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Speaker 1: Buddy Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. I don't know about y'all,

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Speaker 1: but when I was a little boy, I was given

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Speaker 1: a magnifying glass, and it was probably one of the

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Speaker 1: most wondrous gifts that I ever had. I would go

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Speaker 1: about in my grandmother's backyard in North Louisiana, and I

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Speaker 1: would look at everything from blades of grass to sand.

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Speaker 1: I had a huge sandpile. I was fascinated by how

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Speaker 1: sand looked under high magnification. You pick out all of

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Speaker 1: these details that exist. But you know, being a young boy,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that I was also fascinated by

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Speaker 1: was the ability to concentrate the intensity of the sun's

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Speaker 1: light and the subsequent heat that resulted from that. Started

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Speaker 1: out burning leaves and that sort of thing, and when

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Speaker 1: that didn't satisfy me, I find ants and other bugs.

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Speaker 1: But there was something within me that I retreated from it.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't do it over a period of time because

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Speaker 1: I began to actually feel bad about burning ants. There

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Speaker 1: are people among us that don't have the capacity, I think,

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Speaker 1: to understand the pain of others, whether they be insects

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Speaker 1: or fellow human beings. Today, we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: one such person, a person by the name of Stephen Lorenzo,

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Speaker 1: who I'll go ahead and tell you now wound up

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Speaker 1: being convicted of two deaths, but he is associated with

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Speaker 1: the torture of many, many others, a few of which survived.

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Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body backs. Brother Dave.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever have those cases that when we begin

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Speaker 1: to kind of talk about them and read through these details,

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Speaker 1: they kind of set your teeth on edge, that kind

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Speaker 1: of make you squirm a little bit.

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Speaker 2: When you get into the nitty gritty. Steven Lorenzo, every

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Speaker 2: way you turn, there's something more evil than the last thing.

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Speaker 2: Just to give everybody a bird's eye view, we're talking

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Speaker 2: about crimes that happened in two thousand and three and

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Speaker 2: just got a sentence this year, twenty years later. And

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Speaker 2: I want to know, first of all, what is GHB

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Speaker 2: because it plays a big role. I know we've heard

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Speaker 2: it called the day rape drug, but I need to

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Speaker 2: know what it is, what it does, because this is

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Speaker 2: where Steven Lorenzo and his roommate started trolling gay clubs

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Speaker 2: in Tampa in two thousand and three. A number of

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Speaker 2: gay men went missing in the Tampa, Florida area in

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Speaker 2: Tampa Bay and Stephen Lorenzo and his roommate actually went

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Speaker 2: picked up these guys in gay bars, went back to

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Speaker 2: Lorenzo's house and they tortured these men. Some of the

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Speaker 2: men have no memory whatsoever of what took place. They

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Speaker 2: just knew the after effects. They knew they had marks

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Speaker 2: on their body, and didn't remember how they happened. We

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Speaker 2: have two of them that died, one never found and

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Speaker 2: one that was basically laid out on display in his

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Speaker 2: own vehicle in his apartment complex parking area. That's who

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Speaker 2: Stephen Lorenzo is in terms of a murderer and damager

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Speaker 2: of people. Did I just make up a word damager?

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Speaker 1: Well, okay, I'll allow it. In the words of the hangover, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll allow it. GHP. It is a drug that really

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Speaker 1: serves no purpose whatsoever. It's something that is essentially produced illegally,

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Speaker 1: and it's the actual name is gamma hydroxy buterrate. It's

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Speaker 1: a compound that is created generally in a clandestine lab

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Speaker 1: and it has been around now for years. And let

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Speaker 1: me give you some of the other and before I

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Speaker 1: get into the nature of it, let me give you

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Speaker 1: some of the other names that it goes by, and

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Speaker 1: this actually comes from the DEA and these are the

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Speaker 1: names that you encounter on the street. So just bear

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Speaker 1: with me one second. The first one ought to give

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Speaker 1: you an idea right out of the box. The first

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Speaker 1: one is it's called easy lay l A y G standalone, Georgia,

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Speaker 1: Homeboy GHB, obviously, goop, grievous, get this one. You're ready

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Speaker 1: for this one. Grievous, bodily harm. Does that kind of

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Speaker 1: paint a picture? Liquid ecstasy liquid X and scoop is

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Speaker 1: another one, uh, and it you can find it in

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Speaker 1: a powder form. It's liquified as well. Here's kind of

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Speaker 1: the insidious part to this. It has no color in

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Speaker 1: the liquid form, it has no odor, and it's tasteless.

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Speaker 1: So you could just be hanging out in a bar

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Speaker 1: and anyone that has just a dropper of this, and

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Speaker 1: it doesn't take much, just put a tiny little drop

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Speaker 1: into someone's drink and what will generally happen is that

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Speaker 1: the person will be in to experience some level of euphoria.

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Speaker 1: But as this drug goes to work, particularly in the

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Speaker 1: long term, you develop almost a temporary amnesia. Dave, and

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Speaker 1: you know what, you were saying, you got these guys

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Speaker 1: out there that have gotten marks all over their bodies,

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Speaker 1: And can you imagine waking up on the side of

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Speaker 1: the road somewhere at some point in time, and you've

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Speaker 1: got marks all over your body and you can't explain them.

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Speaker 1: How bizarre would that be?

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Speaker 2: If you were in a bar and everybody's dancing and

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Speaker 2: having a good time, and you have this little bial

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Speaker 2: of liquid, just a little bit, and somebody turns their

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Speaker 2: back and you just reach over and pour it in

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Speaker 2: their drink, and that's all it would take to basically

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Speaker 2: render this person it within a matter of a short

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Speaker 2: period of time, rendered them unable to defend themselves. Is

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Speaker 2: that what we're talking about here?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And there are some people that actually take

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Speaker 1: it recreationally, if you can imagine that, because they The

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Speaker 1: idea is that, first off, all inhibitions go out the window.

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Speaker 1: The pharmacology types that study it have noted that in

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Speaker 1: test subjects that there's an increase in libido, that is,

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Speaker 1: you know, your sex drive is kicked into high gear.

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Speaker 1: There's also and here's another part of this. Then listen

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Speaker 1: to this suggestibility that is that if you are applied

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Speaker 1: with a drug, it makes you compliant, and the person

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Speaker 1: that is applying the drug has targeted this individual man

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Speaker 1: or woman. They're watching this individual maybe from across the room,

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Speaker 1: and what they're looking for is to somebody for somebody

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Speaker 1: that's not protecting their drink, because that's the easiest way

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Speaker 1: to get it on board if you're doing it and

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Speaker 1: you want to go unnoticed. And maybe the more intoxicated

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Speaker 1: an individual becomes, you lose a sense of awareness anyway,

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Speaker 1: kind of woozy anyway. I'm not saying you're in a

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Speaker 1: dream state, but you might not be as on your

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Speaker 1: game otherwise. And then you've got this person that means

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Speaker 1: to do you harm in the worst way possible.

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Speaker 2: On top of those feelings of everything you're describing, the

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Speaker 2: mood it puts you in, and the physical inability you

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Speaker 2: have to actually be your best version of yourself. Now

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Speaker 2: you've got Steven Lorenzo and his roommate Scott Schweikert. These

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Speaker 2: two guys actually connected with one another online in Cana

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Speaker 2: in chat rooms online talking about fantasies of rape and

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Speaker 2: all this other crazy stuff online, so that when they

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Speaker 2: became roommates and then got the GHB and went into

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Speaker 2: the gay clubs of Tampa. Holy moly, Joe, it's not

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Speaker 2: just one guy at the bar talking to you. One

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Speaker 2: of these guys could have been sitting off to the

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Speaker 2: side watching as the drug takes effect on the victim,

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Speaker 2: and when it's time to escort them out, Hey, he's

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Speaker 2: had one too many. Let's get him out. And then

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Speaker 2: you've got a two on one scenario. World one is

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Speaker 2: totally the victim incapable of defending themselves at all.

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Speaker 1: And that's the thing about it. It's almost like, and

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Speaker 1: I've got this, I'm kind of a simple minded person.

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Speaker 1: I have this vision of a pack of hyenas kind

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Speaker 1: of circling a wounded will to beast on one of

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Speaker 1: those nature shows the will to beast. Though they'll even attempt,

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Speaker 1: in their own feeble way to fight back, you know,

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Speaker 1: they'll resist. But if you've got these predators that are

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Speaker 1: kind of in your orbit, now, they're just circling, they're

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Speaker 1: just waiting, they're waiting, and you can actually get the

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Speaker 1: individual under your power of suggestion, and hey, why don't

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Speaker 1: we go somewhere else. Oh man, Yeah, that sounds great

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Speaker 1: there in this uphoric state. And the next thing, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're in the back of a vehicle going to literally

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Speaker 1: the pit of Hell. I could rattle off names now

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Speaker 1: probably and you'd recognize them. We could talk about, obviously

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Speaker 1: at the top list is Jeffrey Dahmer. We could talk

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Speaker 1: about the alleged lisc killer. Any number of serial perpetrators

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Speaker 1: come to mind. And one of the things that is

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Speaker 1: common to all of these subjects, either confirmed or alleged,

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Speaker 1: is this idea of control, control over an individual who

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Speaker 1: the perpetrator has dehumanized. They're no longer human to the perpetrator.

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Speaker 1: They are in a position of vulnerability and they are

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Speaker 1: malleable to anything that happens. But here's the trick. If

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Speaker 1: you're going to do this, if you're going to control somebody,

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Speaker 1: what are you going to take them? We're going to

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Speaker 1: do with them? Because that's the big key here.

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Speaker 2: The house that Stephen Lorenzo and Scotti Schwagger were living in,

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Speaker 2: it was just these two guys with a rape, murder,

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Speaker 2: torture fantasy world that goes beyond the pale that that

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Speaker 2: was actually their connection. The reason they became friends is

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Speaker 2: because they both had fantasies of torturing other people, of

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Speaker 2: raping people and killing them. And that's where they got

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Speaker 2: together and ended up becoming roommates and then had a

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Speaker 2: game plan. They figured out exactly what to do and

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Speaker 2: how to get it done. They went into the gay

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Speaker 2: clubs in Tampa, they picked out who they were going

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Speaker 2: to get. And I didn't realize until today exactly how

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Speaker 2: GHB worked the way you explained it a few minutes ago, Joe,

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Speaker 2: I didn't know that. I now know that it wasn't

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Speaker 2: a difficult thing to step to pick out the prey

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Speaker 2: and get them out and get them back to a

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Speaker 2: private setting. They don't have to find a place. They're

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Speaker 2: not having to pull around in a dark alley or

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Speaker 2: go out there. They've got a place to go. Let's

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Speaker 2: go back to my place. Let's take the party to

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Speaker 2: my place.

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Speaker 1: Just think about it for one second when you think

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Speaker 1: about the nature of this drug and how it impacts

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Speaker 1: the person that has been exposed to it. Because you

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Speaker 1: could see, for instance, you've got three adults in this case,

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Speaker 1: three adult males, who you can imagine if you visually

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Speaker 1: see them all these you know, you're not talking about

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Speaker 1: a young kid that's screaming for their parents. You know,

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Speaker 1: help me, help me, you're talking about somebody that appears

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Speaker 1: compliant and game for anything, and so you've got this

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Speaker 1: compliant subject that's being led into this environment. It's not

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Speaker 1: you know, if the neighbors see it, all right, or

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Speaker 1: somebody driving down the road sees them, they're going to say, well,

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Speaker 1: that's three adults hanging out. It looks like they're having

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Speaker 1: a great time. But you know, it masks the reality

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Speaker 1: of what's actually going on. It's amazing when you think

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Speaker 1: about it, that you can give someone a substance that does,

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Speaker 1: in fact muld them into this being that is totally

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Speaker 1: and completely compliant. And that again going back to this

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Speaker 1: analogous to the pit of Hell, you're actually ushering them

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Speaker 1: over the threshold into this environment. And they're not fighting,

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Speaker 1: you Dave, they're not fighting at all. They're willingly, at

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Speaker 1: least from a drug induced standpoint, willingly going in and

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Speaker 1: passing through that portal.

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Speaker 2: This happened in two thousand and three two different men,

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Speaker 2: Jason Gelhaus and Michael Walckols, Steven Lorenzo in a Tampa

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Speaker 2: night club. They both were taken back to Lorenzo's house

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Speaker 2: where he and Scott Schweiker. They basically kidnapped them because

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Speaker 2: these guys would not have gone willingly had they known

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Speaker 2: what was going to happen. But they were kidnapped, drugged,

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Speaker 2: sexually tortured, and then they were both killed. Whereas Jason Galehouse,

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Speaker 2: his body was cut up and stuffed the parts into

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Speaker 2: trash bags and then ditched them in garbage bins all

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Speaker 2: around the city of Tampa. That didn't happen to Michael Walkholt.

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Speaker 2: He actually was found in his car, wrapped in a

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Speaker 2: sheet in his jeep in apartment complex parking area.

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Speaker 1: A decomposing mantu. He was found a particularly lengthy tom later,

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Speaker 1: you know, because most people don't expect to see something

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Speaker 1: like that.

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Speaker 2: No, And the thing that got everybody freaking out is

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Speaker 2: that they weren't the only two guys that went missing.

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Speaker 2: I think there were nine guys that were missing in

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Speaker 2: a fairly short period of time, and these two come

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Speaker 2: up dead at one was dismembered and one was not.

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Speaker 2: One was actually totally disposed of where we still haven't

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Speaker 2: been able to find him, and the other was, hey,

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Speaker 2: he's right there in his own car.

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Speaker 1: Can I tell you what they did find of Gaelhouse,

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Speaker 1: even though his body was never actually recovered during the

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Speaker 1: course of the investigation. What they did find at Lorenzo's

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Speaker 1: home is that when they went into the garage, they

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Speaker 1: actually found evidence of Gaelhouse's blood on the floor. And

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Speaker 1: one of the things that keeps coming up in this

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Speaker 1: case in particular, but in other cases as well, is

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Speaker 1: the specter of dismemberment. Here we go again, Dave.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned that a while back, Joe, that we seem

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Speaker 2: to be getting a lot of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we really do. I don't know, it's probably just

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Speaker 1: this idea that we're more focused on it, or maybe

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It seems to me the world they're

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Speaker 1: less boundaries now, even for killers. But that is part

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Speaker 1: of I love the Latin term corpus delecti, because you

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Speaker 1: have evidence of violence that has taken place here, and

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Speaker 1: why else would this total stranger's blood be on the

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Speaker 1: floor of his garage. And a dismemberment, again, is something

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Speaker 1: that requires some level of not just tools, but it

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Speaker 1: requires prophecy. This is not something you're going to go

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Speaker 1: out in the front yard and do.

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Speaker 2: Can we back up to the blood in the garage

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Speaker 2: for just a minute, Joe. The way it was described

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Speaker 2: in court was that it was a pool of blood

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Speaker 2: under the floor of Lorenzo's garage, the floor being those

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Speaker 2: big brick things that you can use as a flooring area,

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Speaker 2: and I'm guessing the blood seeped underneath those, and they

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Speaker 2: called it a pool of blood. How long will blood

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Speaker 2: remain where you can actually see was there and test

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Speaker 2: it from the time it comes out of my body?

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Speaker 2: How long are you going to be able to find

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Speaker 2: it in that dirt?

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Speaker 1: You can find it for a protracted period of time.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing how resilient it is. I sound like I'm

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Speaker 1: talking out of both sides of my mouth, but just

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Speaker 1: bear with me. If it is in a cool, more

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Speaker 1: protected area, say like underflooring like this, or remember this

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Speaker 1: is down in Tampa, all right, So we're talking about

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Speaker 1: a harsh environment, all right, from you're in a semi

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Speaker 1: tropical environment down there, and you're thinking about, well, it

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Speaker 1: would change very quickly. You can still find some remnant

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Speaker 1: of it. And here's something else. The fact that they're

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Speaker 1: using the term pool associated with seepach gives you an

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Speaker 1: idea of what volume that there was that after this

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Speaker 1: time they're still able to appreciate it. Now, would you

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Speaker 1: be able to use it. I think many people would think, well,

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Speaker 1: would you actually be able to use this degraded blood,

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Speaker 1: it would still give up enough information from a toxicological

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Speaker 1: standpoint where you could actually see evidence of GHB in

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Speaker 1: that No, I don't think to that point. However, you

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Speaker 1: would still see I think even microscopically, if you were

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Speaker 1: to examine it eyes on, you could see decomposing remnant

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Speaker 1: of the blood at a microscopic level, and you would

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Speaker 1: probably be able to which I think they did in

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Speaker 1: this case, confirm at least at a molecular level that

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Speaker 1: this blood was associated with Gealehouse. Plus you would need

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Speaker 1: the circumstantial evidence. Would someone actually roll over on another

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Speaker 1: person and confess to this?

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Speaker 2: Dave?

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Speaker 1: Do you recall in our opening I had mentioned the

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Speaker 1: magnifying glass and seeing what it would be like to

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Speaker 1: burn insects. One of the most distasteful parts of that,

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Speaker 1: I think for me personally, I can't speak to anybody else,

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Speaker 1: is that even as a little boy, you look at

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Speaker 1: this and you can sense that there's some level of

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Speaker 1: discomfort and pain when you do this. One of the

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Speaker 1: things that's quite off putting about it. But as I

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Speaker 1: mentioned when we first set forth, on this conversation. I

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Speaker 1: think that some people are incapable of that. As a

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Speaker 1: matter of fact, I think that some people long to

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Speaker 1: see that discomfort. Recently, I had watched a piece on

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Speaker 1: the Marquis de Side. The term sadism actually arises from

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Speaker 1: his name and the depths that he sunk to this debauchery,

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Speaker 1: this horrible basement of human behavior he in dwelled, and

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Speaker 1: I think that there is not just a touch, not

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Speaker 1: just a touch. I think that this whole series of

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Speaker 1: crimes is a wash in sata.

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Speaker 2: When I read the survivor description of what he went through,

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Speaker 2: I think you're exactly right, Joe. This is what Albert

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Speaker 2: Perkins said. Albert Perkins was drugged and attacked by Lorenzo

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Speaker 2: and was one of the few that lived to tell

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Speaker 2: the tale about this. He said this quote. I was panicked, hysterical.

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Speaker 2: I remember him sitting. He turned me over. He was

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Speaker 2: sitting on the side of the bed. His face he

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Speaker 2: just didn't look the same. Nothing behind his eyes, they

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Speaker 2: were dark. His face was contorted, which further panicked me.

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Speaker 2: Perkins said. He slipped in and out of consciousness, and

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Speaker 2: when he finally came to, Lorenzo was in complete control. Quote,

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Speaker 2: my arms and my legs were bound and some twine

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Speaker 2: rope around my neck. I had duct tape over my

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Speaker 2: eyes and mouth.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that you can take the measure of that, really.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get too far off into the

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Speaker 1: weeds talking about areas that psychologists would get into here.

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Speaker 1: But from a forensic standpoint, you see evidence of this,

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Speaker 1: and you go out to these scenes and you see

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Speaker 1: things like, you know, one of the things we'd look for,

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Speaker 1: things like binding materials out there, and you have to

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Speaker 1: address it. It's the elephant in the room at that

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Speaker 1: point in time. You've got binding materials. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things that you see with kidnapped victims many times

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Speaker 1: when you're looking at bodies is you'll see like adhesive residue.

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Speaker 1: We all know what duct tape looks like. A strip

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Speaker 1: of duct tape is put over the eyes or over

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Speaker 1: the mouth. If someone has facial hair, has the hair

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Speaker 1: been ripped out as a result. I've found literally I

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Speaker 1: found duct tape at scenes that contained human hair where

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Speaker 1: it had been removed and then maybe fresh had been reapplied,

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Speaker 1: because it'll begin to turn loose as a result of

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Speaker 1: you know, the moisture interacting with the adhesive. But you'll

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Speaker 1: see that residue of adhesive and it's something that we

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Speaker 1: take note of and the more to try to tell

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Speaker 1: the story of what's happening. And this fellow was mentioning

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Speaker 1: the use of twine and being a very narrow type

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Speaker 1: of binding. It's not like you're using some kind of

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Speaker 1: broad woven rope here. It's going to dig in and say,

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Speaker 1: for instance, we find a body that has been bound

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Speaker 1: by something like twine, you'll have these very deep furrows

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Speaker 1: because the more narrow the binding is, the deeper the

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Speaker 1: furrow will be, and there'll be evidence of that. But

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Speaker 1: here's the thing. When you begin to think about the

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Speaker 1: actions of the GHB, as he is has an awareness

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Speaker 1: he's in this kind of and they describe it like

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Speaker 1: a dream like state. Most of the time you have

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Speaker 1: an awareness this is going on. Maybe in your brain

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Speaker 1: you're screaming out this is not right, but you have

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Speaker 1: no control of your body. It's almost as if if

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Speaker 1: people in the audience can identify if you've ever had

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Speaker 1: surgery where they push that initial drug in to the

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Speaker 1: line and you get in this kind of milky warm state,

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Speaker 1: and they could essentially do anything to you in surgery,

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Speaker 1: which they're going to do. They're going to do a

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Speaker 1: bit of cutting, and you don't want to have an

356
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Speaker 1: awareness of that, but there's nothing you can do about it.

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Speaker 2: Albert Perkins said, this went on for five hours. It

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Speaker 2: wasn't just a hey, I'm tied up. It was, like

359
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Speaker 2: you said, it's a dream state. He knew what was

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Speaker 2: going on for the most part, but he couldn't do

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Speaker 2: anything about it. And five hours of torture. I'm thinking

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Speaker 2: about struggling from the twine, because you know, we all

363
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Speaker 2: know what twine feels like on your skin. I can't

364
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Speaker 2: imagine he had to have been just struggling, even in

365
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Speaker 2: that dream state to get out the pain that would

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Speaker 2: have just come from that alone. But Joe, when we're

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Speaker 2: dealing with a sexual assault, how are you going to

368
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Speaker 2: go back and determine on men? What are the sexual

369
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Speaker 2: assault kits?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 2: I have no clue.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, no, there's no difference between the sexual assault kits.

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Speaker 1: They're the same and to purpose the same more than likely.

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Speaker 1: It's just that with when we're dealing with a male body.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be very blunt here. We're dealing with

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Speaker 1: a male body. First off, we're going to be swabs

377
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Speaker 1: externally all over the body to see if there is

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00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,679
Speaker 1: any kind of ejaculate that's left behind. And this is

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00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 1: facilitated rather easily. We have kits for this. But when

380
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 1: we do a rape kit on males, just like with females,

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Speaker 1: what will generally happen is that you will have multiple

382
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 1: swabs that are actually placed into the rectum and they'll

383
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 1: be allowed to sit in there for several minutes because

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00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,679
Speaker 1: you want anything that is in there, you want it

385
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: to be absorbed into the tip of the swabs. And

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00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 1: the victim who we have the intact body, which is

387
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Speaker 1: mister Wackoltz who is found decomposing in his jeep. This

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Speaker 1: is and keep in mind he sat in that jeep

389
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Speaker 1: for two weeks, Dave two weeks, and so that even

390
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: furthers this because at a cellular level, in the bowel

391
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 1: in particular, you have this environment where you have the

392
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 1: cellular breakdown that's taking place. That's one of the reasons

393
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 1: we kind of have this liquefied event that's going on

394
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 1: when you have what referred to as purge that are

395
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: issuing out from the mouth and any bodily oriphics. Many

396
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 1: times there's kind of the seepitch. It's a it's one

397
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: of the foulest substances you can ever smell in the world.

398
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 1: Is there a chance that you could recover some evidence

399
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: of semen that's still contained in that area per a

400
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 1: rape kit, It's going to be very difficult. So our

401
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 1: default position in a case like this where we have

402
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: a decomposed body is we're going to look for external

403
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: trauma around the anus, for instance. And here's the thing.

404
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: When you begin to look for this trauma, you're looking

405
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 1: for contusions, you're looking for tearing, and you have to

406
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 1: have a very keen eye as a pathologist, these forensic

407
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: pathologists that do these exams, because that particular area of

408
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 1: the body will be greatly compromised. And I don't know

409
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 1: if you're aware of this, but any orifice in the

410
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: body during the course of decomposition, that's where flies actually

411
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: first set in and lay their eggs. So you'll have

412
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: the rectal area, you'll have the mouth, the ears, the nose,

413
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 1: the eyes. You have fly eggs and the eyes they

414
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 1: go for those moist and warm areas, so you have

415
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,880
Speaker 1: maggot development in that area as well. So they're trying

416
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: to feed, they're trying to survive.

417
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Speaker 2: So is it really a true thing not just out

418
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 2: of the movies that forensic people can use fly stuff

419
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 2: to determine how long a person has been dead or

420
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 2: has been in the vehicle in this case.

421
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you sure can, because what happens is there's if

422
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 1: you think of it as revel or cycles, which is

423
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: what my friends in entomology like to They use that

424
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: term a lot. The life cycle of the common blowfly.

425
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: You find maggot husk that are laying about, and that's

426
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 1: where the maggots are going through their progression to becoming

427
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: full on adult flies. Here's another little unknown that you

428
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 1: might find interesting day. Did you know that if we

429
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: have a decomposing body, that we can take maggot samples

430
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: from the body and dig this, place them into a centrifuge,

431
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 1: which is into a tube, and seal it up. Place

432
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: it in a centrifuge which spins things right, It spins

433
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: it down, and it spins it down until the maggots

434
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: are actually liquefied. And guess what we can do with that.

435
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: We can actually draw it up, run it for drug testing.

436
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: We can see if there are any drugs on board there. Now,

437
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 1: it's kind of iffy as to whether or not you

438
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,919
Speaker 1: could pick up on GHP in a maggot sample, but

439
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,959
Speaker 1: you can find cocaine or cocaine metabolite. You can find

440
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: the metabolite of heroin many times in dwelling within these

441
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: liquefied maggots. That's always been fascinating to me because the

442
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: bugs not only are giving you an indication of timeline,

443
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 1: they're also giving you an indication as to what they've ingested,

444
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 1: what they've subsisted off of, which is this human remainance

445
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: before them.

446
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 2: You know, you mentioned something about Michael Walcholtz. We're talking

447
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 2: about him being in his jeep and decomposing over two weeks.

448
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 2: One thing I wanted to bring out, and it goes

449
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: back to the actual scene taking place, these men meeting

450
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 2: in a bar, going back to Lorenzo's house to have

451
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 2: a party.

452
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: Or what have you.

453
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 2: But we do know, because there was the specter of

454
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 2: the death penalty hanging overhead that Deven Lorenzo's partner in crime,

455
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 2: Scott Schweickert, actually provided the prosecution and thankfully we got

456
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 2: more information from him of what actually took place. Otherwise,

457
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 2: it would be a more of a guessing game. But

458
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 2: he actually gave us what happened to Michael Walcoltz, and

459
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 2: he said that walcaults when this was when he was

460
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 2: being tortured, when he was going through this hell on earth.

461
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 2: He screamed at Steven Lorenzo, this is not consensual. Anybody

462
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 2: tries to play they were playing a sex game and

463
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 2: it went too far. Just to be crystal clear. Scott Schweikert,

464
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 2: who was there when it happened, said this man knew

465
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 2: what was happening to him and said, this is not consensual.

466
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 2: The other part, Joe, I have from watching television shows

467
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 2: and movies. I thought GHB was not detectable in the

468
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 2: body within a matter of hours, within like twelve hours

469
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 2: or whatever. I thought it was cleared out of the

470
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 2: body and you couldn't find it. Is that not true?

471
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. And because it metabolizes very very quickly

472
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: and kind of exits the body, I think that there

473
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: are any number of people that are out there that

474
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: kind of labor under this delusion that you can test

475
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: for it and find it in a very short period

476
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: of time. Now, if the person dies before the drug

477
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: is actually metabolized, and exits the body, you're going to

478
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: have a better shot at it. So how long did

479
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: this go on? Post application of the drug? And it

480
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 1: does kind of wear off pretty quickly, but it leaves

481
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: you in a state of misremembering things or not just

482
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: losing huge blocks of time of your life where you

483
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: can't account for what had happened. In these cases like this,

484
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: where these fellows that did survive, in fact, they're going

485
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: to wake up and they're going to have pain throughout

486
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: their body because they've been abused. And I don't have

487
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: to go into gorey detail about that, but you can

488
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: only imagine some of the pain that they would be

489
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: experiencing and they don't have any explanation for it. And

490
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: it might go back to the bar. And I think

491
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: many times that victims like this are embarrassed. You know,

492
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 1: they're embarrassed to want to go back and say, hey,

493
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: did you see me leave here with somebody last night,

494
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: because it gives you the impression that they were not

495
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: in control of themselves. They were that easily influenced, where

496
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: it's not their person being influenced, it's this drug that's

497
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: acting upon them. Now, we'll take samples of various tissues

498
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: to see if we can find evidence muscle in particular.

499
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: But when you get a body that is so compromised

500
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: by decomposition, I think that it would be quite the

501
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: climb for any practitioner to try to determine if GHB

502
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: is on board, and the odds are against you. I'll

503
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: put it to you that way, most of the time

504
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: GHB is going to be picked up on if I

505
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: remember correctly, through the urine, and urine is the best

506
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: sample to go through and to try to find it

507
00:30:58,040 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: that way, so you don't know if it would have

508
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: been expelled from the body or what would have happened.

509
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: But to that point, I think that even though you

510
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: have this GHB on board, and this is what I

511
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: was talking about relative to a torture event, you have

512
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: these two fellows in particular that are being asphyxiated Dave,

513
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: and you can see this even with someone that is

514
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: in a drug state. Your body is going to react.

515
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: You know that primal brain is going to kick in

516
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: and you'll begin to struggle for air and you will fight,

517
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: you'll resist, And I think that that's where this sadistic

518
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: element comes in. You sit back and whether it's a

519
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: literature around the throat or whether it's a bag over

520
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: the head, you will see this individual react to deprivation

521
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: of oxygen and it's a horrible thing. I'm just so

522
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: thankful that this person is off the street as well

523
00:31:55,360 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: as his compatriot, because, as it turns out, Lorenzo has

524
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: already been convicted of, you know, raping and torturing nine

525
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: men and has a federal sentence of I think two

526
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: hundred years, is that correct.

527
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was sentenced to the two hundred years in prison.

528
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 2: And for many people, you think, well, he's done, we

529
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 2: don't have to worry. Well, there's still family left that

530
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 2: needs justice for their loved one. In this particular case,

531
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 2: we have two young men who were murdered that their

532
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 2: families are still suffering because of what Steve Lorenzo did.

533
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 2: It took many, many years to get Steven Lorenzo in

534
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 2: court to be tried, convicted, and sentenced in the cases

535
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 2: of Jason Galehouse and Michael Walkoll's.

536
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: And when that did happen, Dave, I think that it

537
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 1: was for families. There's no replacing, you know, those that

538
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: you love. But just for a moment in time, the

539
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: family members of these victims actually had a chance to

540
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: stand in court old Lorenzo what he had robbed them of,

541
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: and to tell the court that Lorenzo no longer deserved

542
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: to be among us. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this

543
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: is Bodybacks