WEBVTT - Rescuing Migrants in the Mediterranean 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:12.520 Hey everyone, it's me James today and I'm joined by 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:17.520 Hulia Messner from Seawatch. She's one of the spokespeople for 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:22.720 sea Watch, your organization at Rescuesditerranean rescuse migrants in the Mediterranean. 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:25.520 Hud Hi, good morning, welcome. 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:27.920 Hi, thank you so much for your invitation. 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:29.400 Yeah, not good money for you. 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:32.680 I guess could you start off by explaining to us 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:37.599 perhaps what Seawatch does and why there's a need for 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:38.720 it to do that as well. 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:42.600 Yeah, of course. So Seawatch is a civility and search 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:45.519 and rescue organization, So we are trying to save people 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:48.920 from distress at sea, in the Mediterranean Sea. So you 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:52.400 can imagine the situation being very cruel at the European 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.920 external borders right now. So far more than two two 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:59.520 hundred people drowned only this year while trying to flee 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:04.759 to the European Union and the area we cover, people 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:08.959 are mostly fleeing from Tunisia and Libya for example, to Italy, 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:11.840 but also trying to reach Malta for example. So what 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:15.440 we are trying to do is actually really rescuing bar 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:19.560 with ships. So currently we have two ships. One is 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:23.520 prepared at the moment for its first operation and the 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:26.440 second one had just had rescue on the weekend and 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:29.319 is now currently blocked initially. And on the other side, 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:34.160 we also have monitoring airplanes surveying the area and trying 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:38.240 to monitor the human rights situation over the Mediterranean, and 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:42.960 trying to monitor firstly state violence but also secondly trying 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:46.800 to give information when the airplanes are finding boats and 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:49.720 stress then for people being rescued. 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:52.720 Okay, so there's a lot there. I think that we 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:55.800 should probably break down for people. And the first thing 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:57.400 I think is you said that one of your boats 0:01:57.440 --> 0:01:58.160 is blocked. 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:01.280 Now, yes, maybe people won't. 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:04.960 Be familiar with the way that certain European countries have 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:09.880 reacted to the migration coming across the Mediterranean, So can 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:12.679 you explain what blocking constitute. 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:18.239 Yeah, So in Europe, like since a few years, in 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:21.600 several years, we also see an increase in ultra right 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:25.440 wing movements and also ultra right governments. So what is 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:29.280 happening now, especially in Italy where we are operating from, 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:32.800 is that we have a ultra right wing government under 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:36.680 the President Georgia Miloney installed and the government is currently 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:41.200 trying to hinder civility rescue because it's a way to 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:45.080 actually hinder and also block migration. So in the beginning 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:48.399 of the year, for example, there was a decree put 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.360 in place that really makes it so much harder for 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:55.639 us to operate. And at the moment after our rescue 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:58.840 on the weekend, we are blocked for twenty days, meaning 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:01.320 that we cannot go out and do our usual work 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:04.760 in the Mediterranean, but our ship has to stay import 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:10.080 because Italian authorities are claiming that we violated the decree, 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:12.560 which is actually going against international law. 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:14.000 Yeah. 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:16.960 So I think when you say that they're trying to 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:22.880 hinder migration in the Mediterranean, that's quite a nice way 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:25.600 of saying, I guess, because what this means is that 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:28.919 they are making that migration even more dangerous than it 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:31.400 already is by not allowing people to be rescued. Right, 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:35.000 and as you said, it's already incredibly dangerous, and the more. 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:41.600 Correct the Mediterranean Sea is a graveyard. Like as I said, 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:45.800 more than twenty two hundred people died this year only crossing, 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:50.920 and thousands of people died since twenty and fourteen. Like 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:54.240 numbers can be seen like with the IUMS or the 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:57.920 International Organization of Migration for example, that I'm monitoring. Also 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:01.920 the situation in the central and from Mediterranean and what 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:06.840 this place or this external border actually constitute constitutes is 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:10.760 a crime scene, a crime scene again for crimes against 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:17.880 humanity because state states are like purposefully, really intentionally letting 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:18.480 people drown. 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:22.839 Yeah, and yeah, it's tragic, it's really horrible. 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:25.880 Can you explain a little bit about like the way 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:28.279 that I guess just the mechanics of people crossing the 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:32.960 vessels they use, where they like the journey, people have 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:36.320 seen the Mediterranean at all, like depending on where they live. 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:37.880 Obviously they might live on the med but if they 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:40.720 don't know, maybe they've seen beaches and beach holidays in 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:43.240 Spain or something. And obviously that's that's not all of it. 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:45.040 So can you explain a little bit about the conditions 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:45.640 of the crossing. 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:50.000 Yeah, so people are all people that we rescue mostly 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:54.279 are trying to flee from Tunisia as well as Libya. 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:57.880 So the situation in Libya, for example, is really horrible. 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:04.560 It's very violent. There's a lot of documentation of torture camps, 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:08.840 of rape, of murder, of a slave trade, and people 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:12.440 that comes come from the sub Sahuaran region and are 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:15.919 trying to flee to the European Union, are crossing Libya, 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:19.080 for example, but also in Tunia. At the situation at 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:25.440 the moment is very dire. Is it's very racist. There's 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:31.040 like racist a violent campaign started by the Tunisian president 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:33.680 in the beginning of the year especially, so we see 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.120 a lot of institutional racism. We see a lot of 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.159 racism and also a lot of violence on the streets. 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:42.560 So people are really trying to flee from the country, 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:47.040 and people are using all means possible, of course, because 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:50.080 they have to. There's no easy way to come to Europe. 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:54.280 Then people fleeing cannot just take a train or an 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:58.960 airplane actually and then like trying to reach shores of 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.680 the European Union, of a boat is they are only mean, 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.599 so they're really forced to do that. And boats that 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:08.240 are used are for example inflatable boats, but also metal boats. 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:12.359 And these metal boats especially are very very dangerous because 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:18.440 they are only constructed really not in good conditions, so 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:22.360 they're really easy to sink. So as soon as water 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:25.560 comes in, these boats are actually thinking. So people are 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:29.560 also mostly not wearing life wests, so it's really dangerous. 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:33.440 Like the number of people on the boat is way 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:37.080 too high for their capacities. So most boats as soon 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:39.919 as they go on to see they are actually in 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:41.960 the stress and they are in need of rescue. 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:45.599 Okay, Yeah, and then let's talk about some of the 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.599 rescues that see what has been able to do, because 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:51.039 some of them have resulted in the really big numbers 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:52.720 of people you've been able to save. Right, I think 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:55.760 there was one in twenty seventeen, which is fifty something people, 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:56.440 Is that right? 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:00.960 Yeah, I mean could very well be seventeen. I didn't 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:02.800 work with sewers, so I don't know which rescue me 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:06.000 you mean exactly. But for example, just now on the weekend, 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:10.680 we rescued seventy two people actually out of distress at 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:12.600 sea with our ship Aurora. 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:15.880 Okay, so let's talk about like what that rescue looks like. 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:19.960 I guess what happens is maybe they the aircraft spot 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:21.200 so the ship is in distress. 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:24.120 Is that right? And then your ship can respond and 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:24.720 go to them. 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:30.080 Yeah. For example, there's also another organization it's called alarm Phone. 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:32.920 They are like a distress hotline where people in distress 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:35.040 at seek and call, and they are also giving them 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:38.040 the information to all ships in the area and of 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:42.520 course two authorities. So on the weekend our Aurora actually 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:46.080 first supported another civil search and rescue ship from Open 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:51.120 Arms with their rescue and then was led to this 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:55.440 particular distress case also with the help of our monitoring 0:07:55.440 --> 0:08:00.240 flights operations which are called airborne and the people were 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:04.440 then rescued on Friday, as said seventy two people. And 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.280 then normally what you have to do is of course 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:12.520 informed of the competent authorities in the area, so state authorities, 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:16.480 and according to international law then state authorities have to 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:22.680 coordinate the rescue. So we of course communicated, communicated with authorities, 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:27.120 and authorities only after a while actually assigned us to 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:30.960 the port of Trapani. So Trapani is in Sicily, on 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:34.440 the island of Sicily, and it was much farther away 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:37.240 than the nearest port, which was on the island of 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:41.800 lamp Dous. So you have to imagine, of course, distraits 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:47.840 and the rescue cases are very dangerous situations and people 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:53.360 of course need immediate support and need immediate transfer to 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:58.080 the land where medical help can like intensely happen etc. 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:01.920 Because people might be on sea for several days, they 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:06.520 might be in psychological but as well in physical pain 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:11.520 and stress. They might have burns from actually a fuel 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:16.280 and sea water mixed, for example, And of course dehydration 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.720 is a very very big danger and risk for people 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:24.120 in distress at sea. So after we rescued and after 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:26.880 we got assigned the port of Trapany, we made very 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:30.439 clear to the authorities that Trapani is way too far 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:32.920 and that according to international law we need to go 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:37.640 to a lump producer because it's the most suitable nearest pool. 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:41.320 But then we got noticed that we are not allowed 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:44.920 to go to lumproducer actually, and that meant that we 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.760 were in total forced to stay on sea for thirty 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:53.360 seven hours, and also for those people in distress and rescued, 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.480 they were forced to stay more than twenty four hours 0:09:56.640 --> 0:10:02.040 additionally on sea, like having to really door doors, really difficult, 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:06.319 this really difficult situation. The next day Saturday, we were 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:10.640 still on see the sun like really burned relentlessly by 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:15.400 that point, and people were facing dehydration. One person actually faded, 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:19.079 and it became really increasingly dangerous the situation on board, 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:24.080 which is why we community communicated more and more with 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:28.120 authorities and they were then forced after a while to 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:31.720 let us enter to lump producer because the situation was 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:35.079 really dire and people needed to disembark, disembark on land. 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:38.040 Yeah, I think that's a really good summation of like 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:41.960 some of the sort of like hostility you encounter from states. 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.880 Another thing that see what she's encountered, at least in 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:49.439 the past is either negligence or like interference by state 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:52.319 agencies at sea. I'm not sure if it's a navy 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.000 or the coast guard. I think it was maybe the 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:56.040 coast guard, the Libyan coast Guard who had interfered with 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:57.960 a rescue And this may have been before you started 0:10:58.000 --> 0:10:58.560 to It's find it. 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:02.920 Yeah, the so called Libyan Coast Guard is Anya is 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:08.080 an actor that is really violent, violently intercepting people that 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:11.720 are trying to reach European shores and are also violently 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:15.240 interfering with rescues of civil search and rescue ships. So 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:20.200 we saw for example, shooting like shootings in the air, 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:23.679 like in the direction of our airplanes, but also in 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:27.560 direction of other search and rescue ships. For example, we 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:31.800 saw intimidations, We saw violations of international law and human 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:35.560 rights by the so called Libyan Coast Guard. Because what 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:39.480 is happening is that the European States, the European Union 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:43.280 is actually supporting the socoed Libyan Coast Guard to intercept 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:47.000 people at sea, so to really block people from getting 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:48.280 to the European Union. 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:51.839 Yeah, and it seems to be like a strategy throughout 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:56.160 the European Union, right. It's rather than supporting people as 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:59.040 they come, making this journey less dangerous, that they're trying 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:02.440 everything they do to keep people in North Africa to 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:04.480 stop them coming to Europe at all. 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:07.600 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. We see this on a very practical 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.080 level in the Mediterranean Sea. But we also see this 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:15.600 on a political level, so with externalization policies, with deals 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:18.520 with Tunisia, for example, just recently there has been a 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:22.600 deal between the European Union and Tunisia with a lot 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:26.440 of money involved to actually trying to block migration again 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.760 and to increase the support for the Tunisian Coast Guard 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:33.280 for example. But we also see a lot of political 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:37.120 talks between Italy and Libya. Libya is also now a 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:40.200 former colony of Italy, so there's very close ties and 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:44.120 ties and a lot of influence. And just a couple 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:49.040 of days ago there was the transfer of two ships 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:52.400 from Italy to the so called Libyan Coast Guard. So 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:57.960 they really also yeah, supporting this very violent, very dangerous 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:00.000 actor with technical means. 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:01.520 Yeah. 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:05.160 And obviously, like people who listen to all our episodes 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:07.360 will be aware, like there's increased violence in the Sahel. 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:12.160 There's not a large shale protests in Syria this week, 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:14.719 it's not as if the people will. There will still 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:19.040 be dangerous situations for people to flee. And what the 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:22.640 EU is doing is making that dangerous journey more dangerous, 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:25.560 rather than sort of accepting that it's a thing that 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:28.160 happens to humans and trying to make it less deadly. 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:32.880 Yeah. Absolutely, And it's like it's a very politically induced 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.160 situation and we are like the European Union is supporting 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.400 human rights crimes, Like with the money of the European Union, 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:43.400 human rights crimes are actually committed. So a couple of 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:48.440 weeks ago, we saw the quotations from Tunian authorities of 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:53.040 people on the move to the Tunisian Libyan border, so 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:56.600 to the desert, and people were actually left there to die. Literally. 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:12.600 Another way that you guys encountered state level hostility is 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:15.400 with these legal actions right that have been taken against 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.679 you against Seawatch against individuals who are part of sea watching, 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:23.040 against vessels that seawatch aren't. Can you explain some of those. 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.160 Yeah, So for example, I mean the most recent one 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:30.840 with the blockade of our ship, so it's blocked like 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:36.000 according to state authorities because we or they claim we 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:42.800 violated the Italian decree that I just talked about, and 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.680 they actually said that we had to request a pot 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:50.400 in Tunisia and bring people back to Tunisia, which would 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:53.760 have been completely against international law because Tunisia cannot be 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:57.960 considered a safe board or a safe country of origin. 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:03.800 So now we are in the process of like waiting 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:07.800 for the Aurora actually to be de blocked again. But 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:14.960 also Italian authorities of course trying to criminalize person like persons. 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:18.040 For example, in the case of Cabula Rakta, who was 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:23.080 a captain with us in twenty nineteen and who who 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:25.800 had to enter also the port of Lamproducer because of 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:29.200 the very very difficult situation on board, because the ship 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:33.120 was forced to stay several days really on the Mediterranean 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.160 Sea and the situation became very dire. So there was 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:40.640 also proceedings against her in person. So really people that 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:44.600 are trying to show solidarity and support people on the 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:49.000 move to claim their human right to claim asylum are 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:53.960 criminalized on the basis of the accusations that are just 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:58.240 completely not true. A Cabula racter, for example, was also like, 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:00.840 all the charges against her were dismissed, there was no 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:02.800 legal ground for them. 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.640 Yeah, but they're harassment obviously still hinders your work, right 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:08.200 even if the charges are dismissed, like the time that 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:09.640 the ship can't go out. 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:15.440 Yeah, absolutely, And it also is also a means to 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:20.840 like to to implement fear now in people's minds, because 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:25.240 of course it is super scary to be to be 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:29.280 accused by a state to have actually violated law and 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:35.240 you are facing charges of years in prison and like 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:38.920 only that fear can already do a lot. But we 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:41.480 don't only see this in Italy. We also see this 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:46.160 a lot in Greece, for example, a country which is 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:51.040 also really trying to criminalize humanitarian and political or like, yeah, 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:54.760 humanitarian workers that are standing in solidarity with people on 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:56.080 the wolf. Yeah. 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.480 And so people might not be as familiar with the 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:02.600 landscape migration, So maybe you could just explain, like where 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:05.159 the boats are based, because you talked about Greece, so 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:09.119 I know that that Maltese authorities are also like what 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:13.480 cases against seawatch? Can you explain the different landscape I 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:15.960 guess of where your boats are based and where they 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:20.120 tend to sort of end up relocating or taking people 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:21.320 to once they've been rescued. 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:27.200 Well, we take people who've been who's been, who've been 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:31.840 rescued a lot to Italy, but we're also of course 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:36.000 trying to coordinate with Maltese authorities who author the legal 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:39.919 responsibility to take people in that Maltese authorities or Malta 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:45.520 the state is actually really irresponsive, so we really see 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:49.760 as little engagement of the country as possible. We see 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:55.240 a lot of hindering of migration. We see very special 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:59.920 cases with Malta where Malta Maltese authorities are actually, for example, 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:05.320 communicating to merchant vessels who are finding or who are 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:08.600 in vicinity of distress cases that they should just hand 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:12.160 out fuel to the boats or hand out water. So 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.600 those distress cases, those boats are actually making their way 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.159 to Italy on their own, so they are out of 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:19.920 Maltese responsibility. 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:25.160 Oh wow, yeah, so it's kind of passing the back along. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:29.919 it's just so sad and how similar so much this 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:31.840 is to the way the US deals with people coming 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:34.639 across our land the border, which is often dear to 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.000 say they have they've built them back to Mexico, which 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:39.280 again is a violation of international law and it's not 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:42.200 a safe place. And again people in the US have 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:45.080 been criminalized for providing drinking water to people in the desert, right, 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:47.800 and even if it doesn't work, it scares people. 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:51.560 Yeah, And it's like, definitely, it's not only a European 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:56.080 kind of situation. It's the situation at borders in general, 0:18:57.080 --> 0:19:01.000 because borders are in the end an like a construct 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:06.800 to yeah, to safeguard in like like I don't know 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:12.680 how to say, like in the coordination marks, you're a parent. 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:16.760 Space, yes, exactly, Yeah, and to kind of yea, I know, 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:19.439 enforce some kind of notion who's in, who's out, and 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:23.560 who's the other and who's the same. I wonder one 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:26.159 thing that people will be wondering is obviously see watches 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:32.119 a large scale operation with quite substantial assets, and people 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:35.320 may be wondering, how you see which funded? How do 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:37.960 you get you know, you need experienced captains, you need 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:43.520 maybe people who experienced in rescue operations that see pilots. 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:45.480 So where do all these people come from? 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:49.399 Well, like they come I mean also from the general public. 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:52.520 We have so many volunteers that are working with us. 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:58.200 Really also we have people that are writing us and trying, 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:01.320 like trying to support, and of course like everybody can 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:03.879 or anyone can have a look at the website. We 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:07.159 have job offers on the website usually as well, and 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:09.879 like if you want to support, really have a look 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.960 and also try to reach out in case of any questions. 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:18.040 And like Seawatch and also other civil sea rescue organizations 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:22.760 are really sustaining themselves and are financed by donations, So 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:26.480 we are solely financed by donations and we are really 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:30.240 like trying to keep the work up as much as 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:34.400 much as possible. And we have lots of different opportunities 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:37.560 as well to support not only by working with us, 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:40.479 but also in spreading our message on social media. So 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:44.359 that's maybe the easiest for everyone who has social media accounts. 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:47.640 Just like search Seawatch and you'll probably find our accounts 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:50.760 on Twitter, on Instagram, on Facebook, but also on TikTok 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:55.400 for example. Like inform yourself, educate yourself, and share the message, 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:59.520 talk to your families while having dinner, talk to your friends, 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:04.239 and also support really self organized groups of people on 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:07.080 the move. So for example, you can inform yourself by 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:11.840 finding refugees in Libya the group or refugees in Tunisia 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:15.280 on Twitter and they are actually talking about their situation 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:21.040 in the country. But also like like on on miggrassion groups. 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:25.560 Yeah, I wonder like talking about refugees in Tunisia and 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:29.560 Libya has sort of reminded me. Recently we discussed on 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:33.280 an episode like the presences of Wargner Group in Africa right, 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.320 specifically they've been in Libya before, they are now in 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:39.719 the Sahel in Central Africa Republic, in different places, and 0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:42.480 how people have reacted very differently to presences of Wagner 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:47.359 Group in Ukraine to the presences of Wagner Group in Africa. 0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:50.280 And I wonder, like, this isn't to say that people 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:51.960 I don't want to be construed to saying that people 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:55.320 shouldn't have solidarity with people fleeing contract conflict in Ukraine, 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:57.240 because they should and those people have every right to 0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:00.359 a safe place too, But has there been a change 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:04.240 in the tone or the just the material support for 0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:07.439 you guys, since the conflict in the Ukraine grew broader 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:11.240 of the Donbatson crimera into the full scale invasion. 0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:14.360 I mean, we see like we are in a situation 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:17.240 of like multiple crises. Now. Of course we saw the 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:20.919 invasion of Russia in Ukraine, but we're also we're facing 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:25.920 climate change, We're facing dire economical situations, et cetera. So 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:30.639 also our generations went down in the in the past year, definitely, 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:34.159 but we are still also are so lucky to have 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:39.840 like a very strong solid solidary basis of people supporting us. 0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:42.600 So I think it's like it's kind of both a 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:43.040 little bit. 0:22:43.520 --> 0:22:46.280 Yeah, I always think like with respect to the solidarity, 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:50.000 I've never really seen like every time so that there's 0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:52.480 a larger scale crisis at the southern border of the 0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:56.639 United States right like recently the United States government, very 0:22:56.680 --> 0:22:58.760 similar to what you were describing, was keeping people in 0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:01.440 the open desert and leaving them there for days without 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:05.399 food or water, and hundreds of people mobilized to help them, 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:07.560 people who you might not expect to be particularly radical 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:10.800 in their politics or you know, in sort of direct 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:12.879 action people, but they were great and everyone helped and 0:23:12.920 --> 0:23:15.840 answer result no one died. One young woman died in 0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:19.439 Texas in CBP custody, And like I always think if 0:23:19.480 --> 0:23:21.919 people could see it, then, like you were saying, they 0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:24.680 can see your videos, people, there's a very human response 0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:27.120 to never want that to happen to another human being. 0:23:27.160 --> 0:23:31.159 It's just hard when there's so much going on. 0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:35.800 Yeah, and also it's I think it's completely understandable that we, 0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:40.960 like not every person can concern themselves with all the topics, 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:44.960 all the crisis situations we're facing right now, and like 0:23:45.080 --> 0:23:47.720 no one expects that of us, but we can expect 0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:51.600 of states because it's stay of duty that like they 0:23:51.600 --> 0:23:54.720 are taking care of people actually and they are really 0:23:55.400 --> 0:23:58.720 trying to set the base for everyone to like to 0:23:58.800 --> 0:24:02.280 claim the human rights. And it states themselves that actually 0:24:02.359 --> 0:24:06.280 like wrote down those human rights because of a certain situation. 0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:09.560 So I mean, especially in Europe, we really have like 0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:12.879 we're just considering our history, is just considering the history 0:24:12.920 --> 0:24:16.879 of Germany were just like it's it's platant ignorance and 0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:21.600 also completely against any historical evidence, against any historical work 0:24:21.640 --> 0:24:25.200 we've done, what the situation now is and what we're 0:24:25.240 --> 0:24:28.560 actually doing at the external borders, like committing human rights 0:24:28.640 --> 0:24:32.800 crimes and like ignoring the situation actually like increasing the 0:24:32.880 --> 0:24:37.359 dangers for people on the move on daily basis. And 0:24:37.480 --> 0:24:40.119 I think, I mean it's not only I mean you 0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:42.440 also mentioned this before now, like it's also a situation 0:24:42.520 --> 0:24:45.439