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Speaker 1: Welcome to steph you missed in History Class from how

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tray py View Wilson. When

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Speaker 1: today's topic is often called the greatest female painter of

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Speaker 1: the Baroque period. But that's kind of one of those

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Speaker 1: things that makes me chuckle because there weren't very many

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Speaker 1: many women painters to speak of during that time, though

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Speaker 1: there were a couple of others in addition to today's topic,

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Speaker 1: but today's subject it was quite extraordinary. We've had a

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Speaker 1: couple of requests for this one, but the most recent

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Speaker 1: one came from mother and daughter Shelley and Annie and

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Speaker 1: also Um. Interestingly enough, right before we came into the

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Speaker 1: studio today, I got another one from another listener named Sophie.

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Speaker 1: I believe I'm going from memory, so apologies if that

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Speaker 1: is wrong. So we're talking about Artemisia Gentileski and I

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Speaker 1: have to issue a trigger warning because this episode does

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Speaker 1: talk about sexual assaults and it's not something we can

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Speaker 1: kind of skip through really quickly because it's part of

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Speaker 1: an event in the artist's life that was quite significant.

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Speaker 1: Uh So, if that is a topic that you would

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Speaker 1: rather not hear or share with younger listener to be advised,

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Speaker 1: this may not be the episode for you. We're also

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Speaker 1: gonna do something a little bit different here, and before

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Speaker 1: we actually get into Artemisia's story, we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about her father, uh a Razzio Gentileski, because he was

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Speaker 1: a vital part of his daughter becoming a painter. He

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Speaker 1: is an important figure in art history in his own right,

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Speaker 1: and because the pair did collaborate. Uh, we just wanted

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Speaker 1: to give you a little bit of context on him,

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Speaker 1: because he is referenced a good bit and he's uh,

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Speaker 1: as we said, pretty important. So we're gonna start with

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Speaker 1: Razzio's story. A Razzio was born a Razzio Nomi in

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Speaker 1: fifteen sixty two in Pizza, Italy, and when he was

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Speaker 1: still a young man, so not a child anymore, Lomi

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Speaker 1: moved to Rome. And the timing of this move is uncertain,

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Speaker 1: but most UH historians will date it somewhere around the

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Speaker 1: late fifteen seventies or early fifteen eighties. He would have

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Speaker 1: been roughly twenty at this time. As a caveat sort

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Speaker 1: of going forward with this episode, almost any date that

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Speaker 1: we mentioned without with a few exceptions are going to

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Speaker 1: be approximated. Uh and we'll talk about that some a

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Speaker 1: little bit later. But any time you look up the

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Speaker 1: work of Ratio or Artemisia, when you see their works painted,

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Speaker 1: they're always circa these years or these years, So just

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Speaker 1: know we'll use some specific years, but it's really kind

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Speaker 1: of a it was around this time. Uh So Razzio,

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Speaker 1: like we said, would have been about twenty when he

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Speaker 1: moved to Rome in the fifteen seventies or early fifteen eighties,

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Speaker 1: and this is also roughly the time when he started painting.

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Speaker 1: Early on in his time in Rome, Arazzio worked on

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Speaker 1: church frescoes and collaboration with Agastino Tassi. Tassi was a

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Speaker 1: really well known landscape painter, and together the pair decorated

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Speaker 1: the walls of the Santa Maria, Maggiore, San Giovanni, La Terrano,

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Speaker 1: and Santa Nicola. We're not quite sure exactly when Arazzio

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Speaker 1: Lo Lomi changed his name to Gentile Asci, but he did,

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Speaker 1: and in the early seventeenth century he became heavily influenced

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Speaker 1: by Caravaggio, and of course Caravaggio is known for his

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Speaker 1: use of contrast. He offset light areas by deepening the

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Speaker 1: shadows around them, and this is known as tenebrism, and

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Speaker 1: this created incredibly dramatic paintings. Yeah, there are many other

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Speaker 1: things that Caravaggio is known for, but that's kind of

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Speaker 1: one of the things that when you're doing a quick

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Speaker 1: art history course, they'll mention his use of light and

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Speaker 1: dark in contrast to create great drama. Uh. And right

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Speaker 1: around sixteen hundred, when Ratio was thirty seven and his

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Speaker 1: daughter at this time would have been about seven, Caravaggio

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Speaker 1: completed two paintings that would create this significant shift in

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Speaker 1: the art world and give rise eventually to what was

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Speaker 1: called the Baroque style. The Calling of St. Matthew and

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Speaker 1: The Martyrdom of St. Matthew, which are two paintings that

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Speaker 1: he did roughly at the same time, introduced this signature

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Speaker 1: signature style of light and shadow that were juxtaposed for

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Speaker 1: both dynamic tension and also a high level of realism.

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Speaker 1: Arrazzio Gentileski was mesmerized by Caravaggio, and the two of

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Speaker 1: them became friends and drinking buddies for a while. Their

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Speaker 1: camaraderie didn't really last though both of the men had

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Speaker 1: reputations for being really hot headed, but Arazzio's work from

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Speaker 1: this period shows Caravaggio's way in his style. Arrazzio's paintings

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Speaker 1: David and Goliath, St. Cecilia and an Angel, and his

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Speaker 1: sixteen o nine piece Madonna and Child really bear a

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Speaker 1: clear mark of his admiration for Caravaggio, And of course

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Speaker 1: razzio style did continue to evolve, and while that Caravaggio

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Speaker 1: influence remained in his work, the paintings that Gentileski produced

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Speaker 1: going forward started to favor this sort of lighter color palette,

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Speaker 1: and it also reintegrated the Mannerist style that he had

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Speaker 1: studied when he was younger. In sixty three, he painted

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Speaker 1: what's considered to be his masterpiece. It was called The Annunciation.

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Speaker 1: This painting features the Virgin Mary and the angel Gabriel,

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Speaker 1: and there's still a level of drama and immediacy about

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Speaker 1: the composition, but it's less visually heavy than the two

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Speaker 1: that we mentioned a moment ago. And just a few

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Speaker 1: years after he painted The Annunciation, Arrazzio was invited to

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Speaker 1: England by King Charles, the first to become court painter,

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Speaker 1: to finish out his artistic career. Razzio worked alongside his

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Speaker 1: daughter Artemisia on a huge project in the Queen's House

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Speaker 1: in Greenwich. Throughout sixteen thirty eight. The father daughter team

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Speaker 1: painted the ceiling panels there. You know, we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: those a little bit more later. Uh. And that's just

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Speaker 1: like I said, a quick mini biography of Razzio, And

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Speaker 1: before we get into Artemisia's specific story, do you want

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Speaker 1: to have a word from a sponsor? Yes, I do so.

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Speaker 1: Razzio's daughter, Artemisia Gentileski was born in Rome, Italy, on

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Speaker 1: July eighth, fifteen ninety three. Too. Of course, her father

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Speaker 1: Rozzio and her mother, Prudentia Montoni. When Artemisia was twelve,

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Speaker 1: which was in sixteen o five, her mother died in childbirth,

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Speaker 1: and at that point it seemed likely that she was

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Speaker 1: probably going to send to be sent to a convent

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Speaker 1: to become a nun. But over the next several years,

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Speaker 1: Razzio became aware that his daughter had artistic leanings and

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Speaker 1: he started to teach her how to paint. Yeah, he

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Speaker 1: also had sons, and he was kind of teaching all

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Speaker 1: of his children, but Artemisia was really the one that

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Speaker 1: stood out as having a real talent for this, and

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Speaker 1: she produced her earliest signed work in sixteen ten at

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Speaker 1: the age of seventeen, and that's called Susannah and the Elders.

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Speaker 1: In this painting depicts the biblical story of Susannah who

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Speaker 1: rejected two men and is then accused by them of

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Speaker 1: adultery in retribution for her unwillingness to be with them.

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Speaker 1: And in Gentilewski's version, the two men are very conspiratorial.

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Speaker 1: One is whispering in the ear of the other, and

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Speaker 1: while Susannah, who's unclothed, holds up her hands as if

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Speaker 1: to shield herself from their words. The next year, and

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Speaker 1: back to the warning that we had at the top

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Speaker 1: of the podcast, would turn into a really harrowing one.

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Speaker 1: On May six of sixteen eleven, Artemisio was raped by

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Speaker 1: her father's colleague, uh Agostino Tassi. That's the same landscape

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Speaker 1: painter that her father worked on church frescoes with. For

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Speaker 1: historical context, at the time, rape was not really viewed

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Speaker 1: quite the same way we do today. It was not

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Speaker 1: so much considered an affront to the female victim or

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Speaker 1: a brutalization of her. It was looked at a little

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Speaker 1: bit more as an insult to her family. So uh.

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Speaker 1: The retribution that Razzio demanded was that Tassi must marry

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Speaker 1: his daughter. This is actually not uncommon in sort of uh,

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Speaker 1: the kind of sexual interactions of the day, that a

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Speaker 1: man would take a woman by force and eventually end

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Speaker 1: up married to her as part of an agreement with

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Speaker 1: the family. And initially Agustino Tassi agreed to this, he

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Speaker 1: was actually already already married. There's some question marks around that. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And he apparently used this promise that he was going

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Speaker 1: to marry Artemisia as leverage to continue his sexual relationship

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Speaker 1: with her, but eventually he backed out of the deal

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Speaker 1: and said he was not going to marry her after all.

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Speaker 1: Passie's reversal on the matter sent Arazzio into a fury.

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Speaker 1: He sought legal action against his associate and this resulted

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Speaker 1: in the episode of Artemisia's life that often eclipsed her work.

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Speaker 1: It was a trial that dragged on for nearly eight months,

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Speaker 1: and the transcript of this trial still exists, and it's

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Speaker 1: more than three hundred pages long. Uh. And I will

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Speaker 1: confess I did not read it because it is an

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Speaker 1: Italian but I read various excerpts in translation. Just f y.

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Speaker 1: I uh. And even though we mentioned it at the

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Speaker 1: top of the episode and Tracy mentioned it again just

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Speaker 1: a moment ago, I really feel like I should issue

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Speaker 1: a quick warning before we get into sort of talking

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Speaker 1: about the testimony, because it's very upsetting, not just for

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Speaker 1: the actual event that happened, but how the victim was

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Speaker 1: treated in the process of all of this. So Artemisia

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Speaker 1: had to testify repeatedly during these proceedings, and in her account,

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Speaker 1: she said that Tossi stormed into her father's studio while

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Speaker 1: she was painting. And because her father was a working

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Speaker 1: painter with a studio at his home, people did come

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Speaker 1: and go all the time, and according to her testimony,

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Speaker 1: she said that Tassi came in yelling not so much

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Speaker 1: painting repeatedly, and then he took her tools from her

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Speaker 1: and threw them on the floor and then proceeded to

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Speaker 1: attack her. She fought back, but she was overpowered. She

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Speaker 1: actually turned a knife on him. After it was over,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't enough that she gave this testimony. The veracity

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Speaker 1: of her statement had to be tested. It was tested

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Speaker 1: by torture using thumbscrews to see if she would change

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Speaker 1: her story. Sorry, under duress, she remained steadfast in her

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Speaker 1: account and eventually referred to the torture device when yelling

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Speaker 1: at her attacker, this is the ring you gave me,

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Speaker 1: and these are your promises. It's very hard for me

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Speaker 1: to think about that, especially because Augustino Tassi faced no

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Speaker 1: such torture when it came to his testimony, even though

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Speaker 1: he had at best a checkered history, and he gave

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Speaker 1: obviously contradictory testimony. UH records indicate that the judge would

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Speaker 1: even stop him periodically and go, wait, that's completely different

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Speaker 1: than what you said before. UH. He had been imprisoned

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Speaker 1: prior to this for incest, and he had told multiple

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Speaker 1: witnesses that he had been sleeping with Artemisia, But then

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Speaker 1: during the trial, even though those witnesses had had testified

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Speaker 1: to those conversations, he said that he had never had

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Speaker 1: a sexual relationship with her and that he would only

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Speaker 1: visit the house to protect her virginity from other would

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Speaker 1: be rapists. So this story kept changing, and he also

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Speaker 1: claimed that she had slept with her father, and that

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Speaker 1: her mother and her aunt, who were women that he

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Speaker 1: did not know, were in fact horrors, and he insinuated

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Speaker 1: that prostitution was something of a family tradition, and even

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Speaker 1: at one point suggested that her father had sold her

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Speaker 1: to other men. In short, he was utterly vile and

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Speaker 1: just said horrible things, and he did not have to

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Speaker 1: face this horrible torture that she did. We didn't even

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Speaker 1: have to really face his sentence. He was found guilty

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Speaker 1: and exiled from Rome for five years, but it appears

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Speaker 1: that his exile was not enforced, uh, and not on

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Speaker 1: the timeline. We're going to jump back a little bit

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Speaker 1: and talk about that painting that we mentioned earlier. So,

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Speaker 1: because the dates of Arnemisia's paintings are generally all approximated,

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Speaker 1: some people place her painting of Susannah and the Elders

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Speaker 1: in different positions, suggesting slightly different interpretations of the work.

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Speaker 1: So scholars that place it as being painted just prior

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Speaker 1: to the rape suggest that she may have been expressing

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Speaker 1: a scenario in which she had been fending off the

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Speaker 1: advances of her father's friends for a while already, and

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Speaker 1: we do know some of that was going on. There

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Speaker 1: was another man in addition to Agastino Tassi, named Cosimo Corli,

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Speaker 1: who had been pretty sexually aggressive with her and had

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Speaker 1: perhaps even attempted to rape her as well. So the

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Speaker 1: idea of the two men in the painting being Corley

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Speaker 1: and Tassi is certainly one possibility and is a popular interpretation. Alternately,

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Speaker 1: when scholars placed the painting of Susannah concurrently on the

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Speaker 1: timeline with the trial or just prior but after the rape,

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Speaker 1: it's perceived more as a statement about her defense of

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Speaker 1: her virtue having been taken from her and her being

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Speaker 1: innocent in all of it. After the Tassi ordeal, Artemisia

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Speaker 1: did marry, and she married another painter. This is a

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Speaker 1: match that was arranged by her father. Her husband, par

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Speaker 1: Antonio davich Enzo uh Stiatse, was also a painter, and

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Speaker 1: the couple left Rome and headed to Florence. Harazzio had

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Speaker 1: already written to the Grand Duchess of Tuscany on his

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Speaker 1: daughter behalf, asking for a patronage. The patronage was granted,

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Speaker 1: and Artemisia and her husband stayed in Florence for almost

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Speaker 1: a decade. While she was there, she was producing works

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Speaker 1: for the Grand Duke of Tuscany close Demdici, and she

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Speaker 1: became really ingrained in the art world there, and she

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Speaker 1: made a lot of friends. She even became friends with

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Speaker 1: famed astronomer Galileo. One of the paintings that Artemisia worked

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Speaker 1: on during her time in Florence, with Judith slaying Holofernes,

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Speaker 1: and as with Susannah and the Elders, that focuses on

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Speaker 1: a female character, and in this case that's Judith and

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Speaker 1: she's killing the Assyrian military leader Holofernes to save the

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Speaker 1: Jewish people of Bethulia, and this painting is quite graphic.

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Speaker 1: Her paintings shows Judith cutting the general's throat with the

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Speaker 1: assistance of a handmaiden, and in a follow up painting

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Speaker 1: entitled Judith and her maid Servant, the two women are

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Speaker 1: depicted after the general's defeat, carrying the head of Holophernes

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Speaker 1: in a basket. A popular theory about these paintings pecularly.

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Speaker 1: The first is that this was part of how Gentleleski

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Speaker 1: was working through her experience of having been sexually assaulted

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Speaker 1: and then having to go through the horror of that

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Speaker 1: long trial, and that depicting a woman enacting such brutal

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Speaker 1: violence on a male figure with something of a revenge

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Speaker 1: statement when the painting was unveiled. This, of course, is

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Speaker 1: all speculative, though it's all art interpretation. And also as

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Speaker 1: a counterpoint, there are scholars who are quick to point

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Speaker 1: out that there's definitely a taste for violence and gore

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Speaker 1: amongst art patrons at the time, so she may well

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Speaker 1: have just been making lucrative decisions about her work subjects.

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Speaker 1: There's a two thousand two interview with Smithsonian in which

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Speaker 1: Judith Man, who's a curator of early European art at

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Speaker 1: the St. Louis Art Museum at the time, and she

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Speaker 1: mentioned that while a lot is made of Artemisia's work

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Speaker 1: being vengeful in nature, fewer than a quarter of the

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Speaker 1: painter's works feature women in that vein. And before we

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Speaker 1: get to what happens to Artemisia after she leaves Florence,

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Speaker 1: do you want to have another quick word from a sponsor?

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Speaker 1: Let's do you want to start talking about history again?

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Speaker 1: So back to Artemisia. Around six she was ready to

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Speaker 1: leave Florence. She and her husband had had four children together,

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Speaker 1: but three of them did not make it past childhood.

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Speaker 1: They died, and moreover, her marriage was not a particularly

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Speaker 1: happy one. Pierre Antonio had a problem with spending money

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Speaker 1: more quickly than they were taking it in, and he's

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Speaker 1: alleged to have cheated on her repeatedly and just sort

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Speaker 1: of that. They had a contentious and unhappy union. So,

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Speaker 1: perhaps hoping for a fresh start, Artemisia, Parentonio, and their

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Speaker 1: surviving child, who was named Prudentia, moved to Rome, and

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Speaker 1: as have been the case in Florence, the painter made

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Speaker 1: friends within the art community, and this put a strain

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Speaker 1: on her already crumbling marriage. Parenttonio actually slashed the face

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Speaker 1: of one of Artemisia's male acquaintances, and not long after

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Speaker 1: that he left the marriage for good, leaving behind his

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Speaker 1: daughter as well. So uh, roughly ten to twelve years

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Speaker 1: after she had painted the image of Judith and her

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Speaker 1: main maid servant carrying the severed head of Holofernes, Artemisia

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Speaker 1: revisited that same subject of Judith again in her work,

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Speaker 1: and this was somewhere around sixteen twenty three or sixteen

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Speaker 1: twenty five, so it was during her time in Rome,

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Speaker 1: and the painting that she created at this point was

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Speaker 1: Judith and her maid servant with the head of Holofernes.

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Speaker 1: This time it's still a depiction of two women and

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Speaker 1: again after the beheading, and it's in a way that

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Speaker 1: creates tension and urgency, the seen as lit by candle light,

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Speaker 1: and that candle light itself as part of the composition.

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Speaker 1: The light and shadows she creates around that light source

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Speaker 1: are just incredible. Even the gossamer fabric that's draped over

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Speaker 1: one of Judith's shoulders is affected by the light of

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Speaker 1: the flame in a way that makes the candle almost

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Speaker 1: seemed like it must be flickering. There's also a less

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Speaker 1: This is also a less brutal representation of the story

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Speaker 1: than the earlier works. There's a lot less gore. Yet

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Speaker 1: it feels a little bit more like it is less

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Speaker 1: about the murder and more about the two women, if

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Speaker 1: that makes sense. I will be pinning all of these

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Speaker 1: on t interest, and then our listeners can go and

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Speaker 1: kind of get a sense of what we're talking about

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Speaker 1: and decide for themselves how they feel like it looks

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Speaker 1: um And while she was not the toast of Rome

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Speaker 1: the way that she had been in Florence, and this

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Speaker 1: was largely due to shifting tastes among art patrons, uh

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Speaker 1: Genteinski did receive a commission from King Philip the fourth

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Speaker 1: of Spain in six seven. In this particular project provided

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Speaker 1: her enough money that she could stay afloat and also

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Speaker 1: support her daughter. In sixteen thirty the Bubonic plague took

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Speaker 1: a huge toll on Veness. It killed a third of

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Speaker 1: the people there, and to escape the sickness, Gentileski moved

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Speaker 1: to Naples. Yeah. Just other than a brief for a

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Speaker 1: elsewhere which we're about to talk about, Naples really became

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Speaker 1: her home for the rest of her life. Around sixty

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Speaker 1: eight or sixteen thirty nine, depending on when you look,

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Speaker 1: but most favored sixteen thirty eight, she went to London

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Speaker 1: to work with her father on the Queen's House for

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Speaker 1: Queen Henrietta Maria, and she had resisted several requests to

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Speaker 1: go to London prior to this, in part because she

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Speaker 1: did not want to work for the Anglican king, although

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Speaker 1: Queen Henrietta Maria was Roman Catholic. Uh but frankly, her

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Speaker 1: work had really dried up in Italy. She was having

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Speaker 1: trouble making ends meet, so she finally acquiesced on this

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Speaker 1: trip to London. During the work on the house at Greenwich,

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Speaker 1: Arazzio died, and that was in February of sixteen thirty nine.

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Speaker 1: Artemisia stayed in London for a couple of more years,

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Speaker 1: but as soon as she had work back in Italy,

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Speaker 1: she went back to Naples. Yeah, and she continued to

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Speaker 1: work for the rest of her life. But she died

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Speaker 1: in Naples around sixteen fifty two. She would have been

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Speaker 1: approximately fifty nine at that time, and while she had

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Speaker 1: been painting, uh really, most art scholars kind of regard

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Speaker 1: her earlier works as her best work. So for a

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Speaker 1: long time, Artemisia's works were actually attributed to other artists.

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Speaker 1: And this wasn't part due to the fact that her

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Speaker 1: father had been her primary teacher, as well as the

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Speaker 1: fact that she was a woman, and there are even

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Speaker 1: sort of ongoing debates about this um. We mentioned earlier

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Speaker 1: that Susannah and the Elders was her first sign painting,

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Speaker 1: and that was in about sixteen ten. But there is

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Speaker 1: another piece called Madonna and Child from sixteen o nine

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Speaker 1: that is sometimes credited to Artemisia and sometimes to her father.

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Speaker 1: We mentioned it earlier as one of her father's pieces,

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Speaker 1: but that continues to be some debate about it. Even

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Speaker 1: though Susannah and the Elders has her signature on it,

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Speaker 1: it was long believed to be her father's work because

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Speaker 1: a lot of people found it really difficult to believe

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Speaker 1: that a young woman of seventeen can paint with that

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Speaker 1: much maturity, And also because she was a woman, that

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Speaker 1: rape that had so affected her life we mentioned earlier

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Speaker 1: sometimes really overshadowed her abilities in her work, and having

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Speaker 1: been part of a rape trial basically cast out on

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Speaker 1: her sexuality and her honor for her entire life. Even

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Speaker 1: though the aggressor had been found guilty, it's still just

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Speaker 1: kind of put a stain on her reputation. And even

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Speaker 1: prior to that assault, her reputation was constantly questioned because

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Speaker 1: of the open nature of her father's studio and the

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Speaker 1: men and women who often visited as both colleagues and models.

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Speaker 1: Just the idea that she was exposed to so many

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Speaker 1: people coming and going led to some some rumors about her.

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Speaker 1: So while her talent was really obvious, people really wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk about the possible scandals attached to her than

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Speaker 1: her amazing skill and the amazing work she was doing.

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Speaker 1: For her own part, she readily recognized and openly discussed

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Speaker 1: her struggles working in a field that was dominated by men.

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Speaker 1: In a letter to a page friend later in her life,

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Speaker 1: she described the tiresome nature of trying to defend her

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Speaker 1: work as her own, and the fight to get a

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Speaker 1: fair price for it. She wrote, you feel sorry for

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Speaker 1: me because a woman's name raises doubts until her work

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Speaker 1: is seen. If I were a man, I can't imagine

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Speaker 1: it would have turned out this way. But it's also

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Speaker 1: important to note that, um, there was also a lot

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Speaker 1: of acclaim for her in her lifetime, and in fact,

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Speaker 1: some scholars have suggested that because of the huge scandal

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Speaker 1: when she was seventeen, it actually kind of opened the

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Speaker 1: door for her to be able to paint some of

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Speaker 1: her uh more sort of gory and graphic pieces. Uh

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Speaker 1: That it was more accepted for her at that point

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Speaker 1: to be able to do those things, but still again

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Speaker 1: an issue of debate. Uh. In sixty five, though, she

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Speaker 1: wrote this note to her friend Galileo quote, I have

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Speaker 1: seen myself honored by all the kings and rulers of Europe,

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Speaker 1: to whom I have sent my works, not only with

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Speaker 1: great gifts, but also with most favored letters, which I

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Speaker 1: keep with me. Those feeling panels that she and her

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Speaker 1: father worked down together in London were removed from the

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Speaker 1: Queen's house, and now they're in Barbara House in London

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Speaker 1: and in two thousand two, so it's more than a

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Speaker 1: decade ago, but uh quite neat. Uh. The New York

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Speaker 1: Metropolitan Museum of Art hosted an exhibit entitled Razzio and

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Speaker 1: Artemisio Gentileski, father and daughter painters in Baroque Italy, and

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Speaker 1: the works of both of the artists were featured together,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of a lovely way is to sum

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Speaker 1: up there their lives and how they affected one another.

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Speaker 1: And we'll link to we have one of the catalogs

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Speaker 1: from that exhibition was one of my um sources, so

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Speaker 1: we'll have a link to that in the show notes.

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Speaker 1: And it's worth a look because it's it's very interesting

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Speaker 1: to see sort of the lineage and development of style.

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Speaker 1: You can see like the Caravaggio style and a lot

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Speaker 1: in her father's work, and then it evolves in his work,

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Speaker 1: and then her work kind of evolves it some more.

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Speaker 1: It's it's pretty interesting to look at. If you're in

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Speaker 1: art history, do you also have listener mail? I do? First?

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Speaker 1: I have listener mail. I actually have a few, uh

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Speaker 1: and uh they are about our narcilepsy episodes. And we've

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Speaker 1: read one listener mail about narcalepsy in a previous episode,

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Speaker 1: but we've gotten so many and people have been really

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Speaker 1: so kind to share their experiences with us that I

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Speaker 1: wanna try to give voice to as many of them

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Speaker 1: as I can. One of the things that I really

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Speaker 1: appreciate is that I mentioned at the end of the

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Speaker 1: second episode. I think that I have known a couple

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Speaker 1: of people with an earcalepsy in my life, but neither

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Speaker 1: of them had cataplexy. So hearing people describe what that

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Speaker 1: is like is a whole other universe of information. UM.

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Speaker 1: I won't read the whole letter, but our listener, Ashley

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Speaker 1: wrote us and she was appreciative of it, and she

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Speaker 1: mentions that she has an earcalepsy and catoplexy, and her

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Speaker 1: description of it, I think is lovely. She says the

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Speaker 1: latter I always describe as a doll losing its ball joints. Temporarily,

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Speaker 1: I lose the ability to speak clearly, often sounding drunk.

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Speaker 1: My knees buckle, and my neck does as well. It

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Speaker 1: obviously never lasts long, but it is quite embarrassing. Um.

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Speaker 1: I hate that she has to be embarrassed by it,

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Speaker 1: but I understand. But it's a that's a really good

427
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 1: way to put it. I think for people that maybe

428
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: have never seen it or certainly don't have it, that's

429
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 1: a It's an indicator of how like your body just

430
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: kind of crumples on you and you you really don't

431
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 1: have any uh way to deal with it. Our next

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00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:34,120
Speaker 1: email is from our listener Catherine, and she uh makes

433
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: a little plea that I think is a good one.

434
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 1: So she mentions, the day before Part one of the

435
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 1: History of Arcalypsy was released, I was in attendance at

436
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 1: the New York and Arcaleptics meetup group, which I'm pretty

437
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: sure I posed the question when do people start having

438
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 1: a word for an arcalepsy lo And behold the very

439
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: next day stuff you missed an industry class delivered. I'm

440
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 1: glad for that accidental timing. Uh. Catherine says she's had

441
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: an earcailepsy since her preteens, and she was diagnosed as

442
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 1: a junior in high school. She's an thirty two, so

443
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 1: she spent the vast majority of her memorable life with

444
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: the condition, and she uh is giving us a couple

445
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 1: of paragraphs about her personal history, and she says, as

446
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 1: a teenager, I fell asleep in class every day but

447
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: I didn't have cataplexy or any other symptoms which might

448
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: have indicated that something was wrong other than me being

449
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 1: a lazy student. I was deeply frustrated and embarrassed by

450
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 1: what I thought was my lack of willpower to stay awake,

451
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 1: but never considered that my inability to be alert might

452
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: be linked to a sleep disorder. I was lucky in

453
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: that my mother, who has sleep troubles of her own,

454
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,959
Speaker 1: described my symptoms to her sleep doctor, who suggested I

455
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 1: come in for testing. In retrospect, I can easily say

456
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: that getting diagnosed with narcilepsy was one of the best

457
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: things that has ever happened to me, because it resulted

458
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: in my gaining access to drugs which substantially reduced my symptoms.

459
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: I often look back and wonder what would have happened

460
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 1: to me if I had never been diagnosed and received

461
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: treatment for minarcilepsy. I think I would have struggled a

462
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,439
Speaker 1: great deal in college, and I would have found it

463
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: nearly impossible to hold down a regular job. I think

464
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: I would have grown increasingly angry and unhappy as I

465
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: older without developing the ability to function as a quote

466
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: unquote responsible adult. The ability to control the behavior of

467
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: one's own body is elemental to personal safety, to social

468
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 1: and professional acceptance, and perhaps most importantly, to one sense

469
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,719
Speaker 1: of self respect. The imaginary version of me who never

470
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: found out about her condition is someone who would be

471
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 1: suffering today on all of those fronts. It may be

472
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 1: too late to influence your plans for recording episode two.

473
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: It was we already had it recorded. But if it isn't,

474
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: she says, I beg you to incorporate something along the

475
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: lines of this brief p s A. A lot of

476
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 1: people have narcolepsy and don't know it. If you have symptoms,

477
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: it is worth it to get yourself tested. That I

478
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 1: think is a really good message that um, you know,

479
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: we hadn't thought about. It's kind of inherent. We would

480
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: hope that once people are aware of a possible thing,

481
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 1: they may be able to interpret something that's going on.

482
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 1: But that is a really good point, I think. And

483
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 1: several of the people that wrote us mentioned that they

484
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: had those feelings of like being angry and frustrated and

485
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,479
Speaker 1: feeling like they were trying so hard to do things

486
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: and they could before they were diagnosed. So I imagine

487
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people undiagnosed that are going

488
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 1: through those really negative emotions that don't really have to.

489
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 1: Uh So, if you think you might follow Catherine's advice,

490
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 1: get somebody, get a professional to investigate the situation. And again,

491
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 1: thank you to everybody who has been sharing their their

492
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: emails and their stories with us. It's really incredible and

493
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: I'm certainly very appreciative that you guys have all been

494
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: very open about your struggles and sort of what you've

495
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: gone through. So thank you for that. Uh. If you

496
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: would like to write to us, you can do so

497
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: at History Podcast at how stuff Works dot com. You

498
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: can also connect to this at Facebook dot com slash

499
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: missed in History, on Twitter at missed in History, missed

500
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 1: in History dot toms are dot com, and at pentterest

501
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: dot com slash missed in History. We're gonna have so

502
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: many pretty things to pin after being episode. If you

503
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,239
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505
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506
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 1: think of you'd like to research a little bit relate

507
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: into what we're talking talking about today in sort of

508
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: a bigger arcing kind of sense. You can go to

509
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: our website, our parent website, hows to Works. Type in

510
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: the word art, then you will get an article on

511
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: how art works. Uh, and that will give you some

512
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: very broad stroke discussion of what art is, so that

513
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: you can kind of can textualize to toe Leski's work

514
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: and all the way from Caravaggio down to her and

515
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: how that sort of all plays out. Uh. If you

516
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 1: would like to visit us at our websites that has

517
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: missed in history dot com and we have show notes,

518
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: we have all of our archived episodes, we have the

519
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,080
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520
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: or visit our parents site how staff works dot com

521
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,240
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522
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: it how staff works dot com