyway? Well, no,

1566
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:11,639
Speaker 1: you could pay to use the communal to use the kitchen.

1567
01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:17,080
Speaker 1: Someone entrepreneurs could figure out how to lease it. Yeah,

1568
01:24:17,320 --> 01:24:21,600
Speaker 1: it's it's very funny. We haven't. I feel like I

1569
01:24:21,640 --> 01:24:24,200
Speaker 1: should have threw out this been talking or speculating about

1570
01:24:24,200 --> 01:24:27,160
Speaker 1: the amount of cocaine is involved in this entire It's

1571
01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:35,880
Speaker 1: not none, David's not not none or at least it's

1572
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:40,240
Speaker 1: a real three in the morning. I'm starting a business energy,

1573
01:24:40,439 --> 01:24:44,920
Speaker 1: you know, like it's it's it's that. It's probably cocaine. Yeah,

1574
01:24:45,760 --> 01:24:50,240
Speaker 1: it's painful. What else hurt us again? Tell us more bad?

1575
01:24:50,640 --> 01:24:53,479
Speaker 1: So uh yeah, And it is funny. You can you

1576
01:24:53,560 --> 01:24:55,439
Speaker 1: can't have microwaves in your room, but you can't have

1577
01:24:55,520 --> 01:25:02,400
Speaker 1: a bitcoin mining rig. It's it's perfect, It's perfect. It's

1578
01:25:02,479 --> 01:25:06,479
Speaker 1: just fucking perfect. Um. It is very funny that both

1579
01:25:06,520 --> 01:25:09,519
Speaker 1: the Liberty Ship and the Setosis founders admitted upfront, Oh, yes,

1580
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:11,840
Speaker 1: we will have to radically curb your freedoms in order

1581
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:14,960
Speaker 1: to make a life on a boat together possible. Um.

1582
01:25:15,240 --> 01:25:17,600
Speaker 1: Whatever criticisms you have of them, though, they hired a

1583
01:25:17,640 --> 01:25:19,720
Speaker 1: captain and a skeleton crew for the ship, and some

1584
01:25:19,880 --> 01:25:22,360
Speaker 1: of them sailed their asses to Panama with it. This

1585
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:25,160
Speaker 1: is again, more than any of their predecessors except the

1586
01:25:25,200 --> 01:25:28,639
Speaker 1: Sea Land Guy ever managed. They started auctioning the seven

1587
01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:31,679
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy seven open cabins off in late November.

1588
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:35,479
Speaker 1: They held a number of informational calls for potential customers

1589
01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:38,560
Speaker 1: where they talked about ship like their COVID safety policies

1590
01:25:38,600 --> 01:25:40,640
Speaker 1: on board, and their plans to accept a bunch of

1591
01:25:40,680 --> 01:25:44,559
Speaker 1: stupid crypto coins with names like Eureka coin and doge coin.

1592
01:25:45,160 --> 01:25:47,599
Speaker 1: They also informed people that pets larger than a small

1593
01:25:47,680 --> 01:25:51,120
Speaker 1: dog or pets that barked, would not be allowed on board. Oh,

1594
01:25:51,400 --> 01:25:57,760
Speaker 1: it's so it's crawling with cats, thousands of that's what

1595
01:25:58,000 --> 01:26:00,280
Speaker 1: That's what it would be, is give it cats eating

1596
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:03,439
Speaker 1: the corpses of libertarians who died when their mining rig

1597
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:07,880
Speaker 1: overheated them as they stroked out of the island in Japan.

1598
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:10,799
Speaker 1: It will be like this boat perpetually sailing the ocean.

1599
01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:13,559
Speaker 1: Just covered it, and we'd just say that dogs would

1600
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:16,719
Speaker 1: not want to attend that event. Yeah, thank you. Cats

1601
01:26:16,720 --> 01:26:19,280
Speaker 1: would love it. So, how many rooms do you think sold, Dave,

1602
01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:21,760
Speaker 1: I'm gonna guess it's like when he's like trying to

1603
01:26:21,800 --> 01:26:25,680
Speaker 1: get those signatures and all that. I'm guessing, all right,

1604
01:26:25,760 --> 01:26:31,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say seven rooms. Wait, that's how many sold. No,

1605
01:26:31,479 --> 01:26:36,120
Speaker 1: that's how many are were available into I'm guessing three seven,

1606
01:26:36,560 --> 01:26:38,320
Speaker 1: So twice as good as you thought, more than twice

1607
01:26:38,320 --> 01:26:41,559
Speaker 1: as good as you thought. Dave really underestimated them. Um,

1608
01:26:42,520 --> 01:26:45,479
Speaker 1: So the fact that only seven rooms sold was a problem.

1609
01:26:45,680 --> 01:26:47,599
Speaker 1: Another problem was that none of the men who had

1610
01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:50,120
Speaker 1: thrown down near ten million dollars for this boat and

1611
01:26:50,200 --> 01:26:52,559
Speaker 1: decided to make life on the sea their chief goal.

1612
01:26:53,040 --> 01:26:55,640
Speaker 1: Actually knew about living on a boat or say, like

1613
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:59,599
Speaker 1: a boat, why would you need to know that, Dave,

1614
01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:01,720
Speaker 1: You're trying to figure out a whole new way of life.

1615
01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:03,479
Speaker 1: You don't have to know how to work a sale

1616
01:27:03,720 --> 01:27:07,840
Speaker 1: or maintain an engine. Likely this this remind this is

1617
01:27:07,960 --> 01:27:11,120
Speaker 1: like this is like a slow down g T a

1618
01:27:11,320 --> 01:27:14,160
Speaker 1: rampage where you're just like jumping from one thing to

1619
01:27:14,320 --> 01:27:17,800
Speaker 1: another desperately trying to hijack stuff. Like it feels like

1620
01:27:17,880 --> 01:27:21,120
Speaker 1: the boat has been hijacked in slow motion by someone

1621
01:27:21,160 --> 01:27:23,240
Speaker 1: who doesn't know how to use a boat. And now

1622
01:27:23,320 --> 01:27:25,559
Speaker 1: they're just sailing off and they're wondering what the hell

1623
01:27:25,640 --> 01:27:28,160
Speaker 1: all the buttons do and they're not sure what they're

1624
01:27:28,160 --> 01:27:30,640
Speaker 1: gonna do. They do they do have to hire an

1625
01:27:30,680 --> 01:27:34,559
Speaker 1: actual professional captain to say that's the good news. Can

1626
01:27:34,600 --> 01:27:39,519
Speaker 1: you imagine being that captain's he's giving some quotes and

1627
01:27:39,640 --> 01:27:42,519
Speaker 1: it sounded like a nightmare, but in your tongue. The

1628
01:27:42,600 --> 01:27:45,320
Speaker 1: whole way of this was very adamant about like they

1629
01:27:45,400 --> 01:27:48,240
Speaker 1: did not know what they were doing. Where they're like,

1630
01:27:48,320 --> 01:27:51,320
Speaker 1: we can pay you, and I'd be like cash, I

1631
01:27:51,320 --> 01:27:54,960
Speaker 1: don't want I don't want to goddamn like pictures of

1632
01:27:55,160 --> 01:28:00,000
Speaker 1: dogs on coins. You give me cash, fucking cash money baby.

1633
01:28:01,040 --> 01:28:04,240
Speaker 1: Um So, there's a lot of talk this whole episode

1634
01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:07,760
Speaker 1: about like international waters, the freedom of international waters. Here's

1635
01:28:07,800 --> 01:28:12,360
Speaker 1: the thing, International law heavily regulates a lot of the ocean.

1636
01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:16,280
Speaker 1: Um sailing requires certain certificates, like you have to have

1637
01:28:16,479 --> 01:28:18,559
Speaker 1: a bunch of things that prove your boat is safe.

1638
01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:21,040
Speaker 1: And the guys didn't realize they needed to have that.

1639
01:28:21,600 --> 01:28:23,479
Speaker 1: Um so they had to like put it in drydock

1640
01:28:23,560 --> 01:28:27,120
Speaker 1: and pay a bunch more money and set the project back. Yeah,

1641
01:28:27,479 --> 01:28:29,720
Speaker 1: just google it, you just they could have googled it.

1642
01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:32,120
Speaker 1: They could have googled that. It also turns out that

1643
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:34,080
Speaker 1: you have to have insurance for boats that are going

1644
01:28:34,160 --> 01:28:38,879
Speaker 1: to sail into and exist within another nation, and insurance

1645
01:28:38,960 --> 01:28:41,280
Speaker 1: companies were like, well, we're not going to ensure a

1646
01:28:41,320 --> 01:28:43,960
Speaker 1: boat run by three guys who don't know anything about

1647
01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:45,720
Speaker 1: boats and want to park it off the coast of

1648
01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:48,680
Speaker 1: Panama and turn it into a floating bitcoin city. Like

1649
01:28:49,160 --> 01:28:51,120
Speaker 1: we don't, we don't. We're like, we're not even going

1650
01:28:51,200 --> 01:28:53,320
Speaker 1: to quote you a premium on that that's just not

1651
01:28:53,439 --> 01:28:55,360
Speaker 1: a business we want to be. I never thought i'd say,

1652
01:28:55,479 --> 01:28:59,080
Speaker 1: comrade insurance guy. Yeah, well, I mean it's just it's

1653
01:28:59,120 --> 01:29:01,960
Speaker 1: pretty basic. So the whole venture fell apart, and the

1654
01:29:02,000 --> 01:29:04,320
Speaker 1: ship was eventually sold for scrap at a loss of

1655
01:29:04,640 --> 01:29:08,160
Speaker 1: a lot of money. The Guardian chronicles the very funny

1656
01:29:08,240 --> 01:29:11,240
Speaker 1: reactions these guys had when they realized they'd never bothered

1657
01:29:11,320 --> 01:29:14,799
Speaker 1: to learn ship about what life on the ocean might entail. Quote.

1658
01:29:14,960 --> 01:29:18,599
Speaker 1: After trying multiple insurers and brokers, Romance began to realize

1659
01:29:18,600 --> 01:29:20,479
Speaker 1: that the cruise ship industry was, as he put it,

1660
01:29:20,720 --> 01:29:24,639
Speaker 1: plagued by over regulation, along with airlines and nuclear power.

1661
01:29:24,720 --> 01:29:27,719
Speaker 1: According to Harris, it's in the top three. The ocean

1662
01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:31,120
Speaker 1: builder's great freedom's project, whose intrinsic purpose was to offer

1663
01:29:31,200 --> 01:29:34,280
Speaker 1: an escape from oppressive rules and bureaucracy, was being hobbled

1664
01:29:34,320 --> 01:29:37,759
Speaker 1: by oppressive rules and bureaucracy. As l Wartowski would reflect

1665
01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:39,960
Speaker 1: a few months later on Reddit, a cruise ship is

1666
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:42,160
Speaker 1: not very good for people who want to be free.

1667
01:29:44,760 --> 01:29:48,360
Speaker 1: So perfect punchline to all this to be like this

1668
01:29:48,520 --> 01:29:50,599
Speaker 1: whole time, they're like, we're taking to the sea where

1669
01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:54,600
Speaker 1: there's no laws, not bothering to google or check to

1670
01:29:54,720 --> 01:29:57,040
Speaker 1: see if that's true. Are their laws in the sea.

1671
01:29:58,000 --> 01:30:01,120
Speaker 1: That's basically what this all is. As they've and fantasizing

1672
01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:05,120
Speaker 1: about going to this place that was magical in their

1673
01:30:05,200 --> 01:30:09,360
Speaker 1: mind and now they're learning, like finally what the place

1674
01:30:09,439 --> 01:30:12,400
Speaker 1: actually is. Yeah, like that's what it seems like. It's

1675
01:30:12,439 --> 01:30:15,639
Speaker 1: like it's like it's like wanting to go to Mars

1676
01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:18,240
Speaker 1: for all the fresh air in trees, you know, like

1677
01:30:18,680 --> 01:30:23,719
Speaker 1: they never bothered to check incredible. It's it's it's very funny.

1678
01:30:23,800 --> 01:30:25,479
Speaker 1: And of course they have to sell the cruise ship

1679
01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:29,400
Speaker 1: for scrap metal. They it's it's just a giant disaster.

1680
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:32,800
Speaker 1: It's all, none of it, none of it works out. Um.

1681
01:30:33,160 --> 01:30:35,599
Speaker 1: And as time has gone on since the dream Dying,

1682
01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:41,519
Speaker 1: Chad l Wartowski has gone on to post more concerning things. Uh.

1683
01:30:42,160 --> 01:30:44,000
Speaker 1: The post he made when they had to sell the

1684
01:30:44,040 --> 01:30:46,400
Speaker 1: boat was quote, we have lost this round the new

1685
01:30:46,520 --> 01:30:49,439
Speaker 1: normal great reset gains another victim, which is like Q

1686
01:30:49,640 --> 01:30:53,400
Speaker 1: and on anti vac ship. So I am worried about Chad. Um.

1687
01:30:53,760 --> 01:30:58,840
Speaker 1: I like you. I like you, buddy, I you got potential. Yeah,

1688
01:30:59,040 --> 01:31:02,559
Speaker 1: it's in terms of like I understand your disclaimer where

1689
01:31:02,600 --> 01:31:06,400
Speaker 1: you're like, these aren't bastards the bastard is like huberous

1690
01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:11,200
Speaker 1: and maybe our education system. Yeah, like the bastard is more.

1691
01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:17,800
Speaker 1: This is more people victims of their own yes, of themselves,

1692
01:31:18,040 --> 01:31:21,840
Speaker 1: and like the grifters early on, Yeah they were bastards,

1693
01:31:22,240 --> 01:31:24,479
Speaker 1: but it it is like I feel bad for them,

1694
01:31:24,560 --> 01:31:28,080
Speaker 1: and honestly, I kind of want them to have a win, uh,

1695
01:31:28,280 --> 01:31:31,240
Speaker 1: provided that they are good people, like you said with

1696
01:31:31,400 --> 01:31:36,400
Speaker 1: the vaccine stuff and getting a little shaky. Um. You know,

1697
01:31:36,479 --> 01:31:39,559
Speaker 1: they could be terrible people otherwise. But it's like, oh man,

1698
01:31:40,040 --> 01:31:44,599
Speaker 1: oh buddy, Yeah, and it wants I want I want

1699
01:31:44,760 --> 01:31:49,040
Speaker 1: to do something for you. Yeah, I I want to.

1700
01:31:50,000 --> 01:31:52,479
Speaker 1: I want something. I want there to be I want

1701
01:31:52,479 --> 01:31:54,840
Speaker 1: I I think this idea is cool. Like I think

1702
01:31:54,920 --> 01:31:57,640
Speaker 1: that I might go to that event in fucking Sacramento. Um,

1703
01:31:57,680 --> 01:32:00,280
Speaker 1: that sounds rad as hell. I love the idea of

1704
01:32:00,400 --> 01:32:04,200
Speaker 1: like people walking away from I mean speaking of of

1705
01:32:04,400 --> 01:32:07,720
Speaker 1: of the term walk away. Read Cory Doctors wonderful sci

1706
01:32:07,800 --> 01:32:09,240
Speaker 1: fi book walk Away. But I love the idea of

1707
01:32:09,280 --> 01:32:12,920
Speaker 1: people like, let's let's abandon these horrible governments and figure

1708
01:32:12,960 --> 01:32:15,400
Speaker 1: out over time how to like live in the sea.

1709
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:17,320
Speaker 1: There's a cool idea there, as long as you're not

1710
01:32:17,479 --> 01:32:23,519
Speaker 1: poisoning the ocean or or whatever, like I don't I'm

1711
01:32:23,560 --> 01:32:26,720
Speaker 1: not laughing at the idea of wanting to live in

1712
01:32:26,920 --> 01:32:29,920
Speaker 1: like a designed community and the ocean of like hard

1713
01:32:30,040 --> 01:32:34,240
Speaker 1: scrabble frontiers people. That's pretty rad, but that's not These

1714
01:32:34,240 --> 01:32:37,840
Speaker 1: are not hard scrabble frontier people except for maybe Chad. Yes,

1715
01:32:38,040 --> 01:32:40,240
Speaker 1: their heart is in the right place or when they're

1716
01:32:40,280 --> 01:32:43,760
Speaker 1: not grifting, their heart is in the right place. And

1717
01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:46,080
Speaker 1: that's the thing is like you could point that lens

1718
01:32:46,120 --> 01:32:48,200
Speaker 1: at me and be like, look at you, you fucking coward.

1719
01:32:48,479 --> 01:32:51,160
Speaker 1: You're not trying anything. These people are at least trying.

1720
01:32:51,680 --> 01:32:55,479
Speaker 1: They but they're trying to actually accomplice this thing instead

1721
01:32:55,520 --> 01:32:58,680
Speaker 1: of just bitching about the government, like it's like you

1722
01:32:58,800 --> 01:33:01,400
Speaker 1: got to give them something that it's just you gotta

1723
01:33:01,479 --> 01:33:03,920
Speaker 1: again going back to that, yeah, going back to the

1724
01:33:04,000 --> 01:33:07,240
Speaker 1: core idea of libertarianism where it's like I've never seen

1725
01:33:07,400 --> 01:33:12,120
Speaker 1: someone's explain how it would help society. It always feels

1726
01:33:12,200 --> 01:33:16,479
Speaker 1: like it's just I I I I want this freedom,

1727
01:33:16,520 --> 01:33:19,080
Speaker 1: I don't want to pay taxes, and it's it's the

1728
01:33:19,200 --> 01:33:22,960
Speaker 1: idea of how to build an actual practical society. I've

1729
01:33:23,040 --> 01:33:26,240
Speaker 1: just maybe I'm ignorant, maybe that's been explained, but I've

1730
01:33:26,320 --> 01:33:28,880
Speaker 1: just never seen it. Well. Part of it is, you know, Dave,

1731
01:33:29,040 --> 01:33:31,320
Speaker 1: And this is the thing where because Chad's not really

1732
01:33:31,880 --> 01:33:35,160
Speaker 1: a pioneer, the original like pioneers for all of the

1733
01:33:35,240 --> 01:33:38,840
Speaker 1: genocide and stuff, we're like number one people who could fail.

1734
01:33:39,320 --> 01:33:41,040
Speaker 1: Like it was life or death for a lot of them,

1735
01:33:41,120 --> 01:33:42,920
Speaker 1: like we are either going to make life out here

1736
01:33:43,040 --> 01:33:46,000
Speaker 1: farming or like we will starve to death. Like that

1737
01:33:46,160 --> 01:33:48,960
Speaker 1: was for some of them a very real thing. We

1738
01:33:49,040 --> 01:33:52,320
Speaker 1: only hear of the successes. Yeah, the rest are like

1739
01:33:52,520 --> 01:33:55,200
Speaker 1: just skeletons. And they they were also all people who

1740
01:33:55,280 --> 01:33:57,080
Speaker 1: like knew how to do ship Like you watch the

1741
01:33:57,160 --> 01:34:00,000
Speaker 1: fucking the Avich, you know that that's a good example

1742
01:34:00,160 --> 01:34:03,360
Speaker 1: of like showing how many different skills a person would

1743
01:34:03,360 --> 01:34:05,080
Speaker 1: have had to have to like make a life even

1744
01:34:05,200 --> 01:34:08,920
Speaker 1: vaguely feasible in those kind of conditions. So, like the constant,

1745
01:34:09,000 --> 01:34:11,000
Speaker 1: the costs are high, and it was people who were like,

1746
01:34:11,080 --> 01:34:14,639
Speaker 1: we're already very self reliant. These people number one, they're

1747
01:34:14,680 --> 01:34:16,680
Speaker 1: all millionaires. No, I don't think any of them are

1748
01:34:16,720 --> 01:34:19,080
Speaker 1: gambling more than they can afford to lose, So like

1749
01:34:19,320 --> 01:34:22,599
Speaker 1: they're they don't they can easily go do something else,

1750
01:34:22,680 --> 01:34:24,760
Speaker 1: this is not the stakes are not actually that high

1751
01:34:24,840 --> 01:34:27,960
Speaker 1: for them. And number two, they don't have much in

1752
01:34:28,000 --> 01:34:30,240
Speaker 1: the way of skills. It doesn't seem like like they

1753
01:34:30,240 --> 01:34:32,720
Speaker 1: don't know how to do any of the things. It

1754
01:34:32,720 --> 01:34:35,000
Speaker 1: would be like somebody setting out to start a farm

1755
01:34:35,200 --> 01:34:39,120
Speaker 1: in an undiscovered to them continent and like having never

1756
01:34:39,240 --> 01:34:42,080
Speaker 1: touched dirt or built a house and just being like,

1757
01:34:42,520 --> 01:34:44,840
Speaker 1: we'll I'll pay people along the way to do that part. Right,

1758
01:34:44,920 --> 01:34:47,040
Speaker 1: it's the top down thinking. It's the fact that they

1759
01:34:47,080 --> 01:34:49,800
Speaker 1: live in this society that they live in where they're

1760
01:34:49,800 --> 01:34:52,800
Speaker 1: afforded a lot of privilege or comfort, and they say, oh,

1761
01:34:52,880 --> 01:34:54,439
Speaker 1: I want to make it like a city in the

1762
01:34:54,640 --> 01:34:57,760
Speaker 1: in the sea. Uh, And they don't think about where

1763
01:34:57,800 --> 01:35:01,400
Speaker 1: do you start because they just that's not how they

1764
01:35:01,840 --> 01:35:05,160
Speaker 1: are thinking about it. It's it's absolutely top down thinking.

1765
01:35:05,760 --> 01:35:10,240
Speaker 1: And it's like very cringe to listen to. And I

1766
01:35:10,439 --> 01:35:15,000
Speaker 1: still feel bad because they are their own worst enemies

1767
01:35:15,120 --> 01:35:18,240
Speaker 1: with this stuff. Again, their heart seems to be in

1768
01:35:18,280 --> 01:35:21,439
Speaker 1: the right place. If if it's the non grifters, it's

1769
01:35:21,520 --> 01:35:25,839
Speaker 1: just their methods. The swings they take are so silly

1770
01:35:26,880 --> 01:35:30,320
Speaker 1: and like again the ideas there there are these ideas

1771
01:35:30,360 --> 01:35:33,559
Speaker 1: that are like Oh, that's a neat thing. But they're not. Yeah,

1772
01:35:34,280 --> 01:35:36,760
Speaker 1: they're trying to start with those ideas and not grow

1773
01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:40,120
Speaker 1: to them. Yep. I think that's as good an epitaph

1774
01:35:40,200 --> 01:35:42,559
Speaker 1: for this as possible. You got any You got any

1775
01:35:42,600 --> 01:35:46,200
Speaker 1: plug doubles? Yeah, Dave plug your plugibles. Fuck it at

1776
01:35:46,360 --> 01:35:50,759
Speaker 1: Movie Hooligan on the Twitter. I have a podcast network

1777
01:35:50,840 --> 01:35:54,880
Speaker 1: with Tom Ryman that's called game Fully Unemployed. Uh. We

1778
01:35:55,200 --> 01:35:59,280
Speaker 1: we do a lot of podcasts about movies, mainly movie

1779
01:35:59,320 --> 01:36:01,760
Speaker 1: reviews and so on and so forth. We have some

1780
01:36:01,920 --> 01:36:05,639
Speaker 1: podcasts under our Patreon that's patreon dot com slash Gamefully Unemployed,

1781
01:36:05,960 --> 01:36:09,040
Speaker 1: one called Fox Molders, a Maniac one called Tom and

1782
01:36:09,120 --> 01:36:12,040
Speaker 1: Jeff Watch Batman. They they they are exactly what they

1783
01:36:12,120 --> 01:36:15,160
Speaker 1: sound like. Check all that out if you want to,

1784
01:36:16,200 --> 01:36:18,760
Speaker 1: you know, if you don't, you don't have to. I

1785
01:36:18,800 --> 01:36:21,200
Speaker 1: don't know if you know that. And there's also the

1786
01:36:21,280 --> 01:36:24,280
Speaker 1: new podcast Tom and Jeff Watch Bateman, which is just

1787
01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:26,640
Speaker 1: a chronicle of the fact that Tom and Jeff have

1788
01:36:26,720 --> 01:36:31,320
Speaker 1: been stalking Jason Bateman for years. Yeah. Yeah, but we're collecting.

1789
01:36:31,439 --> 01:36:33,920
Speaker 1: We're we're waiting for that saga to end before we

1790
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:36,360
Speaker 1: do the podcast. You know, we want to see that

1791
01:36:36,400 --> 01:36:40,400
Speaker 1: how that will turn out fire? But yeah, you should

1792
01:36:40,479 --> 01:36:44,880
Speaker 1: do uh just doing sequests, just the show where you

1793
01:36:45,000 --> 01:36:47,840
Speaker 1: just explain episodes of sequence. Yeah, let me tell you

1794
01:36:47,880 --> 01:36:51,040
Speaker 1: know this episode of sequest. Yeah, that's it. That's the

1795
01:36:51,120 --> 01:36:53,840
Speaker 1: title of the podcast. It's fine, Yeah, I think so.

1796
01:36:53,920 --> 01:36:55,919
Speaker 1: It'll just be me talking about how much I appreciate

1797
01:36:56,040 --> 01:37:02,559
Speaker 1: Roy Scheider. Nobody else, it's nobody up, just me. Well, um, look,

1798
01:37:02,680 --> 01:37:05,599
Speaker 1: take a hundred dollars and throw it into the air

1799
01:37:06,120 --> 01:37:08,240
Speaker 1: somewhere in the outdoors. If you want me to make

1800
01:37:08,280 --> 01:37:10,439
Speaker 1: that podcast, and if enough of you do it, I'll

1801
01:37:10,520 --> 01:37:13,439
Speaker 1: release it. That's how money works. That is how money works.

1802
01:37:13,520 --> 01:37:16,080
Speaker 1: Dave Well, that's going to do it for all of

1803
01:37:16,160 --> 01:37:19,040
Speaker 1: us here at behind the Bastards Until next time.