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Speaker 1: Hey, what up.

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Speaker 2: Welcome in, I'm Dog Gottlieb. This is all Ball. Here

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Speaker 2: in the Doug Gottlieb Show, All Ball Hot Feed. We

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Speaker 2: get to catch up with super agent in the nil Era,

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Speaker 2: Dan Poneman for our weekly visit coming up. And I

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Speaker 2: challenged Dan and one of the things that we're going

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Speaker 2: to do as we move forward is and Dan is super,

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Speaker 2: super honest about where his positioning comes from.

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Speaker 1: Right, he is an agent for the players.

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Speaker 2: That means he represents their best interest, not my best interest,

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Speaker 2: not the school's best interest, not the NCAA's best interest.

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Speaker 1: Again, a true.

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Speaker 2: Agent has only one goal in mind, to create the

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Speaker 2: best situation for the person or persons that he represents. Right,

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Speaker 2: So my job is to one talk about the topics

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Speaker 2: that actually matter, and then two give the perspective of

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Speaker 2: the other side, not just the coach's side, the donor side,

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Speaker 2: the school side. All these things are in fact related.

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Speaker 2: So that's upcoming in the pot. As for a basketball side,

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Speaker 2: we got thumped in our last outing by Oakland and

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Speaker 2: the Golden Grizzlies.

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Speaker 1: Obviously, great Campy, he's been doing it forever.

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Speaker 2: But that end of day five game winning streak in

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Speaker 2: which my team. I felt like I was starting to

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Speaker 2: kind of find their groove and really really gained confidence

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Speaker 2: in how.

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Speaker 1: To win games. How to win games.

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Speaker 2: The hardest thing I think to teach is how to win,

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Speaker 2: and I don't know if we've taught it thoroughly, because

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Speaker 2: we did. We did some losing stuff against Oakland and

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Speaker 2: it clearly got away from us.

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Speaker 1: That said, it is just one game.

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Speaker 2: You gotta flush it and know that they exposed a

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Speaker 2: matchup weakness that we have with them and with some

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Speaker 2: other teams that we're going to have to shore up.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna have to find a way to expose their

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Speaker 2: weaknesses next time we play them in Oakland, Michigan.

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Speaker 1: That being said, it's a great learning lesson for me

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Speaker 1: as a coach.

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Speaker 2: We thought, you know, last year, we got them out

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Speaker 2: of their zone, and Campi was incredibly effused in his praise,

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Speaker 2: even tho they beat us, and saying I was the

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Speaker 2: first coach and went fifteen years to get him out

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Speaker 2: of the zone.

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Speaker 1: We couldn't this time.

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Speaker 2: We didn't attack the rim, we didn't make our threes,

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Speaker 2: we didn't make proper reads. We got a little bit stuck,

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Speaker 2: and he did a great job of varying it as

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Speaker 2: he's changed it from last year because they're quicker at

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Speaker 2: the guard spots than they were last year, but they

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Speaker 2: don't have the rim protection they had last year. And

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Speaker 2: it's just interesting to see how he morphs how he

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Speaker 2: recruits to it. Right, Well, you can recruit players that

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Speaker 2: aren't strong in man and man defense if you can

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Speaker 2: hide them in a zone. And his zone is one

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Speaker 2: in which it's very hard to run man to man

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Speaker 2: stuff against which ultimately, when we run zone, we don't

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Speaker 2: run the same zone. You know, it still becomes about

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Speaker 2: exposing our weaknesses. At some point when you get to

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Speaker 2: the high post, you got a match man for man.

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Speaker 2: So that's kind of the goal. As you get further

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Speaker 2: on in the season, can you make a zone team

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Speaker 2: essentially play man because the reason they're playing zone is

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Speaker 2: they don't want to play man. Making zens right like

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Speaker 2: you're playing zone the greatest compliment you can give me.

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Speaker 2: And it happened earlier this year in conference play. I

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Speaker 2: won't share with you it is because we still play them.

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Speaker 2: Another time is a team that doesn't play any zone

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Speaker 2: and you're kind of shredding them. Ultimately throws out a

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Speaker 2: zone just to hey, we got to stop your rhythm and.

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Speaker 1: It didn't work.

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Speaker 2: Ultimately, they did stop a rhythm, but not with the zone.

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Speaker 2: Point is that you play zone because you're trying to

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Speaker 2: hide what you.

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Speaker 1: Can't do in Mando Man.

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Speaker 2: If that makes sense to you, and I know that's

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Speaker 2: why coach Campy does it. It allows his big guys

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Speaker 2: to play longer and play without foul trouble because he

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Speaker 2: puts their head under the rim and they rarely come

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Speaker 2: out from there. He has a really talented point guard,

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Speaker 2: but he's fairly diminutive, and we would get him in

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Speaker 2: switches or we would just post him. We'd use our

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Speaker 2: size advantage even though he has a quick disadvantage. And again,

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Speaker 2: when you hide him within his zone, he becomes really

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Speaker 2: he's a very smart, very athletic, very quick player. And

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Speaker 2: the other thing that they're able to do, and again

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Speaker 2: he can do it because he's been there for over

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Speaker 2: forty years, is they play I think seven guarantee games

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Speaker 2: against the highest level of competition and not freak out

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Speaker 2: when they don't win any of those games. No one's

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Speaker 2: firing great Campy, so he can fiddle with work on

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Speaker 2: develop his team, develop what he wants to do. And

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Speaker 2: teach him how he wants to play, and while they're

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Speaker 2: trying to win games, they're not concerning themselves with losing

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Speaker 2: those games because that's one how they fund their program.

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Speaker 1: And two, he knows that no.

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Speaker 2: One's going to fire him because he loses to Michigan, Arkansas,

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Speaker 2: saw Kentucky blah.

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Speaker 1: Blah blah blah blah blah blah bah.

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Speaker 2: The rest of us, we're just trying to get our

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Speaker 2: head above water, play the guarantee games to be competitive,

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Speaker 2: and then try and find a way to schedule to

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Speaker 2: where we can finish with our head above water, because

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Speaker 2: it's that's the challenge of being at a mid major.

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Speaker 1: So the point of it is, these are lessons.

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Speaker 2: That you learn over time as you're a young coach

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Speaker 2: and you're kind of growing. And I thought their game

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Speaker 2: plan was brilliant. I thought they exposed us some I

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Speaker 2: thought we didn't make shots, we didn't make smart plays,

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Speaker 2: some of our guys didn't listen to our preparation, and

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Speaker 2: some of our preparation has to be better. So all told,

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Speaker 2: that's what happens. Whereas in the previous five games, I

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Speaker 2: felt like we were very connected, but there were also

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Speaker 2: matchups that maybe they didn't favor us, but there wasn't

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Speaker 2: as much.

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Speaker 1: Exposure for where we are weak.

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Speaker 2: And additionally, like it's not just about matchups, it's about

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Speaker 2: we had some guys that have been playing at a

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Speaker 2: very high level that didn't play.

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Speaker 1: We didn't play well, and.

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Speaker 2: When when your best players don't play well, you can

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Speaker 2: only survive so much, especially when you're playing against a

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Speaker 2: really talented team at your level, which is what Oakland is.

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Speaker 1: They are very talented and he did a great job.

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Speaker 1: So Lesson learned.

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Speaker 2: The other part too, it is if you've been following

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Speaker 2: our story, I've been wearing the same quarter zip and

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Speaker 2: polo every game since the wind streak started without washing it.

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Speaker 2: That was a mistake on Sunday because it didn't smell well.

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Speaker 2: And after we beat Cleveland State on Thursday, I got

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Speaker 2: doused with water because it was my fiftieth birthday and

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Speaker 2: now the stank was really bad. Plus it kind of

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Speaker 2: brushed up against some things in my bag, and there

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Speaker 2: was some coloring on it that wasn't white.

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Speaker 1: It was bad news.

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Speaker 2: So it's not the end of the world, even though

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Speaker 2: it feels like it at the time when you're standing

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Speaker 2: at the Sideline's and you just don't have the right

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Speaker 2: plan and you get beat by a better team on

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Speaker 2: that day.

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Speaker 1: But the good news is we live to play another day.

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Speaker 2: We go to Youngstown State and a Robert Morse on

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Speaker 2: the road as their travel partners this upcoming Thursday and Saturday,

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Speaker 2: and I will be wearing clean clothing for the first

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Speaker 2: time in the new year. That's the good news. Otherwise,

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Speaker 2: I do think that there's one thing going on in

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Speaker 2: college basketball which is absolutely fascinating, which is trying to

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Speaker 2: figure out who are actually.

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Speaker 1: The elite teams at each level.

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Speaker 2: Right, and again, let's just take Miami of Ohio and

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Speaker 2: is undefeated. I believe they are now currently ranked in

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Speaker 2: the top twenty five. It's really interesting because obviously Travis

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Speaker 2: A played a softer schedule, right, They didn't play any

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Speaker 2: I don't think they play any by games. And they

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Speaker 2: can sit there and say, hey, nobody wants to play us,

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Speaker 2: and it's true, nobody wants to play home and homes

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Speaker 2: against It's really really hard to schedule when you're somewhere

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Speaker 2: in that kind of one fifty to two twenty five range.

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Speaker 2: You know, last year when we were terrible, every after

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Speaker 2: every loss, there'd be an email or text if somebody

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Speaker 2: wanted to play. Who doesn't want to play, Hey, oh,

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Speaker 2: we'll start at your place next year.

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Speaker 1: Right, Actually that's not how they use it. You gotta

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Speaker 1: start our place. But the point is that Travis's schedule

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Speaker 1: that's wrong.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't mean they're not difficult games, that they were

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Speaker 2: underdogs early in the season, but it's always interesting on

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Speaker 2: how you know, if you really challenge your team at

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Speaker 2: your level, if you can afford to do that, you

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Speaker 2: can keep your confidence high those high major games like

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Speaker 2: when we played Kansas that just zapped us of all

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Speaker 2: of our confidence because our guys thought they sucked and

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Speaker 2: they were not good that day. But part of it

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Speaker 2: is Ken is better at every spot and they got

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Speaker 2: a Hall of Fame coach, like, they're just better. You know,

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Speaker 2: we don't have Flory, but Dounga we don't have. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: Darren Peterson played against us. Those guys are super high

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Speaker 2: level pros, and our guys, of the ten new ones,

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Speaker 2: none of them had played a Division one game.

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Speaker 1: Before in their life. So when everybody wants you.

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Speaker 2: To schedule the hardest schedule possible, but remember they don't

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Speaker 2: know shit about running a college basketball team, and though

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Speaker 2: you have to schedule up and at our level in

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Speaker 2: our league, we got to make some money, so we

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Speaker 2: got to play.

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Speaker 1: Some guarantee games.

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Speaker 2: You gotta be very careful with how much you travel

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Speaker 2: because it'll cause you to lose your next game. And

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Speaker 2: if you over challenge yourself at the wrong time in

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Speaker 2: the season, it can just let the air out of

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Speaker 2: any confidence balloon. So this is my way of saying

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Speaker 2: it's okay to be critical of mind Ohio and saying

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Speaker 2: they didn't play guarantee games. Their schedule wasn't at the

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Speaker 2: level of Oakland. Our schedule wasn't as difficult as some

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Speaker 2: of the MAC teams. But there's certain genius in it.

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Speaker 2: As he knew he had a good team, they built

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Speaker 2: up their confidence, they won games at their level. They

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Speaker 2: continue to find ways to win games in their league,

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Speaker 2: and they've done so without one of their best players

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Speaker 2: was out for the season. Confidence, I think is the

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Speaker 2: biggest element in winning college basketball. They have talent, sure,

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Speaker 2: but you should be somewhere in the neighborhood of your

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Speaker 2: opponent in your league. Talent wise should be Now, some

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Speaker 2: of us we don't have as many resources financially and

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Speaker 2: so or based upon where we are in growth of

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Speaker 2: the program. You may not have the talent of other teams,

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Speaker 2: but by and large, at your league, that's got to

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Speaker 2: be your level. But if you don't have any confidence,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't matter how good you are, how close you are,

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Speaker 2: how good your game plan is, you're not winning any games.

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Speaker 2: It can't be fake. It has to be earned, and

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Speaker 2: it's a hard way to earn it when you're playing schedule,

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Speaker 2: when people are critical of you and you schedule way.

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Speaker 1: Too difficult to gain.

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Speaker 2: All right, more on that to come in the coming episodes.

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Speaker 1: In the meantime, let's keept catch up with a boy DP.

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Speaker 2: He is the founder of We've, which is the biggest

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Speaker 2: nil agency in the college basketball landscape.

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Speaker 1: Dan Ponaman joins me for his weekly visit on All Ball.

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Speaker 1: All right, DP, let's get with the news of the day.

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Speaker 2: Get news of the day actually came down yesterday where

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Speaker 2: there's a new portal window. So the portal doesn't open

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Speaker 2: until fifteen days after the championship game is played, right,

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Speaker 2: so it pushes everything back to mid April, as opposed

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Speaker 2: to last year when it opened up in March. I

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Speaker 2: have my own opinion on it, but let me just

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Speaker 2: get yours. How did you think that affects business for you?

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Speaker 2: There's also the coaching.

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Speaker 1: Change is made.

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Speaker 2: You know, you can't get into it till five days

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Speaker 2: after the coaching change is made. If a coach is fired,

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Speaker 2: then there's thirty days after the coach is fired before

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Speaker 2: it opens up.

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Speaker 1: So there's some other things.

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Speaker 2: The bigger part is it's pushed back to after the

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Speaker 2: NCAA turned where the portal officially opens.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so first I'm gonna explain I'm happy you asked this.

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Speaker 4: First, I'm gonna explain what these actual these rules actually mean,

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Speaker 4: these new portal rules, because I post something on my

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Speaker 4: Instagram about and a lot of people were like freaking

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Speaker 4: out and didn't actually understand what the new portal window means.

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Speaker 4: Then I'm gonna explain why they did it and how

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Speaker 4: it actually helps schools. And then i'm gonna explain why

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Speaker 4: it's impressive to players, because ultimately all of it's always

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Speaker 4: precedent to players in some way, shape or form in

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Speaker 4: the NCAA is making it really so. First off, they

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Speaker 4: changed the portal window used to be forty five days

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Speaker 4: after the portal. Then it became thirty. Now it's fifteen

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Speaker 4: days after the NCAA tournament. Why did they do that, Ay,

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Speaker 4: because last year the portal opened in mid March and.

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Speaker 3: There were teams playing into April. So we had the

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Speaker 3: teams like.

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Speaker 4: Florida and Auburn who could be recruiting in the portal

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Speaker 4: because they were they you know, I was meeting with

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Speaker 4: Houston at the Final four last year about next year's roster,

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Speaker 4: and they were recruiting one of my guys when they

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Speaker 4: were still in the recruiting.

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Speaker 3: When I in the portal, they're still playing in the

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Speaker 3: Final four, right.

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Speaker 2: Plus there's there's also the optics, which are bad of

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Speaker 2: team loses the game and kids in kids in the portal,

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Speaker 2: in the locker room, you know, he tweets it or

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Speaker 2: even teams playing a game, kids not playing and he

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Speaker 2: and now he's in the portal despite the fact that

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Speaker 2: like his team is still playing back.

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Speaker 1: It's just it's just needlessly awkward to have.

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Speaker 4: Totally and theoretically, like I get why, it's actually good

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Speaker 4: for those schools and good for the game of Like

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Speaker 4: you know, last year I was talking to Todd Golden

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Speaker 4: and Jonathan Spear and the Florida staff about a guard

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Speaker 4: that I was interested in them, and they're like, we

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Speaker 4: can't know if we're interested because we haven't finished our

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Speaker 4: season yet and we're in the final four.

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Speaker 3: We don't know who gonn say.

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Speaker 4: It's like, I get why it's fair, but here's why

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Speaker 4: it'll ultimately be ineffective because the portal's portaling, whether it's

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Speaker 4: the portal's open or not.

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Speaker 3: What we saw last year is like when guys.

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Speaker 4: The portals open yet, the tweet on Tipton or Goodman

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Speaker 4: would be so and such player intends to enter the

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Speaker 4: transfer portal. Right, Basically their name is not in the portal,

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Speaker 4: but they are telling the world I will be giving a.

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Speaker 3: Moment it opens, and you can start recruiting me. So

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Speaker 3: what does that mean?

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Speaker 4: It makes my job substantially harder because from mid March

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Speaker 4: through mid April, players when their season ends. If your

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Speaker 4: season ends on March fifteen, you're not going to sit

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Speaker 4: on your hands until mid April. You're gonna make an announcement.

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Speaker 4: I intend to enter the portal, and you want your

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Speaker 4: agent to tell you who's interested.

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Speaker 3: So schools whose teams have finished playing and players who

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Speaker 3: have finish playing, who announce their attention enter the portal.

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Speaker 1: Portal.

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Speaker 4: There will still be communication going on. It's just going

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Speaker 4: to be through third parties. So it just makes it

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Speaker 4: more complicated.

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Speaker 2: But hold on, let me, let me, let me push

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Speaker 2: back on it for a second, and you tell me

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Speaker 2: what you think. So again, here's on the other side,

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Speaker 2: here's what allows us at our level. I can't speak

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Speaker 2: to the high major, but I do think that the

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Speaker 2: space it allows you to season is over take a breath,

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Speaker 2: exit meetings, Okay, because as you know, and like the

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Speaker 2: not so dirty secrets of the portal is not every

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Speaker 2: kid who gets in the portal wants to be in.

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Speaker 1: The portal, right, it's not just the player's choice.

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Speaker 2: And then there's always a portion of where I would

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Speaker 2: push back on you, which is which is the balance

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Speaker 2: has shifted to where the players have too much power.

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Speaker 2: I think it just do because they're not really firerable

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Speaker 2: in season unless you get super creative or the kid

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Speaker 2: opens the window for it. So it's like everybody wants

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Speaker 2: them to be employees, but they don't want them to

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Speaker 2: be fired. So that's that's limiting. But the point is

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Speaker 2: that again, at least our plan when we saw it

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Speaker 2: come out was great. Right where it gives us a

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Speaker 2: chance to if we make the tournament, awesome experience. If

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Speaker 2: we don't make the tournament, okay, if they get to

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Speaker 2: the spring break, awesome and they come back and now

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Speaker 2: we sit down, we do some exit meetings, we see

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Speaker 2: what's what, and we get where their head's at, we

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Speaker 2: get where our head's at, and then we can go

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Speaker 2: forward that way. When the portal does open, and I

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Speaker 2: will grant you all of this stuff will all the

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Speaker 2: moving and shaking will still be done, okay, but it's

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Speaker 2: not actually done until the portal opens. It allows you

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Speaker 2: to know, okay, when the portal opens, I know what

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna.

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Speaker 1: Need, and I know what I'm not gonna need. Make sure.

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Speaker 2: It allows you to make definitive decisions. It also basically

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Speaker 2: allows you if you have a guy in a one

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Speaker 2: year deal and I want to get to multi year

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Speaker 2: contracts in a second, it allows you kind of the

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Speaker 2: first right refusal for negotiations. Technically, yes, of course, they

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Speaker 2: can always go in the portal, but they're still you know,

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Speaker 2: make that they're still under contract and they're still you know,

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Speaker 2: working for you or working with you whatever.

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Speaker 1: Until the day.

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Speaker 2: So that gives you the first ability to negotiate with

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Speaker 2: them when no one else has that. Now, I'll tell

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Speaker 2: you how it benefits the players, and I think you

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Speaker 2: know this, which is all depends upon contracts and how

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Speaker 2: many months. But this gets them into April. It gets

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Speaker 2: them another check, right because many some of these contracts

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Speaker 2: are ten months, some are twelve months, okay, and based

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Speaker 2: upon when they start, when they end the second you

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Speaker 2: enter the portal, and again it's all based upon the contract.

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Speaker 2: But most people the second the end of the portal,

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Speaker 2: the money is done. And so now this allows them

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Speaker 2: to get one more paycheck, so it does actually benefit

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Speaker 2: the student athlete while also benefiting teams giving them the

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Speaker 2: first chance to negotiate.

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Speaker 4: Well, DoD if you know, not of my players around

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Speaker 4: twelve month contracts are online month contracts because I know

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Speaker 4: this business works and they'll get paid for it first.

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Speaker 3: But other players and bad agents are no agent.

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Speaker 4: Yes, they do lose money on the half of the

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Speaker 4: portal that they're out to, all them on cycles and

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Speaker 4: or ten on cycles. So I do agree with you

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Speaker 4: on that it gives them a chance to another paycheck.

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Speaker 3: That's great.

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Speaker 4: I do actually agree with what you're saying about the

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Speaker 4: opportunity to renegotiate and to if they're on one year

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Speaker 4: conference kind of gives a little bit of restricted free

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Speaker 4: agency action and I first right of refusal, and I

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Speaker 4: like it, And if that was actually what was going

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Speaker 4: to happen, I would say that this is an ideal system,

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Speaker 4: right because to me, like I've recruited players recently where

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Speaker 4: I'm explaining why our agency is the best in this

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Speaker 4: business by every single metric imaginable and my own opinion.

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Speaker 4: But they'll say, well, this other agent came and said,

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Speaker 4: you know, this school in the Big twelve has a

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Speaker 4: million for me already, And I'm like, all right, cool,

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Speaker 4: what's your point. I know that school too, well, you

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Speaker 4: got to bring me offers. If I'm not doing that,

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Speaker 4: I'm not calling teams mid season to offer a kid

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Speaker 4: on another team mid season.

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Speaker 3: I don't even mind. I'm the best in the world

379
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Speaker 3: when I do. I don't even.

380
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Speaker 4: Rawl some college kid with some offer. No, if you

381
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Speaker 4: hired me when the portal, let's get to work. I'm

382
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Speaker 4: gonnaets you pay. You're gonna get millions of dollars. But

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Speaker 4: if you want someone to you know, subvert the integrity

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Speaker 4: of the eco system we have.

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Speaker 3: And then go for it. But that's my point is done.

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Speaker 4: I would love at the end of the season if

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Speaker 4: we had like a two week three week period where

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Speaker 4: we're just renegotiating with their current schools before we decide

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Speaker 4: for entering the portal, because right now it's messy right

390
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Speaker 4: being talk to coaches well, gates are happening to see

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Speaker 4: if they're extending the deal, what it's going to be.

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Speaker 3: I would love if that was the case.

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Speaker 4: But the reality is, even with these new rules, the

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Speaker 4: net bell rings and the last game of the season, people

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Speaker 4: are going to be scrambling to recruit new players.

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Speaker 3: And it is all to the distinction between mid major

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Speaker 3: and high major.

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Speaker 4: Right there is like a trickle down you any portal,

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Speaker 4: you're not going to be as aggressive as some of

400
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Speaker 4: the high majors the first two weeks because you're gonna

401
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Speaker 4: have to wait for some of those kids who thought

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Speaker 4: they were going to high major to realize their phone

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Speaker 4: is not ringing from the SEC and I, oh, Green

404
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,399
Speaker 4: Bay call look great right now. So there is a

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Speaker 4: primary market, secondary market, tertiary market, and really that primary

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Speaker 4: high major.

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Speaker 3: Market that's going to happen.

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Speaker 4: Before the portal actually opens. But the last thing I'll

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Speaker 4: say on this point, we haven't gotten the point of wide.

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Speaker 4: It's oppressive, and it is by shortening the window of

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Speaker 4: forty five to thirty to fifteen days. Here's what effectively does.

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Speaker 4: It traps players in situations they can't get out of

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Speaker 4: where coaches can lie through their teeth and have no repercuptions.

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Speaker 3: Here's what that means.

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Speaker 4: In a forty five day So, first off, when people

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Speaker 4: saw that to a fifteen day portal window, some people

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Speaker 4: thought that meant to enter the portal and commit to

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Speaker 4: a school, and scientist school it all had happened in

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Speaker 4: fifteen days, that would be ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: No, it's just to put your name. But what happens

421
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Speaker 3: then is in a.

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Speaker 4: Forty five day window to put your name in even

423
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Speaker 4: a thirty day window, people are entering and committing to schools,

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Speaker 4: and then kids on those teams are saying, oh, I'm

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Speaker 4: the backup because they just got this guy.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not going to play it cool.

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Speaker 4: Let the end of the portal, right, it gives time

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Speaker 4: for players to see the moves.

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Speaker 1: You're explaining it very well to me.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so let me explain to people who may be

431
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Speaker 2: a little bit more lay person. Right, So again your assumption,

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Speaker 2: and I do believe this happens, which is, hey, you

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Speaker 2: come in, you meet like, hey, dude, we want you back.

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Speaker 1: All right, what's the role, what's the money? Right?

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Speaker 2: You talk about all those things, here's what we think,

436
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,440
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah blah, and then all of a sudden,

437
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 2: the coach starts recruiting other guys at your spot and

438
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Speaker 2: you're like, yo, now I want to get in the portal.

439
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:48,080
Speaker 2: And if the kid commits in the portal in day

440
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 2: fourteen or day fifteen, you're screwed. Can't get in the portal. Correct, understood, Okay.

441
00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,320
Speaker 2: But there's the other side to it, which is like

442
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 2: if it's open forty five days, and what happens with

443
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,199
Speaker 2: these guys is some guys will wait and see what's what,

444
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,200
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, somebody's got some money

445
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 2: left and you're a day forty, you know, and you

446
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 2: had planned on having that kid back, but he's not

447
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 2: on campus or whatever, and he's like, I don't know.

448
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:22,439
Speaker 1: Then he's like, you know what I.

449
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,880
Speaker 2: Can get twenty grand more, thirty grand more, forty grand more,

450
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,880
Speaker 2: five grand more, or just a better situation they can

451
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 2: leave like it is a game of cat mouse.

452
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 1: And I don't know.

453
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,120
Speaker 2: I mean, I just don't know if there's a perfect system.

454
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 2: And I think you're paying the picture of all of

455
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 2: us being these nefarious dudes who who work behind the

456
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 2: back of players, And I just again, I think that

457
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 2: one of the things, the good things that money brings

458
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 2: is you have to be honest with somebody with their role,

459
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 2: because you're gonna be honest with them with their role

460
00:22:58,560 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 2: based upon how much money they're making.

461
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 1: Right, So I mean, again.

462
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,439
Speaker 2: What do you do if you want a kid to stay,

463
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,360
Speaker 2: you offer him what he's making or a little bit

464
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 2: more if you're like, we'd like.

465
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 1: You to stay.

466
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 2: But if you really want to say, now you're going

467
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 2: way up in money, and if you want them to leave,

468
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 2: you go, hey, dude, we love you, but there's no

469
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 2: money for you next year. Do whatever you want, and

470
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 2: then they go into the portal like it's really that simple, right.

471
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 2: So I just I understand what you're saying, but I

472
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 2: think you're guarding against a very small percentage because most

473
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 2: teams prefer to keep their guys. If they offer to

474
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 2: keep their guys, they are important, and you can tell

475
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 2: where you fall in the kind of chain of command

476
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 2: or in the total pool based on how much money

477
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,439
Speaker 2: you're making anyway, And so once you re sign your

478
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 2: starting small forward and you bump them up to where

479
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,119
Speaker 2: he's one of your top pay guys, you're not going

480
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 2: to bring in somebody off the street.

481
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 1: It's not it's the reality of it.

482
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 2: Plus, those kids aren't going to go like, well, you

483
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 2: already have a kid there at my spot. Unless you're

484
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 2: gonna pay me two x of what he's making, then

485
00:23:58,480 --> 00:23:59,360
Speaker 2: I know I'll play.

486
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 3: Well, no, everything.

487
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 4: I rarely I think I know everything about this business.

488
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 4: And I think twice already on this, on this in

489
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 4: this episode, you brought points that are maybe rethink points,

490
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 4: and I think you are making good points here that

491
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 4: I always think from the player perspective.

492
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, if you are, you're gonna screw my guy.

493
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 3: And honestly, it's not happening. My guys. Is my guys

494
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 3: that have leverage because they got meat.

495
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 4: So no one's screwing my guys because I can drop

496
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 4: the hammer on you any fucking day, excuse my language. Yeah,

497
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 4: but it's really the kids who don't have an agency

498
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 4: like we who are trusting dear coach, and coaches like, oh, well,

499
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 4: here's twenty five thousand dollars.

500
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 3: Because you're you know, we love you. This is the

501
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 3: most we got. And then he's like, oh, great coach.

502
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 4: And then they go and bring a guy this position

503
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 4: for one hundred thousand dollars two weeks later and he

504
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 4: realizes he's a back up.

505
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 3: It's nothing you do. But it is if that kid

506
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 3: that I worry about.

507
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 4: But it is a small percentage though the Torres says,

508
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 4: we save one life, you.

509
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 3: Save the world. So you know, I'm worried about each

510
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 3: of these kids, even if they're not my clients. I'm worried.

511
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 4: Again, My clients are good, they're protected, they got they

512
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 4: got a killer swam behind them. But okay, but to

513
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 4: your point, you're right. It does protect coaches in a

514
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 4: way because you we.

515
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: Got to have some level of protection and.

516
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 3: You experienced this firsthand.

517
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 4: Right, this happens where And I'll say, I try with

518
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 4: my clients because I care about the coaches.

519
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 3: I try to be that layer of protection.

520
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 4: Like I had a guy this year who signed a

521
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 4: seven figure deal and then and it was living in

522
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 4: a dream and then a few weeks later at school

523
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 4: back channel to them, Hey, we've got more seven more

524
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,199
Speaker 4: seven figures plus a few more sixes. I want to

525
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 4: look at this, And I said, no, dude, you committed

526
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 4: to the school. They give me millions of dollars. There

527
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 4: are over a million dollars they're building. This coach is

528
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 4: building his season around you, and you're going to repay

529
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 4: him by saying I'm going to screw you over because

530
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 4: someone offered me an ACTU.

531
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 3: One hundred grand. No, we're not doing that. I'm not

532
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 3: doing that. We committed this person. We're stick to our commitment.

533
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 4: I think it's okay for a guy to flip a commitment,

534
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 4: and there are material changes in circumstances if they've been

535
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 4: lied to, right they they say, hey, you're gonna be

536
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 4: the high paid guard on the team, and the next

537
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 4: thing you know to is later they pay another guard more. Well,

538
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 4: you lied, so now I get to change. But if

539
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 4: the school you commit to upholds everything that they've said

540
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 4: and you just want more money elsewhere, you don't get

541
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 4: the flipic commitment.

542
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 3: But in the NBA, we have guardrails to prevent to

543
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 3: work through these things.

544
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 4: Right in the NBA, even someone in FEBA as well,

545
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 4: Like there's systems to protect against.

546
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 3: And this goes back to what we're talking about before

547
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 3: the employees.

548
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 4: You're saying no one wants Everyone wants to be employees,

549
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 4: but no one wants to be get fired mid season.

550
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 4: I've had guys in the NBA get fired mid season

551
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 4: who are employees, and that's fine.

552
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 3: And I on other guys who signed guaranteed contracts because

553
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 3: they have more leverage and they can't be fire mid season.

554
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 4: So in any situation where there's employees, there's some employees

555
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,120
Speaker 4: who can be fire mid season and others who can't,

556
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 4: and that becomes part of the problem. Now that'll be

557
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 4: even more complicated here because you're in a semester, you're

558
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 4: at school. You know what, if they can sign as

559
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 4: a semester, why not you can cut as a semester.

560
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 4: If that's the system we're creating, I'm cool with that.

561
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 4: We just need a freaking system. And when I said

562
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 4: we need a freaking system, a lot of people are

563
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 4: getting mad and yelling at the win. They're yelling off

564
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 4: into the void, They're yelling at God. We need a system.

565
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 4: Who's in charge of it, who's gonna make the systems.

566
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: We have a system.

567
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 2: I'm with you, like I just we have a system.

568
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 1: Just deal with it.

569
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 2: You know, build a team, do the best you can,

570
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 2: and you know you're gonna hit some, you're gonna miss some,

571
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 2: and you try and have a try to have a

572
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 2: good hit rate.

573
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: And you know our thing is, hey, we.

574
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 2: Were not We're probably not gonna play the most, but

575
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 2: you're gonna get every penny.

576
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 1: We promise it.

577
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 2: And you know this is a this is a league

578
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 2: where you get great opportunity. Okay, that brings me to

579
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 2: There's a couple of things. The Some have a loyalty contract,

580
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 2: some have just a multi year contract, especially some of

581
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:01,880
Speaker 2: the top end of twenty twenty six high school seniors

582
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 2: I believe are signing multi year deals. And the idea

583
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 2: behind it for the high major is nobody wants to

584
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 2: develop a player for somebody else, Like, yeah, hey, I

585
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 2: worked with him all year long as a red shirt

586
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 2: or as a freshman. Only two now when he's really

587
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 2: ready to play, Now he's playing for somebody else, Why

588
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 2: would I pay him a bunch of money. So this

589
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,239
Speaker 2: is really more the high end freshmen who are on

590
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 2: that boardline of will they play, will they read shirt.

591
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 2: Whatever doesn't matter. They're staying in the program. And we're

592
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,199
Speaker 2: not only investing you in your one, we're investing you

593
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 2: in year two. Here's the question from the coach to

594
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 2: the agent, which is will they hold up?

595
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: Because in order to have a second year, you got

596
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: to have a buy out.

597
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 2: And if the kid doesn't like it, or doesn't like

598
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 2: how he's being developed or like, what the Because the

599
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 2: problem with it is, as you know, teams change, coaches

600
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 2: change assistant coaches will change out a lot from year

601
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 2: to year. But teams, if you sign a two year deal,

602
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 2: you may have eight nine new teammates. The second year

603
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 2: you may not like it. So in order to get

604
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 2: out of that second year, there has to be some

605
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 2: sort of buyout. Do you think the second year holds

606
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 2: not just in holding players there, but in standing up

607
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 2: in court in terms of the buyout?

608
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 4: Absolutely, the question becomes as the school, I want to pursue.

609
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 2: It in court, right, and and I'll just tell you, okay,

610
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 2: so this is a real discussion, right, is that most

611
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 2: athletic directors don't want to because they think it makes

612
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 2: them look bad and no one will want to go

613
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 2: to your school. My perspective on it is that's bullshit. Okay,

614
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 2: kids want to go where they're gonna they're not gonna

615
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: go like, well, you know, you pursued Jimmy, who you

616
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 2: wanted to head under contract, and now you're pursuing me

617
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 2: and giving They're still gonna make their decision based upon themselves,

618
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 2: not what you did with Jimmy.

619
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah, I agree that I'm

620
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 3: at the same thought or our clients have. I'm not

621
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 3: paying commissions and.

622
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 4: Then it's like, I'm not going to sue you even

623
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 4: though you owe me, you know, twenty thousand dollars, because

624
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 4: I don't want my agency to have headlines that we're

625
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 4: suing a.

626
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 3: Player and this doesn't look good, right.

627
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: But I ended that You're right, Yes, it's the same thing.

628
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 4: It's like it's it's the people are thinking about what's

629
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 4: best for them, not what happened to somebody else.

630
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 3: It's a fair point.

631
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 4: I think I'm as soft and I don't like to

632
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 4: get into conflict with players.

633
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 3: But anyway, it's either here. You know.

634
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 4: What I want to say about the specific instance you've

635
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 4: discussed of multiyear conflicts and buyouts is there's a distinction

636
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 4: that's really really important that gets missed the nuance of

637
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 4: this distinction when we're having internet discourse about these these

638
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 4: deals like the kid at Washington State or the quarterback

639
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 4: in Tennessee, these biop deals. If a kid and or

640
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 4: his representation and or understand on the front end that

641
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 4: they are signing a contract with a buyo, and they

642
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 4: representation has an opportunity to read that contract and they

643
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 4: agree to it, and.

644
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 3: They are responsible for upholding everything in that contract.

645
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 4: Okay, if the contract says it's one hundred thousand dollars

646
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 4: and if you transfer, you owe us twenty million dollars,

647
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 4: and the representation reason tells them get to sign it. Yeah,

648
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 4: they're not leaving unless they pay the twenty million dollars.

649
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 4: And that's fair because that's why you.

650
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 3: High representation, that's why they negotiate. You read the contract,

651
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 3: you sign it. Now.

652
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 4: My problem is when guys don't have good representation, or

653
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 4: when coaches tell guys not to have a nation and

654
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 4: they sneak these clauses in and kids don't know what

655
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 4: they're signing.

656
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 3: Their nineteen twenty twenty one year old kids. They're trusting

657
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 3: their coach. They might not have an agent. They don't

658
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 3: know what they're signing. They only find out later that

659
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 3: there was a buyout. So I'll give you an example.

660
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 3: I have a player at an SEC school and.

661
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 4: We agree to a number, a good six figure number,

662
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 4: mid six stigures, and I get the contract and I

663
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 4: read it and it says that if he were to

664
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 4: enter the transfer portal next year, there's a callback of fifty.

665
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 3: Percent of this year's runnings. Okay, so that's the same thing,

666
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 3: five hundred thousand dollars.

667
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 4: See, and here's the portal. Then they have to pay

668
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 4: back two fifty from last year. This isn't the multi

669
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 4: year deal. This is a one year deal that basically

670
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 4: prevents it from leaving.

671
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 3: Us get to pay back. I read the fine friends

672
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 3: who was.

673
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 4: Kind of convoluted, and I went back to that coach

674
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 4: and I said, if you don't tell your collective to

675
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 4: fix this right now, I'm never answering your calls again.

676
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 3: I'm never sading a player to your school. This is corrupt,

677
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 3: and they fix it.

678
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 4: But there's other players at that SEC school that don't

679
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 4: realize they didn't have me as an agent. They don't

680
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 4: know that they transfer, they have to pay back half

681
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 4: the money. That's where it's wrong. That's where it's on

682
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 4: after the hole. That's where it's exploitative. But as long

683
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 4: as you have a representative that's reading that contract and says, hey,

684
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 4: it's this many years and if you leave, it's this

685
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 4: amount of money, and we all agree. Look, I have

686
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 4: a kid, and I'm I'm rambling here, but like I

687
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 4: had a kid in Europe recently who was making like

688
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 4: thirty thousands a European agent. You're making like thirty thousand

689
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 4: dollars a year with a three hundred thousand dollars Vio

690
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 4: got a seven bigger deal in the States.

691
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 3: To pay the buyout right, they were paying to develop him. Yeah,

692
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 3: the salary was thirty thous they're paying to develop, and

693
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 3: they development to the point that it's worth a lot of.

694
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 4: Money to an acc school rate. Okay, So there are

695
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 4: insts or bots are fair. There are instances where for

696
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 4: is okay, I'll happily do a multi year deal with

697
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 4: a big buyout because they're giving you a platform, you're developing,

698
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 4: and you're investing in.

699
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 3: I'm great with that.

700
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 4: If I was a low major, It's funny people were

701
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 4: acting like these like multi year deals in buyouts are

702
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 4: like innovative. Four years ago when NIL started, I was

703
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 4: telling you, guys, look at Europe.

704
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 3: Look how they build their things, Look how they build

705
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 3: their programs.

706
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 4: He signed young eighteen year olds to four year deals

707
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 4: with increasing pay and a massive buyout. If you develop them,

708
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 4: and that's how you replenish your coffers and you build

709
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:44,959
Speaker 4: a program.

710
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 3: And I was running a low major program. That's what

711
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 3: I would do if I was outside.

712
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 4: A few eighteen year olds paying a little over market

713
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 4: value with a big buyout, develop them and then bless

714
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 4: them when they move on.

715
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 3: It's not that crazy. We've been doing it in Europe

716
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 3: for soccer or basketball for decades, and that's my piece.

717
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,479
Speaker 2: Okay, let me ask you. We talked about Europe. Okay,

718
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 2: what about loaning players? And I bring it up because

719
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 2: at our level, right you sit there and go, hey,

720
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 2: there's a young guy who won't play for two years there,

721
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 2: but if he comes to us, he will. And again

722
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 2: this goes back hand in hand with the three four

723
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 2: year contract idea.

724
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: To even the big boys.

725
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 2: You bring in a player, but you're like, hey, I

726
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 2: want him to play right away, but I want to

727
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 2: maintain his rights at the end. Of the year and

728
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 2: you can handpick who and where he plays for. Right,

729
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 2: it's something that they do. Everybody does in Europe. Right,

730
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 2: you pick the country and whether it's Red Star or partisan.

731
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 2: They own the rights to all the best young players,

732
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 2: and then they loan them out to whatever division wants

733
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 2: to use them as well as their junior team. Right

734
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 2: they want they're ready for first division. They come up

735
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 2: to first division or second division or whatever. How far

736
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 2: from that are we.

737
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 4: I'm excited for this to happen. This is gonna be

738
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 4: perfect when it's already. There have been some situations where

739
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 4: we already are trying to attempt something like this, where

740
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 4: it's like, oh.

741
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 2: I'm a gentleman's agreement.

742
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm a major head coach. My assistant just got

743
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 4: this a major job. Let's place him here to develop him,

744
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 4: and he's gonna send him this way. But contractually it's

745
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 4: so hard to pull off safely because you can send

746
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 4: that kid there and then they can still just be like,

747
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 4: all right, thanks for the money, I'm gonna go wherever

748
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 4: I want. It's so hard to tie that in contractually,

749
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 4: and I'm my team is working on ways to figure

750
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 4: this out, but it's gonna be easiest when there's a

751
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 4: geographic similarity to contracts and be tied to geography. Money

752
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 4: can come to state state state school systems. Like, there's

753
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 4: a way to pull it off, and we're gonna figure

754
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 4: it out. And I'm excited for that day because it's

755
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 4: gonna be good for the game. You can get your

756
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 4: University of Wisconsin degree, you can stay within the system.

757
00:35:58,640 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 3: The credits are all gonna transfer.

758
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 4: You gonna get your money that you get to develop

759
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 4: and he is to play on the court and Frank Convincy.

760
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 4: I talked to my boyfriend the other day and he

761
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 4: said he's like, yeah, I was coming out today.

762
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 3: I would have got on Wisconsin.

763
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 4: I would have got in Green mayor Milwaukee for two

764
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 4: years and transfer of Wisconsin and then player of the year.

765
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 3: That's true.

766
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:20,439
Speaker 2: Okay, last one do you when you sign a player? Okay, Now,

767
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 2: I'm only doing this because media broadcasting agents have these

768
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 2: claws in the contract. I don't know about basketball agents

769
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 2: and specifically an il agents whether or not whether or

770
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 2: not they have it, which is this, if I get

771
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 2: you a job at a at a school, power for school. Okay,

772
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 2: Dan Pooman and Weave get you this job. Okay, at

773
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 2: the end of the year, you choose to leave, they

774
00:36:55,480 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 2: fire you, but you stay at whatever power for school.

775
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: Do you still get your percentage?

776
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 2: And some agents have a deal where no matter where

777
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 2: you go your next contract, they get a piece of

778
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 2: more often when you stay than if it's a new job,

779
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 2: but they still retain your rights. How long do you

780
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 2: retain the rights to the player contractually even after they

781
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 2: fire you.

782
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 4: This is a great question, and we're dealing with this

783
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 4: right now. This is a big topic of discussion in

784
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,320
Speaker 4: our office. Is there's a player who wants to sign

785
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 4: with us, who wants us to forfeit our renewal rights

786
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 4: as part of signing, which I don't think is fair.

787
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 4: I think I want to be paid for work I do. Right,

788
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 4: So I get you to a school, and I find

789
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 4: the school and negotiate the deal. I identify the school,

790
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 4: I guide you there, and you get there and you

791
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 4: play really well.

792
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 3: You can't come to me and be like, hey, thanks

793
00:37:59,200 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 3: for all your hard work.

794
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 4: I'm going to stay here for two more years, but

795
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 4: I'm going to fire you and not.

796
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 3: Paying for the work you already did to me.

797
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 4: If I'm identifying opportunity to bring you the opportunity to

798
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 4: negotiating the opportunity to get it either we are owed

799
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 4: to our commission for the extent of the time that

800
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 4: you have the opportunity at that place. Right, it's renewals, right,

801
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 4: And that's that's the big crops of the conversation here

802
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 4: is like, yeah, again, if I send someone to let's say,

803
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:26,439
Speaker 4: you wouldn't see Wilmington for fifty K, and they're fresh

804
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 4: and they do great, and then the next year if

805
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 4: you moment I was playing four hundred, they don't get to.

806
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 3: Fire me and say, hey, thanks, thanks for bring the opportunity.

807
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 4: I'm going to keep my you know, Okay, that I

808
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 4: think we can all agree on.

809
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 3: But then here's where it gets complicated. Now on the

810
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 3: other end of.

811
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 2: The spectrum, we can, but there's also okay, and you've

812
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 2: experienced this. You get a guy a deal, he then

813
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 2: fires you shortly thereafter, and then they get to the

814
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 2: point to where they want to stay and get renewed

815
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 2: or whatever.

816
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: And I just again, I think.

817
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 3: When he fighters me, what matters. I've brought you that

818
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 3: opportunity with that program, and I hand.

819
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 5: Picked is that in your contract renewals and exceptions Okay,

820
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 5: if it's in the again, I'm I'm with you, I

821
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 5: would do the I view it as the exact same

822
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,320
Speaker 5: thing as you were talking about UH coaches and clauses

823
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,879
Speaker 5: in the contract, and if your agent has actually read

824
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 5: it right like you should, this is probably like a

825
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 5: PSA to.

826
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 2: To any of the players, which is, hey, even if

827
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 2: you any contract you signed, you should have a lawyer

828
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 2: look it over, even if it's the contract with a

829
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 2: lawyer to represent you in NIL or with Weave that

830
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,800
Speaker 2: has lawyers to represent you in NIL, have a third

831
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 2: party look at the contract because you don't know what

832
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 2: contract law is. A contract lawyer does look at it. Again,

833
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 2: if it's important to you. Now you're being a professional.

834
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 2: You got to do professional things. What I where I

835
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 2: would meet you with this new player, which is again,

836
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 2: if I'm telling the kid, hey, if you really want

837
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 2: to work with Weave but you don't want to give

838
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,879
Speaker 2: up the whatever centers you're charging, that too is negotiable, right,

839
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 2: Everything is negotiable.

840
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: Again.

841
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 2: You may not want to come down off your number

842
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 2: and they may not want to pay it, and that's okay.

843
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:11,720
Speaker 1: We shake hands and we go our separate ways.

844
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 2: But my thing is again, if it's in the contract,

845
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 2: you gotta live up the contract.

846
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: That's the big thing.

847
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 2: That's the big frustrating thing for coaches, and for coaches especially,

848
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 2: it's like, hey, we're all held to our contracts and

849
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 2: yet you know, administrators don't want to pursue things on

850
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 2: contracts or we have claws and contracts.

851
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,280
Speaker 1: Again, if we're gonna be adults and we're gonna.

852
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:37,399
Speaker 2: It's it's some sort of quasi employment and you're gonna

853
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,720
Speaker 2: be a professional, it's got to be held in professional manner.

854
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 2: And that includes the relationship between agent and player. If

855
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 2: you're gonna do a handshake deal that that's on you

856
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 2: as an agent, or that's on you as a player.

857
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 2: But if you're gonna do actual contract, whatever is in

858
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 2: that contract, you have to abide by or there's going

859
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 2: to be a clause for if you break that contract,

860
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 2: a fee you have to pay or a portion of

861
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 2: the feed yet paid for a period of time.

862
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

863
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, readouts in your contract and understand senior contract. And

864
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 4: we tried with our contracts to be as fair as possible.

865
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 4: Like for us again, it's like I don't do contracts

866
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 4: like some agents do.

867
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 3: Have like I own your rights for four years, and even.

868
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 4: If you fired me in the year one, you have

869
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 4: to pay me for three years of commissions.

870
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 3: That some certain I'm not doing that.

871
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 4: But the hardest situation, and trying to be ethical, there's

872
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 4: always blind spots.

873
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 3: The hardest situations I've been in is when you work

874
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 3: really hard.

875
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 4: To get some of that initial opportunity and you bust

876
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 4: your butt for a deal for no money, and then

877
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 4: they blow up and then they're like, hey, thanks for

878
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 4: doing the hard work. Now I'm hitting the portal and

879
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 4: I'm not paying you anything. It's like I had a

880
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 4: kid two years ago. I knew this kid was kind

881
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 4: of had some character issues. Don't come on anyway. Got

882
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 4: him as fresh.

883
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 3: Than your deal.

884
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 4: He barely played, coach hated him, had all these problems.

885
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 4: The next portal was a nightmare. Everyone knew this guy

886
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 4: character issues. But I found on the spot for sixty

887
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 4: thousand dollars, who was willing to give him a chance,

888
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,439
Speaker 4: who I went to bat with the coach who worked

889
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 4: it out. I talked to this kid all season and

890
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 4: was in his corner, and my commission was very small,

891
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 4: and he blows up at this place making sixty k

892
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 4: and then fires me.

893
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 3: And enters the portal with someone else that makes over a.

894
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 4: Million dollars this year, and I'm like, I did two

895
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 4: years of work to make close to nothing was in

896
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 4: your corner, and then when you hit it big, Now

897
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,760
Speaker 4: I lost my opportunity to capture them on my work.

898
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 3: And that's part of the game. And it's like, I

899
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 3: accept it.

900
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 4: I should have known the kid had character issues and

901
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 4: he's gonna probably screw me at some point. I thought

902
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 4: I could help mentor him and get him to a

903
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 4: better place. But like, those are the hard ones. And

904
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 4: that's why it's like people, no one wants to care

905
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 4: about agents rights. No one cares about me and my

906
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 4: family and my staff who were working. I'm working fifteen

907
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 4: hour days every single day now till June. I get

908
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 4: Shabbat off for Kusham. We have a few hours of Shabbat.

909
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 4: Other than that, I'm working fifteen hour days. When I

910
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,720
Speaker 4: think fifteen hour days, I mean I schedule fifteen minutes

911
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 4: when I have to use the bathroom every day.

912
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:07,479
Speaker 3: I can't just be like, oh, I got these baths.

913
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 4: No, every moment of every one of my days, the

914
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 4: schedule from now until June, I'm busting my butt for

915
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 4: my staff and my and my and my clients. No

916
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 4: one cares about my rights. No one cared for my commission,

917
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 4: No one cared to my family. No one cares that

918
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 4: I'm guys with my staff with kids, and they're out

919
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 4: here grinding their tail off to support these these athletes

920
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 4: and trying to guide them, help the better people, help

921
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 4: them in better lives, help them find success and joy

922
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 4: in basketball. So yeah, when so the kid fires us

923
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 4: right before the portally loses a six figure commission, no

924
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,359
Speaker 4: one's crying about it. So I don't expect anyone to care.

925
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 4: But my point is that like we are providing in service,

926
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 4: we areguing a job. We are honest and have integrity

927
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,399
Speaker 4: what we do, and like sometimes we deserve to get

928
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,760
Speaker 4: paid for that, and sometimes that means extensions and renewals.

929
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 4: When I got to an opportunity and you re up

930
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 4: with that school, that you're not going to stab me in.

931
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: The back, No, listen.

932
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 2: I think it's it's one of the things which is

933
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 2: brutally unfair. I think college basketball coaches and NIL agents

934
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 2: both were cast in this shat like we're basically slightly

935
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 2: above Amiba, slightly below that of used car salesman, and

936
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 2: it's like hold on now, you know, and people will

937
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 2: question your fees again. If I was a player, I

938
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 2: would negotiate the fee. Everything again is negotiable. But whatever

939
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,439
Speaker 2: the fee is is because it's like again, people don't

940
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 2: understand that guys can walk.

941
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: From agents, right, they just do. You know.

942
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 2: It's like the old and you know this from NBA

943
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 2: guys that you've had, right, the last thing you want

944
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 2: is a second round pick, right, because you bust your ass.

945
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 2: And sometimes the second round pick is you had favors

946
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 2: to get guys workouts, and it's sort of a favor

947
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 2: to get him drafted. Then he get him drafted, and

948
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 2: then he immediately fires you because he thinks he was

949
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 2: a late first round pick, you know, and he's a

950
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 2: sackon round and he's really a secon round pick where

951
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 2: he goes undraft or whatever, and it's your fault, Like, no,

952
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 2: it's not my fault. I got you seventeen workouts and

953
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 2: I personally got you drafted in the second round, and

954
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 2: then you summarily fired me only to play in the NBA.

955
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,359
Speaker 2: Stick in the NBA, hire a new agent, and then

956
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 2: he ends up getting all the glory with them. I'm

957
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 2: speaking your language, am I not?

958
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: Oh?

959
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 4: I had a player once who had he was with

960
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 4: another agent, had a zero workhouse. I told him sign

961
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,760
Speaker 4: with me for ten days, so I'll get you some workhouse.

962
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 4: I end up getting five workhouts and I got a

963
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 4: promise from one of those teams to draft him. They

964
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 4: draft him in the second round, guaranteed the contract, and

965
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 4: then he fires me because his homie sees from back

966
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 4: in the day, got a job with the agency that

967
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 4: he fired in the first place to come with me.

968
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 4: I did such a good job that I got him

969
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 4: aud NBA roster became so valuable as his friend could

970
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 4: get a.

971
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 3: Job off his name, and I was like, you know what.

972
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 4: I went for three months, I got the commission on

973
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 4: a two year contract, and God blessed him.

974
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 3: That was his only contract he got.

975
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 4: But but yeah, sometimes you do such a good job

976
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 4: getting a guy in the draft that their friends get

977
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 4: jobs and take them from you.

978
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 3: Sometimes, yeah, you think that.

979
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:10,879
Speaker 4: You did an amazing job getting a guy a two way,

980
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 4: and they think that they should have they should have

981
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 4: gotten the first round pick. Sometimes you do such a

982
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 4: good job of the guy and million dollars and.

983
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 3: They think they should get two and you know when

984
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 3: that happens. But you know what happened to me.

985
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 4: Also this week, I got a text out of the blue,

986
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 4: out of the blue, A good player, a good college player.

987
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 3: Hey, Dan, I don't know.

988
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: If you know me.

989
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 3: I'm blank, Yes, I know you.

990
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 4: I talked to this player in this player who was

991
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 4: my teammate and Juco and my teammate now and I

992
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:41,879
Speaker 4: need a new agent, and they both said that you're

993
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 4: the best and you change their life. And I was

994
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 4: wondering you could be open to working with me. I

995
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 4: got that text and I sent it to my staff.

996
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 4: I was like, this is why we do it.

997
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 3: The fact that we're not asking guys to recruit for us.

998
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 4: They're so happy with the experience of having the schools

999
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 4: we pick with them, and they're telling their team mates, Hey,

1000
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 4: you got to talk to my god Dan, he's the best.

1001
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 4: That gives me strength, that's looking tooment through the fifteen

1002
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 4: hour days. When I see my clients with families and

1003
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 4: kids and they're opening retirement accounts in college, saving these

1004
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 4: counts with their kids.

1005
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 3: We're doing this thing. That's what keeps me in it.

1006
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 3: And yes, getting.

1007
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 4: Fired is part of the job, and I still it's

1008
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 4: like emotionally artous.

1009
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 3: When it happens, I'm still like, what did I do wrong?

1010
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 1: Well?

1011
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 3: I thought this person loved me. I thought they're my family.

1012
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 3: But it happens.

1013
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 4: Just like guys enter the transfer portal, they enter the

1014
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 4: Asian portal, it happens accepted. I've gotten, I've gotten a

1015
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 4: little thicker skinned through my years doing this. I've gotten

1016
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 4: adult of it. But I'm never by my heart. I'm

1017
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 4: not eating the grnched. My heart will never be fully parted.

1018
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 4: And I still love these people that I work with,

1019
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 4: and it's still hurts.

1020
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 2: It's honestly, it's no different than as a coach, where

1021
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 2: you sign a kid and you truly believe in the

1022
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 2: kid and you tell the kid how it's going to be.

1023
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 1: It's gonna be up and down.

1024
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 2: It's early your first year, your freshman, or it's the

1025
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 2: first year of Vision one or whatever, like it's a

1026
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 2: long process. S no coach, I'm in, you know, I'm whatever.

1027
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 2: And then and of the year they come in and

1028
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 2: you're talking about renewing, they're like, yeah, I'm an end

1029
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 2: of the portal. It's the same thing, like I still

1030
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 2: love you, I greatly disagree with what you're doing, and yeah,

1031
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 2: and then you and then you watch him play for

1032
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 2: other people, and you're like, should I cheer for this kid?

1033
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: Should I not cheer for this kid? I really like him? Yeah.

1034
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 4: So I've had guys that I did their just ham

1035
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 4: multiple times for I did their college transfer. Yeah, and

1036
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 4: then blow up and go with a big NBA agency,

1037
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 4: And I'm watching him at the draft and I'm like, like,

1038
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:39,359
Speaker 4: there's one specific guy who got drafted in the first

1039
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 4: round two years ago where he really wanted to go

1040
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 4: to another school and I convinced him to go to

1041
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 4: this school and he got drafted in the first off.

1042
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,359
Speaker 4: So I'm watching the draft, I'm like, yeah, I told

1043
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 4: you where to go to school. I told you that.

1044
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I doesn't know your Dan knows.

1045
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 4: But then I'm seeing another agent I five him and

1046
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 4: cry and I'm like, no, I grind him with him

1047
00:48:58,120 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 4: to get here.

1048
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 3: You just got to go to the I did the

1049
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:01,240
Speaker 3: hard work.

1050
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 1: But it's okay, no question, no question.

1051
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 4: I'm still happy for them, And I still get to

1052
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 4: tell recruits that I've had more negotiating, more transfers who

1053
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 4: led your draft picks than anybody else died multiple There's

1054
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 4: many transfers that I was behind who are now in

1055
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 4: the NBA that I said.

1056
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 3: I'll leave you on one great quote. I use this

1057
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 3: all the time. Chris Beard says to.

1058
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 4: Me when you were at the Final Four with my Airbnb.

1059
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 4: He says, damn, how many NBA players are there in

1060
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 4: the transfer portal?

1061
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 3: I said, no, I don't know, maybe fives.

1062
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 4: I said, Dan, there's none because if they were NBA players, they'd.

1063
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 1: Be they'd be in the NBA.

1064
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:40,479
Speaker 3: Not the transfer portal.

1065
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 4: They said they could become a NBA players if you

1066
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 4: use the portal or the right place you can develop into.

1067
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 3: But if you're an NBA player, you'd be in the draft.

1068
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 3: We're going to be in the portal. So when I

1069
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 3: look at my track record, I've.

1070
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 4: Had like a lot of dudes to get drafted after

1071
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,800
Speaker 4: I did their transfer. Like, I'm really proud of that work.

1072
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 4: But like I said, sometimes you such a good job that.

1073
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 3: Rich Paul falls and hook and you know, someday, someday

1074
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 3: people will say that about me. But for now, you know,

1075
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:09,760
Speaker 3: I run college.

1076
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 4: He runs the NBA is what it is, and we'll

1077
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 4: you know, I'm fine with that for now.

1078
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 3: For now.

1079
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 2: Maybe next time we'll talk about his podcast and the

1080
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 2: trades that he proposed involving players around his clients and

1081
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 2: how I pissed pretty much everybody off.

1082
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 1: But that's a different time for a different story.

1083
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 2: In the meantime, it's the only place you can get

1084
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 2: a real conversation between the biggest nil agent and college

1085
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 2: basketball and a sitting di Vision one men's head basketball coach.

1086
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 2: He's the best and shabatchalom. Thanks for joining me. Talk

1087
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 2: to you next week. All right, that's it for this

1088
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 2: edition of All Ball in Doug Gottlieb Show. Feet Remember

1089
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 2: if you're getting the new Doug Gottlieb Show as we

1090
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:59,919
Speaker 2: continue to morph inform these things, I think you'll love

1091
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 2: the content. Remember this is about content, it's not about

1092
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 2: any one thing. We tell stories with so many of

1093
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,360
Speaker 2: our college basketball friends and coaches, and we do the

1094
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 2: same thing and we'll update you on stories of the

1095
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:15,320
Speaker 2: week with some of my guests weekly here on the pod.

1096
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 2: So just keep it here in the feed, make sure

1097
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 2: you keep it in your queue, tell your friends that

1098
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 2: put it in your queue, and we truly appreciate you

1099
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:22,879
Speaker 2: listening and sticking with us.

1100
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, By the way.

1101
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,280
Speaker 2: Think of the Phoenix as we travel to Youngstown, Ohio,

1102
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 2: take on the Penguins on Thursday, and take on the

1103
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 2: defending Horizon League Conference and tournament champion Colonials on Saturday.

1104
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 2: Never hurts to have just an extra prayer and an

1105
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:40,760
Speaker 2: extra thought on our side.

1106
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:42,800
Speaker 1: We appreciate you listening. I'm Doug out leave. This is

1107
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:43,160
Speaker 1: all ball.