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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, Sophia Bush here. Welcome to Work in Progress,

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Speaker 1: where I talked to people who inspire me about how

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Speaker 1: they got to where they are and where they think

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Speaker 1: they're still going. Okay, y'all, Pisa Ling is so badass.

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Speaker 1: If you haven't watched her CNN series This Is Life,

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Speaker 1: you have to check it out. It is the most inspiring,

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Speaker 1: moving and informative thing on TV right now. She travels

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Speaker 1: around the country exploring all sorts of topics, from porn

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Speaker 1: to gender fluidity, to prison, two twins, and so much more.

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Speaker 1: I loved talking to her about her journalism career, how

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Speaker 1: she got started, and how she sees the impact of

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Speaker 1: the ever changing nature of how we view the truth.

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Speaker 1: She got her start as a reporter in high school.

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Speaker 1: She shared an office with Anderson Cooper at Channel one,

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Speaker 1: and then went on to work for Oprah. I asked

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Speaker 1: all about them both, and of course how she's led

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Speaker 1: this incredible career. We covered so much, and I know

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Speaker 1: you'll find her as inspiring and exciting as I do. Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you for coming. I'm just so excited that you're here.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember it, but I remember

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Speaker 1: it because I've been such a fan of yours, for

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Speaker 1: I don't even remember a time when I wasn't um,

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Speaker 1: which is interesting because neither of us is that old.

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Speaker 1: But but you're really not and and it's and it's

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Speaker 1: funny to me because I guess so many of my

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Speaker 1: memories of the powerful journalists who affected me revolve around

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Speaker 1: stories that I watched from you, stories that I watched

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Speaker 1: from Oprah, stories that I watched from Diane Sawyer and

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Speaker 1: Barbara Walters. You you are these You are the iconography

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Speaker 1: of of women in journalism to me. And a couple

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Speaker 1: of years ago, we were at a lunch which I

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Speaker 1: believe Cindy Levy, the editor of Glamour at the time,

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Speaker 1: was throwing at this great place here in l A,

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Speaker 1: the Sunset Tower Hotel. It's this, you know, for our listeners.

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Speaker 1: It's the sort of you know, chic bastion of like

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Speaker 1: Art deco Hollywood culture. It's super cool and there's this

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Speaker 1: beautiful view of l A and all these amazing women

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Speaker 1: were there and I turned around and I saw you,

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Speaker 1: and right in your face, I went, I love you

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Speaker 1: just came out of me. I was so excited to

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Speaker 1: meet you, and you were just and still obviously are

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Speaker 1: the just the kindest, most genuine person and you were

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Speaker 1: so sweet and response, so thank you for that, well,

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Speaker 1: thank you. I I didn't expect to be so flattered

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Speaker 1: coming in here, but I so appreciate that. And to

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Speaker 1: even mention my name, you know, alongside the likes of

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Speaker 1: Diane Sawyer and Oprah and Barbara Walters is so humbling,

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Speaker 1: and because they also have been such idols of mine

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Speaker 1: for so long. And I've been doing the work that

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Speaker 1: I do for a long time and I've been really

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Speaker 1: really lucky to to to be able to tell stories

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Speaker 1: with some substance, and I feel now in this environment

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Speaker 1: more defiant about the need to continue telling these kinds

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Speaker 1: of stories, because we're just amidst such a culture of

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Speaker 1: ugliness and vitriol and hatred. And it's really scary to

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Speaker 1: me me too when you talk about it feeling defiant.

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Speaker 1: Can you expand on that a little more? I just

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Speaker 1: I've never felt more strongly about the work that I do,

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Speaker 1: and now maybe also as a mother of two girls.

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Speaker 1: But also you know, we we are now living in

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Speaker 1: these bubbles, these siloed bubbles, where we're not willing to

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Speaker 1: hear each other anymore. I mean, I don't know about you,

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Speaker 1: but I have fallen victim to just following people who

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Speaker 1: espouse the same views that I do on social media.

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Speaker 1: And so when you exist in that bubble, I think

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Speaker 1: it's really really hard to not only hear what what

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Speaker 1: other people are saying, but understand where people are coming from.

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Speaker 1: We just have become so predisposed now to just shutting

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Speaker 1: it down or discounting it entirely if it's not in

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Speaker 1: line with how we feel. And I just think that

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Speaker 1: there's real danger to that. And look, I'm as guilty

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Speaker 1: as anyone for doing it. You know, I'm a human

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Speaker 1: being and I like to surround myself with people who

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Speaker 1: have like values. But I think that we are getting

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Speaker 1: to a point right now where you know, we we've

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Speaker 1: reached a crisis point now, and that we have to

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Speaker 1: start listening to each other and hearing each other or

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Speaker 1: I'm afraid of the potential catastrophic impact if we don't.

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Speaker 1: I am too. It can feel really overwhelming. And I

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Speaker 1: think to your point, I I can see what silos

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Speaker 1: I exist in, and because of some of that, I've

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Speaker 1: tried to be very intentional about expanding the circles through

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Speaker 1: which I view the world, following some very conservative analysts

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Speaker 1: and following activists who work in certain cause related spaces

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Speaker 1: that are not the spaces that I have dedicated my

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Speaker 1: life too, but are still so valid, simply to start

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Speaker 1: looking at the way that these systems overlap, because we

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Speaker 1: do this idea that there are two America as I understand,

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Speaker 1: but I also think is such a dangerous falsehood because

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Speaker 1: we're all in this together. And even this idea that

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Speaker 1: people say something that that phrase it couldn't happen here

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Speaker 1: when talking about what's going on in other parts of

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Speaker 1: the world, but I think we then miss it because

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Speaker 1: if it's happening on the globe, it's happening to all

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Speaker 1: of us. And perhaps the the tendency to rest or

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Speaker 1: or back into the more tribalistic parts of our brains

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Speaker 1: is because the world does feel big and overwhelming, and

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Speaker 1: perhaps some of the tendency is in our d n a.

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Speaker 1: You know, I just got to spend some time with

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Speaker 1: a really incredible doctor, one of those people who's like,

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Speaker 1: I've got four PhDs and six doctorates, and I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I've done nothing with my life. And she's this incredible

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Speaker 1: clinical researcher who was explaining some big mental health ideas,

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Speaker 1: talking about trauma, talking about certain personality disorders, so we

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Speaker 1: really got nerdy, and she confirmed to me that not

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Speaker 1: only is there this idea of generational inheritance, but the

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Speaker 1: doctors now can actually see the ways in which certain

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Speaker 1: patterns are inherited. So if your grandparents experienced trauma, you

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Speaker 1: have inherited trauma from them. That experience, which actually changed

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Speaker 1: the way their DNA codes, was given to you in

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Speaker 1: your DNA. And I'm fascinated by this because I think

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Speaker 1: about how much it really means we're all connected, how

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Speaker 1: much it really means that all of these experiences shape

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Speaker 1: all of us. That as women, what our mothers went

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Speaker 1: through is in us and creates an instinct, and oppressed

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Speaker 1: communities have generational trauma that can be tracked, and we

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Speaker 1: all are living in this big, complicated soup together. And

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Speaker 1: if we don't start being able to have these conversations

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Speaker 1: in ways where we can lay it out on the table,

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Speaker 1: we can look at the things we may not agree

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Speaker 1: with people on, but also talk about what we do,

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Speaker 1: talk about our commonality, and then figure out how to

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Speaker 1: compromise to move forward. I don't know what happens. I

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Speaker 1: feel like then we just become these tiny pockets of

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Speaker 1: you know, these virtual civil wars that and I think

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Speaker 1: there's never been a better time to talk about exactly this,

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Speaker 1: because if in fact, there is a generational link to

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Speaker 1: those who who who feeld a inhabit, you know, an

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Speaker 1: oppressed community, they're part of an oppressed community. I think

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Speaker 1: I think how we respond to that is really is

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Speaker 1: really important, you know. I think that right now we

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Speaker 1: and I think social media had a lot to do

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Speaker 1: with us. I mean, you know, I'd be curious to

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Speaker 1: know how the woman you were talking to feels about

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Speaker 1: social media, because in so many ways, social media, our device,

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Speaker 1: our devices have just turned everything, you know, this this

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Speaker 1: sort of course of humanity on its head, because it

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Speaker 1: is igniting things in all of us that aren't really normal,

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Speaker 1: you know. And so I think there are all these

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Speaker 1: movements that are happening right now that are exciting and

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Speaker 1: and that are purposeful me too. For example, there is

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Speaker 1: increased awareness and momentum behind the fight against racism right

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Speaker 1: but at the same time, there's a lot of blame

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Speaker 1: that's being placed on people, and in some ways, I

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Speaker 1: think it's unfair because it's not productive. I'm currently working

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Speaker 1: on an episode for a future season about what I

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Speaker 1: believe is a crisis of it is a boy crisis,

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Speaker 1: because I think that there is a generation of young

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Speaker 1: men right now who are growing up feeling or being

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Speaker 1: made to feel like they are part of this oppressive class.

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Speaker 1: They're afraid to to speak out about anything. They're afraid

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Speaker 1: to defend themselves if they feel they deserve to defend themselves.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that is resulting in a lot

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Speaker 1: of young men seeking out these you know, white supremacist groups, gangs,

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Speaker 1: these other kinds of tribes. You know. It's it's interesting

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Speaker 1: you mentioned this sort of tribal culture that you know,

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Speaker 1: human beings have kind of descended from, right I think

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Speaker 1: now we are we are because of social media and

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Speaker 1: and and because of everything that's happening in the world.

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Speaker 1: We're wanting to sort of seek those tribes out. But

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Speaker 1: if if, if you're if your energy, if your anger

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Speaker 1: is channeled in the wrong direction, it can so easily

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Speaker 1: result in seeking out these kinds of really dangerous kinds

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Speaker 1: of tribes, you know. So I think that our kind

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Speaker 1: of response to everything that's happening right now is really

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Speaker 1: really is really crucial. It's easy to to blame, right,

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Speaker 1: but what what is the productive answer to the things

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Speaker 1: that are happening now? And the only way we can

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Speaker 1: achieve that or get to that place, I think, is

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Speaker 1: through meaningful dialogue. And we're just not having that because

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Speaker 1: we're so you know, we we we've dug ourselves into

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Speaker 1: these these holes. And I think there's a real kind

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Speaker 1: of reckoning, you know. They there's theories about when as

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Speaker 1: humans we make these evolutionary jumps, and right before a

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Speaker 1: jump or an adaptation, it can be very chaotic, and

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Speaker 1: I think to your point, it's so important that we

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Speaker 1: are having conversations about all of these systems which have

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Speaker 1: really stood to harm a lot of people in the world.

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Speaker 1: But there are so many of them, and and it

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Speaker 1: can at times feel like people really only care about

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Speaker 1: the system that oppresses them. And then we just have

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Speaker 1: all these people who are angry for different reasons, all

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Speaker 1: yelling about why they're angry. And I'm really glad we're

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Speaker 1: all yelling, and I'm hoping we can all again listen

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Speaker 1: to each other and create some sort of cohesive plan

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Speaker 1: to move a larger society forward. And I had a

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Speaker 1: conversation with a friend of mine who is an incredible

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Speaker 1: mentor in my life and amazing figure in all of

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Speaker 1: the women's movements, not just the most recent one, And

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Speaker 1: something dawned on me while we were speaking, because she

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Speaker 1: was giving me some perspective on over the last fifty

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Speaker 1: years of activism, where where she sees the fear as

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Speaker 1: women fight for their own power, where she sees the

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Speaker 1: fear come from in men? And I had this wild

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Speaker 1: realization where I went, Oh, is it that the men

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Speaker 1: are afraid we would do to them what they've done

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Speaker 1: to us? Oh? Is that why the demand for equality

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Speaker 1: can feel to those who have been empowered like oppression?

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Speaker 1: Is that what creates this confusing schism for these younger

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Speaker 1: men who go, I don't think I'm all bad? Are

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Speaker 1: you saying that if the future is female? I get

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Speaker 1: left behind? And and we as women have to do

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Speaker 1: better at talking about When there's a slogan out there

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Speaker 1: and there's a T shirt that says the future is female,

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Speaker 1: the word male is literally included in the word female.

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Speaker 1: Women are fighting so hard for equal representation, and I

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Speaker 1: think we can forget when men are afraid that to us,

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Speaker 1: we we have at least for me. I know I do.

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Speaker 1: I have the core belief of I would never do

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Speaker 1: to you what a patriarchal system has done to my sister.

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Speaker 1: And we have total tendency to be afraid. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's what's driving are politics right now, right, And

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Speaker 1: it's it's you. You react when you're scared, right, And

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Speaker 1: that's being really taken advantage of. We have political leaders

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Speaker 1: who understand that they can galvanize fear to create this

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Speaker 1: boiling point where people will act irrationally and often in

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Speaker 1: the in the best interests of the politicians and not

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Speaker 1: the people. And it's unfortunate when a society is being

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Speaker 1: taken advantage of by its leaders in that way. And

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Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be

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Speaker 1: a fight, right, There doesn't have to be a winner.

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Speaker 1: You know, someone said once I and I and I.

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Speaker 1: I can't exactly cite the quote, but when when one

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Speaker 1: gender wins, we all lose, right, because if we are

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Speaker 1: going to talk about equality, it can't be at the

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Speaker 1: expense of the other gender. M We had a great

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Speaker 1: guests on the podcast, J Shetty, who is an incredible

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Speaker 1: speaker and he's got just the coolest perspective. And he

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Speaker 1: talks about something in his marriage which I think actually

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Speaker 1: is the micro version of the macro way we need

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Speaker 1: to look at society. He talks about how he and

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Speaker 1: his wife always when they're looking at a problem, they

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Speaker 1: sit together and say, it's you and me against the problem.

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Speaker 1: It's we against this. It's not you versus me. The

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Speaker 1: problem is not a thing that exists between us. It's

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Speaker 1: it's its own entity over here. And we have to

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Speaker 1: be on the same team to solve it. And and

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Speaker 1: I would love for us to be able to look

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Speaker 1: at the problems of society and say, but we're on

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Speaker 1: the same team. Could we ever get to that place?

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's such a utopic, that's but but but

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Speaker 1: I listen, I would love to live in that world too,

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Speaker 1: because it is true. I mean, we are all part

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Speaker 1: of the same race. And when we continue to sort

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Speaker 1: of perpetuate, you know, this hostility along along race lines

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Speaker 1: or along gender lines, it's just like it's it serves

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Speaker 1: no purpose, you know, and it just I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's really it's really destructive. Well, and

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Speaker 1: I think there's something that fascinates me is looking at

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Speaker 1: the reality that two things can be true at the

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Speaker 1: same time, that people need spaces where their identity can

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Speaker 1: be recognized, and that we need to recognize that we

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Speaker 1: all are part of one larger identity. And I always

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Speaker 1: like to ask people when we get started about who

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Speaker 1: they were as kids. And you and I have just

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Speaker 1: delved right into everything, and I love it, but I'm like, God,

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Speaker 1: her brain is so good. Um, but it But it

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Speaker 1: does make me curious because I want to know about

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Speaker 1: who you were as a child. I know you as

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Speaker 1: this brilliant and and observational and nuanced, soulful human and

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Speaker 1: I wonder if you were all of those things when

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Speaker 1: you're seven or eight and when we talk about were

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Speaker 1: when we talk about identity, though, I wonder what your

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Speaker 1: experience also is as a Chinese American and as a woman,

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Speaker 1: because your culture is important and there's also the reality

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Speaker 1: of your culture and then the desire to assimilate. And

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Speaker 1: in a way I would imagine there are lessons from

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Speaker 1: your childhood that applied to this conundrum of how do

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Speaker 1: we recognize that we're all the same, and how do

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Speaker 1: we how do we hold onto who we are in

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Speaker 1: the ways that we are different, and to our culture

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Speaker 1: and to our heritage, because that's important too, absolutely and

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Speaker 1: I and I, when I really think back on it,

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Speaker 1: I do think that the conflict that I felt or

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Speaker 1: experienced as a as a young seven year old has

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Speaker 1: everything to do with how I see the world or

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Speaker 1: how I envisioned the world that I want to live in.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in northern California, outside of Sacramento, in

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Speaker 1: a very non diverse community, and we didn't have a

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Speaker 1: lot of money. My parents divorced when I was seven. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I always felt conflicted about my identity because I

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Speaker 1: didn't feel totally American because my house always smelled like

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Speaker 1: Chinese food. And I obviously look different than all of

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Speaker 1: my friends. And I was reminded of the fact that

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Speaker 1: I looked different from them all the time. And what

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Speaker 1: is how does that present when you're a little kid.

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Speaker 1: Where did those reminders come from? Oh? I mean, I was.

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Speaker 1: I was teased a lot. It wasn't malicious, but because

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Speaker 1: I look different and kids are kids, you know, I

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Speaker 1: was called you know, reesa ring was my nickname, and

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Speaker 1: and and kids would uh constantly kind of come up

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Speaker 1: to me and and you know, make these sounds like oh,

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Speaker 1: Esa ring and you know, stuff like that. Again, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't malicious, they were just being kids. But when you

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Speaker 1: when you grow up kind of experiencing those things and

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Speaker 1: really loathing how that felt, I think it it kind

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Speaker 1: of drives you in a certain way. But I didn't

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Speaker 1: feel entirely American because I didn't look like my friends.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't feel Chinese because ultimately I didn't know

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Speaker 1: the first thing about being Chinese because I was American.

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Speaker 1: I was born in California, and whenever I was with

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Speaker 1: people who were from any part of Asia, I just

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Speaker 1: could not relate at all. And so I I grew up.

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Speaker 1: I remember that that that word conflict is sort of

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Speaker 1: the definitive war a word of to describe my childhood

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Speaker 1: because I just didn't I didn't know where I belonged,

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Speaker 1: and I longed for that tribe too, and I just

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Speaker 1: didn't have that. Was that something you could talk to

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Speaker 1: your parents about? Could you ask them about their experiences

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Speaker 1: before they immigrated here? You know, as a kid, I

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Speaker 1: just didn't really have the language. The language. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: and again, my parents were divorced when I was seven,

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Speaker 1: and my mom moved to Los Angeles, and even though

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Speaker 1: she was still part of our lives. And when I

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Speaker 1: say we, I'm including my sister in this conversation, who

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Speaker 1: was four when my parents divorced. She she definitely wasn't

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Speaker 1: a regular part. She wasn't part of the day to

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Speaker 1: day and my dad worked all the time. So my

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Speaker 1: grandmother was with us, and she was a very educated

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Speaker 1: woman but also a very strong evangelical and so the

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Speaker 1: Bible was a big part of our our try fildhood.

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Speaker 1: Singing hymns was a big part of our childhood. In fact,

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Speaker 1: on Halloween Night, my grandmother would make us turn out

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Speaker 1: all the lights and sing hymns to drown out all

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Speaker 1: of the all the trick or treaters. Yeah, it was that.

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Speaker 1: It was a hardcore, so you never got to get candy.

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Speaker 1: I mean we snuck out a couple of times, did it.

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Speaker 1: When she When she got older, and when we got older,

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Speaker 1: she started to she she she became pretty senile at

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Speaker 1: a certain point. But yeah, that's that's that's the world

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Speaker 1: that that I grew up in, so very you know,

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Speaker 1: on the one hand, very closed minded on so many levels.

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Speaker 1: But also with this with this real conflict not knowing

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Speaker 1: where I where I, where I belonged, and so I

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Speaker 1: started working on television when I was young. I auditioned

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Speaker 1: for a teen magazine show when I was sixteen, and

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Speaker 1: I was chosen how do I find out about? Yes?

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Speaker 1: How does the six It was kind of like that

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Speaker 1: before a speech teacher told the class about auditions at

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Speaker 1: a local mall for a teen magazine show that that

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Speaker 1: might eventually become syndicated, And so I showed up audition

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Speaker 1: and I was chosen as one of the four hosts

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Speaker 1: out of about five kids that showed up. An auditioned,

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Speaker 1: and that gave me an opportunity to in turn in

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Speaker 1: the newsroom because it was produced by a local news affiliate.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't until I turned eighteen that I auditioned

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Speaker 1: for another show called Channel one News, which is seen

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Speaker 1: in schools across the country purportedly by about eight and

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Speaker 1: a half million students every day. Anderson Cooper, who was

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Speaker 1: on Who's on CNN, was one of my colleagues. The

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Speaker 1: idea was to bring on these young looking correspondence. We

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Speaker 1: were kind of like nine o two and oh before

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Speaker 1: to report news for a high school audience, So we

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Speaker 1: they wanted these certain young looking reporters kids that felt

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Speaker 1: like just the age group above the viewers exactly exactly

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Speaker 1: and having never traveled because we didn't have the resources

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Speaker 1: to do so. It was the most incredible, eye opening,

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Speaker 1: illuminating experience because it exposed me to the world in

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Speaker 1: such a profound way. You know, I wasn't visiting tourist attractions.

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Speaker 1: I was reporting on the Russian referendum elections, or the

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Speaker 1: civil war in Afghanistan, or stories about globalization in China,

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Speaker 1: in India. You know. I did this in my late

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Speaker 1: teens in early twenties, so just traveling to these places

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Speaker 1: as part of Channel One while I was in college

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Speaker 1: at USC and so I eventually dropped out because I

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Speaker 1: felt like I was acquiring a graduate school education in

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Speaker 1: my travels. But it was that experience at Channel one

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Speaker 1: that propelled me to want to communicate what I was

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Speaker 1: seeing to a bigger audience. So I want to get

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Speaker 1: more into Channel one. But I have a question about

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Speaker 1: this sort of interim time. You're between this childhood where

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Speaker 1: you're growing up, as you said, in a in a

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Speaker 1: closed minded household, and then you go out to become

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Speaker 1: a news reporter, which requires curiosity and expansive thought. And

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Speaker 1: I wonder about how you wound up there were Were

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Speaker 1: you very curious about these systems you were living in,

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Speaker 1: about community and about family. Were you asking a lot

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Speaker 1: of questions, let's say, from you know, eight to fifteen,

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Speaker 1: How did that spark for you? So I have always

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Speaker 1: had an insatiable curiosity, but it really I don't believe

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Speaker 1: I started really asking those questions until later. You know

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Speaker 1: what happened for me in my lateeens in early twenties

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Speaker 1: when I started getting just exposed to the rest to

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Speaker 1: the world. I mean I was I was twenty one

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Speaker 1: years old when I went to the front lines of

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Speaker 1: the civil war in Afghanistan and had a ten year

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Speaker 1: old boy point a an RPG at me. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, those are those are experiences that you just

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Speaker 1: you can't erase, right, And so I I realized, after

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Speaker 1: experiencing so many of these things that this is where

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Speaker 1: I just felt like I was. I was kind of

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Speaker 1: thriving in those kinds of environments. I felt more alive.

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Speaker 1: And that's something that I continue to really relish about

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Speaker 1: what I'm able to do, whether it's going to Afghanistan

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Speaker 1: or going and and and spending time with a community

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Speaker 1: that is just completely different from my own in Wichita, right,

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Speaker 1: I feel alive, my senses are heightened. And in our

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Speaker 1: country today, in the world, really we are trying not

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Speaker 1: to feel. We're afraid of feeling. You know, if we're

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Speaker 1: feeling scared, if we're feeling anxiety, if we're feeling uneasy,

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00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: there's a pill for that, you know, let's just let's

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Speaker 1: just medicate you so you don't have to feel. And

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Speaker 1: and for me, my whole life, it's just been the opposite.

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Speaker 1: It's when I'm when I'm in environments that are unfamiliar

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Speaker 1: to me, like I just I love how that feels.

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Speaker 1: And and it's not always that I feel good or

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Speaker 1: that I feel excited. Sometimes I'm horrified by the conditions

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Speaker 1: around me. Sometimes I I can't stand the food that

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Speaker 1: that that's being given to me. Sometimes my heart just

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Speaker 1: feels like, you know, it's it's it's being torn out

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Speaker 1: of my body. But it's so important to feel those things,

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Speaker 1: and I think we've kind of gotten away from that

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Speaker 1: or or somehow we are afraid of of of feeling.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's really unfortunate because it's really that

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Speaker 1: that's really driven me. Yeah, I got I identify with

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00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: that so much in all the traveling I've chosen to

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Speaker 1: do in the communities, I've chosen to visit in the

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00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: places that I always want to go. When I'm advocating

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Speaker 1: for something, I want to go and see it myself.

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Speaker 1: I want to go and talk to the people there

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Speaker 1: myself because it feels necessary to bear witness two use

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Speaker 1: my platform in the most respectable and authentic and accurate

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00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 1: way to talk to a larger audience that I have

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Speaker 1: the privilege of talking to about these things happening in

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Speaker 1: the world. And I as you talk about how if

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00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 1: it makes you feel alive, whether good or bad, in

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00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: the feeling you're experiencing, I really I get that. And

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Speaker 1: when I when we first started talking, when I said

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Speaker 1: that social media and these devices is have turned it

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00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 1: all upside down. There's nothing that compares to what you

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00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: can access on your device, nothing, no landscape, no no experience,

432
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: because we are so just like, we're so overstimulated. We

433
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: are so we can access anything. Our brains just they

434
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: weren't built to process all of this. And and and

435
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: so I think increasingly people are are feeling less and

436
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: less because they are are so embroiled in their social

437
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: world and in the world of social media, and people

438
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: aren't going out and having those experiences because they don't

439
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: feel like they need to. But yet they feel like

440
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: they have a platform though, to be able to kind

441
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: of pontificate about you know, what have you. And it's

442
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a it's kind of just an unprecedented

443
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: period that we're living in in that regard. It's wild.

444
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: I'm just so curious about where we where we go

445
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: and and I and then they're talking about, you know,

446
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,479
Speaker 1: this virtual reality so that people don't even have to travel,

447
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: they can just sit on their couches and and and

448
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: and get exposed to different parts of the world or

449
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: whatever they want to do sexually, you know. And it's

450
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: but then we're missing it. We're missing the actual experience.

451
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: We're missing the people that you run into, the street

452
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: food you wind up eating, the conversation, you wind up

453
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: having the wrong turn you take that leads you somewhere

454
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: you weren't expecting to go. It's it's the connectivity. And

455
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: and really, I think the magic that goes away the

456
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: more we view the world through a screen. Absolutely, I mean,

457
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: just the spontaneity of life. And again, those feelings that

458
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: you can only get when you don't know it is

459
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: going to happen, right, And my fear as we kind

460
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: of progress along this this path is just that already

461
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: people are feelings. Young people are feeling less empathy or

462
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: the inability to to be empathetic than ever before because

463
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: they they are they're numbing themselves with video games or

464
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: you know, or you know whatever whatever drugs that they

465
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: choose to pursue. And you know, I want to get

466
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: on it. I want to sort of ignite this quest

467
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: for people to really start feeling because I just can't can't.

468
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: I can't convey more strongly how important it is to

469
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: be able to do. Remember when we were kids and

470
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: we would call, we would get so excited about calling

471
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: you know, a boy or you know that that like

472
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: all of that doesn't even happen anymore, And when you

473
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: finally get on the phone, you'd have to actually speak

474
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: and communicate like that just doesn't it doesn't happen. And

475
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: it's it's again, it's like picking away at at feeling

476
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: and being able to experience the full range of your emotions.

477
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: Oh oh yeah, I know we're going. We're going in

478
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: a lot of directions here, and I love it, and

479
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: I think I think you have such a unique perspective

480
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: also on how these new experiences are shaping and shifting

481
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: culture because you've been investigating it for as long as

482
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: you have. And when you talk about being twenty one

483
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: and being out on assignment for Channel one and going

484
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: to places like Afghanistan, you did that. And we're able

485
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: to dive into those communities and come home and metabolize

486
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: what you saw and talk about the feeling and talk

487
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: about the political reality, and and and you could really

488
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: pontificate on geopolitical issues and human issues in a way

489
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: that in my memory felt more grounded and more informative.

490
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: You know, prior to the Bush Cheney era, you couldn't

491
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: have partisan news. You just couldn't have that. The news

492
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: was presented as fact first, and then people could come

493
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: on to debate, to talk about different sides of policy.

494
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: But there was never the ability for a news organization

495
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: to judge the facts before presenting them. It's really miss that.

496
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: It's really it's really unfair to call news, or at

497
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: least broadcast news news because it's just it's now just

498
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: straight opinion and well, and it feels like a cage match.

499
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: When I watched the news, I feel like I'm watching ESPN.

500
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: I don't feel like I'm watching news. It's been designed

501
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: to feel like sport. And again, when was the last

502
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: time you were out with people right embedded in communities?

503
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: But yet, somehow, for some reason, you've been given this

504
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 1: really precious position to kind of spew your opinion for

505
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: for the masses to absorb and to envelop a fact.

506
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: And yeah, I just for me, I think the reason

507
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: why I feel so emphatic about about this kind of

508
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 1: work is, you know, again, just I don't I spend

509
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: an equal amount of time in my home, but also

510
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: just in the world with people who in my wildest

511
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: dreams I never imagined I'd be hanging out with or

512
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: spending time with her, having dinner with. But I develop

513
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: a relationship with those people as a result that is

514
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: so unique and important, and I feel a responsibility to

515
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: tell their stories accurately. And I just I think we

516
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: all need to do that more. Just traveling to we

517
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,760
Speaker 1: don't even have to leave our own country to feel

518
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: like we're in another foreign territory. You know, if we

519
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: just traveled to the middle of the country and vice versa,

520
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 1: and you, and and so many of the great thinkers

521
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: have that experience. You know, you talk about your travel,

522
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: your Channel One coworker Anderson Cooper travels. I think about

523
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: Gloria Steinham writing on the road. I think about even

524
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 1: John Steinbeck, you know, one of my favorite authors, who

525
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: had this awakening in his later life, realizing he'd become

526
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 1: this famous writer on America, and it had been so

527
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: long since he had been in America. And he got

528
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: a camper for his truck and threw his dog in

529
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: the back and kissed his wife goodbye and said I

530
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: gotta go explore, And in his sixties road tripped around

531
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: America again to go to tiny towns and campsites and

532
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: just be with people. And it's so crucial that if

533
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: we're going to write about experience, if we're going to

534
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 1: advocate for people, if we're going to make plans for people,

535
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 1: that we know those people. When when you guys were

536
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 1: out traveling in that Channel One era, I am so curious,

537
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: just as a fan of the both of you, I'm

538
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: thinking about you and Anderson out there on the road.

539
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: What is that experience like? And you know you're twenty

540
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: one years old, are you guys going to bars? Are

541
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: you what are you doing? What is your personal life

542
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: when you're as a journalist at one traveling the globe?

543
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 1: What is that? How do you date? What's your social

544
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: if I'm so curious? While dating, dating wasn't. Yeah, I mean,

545
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: I'm married now. But it's always been a challenge because

546
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: I come back from these crazy, unbelievable experiences and want

547
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: to talk to people about it. But I think inevitably

548
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: it kind of made people feel not insecure. But I

549
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: just don't really have anything to say. I can't really

550
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 1: contribute to the conversation, and so you just kind of

551
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 1: just compartmentalize. And that was particularly challenging in relationships, especially

552
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: because I would go out with guys who I think

553
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: fancy themselves as like masculine guys, and I come back

554
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 1: and I, you know, just jumped out of helicopters with

555
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:51,839
Speaker 1: you know, Colombian narco narco police and cocaine invested laboratories

556
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: and the jungles, and they're kind of like, WHOA, I

557
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 1: I don't really know what to say, turn the paradigm over,

558
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 1: don't know how to react. So so I I've always

559
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: just kind of kept my circles very tight. My sister

560
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 1: is also a journalist, so she and I probably talk

561
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 1: on the phone five times a day at least. And

562
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 1: I've just always I've always been the kind of person

563
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 1: because I interact with so many people to just keep

564
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: my kind of inner circle pretty pretty pretty tight. Yea.

565
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: What is it like when you talk about the relationships

566
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 1: that you build with these people, these communities that you visit.

567
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,760
Speaker 1: Do you have to have a sort of boundary, almost

568
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: like a doctor does, where you can't allow a continued

569
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: expectation of a relationship after a story or can you

570
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: keep up? Question? It's a great question, and it's a

571
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,879
Speaker 1: tough one to answer because I give my cell phone

572
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 1: number to just about anyone, anyone that I spend time

573
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 1: with and and we profile because what they've shared with

574
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 1: me is often so deeply personal. It's it's it's more

575
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: personal than they've ever shared with even their closest friends

576
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 1: or family members, and I haven't. I feel like I

577
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: have an obligation to maintain contact with these people because

578
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: they've done that, They've shared that with me and I

579
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,919
Speaker 1: and I take that responsibility very seriously, and in many

580
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: ways I feel closer to them for them having shared

581
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 1: this with me than I even feel with some of

582
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: my own friends or people I call friends, because we

583
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 1: just go to that place. And my my my husband.

584
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: You thought it was pretty funny that our wedding we

585
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 1: we we we have we both have huge families, and

586
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 1: so when we got married, we just decided, how just

587
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: let's invite everyone. Let's just have a big party and

588
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: just invite everyone. So I had, you know, a family

589
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,879
Speaker 1: that we we you know, we we we profiled who

590
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: who lost their house in Hurricane Katrina. We had a

591
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: family who adopted Chinese, you know, girls who I had

592
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 1: stayed in contact with. We had a bunch of police officers.

593
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 1: We had some drug counselors. Because I I the relationship

594
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 1: that that the relationships that I build with these people

595
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: of their real relationships, because of what people have shared

596
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 1: with me. And and I am so fortunate to be

597
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,959
Speaker 1: able to have these kinds of relationships. And I don't

598
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 1: I don't stay in touch with everyone that I've ever profiled,

599
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 1: but they all have my number and can text or

600
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: call me. And you know, I have a text thread

601
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: going right now. This man that I profiled when I

602
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: was working for the Oprah Show, his entire family was

603
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: addicted to heroin. His his wife eventually succumbed to addiction.

604
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: Her addiction. He ended up in car righted. But he

605
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: texts me all the time to tell me that he

606
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 1: just gotta his his union license. He sends me pictures

607
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: of the house that he's building. He told me he

608
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: just bought his dad's truck from him, the first vehicle

609
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: he's ever bought. And I cherish those those text messages

610
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 1: from those people, And I get them randomly, but I

611
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: but I cherished them. Yeah, when someone really trusts you

612
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 1: with their truth, it's such an intimate experience and how

613
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: beautiful it must be to really get to cultivate that

614
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: repeatedly with people, especially because you choose to bear witness

615
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: in a lot of communities that people aren't paying attention to.

616
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: So there's such there's such a gift in hearing people. Well,

617
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: that's the whole, that's that's that's that's the gist of

618
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: my work. And again I fall into the trap of

619
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: of of of you know, listening to people who again

620
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: espouse the same values that I do. But when it

621
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 1: comes to my work, I really really try hard to

622
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 1: to put my judgment aside and just hear people, and

623
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: it really has been enlightening for me to do that.

624
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: I've even been embedded with a militia, you know, a

625
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: a bunch of guys who are who are defiant about

626
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 1: their Second Amendment rights, and they let me in bed

627
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 1: with them because they knew that even though I vehemently

628
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: oppose you know, I have I have, I have visceral

629
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 1: feelings about about gun control and whether people should possess

630
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,839
Speaker 1: assault weapons. They knew I would give them a fair

631
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:04,919
Speaker 1: shot and allow them to to talk, right. They knew

632
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 1: that I would not be exploitative. I might, I might

633
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: express my feelings, but I would give them a chance

634
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,839
Speaker 1: to talk. And that's what we really try to do.

635
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: I don't know that a lot of shows really do that.

636
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,479
Speaker 1: I look at myself as just the vehicle through which

637
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 1: people can experience things. And I might hold your hand

638
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: to introduce you to people that you might otherwise never encounter.

639
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,399
Speaker 1: But I'm not going to tell you what to think,

640
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to make the story about me.

641
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you a chance to get to

642
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: know people that you might not otherwise have the time

643
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 1: or have the desire to get to know, and who knows.

644
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: In the end, you might walk away feeling a little

645
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 1: bit differently, or you might find that you can relate

646
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: to these people in ways that you might not have

647
00:42:56,040 --> 00:43:00,359
Speaker 1: otherwise ever thought you could. It's so cool, it's it's

648
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: such a service, really, and I think a reminder And

649
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,280
Speaker 1: I am curious because obviously you're you're in this space

650
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 1: where you are comfortable getting so personal with people. But

651
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: I remember, these are my moments where I just moved

652
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: on a bashion fan where I'm like, well, I remember

653
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:21,320
Speaker 1: when this happened to you, because I read the article.

654
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 1: I remember, you know when you started on the view,

655
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: coming in from this space as a journalist and then

656
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: coming into still be a journalist, but to share of

657
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: yourself in a different way. Yeah, there was this expectation

658
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 1: that you were just going to open up about every

659
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,720
Speaker 1: aspect of your life, and you got asked a question

660
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: immediately that made you very uncomfortable. I don't know if

661
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 1: you want to talk about that or not, but how

662
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: do you do that and what's the shift? Because you

663
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,919
Speaker 1: know you were at USC, you're a journalist. I also

664
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 1: went to USC. I don't know if we've ever talked

665
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: about this. I get very excited about it. I'm like

666
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 1: Annaburg for life. I loved it so so much. But

667
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,839
Speaker 1: what what is that kind of shift feel like? And

668
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,839
Speaker 1: how did you, as a as a young woman at

669
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: that stage in your career, how did you adjust for that?

670
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: I think it would be so good for so many

671
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: women listening to here. It was pretty surreal one because

672
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 1: I was a journalist before I started the View, and

673
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 1: and and it was really drilled into me to not

674
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,399
Speaker 1: talk about my personal life or or or just kind

675
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 1: of you know, just be cautious about about expressing too much.

676
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: And then here I am on the View, sitting next

677
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 1: to Barbara Walters and Marathevia and Star Jones and meretheth

678
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 1: Vieira is asking if I'm a virgin or not on

679
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:52,320
Speaker 1: my first day work, to which I replied, my dad's

680
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: watching right now, so I'll just say yes. I think

681
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 1: that I try hard to keep most of my life private,

682
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 1: things that are really really personal. But I do think

683
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: that by sharing bits and pieces, I do think that

684
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: people feel like they can trust me even more. I mean,

685
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:18,919
Speaker 1: I think Meredith Vera, the same thing happened for her.

686
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: She kind of deviated from that characterization of what a

687
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 1: reporter should reveal. And I think it it served her

688
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: well because people came to really like her and and

689
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: feel for her when she was going through you know,

690
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 1: issues with her her husband who had MS, or you know,

691
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: raising three kids and being a working mom. And it

692
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: wasn't intentional For me, I think in the in a way,

693
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 1: going to View was helpful because again, not only did

694
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: I come from a roles In background, but I'm Asian.

695
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: So Asian culture is is probably the least communicative, the

696
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 1: most shut down community there is ethnic community. Uh, And

697
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 1: so it was a real shift for me to be

698
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: expressive and to do so on a national television in

699
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: front of a national television audience. It must have been

700
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: a bit of a culture shock for sure. Oh for sure.

701
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: It was so uneasy. But so how did you keep

702
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:42,319
Speaker 1: coming in every day? You know? I think that I

703
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: I was pretty cautious about what I was willing to

704
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 1: talk about and what I didn't want to talk about.

705
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: But I got myself into trouble a few times because

706
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:54,879
Speaker 1: it is a it is a show that really encourages candor,

707
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,479
Speaker 1: and it was one of the few that did so.

708
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 1: It was you know, the View is a it was

709
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:05,839
Speaker 1: a pioneer at the time, because you know, you had

710
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: journalists sitting at this table and they were talking about

711
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,760
Speaker 1: everything happening in their lives. But it was I think

712
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: as much as I wasn't crazy about the job, I

713
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 1: think I developed skills there that have have served me

714
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: well because I do think that people relate to you

715
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: more if you let them in a little bit. But

716
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: but it's but it's still important to have boundaries, of course.

717
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: Well yeah, God, I think about that so much because

718
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 1: I want to have really vulnerable conversations about humanity with people.

719
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: I want to investigate those things. I want to share

720
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 1: about things that I'm learning. Also to kind of undo

721
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 1: that horrible two dimensional projection of social media, which makes

722
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 1: everybody feel like anyone in the public eye has their

723
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,400
Speaker 1: life figured out. It's like news flash, none of us

724
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 1: know nobody knows what they're doing. The most successful people

725
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: in the world will admit that they feel like tomorrow

726
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 1: is going to be the day where everyone finds out

727
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: they don't know what they're doing, you know, And I

728
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 1: love I loved hearing Oprah say that no matter who

729
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,879
Speaker 1: she ever interviewed. At the end of the interview, when

730
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 1: the cameras would stop. They would lean toward her and go,

731
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 1: did I do okay? From presidents to Beyonce, everyone just

732
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 1: wants to know that they did okay. And and it

733
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 1: is tricky when you when you really want to share,

734
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: but then how much do you share? And and what

735
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 1: do you keep private? And I think especially for us

736
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 1: as women, you know, I haven't done this yet, but

737
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 1: you have when you become a mom. You can only

738
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 1: hide that for so long. The world is gonna know

739
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 1: you're pregnant, They're gonna know you had a baby. How

740
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: do you how do you set boundaries around what you

741
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: share about the family people know you have? And I

742
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: just imagine it's very complicated. Yeah it is. I mean,

743
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 1: I I'm not like a huge celebrity, so I think

744
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,360
Speaker 1: I and maybe I'm being naive because I probably share

745
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:15,359
Speaker 1: more than I should because I I became apparent when

746
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 1: I was a little bit older. So it's like every

747
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 1: little thing that my kids do, like I want to

748
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 1: just I'm just so proud of it and excited. But

749
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: at the same time, I do think that there are

750
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: you know, they're dangers to that. And on the one hand,

751
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: while I think as a culture, we we are sharing

752
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: so much we also are are conveying, you know, and

753
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: I think everyone does this right, that things like I

754
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 1: think our social media life is the life that we

755
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 1: want people to see that we live, right, And I

756
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: actually wish that people would be more vulnerable and I

757
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 1: and I, I mean, there are a few people out

758
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 1: there who do. But I think that's one of the

759
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 1: reasons why when I was talking about how when we

760
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 1: kind of showed that vulnerability, we're on a live stage, right,

761
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 1: and so you can't you can't put a filter on

762
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 1: that like you can on Instagram. You know, whatever just

763
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: comes out of your mouth comes out of your mouth.

764
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 1: But with social media now you can perfect every image

765
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 1: and you can choose what you decide to show the world,

766
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 1: which is empowering on the one hand, but on the

767
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 1: other hand, I think it's really it's really made a

768
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 1: whole generation of young people feel so much more insecure

769
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: in so many ways. It's, you know, the worst aspects

770
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 1: of high school and popularity magnified, you know, and it's

771
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 1: and you're right, nobody has it figured out, you know,

772
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:51,280
Speaker 1: But for some reason, we now exists in this world

773
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:57,279
Speaker 1: where we feel compelled two convey that we have or

774
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 1: that life is great when more people are I mean,

775
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: I don't know, Sophia, if you if you feel this,

776
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 1: but I've been you know, I've been in a little

777
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,320
Speaker 1: bit of a funk in the last couple of weeks

778
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 1: because I've just I just feel like they're people are

779
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: really hurting right now, you know, just hearing about how

780
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: many suicides have happened. You know, my my good friend

781
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 1: is the vice pro provost of wellness at USC and

782
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,399
Speaker 1: he text me to say that in the last three

783
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 1: weeks there have been five suicides there, two and two days.

784
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 1: There's something going on right now where young people are

785
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:37,800
Speaker 1: just they're they're they're hurting. And in the past, I think,

786
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,440
Speaker 1: I think young people have always had angst, right, but

787
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 1: in the past they would have sought out human beings

788
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 1: and now they're just going straight to their devices and

789
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 1: in some cases digging themselves deeper into a hole. Yeah,

790
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 1: because the devices perpetuate the lie that everyone else has

791
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 1: it all figured. Yeah. I mean, I don't know about you,

792
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: but when I see a bunch of girlfriends get together

793
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,800
Speaker 1: or for dinner and they didn't call me like I'm

794
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 1: I feel a little like stab in the heart. Of

795
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 1: course I was. I was here, but I get over

796
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: it because I can't. It's you know, it's just like

797
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 1: that sort of momentary kind of paying But for young

798
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:20,479
Speaker 1: people who who who in some in so many ways

799
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: don't feel like life is worth living if it's not

800
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:29,879
Speaker 1: on social media. Uh, it's it's devastating. It's really devastating.

801
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 1: And so, you know, on the one hand, I think

802
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: if we if we, if we, if we show our vulnerabilities,

803
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:41,399
Speaker 1: I think it makes or allows people to relate to us.

804
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 1: But you know, what are we really showing? Mm hmm. Yeah,

805
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 1: And and and yet it feels so important. I sometimes

806
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:55,439
Speaker 1: when I get nervous to share something that might be

807
00:52:55,520 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: you know, quote unquote too personal, I think I almost

808
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:04,399
Speaker 1: feel like it's a duty to do so, because so

809
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 1: much of what's being shared is impersonal. And I think

810
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: about how we can all kind of walk in the

811
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:17,839
Speaker 1: world and press toward kindness or self acceptance, or exploration

812
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 1: or or curiosity. And I think we could really use it.

813
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:25,399
Speaker 1: And and it's part of the reason that I'm so

814
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 1: glad your show is on. Really, I just I'm so relieved.

815
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:35,760
Speaker 1: And yeah, I guess I get curious about the evolution

816
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:39,399
Speaker 1: of that as well, because you know, you went from

817
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 1: the view you ended up working for Oprah as an

818
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 1: investigative reporter, which has just got to be the coolest

819
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: thing ever. Was pretty cool because as you think about that,

820
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:50,799
Speaker 1: I mean, her show was such a touch point for

821
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:53,319
Speaker 1: so many people to learn about each other and to

822
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 1: be vulnerable. Yeah, I really I missed that show so much.

823
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 1: I think we all miss it. I'm like, please just

824
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,400
Speaker 1: come back. I know you did it and you and

825
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 1: you served your time and it's probably really nice to

826
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 1: be retired on your ranch, but please come back. Yeah,

827
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 1: I missed that. Just that thoughtful dialogue every day. It's

828
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 1: it's really hard to find that. I mean, you know

829
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 1: that fortunately their podcasts, but to have that staple every

830
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: day when you got there, well, first of all, how

831
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,880
Speaker 1: did you get there? And then what what kinds of

832
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 1: stories were you asked to cover? So I went on

833
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 1: the Open Show to promote an episode that I had

834
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 1: done for the National Geographic Channel. At the time, I

835
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 1: was hosting a show called Explorer, and I believe it

836
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:44,800
Speaker 1: was an episode about incarcerated mothers that we produced, and

837
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 1: the Open Show asked me to come on and promote it,

838
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 1: or or they agreed to allow me to come on

839
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 1: and promote it, and Oprah and her team were I

840
00:54:56,120 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 1: think they were really touched by the episode, but they

841
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 1: were looking for someone to sort of send out into

842
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 1: the world to cover those kinds of stories. And so

843
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 1: of course it was the greatest honor of my life

844
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:14,320
Speaker 1: to have been asked to to work on her show.

845
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 1: But it was always so surreal when I would be

846
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 1: sitting next to her and trying to explain what I

847
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:22,919
Speaker 1: had just done and I look up and there she is.

848
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 1: But but I I'm certain I wouldn't be doing what

849
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:33,240
Speaker 1: I am doing now if she and her team hadn't

850
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 1: taken a risk on me or brought me into their

851
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 1: fold and same with a view as much as I

852
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 1: you know, it was challenged to be there because I

853
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 1: just it was. It was an awkward kind of job,

854
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: you know. They were all sort of steps to get

855
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,839
Speaker 1: to where I am now. But Oprah believing in me

856
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: and encouraging me to tell these kinds of stories and

857
00:55:55,600 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 1: and and her own just genuine curiosity. M hm. Really, um,

858
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 1: I think is the reason I'm I'm doing this, you know,

859
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 1: she she gave me the platform to be able to

860
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 1: do that on on such a widespread level, and and

861
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: and I will always be so grateful for that. Is

862
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:17,720
Speaker 1: there a story in particular from that time that really

863
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:21,400
Speaker 1: sticks out in your mind, something that just felt so

864
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 1: so many of them continue to live with me. But

865
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:30,920
Speaker 1: when she sent me to the Democratic Republic of the

866
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 1: Congo to work on a story about gang rape um

867
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:41,720
Speaker 1: and about these villages that would just be torn apart

868
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:46,279
Speaker 1: and ransacked, and and and the things that children were

869
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 1: forced to watch happened to their mother or even take

870
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 1: part in, it was so devastating. You know, whenever I

871
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:57,920
Speaker 1: would show up, I would see the audience and I

872
00:56:57,960 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 1: would think to myself, oh my god, you came here

873
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:03,799
Speaker 1: probably to get a car, and here I'm going to

874
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 1: be talking about gang rape in the Congo. But the audience,

875
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 1: her audiences were always incredible and so receptive and in

876
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 1: in in one episode of television, I think that about

877
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 1: three million dollars was raised for the organization that I

878
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 1: accompanied to report that story. It might not have been

879
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 1: that airing, it might have been like multiple airings, but cumulatively,

880
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 1: about three million dollars was raised. And that's when I

881
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 1: recognized one the power of Oprah. I mean, you know,

882
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: of course we all know her to be you know,

883
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:46,439
Speaker 1: she's Oprah, but that people really did want to know

884
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 1: about things that were happening in the world, and that

885
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 1: it required someone like Oprah right to say, look, I

886
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 1: know there's a lot happening in the world, and it's

887
00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 1: it's it's it's hard to get invested in people in

888
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 1: far away places. But here's why it's important that you're

889
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,959
Speaker 1: aware that this is happening. I mean, what she did

890
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 1: for her audience, it's just it's indescribable. It can never

891
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 1: be replaced. And the impact that she made on so

892
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 1: many people is just colossal. That's so cool. What do

893
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 1: you think you learned about yourself when you were working

894
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 1: on that show? What I learned about myself so much.

895
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 1: I learned that everything that I do moving forward, every

896
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 1: job that I ever take or do, I want to

897
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 1: have an impact. Um. I want to contribute positively to

898
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 1: the conversation because I can. You can choose to contribute

899
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 1: positively in what you do, in how you act, in

900
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 1: what you put out into the universe, and and and

901
00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 1: watching her do so and getting an opportunity on her

902
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 1: platform to be able to do that just really solidified

903
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 1: that desire in me to just want to put productive

904
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 1: energy out there into the world. Productive energy. I like that.

905
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 1: Now you mentioned something earlier and I just think it's

906
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: an incredible story. You mentioned that your sister is also

907
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:25,920
Speaker 1: a journalist, and Laura was on assignment in North Korea.

908
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 1: She was on assignment in South Korea and China. Yeah,

909
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 1: that was where we thought she was going. That's where

910
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 1: she was, and she was held captive in North Korea.

911
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 1: Right what she and her team hired a fixer, someone

912
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 1: who had worked with different television outlets before, to take

913
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 1: them to observe the thoroughfare where people were escaping from

914
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 1: North Korea and and and seeking refuge in China. So

915
00:59:56,240 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 1: they hire this fixer to just show them where the

916
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 1: the line of demarcation is. And it is believed that

917
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 1: he had nefarious intentions and intentionally took them to cross

918
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 1: the border into North Korea. And when they when they

919
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 1: realized that they had crossed into North Korea and they

920
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 1: were they had turned around and they were heading back

921
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 1: to the Chinese side, they heard soldiers yelling and they

922
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 1: started to run and they were firmly on the Chinese

923
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: side of the border when North Korean soldiers crossed into

924
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:43,440
Speaker 1: another country, violated their their national sovereignty, and violently dragged

925
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 1: my sister in her colleague back into North Korea. So yeah,

926
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 1: it was pretty rrowing, pretty arrowing experience. And and she

927
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 1: was then held for five months inside a country with

928
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 1: which we have no diplomatic relationship. And even though I

929
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 1: had worked as a journalist for many the years, you know,

930
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 1: I thought that we could just pick up a phone

931
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 1: and call and negotiate a release. But when two countries

932
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 1: have no diplomatic relationship, you just you can't even do that.

933
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:16,640
Speaker 1: So it was a pretty pretty arduous ordeal, to say

934
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 1: the least, and uh and terrifying. I can't even fathom.

935
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 1: I'm just so I'm awe struck by what both of

936
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 1: your experiences must have been on each end of of

937
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 1: that reality for five months. And I'm curious to your point,

938
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 1: because we have no relationship, and you know, asterisk what

939
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:43,880
Speaker 1: what's happening now is utterly insane. And I wonder how

940
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 1: you even begin, because you know the severity of the

941
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 1: reality there as a journalist, and you worked so frantically

942
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 1: to get her free, and it took so long, and

943
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:01,400
Speaker 1: I wonder how you even know where to start. Well,

944
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 1: you don't. I mean I called everyone I knew, and

945
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:10,440
Speaker 1: over time I had developed quite a quite a role

946
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 1: intex of contacts in the in the in the world

947
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 1: of diplomacy, and I just I tried to get in

948
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:22,400
Speaker 1: contact with everyone I could, and I was just, you know,

949
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 1: I found myself at an impast time and time again,

950
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 1: people like Oprah called me to see, you know, to

951
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 1: see if she could do anything. But even Oprah couldn't

952
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 1: do anything. And former presidents and secretaries of state, and

953
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 1: really it was it was my sister who convinced her

954
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 1: captors that in order to achieve what they wanted, they

955
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 1: had to allow her to call me. So, you know,

956
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 1: it was at a time when tensions were very high

957
01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:01,120
Speaker 1: between our two country reason, I mean, they're always they're

958
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:05,280
Speaker 1: always tense. But President Obama was was new in office.

959
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton, it was she was she was brand new

960
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 1: secretary of State, and it was imperative for her to

961
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 1: talk tough on North Korea, to to to not show weakness.

962
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 1: And here North Korea was trying to procure political concessions

963
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:22,360
Speaker 1: out of out of their captivity, and so it was

964
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 1: it was it's a real time to be in the

965
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: midst of that. And in the end, people may not

966
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 1: recall that Bill Clinton was asked to be the envoy

967
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:40,480
Speaker 1: to go and negotiate the release of my sister and

968
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 1: her colleague. And when he went over there, he he

969
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 1: said that the former leader of North Korea, Kim Jong Ill,

970
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 1: told him that the reason why the North Korean government

971
01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:59,840
Speaker 1: insisted that Bill Clinton go and negotiate my sister's wilid

972
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 1: was because he'd always wanted to meet him. He always

973
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 1: wanted to meet Bill Clinton. And the reason was because

974
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:15,000
Speaker 1: when Kim Jong Ill's father, the founder of North Korea,

975
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 1: Kim Il sung, died, Bill Clinton was the first world

976
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:26,000
Speaker 1: leader to call and offer his condolences, even before any

977
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 1: of North Korea's allies called, and it was a gesture

978
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:36,320
Speaker 1: of humanity that he had never forgotten. And so you know,

979
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 1: and again this this goes back to communication. It all

980
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:48,440
Speaker 1: goes back to communication. And here you had two countries

981
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 1: that have historically had this very contentious relationship, or as

982
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 1: long as North Korea has existed, had this contentious relationship.

983
01:04:56,160 --> 01:05:01,640
Speaker 1: But those gestures of humanity and diplomacy had had an impact.

984
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 1: Goes to show that even at that level, engagement can

985
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:09,760
Speaker 1: be really productive. You know, I think it's a it's

986
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 1: a lesson to learn for all of us on a

987
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 1: macro scale, but also, you know, on a very micro scale.

988
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:21,640
Speaker 1: How how do you think that that experience affects the

989
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 1: way that you think about traveling? Because when you talk

990
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:29,080
Speaker 1: about going somewhere like the Congo to expose rape as

991
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:32,600
Speaker 1: a weapon of war, or some of these other incredibly

992
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 1: dangerous places Afghanistan that you've been to, how how does

993
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 1: having been through that with your sister, and I would

994
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:44,000
Speaker 1: imagine coupled with the reality of you being a parent,

995
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:47,560
Speaker 1: how does that affect at this stage in your career

996
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 1: as a journalist where you will and won't go well?

997
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:55,560
Speaker 1: Now as a mother, I'm certainly more cautious about where

998
01:05:55,600 --> 01:06:01,680
Speaker 1: I go, But I've never felt as strongly about promoting

999
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:06,880
Speaker 1: and supporting journalists who really do risk their lives to

1000
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 1: tell stories and to communicate things that are happening in

1001
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 1: the world. I mean, when I was doing most of

1002
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 1: my international work, the world was a different place. America

1003
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 1: was so highly regarded, and the world has changed. People

1004
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:28,560
Speaker 1: don't feel the same way anymore, and so again, the

1005
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 1: risks that journalists are taking now I think far outway

1006
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 1: those that I took as a younger journalist. But nevertheless,

1007
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 1: I do I do think that we, you know, we

1008
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:45,880
Speaker 1: need to exercise caution in choosing where we go, but

1009
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 1: actually going, I think is more important than ever. Actually

1010
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:58,280
Speaker 1: traveling to different parts of the world and embedding and

1011
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:02,840
Speaker 1: immersing oneself in cultures that are unfamiliar. I think there's

1012
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 1: just there's just so much value to that. And the

1013
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 1: way I looked at it when I would visit places

1014
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:12,720
Speaker 1: that are known to be contentious is that for me,

1015
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 1: I would go in for a couple of weeks max,

1016
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:17,920
Speaker 1: and then I would leave. But the people who live

1017
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:22,240
Speaker 1: under those conditions have to do so every every day

1018
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:24,560
Speaker 1: of their lives. And so if I can somehow communicate

1019
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:26,920
Speaker 1: a fraction of how they live or things that are

1020
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:29,920
Speaker 1: happening in their lives, then I will I will have

1021
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:32,760
Speaker 1: have have done my job and encourage people to know

1022
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:37,919
Speaker 1: more about their lives. So yeah, for me, travel has

1023
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:43,040
Speaker 1: been just, without question, the best education that I've ever received.

1024
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:48,960
Speaker 1: That's beautiful, And can I ask before we wrap up, truly,

1025
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:51,960
Speaker 1: because I'm just curious about how you view this as

1026
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:57,240
Speaker 1: a person with such incredible geopolitical knowledge and expertise, When

1027
01:07:57,240 --> 01:08:02,200
Speaker 1: we talk about your sister's story, and we look at

1028
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:08,080
Speaker 1: this destabilization of America's place in the world, and how

1029
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:10,040
Speaker 1: far down the latter we've fallen as a as a

1030
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 1: respectable and sort of trustworthy world leader. Looking at what's

1031
01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:19,920
Speaker 1: going on with Trump and North Korea right now, what

1032
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:26,320
Speaker 1: what do you make of all of this? So interestingly enough,

1033
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:32,600
Speaker 1: when my sister was being held captive, it was communicated

1034
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:36,840
Speaker 1: to me through her that the North Korean government just

1035
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:39,760
Speaker 1: wanted to have dialogue. They wanted to have direct dialogue

1036
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:44,920
Speaker 1: with the United States, and they hadn't really ever had

1037
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:49,479
Speaker 1: that kind of direct dialogue. You know, there have been

1038
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:52,519
Speaker 1: a number of Secretaries of State who have interacted with

1039
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:57,240
Speaker 1: the North Korean leadership, but but in limited doses, right,

1040
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:03,559
Speaker 1: And so it seemed ludicrous what the Trump administration is doing,

1041
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 1: and in many ways it is. And it's confounding to

1042
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:16,559
Speaker 1: call someone who to call a a a zealot like

1043
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:19,240
Speaker 1: Kim Jong un his buddy or his friend, and to

1044
01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:22,920
Speaker 1: say that he has a he's in love with him

1045
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:26,720
Speaker 1: is just is ludicrous. Someone who you know, as at

1046
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:30,480
Speaker 1: the helm of a country filled with with with goologs,

1047
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:33,920
Speaker 1: where people who express dissent for the government can be

1048
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:41,080
Speaker 1: tortured or worse. But I am a proponent of direct dialogue.

1049
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:46,599
Speaker 1: I am because whatever we've done in the past hasn't worked.

1050
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:53,400
Speaker 1: And North Korea is the kind of country that that

1051
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:58,080
Speaker 1: and and the North Korean leadership is one where saving

1052
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:02,040
Speaker 1: face that sort of adheres to the principle of saving face.

1053
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:09,160
Speaker 1: And when you're constantly sort of talking tough and antagonizing,

1054
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:14,760
Speaker 1: you you, you arrive at an impass And so I

1055
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 1: do think that constant engagement is something that that that

1056
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:24,680
Speaker 1: could be productive. And so while I have again I

1057
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:30,639
Speaker 1: am confounded by by his approach to these relationships because

1058
01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:39,760
Speaker 1: he's discounting the egregiousness of of his behavior and his policies.

1059
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:44,120
Speaker 1: I'm talking about Kim Jong Moon. I am a proponent

1060
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 1: of having meaningful dialogue. I guess I just wish it

1061
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:52,280
Speaker 1: felt meaningful rather than you know, in pardon the expression,

1062
01:10:52,280 --> 01:10:54,880
Speaker 1: but it feels very masturbatory to me, like these two

1063
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:58,840
Speaker 1: malignant narcissists are just stroking each other's ego, but that

1064
01:10:59,040 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 1: our leader is so naive to the reality that while

1065
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:06,599
Speaker 1: he's having his ego stroked and enjoying it, North Korea

1066
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:10,680
Speaker 1: is amassing nuclear warheads and testing them so flagrantly. You know,

1067
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:13,200
Speaker 1: they're they're testing missiles to let us know that and

1068
01:11:13,240 --> 01:11:17,000
Speaker 1: that they're growing countries is on the verge of utter

1069
01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:21,800
Speaker 1: chaos and starvation, and that thousands of people are in

1070
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:25,360
Speaker 1: goologs there. Yeah, I mean, it's it's you know, there's

1071
01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:30,960
Speaker 1: there's there's you know, there's such male ego driving our policy.

1072
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 1: Right so so so there's no simple answer to that

1073
01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:38,720
Speaker 1: that question. I'm confounded. But at the same time, I

1074
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:42,000
Speaker 1: am a proponent of dialogue. Sure, I just don't think

1075
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 1: that's how we arrive at meaningful dialogue. Right, yeah, agree, cool,

1076
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:51,760
Speaker 1: Thank you. I just wanted to pick your brain on that.

1077
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:54,920
Speaker 1: When when we get into the show, now, when we

1078
01:11:54,960 --> 01:12:00,679
Speaker 1: talk about This is Life premier on CNN or listeners,

1079
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:04,360
Speaker 1: the first episode talked about sugar daddies and sugar babies,

1080
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:07,400
Speaker 1: and since then you've you've covered everything from life in

1081
01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:11,280
Speaker 1: prison to the Satanic Temple, female m A fighters, children

1082
01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:17,000
Speaker 1: of killers, gender fluidity, so many incredible topics. And as

1083
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:20,719
Speaker 1: you mentioned, you immerse yourself in these communities. You really

1084
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:24,760
Speaker 1: get in there and do the work of becoming familiar

1085
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:29,800
Speaker 1: and listening in and offering real intimate understanding to people.

1086
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:35,680
Speaker 1: I'm curious how you pick the topics, because as a

1087
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:38,639
Speaker 1: person who is so interested in so many things, I'm

1088
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:40,920
Speaker 1: always so relieved. I'm like, God, I wanted to know

1089
01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:43,120
Speaker 1: about that, and I wanted to know about this, and

1090
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:46,160
Speaker 1: you're You're in all of it, and I'm curious how

1091
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:50,760
Speaker 1: you decide and at times how you become aware of

1092
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:54,559
Speaker 1: some of these niche communities. Well, we, my team and

1093
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:59,519
Speaker 1: I we are a pretty voracious consumers of information, and

1094
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:03,360
Speaker 1: every season will put together a pretty exhaustive list of

1095
01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:06,120
Speaker 1: of things that we want to cover, and CNN ultimately

1096
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:10,960
Speaker 1: green lights the eight that we move forward on. But um,

1097
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:15,479
Speaker 1: what we do try to do every season is pick

1098
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:23,360
Speaker 1: a number of pretty hard hitting, provocative, but very relevant topics.

1099
01:13:23,439 --> 01:13:27,559
Speaker 1: This season, we our season premiere is about pornography addiction.

1100
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:32,759
Speaker 1: And you know, porn has been in existence forever. People

1101
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 1: become addicted to porn forever. But the pornography that young

1102
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:41,760
Speaker 1: kids are getting exposed to today, as you know, at

1103
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:46,320
Speaker 1: earlier ages than ever before, the age of entry in

1104
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:51,679
Speaker 1: most cases is eight. Um, And to say that it's

1105
01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:55,760
Speaker 1: extreme is to grossly understate the severity of what kids

1106
01:13:55,760 --> 01:13:59,479
Speaker 1: are getting exposed to on devices that live on their bodies.

1107
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:08,760
Speaker 1: It's having a tremendous impact on how kids are perceiving

1108
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:13,439
Speaker 1: sex relationships because once you see the things that they

1109
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:17,240
Speaker 1: can access at the tip of their fingertips, they can't

1110
01:14:17,240 --> 01:14:21,080
Speaker 1: erase it. You know, it's embedded in their minds forever.

1111
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:26,439
Speaker 1: And parents need to realize that the moment you give

1112
01:14:26,479 --> 01:14:29,320
Speaker 1: your child the device, they're going to have access to

1113
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:31,960
Speaker 1: this no matter what restriction do you have. If you

1114
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:35,759
Speaker 1: just put the word porn into Google and click on images,

1115
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:42,519
Speaker 1: you will be appalled by what comes up. And so

1116
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:46,600
Speaker 1: that that is an issue that again it's it is

1117
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 1: having such an impact on the way young people are

1118
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:57,920
Speaker 1: perceiving relationships and and and really I think young people

1119
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:00,720
Speaker 1: are are are now currently unable boll to even have

1120
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:03,719
Speaker 1: healthy relationships as a result of what they've what they've seen,

1121
01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:06,280
Speaker 1: which is so different than the porn that we were

1122
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:09,439
Speaker 1: exposed to when we were kids. I mean, it couldn't

1123
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:13,519
Speaker 1: be more different. We have a piece about benzodiazepines which

1124
01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:16,960
Speaker 1: I believe could possibly become the next opioid crisis. We're

1125
01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:21,479
Speaker 1: talking about valium zan x at a van klonopin. If

1126
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:24,680
Speaker 1: we've never been prescribed them we know people who are

1127
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:27,320
Speaker 1: probably taking them or and have been taking them for

1128
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:35,480
Speaker 1: a long time. Our episode is so it's shocking, it's important,

1129
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:40,040
Speaker 1: it's illuminating, and I think people need to wake up.

1130
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:43,360
Speaker 1: You know, these are medications that are supposed to treat anxiety.

1131
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:46,720
Speaker 1: Yet we're more anxious than than we've ever been. So

1132
01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:49,000
Speaker 1: we again, we get we we we take on a

1133
01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:52,400
Speaker 1: number of pretty pretty heavy topics, but we also have

1134
01:15:52,439 --> 01:15:57,200
Speaker 1: an episode about swingers and an episode about the bond

1135
01:15:57,280 --> 01:16:01,800
Speaker 1: between identical twins, so we try to vary it up.

1136
01:16:02,240 --> 01:16:05,200
Speaker 1: And it's really I think that if you watch an

1137
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:09,720
Speaker 1: entire season, you will you'll just have so many, so

1138
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:14,680
Speaker 1: many unique experiences, and if we do our jobs right,

1139
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:17,880
Speaker 1: we will have we will have compelled you and provoked

1140
01:16:17,960 --> 01:16:20,000
Speaker 1: you to really think about things that you you might

1141
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:22,880
Speaker 1: have otherwise not thought about, and talk about things that

1142
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:26,880
Speaker 1: you might have otherwise not thought. It's just it's so

1143
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:29,280
Speaker 1: exciting to me and I and I think it's so

1144
01:16:29,400 --> 01:16:34,360
Speaker 1: cool that you're exploring this gamut of topics from you know,

1145
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:37,760
Speaker 1: your point about the twins. I'm fascinated by that sort

1146
01:16:37,800 --> 01:16:40,960
Speaker 1: of ability to feel fans and pain that twins have

1147
01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:44,599
Speaker 1: and and that sort of knowing that they experience. Yeah,

1148
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:48,960
Speaker 1: it's such a beautiful episode. I I've always I've also

1149
01:16:49,040 --> 01:16:52,439
Speaker 1: been just really fascinated by identical twins. And you know,

1150
01:16:52,439 --> 01:16:55,240
Speaker 1: you're asking me, how do you come up with the topics? Really,

1151
01:16:56,360 --> 01:16:58,799
Speaker 1: as I told you as a kid, I have always

1152
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:01,080
Speaker 1: had this insatiable curious city. And to be able to

1153
01:17:01,120 --> 01:17:05,720
Speaker 1: do a show and and and pitch you know, cultures

1154
01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:09,760
Speaker 1: and worlds and topics that I'm just fascinated by is

1155
01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:14,840
Speaker 1: pretty cool. And from simply fascinating to taboo and to

1156
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:18,080
Speaker 1: not shy away from any of them, because again, you know,

1157
01:17:18,160 --> 01:17:19,960
Speaker 1: we are all part of the same race. You know,

1158
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:22,760
Speaker 1: we are human beings, and I've always believed that the

1159
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:25,400
Speaker 1: more we know about each other the better, the better

1160
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:29,240
Speaker 1: we become, the smarter we become, and ultimately the better

1161
01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:34,160
Speaker 1: we become. Absolutely, what what advice do you have for

1162
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:40,639
Speaker 1: young people who want to get into investigative journalism. Well,

1163
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:44,040
Speaker 1: if your intention is to become rich and famous, you're

1164
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:47,720
Speaker 1: in the wrong line of work. But if you if

1165
01:17:47,760 --> 01:17:50,880
Speaker 1: you do have an insatiable curiosity, if you think about

1166
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:55,720
Speaker 1: yourself as a sponge that just derives pleasure from absorbing

1167
01:17:55,760 --> 01:17:59,400
Speaker 1: as much as you can, it's still a pretty incredible

1168
01:17:59,720 --> 01:18:03,439
Speaker 1: line of work. To be exposed to so many different

1169
01:18:03,560 --> 01:18:08,000
Speaker 1: kinds of things and worlds and people is really exciting

1170
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:10,240
Speaker 1: and and for those who are wanting to pursue it,

1171
01:18:10,360 --> 01:18:16,639
Speaker 1: I would say, leave your comfort zone. Learned write right

1172
01:18:16,720 --> 01:18:20,880
Speaker 1: about when you leave your comfort zone, and you know

1173
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:24,559
Speaker 1: there are more outlets available to journalists and aspiring journalists

1174
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:26,639
Speaker 1: and ever before. Again, you may not make a tremendous

1175
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:30,400
Speaker 1: amount of money by submitting your work, but there are

1176
01:18:30,439 --> 01:18:32,880
Speaker 1: more outlets for it to be read or seen than

1177
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:35,920
Speaker 1: than ever before. So I would say go for it

1178
01:18:35,960 --> 01:18:38,759
Speaker 1: because I think it's a pretty it's a pretty exciting

1179
01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:41,719
Speaker 1: time in the world of journalism. It's a very different

1180
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:44,599
Speaker 1: time than when I first started. But there are a

1181
01:18:44,600 --> 01:18:48,639
Speaker 1: lot of opportunities that's exciting. And what do you think.

1182
01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:51,960
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's been a lot, But is there a

1183
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:55,080
Speaker 1: piece of best advice that stands out to you that

1184
01:18:55,120 --> 01:18:57,920
Speaker 1: you received over the course of your career? Thus far?

1185
01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:04,439
Speaker 1: Had so many, there's so many sort of quotes that

1186
01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:08,040
Speaker 1: live in my head right But for me, I've always

1187
01:19:08,080 --> 01:19:10,640
Speaker 1: just tried to be a really good listener. I know

1188
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:15,040
Speaker 1: that's cliche, but in that we've we've really stopped hearing

1189
01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:18,679
Speaker 1: each other. I think it's it's never been more important

1190
01:19:18,720 --> 01:19:24,559
Speaker 1: to convey the importance of being a good listener. Mm hmm.

1191
01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:29,040
Speaker 1: So the title of the podcast is called work in progress,

1192
01:19:29,560 --> 01:19:32,800
Speaker 1: and I'm curious when you hear that phrase, what comes

1193
01:19:32,800 --> 01:19:36,040
Speaker 1: to mind is something that you are still are currently

1194
01:19:36,200 --> 01:19:40,320
Speaker 1: in progress your life so much, Sophia. I mean, it's

1195
01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:43,200
Speaker 1: it's it's to your point when we first started about

1196
01:19:43,240 --> 01:19:46,280
Speaker 1: how we're all trying to figure it out. You know,

1197
01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:52,160
Speaker 1: when you introduce me, you expressed this really impressive bio. Right.

1198
01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:53,880
Speaker 1: I've I've done a lot of things. I've worked with

1199
01:19:53,920 --> 01:19:57,439
Speaker 1: some extraordinary people, I've worked for some incredible outlets. But

1200
01:19:58,280 --> 01:20:05,160
Speaker 1: every day is a journey and and and and I

1201
01:20:05,439 --> 01:20:10,920
Speaker 1: love absorbing every day and and that's why I feel

1202
01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:12,719
Speaker 1: so honored to be able to do what I do.

1203
01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:17,519
Speaker 1: It's why I love to feel so much because I don't, like,

1204
01:20:20,400 --> 01:20:24,439
Speaker 1: I want to be able to remember every day that

1205
01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:28,360
Speaker 1: I'm alive. You know, I don't. I don't want to

1206
01:20:28,400 --> 01:20:31,519
Speaker 1: do things in a perfunctory way, and I don't want

1207
01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:36,559
Speaker 1: things to get stagnant. I really would like to remember

1208
01:20:36,720 --> 01:20:42,800
Speaker 1: something about every day that I'm alive, because you know,

1209
01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:49,320
Speaker 1: our our, our space in this universe is not infinite. Yeah,

1210
01:20:49,400 --> 01:20:52,479
Speaker 1: and I and I feel really privileged to be able

1211
01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:56,639
Speaker 1: to be invited into so many different worlds. And if

1212
01:20:56,680 --> 01:20:59,920
Speaker 1: I can be that catalyst for people becoming more aware,

1213
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:05,160
Speaker 1: or for for for developing a little more compassion, for

1214
01:21:05,200 --> 01:21:09,439
Speaker 1: feeling just feeling at all, then that's something that makes

1215
01:21:09,479 --> 01:21:13,200
Speaker 1: me really proud. I love that. Thank you, Thank you.

1216
01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:20,080
Speaker 1: This show is executive produced by Me, Sophia Bush, and

1217
01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:24,960
Speaker 1: sim Sarna. Our supervising producer is Alison Bresnick. Our associate

1218
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:28,960
Speaker 1: producer is Kate Linley, Our editor is Josh Wendish, and

1219
01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:31,479
Speaker 1: our music was written by Jack Garrett and produced by

1220
01:21:31,479 --> 01:21:34,360
Speaker 1: Mark Foster. This show is brought to you by Clearly

1221
01:21:34,360 --> 01:21:35,639
Speaker 1: an Anatomy