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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative, I'm Bridget tout and this

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Speaker 1: is there Are No Girls on the Internet. Joey, thank

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Speaker 1: you for being here. Happy New Year. First newscast of

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: In Bridget Happy New Year.

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Speaker 1: So it being the new year, I have to start

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Speaker 1: with a question. Do you have any kind of online

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Speaker 1: New Year's resolutions? And maybe not even resolutions, things that

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Speaker 1: you are like, I am leaving this in twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 1: This is not I'm not bringing this with me to

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: Ooh. One thing.

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Speaker 3: I definitely at the end of the year when it

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Speaker 3: comes to like internet stuff, I'm you know, I was

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Speaker 3: on all the social medias and everything, and I was

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Speaker 3: like sort of trying to like downsize a little bit.

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Speaker 2: I was like I wanted to get rid of so

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Speaker 2: like I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I had a Snapchat account that I wade in like

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Speaker 3: high school that I was like, I don't use this anymore.

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Speaker 2: I'm deleting it. I deleted be real.

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Speaker 3: I know that that's been making a comeback like the

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Speaker 3: last month, but I was like, I don't use this.

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Speaker 3: I'm so yeah, I think I'm one of my things.

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Speaker 3: Sounds like I'm gonna be online, but it's gonna be

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Speaker 3: with like intention, Like I'm gonna not just gonna have

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Speaker 3: my like missile aedious accounts that I don't use. We'll

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Speaker 3: see how long that actually lasts. I will probably end

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Speaker 3: up making some new account to something and forgetting about it.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, that's the goal.

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Speaker 1: What a good thing, A good way to start the

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Speaker 1: new year. Like you know how we have like supring

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Speaker 1: cleaning or I'm gonnak. There's like a tradition where you

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Speaker 1: start the year with like cleaning out your physical space.

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Speaker 1: I like applying this to the digital just starting the

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Speaker 1: year fresh, those accounts that have just been lurking on

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Speaker 1: your phone that you're not really using actively or with intention,

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Speaker 1: getting rid of them and really kind of paring down

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Speaker 1: and being intentional about our digital use.

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Speaker 2: I love this exactly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm also like, I'm one of those people that

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Speaker 3: my phone is just like constantly telling me that my

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Speaker 3: iCloud is full and I don't have any space for anything.

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Speaker 3: So I'm trying to make sure I'm not just taking

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Speaker 3: up space on my phone and all that. But yeah, definitely, oh.

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Speaker 1: My god, I'm so bad about that I actually pay

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Speaker 1: for extra iCloud storage. I'm one of those people. So

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I would rather just pay a dollar a

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Speaker 1: month or whatever to not have to think about this

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Speaker 1: problem and not have to get those because there's a

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Speaker 1: thing more annoying than getting those those warnings like, oh

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Speaker 1: I've iCloud storage is low.

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Speaker 3: I never get it too, because like and then I

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Speaker 3: can keep teeking pictures like it never actually cuts me off,

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Speaker 3: and it just keeps.

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Speaker 1: Don't fully under this is embarrassing. I don't fully understand

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Speaker 1: how it works. I'm like, oh, well, I was like,

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Speaker 1: it's never stopped me from doing anything, but I they

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Speaker 1: do send those alerts all the time. One of my

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Speaker 1: in the new year, one of my digital behaviors that

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Speaker 1: I'm going to try to leave in twenty twenty three

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Speaker 1: is kind of getting worked up about small things on

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Speaker 1: social media. I will say making a podcast about the Internet,

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Speaker 1: like you really got to be tapped in and it

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Speaker 1: can't you. I do find myself getting annoyed at behavior

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Speaker 1: that is like, ultimately, if I take a step back,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, is this really do I really need to

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Speaker 1: be getting annoyed by this? The last thing I had

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Speaker 1: a big b in my bonnet about was how annoying

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Speaker 1: the ads on Twitter I have gotten. Have you have

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Speaker 1: you seen this?

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Speaker 2: Like, oh my god, they're out of control.

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Speaker 1: There's this one that I was getting where it's like

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Speaker 1: an ad for a bra and I don't even wear bras,

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Speaker 1: and so it's like this ad where it's like a

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Speaker 1: woman cutting a bra with scissors, and it just was

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Speaker 1: like an auto play video of a bra being cut

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Speaker 1: with scissors. And I was seeing it every freaking day,

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Speaker 1: and if I saw it one more time, I thought

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Speaker 1: I was going to scream. And then oftentimes the accounts

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Speaker 1: that are posting it are like they have a board

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Speaker 1: ape or like an nft avvy, and so I was like,

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Speaker 1: I don't want this board ape telling me what kind

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Speaker 1: of brought about it. Just didn't like it.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, God, that does I don't. Yeah, I

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Speaker 3: feel like that's a pretty good generalization. Not going to

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Speaker 3: take my broad advice from somebody with the bored ape

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Speaker 3: profile picture.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like I wouldn't take any kind of

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Speaker 1: life advice from somebody.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: If you got a board ape avy on Twitter and

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Speaker 1: there's nothing you can tell me that I need to know.

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Speaker 2: I feel literally, there was some tweet.

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Speaker 3: I don't even remember what the tweet was, but I

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Speaker 3: thought it was funny and I liked it. And then

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Speaker 3: I realized that the person had like a blue check mark,

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Speaker 3: and I immediately unliked it because I was like, no,

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Speaker 3: I feel this feels wrong. It feels like you shouldn't

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Speaker 3: be funny, Like I feel like you stole this from somebody.

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Speaker 3: You shouldn't have a blue check mark and be funny.

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Speaker 3: Like something wrong there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't get my laugh if you're also giving

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Speaker 1: you eight dollars, I love it. Okay, Well, I want

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Speaker 1: to start our first newscast of the year talking about

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Speaker 1: this really interesting new piece from Kate Lindsay and Bustle

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Speaker 1: that I've seen a lot of people sharing online called

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Speaker 1: dating apps are in their flop era. The peace posits

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Speaker 1: that if you met your partner or had a good

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Speaker 1: experience on a dating app like Hinge or Tinder, as

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Speaker 1: the piece said, you basically caught the last chopper out

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Speaker 1: of numb because apparently the dating apps are a hot mess. Now,

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Speaker 1: do you have any experience.

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Speaker 4: With dating apps?

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Speaker 2: That's fascinating.

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Speaker 3: This is the first that I've heard of this story.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I I'm single, I use dating apps. I

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Speaker 3: am like daunting in the beginning of gen Z, I guess,

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Speaker 3: but that is really interesting. I definitely have some weird

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Speaker 3: dating app stories, but uh, you know, I think, especially

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Speaker 3: as like the ways people date, it has kind of

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Speaker 3: been changing.

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Speaker 2: But uh, yeah, I know this is the first I'm

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Speaker 2: hearing at this. That's interesting.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So she writes, talk to your friends, scroll social media,

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Speaker 1: or even to sit in a bar and listen and

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Speaker 1: you'll encounter a similar sentiment. Millennials are tired of dating apps,

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Speaker 1: and gen Z singles might not bother with them. A

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three survey of college and grad students found

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Speaker 1: that seventy nine percent do not use dating apps even

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Speaker 1: once a month the peace fines. So it sounds like

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Speaker 1: the companies that run these dating apps are also feeling

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Speaker 1: this shift. Match Group, which owns a bunch of them,

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Speaker 1: tender hinge, match dot Com and Okaycupid, saw its stock

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Speaker 1: price drop forty percent in the past year. Bumble, whose

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Speaker 1: CEO Whitney wolf Heard, stepped down in November after ten

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Speaker 1: years at the app, and also Field is struggling through

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Speaker 1: a disastrous rebrand I actually the only dating app I

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Speaker 1: have ever used with any kind of regularity is Field.

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Speaker 1: It's an app that's like for queer people and like

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Speaker 1: non monogamous people, and like, I guess, like kinky people.

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Speaker 1: Field just had a really I guess. The only way

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Speaker 1: I can describe it as like disastrous rebrand that sounds

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Speaker 1: like a good bit to get into you on the

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Speaker 1: Patreon because like there, I have a lot to say

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Speaker 1: about it. But all of these apps, Field, Hinge, Bumble

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Speaker 1: Tender are really feeling this change. Match groups said that

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Speaker 1: they saw their paying users decline for the fourth straight quarter,

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Speaker 1: and a twenty twenty three p Research study found that

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Speaker 1: while forty one percent of online dating users age thirty

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Speaker 1: or older have paid for the apps, just two percent

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Speaker 1: of users under thirty, which is the demographic they are

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Speaker 1: really looking to court, have done the same. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just I just think it sounds like younger folks

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Speaker 1: are just like I'm good on these apps. What do

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Speaker 1: you think?

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Speaker 3: I definitely actually that I agree with. I don't know

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Speaker 3: anybody that I'm in my mid twenties. I don't know

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Speaker 3: anybody that pays for a dating app, but uh, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I definitely it's interesting too, like hearing that those stats

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Speaker 3: because I do think like of me and my peers

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Speaker 3: of people that I know that use dating apps, I

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Speaker 3: don't know a lot of people that use them, like thinking, yes,

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Speaker 3: this is how I'm going to find like a long

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Speaker 3: term relationship, like to be fully honest post people you know.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, like I use hine a lot. But

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Speaker 3: that's like there's like a thing where you can put

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Speaker 3: like what you're looking for. I don't think I've seen

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Speaker 3: a single person put like long just long term relationship

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Speaker 3: or whatever. It's all like just see what happens short

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Speaker 3: to relate, which is because I don't know, I feel

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Speaker 3: like that maybe it's also just like a that's how

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Speaker 3: my we're seeing dating now. That's interesting about field too,

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Speaker 3: because I was going to say the thing that I

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Speaker 3: keep so you got data apps is like and also

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Speaker 3: like I mean whatever, like I'm queer, I'm only I

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Speaker 3: only date other queer people. There's so many people that

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Speaker 3: are like non monogamous. I had to ask my little

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Speaker 3: brother what em meant over winter break. Kind though it

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Speaker 3: was really funny because he was my really is like

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Speaker 3: he's like nineteen, he's just like nono monography and I

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Speaker 3: was like, oh, okay, what like they already put that

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Speaker 3: monogamoust why don't we need to put that.

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Speaker 2: I also think this.

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Speaker 3: Is really funny because I'm like, does that mean, like

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Speaker 3: can somebody call themselves like unethically exactly?

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Speaker 2: I know, exactly, Like I was like, did I really

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Speaker 2: need to clarify at the goal?

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Speaker 3: And then of course my dad overheard this conversation and

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Speaker 3: we had to explain the concept of open relationships to him,

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Speaker 3: which was funny. But yeah, anyway, it's not too So

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Speaker 3: it's definitely there's you know, some generational thing. I don't know,

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Speaker 3: I'm all for people doing the non monogamy thing. You know,

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Speaker 3: there's different ways of data, different ways. But yeah, that's

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Speaker 3: definitely I think the majority of what I'm I've been

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Speaker 3: seeing on there, which I don't Again, I don't think

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Speaker 3: that's necessarily bad thing, but I can see, like from

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Speaker 3: a you know, the corporation's perspective, not having people paying

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Speaker 3: for the app or whatever is probably not great for them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: First of all, I have to say, I would have

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Speaker 1: loved to have been a fly on the wall in

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Speaker 1: the pet household during this conversation. Yeah, so it does

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Speaker 1: sound like exactly what you're saying is happening, that younger

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Speaker 1: people just aren't feeling the idea of paying for this experience,

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Speaker 1: and basically, you know, I guess I consider myself a millennial,

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Speaker 1: like a generation older than you, And for my generation,

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Speaker 1: dating apps and hookup apps were kind of considered the

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Speaker 1: norm of the millennial experience, right, Like they were part

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Speaker 1: of what it meant to be a young millennial when

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Speaker 1: I was coming up, and I think I kind of

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Speaker 1: came up in the heyday of those apps. I didn't

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Speaker 1: really use them myself, but a lot of my friends

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Speaker 1: did like that that was the thing. And I think

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Speaker 1: that for the younger generation it's just fatigue. I think

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Speaker 1: people are experiencing fatigue around these apps and just not

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Speaker 1: using them the way that they used to. I also

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Speaker 1: think the experience of like just swiping after swiping after swiping,

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Speaker 1: and then having to like go on the date and

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Speaker 1: be like, oh, do you have any siblings? Oh what

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Speaker 1: do you do? Like, I think there's there might be

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Speaker 1: a lot of feelings of exhaustion associated with the experience

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Speaker 1: and what it feels like to be on these apps,

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Speaker 1: and part of it does just sound like the experience

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Speaker 1: of showing up there kind of sucks. Now, the most

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Speaker 1: popular apps are free, but they really encourage you to

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Speaker 1: pay to interact with people, and basically it sounds like

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Speaker 1: they are paywalling all the good profiles on Hinge. You

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Speaker 1: might know this because you use it. You can only

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Speaker 1: interact with profiles of people who are getting lots of

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Speaker 1: attention or who the algorithm thinks that you might be

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Speaker 1: a good match for things that you might like if

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Speaker 1: you send them a rose. Users get one free rose

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Speaker 1: per week to send, and in order to regularly engage

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Speaker 1: with those standout profiles, you would need to buy more

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Speaker 1: roses starting at three ninety nine each, or limit your

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Speaker 1: options to Hinge's general algorithm, where it sounds like they

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Speaker 1: keep all the duds, all the people that they know

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Speaker 1: you're not gonna like they'll show you those people for free,

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Speaker 1: but if you want to see any of the like

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Speaker 1: good ones, you gotta pay.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting too, because again, like I said, like

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Speaker 3: i I'm on the queer side of Hinge, but like

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Speaker 3: I'll talk to my little sister about this, and like

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Speaker 3: she she's straight, and like she gets older, like and

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Speaker 3: it's a totally different experience like hinge is completely different

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Speaker 3: for her. I guess the one other thing I think

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Speaker 3: for the I don't know if this is part of

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Speaker 3: the generational thing, because I definitely do think like people

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Speaker 3: still use it, but I think with the especially people

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Speaker 3: looking at it more casually, like it's like playing a game.

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Speaker 2: Like it's like you're playing swipes, You're like, which, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I feel like sometimes like a lot more people that

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Speaker 3: I'll talk to you that are younger will look at

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Speaker 3: it almost like video game that you're playing, where it's

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Speaker 3: just like or like you're you're getting like points your

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Speaker 3: like sort of I don't know, I was talking to Okay,

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Speaker 3: now I'm terrified that somebody I'm matched with it on him.

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Speaker 2: Just gonna listen to this. If you are, I'm obviously

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Speaker 2: not talking about.

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Speaker 3: I'm not talking about that, but uh, like it's like

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Speaker 3: it's almost like a like it's like the serotonin boost

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Speaker 3: just like the appeal of it. Like I'm like, I'm

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Speaker 3: not even really looking for like any more than I

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Speaker 3: am in like any other space for like dating. It's

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Speaker 3: more just like the like, oh, like you're getting points

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Speaker 3: that show you you're attractive or whatever. Because people are

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Speaker 3: liking your profile. But yeah, I and I could definitely

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Speaker 3: And again a straight woman, I'm so sorry for y'all.

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Speaker 2: Like I'm sure you haven't, but just from talking to.

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Speaker 3: My sister, like my my handfull of straight friends, it's

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Speaker 3: it sounds rough.

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Speaker 2: It sounds rough, it does.

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Speaker 1: I have heard I mean, I should say like, I

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Speaker 1: have been off the market for a very long time,

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Speaker 1: so I don't I don't really know what it's like

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Speaker 1: out there, but I have heard horse about the kinds

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Speaker 1: of things that men will say and do to women

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Speaker 1: on first dates. It I yeah, I also feel for

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Speaker 1: people who are single dating. It doesn't sound like it's

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Speaker 1: always very fun, and it doesn't sound like the addition

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Speaker 1: of these apps, which at one time I do think

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Speaker 1: came with the promise of like, oh, you'll get to

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Speaker 1: swipe through lots of people and you'll get to go

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Speaker 1: on lots of dates and it will feel really good

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Speaker 1: and you'll you'll get to like have your pick. I

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Speaker 1: don't know that it feels that way anymore. So Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just I feel for everybody.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 1: And also I will say that the Rose thing, I

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Speaker 1: just think the vibes might feel weird, like if I

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Speaker 1: knew that somebody paid four dollars just to talk to me,

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Speaker 1: that our initial conversation. I just it doesn't feel like

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Speaker 1: the kind of vibe that I would want to start

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Speaker 1: a potential relationship with. And so I just feel like

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Speaker 1: that system might already be setting folks up for an

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Speaker 1: ex experience that just maybe feels a little bit weird.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I because it's I think unhinged.

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Speaker 3: You get like a free rose every day, but like

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Speaker 3: I honestly I don't think I've ever used them, and

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Speaker 3: like I've seen I don't know, like that's people who

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Speaker 3: sent me roses, you know.

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Speaker 2: But it's always like I never know what the like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the thing about dating apps is you're not

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Speaker 3: meaning in person, so it's hard to pick up like

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Speaker 3: the social cues or whatever. But I'm always like, I

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Speaker 3: don't even really know what that means, Like did you

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Speaker 3: just like really like my profile or were like, were

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Speaker 3: you like, I guess I'm gonna use my one rose

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Speaker 3: today whatever, like yeah, and it is a little weird,

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Speaker 3: like it is. I Yeah, I never thought about it

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Speaker 3: that way too, of like, oh, if you're paying what

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Speaker 3: like four dollars to see me, I don't know, that's

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Speaker 3: a lot of that feels like a lot of pressure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, pressure, the very vibe that starts out every good relationship,

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Speaker 1: every good romantic pairing. And so in the wake of

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Speaker 1: people sort of not feeling the vibes on these apps,

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Speaker 1: the companies themselves are trying to pivot. Like Tinder used

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Speaker 1: to be considered the hookup app, like the app that

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Speaker 1: was just for like if you want it, like for

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Speaker 1: people who wanted a booty call, right, But since gen

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Speaker 1: Z statistically is doing the casual hookup thing a lot less,

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Speaker 1: Tinder is sort of pivoting to service folks who say

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Speaker 1: they are looking for love and letting people pick and

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Speaker 1: describe the kind of relationships or interactions that they're looking

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Speaker 1: for on the app. So they're trying to pivot away

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Speaker 1: from being solely like a hookup app. I found this

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Speaker 1: really funny. Tinder has also become more kind of politically

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Speaker 1: and socially aware, trying to appeal to that gen Z

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Speaker 1: market that they're really going for. They know that gen

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Speaker 1: Z really cares about social and political clauses, and Melissa Hobbley,

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Speaker 1: the chief marketing officer at Tinder, says the lgbtqia plus

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Speaker 1: community is the fastest growing demo on the app, and

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Speaker 1: during Pride Month, Tinder helped connect eligible users with information

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Speaker 1: about a study that hopes to combat the FBA's bloodban

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Speaker 1: against gig donors. Tinder also launched an election center for

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Speaker 1: app users to access voter registration tools and locate their

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Speaker 1: polling stations, and allowed users to include a pro choice

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Speaker 1: interest on their profile. So all of that is meant

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Speaker 1: to really appeal to like younger folks who they're trying

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Speaker 1: to get to use these apps with more regularity.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. I remember when.

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Speaker 3: I because also I when I don't know, I got

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Speaker 3: back on dating apps, like a couple months ago, probably,

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Speaker 3: and I remember seeing that on tender.

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Speaker 2: I do have a Tinder somewhere.

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Speaker 3: I don't think i've used it, sounds I downloaded it,

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Speaker 3: but I remember seeing there were like things you could

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Speaker 3: like that you were interested in. Pro choice was one

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Speaker 3: of them, and I was like, that's sort of a

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Speaker 3: weird like interest. But I guess, like, okay, like I

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Speaker 3: don't know, I know Hinje also does the like you

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Speaker 3: can put your although it only gives you like liberal

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Speaker 3: and like conservative, which I think is interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's progressive, liberative, that's it. And I I honestly

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Speaker 1: think what is happening with these dating apps is like

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Speaker 1: well always seems to happen with social platforms online, right,

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Speaker 1: Like part of it is that I think that Hinge

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Speaker 1: was this big, standout mainstream dating app for a while

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Speaker 1: that made a big song and dance about how they

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Speaker 1: genuinely were interested in and invested in people meeting their matches.

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Speaker 1: Like their slogan was, oh, this is an app that

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Speaker 1: it's meant to be deleted because we want you to

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Speaker 1: find your person and then delete the app. However, like

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Speaker 1: most platforms dating platforms, they want your data. They are

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Speaker 1: interested in making money from your data. And once they

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Speaker 1: have gotten all they can from the data of the

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Speaker 1: maximum amount of users who are going to sign up,

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Speaker 1: then they are pivoting to wanting your money too. So

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Speaker 1: they're not designed to be deleted. They are designed to

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Speaker 1: make money off of people who use them, right, just

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Speaker 1: like that's why these apps exist. And so if that

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Speaker 1: means paywalling anybody that you might potentially be interested in,

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Speaker 1: they are going to do that. I read recently that

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Speaker 1: Tinder has launched this like super lux premium package for

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Speaker 1: five hundred dollars a month, where they were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: we'll have like super special algorithmic matching and even like

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Speaker 1: humans will help match people. Listen, if I'm paying five

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Speaker 1: hundred dollars a month for a dating site, the person

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Speaker 1: I meet there better also be like a valet and

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Speaker 1: a personal chef and all the things. But I just

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Speaker 1: think that they're just trying to like throw stuff at

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Speaker 1: the wall to see what sticks, to set themselves apart,

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Speaker 1: because people like I don't think they're offering people an experience.

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Speaker 1: It always feels good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I mean I think the.

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Speaker 2: Other I mean the other thing too.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if any if anybody who lives in

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Speaker 3: New York remembers the big advertisements that were all over

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Speaker 3: the Union Square subway station for I'm blaking out when

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Speaker 3: it was called, But it was some dating app that

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Speaker 3: was supposed to be like people that were like elite

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Speaker 3: and like had nice jobs. Belague had a four years

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Speaker 3: What it was.

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: I was.

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Speaker 2: I remember seeing that. I was like what like? I

402
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Speaker 2: was like what like?

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Speaker 3: I don't know that because that kind of I feel

404
00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,600
Speaker 3: like reminds me of this where it's like it's there's

405
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,240
Speaker 3: so many like hyper specific ones that I'm always like,

406
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,000
Speaker 3: is there really like enough people for this to work

407
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:07,479
Speaker 3: who like want to do I don't know. I had

408
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Speaker 3: a friend that signed up for the leak though, and

409
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Speaker 3: it sounded like a very interesting experience. Yeah No, that's

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Speaker 3: that's weird. I yeah, at that point, like five hundred dollars,

411
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Speaker 3: like just go back to finding a matchmaker or something

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Speaker 3: like the old I don't know, go old school exactly.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I again, I'm I'm I didn't really get

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Speaker 1: to experience the heyday of the apps, but everybody that

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Speaker 1: I've ever had a meaningful relationship with has been through

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Speaker 1: I've met through the original og hint, which is just

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Speaker 1: like having pushy friends who like to set people up

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Speaker 1: who won't take answer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my god.

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Speaker 1: And I guess, like, I don't know. I don't think

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Speaker 1: anybody should be spending five hundred dollars a month on

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Speaker 1: a dating a dating app. Absolutely not that money could

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Speaker 1: be better spent, for sure, But I just really feel

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Speaker 1: for people trying to meet people romantically these days, Like

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Speaker 1: it feels like what these apps are offering you, Like

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Speaker 1: there was a time where it felt like they were

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Speaker 1: offering an endless supply of potential matches. It was going

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Speaker 1: to be really fun, but it seems like now it's like, hey,

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Speaker 1: do you want this dud or do you want to

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Speaker 1: give us ten dollars a month or whatever? Right, And like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Dating should be fun and it should

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Speaker 1: be pleasurable. And I hope that people who are looking

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Speaker 1: to be romantically involved or partnered or having any kind

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Speaker 1: of whatever interaction they're seeking, I hope that they are

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Speaker 1: finding ways to do that that feel fulfilling and fun

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00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,080
Speaker 1: and gratifying, whether they're online or off. Because yeah, it

437
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 1: shouldn't just be a slog that mirrors the annoyances and

438
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,120
Speaker 1: exhaustion of showing up on social media platforms. Like that's

439
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,240
Speaker 1: not what romantic partnership is about, and like you deserve

440
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,879
Speaker 1: better than something that feels like a fucking slog. It's

441
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:46,680
Speaker 1: supposed to be fun.

442
00:20:52,080 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 4: Let's take a quick break, edder back.

443
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:13,560
Speaker 1: Speaking of not of unfulfilling online experiences full of things

444
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 1: that are bad. It was a clunky transition, but you

445
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 1: know where I'm going with this. Let's talk about Substack,

446
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 1: the newsletter platform. Substack has a bit of a Nazi problem.

447
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:29,920
Speaker 1: This week, Substack agreed to remove five newsletters featuring Nazi

448
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:34,160
Speaker 1: content that incited violence. This comes after almost two hundred writers,

449
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,639
Speaker 1: including Casey Newton, who runs Platformer, which I love, a

450
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,160
Speaker 1: prominent tech publication on substack, signed onto an open letter

451
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,600
Speaker 1: threatening to quit the platform if substack took no action.

452
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,960
Speaker 1: So this has been an ongoing problem. The Atlantic reported

453
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 1: that prominent white supremacists were using the platform substack not

454
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 1: just to spread their message, but also to earn money.

455
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 1: The Atlantic reported that Richard Spencer, who you might remember

456
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,320
Speaker 1: getting punched in the face the last time he was

457
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 1: here in my hometown of Washington, DC, which, by the way,

458
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 1: anybody like ask somebody who is in kind of or

459
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,240
Speaker 1: at least at that time sort of like more sort

460
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 1: of like lefty radical protest circles. Everybody that I knew

461
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 1: knew somebody who was claiming to be the guy who

462
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 1: punched Richard Spencer because he was wearing he was like

463
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 1: a lot like wearing all blacks, So like nobody knows

464
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:24,239
Speaker 1: who that person was.

465
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 2: I am reading it's actually me, It was actually me.

466
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 2: We are all all the puncher.

467
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 1: But Richard Spencer now is making like after being deplatformed

468
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 1: from most other social media platforms. He is making at

469
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,679
Speaker 1: least nine thousand dollars a year and potentially many times

470
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,919
Speaker 1: that from his Substack newsletter. And he is not alone

471
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 1: because Substack the company, takes ten percent of a cut

472
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 1: of any money earned on the platform from subscription fees.

473
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 1: Substack is essentially profiting from white supremacists who are also

474
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 1: breaking their terms of service that that explicitly bans attempts

475
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,400
Speaker 1: to publish content or fun initiatives that incite violence based

476
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 1: on protected classes. So in the letter that these prominent

477
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 1: writers and on Substack published, they said, from our perspective,

478
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,199
Speaker 1: as Substack publishers, it is unfathomable that someone with a

479
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 1: swastika avatar, who writes about quote the Jewish question, who

480
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: promotes the great Replacement theory, could be given the tools

481
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: to succeed on your platform, and yet you've been unable

482
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: to adequately explain your position. The letters reads, Substack has

483
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: always kind of had this public positioning where they were

484
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 1: going to treat content with a re content moderation with

485
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: a really light touch. However, as the letter accurately points out,

486
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: that is not true. They do choose to moderate some

487
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: content they including spam sides and newsletters written by sex workers,

488
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 1: and so it's they can't really be like, oh well,

489
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 1: we just allow everybody to express themselves, like we don't

490
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,640
Speaker 1: want to pick and choose like people. Anybody can show

491
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 1: up here. Why do they not allow content written and

492
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 1: buy sex workers on their platform. Hamish mackenzie, a Subsetet

493
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: co found or, defended the company's position back in December, saying,

494
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: I just want to make it clear that we don't

495
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: like nazis either. We wish no one held those views,

496
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: but some people do hold those and other extreme views.

497
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 1: He wrote, so basically being like, oh well, we're just

498
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 1: publishing the views people have. But again you might not

499
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 1: agree that with the profession of sex work, but sex

500
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 1: workers exist in society. So that if that is your

501
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 1: argument that we're just you know, platforming the views that

502
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,199
Speaker 1: people have and we're not making any kind of like

503
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,239
Speaker 1: statement about those views, why is that clearly you are

504
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: picking and choosing the views that you that you choose

505
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 1: the platform.

506
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

507
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 3: No, I'm going to like, honestly, and this is coming

508
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 3: from my again twenty something like just sort of whatever

509
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 3: experience I have, I think, like this whole issue or something,

510
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 3: I've kind of gone back and forth about a lot,

511
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 3: because yeah, it is like one of those things where

512
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, free speech want but like also obviously

513
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,919
Speaker 3: like I don't want neo Nazis. I don't want like

514
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 3: explicit you know, super right wing racist whatevers and of

515
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 3: Bhoba people. But yeah, but I feel like, oh, that

516
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 3: is side. That is side, whatever your beliefs are. If

517
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 3: you are as a company censoring people that, yeah, our

518
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 3: sex workers are doing stuff that you know, maybe not

519
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 3: even like leftists and like political sense, but sort of

520
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,959
Speaker 3: on the opposite set, like sort of side of like

521
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 3: whose voices are being heard that you're censoring them, You're

522
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 3: not censoring, Like, that's not an issue of we're censoring

523
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,959
Speaker 3: versus we're not censoring. That's just an issue of favoring

524
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 3: the neo Nazis over you know, anybody just trying.

525
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 2: To talk about their life experience.

526
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 1: Well exactly that like that's what these writers have said.

527
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: That it is not just that these like neo Nazi

528
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: white supremacists folks are being allowed to write on the platform.

529
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: At times, the platform has actually promoted that content. According

530
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,360
Speaker 1: to the Atlantic, Patrick Casey, a leader of a now

531
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: defunct neo Nazi group who has a subseac newsletter you

532
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: this is a substat recommendation feature to promote seven other

533
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: extremist newsletters. And so they'd also describe how, you know, substack,

534
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: if you make a certain amount of money to give

535
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: you a bed and like things like that, they are

536
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 1: using those things to I would argue, promote as a

537
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 1: company these beliefs and make money off of these beliefs

538
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: that they then say like, oh, well, we don't support it.

539
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 1: If you don't support it, why are you taking a

540
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: ten percent cut? Like that's but a very literal definition

541
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:26,959
Speaker 1: of supporting it.

542
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, And that's not you know, it's not like, oh,

543
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 3: we just have this platform and people are writing on

544
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 3: it and we have no say on what they're writing.

545
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 2: Like at that at that point, you're complicit.

546
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,199
Speaker 3: You're literally you're essentially what like on the on the

547
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 3: board of the like neo nazi publication, you know, exactly.

548
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: So after this outcry from these writers who submitted this

549
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: this letter, Substack this week did announce that they were

550
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: removing five existing publications that they said, we're breaking the

551
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: platform's rules with what they were posting. They said, if

552
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: and when we become aware of other content that violates

553
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: our guidelines, we will take appropriate action. They added, we

554
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: are actively working on more reporting tools that can be

555
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: used to flag content that potentially violates our guidelines, and

556
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 1: we will continue working on tools for user moderations so

557
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 1: Subtec users can set and refine the terms of their

558
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: own experience on the platform. And yeah, I just got

559
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 1: to say, like, there is an old adage in content

560
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: moderation of online spaces, which is if you don't explicitly

561
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,239
Speaker 1: and explicitly and specifically and loudly say that you are

562
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 1: not a place for Nazis to gather online, that is

563
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: how you get Nazis. And if you don't want Nazis,

564
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 1: you have to say no Nazis. And I think this

565
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 1: really proves it. Casey Newton of platform or one of

566
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: the big tech outlets that was behind this letter said

567
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: the Nazis did not commit the only atrocity in history,

568
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: but a platform that declines to remove their supporters is

569
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 1: telling you something important about itself. And I completely agree,

570
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: and honestly, like I am usually somebody who will take

571
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: any excuse to frame some thing as a win, like

572
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: even if it's a small win, something about this doesn't

573
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 1: smell right to me right, like removing five newsletters and

574
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: then being like, oh, well, you know what, years later

575
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: and after outcry and being pushed by these writers who

576
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 1: spoke up, We're finally going to do the bare minimum

577
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 1: of enforcing our existing terms of service and removing five newsletters.

578
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: They don't even say which newsletters were removed, and so

579
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 1: it just feels so low effort to me that it's

580
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: almost hard for me to call it a win. Like

581
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: I'm glad that these writers spoke up, and I'm grateful

582
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: for their organizing work to push them in the right direction,

583
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: But like that said Substack, like get it together. This

584
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: is such such a low it feels so low effort

585
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: that it feels barely worth aplauding.

586
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 3: Yeah. Also, I don't know the whole idea of users

587
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 3: setting in their own terms for what their users have

588
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 3: the option to change what they want to see. It's like, okay,

589
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 3: but then you're not really solving the problem because you're

590
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 3: putting it on the individual to like put what I

591
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 3: don't want to see nazis, which I feel like that.

592
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 2: Should be given. Yeah.

593
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 3: And also I mean going back to my state room before,

594
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 3: like when I say, like whatever preseeds obviously like Nazis

595
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 3: are bad. That's a pretty like easy station. And it's

596
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 3: really weird, Like, I know, it's crazy, my gay Jewish

597
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 3: self is coming out against the Nazis.

598
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 2: I guess, like I don't know, it's been so weird

599
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 2: the last couple of years.

600
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 3: Saying that has just become like it's like like that

601
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 3: should be the bare minimum statement and you can't be

602
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 3: like Nazis are bad. It's like whoa, that's I don't

603
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 3: know anyways, Yeah, like that that it just it just

604
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 3: it seems like it's not really going to fix the

605
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 3: problem if you're putting it on the users, because you know,

606
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 3: one things that the og Nazis were really good at

607
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 3: was propaganda and you know, sort of sanitizing their beliefs

608
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 3: or packaging their beliefs in a way that like the

609
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 3: average person would agree with it.

610
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 2: And you know, this is just giving them another avenue

611
00:29:59,040 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 2: to do that.

612
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: Yes, And I don't think that you know, your average

613
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: person who just wants to read stuff on subsack or

614
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: write on substack about their life or whatever should be

615
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: tasked with that Like that's a that like that is

616
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: a that is an organizational and a structural problem. And

617
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: I don't think, as you said, I don't think it

618
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: should be left up to people to have to filter

619
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: out that level of extremist content. Right. Obviously, if there's

620
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: like stuff that you don't want to see, it's good

621
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: for platforms to allow you customization. But this is so

622
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: far beyond a typical customization problem. Like clearly it is

623
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: an organizational structural problem that the powers that be at

624
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: subsect have to sort out. And like it is, if

625
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: you are not being paid by subsack, it should not

626
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: be your responsibility to figure out how to keep Nazi

627
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: content off of the platform, Like that is a that

628
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: is that burden should not be on us as the user,

629
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: like that should not be on the user end. And

630
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: speaking of hate speech on these platforms, so one of

631
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: my New Year's resolutions was to stop using Twitter so much.

632
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: TBD on how it is going so far, not well,

633
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: but that will probably mean spending more time on alternatives

634
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: like Threads. When we first checked in on Threads when

635
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: it launched, it felt like very brand safe to me,

636
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: and just I didn't feel like a cool platform. I

637
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: haven't spent a lot of time there yet, so like

638
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,719
Speaker 1: maybe that has changed. But one thing that has changed

639
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: on Threads is that people are reporting the platform is

640
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: flooded with more transphobic, pro life, antie porn, and islamophobic posts.

641
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: So hearing this, I logged in for the first time

642
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: in ages, and it didn't take long for me to

643
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: see this post from a user that I did not

644
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: follow and certainly like, don't follow any accounts that would

645
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: have recommended this to me. It was a tweet that

646
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: just said it's okay to be white. It's okay to

647
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: be white, like I saw bunch. Did you see that?

648
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 2: Oh my god, yeah I did.

649
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: So, just a really weird post, right.

650
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, this is I've been having the same experience

651
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 3: of like the only time because I also like, I

652
00:31:58,400 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 3: feel like I got the same sort of thing with Threads,

653
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 3: like I made it when I made a Threads account,

654
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 3: when I came out it's gonnact to my Instagram and everything,

655
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 3: but I am not. The only times I've opened it

656
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 3: is when I get in the Instagram feed, I'll get

657
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 3: like baited into clicking up like hate clicking on stuff

658
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 3: because yeah, I'll get like all the there's that thing

659
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 3: now where it shows you like recommended threads and they're

660
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 3: always like the most like inflammatory, like there's been a

661
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 3: lot of Islamophobic stuff or like very racist stuff that

662
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 3: I've seen, and then like that can't be real, And

663
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 3: then I'll click on it to like see the whole

664
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 3: thing and whatever.

665
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 2: It's very like rage baby kind of stuff.

666
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 3: But yeah, no, that's the only times I've opened thriads

667
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 3: have been to.

668
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 2: See those see those tweets in full and be like

669
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 2: is this really.

670
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: Something as Joey, Oh my god, I will this will

671
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: be the rest of the episode. But when I told

672
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: what I said up top that one of my plans

673
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: for the new year was to spend less time getting

674
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: bent out of shape about content like this, it is.

675
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: It was inspired in part by that that I know

676
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: exactly what you're talking about on Instagram where you're like,

677
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: who is saying what now? Then you click in and

678
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: if you're me, then you spend your whole day being like,

679
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 1: well this can't possibly, Like I needs to resources like

680
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: what's going on here? Before you know what, your knee

681
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: deep in some weird ass profile being like like what

682
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: is this? What is this ridiculousness that I'm looking at?

683
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,719
Speaker 1: On winter break when we were off, I spent an

684
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 1: entire half of day. I lost a whole half a

685
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: day to that process, and I was like, they got me.

686
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: It's it's total engagement rage bait. They want you to click,

687
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: maybe they want you to click by accident, and yeah,

688
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: I just it just it doesn't feel good, Like it's

689
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: like a crappy It feels crappy to have that experience online,

690
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: and it feels like more and more like that's what

691
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: platforms have to offer you, is engagement farming and rage

692
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,959
Speaker 1: baiting and then like exploiting your accidental click into something

693
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: with shocking, inflammatory content. It is infuriating. But I will

694
00:33:55,960 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: say that Facebook meta they are aware of this problem.

695
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: So in a statement to Mashable, Facebook acknowledge that some

696
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: users are being shown this type of repetitive, low quality content,

697
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: saying we want people to have a positive experience on

698
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: Threads and we're continually making improvements to what people see

699
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 1: on the app, in addition to removing content to violates

700
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: our community guidelines. We're aware that some people are seeing

701
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: this repetitive, low quality content they may not be interested in.

702
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: We're taking steps to address it. So I've read a

703
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: few responses on this from Adam Mosseerri Comma who some

704
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 1: listeners might remember as one of my personal enemies. But

705
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: all of his comments about it are like so general.

706
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: They're kind of like, oh, we're doing our best to

707
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: get it off the platform, YadA, YadA, YadA. But it

708
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: is clear that you need to have very clear rules,

709
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: very clear enforcement of those rules, and a way to

710
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 1: find it when those pieces of content are breaking the rules,

711
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: when users are doing it in a repetitive way, Like

712
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 1: it is not easy to run a text based social

713
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: media platform. I'll be the first person to admit it.

714
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 1: It is a paygrade far above me. However, it just yeah,

715
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: they've got to get it together because nobody wants to

716
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,240
Speaker 1: have the social platforms where it just feels scammy or baby.

717
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,879
Speaker 1: And I just think that most people have had their

718
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,879
Speaker 1: fill of experiences that feel that way online right now.

719
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, absolutely, because like especially looking at like, yeah,

720
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 3: the threads that would pop up on my feet that

721
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 3: would get recommended to me, there were all these things

722
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 3: that I was like, if you're taking my data and

723
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 3: you're like understanding the type of person that I am

724
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 3: and things I'm interested in and what my political beliefs are, like,

725
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 3: this is very clearly the opposite of that, like, is

726
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 3: the point of these just to get me to like

727
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 3: click on it because I'm yeah, like rage bait or

728
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 3: like confused, bait me into clicking on something I look,

729
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 3: which you know as a marketing strategy to get people

730
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 3: to use your app works.

731
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 2: Uh that make sound it's not very ethical.

732
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, I definitely Like every time like that happens, I'll

733
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,439
Speaker 3: take a second and like scroll, startscrolling through their eads

734
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 3: and be like when it's not first, I don't know

735
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 3: it is like the same rhymem Like I still feel

736
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 3: like it's like the social media platform itself hasn't really

737
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 3: like there's no real reason for me to go on

738
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,240
Speaker 3: in otherwise, So it's weird.

739
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 2: It's a weird situation.

740
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've come to see myself as someone who has

741
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: gotten more susceptible to the kind of rage, confusion, engagement

742
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 1: bait that you just described. I know, like I know

743
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: it when I see it, and I almost feel like

744
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:36,280
Speaker 1: the more learned I am about that kind of content somehow,

745
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: the more it gets me on Twitter. Like, if you

746
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: are a black person, a young black person who is

747
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: on Twitter, you probably are familiar with a certain kind

748
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 1: of post that you know it is just like I

749
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 1: can't I can't describe it, but you know when you

750
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: see it where it'll be like, there's there's a video

751
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 1: recently of a of three black women knocking on a

752
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: door at like knocking on a door of an apartment,

753
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: and the caps on Twitter was like, this girl was

754
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,320
Speaker 1: out until five am and her man changed the locks

755
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: on her. What do you all think about this? And

756
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: everybody is like, oh, like, why is it bad to

757
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,959
Speaker 1: go out at five am? And then people will being like, yeah,

758
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: like she deserves it, and something about those kinds of

759
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: posts where it's oh, it's always something like very inflammatory.

760
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: It might not even be true. It might be like

761
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: a skit that people are doing. That's a whole other

762
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 1: episode about how people are making skits, putting them online

763
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: as if they have been filmed, and then breaking in

764
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,879
Speaker 1: that sweet, sweet engagement when people react to it. I could,

765
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 1: I mean, we should do a whole episode on it,

766
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 1: because it's a common thing. But for whatever reason I am,

767
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 1: I am susceptible to that, Like I am not above that.

768
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 1: I find myself like scrolling the comments and I'm like,

769
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: why am I getting angry about this probably fake scenario

770
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: that has nothing to do with me, Like there's enough

771
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: stuff in the world for me to be reacting to

772
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: in my own life, Like why am I exposing myself

773
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: and getting myself bent out of shape about things that

774
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: are being presented to me specifically to react to. I

775
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: don't know, I'm going off in a tangent here, but

776
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: it's a problem and it doesn't feel good, and I agree.

777
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 2: With you.

778
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 3: More.

779
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: After a quick break, let's get right back into it. So,

780
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: speaking of scams and bait on social media and on Twitter, no,

781
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 1: the SEC did not register bitcoin on securities exchanges. Thank

782
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: you to listener Trisha Friedman for flagging this for us

783
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 1: to talk about. And if folks have stories that they

784
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: want us to talk about, you can always fly them

785
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: to us. So the official Twitter account of the United

786
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: States Securities and Exchange Commission SEC GUB was compromised this

787
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: week and sent out an unauthorized tweet. This is a

788
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: pretty big deal. Twitter officially says that they investigated and

789
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,240
Speaker 1: determined that it was not a breach of their systems,

790
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 1: but that somebody got a hold of somebody from the

791
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 1: SEC's phone, which did not have two factor authentication enabled,

792
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: and that's how they posted the fake tweet. The tweet

793
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:16,720
Speaker 1: said it does look like a US Securities and Exchange

794
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 1: Commission tweet. The tweet says, today the SEC grants approval

795
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 1: for bitcoin ETFs for listing on all registered national securities exchanges.

796
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 1: The approved bitcoin ETFs will be subject to ongoing surveillance

797
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: and compliance measures to ensure continued investor protection. So this

798
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,399
Speaker 1: would be a big deal had it been true, which

799
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: it's not. But that fake tweet did cause a brief

800
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: spike in bitcoin's value of around two point five percent

801
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: to nearly forty seven eight hundred and seventy dollars before

802
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: crashing around three point two percent from its original price.

803
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:52,240
Speaker 1: So Twitter, you know, they denied any responsibility for this incident,

804
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 1: so they say, I don't know, But what is clear

805
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: is that since Musk took over at Twitter, Twitter has

806
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 1: gotten a lot less secure. This piece in Wired puts

807
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 1: it really well, they say elon Musk's aggressive slashing of

808
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: the company's staff over the past year raised fears that

809
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 1: the cuts would leave Twitter unable to secure a platform

810
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: depended on by users that include high profile figures and

811
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: government agencies worldwide. One former Twitter information official sued Musk

812
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: and others for alleged wrongful termination after he was fired

813
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 1: for He claims in the lawsuit, arguing that the staff

814
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: cuts would interfere with Twitter's ability to comply with a

815
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 1: twenty eleven concent degree with the US Federal Trade Commission

816
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: to protect user's personal information. And yeah, I gotta say, like,

817
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: one of the reasons I want to use Twitter less

818
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,479
Speaker 1: is that I don't trust that somebody like Elon Musk

819
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: would keep my personal information secure and safe. And it

820
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 1: makes sense considering how he is, how he acts, how

821
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,800
Speaker 1: he shows up. Wired spoke to Alison Nixon, the chief

822
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 1: research officer for cybersecurity firm Unit twenty two one B,

823
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: which frequently deals with hackers accounts takeovers. She puts it

824
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: really well. She says, people put a lot of trust

825
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 1: into an entity that has stopped being a serious company.

826
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 1: If a government wants to be able to make statements

827
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 1: that people can rely on, they can't do that on

828
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: a platform that has a targeted account takeover problem. And yeah, like,

829
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 1: even if Musk is denying any kind of responsibility for this,

830
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 1: which he is, he certainly is not signaling that he

831
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: is taking it very seriously. Right after the news of

832
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,760
Speaker 1: the SEC's Twitter account being compromised. Broke Musk was joking

833
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 1: around about it on Twitter, responding to a post jokingly

834
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,240
Speaker 1: being like, oh, what's the SEC's password wrong answers only,

835
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: Musk responds LFG doge to the moon, which is like,

836
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: let's fucking go a joke about doge coin. The jokes,

837
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 1: I mean, like side note, the jokes aren't even ever

838
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,919
Speaker 1: funny with him, it's it's always some like stupid little

839
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: meme that was like cool five years ago. He gets

840
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: on everything very late. That's another thing about Elon Muska

841
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: can't stand.

842
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 2: It's the whole doge coin that, like doge is such

843
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 2: an old means it's old, like, oh my god.

844
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 3: I'm sure there's like teenagers that have like no idea,

845
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 3: what that even fucking me? Like, it's so old, that

846
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,399
Speaker 3: is so ridiculous, Oh my god, update your references.

847
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 1: And Tricia, the listener who flagged this story for us,

848
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: really made a good point, which is that for all

849
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 1: the handwringing that elected officials do about TikTok, it's such

850
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: a good reminder that TikTok is not the only platform

851
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: out there that folks need to be thinking about when

852
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 1: it comes to our digital security. You know, there was

853
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 1: a time where elected officials, campaigns, governments, et cetera. When

854
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 1: they needed to communicate quickly with us the public, it

855
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: was Twitter that they used, right, And so I don't

856
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: know if that's going to be the case going forward

857
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: with Musk at the Helm, but yeah, it so it

858
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: really does matter that it is a secure platform. And

859
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 1: speaking of Elon Musk, Joey, is there anything that you

860
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: want to ask me about Elon Musk?

861
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 3: Ooh, let's see where what like on the second week

862
00:42:55,200 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 3: to twenty twenty four, but still so excited to hear

863
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 3: what has Elan done now?

864
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 1: Well, Elon Musk is on Twitter dipping into straight race science.

865
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, It's one of those things that I

866
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: almost didn't want to talk about. So I'm like, oh this,

867
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 1: I can't stand this guy. But it does connect to

868
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: a lot of the conversation that's going on right now.

869
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: You know, we've done a few episodes on Bill Ackman

870
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 1: and Christopher Ruffo and their attempts to really create a

871
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: moral panic around DEI diversity equity and inclusion initiatives and

872
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 1: have had success in getting doctor Claudine Gay ousted from

873
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: her position at Harvard. Well, as y'all know, if it

874
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: is despicable people doing despicable stuff, you already know Elon

875
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: Musk is going to be involved in it in the

876
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 1: mix somehow. So yesterday he was engaged in with a

877
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:54,720
Speaker 1: tweet suggesting that historically black college graduates have quote borderline

878
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 1: intellectual impairment. So this pretty big account on Twitter, eyelash Ho,

879
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: which is account that like really spreads a lot of

880
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: junk race science, this account was talking about this program

881
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 1: from United Airlines that gives HBCU historically black college students

882
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 1: opportunities to interview with the company's career development program to

883
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 1: be pilots. Eyelash Ho says the mean IQ of grads

884
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,720
Speaker 1: from two of those United Airlines HBCU partners is about

885
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 1: eighty five to ninety based on the average SATs at

886
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 1: those schools. Side note that's just not true, that's made up.

887
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: He says, the SAT correlates reasonably well with IQ. The

888
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: HBCU IQ averages are within ten points of the threshold

889
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: for what's considered borderline intellectual impairment. I'll add that IQ

890
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: is a well studied and well known predictor of job performance,

891
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: especially for quick processing and mentally demanding occupations like major

892
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: airline pilot. So none of that is correct.

893
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 2: All that is wrong. True.

894
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, first of all, i Q is a totally like

895
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 3: arbitrary system and bacheloring intologies. Like we've known this for

896
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 3: a while, people still latch onto it.

897
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 2: It's like this is how you know, brain smart but

898
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 2: you know I yeah, no, I.

899
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 1: So even for as wrong and incorrect and silly and

900
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: junkie and bad science and all the other things as

901
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 1: that tweet is. Elon Musk basically co signed that tweet.

902
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: He replied, saying it will take an airplane crashing and

903
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,720
Speaker 1: killing hundreds of people for them to change this crazy

904
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 1: policy of d I E. Did you catch what he

905
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 1: did there? The policy is d E I, even if

906
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: he makes the letters around so it spells d I

907
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: E die. I don't know.

908
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 3: Oh so I'm sorry, Elon, Like don't don't don't throw

909
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 3: stones and glasshouses or whatever like that is you should

910
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 3: not be the one talking about people crashing and dying

911
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 3: with her.

912
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 1: Oh thank you about crashing and dying, homie, Let's get

913
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: your own cars. That is such a good point. Also,

914
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,959
Speaker 1: it's wild to me that they would be like we've

915
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: broke it, like the heure's the pithy slogan. If you

916
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 1: mix the letters around, it smells die, like get it

917
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,720
Speaker 1: on a billboard, like it's just it's it's the most.

918
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 3: It's like a uh like in Harry Potter when they

919
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 3: when like Boltimore it's name, like they turn.

920
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 2: It around and whatever. You're like, it actually mean says die.

921
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

922
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 1: And I just like this whole idea is just so silly, right,

923
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: Like this idea that because you have DEI initiatives side note,

924
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: like I feel like I have been in a position

925
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: of defending DEI the last few weeks because of what's

926
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 1: going on. But like DEI initiatives are basically toothless. They're

927
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 1: basically like meaningless. They're basically like they don't really they

928
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: have not really accomplished a lot. I was listening to

929
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 1: the podcast If Books Could Kill.

930
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:51,919
Speaker 2: They don't do much.

931
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: I was listening to the podcast If Books Could Kill.

932
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 1: And one of the points that they made, which is

933
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: a really good one, which is that if you were

934
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: a racist in twenty two for and you really wanted

935
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 1: your spaces to be all mostly white men and have

936
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 1: like white straight cists men in power, you should like

937
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 1: DEI initiatives because they have been so ineffective at actually

938
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,359
Speaker 1: making things more diverse and inclusive that you should be like, wow,

939
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 1: this is going great, Like I'm going to keep endorsing this. Yeah, right,

940
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 1: But however, this idea that like DEI initiatives mean that

941
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,839
Speaker 1: you have armies of black folks and brown folks and

942
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: other represented identities working in these places. It's just a fiction,

943
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 1: but that's what they're So they're basically creating a fiction

944
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 1: and then turning that fiction into a boogieyman and then

945
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: being like, ooh, I'm scared. I watched this Fox News

946
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: report about the Alaska Airlines flight where the door came off.

947
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 1: Did you see that?

948
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 2: I did?

949
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 1: Terrifying. But in the report on Fox News, they were like, oh, well,

950
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 1: diversity in pilots is to blame for this, Like it's DEI,

951
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 1: That's that's what the problem is here. And it's like, damn,

952
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: y'all will really blame us for anything now we're closing

953
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 1: plane problems, like you will blame us for anything? Hi, Okay,

954
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 1: Future bridget here popping in solo without Joey because we

955
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 1: just got an update on a story that I was

956
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 1: obsessed with even before I ever started doing these news

957
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 1: round up episodes, so I have to talk about it

958
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 1: with y'all. I don't think we ever actually talked about

959
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 1: this story on the newscast, but it's one of the

960
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 1: more bizarre, not to mention gruesome, tech stories that I

961
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 1: have heard in a long long time. Today, the online

962
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 1: auction site eBay has been ordered by a Massachusetts court

963
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 1: to pay three million dollars in damages after their employees

964
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:42,439
Speaker 1: and contractors waged what I can only describe as all

965
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 1: out psychological warfare on a Boston couple. That three million

966
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: dollars is the statutory maximum fine for eBay's charges, and

967
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 1: in my book, the couple they harassed deserves every penny

968
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: of it. So back in twenty nineteen, eBay senior executives

969
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: were annoyed that this couple, the Steiners, were running an

970
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 1: newsletter called e Commerce Bites about eBay that was meant

971
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: to give people who sell stuff on eBay and auction

972
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 1: sites information about the site, happenings with it, news, all

973
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 1: of that kind of stuff. According to Yahoo, this harassment

974
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 1: campaign began after Aina Steiner wrote a story in her

975
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 1: newsletter about a lawsuit brought by eBay that accused Amazon

976
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: of poaching its sellers. According to court records, about a

977
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: half an hour after Aina Steiner published this article, eBay's

978
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 1: then CEO, Devin Wehning sent another top executive a message saying, quote,

979
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 1: if you are ever going to take her down, now

980
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 1: is the time. That executive then sent his message to

981
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: James Ba, who was eBay's senior director of safety and security,

982
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 1: and he called Aina Steiner a quote bias troll who

983
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: needs to get burned down. After that, I guess Ba

984
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 1: was like, I am on it because he became the

985
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: ringleader of this harassment and intimidation campaign against the Steiners.

986
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 1: Side note, also, don't put stuff like this in an email, Like,

987
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 1: if you're ever going to to do something like this,

988
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 1: hopefully you're never waiting a crazy campaign of harassment and

989
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 1: intimidation against anybody. But if you're ever doing something where

990
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, it might be bad if someone were

991
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 1: to read these emails discuss it in person, your next

992
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,240
Speaker 1: email should be like, let's talk about it in person.

993
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: So eBay's head of security basically had other staffers send

994
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 1: disturbing packages to this couple's home, including a bloody pig mask,

995
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 1: an actual fetal pig, a box of live spiders, a

996
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 1: box of live cockroaches, pornography, and a funeral wreath, along

997
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 1: with a book called how to Grieve the Death of

998
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 1: a Spouse. So like pretty obviously meant to be a

999
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 1: threat or a way to intimidate them horrifying. The staffers

1000
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 1: also traveled to their home. They apparently had a plan

1001
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: when they found that their home was locked. They had

1002
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 1: a plan and tools to break into their home to

1003
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:55,240
Speaker 1: install a GPS tracking device on their car. They posted

1004
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 1: the couple's home addressed on Craigslist inviting randos to come

1005
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: to their house for sex parties. These were senior level

1006
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,760
Speaker 1: executives at eBay. Jim bah eBay, senior director of Safety

1007
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 1: and Security, was the ringleader, and he was sentenced to

1008
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: fifty seven months in prison back in September of twenty

1009
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 1: twenty two for his role in all of this. Six

1010
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,799
Speaker 1: other employees also face felony convictions for their involvement in this,

1011
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 1: which include charges of stalking, witness tampering, and obstruction of justice.

1012
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 1: Acting US Attorney from Massachusetts, Joseph S. Levy said eBay

1013
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 1: engaged in absolutely horrific criminal conduct and that the company's

1014
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: employees and contractors put victims through pure hell in a

1015
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:38,839
Speaker 1: petrifying campaign aimed at silencing their reporting and protecting the

1016
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:43,400
Speaker 1: eBay brand. Imagine doing serious federal jail time because you

1017
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 1: wanted to protect the brand eBay. So get this. eBay's

1018
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 1: then CEO, Devin Wenning, the one who was sending those

1019
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 1: emails about this couple who was harassed, was not criminally

1020
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:56,320
Speaker 1: charged with anything related to this, but he did step

1021
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: down from eBay in twenty nineteen after it all came

1022
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 1: to light. But James, the ringleader, his lawyers have said

1023
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 1: that he faced relentless pressure from Wedning and other top

1024
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 1: executives to do something about this couple. He led that

1025
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 1: he was then pushed out by the company when quote

1026
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 1: an army of outside lawyers descended to conduct an internal

1027
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 1: investigation aimed at saving the company and its top executives

1028
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 1: from prosecution. It really does sound like this started at

1029
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: the very tippy top, Like he, like the former CEO,

1030
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 1: Wedding was on those emails. So it does sound like

1031
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 1: this started at the very very tippy top, and that

1032
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 1: this behavior was not just tolerated but expected, but invited,

1033
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 1: but like all but asked to happen. And guess what

1034
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:44,880
Speaker 1: that former eBay executive wedding. Even though he has not

1035
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 1: been charged with a crime, it is not like he

1036
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:49,879
Speaker 1: is laying low after overseeing a company where this kind

1037
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 1: of criminal behavior happened. Today, he is the CEO of

1038
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 1: Symbolically AI, a company that he co founded that is

1039
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 1: supposed to use AI to help writers and publishers. On

1040
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: his web site, he lists all the great accomplishments that

1041
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 1: he oversaw when he was at eBay, but conveniently does

1042
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:12,320
Speaker 1: not list overseeing a criminal harassment campaign. Okay, so we

1043
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: got to talk about this new SAG agreement. This summer,

1044
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 1: actors and screenwriters were in a big standoff with studios

1045
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 1: in part over AI in what folks like me called

1046
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 1: hot labor summer. Basically, the question was could studios use

1047
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,720
Speaker 1: the likeness of actors without their consent to make AI

1048
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 1: versions of them they could use forever and ever and

1049
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:35,400
Speaker 1: ever without paying up. Well, this week SAG after the

1050
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 1: union representing more than one hundred and fifty thousand film

1051
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 1: and TV performers, announced a deal that sets terms for

1052
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,279
Speaker 1: the use of AI voices in video games. So the

1053
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: deal is with Replica Studios, an AI Voice Technology Company,

1054
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 1: and it establishes protections around the licensing of digitally replicated voices.

1055
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 1: Duncan Crabtree Ireland, who is sag Actress National executive director,

1056
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 1: told NBC News, I think what's really important about this

1057
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 1: agreement is the fact that it es protection for all

1058
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: performers at all levels in the industry, and the fact

1059
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 1: is a lot of times performers who may not be

1060
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 1: famous names really need that protection even more because their

1061
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:11,880
Speaker 1: bargaining leverage to negotiate those kinds of things individually is

1062
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:14,400
Speaker 1: not as great. So one of the big pieces of

1063
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 1: how performers are thinking about the use of AI is

1064
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 1: whether or not their voices and likenesses can be used

1065
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 1: after they die, which is like pretty creepy. Crampchee Ireland

1066
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 1: said that posthumous deals are possible with the consent of

1067
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 1: whoever the estate has designated to act on the deceased

1068
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:33,319
Speaker 1: performers behalf. So I was our I was sort of

1069
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 1: like set to be like, oh, that's great, that's good,

1070
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 1: Like I'm so happy they have a deal in place. However,

1071
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: after doing a little more research, I came to find

1072
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: that a lot of performers are either a angry about

1073
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:47,839
Speaker 1: this deal or be skeptical of this deal and still

1074
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:49,760
Speaker 1: have more questions. Like I went to the social media

1075
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 1: posts that were announcing this agreement, and several people were

1076
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,840
Speaker 1: expressing frustration with this agreement and the announcement, saying that

1077
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:57,800
Speaker 1: they did not feel like the Union had done a

1078
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 1: good enough job of representing their interests as it pertains

1079
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,400
Speaker 1: to AI or even just like educating them on what

1080
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 1: they need to know about this agreement. And I don't know.

1081
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:08,399
Speaker 1: I think it's one of those stories where we will

1082
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 1: definitely keep an eye on it and give updates where

1083
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 1: there are updates. But yeah, it sounds like maybe the

1084
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,839
Speaker 1: folks who are being represented here and the folks who

1085
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: are doing the negotiating there might be a little bit

1086
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,319
Speaker 1: of daylight in between what they what both of those

1087
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 1: parties see as their best interests, and whether or not

1088
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 1: they're being represented.

1089
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:28,840
Speaker 2: Definitely.

1090
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have a lot of friends who are actors

1091
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 3: in my life, so this is something I've been like

1092
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 3: hearing about from them.

1093
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 2: People are not happy with this agreement, and like, I

1094
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 2: totally understand it.

1095
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 3: And it's interesting because I so like I as an

1096
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 3: iHeart employee, like I'm part of the writers guild and

1097
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:51,359
Speaker 3: we weren't on a strike. It was just the film

1098
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 3: and Television division. We were in a different division. But

1099
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:56,839
Speaker 3: it was interesting because I feel like with the writer's strike,

1100
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,720
Speaker 3: there was a lot more like transparency about what was happening.

1101
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:02,879
Speaker 3: Obviously it's not perfect, but like you know, I felt

1102
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 3: like at least like even as somebody who was not

1103
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 3: in the division that was on strike, like I had

1104
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 3: kind of an idea what was happening and like what

1105
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 3: the deal was, and like what the like kind of negotiation,

1106
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:14,319
Speaker 3: how that was going. And I feel like there has

1107
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 3: there was a lot of like muddyins around the sag

1108
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:24,799
Speaker 3: the negotiations and and yeah again like just from from

1109
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,960
Speaker 3: my friends that are dealing with this because it's their careers,

1110
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 3: they don't seem to be happy. And I also remember

1111
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 3: like looking at the stag Instagram hosts like look.

1112
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:35,120
Speaker 2: Open again the comments and tak a bunch of people

1113
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 2: that are like I.

1114
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 3: Don't like especially even when like the contract was announced,

1115
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 3: there were a bunch of videos that were going around

1116
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 3: from like really prominent actors being like oh yes on this,

1117
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 3: like and it was like, why do you have to

1118
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 3: advertise to people about yes, like it should be a

1119
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,719
Speaker 3: thing where it's just like, yeah, look we have a

1120
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 3: good deal.

1121
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 2: Do you support it or not? I don't know.

1122
00:56:56,440 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 3: And yeah, so this whole thing, I wish the best

1123
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 3: to Sag and uh tak all of the actors everywhere

1124
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 3: that I have to deal with all of this.

1125
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 2: Solidarity. Again, it's it's rough out here.

1126
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you. And honestly, like these performers who

1127
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 1: are worried about things like their likeness being used via

1128
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 1: AI after they're dead, that sounds very creepy and futuristic,

1129
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 1: but they're not. That's not an out there concern because

1130
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 1: just this week, comedy icon stand up legend George Carlin

1131
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 1: released a new comedy special, which is very impressive considering

1132
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 1: he's been dead since two thousand and eight. And the

1133
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 1: special is called I'm Glad I'm Dead. It is from Dootecy.

1134
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 1: I'm getting this from Variety. I'm about to say this,

1135
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 1: but I'm not totally sure what it means. Dudecy coma

1136
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 1: a comedy AI that hosts a podcast and YouTube show

1137
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 1: with Mad TV alum Will Sasso and podcaster Chad Koltkin.

1138
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means. So like is dude,

1139
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 1: see AI, like like, like what is what is the

1140
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 1: AI entity.

1141
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 3: In this sounds like a like an onion article like

1142
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:13,160
Speaker 3: that I don't know that George Carlin specifically, Like I

1143
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:15,560
Speaker 3: cannot think of somebody who would probably be.

1144
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 2: Like more angry at the fact that I used for

1145
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 2: like an ar totally.

1146
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 1: Like this is how you get haunted by like a

1147
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 1: spirit that anytime you're trying to concentrate like whispers pity

1148
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 1: little observations about the society in your years, like you

1149
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 1: want to be haunted by the ghost of George Carlin,

1150
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 1: Like this is how you get haunted by the George

1151
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 1: a ghost of.

1152
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 3: George Carlin, which I would love to be haunted by

1153
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 3: the gast of George Carlan, but like in a fun way,

1154
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 3: like it's like like like my little buddy, it's just

1155
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 3: giving me life advice, not in whatever it's going to

1156
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 3: come to these guys, like that's gonna be something different.

1157
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 1: Okay, So I'm so confused about what this entity Dudecy is.

1158
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 1: This is from their website. Will Sasso and Chad Colkin

1159
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 1: have been selected by a state of the art entertained

1160
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 1: meant AI to host this first of its kind comedy podcast.

1161
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:05,160
Speaker 2: So they were selected by the AI.

1162
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's a joke or not.

1163
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:07,840
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1164
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm reading. It goes on to say,

1165
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 1: our hosts have been convinced to grant the dudeesy AI

1166
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 1: access to all of their personal emails, text messages, social

1167
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 1: media accounts, purchases and browsing histories so that it can

1168
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 1: tailor the show to their specific personalities and entertain you

1169
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:26,520
Speaker 1: at the highest level possible. I don't like, I don't

1170
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 1: understand what I'm reading.

1171
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 3: This whole thing, Like this sounds like it's a George

1172
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 3: carl They've been granted permission by like the AI.

1173
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1174
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 2: Like that's how I am.

1175
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 1: I am confused. I am so I'll go on. So

1176
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:47,120
Speaker 1: Dutecy starts off the comedy special with this. I want

1177
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 1: to let you know very clearly that what you're about

1178
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 1: to hear is not George Carlin, and it's my impersonation

1179
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 1: of George Carlin that I developed in the same way

1180
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: that a human impressionist would. I listened to all of

1181
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:00,600
Speaker 1: George Carlin's material and did my best to imitate his voice, cadence,

1182
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 1: an attitude as well as subject matter. I think that

1183
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 1: would have interested him today. So think of it like

1184
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 1: Andy coffin perceading Elvis, or like Will Ferrell in persuading

1185
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 1: George W.

1186
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 4: Bush.

1187
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: So I see what dudec is doing there, but like

1188
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 1: he's trying to make us be like, oh, well, this

1189
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 1: is a more common thing for comedians than you think.

1190
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 1: But he's naming comedians who impersonate non comedians, Like it's

1191
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 1: not like Will Ferrell in persading George W. Bush. It's

1192
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:28,920
Speaker 1: more like Dave Chappelle and persading Richard pryor, like it's

1193
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:30,920
Speaker 1: like a comedian and persading another comedian.

1194
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 2: This just sounds like the most annoying dude at the part,

1195
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's like, do you want to hear

1196
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 2: my George Carlin impression? Like whatever, Like yeah, oh my god, yes.

1197
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 1: And I'm not even sure if that dude is a

1198
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:44,919
Speaker 1: dude or AI, Like I'm not again, I'm not, I'm

1199
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 1: not sure like what they're trying to tell me here.

1200
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 1: So but I can confirm to you per variety that

1201
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 1: it is an AI generated impression of Carlin. I don't

1202
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 1: know in what way this traditionally counts as an impersonation,

1203
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 1: but there you have it. So this special has Carlin

1204
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 1: commenting on things in tech that he never got to

1205
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 1: see because he died in two thousand and eight, like

1206
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 1: Elon Musk buying Twitter and Jeff Bezos's rocket launch into

1207
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 1: space in twenty twenty two. You know what they did

1208
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 1: forget to do, though, is get any kind of permission

1209
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 1: from George Carlin's very much still alive family member. His

1210
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 1: daughter Kelly Carlin, posted on Twitter saying, my dad spent

1211
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 1: a lifetime perfecting his craft from his very human life,

1212
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 1: brain and imagination. No machine will ever replace his genius.

1213
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 1: These AI generated products are clever attempts at trying to

1214
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 1: recreate a mind that will never exist again. Let the

1215
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 1: artists work speak for itself. Humans are so afraid of

1216
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:41,479
Speaker 1: the void that we can't let what's fallen into it

1217
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:44,920
Speaker 1: stay there. Here's an idea, how about we give some actual,

1218
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:47,480
Speaker 1: living human comedians a listen to. But if you want

1219
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 1: to listen to the genuine George Carlin, he has fourteen

1220
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 1: specials that you can find anywhere. So I hate that

1221
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 1: she has to make that statement, but I really appreciated it.

1222
01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:01,760
Speaker 1: And yeah, like you were saying, all the comedians that

1223
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 1: I feel like would not have rocked with this. I

1224
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:11,120
Speaker 1: feel like George Carlin especially would not have rocked with this. Yeah, yeah,

1225
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:14,440
Speaker 1: and I love George Carlin. There is a bit like

1226
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:17,680
Speaker 1: I actually just finished edits on an op ed that

1227
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 1: opens with a George Carlin bit. I reference it on

1228
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 1: the show like all the time. You'll probably are sick

1229
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 1: of me saying it, But I have gotten more wisdom

1230
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:27,680
Speaker 1: and use out of this one George Carlin bit that

1231
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 1: I have gotten from anything I've ever encountered in a

1232
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:33,240
Speaker 1: philosophy book or a college course. And that is his

1233
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:38,440
Speaker 1: shit versus stuff bit. You ever notice how your stuff

1234
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:41,160
Speaker 1: is stuff and everybody else's stuff is shit. This is

1235
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 1: not me trying to do an impersonation with him. I

1236
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 1: literally quote it all the time, but that one there,

1237
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: I feel like there is more insight into the human

1238
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 1: condition and how we all live in a society together

1239
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 1: in that bit than anything else I've ever read. And

1240
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 1: it bumps me out. Like the idea of comedians or

1241
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:03,680
Speaker 1: podcasters trying to re create that using AI, It's like, yeah,

1242
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 1: let the work stand for itself. Not everything needs to

1243
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 1: be a AI generated copy of something that was good.

1244
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:14,360
Speaker 1: That copy probably wouldn't even be good and his daughter's

1245
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 1: not into it, so don't do this. I just really

1246
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 1: hate this. Thanks so much for being here, Joey. Where

1247
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 1: can folks keep up with all your awesome work.

1248
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:26,080
Speaker 3: You can find me on social media Att Pratt that's

1249
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 3: p A T T n O T p R A

1250
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:32,760
Speaker 3: T T. And if you want to listen to my

1251
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,360
Speaker 3: other work, you can check out after Lives, the Lealian

1252
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 3: Planco story.

1253
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:41,440
Speaker 2: We just finished up the kind of main arc.

1254
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:44,919
Speaker 3: We're posting some sort of bonus content and longer interviews

1255
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:47,760
Speaker 3: at the moment, but you should definitely check that out.

1256
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 2: Super important story.

1257
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks so much for being here, Thanks so much

1258
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 1: for all your great work, and thanks to all of

1259
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 1: you for listening. You can find me on social media.

1260
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 1: You can hit me up on email at Hello at

1261
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 1: tango dot com, and you can check out more and

1262
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:04,280
Speaker 1: free content at our patreon at tignoity dot com slash Patreon.

1263
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 1: If you're looking for ways to support the show, check

1264
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:15,440
Speaker 1: out our March store at tangody dot com slash store.

1265
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 1: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or

1266
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 1: just want to say hi, You can reach us at

1267
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:23,320
Speaker 1: Hello at tangodi dot com. You can also find transcripts

1268
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 1: for today's episode at tegoity dot com. There Are No

1269
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 1: Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Tod.

1270
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 1: It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unboss Creative, edited by

1271
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 1: Joey pat Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. Tari Harrison

1272
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:38,480
Speaker 1: is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Almada is our

1273
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 1: contributing producer. I'm your host, bridget Tood. If you want

1274
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 1: to help us grow, rate and review.

1275
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 4: Us on Apple Podcasts.

1276
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app,

1277
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.