Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast.
Speaker 1: This week we have a two part podcast for you
Speaker 1: with two thousand and six US Open Champion Jeff Ogilvie.
Speaker 1: Besides playing on the PGA Tour, Jeff is also a
Speaker 1: golf course architect in his spare time, partnering with Michael Clayton,
Speaker 1: Mike Kaking and Ashley Mead and their firm OCCM. In
Speaker 1: Part one, Jeff and I discussed life on the PGA Tour,
Speaker 1: match play, winning versus contending young Australian players, the evolution
Speaker 1: of the game and much more. Part two the podcast
Speaker 1: will be released on Tuesday night. If you don't yet,
Speaker 1: please subscribe to the podcast and rate and review us
Speaker 1: in the app Store. Thanks, and without further ado, here's
Speaker 1: Jeff Ogilvie.
Speaker 2: I miss the green, for example, I'm already upset. When
Speaker 2: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 2: And when I find my ball in.
Speaker 1: A Frida Egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida Egg Friday egg,
Speaker 1: right egg, bright egg, bright egg, bright egg, Lie, I'm
Speaker 1: about ready to run off the golf course. It was
Speaker 1: like a typical week looks like when you're not playing golf.
Speaker 2: What's probably different now than it used to be. I mean,
Speaker 2: I was a get home Sunday night. It's gotta be
Speaker 2: a wake up Monday morning and like work out what
Speaker 2: time I was going to go to the golf course
Speaker 2: and practice. That's what a young professional golfer does, I think.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've been a golf tragic my whole life.
Speaker 2: So I h you spend Sunday night on the airplane
Speaker 2: coming home wondering what you did wrong or lacking what
Speaker 2: you did right, and getting about working on that more
Speaker 2: for the week off. A little different now I've married up,
Speaker 2: three kids at home and been at this for twenty
Speaker 2: odd years. It's kind of I don't really kind of
Speaker 2: my hands don't really touch the club glove doesn't get
Speaker 2: on zipped till about Thursday. Now. Probably if I've played
Speaker 2: two or three weeks in a row, three or four
Speaker 2: days off, and I take the kids to school on Monday,
Speaker 2: and I probably Monday I'll usually just sit on the couch.
Speaker 2: I just not very much. Tuesday, Wednesday I might start
Speaker 2: getting around and running in little lens I need to do.
Speaker 2: And then Thursday, like Wednesday night, I'll start getting excited
Speaker 2: and I'll start going to the golf course on Thursday,
Speaker 2: penafew balls and playing any games of golf that are
Speaker 2: around and stuff like that. So it's less of a
Speaker 2: grindy kind of all all in approach to golf now
Speaker 2: more like a I really enjoy the kind of days
Speaker 2: away when I get them.
Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, that's I feel it a little bit.
Speaker 2: On my end.
Speaker 1: Is just like I play a lot less now than
Speaker 1: I play when I was younger, but I enjoy it
Speaker 1: a lot more. When you're out on tour and you're,
Speaker 1: you know, at an event, what do you do with
Speaker 1: you know, the considerable downtime that you guys have.
Speaker 2: It seems to be I I used to like when
Speaker 2: I played in Europe, early days and early stuff. I
Speaker 2: used to love going to see the town, you know,
Speaker 2: whatever was around, Like if I mean, sometimes we got
Speaker 2: to some pretty uninteresting places and there's not much to do.
Speaker 2: But whenever we get somewhere like say Chicago or La
Speaker 2: or New York or some places in Florida, there's always
Speaker 2: somewhere cool to go and do, something to do. And
Speaker 2: I used to do a lot of that, but the
Speaker 2: last of five or six years, it's much more get
Speaker 2: back to the room and find find a show to
Speaker 2: binge watch on Netflix, and just go. That's getting to
Speaker 2: be a pretty popular afternoon sort of for the guys
Speaker 2: out here is find something to binge and just watch
Speaker 2: it because it feels the time and it's enjoyed and
Speaker 2: it gets your head out of your putting stroke or
Speaker 2: your golf swing or tell me about a golf and
Speaker 2: it's just that nice little kind of tune out and
Speaker 2: shut down and just watch TV. So I watch. I'm
Speaker 2: running out of shows to watch because I've done them
Speaker 2: all the last four or five years. But that's the
Speaker 2: new thing.
Speaker 1: I imagine that technology has made it far, far easier
Speaker 1: for the tour pro to keep themselves busy.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's brilliant. Now, I mean good old days. Well,
Speaker 2: my early days was just the early days of remember
Speaker 2: like sticking the cable into the phone and trying to
Speaker 2: find the dial up code, and every now and then
Speaker 2: you'd get a half decent thing and you could look
Speaker 2: at the Internet for about half an hour, but it
Speaker 2: was such a frustrating experience that it really wasn't something
Speaker 2: to fill your afternoon. And the movies on TV were
Speaker 2: expensive and you'd seen them all and it's great now. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean phones and computers and iPads and you can
Speaker 2: there's tons of guys. There's guys travel with xboxes and
Speaker 2: play video games together and like online stuff. And it's
Speaker 2: much easier to waste an afternoon now than it ever
Speaker 2: used to be. Yeah, it's quite funny.
Speaker 1: What's the what's your favorite favorite series that you've you've binged?
Speaker 2: I think my favorite show I think was The Wire.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, this is an incredible show. I mean I
Speaker 2: think the first one I binged with Sopranos, which is
Speaker 2: pretty normal for a lot of people. It's one of
Speaker 2: those go to shows. I remember watching Sopranos when it
Speaker 2: was on a few times, you know, every few Sundays
Speaker 2: you'd accidentally, Oh, the Sopranos is on. And I probably
Speaker 2: watched twenty of the however many of their episodes that
Speaker 2: there are sixty episodes over the period that it was on,
Speaker 2: but never really followed the story. I just kind of
Speaker 2: enjoyed watching it. But when I binge that start to finish,
Speaker 2: I mean it was it's so much better when you
Speaker 2: can go back to back to back and you're really
Speaker 2: the story develops and you really start rooting for Tony
Speaker 2: and it's a really I really really enjoyed that, so
Speaker 2: then I kind of then someone recommended if you like
Speaker 2: the Sopranos, because I thought the soprano everyone said, this
Speaker 2: is like the best show I ever made, which people
Speaker 2: say about a lot of stuff, but someone so if
Speaker 2: you like that, you got to watch The Wires. Incredible
Speaker 2: And I hadn't even heard of it, never even remembered
Speaker 2: it what was on TV. But it I've watched it
Speaker 2: all the way through twice. It's just I think it's
Speaker 2: just it's so real. I've never lived in Baltimore downtown,
Speaker 2: but it seems real. It's not all fluff for TV.
Speaker 2: It's like this is you know, this is what it is,
Speaker 2: and it's a brilliant show, fantastic.
Speaker 1: I was in college when The Wire was was coming out,
Speaker 1: and I mean, I just my friends and I I
Speaker 1: think I've watched each season probably about six to ten times.
Speaker 1: It's it's just the best show I think they did.
Speaker 1: The What's so fascinating is how they encapsulated every single
Speaker 1: level of government and city so well, you know, from
Speaker 1: the mayor all the way down to the drug addict.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it was just amazing. And it was
Speaker 2: nobody was the hero, no one was the bad guy.
Speaker 2: It was just like this is the way it is,
Speaker 2: you know. It was I mean the cops were as
Speaker 2: bent as the criminals in some situations. Some of the
Speaker 2: criminals are really good guy Robin Hood type guys, you know,
Speaker 2: like that Omar. I was getting from the bad guys
Speaker 2: and giving to the good guys. And it was just
Speaker 2: a just really well done. I had so much depth.
Speaker 2: You know, you couldn't miss an episode because so much
Speaker 2: happened in an episode, and it would just follow different
Speaker 2: characters and you'd have your favorites. I just thought it
Speaker 2: was and all kind of no name actors at the time, right,
Speaker 2: no one famous, brilliant own. It's just a brilliant show.
Speaker 1: So if you weren't playing professional golf, what do you
Speaker 1: think you'd be doing?
Speaker 2: Well, what I think i'd be doing is I'd probably
Speaker 2: be teaching golf or working in a golf shop somewhere.
Speaker 2: I like to think I have some sort of great,
Speaker 2: high level corporate job and be living this dream snow,
Speaker 2: but that I don't think that would have the reality
Speaker 2: is I was going to be My education was in golf.
Speaker 2: I mean I went to school and I did fine,
Speaker 2: but in my head was always in golf. I mean,
Speaker 2: if I didn't make it, as long as I had
Speaker 2: a job where I was around golf, I would have
Speaker 2: been happy. Hopefully I would have ended up building golf courses,
Speaker 2: but I think I probably would have ended up a
Speaker 2: club pro somewhere folding some shirts. But if my dream,
Speaker 2: if it wasn't that, that would be the reality of it.
Speaker 2: If I wasn't quite good enough, I would have been there.
Speaker 2: If the dream would have been a place to play music.
Speaker 2: I've always loved music. I always dabble on the guitar,
Speaker 2: and I remember listening to music from the youngest age possible.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think the Walkman. I got it when
Speaker 2: I was about twelfth birthday or something. I got a
Speaker 2: Walkman and I did not have it off my head
Speaker 2: for like ten years. I just loved it. It was
Speaker 2: just amazing. I still love music. The fantasy would be
Speaker 2: like something involved in the music industry, not necessarily a
Speaker 2: rock star, but just involved in music. Favorite band, Well,
Speaker 2: that's a tough question all in all. If you put
Speaker 2: it all in like, I'd probably say Zeppelin, like because
Speaker 2: they just they got a bit for they've got something
Speaker 2: for everyone, and they really kind of changed music a lot,
Speaker 2: and a lot of music kind of came out of
Speaker 2: kind of what Zeppelin were doing because they kind of
Speaker 2: mixed so many genres together. And it really was the
Speaker 2: first supergroup, you know, I mean four outrageous musicians getting
Speaker 2: together and they actually stayed together for ten years. Prolific songwriters.
Speaker 2: I mean four albums in the first three years, and
Speaker 2: they were all just completely legendary, right, yeah, that would
Speaker 2: be the historic best, but probably current music and stuff
Speaker 2: like Black Keys, White Stripes, Nirvana was a big band
Speaker 2: for me when I was young, Like Cobaine, it's just
Speaker 2: a legend. Listen to stuff like Amy wine House and
Speaker 2: a lot across the board everywhere. Really not a whole
Speaker 2: lot of like rap and hip hop, but I'll listen
Speaker 2: to a little bit of old school hip hop and
Speaker 2: rap every now and then. But well, just anything based
Speaker 2: with based in rock, punk, rock, classic rock, a little
Speaker 2: bit of metal every now and then. So that's kind
Speaker 2: of guitar based music mostly.
Speaker 1: Is Zeppelin created their own genre, which is it's kind
Speaker 1: of fascinating how everything trends. It I think parallels with music,
Speaker 1: parallels with golf, course architecture really well in the sense
Speaker 1: that the guys like Dope and Core and Crenshaw Crying
Speaker 1: kind of recreated a new genre and then you know,
Speaker 1: every all the trends in the industry follow them, just
Speaker 1: like you know, the Golden Age, and then you know
Speaker 1: you had what Die was doing, you know, when he
Speaker 1: started introducing new concepts. It's it's pretty fascinating how music
Speaker 1: and architecture have a parallel there.
Speaker 2: I think I think about that all the time. Actually,
Speaker 2: that's funny that you say that. I mean, I really do.
Speaker 2: I think. I mean, Zeppelin really all that kind of
Speaker 2: sixties kind of seventy early seventies music. I mean, if
Speaker 2: you trace all of it back, it all goes back
Speaker 2: to like the Delta Blues, you know, Robert Johnson stuff.
Speaker 2: It all had this root in the blues, which would
Speaker 2: be like the golden age of music, right, the golden
Speaker 2: age of rock music, I guess would be the blues
Speaker 2: from the Southern US. I mean that was kind of
Speaker 2: the roots of it all, and Zeppelin just took that
Speaker 2: and did it the best, you know, and they took
Speaker 2: it to so many wild and wonderful places and so
Speaker 2: much variety. It was it really was. Yeah, the Pete
Speaker 2: Die kind of Robert Trent Jones kind of period that fifties, sixties, seventies,
Speaker 2: kind of even eighties really was more specific genres, you know,
Speaker 2: like it was, I mean Pete there was a little
Speaker 2: heavy metal, right, It was a bit sadistic. It was
Speaker 2: all about kind of messing with the player's head, getting
Speaker 2: him to feel kind of confused and out and out difficult,
Speaker 2: you know, in a great way. I think Pete Pete
Speaker 2: was great, but yeah, really really difficult. And then you
Speaker 2: had the fluffy style that the pop music. There's been
Speaker 2: so much fluff in architecture, you know, like fountains and
Speaker 2: like white sand and stripy fairways. I mean that's the
Speaker 2: pop music, right, That's the Bay City rollers and with
Speaker 2: no depth. And it's great the first listen when you're great,
Speaker 2: the first listen, or the first time you go play
Speaker 2: the course. But after a while you realize there's just
Speaker 2: nothing there. It's the parallels are great. I'm glad you
Speaker 2: brought that. I've been the only other person I've ever
Speaker 2: heard say that.
Speaker 1: Last year I called on Twitter. Firestone is like Nickelback.
Speaker 1: You realize that every hole is like the same song.
Speaker 1: Over and over again, and I got just so much
Speaker 1: heat from Northeast Ohio just trying to defend their tour stout.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, yeah, Akron is lacking depth, there's no question.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's great in that it's historic and
Speaker 2: everybody who's been a great player for the last fifty
Speaker 2: years has played there, and that does something to a
Speaker 2: place that that that creates like a like a vibe
Speaker 2: or sort of some history, and there's something about that.
Speaker 2: It's always in such a maculate condition and great players
Speaker 2: have always won there, So that's what it's got going
Speaker 2: for it. But it is a little bit nickelback in
Speaker 2: that there's no there's not a whole lot of depth,
Speaker 2: and it really isn't going to inspire you. It doesn't
Speaker 2: inspire like you don't really want to go out and
Speaker 2: play it.
Speaker 1: Again, speaking of the WGCs, you h you won three
Speaker 1: in your career and two of them were the match
Speaker 1: play tournament. Is there something about match play that particularly
Speaker 1: fits your game or the way you play.
Speaker 2: Well? Firstly, I think I think there's a few factors
Speaker 2: why I'm good at it or I have been good
Speaker 2: at it. Firstly, we play a lot of match play
Speaker 2: in Australia growing up more. I mean, I think it's
Speaker 2: probably less now than there was in say the eighties
Speaker 2: and nineties when I was kind of coming through. But
Speaker 2: every serious amateur tournament bar a couple of them, would
Speaker 2: maybe you qualified with a thirty six ol stroke play,
Speaker 2: but it always ended in match play, and we had
Speaker 2: this interclub pennant stuff. And Australia and especially in Victoria,
Speaker 2: it's great. All the golf courses are in what they
Speaker 2: call pennance, which is there's about eight clubs in the
Speaker 2: division and each team every Sunday for about eight weeks
Speaker 2: in sort of March April May sends their best eight
Speaker 2: players to go play against the best eight players of
Speaker 2: another club and it creates these kind of cool little
Speaker 2: rivalries between the clubs. And the sand Belt clubs in
Speaker 2: Melbourne have always had some of the best players in
Speaker 2: Australia coming through and we all wanted to play it.
Speaker 2: So it was this kind of of many little kind
Speaker 2: of Ryder Cup style kind of team match play that
Speaker 2: we would play every week for eight weeks and it
Speaker 2: was a lot of pride at stake, I mean it
Speaker 2: was and if you were playing number one or number two,
Speaker 2: you were playing a top twenty amateur in Australia every
Speaker 2: single week, and we did that every year, and we
Speaker 2: did a lot of that, and that was a big
Speaker 2: deal for us. So I played a lot when I
Speaker 2: was young. It's also my favorite form of the game.
Speaker 2: I just the only one of the only reasons I
Speaker 2: think people generally have long term like annoyances with golf
Speaker 2: is it's always attached to score. It's very rarely just
Speaker 2: attached with just playing gore a shot eighty eight today
Speaker 2: or whatever it is. The score really affects people's enjoyment
Speaker 2: of the game, and I think match play completely gets
Speaker 2: rid of that, and you just it's just a bare
Speaker 2: bones competition and it really doesn't matter what you shoot.
Speaker 2: If you beat your friend, you're happy, you know, or
Speaker 2: your opponent, and it's a good thing. And I just
Speaker 2: think it's it brings out better levels of golfing people,
Speaker 2: or worse, it exposes weaknesses. And I just really enjoy
Speaker 2: the whole, the whole match play thing. It doesn't work commercially,
Speaker 2: obviously professionally, and that's kind of been proven for years
Speaker 2: that it doesn't really like we couldn't really do it
Speaker 2: every week. It just doesn't fit the kind of corporate
Speaker 2: model that we play under. But I love playing it.
Speaker 2: And also I think if I've ever had issues when
Speaker 2: I play golf, it's because it's a common thing. It's
Speaker 2: pretty most golf is that. But my head gets a
Speaker 2: little bit too in my golf swing and a little
Speaker 2: bit too in technique and hit a bad shot and
Speaker 2: I start messing with my swing. And match play I
Speaker 2: do that a lot less because it's so final, like
Speaker 2: your opponents had a decent shot, where you better hit
Speaker 2: a good shot, so you kind of get your hit
Speaker 2: out of your swing and more into the shot, And
Speaker 2: I think it gets my head in a better place
Speaker 2: to play. So I think it's kind of a there's
Speaker 2: a few reasons why I was decent. I think.
Speaker 1: I think match play is so much so interesting too
Speaker 1: because of the recovery shots, Like you know, there's so
Speaker 1: much less penalty for making a seven, so you get
Speaker 1: the chance to hit, you know, great shots. You can
Speaker 1: try them more often than you know in stroke play
Speaker 1: where you know you're hit in trouble and then it's hey,
Speaker 1: how can I get out of here with the chance
Speaker 1: for par and at worse make a bogie?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's a much more free wheeling thing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you can. You will take on stuff that is would
Speaker 2: be completely like absurd in a stroke play, and especially
Speaker 2: in a four round stroke play, you're kind of building
Speaker 2: your house, right, You've got to build a foundation, do
Speaker 2: everything right along the way, and maybe the end product
Speaker 2: adds up. All right. Yeah, match play, I mean it's
Speaker 2: three four shots and that's done. Forget about that and
Speaker 2: go to the next It doesn't matter if you had
Speaker 2: throw balls out of bounds or you had spin one
Speaker 2: into the water, like Sergio at the Masters say like that,
Speaker 2: that's fine, Like you just you just go to the
Speaker 2: next hole. It doesn't completely end your week. So you
Speaker 2: do you usually and you'll see that and the match
Speaker 2: playing in the Rider Cup and President's Cup, the level
Speaker 2: of golf player is always higher because because because of
Speaker 2: the team aspect, but also because of that aspect that
Speaker 2: it it's it's it's success or it doesn't matter, you know,
Speaker 2: it's there's no you don't carry any failures to the
Speaker 2: next hole.
Speaker 1: So I'm curious from your perspective, is winning at the
Speaker 1: professional level overrated and is consistency underrated? When you start
Speaker 1: to evaluate somebody's career.
Speaker 2: Probably now both is obviously a sign of a proper golfer.
Speaker 2: Anyone who's done both, you know, played for a long
Speaker 2: time and won a lot of tournaments. You know, the
Speaker 2: Fred Couples, Davis Love, Tiger Woods, Michelson VJ. I mean,
Speaker 2: clearly there's a class of player that ticks both boxes,
Speaker 2: and that's obviously the ideal. But if you ask guys
Speaker 2: out here, let's say a guy, there might be some
Speaker 2: guys out here who won five or six times in
Speaker 2: twenty years but spent the rest of the time missing
Speaker 2: cuts and just really not competing. Competing once a year
Speaker 2: and maybe winning once every two years. I mean, that's
Speaker 2: that's great, and historically that gets recognized higher than say
Speaker 2: a player like I'll pick on someone Charles Howe. Yes,
Speaker 2: I was thinking about who's a benchmark who every If
Speaker 2: you ask every player out here except that kind of
Speaker 2: handful of guys who have won piles and piles of tournaments,
Speaker 2: almost everyone would have enjoyed Charles Howes's career. I mean,
Speaker 2: he's spent his career finishing between fifth and twentieth. He
Speaker 2: puts a massive check in the bank every week and
Speaker 2: he just plays what it's just got to be fun
Speaker 2: to play that well all the time. It's just he
Speaker 2: hits the ball great, he parts great, He's got zero
Speaker 2: no weaknesses as a The only weakness you would suggest
Speaker 2: is that his CV doesn't have enough wins for a
Speaker 2: guy that good. But he will historically go down as
Speaker 2: like not that great. But anyone who's played with him
Speaker 2: or been out here for the period that he's been
Speaker 2: out here, I mean he would. A guy like him
Speaker 2: is held in very high regard by the players, but
Speaker 2: maybe by the media and stuff, maybe not so much.
Speaker 2: As I said, history likes wins and especially majors and
Speaker 2: big wins. I think it's probably Look, there's a balance.
Speaker 2: I think both. I think both is both as good signs.
Speaker 2: I think the consistent guy like I don't know who,
Speaker 2: like a Jay Haass play six or seven hundred tournaments
Speaker 2: or whatever he did and kept his card pretty much
Speaker 2: every single year and was always putting checks in the
Speaker 2: bank and was always kind of there or thereabouts and
Speaker 2: contended a few times a year and just a really
Speaker 2: really quality player. I mean, that is much harder to
Speaker 2: do than to do that for thirty years than it
Speaker 2: is to just come up win twice in two years
Speaker 2: and then be offered to it. There's piles and piles
Speaker 2: of those guys. I think we all aspire for consistency.
Speaker 2: We all dream about winning, but we aspire to consistency
Speaker 2: about that.
Speaker 1: That's I think that's I feel like everybody is always
Speaker 1: trying to get more consistent. Even when Tiger was at
Speaker 1: his peak, he talked about trying to be more consistent.
Speaker 1: And obviously the more times you're in contention, you have
Speaker 1: more chances to win, so it goes hand in hand.
Speaker 2: And to me, the fun part, the fun part is contending.
Speaker 2: The winning is great, right. The winning is like the
Speaker 2: birthday cake at the end of the party. It's just tremendous.
Speaker 2: It's like you all look forward to it and that's great,
Speaker 2: But everyone at the party has a good time, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean it's the party. I mean the party. That's
Speaker 2: the fun. It's the playing and the stress and the
Speaker 2: pressure and the first team and the nerves and hitting
Speaker 2: shots when you're a bit unsure about it and coming
Speaker 2: up with what you've been working on in practice and
Speaker 2: it works in the tournament. That's the fun. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's the real joy of it. Like it's the it's
Speaker 2: the hitting the great shot when you're really really your
Speaker 2: hands are shaking and you're not really sure about it
Speaker 2: and you've been dreaming of that shot from your kill.
Speaker 2: You hold that great part in the last hold, even
Speaker 2: if it's a great part to make the cut on Friday,
Speaker 2: then you've really been grinding and you hold that twelve
Speaker 2: foot left to right to make I mean, that's the moment.
Speaker 2: That's what makes it a great job. That to me,
Speaker 2: that's the fun and contention. You just get that sort
Speaker 2: of stuff way more often, and the win is just
Speaker 2: the is the cherry on top. You know, it's great
Speaker 2: and we all want to do it, and all the
Speaker 2: stuff that comes with winning is brilliant. But if you
Speaker 2: just gave me the trophies and the money and didn't
Speaker 2: let me actually have the experience of it, I don't
Speaker 2: know if I would take it. The experience of it
Speaker 2: is what is the real kind of joy of the job.
Speaker 1: Is there an event that you didn't win that you
Speaker 1: were in, like the contention deep that like you remember
Speaker 1: the most and think about the most.
Speaker 2: I don't really actually, I mean I was fairly lucky
Speaker 2: h to this point. Hopefully I'm not done vern I
Speaker 2: might be, but hopefully I've got a few more. I
Speaker 2: pop up there a couple more times. But I've never
Speaker 2: really I've gone away a little bit kind of, oh,
Speaker 2: you could have done better than you could have you
Speaker 2: finished third this week or whatever, you probably should have
Speaker 2: done that. But I've never really had any regrets. I've
Speaker 2: never thank goodness, hit one out of bounds on seventeen,
Speaker 2: or like, missed a short part that really really mattered
Speaker 2: to me. I mean, I've missed plenty of short parts,
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, but not one that I carried
Speaker 2: with me too much. There's plenty of tournaments that I
Speaker 2: wish I'd played a little better. I mean the Masters
Speaker 2: in twenty eleven, when Charlburdie the last five hole of
Speaker 2: were readd. I finished fourth and I ended up four
Speaker 2: shots behind. But at the time I was tied for
Speaker 2: the lead on the seventeenth before he went nuts, and
Speaker 2: that was great and I really enjoyed it. But I'd
Speaker 2: had two parts in a three part that week, and
Speaker 2: I if I had any regrets and now early in
Speaker 2: the week, but I looked back and like, those four
Speaker 2: parts were just three parts, you know, But I didn't
Speaker 2: carry it with me for very long. I mean I don't.
Speaker 2: I haven't really had any that I've just taken a
Speaker 2: while to get over. No real heartbreak. I mean I
Speaker 2: don't see the point pretty much every tournament. It's so
Speaker 2: difficult out here that when you actually have a good tournament,
Speaker 2: unless you really really just give it away on the
Speaker 2: last couple of holes, which thank goodness, I've never done.
Speaker 2: I usually leave after a good tournament excited about the
Speaker 2: next one because, oh I'm informed, like I've just finished third. Shit,
Speaker 2: I can win next week. Let's go next week. I
Speaker 2: get so excited about the next week because of how
Speaker 2: my game is that I haven't really looked back. I
Speaker 2: haven't really carried any regrets really, So that's a nice thing.
Speaker 1: It's a fun game when you're playing well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. I mean that's what you do it for, right,
Speaker 2: I mean, it's so hard to play well for any
Speaker 2: length of time that when you do so, it's just
Speaker 2: the best.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's everything starts clicking. So if what's the tournament
Speaker 1: that you haven't won yet that you'd most like to win,
Speaker 1: is it the Masters?
Speaker 2: It'd be the Masters or the Open, the Open Open,
Speaker 2: not the US Open. Obviously, the Masters is such a
Speaker 2: beautiful tournament. It's such just the idea that you could
Speaker 2: go back and play there for pretty much as long
Speaker 2: as you wanted. And the Masters is pretty special, pretty
Speaker 2: high on my list, and the Open too. I mean,
Speaker 2: winning an Open, they'd be equal for me. They're clearly
Speaker 2: equal first, you know, where everything else would be playing
Speaker 2: for third if you like, Yeah, it's the amazing. I mean,
Speaker 2: I love the Open. They Opens such a beautiful, special tournament.
Speaker 2: But you can have bad experiences of the Open. If
Speaker 2: you get the bad drawer and you get the horrible weather,
Speaker 2: it's like you kind of wonder why you even play
Speaker 2: this bought sometimes and sideways reign in Scotland, you know,
Speaker 2: but you never have that at the Masters. You know,
Speaker 2: it's just all and that's not the Open fault. That's
Speaker 2: part of it, and that's and you've got to enjoy
Speaker 2: that aspect of it. But getting bad draws and just
Speaker 2: getting basically getting a bad your number gets pulled out
Speaker 2: of the hat at the wrong time and you get
Speaker 2: your chance for the tournament basically gets taken away from you.
Speaker 2: There's that aspect. This is kind of a bit frustrating
Speaker 2: sometimes the Masters, just because of it's such an exclusive place,
Speaker 2: and it's such a hard place to get in the gate.
Speaker 2: Even to basically have kind of the past, to go
Speaker 2: to Augusta whenever you wander for the rest of your life,
Speaker 2: that would be pretty special.
Speaker 1: What about Augusta makes it so great?
Speaker 2: They tick every box? Firstly, I'm not a big proponent
Speaker 2: for the exclusivity of the place. I'm not big on
Speaker 2: these kind of closed door clubs that perhaps and have
Speaker 2: not kind of side of things. I mean, I know
Speaker 2: it exists, and it's part of it, and that's part
Speaker 2: of why the Masters is the Masters, right because no
Speaker 2: one's really allowed to go there and we for one
Speaker 2: week a year, we get the glimpse it on TV
Speaker 2: and the lucky few get to go see it, right.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's part of its appeal. I get that.
Speaker 2: But the courses, the courses like strategically the most interesting
Speaker 2: we play outside of perhaps some of the open courses.
Speaker 2: It's there's no stone unturned, you know. They the food
Speaker 2: is incredibly good. The practice range now is just the
Speaker 2: best there is. I mean, it's there's the practice rounds
Speaker 2: for us, there's there's only players and caddies inside the ropes.
Speaker 2: There's no one else there, so you don't get these
Speaker 2: like seventeen odd people entourages walking down the first fairway,
Speaker 2: you know, with with psychologists and trainers and stuff and
Speaker 2: the fairies, which just kind of makes the practice rounds
Speaker 2: a bit of a mess, you know, like the autograph
Speaker 2: policy and that they have this great setup where kids
Speaker 2: get kids have a little spot and we all signed
Speaker 2: to the kids and we're not really supposed to sign
Speaker 2: on the golf course side of the clubhouse. So we
Speaker 2: have these great practice round where you actually start interacting
Speaker 2: with the fans a little bit because they're not throwing
Speaker 2: sharpies in your face, you know, so you have conversations
Speaker 2: their cell phone, chatting under the tree and stuff. It's
Speaker 2: just great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the cell phone thing too. They aren't taking pictures,
Speaker 1: so they're actually brilliant.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just they've just got everything worked out,
Speaker 2: you know. Like and I've obviously been there a lot
Speaker 2: of times, and so every time, I mean, we all
Speaker 2: use our tickets and you get a lot of friends
Speaker 2: when you're getting into the Masters, obviously, but I've never
Speaker 2: had someone I've taken to the Masters not walk out going,
Speaker 2: oh my god, that's the best sporting event I've ever
Speaker 2: been to. I mean, everybody says the same thing. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's just across the board, just the just the best
Speaker 2: sporting event there is in the world. From that, from
Speaker 2: a from a event kind of running perspective, there might
Speaker 2: be I mean the Olympics is great, and the World
Speaker 2: Cup soccer and ride a Cup and all that, but
Speaker 2: from a from how they run the tournament, like a
Speaker 2: from a management thing, it's just it's just amazing. And
Speaker 2: every year you go back, they've just kind of you
Speaker 2: didn't think there was anything wrong with it, but they've
Speaker 2: just kind of made it just a little bit better.
Speaker 2: You know. It's it's an incredible production. And the golf
Speaker 2: course they've got it so dialed in. They understand their
Speaker 2: golf course so well that they they don't they can't
Speaker 2: dictate who's going to play well, but they really can
Speaker 2: kind of decide by pimpositions and set up how how
Speaker 2: it's going to come down to the end, how it's
Speaker 2: going to come down to the end on Sunday, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean they kind of they can set up the
Speaker 2: course so it's difficult on Thursday and a little bit
Speaker 2: easier on Friday, and then if they don't, if it's
Speaker 2: a little bit tough on Friday, then then and then
Speaker 2: they let guys have a few birdies on Saturday to
Speaker 2: create the excitement. I mean, it just got it so
Speaker 2: worked out. It's very hard to remember too many Masters that,
Speaker 2: with two hours to play weren't EDGBC compelling, you know,
Speaker 2: every single time. It just seems to be that way. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's just I mean, I'm obviously like being maybe
Speaker 2: even over positive or about this, but it's just there
Speaker 2: is no other event that seems to get it right
Speaker 2: more often than they do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the one that looked like it was
Speaker 1: going to be a snooze fest in recent time was
Speaker 1: speak and sure enough, then twelve happened, and then it
Speaker 1: was like one of the most fascinating finishes of the
Speaker 1: last ten years. But so, I mean, Augusta is a
Speaker 1: it's a really cool place in the Masters. Obviously, it's
Speaker 1: like the pinnacle of the golf yere, which is kind
Speaker 1: of depressing that it happens in April. But how have
Speaker 1: you noticed that the professional game has changed over your
Speaker 1: career in the last fourteen years or so since you've
Speaker 1: been prevalent on the PGA Tour.
Speaker 2: Well, the obvious thing is well, the obvious thing is
Speaker 2: that the way guys hit the ball and the way
Speaker 2: guys work on their golf games. I mean, I was
Speaker 2: coming kind of coming up at the end of that
Speaker 2: era where we still really didn't know how to swing it.
Speaker 2: Probably you know, there was still lots of schools of
Speaker 2: thought on technique. Your coaching and stuff would be a
Speaker 2: little bit of guesswork, a little bit of filling. Each
Speaker 2: coach would have his own like kind of take on
Speaker 2: some and some of them were really different. And guys
Speaker 2: really didn't start hitting the ball well un till they're
Speaker 2: in their thirties, and didn't really start playing very well
Speaker 2: until really kind of getting into that top echelon until
Speaker 2: they were in their thirties and they had ten years
Speaker 2: under that belt and they'd kind of really learned how
Speaker 2: to play goal golf. It's different now, I mean, it's
Speaker 2: it's so well coached. The I think the video camera
Speaker 2: was the worst thing that ever happened for golf technique,
Speaker 2: and I think track Man might be the best. It's
Speaker 2: it's just a guys swing it great. When they're young,
Speaker 2: they hit it miles, they've got their bodies under control.
Speaker 2: I mean, the fitness side of it is much more understood.
Speaker 2: They just the youngsters come out much more polished, much
Speaker 2: just just more experienced looking players like first year and
Speaker 2: that never happened before, Like it was. It just it
Speaker 2: just it used to take such a long time to
Speaker 2: learn the craft that you really you just did your
Speaker 2: time for the first two or five or six years
Speaker 2: until you kind of worked it out. And every now
Speaker 2: and then there was an outlier like Tiger or Sergio
Speaker 2: that got it dumbs right away, but generally it was
Speaker 2: a tough game to learn quickly, and guys are learning
Speaker 2: it much quicker.
Speaker 1: That's kind of one of my theories on what's happened
Speaker 1: with pro golf and why there's been this twenty year
Speaker 1: old explosion was that, you know, my generation, your generation,
Speaker 1: like I didn't, like now, I know really how to
Speaker 1: swing a golf club, and I didn't when I was
Speaker 1: in college and in high school. But when TrackMan came out,
Speaker 1: it really changed, and you know, this generation's kind of
Speaker 1: had to adapt their swing to this this idea ideal
Speaker 1: you know swing. But these young twenty year old kids
Speaker 1: have learned from the beginning how to swing it properly.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean I think track Man it completely
Speaker 2: flipped around. Without getting too technical, I mean, everybody always
Speaker 2: had the ball starting on your swing path and a
Speaker 2: curving relative to the face. Well, I guess all of
Speaker 2: a sudden, track Man and the launch model has proved
Speaker 2: that actually, now the ball starts on the face faceline,
Speaker 2: which was a complete reversal of what everybody thought. And
Speaker 2: for the non technical minor that probably doesn't mean that much,
Speaker 2: but it completely opened everyone's eyes about how to get
Speaker 2: the club on the ball. And then everybody started working
Speaker 2: out where you're going to have to arrange your body
Speaker 2: this way in order for impact to be this way.
Speaker 2: It's a game technically full of contradictions, and it's such
Speaker 2: a game of opposites all the way through which Hogan
Speaker 2: references to his books. I mean, Hogan obviously had all
Speaker 2: this worked out, but it took him thirty years of
Speaker 2: banging balls on the range to get there. Right. Kids
Speaker 2: are getting there now and they're twenty because of things
Speaker 2: like track Man. But it from day one. I mean
Speaker 2: they tell you to hit it down to make the
Speaker 2: ball go up. I mean that is just against all
Speaker 2: instinct that we have to swing down to make the
Speaker 2: ball go up. If the ball goes low, all we
Speaker 2: all want to just lift it up. But what happens
Speaker 2: is when you start trying to lift it up, is
Speaker 2: you either top of the ball and it goes really low,
Speaker 2: or if you're actually talented, you'll hit the club on
Speaker 2: the ball and the ball will start slicing to the right.
Speaker 2: So the ball goes to the right. So going to
Speaker 2: make the next one go right? So you start swinging
Speaker 2: really hard over the top. You swing it left because
Speaker 2: you don't want the club to the ball to go right.
Speaker 2: So what does that make it? It makes it go
Speaker 2: further to the right. And the game is full of that,
Speaker 2: and we had to fight that, you know. But pre
Speaker 2: all this understanding, it was really was trial by error.
Speaker 2: And it's really hard to find something trial by error
Speaker 2: when all of your instincts are the opposite of what
Speaker 2: they need to be. It's a goal. So this this
Speaker 2: the track man and understanding really what does make a
Speaker 2: ball draw or make it fade or go a long
Speaker 2: way or whatever has kind of kind of opened the
Speaker 2: door of this great coaching. When you said these guys
Speaker 2: like XEROFL they come out and their kids and they
Speaker 2: just swing. It's so technically pure, that they're so far
Speaker 2: in front of the curve from relative to where we
Speaker 2: were when we were twenty one twenty two, that it's
Speaker 2: it's almost not a fair fight anymore, you know. It's incredible.
Speaker 1: So I'm curious when we're talking about young players of
Speaker 1: you know, there's a plethora of young talented Australians. If
Speaker 1: you if you could invest, you know, like a stack
Speaker 1: in one of them, who would it be.
Speaker 2: That's an interesting question because I think the most talent
Speaker 2: that I see is a kid called Ryan Ruffles who's
Speaker 2: playing in the Latin America Tour at the moment. He's
Speaker 2: kind of he turned pro very young, about eighteen, even
Speaker 2: seventeen maybe, and he's been fighting to get on the
Speaker 2: web dot com and he kind of he just missed
Speaker 2: getting off that Latin America Tour to get on the
Speaker 2: web dot com last year because he didn't probably play
Speaker 2: enough events. But purely watching him play in the talent level,
Speaker 2: it's very very sound. I mean, he hits the ball,
Speaker 2: smashes it as far as Rory does, and put's great
Speaker 2: and hits it well and his swing is perfect, and
Speaker 2: to me it only seems like a matter of time.
Speaker 2: But golf is a strange game, right, and if you
Speaker 2: spend too long kind of struggling and battling down on
Speaker 2: those smaller tours, that he can create a bit of
Speaker 2: scar tissue when they're in the head and it can
Speaker 2: take some time. But he looks the one on paper
Speaker 2: and when you play with him that he has all
Speaker 2: the tools. But the Australian kid who won the US Amuter,
Speaker 2: Curtis Luck, he plays a different game. It's a really
Speaker 2: interesting game. Shapes the ball a lot. He plays a
Speaker 2: little bit like Bubba, I mean, a different golf and
Speaker 2: a bob. He doesn't hit it as far, but he
Speaker 2: loves it in big draws and big fade, low ones
Speaker 2: in the back pins and high ones in the front pins.
Speaker 2: He plays a really cool golf and he plays golf
Speaker 2: like someone who's a lot older than him. He plays
Speaker 2: very sensible golf. And he's been doing quite well and
Speaker 2: he's on the web this year, and I think it
Speaker 2: won't take him too long, and I think he'll do
Speaker 2: really really well. I think, And there's a few others,
Speaker 2: but they're the two i'd pick out off the time.
Speaker 2: I mean, Ruffles looks on paper like, if he gets
Speaker 2: a all worked out, he's going to be he could
Speaker 2: be a world better. And Curtis Luck, he's one of
Speaker 2: those guys. He looks like he could be on tour
Speaker 2: for a really long time. Smart guy plays, as I said,
Speaker 2: a really cool version of the game, and he's a
Speaker 2: cool character. He does it his own way, which I
Speaker 2: think is which is to be admired. I think in
Speaker 2: this current world of you've got to do it this way,
Speaker 2: You've got to do it this way. He says, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do it Curtis Lock's way, and this is
Speaker 2: going to be fine. But they're the two old pick
Speaker 2: I mean, and they do different style of players, and
Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to I wouldn't bet on either one.
Speaker 2: I'd put them each way, bet on both of them.
Speaker 1: There's two good picks. A yeah, Curtis Is he was
Speaker 1: the first ever player to qualify two ways as an
Speaker 1: amateur for the Masters.
Speaker 2: So that's pretty neat. Yeah, how about that? That's incredible
Speaker 2: in it? I mean two. I mean it's hard enough
Speaker 2: for a professional we get thirty chances of year to
Speaker 2: get into that tournament. He get two chances and he
Speaker 2: got them both incredible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that's I don't know if that'll ever You
Speaker 1: talk about things that may never ever be done again,
Speaker 1: and that's definitely one of them. So you've been quoted
Speaker 1: as a big fan of the LPGA and women's golf
Speaker 1: because of the creativity kind of what you were talking
Speaker 1: about with Curtis, the mechanics, their swings. If you were
Speaker 1: running the PGA Tour, how would you try and make
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour product a little bit more appealing?
Speaker 2: Well, the first thing I would do is I would slowly,
Speaker 2: I would hire people who understood what great golf courses were,
Speaker 2: and I would try my utmost to get PGA two
Speaker 2: events to architecturally interesting golf courses. They don't have to
Speaker 2: be significant and like way up on the rankings, but
Speaker 2: interesting because interesting golf courses produce great winners, and they
Speaker 2: produce great winners who play. It's more interesting to watch
Speaker 2: someone play golf courses that have great strategic interests like Riviera.
Speaker 2: I mean, is there a better hold to watch professional
Speaker 2: golf play than tenet riv It's just fascinating. You can
Speaker 2: watch it all day and thirteen at the Masters, I mean,
Speaker 2: or you go to s Andrews. It doesn't translate on
Speaker 2: TV as well. But if you go to s Andrew's
Speaker 2: and you watch a few of those hold it and
Speaker 2: you'll watch one hundred prose come through, and they'll hit
Speaker 2: it in a hundred different places because they all have
Speaker 2: a little different theory or a little different feel about
Speaker 2: how to play the whole. To me, that's more interesting,
Speaker 2: and you'll get a better type of winner. Not that
Speaker 2: the type of winners we have it bad, but you'll
Speaker 2: you'll see golfers will get better because they have to
Speaker 2: be better, and they have to have more variety and
Speaker 2: more thoughts. So I would go to more interesting golf courses.
Speaker 2: They'll be the first thing I would do. Outside of that,
Speaker 2: I think some different formats would be interesting. I think
Speaker 2: seventy two holf stroke players got just a little bit
Speaker 2: kind of it's just a little bit too much of it.
Speaker 2: I mean, we have so much of it that the
Speaker 2: format might be getting a little bit older. I like
Speaker 2: the s I like the stable for the kind of
Speaker 2: format that kind of encourages aggression a little bit more.
Speaker 2: You know, two points for Bertie only minus one for
Speaker 2: a bogie. That that format I think is pretty interesting.
Speaker 2: But I would get to know somehow. You've got to
Speaker 2: get to know the players. You know that you know
Speaker 2: the NFL sounds of the game, yeah, where it's like
Speaker 2: it's the best my favorite part of the NFL. I mean,
Speaker 2: I love watching football, but the when you have that
Speaker 2: little show on the NFL network or whatever during the
Speaker 2: week and they have all the talk of the quarterbacks
Speaker 2: of their players, or the defensive leader on the side
Speaker 2: of the field yelling at his players, selling them the fire,
Speaker 2: and the little smart ass comments they make back and
Speaker 2: forth like kind of I'm going to get you this time,
Speaker 2: I'm going to get you this time, or you're not
Speaker 2: going to catch me, all that stuff, and it just
Speaker 2: makes football more interesting because you just you're on the
Speaker 2: field for a minute. I would love to see responsible
Speaker 2: marking of players and caddies. And I say responsible in
Speaker 2: that I don't think we should be catching the social
Speaker 2: conversations of players at all. I don't think that's right
Speaker 2: at all. It's just part of the nice nice thing
Speaker 2: about playing golf is having little chats that no one
Speaker 2: else can hear, right, That's part of the fun. But
Speaker 2: the golf specific talk, I think people would lap that up.
Speaker 2: I think it would just be amazing. I mean it's
Speaker 2: a very hard thing, as I said, to do, because
Speaker 2: everyone's got a record button and there's some guy in
Speaker 2: the truck who's going to have a tape of two
Speaker 2: guys talking about something that would be interesting to people
Speaker 2: if it came out public. But the golf talk, I
Speaker 2: mean people want to hear that. I mean, what is
Speaker 2: Ricky saying that like scof like in those last couple
Speaker 2: of holes. What's he saying, I'm going to go at
Speaker 2: that pin on seventeen at Sawgrass? Or is he telling
Speaker 2: SCoV that he's going to hit at thirty feet left
Speaker 2: but he's actually aiming at the pin. That stuff is
Speaker 2: that is interesting, And I think whenever you get inside,
Speaker 2: if you can feel inside the game a little bit more,
Speaker 2: it becomes you know the players a little bit better
Speaker 2: and you relate to them, and there'd be more people
Speaker 2: would have more kind of heroes and a few more
Speaker 2: favorite players, you know, because they'd really liked the way
Speaker 2: a guy kind of went about it and chatted about
Speaker 2: it and talk to his caddy, and caddies would be
Speaker 2: a little bit more famous even because they'd begin everyone
Speaker 2: would see their level of involvement. I know the tour
Speaker 2: really kind of wants to do it, but it's really,
Speaker 2: as I said, loistic. It's a difficult thing in this
Speaker 2: day and age when everyone's got to you could post
Speaker 2: it to the whole world and inappropriate come in here
Speaker 2: or there. It would be it'd be around the world
Speaker 2: in thirty seconds. And that's a scary. That's a scary prospect,
Speaker 2: but I think it would make the product better.
Speaker 1: It'd be cool too. I mean, you could do it
Speaker 1: as like a midweek show from the week before, and
Speaker 1: it would only be more fascinating if you played more interesting,
Speaker 1: stimulating golf courses, because then all of a sudden you'd have,
Speaker 1: you know, more conversations about what are we going to
Speaker 1: do here?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the moments like the conversation that guys
Speaker 2: have on the top of the hill and fisteen that
Speaker 2: the masters. I mean, we see the bombers these days
Speaker 2: hitting adines and stuff end on Sunday and it's but
Speaker 2: generally the whole field like you're standing there and like
Speaker 2: it's a shot that you you know you have to
Speaker 2: go for the green, but you really don't want to,
Speaker 2: you know, which is why it's such an interesting shot,
Speaker 2: and you'll get caddies trying to talk players out of
Speaker 2: staff from players trying to talk to caddy into saying no,
Speaker 2: this is a good idea, and you get there's a
Speaker 2: little minute of real tension, you know, real kind of
Speaker 2: real stuff, you know, and like you say, it could
Speaker 2: be the next week, just like the sounds of the
Speaker 2: game in the NFL show, like midweek, this is kind
Speaker 2: of what happened last weekend, like this is what we
Speaker 2: thought was cool. Like that would be really fascinating, I think,
Speaker 2: and as you said on the tenth at Riviera, like
Speaker 2: the conversations you have would be fantastic. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: hitting driving, No, you're not. The three on We decided
Speaker 2: that on Tuesday. Now I'm going to hit a driver. No,
Speaker 2: we decided three on out the left was the point.
Speaker 2: And you get those things. I mean that that's what
Speaker 2: we're privy to that you know, if we know that,
Speaker 2: so they're not interesting to the players inside the road,
Speaker 2: but we're the only people who've ever heard that stuff.
Speaker 2: No one else has. And I think that that would
Speaker 2: a lot of appeal and the fans and the public
Speaker 2: and the viewers would just get a little bit more
Speaker 2: of a window into the job and what it involves
Speaker 2: and the personalities and everything going forward to be and
Speaker 2: the white I think about golf. I think it'd be great. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that's like the thing that a lot of
Speaker 1: like the common golf fan doesn't. It's so hard for
Speaker 1: a fifteen handicap to wrap their head around the game
Speaker 1: that you guys play because it's it's way different than
Speaker 1: the you know, weekend Warriors game at the local muni.
Speaker 1: And I think getting an inside look, and I mean,
Speaker 1: I think it's so funny. You bring up, like, you know,
Speaker 1: you have a game plan and you say, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to do this all week and then like almost
Speaker 1: all the time you end up having to do. You
Speaker 1: you pull driver on a hole. You say you're never
Speaker 1: going to pull driver on but like why was that?
Speaker 1: And like just getting the inside look to that stuff
Speaker 1: would create a better and more engaged and more you know,
Speaker 1: passionate golf fan.
Speaker 2: I think, I mean, I think it's it's sama no brainer.
Speaker 2: But as I said, there's clearly a big issue with
Speaker 2: them catching stuff that shouldn't be public consumption, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean, most stuff that guys talk about, it's perfectly
Speaker 2: a name. It's like what the weekend worried thought. And
Speaker 2: they're talking about the girlfriend or their wife, or the football,
Speaker 2: the Cowboys last weekend or whatever it is, and it's
Speaker 2: all pretty a name. But every now and then they
Speaker 2: might have something that's not appropriate. I think the players
Speaker 2: kick back against it would be that, like they just
Speaker 2: don't want to get in trouble and they don't want
Speaker 2: to feel like they have to be a mute because
Speaker 2: everybody's recording every word they say. But if you could
Speaker 2: pull it off and make it work, it would be
Speaker 2: it'd be fascinating. I think people would, and I think
Speaker 2: it would be on one level, an instructional. It'd be
Speaker 2: instructional for people too, because you would just you would
Speaker 2: learn so much about how different guys view the game,
Speaker 2: and you would learn how Phil I mean, Phil's conversations
Speaker 2: with Bones historically are just amazing. I mean they're brilliant.
Speaker 2: I mean you couldn't make them up. The best fiction
Speaker 2: writer ever couldn't make those compass up. And like, it
Speaker 2: would be great if people got to hear some of
Speaker 2: those a little bit more than just when the guy
Speaker 2: comes over with the ferry microphone, Like if you actually
Speaker 2: heard the whole thing from start to finish, and it
Speaker 2: would have relativity to what they were talking about on
Speaker 2: the tea when they were going into the second shot,
Speaker 2: So it was just really really interesting stuff and how
Speaker 2: he would go about it versus Tiger and Stevie back
Speaker 2: in the day, or like Ricky and Joe. It's like
Speaker 2: everybody's viewing golf a slightly different way. And I think
Speaker 2: the way we kind of talk, especially under the under
Speaker 2: pressure and under the real situation, you really exposed kind
Speaker 2: of people's weaknesses and strengths. And I think it would
Speaker 2: be just it'd be it'd be like a level of
Speaker 2: access that no one's ever had. I think it would
Speaker 2: be really interesting.
Speaker 1: It would be fascinating. I could only imagine some of
Speaker 1: the conversations.
Speaker 2: And you've been listening to the Right Egg podcast, we
Speaker 2: do the digging for you.