1 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg p m L Podcast. I'm pim Fox. 2 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Bramowitz. Each day we 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for 4 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg p m L 6 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot Com. Well, 7 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: the Department of Interior is planning to open up national 8 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: lands and monuments for commercial development. Also on at the 9 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: table is raising park fees. The Department of the Interior, 10 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: led by of course Ryan zinky In appointee of the 11 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: Trump administration, and here to talk about it, as with Fostburg, President, 12 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: chief executive officer of the Teddy Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, which 13 00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: is based in Washington. With the Teddy Roosevelt Conservation Partnership 14 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: is focused on preserving areas for use for hunting and fishing, 15 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 1: and has in the past welcomed the idea of opening 16 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: up perhaps some more lands. What's been the response to 17 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: the latest proposals, Lisa, I think the response has been 18 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: pretty negative in general. I think the we're in favor 19 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: of opening up lands for hunting and fishing, but almost 20 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: all the lands are already open for hunting and fishing. 21 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: What we really care about is making sure those lands 22 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: are well managed and that they're you know, good water quality, 23 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: good wildlife habitat, good connectivity for migration corridors so and 24 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: good access to get on them. And I think what 25 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: concerns us is this proposal to open up a lot 26 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: of these areas, uh to potentially development and to shrink monuments. 27 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: Is that directly, I think impacts you know, fish wildlife 28 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: and fish wildlife habitat, and that's the real concern. You 29 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: know what I just want to pre could start with it. 30 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: Maybe an example because I know that the President has 31 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: plans to visit Utah that's in December, and it affects 32 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: the bear ears in the Grand Staircase escalante A National monuments. 33 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: Maybe just use that as an example for what you 34 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: believe is going on and what is likely to happen. 35 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: And if you can we've in anything to do with 36 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: the local reaction, that would be useful. Yeah, pim um, 37 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: I'm gonna take a step back. The Antiquities Act was 38 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: created under Theodore Roosevelt, and he used that to set 39 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: aside about two d and thirty million acres of lands 40 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: across the country. Um, you know, he's during his presidency 41 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: and things like the Antiquities Acts as the special privilege 42 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: of the president to sort of add additional protections onto 43 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:41,839 Speaker 1: existing public lands. For example, the Grand Canyon National Park 44 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: was created through an act through the Antiquities Act. And 45 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: what you know, presidents have used at Democrat Republican ever 46 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: since Roosevelt's time to protect key areas curious archaeologically, historically, 47 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 1: fish and wildlife scientifically. Now, the controversy that we're talking 48 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: about right now involves several non monuments are created since 49 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties under Clinton and uh, you know both 50 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: Bushes and then Obama and Bears. Ears you were talking 51 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: about is about a million and a half acre monument 52 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 1: in Utah that is incredibly important to local tribal interests 53 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: but also spectacularly beautiful, has great wildlife habitat, and the 54 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: designation that was created was controversial in the locals. Uh, 55 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: some of the locals who felt that it was quote 56 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 1: locking up land. Broadly, you know, the outdoor recreation community 57 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,239 Speaker 1: supports monument designation. The hunting and fishing community can support 58 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: it when hunting and fishing are taken care of and 59 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: in ears ears you know, hunting is provided for in 60 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: the designation of the monument. So the controversy is whether 61 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: the president has the authority to go in and reduce 62 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: or rescind a monument. It has never been done before 63 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: under major scale, and I think there are a lot 64 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: of scholars of field that it's not legal. Now, Congress 65 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: clearly has the authority it wanted to go in and 66 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: change the monument designation to a national park or get 67 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: rid of all this together. It can do that, that's 68 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: not questioned. Can we talk about what the interests are? 69 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: Who they are who want to develop these particular areas. 70 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: Is this uh land that is expected to have oil 71 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: under it? Is it for minerals? Is it for developing homes? 72 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I've been out there and it's uh, it's 73 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: quite hot, there is not a lot of water, it's 74 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 1: not very populated. So so who are these developers? Well, 75 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: it's not people who are going to build homes, because 76 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: it days whether it's you know, rescinded from a national 77 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: monument or reduced. The national minement still public lands. You 78 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: can't go in and build a house on it. That 79 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: would require an act with Congress to get rid of 80 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 1: that public lands altogether. But what it would do is 81 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: potentially open the area to oil and gas development, mineral development, 82 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: more off road vehicle use, you know, things like that, 83 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: and which have you know, fairly significant potential impacts. I mean, 84 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:51,919 Speaker 1: one of the issues here bears years is you know, 85 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: sort of very well known archaeological areas for Indians and 86 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: the Native Americans, and what has been going on has 87 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: been you know, looting for years, going in, eluding all 88 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: those you know, the sacred artifacts, and in in fact, even 89 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 1: the FBI broke up a louding ring back in around 90 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: two thousand nine. So this is big business. So obviously 91 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: the criminals are all for, you know, open it back up. 92 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: But also there's it's an ideological issue. It's the government 93 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: from d C telling the locals what they can't do 94 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: on their land. Now. At the same time, I view 95 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: a little bit differently and that the government in d 96 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: C protecting that land for future generations, which is by 97 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: the way, really good for the outdoor recreation economy in 98 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 1: Utah and other places. You know what I think of 99 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: hunting and fishing as part of sort of the uh frankly, 100 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: gop uh platform in some ways because of the Second 101 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: Amendment and the idea of being able to go out 102 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: there and sustain oneself. And I'm just wondering, you know, 103 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: are you surprised that you find yourself in stark disagreement 104 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: with the actions of the current administration. Yeah, you know, 105 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: it's conservation since Roosevelt's time has really been a nonpartisan issue. 106 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: You've had Democrat Republican presidents do great things for conservation 107 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: ever since Rosevelt. In fact, you could argue that Richard 108 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: Nixon is since Rosevelt that you have been the most 109 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: environmentally progressive president. Not that he really cared about, you know, 110 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:11,919 Speaker 1: a conservation, but he saw his way to heal the nation, 111 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: you know, from the race, riots, from you know, the 112 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: Vietnam War, all those issues. We released a poll earlier 113 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: this year at the Western Governors Association and folks can 114 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: see it at www dot TRCP dot org that interviewed 115 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: Republican polls through and went out talked to a thousand 116 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 1: sportsmen around the nation on attitudes toward conservation, public lands, 117 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: conservation funding, clean water, and there is basically no difference 118 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: between Republicans, Democrats, Independence, Trump voters, Clinton voters I mean, 119 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: conservation always has been a nonpartisan issue. It should be, 120 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: but politicians tend to try to frame it as a 121 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: part as an issue or to create cleavages in the 122 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: community by claiming, gee, this is an attempt to lock 123 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: something up, or these people really want to take your 124 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: guns away. I mean, that's all nonsense. I mean, these 125 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: are common sense conservation actions that enjoy broad you know, 126 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: bipartisans port with as you mentioned politicians. I wonder if 127 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: you could just quickly tell the story of Jason Chafe 128 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: Fits to maybe illustrate what happens when politicians, uh stray 129 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: from what they are supporters really want to have happened. Yeah, Pim, 130 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: Jason Chafe is, for those who don't know who he is, 131 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: was in the Utah Republican who has now left Congress, 132 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: but was in the Republican leadership um and you know, 133 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: a pretty virulent anti conservationist in a lot of ways, 134 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: as much of the Utah delegation is. He introduced a 135 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: bill HR six one that would have sold off three 136 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: point three million acres of public lands to reduce the deficit. 137 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: And I guess he thought it was good politics. It's 138 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: you know, selling off public lands. As a part of 139 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: the Republican national platform. But I think eventually a sportsman 140 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: got pretty sick and tired of, you know, seeing the 141 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: places they go and hunt and fish, you know, sold 142 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: off and having that conservation heritage, you know, sort of 143 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: given away. And so what happened was that a series 144 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: of rallies happened across the country, but also in Utah 145 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: and his district. You know, folks really came at him online. 146 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: And you know it wasn't the traditional broken stock wearing hippies. 147 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: These were guys in camo and very traditional conservative folks. 148 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: And you know, Chafis went one went put a post 149 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: on Instagram dressed in camo holding this hunting dog, basically 150 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: apologizing and withdrawing his bill. And that was really the 151 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: first instance where the community has risen up on an 152 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: issue that didn't involve Second Amendment to really push back 153 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: on hardcore anti conservation actions. Thanks very much, wit Fostberg 154 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,319 Speaker 1: giving us an overview of the environmental issues that continued 155 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: to dog not only Ryan Sinki, the head of the 156 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: Interior Department, but politicians as well. Wit Fosberg is the 157 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:46,599 Speaker 1: president and the chief executive of the Teddy Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. 158 00:08:46,600 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: They're based in Washington, d C. Since we're talking about Russia, 159 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: we're talking about the election today, and we're talking about 160 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: all sorts of rumors, it's time to talk about fake news, 161 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: in particular Facebook's strategy to stamp it out. And here 162 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: joining us is Sarah Fryar, technology reporter, coming to us 163 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: from bloom Brick News in San Francisco. Sarah, thank you 164 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: so much for joining us. You wrote this great story 165 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: taking a look at how Facebook was grappling with these 166 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: sort of fake news that they've been accused of fostering 167 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: and disseminating widely. Can you tell us first just what 168 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: the efforts have been like on Facebook's behalf. Why don't 169 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: we just start there? So, Facebook doesn't want to be 170 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: an arbiter of what is true or false itself. It 171 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: doesn't want to hire people to fact check itself, and 172 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: it's outsourcing this effort to five separate third parties that 173 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 1: get this dashboard of you know, once they log into 174 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: their personal Facebook accounts, um they have access to this 175 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: dashboard of basically all of the worst of the worst 176 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: on the Internet, and they have to go through and 177 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: market true or false. Now it sounds like that would 178 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: be a good system, except for the fact that there's 179 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: so many duplicate stories, Like you know, something on one 180 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: site gets debunked, but by the time they debunk it, 181 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: it's on twenty other sites. Uh. And there's not a 182 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: lot of scale to the operation. These are our firms. 183 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: They get paid not at all or or up to 184 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollars a year, which is not that 185 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: much um for the amount of effort of this problem. 186 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: And um, it's just a scale of a problem that's 187 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: getting more international. Governments around the world are starting to 188 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: realize how they can use Facebook to manipulate and it's 189 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: just a fraction of the overall. One person told me 190 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 1: that they estimate a hundred stories a month are perhaps debunked. 191 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: So can we just focus just for a second on 192 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: the company itself. The company Facebook makes money by selling 193 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: digital advertisement, right, I mean, that's the bread and butter. 194 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: They've got Instagram, They've got What's App, They've got Facebook Messenger, 195 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: and then of course Facebook itself. This is a company 196 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 1: that what has thirty eight percent net margins. They did 197 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: thirty three billion in sales last year. They put twelve 198 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: billion in their pocket that is an amazing number for 199 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: a company of this size. Is that correct? So our 200 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: investors really worried about whether there's an investigation into fake news. 201 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: Maybe they're just worried that somehow the Congress or government 202 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: officials will get involved and constrain their ability to sell advertising. 203 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: But other than that, investors don't seem to be bothered 204 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: by this. No. I mean that you can tell the 205 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: stock hasn't really reacted to a lot of this. Um 206 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: the company, the advertising systems of the company. I mean, 207 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: they're not widely affected by whatever Facebook does for fake news. 208 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: But you are correct that if the perception of Facebook 209 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: changes in UH, in Washington or even in the EU, 210 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: it could cause a lot of a lot of headaches 211 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: for Facebook in terms of how they monitor their platform 212 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: and what they have to invest in and how they 213 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: have to comply with regulation. So it's in Facebook's best 214 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: interest to look very proactive and self regulate enough that 215 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: Congress decides that they don't have to. So now their 216 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: efforts with self regulating on ads, which they announced next week, 217 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,479 Speaker 1: they're going to add a lot more transparency for political advertising, 218 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: even though it went way beyond what Zuckerberg initially said 219 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: he would do after the Russia ads are revealed, it 220 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: still wasn't enough for a lot of people on Congressional Hill. So, sir, 221 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit specifically about the details of 222 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: what Facebook's efforts have been. They contracted for one year 223 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: with PolitiFact, Snopes, ABC News, fact check dot org, and 224 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: the Associated Press UH to sniff out fake new wos. 225 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: They are hiring individuals to scour all of different sites. 226 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: You know, how controversial is this just in terms of 227 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: defining what fake news is. I mean, it's been used 228 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 1: as a political weapon. You know, a lot of people 229 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: if they don't like something, they call it fake news. 230 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 1: Has that become an issue for Facebook? I think it 231 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: is an issue for Facebook. I mean one of the 232 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: new partners that they've added is um, you know, self 233 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: described conservative magazine, according to our sources, the Weekly Standard, 234 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: And so that sort of gets into the territory. Certainly, 235 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 1: some people think that snopes is is an arm of 236 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: the left wing, and some people think it's really right 237 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: right wing. Um. But what these sites are attempting to 238 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: do on Facebook at least is stamp out the worst 239 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: of the worst, like the stuff that is just so 240 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: obviously not true. That it's not a matter of opinion, um. 241 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: But when you get into the very manipulative reports, those 242 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: are things that are not yet even treated by face 243 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: fixed system. Real quick. How much is Facebook spending on 244 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: these efforts? Well, there are the you know, hundrow k 245 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: year for these groups that they and they plan to 246 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: extend the contracts. I don't know what they'll be, if 247 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: they'll be raising that amount, um. But there are some 248 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,719 Speaker 1: efforts that they are investing in in university sort of 249 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: as a philanthropic thing to try to help UH news 250 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: literacy efforts which they think will will help solve this 251 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: problem too from a different angle. Honestly, not not a 252 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: lot of monetary investment, but certainly in the communications and 253 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: public relations side, we're getting a lot. Thanks very much, 254 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: Sarah Friar as a Bloomberg technology reporter giving us her 255 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: thoughts and bringing us up to date on Facebook stumbling 256 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: with its strategy to get rid of fake news. Shares 257 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: of Facebook or down about the sixteen cents right now, 258 00:14:50,440 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: though they are up four over the last month. General 259 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: Electric has had a terrible year. It has lost about 260 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: one third of its overall market value, equal to about 261 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: a hundred billion dollars, the same market cap we were 262 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: noting before, as bitcoin now enjoys a brook Sutherland joins 263 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: us now she's in mergers and acquisitions calumnist for Bloomberg 264 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: gad Fly. You can find our columns at Bloomberg dot com, 265 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: Slash gad fly or ni gad Fly on the Bloomberg 266 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: Broken You make an argument here that it suddenly became 267 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: much easier to imagine a wholesale breakup of General Electric. 268 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: Can you explain what that would look like and why 269 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: that looks much more likely now? Sure? So, the idea 270 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: of a G breakup has been around for years, and 271 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: I think you know, it has been talked about just 272 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: in this sort of rush among industrial companies to become simpler, 273 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: and GE has done a lot of streamlining. It got 274 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: rid of G capital, got rid of appliances, it got 275 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: rid of you know, it's water business. But it's still 276 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: just sort of this big hey myth and the reasons 277 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: against a breakup where that you had sort of these 278 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: financial complexities, that you would have a huge tax bill 279 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: from selling some of these businesses. Not to mention the 280 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: conglomerate as a whole gets tax benefits. It pays a 281 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: tax rate in the low single digits, which is kind 282 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: of nuts for a US company. Um, But then when 283 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: we're sort of in this period of I don't know 284 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: if you want to call it desperation or downward spiral 285 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: or you know, just sort of a serious crisis at 286 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: g E right now, but maybe it is time to 287 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: sort of think a little bit more radically and whether 288 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: this sort of drastic breakup that everyone has has sort 289 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: of said maybe doesn't make as much sense should actually 290 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: be considered. If you're going to reset earnings and you're 291 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: going to really rethink what this company is, do you 292 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: want to be this giant, sprawling congo conglome where it's 293 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: still I wonder if Nelson I'm sure Nelson Pelts of 294 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: try and Fund Management has some views on this. They're 295 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: the activist investor that have been pushing for changes at 296 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 1: General Electric. I wonder if you could just sort of 297 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: detail for us what are the different parts of of 298 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: g E, so that we understand at least what is 299 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: on the table in terms of the company's makeup. Right, 300 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: they got the power and aviation business, right, jet engines 301 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: as well as turbines. Then they've got industrial sales, which 302 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: so then I mean, go ahead. The main businesses are power, aviation, healthcare, transportation, 303 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: and then they have sort of these smaller energy connections 304 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: slash lighting businesses, and on the face of it, those 305 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: don't necessarily have a lot to do together. Building locomotives 306 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 1: may not necessarily combined with healthcare. Yeah exactly. But so, 307 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: I mean what G has said is, okay, well, we 308 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: get benefits from being a conglomerate. So a good example 309 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: of this is their digital effort. They're trying to make 310 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 1: their machinery run more efficiently and sell software to other 311 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: industrial companies so that they can be more productive. So 312 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: G has said, well, we borrow technologies from the different 313 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: businesses and sort of share that expertise, and as a whole, 314 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: we have more resources to put towards this digital investment 315 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 1: than our individual businesses. Every time you hear the word 316 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: digital in any kind of you know, corporate strategy report, 317 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: that's got to kind of just make you think, well, 318 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: what were you doing before? Right? Yeah, I mean, I 319 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 1: do think that this has been sort of a new 320 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: wave in industrials and certainly does need to be investing 321 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: in digital. But the point I make in my article 322 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: is that they're sort of changing the way that they 323 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: view digital and that maybe they're sort of rethinking how 324 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: exactly they want to play in this field. And then 325 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: that raises the prospect of really whether you do still 326 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: need to be this concoperate. Well, let's talk about what 327 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,959 Speaker 1: would happen to the parts of General Electric should they 328 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,679 Speaker 1: decide to break it up. Would it mean selling the 329 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: different components to other big corporations that specialize in those areas, 330 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: or does it mean spinning them all off into their 331 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: own entities. I think you could do it both ways. 332 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: I think that it's sort of crazy to think about 333 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: selling g E for parts, but there are you know, 334 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: per apps companies out there that would be interested in it. UM, 335 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: specifically the aviation piece. There's already been sort of speculation 336 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: about whether g OF Aviation should combine with Honeywell Aerospace. UM. 337 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: We've seen United Technologies buying Rockwell Collins and getting a 338 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,919 Speaker 1: lot bigger in the field of aerospace parts, So there 339 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,199 Speaker 1: could be some appetite for that. You know, maybe that 340 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 1: you could do some sort of joint venture with Power. 341 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: Maybe some of these could stand alone. You know, it's 342 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: crazy to think about, but if we're really thinking about 343 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: rethinking what g E is, then maybe we should be 344 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: having some of these conversations because you know, in its 345 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 1: disastrous third quarter earnings report earlier this month, what happened 346 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 1: was the power and oil and gas business were just 347 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: disastrous and totally dragged down the numbers. But the aviation 348 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: and healthcare business, we're actually doing really well and they're 349 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 1: growing and there are sort of opportunities there. So the 350 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 1: longer you sort of continue in this structure, you're going 351 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: to still have that dynamic. And so do you need 352 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: to maybe think about should we just be an aviation 353 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: and healthcare company or just to the Asian company or 354 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 1: whatever it is. Well, what they everyone should do is 355 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: they should just read your column. Thank you very much. 356 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: Brooks Sutherland is a Blueberg Gadfly columnists covering the industrial 357 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: space and shares a g year down about one percent 358 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 1: right now. There was a headline on the Bloomberg over 359 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: the weekend that read, bond traders confront fears in week 360 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 1: that may change everything. They were talking, of course, about 361 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 1: the numerous bits of information actions that are coming up 362 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: this week that could potentially shift the tone of markets dramatically. 363 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 1: And here to give us his take on what to 364 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: pay the most attention to among all of this information 365 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: is Mike Colland, chairman of Holland and Company, which is 366 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: based in New York, and just by way of background, 367 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: Mike had spent a long time at JP Morgan managing 368 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 1: both equity and fixing commons assets for major institutional clients, 369 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,239 Speaker 1: former CEO of First Boston Asset Management as well as 370 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: chairman of Solomon Brothers Asset Management. So a lot of 371 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: experience under your belt, Mike. This week, we're looking at 372 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 1: a possible tax plan, We're looking at the indictment of 373 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,479 Speaker 1: Paul mana Fort, We're looking at a possible nomination of 374 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 1: a new FED chair. What are you looking at as 375 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 1: having the most potential to truly royal markets? Uh? To 376 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: keep the markets? To change your question, Lisa, well, do 377 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: is say? What? What would keep the markets from staying unroyaled, 378 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: if you will, with all the bad headlines over the 379 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: last several months, is continuing economic growth? I think to 380 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: get your questions specifically, the one thing that could really 381 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 1: did knock the pins out from underneath this market would 382 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 1: be a clear message that the tax reform package is 383 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: going to be scuttled. I think that's the that's the 384 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: one thing. The markets are are absolutely ignoring a lot 385 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: of the other stuff that that might have in other 386 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: markets have have said, let's let's take the market down 387 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: a little bit. Here in this market, nothing has seemed 388 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: to face it because the economic numbers have been very good, 389 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: and people believe that despite all the craziness in Washington, 390 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 1: there will be a tax package. If there is none 391 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 1: that would that would be my my biggest whirling factor. Okay, 392 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 1: so so please build on that, Mike. Which sectors do 393 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: you think would sell off the most should we get 394 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 1: some clear sense that tax reform tax cuts are off 395 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: the table. Well, I think it would be across the board, Lisa, 396 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: But I think probably the ones that would have gone 397 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: up the most would go would go down the most. 398 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 1: That's usually what happens in a market reaction like that. 399 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: It's it's it's it's pretty uh, it's pretty symmetrical. Hey, Mike, 400 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,919 Speaker 1: excuse me, Mike. I just got this image of you 401 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: though using your Apple iPhone. I know you've probably already 402 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 1: gotten lines for the new Apple the you know, the 403 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: iPhone ten. You got that You're wearing your under armour 404 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: outfit right now because you had way too many oreos 405 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,679 Speaker 1: over the weekend, along with that Ritz Cracker chaser and 406 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: you and you paid for it all using your master cards. 407 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: So now we've completed the earnings report for this week, 408 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: lets you get the Friday non farm payrolls for October. 409 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 1: What's not to like about a market? Apple? Come on? 410 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: Apple is up more than so far this year. We'll 411 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: get the Mondalese results today after the close under armour 412 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: also tomorrow, master card tomorrow. What's not to like about 413 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: this market? Come on him? You know me too well, 414 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: and thank you for answering your question. It was it 415 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: was Ah, I think starting with the the Apple, You're 416 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: absolutely right. On Friday, I did get in linea paid 417 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: UH paid up front for the UH for the honor 418 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 1: of buying this very expensive phone. But I actually believe 419 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: that that I heard something on Friday out of Apple, 420 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: Tim that is something they talked about the pre orders 421 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: in the We're off the charts. I mean this is 422 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: I've never heard a company of Apple size ever say 423 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 1: anything quite like that. And this morning, just in the 424 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: last hour or two, it's it's important. I haven't heard 425 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: it reported too much elsewhere UH that the UH five 426 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: to six week delay or or shipment period. That that 427 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: those of us who didn't get in line right at 428 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: three three am in the morning. Uh, we're we're told 429 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: would would be the normal. So first or second week 430 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: in December. Apparently that not not only has not budget 431 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: but and will is not lengthening despite the off the 432 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: charge orders. But in fact the the uh comment has 433 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: come out of Apple that they have told the Taiwan 434 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: manufacturers who supply the important parts to double capacity because 435 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: of the orders. So these are all very important data 436 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: points for you know, you and I have been in 437 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: this market long enough. When everything sounds so good about 438 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: a company like Apple, we get very concerned that things 439 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: are about to go bump in the night. But but 440 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: at least today, for all the facts that we have, uh, 441 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: the story with Apple continues to get a little bit 442 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: better despite the fact that stock is up. Mike, did 443 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: you really get in line at three am? Wow? That 444 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 1: was like wow, that the whole new image of you 445 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: springs up. But you had to you had it was 446 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: a midnight California time. You had you could preorder on 447 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 1: your phone. And I just later in the day, actually, okay, 448 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 1: I did. I went to Grand Central to the Apple 449 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: Store around noontime and just had them help me preorder it. So, Mike, 450 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 1: you know a few great tech companies. Uh An economy 451 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: does not make right. So we are getting economic data 452 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 1: and it has been better than a lot of analysts 453 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: have been expecting. But this is messy data, right because 454 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: it's being clouded by the hurricanes and the aftermath. And 455 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 1: I have to wonder. You know, we are seeing a 456 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 1: flattening Yeel curve that continues to flatten. You know what 457 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 1: a bond trader seeing. The stock traders just aren't. But 458 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: I think you put your put your finger on a 459 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: very important additional data point, Lisa. That was the the 460 00:25:58,280 --> 00:25:59,959 Speaker 1: g d P number that just came out. A lot 461 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,880 Speaker 1: of the forecasters were saying that that two point eight 462 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: two point nine GDP thing was going to be harmed 463 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: dramatically by the by the effects of the hurricane, which 464 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 1: we're disastrous, and yet we came in with a very 465 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: surprising to me anyhow three percent number. Many people said 466 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: that you weren't going to see a three handle on 467 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: this thing. I think I think the most important point 468 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: for concern of the UH bond trading community, Lisa, would 469 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 1: be uh an article in today's Wall Street Journal reflects, 470 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 1: you know, the possibility that things are so good we're 471 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: beginning to get some inflation now that inflation has been 472 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 1: uh predicted by many barished people over the last ten 473 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 1: years and hasn't occurred, but at some point it probably 474 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: will happen. That would be that would be the most 475 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: significant thing for bond traders to figure out how not 476 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: to lose money at that point. Hey, Mike, do you 477 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: think that bond traders actually buy anything from Amazon and 478 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: get their products shipped by FedEx and ups because they 479 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 1: both raised their rates and also Netflix raised the subscription 480 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: rate ten percent. I mean they may be small and anecdotal, 481 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: but I mean this is stuff that people pay for. 482 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: That's how these things started. You and I have been 483 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: through these markets before, and there's no question that that 484 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: people are beginning to have trouble finding people to work 485 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: in new job openings in their companies means that they're 486 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: paying up. Is it a board meeting last week? People 487 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: are are adjusted. We simply that this company adjusted uh 488 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: the current wage picture up. I think that's going on, 489 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: but it's the right now. It's anecdotal, it's not it's 490 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 1: not hit the faction. But I think it'll hit the 491 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: fact sometime in our lifetime, and it maybe sooner than 492 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,919 Speaker 1: we think. Who knows. Thanks very much, Mike Holland of 493 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: Mike Holland and Company. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg 494 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: p n L podcast. You can subscribe and listen to 495 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: interviews at Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whatever podcast platform you prefer. 496 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: I'm Pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at pim Fox. I'm 497 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Lisa Abramo. WIT's one before the podcast. 498 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: You can always catch us worldwide on Bloomberg Radio