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Sherrie Westin: Welcome back to she Pivots. I'm Sherrie Westin.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Welcome back to she Pivots, the podcast where women share

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Emily Tisch Sussman: bold career moves and personal turning points that changed everything.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: I'm your host, Emily Tisch Sussman. For over fifty years,

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Sesame Street has been teaching kids to grow smarter, stronger,

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Emily Tisch Sussman: and kinder, and the woman running it started in all

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Emily Tisch Sussman: places in the White House. A woman who is rising

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Emily Tisch Sussman: in the highest levels of government and media, had a

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Emily Tisch Sussman: perspective change and a pivot when she found out about

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Emily Tisch Sussman: a five month old baby girl abandoned on a river

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Emily Tisch Sussman: bridge in China. Today's guest is Sherrie Westin, President and

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Emily Tisch Sussman: CEO of Sesame Workshop, the nonprofit behind Sesame Street. Before

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Sesame Street, Sherrie had already built an extraordinary career up

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Emily Tisch Sussman: through ABC News, serving as one of the highest ranking

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Emily Tisch Sussman: women in the Bush White House. But in nineteen ninety five,

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Emily Tisch Sussman: she adopted her daughter Lily from China and everything started

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Emily Tisch Sussman: to change. She had one specific moment where she saw

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Emily Tisch Sussman: baby Lily light up at big Bird on the screen.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Sherrie realized she wanted to build something that mattered for

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Emily Tisch Sussman: kids like hers. A passion began to take shape and

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Emily Tisch Sussman: she pivoted. In her twenty six years at Sesame Workshop,

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Emily Tisch Sussman: she led the creation of Julia, Sesame Street's first autistic muppet,

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Emily Tisch Sussman: secured a landmark one hundred million dollar grant to bring

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Emily Tisch Sussman: early education to refugee children, and recently steered the organization

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Emily Tisch Sussman: through major financial challenges to land a groundbreaking new deal

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Emily Tisch Sussman: with Netflix that ensures at Sesame Street stays accessible. This

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Emily Tisch Sussman: conversation is about motherhood, muppets, and what it really means

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Emily Tisch Sussman: to lead with purpose. This is Sherrie Westin and this

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Emily Tisch Sussman: is how she pivots. What is your name and what

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Emily Tisch Sussman: you do?

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Sherrie Westin: I am Sherrie Westin and I'm President and CEO of

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Sherrie Westin: Sesame Workshop.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Let's go back to little Sherrie. Where are you from?

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Emily Tisch Sussman: What was your family like? Like? What were you interested in?

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Sherrie Westin: Well I grew up in Roanoke, Virginia. My mom was

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Sherrie Westin: very young when she had me. She was twenty three.

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Sherrie Westin: I'm the oldest of three, of two little brothers, and

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Sherrie Westin: so I really did have one of those really happy

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Sherrie Westin: childhoods where you don't know, but it's not the norm, right,

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Sherrie Westin: you take it for granted, But in looking back, it

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Sherrie Westin: was somewhat of an idyllic childhood and so I have

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Sherrie Westin: so many happy memories of my parents and growing up there,

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Sherrie Westin: and it was a great childhood.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Were there particular books or shows that you really connected

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Emily Tisch Sussman: with as a kid?

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Sherrie Westin: I remember reading all the Nancy Drew books

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Same

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Sherrie Westin: And, you know, I don't know what age I started.

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Sherrie Westin: But I remember when I first started reading them and

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Sherrie Westin: Ned Nickerson appeared. I was so upset. I didn't want

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Sherrie Westin: a boy that And then I remember, during the course

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Sherrie Westin: of reading them, you know, being so excited when Ned

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Sherrie Westin: showed up. So I was clearly on the cusp of

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Sherrie Westin: can't stand boys to Nancy has a boyfriend. I just

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Sherrie Westin: remember so many creative price too, Like I started the

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Sherrie Westin: creative class in our basement when I was like in

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Sherrie Westin: fourth grade. So all the younger neighborhood kids came over

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Sherrie Westin: in this summer, and I started the neighborhood gazette, where

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Sherrie Westin: I did little articles on different pets around the neighborhood

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Sherrie Westin: or our families and would stick them in people's mailboxes.

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Sherrie Westin: And if we got a new refrigerator, Mom would help

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Sherrie Westin: us turn the box into a puppet theater, and I

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Sherrie Westin: remember her making marionettes, you know. So there were just

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Sherrie Westin: so many fun childhood projects and experiences.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: You graduated from UVA with a communications degree, but you

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Emily Tisch Sussman: ended up in politics and communications. What was your first

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Emily Tisch Sussman: break getting in

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Sherrie Westin: Well, listen, you know, I know people think because I

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Sherrie Westin: did serve in the Bush forty one administration, both at

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Sherrie Westin: the Department of Housing and Urban Development and then in the

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Sherrie Westin: White House in the last year. But it's not like

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Sherrie Westin: I was on a government path really. When I was

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Sherrie Westin: in Washington out of college. It was the nineteen eighties,

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Sherrie Westin: and my first job was actually for that firm where

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Sherrie Westin: I had interned in Charlottesville because they had opened to

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Sherrie Westin: Washington office. And then I was hired by one of

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Sherrie Westin: their accounts, which was like a chamber of commerce that

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Sherrie Westin: was called the Business and Professional Association of Georgetown. I

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Sherrie Westin: was way too young to have this job, but because

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Sherrie Westin: I had worked on the account and they knew me,

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Sherrie Westin: I remember them saying, we're willing to give you the

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Sherrie Westin: guidance you need for the enthusiasm you've shown. And so

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Sherrie Westin: for four years I worked for a board of directors

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Sherrie Westin: working with all the businesses in Georgetown, and it was

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Sherrie Westin: a great experience. It was everything from hiring and firing

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Sherrie Westin: and running a trolley to decorating the streets to holding

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Sherrie Westin: big events to bring people to Georgetown, festivals, etc. And

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Sherrie Westin: then of course the business interest. I just worked a

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Sherrie Westin: lot with whoever was in the city government, the national government,

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Sherrie Westin: the White House. And it wasn't really that I was

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Sherrie Westin: on a path for a government position. I actually ended

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Sherrie Westin: up working for a large commercial real estate developer, the

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Sherrie Westin: Oliver Carr Company, when they were restoring the Willard Hotel.

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Sherrie Westin: Oliver Carr was sort of a Washington d C. Institution.

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Sherrie Westin: He was a big urban planner. And it was only

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Sherrie Westin: I think because I'd had that experience like four years

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Sherrie Westin: that I was offered the job at Department of Housing

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Sherrie Westin: and Urban Development, right because I had now had experience

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Sherrie Westin: in commercial development, and it seemed at the time like, well,

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Sherrie Westin: how could I not do this? Would be I think,

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Sherrie Westin: the first Senate confirmed Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs. So

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Sherrie Westin: I did it with some trepidation, just thinking, oh my gosh,

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Sherrie Westin: I guess I really should do this. So it was

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Sherrie Westin: really always that one thing just led to the next.

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Sherrie Westin: It was not a grand plan, nor would it make

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Sherrie Westin: much sense if you looked at it looking back. But

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Sherrie Westin: I ended up going to ABC News after HUD, largely

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Sherrie Westin: because the new secretary of HUD, Jack Kemp was saying,

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Sherrie Westin: We're going to clean out the barn. Regardless of the

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Sherrie Westin: fact that it was a previously Republican administration, there was

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Sherrie Westin: just a lot of attention on Kemp and HUD and

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Sherrie Westin: I was Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs, so I worked

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Sherrie Westin: with a lot of the national media, and that's why

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Sherrie Westin: I think after a few years, I got the request

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Sherrie Westin: would I consider coming to ABC News. So again it

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Sherrie Westin: was just that doors opened

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Yeah

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Sherrie Westin: because of different experiences, and I loved being at ABC News.

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Sherrie Westin: Went there for several years. When President Bush asked if

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Sherrie Westin: I would consider coming into the White House in that

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Sherrie Westin: last year because they were going through a lot of

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Sherrie Westin: changes and bringing in sort of a new set of leaders.

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Sherrie Westin: Sonunu was leaving, Sam Skinner was coming in, and I

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Sherrie Westin: was recommended to come in and do public liaison in

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Sherrie Westin: our governmental affairs. And again it was the sort of

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Sherrie Westin: thing where I loved being at ABC News. I wasn't

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Sherrie Westin: ready to leave, but how do you say no too?

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Sherrie Westin: I mean an offer from the President of United States

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Sherrie Westin: or to serve And I was the youngest assistant to

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Sherrie Westin: the President. I was, you know, one of two women.

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Sherrie Westin: We were the highest ranking women in the White House

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Sherrie Westin: and so again I felt like I just had to

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Sherrie Westin: do that and very grateful for the experience, but I

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Sherrie Westin: did it with huge trepidation.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: That's hard to go into high pressure, high ranking situations

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Emily Tisch Sussman: knowing that you will be one of two women and

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Emily Tisch Sussman: the youngest, because you really have to assert your authority.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Then how do you feel like you managed to do that?

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Sherrie Westin: I think you always underestimate yourself and so you go

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Sherrie Westin: in with imposter syndrome, but then realized, my gosh, I

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Sherrie Westin: can do this. When I mentioned my very first job

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Sherrie Westin: was running the association, and I thought I'm too young

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Sherrie Westin: for this, and they said, no, we'll give the guidance

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Sherrie Westin: you need. I think I wore my hair in a

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Sherrie Westin: bun for like four years, trying so hard to look

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Sherrie Westin: like I was older. But when you're always young for

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Sherrie Westin: your positions, there's a moment, like in your mid thirties

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Sherrie Westin: or something, when it dawns on you that you're no

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Sherrie Westin: longer too young for your positions, kind of like really startling.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Yeah, you said, as you were moving in and out

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Emily Tisch Sussman: of public service, there's something about being called to service.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: What was that for you? Did you have a goal?

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Sherrie Westin: You know, I was not always particularly partisan, but I

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Sherrie Westin: was very proud to serve forty one President George Herbert

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Sherrie Westin: Walker Bush, and that was an incredible experience. I mean,

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Sherrie Westin: maybe there is a perception that people are just furthering

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Sherrie Westin: their career, but I think when you look at different administrations,

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Sherrie Westin: both both local as well as national, that the majority

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Sherrie Westin: of people in public service are there because they care

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Sherrie Westin: and they're trying to help their communities.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Can you paint a picture of what your days were

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Emily Tisch Sussman: like when you were in the White House, Like how

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Emily Tisch Sussman: long were the days? Like? What did it really look like?

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Sherrie Westin: Well, as I recall the senior staff meeting was at

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Sherrie Westin: seven am, so you were there and you had already

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Sherrie Westin: read all of the papers, the new summaries, and then

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Sherrie Westin: you never came out of meetings. I mean, because I

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Sherrie Westin: had public Liaison and inter government Affairs, which actually the

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Sherrie Westin: only other White House to organize those two shops under

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Sherrie Westin: one person was the Obama administration, and it was Valerie Jarrett.

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Sherrie Westin: And I'm not comparing myself to Valerie because she was

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Sherrie Westin: also a counselor to the President, so close to President Obama,

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Sherrie Westin: but we talk about it a lot because we had

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Sherrie Westin: the same roles. Meant that everything domestic was under my purview.

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Sherrie Westin: So whatever the president had on his calendar, if it

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Sherrie Westin: was anything domestic, because I had all of state and

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Sherrie Westin: local government and all of private sector and interest groups,

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Sherrie Westin: you had your name and perentheses on his calendar beside

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Sherrie Westin: that meeting, And so all day long, I was mostly

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Sherrie Westin: in meetings with the president when he was meeting with

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Sherrie Westin: various outside representatives. You just never came up for air

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Sherrie Westin: until the end of the day, and that's when you

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Sherrie Westin: were going through all of your mail and messages and

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Sherrie Westin: everything else. So it was it was really intense and stressful,

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Sherrie Westin: no question. I think the only time I remember thinking, wow,

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Sherrie Westin: this is just so cool was when you would be

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Sherrie Westin: on Air Force one flying home, not there, because when

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Sherrie Westin: you were flying there you still were worried about the

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Sherrie Westin: event and everything that had to be done. But when

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Sherrie Westin: you were flying home and you sort of had a

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Sherrie Westin: beer and thought, wow, I want Air Force one, this

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Sherrie Westin: is pretty cool. One time, this is so sweet. I

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Sherrie Westin: can't remember where we were going, but they alerted me

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Sherrie Westin: on Air Force one and said, Sherrie, we're going to

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Sherrie Westin: be flying over raw Oak. Call your parents, call them

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Sherrie Westin: and tell them to look up in three minutes. You know,

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Sherrie Westin: that was kind of sweet. So I remember calling my

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Sherrie Westin: mom saying, guess what, if you look up, you'll see

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Sherrie Westin: Air Force one. I'm on it.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: That is so sweet.

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Sherrie Westin: I thought it was so sweet of that to tell

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Sherrie Westin: me that's sweet.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: In nineteen ninety five, Sherrie embarked on a new, more

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Emily Tisch Sussman: personal challenge. Sherrie adopted her daughter, Lily from China when

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Emily Tisch Sussman: she was five months old. Sherrie described adopting Lily as

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Emily Tisch Sussman: the most important thing she's ever done and her defining moment.

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Sherrie Westin: I really believe becoming Lily's mom it changed the way

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Sherrie Westin: I saw myself the world. I mean, my identity just

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Sherrie Westin: became Lily's mom.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Yeah

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Sherrie Westin: and it was such an incredible blessing. And I then

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Sherrie Westin: had my son almost seven years later, so I have

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Sherrie Westin: one biological one adopted. They are both so equally miraculous.

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Sherrie Westin: And I, you know, David Palmer feels no more my

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Sherrie Westin: son than Lily my daughter. I think it has nothing

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Sherrie Westin: to do with biology. It's just about parenting. I had

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Sherrie Westin: him at like almost forty two, so I find them

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Sherrie Westin: equally miraculous in their own way. I was married and

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Sherrie Westin: my husband at the time was doing a lot of

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Sherrie Westin: business in China, and we had thought about you know

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Sherrie Westin: this might be a wonderful way to start a family,

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Sherrie Westin: but it was more I think, just fate. We heard

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Sherrie Westin: the story Lily was abandoned on the yangs River bridge

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Sherrie Westin: at three weeks of age. Through I think work in

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Sherrie Westin: China and connections, we said, oh my gosh, is there

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Sherrie Westin: a way to give her a home? Could we adopt her?

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Sherrie Westin: And it took about four months to get permission and

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Sherrie Westin: went back and able to bring Lily home. So it

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Sherrie Westin: was just incredible experience. But I do believe it was fate.

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Sherrie Westin: I mean, it's not something that there was a lot

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Sherrie Westin: of planning that went into. I think it was just

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Sherrie Westin: meant to be.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Yeah. And then there's a beautiful story about once you

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Emily Tisch Sussman: brought Lily home and you put on Big Bird goes

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Emily Tisch Sussman: to China and she was mesmerized.

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Sherrie Westin: Well, you know, you know, I think about because the

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Sherrie Westin: fact that Lily spent her first five months of life

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Sherrie Westin: in China and she was taken care of. She was

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Sherrie Westin: in an orphanage. But there was one nurse in particular,

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Sherrie Westin: Madam Fan, who used to take her home, you know,

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Sherrie Westin: to bring her home at five months. Everything sounded different,

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Sherrie Westin: felt different, I looked different, and I think when I

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Sherrie Westin: put Big Bird Ghost to China on and there were

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Sherrie Westin: the voices and the language and the sounds. It was

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Sherrie Westin: brought back to her. I'm convinced it was not just

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Sherrie Westin: Big Bird it was it was that it was China.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: I mean that really must have shown you, like the

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Emily Tisch Sussman: power

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Sherrie Westin: oh well, the importance of those early years of life,

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Sherrie Westin: and even those first few months. I'm so grateful that

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Sherrie Westin: she still had a lot of nurturing care because of

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Sherrie Westin: Madame fan you know, taking her home each night, and

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Sherrie Westin: that's so critical for a child.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: How long did you stay in touch with Madame Fan?

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Sherrie Westin: You couldn't at the time, you know. So I spent

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Sherrie Westin: the full week, you know, spending time with her every

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Sherrie Westin: day when I was there, but there was no way

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Sherrie Westin: to continue to carry on correspondence.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Such a different time now.

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Sherrie Westin: I still keep up with however with Lily's Chinese tutor, when

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Sherrie Westin: she was about eight or nine, we found a wonderful

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Sherrie Westin: woman who was Chinese who was studying music at Juilliard,

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Sherrie Westin: and I wanted Lily to learn Mandarin. In fact, we

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Sherrie Westin: had lessons for the whole neighborhood because I didn't want

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Sherrie Westin: it to feel like she had to just because she's

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Sherrie Westin: from China. But that it was a wonderful language to learn.

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Sherrie Westin: My husband David even took lessons with them. But we

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Sherrie Westin: found Yan Yu from Juilliard and she would come to

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Sherrie Westin: our house every week and do manner lessons. And she's

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Sherrie Westin: now a pop star in China and I do still

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Sherrie Westin: keep up with her. I thought it was so important

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Sherrie Westin: for Lily to have a beautiful young Chinese woman in

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Sherrie Westin: her life because her mother didn't look like her like.

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Sherrie Westin: I just thought it was so important, And I think

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Sherrie Westin: that was always a special relationship

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Emily Tisch Sussman: that's so thoughtful, so intentional.

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Sherrie Westin: Yeah

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Sherrie was at ABC when Disney bought the network and

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Emily Tisch Sussman: plans for their children's now or got canceled, ending what

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Emily Tisch Sussman: she thought was going to be her dream job. After

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Emily Tisch Sussman: the break, we get into how Sherrie persisted and transitioned

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Emily Tisch Sussman: into children's media and Sesame Street be right back.

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Sherrie Westin: As I said earlier, I've just been either fortunate or

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Sherrie Westin: one job led to another. And it wasn't necessarily something

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Sherrie Westin: I thought I would do, but felt like an opportunity

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Sherrie Westin: that I couldn't turn down. But when I was at

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Sherrie Westin: ABC is when I adopted Lily. So now I'm a mom.

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Sherrie Westin: Disney had bought ABC, brought in Jerry Layborn and they

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Sherrie Westin: were going to create a cable channel ABC, and Jerry

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Sherrie Westin: had asked me if I would be interested in becoming

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Sherrie Westin: head of children's programming, and I thought, oh my god,

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Sherrie Westin: that's so perfect because now I'm a mom and I

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Sherrie Westin: care so much and this will connect my desire to

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Sherrie Westin: be a wonderful mother and my career. Than Disney did

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Sherrie Westin: pull the plug, so that was no longer going forward.

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Sherrie Westin: And I do think that's what really made me think,

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Sherrie Westin: wait a minute, this is what I want to do.

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Sherrie Westin: I want to be a children's media and it matters.

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Sherrie Westin: And that is when the first time that I ever thought, Okay,

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Sherrie Westin: where do I go from here? And that's what led

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Sherrie Westin: me to Sesame Street.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Talk us through that process like how did you settle on

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Sesame Street? Did you apply to a broad range of places?

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Sherrie Westin: Well, I mean again, I was fortunate. Joan Yanscooney was

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Sherrie Westin: a dear friend of Diane Sawyer's, and so I knew

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Sherrie Westin: Joan through Diane. Joan certainly, you know, I would see her.

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Sherrie Westin: She adored Lily and she said to me, would you

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Sherrie Westin: ever consider coming to Sesame Street? And I thought, wow,

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Sherrie Westin: that could be perfect. And then I met with the

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Sherrie Westin: then CEO at Sesame Workshop, David Brett, and it turned

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Sherrie Westin: out they were looking for someone to oversee their marketing

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Sherrie Westin: and public television relations and education and outreach. I started

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Sherrie Westin: having those conversations and decided that was the perfect place.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: It seems like a pretty good fit for your experience.

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Sherrie Westin: And when I went, Lily was three and a half,

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Sherrie Westin: so it was sort of perfect.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: How did working at Sesame Workshop change or deepen your

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Emily Tisch Sussman: relationship with your daughter? Did she help guide or inspire

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Emily Tisch Sussman: your vision of how you wanted Sesame to grow?

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Sherrie Westin: Oh, totally, it was so wonderful because I think I

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Sherrie Westin: was a better executive at SESAME because of Lily and

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Sherrie Westin: having my own little focus group at home. I remember

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Sherrie Westin: bringing home a movie hadn't been launched yet, but we

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Sherrie Westin: had the rough cuts of Elmo in Grouchland. I remember

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Sherrie Westin: having Lily watch and all the parts she was scared

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Sherrie Westin: and what she didn't like. Then I went back and

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Sherrie Westin: looked at all the research we'd done, and I thought

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Sherrie Westin: I could have saved us a lot in research because

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Sherrie Westin: I had the exact same reactions from Lily.

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Sesame Street Footage: Hi there! Elmo's learning about kindness today, kindness is doing us this

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Sesame Street Footage: to show your care about people, animals, and the environment. Oh, Elmo will show you.

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Sherrie Westin: But I also think it helped me be a better

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Sherrie Westin: mom too, because with Sesame, we're always focused on research,

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Sherrie Westin: bringing in expert understanding the needs of young children, and

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Sherrie Westin: it was a wonderful way to connect all the things

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Sherrie Westin: that mattered most to me, like I wanted to be

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Sherrie Westin: a great mom, you know, being a mother was my

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Sherrie Westin: absolute greatest experience to this day and most important. And

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Sherrie Westin: yet I always cared very much about my professional work,

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Sherrie Westin: and so having the two so connected was just a blessing.

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Sherrie Westin: And I've never thought I'd be anywhere this long, because,

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Sherrie Westin: as you say, everything led to one thing after a

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Sherrie Westin: few years, and I've been there over twenty five years.

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Sherrie Westin: It's much more complicated organization than people understand. I mean

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Sherrie Westin: the depth and breadth of Sesame workshops work. People think

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Sherrie Westin: of it as just the television show, the US show. No,

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Sherrie Westin: We're in countries all over the world doing really difficult

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Sherrie Westin: work for displaced children, refugee camps, tackling tough issues parental addiction,

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Sherrie Westin: parental incarceration. Then we also, even though we're a nonprofit

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Sherrie Westin: five OO and C three, we have earned revenue, so

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Sherrie Westin: we have licensing deals, we have theme park relationships, we

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Sherrie Westin: have contracts to negotiate, So there's never been a moment

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Sherrie Westin: where I've felt bored or been there, done that. It's

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Sherrie Westin: just a really complicated organization, but it's all mission driven,

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Sherrie Westin: which is just so rewarding. I can't imagine being anywhere else.

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Sherrie Westin: And then I had Lily, and then I had my

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Sherrie Westin: son David, and so in those preschool years, you are

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Sherrie Westin: very popular as a mom. I mean, clearly they've outgrown Sesame.

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Sherrie Westin: But one of my favorite stories is when Lily was

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Sherrie Westin: about five years old, five and a half, and she

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Sherrie Westin: came to me and she said, Mama, Susannah doesn't like

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Sherrie Westin: where you work. And I said, well, you mean Susannah

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Sherrie Westin: doesn't like Sesame Street, right, And she said yes. And

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Sherrie Westin: I said, well, sweetie, Susannah is older, she's eight, and

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Sherrie Westin: children out grow Sesame Street. That's okay. And she said,

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Sherrie Westin: doesn't that hurt your feelings? And I said no, and

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Sherrie Westin: she said are you sure? And I said yes, and

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Sherrie Westin: she said, oh good, because there's something I've been wanting

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Sherrie Westin: to tell you. I just thought that was so sweet.

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Sherrie Westin: She clearly outgrown Sesame Street but didn't want to hurt

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Sherrie Westin: my feelings.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: And she's like, I'm Susannah. Savannah doesn't even exist, I made her up

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Sherrie Westin: I know exactly.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: You're like, we have episodes for this

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Sherrie Westin: yes, but they come back. They come back like my

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Sherrie Westin: children are big sessme fans now.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: One of the issues Sherrie wanted to tackle most was autism.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: She made Sesame Street a global leader in autism representation

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Emily Tisch Sussman: with the creation of Julia, their first ever autistic muppet.

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Sherrie Westin: Being there for over twenty five years, what has kept

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Sherrie Westin: you there? It's the mission and gosh, you know, it

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Sherrie Westin: is so powerful to see the impact you can have.

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Sherrie Westin: You know, I can be in a refugee camp in

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Sherrie Westin: Jordan with Elmo and children are delighting. I can be

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Sherrie Westin: in South Africa and you mentioned Takalani Sesame and children

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Sherrie Westin: start singing the song in Bangladesh. You can't mention Sisimpur

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Sherrie Westin: without children jumping up and down in the airport. I

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Sherrie Westin: mean the impact Sesame has had on children the world over.

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Sherrie Westin: I remember when I first joined. It was soon after

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Sherrie Westin: that we launched the local production in South Africa. I

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Sherrie Westin: was there Johannesburg when we launched and then within a

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Sherrie Westin: year the Administer of Education, his name was Kader Asmal said,

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Sherrie Westin: if we're not addressing HIV and AIDS. We're doing a disservice,

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Sherrie Westin: and you thought, oh my gosh, how are we going

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Sherrie Westin: to do that? These local productions look like sesame, but

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Sherrie Westin: they're local characters. If you saw them, you would think, oh,

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Sherrie Westin: that's like Sesame, but it's completely local, right. Some of

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Sherrie Westin: the characters may be the same and some of them

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Sherrie Westin: are new characters to fit that country. So we spent

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Sherrie Westin: a lot of time doing research. At the time, I

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Sherrie Westin: think one in seven children was affected by AIDS in

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Sherrie Westin: South Africa. It didn't mean necessarily they were infected, but

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Sherrie Westin: either they were infected or they had lost a parent.

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Sherrie Westin: And so we created the first ever HIV positive curriculum

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Sherrie Westin: for preschoolers, completely age appropriate, and it led to the

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Sherrie Westin: creation of Cami. We don't always create new Muppets, but

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Sherrie Westin: if there's a reason it's going to really help in

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Sherrie Westin: terms of the curriculum or in terms of helping children

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Sherrie Westin: see themselves or storylines that can be useful, we do

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Sherrie Westin: and so we created Kami. She lost her mother to AIDS,

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Sherrie Westin: so that gives you a certain storyline around how she

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Sherrie Westin: copes with her memory box. She plays with all the

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Sherrie Westin: other Muppet characters, so that we can show that you

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Sherrie Westin: can't catch HIV from playing or hugging, and that kind

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Sherrie Westin: of work. I absolutely know we've saved lives by reducing

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Sherrie Westin: the stigma surround HIV and AIDS. It was around the

417
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,080
Sherrie Westin: same time that I have been on the UNICEF board

418
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,080
Sherrie Westin: for years, and I was doing a UNICEF mission trip

419
00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,359
Sherrie Westin: in Mozambique, and it was the first time I had

420
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,879
Sherrie Westin: visited pediatric AID clinics throughout the country, and I was

421
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,560
Sherrie Westin: seeing that there were so many women who were HIV

422
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,960
Sherrie Westin: positive who were petrified to get treatment, and there was

423
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,480
Sherrie Westin: literally treatment. I think the drug was an embarrapent that

424
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,480
Sherrie Westin: could guarantee a mother did not pass the virus onto

425
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,320
Sherrie Westin: our unburned child. Again, this was my first education around this,

426
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:28,439
Sherrie Westin: and I realized that it was not a lack of

427
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,800
Sherrie Westin: access to those drugs. They were really available, but it

428
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,960
Sherrie Westin: was the stigma was so great that often women would

429
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,720
Sherrie Westin: not come because they were afraid they'd be ostracized by

430
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,960
Sherrie Westin: their husbands or their villages. And I remember thinking, Oh

431
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,919
Sherrie Westin: my god, Kami's going to save lives because we're going

432
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:45,920
Sherrie Westin: to make it okay to talk about it. We're going

433
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,440
Sherrie Westin: to make it less taboo. I had so many AIDS

434
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,160
Sherrie Westin: counselors in South Africa tell me that their jobs became

435
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,200
Sherrie Westin: so much easier because of Kami that kind of work

436
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,440
Sherrie Westin: is just you know, and I could give you examples

437
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,680
Sherrie Westin: like that. Every year there was something we were tackling.

438
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,000
Sherrie Westin: Julia the first ever autistic muppet. I mean I worked

439
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,639
Sherrie Westin: on that for years. I really wanted us to do

440
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,119
Sherrie Westin: something around autism, and it took a long time, and

441
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,200
Sherrie Westin: it was largely because I just had friends who would

442
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,119
Sherrie Westin: tell me anecdotally that their child with autism gravitated towards

443
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,840
Sherrie Westin: Sesame or the Muppets. We did three years of research,

444
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,840
Sherrie Westin: and we started out with the intention of creating content

445
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,080
Sherrie Westin: that would help families with children with autism, make everyday

446
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,080
Sherrie Westin: moments easier, brushing your teeth, going to the doctor, things

447
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,320
Sherrie Westin: that often are really challenging. But in that research of

448
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:34,080
Sherrie Westin: bringing families together, children together, always in any initiative, bring

449
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,960
Sherrie Westin: together advisors and also those who want to talk directly

450
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,400
Sherrie Westin: to parents and to children, and we found that one

451
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,080
Sherrie Westin: of the biggest issues was how isolated they felt, how

452
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,879
Sherrie Westin: much stigma there was around autism. So it became Okay,

453
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,160
Sherrie Westin: we're going to create these great resources, but we're also

454
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,919
Sherrie Westin: going to tackle the stigma. And that's what led us

455
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,080
Sherrie Westin: to decide we need to create a muppet with autism.

456
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,280
Sherrie Westin: You know, that's not an easy task because no two

457
00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,600
Sherrie Westin: children with autism are the same. So what characteristics will

458
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,920
Sherrie Westin: Julia have? Sesame is great at convening, and we had

459
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,600
Sherrie Westin: a group of organizations that extended from the self advocacy

460
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,919
Sherrie Westin: organizations to the Autism Speaks, you know, both extremes of

461
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,000
Sherrie Westin: the spectrum. No pun intended. Who didn't even agree on

462
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,200
Sherrie Westin: all sorts of things, but they could agree on this

463
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,960
Sherrie Westin: how important it would be to destigmatize.

464
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,080
Sesame Street Footage: Julia loves being with her friends, She loves the plant.

465
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:26,880
Sesame Street Footage: Play play Play.

466
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,560
Sesame Street Footage: You want to play now, Julia, play play Play.

467
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,560
Sesame Street Footage: We can all play together. Hey, that's a great idea.

468
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,600
Sherrie Westin: I'm so proud of that work. It's not just that

469
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,760
Sherrie Westin: Julia gives children with autism a character to identify with,

470
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,160
Sherrie Westin: but it's how much neurotypical children learn about why Julia

471
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,879
Sherrie Westin: is a little different, but what we have in common.

472
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,280
Sherrie Westin: When Big Bird tells Abby, you know, just because Julia

473
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,359
Sherrie Westin: doesn't look you in the eye doesn't mean she doesn't

474
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,160
Sherrie Westin: want to be your friend. She has autism. Yeah, that's

475
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,600
Sherrie Westin: incredibly powerful. I mean, these are the reasons you how

476
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,119
Sherrie Westin: can you leave. What keeps me there is the mission

477
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,240
Sherrie Westin: and the impact, and you know it's always relevant. I

478
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,480
Sherrie Westin: remember getting a letter from one mother who said that

479
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,480
Sherrie Westin: her five year old daughter had autism and she couldn't

480
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,560
Sherrie Westin: figure out how to tell her, how to explain it

481
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,040
Sherrie Westin: to her. And then they read one of our story books,

482
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,320
Sherrie Westin: The Amazing One, two, three, about Julia, and she said

483
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,280
Sherrie Westin: at the end, you know, like Julia, you have autism.

484
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,800
Sherrie Westin: And her daughter said, so, I'm amazing too, right?

485
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,439
Sesame Street Footage: I was just thinking about Julia. You know, she's not

486
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,640
Sesame Street Footage: like any friend I've ever had before. Yeah, but well,

487
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:35,640
Sesame Street Footage: none of us are exactly the same.

488
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:37,120
Sherrie Westin: Yeah, that's right.

489
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,520
Emily Tisch Sussman: I mean you're a bird, Elmo's monster, and I'm a fairy.

490
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:42,680
Sherrie Westin: We're all different.

491
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,359
Emily Tisch Sussman: Oh, yeah, I guess that's true. All my friends are different,

492
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,680
Emily Tisch Sussman: each one is unique.

493
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,800
Sherrie Westin: I do credit Joan Ganz Cooney when you think of sort of

494
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,800
Sherrie Westin: the prescience of Joan and her colleagues and creating Sesame Street.

495
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,600
Sherrie Westin: It was a huge experiment. It was the late sixties.

496
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,120
Sherrie Westin: There was all sorts of research that show the children

497
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,160
Sherrie Westin: in poverty were showing up without the skills they needed

498
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,880
Sherrie Westin: to learn in kindergarten, and we're falling behind. And that's

499
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,800
Sherrie Westin: when television was ubiquitous. It was the new medium, the

500
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,520
Sherrie Westin: new technology of the day, and she thought, if children

501
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,000
Sherrie Westin: can learn jingles and commercials from watching television, why can't

502
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,040
Sherrie Westin: they learn letters and numbers? A It was an overnight success.

503
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,840
Sherrie Westin: Be there's more research on the efficacy of Sesame Street

504
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,520
Sherrie Westin: than any other program, but that ability to use media

505
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,960
Sherrie Westin: to reach all children, but especially those who don't have

506
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,200
Sherrie Westin: the same access to quality early education, is what we're

507
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,080
Sherrie Westin: doing in countries all over the world, so many places

508
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,720
Sherrie Westin: where we're reaching children that would not have access. When

509
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,800
Sherrie Westin: I think of how much we've done for displaced children today,

510
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,920
Sherrie Westin: more children are displaced than ever before, even since World

511
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,120
Sherrie Westin: War Two, and when we're providing content for children who've

512
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,160
Sherrie Westin: left everything behind, I think during COVID, I was thinking,

513
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,320
Sherrie Westin: oh my gosh, our mission. Now every single child on

514
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,640
Sherrie Westin: the planet is out of school and in need of education,

515
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,000
Sherrie Westin: and we know we can reach and teach through media.

516
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,000
Emily Tisch Sussman: I will tell you we watched a lot of Sesame

517
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:04,840
Emily Tisch Sussman: Street during COVID.

518
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,840
Sherrie Westin: Yeah exactly, so again I just think it's the prescience

519
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,600
Sherrie Westin: of this mission. The need will never go away, and

520
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,280
Sherrie Westin: the opportunity to remain relevant and be looking at what

521
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,080
Sherrie Westin: are the most important issues today or sesame can play

522
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,200
Sherrie Westin: a role is what I find, you know, so important

523
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:20,000
Sherrie Westin: and so powerful.

524
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,439
Emily Tisch Sussman: I want to come back and ask about how you

525
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,040
Emily Tisch Sussman: make that determination about what are the pressing issues and

526
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,520
Emily Tisch Sussman: how you design around it. But on the representation and

527
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,280
Emily Tisch Sussman: autism point in particular, I had that experience over the

528
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,800
Emily Tisch Sussman: last I think probably about a year and a half ago,

529
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,080
Emily Tisch Sussman: where I co produced a Broadway show called How To

530
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,520
Emily Tisch Sussman: Dance in Ohio, which was about seven autistic adults kind

531
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,159
Emily Tisch Sussman: of managing their way through their days. Fiona Rudin was

532
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:42,840
Emily Tisch Sussman: the lead producer. She brought me into it.

533
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,600
Sherrie Westin: Yeah, no, that was fantastic

534
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,879
Emily Tisch Sussman: and it was played by seven autistic actors. I brought

535
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,240
Emily Tisch Sussman: my kids to the show. They loved it. My kids

536
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:52,120
Emily Tisch Sussman: are neurotypical.

537
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:53,880
Sherrie Westin: It ends with like a prom right?

538
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:54,760
Emily Tisch Sussman: yeah,

539
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,000
Sherrie Westin: oh my god, I love that.

540
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,800
Sherrie Westin: I love the show. And actually on opening night, I

541
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,719
Sherrie Westin: know does that. Everyone around me seemed very enthusiastic, and

542
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,479
Sherrie Westin: at intermission I realized that they were the real people

543
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,480
Sherrie Westin: that the show is based off of, and I was

544
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:12,080
Sherrie Westin: so incredibly honored to see themselves portrayed on a Broadway stage.

545
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,479
Sherrie Westin: And I said, when I saw Fiona again I said, I'm so honored

546
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,159
Sherrie Westin: to have been seen near them, and she's like, you know,

547
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,239
Sherrie Westin: I really wanted them to be surrounded by people who

548
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,159
Sherrie Westin: would appreciate them. And I did feel really honored. But

549
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,359
Sherrie Westin: my son, in particular, I think he was six at

550
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,399
Sherrie Westin: the time. He must have seen the show four times.

551
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,280
Sherrie Westin: He felt so connected to it. He felt so connected

552
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,840
Sherrie Westin: to that character who sings that big song at the end,

553
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:37,600
Sherrie Westin: who is non binary, mixed race, gender non conforming, and

554
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,399
Sherrie Westin: he sings this beautiful song about being seen. And my

555
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,679
Sherrie Westin: son is six years old and he's locked in and

556
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,879
Sherrie Westin: he just starts crying and he looks at me and

557
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,240
Sherrie Westin: he says, Mommy, I don't know what's happening to my body.

558
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,440
Sherrie Westin: And I was like, you're really feeling it. You really

559
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,359
Sherrie Westin: understand him. We listen to the song all the time.

560
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,440
Sherrie Westin: He thinks about it all the time, and it really

561
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,000
Sherrie Westin: reinforced for me the power of the arts, Like it

562
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,960
Sherrie Westin: was important for the people who the show is based

563
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,879
Sherrie Westin: off of to see themselves. And

564
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:01,760
Sherrie Westin: that's a whole point

565
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,600
Emily Tisch Sussman: exactly. It was important for my neurotypical kids

566
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:06,280
Sherrie Westin: absolutely

567
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:07,879
Emily Tisch Sussman: to see the story. I could have never I mean,

568
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,239
Emily Tisch Sussman: imagine if I had sat down with the five year

569
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,560
Emily Tisch Sussman: old was like, and here's autism. It never would have

570
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:11,960
Emily Tisch Sussman: landed

571
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:13,960
Sherrie Westin: Now we have so much research too that like teachers

572
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,639
Sherrie Westin: that say they're children with autism now have more play dates,

573
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,800
Sherrie Westin: that more. I mean, there's just you know, increasing empathy

574
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,960
Sherrie Westin: and understanding. I mean, I think that's one of the

575
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,160
Sherrie Westin: greatest things. Are so amazing and All Children Initiative is done,

576
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,640
Sherrie Westin: and you know, in addition to again giving autistic children

577
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,960
Sherrie Westin: this incredible character and resources.

578
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,200
Emily Tisch Sussman: One of my best friends just about two weeks ago

579
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,520
Emily Tisch Sussman: her son was diagnosed with autism and they're trying to

580
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,040
Emily Tisch Sussman: figure out how to tell them. So when you know,

581
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:38,719
Emily Tisch Sussman: when you say there's this book, first of I'm going

582
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,480
Emily Tisch Sussman: to ask you for this book please, But also she

583
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,439
Emily Tisch Sussman: keeps referencing back to the show. She's like, see, like

584
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:43,560
Emily Tisch Sussman: you can live a life

585
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,119
Sherrie Westin: right absolutely, and to feel less alone.

586
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:52,400
Sesame Street Footage: Sometimes Abby invite new friends to come and play from us. Yeah,

587
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,240
Sesame Street Footage: we like to make sure everybody gets to play together.

588
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,280
Emily Tisch Sussman: How do you decide these big things that you're going

589
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,520
Emily Tisch Sussman: to take on the process. I mean, you have a

590
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,440
Emily Tisch Sussman: program bringing education to refugee children in the Middle East,

591
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,480
Emily Tisch Sussman: How do you even conceptualize something of that scale?

592
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,480
Sherrie Westin: Some of it will just be when at the height

593
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,439
Sherrie Westin: of the Syrian crisis. You're seeing more children displace than

594
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,720
Sherrie Westin: any other time since World War Two. We have a

595
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,560
Sherrie Westin: lot of work in the Middle East. We had done

596
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,840
Sherrie Westin: local productions in Jordan and Egypt. We had all this

597
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,080
Sherrie Westin: Arabic content. How can we help these children who have

598
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,560
Sherrie Westin: left Syria and or throughout the Middle East? What could

599
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,360
Sherrie Westin: we do? But we're not a direct service organization. We're

600
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,399
Sherrie Westin: educators and we create. We use media. It's no longer

601
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,080
Sherrie Westin: just television. It's every means possible to reach children different platforms.

602
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,240
Sherrie Westin: But we have proven content that can really make a difference.

603
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,960
Sherrie Westin: So I remember, we looked at a lot of different

604
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,000
Sherrie Westin: organizations that were working in the Middle East on refugee issues,

605
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,671
Sherrie Westin: and they're all doing great work. UNICEF, Save the Children,

606
00:28:46,671 --> 00:28:49,320
Sherrie Westin: Mercy Corp. But we've ended up focusing on IRC, the

607
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,560
Sherrie Westin: International Rescue Committee, because they had a really large footprint

608
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,840
Sherrie Westin: in the Middle East. They also had an early childhood

609
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,479
Sherrie Westin: division and they cared a lot about data. And so

610
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,520
Sherrie Westin: I went to David Milliban and said, could we do

611
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:02,800
Sherrie Westin: a pilot? Can I give you a lot of this

612
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:04,520
Sherrie Westin: content and see if you can use it with your

613
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,280
Sherrie Westin: home visitors, your learning centers, and we agreed that both

614
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,400
Sherrie Westin: of us are nonprofits. We had no funding, but we

615
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,920
Sherrie Westin: went to I think it was Istanbul at the first

616
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,959
Sherrie Westin: Humanitarian Summit and announced that we were going to come together,

617
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,280
Sherrie Westin: hoping we put a stake in the ground, we would

618
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,280
Sherrie Westin: raise funding and we did. I think it was about

619
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,080
Sherrie Westin: two hundred and fifty thousand dollars and we started this

620
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:26,520
Sherrie Westin: pilot and that's when I heard about MacArthur Foundation doing

621
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,680
Sherrie Westin: the first ever one hundred million dollar competition called one

622
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,960
Sherrie Westin: hundred Change, and I went back to David and said,

623
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,120
Sherrie Westin: we should do this. It's for a pressing issue right

624
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,840
Sherrie Westin: time fast forward. Never dreamed we would be selected, and

625
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,360
Sherrie Westin: we ended up with this hundred million dollar grant, the

626
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,040
Sherrie Westin: largest early childhood intervention in the history of humanitarian response.

627
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,520
Sherrie Westin: That led to our work expanding to Bangladesh, the Lego

628
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,200
Sherrie Westin: Foundation funding now in Latin America with Children on the Move.

629
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,480
Sherrie Westin: So it's been incredible. But it was because we saw

630
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,120
Sherrie Westin: this issue and we knew there was something we could

631
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,480
Sherrie Westin: do to contribute. So sometimes it's just seeing those issues

632
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,720
Sherrie Westin: highlighted that when we did our military families initially did

633
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,680
Sherrie Westin: that program to help, it was because there was a

634
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,360
Sherrie Westin: New York Times article saying that I think seven hundred

635
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,000
Sherrie Westin: thousand families had very young children and their parents were

636
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,400
Sherrie Westin: facing multiple deployments. Dawned on us there are no resources.

637
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,320
Sherrie Westin: What could we do? We created talk lists and connect, Elmo's Dad.

638
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,320
Sherrie Westin: I mean we distributed I think over six million DVDs.

639
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,560
Sherrie Westin: We've been working with the military ever since. But if

640
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,640
Sherrie Westin: you're two and a half and Elmos' is your hero

641
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,240
Sherrie Westin: and you're watching a DVD with your mom or dad,

642
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,760
Sherrie Westin: when almost Dad has to go away for a long time,

643
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,120
Sherrie Westin: it becomes a catalyst for that parent who often wouldn't

644
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,959
Sherrie Westin: be talking to a young child. So sometimes it's just

645
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,520
Sherrie Westin: simply this is a huge issue, how can we help?

646
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,920
Sherrie Westin: Other times it will be our partners on the ground,

647
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,200
Sherrie Westin: because we do work in local communities with a lot

648
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,000
Sherrie Westin: of direct service providers who will say, in serving those communities,

649
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,760
Sherrie Westin: you know what, we're dealing with so many families with

650
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,880
Sherrie Westin: addiction because they opioid crisis and there is nothing to

651
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,800
Sherrie Westin: help young children understand that. And that comes from a

652
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,600
Sherrie Westin: partner to us saying we see a huge need and

653
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,360
Sherrie Westin: void here. Again, we'll always do research and analyze something.

654
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,400
Sherrie Westin: Is this a place we could make a difference, But

655
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,080
Sherrie Westin: it's either through partners on the ground or through our

656
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:13,280
Sherrie Westin: own observations. We can't do everything but suppressing need affecting

657
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,320
Sherrie Westin: enough children, and there's an area where we could make

658
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:16,840
Sherrie Westin: a difference.

659
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,080
Emily Tisch Sussman: Despite the highs, there were some lows. For Sesame Street,

660
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,960
Emily Tisch Sussman: HBO didn't renew. They were financial struggles, and Sherrie found

661
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,040
Emily Tisch Sussman: herself at the helm of one of the most beloved

662
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:33,000
Emily Tisch Sussman: institutions in the world during one of its most uncertain moments.

663
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,479
Emily Tisch Sussman: We hear about how she pushed through it after the break.

664
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,600
Emily Tisch Sussman: So I want to ask about your particular leadership. There

665
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,280
Emily Tisch Sussman: were some challenging months leading up to becoming CEO.

666
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,240
Sherrie Westin: You think, yes, it's been a challenging time.

667
00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:00,160
Emily Tisch Sussman: You walked into HBO didn't renew, there were financial deficits,

668
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:01,920
Emily Tisch Sussman: and then in March twenty twenty five you had to

669
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,240
Emily Tisch Sussman: lay off but twenty percent of the staff, and the

670
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,720
Emily Tisch Sussman: New York Times had a headline, "why does big Bird

671
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:07,720
Emily Tisch Sussman: look so sad?"

672
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:08,479
Sherrie Westin: Yeah

673
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,000
Emily Tisch Sussman: that is brutal.

674
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,200
Sherrie Westin: That's not an article you really want to see. But

675
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,400
Sherrie Westin: I will say it was basically accurate. When I became CEO,

676
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,000
Sherrie Westin: It's not like these were surprises. I knew that we

677
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,840
Sherrie Westin: were facing. Probably some of the biggest challenges. You know,

678
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,520
Sherrie Westin: as long as I've been there, becoming CEO was not

679
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,240
Sherrie Westin: something that I necessarily felt the need to do. But

680
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,040
Sherrie Westin: this was a time when I honestly felt, how can

681
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,440
Sherrie Westin: I not? And you know, I used to always think, oh,

682
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,160
Sherrie Westin: I love what I'm doing. I want to continue to

683
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,840
Sherrie Westin: focus on the programming or on the areas where I am.

684
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:40,800
Sherrie Westin: I can't work any harder than I do. I don't

685
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,000
Sherrie Westin: need any more stress. But it sort of dawned on me.

686
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,760
Sherrie Westin: I took over as acting CEO, saying I don't want

687
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,920
Sherrie Westin: to be permanent CEO, but I'll step in to be acting,

688
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,239
Sherrie Westin: And then I realized I should just do this, And

689
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,400
Sherrie Westin: I think I also thought, if someone comes in from

690
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,960
Sherrie Westin: the outside, it may actually be more stressful than me

691
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,360
Sherrie Westin: just stepping up. And I am modestly felt like, knowing

692
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,400
Sherrie Westin: we were going to have to downsize, that I would

693
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,240
Sherrie Westin: do it with more care perhaps than someone from the outside,

694
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,640
Sherrie Westin: because I understand the organization and feel so deeply. But

695
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,600
Sherrie Westin: that's not something you ever want to have to do.

696
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,080
Sherrie Westin: It's because it was necessary for the long term success

697
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,760
Sherrie Westin: of the organization. So I went into this job knowing

698
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,400
Sherrie Westin: it was going to be hell, but also feeling like

699
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,680
Sherrie Westin: this is the right thing to do. There were some

700
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,760
Sherrie Westin: things we didn't anticipate. HBO had sold to Warner Discovery.

701
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,800
Sherrie Westin: We'd known for the last year or so when that

702
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:28,640
Sherrie Westin: deal was up it was not going to be renewed,

703
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,560
Sherrie Westin: certainly not at the same level. Because ten years ago

704
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,040
Sherrie Westin: when we went to Richard Plepler and did the HBO deal,

705
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,520
Sherrie Westin: now eleven years ago, streaming it was a media environment

706
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,240
Sherrie Westin: was so different. They were paying a lot of money

707
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,640
Sherrie Westin: for streaming. That was a very lucrative arrangement for Sesame,

708
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,239
Sherrie Westin: which helped pay for our production, also gave us some

709
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,720
Sherrie Westin: unrestricted funding a significant amount to cover our operating costs,

710
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,160
Sherrie Westin: and that was fantastic for ten years. But HBO sold

711
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,640
Sherrie Westin: to ATD then sold to Warner Discovery. We knew Warner

712
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,400
Sherrie Westin: Discovery wasn't going to renew at that level, and there's

713
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,280
Sherrie Westin: no hard feel because children's was not their priority. We

714
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,000
Sherrie Westin: still have a library deal and a great relationship, but

715
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:07,719
Sherrie Westin: we didn't know where we were going to be, so

716
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,440
Sherrie Westin: that was a huge financial risk. It's in large part

717
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,040
Sherrie Westin: where we knew we were going to have to right

718
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,280
Sherrie Westin: size the organization. The economics were just different across the board,

719
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,799
Sherrie Westin: and that was not unique to SESAME. I did not

720
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,120
Sherrie Westin: anticipate that there would also be the USAID funding cuts,

721
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,160
Sherrie Westin: which meant we had to close our operation in Bangladesh,

722
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,480
Sherrie Westin: which was heartbreaking after twenty years. Government funding is less

723
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,359
Sherrie Westin: than four percent of SESAME workshops overall budget, so that's

724
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,960
Sherrie Westin: not an existential threat, but it's one hundred percent of

725
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,880
Sherrie Westin: our funding and places like Bangladesh or a rock, so

726
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:42,040
Sherrie Westin: that added an additional really difficult cutbacks in countries where

727
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:46,080
Sherrie Westin: you're making such a difference. Fortunately, we also, I think

728
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,560
Sherrie Westin: May we weren't able to announce our new partnership with

729
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,520
Sherrie Westin: both Netflix and PBS. It was very important to us

730
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:56,520
Sherrie Westin: that it'd be a public private partnership because Netflix was

731
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,840
Sherrie Westin: so important from a reach standpoint. We're now in one

732
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,520
Sherrie Westin: hundred and ninety countries, reaching three hundred million homes over

733
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,960
Sherrie Westin: thirty two languages, I think. But also it's equally important

734
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,719
Sherrie Westin: for us to maintain our partnership with PBS. We've been

735
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,239
Sherrie Westin: with PBS since the inception of Sesame, and we have

736
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,560
Sherrie Westin: to reach all children, not just those who can afford

737
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,400
Sherrie Westin: a streaming service. That's a huge part of our DNA.

738
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,160
Sherrie Westin: And then we were able to expand our YouTube deal

739
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,720
Sherrie Westin: with the largest amount of library content. So that big

740
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,719
Sherrie Westin: word being so sad article I think was March and

741
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,120
Sherrie Westin: these announcements were May, which was you know, I'm really

742
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:34,600
Sherrie Westin: proud of where we are today. Coming through last year

743
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,640
Sherrie Westin: was not easy for the organization, for me personally, but

744
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,840
Sherrie Westin: we're still standing. I think the hardest challenge going forward

745
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,200
Sherrie Westin: is just the economics of sustainability because again, these are

746
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:48,720
Sherrie Westin: fantastic distribution deals for our reach and for our mission,

747
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,440
Sherrie Westin: but the percentage of funding that comes from earned revenue

748
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,919
Sherrie Westin: versus philanthropic has shifted significantly, so we have to raise

749
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,160
Sherrie Westin: a lot more philanthropic funding in order to sustain this

750
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,879
Sherrie Westin: work going forward. We're always looking for ways to raise

751
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:06,040
Sherrie Westin: awareness of Sesame's need for support. I think partly because

752
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,120
Sherrie Westin: we're a victim of our own success. You see it

753
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,840
Sherrie Westin: as a successful domestic television show. You might see licensed product,

754
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,520
Sherrie Westin: and people assume we don't need support, and yet we

755
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,040
Sherrie Westin: are a cause we're supporting and in need of support.

756
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:22,080
Sherrie Westin: One opportunity we have is that the former CEO Jeff Done,

757
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,000
Sherrie Westin: when he stepped down a few years ago, said he

758
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:25,759
Sherrie Westin: wanted to ask me if I would help him with

759
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,319
Sherrie Westin: a passion project, which was He always wanted to do

760
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,799
Sherrie Westin: a book on mothers because he was so close to

761
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,040
Sherrie Westin: his mom. Believes that if she had grown up in

762
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,040
Sherrie Westin: his era, she would have been the CEO, not him,

763
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,440
Sherrie Westin: you know, And so we agreed we would do this

764
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,960
Sherrie Westin: if the proceeds would go to Sesame Workshop. So for

765
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,200
Sherrie Westin: this spring, we're launching What I Learned from Mom. Each

766
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,040
Sherrie Westin: chapter is from Cindy Crawford to Ken Burns talking about

767
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,000
Sherrie Westin: their mothers and hopefully it'll be a good Mother's Day

768
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,240
Sherrie Westin: gift and all the author proceeds will go to Sesame Workshop.

769
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,000
Emily Tisch Sussman: I asked this question of all of my guests, what

770
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,160
Emily Tisch Sussman: is something that you saw as a negative or a

771
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,319
Emily Tisch Sussman: low point and now you see it as have really

772
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,040
Emily Tisch Sussman: launched you to the success you are today.

773
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,960
Sherrie Westin: Well, I guess I would say then I mentioned this

774
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,879
Sherrie Westin: earlier that you know, as disappointed as I was when

775
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,759
Sherrie Westin: the children's television opportunity was not there at ABC that

776
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,960
Sherrie Westin: I thought there would be. You know, if that hadn't happened,

777
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,440
Sherrie Westin: I wouldn't have ended up at Sesame Street. So in

778
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,160
Sherrie Westin: looking back, you know, I would say that that would

779
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,560
Sherrie Westin: be a great example. Do you think you'll pivot again? No?

780
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,080
Sherrie Westin: Are you getting I don't expect to pivot again personally,

781
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,359
Sherrie Westin: if you've been a different job, I will retire from

782
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,360
Sherrie Westin: SESAME workshop for sure. I mean we pivot all the

783
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,800
Sherrie Westin: time at Sesame's. That's the important thing is constantly pivoting

784
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,520
Sherrie Westin: to make sure that we're learning, that we're iterating every

785
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,719
Sherrie Westin: new season as an experiment. You know, in leading an organization,

786
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,239
Sherrie Westin: I think today it is so important that you're flexible

787
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,200
Sherrie Westin: and that you're responsive. The world is changing more than

788
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:49,200
Sherrie Westin: ever before, and that impacts Sesame, but it also impacts

789
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,400
Sherrie Westin: what we do to help parents navigate those changes. For children,

790
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,440
Sherrie Westin: children are growing up in a world that's more divided

791
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,759
Sherrie Westin: than ever. Technology is changing, growing up in a digital world,

792
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,440
Sherrie Westin: an AI powered world. There's a huge role for Sesame

793
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:04,240
Sherrie Westin: in providing parents with resources to navigate that and also

794
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,960
Sherrie Westin: what do children need because those early years are the

795
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,120
Sherrie Westin: most important in setting a child in the right path.

796
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:11,799
Emily Tisch Sussman: Okay, well you open the door. So I have to

797
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,520
Emily Tisch Sussman: ask you, how should we be thinking about AI and children.

798
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,479
Sherrie Westin: Well, you know, we look at it both the risk

799
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,160
Sherrie Westin: and the opportunities. So there are a lot of opportunities.

800
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,319
Sherrie Westin: You know, we see them in medicine, We particularly see

801
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:28,440
Sherrie Westin: them in assistive technology for neurodiverse children, like personalized learning.

802
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,239
Sherrie Westin: Those are real opportunities, but I think we also have

803
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,319
Sherrie Westin: to really understand the risk, particularly around anthropomorphic AI for

804
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,360
Sherrie Westin: young children. We have a grant from Google dot Org

805
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:42,520
Sherrie Westin: which is fantastic to do research and resources for parents

806
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:47,279
Sherrie Westin: and families to develop strategies and structures to build more

807
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,279
Sherrie Westin: digital well being, helping children at a younger age have

808
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:54,040
Sherrie Westin: a healthy relationship with media, with digital technology, and helping

809
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,799
Sherrie Westin: parents understand how to navigate that. So we look at

810
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,640
Sherrie Westin: both the opportunities, but also how can we use our

811
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,359
Sherrie Westin: trust to voice and the fact that we have all

812
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,640
Sherrie Westin: of these years of experience on the needs of young

813
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,840
Sherrie Westin: children to help navigate and provide those resources and tools

814
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,960
Sherrie Westin: for children. So I think actually it's another example of

815
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,920
Sherrie Westin: how relevant sesame remains. We're always looking at what are

816
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:16,440
Sherrie Westin: the most pressing issues today.

817
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:18,582
Emily Tisch Sussman: Well, thank you so much for joining us

818
00:39:18,582 --> 00:39:20,279
Sherrie Westin: Thank you so much.

819
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,719
Emily Tisch Sussman: Sherrie's pivot is where the personal became the professional. She

820
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,480
Emily Tisch Sussman: took the love she had for her own children and

821
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,759
Emily Tisch Sussman: turned it into a mission. She brought that love to

822
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:36,239
Emily Tisch Sussman: refugee camps in Jordan, to classrooms in Bangladesh, and to

823
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,160
Emily Tisch Sussman: living rooms in one hundred and ninety countries and all

824
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,439
Emily Tisch Sussman: of it. Drea's is back to one little girl named

825
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,440
Emily Tisch Sussman: Lily in a moment of clarity, watching her light up

826
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,680
Emily Tisch Sussman: at Big Bird on the Screen. Learn more about Sesame

827
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,759
Emily Tisch Sussman: Workshop at Sesame Workshop dot org, and if you want

828
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,680
Emily Tisch Sussman: to support their mission, check out Sherrie's new book What

829
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,600
Emily Tisch Sussman: I Learned from Mom, featuring contributions from names like Cyndy Crawford,

830
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,040
Emily Tisch Sussman: Tory Birch, and Noah Kahan. All the author proceeds go

831
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,440
Emily Tisch Sussman: directly to Sesame Workshop and honestly, it sounds like a

832
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:11,200
Emily Tisch Sussman: perfect Mother's Day gift. We'll see you next time. Thanks

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Emily Tisch Sussman: for listening to she pivots. If you like this episode,

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Emily Tisch Sussman: follow the show so you never miss a pivot story

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Emily Tisch Sussman: and share it with one woman in your life who

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Emily Tisch Sussman: might need to hear it. To learn more about our

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Emily Tisch Sussman: guests and join our community, follow us on Instagram at

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Emily Tisch Sussman: she pivots the podcast our subscribe to our substack for

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Emily Tisch Sussman: exclusive content and behind the scenes conversations. You can also

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Emily Tisch Sussman: find us at shepivotspod dot com. This episode was produced

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Emily Tisch Sussman: and edited by Paige Davis Janatt, with sound editing and

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Emily Tisch Sussman: mixing by Nina Pollock Logistics and planning by Amastopic and

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Kendall Crupkin, research by Christine Dickison. She Pivots is proud

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Emily Tisch Sussman: to be a part of the iHeart podcast network.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: I endorse she pivots