WEBVTT - Can an Object be Haunted? 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:04.680 From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:09.080 riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:12.079 learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:25.680 production of I Heart Radio. Hello, Welcome back to the show. 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:28.319 My name is Matt, my name is known. They called 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:31.400 me Ben. We're joined as always with our superproducer, all 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:35.560 mission controlled decade. Most importantly, you are you. You are here, 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:39.239 and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:45.839 Longtime listeners, you'll recall that we have often we've often 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:49.959 touched on the subject of curses. Were often touched on 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:54.360 the subject of people who have interacted with things in 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:59.120 extraordinary ways they cannot explain. In fact, in an earlier 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:02.880 listener Males segment, we explored the bizarre story of an 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:07.360 anonymous tourists who stole an artifact from the ancient disaster 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:12.280 side of Pompeii. This tourist came back fifteen years later 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:14.959 and returned the object. It's not that she had some 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:19.880 sort of sudden pang of conscience. Instead, she believed hardcore 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:22.920 believed this object was cursed, that it was plaguing her 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:26.160 with all sorts of terrible luck that simply could not 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:31.280 be explained by mundane means. And I'm wondering a good 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:34.000 way for maybe a good way for us to set 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:38.000 off on our exploration of today's topic is to talk 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:43.119 about these objects that surround us in our lives. Matt Nold, 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:46.679 did you all ever have an object in your in 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:48.960 your family, or in your childhood or even the current 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:52.120 day that you felt was on some may be hard 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:55.520 to explain, level unlucky, and there was something weird about it, 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:59.240 some vibe that gave off as though you had psychometry, 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:03.320 never been a big fan of like ceramic clowns for example. Uh, 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:07.160 nothing specific, but uh you a mutual friend of all 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:10.720 three of our Sarah cotton Off, um, who does like 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:12.760 podcast ad sales stuff and we used to work with 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:16.280 years ago. Uh, she is obsessed with haunted objects, so 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:18.640 we should ask her. But um, we went to that 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:22.200 store in New York once I believe it's called gosh 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:23.679 came what it's called it. There was a show called 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:27.239 Auditorium or Oddities on Science Channel that was like about 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:29.520 these you know, quirky, this quirky couple that runs this 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:32.280 oddity shop. And we went in there with Sarah and 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:35.160 she immediately asked them or any of these objects haunted 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:37.959 or cursed, and they're like, no, we we don't. We 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:41.200 don't do that. M it's not haunted in the same 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:43.120 way that we're gonna be talking about today. But this 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:46.840 is my grandfather's wedding ring, and I've been wearing it 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.919 for quite a while, and I have to say, I 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:52.880 believe that it's just my knowledge that I'm wearing his 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:55.280 ring and makes me think about him a lot. But 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:59.360 I swear to you he just a his His voice 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:04.320 appears to not in an actual manifestation, but like I can, 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:08.360 I can hear myself thinking his thoughts way way more 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:11.679 now that I've been wearing this ring. Um, this is 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:14.040 also his stamp. I don't know if you probably can't 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:19.000 read that this stamp. Okay, it's nice to stamp things 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:21.840 with it, but yeah, I don't. I don't have anything 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:26.160 that is unlucky necessarily. I've got a story I can 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:29.280 tell you about this house in general and the luck 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:31.720 or the unluck that it has brought. But that's for 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:35.200 another day. Al Right, Okay, I'm writing it down. You 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:37.160 guys know, I keep a little had here where I 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:41.360 write things, and they my language, so we're going to 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:44.240 follow up on that I've got. I've got a couple 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:48.920 of slides. I've got a couple of I guess you 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:54.440 would call them unusual possessions. Uh. And it's funny too 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:58.840 that we call objects possessions. Don't wait. One that I 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:02.520 can see off hour now is one that I personally 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:09.720 hesitate to touch. It's a carving of mandrill from I 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:14.360 believe West Africa. It's West West African in origin. And 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:17.640 that is also how it came to me and why 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:21.880 it stays in my house, even though I don't particularly 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:23.720 like messing with it. I would say I respect it. 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:27.360 But that story is a story for a another day 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:31.160 as well. The point is that we all have things 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:37.200 like this, things that we imbue with some sort of meaning, 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:40.880 that we anthropomorphize in a degree. You know, like you 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:44.640 might have something that you believe or you like to 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:47.320 think it has a personality, even if you consider yourself 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:51.039 a really skeptical person. Human beings will like name their cars, 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:55.040 their ships and other vessels. There's even an old cultural 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:59.760 belief I believe in Japan that once an object reaches 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:04.599 a hundred years old, it acquires a kind of spirit 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:09.240 of its own and these stories of objects inhabited by 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:13.680 something good or bad. Uh, they occur throughout human history, 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:17.279 they continue in the modern day ways that may surprise 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.479 some of us. And not all of these objects have 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:25.760 the same type of allegedly supernatural aspects. In fact, some 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:29.159 people like the infamous Ed and Loraine Warren, will tell 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:32.480 you that certain objects are not just bringers of misfortune, 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:38.920 but their whole to something somehow sentient. So can an 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:43.359 object be haunted? By the way the weather here in 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:47.039 Atlanta today is perfect for this, This is stormy night weather. 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:51.560 Tiny cathul who says an object can definitely be haunted, well, well, no, 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:54.599 no matter what Fulu or any other ancient one says, 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:57.839 there is no scientific proof at this moment that any 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:03.239 object has ever been han did here are the facts? Yeah? 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:06.880 First things first, at least at the time of this recording, 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:12.840 there's no proof that's universally accepted that anything in history, 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.640 including objects, has been haunted. And and by proof we 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:20.760 mean there's no there's nothing in the world that we 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:24.800 know of now that everyone can point to and agree. Yes, 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.240 you know, there is a ghost in this toaster, and 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.080 it speaks to us through messages burned into the bread 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:33.320 that just hasn't happened yet, or something like that. And 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:37.160 that's because for something to be haunted, there would have 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:41.440 to be some kind of consciousness attached, right, some sort 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:46.320 of sentience, And we don't know very much about our 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:49.680 own conscious states. We don't even know what happens to 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:53.520 the thing we call consciousness when our physical hardware breaks down, 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:56.440 that's right, I mean, and you know it's obviously it's 0:06:56.720 --> 0:07:00.159 research is ongoing, and it's the kind of thing that 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:04.240 can go deep in many directions, whether it's science or 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.000 the study of the actual hardware you speak of ben 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:10.960 the brain itself, or more into metaphysical or even spiritual 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:14.280 realms as to you know, is the brain just a brain? 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:16.880 Is is it imbued with something more like that's that's 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:21.960 part of some greater divine connectivity with the universe, or 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:25.640 some sort of spiritual deity like a soul um. So 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:28.240 there are billions of people across the world who might 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:32.320 believe that they in particular or a group so that 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:36.600 they're associated with no exactly what happens when you die, 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:41.800 when the brain dies, whether it's instant nothingness, you know, 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:45.040 that's that's what my that's what I typically picture and 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:48.320 it's kind of scary. UM or reincarnation seems a lot 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:52.680 more fun. Or a particular type of eternity or afterlife 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:55.480 that might look a certain way, or feel a certain way, 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:58.320 or be based around a certain set of rules. Are 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:00.960 speaking of rules. If you don't follow them, you might 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:05.040 go to the bad place, very bad place, depending on 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:07.880 you know, what you've done in your life on this 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:11.640 earth in the way you've chosen to use that equipment 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:14.640 that Ben was talking about. Um. The problem is that 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:20.200 among all of these folks, the scientists, the philosophers, the 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:23.880 spiritual leaders, you know, they all might have a strong case, 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:25.600 or at least they might think they do, as to 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:29.960 what the real truth is behind sentience and and understanding 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:33.760 and being. But as we all know, uh, no one 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:37.160 really knows. No one really has that definitive proof that 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:39.760 will shut all of those other perspectives down. There is 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:43.720 no right or true answer that we know of. Therefore, 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.000 a lot of this exists in the realm of belief, 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:49.480 as does the idea of haunting. That is correct, and 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:52.640 one of the primary reasons here is something that we 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:56.439 covered a little while back. I can't remember the exact episode, 0:08:56.760 --> 0:09:02.000 but we discussed the current impossibility of measuring whatever the 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:07.679 actual thing is, the energy that would transfer between a consciousness, 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:11.680 a human or any animal or whatever into an object. 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:16.360 Whatever that stuff is, whether it's physical, metaphysical, or whatever, 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:19.840 we have no way of measuring that thing that's stuff yet, 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:24.000 if there is any stuff at all. Right, right, we 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:28.439 don't know what we're searching for. Necessarily, we don't know 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:31.360 how to define it. And and to be absolutely fair, 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:35.160 you know, when we're saying that no one has a 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:39.160 right or true answer, what we what one way to 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:42.480 look at it is the problem is that absolutely no 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:46.240 one has ever been able to convince everyone else that 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:48.959 their answer is correct. So there may be there may 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:52.080 well be an answer about the afterlife. Uh, and it 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:56.040 may be very specific and one of those many religions 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:59.880 or many theories that arose since the dawn of a 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.640 corded history, maybe in fact correct. It's just like, you know, 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:07.439 it's almost eight billion people trying to order a pizza, 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:10.240 and then you know, we can't even agree whether it 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.880 should be a pizza. There's somebody, there's like a whole 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:17.240 you know, group of a billion other people who say, guys, 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:19.760 we should we should have salad. This is not a 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:23.480 cheap day. That's that's kind of where we're at, and 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:25.679 that's where we have been at for a long time. 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:28.640 But we can't we don't know what to measure. Like 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:32.680 if you lose your car keys, great because that means 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:36.080 you know what you're looking for. We've lost we have. 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:40.000 We are looking for something that we cannot really define. 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:43.439 And yes, I think there is I think that story 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:46.280 about the twenty one Grahams as the weight of the 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:48.480 soul is amazing. But there are a lot of problems 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:51.559 if you look into it anyway. So that's one side 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:55.320 of it. There's another side here. There's a conflicting fact. 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:59.680 It is a fact, in arguably that for thousands and 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:04.920 thousands of years, people around the world, independent of one another, 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:09.160 have decided to revere, to fear, to avoid, or in 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:13.560 some cases, gather toward objects and places they believe hold 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:18.240 extraordinary power. A god under a mountain, a ghost haunting 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:22.040 the site of an ancient grave, an entity you know, 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:25.240 maybe anchored to a sword or a staff or a spear, 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:30.320 or a demon inhabiting a doll. So we're all of 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:34.720 these people, these literally millions of millions of people across 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:38.520 the span of human history, just collectively making it up. 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:43.240 That seems really unlikely. That seems incredibly unlikely. And so 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:46.959 because of that, it seems like we have two inarguable 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:52.120 facts that appear to be in opposition, no scientifically accepted 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:57.280 proof that ghosts exist, and countless examples again of millions 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:02.440 and millions of people believing wholehearted that they do. So 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:06.640 in today's episode, we're diving into the space between these 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:11.520 two conflicting facts. And that's what I was gonna skip it, 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:14.000 but you got me, You got me. It's just such 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:20.040 a convenient phrase. We're diving into this space between these 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:22.880 two conflicting facts, and let's see how we can respond 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:28.319 to this question, can an object be haunted? We'll get 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:38.360 into it after a word from our sponsor. Here's where 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:42.680 it gets crazy. Oddly enough, the best place to begin 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:47.040 here is with dolls. Did you guys like knowl you 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:50.719 said you've got to You've got a particular weakness for 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:54.120 creepy ceramic clown figurines. Those are kind of doll like. 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:58.240 I was more, you know, dolls for for young boys, 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:01.400 which we call action figures. I was very into human 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:05.000 and ninja turtles, and you know, g I Joe and 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:08.520 stuff like that. Um. I even had a weird like 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:12.040 crossover interest in my little pony growing up. I remember 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:15.640 that very distinctly. Uh dolls, Yeah, I mean they're really 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.640 just dolls, are just posable figurines of some sort. I 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:23.760 guess the idea of dolls tends to be associated with uh, 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:27.960 young girls, but that also feels a little you know, 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:30.360 in this day and age overly gender. I mean, dolls 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.840 are obviously for anyone, but um, they certainly can be creepy, 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:38.520 those porcelain ones with the very very white uh and 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:43.840 and expressionless faces, um, and seemingly real hair. You know, 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:47.920 gender is a construct. Dolls are for any kind of 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:53.720 creep who wants one. Good good point people you think, 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:56.600 I'm sorry, we think of people's grandmothers, though, having rooms 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:59.680 just overflowing with these things and just looking down upon 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:03.080 you from high shelves. Thankfully, my grandmother was not one 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:05.360 of those people. But but bless you to anyone who 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:06.920 has one of those and had to grow up around 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:09.160 that kind of horror. I'm just gonna posit something here. 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.040 My son is five. We've talked about him a couple 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:15.559 of times. He loves stuffed animals, So not quite dolls, 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:20.000 but similar because a lot of dollmakers, you know, especially 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:21.760 when we're gonna talk about in a little bit, we're 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:25.920 originally making a stuffed animal or stuffed animals as a product, 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:30.200 and then dolls came later. Generally not always that, that's 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:33.680 not always the case, but stuffed animals. You guys, I 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:36.680 think you've seen it before, maybe just the everybody on 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:40.600 this call, But my son was gifted a Mickey Mouse 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:46.480 doll that is like human sized. It's bigger than my son. Yeah. Yeah, 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:49.160 is that one of those gifts as a parent you're 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:52.120 kind of like, thanks. Well, I mean, he loved it 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.080 at the time when he first got it. He still 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:57.880 loves it now, calls him Big Mickey. At night when 0:14:57.880 --> 0:14:59.920 I'm putting my son to sleep and that thing is 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.960 in the room, I am telling you, no matter what 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:06.840 my personal beliefs, just sitting in the corner in the 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:13.320 shadows and seeing its dimensions there, there is something utterly 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:17.040 creepy about it, and I don't know how it It 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.840 doesn't give my son nightmares, he says. He feels safer 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:25.680 knowing that it's there, you know, like I've got um 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:28.600 I probably had a different background from you guys, because 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:34.600 in my earlier years, my very early years, I did 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:40.720 have some sketchy family characters with my loved dearly. One 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:42.480 of them, I may have mentioned to you guys off 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:46.800 air before, was my great aunt nine spelled like the 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:53.360 spelled like the number. And she was regarded as a 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:58.280 practitioner of things that might be considered you know, hedge 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:02.840 magic or folk magic. And she had quite a collection 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:09.080 of all sorts of interesting things and artifacts. And this 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:13.000 was the first person I met who had dolls that 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:18.560 she considered dangerous dolls that were made for a purpose 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:24.000 of specific types. And this is something that is going 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.000 to be familiar with a lot of the folklorist in 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.200 the crowd today. It's also an ancient practice, and it's 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:31.760 practice I was not aware of at the time. But 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:34.320 we'll we'll get to it. So I guess in a way, 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:39.400 I had early experiences with dangerous dolls, and my Aunt 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:44.280 nine has passed on to whatever is on the other 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:49.080 side of this crazy improv exercise we call life. But 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:54.000 I also I think that colored my perception of dolls 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:57.680 in general, you know, And I would see other people 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.880 with these things. I would inevitably think like, oh, what 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:04.840 are they what are they doing with this one? Is 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:08.240 this like a is this like a barbie? Or is 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:11.120 this like a don't touch it, someone will get sick 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:15.320 kind of thing. Uh, we all have this place. And 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:19.200 I love the point about dolls versus action figures. They're 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:23.280 really the same thing. They're figurines, right, of different genres 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:26.800 or types. But yeah, we're talking about the things that 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:31.000 are commonly regarded as toys or collectors items here in 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:34.600 the modern age. For some of us, those are very 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:40.760 nostalgic relics of childhood. For others, they're irredeemably creepy. It's 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:44.639 no surprise that when people talk about haunted objects nowadays, 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:49.320 they tend to talk most often about dolls and and 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:51.280 there are a couple of pop culture reasons that are 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:53.720 very obvious that will get to. But one of the 0:17:53.760 --> 0:18:00.000 most infamous haunted objects is a doll called an About. 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:02.240 And this comes to us from the warrants that we 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:05.040 mentioned at the top that we also did an episode 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:07.280 on I Forgot about that. Is it a two part No, 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:11.040 it's just a one partner. It's great, really great info 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:14.920 in the Warrens. So let's talk about him. Um, they 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:19.840 are paranormal investigators. They are I believe they style themselves 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:25.879 as demonologists. Is that true, Ben, I think demonologists Ed 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:32.600 Warren the or Ed Warren passed away, I believe. But um, 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:37.000 he was a demonologist and Annabelle uh first, like was 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.320 made known to them way back in nineteen seventy and 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:42.879 you probably know it because of the film series. But 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.240 this was a real doll that these paranoral investigators and 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:51.320 demonologists like encountered. There was a student nurse who contacted 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:53.719 them because they were already kind of known for what 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:57.239 they did. Um. She claimed that the doll was just 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:00.480 being weird, like, hey, I got this doll in. It's weird. 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.600 It's not just weird looking, it's being weird, it's doing stuff. 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:10.119 She said that, uh, a psychic told her it was 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.800 inhabited by the spirit of a dead person, a girl 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:18.920 named Annabelle, And immediately the Warrens are like, Okay, yeah, 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:21.040 we need to see this doll. Let's check it out. 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:27.199 And the legend was born, right Yeah. According to the 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:31.320 accounts from the Warrens, this nursing student had a roommate 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:34.640 and she and her roommate when they had learned from 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:39.560 a psychic that this doll was inhabited by a spirit 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.560 of a of a dead human girl. They tried to 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:46.640 make peace of sorts to arrive at an armistice, you know, 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:51.200 and respected space pebesiance to it, etcetera. But they had 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:57.120 no luck. The events continued, and they accelerated, and they 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:02.720 became worrisome and frightening and potentially to pay on how 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:06.040 you hear it described dangerous, So in desperation, the student 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:08.639 reaches out to the Warren's. Just like you said, Matt, 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:12.359 Long story short. You can hear more about it in 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:18.560 our previous episode. The doll Annabelle is currently contained in 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:22.320 a glass display box at the Warren's Occult Museum there 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:25.439 in Monroe, Connecticut. You can go look at it. It 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:29.480 doesn't look like the Annabelle of the movies. I would 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:33.359 argue it looks a little more creepy. But as you 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:38.320 can imagine, skeptics have some issues with the story here. Uh, 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:42.080 they're not They're not quite accusing. Not everybody is saying, 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:45.000 you know, these folks are con artists or anything like that. 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:49.040 There's a guy named Joseph Laycock wrote a fantastic article 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:51.320 about this at the time, it was a Texas State 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:55.639 University assistant professor of religious studies. He thinks the story 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:59.960 may have been influenced by the cultural ecology of the time, 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:05.000 by the zeitgeist, because you said, right, that's when when 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:08.040 the story of Annabelle again begins. According to the Warren's 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:11.400 something else happened a few years prior. There were other 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:15.639 scary doll tropes, like a great Twilight Zone episode called 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:19.680 Living Doll, which came out just about five years before 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:25.040 that Warren story. And this doesn't prove anything, but the 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:29.760 character of the mother in that episode is also named Annabelle. 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:34.200 So if you're really skeptical or you're kind of cynical, 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:39.640 do you think ed Warren found this doll and kind 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:43.840 of thought about the Twilight Zone and then said we'll 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:48.360 call it Anabelle. You know, maybe or even the if 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:52.359 it's true that this nursing student really was experiencing something weird, 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:55.760 maybe it was because of that Twilight Zone, the episode 0:21:55.760 --> 0:21:58.600 that she caught. I mean, you know, who knows there 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:01.560 it's all in a conjecture, right, Hey, can we just 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:04.240 take a moment and really appreciate Nohl's hat right now, 0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:07.320 just before we do anything else. Well, can we appreciate 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:09.160 the fact that this hat was gifted to me by 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:13.360 the magnanimous Ben Bolan. Uh. It says Illuminati on the bottom, 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:19.640 and what is this on the top. Don't trust anyone? Yes, 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:25.720 not haunted by the way, definitely not haunted. I do 0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:30.479 trust some people. Definitely trust you too, mostly, But but 0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:32.760 I I do like the hat and I wanted to 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:37.399 rocket today. So thank you Ben. Sorry for Well, we're talking. 0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:42.400 We're talking about objects, right, That's that's another object. There's 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:45.800 the there's the nihilistic argument that we're all just objects, 0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:49.639 you know, floating in space. And and really, if you 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:52.800 think about it, I was going to save this for later, 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:55.720 but if you think about it, you are listening from 0:22:55.720 --> 0:23:00.840 a haunted object right now. You are as a consciousness, 0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:04.640 as a mind, You are inhabiting a body. You are 0:23:04.680 --> 0:23:07.520 haunting it, you are possessing it. Your body is a 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:11.240 haunted house just happens to be growing all the time. 0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:18.720 So so so I love that John Mayer song Your 0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:21.040 body is a haunted house. Yeah, I have to go 0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:25.240 and go. It's better than the temple one. Uh. This 0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:28.680 this brings us to the idea of haunted dolls in 0:23:28.720 --> 0:23:33.360 the modern day, so excellent horror franchise, The Conjuring. They 0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:36.320 get ahold of this story. It's been in, it's been 0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:40.240 around before you know. They're like the spooky docuseries unsolved 0:23:40.280 --> 0:23:43.600 mysteries type investigations, but the Conjuring takes it to the 0:23:43.640 --> 0:23:47.440 world of fiction, or people might argue even further into 0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:51.560 the world of fiction. And Annabel goes from being an 0:23:51.560 --> 0:23:55.560 oddity and a small Connecticut museum to a global phenomenon, 0:23:55.960 --> 0:23:59.880 the subject of three different films, and it cements its 0:24:00.000 --> 0:24:03.320 status as the world's most famous haunted doll, if not 0:24:03.520 --> 0:24:09.040 most famous haunted object. But it's not alone. There is 0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:15.920 another ext There actually multiple examples of allegedly haunted dolls. Specifically, 0:24:16.119 --> 0:24:19.399 and uh, we found one that you might not have 0:24:19.480 --> 0:24:22.240 heard of unless this was already very much your bag 0:24:22.320 --> 0:24:25.399 of of badgers, your bag of stuffed badgers, your stuffed 0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:29.840 bag of stuffed badgers, anyway you would. You might be 0:24:29.960 --> 0:24:33.120 surprised to hear of another doll that came to prominence 0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:37.440 around the same time, whose name is simply Robert full name, 0:24:37.680 --> 0:24:39.879 Robert the Doll. You just want to go ahead and 0:24:39.920 --> 0:24:43.440 apologize to Robert before we even start talking about him. Um, 0:24:43.480 --> 0:24:46.280 just Robert, We're sorry. We were just talking about you 0:24:46.359 --> 0:24:48.879 for the purposes of this show. Yeah, you've done a 0:24:48.880 --> 0:24:51.800 lot for the podcast, Robert. We just feel like this 0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:55.760 is a story we need to tell. In full disclosure, 0:24:56.160 --> 0:24:58.919 Robert may or may not be on the board of 0:24:58.920 --> 0:25:03.040 Illumination Global Unlimited, so we want you to know that 0:25:03.080 --> 0:25:06.120 we're doing our best to be fully transparent and did 0:25:06.160 --> 0:25:09.640 not exhibit a conflict of interest. Um, Robert's a real 0:25:09.680 --> 0:25:12.880 physical doll. And you guys know how I hate uh 0:25:13.600 --> 0:25:18.960 all right, I just I don't respect clowning people for 0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:22.639 physical features or anything like that. I guess we can 0:25:22.680 --> 0:25:25.240 get away with it, maybe with Robert. Can we see 0:25:25.280 --> 0:25:26.960 can we say it? Can we just say the quiet 0:25:26.960 --> 0:25:31.200 part out loud? He is creepy looking? Yeah, he really 0:25:31.320 --> 0:25:34.840 is creepy looking. Um. You can go online to a 0:25:34.920 --> 0:25:38.640 lot of places and see actual images of Robert first 0:25:38.640 --> 0:25:41.560 and foremost, Robert the doll dot Org. Just have to 0:25:41.600 --> 0:25:43.840 throw that out there. I love love that you are 0:25:43.960 --> 0:25:47.080 l exists. That is what he looks. He's like a 0:25:47.119 --> 0:25:50.680