Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's me James today and I'm joined by
Speaker 1: Hulia Messner from Seawatch. She's one of the spokespeople for
Speaker 1: sea Watch, your organization at Rescuesditerranean rescuse migrants in the Mediterranean.
Speaker 2: Hud Hi, good morning, welcome.
Speaker 3: Hi, thank you so much for your invitation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not good money for you.
Speaker 1: I guess could you start off by explaining to us
Speaker 1: perhaps what Seawatch does and why there's a need for
Speaker 1: it to do that as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course. So Seawatch is a civility and search
Speaker 3: and rescue organization, So we are trying to save people
Speaker 3: from distress at sea, in the Mediterranean Sea. So you
Speaker 3: can imagine the situation being very cruel at the European
Speaker 3: external borders right now. So far more than two two
Speaker 3: hundred people drowned only this year while trying to flee
Speaker 3: to the European Union and the area we cover, people
Speaker 3: are mostly fleeing from Tunisia and Libya for example, to Italy,
Speaker 3: but also trying to reach Malta for example. So what
Speaker 3: we are trying to do is actually really rescuing bar
Speaker 3: with ships. So currently we have two ships. One is
Speaker 3: prepared at the moment for its first operation and the
Speaker 3: second one had just had rescue on the weekend and
Speaker 3: is now currently blocked initially. And on the other side,
Speaker 3: we also have monitoring airplanes surveying the area and trying
Speaker 3: to monitor the human rights situation over the Mediterranean, and
Speaker 3: trying to monitor firstly state violence but also secondly trying
Speaker 3: to give information when the airplanes are finding boats and
Speaker 3: stress then for people being rescued.
Speaker 1: Okay, so there's a lot there. I think that we
Speaker 1: should probably break down for people. And the first thing
Speaker 1: I think is you said that one of your boats
Speaker 1: is blocked.
Speaker 2: Now, yes, maybe people won't.
Speaker 1: Be familiar with the way that certain European countries have
Speaker 1: reacted to the migration coming across the Mediterranean, So can
Speaker 1: you explain what blocking constitute.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So in Europe, like since a few years, in
Speaker 3: several years, we also see an increase in ultra right
Speaker 3: wing movements and also ultra right governments. So what is
Speaker 3: happening now, especially in Italy where we are operating from,
Speaker 3: is that we have a ultra right wing government under
Speaker 3: the President Georgia Miloney installed and the government is currently
Speaker 3: trying to hinder civility rescue because it's a way to
Speaker 3: actually hinder and also block migration. So in the beginning
Speaker 3: of the year, for example, there was a decree put
Speaker 3: in place that really makes it so much harder for
Speaker 3: us to operate. And at the moment after our rescue
Speaker 3: on the weekend, we are blocked for twenty days, meaning
Speaker 3: that we cannot go out and do our usual work
Speaker 3: in the Mediterranean, but our ship has to stay import
Speaker 3: because Italian authorities are claiming that we violated the decree,
Speaker 3: which is actually going against international law.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I think when you say that they're trying to
Speaker 1: hinder migration in the Mediterranean, that's quite a nice way
Speaker 1: of saying, I guess, because what this means is that
Speaker 1: they are making that migration even more dangerous than it
Speaker 1: already is by not allowing people to be rescued. Right,
Speaker 1: and as you said, it's already incredibly dangerous, and the more.
Speaker 3: Correct the Mediterranean Sea is a graveyard. Like as I said,
Speaker 3: more than twenty two hundred people died this year only crossing,
Speaker 3: and thousands of people died since twenty and fourteen. Like
Speaker 3: numbers can be seen like with the IUMS or the
Speaker 3: International Organization of Migration for example, that I'm monitoring. Also
Speaker 3: the situation in the central and from Mediterranean and what
Speaker 3: this place or this external border actually constitute constitutes is
Speaker 3: a crime scene, a crime scene again for crimes against
Speaker 3: humanity because state states are like purposefully, really intentionally letting
Speaker 3: people drown.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, it's tragic, it's really horrible.
Speaker 1: Can you explain a little bit about like the way
Speaker 1: that I guess just the mechanics of people crossing the
Speaker 1: vessels they use, where they like the journey, people have
Speaker 1: seen the Mediterranean at all, like depending on where they live.
Speaker 1: Obviously they might live on the med but if they
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe they've seen beaches and beach holidays in
Speaker 1: Spain or something. And obviously that's that's not all of it.
Speaker 1: So can you explain a little bit about the conditions
Speaker 1: of the crossing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so people are all people that we rescue mostly
Speaker 3: are trying to flee from Tunisia as well as Libya.
Speaker 3: So the situation in Libya, for example, is really horrible.
Speaker 3: It's very violent. There's a lot of documentation of torture camps,
Speaker 3: of rape, of murder, of a slave trade, and people
Speaker 3: that comes come from the sub Sahuaran region and are
Speaker 3: trying to flee to the European Union, are crossing Libya,
Speaker 3: for example, but also in Tunia. At the situation at
Speaker 3: the moment is very dire. Is it's very racist. There's
Speaker 3: like racist a violent campaign started by the Tunisian president
Speaker 3: in the beginning of the year especially, so we see
Speaker 3: a lot of institutional racism. We see a lot of
Speaker 3: racism and also a lot of violence on the streets.
Speaker 3: So people are really trying to flee from the country,
Speaker 3: and people are using all means possible, of course, because
Speaker 3: they have to. There's no easy way to come to Europe.
Speaker 3: Then people fleeing cannot just take a train or an
Speaker 3: airplane actually and then like trying to reach shores of
Speaker 3: the European Union, of a boat is they are only mean,
Speaker 3: so they're really forced to do that. And boats that
Speaker 3: are used are for example inflatable boats, but also metal boats.
Speaker 3: And these metal boats especially are very very dangerous because
Speaker 3: they are only constructed really not in good conditions, so
Speaker 3: they're really easy to sink. So as soon as water
Speaker 3: comes in, these boats are actually thinking. So people are
Speaker 3: also mostly not wearing life wests, so it's really dangerous.
Speaker 3: Like the number of people on the boat is way
Speaker 3: too high for their capacities. So most boats as soon
Speaker 3: as they go on to see they are actually in
Speaker 3: the stress and they are in need of rescue.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, and then let's talk about some of the
Speaker 1: rescues that see what has been able to do, because
Speaker 1: some of them have resulted in the really big numbers
Speaker 1: of people you've been able to save. Right, I think
Speaker 1: there was one in twenty seventeen, which is fifty something people,
Speaker 1: Is that right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean could very well be seventeen. I didn't
Speaker 3: work with sewers, so I don't know which rescue me
Speaker 3: you mean exactly. But for example, just now on the weekend,
Speaker 3: we rescued seventy two people actually out of distress at
Speaker 3: sea with our ship Aurora.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's talk about like what that rescue looks like.
Speaker 1: I guess what happens is maybe they the aircraft spot
Speaker 1: so the ship is in distress.
Speaker 2: Is that right? And then your ship can respond and
Speaker 2: go to them.
Speaker 3: Yeah. For example, there's also another organization it's called alarm Phone.
Speaker 3: They are like a distress hotline where people in distress
Speaker 3: at seek and call, and they are also giving them
Speaker 3: the information to all ships in the area and of
Speaker 3: course two authorities. So on the weekend our Aurora actually
Speaker 3: first supported another civil search and rescue ship from Open
Speaker 3: Arms with their rescue and then was led to this
Speaker 3: particular distress case also with the help of our monitoring
Speaker 3: flights operations which are called airborne and the people were
Speaker 3: then rescued on Friday, as said seventy two people. And
Speaker 3: then normally what you have to do is of course
Speaker 3: informed of the competent authorities in the area, so state authorities,
Speaker 3: and according to international law then state authorities have to
Speaker 3: coordinate the rescue. So we of course communicated, communicated with authorities,
Speaker 3: and authorities only after a while actually assigned us to
Speaker 3: the port of Trapani. So Trapani is in Sicily, on
Speaker 3: the island of Sicily, and it was much farther away
Speaker 3: than the nearest port, which was on the island of
Speaker 3: lamp Dous. So you have to imagine, of course, distraits
Speaker 3: and the rescue cases are very dangerous situations and people
Speaker 3: of course need immediate support and need immediate transfer to
Speaker 3: the land where medical help can like intensely happen etc.
Speaker 3: Because people might be on sea for several days, they
Speaker 3: might be in psychological but as well in physical pain
Speaker 3: and stress. They might have burns from actually a fuel
Speaker 3: and sea water mixed, for example, And of course dehydration
Speaker 3: is a very very big danger and risk for people
Speaker 3: in distress at sea. So after we rescued and after
Speaker 3: we got assigned the port of Trapany, we made very
Speaker 3: clear to the authorities that Trapani is way too far
Speaker 3: and that according to international law we need to go
Speaker 3: to a lump producer because it's the most suitable nearest pool.
Speaker 3: But then we got noticed that we are not allowed
Speaker 3: to go to lumproducer actually, and that meant that we
Speaker 3: were in total forced to stay on sea for thirty
Speaker 3: seven hours, and also for those people in distress and rescued,
Speaker 3: they were forced to stay more than twenty four hours
Speaker 3: additionally on sea, like having to really door doors, really difficult,
Speaker 3: this really difficult situation. The next day Saturday, we were
Speaker 3: still on see the sun like really burned relentlessly by
Speaker 3: that point, and people were facing dehydration. One person actually faded,
Speaker 3: and it became really increasingly dangerous the situation on board,
Speaker 3: which is why we community communicated more and more with
Speaker 3: authorities and they were then forced after a while to
Speaker 3: let us enter to lump producer because the situation was
Speaker 3: really dire and people needed to disembark, disembark on land.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a really good summation of like
Speaker 1: some of the sort of like hostility you encounter from states.
Speaker 1: Another thing that see what she's encountered, at least in
Speaker 1: the past is either negligence or like interference by state
Speaker 1: agencies at sea. I'm not sure if it's a navy
Speaker 1: or the coast guard. I think it was maybe the
Speaker 1: coast guard, the Libyan coast Guard who had interfered with
Speaker 1: a rescue And this may have been before you started
Speaker 1: to It's find it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the so called Libyan Coast Guard is Anya is
Speaker 3: an actor that is really violent, violently intercepting people that
Speaker 3: are trying to reach European shores and are also violently
Speaker 3: interfering with rescues of civil search and rescue ships. So
Speaker 3: we saw for example, shooting like shootings in the air,
Speaker 3: like in the direction of our airplanes, but also in
Speaker 3: direction of other search and rescue ships. For example, we
Speaker 3: saw intimidations, We saw violations of international law and human
Speaker 3: rights by the so called Libyan Coast Guard. Because what
Speaker 3: is happening is that the European States, the European Union
Speaker 3: is actually supporting the socoed Libyan Coast Guard to intercept
Speaker 3: people at sea, so to really block people from getting
Speaker 3: to the European Union.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it seems to be like a strategy throughout
Speaker 1: the European Union, right. It's rather than supporting people as
Speaker 1: they come, making this journey less dangerous, that they're trying
Speaker 1: everything they do to keep people in North Africa to
Speaker 1: stop them coming to Europe at all.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. We see this on a very practical
Speaker 3: level in the Mediterranean Sea. But we also see this
Speaker 3: on a political level, so with externalization policies, with deals
Speaker 3: with Tunisia, for example, just recently there has been a
Speaker 3: deal between the European Union and Tunisia with a lot
Speaker 3: of money involved to actually trying to block migration again
Speaker 3: and to increase the support for the Tunisian Coast Guard
Speaker 3: for example. But we also see a lot of political
Speaker 3: talks between Italy and Libya. Libya is also now a
Speaker 3: former colony of Italy, so there's very close ties and
Speaker 3: ties and a lot of influence. And just a couple
Speaker 3: of days ago there was the transfer of two ships
Speaker 3: from Italy to the so called Libyan Coast Guard. So
Speaker 3: they really also yeah, supporting this very violent, very dangerous
Speaker 3: actor with technical means.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And obviously, like people who listen to all our episodes
Speaker 1: will be aware, like there's increased violence in the Sahel.
Speaker 1: There's not a large shale protests in Syria this week,
Speaker 1: it's not as if the people will. There will still
Speaker 1: be dangerous situations for people to flee. And what the
Speaker 1: EU is doing is making that dangerous journey more dangerous,
Speaker 1: rather than sort of accepting that it's a thing that
Speaker 1: happens to humans and trying to make it less deadly.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, And it's like it's a very politically induced
Speaker 3: situation and we are like the European Union is supporting
Speaker 3: human rights crimes, Like with the money of the European Union,
Speaker 3: human rights crimes are actually committed. So a couple of
Speaker 3: weeks ago, we saw the quotations from Tunian authorities of
Speaker 3: people on the move to the Tunisian Libyan border, so
Speaker 3: to the desert, and people were actually left there to die. Literally.
Speaker 1: Another way that you guys encountered state level hostility is
Speaker 1: with these legal actions right that have been taken against
Speaker 1: you against Seawatch against individuals who are part of sea watching,
Speaker 1: against vessels that seawatch aren't. Can you explain some of those.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So for example, I mean the most recent one
Speaker 3: with the blockade of our ship, so it's blocked like
Speaker 3: according to state authorities because we or they claim we
Speaker 3: violated the Italian decree that I just talked about, and
Speaker 3: they actually said that we had to request a pot
Speaker 3: in Tunisia and bring people back to Tunisia, which would
Speaker 3: have been completely against international law because Tunisia cannot be
Speaker 3: considered a safe board or a safe country of origin.
Speaker 3: So now we are in the process of like waiting
Speaker 3: for the Aurora actually to be de blocked again. But
Speaker 3: also Italian authorities of course trying to criminalize person like persons.
Speaker 3: For example, in the case of Cabula Rakta, who was
Speaker 3: a captain with us in twenty nineteen and who who
Speaker 3: had to enter also the port of Lamproducer because of
Speaker 3: the very very difficult situation on board, because the ship
Speaker 3: was forced to stay several days really on the Mediterranean
Speaker 3: Sea and the situation became very dire. So there was
Speaker 3: also proceedings against her in person. So really people that
Speaker 3: are trying to show solidarity and support people on the
Speaker 3: move to claim their human right to claim asylum are
Speaker 3: criminalized on the basis of the accusations that are just
Speaker 3: completely not true. A Cabula racter, for example, was also like,
Speaker 3: all the charges against her were dismissed, there was no
Speaker 3: legal ground for them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they're harassment obviously still hinders your work, right
Speaker 1: even if the charges are dismissed, like the time that
Speaker 1: the ship can't go out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, And it also is also a means to
Speaker 3: like to to implement fear now in people's minds, because
Speaker 3: of course it is super scary to be to be
Speaker 3: accused by a state to have actually violated law and
Speaker 3: you are facing charges of years in prison and like
Speaker 3: only that fear can already do a lot. But we
Speaker 3: don't only see this in Italy. We also see this
Speaker 3: a lot in Greece, for example, a country which is
Speaker 3: also really trying to criminalize humanitarian and political or like, yeah,
Speaker 3: humanitarian workers that are standing in solidarity with people on
Speaker 3: the wolf. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so people might not be as familiar with the
Speaker 1: landscape migration, So maybe you could just explain, like where
Speaker 1: the boats are based, because you talked about Greece, so
Speaker 1: I know that that Maltese authorities are also like what
Speaker 1: cases against seawatch? Can you explain the different landscape I
Speaker 1: guess of where your boats are based and where they
Speaker 1: tend to sort of end up relocating or taking people
Speaker 1: to once they've been rescued.
Speaker 3: Well, we take people who've been who's been, who've been
Speaker 3: rescued a lot to Italy, but we're also of course
Speaker 3: trying to coordinate with Maltese authorities who author the legal
Speaker 3: responsibility to take people in that Maltese authorities or Malta
Speaker 3: the state is actually really irresponsive, so we really see
Speaker 3: as little engagement of the country as possible. We see
Speaker 3: a lot of hindering of migration. We see very special
Speaker 3: cases with Malta where Malta Maltese authorities are actually, for example,
Speaker 3: communicating to merchant vessels who are finding or who are
Speaker 3: in vicinity of distress cases that they should just hand
Speaker 3: out fuel to the boats or hand out water. So
Speaker 3: those distress cases, those boats are actually making their way
Speaker 3: to Italy on their own, so they are out of
Speaker 3: Maltese responsibility.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, so it's kind of passing the back along. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just so sad and how similar so much this
Speaker 1: is to the way the US deals with people coming
Speaker 1: across our land the border, which is often dear to
Speaker 1: say they have they've built them back to Mexico, which
Speaker 1: again is a violation of international law and it's not
Speaker 1: a safe place. And again people in the US have
Speaker 1: been criminalized for providing drinking water to people in the desert, right,
Speaker 1: and even if it doesn't work, it scares people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's like, definitely, it's not only a European
Speaker 3: kind of situation. It's the situation at borders in general,
Speaker 3: because borders are in the end an like a construct
Speaker 3: to yeah, to safeguard in like like I don't know
Speaker 3: how to say, like in the coordination marks, you're a parent.
Speaker 1: Space, yes, exactly, Yeah, and to kind of yea, I know,
Speaker 1: enforce some kind of notion who's in, who's out, and
Speaker 1: who's the other and who's the same. I wonder one
Speaker 1: thing that people will be wondering is obviously see watches
Speaker 1: a large scale operation with quite substantial assets, and people
Speaker 1: may be wondering, how you see which funded? How do
Speaker 1: you get you know, you need experienced captains, you need
Speaker 1: maybe people who experienced in rescue operations that see pilots.
Speaker 2: So where do all these people come from?
Speaker 3: Well, like they come I mean also from the general public.
Speaker 3: We have so many volunteers that are working with us.
Speaker 3: Really also we have people that are writing us and trying,
Speaker 3: like trying to support, and of course like everybody can
Speaker 3: or anyone can have a look at the website. We
Speaker 3: have job offers on the website usually as well, and
Speaker 3: like if you want to support, really have a look
Speaker 3: and also try to reach out in case of any questions.
Speaker 3: And like Seawatch and also other civil sea rescue organizations
Speaker 3: are really sustaining themselves and are financed by donations, So
Speaker 3: we are solely financed by donations and we are really
Speaker 3: like trying to keep the work up as much as
Speaker 3: much as possible. And we have lots of different opportunities
Speaker 3: as well to support not only by working with us,
Speaker 3: but also in spreading our message on social media. So
Speaker 3: that's maybe the easiest for everyone who has social media accounts.
Speaker 3: Just like search Seawatch and you'll probably find our accounts
Speaker 3: on Twitter, on Instagram, on Facebook, but also on TikTok
Speaker 3: for example. Like inform yourself, educate yourself, and share the message,
Speaker 3: talk to your families while having dinner, talk to your friends,
Speaker 3: and also support really self organized groups of people on
Speaker 3: the move. So for example, you can inform yourself by
Speaker 3: finding refugees in Libya the group or refugees in Tunisia
Speaker 3: on Twitter and they are actually talking about their situation
Speaker 3: in the country. But also like like on on miggrassion groups.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder like talking about refugees in Tunisia and
Speaker 1: Libya has sort of reminded me. Recently we discussed on
Speaker 1: an episode like the presences of Wargner Group in Africa right,
Speaker 1: specifically they've been in Libya before, they are now in
Speaker 1: the Sahel in Central Africa Republic, in different places, and
Speaker 1: how people have reacted very differently to presences of Wagner
Speaker 1: Group in Ukraine to the presences of Wagner Group in Africa.
Speaker 1: And I wonder, like, this isn't to say that people
Speaker 1: I don't want to be construed to saying that people
Speaker 1: shouldn't have solidarity with people fleeing contract conflict in Ukraine,
Speaker 1: because they should and those people have every right to
Speaker 1: a safe place too, But has there been a change
Speaker 1: in the tone or the just the material support for
Speaker 1: you guys, since the conflict in the Ukraine grew broader
Speaker 1: of the Donbatson crimera into the full scale invasion.
Speaker 3: I mean, we see like we are in a situation
Speaker 3: of like multiple crises. Now. Of course we saw the
Speaker 3: invasion of Russia in Ukraine, but we're also we're facing
Speaker 3: climate change, We're facing dire economical situations, et cetera. So
Speaker 3: also our generations went down in the in the past year, definitely,
Speaker 3: but we are still also are so lucky to have
Speaker 3: like a very strong solid solidary basis of people supporting us.
Speaker 3: So I think it's like it's kind of both a
Speaker 3: little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I always think like with respect to the solidarity,
Speaker 1: I've never really seen like every time so that there's
Speaker 1: a larger scale crisis at the southern border of the
Speaker 1: United States right like recently the United States government, very
Speaker 1: similar to what you were describing, was keeping people in
Speaker 1: the open desert and leaving them there for days without
Speaker 1: food or water, and hundreds of people mobilized to help them,
Speaker 1: people who you might not expect to be particularly radical
Speaker 1: in their politics or you know, in sort of direct
Speaker 1: action people, but they were great and everyone helped and
Speaker 1: answer result no one died. One young woman died in
Speaker 1: Texas in CBP custody, And like I always think if
Speaker 1: people could see it, then, like you were saying, they
Speaker 1: can see your videos, people, there's a very human response
Speaker 1: to never want that to happen to another human being.
Speaker 1: It's just hard when there's so much going on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and also it's I think it's completely understandable that we,
Speaker 3: like not every person can concern themselves with all the topics,
Speaker 3: all the crisis situations we're facing right now, and like
Speaker 3: no one expects that of us, but we can expect
Speaker 3: of states because it's stay of duty that like they
Speaker 3: are taking care of people actually and they are really
Speaker 3: trying to set the base for everyone to like to
Speaker 3: claim the human rights. And it states themselves that actually
Speaker 3: like wrote down those human rights because of a certain situation.
Speaker 3: So I mean, especially in Europe, we really have like
Speaker 3: we're just considering our history, is just considering the history
Speaker 3: of Germany were just like it's it's platant ignorance and
Speaker 3: also completely against any historical evidence, against any historical work
Speaker 3: we've done, what the situation now is and what we're
Speaker 3: actually doing at the external borders, like committing human rights
Speaker 3: crimes and like ignoring the situation actually like increasing the
Speaker 3: dangers for people on the move on daily basis. And
Speaker 3: I think, I mean it's not only I mean you
Speaker 3: also mentioned this before now, like it's also a situation
Speaker 3: you're facing in the US, and we really have to
Speaker 3: like build strong transnational movements and strong transnational ties to
Speaker 3: like work against state violence order violence in general.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's an excellent point that this is
Speaker 1: part of a broader kind of state violence that everyone
Speaker 1: should be opposed to, Like it hurts everyone in the end.
Speaker 1: And yeah, as both of us being European people, we've
Speaker 1: seen that like very obviously, but we know government seem
Speaker 1: to have forgotten. One thing that you mentioned that I
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about before we finished was climate change
Speaker 1: because you said, you know, we obviously like the it's
Speaker 1: very hard for someone living in Europe or North America
Speaker 1: this year to pretend that climate change isn't happening, like
Speaker 1: with soaring temperatures, hurricane in California, wildfires everywhere. Can you
Speaker 1: explain a little bit because I think one thing that
Speaker 1: people fail to connect is and maybe that's largely due
Speaker 1: to not bad reporting perhaps, but like it doesn't get
Speaker 1: mentioned in reporting when we talk about migration, we don't
Speaker 1: talk about climate change, and we talk about climate change
Speaker 1: and talk about migration. But the two go hand in hand, right,
Speaker 1: Like the people, certainly many of the people I see
Speaker 1: our southern border coming from areas most affected by climate change?
Speaker 1: Is that something that see what sees too like as
Speaker 1: parts of the world that are more marginal for people
Speaker 1: to live in get even harder to live in, those
Speaker 1: people coming being forced to leave.
Speaker 2: I guess well, let's.
Speaker 3: Look at the science now and research and like, millions
Speaker 3: and millions of people more will be possibly because of
Speaker 3: climate change in the next in the next years. We
Speaker 3: can't deny that fact. And we as European states and
Speaker 3: European societies are a big part of why this is
Speaker 3: actually happening and why climate change is increasing in the
Speaker 3: in the speed that it is increasing right now. So
Speaker 3: we have a huge responsibility to take care and like
Speaker 3: to support people actually on the move. And I mean
Speaker 3: as seawatch, we don't make any difference as of why
Speaker 3: people are fleeing, people are in distress at see people
Speaker 3: are being rescued. That's it. That's the only responsible like,
Speaker 3: that's the only perspective we have supporting people that are
Speaker 3: in distress at SEE, because if you are calling an ambulance,
Speaker 3: they also don't ask, oh, hey, why are you actually
Speaker 3: calling the ambulance, like did you? And why are you
Speaker 3: in this situation? The ambulance is just coming. And this
Speaker 3: is this should also be always the case in the Mediterranean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, or anywhere else people at SEE. So
Speaker 1: I wonder, like the last couple, I think they wanted
Speaker 1: to ask you more broad but you spoke earlier about
Speaker 1: the rise of right wing governments and movements in Europe,
Speaker 1: and when we obviously talk about the history of the
Speaker 1: right wing in Europe and we think about fascism, and
Speaker 1: I know people who listen to this podcast will be
Speaker 1: very invested in like their their history and current struggle
Speaker 1: of anti fascism. And would you say it was fair
Speaker 1: it would be fair to cast what see, what she's
Speaker 1: doing within the broader spectrum of opposing fascism or opposing
Speaker 1: I guess of nationalist state violence, right wing state violence.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, we are part of antipascious movement. We are antifascists
Speaker 3: by court, so we definitely define ourselves as antifacious activists.
Speaker 1: Yeah, nice and I wonder that I think that people
Speaker 1: want to show the solidarity you mentioned some ways. Is
Speaker 1: there anything in particular, like I know people have contacted
Speaker 1: me about volunteering for SEE which before en have directed
Speaker 1: them to your website, but when we do have a
Speaker 1: lot of listeners in Europe and they are particular things
Speaker 1: that you're looking for in volunteers. Obviously, anyone can donate
Speaker 1: and they should if they have money, but what are
Speaker 1: you as are certain qualifications you desperately need or.
Speaker 3: So I mean, we of course always looking for people
Speaker 3: that are supporting our operations in especially on sea, but
Speaker 3: also with our airplanes of course, So if you have
Speaker 3: qualifications or other qualifications that allow you to go to
Speaker 3: see and sale, or engineering qualifications for example, or medical
Speaker 3: qualifications as well. We're always looking for nurses for doctors
Speaker 3: supporting on the ships. Then please just like have a
Speaker 3: look at the website and reach out. We have a
Speaker 3: specific form as well where you can just also sign
Speaker 3: in for interest basically, and then our crewing department takes
Speaker 3: care and sees like who and like when it's actually fitting.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1: Please people can reach out and before we finish up,
Speaker 1: is there anything else that you'd like to share with
Speaker 1: people that you think we haven't got to.
Speaker 3: I think we didn't talk about frontexts for example, or.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, let's do it. Do you explain frontext to people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So FRONTICS is the European border protection agency so
Speaker 3: called actually of course GOD and Border agency and FRONTICS
Speaker 3: is also surveying and working on the Mediterranean Sea and
Speaker 3: like responsible for for border protection specifically in general, or
Speaker 3: it actually has a double mandate, so border protection on
Speaker 3: the one side, but also coast guard duties Europeans on
Speaker 3: the other side. What we criticize is of course that
Speaker 3: FRONTEXS does so called border protection and does not actually
Speaker 3: support people on the movement, people in distress. So this
Speaker 3: double mandate does not work at all. We see a
Speaker 3: lot of non coordination, a lot of a lot of
Speaker 3: non information and also a lot of violence of context.
Speaker 3: So for example, FRONTECS or there was a report from
Speaker 3: Human Rights Watch, for example, and that fontext is complicit
Speaker 3: in pullbacks by the so called Libyan Coast Guard because
Speaker 3: there is actually communication between FONTECS and the so called
Speaker 3: Libyan co GOD and the so called Libyan cost Guard.
Speaker 3: Cost Guard can then detect boats in the stress their
Speaker 3: location with this information but provided by FONTICS and bring
Speaker 3: people or force people back to Libya for example. So
Speaker 3: Fantacics is really an actor that we criticize hugely and
Speaker 3: that we actually working towards their abolishment because how the
Speaker 3: organization or the institution is working right now does not
Speaker 3: have anything to do with the legal rights of people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and people will.
Speaker 1: We spoke with Ruth Kinner, who who's a professor in
Speaker 1: love for about lifeboats in the UK, because the UK
Speaker 1: has a notionally it has a very real distinction between
Speaker 1: rescuing people at sea and doing border reinforcement and those
Speaker 1: two different things. Yeah, yeah, if people like It's also
Speaker 1: in Crop Parkins book Mutual eight, he talks about the
Speaker 1: value of like lifeboats and volunteer organs such as your own,
Speaker 1: that it's very foundational to people talk a lot about
Speaker 1: mutual aid, but this is like one of the I guess,
Speaker 1: like foundational examples of it, and so like, can you
Speaker 1: explain what a better system? And obviously I'm not asking
Speaker 1: you to like solve all the world's problems, but like
Speaker 1: would what would it? We can make relatively few changes,
Speaker 1: I guess and make this so much more humane and
Speaker 1: not have someone's little children around in the Mediterranean. So
Speaker 1: I don't know, people don't have to live next to
Speaker 1: someone who speaks a different language from them, or whatever
Speaker 1: people's fears are of migrants, can you explain what that
Speaker 1: would look like.
Speaker 3: I mean, we need freedom of movement, that's for sure.
Speaker 3: Like and this is also one of our basic demands.
Speaker 3: We need freedom of movement for everyone. We need people
Speaker 3: to have legal and safe pathways through Europe, so safe passage.
Speaker 3: We need a system that, in accordance to the needs
Speaker 3: and the wants of people, people are actually also redistributed
Speaker 3: over the European Union and like can join the family
Speaker 3: members for example, or their friends, their support systems while
Speaker 3: trying to flee violence, while trying to flee from places
Speaker 3: where they cannot live in the end, So this is
Speaker 3: really like what we are focusing on in the end
Speaker 3: to have people coming to Europe through safe passages. So
Speaker 3: and this is really what needs to be established. And
Speaker 3: of course in this current situation, as a first step,
Speaker 3: we need a European coordinated search and rescue program with
Speaker 3: the only mandate to rescue votes in distress, to rescue
Speaker 3: people in distress to actually make sure that the situation,
Speaker 3: the death trap that the Mediterranean Sea is actually constituting
Speaker 3: at the moment, stops, Like this situation has to stop immediately.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it could stop very quickly, right, the level
Speaker 1: of resources at states have available to deploy, they could
Speaker 1: make this go away very quickly.
Speaker 3: I think they could if they wouldn't be a focused
Speaker 3: on externalization and blocking people to come.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think, like, I know, when you think
Speaker 1: about that, that's a conscious choice and the results of that,
Speaker 1: it's very very sad. And I mean in the UK
Speaker 1: we seem to just talk about it openly now, like
Speaker 1: they have whole campaigns about stopping small boats. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think people need to realize that it's not boats
Speaker 1: that they're stopping. It's little children that they're consigning to
Speaker 1: risking their lives.
Speaker 3: Yeah, children, it's women, it's men, it's non binary persons,
Speaker 3: it's everyone who wants to reach safety, and everyone deserves
Speaker 3: to be rescued. Everyone deserves to be to live nor
Speaker 3: questions asked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think that's a wonderful place to end. Actually,
Speaker 1: I think it's a hard statement to disagree with. Can
Speaker 1: you what are your Twitter handles where can people find
Speaker 1: and follow seawatch Swatch group. Okay, and that's all over,
Speaker 1: that's your U r L as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so let me have a look. So I'm not
Speaker 3: saying saying anything wrong, but seewatch crew so at seawatch
Speaker 3: Crew on together and US and small is actually our
Speaker 3: German account and our international account is at seawatch underline
Speaker 3: into I n t L for international and then we
Speaker 3: also have an Italian account for all Italian speakers.
Speaker 1: Okay, perfect, Yeah, we'll make sure that we link to
Speaker 1: those two. And thank you very much for your time
Speaker 1: this afternoon, your time, morning, my time.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for the request and for talking
Speaker 3: to us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course it could happen here as a production
Speaker 2: of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
Speaker 3: cool zone media dot com, or check us out on
Speaker 3: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 3: You can find sources for It could happen here, updated
Speaker 3: monthly at cool zone Media dot com slash sources.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening