1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, Welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,319 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is known. They called 6 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our superproducer, all 7 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: mission controlled decade. Most importantly, you are you. You are here, 8 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,239 Speaker 1: and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. 9 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: Longtime listeners, you'll recall that we have often we've often 10 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,959 Speaker 1: touched on the subject of curses. Were often touched on 11 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: the subject of people who have interacted with things in 12 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: extraordinary ways they cannot explain. In fact, in an earlier 13 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: listener Males segment, we explored the bizarre story of an 14 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: anonymous tourists who stole an artifact from the ancient disaster 15 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: side of Pompeii. This tourist came back fifteen years later 16 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: and returned the object. It's not that she had some 17 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: sort of sudden pang of conscience. Instead, she believed hardcore 18 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: believed this object was cursed, that it was plaguing her 19 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: with all sorts of terrible luck that simply could not 20 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: be explained by mundane means. And I'm wondering a good 21 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: way for maybe a good way for us to set 22 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: off on our exploration of today's topic is to talk 23 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:43,119 Speaker 1: about these objects that surround us in our lives. Matt Nold, 24 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: did you all ever have an object in your in 25 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: your family, or in your childhood or even the current 26 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: day that you felt was on some may be hard 27 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: to explain, level unlucky, and there was something weird about it, 28 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: some vibe that gave off as though you had psychometry, 29 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: never been a big fan of like ceramic clowns for example. Uh, 30 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: nothing specific, but uh you a mutual friend of all 31 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: three of our Sarah cotton Off, um, who does like 32 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: podcast ad sales stuff and we used to work with 33 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: years ago. Uh, she is obsessed with haunted objects, so 34 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 1: we should ask her. But um, we went to that 35 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: store in New York once I believe it's called gosh 36 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:23,679 Speaker 1: came what it's called it. There was a show called 37 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 1: Auditorium or Oddities on Science Channel that was like about 38 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: these you know, quirky, this quirky couple that runs this 39 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: oddity shop. And we went in there with Sarah and 40 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: she immediately asked them or any of these objects haunted 41 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 1: or cursed, and they're like, no, we we don't. We 42 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: don't do that. M it's not haunted in the same 43 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: way that we're gonna be talking about today. But this 44 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: is my grandfather's wedding ring, and I've been wearing it 45 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: for quite a while, and I have to say, I 46 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: believe that it's just my knowledge that I'm wearing his 47 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: ring and makes me think about him a lot. But 48 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: I swear to you he just a his His voice 49 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: appears to not in an actual manifestation, but like I can, 50 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: I can hear myself thinking his thoughts way way more 51 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 1: now that I've been wearing this ring. Um, this is 52 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: also his stamp. I don't know if you probably can't 53 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: read that this stamp. Okay, it's nice to stamp things 54 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: with it, but yeah, I don't. I don't have anything 55 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: that is unlucky necessarily. I've got a story I can 56 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: tell you about this house in general and the luck 57 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: or the unluck that it has brought. But that's for 58 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: another day. Al Right, Okay, I'm writing it down. You 59 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: guys know, I keep a little had here where I 60 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: write things, and they my language, so we're going to 61 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: follow up on that I've got. I've got a couple 62 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: of slides. I've got a couple of I guess you 63 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: would call them unusual possessions. Uh. And it's funny too 64 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: that we call objects possessions. Don't wait. One that I 65 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: can see off hour now is one that I personally 66 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: hesitate to touch. It's a carving of mandrill from I 67 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: believe West Africa. It's West West African in origin. And 68 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: that is also how it came to me and why 69 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: it stays in my house, even though I don't particularly 70 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: like messing with it. I would say I respect it. 71 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: But that story is a story for a another day 72 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 1: as well. The point is that we all have things 73 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: like this, things that we imbue with some sort of meaning, 74 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: that we anthropomorphize in a degree. You know, like you 75 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: might have something that you believe or you like to 76 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: think it has a personality, even if you consider yourself 77 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 1: a really skeptical person. Human beings will like name their cars, 78 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 1: their ships and other vessels. There's even an old cultural 79 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: belief I believe in Japan that once an object reaches 80 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: a hundred years old, it acquires a kind of spirit 81 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: of its own and these stories of objects inhabited by 82 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: something good or bad. Uh, they occur throughout human history, 83 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: they continue in the modern day ways that may surprise 84 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 1: some of us. And not all of these objects have 85 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: the same type of allegedly supernatural aspects. In fact, some 86 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 1: people like the infamous Ed and Loraine Warren, will tell 87 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 1: you that certain objects are not just bringers of misfortune, 88 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: but their whole to something somehow sentient. So can an 89 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:43,359 Speaker 1: object be haunted? By the way the weather here in 90 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: Atlanta today is perfect for this, This is stormy night weather. 91 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: Tiny cathul who says an object can definitely be haunted, well, well, no, 92 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: no matter what Fulu or any other ancient one says, 93 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: there is no scientific proof at this moment that any 94 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:03,239 Speaker 1: object has ever been han did here are the facts? Yeah? 95 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: First things first, at least at the time of this recording, 96 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 1: there's no proof that's universally accepted that anything in history, 97 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: including objects, has been haunted. And and by proof we 98 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: mean there's no there's nothing in the world that we 99 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: know of now that everyone can point to and agree. Yes, 100 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: you know, there is a ghost in this toaster, and 101 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: it speaks to us through messages burned into the bread 102 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: that just hasn't happened yet, or something like that. And 103 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: that's because for something to be haunted, there would have 104 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: to be some kind of consciousness attached, right, some sort 105 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: of sentience, And we don't know very much about our 106 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: own conscious states. We don't even know what happens to 107 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: the thing we call consciousness when our physical hardware breaks down, 108 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: that's right, I mean, and you know it's obviously it's 109 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,159 Speaker 1: research is ongoing, and it's the kind of thing that 110 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: can go deep in many directions, whether it's science or 111 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: the study of the actual hardware you speak of ben 112 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: the brain itself, or more into metaphysical or even spiritual 113 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: realms as to you know, is the brain just a brain? 114 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: Is is it imbued with something more like that's that's 115 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: part of some greater divine connectivity with the universe, or 116 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: some sort of spiritual deity like a soul um. So 117 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: there are billions of people across the world who might 118 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: believe that they in particular or a group so that 119 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: they're associated with no exactly what happens when you die, 120 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: when the brain dies, whether it's instant nothingness, you know, 121 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: that's that's what my that's what I typically picture and 122 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: it's kind of scary. UM or reincarnation seems a lot 123 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: more fun. Or a particular type of eternity or afterlife 124 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: that might look a certain way, or feel a certain way, 125 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: or be based around a certain set of rules. Are 126 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: speaking of rules. If you don't follow them, you might 127 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: go to the bad place, very bad place, depending on 128 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: you know, what you've done in your life on this 129 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: earth in the way you've chosen to use that equipment 130 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: that Ben was talking about. Um. The problem is that 131 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: among all of these folks, the scientists, the philosophers, the 132 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: spiritual leaders, you know, they all might have a strong case, 133 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: or at least they might think they do, as to 134 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: what the real truth is behind sentience and and understanding 135 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: and being. But as we all know, uh, no one 136 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: really knows. No one really has that definitive proof that 137 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: will shut all of those other perspectives down. There is 138 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: no right or true answer that we know of. Therefore, 139 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: a lot of this exists in the realm of belief, 140 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: as does the idea of haunting. That is correct, and 141 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: one of the primary reasons here is something that we 142 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 1: covered a little while back. I can't remember the exact episode, 143 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: but we discussed the current impossibility of measuring whatever the 144 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 1: actual thing is, the energy that would transfer between a consciousness, 145 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: a human or any animal or whatever into an object. 146 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: Whatever that stuff is, whether it's physical, metaphysical, or whatever, 147 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: we have no way of measuring that thing that's stuff yet, 148 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: if there is any stuff at all. Right, right, we 149 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 1: don't know what we're searching for. Necessarily, we don't know 150 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: how to define it. And and to be absolutely fair, 151 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: you know, when we're saying that no one has a 152 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: right or true answer, what we what one way to 153 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: look at it is the problem is that absolutely no 154 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: one has ever been able to convince everyone else that 155 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,959 Speaker 1: their answer is correct. So there may be there may 156 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 1: well be an answer about the afterlife. Uh, and it 157 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: may be very specific and one of those many religions 158 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: or many theories that arose since the dawn of a 159 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: corded history, maybe in fact correct. It's just like, you know, 160 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,439 Speaker 1: it's almost eight billion people trying to order a pizza, 161 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: and then you know, we can't even agree whether it 162 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: should be a pizza. There's somebody, there's like a whole 163 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: you know, group of a billion other people who say, guys, 164 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: we should we should have salad. This is not a 165 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: cheap day. That's that's kind of where we're at, and 166 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 1: that's where we have been at for a long time. 167 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: But we can't we don't know what to measure. Like 168 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 1: if you lose your car keys, great because that means 169 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: you know what you're looking for. We've lost we have. 170 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: We are looking for something that we cannot really define. 171 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 1: And yes, I think there is I think that story 172 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: about the twenty one Grahams as the weight of the 173 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: soul is amazing. But there are a lot of problems 174 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 1: if you look into it anyway. So that's one side 175 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: of it. There's another side here. There's a conflicting fact. 176 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: It is a fact, in arguably that for thousands and 177 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: thousands of years, people around the world, independent of one another, 178 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: have decided to revere, to fear, to avoid, or in 179 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: some cases, gather toward objects and places they believe hold 180 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: extraordinary power. A god under a mountain, a ghost haunting 181 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: the site of an ancient grave, an entity you know, 182 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: maybe anchored to a sword or a staff or a spear, 183 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: or a demon inhabiting a doll. So we're all of 184 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: these people, these literally millions of millions of people across 185 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: the span of human history, just collectively making it up. 186 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: That seems really unlikely. That seems incredibly unlikely. And so 187 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,959 Speaker 1: because of that, it seems like we have two inarguable 188 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: facts that appear to be in opposition, no scientifically accepted 189 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: proof that ghosts exist, and countless examples again of millions 190 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: and millions of people believing wholehearted that they do. So 191 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: in today's episode, we're diving into the space between these 192 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: two conflicting facts. And that's what I was gonna skip it, 193 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: but you got me, You got me. It's just such 194 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: a convenient phrase. We're diving into this space between these 195 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: two conflicting facts, and let's see how we can respond 196 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 1: to this question, can an object be haunted? We'll get 197 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: into it after a word from our sponsor. Here's where 198 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 1: it gets crazy. Oddly enough, the best place to begin 199 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: here is with dolls. Did you guys like knowl you 200 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,719 Speaker 1: said you've got to You've got a particular weakness for 201 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: creepy ceramic clown figurines. Those are kind of doll like. 202 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: I was more, you know, dolls for for young boys, 203 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: which we call action figures. I was very into human 204 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: and ninja turtles, and you know, g I Joe and 205 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: stuff like that. Um. I even had a weird like 206 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: crossover interest in my little pony growing up. I remember 207 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: that very distinctly. Uh dolls, Yeah, I mean they're really 208 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: just dolls, are just posable figurines of some sort. I 209 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: guess the idea of dolls tends to be associated with uh, 210 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: young girls, but that also feels a little you know, 211 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: in this day and age overly gender. I mean, dolls 212 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: are obviously for anyone, but um, they certainly can be creepy, 213 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: those porcelain ones with the very very white uh and 214 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: and expressionless faces, um, and seemingly real hair. You know, 215 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: gender is a construct. Dolls are for any kind of 216 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: creep who wants one. Good good point people you think, 217 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, we think of people's grandmothers, though, having rooms 218 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: just overflowing with these things and just looking down upon 219 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: you from high shelves. Thankfully, my grandmother was not one 220 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: of those people. But but bless you to anyone who 221 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: has one of those and had to grow up around 222 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: that kind of horror. I'm just gonna posit something here. 223 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: My son is five. We've talked about him a couple 224 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 1: of times. He loves stuffed animals, So not quite dolls, 225 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: but similar because a lot of dollmakers, you know, especially 226 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: when we're gonna talk about in a little bit, we're 227 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: originally making a stuffed animal or stuffed animals as a product, 228 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: and then dolls came later. Generally not always that, that's 229 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: not always the case, but stuffed animals. You guys, I 230 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: think you've seen it before, maybe just the everybody on 231 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: this call, But my son was gifted a Mickey Mouse 232 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: doll that is like human sized. It's bigger than my son. Yeah. Yeah, 233 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: is that one of those gifts as a parent you're 234 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: kind of like, thanks. Well, I mean, he loved it 235 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: at the time when he first got it. He still 236 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: loves it now, calls him Big Mickey. At night when 237 00:14:57,880 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: I'm putting my son to sleep and that thing is 238 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: in the room, I am telling you, no matter what 239 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: my personal beliefs, just sitting in the corner in the 240 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: shadows and seeing its dimensions there, there is something utterly 241 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: creepy about it, and I don't know how it It 242 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: doesn't give my son nightmares, he says. He feels safer 243 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: knowing that it's there, you know, like I've got um 244 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: I probably had a different background from you guys, because 245 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: in my earlier years, my very early years, I did 246 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: have some sketchy family characters with my loved dearly. One 247 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: of them, I may have mentioned to you guys off 248 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: air before, was my great aunt nine spelled like the 249 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: spelled like the number. And she was regarded as a 250 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: practitioner of things that might be considered you know, hedge 251 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: magic or folk magic. And she had quite a collection 252 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: of all sorts of interesting things and artifacts. And this 253 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: was the first person I met who had dolls that 254 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: she considered dangerous dolls that were made for a purpose 255 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: of specific types. And this is something that is going 256 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: to be familiar with a lot of the folklorist in 257 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: the crowd today. It's also an ancient practice, and it's 258 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: practice I was not aware of at the time. But 259 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: we'll we'll get to it. So I guess in a way, 260 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: I had early experiences with dangerous dolls, and my Aunt 261 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: nine has passed on to whatever is on the other 262 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: side of this crazy improv exercise we call life. But 263 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: I also I think that colored my perception of dolls 264 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: in general, you know, And I would see other people 265 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: with these things. I would inevitably think like, oh, what 266 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: are they what are they doing with this one? Is 267 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: this like a is this like a barbie? Or is 268 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: this like a don't touch it, someone will get sick 269 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: kind of thing. Uh, we all have this place. And 270 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: I love the point about dolls versus action figures. They're 271 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: really the same thing. They're figurines, right, of different genres 272 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: or types. But yeah, we're talking about the things that 273 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: are commonly regarded as toys or collectors items here in 274 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: the modern age. For some of us, those are very 275 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: nostalgic relics of childhood. For others, they're irredeemably creepy. It's 276 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: no surprise that when people talk about haunted objects nowadays, 277 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: they tend to talk most often about dolls and and 278 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: there are a couple of pop culture reasons that are 279 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: very obvious that will get to. But one of the 280 00:17:53,760 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: most infamous haunted objects is a doll called an About. 281 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 1: And this comes to us from the warrants that we 282 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: mentioned at the top that we also did an episode 283 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: on I Forgot about that. Is it a two part No, 284 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: it's just a one partner. It's great, really great info 285 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 1: in the Warrens. So let's talk about him. Um, they 286 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: are paranormal investigators. They are I believe they style themselves 287 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: as demonologists. Is that true, Ben, I think demonologists Ed 288 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: Warren the or Ed Warren passed away, I believe. But um, 289 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: he was a demonologist and Annabelle uh first, like was 290 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: made known to them way back in nineteen seventy and 291 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 1: you probably know it because of the film series. But 292 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: this was a real doll that these paranoral investigators and 293 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: demonologists like encountered. There was a student nurse who contacted 294 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:53,719 Speaker 1: them because they were already kind of known for what 295 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,239 Speaker 1: they did. Um. She claimed that the doll was just 296 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: being weird, like, hey, I got this doll in. It's weird. 297 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: It's not just weird looking, it's being weird, it's doing stuff. 298 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: She said that, uh, a psychic told her it was 299 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: inhabited by the spirit of a dead person, a girl 300 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 1: named Annabelle, And immediately the Warrens are like, Okay, yeah, 301 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: we need to see this doll. Let's check it out. 302 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:27,199 Speaker 1: And the legend was born, right Yeah. According to the 303 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: accounts from the Warrens, this nursing student had a roommate 304 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 1: and she and her roommate when they had learned from 305 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: a psychic that this doll was inhabited by a spirit 306 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: of a of a dead human girl. They tried to 307 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: make peace of sorts to arrive at an armistice, you know, 308 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: and respected space pebesiance to it, etcetera. But they had 309 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 1: no luck. The events continued, and they accelerated, and they 310 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 1: became worrisome and frightening and potentially to pay on how 311 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: you hear it described dangerous, So in desperation, the student 312 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: reaches out to the Warren's. Just like you said, Matt, 313 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: Long story short. You can hear more about it in 314 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: our previous episode. The doll Annabelle is currently contained in 315 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: a glass display box at the Warren's Occult Museum there 316 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 1: in Monroe, Connecticut. You can go look at it. It 317 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: doesn't look like the Annabelle of the movies. I would 318 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: argue it looks a little more creepy. But as you 319 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: can imagine, skeptics have some issues with the story here. Uh, 320 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: they're not They're not quite accusing. Not everybody is saying, 321 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: you know, these folks are con artists or anything like that. 322 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: There's a guy named Joseph Laycock wrote a fantastic article 323 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: about this at the time, it was a Texas State 324 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: University assistant professor of religious studies. He thinks the story 325 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: may have been influenced by the cultural ecology of the time, 326 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: by the zeitgeist, because you said, right, that's when when 327 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: the story of Annabelle again begins. According to the Warren's 328 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: something else happened a few years prior. There were other 329 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: scary doll tropes, like a great Twilight Zone episode called 330 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: Living Doll, which came out just about five years before 331 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: that Warren story. And this doesn't prove anything, but the 332 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: character of the mother in that episode is also named Annabelle. 333 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: So if you're really skeptical or you're kind of cynical, 334 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 1: do you think ed Warren found this doll and kind 335 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: of thought about the Twilight Zone and then said we'll 336 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:48,360 Speaker 1: call it Anabelle. You know, maybe or even the if 337 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 1: it's true that this nursing student really was experiencing something weird, 338 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: maybe it was because of that Twilight Zone, the episode 339 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: that she caught. I mean, you know, who knows there 340 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: it's all in a conjecture, right, Hey, can we just 341 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: take a moment and really appreciate Nohl's hat right now, 342 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: just before we do anything else. Well, can we appreciate 343 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,160 Speaker 1: the fact that this hat was gifted to me by 344 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,360 Speaker 1: the magnanimous Ben Bolan. Uh. It says Illuminati on the bottom, 345 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:19,640 Speaker 1: and what is this on the top. Don't trust anyone? Yes, 346 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 1: not haunted by the way, definitely not haunted. I do 347 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:30,479 Speaker 1: trust some people. Definitely trust you too, mostly, But but 348 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: I I do like the hat and I wanted to 349 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 1: rocket today. So thank you Ben. Sorry for Well, we're talking. 350 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 1: We're talking about objects, right, That's that's another object. There's 351 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: the there's the nihilistic argument that we're all just objects, 352 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: you know, floating in space. And and really, if you 353 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: think about it, I was going to save this for later, 354 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: but if you think about it, you are listening from 355 00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: a haunted object right now. You are as a consciousness, 356 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 1: as a mind, You are inhabiting a body. You are 357 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: haunting it, you are possessing it. Your body is a 358 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 1: haunted house just happens to be growing all the time. 359 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: So so so I love that John Mayer song Your 360 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: body is a haunted house. Yeah, I have to go 361 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: and go. It's better than the temple one. Uh. This 362 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 1: this brings us to the idea of haunted dolls in 363 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:33,360 Speaker 1: the modern day, so excellent horror franchise, The Conjuring. They 364 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: get ahold of this story. It's been in, it's been 365 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: around before you know. They're like the spooky docuseries unsolved 366 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: mysteries type investigations, but the Conjuring takes it to the 367 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 1: world of fiction, or people might argue even further into 368 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: the world of fiction. And Annabel goes from being an 369 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: oddity and a small Connecticut museum to a global phenomenon, 370 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: the subject of three different films, and it cements its 371 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: status as the world's most famous haunted doll, if not 372 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: most famous haunted object. But it's not alone. There is 373 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 1: another ext There actually multiple examples of allegedly haunted dolls. Specifically, 374 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: and uh, we found one that you might not have 375 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: heard of unless this was already very much your bag 376 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 1: of of badgers, your bag of stuffed badgers, your stuffed 377 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: bag of stuffed badgers, anyway you would. You might be 378 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,120 Speaker 1: surprised to hear of another doll that came to prominence 379 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: around the same time, whose name is simply Robert full name, 380 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 1: Robert the Doll. You just want to go ahead and 381 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: apologize to Robert before we even start talking about him. Um, 382 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: just Robert, We're sorry. We were just talking about you 383 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 1: for the purposes of this show. Yeah, you've done a 384 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: lot for the podcast, Robert. We just feel like this 385 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: is a story we need to tell. In full disclosure, 386 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 1: Robert may or may not be on the board of 387 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: Illumination Global Unlimited, so we want you to know that 388 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 1: we're doing our best to be fully transparent and did 389 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,640 Speaker 1: not exhibit a conflict of interest. Um, Robert's a real 390 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: physical doll. And you guys know how I hate uh 391 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: all right, I just I don't respect clowning people for 392 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: physical features or anything like that. I guess we can 393 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: get away with it, maybe with Robert. Can we see 394 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: can we say it? Can we just say the quiet 395 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: part out loud? He is creepy looking? Yeah, he really 396 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: is creepy looking. Um. You can go online to a 397 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 1: lot of places and see actual images of Robert first 398 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: and foremost, Robert the doll dot Org. Just have to 399 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: throw that out there. I love love that you are 400 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: l exists. That is what he looks. He's like a 401 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: creepy sailor. He looks like kind of like a doll. 402 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: Where it's like, show me where the bad man touched 403 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 1: you kind of doll. Um also like like like maybe 404 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: like a dummy he would use to do like CPR 405 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 1: practice or something like that. But very uncanny, these weird 406 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: segments of fabric that are joined together to make the 407 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: different sections of his face. That seems very Hannibal lecter e. 408 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: That's see, it's I don't know, that's I mean, obviously 409 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: no offense. Robert h no offense. So let's talk about Robert. 410 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: Robert was let's say, the possession of it's a doll, 411 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: it's a thing. So it was owned by Robert Eugene 412 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: Auto as a person. I propose we call Robert Eugene 413 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 1: Auto Gene for the purpose of this story, just to 414 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: keep it, keep it clear fully, Gene was Roberts caretaker. 415 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: Let's say. Um, and you can read a lot of 416 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: different stories, origin stories, some that claim to be original, 417 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,239 Speaker 1: some that seem to be sort of fan fiction. Um, 418 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: you can read it just a ton of different versions 419 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: of Robert's story. But let's let's just talk about the 420 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: official one that you can find there on that website 421 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: you just mentioned. Nor. Yes, it was created as a 422 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 1: one of a kind creepy doll by the Steve Company. 423 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, as Steve might be stife, I'm gonna go 424 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: Steve Company of Germany near the turn of the century. 425 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: Um it, I don't want to hear ta rary. He 426 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 1: is forty inches tall and stuffed with wood wool, which 427 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: is known as excelsior, which I am tickled by because 428 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 1: excelsior is also a term that journalists would maybe used 429 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: to define something of excellent quality, maximum luxury, and it 430 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 1: was a Marvel Comics legend, stan Lee's personal life motto 431 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: excelsior with the exclamation market them. But it's also wood 432 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,640 Speaker 1: wool shavings. It's basically it's like wood sawdusty type shavings 433 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 1: that you can use to stuff something with. So probably 434 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: already has a bit of a you know, shed like 435 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: smell to it. And yes, he is in fact dressed 436 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: like a sailor in a little stay other suit. And 437 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: at one point he was painted kind of like a 438 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: court jester. Um. But but all that stuff is worn 439 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: off over the years. Um. And he is quite large, right, Yes, 440 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: yeah he's Ah, he's a big mickey all his own. 441 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 1: So the the official story is that, uh, the Auto 442 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: family was a pretty prominent family in Key West Florida, 443 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: and Otto's grandfather was on a trip to Germany in 444 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 1: nineteen o four. This is where he is believed to 445 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: have picked up Robert as a gift for his grandson. 446 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: The story is as as Matt said, a little murky 447 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: at this point, because the legends get a little bit juicier. 448 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,479 Speaker 1: You'll see one that claims a young woman of quote 449 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: Bahamian descent gave Otto this doll, either as a gift 450 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: or as a curse, kind of a poison apple for 451 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: some unspecified slight. And whatever the case, and whether the 452 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: legend or the official story, the truth of the matter 453 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: is that Auto becomes incredibly enamored of and attached to 454 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: this doll. He names it after himself, Robert the Doll. 455 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: Something interesting happens psychologically. He builds, or he gets his 456 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: folks to build a boy's home, a boy's room in 457 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: the attic and the family attic just for Robert, you know, 458 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: complete with toys, chairs, a bed, the whole nine. And 459 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: then he started blaming anything wrong that he did on 460 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,479 Speaker 1: this doll. So someone would say, hey, did you track 461 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: in mud on the floor or sand or something like that, 462 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: and he would say that wasn't me. That was Robert, 463 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: and they would say, oh, okay, Jean, but this is 464 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: starting to get a little weird, you know, as this 465 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: your imaginary friend, et cetera. They probably didn't think about 466 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: it at the time, but I know a lot of 467 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: our fellow conspiracy realist in the audience are wondering, was 468 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: this boy making a tulpa a thought form interesting yeah, 469 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: or what was he dealing with something, you know, mental 470 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: health like in his life that some kind of disassociation 471 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: or some kind of you know, application of his own 472 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: actions onto this thing as a Anyway, I'm not a 473 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: psychologist who knows what was going on inside Jean and 474 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: or Robert, but it's a it's definitely strange because it 475 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: wasn't just a childhood thing, right, This relationship between Robert 476 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: the Man and Robert the Doll continued. Yes, Jean became 477 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: a pretty well known regional artist who is widely considered 478 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: an eccentric. The partnership between Robert the Guy and Robert 479 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: the Doll continued well into adulthood. Um, that's an interesting 480 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: point about disassociation too. We would have to ask where 481 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: it came from. Could there have been some sort of 482 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: traumatic situation occurring if so, that's lost to history. Eventually, 483 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: Robert the Man, Robert Eginato, passes away. His wife, who 484 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: survives him, has always hated this thing, you know what 485 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: I mean. She's she's of the mind that you know, 486 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 1: call her conservative, but she's thinking a marriage is between 487 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: two people, not two people in a doll. Anyhow, as 488 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: soon as he passes away, she orders that this doll 489 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: be locked up in a cedar chest and hidden in 490 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: the attic, never touched again. She passes away, and years 491 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: and years after her death, this doll Robert is rediscovered. 492 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: And now if you wish, you can visit Robert at 493 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: the East Martello Museum. Oh, we should mention it wasn't 494 00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: just a situation of Gene. Robert the Man be weird 495 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: it around the doll. Other people said the doll would 496 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: do weird stuff, like it would move, it would exhibit 497 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: facial expressions. Maybe it would change. It would change, Uh, 498 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: it would People would hear voices around it, things like that. 499 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: And now if you wish you can visit Robert. He 500 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: still has his stuffed teddy bear too, because he had 501 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: his own toys. Remember, Oh, dude, I forgot about that. 502 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: That was that was the whole thing. If you if 503 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: you check out Robert at the museum right now, he's 504 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: holding a doll himself, So it is uh, I don't know, man, 505 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: I wonder if that Teddy Bear then becomes the next 506 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: thing somehow infected or it's a host. But this it's 507 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: strange because if you look at the history of this 508 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: of this guy, it came into the public eye kind 509 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: of around the same time as Annabelle or its discovery, 510 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: which means it was also a few years after that's 511 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: Twilight Zone episode. Just Teddy Rucks been figure into all this, 512 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: that's my big question. My Teddy Rucks been asked me 513 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: not to include them in this episode. Fair enough, my 514 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: Teddy Rocks, but also has a bit of a hold 515 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: over me, so we'll just change the subject. Still my 516 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: absolute favorite thing as a kid. When did you put 517 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: the other tapes in like that many tapes? Yeah? But 518 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: did you put in like your Mega death tapes? Oh? Yeah, 519 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: well no, it was um guy with Michael W. Smith. 520 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: Well that's not evil at all. Takes on a whole 521 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: different feel when you put in like some satan music. 522 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: Did you hear that? Holy cal al right? When I 523 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 1: said satan music, there's this huge thunderclap. It's been great. 524 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys can hear it on 525 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: my end, but it's still going. It's been going. That 526 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: was the big one, the first big one I've heard 527 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 1: in this recording, and you just right after you said that. 528 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: So we know that when people go to visit Robert 529 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: at this museum, they some some people will still report 530 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,279 Speaker 1: that they've experienced something they can explain, and a lot 531 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,879 Speaker 1: of people right to the doll after visiting him, isn't 532 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 1: that correct? That's right. Apology letters are often written to 533 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 1: Robert for visiting him without his permission. If you go 534 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: to many YouTube videos about Robert the Doll, you will 535 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: see in the comments section, post after after post after 536 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: post of people saying, hey, sorry, Robert, just we want 537 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 1: to learn about your story. Didn't mean to disturb you 538 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: or you know, sorry for watching or learning about you 539 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:47,879 Speaker 1: without your permissions. One joking about that earlier, I for one, 540 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 1: would like to extend a heartfelt apology to Robert for 541 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 1: all the terrible things I said earlier in the podcast. 542 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,800 Speaker 1: So please for my humblest apologies, Robert, and please please 543 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 1: forgive me. Forgive me, Robert. I hope you're doing well. 544 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: I feel no need to apologize to you. Um I 545 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: do wish you the best, but I will call that 546 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 1: you seem to be treated better than a lot of 547 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:17,839 Speaker 1: human beings these days. Throwing shade at Robert. I'm so 548 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: glad that we have an image like looking behind you, Ben, 549 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,760 Speaker 1: so when Robert just kind of creeps up behind your shoulder, 550 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: we'll be able to give you just a split second warning. 551 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,800 Speaker 1: That's not a ding That's not a ding on Robert. 552 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: That's a ding on the human species treat each other better, 553 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Who else should you be 554 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:42,320 Speaker 1: apologizing to folks anyway? That's anyway anyway. Those are the circumstances. 555 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 1: We just thought that's an interesting story because it shows 556 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:50,280 Speaker 1: that there's not just one example of this. In fact, 557 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: there are multiple other examples. There's Letter the Doll in Australia, 558 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: there's Okiku in Japan. The list goes on and on. 559 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 1: So we have these caces of things that pre date Annabel, 560 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 1: the most famous haunted doll, by a bit. But the 561 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,719 Speaker 1: truth of the matter is that the story goes much 562 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: much deeper. You see, haunted dolls, or some version of them, 563 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 1: date back into antiquity. What are we talking about. We'll 564 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: tell you afterward from our sponsors. We're back and we're 565 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: going back in time. We're going far far earlier than 566 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: the turn of the twentie century. We're going far far 567 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:45,319 Speaker 1: past the creation of the US. We're looking at early civilization, 568 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:50,319 Speaker 1: the earliest predecessors of things like Annabelle and Robert. We're effigies. 569 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 1: There was something called poppets p O p p e 570 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: t s and folklore. These are dolls that are made 571 00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,359 Speaker 1: to represent a specific person for a specific reason. Uh, 572 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: and they were created by all sorts of early civilizations. Yeah, 573 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,879 Speaker 1: it wasn't there a thing about poppets in the Crucible 574 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: about that being sort of a witchy item, a puppet, 575 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: And if I'm not mistaken, it's something that you hear 576 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: kind of stylized, which is say, oh, my poppets, my 577 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,320 Speaker 1: little poppet, referring to children they're about to eat or something. 578 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 1: But yeah, no, I'm pretty sure that was definitely a 579 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,759 Speaker 1: cursed object or it was in our our item in 580 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: the Crucible that maybe was tied back to the bewitching 581 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: of of many of these children in them in the village. Yeah, yeah, 582 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: you're correct. There's a cousin to the poppet that we're 583 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: going to talk about. That's basically the thing that you 584 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,399 Speaker 1: probably have in your mind even while we're talking about them, 585 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: if you are not remembering the crucible stuff. But but 586 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,919 Speaker 1: these were made all over the place. We're talking rome 587 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: Um in Africa, West Africa and Egypt. These these puppets 588 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 1: were used or these specific types of effigies um and 589 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: a lot of times it wasn't necessarily for a bad thing. 590 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,440 Speaker 1: That's what's kind of cool about these. Sometimes it was 591 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 1: almost like us, like a sin eater, spirit eater kind 592 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 1: of thing, where the poppet could help somebody, like you 593 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 1: could remove a curse from somebody by using one of 594 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 1: these things. You could heal somebody perhaps by using one 595 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 1: of these things. And if it was made of, you know, 596 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: a specific human, specific person. But the other thing is, 597 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,319 Speaker 1: and this is where the kind of cousin to it 598 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 1: comes in. You could perhaps make one of a person 599 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,279 Speaker 1: and then curse the doll, and then it would imbue 600 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 1: that curse into the actual person that it represented, right, 601 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: break the legs, put nails into the eyes, things things 602 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 1: of that nature. That's correct. Versions of this practice continue 603 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,919 Speaker 1: in the modern day, it's not you know, as widespread 604 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: and the right you hear that or is it? Yeah, 605 00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,840 Speaker 1: this is the perfect weather to record this. So versions 606 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,560 Speaker 1: of it do continue, they're probably just not as widespread. Uh, 607 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 1: we do at this point we want to make an 608 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:11,960 Speaker 1: important statement about so called voodoo dolls, and that is 609 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: the cousin that I was referring to. Got it, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 610 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 1: You can find them in novelty stores. There's even a 611 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 1: couple of like instructible or wicki how articles about how 612 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 1: to make your own legit ones. Uh. The term voodoo 613 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: doll usually describes several different kinds of effigy creation and 614 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:37,080 Speaker 1: these different cultures across the world. But to be absolutely clear, 615 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 1: these kinds of things don't really have a prominent place 616 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 1: in Haitian voodoo or Louisiana voodoo, which are two distinct 617 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: yet related actual religions. So the a lot of the 618 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:57,279 Speaker 1: conflation of um, these sorts of effigies with the practices 619 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 1: of that we would term loosely voodoo, uh, come about 620 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,359 Speaker 1: from racism in the past. This this is more this 621 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:08,799 Speaker 1: was probably more common like the people practicing that kind 622 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,600 Speaker 1: of stuff in the crucible or being accused of doing so. 623 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,960 Speaker 1: They're being accused of having a lineage dating back to 624 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 1: European uh, pre Christian or pagan practices. It's it's just 625 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,879 Speaker 1: it's a very important distinction. Dolls are not the only 626 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: thing that has been alleged to be haunted. They steal 627 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: the spotlight today, but let's remember fiction is full of 628 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 1: things like haunted cars, a love of Stephen King's, haunted boxes, 629 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 1: haunted houses, haunted shoes, etcetera. It turns out there is 630 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 1: an entire cottage industry of haunted objects out there today. 631 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,839 Speaker 1: And thanks to the great work by a New York 632 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:54,400 Speaker 1: Times journalist, Alicia De Santis, uh, you can take a 633 00:40:54,600 --> 00:41:00,400 Speaker 1: closer look at this subculture that is selling haunted items 634 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:04,799 Speaker 1: on eBay, and they want to give you an opportunity 635 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 1: to buy one. Uh spoiler. Most of them are dolls, 636 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 1: but there's other stuff too there. I'll give you an 637 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:17,760 Speaker 1: example right here. I am looking at an active item 638 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 1: for sale right now. It is titled Haunted Active Dolls 639 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: Paranormal Spirit of Vanessa, and it is a It looks 640 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 1: like an American girl doll, maybe a little maybe even 641 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,880 Speaker 1: a little better made. I don't know the craftsmanship on 642 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: American Girl Dolls is very high. But this looks pretty incredible. 643 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:44,440 Speaker 1: The blue eyes are haunting. Here we go. Uh, I 644 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,799 Speaker 1: found one that I was I was reading earlier. Just 645 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:52,080 Speaker 1: I just felt the vibe of this gothic cursed item 646 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:57,840 Speaker 1: devil Satan, legia board, baffroom, that paranormal psychic tarot. That 647 00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 1: is a winning combination there, my friend on itemte watchers 648 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,240 Speaker 1: right now. Yeah, it's all one night. It's only fifty 649 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,719 Speaker 1: five bucks o bio or best offer. So for that 650 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,840 Speaker 1: in fourteen dollars shipping, you could get all those keywords 651 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: together today. That's like a cursed tur ducan is. Yeah, 652 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 1: that's say it cursed your ducket. Uh, dude, I just 653 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,759 Speaker 1: you guys, I'm looking at I don't know what this is. 654 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:34,759 Speaker 1: It's an authentic bo that's a that's a gremlin or 655 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,440 Speaker 1: goblin from the Jewish faith. I'm not mistaken. You are correct, 656 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: a malevolent spirit that can enter and possess the body 657 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:47,560 Speaker 1: of a living person unless they're exercise. And uh, there's 658 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,000 Speaker 1: an idea that has something in common with the myths 659 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:54,360 Speaker 1: about jen that they could be restrained in a specific 660 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:58,400 Speaker 1: type of container under the correct type of ritual. Well, 661 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 1: there are a lot of these for sale on eBay. 662 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,520 Speaker 1: Can you can you imagine like what it must be 663 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 1: like on like the dark web, that's where the real 664 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:12,240 Speaker 1: stuff is. Yeah, so you can you can go and 665 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:16,440 Speaker 1: see this stuff yourself right now. And if you peruse 666 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,400 Speaker 1: e Bay like Noel, Matt and I are doing, you'll 667 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: find everything from haunted jewelry too, haunted ups boxes for 668 00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 1: some reason, feathers, pieces of frankly ordinary looking wood. But 669 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:34,239 Speaker 1: the sentis has uh has something to note about this. 670 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,000 Speaker 1: I like the way she put it. She said that 671 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,799 Speaker 1: they might be said not to be haunted so much 672 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 1: as enchanted for specific reasons for luck, for fortune. Uh 673 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,000 Speaker 1: that you have to you have to have a positive environment, 674 00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,240 Speaker 1: you have to have a good attitude when you're handling 675 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,680 Speaker 1: this stuff, and that not all good luck applies the same. 676 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,880 Speaker 1: So there are notes in these things. Are these biddings 677 00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,920 Speaker 1: where they'll say things like this chip is for money 678 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,759 Speaker 1: luck only, not general good fortune or finding love, which 679 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:09,399 Speaker 1: are different spells. And one thing that I one thing 680 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,560 Speaker 1: I enjoyed was the disclaimers, because you know, when you 681 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 1: buy a lot of stuff online, you will see the 682 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,560 Speaker 1: fine print and the notices, Like someone will say Okay, hey, 683 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:24,280 Speaker 1: this is PS five or whatever, but it ships without 684 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,680 Speaker 1: the box. Or I've got this, um, I've got this 685 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:30,880 Speaker 1: g I Joe, but it doesn't have the little backpack. 686 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,000 Speaker 1: They are there are things like this on the paranormal listings, 687 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,680 Speaker 1: and they say stuff like, quote as required per Ebase 688 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,840 Speaker 1: policy on the sale of paranormal items. This is for 689 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,279 Speaker 1: the sale of the tangible item only, no promise of 690 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:54,400 Speaker 1: a spirit attached. Sorry, sorry, it's yeah, this is just 691 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:58,719 Speaker 1: the box to be cleared. Yeah. The the complaints can 692 00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:01,759 Speaker 1: give you a chuckle to because there are people who 693 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:05,240 Speaker 1: are you know, seem to be genuinely concerned that shipping 694 00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:09,680 Speaker 1: this item may disassociate it from the spirit or they 695 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:13,480 Speaker 1: feel like they ordered something believing it to be paranormal 696 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,319 Speaker 1: or inhabited by something and they're just not catching any 697 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,359 Speaker 1: any Jeff Goldblue Mask vibes off of it, so they 698 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,520 Speaker 1: think that it's um. Now, the typical there is a 699 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,760 Speaker 1: typical response to from the sellers. They say, it takes time. 700 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:28,600 Speaker 1: You have to spend time with it, you have to 701 00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:32,120 Speaker 1: be familiar with it so that feels comfortable enough, you know, 702 00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,560 Speaker 1: to speak with you. You know what we should do 703 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:38,800 Speaker 1: been we should build a panopticon and then in every 704 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:42,360 Speaker 1: cell put one of these haunted objects and lock it 705 00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,640 Speaker 1: in there, and then you know, just observe them with 706 00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,600 Speaker 1: cameras and other sensors for I don't know, twenty years 707 00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,040 Speaker 1: something like that. Yeah, I think we could. We could 708 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,200 Speaker 1: probably work a work something like that out in the 709 00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,600 Speaker 1: show budget. Uh, folks, me volunteers, let us know what 710 00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:02,160 Speaker 1: your favorite haunted objects are that could occupy our panopticon. 711 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:07,360 Speaker 1: Extra points for a big Mickey esque figure, yeah, or 712 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:11,480 Speaker 1: a like a fridge that you know survived an earthquake 713 00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,640 Speaker 1: or something, or a building collapse and then if you 714 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,840 Speaker 1: if you there is a person actively looking at it, 715 00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:24,520 Speaker 1: it does something. We're like, Uh, a telephone that's that 716 00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:30,480 Speaker 1: is detached but still speaks to forces beyond our dimension. Yeah, 717 00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,800 Speaker 1: that would be amazing. Or a microwave, just like a 718 00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:41,040 Speaker 1: badass crazy microwave. I don't know it just can't you know. 719 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,640 Speaker 1: It's like the Wolverine of the crew. I don't know. Um, 720 00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:46,919 Speaker 1: the brave little toaster was haunted, Ben, Do you think 721 00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:51,399 Speaker 1: he was somehow embodied by some sort of malevol a spear. 722 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I know he was brave and super cute, 723 00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:56,200 Speaker 1: but toasts aren't supposed to hop around like that and 724 00:46:56,239 --> 00:47:02,440 Speaker 1: go exploring, going on adventures. Even the Ghostbusters Toaster just 725 00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,960 Speaker 1: kind of jumped around a little. Yeah, I don't know, 726 00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,160 Speaker 1: I would be all four haunted kitchen appliances. As a 727 00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,760 Speaker 1: matter of fact, that's gonna kind of come into play, 728 00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:13,600 Speaker 1: because we have a twist for you at the end 729 00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:17,160 Speaker 1: of this, folks. But here we have it as it stands. 730 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:22,960 Speaker 1: Ancient folklore spiritual practices live on co modified to a 731 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,600 Speaker 1: degree due to the nature of the society in which 732 00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:29,359 Speaker 1: we live. Some people just doubtlessly enjoy the stories. I mean, 733 00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,840 Speaker 1: it's cool, you know, like, hey, I got this haunted 734 00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,200 Speaker 1: according on eBay, that's a true story of my part. 735 00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,640 Speaker 1: It was advertised as haunted, and I was like, the 736 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:44,640 Speaker 1: price is right. Uh if I haunted they meant some 737 00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,200 Speaker 1: of the reeds were broken, then yes, I guess it 738 00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:51,360 Speaker 1: is haunted. But but other people, you know, really enjoy 739 00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,080 Speaker 1: the mythology of these things. And then some people truly 740 00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:58,960 Speaker 1: do believe there's something inexplicable and supernatural a foot. We 741 00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,439 Speaker 1: can say there's psychology you behind it, definitely right, there's 742 00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:05,960 Speaker 1: this urgent need to anthropomorphize everything because it's our way 743 00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:12,200 Speaker 1: of explaining the familiarity or discomfort we feel around certain objects. 744 00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:16,920 Speaker 1: Like almost everybody has a lucky insert here, right, this 745 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,480 Speaker 1: is my lucky hat. These are these are my this 746 00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:24,240 Speaker 1: is my lucky shirt kind of thing, right, mostly underwear, 747 00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,439 Speaker 1: but yeah, mostly underwear. Yeah, this is these are my 748 00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:32,680 Speaker 1: These are my business under ruse. These are my going 749 00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:38,520 Speaker 1: out under ruse. These are my business Tommy John's of 750 00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:43,560 Speaker 1: two Flight of the Concords. Uh. It makes sense then, though, 751 00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,600 Speaker 1: doesn't it, Guys that dolls would be so prominent in 752 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,439 Speaker 1: this kind of folklore because they already looked just enough, 753 00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:56,000 Speaker 1: like for sure, I I wonder, I wonder if you 754 00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:01,600 Speaker 1: guys are doing this more recently actually anthropomorphy rising stuff 755 00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,120 Speaker 1: in your house or or any of you guys doing 756 00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:06,080 Speaker 1: that right now? I always have the one more ifies 757 00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,279 Speaker 1: the backs of trucks that they have faces on them. 758 00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:14,840 Speaker 1: Let's see, like, yeah, and cars are designed in the 759 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,000 Speaker 1: in the front end at least a look kind of 760 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:21,000 Speaker 1: like face. Like you could just have one big headlight 761 00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,560 Speaker 1: that goes across. You could have three, you could have 762 00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,239 Speaker 1: eight and have like a spider looking car, but no 763 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:30,400 Speaker 1: two and a grill, little mouth, little face as their 764 00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,759 Speaker 1: hurdles towards you at eight five plus miles an hour 765 00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:37,960 Speaker 1: and you have just enough time to go. Ah, I'm wondering. 766 00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:42,000 Speaker 1: I'm wondering all about the backs of truck backs of trucks. Yeah, 767 00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:46,759 Speaker 1: like a semi semi you sort of have like you know, 768 00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:48,920 Speaker 1: the seam going down the back of it is like 769 00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,840 Speaker 1: the bridge of the nose, and then like the little 770 00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,239 Speaker 1: guardrail is sort of the nose. And sometimes it's like 771 00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:56,360 Speaker 1: mud flaps are like the teeth kind of you know 772 00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,719 Speaker 1: what I mean. Okay, I see it. So are the 773 00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,839 Speaker 1: are the doors the loading doors for the trailer they 774 00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,280 Speaker 1: like big eyes or they more like the cheek area. 775 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,920 Speaker 1: It depends. It depends on where the lights are attached 776 00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,440 Speaker 1: and whether they're in the's any signage or anything that 777 00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,040 Speaker 1: adds to the illusion. But yeah, they certainly can be 778 00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,160 Speaker 1: ben they can be cheeks. Um. I'm having a hard 779 00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:19,360 Speaker 1: time explaining it. Something you just have to see for yourself. 780 00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:21,160 Speaker 1: But be on the lookout next time you're stuck behind 781 00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:24,319 Speaker 1: a semi. Just look for the face, LORI, for any 782 00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:28,719 Speaker 1: anyone LORI. Indeed. Uh. One of the last thing for 783 00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:30,799 Speaker 1: me is even those little hooks you used to hang 784 00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,839 Speaker 1: coats on. They look like drunken octopuses that are trying 785 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,160 Speaker 1: to put their dukes up to fight with you. M 786 00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,440 Speaker 1: I saw it. It's something they're reading about that they 787 00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:43,120 Speaker 1: can't unsee it. It's like, especially when they're screwed in 788 00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,920 Speaker 1: with two screws and they're offset a little bit, so 789 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:47,160 Speaker 1: it's like one of them is kind of like a 790 00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:50,440 Speaker 1: little bit little it's a drunk Yeah, yeah, it's trunk 791 00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:54,680 Speaker 1: ard octopus. But we all have things like this. There's 792 00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:57,759 Speaker 1: so many things that you have probably encountered in your 793 00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:00,800 Speaker 1: life where you thought that looks like a ace, that 794 00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,720 Speaker 1: looks like a figure, a humanoid figure, And that's because 795 00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:09,600 Speaker 1: your brain has been evolved to see those sorts of patterns. So, 796 00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:13,960 Speaker 1: like I'll admit, during this pandemic, as you said, Matt, 797 00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:17,400 Speaker 1: we all kind of because we were in a smaller 798 00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:22,120 Speaker 1: environment most of the time, we may have accelerated some 799 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:26,600 Speaker 1: of this anthropomorphization. About eight months in, you know, I 800 00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:30,120 Speaker 1: looked around. I realized all this in my kitchen has 801 00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:34,239 Speaker 1: a personality. Now there's the good bowl, the trustworthy one, 802 00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:38,560 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. There's there's there's the fork, 803 00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,839 Speaker 1: there's kind of bold, it has panash and then there's 804 00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:46,200 Speaker 1: that one spoon. You can't trust it. There's that one spoon. 805 00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:52,359 Speaker 1: It's the Judas spoon. And that's like, clearly, that's just psychology. 806 00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,000 Speaker 1: Maybe that's just the force of boredom and a bottle. 807 00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:59,360 Speaker 1: We're all just terribly damaged by all of this. But 808 00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,759 Speaker 1: it's okay. I think it's gonna stay with us. I 809 00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:05,560 Speaker 1: think no one is still going to be seeing truck faces. 810 00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,440 Speaker 1: I think all our listeners are gonna still see weird 811 00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,640 Speaker 1: things and like vacuums or trash can lids that open 812 00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:15,520 Speaker 1: up like mouths, and uh yeah, I don't trust that spoon, 813 00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:19,960 Speaker 1: and I know it knows what it did. So for now, 814 00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:23,800 Speaker 1: the answer to Canton object be haunted seems to be 815 00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:27,560 Speaker 1: primarily something like, yes, at least it can be haunted 816 00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:31,120 Speaker 1: by the human need to explain the inexplicable and to 817 00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:35,719 Speaker 1: create personalities as a way of defining our own self 818 00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:41,839 Speaker 1: perceived relationships with things. And yes, of course copy If 819 00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,759 Speaker 1: science achieves a breakthrough improves that non physical events can 820 00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:50,120 Speaker 1: indeed leave impact on physical objects, this changes everything. This 821 00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:53,920 Speaker 1: changes absolutely everything. We'll have to redo this episode until then. 822 00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:58,239 Speaker 1: Right now, as as much of a bummer as it is, 823 00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:02,480 Speaker 1: to say it. There is no proof, universally accepted proof 824 00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:06,600 Speaker 1: of genuinely haunted objects. But there is one last twist, 825 00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:11,560 Speaker 1: something we wanted to save until the end. In the 826 00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:17,680 Speaker 1: very near future, we may have haunted objects. Fellow conspiracy realists, 827 00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:23,719 Speaker 1: We may very well build our own ghost. Uh. Yes, 828 00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:27,880 Speaker 1: we may build ourselves into ghosts or build a ghost 829 00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:31,200 Speaker 1: out of some I think it will be some very 830 00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:34,200 Speaker 1: very smart person that we want to keep around to 831 00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:36,959 Speaker 1: be like, no, don't go. We we we need you still. 832 00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:40,319 Speaker 1: We need to know what we need to do next. Um, 833 00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:48,000 Speaker 1: so you know, Mark Zuckerberg or somebody anyway, But no, 834 00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:52,680 Speaker 1: it's it's so true because we've talked about this before. 835 00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:56,560 Speaker 1: In our attempts to achieve immortality in some way or another, 836 00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:02,640 Speaker 1: we are using computer simulations, attempts at computer simulation and 837 00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:06,759 Speaker 1: very very very fast computers with tons of memory to 838 00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:11,520 Speaker 1: be able to simulate a person or a consciousness. And 839 00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,560 Speaker 1: we've we've been attempting to do this and we may 840 00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:19,640 Speaker 1: perfect it. Yeah, which is terrifying. Should be terrified. If 841 00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:24,080 Speaker 1: you're if you're more excited than you than terrified, then congratulations. 842 00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:25,799 Speaker 1: Kind of like me and we both have a lot 843 00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:28,560 Speaker 1: of stuff we should work on. In that case, Yeah, Matt, 844 00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,759 Speaker 1: you're on the money. The first truly haunted object on 845 00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:36,200 Speaker 1: the way is probably not a dusty stuffed animal. It's 846 00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:39,879 Speaker 1: probably not some cursed spear from an ancient war. Will 847 00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:43,400 Speaker 1: instead be the result of something called whole brain emulation 848 00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:48,440 Speaker 1: or w b E, the idea of uploading the entirety 849 00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:53,360 Speaker 1: of human brain, modeling it thoughts, memories, feelings, personalities, putting 850 00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:55,480 Speaker 1: it on a hard drive, putting it in the cloud. 851 00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:03,000 Speaker 1: This is a possibility. There are now like conceptually we 852 00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:07,600 Speaker 1: can understand, we we can understand how it would be done. 853 00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:11,000 Speaker 1: We can see the horizon where this occurs. We have 854 00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:13,560 Speaker 1: a lot of technological hurdles there, we have a lot 855 00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:17,239 Speaker 1: of ethical hurdles that we haven't considered yet. The main, 856 00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:22,239 Speaker 1: the main obstacle right now, ship of thesis aside, is 857 00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:27,520 Speaker 1: that first we have to manage to achieve something called 858 00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:32,719 Speaker 1: the connect dome, just like connect O m E. A 859 00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:37,120 Speaker 1: complete map of the human brain. Uh. We have been 860 00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:40,960 Speaker 1: able to do one complete map of one creature. It's 861 00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:44,440 Speaker 1: a nematode, so we know it can be done in theory. 862 00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,600 Speaker 1: But a nematode has about three neurads. Human brain has 863 00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:51,560 Speaker 1: about eight six billion, so we can't. We don't know 864 00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:53,520 Speaker 1: how to map. We just need a couple of thousand 865 00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:56,000 Speaker 1: more years and we'll be there. We'll be good. Well, 866 00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:58,799 Speaker 1: we'd also want to map a living human brain, right 867 00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:06,240 Speaker 1: ethics socide. Would it be easier to map a living 868 00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:10,560 Speaker 1: human brain if you didn't have to worry about what 869 00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:15,120 Speaker 1: happened to that brain? Yeah, I know it gets sticky 870 00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:17,680 Speaker 1: really quickly. And I was gonna say, I'm wondering if 871 00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:21,600 Speaker 1: there's some kind of because obviously it's our inability to 872 00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:25,440 Speaker 1: see into the brain, deep into the brain enough with 873 00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:28,640 Speaker 1: enough resolution to be able to pick out those, you know, 874 00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:33,200 Speaker 1: each neural pathway, because then you could definitely get a 875 00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:36,600 Speaker 1: pretty cool image of brains just by scanning them. But 876 00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:40,040 Speaker 1: it's not the same thing as looking at, like you said, 877 00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:43,719 Speaker 1: all of the neurons, right, and we uh, you know, 878 00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:46,200 Speaker 1: the tools we have, things like m R I and 879 00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:49,320 Speaker 1: so on. It's exactly as you described. There's just not 880 00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:54,360 Speaker 1: the level of sophistication we need here. But if someone 881 00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:58,759 Speaker 1: can map a brain and all its interconnections, the next 882 00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:01,279 Speaker 1: step would be trying to make an emulation of it 883 00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:04,520 Speaker 1: that could run, you know, run the copy of Paul 884 00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:09,279 Speaker 1: Mission Control decond creating something that will call a substrate 885 00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:13,600 Speaker 1: independent mind, or to be cut about it, a sim 886 00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:18,160 Speaker 1: this sim could exist, then it would inherently be conscious, 887 00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:21,480 Speaker 1: even if we don't understand what consciousness is for us. 888 00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:26,120 Speaker 1: It would be literally a ghost in the machine. For now, 889 00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:30,040 Speaker 1: this is hypothetical. For now, this is hypothetical, but the 890 00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:33,360 Speaker 1: technology and the research are continuing at a breakneck pace. 891 00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:38,120 Speaker 1: I think it's very optimistic that that you say, the 892 00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:42,440 Speaker 1: first immortal, the first ghost, first thing to haunt an 893 00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,400 Speaker 1: object like this, might be one of the world's smartest people. 894 00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:48,520 Speaker 1: I intended to say, I think it would be one 895 00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:52,680 Speaker 1: of the world's wealthiest people who was terrified of dying. 896 00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,640 Speaker 1: What do you guys think about that? I think my 897 00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:59,760 Speaker 1: example would hold true for probably both of those. Yeah, yeah, 898 00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:04,400 Speaker 1: did nail it on that one. Then that's exactly I 899 00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:06,600 Speaker 1: can't remember which season of West World it is, but 900 00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:10,360 Speaker 1: that's exactly one of the main plot points in one 901 00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:15,160 Speaker 1: of the HBO's West World seasons where it's essentially ghosts 902 00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:20,120 Speaker 1: in the machine. It's it's physical, well, it's programs that 903 00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:24,439 Speaker 1: are software built into hardware that then the software gets 904 00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:28,560 Speaker 1: transferred as a ghost into a server where now they 905 00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:33,520 Speaker 1: only exists exist virtually, but it's the full consciousness of 906 00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:39,400 Speaker 1: that of those at one point physical beings. Wow, that's interesting, 907 00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:46,400 Speaker 1: like San Junipero. Right, Uh, this there, there's a reason 908 00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:50,560 Speaker 1: that fiction centers on this kind of stuff and orbits, 909 00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:54,080 Speaker 1: these sort of concepts, you know, science fiction in particulars. 910 00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:58,040 Speaker 1: The genre is often prescient and in one way or another. 911 00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:04,480 Speaker 1: So don't be surprised if, uh, within your lifetimes, humanity 912 00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:07,920 Speaker 1: finally has the haunted dolls it has loved and feared 913 00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:11,560 Speaker 1: since the dawn of recorded time. They may just end 914 00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:15,600 Speaker 1: up being computers. At one of those ghosts one day 915 00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,040 Speaker 1: might be you. So what do you think, folks, have 916 00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:23,520 Speaker 1: you had any experience with mysterious or cursed objects? Let 917 00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:27,680 Speaker 1: us know where what objects appeared at, personalities and faces 918 00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:30,640 Speaker 1: for you, that's that's a very interesting question to write. 919 00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:32,920 Speaker 1: Oh and if you if you have those things, like, 920 00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,480 Speaker 1: I want to see pictures of the thing from your 921 00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:40,240 Speaker 1: point of view, I definitely want to see that. I'll 922 00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:42,920 Speaker 1: take a picture of the container that holds all my 923 00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:45,160 Speaker 1: dog food that has a giant flap on it, and 924 00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:48,920 Speaker 1: it's exactly how you described it, Ben. It totally talks 925 00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:52,080 Speaker 1: and yeah, it's it's pretty amazing. Does it have its 926 00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:56,240 Speaker 1: own favorite dog food? Oh? Yeah, it gets so upset 927 00:59:56,320 --> 00:59:58,800 Speaker 1: if I give it the grain free stuff because it's like, 928 00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:02,720 Speaker 1: you know, this is bad for these dogs, and I'm like, god, man, 929 01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:07,080 Speaker 1: it's talking trash to you. It's like, oh, oh, Frederick 930 01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:10,280 Speaker 1: came to play today. Well guess what, buddy, no games. 931 01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,680 Speaker 1: I thought green free dog food was good for my dogs. 932 01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:16,480 Speaker 1: I thought that's how it worked, but apparently it's not. 933 01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:20,080 Speaker 1: So sorry, and send us, yes, send us your favorite 934 01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:23,400 Speaker 1: pictures of things that appear to have faces. Bonus points 935 01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:28,800 Speaker 1: if they are trucks, automobiles, uh, send us to your 936 01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:32,400 Speaker 1: classics and let us let us know seriously what you 937 01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:34,440 Speaker 1: think about what we've touched on here. And if you 938 01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:38,000 Speaker 1: believe that you have found a genuinely haunted object or 939 01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:40,040 Speaker 1: you have witnessed one, of course we want to hear 940 01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,160 Speaker 1: about it. We try to make it easy to find 941 01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:44,040 Speaker 1: us online. That's where you can find us on Facebook, 942 01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:47,160 Speaker 1: On Twitter, where were conspiracy stuff or conspiracy Stuff show? 943 01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:50,280 Speaker 1: On Instagram, you can also join our Facebook group Here's 944 01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:53,480 Speaker 1: where it Gets Crazy. Just navigate over to Facebook, type 945 01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:55,320 Speaker 1: in Here's where it gets Crazy and answer a couple 946 01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:57,840 Speaker 1: of super basic questions and any listener the show should 947 01:00:57,840 --> 01:00:59,760 Speaker 1: be able to answer and you're in lots of fun, 948 01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:02,480 Speaker 1: memory and discussion to be had. And hey, while you're 949 01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:04,360 Speaker 1: on the internet, why don't you cover to Apple podcast 950 01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:06,840 Speaker 1: and write us a review for the show that really 951 01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:09,360 Speaker 1: helps people discover the show and helps us get ranked 952 01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:12,520 Speaker 1: on that old Apple podcast chart. That's right. Also, don't 953 01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:16,480 Speaker 1: forget to go to YouTube dot com slash conspiracy stuff. 954 01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:20,200 Speaker 1: That's where you can see videos of these conversations and episodes, 955 01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:23,120 Speaker 1: and you can also subscribe. Tell your friends, make sure 956 01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:25,880 Speaker 1: you click the buttons that alert you when new episodes 957 01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:27,960 Speaker 1: come out. I don't know which ones those are, but 958 01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:29,640 Speaker 1: you'll figure it out. If you don't want to do 959 01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:32,320 Speaker 1: that stuff, you can always give us a call. That's correct. 960 01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:36,040 Speaker 1: If you feel like you have more of an oral storyteller, 961 01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:38,200 Speaker 1: then why not dial u up at one eight three 962 01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:41,720 Speaker 1: three std w y t K. You have three minutes. 963 01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:44,800 Speaker 1: Those three minutes are yours. Tell us who you are, 964 01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:47,520 Speaker 1: tell us what you want us to call you, and 965 01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:50,880 Speaker 1: if it's okay to do so on air, let us 966 01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:53,880 Speaker 1: know what's on your mind. And if you have a 967 01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:57,320 Speaker 1: message that you would prefer to just keep between us 968 01:01:57,520 --> 01:01:59,440 Speaker 1: and the stuff that want you new a team and 969 01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:02,880 Speaker 1: let us know at the end. Most importantly, don't censor yourself. 970 01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:07,160 Speaker 1: If you have something that deserves more than three minutes, 971 01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:10,320 Speaker 1: then by all means, please write out the full account. 972 01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:13,320 Speaker 1: We read every email we get. We're grateful for all 973 01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:16,760 Speaker 1: of them. You can send us yourself a good old 974 01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:20,360 Speaker 1: fashioned email where we are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. 975 01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:41,320 Speaker 1: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production 976 01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,439 Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 977 01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:47,400 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 978 01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:48,840 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.