1 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: Hello, Did you just butt dial me? Because I have 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: on my call display that a call from your number 3 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: but got my numbers blocked. That's how I know it's you. 4 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: You're the only person I know with a block number. 5 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 2: Is it where we have to go today? 6 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 3: Wait? 7 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 1: A couple of days ago, I think it was like 8 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: yesterday morning. Were you thinking about me? 9 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:25,959 Speaker 2: No? 10 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: I just thought that would be weird because I was 11 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: thinking about you, and I thought, huh, wouldn't it be 12 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 1: funny if she was thinking about me at the same time? 13 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:46,480 Speaker 1: Shut from Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight. 14 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: Today's episode the first in a two part series, Barbara 15 00:00:51,560 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: Part one. Barbara shut right after the break. Hello, Becky, Hi, 16 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: this is Becky, my mother in law. Last April, at 17 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: the start of the pandemic, my wife Emily told me 18 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: that her mom had a mystery to solve. Phoner. Emily 19 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 1: said immediately it was all very dramatic. How are you? 20 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: I'm fine, Becky, it should be said, is not the 21 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: dramatic type. There's a famous story about how while making 22 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: brunch for the family, her oven caught fire and as 23 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: everyone ran around phoning nine to one one searching for 24 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: the instruction manual to the fire extinguisher. Becky sat at 25 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: the dining room table silently, eating fruit salad. So while 26 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: Becky may not have a flare for the dramatic, her 27 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: daughter does. There's no time to waste. 28 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 3: Emily said, these events happened fifty two years ago. By 29 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 3: the way, so wait a second. 30 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: Emily said that they have like She was like, you 31 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: better pounce on this. 32 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 3: There were new revelations today. 33 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: Oh, I see. 34 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 3: Okay, how about an hour or two hours ago? Yeah, 35 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 3: did she tell you anything about it? 36 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: She told me nothing. She should just call just call 37 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: my mother. 38 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 3: Okay, you want to hear this story from the beginning. 39 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: Yes, that's a good place to start. 40 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 4: Okay. 41 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 3: I'm trying to help out with CEO's homeschooling just a 42 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 3: little bit. 43 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: THEO is my nephew and Becky's grandson. Last April, his 44 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: school shut down because of COVID, so Becky stepped into 45 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: tutorim over zoom. 46 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 3: So THEO. 47 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 2: Do you know what the word biography means? Biography is 48 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 2: a book written by the person that it's about. 49 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: No, yes, if I wrote a book. Becky and THEO 50 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,959 Speaker 1: met weekly, and for each lesson she gave him a 51 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: small homework assigned. 52 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 3: So the first assignment was to write a description you know, 53 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 3: a person, a place, to thing, just you know, a 54 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 3: couple paragraph descriptions. 55 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: THEO and Becky each did the assignment and then shared 56 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: their essays. THEO wrote about a World Cup soccer game, 57 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: and Becky, what. 58 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 3: Popped into my head was this friendship that I had 59 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty eight, before you were born. 60 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty eight, Becky was nineteen years old. She 61 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: lived in smalltown Minnesota and had never been out of 62 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: the country. She wanted to see Europe, so she linked 63 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: up with a work abroad program that got her a 64 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: job at a commercial laundromat in Copenhagen. 65 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 3: But it was kind of lonely because there was a 66 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 3: language barrier and there was no one else my age, 67 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 3: so it was kind of lonely. And then the third 68 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 3: week another American girl came. 69 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: What is her name? 70 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 3: Barbara shut. 71 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: My wife, Emily says that when she was growing up, 72 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: about once a year, Becky would remove the pictures above 73 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: the living room couch and project slides from Copenhagen. Emily 74 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: called this Becky Time a journey back to when Becky 75 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: was Becky not Mom, And right there with Becky. Hovering 76 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: above the couch was Barbara Shut. Becky and Barbara Shut 77 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: on a park bench eating sandwiches, Becky and Barbara Shut 78 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: partying in a room full of young Danes. Do you 79 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 1: have it in front of you, the thing that you. 80 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 3: Write my story? Yeah? I do. 81 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: Would you feel comfortable reading it? 82 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 3: Yeah? Here it is Looking for adventure. In the summer 83 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 3: of nineteen sixty eight, I found a job in Copenhagen, Denmark. 84 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 3: The first two weeks were lonely, but when a new 85 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 3: worker started the factory, everything changed. Her name was Barbara Shut. 86 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 3: She was thin and wiry, with short, dark hair and 87 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 3: big eye. She was twenty one years old and had 88 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 3: just graduated from college. She was rich. Her mother was 89 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 3: a doctor and her father a retired college professor. Because 90 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 3: her mother was a doctor, she loved dispensing medical advice, 91 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 3: whether it was asked for or not. The only advice 92 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 3: that stuck with me was how to pop a ZiT 93 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 3: with a razor blade, something she did regularly. She loved checkers, 94 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 3: and when she couldn't find a checker set in all 95 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 3: of Copenhagen, she made the board in pieces out of cardboard. 96 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 3: I hated checkers, but in the way that rich girls 97 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 3: who are doted on by their parents can be. She 98 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 3: was very persuasive. Barbara always knew what she wanted, so 99 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 3: we played checkers. She bought a bike as soon as 100 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,799 Speaker 3: she arrived and rode all over Copenhagen. She only managed 101 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 3: to persuade me to ride with her once, though I 102 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 3: was terrified of the traffic. We spent a lovely Saturday 103 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 3: biking all over the city until the bike she had 104 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 3: borrowed for me gave out. For eight hours each weekday, 105 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 3: we were at the same table folding bath powels. It 106 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 3: was a boring, mind numbing job, but I loved it 107 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 3: because we had so much fun. We had silly nicknames 108 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 3: for all the other workers. We sang to the pop 109 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 3: music coming over the loudspeaker. We laughed our way through 110 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 3: each day. As the time in Copenhagen was coming to 111 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 3: an end, we were excitedly planning our next adventure. Barbara, 112 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 3: who loved horses more than anything in the world, was 113 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 3: going to a fancy riding cap in England. I left first, 114 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 3: riding the train across Italy, Austria, Switzerland. I missed the laughter, 115 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 3: the singing along to Winchester Cathedral a dozen times a day, 116 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:43,359 Speaker 3: our endless checker games. She was my best friend. But 117 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 3: it wasn't forever. 118 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: That's lovely, Becky. It wasn't forever, Becky says, because at 119 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 1: the end of the summer, in spite of their closeness, we. 120 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 3: Never exchanged any information, anything, phone numbers or anything. 121 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: Why do you think that was? 122 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 3: I think it was because we we didn't. Our lives 123 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 3: seemed so different. 124 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: Becky was from Waconia, Minnesota, population two thousand. Barbara was 125 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: from Cincinnati. Her parents were professionals. They had four cars, 126 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: five TVs, a horse. But Becky wasn't envious of Barbara's 127 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: material possessions. What she did envy, though, was Barbara's close 128 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: relationship with her dad. Becky had lost her own father 129 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: a few years earlier. 130 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 3: She was very close to her father. She talked about 131 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 3: him a lot. She just was so in love with 132 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 3: her father, and he wrote her these long, beautiful letters 133 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 3: every single day. 134 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: When Becky left for Copenhagen, she was still feeling grief 135 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: over her father's death. For Becky, those letters had to 136 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: have seemed every bit as magical as Tivoli guard lit 137 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: up at night. 138 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 3: So I was writing about her, and I thought, you know, 139 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 3: in all these years, I've never tried to find out 140 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 3: what happened to her, and so I googled her and 141 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 3: I found her immediately. It's easy to find people who are. 142 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: Dead, and she is dead, which brings us to the mystery. 143 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: Becky stumbled upon. 144 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 3: She died in twenty twelve at age sixty seven, and 145 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 3: I read the obituary and I thought, wait a minute. 146 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: Becky's sadness over the death of her long lost friend 147 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: was suddenly overshadowed by another feeling confusion. The more Becky read, 148 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,959 Speaker 1: the more the obituary seemed to contradict everything Barbara had 149 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: told her that summer. There was no mention of growing 150 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: up in Cincinnati, no mention of her doctor mother, and 151 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: most of. 152 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 3: All, there is no mention of a father whatsoever. You know, 153 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 3: it had the people that preceded her in death no father, 154 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 3: the people who survived her no father, And there is 155 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 3: no mention of a father. And that is what she 156 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 3: talked about constantly. She was and I'm reading this to 157 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 3: you now from the obituary. She was raised at the 158 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:27,679 Speaker 3: Galileean Children's Home near Corbyn Kentucky, where she also attended 159 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 3: primary school and had numerous friends. Does that sound too 160 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 3: like she was raised there? I mean it says raised. 161 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 3: Does that mean orphanage? To me, it sounded like orphanage. 162 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 3: So it doesn't sound like anything I knew about her. 163 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 3: My thought was, wait what? I was kind of stunned 164 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 3: when I read this. The details were so different from 165 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 3: what I would have expected. Then I started thinking, well, 166 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 3: I'm stupid. Why didn't I figure out if she was 167 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 3: so rich, why was she working this menial job she 168 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 3: could have probably afforded to. Yeah, yeah, I think that 169 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 3: what she had told me was mostly fiction. I don't 170 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 3: know how I should think about it. Yeah, was she 171 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 3: just playing me for a stap? I mean, why if 172 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 3: that's it, it's a cruel thing to do. 173 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: If you were able to find somebody who is still 174 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: around who can speak about her and tell you about her, like, 175 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 1: what would you want to know? 176 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I want to know the truth. 177 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 3: You know, what was her life? If it wasn't what 178 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 3: she was telling me it was, what was it and 179 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 3: why was she telling me the things that she was 180 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 3: I don't know. 181 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: At the bottom of the online obituary is a comments 182 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: section where several people have posted short notes about Barbara. 183 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: Becky figures there must be someone among them who knows 184 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: the truth. If only some brave soul would reach out 185 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: and ask, some brave soul other than Becky. 186 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 3: I would never, in a million years do it, Jonathan, 187 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 3: how well do you know me? 188 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: Becky doesn't like to make a scene, and if there 189 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 1: is a scene, that's when she reaches for the fruit 190 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: salad I want. 191 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 3: But okay, else to get it? 192 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: Sure? Sure shirt? You know if at any points you're 193 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: made uncomfortable and need to hide behind my skirts, I'm 194 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 1: very happy to supply the skirts. 195 00:11:48,240 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I need skirts. 196 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: A biography is a book that someone else has written 197 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 1: about another person. Yes, if an obituary is a kind 198 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: of biography, then an online obituary is a collaborative one. 199 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 1: People leave comments that exist as windows onto a life. 200 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: But the comments on Barbara's obituary page contain no stories 201 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: or anecdotes, nothing to shed light on who she really was. 202 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: There is one comment, though, that feels like a lead. 203 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: It's from a guy who would have known Barbara around 204 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: the same time Becky did. He says they were good 205 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: friends from college. His name is Chris. I have questions 206 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: for Chris, so I send him an email telling him 207 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: about Becky inter connection to Barbara. But after about a 208 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: week without any response, I dial a telephone number I 209 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: find online. Someone picks up on the fourth ring, and 210 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: what ensues is one of the stranger conversations I've ever had. 211 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: Is this Chris? I ask yes? Chris says, I sent 212 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: you an email last week? Do I have the right person? Yes? 213 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: He says, I got your name from Barbara's obituary page. 214 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:23,199 Speaker 1: I say yes. He says, Chris isn't what you'd call chatty. 215 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: When I ask a question, he replies with only yes 216 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,359 Speaker 1: or no. When I ask if he can elaborate, he bristles. 217 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: I won't give you things, he says, but I will 218 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: verify what things are true or not true. There's a 219 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 1: deep throat quality to the interview. For whatever reason, Chris 220 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: has cast me as the intrepid journalist, himself the shadowy source. 221 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: In fact, when I ask Chris if I can record 222 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 1: him for broadcast, he brings up Watergate and threatens legal action. 223 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: But in spite of that, there were moments when Chris 224 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: seems eager to talk, like this is the call he's 225 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 1: been waiting, eating by the phone four for fifty years. 226 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 1: In the end, Chris and I talk for over an 227 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: hour and a half during that time, and almost in 228 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: spite of himself, he reveals details about Barbara's life that 229 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: are precise and top of mind like. At one point, 230 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: in response to a question about Barbara's childhood, Chris points 231 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: me to a nineteen forty's issue of The Saturday Evening Post. 232 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: It features an article about the Galileian Children's Home. The 233 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: Galilean Children's Home, he says, is the orphanage in Kentucky 234 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: where Barbara was raised. So it seems the obituary was right. 235 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: Contrary to what Barbara told Becky and Copenhagen, she was 236 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: actually an orphan. She had no fancy home, no doting father. 237 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: I'm not looking forward to telling my mother in law 238 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: that her friend Barbara lied to her. But then Chris 239 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: tell me something else. At the age of seventeen, Barbara 240 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: was adopted by a couple named Charles and Jane Shutt. 241 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: The Shots were wealthy, They lived in Cincinnati and had 242 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: a horse. Her adopted mother was a doctor, and her 243 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: adopted father, who Chris tells me Barbara was very close 244 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: with was a college dean. Those were the parents that 245 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: Barbara always talked about in Copenhagen, her adopted parents. So 246 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: while the story from the obituary is true, the story 247 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: Barbara told Becky is also true. I asked Chris if 248 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: he knows why Barbara's adopted family wasn't mentioned in her obituary, 249 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: not that I would talk about. Chris says, would you 250 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: say that Barbara's life after the adoption was a happy one? 251 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: I ask until she graduated from college, Chris says, And 252 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: what happened around graduation? I ask that I won't discuss. 253 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: Chris says, I feel like he's baiting me, but I've 254 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: no idea why or for what. Whenever any of this 255 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: stuff happens, Chris continues, you have to ask yourself what's 256 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: in the public domain and what isn't. You could look 257 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: up legal information about Barbara, he says. He pauses, Well, 258 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: this part I can tell you because it's in the 259 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: public domain. In May of nineteen sixty nine, Chris says, 260 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: Barbara killed her mother. For a few moments, we sit 261 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: in silence, Chris waiting for me to react, Me not 262 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: knowing how to her adopted mother. I finally ask that 263 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: is correct. Chris says, how is the murder committed? I ask, gunn. 264 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: Chris says, do you know the circumstances? I ask, And 265 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: this next part, Chris says like he's proud. I knew 266 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: some of the details that the police never knew. 267 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 4: Oh my god. 268 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 1: After hanging up with Chris, I try to unpack what 269 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: I just heard with my producer Stevie. Oh my I can't. Yeah. 270 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, I was not expecting that, Like, it just froze me. Yeah, 271 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 5: I don't know that I even want to share that 272 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 5: with Becky. I have to admit that when my mother 273 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 5: in law tasked me with looking into Barbara's obituary, I 274 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 5: assumed I discover the story of a fabulous someone from 275 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 5: humble origins who thought Europe a good place to reinvent herself, 276 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 5: if only for a summer. I never thought murder would 277 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 5: be an my report, and now that it is, a 278 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 5: part of me feels protective of Becky. Her summer with 279 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,919 Speaker 5: Barbara is a memory she cherishes. I don't want to 280 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 5: compromise that. But at the same time, I know Becky 281 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 5: is someone who flips to the end of novels because 282 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 5: she just can't wait to know what happens. She's curious, 283 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 5: and so am I. So I start digging. Over the 284 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 5: next several days, I'm buried in news clippings with headlines 285 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 5: like this woman doctor found slain in her office home. 286 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 5: At the time, the trial of. 287 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: Barbara shut for the murder of her adopted mother Jane 288 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: dominated Cincinnati headlines. And just a quick warning, some of 289 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: the details I'm about to share are disturbing. The newspapers 290 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: describe the murder in gruesome, nearly pornographic detail. Her almost 291 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 1: nude body was found lying face down, says one article, 292 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: a full blown blood path says another. As well as 293 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: being shot, Jane was also beaten with a fireplace poker, 294 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 1: struck seventeen times in total. Just a few days ago, 295 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: I'd thought of Barbara as my mother in law's European 296 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: summer friend, with whom she gossiped and rode bikes. Now 297 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: I was reading about her violently beating her mother to death. 298 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 1: It's like their two different women. In the photos I've 299 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 1: seen of her, Barbara is striking, and the papers couldn't 300 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 1: get enough of the mysterious twenty three year old who's 301 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 1: referred to as Slender olive skinned, elfin faced, pixie faced, 302 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 1: and gammon faced. One headline, rather than referring to the 303 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 1: trial as a murder trial, refers to it as a 304 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 1: waifs trial. The newspapers carry descriptions of Barbara's hairstyle and clothes. 305 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: On her first day in court, The Cincinnati Inquirer calls 306 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 1: her dress quote fashionably short, but not mini mini. It's 307 00:19:55,440 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 1: almost like Barbara is a movie star. From the papers, 308 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: I learned that Barbara had initially confessed to the police, 309 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: but recanted her confession a few days later. Why would 310 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: someone admit to a crime only to take it back immediately? 311 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: To find out, I contact the Hamilton County Court in 312 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: Ohio and request the trial transcript. What I receive is 313 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: a document over twelve hundred typewritten pages long. From it, 314 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: I learned that the prosecution's case was mostly built on 315 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: Barbara's confession, which told the following story. On the morning 316 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 1: of May twenty fifth, nineteen sixty nine, Jane told her 317 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,679 Speaker 1: that she and Barbara's adopted father, Charles, were separating and 318 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: it was time for Barbara to go out on her own. 319 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 1: An argument ensued. Barbara grabbed a gun from her father's 320 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: dresser and shot Jane. She then dragged her down two 321 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: flights of stairs to the basement, where she beat her 322 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,360 Speaker 1: to death with the poker. If she was alive, Barbara 323 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: explained in her confession, she was going to tell everybody 324 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: and I was going to be in a jam. The 325 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: defense's case, on the other hand, was built around the 326 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: fact Barbara later recanted her confession. Barbara maintained her innocence 327 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: throughout the trial, claiming the confession was given under false pretenses. 328 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: According to her lawyers, Barbara was horseback riding that morning 329 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: and came home to find Jane dead at the bottom 330 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: of the basement stairs. I was thinking that Daddy had 331 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: done it, Barbara testified on the stand. She feared Charles 332 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: had committed the murder, and so she confessed in order 333 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 1: to protect him. I was going to do anything that 334 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: I possibly could to take the guilt off him. Barbara 335 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 1: said anything. This meant cleaning up the crime scene and 336 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: disposing of the gun in the Ohio River. It wasn't 337 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: until later that she learned her father was innocent. During 338 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: the investigation, police found blood on Barbara's riding boots and 339 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,719 Speaker 1: gunpowder as a jew on her hands. Also Barbara had 340 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: no defensible alibi. She was found guilty and sentenced to 341 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 1: life in prison for murder in the first degree. 342 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 2: I hope my voice is okay. You know, we're very 343 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 2: froggy around here because the allergies. I'll sound like Demi Moore. 344 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 1: Late one Friday evening, my mother in law, Becky, and 345 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: I meet up in here Den. I've been looking into 346 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: Barbara's life, and I'll just get in front of it 347 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: by saying that some of it is shocking. Really, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 348 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: The interesting thing is in the end, I think generally 349 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,199 Speaker 1: the things that she told you are true. And I 350 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: begin with the information Becky had asked for. I tell 351 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: her that Barbara had not played her for a sab 352 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,199 Speaker 1: so she grew up an orphan. She was adopted by 353 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,199 Speaker 1: a wealthy family three months. But then I tell her 354 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: the other stuff I learned. In May of nineteen sixty nine, 355 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 1: Barbara murdered her adopted mother, Jane. 356 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 4: Yeah really, yeah, yeah, oh my god. 357 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. 358 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 2: I last saw her in August of sixty eight, so 359 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 2: this was, you know, nine months later. 360 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. Becky says that in Copenhagen she never saw any 361 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: evidence of violence or temper. 362 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 2: Boy, I never saw that would have been in her 363 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 2: I can't wrap my head around it. I don't know 364 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 2: what to think of it. What should I think about that? 365 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 2: I thought she was a really nice person. We had 366 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 2: so much fun together. 367 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: In fact, the time Barbara and Becky shared in Copenhagen 368 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 1: came up in the court transcript. Barbara's lawyer asked her 369 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: about her trip to Denmark and the work she did 370 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: at the laundromat. Reading it, I half expected my mother 371 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 1: in law's name to appear, but Barbara doesn't mention Becky. 372 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: But while Becky's name doesn't make an appearance, another familiar 373 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: name does, someone I'd spoken to just weeks earlier, Barbara's 374 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: old college friend, Chris Chris, who wouldn't let me record 375 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:34,160 Speaker 1: our call. A week into Barbara's trial, Chris is called 376 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: to the stand for questioning. Were you in the vicinity 377 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: of one twenty two Glenn Mary in Cincinnati? The defense asks, 378 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: on the morning of May twenty fifth, nineteen sixty nine, 379 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: I respectfully declined to answer that question, Chris responds, taking 380 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: the fifth. Did you kill doctor Jane Shott? They ask again? 381 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 1: Chris takes the fifth. Chris and I spoke for an 382 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: hour and a half, and at no point did he 383 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: ever say anything about being questioned as a suspect. What 384 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: the hell was going on? Was this why Chris had 385 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: been so cagy with me? Was this connected to what 386 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 1: he knew that the police never knew? Becky wonders too, 387 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: What does Chris have to do with all of this? 388 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 2: What did he have to say that he didn't feel 389 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 2: he could say because it would be incriminating. Why did 390 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 2: he do that? Does he know something that nobody else knows? 391 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 4: I respectfully declined to answer that question, for the answer 392 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 4: that question might incriminate me in this jurisdiction or any 393 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 4: other jurisdiction in the United States. 394 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: This is Chris reciting the Fifth Amendment for me, now, 395 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 1: fifty two years later, I remember it today. A month 396 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 1: after our first conversation, I received an email from Chris 397 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: that I didn't know what to make of. In it, 398 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: he told me he now wanted to talk to me, 399 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 1: and if that wasn't surprising enough, he also said I 400 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 1: could record the conversation. I think maybe we could achieve more, 401 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: he wrote, if you're still interested, Hey, Chris, I'm. 402 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 4: Glad we finally made contact. 403 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, I asked Chris My burning question, 404 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: why did he take the stand? 405 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,719 Speaker 4: It was to protect Barbara, and it was suggested to 406 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 4: me by Bernard Gilday Junior, who was her attorney. Gil 407 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 4: Day said they needed another suspect. It didn't have to 408 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 4: be somebody who actually did. 409 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 1: The effect Barbara's lawyers were looking to achieve was exactly 410 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: the one it had on me. Chris pleading the fifth 411 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: raised suspicion with all the evidence against Barbara, Gilday was 412 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 1: just hoping to cast a shadow of doubt. So her lawyer, 413 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: Gilday was just looking to sort of to muddy things somehow. 414 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, and have a second suspect. 415 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: But why would Chris, Barbara's college friend, implicate himself in 416 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: a murder trial. It turns out that while they were 417 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 1: friends in college, they weren't just friends. 418 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 4: We were engaged. She sat right in front of me 419 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 4: in the German class in the summer of sixty seven, 420 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 4: and one time I made a joke or something and 421 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 4: she turned around and smiled at me, and that's when 422 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 4: I started talking to her. That was the beginning, and 423 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 4: it went pretty quickly. 424 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,880 Speaker 1: The end came pretty quickly too. Chris was going away 425 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: to California for graduate school, and the relationship would be 426 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,679 Speaker 1: long distance. They began to picker. The enormity of the 427 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: commitment started getting to them, so just a few months 428 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: after they were engaged, and well before Jane's murder, they 429 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: called it off. But Chris's feelings for Barbara endured. It 430 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: was something her lawyers took advantage of when they asked 431 00:27:58,640 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: him to testify. 432 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 4: It's just a strange thing, what you'll do to help someone. 433 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: It was a desperate, if not legally questionable move, but 434 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,640 Speaker 1: the defense didn't have much Chris was never taken seriously 435 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 1: as a suspect. In fact, the judge ended up telling 436 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 1: the jury to disregard his testimony altogether, claiming it had 437 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: no real bearing on the case. And today, if you 438 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 1: ask Chris if he thinks Barbara was guilty, he's unequivocal. 439 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: This is the part he learned later that the police 440 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: never knew. 441 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,199 Speaker 4: She had purchased a gun in Richmond, Kentucky, and she 442 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 4: went over to some woods and she practiced with a gun, 443 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 4: so she knew she was going to use it because 444 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 4: she practiced with it. 445 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: I'm unable to verify if Barbara bought the gun, but 446 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: it is true that when her adopted father, Charles, took 447 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: the stand during the trial. He testified that he'd never 448 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: owned a gun or kept one in the dresser where 449 00:28:55,600 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: Barbara claimed to have found it. After the trial, Barbara 450 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: was sent to a women's prison in Marysville, Ohio to 451 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: serve her sentence, and Chris says he visited a few times, 452 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: but most of their contact was by mail. He kept 453 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: Barbara's letters and sends me a photo of one. It's 454 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: written on prison stationery, and most of it is pretty mundane. 455 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: But what strikes me is how Barbara records the date 456 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: rather than the day, month, and year. She instead writes 457 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: Mother's Day. Chris also tells me that Barbara was given 458 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: a wide berth at Marysville. 459 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 4: She was favored by Miss Wheeler, the superintendent. For example, 460 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 4: Miss Wheeler loved Ohio state football, and she would invite 461 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 4: Barbara only of all the prisoners to come over and 462 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 4: watch the game. No other prisoner could go into Miss 463 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 4: Wheeler's house. 464 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: In that he sees Barbara's special talent for manipulation. In prison, 465 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: Chris says Barbara was somehow allowed to keep a camera 466 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: and even a small dog, and she was paroled after 467 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: fifteen years, five years earlier than the minimum stipulated by 468 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: her sentence. It's all part of a bigger pattern, he says, 469 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: like how his parents put up half the money for 470 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: Barbara's bail. 471 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 4: She used people. Okay, she could get me to do things. 472 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 4: I drove her weekly to her horse riding lessons, I 473 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 4: bought her presence, I started smoking with her. She had 474 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 4: this feeling of entitlement. I think I would say that 475 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 4: was part of her character. 476 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 3: Hmm. 477 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 4: She wanted to get her away. 478 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: My mind returns to what Becky said about being with 479 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: Barbara and Copenhagen, the checkers game she was forced to play, 480 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: the bike ride she had to take. In nineteen seventy two, 481 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 1: Chris got married and he and Barbara fell out of touch. 482 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty four, Barbara moved to Columbus, Ohio after 483 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: being paroled. Then in nineteen ninety one, Chris's marriage ended. 484 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: He didn't wait long before reaching back out to Barbara 485 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: and beginning a correspondence, why do you think you reached 486 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: out to her after all those years apart? 487 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 4: Curious and I still had strong feelings for her. 488 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: Talking to Chris on the phone fifty years later, it 489 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 1: still feels like Barbara exerts a strange force. Chris tells 490 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: me about this one day in nineteen ninety one, when 491 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: he was passing through Columbus on his way to visit 492 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: family in Cleveland. The way Chris describes it, it almost sounds 493 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: like his car started driving itself. 494 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 4: I had my daughter with me, and Barbara had sent 495 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 4: me a picture of her, a little Toyota or Mazda 496 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 4: whatever she had, with a flower on the antenna. And 497 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 4: I remember stopping and looking at the house and telling 498 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 4: my daughter, who was maybe thirteen at the time, I said, 499 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 4: that's Barbara's car, and this is where she's living, and 500 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 4: I'll never forget. My daughter said to me, Daddy, are 501 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 4: you going to go in and see her? And I said, no, 502 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 4: I just want to know that she's okay. 503 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: Hearing the story, I can't help but wonder if the 504 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: real reason Chris changed his mind about speaking with me 505 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: was simply because he longed for someone with whom to 506 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 1: share Barbara stories. When I asked Chris if, in the 507 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: years after Barbara committed the murder, he'd never heard her 508 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: express remorse, Chris says no, But then he tells me 509 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,959 Speaker 1: one more story from Barbara's life after prison. 510 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 4: She was cutting the grass, wet grass, and wet grass 511 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 4: sticks to the bottom of where the blade is and 512 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 4: you have to clean it out. So she stopped the engine, 513 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 4: but she didn't disconnect the wire to the sparks blog, 514 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 4: and she moved the blade to get all the grass out, 515 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 4: and the motor started and so two of her fingers 516 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 4: were cut off. And later, at some point she said 517 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:22,239 Speaker 4: she thought it was punishment for killing her mother. She 518 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 4: didn't say it as bluntly as that, but that's what 519 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,479 Speaker 4: she was saying. 520 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 2: What started this all was the obituary. Yeah, And although 521 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 2: everything in it was accurate, it sure didn't tell the 522 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 2: whole story. 523 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: Which is what Becky wonders about now, the whole story, 524 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: because while the evidence against Barbara is overwhelming, neither Becky 525 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: nor I are convinced by the motive the prosecution presented. 526 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,080 Speaker 1: Why would be told to move out cause the three 527 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: year old college graduate to fly into a murderous rage. Plus, 528 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: if Chris is to be believed, Barbara had been planning 529 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:12,800 Speaker 1: the murder for months, what was her motivation before Becky 530 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: met her in Copenhagen, before Charles and Jane adopted her 531 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: Barbara Shutt was a girl named Barbara Wilson. Barbara Wilson 532 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: was born in Kentucky, raised in an orphanage. Who was 533 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,759 Speaker 1: this girl the shots ushered into their home at the 534 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 1: age of seventeen? And why did you kill Jane? 535 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 2: There's so many questions I still have, so maybe some 536 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 2: of those questions you'll find answers to. 537 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: On the next episode of Heavyweight. 538 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 3: When you want to solve the murder, you discover the 539 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 3: secrets that spawned it. 540 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: I set out to unlock some secrets. 541 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 2: The story we got was that she had no family, 542 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 2: and it wasn't even true. 543 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: What's this place called Galilee's Children's Home? Galilean Children's Home? 544 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: I searched for the Kentucky orphanage where Barbara was raised. 545 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 5: There's a kid's size book right there. 546 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 1: And the kids now grown who were raised there with her. 547 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:03,879 Speaker 3: I try to forget the bad ones. 548 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 1: There were bad ones. 549 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 4: Well, from the outside it look like candy and cookies. 550 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: What was going on in the inside was far from that. 551 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: Part two is out now. It's available only on Spotify. 552 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,319 Speaker 1: Go there right now and search Heavyweight to listen to 553 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: the conclusion. This episode of Heavyweight was produced by Stevie Lane, 554 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: along with Me, Jonathan Goldstein, and Moheey mcgauker. Our senior 555 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: producer is Khaleila Holt. Special thanks to Emily Condon, Alex Bloomberg, 556 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,320 Speaker 1: Brendan Klinkenberg, Mitch Hansen, Fia Ben and Justin mcgoldrich, j T. Townsend, 557 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 1: Rachel Strom, Mark Bartlett, Jason Alexander at the Hamilton County 558 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 1: Clerk of Courts, and Jackie Cohen. Bobby Lord mixed the 559 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: episode with original music by Christine Fellows, John K. Sampson, 560 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,799 Speaker 1: Blue Dot Session and Bobby Lord. Additional music credits can 561 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: be found on our website, Gimletmedia dot com slash Heavyweight. 562 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: Our theme song is by The Weaker Thans courtesy of 563 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,720 Speaker 1: Epitaph Records. Follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight. We're always 564 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 1: looking for new stories, so email us at Heavyweight at 565 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: gimletmedia dot com. Part two of this episode is available 566 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: right now only on Spotify. We'll be back with new 567 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,280 Speaker 1: episodes after Thanksgiving, exclusively on Spotify