WEBVTT - 120223  62 Year Old Black Deacon Tased to Death by Black Officer (Part 2)

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<v Speaker 1>Keep riding with us as we continue to broadcast the

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<v Speaker 1>balance and defend the discourse from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios.

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<v Speaker 1>This is civic side for Iron, your host Rams's job.

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<v Speaker 1>Big shout out to my man c Ward who is

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<v Speaker 1>out of town for this taping, but have no fear,

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<v Speaker 1>Doctor Camilla Westenberg is here to hold down the co

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<v Speaker 1>captain chair for the evening, afternoon morning. Whatever time day

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<v Speaker 1>you are consuming this media, be sure to stick around

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<v Speaker 1>because we have a lot more in store for you.

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<v Speaker 1>We are going to be discussing a one Johnny Hallman

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<v Speaker 1>who lost his life at the hands of police in

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<v Speaker 1>a very violent and unnecessary way, and we need to

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<v Speaker 1>give you some insight into this particular incident because this

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<v Speaker 1>is not white cop, black suspect. This is a black

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<v Speaker 1>officer and there are some implications there we need to discuss.

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<v Speaker 1>But before we get there, let's discuss Baba becoming a

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<v Speaker 1>better ally Baba. Today's Baba is sponsored by Friends of

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<v Speaker 1>the Movement. You can sign up for the free voter

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<v Speaker 1>wallet from fotmglobal dot com to support black businesses and

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<v Speaker 1>allied businesses as well as make an impact with your spending. Again,

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<v Speaker 1>that is Fotmglobal dot com so today reading that Megan

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<v Speaker 1>Butten's family was considering moving if their Pennsylvania school district

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<v Speaker 1>didn't change courses from NPR. By the way, she normally

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<v Speaker 1>isn't politically active, she said, but felt compelled to volunteer

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<v Speaker 1>when a slate of Democrats launched bids to take back

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<v Speaker 1>their school board in Central Bucks school district, just north

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<v Speaker 1>of Philadelphia. Central Bucks is well known both statewide and

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<v Speaker 1>nationally for heated board meetings over masks and pride flags,

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<v Speaker 1>policies manning certain books, and directives to not use students

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<v Speaker 1>preferred names and pronouns. Accusations of discrimination against LGBTQ students

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<v Speaker 1>have also led to an ongoing investigation by the US

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<v Speaker 1>Department of Education. Quote. I couldn't have my kids in

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<v Speaker 1>a school district where these kinds of things were happening,

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<v Speaker 1>Buddon said. Standing in the Bucks County Democratic headquarters on

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<v Speaker 1>election night, Button saab when the results rolled in Democrats

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<v Speaker 1>took all five seats up for election, the room erupted

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<v Speaker 1>in cheers, Friends, neighbors, and strangers hugged. Quote. It was

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<v Speaker 1>very moving and very joyous feeling from everyone. Button recalled

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<v Speaker 1>in a sense of relief, if there was a question

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<v Speaker 1>about whether the conservative led school boards policies reflected the

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<v Speaker 1>will of the local community, Tuesday's election may have provided

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<v Speaker 1>an answer. And so you know, we often ask for

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<v Speaker 1>you to use these examples to model your life after

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<v Speaker 1>or to take action if there was a fund rating

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<v Speaker 1>initiative or any fund raising initiative or anything like that.

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<v Speaker 1>And the highest good I believe that any of us

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<v Speaker 1>can do is whole elected office. And of course Meghan

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<v Speaker 1>Button is an example of that, So shout out to her. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>So next topic, how are you feeling good? Okay, I'm good.

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<v Speaker 1>I appreciate your getting here.

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<v Speaker 2>Where was Bucks School in Where was it located? Again?

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<v Speaker 1>That was Central Books in Philadelphia?

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<v Speaker 2>Really okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm gonna tell you a little bit about a

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<v Speaker 1>video that we are going to play a little bit later.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna read a little bit, but I want you

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<v Speaker 1>to be be caught up to speed. Yeah, what we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to witness is I'm going to play the audio.

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<v Speaker 1>But the audio by itself is not very clear because

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<v Speaker 1>the speaking voice and the cadence and the accent of

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<v Speaker 1>mister Johnny Hallman, who is now deceased, is not He

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<v Speaker 1>does not speak with what we in the radio industry

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<v Speaker 1>called non regional viction. It's a very thick Southern accent,

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<v Speaker 1>and he speaks very quickly, so you might not be

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<v Speaker 1>able to make out what he's saying, but hopefully you'd

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<v Speaker 1>be able to feel his energy when we get there.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to share a bit. This comes from NBC News.

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<v Speaker 1>The daughter of Johnny Hallman said she became physically ill

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<v Speaker 1>watching body camera footage of the sixty two year old

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<v Speaker 1>church deacon screaming out for help and repeatedly saying he

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<v Speaker 1>cannot breathe during a fatal encounter with an Atlanta police officer.

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<v Speaker 1>Halman died on August tenth after former officer Kevin sorry

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<v Speaker 1>Kieran Kimberrel used a stun gun on him and then

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<v Speaker 1>handcuffed him following a minor traffic incident. Died after a

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<v Speaker 1>minor traffic incident. And when we talk about police over

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, this is a show that's very critical

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<v Speaker 1>of the way that policing as an institution is done.

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<v Speaker 1>I know individual officers, police officers kind people, good people,

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<v Speaker 1>well intentioned, well meaning people who are part of a

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<v Speaker 1>system that desperately needs reform. Okay, I want to make

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<v Speaker 1>sure that I say that. Okay. So yeah, Kimber was

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<v Speaker 1>fired by the Atlanta Police Department because he did not

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<v Speaker 1>follow standard operating procedures, police said Tuesday.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Arntra Fallen's, her family, and their attorney met with the

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<v Speaker 1>city last month to view footage of the incident. Again,

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<v Speaker 1>this is the daughter of the deceased Johnny Hallman quote.

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<v Speaker 1>It was very heartbreaking, Follen said Wednesday. Her father had

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<v Speaker 1>called her during the encounter. I'm not going to play

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<v Speaker 1>the whole video, but there is a moment when he's

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<v Speaker 1>trying to make a phone call. I think there was

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of moments actually, but toward the end, the

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<v Speaker 1>officers says, sign this ticket, and he's still he's older man.

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<v Speaker 1>He's trying to work his phone, and the officer becomes impatient.

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<v Speaker 1>Mister Hallman says, I'm going to sign the ticket, and

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<v Speaker 1>the officer by then is very frustrated and starts to

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<v Speaker 1>grab him to place him under arrest, and he says, wait,

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<v Speaker 1>I said I'd sign the ticket, you know, And then

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<v Speaker 1>by then the officer has escalated and obviously he lost

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<v Speaker 1>his life. Okay, but he did call his daughter during

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<v Speaker 1>the encounter. So you won't be able to see that

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<v Speaker 1>if you're listening to this on the audio. Relatives said

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<v Speaker 1>that Hallman was driving home from Bible study wow at

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<v Speaker 1>a daughter's house and taking dinner to his wife when

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<v Speaker 1>he was involved in a car accident. He called police

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<v Speaker 1>to the scene, the family said. The Atlanta Police Department

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<v Speaker 1>said in its initial statement that Hallman became quote agitated

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<v Speaker 1>and uncooperative when the officer found him to be the

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<v Speaker 1>at fault driver and issued him a citation. Authorities said

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<v Speaker 1>he quote resisted as the officer attempted to take him

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<v Speaker 1>into custody, and a struggle ensued. After several minutes of struggling,

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<v Speaker 1>the officer used his stun gun and in place Hallman

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<v Speaker 1>in handcuffs. According to the police, it was then that

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<v Speaker 1>the officer realized that Hallmand was unresponsive and requested at ems.

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<v Speaker 1>So again, I want you to know that the officer

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<v Speaker 1>and this was black, and of course Johnny Hallman was

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<v Speaker 1>black as well, so we're not Sometimes we get a

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<v Speaker 1>chance to illustrate how the system is and there's a

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<v Speaker 1>component of racism often in the system and in the

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<v Speaker 1>officer as well. But even without that component of racism,

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<v Speaker 1>a system will still compel you to engage in racist behaviors,

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<v Speaker 1>to mistreat people. Remember once, once upon a time, slavery

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<v Speaker 1>was legal in this country, and freed black people could

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<v Speaker 1>own slaves too, and they did because that was the

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<v Speaker 1>economic model. So what we're going to look at is

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<v Speaker 1>something that is not dissimilar to that a black officer

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<v Speaker 1>engaged in what we we believe to be a white

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<v Speaker 1>supremacist institution. I believe that it's more than a belief,

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<v Speaker 1>that is an objective fact. It was founded as slave patrol,

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<v Speaker 1>so it is everyday life, right. So let's get to

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<v Speaker 1>this video and then we will talk about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>And I feel compelled to mention that this comes from

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<v Speaker 1>the Daily Mail. It has been sort of edited a bit,

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<v Speaker 1>so you'll hear music and things like that. That's not

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<v Speaker 1>my doing. But for the most part of all the videos,

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<v Speaker 1>this one it seems to be the most intact and

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<v Speaker 1>appropriate for today's Today's show. So here we go.

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<v Speaker 3>All right, I did find you a fault.

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<v Speaker 4>This started off as a simple conversation which ended up

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<v Speaker 4>with tragic consequences.

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<v Speaker 3>My life with Green. You cut your term short.

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<v Speaker 1>No, No, I've done him.

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<v Speaker 3>What you kept telling me at me it was my poe.

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<v Speaker 2>Why are you at me?

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<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna sna tell you it was not my fuck.

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<v Speaker 4>He's praying into my trunk. You ain't right right here.

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<v Speaker 4>Sixty two year old church deacon Johnny Hallman got into

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<v Speaker 4>an altercation with a police officer in Atlanta after a

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<v Speaker 4>vehicle went into his pickup truck.

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<v Speaker 3>I told you once, bore your voice. You're not you

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<v Speaker 3>understand what I'm telling you. Now, you're gonna sign this

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<v Speaker 3>ticket and I'm gonna take you to jail. I suggested

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<v Speaker 3>you signed the ticket, then you could talk to my

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<v Speaker 3>sergeant or whoever you want to talk to, your frieze,

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<v Speaker 3>your wife. I don't care, but you're gonna sign it

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<v Speaker 3>right here.

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<v Speaker 2>Here you go.

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<v Speaker 4>When Harman refuses to sign a citation, the situation quickly escalates.

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<v Speaker 3>So I'm gonna ask you one more time.

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<v Speaker 4>Sign the ticket.

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<v Speaker 3>Sign the ticket, Sign the ticket from I'm not I'm.

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<v Speaker 1>Can crazy, I'm all right, all right. I know you

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<v Speaker 1>can't see what's going on, but basically, he's telling the

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<v Speaker 1>officer that he needs to know whether or not signing

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<v Speaker 1>this is an admission of guilt. The officer seems to

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<v Speaker 1>be frustrated. We can't see the officer, of course, and

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<v Speaker 1>then uh, there's they're now struggling. He's saying that he's

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<v Speaker 1>hurting the officers, hurting his arm. That's what we're witnessing

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<v Speaker 1>right now.

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<v Speaker 4>Sadly, Hallman was pronounced dead at the hospital after the incident,

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<v Speaker 4>which took place on August tenth.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so let's discuss. So one of the things that

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<v Speaker 1>you may not have heard from the audio is him saying,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to sign the ticket.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Another thing that he said was I'm an old man,

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<v Speaker 1>and I believe that he said that in a way

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<v Speaker 1>to kind of de escalate the situation. In other words,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean you no harm. Another thing that he said. Again,

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<v Speaker 1>I have captions here, so I can read what he's

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<v Speaker 1>saying in the studio, but if you're just listening to

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<v Speaker 1>the audio, you may not know. Part of the reason

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<v Speaker 1>why he was hesitating when it came to signing the

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<v Speaker 1>ticket is because he was worried that it might be

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<v Speaker 1>an admission of guilt and it obviously felt like he

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't at fault, and the officer did not respond to

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<v Speaker 1>that inquiry. In other words, a lot of times you

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<v Speaker 1>might receive a ticket and an officer will say, this

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<v Speaker 1>is not an admission of guilt or innocence. This is

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<v Speaker 1>simply a signing to say that you've received the ticket.

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<v Speaker 1>You can plead whether or not you're a guilty or

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<v Speaker 1>innocent at court. And so he was asking that question

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<v Speaker 1>when the officer started to grab him. He was saying,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm an old man, I'm hurting it, I can't breathe,

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<v Speaker 1>all these things. Of course, he died there on the sidewalk.

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<v Speaker 1>So I wanted to bring you up to speed. Of course,

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<v Speaker 1>I'd like for you to jump in here your thoughts,

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<v Speaker 1>Doctor Westenberg.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, actually, I go back to the very beginning, to

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<v Speaker 2>the reporting of the incident and the newscaster, if I

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<v Speaker 2>heard it correctly, it says that Johnny Holdemann got into

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<v Speaker 2>an altercation with the police officer. Now, or perhaps the

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<v Speaker 2>police officer got into an altercation with him.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what it seems like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So I say, first, it's for me somewhat tainted

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<v Speaker 2>because a decision has been made by the presentation of

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<v Speaker 2>the story by the media to that audience. The other

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<v Speaker 2>thing that I found really interesting is that I heard

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<v Speaker 2>no inquiry about where you're coming from.

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<v Speaker 1>What are you doing.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's get this into perspective. What's the big picture? And

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<v Speaker 2>he said, he hit me. And I didn't see any

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<v Speaker 2>in that where attention was given to let's look at this.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if he pointed to the back of

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<v Speaker 2>his car or to the side of his car. I

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<v Speaker 2>did not hear any verbiage that said anything about where

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<v Speaker 2>that hitting, where the contact took place. Okay, well, and

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<v Speaker 2>he did not give attention to what he said. He said,

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<v Speaker 2>he hit me, so let's look at that situation, and

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<v Speaker 2>where is the other let's walk over. I don't see

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<v Speaker 2>any investigation of what actually occurred. And then he called

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<v Speaker 2>his audience reasonable that someone would want to let a

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<v Speaker 2>family member know what's taking place. That's that's just simply

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<v Speaker 2>not unusual. And he said it was going to sign it.

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<v Speaker 2>He said, I'm going to sign it. Give him a moment,

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<v Speaker 2>just you are first, Evidently an incident has occurred between

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<v Speaker 2>two cars that within itself was a little unst I

0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:06.080
<v Speaker 2>should have been on both parts recognize that. Okay, you

0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:12.080
<v Speaker 2>have to give a person time to settle down, come

0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:15.440
<v Speaker 2>to grips with it, and not rush them through the process.

0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:20.440
<v Speaker 2>This gentleman may not have ever been in a situation

0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:27.840
<v Speaker 2>before with police. So look, he's a deacon, he was

0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:33.200
<v Speaker 2>he had been to Bible study. Okay, you know, did

0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:36.080
<v Speaker 2>the policeman where are you're coming from? Where have you been?

0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:36.840
<v Speaker 1>You know?

0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:41.480
<v Speaker 2>He just went bam right into the situation and started yeah,

0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:46.080
<v Speaker 2>and and and here you have this person with a

0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:49.160
<v Speaker 2>personality and a persona, and he knows who he is

0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.120
<v Speaker 2>as an individual, and the policeman does not take any

0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:57.000
<v Speaker 2>time in the dialogue to deal with that, or even

0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:04.800
<v Speaker 2>when he said he hit me, to investigate that, you

0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.520
<v Speaker 2>know what you were just talking about, explaining that it

0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.320
<v Speaker 2>doesn't it doesn't indicate guilt or not to have said

0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:14.520
<v Speaker 2>that would have been delightful to show him, to have

0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:18.160
<v Speaker 2>shared that with him. Sir, I just want to let

0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:21.800
<v Speaker 2>you know that this is just a process that we

0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:28.240
<v Speaker 2>have to go through, Okay, but instead you're going and

0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:32.040
<v Speaker 2>a stun gun That simply just does not make sense.

0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:35.200
<v Speaker 1>You know, there's something else here When we're looking at

0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:40.280
<v Speaker 1>this story, and indeed the story from the first part

0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:48.720
<v Speaker 1>of the show, what we have are traumatic events that officers,

0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:53.520
<v Speaker 1>if they're not trained to deal with them, they certainly

0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:57.280
<v Speaker 1>there's a there's a prevalence of them because they are

0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:01.680
<v Speaker 1>the ones that are responding to traumatic event, so would

0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:04.439
<v Speaker 1>reasonably assume that they could deal with trauma better than

0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:09.359
<v Speaker 1>the average person. Tense tense moments, I'll say in the

0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.600
<v Speaker 1>first example from the first part of the show, where

0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.840
<v Speaker 1>the woman was handcuff naked on her her in her

0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:17.879
<v Speaker 1>living room as a result of a no knock warrant

0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:25.000
<v Speaker 1>who lived alone, older black woman, she kept begging to

0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:30.760
<v Speaker 1>call somebody since I feel uncomfortable, And of course then

0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:38.119
<v Speaker 1>we see mister Johnny Hallman pull out his phone to

0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:43.240
<v Speaker 1>make a call as well. And my guess is that

0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:45.760
<v Speaker 1>if I was in a similar situation, I would want

0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:48.520
<v Speaker 1>someone to know too. I'm sure that that sentiment is

0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:56.320
<v Speaker 1>shares particularly among black people, because situations can get very

0:17:56.440 --> 0:18:02.000
<v Speaker 1>dangerous very quickly. Tense situations, i would argue, are more

0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:06.879
<v Speaker 1>tense if you are black with respect to police interactions. Right,

0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:13.560
<v Speaker 1>And so, what we see when we talk about systemic elements,

0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:20.280
<v Speaker 1>systemic oppression, systemic entities in our society. Systems have a

0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:23.680
<v Speaker 1>tendency to treat things like one size fits all. No

0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:27.640
<v Speaker 1>knock warrants get the bad guys completely ignoring the fact

0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:29.720
<v Speaker 1>that we're gonna kill a ton of people that have

0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:31.320
<v Speaker 1>nothing to do with their names out on the warran.

0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:32.840
<v Speaker 1>They don't have anything to do with it. We're gonna

0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:36.439
<v Speaker 1>make mistakes or whatever. The collateral damage is just collateral damage.

0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:43.639
<v Speaker 1>And because officers are often empowered by communities that do

0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:49.639
<v Speaker 1>not feel that additional tension, they're they're blindly supported the

0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:53.440
<v Speaker 1>blue flag, that flag, that abomination of the American flag

0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:55.200
<v Speaker 1>where it's black and white and then there's a blue strip.

0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:58.879
<v Speaker 1>There are people out there that just thinks that police

0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.520
<v Speaker 1>can do no wrong. And you know, we talk about

0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:05.040
<v Speaker 1>it on social media time and again that systems and

0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:10.720
<v Speaker 1>indeed individual actors create trauma that ripples through the black community.

0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:11.920
<v Speaker 1>I feel like you want to jump in police.

0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:14.840
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, I would just say it's human Well,

0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:17.440
<v Speaker 2>I won't say it's human nature, but it often occurs

0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:27.480
<v Speaker 2>that whenever a person it's fortunate enough to have a

0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:36.040
<v Speaker 2>superior role over other individuals oftentimes goes to the head.

0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:43.280
<v Speaker 2>This is outside of being in the policeman are in

0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:49.000
<v Speaker 2>that field and that particular area is that the hierarchy

0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:55.080
<v Speaker 2>of it. I mean, whether it's on the job, wherever

0:19:55.160 --> 0:20:03.280
<v Speaker 2>you might be, if someone an organization, a committee, in

0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:09.560
<v Speaker 2>any of those instances where you are over sometimes you

0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:14.960
<v Speaker 2>have the capacity to assume that role in an exaggerated fashion.

0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:16.240
<v Speaker 1>Sure, exactly, that's it.

0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:21.879
<v Speaker 2>Well, a police officer, that is the ultimate. You are

0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:28.480
<v Speaker 2>given the car, the lights to stop you, and everything right,

0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:35.920
<v Speaker 2>and that's something that has to be realized, which means

0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:41.280
<v Speaker 2>means that a concerted effort should be made. I mean,

0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:43.360
<v Speaker 2>just think you're driving down the road and you see

0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:47.880
<v Speaker 2>a light coming behind you. The heart starts pounding, start

0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:50.800
<v Speaker 2>looking doing everything? Am I doing everything right?

0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:51.040
<v Speaker 4>You know?

0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:52.720
<v Speaker 1>What have I done?

0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:56.240
<v Speaker 2>And it passes you.

0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:59.920
<v Speaker 1>And go and you go yeah. And I want for

0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:02.520
<v Speaker 1>our listeners real quick, I want to say for our listeners,

0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:08.200
<v Speaker 1>I know that everybody experiences this, but again, imagine how

0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:12.879
<v Speaker 1>much more intense that feels when you're black. Again, briefly,

0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:18.879
<v Speaker 1>before we close, I want to share this. I come

0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:22.640
<v Speaker 1>from Compton, California. My first years were in a place

0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:24.720
<v Speaker 1>in the eighties, of course, where there was drugs and

0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:27.359
<v Speaker 1>all kind of stuff, right, a very scary place. The

0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:30.720
<v Speaker 1>scariest of all was the police. The scariest of all,

0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:35.000
<v Speaker 1>and that has been trap. I've seen police hurt people

0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:38.639
<v Speaker 1>like unnecessarily so remember of people were talking about how

0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:41.320
<v Speaker 1>bad the lapd were that's a real thing. I saw

0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:44.119
<v Speaker 1>it had with these eyes as a child, and so

0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:49.600
<v Speaker 1>that trauma, that fear of police and the police being

0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:53.080
<v Speaker 1>empowered to do whatever they want without having to deal

0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:57.359
<v Speaker 1>with that kind of contributes to this weird predicament that

0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:00.480
<v Speaker 1>we find ourselves in. But let's leave it right there.

0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:05.200
<v Speaker 1>As always, we never have enough time with this show,

0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:10.920
<v Speaker 1>but please do us a favor. Check our social media

0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.880
<v Speaker 1>at Civic Cipher. What you'll find is both of these

0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:17.720
<v Speaker 1>videos so you can see for yourself. Cib I c

0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:21.080
<v Speaker 1>c I P H E R. I of course would

0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:23.760
<v Speaker 1>like to thank you doctor Westernberg for coming, as always.

0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:25.160
<v Speaker 2>In It's a wonderful, wonderful show.

0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:29.480
<v Speaker 1>Sure, sure, and I appreciate you having these conversations with

0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:31.840
<v Speaker 1>me and having these conversations with me since I was

0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:35.040
<v Speaker 1>nineteen years old in college.

0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:36.960
<v Speaker 3>I am.

0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:42.479
<v Speaker 1>Glad to have been raised by you in this tradition.

0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:46.160
<v Speaker 1>Do us a favor. Please hit the website Civiccipher dot

0:22:46.240 --> 0:22:50.560
<v Speaker 1>com download this in any previous episodes. Again, as I mentioned,

0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:52.399
<v Speaker 1>follow us on social media. You can hit me at

0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:55.520
<v Speaker 1>Ramsey's jock qs I am qboard. He will be next

0:22:55.840 --> 0:22:57.760
<v Speaker 1>back next week and until then, peace,