Speaker 1: Pushkin. What makes some people happier than others. What allows
Speaker 1: some people to radiate joy even in the face of adversity,
Speaker 1: while other people can't feel satisfied even in the best
Speaker 1: of circumstances. Well, Like most human traits, happiness is a
Speaker 1: very complex combination of nature and nurture. At least some
Speaker 1: of the variants we see in people's well being is
Speaker 1: due to their genes, but a lot of it is
Speaker 1: also due to environmental factors, and few environmental factors, especially
Speaker 1: early on, are as powerful as a person's parents. From
Speaker 1: the way a parent responds to a child's big emotions
Speaker 1: to the values they model in daily life, caregivers can
Speaker 1: have a lasting impact on a child's happiness, shaping the
Speaker 1: way children handle stress, how they form attachments, and the
Speaker 1: mindsets they bring to tough problems. If you're a parent yourself,
Speaker 1: you're probably very aware of this fact, very worried about it.
Speaker 1: It's kind of terrifying to feel like every little choice
Speaker 1: you make has the potential to either empower your child
Speaker 1: or set them up for a lifetime of expensive therapy.
Speaker 1: That kind of pressure has always been there for parents,
Speaker 1: but these days things feel even more fraught. In addition
Speaker 1: to the usual stresses, moms and dads today need to
Speaker 1: figure out how to navigate screen time, how to help
Speaker 1: their kids stay safe online, how to protect their family
Speaker 1: is from the loneliness and mental health crises currently playing
Speaker 1: so many people, and how to help the next generation
Speaker 1: face the future that feels more precarious than ever. It's
Speaker 1: gotten so bad that government officials have begun taking action.
Speaker 1: Last summer, the former US Surgeon General VIVEC. Murthy published
Speaker 1: a public health advisory entitled Parents under Pressure. That advisory
Speaker 1: called attention to the fact that parental mental health is
Speaker 1: on the decline. So much so, the Surgeon General argued
Speaker 1: that caregiver stress has become an urgent public health issue,
Speaker 1: a problem just as impactful as the opioid crisis or
Speaker 1: gun violence. The report advised that something needs to be
Speaker 1: done right away to support parent well being, to help
Speaker 1: prevent caregivers from feeling, as the advisory put it, exhausted,
Speaker 1: burned out, and perpetually behind. Here at the Happiness Lab,
Speaker 1: we wanted to answer this important call to action, and
Speaker 1: so we've put together an entire season on ways that
Speaker 1: parents can protect their mental health while doing the important
Speaker 1: work of raising another human while being human. Over the
Speaker 1: next few episodes, I'll be speaking with some of the
Speaker 1: world's top scientists and parenting experts about strategies modern caregivers
Speaker 1: can use to protect their own mental health while taking
Speaker 1: care of the next generation. We'll be exploring questions like
Speaker 1: how can parents help their kids to become happy, healthy
Speaker 1: and productive adults without losing sight of their own well
Speaker 1: being along the way, how can adults and kids use
Speaker 1: screens and social media and healthier ways, And how can
Speaker 1: we all model more effective ways of handling tough emotions.
Speaker 1: If you're a parent, this series will give you actionable
Speaker 1: tips for navigating the stress of being a caregiver. And
Speaker 1: if you're not a parent or caregiver, not to worry,
Speaker 1: because you'll se still find lots of happiness strategies that
Speaker 1: everyone can use in this series, like how to manage
Speaker 1: your time better to feel less overwhelmed, how to achieve
Speaker 1: a healthier work life balance will count as true self care,
Speaker 1: and how to work through your big feelings without hurting
Speaker 1: the people around you. And since I really wanted to
Speaker 1: go big on my goal of fixing this parent mental
Speaker 1: health crisis, this new season of The Happiness Lab will
Speaker 1: also coincide with the release of a new version of
Speaker 1: my free online Yale Happiness course. It's called The Science
Speaker 1: of well Being for Parents. Think an entire class filled
Speaker 1: with actionable strategies that parents can use to feel less stressed,
Speaker 1: reduce their burnout, and protect their mental health. And it's
Speaker 1: completely free of charge. You can sign up now on
Speaker 1: my website doctor Laurisanto's dot com slash parents. That's doctor
Speaker 1: Laurie Santo's dot com slash parents. So yeah, we are
Speaker 1: going big on helping families this season, and that's why
Speaker 1: I was so excited to bring in a very special
Speaker 1: guest for our first episode, the guy who first sounded
Speaker 1: the alarm on the crisis facing our nation's parents.
Speaker 2: Everyone. I'm Vivig Murthy. I'm a dad of two young
Speaker 2: kids from Miami, Florida originally, and I served as the
Speaker 2: nineteenth and twenty first Surgeon General of the United States.
Speaker 1: I began by asking doctor Murphy what led to his
Speaker 1: decision to flag parent mental health as part of one
Speaker 1: of his official Surgeon General advisories.
Speaker 2: These are not commonly issued. They're typically reserved for when
Speaker 2: there are critical health issues that people need to be
Speaker 2: aware of. And they lay out a series of actions
Speaker 2: that we can take to address that issue. So they're
Speaker 2: meant to highlight a problem and offer a solution. And
Speaker 2: during my tenure, I've actually issued a number of these advisories.
Speaker 2: During my work on the youth mental health crisis, I
Speaker 2: came to see that we can't address youth mental health
Speaker 2: if we're not also addressing what's happening to the mental
Speaker 2: health of parents.
Speaker 1: And so you mentioned this a little bit in your
Speaker 1: last answer, but I was just curious how you get
Speaker 1: interested in parents stress. When did you start seeing this
Speaker 1: is a big issue, And how much of it was
Speaker 1: a surgeon general, and how much of it was you
Speaker 1: reflecting on your own parenting and friend parents and so on.
Speaker 2: Before I was a parent, I really did not understand
Speaker 2: very much about what parents were going through. I experienced
Speaker 2: what a lot of people probably do during their lives,
Speaker 2: which is, once their friends get married and have kids,
Speaker 2: it almost feels like sometimes are in a different world, right,
Speaker 2: And I myself didn't make as much of an effort,
Speaker 2: perhaps as I should have, to understand that world, and
Speaker 2: so our lives sort of grew a part of it.
Speaker 2: It was when I became a parent that I started
Speaker 2: to realize, Wow, this is hard, And I knew it
Speaker 2: was going to be hard, but I didn't know like
Speaker 2: the ways in which it was going to be hard,
Speaker 2: Like how profoundly lonely and challenging it could be to parent.
Speaker 2: I didn't know that I'd be up till three am
Speaker 2: most nights trying to google what kind of like diapers
Speaker 2: are good for my kids, or what kind of wipes
Speaker 2: are going to be safe for them. You know, all
Speaker 2: of these things which occupy our lives as parents. I
Speaker 2: just didn't know the extent to which that would take
Speaker 2: a toll and well being. But it was actually when
Speaker 2: I became Surgeon General and started working on the youth
Speaker 2: mental health crisis that's actually where what was happening to
Speaker 2: parents became even more clear to me. Because as I
Speaker 2: was going to communities to talk to people about what
Speaker 2: was happening to their adolescents and to their young adults
Speaker 2: in their lives, I started hearing these stories of real
Speaker 2: stress and hardship that parents were undergoing. Start to realize,
Speaker 2: these parents are they're not getting sleep, dealing with more
Speaker 2: and more stressors, the old ones you know that parents
Speaker 2: have always had to deal with like worrying about your kids' safety,
Speaker 2: but also new ones like how do I manage social
Speaker 2: media in my child's life, how do I deal with
Speaker 2: the epidemic of gun violence that has become so prevalent
Speaker 2: in our country, and how do I prepare my kids
Speaker 2: for a future which seems to be changing every hour.
Speaker 2: And I also realized as I dug into the science
Speaker 2: behind it, Laurie, that mental health of parents really does,
Speaker 2: in measurable ways, affect the mental health of their kids.
Speaker 2: And I say this not to make parents feel worried that,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, the their struggles are going to hurt
Speaker 2: their kids, but more so to say that, not surprisingly
Speaker 2: parents and kids, they have a symbiotic relationship with each other.
Speaker 2: They have interdependencies, and when we help one, we help
Speaker 2: the other. And so I came to see as I
Speaker 2: dug into the data, which was really surprising to me
Speaker 2: on what's happening to the mental health of parents. You
Speaker 2: quickly come to the conclusion that we've got to invest
Speaker 2: in caring for parents, not only because they matter, but
Speaker 2: because they are part of the solution ultimately addressing the
Speaker 2: youth metal health crisis.
Speaker 1: And so give me a sense of some of the statistics, like,
Speaker 1: when you actually survey parents, what are the kinds of
Speaker 1: things you see in terms of the stresses they're going through,
Speaker 1: in the sort of magnitude of those stresses.
Speaker 2: So the a couple of things that really popped out
Speaker 2: to me. The first was that forty eight percent of
Speaker 2: parents nearly have say that on most days their stress
Speaker 2: is absolutely overwhelming. Wow, like that is not normal. We
Speaker 2: shouldn't think of it as normal. And when you compare
Speaker 2: it to the general population, it's about a quarter of
Speaker 2: the general population, about twenty six percent. That says that
Speaker 2: we adults who are not parents. The other thing that
Speaker 2: really struck me was that parents struggle with loneliness at
Speaker 2: a higher rate than adults who aren't parents. Now, this
Speaker 2: is counterintuitive, right, Most people, and I thought this before
Speaker 2: I was a parent, would think that, Wow, when you're
Speaker 2: a parent, you've got a family around you, you're probably
Speaker 2: less lonely than somebody who doesn't. But it turns out
Speaker 2: that it can be quite a lonely experience, you know,
Speaker 2: especially if you find your self raising kids without family
Speaker 2: or close friends around, and you find yourself struggling in
Speaker 2: the middle of the night to figure out how to
Speaker 2: console a child who's really upset. You know, if you
Speaker 2: have a young child, or if you've got an older
Speaker 2: child worrying about where they are in the middle of
Speaker 2: the night and are something gone wrong with them? How
Speaker 2: do you manage that? There are a lot of struggles
Speaker 2: that parents contend with on their own, and I think
Speaker 2: part of what has made it even more challenging, Laurie,
Speaker 2: for parents is we talk a lot about and you
Speaker 2: and I have talked about the comparison culture that has
Speaker 2: been dramatically accelerated by social media in particular, and how
Speaker 2: that's impacting our kids. It turns out that's impacting adults too, right,
Speaker 2: and they too are subject to the comparison culture and
Speaker 2: are looking at what other parents are posting online. And
Speaker 2: it seems like every parent kind of has things figured
Speaker 2: out that somehow they figured out how to manage social media,
Speaker 2: how to keep their kids safe, how to make sure
Speaker 2: their kids eating and sleeping, how to make sure their
Speaker 2: kids learning three languages, four sports, and doing six other
Speaker 2: extracurriculars including five instruments, you know whatever. It is like
Speaker 2: it seems like everyone has got to pull together, but
Speaker 2: in reality it's profoundly different. A lot of parents are struggling,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't seem like that. So the experience of
Speaker 2: being online can often make you feel that you're falling
Speaker 2: short and make you feel that somehow you're alone in
Speaker 2: your struggles. So these are some of the things that
Speaker 2: I was noticing in terms of the statistics, and they
Speaker 2: were really born out lari by the stories that I
Speaker 2: was hearing from parents on the road, and after our
Speaker 2: advisory came out, and after the ed that I wrote
Speaker 2: to summarize advisory came out of the New York Times.
Speaker 2: I've just been overwhelmed with feedback from parents all across
Speaker 2: the spectrum wherever I travel, who say, wow, I felt
Speaker 2: so seen. The truth is, I've really been struggling.
Speaker 1: So you brought up some of the parent reactions when
Speaker 1: you release this report. I'm kind of curious like other
Speaker 1: people's reactions. I mean, I saw some news articles they
Speaker 1: were almost a little bit flippant about this, of like, oh,
Speaker 1: parenting is a public health crisis now, is like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just as bad as smoking and obesity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I think that what's happening with parents mental
Speaker 2: health now really is a real challenge that has significant
Speaker 2: and concerning public health ripples that affect parents, affect kids,
Speaker 2: that affect parents in the workplace, and their role in society,
Speaker 2: and just keep in mind, like parents are in a
Speaker 2: small group right in society, We're talking about millions and
Speaker 2: millions and millions of adults in America who are quietly
Speaker 2: struggling behind the scenes, trying to make it all work
Speaker 2: but having a really hard time. Is some of the
Speaker 2: reactions that we got that overwhelmingly, it was a very
Speaker 2: positive reaction from not just parents who felt more seen
Speaker 2: in her, but from doctors and nurses who have been
Speaker 2: seeing these struggles in their clinics and saying, wow, yes,
Speaker 2: something really needs to be done about this. There was
Speaker 2: a small minority, though, of people who we heard from
Speaker 2: who said, why is this my problem? Like, I didn't
Speaker 2: choose to have kids. If you chose to have kids,
Speaker 2: and you should deal with distresses and consequences of that.
Speaker 2: And while I understand where some of those folks may
Speaker 2: be coming from, one of the points we wanted to
Speaker 2: make in this advisory is that the health and well
Speaker 2: being of parents actually matters to all of us because
Speaker 2: parents are actually doing an extraordinarily important and invaluable job
Speaker 2: or society which is they're raising the next generation. And
Speaker 2: this is one of the reasons why we invest in
Speaker 2: public schools, for example, because we know raising the next
Speaker 2: generation well matters. We all pay into making sure that
Speaker 2: schools can educate our kids. Similarly, parents are a critical
Speaker 2: piece of that and so their well being actually really
Speaker 2: does matter to all of us. And that was one
Speaker 2: of the points that we wanted to make in this,
Speaker 2: Like whether you're a business leader who's trying to figure
Speaker 2: out how do I recruit talented, healthy, mentally strong young
Speaker 2: people to come into the workplace, or whether you're somebody
Speaker 2: who wants to make sure that the neighborhood is full
Speaker 2: of young people who are responsible and thoughtful and healthy
Speaker 2: and well. Regardless whether you have kids or not, you
Speaker 2: have a vested interest in parents' mental health and well being.
Speaker 1: It's a big burden to shape the next generation of
Speaker 1: our planets, neighbors, leaders, and colleagues. And it's pretty frightening
Speaker 1: to think that the people doing that right now are
Speaker 1: in a mental health crisis themselves. But doctor Murphy thinks
Speaker 1: there's reason for hope. He'll share the concrete steps he
Speaker 1: thinks we need to take to fix things. When the
Speaker 1: happiness lab returns from the break and his advisory parents
Speaker 1: under pressure. Former Surgeon General doctor Vveck Murthy writes that
Speaker 1: nearly half of our nations mothers and fathers are so
Speaker 1: stressed out that they have difficulty functioning. That's really bad.
Speaker 1: But doctor Murphy also argues that it's possible to turn
Speaker 1: things around. I asked him to break down what we
Speaker 1: need to do to help families not only cope but thrive.
Speaker 1: His first suggestion is that we need to recognize that
Speaker 1: caregivers need care too.
Speaker 2: It's important because if the people who are doing the
Speaker 2: caring aren't also cared for, they burn out. And we
Speaker 2: have seen that not just with parents. We've seen that
Speaker 2: with doctors and nurses in hospitals and clinics across the
Speaker 2: country made worse by COVID. But this is a problem
Speaker 2: in before COVID. We see that with people who are
Speaker 2: caring for elderly relatives at home who are ill, or
Speaker 2: for children who are chronically ill. When you've got a
Speaker 2: sick loved one and you're caring for them all the time,
Speaker 2: that can be very stressful. If we don't end up
Speaker 2: caring for the people who are in fact doing the
Speaker 2: caring for others. What happened is not only that they
Speaker 2: burn out, but the people they're caring for ultimately suffer too.
Speaker 2: Just to use a healthcare example for a moment. When
Speaker 2: I issued in twenty twenty two a Search and General's
Speaker 2: advisory on health work or Burnout, one of the things
Speaker 2: I noted was that nearly half of nurses and a
Speaker 2: quarter of doctors who were saying that they were so
Speaker 2: burned out they were thinking of leaving the clinical profession.
Speaker 2: Thank you. Just imagine for a moment if a quarter
Speaker 2: of doctors and half of nurses lee, what happens to
Speaker 2: emergency care, primary care, our ability to take care of
Speaker 2: people when they have health issues at creators right. And
Speaker 2: So this is why these issues really affect all of us,
Speaker 2: and it's why I think we should look at parenting
Speaker 2: again as a sacred responsibility that parents have taken on
Speaker 2: and one that we all have to ultimately pull together
Speaker 2: to support them in.
Speaker 1: I think this is such an important spot to start,
Speaker 1: because I think in awareness that parenting is hard is
Speaker 1: sometimes hard for parents to admit, you know, As I
Speaker 1: thought about kind of the types of topics to share
Speaker 1: with parents as part of this podcast, One of the
Speaker 1: things that kept coming up over and over again was
Speaker 1: this idea that parents feel guilty, Like they feel guilty
Speaker 1: for fear like they're lonely or that they're struggling, or
Speaker 1: that they don't like parenting. Sometimes they have a hard
Speaker 1: time admitting it, and it seems like just this awareness
Speaker 1: is really contributing to the guilt factor. Right, you don't
Speaker 1: have to feel bad. You can have some compassion for
Speaker 1: yourselves for the fact that this is a hard, important job,
Speaker 1: and it's okay if you feel like you're struggling.
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you mentioned that, Laurie, because the amount
Speaker 2: of shame and guilt that I hear from parents all
Speaker 2: over the country is really profound, and it really saddens
Speaker 2: me because I look at these parents who are just
Speaker 2: sacrificing everything in some cases to just make sure they're
Speaker 2: there for their kids and dealing with all of the
Speaker 2: challenges their kids may be facing. It feel like even
Speaker 2: just raising the fact that they're burning out or struggling
Speaker 2: means that they've failed as parents. And what has really
Speaker 2: happened are really two critical things that we have to
Speaker 2: keep in mind. One is that parenting actually has become
Speaker 2: harder in a lot of ways. It's not that every
Speaker 2: generation doesn't have its own challenges. They do. But what
Speaker 2: parents say routinely on surveys is that tech and social
Speaker 2: media in particular are the top two reasons why they
Speaker 2: feel parenting is so much harder now than it was
Speaker 2: a generation ago. My parents when I was growing up
Speaker 2: didn't have to deal with how to manage technology in
Speaker 2: my life in terms of not just social media but
Speaker 2: also cell phones. Right. They didn't have to worry about
Speaker 2: me having a portable cable service and internet in my
Speaker 2: pocket at all times and staying up late at night
Speaker 2: and worry about what I was getting into them put
Speaker 2: my safety at risk. So the nature of parenting has
Speaker 2: really changed. But the other thing that has changed over time, Laurie,
Speaker 2: is if parenting went from what it has been for millennia,
Speaker 2: which is a team sport, to an individual endeavor, right,
Speaker 2: And that is just not how we have evolved and
Speaker 2: been built, you know, as a species over time and
Speaker 2: for generations when people were living in extended families or
Speaker 2: in communities that they had known for a long time,
Speaker 2: when they had a child, people would come to help,
Speaker 2: not just relatives and neighbors, and friends. If you had
Speaker 2: to run out somewhere, you could ask a neighbor to
Speaker 2: just watch your kids, or drop your kids up at
Speaker 2: the neighbor's house, or all the kids would just play together,
Speaker 2: you know, at somebody's house for an afternoon, and then
Speaker 2: parents can go and do their thing. What you find
Speaker 2: when you look at the data, which is really interesting,
Speaker 2: is compared to just a couple of decades ago, parents
Speaker 2: are spending and these are moms and dads are spending
Speaker 2: more time at work. That may not surprise you, but
Speaker 2: what is surprising is that moms and dads are also
Speaker 2: spending more time in childcare. Right, So, if moms and
Speaker 2: not just spending more time working and more time caring
Speaker 2: for their children, the question is what are they not
Speaker 2: doing time that they have to sleep, to recuperate, to
Speaker 2: socialize with others, to take time just to care for themselves.
Speaker 2: That time has become much more squeezed, and so when
Speaker 2: you look at this all together, you realize that parents
Speaker 2: are really having to contend with even more than maybe
Speaker 2: a generation or two go in terms of challenges, challenges
Speaker 2: they never grew up with, and they're having to do
Speaker 2: it with less time and with less support, and that
Speaker 2: really is a recipe for struggle and burnout.
Speaker 1: And so let's talk about some strategies that parents as
Speaker 1: individuals can take to kind of make things better. One
Speaker 1: of the things you talk about a lot is sort
Speaker 1: of fighting this idea that parenting has gone from a
Speaker 1: team sport to an indie visual sport. That parents need
Speaker 1: to connect with other parents. What can parents do to
Speaker 1: do that? What are some more specific strategies they can
Speaker 1: use to reach out and connect?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think the first thing is just to
Speaker 2: recognize that if you're struggling as a parent, you are
Speaker 2: not alone, and to not necessarily believe what you see
Speaker 2: online or on social media that's not representative of reality.
Speaker 2: The second is to start conversations with other parents about
Speaker 2: what they may be struggling, whether you may be struggling
Speaker 2: with I have two small kids, there are six and eight.
Speaker 2: They're in first and third grade, and we have discussion
Speaker 2: threats and text with the parents in each class. These
Speaker 2: are invaluable, right. People talk about all kinds of things.
Speaker 2: What are you wearing for Spirit Day with? What are
Speaker 2: people doing for the holiday, or if someone's late picking
Speaker 2: up their child and say, hey, can anybody just you know,
Speaker 2: look out for my kid, Like, these are wonderful things
Speaker 2: to use that to join thread for. But what we
Speaker 2: need to start talking about more are other struggles like, hey,
Speaker 2: is anybody having a hard time like managing the iPad
Speaker 2: for your child? And we know that that is true
Speaker 2: from any parents. How are people thinking about phones? Is
Speaker 2: anyone's kids asking for a phone? And now are you
Speaker 2: managing that? These are some of the conversations we need
Speaker 2: to start initiating and having. When we do, it's like
Speaker 2: opening the floodgates. We start to realize, Wow, everyone is
Speaker 2: really struggling with it. They just didn't feel comfortable like
Speaker 2: you're sharing that, or thought they were the only ones.
Speaker 2: The third thing I would recommend for parents is to
Speaker 2: do small things in your own life to actually try
Speaker 2: to help and support other parents. Now, this is going
Speaker 2: to be counterintuitive because you might think, hey, hold on,
Speaker 2: I'm the one who needs helpier. You know, I'm struggling,
Speaker 2: Like what do you ask me to help somebody else for?
Speaker 2: But here's actually why this is so magical, because when
Speaker 2: you do even a small thing to help another parent,
Speaker 2: it could be for example, telling them, hey, you know,
Speaker 2: I'll just watch your kid on the playground for the
Speaker 2: next ten to fifteen minutes, if you need to go
Speaker 2: make a call, if you just want to go sit
Speaker 2: down somewhere and just take some deep breaths. These small
Speaker 2: things help other parents feel like they're seen, help them
Speaker 2: feel like they're not alone, and they also can be
Speaker 2: incredibly empowering for you as a person doing the helping.
Speaker 2: It helps forge a bond between you and other parents
Speaker 2: as well that help you feel like you're not alone.
Speaker 2: My wife Alice is a master at this. Give you
Speaker 2: an example something she just did recently. She send a
Speaker 2: message out to the text threat and said, Hey, I
Speaker 2: know that the holidays are coming up and people are
Speaker 2: probably shopping for gifts. Are there any parents out there
Speaker 2: who have businesses that you'd want us to know about,
Speaker 2: so maybe we can shop and support your businesses, you know,
Speaker 2: like as we're looking for gifts. And all these people
Speaker 2: responded like, well, what a great idea. Yeah, yeah, this
Speaker 2: is a great way that parents can support other parents,
Speaker 2: and it just helped it feel like more of a community.
Speaker 2: But we also, for a long time, like hesitated to
Speaker 2: have people over to our house because with two kids,
Speaker 2: like our house is constantly in chaos. It's like it's
Speaker 2: it's a mess, it's never like as tidy your need
Speaker 2: as it should be, and it's also small, and we thought, gosh,
Speaker 2: well we're not really set up to really entertain that well.
Speaker 2: And then at some point Alison I just sat down.
Speaker 2: We're looking. If we're feeling this way, other parents are
Speaker 2: probably feeling this way, So why don't we just have
Speaker 2: people over and just sound it's chaotic, it's messy, we're
Speaker 2: not sure what you know we have in terms of food,
Speaker 2: but we'll pull something together and just come over. We'll
Speaker 2: just hang out, our kids will play together, and I'll
Speaker 2: tell you. Once we started doing that, not only was
Speaker 2: it tremendous fun, but we realized something really important, which
Speaker 2: is that fundamentally, people when they come over, what makes
Speaker 2: the biggest difference in their experience is the other people there.
Speaker 2: It's not like how fancy your house is, was everything
Speaker 2: neat and tidy? And in fact, a lot of parents said, oh, well,
Speaker 2: thank you for having us over. Our house is always
Speaker 2: in chaos, but you kind of make us feel like
Speaker 2: it's okay to have people over too, So maybe we'll
Speaker 2: start doing that. So these are some small things as
Speaker 2: parents that we could start to do in our day
Speaker 2: to day lives. But most of all, I just want
Speaker 2: parents to know that again, if you are struggling out there,
Speaker 2: do not feel like this is a reflection of your
Speaker 2: failure as a parent or somehow you're something to be
Speaker 2: ashamed of. You are part of a larger generation of
Speaker 2: parents or collectively struggling with a whole bunch of new
Speaker 2: challenges of prior generations and have to deal with. And
Speaker 2: the more we can talk more openly about what we're
Speaker 2: dealing with, the more we can find support and ultimately
Speaker 2: get through parenting. Do well by our children and do
Speaker 2: well by ourselves.
Speaker 1: So mothers and fathers can work to create their own
Speaker 1: proverbial village to combat the loneliness and stress of modern parenting.
Speaker 1: But doctor Murphy doesn't think that caregivis should be responsible
Speaker 1: for taking care of themselves by themselves. After the break,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about the big structural changes that are needed
Speaker 1: to protect parent mental health. The Happiness Lab will be
Speaker 1: right back. When it comes to improving parental happiness, there's
Speaker 1: only so much that moms and dads can do on
Speaker 1: their own. Former Surgeon General Doctor Vvick Murphy thinks that
Speaker 1: modern society isn't set up all that well for parents
Speaker 1: to reduce their own stress.
Speaker 2: It's absolutely the case that making parenting more sustainable has
Speaker 2: to be as societal priority and requires societal action. And
Speaker 2: so if we want to talk about workplaces, to start with,
Speaker 2: having policies and programs that support caregivers in the workplace
Speaker 2: is vital. And that can look like flexibility in hours
Speaker 2: so that if a parent needs to be there for
Speaker 2: a school event, they can do that without feeling guilty
Speaker 2: that they are somehow harming the workplace. The other thing
Speaker 2: that workplaces can do is ensure that parents have sickly.
Speaker 2: One of the most painful decisions parents have to make
Speaker 2: sometimes is what to do when they're child is sick
Speaker 2: with regard to work in those moments, if you can
Speaker 2: help a parent feel like you know what your child
Speaker 2: is sick, it's okay if you are with them, it's
Speaker 2: okay if you work from home. The other things that
Speaker 2: workplaces can do is actually to ensure that when you're
Speaker 2: picking an insurance plan for your employees that you're finding
Speaker 2: one that actually has strong mental health care coverage as well,
Speaker 2: because keep in mind, we are living in the midst
Speaker 2: of a youth mental health crisis when many parents have
Speaker 2: children who are struggling with anxiety or depression or maybe
Speaker 2: even attempted to take their own life. This has tragically
Speaker 2: become all too common, and being able to have at
Speaker 2: least strong mental health care coverage that's really vital. So
Speaker 2: finally I would just keep in mind, and this is
Speaker 2: something that doesn't necessarily cost any money, but being able
Speaker 2: to bring parents together in a workplace to even talk
Speaker 2: about their experiences, not just with other parents, but with
Speaker 2: other colleagues in the workplace. Talk about your family life,
Speaker 2: you know, like tell people about your kids, help them
Speaker 2: understand some of the things you contend with. That can
Speaker 2: be immensely helpful. A lot of parents go to work
Speaker 2: and feel like they have to completely check their parent
Speaker 2: identity at the door, and feel like if they talk
Speaker 2: about any of the challenges they have as parents, that'll
Speaker 2: be somehow seen as they're weak or unreliable or not
Speaker 2: somebody who should be promoted or dependent on in some way.
Speaker 2: And the reality is that everybody, whether your parent or not,
Speaker 2: has challenges outside of work, right, and the more we
Speaker 2: can just be a little bit more human and open
Speaker 2: about sharing those non work dimensions of our life. It
Speaker 2: doesn't mean we have to divulge our deepest and darkest
Speaker 2: secrets to everyone at work. But what it does mean
Speaker 2: is that when we can come into work knowing that, yeah,
Speaker 2: people know that we have children, or they know we
Speaker 2: have small kids, or they know that, hey, maybe this
Speaker 2: month is going to be able challenging because my child
Speaker 2: is a lot going on that I need to be
Speaker 2: there for. That can actually really help a lot to
Speaker 2: reduce the stress and anticipatory anxiety that many parents feel.
Speaker 1: I think this is so critical because people just spend
Speaker 1: so much time at work. A third of your time
Speaker 1: is at work, and study after study shows that for
Speaker 1: a lot of people, the social connection in the community
Speaker 1: to develop at work is their main social connection in community.
Speaker 1: So if parents aren't connecting through other parents at work,
Speaker 1: that leaves a big hole. So I love the idea
Speaker 1: of using the workplace to find kind of connections among
Speaker 1: parents and sort of maybe as a manager, even supporting
Speaker 1: building that over time to protect parenttal health.
Speaker 2: And I'll tell you one thing, Laurie. When I first
Speaker 2: began my tenure as surgeon General, I remember I was
Speaker 2: looking to hire a new staff and one of the
Speaker 2: staff members I was looking to hire. I could tell
Speaker 2: her something she wanted to talk to me about, but
Speaker 2: like she wasn't quite bringing it up. Finally, I said, well,
Speaker 2: what is It feels like something's on your mind, and
Speaker 2: she said, well, thinking about maybe having a child, you know,
Speaker 2: in the next few years, and I just need to
Speaker 2: kind of know, like is that going to be okay here?
Speaker 2: And the way she said it kind of broke my heart. Right,
Speaker 2: You could tell that she was worried that if she
Speaker 2: had a child that somehow she would be looked at
Speaker 2: as a less desirable candidate or somebody who wasn't contributing
Speaker 2: is enough to the office. I obviously told her, I
Speaker 2: was like, we want this to be a place where
Speaker 2: everyone feels welcome and you have a child whenever you want.
Speaker 2: It's our goal and our priority and our responsibility is
Speaker 2: a workplace to support that. But the fact that she
Speaker 2: felt that way, you know initially, you know, before we
Speaker 2: had a conversation about it, I started to see that
Speaker 2: pattern again and again that many people worry. And so
Speaker 2: I think as workplaces, if we can be proactive about
Speaker 2: signaling to people that we don't look at parenthood as
Speaker 2: somehow a handicap in any way, or is something that
Speaker 2: is going to make you less desirable in the workplace.
Speaker 2: I think that's really important. What I have found in
Speaker 2: my experience now over two terms as surge in general,
Speaker 2: having many people in the office who have come in
Speaker 2: as parents or would become parents. I don't find it
Speaker 2: like parents are somehow a dragon anyway in the office.
Speaker 2: If anything, I find they add invaluable perspective. They work
Speaker 2: incredibly hard. I mean, anyone who's a parent knows that
Speaker 2: it forces you to have to figure out how to
Speaker 2: manage time in pretty efficient and effective ways. So the
Speaker 2: parents in our office bring so much. But I do
Speaker 2: think that there is this fear that many of them
Speaker 2: have coming in that somehow that's going to be a
Speaker 2: strike against them. And as employers, it's our job to
Speaker 2: ensure that they know from the outset that we're creating
Speaker 2: an environment that's hospitable to everyone, including parents.
Speaker 1: So that's what workplaces can do to sort of protect
Speaker 1: parent health. What are things governments can do to reduce
Speaker 1: parents stress?
Speaker 2: Well, Governments can recognize that. I think a couple of things.
Speaker 2: One is that the financial challenges for parents are quite significant,
Speaker 2: and that's why strategies like having a child tax credit,
Speaker 2: which has been one of the most powerful strategies in
Speaker 2: recent years in lifting kids and families out of poverty.
Speaker 2: Making sure that we establish a sort of more long
Speaker 2: term child tax credit is really vital. I think also
Speaker 2: making sure that people have paid sick leave so they
Speaker 2: can be with sick kids. This is a policy governments
Speaker 2: can consider as well. And we know that childcare is
Speaker 2: just extraordinarily expensive for many parents across the country, and
Speaker 2: this is a place where I think policymakers can also
Speaker 2: make a difference. It's just important also for government so
Speaker 2: to recognize what is driving some of the stresses in
Speaker 2: addition to finances. We talked earlier in this conversation about
Speaker 2: tech and social media is being really important contributors to
Speaker 2: the stress many parents are contending with. Governments actually have
Speaker 2: a role in making social media safer, and this is
Speaker 2: something I called for, and certain Deal's advisory at Istion
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three on social media and Youth Mental
Speaker 2: Health laid out a series of steps that government can
Speaker 2: take to put in place safety standards to ensure that
Speaker 2: kids are protected from harmful contact and addictive features, to
Speaker 2: ensure that we have transparent access as parents and as
Speaker 2: scientific community to the data that companies have social media
Speaker 2: companies and the impact of their platforms on our kids.
Speaker 2: And finally, we've spent a lot of time of the
Speaker 2: last couple of years when I was in office, talking
Speaker 2: about the loneliness crisis in America and the profound impact
Speaker 2: that has on physical and mental health. And that is
Speaker 2: affecting kids, but it's also affecting parents, and so government
Speaker 2: can make important investments in what we think of as
Speaker 2: social infrastructure. These are the policies and programs and physical
Speaker 2: structures that actually enable and allow people to come together,
Speaker 2: that support existing programs in our communities that help people
Speaker 2: build relationships. And we might have taken that for granted
Speaker 2: over the years because tho's always existed, But in the
Speaker 2: last few decades in particular, we've seen a real decline
Speaker 2: in that social infrastructure, where few people are participating in
Speaker 2: recreational clas service organizations, faith organizations, and so we are
Speaker 2: fewer places to actually come together in person.
Speaker 1: We had my Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy on who talked
Speaker 1: a lot about the kinds of things that governments can
Speaker 1: do to build these so called third places thinking particularly
Speaker 1: about parents and supporting their communities. Do you have any
Speaker 1: specific ideas about how governments could intervene, specifically maybe local governments,
Speaker 1: of what they could do to build these support systems.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Look, I think in addition to the broader policy actions
Speaker 2: we've talked about, I do think that when local communities
Speaker 2: have places and spaces where parents can gather at hours
Speaker 2: that are actually manageable compatible with a parents' schedule, that
Speaker 2: makes it a huge, huge difference. I'll just give you
Speaker 2: some examples, like sometimes when there are music concerts that
Speaker 2: are taking place, but they're late in the evening or
Speaker 2: at night, that makes it challenging for parents to be
Speaker 2: able to go. Doesn't mean you shouldn't have nighttime concerts,
Speaker 2: but keep in mind, from time to time you also
Speaker 2: have some concerts that are like in the late afternoon
Speaker 2: on weekends. These make it feasible for parents to actually
Speaker 2: take their kids and families and come together. I also
Speaker 2: want to just underscore something that parents know, which is
Speaker 2: that parks actually are really helpful for parents. They are
Speaker 2: place where you can take your kids where they can play,
Speaker 2: entertain themselves, get physical activity. It is invaluable to have parks,
Speaker 2: but there are many communities where there aren't parks around,
Speaker 2: or they've been taken over by housing developments, or they've
Speaker 2: sort of fallen into ruin and they're not safer habitable anymore.
Speaker 2: These kind of green spaces and places where parents can
Speaker 2: come together and play is really invaluable. And so as
Speaker 2: local communities and governments think about the festivals, events, places
Speaker 2: that they build and develop, keep parents in mind, keep
Speaker 2: in mind that they are often desperate for places together,
Speaker 2: but that they need to be able to do it,
Speaker 2: you know, during daytime hours because that's when their kids
Speaker 2: are up. And when parents can come together with other
Speaker 2: parents at these kind of places, it can really help
Speaker 2: forge really powerful bonds. I'll maybe give you one last idea,
Speaker 2: which is actually building on something that we just released
Speaker 2: during my last few months as surch in General. But
Speaker 2: it was a product called Recipes for Connection. It's actually
Speaker 2: not recipes for food dishes. It's recipes for how to
Speaker 2: have gatherings around food. And the reason that we did
Speaker 2: this is a lot of people were telling us that
Speaker 2: they were struggling with loneliness. They wanted to gather people,
Speaker 2: but they weren't sure how, and they worried if they
Speaker 2: did so that maybe people wouldn't come over, maybe they
Speaker 2: didn't know how to cook, they wouldn't have anything to
Speaker 2: offer people. They had all of these worries and anxieties
Speaker 2: around gathering. So we put together recipes for connection to
Speaker 2: help people find ways to gather. There are all kinds
Speaker 2: of fun ideas and there. For example, you can have
Speaker 2: a childhood favorites pot luck right where everyone can just
Speaker 2: bring a dish that they loved when they were a kid.
Speaker 2: I just did this actually recently, and we not only
Speaker 2: got to eat the food that our mom's made and
Speaker 2: dad's made when we were kids, but we got to
Speaker 2: tell the story of our parents and we got to
Speaker 2: learn about each other in the process. These are the
Speaker 2: kind of events that you can imagine not just local government,
Speaker 2: but local organizations helping to sponsor in a neighborhood or
Speaker 2: helping to organize. But when we come together around food,
Speaker 2: around physical activity, around entertainment like music, and in spaces
Speaker 2: like green spaces that are hospitable for it, we can
Speaker 2: really help foster community and support for parents, and that
Speaker 2: can make a big, big difference in their lives.
Speaker 1: And so I imagine as sooner in general, where you
Speaker 1: put out reports like this, it really is hoping that
Speaker 1: we're really going to see these changes. Now, sometime after
Speaker 1: you put out the report, are you still feeling hopeful
Speaker 1: that we can make these changes and reduce parent stress?
Speaker 2: Actually, I'm feeling a lot more hopeful than even when
Speaker 2: I put out the advisory because of the response we've
Speaker 2: seemed to it. But the bottom line is, if we
Speaker 2: can see parenting as a societal priority, if we can
Speaker 2: monitor the well being of parents the way we do
Speaker 2: the well being of kids with just as much importance,
Speaker 2: my hope is that we can make a lot of progress.
Speaker 2: Because the truth is, when I was putting together this
Speaker 2: advisory on parents, I'll tell you I was shocked by
Speaker 2: how little high quality data there is out there on
Speaker 2: the mental health and well being of parents. It's almost
Speaker 2: like we somehow decided it didn't matter that much and
Speaker 2: didn't study them. But the data that is there, it
Speaker 2: paints a concerning picture, but one that we can actually
Speaker 2: address and ultimately get to solutions.
Speaker 1: If you're a parent listening right now, I know that
Speaker 1: things may seem impossibly challenging at times, but keep in
Speaker 1: mind that you're not alone. There are lots of caregivers
Speaker 1: struggling with many of the same challenges you are, and
Speaker 1: the good news is that there are actionable strategies you
Speaker 1: can use to feel better. To summarize some of the
Speaker 1: quick tips we've heard from doctor Murphy, remember that where
Speaker 1: you're doing day in and day out is important and difficult.
Speaker 1: Take time to give yourself some self compassion, commit to
Speaker 1: recognizing that social media is not real, and find ways
Speaker 1: to connect with other parents in as many small ways
Speaker 1: as you can. If you're an employer, remember that you
Speaker 1: need to protect parents in your workplace, especially now. It's
Speaker 1: crucial that management offers flexibility, comprehensive health insurance, and sick leave.
Speaker 1: And if you're a community leader, don't forget that accessible
Speaker 1: and inclusive public spaces are invaluable to families. That toddler
Speaker 1: eating sand like it's a Michelin star delicate. See One
Speaker 1: day he might be the person who solves climate change
Speaker 1: or cures cancer. Let's make sure his parents have the
Speaker 1: support they need today so they can raise the kind
Speaker 1: of person who will shape a better tomorrow. Big thanks
Speaker 1: to doctor Vivick Murty for sharing his insights on how
Speaker 1: we can help parents protect their mental health and this
Speaker 1: initial conversation is just the start of all the advice
Speaker 1: I'll be sharing on happier parenting. As I mentioned at
Speaker 1: the start of the show, I've just launched my new
Speaker 1: free online class, The Science of Well Being for Parents,
Speaker 1: which is available now on qursera dot org. You can
Speaker 1: also sign up on my website doctor Laurie Santos dot
Speaker 1: com slash parents. That's doctor Lauri Santos dot com slash parents.
Speaker 1: In next week's episode of The Happiness Lab, we'll tackle
Speaker 1: some ways that well meaning, deeply loving parents can inadvertently
Speaker 1: mess their kids up if they're not careful, and we'll
Speaker 1: learn how to do better, not just as a parent yourself,
Speaker 1: but also when you parent yourself. We'll explore the topic
Speaker 1: of healthier reparenting with two of my favorite champions of
Speaker 1: doing hard things to feel happier.
Speaker 3: We are a lesbian couple. We don't need to just
Speaker 3: understand each other. We need to overstand each other. So Lori,
Speaker 3: this is something that we spin around constantly because we
Speaker 3: do have a moment where we kind of wake up
Speaker 3: and we go, wait, is this who I really am?
Speaker 1: We'll hear from Glennon Doyle and Abby Wombach of the
Speaker 1: hit podcast We Can Do Hard Things next time. Until then,
Speaker 1: don't forget to head to doctor Lorisantos dot com slash
Speaker 1: parents for more happier parenting advice, and be sure to
Speaker 1: return for our next episode of the Happiness Lab with
Speaker 1: me Doctor Laurie Santos