WEBVTT - The Invention of Soap

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to stot to Blow Your Mind production of My

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<v Speaker 1>Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind.

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<v Speaker 1>My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick and

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<v Speaker 1>Robert I am ready to leather up. That's right. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>In this episode, we are going to be exploring un invention.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh we're getting into a little techno history here, but

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to be considering soap. Uh. Soap has been

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<v Speaker 1>on everyone's mind a bit more these days, I think. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>this is actually a topic that was suggested to us

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<v Speaker 1>for our our previous side show, Invention, which is now

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<v Speaker 1>back a part of Stuff to Blow Your Mind itself. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>soap is something that is I think easy to take

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<v Speaker 1>for granted, uh, given normal situations. Right, soap is just

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<v Speaker 1>the thing that you uh, you know, speedily wash your

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<v Speaker 1>hands with, you know, add a little bit of a

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<v Speaker 1>nice smell, take some of the grease or grit off

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<v Speaker 1>so you can move on to something else, perhaps give

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<v Speaker 1>you a little bit of peace of mind before you

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<v Speaker 1>do things like prepare food or put your contacts in.

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<v Speaker 1>But lately it is of course has been stressed how

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<v Speaker 1>essential it is via handwashing in the prevention of the

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<v Speaker 1>spread of COVID nineteen. All right, so let's let's talk

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<v Speaker 1>about soap. Soap is, of course a human invention. But

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<v Speaker 1>did we ever get by without it? I mean, it's

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<v Speaker 1>hard for us to imagine life without soap, especially now,

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<v Speaker 1>because it aids us in the cleaning of our bodies.

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<v Speaker 1>It also helps us via you know, detergents, in the

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<v Speaker 1>cleaning of our garments. We use uh, soaps to to

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<v Speaker 1>clean you know, objects and surfaces as well. It helps

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<v Speaker 1>maintain basic hygiene, it prevents the spread of disease, and

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<v Speaker 1>it can also impart a pleasing odor. You know, what's

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<v Speaker 1>not to love about soap? And how on earth can

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<v Speaker 1>we get by without it? Now? Obviously we can look

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<v Speaker 1>to the animal world for plenty of examples, but but

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<v Speaker 1>a few common examples do tell us a lot. Birds,

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<v Speaker 1>for instance, clean themselves with their eeks, and they use

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<v Speaker 1>water or dust to bathe themselves. Uh. Cats, dogs and

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<v Speaker 1>cows are frequent examples of animals that lick themselves to

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<v Speaker 1>clean themselves. And uh, let's consider a few terms to

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<v Speaker 1>put things in perspective as well. We're talking about grooming,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a comfort behavior that is the practice of

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<v Speaker 1>cleaning the body surface including the cleaning and oiling of

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<v Speaker 1>feathers with the bill or of the hair with the tongue.

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<v Speaker 1>And there are a few broad categories here. There's first

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<v Speaker 1>of all, auto grooming, that is an animal's grooming of itself.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, ultimately that's what's going on when you

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<v Speaker 1>take a shower in the morning or in the evening

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<v Speaker 1>or whenever or both, you know, go go out. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>There's also al of grooming, which is an animals grooming

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<v Speaker 1>of another for parental or social reasons. Yeah, and uh,

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<v Speaker 1>one thing that's very interesting is the the array of

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<v Speaker 1>social dynamics that seem to take place through grooming behaviors,

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<v Speaker 1>like say, primate grooming behaviors where primates will sometimes pick

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<v Speaker 1>pick little knits and bits and bugs out of each

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<v Speaker 1>other's hair as a way to to manage and mediate

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<v Speaker 1>social bonds within groups. Yeah, it becomes a part of

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<v Speaker 1>the society for for creatures like that and for creatures

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<v Speaker 1>like us. So all of this amounts to a general

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<v Speaker 1>physical removal of particles scraped away, picked away, washed away.

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<v Speaker 1>And there may be bacteria sidal properties as well. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, particularly you'll see something there's some studies about

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<v Speaker 1>saliva m into what degree they may be able to

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<v Speaker 1>kill bacteria. But this, this basic removal can deal with

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<v Speaker 1>everything from sand and dirt to dead skin cells, loose hairs,

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<v Speaker 1>loose feathers, and like you mentioned, actual exo parasites, and

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<v Speaker 1>of course in cleansing oneself, it's helpful to use nails

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<v Speaker 1>and claws and beaks and all these uh these various

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<v Speaker 1>uh uh you know, bio tools that we've already mentioned.

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<v Speaker 1>But in dealing with with humans, in dealing with home

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<v Speaker 1>sapiens and some of Homo sapiens closest kin, we of

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<v Speaker 1>course have to get into tool use. We get into

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<v Speaker 1>the techno history of the situation here. And one of

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<v Speaker 1>the sources I was looking at for this episode was

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<v Speaker 1>soaps from the Phoenicians to the twentieth century. A historical

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<v Speaker 1>review by roth at All came out in they point

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<v Speaker 1>out a few key examples from quote the pre soap era,

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<v Speaker 1>This is uh an area you might think of as

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<v Speaker 1>the squeegee era, you know, where there we did have

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<v Speaker 1>some tools. We we probably were interested in cleaning ourselves,

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<v Speaker 1>but we didn't have soap yet. So what can you do?

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe you can kind of squeege your skin with a

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<v Speaker 1>with a little bit of abrasive action. Yeah, and indeed, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>Neolithic people apparently used flint scrapers to clean themselves, a

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<v Speaker 1>basic way to remove dirt, grime, dead skin cells. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>why depend on just those those So I'm guessing horrid

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<v Speaker 1>fingernails that you have, uh during the Neolithic period, when

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<v Speaker 1>you can also start using some some some tools. You're

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<v Speaker 1>using tools to scrape other things. You need a good

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<v Speaker 1>scraping as well, So grab some flint and get in there. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>I really hope that they were not using the same

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<v Speaker 1>hand axes, by faces or pieces of flint to process

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<v Speaker 1>animal carcasses and then to scrape their own skin clean.

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<v Speaker 1>But I have to guess there probably was a bit acrossover. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it seems inevitable, it doesn't it. But so the use

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<v Speaker 1>of a kind of a bit of mechanical leverage some

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<v Speaker 1>some scraping with a tool did not stop with Neolithic

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<v Speaker 1>or Stone Age people. This actually did continue into classical

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<v Speaker 1>civilizations like the Romans did something similar. Yeah, before the

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<v Speaker 1>Age of plenty in the first centuries. See, the Greeks

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<v Speaker 1>and Romans depended on well, they had vapor baths, they

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<v Speaker 1>had you know, an extravagant bath system for sure, but

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<v Speaker 1>also they would scrub and scrape the skin with a

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<v Speaker 1>st strigle or skin scraper made of bone, ivory or

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<v Speaker 1>at all. And this basically what it sounds like. You

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<v Speaker 1>get the you get the skin itself, you know, nice

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<v Speaker 1>and moist from a bath or perhaps via the application

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<v Speaker 1>of an oil, and then you can start scraping away

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<v Speaker 1>and remove that, you know, that outer layer of grime,

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<v Speaker 1>dead skin, etcetera. I guess some people still use something

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<v Speaker 1>like this to cleanse themselves. I mean in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>just dealing with our skin. I mean, I know, for

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<v Speaker 1>instance that just going to the y m c A,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll hear some of the the older gentleman in the

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<v Speaker 1>locker room. Uh, they would talk of ways that they

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<v Speaker 1>would deal with the like the thickened callouses on their feet,

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<v Speaker 1>and some of the sometimes bad advice they would give

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<v Speaker 1>each other would involve essentially scraping away the skin, generally

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<v Speaker 1>with with tools and implements that were not designed for

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<v Speaker 1>that purpose. Wait, it sounds like you've got a specific

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<v Speaker 1>tool in mind, or they like using a food processor

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<v Speaker 1>blade or what. Um, Well, one was definitely there was

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<v Speaker 1>a guy that was telling me what you need to

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<v Speaker 1>do is you need to get yourself safety raiser and

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<v Speaker 1>then remove some of the safety features and then you

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<v Speaker 1>can just you can, you know, scrape away some skin. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>which sounds like a bad idea, and I do not

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<v Speaker 1>recommend anyone do that. Another person said, what you need

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<v Speaker 1>to do is you need to get one of these

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<v Speaker 1>and he held up, um, oh, well, what's the what

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<v Speaker 1>do you call these? It's the it's for the the

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<v Speaker 1>grating of say ginger, for culinary purposes. A microplane. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>a microplane. Uh. So he held a microplane and he says,

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<v Speaker 1>you can get one of these at bed, bath and beyond.

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<v Speaker 1>It works great. Again, I would not recommend using that

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<v Speaker 1>on your body. I would recommend getting a standing or

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<v Speaker 1>scrubbing implement that is designed for use on the skin

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<v Speaker 1>and use on the feet. What you do is you

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<v Speaker 1>get a stick blender and oh man, but that's not

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<v Speaker 1>to say that that other folks weren't engaging in the

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<v Speaker 1>use of essentially chemical approaches to the cleaning of the skin.

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<v Speaker 1>In the ancient Egyptians made use of soda to clean

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<v Speaker 1>their skin as well as to treat diseases of the skin. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so soda is interesting here because that suggests we're we're

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<v Speaker 1>getting a little bit closer to soap like territories. This

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<v Speaker 1>will make more sense when we explain soapen a bit.

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<v Speaker 1>But but soda, of course is an alkali. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>it's a base, and in certain combinations, in the presence

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<v Speaker 1>of fats and water, this can actually have a lathering

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<v Speaker 1>soap like effect. Yeah. So, so this is a nice

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<v Speaker 1>ancient example. We'll get into some more in a bit.

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<v Speaker 1>But oh, and then another example that growth at all

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<v Speaker 1>point point out fifth century BC. During this time period,

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<v Speaker 1>Herodotus wrote of the priest physicians of the temple of

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<v Speaker 1>Ammon at Karnak in Egypt during the reign of Ramesses.

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<v Speaker 1>This would have been uh eleven thirteen through ten five BC,

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<v Speaker 1>and Herodotus stated that they would quote bathe in cold

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<v Speaker 1>water twice a day and twice a night, and lensed

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<v Speaker 1>their mouths with natron. Now, natron was a mixture of

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<v Speaker 1>sodium bicarbonate and sodium carbonate. That's what you call mummy mouth. Yeah. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>One of my favorite books on the history of hygiene

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<v Speaker 1>is a book titled Clean by Virginia Smith, and that

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<v Speaker 1>she points out that that natron was dissolved in water

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<v Speaker 1>to clean the body, to clean clothes, furniture, and sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>it could be ignited with incense as well. Priest would

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<v Speaker 1>chew it and drink it as a as a cleansing

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<v Speaker 1>as well. So it wasn't just used in the creation

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<v Speaker 1>of mummies. It was like, in a way, this kind

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<v Speaker 1>of uh, this kind of posh, high status chemical for

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<v Speaker 1>for all the you know that all your hygiene needs.

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<v Speaker 1>In a way, it can be like you've got to

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<v Speaker 1>have that mummy mouth. Yeah. Now, I think one of

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<v Speaker 1>the facts that we're getting into here with especially within

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<v Speaker 1>with the Natron example, is that we're dealing with medicine.

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<v Speaker 1>We're dealing with medicinal uses. And that's one of the

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<v Speaker 1>amazing things is when you start looking at some of

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<v Speaker 1>the earth the history of what we think of a soap,

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<v Speaker 1>you're often dealing more specifically with with medical practices and

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<v Speaker 1>sort of the magic of early medicine as opposed to

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<v Speaker 1>just sort of the like we don't think about soap

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<v Speaker 1>as medicine, we don't think about hygiene as medicine. But

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<v Speaker 1>it is, I mean, it is preventative medicine. Uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, quite literally, yeah, totally Now, Other BC treatments

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<v Speaker 1>included um using olive oil on the skin. I mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>that already is something that you know it might apply

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<v Speaker 1>before scraping. Clay and plant ashes as well. During the

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<v Speaker 1>Biblical period we see a form of soap made from

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<v Speaker 1>plant derivatives, generally from salty regions where the plants gathered

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<v Speaker 1>potash and soda, and the Bible actually mentions the washing

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<v Speaker 1>materials bore, bore, it and slig Acadian, Syrian, and Arabic

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<v Speaker 1>languages all include words specific words for soap producing plants.

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<v Speaker 1>Plants that would be you know, would definitely become important

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<v Speaker 1>later are on, if not then in the creation of

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<v Speaker 1>these soap like elements, and plant ash and clay were

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<v Speaker 1>also widely used in the cultures of India, Peru, Chili,

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<v Speaker 1>and Angola. Well, maybe this is a good place to

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<v Speaker 1>stop and explain how soap actually works. But should we

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<v Speaker 1>take a break first? We should, it will be right

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<v Speaker 1>back than alright, we're back, So it's time to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about how soap actually gets things clean. So in a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of cases, of course, we all know that simply

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<v Speaker 1>washing with water can be very effective. If you don't

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<v Speaker 1>have soap, you might as well wash your hands with

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<v Speaker 1>water because that gets a lot of stuff off. Maybe

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<v Speaker 1>not everything, but a lot, right, Yeah, yeah, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>it is again, it's it's often poorly understood by the

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<v Speaker 1>people who use it, but it's highly effective. And actually,

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<v Speaker 1>there was a very interesting passage about what I'm about

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about in the book Until the End of

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<v Speaker 1>Time by Brian Green, a recent guest on Stuff to

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<v Speaker 1>Blow your Mind. The passage highlights the fact that water

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<v Speaker 1>is good for washing things much for the same reason

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<v Speaker 1>that it is the basis for life on Earth. And

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<v Speaker 1>if if that doesn't make any sense, stick with me

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<v Speaker 1>for a second here. So Green is talking about the

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<v Speaker 1>chemical properties of water. He's talking about the fact that

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<v Speaker 1>water is a polar molecule. So you've got a one

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<v Speaker 1>atom of oxygen with two atoms of hydrogen. They're bonded together,

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<v Speaker 1>and in this molecule there is a net negative charge

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<v Speaker 1>at one end, the end where the oxygen atom is,

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<v Speaker 1>and then there's a net positive charge at the other

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<v Speaker 1>ends where the two hydrogen atoms are. And this difference

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<v Speaker 1>in electrical charge across the length of the water molecule

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<v Speaker 1>is essential to its function in the world of biochemistry.

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<v Speaker 1>It's what makes water the molecule of life in a

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<v Speaker 1>universe of death, and so that this distribution of electrical

0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.400
<v Speaker 1>charge across the length of the molecule means that water

0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:58.920
<v Speaker 1>can dissolve almost anything, not anything, but almost anything. The

0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:02.400
<v Speaker 1>oxygen end will bind to almost anything that has even

0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:05.680
<v Speaker 1>a slight positive charge, and the hydrogen tips at the

0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.600
<v Speaker 1>other end will bind to almost anything that has even

0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:12.960
<v Speaker 1>a slight negative charge. And Green rights that quote in tandem,

0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:16.160
<v Speaker 1>the two ends of a water molecule act like charged

0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:20.160
<v Speaker 1>claws that pull apart almost anything that's submerged for a

0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:23.320
<v Speaker 1>sufficient time. So if you are if you're like a

0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:27.200
<v Speaker 1>hardcore soaker when it comes to cleaning the dishes, uh,

0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.080
<v Speaker 1>this is this is a this is a ammunition for

0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:33.199
<v Speaker 1>your defense against the scrubbers. Oh of course, yeah. I

0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:36.080
<v Speaker 1>mean just sitting something in water, Yeah, it will tend

0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:39.079
<v Speaker 1>to just pull things out. And it's funny, because water

0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:42.640
<v Speaker 1>is the fluid of life. We we think of it

0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:46.240
<v Speaker 1>as not something that's uh, you know that rips everything

0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.560
<v Speaker 1>apart at the molecular level. We think of it as

0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:53.080
<v Speaker 1>this you know, this this cleansing, healing kind of liquid, which,

0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:54.880
<v Speaker 1>of course it is to us. We need it to

0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:58.360
<v Speaker 1>live but chemically, what it does and the reason why

0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:00.920
<v Speaker 1>it's so useful to our bodies is that it has

0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:05.199
<v Speaker 1>this power to dissolve, and so in dissolving things. Green

0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.160
<v Speaker 1>gives the example of table salt, a very very common example.

0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:12.040
<v Speaker 1>Table salt is known chemically as sodium chloride. Sodium chloride

0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.440
<v Speaker 1>is a molecule. It's made from one atom of sodium

0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:17.880
<v Speaker 1>and one atom of chlorine, and when you drop crystals

0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:21.280
<v Speaker 1>of table salt into water, the water molecules immediately start

0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.800
<v Speaker 1>ripping them apart and dissolving them. So the oxygen in

0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.280
<v Speaker 1>the H two O snags the positively charged sodium ions,

0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:31.280
<v Speaker 1>and the hydrogen tips of the H two O molecule

0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:35.320
<v Speaker 1>grabbed the negatively charged chlorine ions. But it's not just

0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:37.960
<v Speaker 1>table salt. Water works this way for a huge number

0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:41.520
<v Speaker 1>of chemicals and substances, and it's the reason water is

0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:45.480
<v Speaker 1>good for washing things. Substances previously stuck to the outside

0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.520
<v Speaker 1>of your skin or to the outside of a dish

0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:52.120
<v Speaker 1>or a pan, are grabbed and dissolved by the water

0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.320
<v Speaker 1>and carried away when the water runs off of you

0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:58.400
<v Speaker 1>or off of the dish, onto the ground downstream in

0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:01.000
<v Speaker 1>a river, or down the drain and here's where things

0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:03.440
<v Speaker 1>get really interesting. Uh here, I just want to quote

0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:07.720
<v Speaker 1>directly from Brian Green's book Until the End of Time. Quote, well,

0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.440
<v Speaker 1>beyond its utility and personal hygiene, water's capacity to grab

0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:16.600
<v Speaker 1>hold of and ingest substances is indispensable to life. Cell

0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:21.080
<v Speaker 1>interiors or miniature chemistry labs whose workings require the rapid

0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:26.040
<v Speaker 1>movement of a vast collection of ingredients nutrients in, waste out,

0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:30.920
<v Speaker 1>commingling of chemicals to synthesize substances required for cellular function,

0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:35.760
<v Speaker 1>and so on. Water makes this possible. Water, constituting some

0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:41.080
<v Speaker 1>seventy of a cell's mass, is life's ferrying fluid. Nobel

0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:46.000
<v Speaker 1>Laureate Albert's zent Georgy summarized it eloquently. Quote water is

0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:50.000
<v Speaker 1>life's matter and matrix, mother and medium. There is no

0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:53.840
<v Speaker 1>life without water. Life could leave the ocean when it

0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:57.160
<v Speaker 1>learned to grow a skin, a bag in which to

0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:00.520
<v Speaker 1>take the water with it. We are still living in water,

0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:05.120
<v Speaker 1>having the water now inside. Oh wow, that's beautiful. Yeah,

0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:09.520
<v Speaker 1>sloshy water bag creatures that we are. It's true, we're

0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:14.040
<v Speaker 1>bladders of life waddling around in the desert above. But

0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:18.240
<v Speaker 1>so this is amazing. It's basically the same reason that

0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:21.560
<v Speaker 1>water is good for washing your hands and the reason

0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:25.360
<v Speaker 1>that astrobiologists are looking for signs of water on Mars.

0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:28.400
<v Speaker 1>But while water is an amazing solvent and good for

0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:30.720
<v Speaker 1>washing all kinds of stuff off your hands, there are

0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:34.360
<v Speaker 1>some cases where it's hygiene powers fall short. You of

0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:36.680
<v Speaker 1>course know about this if you've ever tried to use

0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:40.960
<v Speaker 1>water alone to wash an oily, greasy substance off your

0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:43.440
<v Speaker 1>hands or off of a dish in the kitchen. So

0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:45.960
<v Speaker 1>so you've got a frying pans covered in you know,

0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:49.640
<v Speaker 1>residue of butter or something, and you try to run

0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:52.360
<v Speaker 1>tap water over it to wash it off. Does it work?

0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:55.800
<v Speaker 1>Of course not right, Like the water will maybe dislodge

0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:59.760
<v Speaker 1>little bits of the butter residue, but mostly the oil

0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:02.160
<v Speaker 1>on the surface of the pan will continue to stick

0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:05.119
<v Speaker 1>and the water will kind of rush overtop it, or

0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:07.320
<v Speaker 1>at best it will sort of push waves of the

0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.680
<v Speaker 1>oil around through force. Now I do use that as

0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:13.040
<v Speaker 1>an example because I know everybody has done it. But

0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.119
<v Speaker 1>if you remember from our fat Bergs episode, please do

0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:18.960
<v Speaker 1>not wash oil and grease down the drain lest you

0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:21.520
<v Speaker 1>begin to make a soap dragon down the sewers below us.

0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:25.400
<v Speaker 1>But here's another example. I'm sure everybody will be able

0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:29.480
<v Speaker 1>to identify with Robert he ever put lotion on your hands,

0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.040
<v Speaker 1>like a sort of oil based or kind of greasy lotion,

0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:34.639
<v Speaker 1>and then you need to wash your hands. You go

0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:37.679
<v Speaker 1>and wash your hands with just water without using soap.

0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:40.760
<v Speaker 1>What happens there? Oh? You just you get with these

0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:44.920
<v Speaker 1>least slippery hands. It's like, now it's like lotion plus one,

0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.720
<v Speaker 1>right exactly, The lotion does not get washed off. You

0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:52.000
<v Speaker 1>have to use soap in order to get lotion grease

0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:54.640
<v Speaker 1>off of your hands, and your hands will stay greasy

0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:57.880
<v Speaker 1>no matter how much water you run over them, right, Yeah, Like, yeah,

0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:00.320
<v Speaker 1>I mean obviously there's you know, a sort amount of

0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:03.000
<v Speaker 1>physical removal was possible. Generally, what I do is like

0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.159
<v Speaker 1>I I washing off my hands rel quick, and then

0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:06.920
<v Speaker 1>are like, oh, I had a lotion on and now

0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:08.439
<v Speaker 1>I kind of have to use like a hand towel

0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:13.080
<v Speaker 1>that to physically remove some of the lotion water mixture. Right.

0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:17.520
<v Speaker 1>Uh So, water by itself fails at washing away lipids,

0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:21.880
<v Speaker 1>lipids or a class of substances including oils, fats, waxes,

0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.320
<v Speaker 1>and steroids. And this is because simply oil and water

0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.320
<v Speaker 1>do not mix easily, which is in turn due to

0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.159
<v Speaker 1>the chemical properties of the two substances. So we were

0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:34.280
<v Speaker 1>talking about how water is a polar molecule. It's got

0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:37.960
<v Speaker 1>different electric charges at each end. And because of these

0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:40.920
<v Speaker 1>different electric charges at each end of the water molecule,

0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:45.200
<v Speaker 1>water links up with itself very easily through a series

0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:48.199
<v Speaker 1>of connections called hydrogen bonds. So you can kind of

0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.600
<v Speaker 1>think of the analogy of legos. Right the top of

0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.480
<v Speaker 1>one block just very easily snaps onto the bottom and

0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:56.320
<v Speaker 1>the next. Now, oils, on the other hand, are made

0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:59.880
<v Speaker 1>up of non polar molecules, so they do not easily

0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.240
<v Speaker 1>break through these bonds and link up with water molecules

0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:06.760
<v Speaker 1>to form new compounds or dissolve into the water. So

0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:09.200
<v Speaker 1>you say, say you take a jar and you put

0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:11.680
<v Speaker 1>some oil and some water in the jar together, and

0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:15.000
<v Speaker 1>then you shake it up really hard. If if you

0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:17.800
<v Speaker 1>shake the jar like that, droplets of oil will be

0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:22.080
<v Speaker 1>dispersed by force throughout the water. But these molecules of

0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:25.680
<v Speaker 1>oil will after So first they will disrupt the hydrogen

0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:28.719
<v Speaker 1>bonds between the water molecules. They'll get kind of dispersed throughout,

0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:31.359
<v Speaker 1>but they won't be able to form bonds with the

0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:36.359
<v Speaker 1>water themselves, and instead the disrupted water molecules I was

0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:39.600
<v Speaker 1>reading about this, they they form a kind of molecular

0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:44.159
<v Speaker 1>cage around the oil molecules. Uh. And this cage is

0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:47.119
<v Speaker 1>this kind of almost crystalline type structure known as a

0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:52.240
<v Speaker 1>class rate. And this cage actually represents a temporary decrease

0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:55.680
<v Speaker 1>in the entropy of the water. So by forming these

0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:59.520
<v Speaker 1>orderly structures around these droplets of oil suspended in the water,

0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:03.640
<v Speaker 1>you are decreasing entropy. And we know that the universe

0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:07.199
<v Speaker 1>does not tolerate decreases an entropy forever. The universe always

0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:11.520
<v Speaker 1>wants to increase the entropy again. So gradually the mixed

0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:15.359
<v Speaker 1>mass of water and oil manages to increase its entropy

0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:20.400
<v Speaker 1>by spontaneously bumping around and rearranging until the oil molecules

0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:24.080
<v Speaker 1>join up with one another into a solid mass and

0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:27.399
<v Speaker 1>separate from the water to float on its surface. And

0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:29.439
<v Speaker 1>of course, the reason that oil floats on top of

0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:32.119
<v Speaker 1>water when it's separated is that oil is less dense

0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:35.080
<v Speaker 1>than water. But for hygiene purposes, I guess all you

0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:37.720
<v Speaker 1>have to remember is the short version that oil doesn't

0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:41.399
<v Speaker 1>naturally dissolve in water like so many other substances do.

0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:44.000
<v Speaker 1>And this is why water alone is not very good

0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:47.400
<v Speaker 1>at dissolving and washing away oil or fat based substances.

0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:50.679
<v Speaker 1>And this, of course is where soap comes in. Here's

0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:53.040
<v Speaker 1>where we all know from experience you can't get the water,

0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:54.760
<v Speaker 1>you can't get the lotion off your hands or the

0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:57.080
<v Speaker 1>grease off your hands with water alone, but if you

0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:00.240
<v Speaker 1>use some soap, it comes right off. Another example comes

0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:02.760
<v Speaker 1>to mind here is of course, with our hair. I

0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:07.720
<v Speaker 1>think if you've ever experimented with just rigorously shampooing versus

0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:11.240
<v Speaker 1>going no pooh as they say it, if they can't

0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:15.200
<v Speaker 1>um that you can definitely observe this in action. Uh

0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:17.920
<v Speaker 1>so I feel the oils in your hair? Yeah, Like

0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:21.640
<v Speaker 1>like I will generally go no shampoo for um for

0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:24.160
<v Speaker 1>like a few weeks at a time, and I will

0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:27.240
<v Speaker 1>my hair, doesn't It varies from person to person, you know,

0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:29.960
<v Speaker 1>depending on you know your particular hair, and you know

0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:32.520
<v Speaker 1>in a particular oil and how it builds up. But

0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:34.680
<v Speaker 1>with my own hair, like a little bit of oil

0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:37.760
<v Speaker 1>will build up in my hair, will will look tolerable

0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:39.400
<v Speaker 1>and um, you know, I won't have to do much

0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:41.240
<v Speaker 1>with it. But then eventually I'll come a point where

0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:44.359
<v Speaker 1>I start feeling a little oily, and therefore I bust

0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:47.320
<v Speaker 1>out the shampoo, and when I do, all the oil

0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:49.879
<v Speaker 1>is gone. And now and then I just look like

0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:52.160
<v Speaker 1>like a troll doll. You know, I said, Now there's

0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:54.159
<v Speaker 1>no oil in my hair at all, and it's just

0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:57.359
<v Speaker 1>this poofy uh blonde mess. But I bring this up.

0:21:57.400 --> 0:21:59.600
<v Speaker 1>There's just an example of you know, this is a

0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:02.920
<v Speaker 1>way to observe that water. Even a lengthy shower, a

0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:06.880
<v Speaker 1>lengthy blast of of hot, steamy water is not going

0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:09.800
<v Speaker 1>to get that oil out of your hair um, even

0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:12.200
<v Speaker 1>if it's just day after day, twice a day even,

0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:16.880
<v Speaker 1>uh not until you add that magical soap, right, Yeah,

0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:19.800
<v Speaker 1>the oil just does not come away in the water.

0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:23.600
<v Speaker 1>So soap is made by Classically, it's made by combining

0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:26.720
<v Speaker 1>a fatty acid such as an oil or an animal fat.

0:22:26.960 --> 0:22:29.720
<v Speaker 1>You know, you can use like a animal tallow or

0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:33.320
<v Speaker 1>something with an alkali such as you would naturally find,

0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:36.479
<v Speaker 1>say in the ashes from a wood fire, or today

0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:40.280
<v Speaker 1>in a strong synthesized base like a lie uh so.

0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:44.600
<v Speaker 1>At the molecular level, soap is a pin shaped molecule

0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:49.240
<v Speaker 1>that plays well with both water and lipids. Its tail

0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:54.440
<v Speaker 1>is hydrophobic, meaning it doesn't like water. It avoids water molecules,

0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:57.760
<v Speaker 1>and it forms a bond with fats and oils. Meanwhile,

0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:01.560
<v Speaker 1>its head is hydrophilic, meaning likes water. It bonds with

0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:04.879
<v Speaker 1>water easily, and it becomes suspended in a solution of

0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:08.400
<v Speaker 1>water and gets washed away when the water is rinsed off. Now,

0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:11.639
<v Speaker 1>often what happens after a good lathering is that soap

0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:15.240
<v Speaker 1>molecules will form a kind of bubble structure called a

0:23:15.320 --> 0:23:20.200
<v Speaker 1>mice cell around an oily contaminant, with their hydrophobic tails

0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:24.080
<v Speaker 1>pointing inward and and and snagging onto the trapped particle,

0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:28.359
<v Speaker 1>and their hydrophilic heads pointing outward and being carried around

0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:31.560
<v Speaker 1>by the water. So you can imagine each soap molecule

0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:35.920
<v Speaker 1>as a kind of a combination grasping claw at one

0:23:36.040 --> 0:23:39.360
<v Speaker 1>end and parachute on the other end. One end grabs

0:23:39.400 --> 0:23:42.000
<v Speaker 1>hold of the contaminant and the other end it catches

0:23:42.080 --> 0:23:45.359
<v Speaker 1>the fluid current and is easily carried away. But I

0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:49.359
<v Speaker 1>should add that the hygienic properties of soap don't end there,

0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:53.200
<v Speaker 1>just at the ability to uh latch onto these lipid

0:23:53.240 --> 0:23:55.480
<v Speaker 1>molecules and carry them away in the flow of water.

0:23:56.200 --> 0:23:58.880
<v Speaker 1>In addition to making it easy to wash lipid based

0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:01.800
<v Speaker 1>dirt off of surfaces is like your hands. Soap is

0:24:01.840 --> 0:24:06.800
<v Speaker 1>also directly lethal to many kinds of germs, including many

0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:10.719
<v Speaker 1>kinds of viruses and bacteria. A lot of viruses and bacteria,

0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:15.840
<v Speaker 1>including the novel coronavirus responsible for COVID nineteen. They're protected

0:24:15.960 --> 0:24:19.880
<v Speaker 1>by an outer layer that can be disrupted by soap.

0:24:20.440 --> 0:24:24.399
<v Speaker 1>The fat loving ends of soap molecules kind of jam

0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:28.480
<v Speaker 1>themselves into the lipid by layer on the outside of

0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:31.200
<v Speaker 1>the virus. I've seen it compared by some experts to

0:24:31.400 --> 0:24:36.000
<v Speaker 1>like little chemical crowbars, just stabbing into the lipid outer

0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:40.200
<v Speaker 1>membrane of the of the virus and breaking that outer

0:24:40.280 --> 0:24:43.680
<v Speaker 1>membrane up. And essentially what this does is it disembowels

0:24:43.720 --> 0:24:46.080
<v Speaker 1>the virus, so it's guts spill out all over the

0:24:46.080 --> 0:24:49.080
<v Speaker 1>place and then they get washed away harmlessly and my

0:24:49.200 --> 0:24:52.679
<v Speaker 1>cells whenever you rense your hands so As an added benefit,

0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:55.080
<v Speaker 1>the soap not only makes it much easier to get

0:24:55.119 --> 0:24:58.080
<v Speaker 1>these uh, these sticky little germs off of your hands,

0:24:58.320 --> 0:25:01.800
<v Speaker 1>it also just kills of germs. Not every germ is

0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:06.280
<v Speaker 1>is killed by soap, but lots are, including the coronavirus yeah,

0:25:06.320 --> 0:25:08.439
<v Speaker 1>I think it was. Maybe it was the growth article

0:25:08.560 --> 0:25:11.159
<v Speaker 1>that I referred to earlier. The author's pointed out that

0:25:11.240 --> 0:25:13.159
<v Speaker 1>you know, we have this this this you know, this

0:25:13.359 --> 0:25:16.560
<v Speaker 1>safe mundane, this tame feeling about our soap. Soap is

0:25:16.640 --> 0:25:21.080
<v Speaker 1>gentle um, but for most most organisms that we're dealing with,

0:25:21.160 --> 0:25:24.480
<v Speaker 1>soap is a destroyer. It is just a a a

0:25:24.680 --> 0:25:28.320
<v Speaker 1>brutal and destructive weapon. Well, yeah, you don't want to

0:25:28.359 --> 0:25:31.280
<v Speaker 1>have your your lipids dissolved, and hey, you know what,

0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:33.320
<v Speaker 1>you can actually start to feel a bit of this

0:25:33.440 --> 0:25:37.760
<v Speaker 1>yourself if you say, if you have washed your hands

0:25:37.800 --> 0:25:40.240
<v Speaker 1>too much, if you've been like cooking all day or

0:25:40.280 --> 0:25:42.760
<v Speaker 1>something and you're repeatedly having to wash your hands over

0:25:42.800 --> 0:25:45.440
<v Speaker 1>and over when you go in between tasks, you may

0:25:45.480 --> 0:25:49.359
<v Speaker 1>start to notice with with really frequent hand washing, that

0:25:49.520 --> 0:25:54.280
<v Speaker 1>the cumulative effects of soap on your skin do become abrasive. Right, Yeah, Yeah,

0:25:54.320 --> 0:25:56.760
<v Speaker 1>if you say, helped your husband kill a king or

0:25:56.800 --> 0:25:59.440
<v Speaker 1>something to that effect, and washing your hands a lot, yeah,

0:25:59.480 --> 0:26:03.080
<v Speaker 1>you'll notice that this is starting to irritate the outer

0:26:03.200 --> 0:26:05.920
<v Speaker 1>layer of my body. I mean, I think a lot

0:26:05.960 --> 0:26:08.800
<v Speaker 1>of what's going on there is that is that natural

0:26:08.880 --> 0:26:12.120
<v Speaker 1>lipids in your skin oils that are a healthy. Part

0:26:12.200 --> 0:26:14.720
<v Speaker 1>of what your skin normally does to protect itself are

0:26:14.800 --> 0:26:17.760
<v Speaker 1>removed also when you wash your hands like that. Uh,

0:26:17.800 --> 0:26:20.240
<v Speaker 1>And if you just keep removing all that stuff, it

0:26:20.280 --> 0:26:22.760
<v Speaker 1>can kind of dry your skin out and irritate it.

0:26:23.119 --> 0:26:26.000
<v Speaker 1>But I do want to say one more thing about

0:26:26.000 --> 0:26:28.880
<v Speaker 1>hand washing with soap, which is that I looked into

0:26:28.880 --> 0:26:32.720
<v Speaker 1>this the question of time, because we've all been told

0:26:32.760 --> 0:26:34.480
<v Speaker 1>a bunch of times. Now, you know you need to

0:26:34.520 --> 0:26:38.440
<v Speaker 1>wash your hands with soap for at least twenty seconds, right,

0:26:39.040 --> 0:26:41.200
<v Speaker 1>And maybe a lot of people think, ah, no, way,

0:26:41.240 --> 0:26:43.560
<v Speaker 1>you actually need to do it for twenty whole seconds, right.

0:26:43.600 --> 0:26:46.160
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you just told me that that soap. Soap

0:26:46.240 --> 0:26:49.479
<v Speaker 1>can be lethal too, lots of germs. So basically, if

0:26:49.480 --> 0:26:51.800
<v Speaker 1>you get soap all over your hands, you're good, Right,

0:26:51.840 --> 0:26:53.359
<v Speaker 1>You just get the soap on there and then you

0:26:53.440 --> 0:26:55.680
<v Speaker 1>rinse it off and then you should be fine. That

0:26:55.680 --> 0:26:58.199
<v Speaker 1>that is not the case. It really does appear that

0:26:58.320 --> 0:27:01.760
<v Speaker 1>time is a factor allowing soap to do its work.

0:27:02.280 --> 0:27:04.560
<v Speaker 1>I was looking at a couple of studies that seemed

0:27:04.560 --> 0:27:07.080
<v Speaker 1>to be an agreement that longer really is better, and

0:27:07.119 --> 0:27:10.320
<v Speaker 1>the difference between twenty seconds of soapy washing and five

0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:13.879
<v Speaker 1>seconds of soapy washing is pretty huge. I love how

0:27:14.000 --> 0:27:17.320
<v Speaker 1>especially early on, to really get this message across. Uh,

0:27:17.359 --> 0:27:20.040
<v Speaker 1>there were all these different versions of hey, you can

0:27:20.080 --> 0:27:23.560
<v Speaker 1>remember how long twenty seconds is by singing this song

0:27:23.680 --> 0:27:26.200
<v Speaker 1>or this chorus from this song. My God, so many

0:27:26.280 --> 0:27:29.480
<v Speaker 1>articles like this, which it's like, is it that hard

0:27:29.520 --> 0:27:32.240
<v Speaker 1>to know how long twenty seconds is? I? I know

0:27:32.400 --> 0:27:34.960
<v Speaker 1>that was my my My initial thought was like, I

0:27:34.960 --> 0:27:37.160
<v Speaker 1>don't really need to sing the happy Birthday song. Don't

0:27:37.160 --> 0:27:38.640
<v Speaker 1>know how long twenty seconds is? I can just count

0:27:38.640 --> 0:27:41.000
<v Speaker 1>to twenty. But then I realized, well, no, this is

0:27:41.160 --> 0:27:43.040
<v Speaker 1>this is as much about getting the message out and

0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:46.399
<v Speaker 1>making the message more fun as anything, and if it

0:27:46.440 --> 0:27:50.160
<v Speaker 1>helps in that regard, then yeah, let's let's keep reminding

0:27:50.160 --> 0:27:53.639
<v Speaker 1>everybody which songs match up with twenty seconds. I like

0:27:53.720 --> 0:27:55.840
<v Speaker 1>the way of doing it is like expressing it in

0:27:55.960 --> 0:27:59.600
<v Speaker 1>terms of the units of Ronnie Cox's monologue at the

0:27:59.680 --> 0:28:02.800
<v Speaker 1>end of Total Recall, how many Ronnie Cox monologues do

0:28:02.840 --> 0:28:06.040
<v Speaker 1>you need to do home in time for corn flakes?

0:28:06.560 --> 0:28:09.479
<v Speaker 1>Is a monologue? Or no, no, no, I don't know

0:28:09.520 --> 0:28:11.560
<v Speaker 1>it actually, but I should time it out and then

0:28:11.600 --> 0:28:13.520
<v Speaker 1>you can know, like, Okay, I need to do it

0:28:13.560 --> 0:28:15.480
<v Speaker 1>one and a half times, or I just I need

0:28:15.520 --> 0:28:17.240
<v Speaker 1>to go two thirds of the way through. I haven't

0:28:17.240 --> 0:28:20.920
<v Speaker 1>done the math myself, but some enterprising listener get on that.

0:28:21.359 --> 0:28:25.600
<v Speaker 1>I bet Conner's monologue from Highlander two is about twenty seconds.

0:28:26.240 --> 0:28:29.560
<v Speaker 1>Oh okay. Most people live a full measure of life,

0:28:29.680 --> 0:28:32.720
<v Speaker 1>but most people just watch it slowly drip away. But

0:28:32.760 --> 0:28:34.960
<v Speaker 1>if you can summon it all up at one time,

0:28:34.960 --> 0:28:41.000
<v Speaker 1>in one place, you can accomplish something glorious. What was that? Maybe? Yeah,

0:28:41.000 --> 0:28:44.800
<v Speaker 1>I better do it twice just to be able to say. Alright,

0:28:44.840 --> 0:28:47.120
<v Speaker 1>on that note, let's take another break. But when we

0:28:47.160 --> 0:28:50.280
<v Speaker 1>come back, we will dive back into the history of

0:28:50.320 --> 0:28:54.200
<v Speaker 1>soap and feel around in the darkness of history for

0:28:54.320 --> 0:29:01.000
<v Speaker 1>its inventor. Alright, we're back, all right. So we're trying

0:29:01.040 --> 0:29:04.000
<v Speaker 1>to discuss now the question of who invented soap And

0:29:04.200 --> 0:29:05.840
<v Speaker 1>this is not going to be one of those cases

0:29:05.840 --> 0:29:09.040
<v Speaker 1>where it was Jonathan Soap or Elizabeth Soap working in

0:29:09.080 --> 0:29:12.720
<v Speaker 1>their their home laboratory. Uh. We don't know the actual

0:29:12.880 --> 0:29:15.880
<v Speaker 1>inventor of soap, but we have some very interesting clues

0:29:16.280 --> 0:29:19.720
<v Speaker 1>at a more sort of civilizational or cultural level about

0:29:20.040 --> 0:29:23.960
<v Speaker 1>wind soap enter the history of humanity. Yes, now, I

0:29:24.000 --> 0:29:26.120
<v Speaker 1>love that you've brought up the idea like the the

0:29:26.240 --> 0:29:29.240
<v Speaker 1>handy and and just too good to be true idea

0:29:29.280 --> 0:29:31.840
<v Speaker 1>of William Soap having invented soap or he did soap

0:29:31.920 --> 0:29:35.080
<v Speaker 1>having invented soap, Because the first example I want to

0:29:35.080 --> 0:29:37.480
<v Speaker 1>talk about here is kind of a version of that.

0:29:37.600 --> 0:29:39.760
<v Speaker 1>It is it does not seem to be a true

0:29:39.760 --> 0:29:42.400
<v Speaker 1>account of the history of soap. It is it is

0:29:42.480 --> 0:29:45.680
<v Speaker 1>too it is too perfect. And but it's a store

0:29:45.760 --> 0:29:50.200
<v Speaker 1>origin story that is often repeated on say, websites about soap,

0:29:50.440 --> 0:29:52.160
<v Speaker 1>Like if there's a soap company and they have an

0:29:52.160 --> 0:29:55.440
<v Speaker 1>about page, they might want to those soap facts. Yeah,

0:29:55.600 --> 0:29:57.960
<v Speaker 1>you might run across this one, and that is that

0:29:58.120 --> 0:30:02.440
<v Speaker 1>soap originates, uh, on the mountain of Sappo. Okay, tell

0:30:02.480 --> 0:30:05.120
<v Speaker 1>me about Mount Sappo. Okay, that's that's Sappo s A

0:30:05.240 --> 0:30:07.400
<v Speaker 1>p O. You know it sounds like soap. We're already

0:30:07.400 --> 0:30:10.920
<v Speaker 1>basically there. It's the same letters rearranged. So the story

0:30:11.040 --> 0:30:12.680
<v Speaker 1>here and again you may have heard it is that

0:30:12.800 --> 0:30:17.240
<v Speaker 1>soap making began three thousand years ago on Mount Sappo

0:30:17.360 --> 0:30:21.240
<v Speaker 1>near Rome. The ideas that animal sacrifices were made to

0:30:21.280 --> 0:30:25.160
<v Speaker 1>the gods there, and streams of melted fat and ashes

0:30:25.280 --> 0:30:28.880
<v Speaker 1>dribbled and dripped from the altar, and this mixture made

0:30:28.880 --> 0:30:32.040
<v Speaker 1>its way down into the to the clay ground beneath,

0:30:32.360 --> 0:30:37.240
<v Speaker 1>and here washer women learned that the resulting substance animal fat,

0:30:37.520 --> 0:30:41.400
<v Speaker 1>ash and some clay. It resulted in something that could

0:30:41.440 --> 0:30:44.640
<v Speaker 1>be used in the cleaning of garments. This sounds like

0:30:45.560 --> 0:30:48.920
<v Speaker 1>sort of like one of those like evolution explanation narratives

0:30:48.960 --> 0:30:51.400
<v Speaker 1>that people sometimes come up with. It's not based on

0:30:51.520 --> 0:30:53.800
<v Speaker 1>any evidence at all, but it's just like, you know,

0:30:54.000 --> 0:30:56.560
<v Speaker 1>one time there was a monkey and it and you

0:30:56.600 --> 0:30:58.800
<v Speaker 1>know it needed a rock to do this, and so

0:30:58.880 --> 0:31:01.720
<v Speaker 1>this is what happened. The stories like this are fun

0:31:01.800 --> 0:31:03.880
<v Speaker 1>to come up with because you can try to imagine

0:31:03.880 --> 0:31:06.760
<v Speaker 1>what's plausible. Though I think we can interrogate the plausibility

0:31:06.800 --> 0:31:09.440
<v Speaker 1>of this one based on things we actually know about

0:31:09.600 --> 0:31:13.120
<v Speaker 1>Roman sacrifices and stuff. But but you can try to

0:31:13.160 --> 0:31:15.560
<v Speaker 1>come up with a story about what's plausible, even if

0:31:15.600 --> 0:31:18.000
<v Speaker 1>you don't have direct evidence for it. But coming up

0:31:18.000 --> 0:31:20.040
<v Speaker 1>with a plausible story, as we know, does not mean

0:31:20.080 --> 0:31:22.560
<v Speaker 1>that you've discovered where something actually came from. And in

0:31:22.600 --> 0:31:26.000
<v Speaker 1>this case, we pretty much know this story is wrong, right, Yeah,

0:31:26.080 --> 0:31:28.800
<v Speaker 1>Despite the fact that it's handy, and it's it's clean.

0:31:29.400 --> 0:31:35.000
<v Speaker 1>Basically a slice of false etymology here, but I guess

0:31:35.040 --> 0:31:37.560
<v Speaker 1>the basically, yeah, when you start looking at the details

0:31:37.560 --> 0:31:38.800
<v Speaker 1>of it, Yes, this is the sort of thing that

0:31:38.880 --> 0:31:42.000
<v Speaker 1>could have happened. Yeah, this story, as we've related it

0:31:42.040 --> 0:31:45.600
<v Speaker 1>sounds plausible. But first of all, there's no mention of

0:31:45.640 --> 0:31:48.640
<v Speaker 1>it in classical mythology. And it's also been pointed out

0:31:48.760 --> 0:31:51.360
<v Speaker 1>that the manner of animal sacrifice that was practiced by

0:31:51.400 --> 0:31:55.240
<v Speaker 1>the Romans would not have created vast amounts of soap um.

0:31:55.440 --> 0:31:56.640
<v Speaker 1>And I believe a lot of this had to do

0:31:56.720 --> 0:31:59.040
<v Speaker 1>with just like how much of the meat was actually

0:31:59.080 --> 0:32:01.400
<v Speaker 1>like how much of the the animal is actually burnt,

0:32:01.640 --> 0:32:04.160
<v Speaker 1>and how much of it was sort of taken apart

0:32:04.160 --> 0:32:07.200
<v Speaker 1>for other uses. Right, So the chemical reasoning here would

0:32:07.200 --> 0:32:10.320
<v Speaker 1>be that you've got animal sacrifices, animal bodies being burned,

0:32:10.680 --> 0:32:12.560
<v Speaker 1>and there's a lot of fat on them, and the

0:32:12.560 --> 0:32:15.640
<v Speaker 1>fat is just rendering out as the animal is being burned,

0:32:15.640 --> 0:32:19.000
<v Speaker 1>and it's pouring off into this area where there's also

0:32:19.200 --> 0:32:22.240
<v Speaker 1>ash in the in the pit from the fire where

0:32:22.240 --> 0:32:25.080
<v Speaker 1>the animals being burned. And of course, as I mentioned earlier,

0:32:25.440 --> 0:32:28.320
<v Speaker 1>soap is made generally from a combination of lipids like

0:32:28.400 --> 0:32:31.920
<v Speaker 1>animal fats and a base like ashes. Ashes can work

0:32:31.960 --> 0:32:35.240
<v Speaker 1>for that. So you combine fats and ashes and and

0:32:35.240 --> 0:32:38.680
<v Speaker 1>and water, and then you can basically have something like

0:32:38.720 --> 0:32:41.920
<v Speaker 1>a crude or rudimentary soap. So you can imagine something

0:32:41.960 --> 0:32:44.880
<v Speaker 1>like this happening. But one criticism I was looking at

0:32:44.960 --> 0:32:48.240
<v Speaker 1>was that, uh, apparently in Roman animal sacrifices, you know,

0:32:48.280 --> 0:32:50.760
<v Speaker 1>they take off most of the usable fat. It was like,

0:32:51.200 --> 0:32:53.600
<v Speaker 1>it was like if you could, if you could do

0:32:53.720 --> 0:32:55.680
<v Speaker 1>something with the fat, they weren't going to burn that

0:32:55.760 --> 0:32:58.240
<v Speaker 1>on the altar. Yeah, they were. They were too practical

0:32:58.360 --> 0:33:02.080
<v Speaker 1>for that. Uh. Yeah. Basically this is an origin story,

0:33:02.120 --> 0:33:04.960
<v Speaker 1>a proposed origin story for soap. That would it say

0:33:04.960 --> 0:33:08.640
<v Speaker 1>that soap is essentially a byproduct, and I guess like

0:33:08.720 --> 0:33:11.520
<v Speaker 1>basically you would need enough of that byproduct to be

0:33:11.640 --> 0:33:14.400
<v Speaker 1>produced for people to realize that it had some sort

0:33:14.400 --> 0:33:17.959
<v Speaker 1>of a useful property to it. Um Also, did we

0:33:18.000 --> 0:33:21.680
<v Speaker 1>mention that there is no Mount Tappo that's another place. Yeah,

0:33:21.960 --> 0:33:24.560
<v Speaker 1>there's no, there's no Mount Tappo, so we can't even

0:33:24.600 --> 0:33:27.480
<v Speaker 1>identify it on on a map. Or again, there's no

0:33:27.560 --> 0:33:31.240
<v Speaker 1>writings about it in the ancient traditions. So it seems

0:33:31.360 --> 0:33:35.000
<v Speaker 1>that there's not much evidence to really back this up.

0:33:35.080 --> 0:33:39.640
<v Speaker 1>It seems to be an altogether invented origin story, perhaps

0:33:39.680 --> 0:33:42.600
<v Speaker 1>even a straight up hoax. There's another reason, though, I

0:33:42.640 --> 0:33:45.000
<v Speaker 1>think that's a very good argument that this is not

0:33:45.120 --> 0:33:47.800
<v Speaker 1>actually the origin of soap, which is that we've got

0:33:47.920 --> 0:33:50.600
<v Speaker 1>literary references to soap that we'll get to in just

0:33:50.640 --> 0:33:53.240
<v Speaker 1>a little bit that are actually older than this story

0:33:53.680 --> 0:33:57.160
<v Speaker 1>alleges for the for the creation of soap. Yeah, exactly,

0:33:57.160 --> 0:33:58.360
<v Speaker 1>And I think that's going to be one of the

0:33:58.480 --> 0:34:01.640
<v Speaker 1>key factors here. Now, I do have to say it's

0:34:01.680 --> 0:34:05.400
<v Speaker 1>it's certainly possible and within like generally within the history

0:34:05.600 --> 0:34:10.080
<v Speaker 1>of of humanity that things get invented and reinvented, that

0:34:10.200 --> 0:34:14.160
<v Speaker 1>the basic chemical properties in one like medicinal concoction in

0:34:14.239 --> 0:34:17.600
<v Speaker 1>one culture. Uh, you know, that it gets reinvented somewhere else,

0:34:18.200 --> 0:34:21.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, accidentally or with some tinkering in another culture.

0:34:21.560 --> 0:34:23.759
<v Speaker 1>So that sort of thing is still possible, and I

0:34:23.800 --> 0:34:25.359
<v Speaker 1>guess we have to keep that in mind. But in

0:34:25.440 --> 0:34:27.719
<v Speaker 1>terms of saying where did it come from? When was

0:34:27.760 --> 0:34:30.879
<v Speaker 1>the first soap born to us? It definitely was not

0:34:31.080 --> 0:34:34.279
<v Speaker 1>born on this Mount Sappo three thousand years ago. Uh,

0:34:34.760 --> 0:34:39.040
<v Speaker 1>stuff that we can pretty accurately say is soap predates

0:34:39.040 --> 0:34:41.879
<v Speaker 1>it by quite a bit. Okay, I got a question. Yes,

0:34:42.160 --> 0:34:45.239
<v Speaker 1>we love to hear from Plenty on ancient substances. Does

0:34:45.280 --> 0:34:47.920
<v Speaker 1>Plenty of the elder right at all of soap? Oh?

0:34:47.960 --> 0:34:50.480
<v Speaker 1>He certainly does. Yeah, you know, you know Plenty is

0:34:50.480 --> 0:34:53.120
<v Speaker 1>going to talk about soap if it if it is

0:34:53.160 --> 0:34:57.080
<v Speaker 1>it all around. Now, he does not mention mount sappo,

0:34:57.239 --> 0:34:59.959
<v Speaker 1>which I think is another uh, you know, key fact

0:35:00.040 --> 0:35:02.279
<v Speaker 1>to keep in mind and certainly adds to our our

0:35:02.320 --> 0:35:04.359
<v Speaker 1>heap of evidence against the idea of that being an

0:35:04.360 --> 0:35:07.520
<v Speaker 1>accurate story at all. But he does mention the word

0:35:07.600 --> 0:35:13.120
<v Speaker 1>sappo as something the Galls used in their hair. And indeed,

0:35:13.200 --> 0:35:15.880
<v Speaker 1>there is another story that you sometimes come across, and

0:35:15.880 --> 0:35:18.759
<v Speaker 1>that's the idea that, uh that that you had a

0:35:18.800 --> 0:35:22.959
<v Speaker 1>man in Gall discovering the properties of this sappo when

0:35:23.000 --> 0:35:26.240
<v Speaker 1>his hair dressing of goat oil and beech tree ash

0:35:26.520 --> 0:35:29.920
<v Speaker 1>got soaked in a rainstorm and formed a nice frothy lad.

0:35:31.520 --> 0:35:33.399
<v Speaker 1>Now that that too, I don't know. That may be

0:35:33.840 --> 0:35:37.239
<v Speaker 1>an example that's partially invented just because it's sounds. It's fun, right,

0:35:37.280 --> 0:35:40.120
<v Speaker 1>It's like, oh, by accident, my hair treatment has turned

0:35:40.120 --> 0:35:43.520
<v Speaker 1>into soap. But but soap does seem to come from

0:35:43.520 --> 0:35:47.520
<v Speaker 1>either the gall world SAPPO or from the Germanics SIPA

0:35:48.520 --> 0:35:51.920
<v Speaker 1>based on the sources I was looking at. Um, there

0:35:51.960 --> 0:35:54.960
<v Speaker 1>are a couple of authors Conkole and Rasmussen, and I'm

0:35:55.000 --> 0:35:57.680
<v Speaker 1>going to cite their full article, uh, just in a

0:35:57.680 --> 0:36:00.600
<v Speaker 1>little bit here. Uh. They mentioned that a soap in

0:36:00.640 --> 0:36:05.680
<v Speaker 1>particular was probably tinged with plants to dye hair, and

0:36:05.760 --> 0:36:09.240
<v Speaker 1>this was then imported to Rome because Roman women really

0:36:09.280 --> 0:36:12.839
<v Speaker 1>coveted what they described as red gold coloration of the hair.

0:36:13.320 --> 0:36:16.000
<v Speaker 1>So we're imagining some sort of soap like hair treatment

0:36:16.400 --> 0:36:19.719
<v Speaker 1>that that is used to impart die to human hair.

0:36:20.200 --> 0:36:23.839
<v Speaker 1>And then yeah, it becomes a possible that people realize, oh,

0:36:23.920 --> 0:36:27.279
<v Speaker 1>this actually can be used for cleaning as well. Not

0:36:27.360 --> 0:36:29.440
<v Speaker 1>to say this was the invention of soap, but this

0:36:29.480 --> 0:36:31.560
<v Speaker 1>could be an example, you could. You can think of

0:36:31.560 --> 0:36:34.200
<v Speaker 1>this as an example of the sort of the reinvention

0:36:34.239 --> 0:36:38.160
<v Speaker 1>of soap or a particular substance becoming popular and it

0:36:38.239 --> 0:36:41.640
<v Speaker 1>has soap like properties that are then exploited. Additionally, the

0:36:41.680 --> 0:36:47.000
<v Speaker 1>Greek physician Galen lived through either one or two sixteen

0:36:47.160 --> 0:36:50.480
<v Speaker 1>CE road of soap as well. Saying it worked as

0:36:50.520 --> 0:36:53.160
<v Speaker 1>a better detergent than soda, and then it was made

0:36:53.360 --> 0:36:56.520
<v Speaker 1>from fat mixed with lie and quicklime. And he added

0:36:56.520 --> 0:36:59.360
<v Speaker 1>that the best soap is Germanic because it is creamy

0:36:59.400 --> 0:37:04.160
<v Speaker 1>and pure, but Gals second best. Okay, here's a quote

0:37:04.160 --> 0:37:07.360
<v Speaker 1>from Galen quote. All types of soap can severely loosen

0:37:07.440 --> 0:37:10.520
<v Speaker 1>and remove all filth from the body and from clothing.

0:37:10.719 --> 0:37:12.880
<v Speaker 1>You can also dry things out in the same manner

0:37:12.880 --> 0:37:16.680
<v Speaker 1>of soda or foam of soda, and is put in caustics.

0:37:16.719 --> 0:37:20.319
<v Speaker 1>But I should add it is not entirely clear that

0:37:20.440 --> 0:37:24.200
<v Speaker 1>Gallen actually wrote this, as it could have been. We

0:37:24.239 --> 0:37:29.440
<v Speaker 1>could have actually gotten this quote via pseudo Gallenic medieval handbooks.

0:37:29.480 --> 0:37:34.120
<v Speaker 1>So so again per potentially more misinformation about where soap

0:37:34.160 --> 0:37:37.120
<v Speaker 1>comes from. There's something about so there's something about our

0:37:37.200 --> 0:37:41.200
<v Speaker 1>need to explain the origin of such an everyday substance

0:37:41.600 --> 0:37:43.959
<v Speaker 1>and explain it with some sort of a novel, fun

0:37:44.000 --> 0:37:47.080
<v Speaker 1>little story. Yeah. I wonder what's what is held in

0:37:47.160 --> 0:37:49.759
<v Speaker 1>common by the types of inventions where you know, there

0:37:49.800 --> 0:37:51.879
<v Speaker 1>are tons of inventions that we just don't know where

0:37:51.880 --> 0:37:55.239
<v Speaker 1>they came from. And some of these get all these like, uh,

0:37:55.280 --> 0:37:59.160
<v Speaker 1>these these false origin stories and others don't. What are

0:37:59.160 --> 0:38:01.920
<v Speaker 1>the ones that get a false origin stories have in common?

0:38:01.960 --> 0:38:04.959
<v Speaker 1>Are they just the ones that maybe children are most

0:38:05.000 --> 0:38:08.160
<v Speaker 1>likely to wonder about and ask about? Yeah, where I

0:38:08.200 --> 0:38:12.360
<v Speaker 1>was thinking, perhaps they're sort of sidebars, like soap is

0:38:12.440 --> 0:38:15.120
<v Speaker 1>so important, and yet at the same time, it's easy

0:38:15.160 --> 0:38:18.160
<v Speaker 1>to imagine if one were writing, like you know, people

0:38:18.160 --> 0:38:20.480
<v Speaker 1>like Plenty did, if they were just writing about, you know,

0:38:20.520 --> 0:38:22.640
<v Speaker 1>the general history and state of the world, if they

0:38:22.719 --> 0:38:25.759
<v Speaker 1>just writing about everything, you might be tempted to just

0:38:25.800 --> 0:38:29.080
<v Speaker 1>sort of speed through the soap section and be like, uh, yeah,

0:38:29.160 --> 0:38:32.040
<v Speaker 1>it sounds like it came from some some gallic hair

0:38:32.080 --> 0:38:35.759
<v Speaker 1>treatments something that effect. But but I don't know, you know,

0:38:36.360 --> 0:38:38.839
<v Speaker 1>perhaps the more has been written and said on this

0:38:39.160 --> 0:38:44.239
<v Speaker 1>this aspect of of human curiosity, but whether or not

0:38:44.320 --> 0:38:47.399
<v Speaker 1>that was actually a gallon that that we quoted their

0:38:47.600 --> 0:38:50.160
<v Speaker 1>Other Greek writers of the time did write about soap

0:38:50.600 --> 0:38:53.600
<v Speaker 1>um and we we see this with with Roman writers

0:38:53.600 --> 0:38:56.520
<v Speaker 1>as well. Uh. Plenty rights that soap is made from

0:38:56.560 --> 0:38:58.800
<v Speaker 1>the ashes of beech trees and goat fat, and that

0:38:58.880 --> 0:39:01.919
<v Speaker 1>there are two types dick can liquid, both kinds used

0:39:01.920 --> 0:39:05.920
<v Speaker 1>in by a gramatic cultures. Plenty stated that the Phoenicians

0:39:05.920 --> 0:39:09.839
<v Speaker 1>discovered soap making in he gave the rough data six

0:39:10.239 --> 0:39:13.840
<v Speaker 1>b C. But when we actually look for the earliest

0:39:13.920 --> 0:39:17.919
<v Speaker 1>evidence of an actual soap like material, it certainly takes

0:39:18.000 --> 0:39:20.960
<v Speaker 1>us back further than that. Okay, let's hear about it.

0:39:21.520 --> 0:39:24.640
<v Speaker 1>So basically we can go back and we can look

0:39:24.680 --> 0:39:28.800
<v Speaker 1>at Sumerian clay tablets that date back to the third

0:39:28.880 --> 0:39:33.280
<v Speaker 1>millennium b C in the hit Type capital of bog Iscoy.

0:39:33.840 --> 0:39:36.080
<v Speaker 1>And this decided both in that paper by Roth at

0:39:36.120 --> 0:39:38.520
<v Speaker 1>all that I already mentioned, as well as his paper

0:39:38.560 --> 0:39:43.040
<v Speaker 1>by Conko and Rasmussen titled an Ancient Cleaner Soap Production

0:39:43.160 --> 0:39:46.440
<v Speaker 1>and Use in Antiquity. This was published in Chemical Technology

0:39:46.440 --> 0:39:49.920
<v Speaker 1>and Antiquity in two All right, so what is this

0:39:49.960 --> 0:39:52.840
<v Speaker 1>Sumerian clay tablets? Say? How how do we know that

0:39:52.920 --> 0:39:56.840
<v Speaker 1>it's talking about soap? It says with water, I bathed

0:39:56.880 --> 0:40:00.680
<v Speaker 1>myself with soda. I cleansed myself with soda from a

0:40:00.760 --> 0:40:04.560
<v Speaker 1>shiny basin. I purified myself with pure oil from the basin.

0:40:04.640 --> 0:40:08.400
<v Speaker 1>I beautified myself with a dress of heavenly kingship. I

0:40:08.520 --> 0:40:12.600
<v Speaker 1>clothed myself. Ah, so you're getting all the elements of soap.

0:40:12.640 --> 0:40:16.280
<v Speaker 1>They're right, you're getting water, you're getting the alkali and soda,

0:40:16.440 --> 0:40:19.040
<v Speaker 1>and you're getting the oil when it says oil. So

0:40:19.080 --> 0:40:22.400
<v Speaker 1>if you combine those things together, you can get a

0:40:22.480 --> 0:40:25.600
<v Speaker 1>rudimentary form of soap. Yeah and uh and this is

0:40:25.640 --> 0:40:28.360
<v Speaker 1>from a Samerian clay cylinder found during the excavation of

0:40:28.360 --> 0:40:32.520
<v Speaker 1>the ancient city of Babylon from the R dynasty. Uh

0:40:32.600 --> 0:40:36.920
<v Speaker 1>So it is essentially sounds like a soap making process. Now,

0:40:36.960 --> 0:40:42.720
<v Speaker 1>there's also a roughly c E text concerning the washing

0:40:42.760 --> 0:40:46.800
<v Speaker 1>of wool, but according to Conchole and Rasmussen uh quote,

0:40:46.800 --> 0:40:49.920
<v Speaker 1>details concerning the identity and contents of these tablets have

0:40:50.000 --> 0:40:53.000
<v Speaker 1>not been reported. Like in all of this, I guess

0:40:53.440 --> 0:40:55.600
<v Speaker 1>you know what, we're dealing with the fact that the

0:40:55.680 --> 0:40:58.279
<v Speaker 1>history of soap is difficult to uncover. And this is

0:40:58.280 --> 0:41:00.719
<v Speaker 1>something that this worth keeping in mind. Here we're dealing

0:41:00.760 --> 0:41:05.839
<v Speaker 1>about finding written accounts of the physical soap, right because

0:41:05.880 --> 0:41:08.920
<v Speaker 1>you can't find fossil soap, right. Yeah. The authors here

0:41:09.000 --> 0:41:11.080
<v Speaker 1>point out that that first of all, ancient soap is

0:41:11.080 --> 0:41:13.560
<v Speaker 1>difficult to study because it is organic and does not

0:41:13.719 --> 0:41:18.319
<v Speaker 1>leave behind direct archaeological evidence. In addition, organic residues can

0:41:18.320 --> 0:41:23.200
<v Speaker 1>simply undergo suppontification and become soap or soap like without

0:41:23.239 --> 0:41:27.360
<v Speaker 1>any human chemistry actually interfering. So instead, the best we

0:41:27.360 --> 0:41:29.760
<v Speaker 1>can hope for is a written record of it, especially

0:41:29.800 --> 0:41:31.960
<v Speaker 1>in the form of a recipe, and in that we

0:41:32.000 --> 0:41:34.640
<v Speaker 1>deal with all the normal problems of looking at the

0:41:34.680 --> 0:41:38.360
<v Speaker 1>historical record to understand human history, because it's a question

0:41:38.440 --> 0:41:41.560
<v Speaker 1>of what was actually recorded, and then what was recorded

0:41:41.560 --> 0:41:44.040
<v Speaker 1>in a way that that could survive, and then what

0:41:44.200 --> 0:41:48.120
<v Speaker 1>actually did survive. Uh, you know, the point about natural

0:41:48.160 --> 0:41:51.279
<v Speaker 1>suppontification happening. This ties into something we've talked about on

0:41:51.320 --> 0:41:53.920
<v Speaker 1>the podcast a couple of times, I believe, such as

0:41:54.000 --> 0:41:58.480
<v Speaker 1>like the soap corpses. One very famous example is known

0:41:58.480 --> 0:42:01.800
<v Speaker 1>as the soap lated that's housed at the Mooder Museum

0:42:01.800 --> 0:42:05.960
<v Speaker 1>in Philadelphia, which is what happens when people are buried

0:42:06.000 --> 0:42:09.719
<v Speaker 1>in soil with a certain kind of soil chemistry and uh,

0:42:09.760 --> 0:42:12.640
<v Speaker 1>and the lipids, the fat layers around the outside of

0:42:12.680 --> 0:42:16.880
<v Speaker 1>their body react with the chemicals in the soil to

0:42:17.040 --> 0:42:20.120
<v Speaker 1>form a kind of in tumbment or encasement of soap

0:42:20.200 --> 0:42:23.560
<v Speaker 1>around the body as it decomposes. Yeah, so that's yeah,

0:42:23.560 --> 0:42:25.920
<v Speaker 1>that's an example there. Like nobody was making soap on

0:42:26.000 --> 0:42:30.040
<v Speaker 1>purpose there, but sometimes soap happens. Likewise, nobody's nobody's trying

0:42:30.080 --> 0:42:33.160
<v Speaker 1>to make soap in the sewers with that's right, with

0:42:33.760 --> 0:42:37.280
<v Speaker 1>the soap dragons. Yeah, yeah, because yeah, you can imagine

0:42:37.320 --> 0:42:39.759
<v Speaker 1>if potentially someone looking back and they were like, well

0:42:39.760 --> 0:42:42.200
<v Speaker 1>they created this, the aliens come and they're like, they

0:42:42.239 --> 0:42:46.040
<v Speaker 1>created this enormous system underground, and it's so purpose seemed

0:42:46.080 --> 0:42:50.080
<v Speaker 1>to be the construction of massive pieces of soap. I mean,

0:42:50.120 --> 0:42:52.319
<v Speaker 1>I guess that stuff isn't technically soap. I mean it's

0:42:52.480 --> 0:42:56.319
<v Speaker 1>it has soap like qualities, but yeah, or I don't

0:42:56.320 --> 0:42:58.960
<v Speaker 1>know is it technically soap. I don't actually remember the

0:42:58.960 --> 0:43:01.680
<v Speaker 1>answer to that question. It is soap like in some

0:43:01.760 --> 0:43:06.160
<v Speaker 1>ways at least. Now Kunkol and Rasmussen, uh. They they

0:43:06.160 --> 0:43:09.239
<v Speaker 1>do point to this, this third dynasty of or that's

0:43:10.560 --> 0:43:15.439
<v Speaker 1>account as being quote a detailed economic account of cloth manufacture,

0:43:15.680 --> 0:43:18.560
<v Speaker 1>and this is what includes a recipe for an impure

0:43:18.640 --> 0:43:22.360
<v Speaker 1>liquid soap made from oil and potash, and this is

0:43:22.400 --> 0:43:25.760
<v Speaker 1>what is generally and currently considered to be the oldest

0:43:26.120 --> 0:43:29.560
<v Speaker 1>verified record of soap making. Now they point out that

0:43:29.640 --> 0:43:33.200
<v Speaker 1>the soap is generally mentioned in connection with medical writings

0:43:33.200 --> 0:43:39.239
<v Speaker 1>in Mesopotamian cultures centering in on the diagnosis and prognosis

0:43:39.280 --> 0:43:42.960
<v Speaker 1>of illnesses and the creation of herbal remedies that usually

0:43:43.000 --> 0:43:47.920
<v Speaker 1>consist of a pharmacological ointment containing oil, plant matter, and

0:43:48.040 --> 0:43:52.759
<v Speaker 1>various other substances. So they also point to a Sumerian

0:43:53.160 --> 0:43:58.480
<v Speaker 1>pharmacological tablet from b C from Nippur that is seemingly

0:43:58.520 --> 0:44:01.680
<v Speaker 1>the oldest medical cred of soap. But it's also kind

0:44:01.719 --> 0:44:07.200
<v Speaker 1>of deconstructed soap because the quote unquote ailing oregan is

0:44:07.239 --> 0:44:10.839
<v Speaker 1>washed with a special solution, then rubbed with oil, and

0:44:10.880 --> 0:44:15.240
<v Speaker 1>then covered with plant ash. So it's kind of like, wait, wait, wait,

0:44:15.280 --> 0:44:19.120
<v Speaker 1>what's the ailing organ? Yeah, I was, I was wondering

0:44:19.120 --> 0:44:22.920
<v Speaker 1>about that too. It brought some rather um specific ideas

0:44:22.960 --> 0:44:26.880
<v Speaker 1>to mind. Apparently there's some uncertainty there, but the authors

0:44:27.000 --> 0:44:29.800
<v Speaker 1>later in the articles speculate that we're talking about hands

0:44:29.840 --> 0:44:34.200
<v Speaker 1>and feet, so organ used very loosely here. That still

0:44:34.200 --> 0:44:36.120
<v Speaker 1>makes me wonder. I mean, like, I know, in some

0:44:36.200 --> 0:44:39.080
<v Speaker 1>ancient documents, like in some books of the Hebrew Bible,

0:44:39.120 --> 0:44:42.239
<v Speaker 1>I believe scholars speculate that references to the feet are

0:44:42.320 --> 0:44:46.520
<v Speaker 1>often euphemistic references to the genitals. Yeah. Well, and ultimately, hey,

0:44:46.520 --> 0:44:51.000
<v Speaker 1>the genitals need washing too, and genitals also suffer ailments,

0:44:51.000 --> 0:44:53.480
<v Speaker 1>both of the skin uh and other varieties. So I

0:44:53.520 --> 0:44:56.240
<v Speaker 1>mean it's you know, we might snicker at the idea

0:44:56.360 --> 0:45:00.280
<v Speaker 1>of um, you know, old genitals, ailing genitals being oshed

0:45:00.320 --> 0:45:03.560
<v Speaker 1>with a you know, a medical semi magical solution and

0:45:03.640 --> 0:45:06.799
<v Speaker 1>ancient uh samaria, but I mean that's part of it,

0:45:07.200 --> 0:45:09.759
<v Speaker 1>you know, in the same way that we often think

0:45:09.840 --> 0:45:13.719
<v Speaker 1>of intestinal disruptions, you know, and um, you know, diarrhea

0:45:13.800 --> 0:45:16.160
<v Speaker 1>and the like. There's there's kind of a humor to

0:45:16.239 --> 0:45:18.640
<v Speaker 1>those those ailments, at least when we're not suffering them

0:45:18.640 --> 0:45:21.600
<v Speaker 1>ourselves or when they're not too severe. But you look

0:45:21.640 --> 0:45:24.480
<v Speaker 1>at say, you know, air vedic medicine, you look at

0:45:24.480 --> 0:45:27.839
<v Speaker 1>any medical you know, old medical practice, and there's a

0:45:27.920 --> 0:45:31.919
<v Speaker 1>lot of attention given to digestive problems. I mean, that's

0:45:31.920 --> 0:45:34.319
<v Speaker 1>just that's part of being human and that's part of

0:45:34.360 --> 0:45:38.839
<v Speaker 1>our quest to to treat the ailments of humanity. Mm hmm.

0:45:39.400 --> 0:45:42.560
<v Speaker 1>Speaking of diarrhea, while soap is is great for washing

0:45:42.600 --> 0:45:45.560
<v Speaker 1>the outside of your body, do not ingest it? Oh yeah,

0:45:46.160 --> 0:45:48.480
<v Speaker 1>we we. We were reminding my son of this several

0:45:48.520 --> 0:45:50.880
<v Speaker 1>months ago, maybe half a year ago now, and at

0:45:50.920 --> 0:45:53.280
<v Speaker 1>the same time he was, as he is now super

0:45:53.280 --> 0:45:55.960
<v Speaker 1>into Harry Potter, so he's into potion making. So when

0:45:55.960 --> 0:45:58.040
<v Speaker 1>we told him about this, he took this potion bottle

0:45:58.040 --> 0:45:59.520
<v Speaker 1>that he plays with the with the bat in the

0:45:59.520 --> 0:46:02.600
<v Speaker 1>bathtub and he filled it like mostly with soap, and

0:46:02.640 --> 0:46:11.360
<v Speaker 1>then he labeled it the diarrhea potion as one of

0:46:11.400 --> 0:46:16.560
<v Speaker 1>the worst potions in Snap's class. I completely flunked the

0:46:16.640 --> 0:46:20.759
<v Speaker 1>Diary of potion portion of the snape semester that the

0:46:20.800 --> 0:46:24.440
<v Speaker 1>Diary of potion is still uh in the bathroom. Um,

0:46:24.520 --> 0:46:26.360
<v Speaker 1>maybe I should take a picture of it and share

0:46:26.360 --> 0:46:28.719
<v Speaker 1>it with with people on the Stuff to Blow your

0:46:28.719 --> 0:46:32.520
<v Speaker 1>Mind discussion module on Facebook, because uh, yeah it exists,

0:46:32.520 --> 0:46:35.480
<v Speaker 1>and you know what, it probably works. Probably works. I

0:46:35.520 --> 0:46:40.400
<v Speaker 1>believe in magic, alright. So back to kun Cool and

0:46:40.520 --> 0:46:43.240
<v Speaker 1>Rasmussen here. Then they point to a few other examples

0:46:43.239 --> 0:46:46.160
<v Speaker 1>that the paper is is really good. It's worth looking at, uh,

0:46:46.280 --> 0:46:48.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, looking at say some there's a for instance,

0:46:48.440 --> 0:46:52.080
<v Speaker 1>a seventh century text of a private Akadian citizen uh

0:46:52.120 --> 0:46:57.000
<v Speaker 1>that's describing using tamarisks, date palm, pine cone, and some

0:46:57.600 --> 0:47:01.200
<v Speaker 1>unidentified plant that is referred to as uh master call

0:47:02.040 --> 0:47:06.480
<v Speaker 1>the quoting question, may the tamarisk whereof the tops grow

0:47:06.560 --> 0:47:10.560
<v Speaker 1>high cleanse me? May the date palm which faces every wind,

0:47:10.719 --> 0:47:14.280
<v Speaker 1>free me. May the mastercal plant which fills the earth

0:47:14.360 --> 0:47:16.799
<v Speaker 1>clean me. May the pine cone which is full of

0:47:16.840 --> 0:47:20.799
<v Speaker 1>seed corns free me. I carry a container with an

0:47:20.800 --> 0:47:24.680
<v Speaker 1>aqueous solution of mastercal plant to the gods of the heavens,

0:47:25.040 --> 0:47:28.279
<v Speaker 1>as I would bring forth to you for purification. So

0:47:28.440 --> 0:47:33.200
<v Speaker 1>will you cleanse me? So another kind of magical um

0:47:33.320 --> 0:47:36.920
<v Speaker 1>uh you know, intonation of the of the the substance

0:47:36.920 --> 0:47:40.520
<v Speaker 1>that has been prepared. Okay, uh So what are the authors, though,

0:47:40.640 --> 0:47:43.959
<v Speaker 1>make of the significance of this, like is, why would

0:47:43.960 --> 0:47:46.080
<v Speaker 1>this be a soap here? Okay? So they say, quote

0:47:46.080 --> 0:47:49.600
<v Speaker 1>the description of cleansing agents is quite interesting, and that

0:47:49.719 --> 0:47:52.640
<v Speaker 1>it contains ingredients that form the two components of soap.

0:47:52.880 --> 0:47:56.560
<v Speaker 1>The tamarisk, genus of a group of saline and alkaline

0:47:56.600 --> 0:48:00.600
<v Speaker 1>soil tolerant flowering shrubs native to raise An, Africa, could

0:48:00.600 --> 0:48:04.560
<v Speaker 1>be a potential source of alkali along with the mastacol plant.

0:48:04.840 --> 0:48:08.319
<v Speaker 1>Tamarisk is also mentioned in the Epic of Gilgamesh, when

0:48:08.360 --> 0:48:12.160
<v Speaker 1>the goddess nin son Gilgamesh's mother bathed ceremoniously in a

0:48:12.239 --> 0:48:15.719
<v Speaker 1>bath of tamarisk and soap work. The date palm, which

0:48:15.760 --> 0:48:18.040
<v Speaker 1>contains a number of fatty acids in both the seed

0:48:18.080 --> 0:48:20.400
<v Speaker 1>and the flesh of the fruit could provide the second

0:48:20.400 --> 0:48:23.800
<v Speaker 1>component needed to produce soap. So again we're in the

0:48:23.920 --> 0:48:27.480
<v Speaker 1>zone of possible soap here. Again, the chemistry of soap

0:48:27.719 --> 0:48:31.200
<v Speaker 1>is certainly possible before that date we gave earlier in

0:48:31.200 --> 0:48:33.840
<v Speaker 1>the third millennium BC. It's just a matter of finding

0:48:33.920 --> 0:48:37.200
<v Speaker 1>hard evidence for it, hard records of it that we

0:48:37.239 --> 0:48:40.520
<v Speaker 1>can we can definitely point to um plus. You know,

0:48:40.600 --> 0:48:43.240
<v Speaker 1>it does make sense, as we've seen with the gall

0:48:43.400 --> 0:48:47.520
<v Speaker 1>origin idea, which again is much later in human history,

0:48:47.560 --> 0:48:50.560
<v Speaker 1>that the likely origin of soap might involve, you know,

0:48:50.600 --> 0:48:54.520
<v Speaker 1>an adjacent area of health hygiene, medicine or cosmetics, and

0:48:54.560 --> 0:48:57.040
<v Speaker 1>these examples, and you could well imagine it's sort of

0:48:57.080 --> 0:49:02.800
<v Speaker 1>being discovered rediscovered, uh to varying degrees across different cultures.

0:49:03.239 --> 0:49:06.040
<v Speaker 1>Uh So, I want to read just this nice closing

0:49:06.040 --> 0:49:09.320
<v Speaker 1>from conk Cool and ras Mussin quote. The slightly complicated

0:49:09.360 --> 0:49:12.200
<v Speaker 1>process of rendering the fats and oils and combining it

0:49:12.280 --> 0:49:15.959
<v Speaker 1>with alkali could not have been developed spontaneously. There must

0:49:15.960 --> 0:49:19.120
<v Speaker 1>have been a series of steps or procedures that slowly evolved,

0:49:19.239 --> 0:49:22.120
<v Speaker 1>where each step results in a process useful enough to

0:49:22.160 --> 0:49:25.239
<v Speaker 1>be adopted in its own right. One proposed sequence of

0:49:25.280 --> 0:49:28.360
<v Speaker 1>development is that people use sand or ashes to remove

0:49:28.400 --> 0:49:31.520
<v Speaker 1>the grease from skin. If they rinse the ashes off

0:49:31.520 --> 0:49:34.440
<v Speaker 1>with water, the water and their skin would become slippery,

0:49:34.680 --> 0:49:38.320
<v Speaker 1>which was because of the dissolved alkali salts. This water

0:49:38.360 --> 0:49:41.960
<v Speaker 1>would clean better because the dissolved alkali reacts with the grease,

0:49:42.120 --> 0:49:44.840
<v Speaker 1>converting it into soap. The more grease that was was

0:49:44.880 --> 0:49:47.799
<v Speaker 1>dissolved in the solution, the better it cleans because more

0:49:47.840 --> 0:49:51.280
<v Speaker 1>soap is formed. At some point the ashes were discarded

0:49:51.320 --> 0:49:55.080
<v Speaker 1>and the solution from leech dashes or concentrated alkali salts

0:49:55.160 --> 0:49:58.600
<v Speaker 1>were used. That's very plausible route of development to me.

0:49:58.680 --> 0:50:02.239
<v Speaker 1>That maybe first you just had the oil as the

0:50:02.280 --> 0:50:06.480
<v Speaker 1>contaminant itself, and then if you used ashes in the washing,

0:50:06.560 --> 0:50:08.680
<v Speaker 1>it would naturally combine with the oils that you were

0:50:08.680 --> 0:50:12.120
<v Speaker 1>trying to get off to make the soap. Uh and

0:50:12.160 --> 0:50:14.480
<v Speaker 1>that of course that would wash off much more easily

0:50:14.520 --> 0:50:16.920
<v Speaker 1>because it bonds with the water you're using to rinse.

0:50:17.320 --> 0:50:19.480
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I can definitely see something like that, maybe

0:50:19.520 --> 0:50:21.920
<v Speaker 1>that like ashes from a fire pit or kind of

0:50:21.920 --> 0:50:26.160
<v Speaker 1>the stepping stone. Yeah, so so, yeah, this is interesting

0:50:26.160 --> 0:50:28.560
<v Speaker 1>to really sort of you know, peer back through history,

0:50:28.600 --> 0:50:32.279
<v Speaker 1>and again you don't have that wonderful aha moment where

0:50:32.280 --> 0:50:35.719
<v Speaker 1>where you suddenly have something accidentally produced. Instead, it's it's

0:50:35.760 --> 0:50:39.320
<v Speaker 1>something that develops out of these um these hygienic practices

0:50:39.360 --> 0:50:41.759
<v Speaker 1>and rituals. You know. One of the funny things that

0:50:41.800 --> 0:50:44.560
<v Speaker 1>I was just thinking about is that throughout history you

0:50:44.560 --> 0:50:48.080
<v Speaker 1>would have had all of these uh, soap making industries

0:50:48.560 --> 0:50:51.600
<v Speaker 1>that we're making use of rendered animal fats, and I

0:50:51.680 --> 0:50:53.880
<v Speaker 1>would guess that a lot of the animal fats they

0:50:53.880 --> 0:50:56.839
<v Speaker 1>were using were probably not the ones that were like

0:50:58.040 --> 0:51:01.360
<v Speaker 1>still freshest and best for I don't know, culinary uses

0:51:01.480 --> 0:51:04.799
<v Speaker 1>or other types of uses. So I can imagine that

0:51:05.120 --> 0:51:08.840
<v Speaker 1>the process of making soap throughout history might often have

0:51:08.960 --> 0:51:12.600
<v Speaker 1>been rather nasty and stinky work. You know, what you're

0:51:12.640 --> 0:51:15.759
<v Speaker 1>making is ultimately the thing that that gets the gets

0:51:15.840 --> 0:51:20.960
<v Speaker 1>the rich butts clean. Yeah, so making does, even knowing

0:51:21.040 --> 0:51:22.799
<v Speaker 1>you know a little bit more about what goes into

0:51:22.800 --> 0:51:27.560
<v Speaker 1>the into the sausages, it does have this air of

0:51:27.560 --> 0:51:31.080
<v Speaker 1>a sort of chemical nobility to it. Right today, especially

0:51:31.120 --> 0:51:34.280
<v Speaker 1>when you're dealing with with with with with crafts people,

0:51:34.360 --> 0:51:39.799
<v Speaker 1>right and soap bespoke soaps and so forth. But yeah,

0:51:39.880 --> 0:51:45.239
<v Speaker 1>which I made with rancid goat fat. Rancid goat fat

0:51:45.360 --> 0:51:47.400
<v Speaker 1>is not used in the marketing enough, you know. I

0:51:47.680 --> 0:51:50.640
<v Speaker 1>always think back to those Irish spring commercials when I

0:51:50.680 --> 0:51:52.279
<v Speaker 1>was a kid, where it's like, you know that the

0:51:52.360 --> 0:51:56.800
<v Speaker 1>manly Irish soap that is appears to just spring forth

0:51:56.840 --> 0:52:00.960
<v Speaker 1>from the earth. Uh. It's like some weird manna that

0:52:01.080 --> 0:52:04.360
<v Speaker 1>flows out of the uh you know, the mountains uh

0:52:04.480 --> 0:52:07.120
<v Speaker 1>in Ireland or something. You know. Soaps another thing we've

0:52:07.160 --> 0:52:11.240
<v Speaker 1>talked before about weird like products they get gendered marketing

0:52:11.280 --> 0:52:14.959
<v Speaker 1>and products that don't um and like, of course, soap

0:52:15.080 --> 0:52:17.520
<v Speaker 1>is one of those that's so interesting, like you know,

0:52:17.600 --> 0:52:20.839
<v Speaker 1>there's feminine soap and there's masculine soap, and like why

0:52:21.080 --> 0:52:23.640
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, Yeah, I mean, I mean obviously some

0:52:23.719 --> 0:52:27.359
<v Speaker 1>soaps are are more I guess, um, you know, more

0:52:27.440 --> 0:52:30.560
<v Speaker 1>durable than others, or more or harsher. Like I remember

0:52:30.600 --> 0:52:34.920
<v Speaker 1>my my grandfather would always wash and lather up with

0:52:35.120 --> 0:52:38.759
<v Speaker 1>lava soap, which was one that was definitely gendered, you know,

0:52:39.120 --> 0:52:40.840
<v Speaker 1>but it was it was like a workman. So I

0:52:40.880 --> 0:52:43.279
<v Speaker 1>guess they probably still make it. I'm certainly not in

0:52:43.320 --> 0:52:45.200
<v Speaker 1>the market for it, but it was a harsh and

0:52:45.239 --> 0:52:48.160
<v Speaker 1>abrasive bar of soap. It was the it was the

0:52:48.200 --> 0:52:52.040
<v Speaker 1>most masculine bar soap imaginable. This will turn you into leather,

0:52:52.640 --> 0:52:55.480
<v Speaker 1>It'll make beef jerky out of your skin. Yeah, to

0:52:55.560 --> 0:52:57.839
<v Speaker 1>just rip your skin right off. And then, of course

0:52:57.840 --> 0:52:59.520
<v Speaker 1>you see with the Irish Spring and there, I mean

0:52:59.520 --> 0:53:02.480
<v Speaker 1>there's I'm sor a plethora of different uh, you know,

0:53:02.640 --> 0:53:05.920
<v Speaker 1>masculine soaps out there. Uh. And then of course the

0:53:05.920 --> 0:53:07.960
<v Speaker 1>reverse is true as well. You have something you know

0:53:08.040 --> 0:53:11.440
<v Speaker 1>that lots of floral tones and are definitely going in

0:53:11.480 --> 0:53:15.040
<v Speaker 1>the other direction. I don't know. I'm more of the

0:53:15.040 --> 0:53:18.480
<v Speaker 1>the gender neutral soap category. I like something uh, you know,

0:53:18.640 --> 0:53:24.279
<v Speaker 1>nice uh and politely in between. So uh. Of course,

0:53:24.320 --> 0:53:27.800
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't matter whether you use masculine soap or feminine

0:53:27.840 --> 0:53:31.160
<v Speaker 1>soap or gender neutral soap. It's very important that whatever

0:53:31.239 --> 0:53:34.040
<v Speaker 1>kind of soap you use, you wash your hands. And

0:53:34.280 --> 0:53:36.040
<v Speaker 1>that's one of the reasons we wanted to do this

0:53:36.080 --> 0:53:40.279
<v Speaker 1>episode today. Robert, you discovered there's actually a Global Handwashing Day.

0:53:40.360 --> 0:53:42.480
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know about that. Yeah, this is this was

0:53:42.560 --> 0:53:46.080
<v Speaker 1>news to me. October fifte is Global hand Washing Day,

0:53:46.600 --> 0:53:49.640
<v Speaker 1>and uh. It was established by the Global Handwashing Partnership

0:53:49.680 --> 0:53:52.680
<v Speaker 1>in two thousand and eight. Uh quote. The observance aims

0:53:52.719 --> 0:53:55.680
<v Speaker 1>to increase awareness and knowledge of the benefits of handwashing

0:53:55.680 --> 0:53:59.279
<v Speaker 1>with soap. I have been going, uh yeah, certainly since

0:53:59.280 --> 0:54:02.920
<v Speaker 1>its inception, I have not noticed uh this holiday. I

0:54:02.960 --> 0:54:07.200
<v Speaker 1>have a feeling this October we might give it a

0:54:07.239 --> 0:54:11.800
<v Speaker 1>little more attention. And and certainly I do want to

0:54:11.840 --> 0:54:16.080
<v Speaker 1>stress if it's masculine so gender neutral soap, you know,

0:54:16.160 --> 0:54:19.719
<v Speaker 1>feminine soap, whatever, kids soap, grown up soap, Use something

0:54:19.760 --> 0:54:22.000
<v Speaker 1>you like. If if if it if a certain branding

0:54:22.160 --> 0:54:26.359
<v Speaker 1>or or fragrance or whatever, uh makes you like it

0:54:26.400 --> 0:54:28.920
<v Speaker 1>more or makes your your child like it more, go

0:54:29.080 --> 0:54:32.680
<v Speaker 1>for it. That's my take on it. Uh. But but yeah,

0:54:32.719 --> 0:54:36.319
<v Speaker 1>the Global Handwashing Day is coming up, and uh, I

0:54:36.360 --> 0:54:38.600
<v Speaker 1>was looking into it, and I found some wonderful stats

0:54:38.680 --> 0:54:43.920
<v Speaker 1>via the CDC about just the benefits of handwashing, specifically

0:54:44.120 --> 0:54:48.359
<v Speaker 1>the benefits of hand washing education within a given community.

0:54:48.760 --> 0:54:50.880
<v Speaker 1>They point out that it can, first of all, reduce

0:54:50.920 --> 0:54:53.719
<v Speaker 1>the number of people who get sick with diarrhea by

0:54:53.760 --> 0:54:58.279
<v Speaker 1>about twenty three to It can reduce absentee is um

0:54:58.520 --> 0:55:02.080
<v Speaker 1>due to gastro and testine illness and school children by

0:55:02.160 --> 0:55:05.799
<v Speaker 1>twenty nine to fifty seven percent it can reduce diar

0:55:05.880 --> 0:55:09.000
<v Speaker 1>real illness in people with weekend immune systems by about

0:55:09.040 --> 0:55:13.040
<v Speaker 1>fifty eight percent, and it can reduce respiratory illnesses like

0:55:13.239 --> 0:55:18.520
<v Speaker 1>colds in the general population by about sixteen to Yeah. Now,

0:55:18.520 --> 0:55:21.600
<v Speaker 1>one thing that's highlighted here is that hand washing is

0:55:21.600 --> 0:55:24.440
<v Speaker 1>going to have different levels of effectiveness with different kinds

0:55:24.440 --> 0:55:28.000
<v Speaker 1>of germs and diseases. I think one thing that we

0:55:28.000 --> 0:55:30.439
<v Speaker 1>should probably be clear about is that I want to say,

0:55:30.440 --> 0:55:34.480
<v Speaker 1>based on everything I've been reading, the primary route of transmission,

0:55:34.520 --> 0:55:38.040
<v Speaker 1>for example, of the novel coronavirus is going to be

0:55:38.239 --> 0:55:42.960
<v Speaker 1>probably through droplets dispersed directly from other people onto you.

0:55:43.239 --> 0:55:45.600
<v Speaker 1>So stuff that you would receive, you know, from people

0:55:46.000 --> 0:55:49.560
<v Speaker 1>talking or breathing, coughing, sneezing in your presence. That's the

0:55:49.600 --> 0:55:52.120
<v Speaker 1>primary route. But of course we we do think that

0:55:52.239 --> 0:55:56.560
<v Speaker 1>a strong secondary route is you know, contaminated surfaces and

0:55:56.560 --> 0:56:00.359
<v Speaker 1>and spreading through contact through the hands touching the face. Yeah,

0:56:00.400 --> 0:56:03.719
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's why handwashing alone is not enough. That's

0:56:03.760 --> 0:56:06.560
<v Speaker 1>why you know, early on in the pandemic here in

0:56:06.600 --> 0:56:09.080
<v Speaker 1>the United States, it was there was like this. There

0:56:09.080 --> 0:56:11.480
<v Speaker 1>were a few days, maybe even a week there where

0:56:11.680 --> 0:56:15.120
<v Speaker 1>like every business just went crazy with hand sanitizer and

0:56:15.280 --> 0:56:20.279
<v Speaker 1>handwashing U encouragement, you know, with just handwashing stations or

0:56:20.480 --> 0:56:25.000
<v Speaker 1>or hand sanitation of stations everywhere. But then it quickly

0:56:25.040 --> 0:56:27.759
<v Speaker 1>became you know, off hiss that that was that's only

0:56:27.800 --> 0:56:31.600
<v Speaker 1>the secondary transmission. Primary transmission is going to be those droplets.

0:56:31.719 --> 0:56:35.520
<v Speaker 1>Therefore social distancing is necessary, exactly right. But of course

0:56:35.600 --> 0:56:37.680
<v Speaker 1>you can see with many other diseases, especially a lot

0:56:37.680 --> 0:56:40.120
<v Speaker 1>of diseases I think that affect the digestive system, like

0:56:40.160 --> 0:56:44.480
<v Speaker 1>diarrheal diseases of a very strong component of of you know,

0:56:44.600 --> 0:56:47.399
<v Speaker 1>contamination delivered through the hands to the mouth, all these

0:56:47.400 --> 0:56:50.760
<v Speaker 1>fecal oral route diseases and stuff. Yeah, so even outside

0:56:50.760 --> 0:56:54.239
<v Speaker 1>of COVID nineteen, there are plenty of fringe benefits UH

0:56:54.320 --> 0:56:57.520
<v Speaker 1>to an additional you know it benefits to doing all

0:56:57.560 --> 0:57:00.960
<v Speaker 1>that hand washing. I found this in resting. I imagine

0:57:01.200 --> 0:57:05.480
<v Speaker 1>other folks heard about this as well. But Dr Anthony Focci,

0:57:05.640 --> 0:57:09.399
<v Speaker 1>the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, UH,

0:57:09.480 --> 0:57:11.920
<v Speaker 1>an individual everyone you know, is seeing a lot about

0:57:12.120 --> 0:57:14.839
<v Speaker 1>a week after week. He was talking to the Wall

0:57:14.880 --> 0:57:19.480
<v Speaker 1>Street Journals podcast about this, UH, and he said, he's

0:57:19.520 --> 0:57:21.760
<v Speaker 1>talking about like what happens when we we sort of

0:57:22.280 --> 0:57:26.120
<v Speaker 1>begin to emerge from our current um, you know, social

0:57:26.160 --> 0:57:31.479
<v Speaker 1>distancing and uh and shelter in place uh requirements. He said.

0:57:31.560 --> 0:57:34.840
<v Speaker 1>Quote when you gradually come back, you don't jump in

0:57:34.920 --> 0:57:37.840
<v Speaker 1>with both feet. You say, what are the things you

0:57:37.840 --> 0:57:40.800
<v Speaker 1>could still do and still approach normal? And one of

0:57:40.800 --> 0:57:45.120
<v Speaker 1>them is absolute compulsive handwashing. The other is you don't

0:57:45.200 --> 0:57:48.480
<v Speaker 1>shake anyone's hands. I don't think we should ever shake

0:57:48.560 --> 0:57:51.600
<v Speaker 1>hands ever again, to be honest with you, Not only

0:57:51.640 --> 0:57:54.920
<v Speaker 1>would it be good to prevent coronavirus disease, it would

0:57:54.920 --> 0:57:59.520
<v Speaker 1>probably probably would decrease instances of influenza dramatically in this country.

0:58:00.400 --> 0:58:02.439
<v Speaker 1>But how will this be received by the people who

0:58:02.520 --> 0:58:06.360
<v Speaker 1>just love shaking hands? I say as a joke, because

0:58:06.360 --> 0:58:08.479
<v Speaker 1>I assume nobody does. I mean, I guess some people

0:58:08.520 --> 0:58:10.920
<v Speaker 1>actually probably do enjoy it. I mean, I don't know,

0:58:11.280 --> 0:58:14.080
<v Speaker 1>does anybody except like the certain kinds of people who

0:58:14.120 --> 0:58:17.080
<v Speaker 1>like to play some weird dominance game about it, does

0:58:17.120 --> 0:58:20.840
<v Speaker 1>anybody else enjoy it? I mean, it's literally just a

0:58:20.920 --> 0:58:25.200
<v Speaker 1>friendly greeting. Words are great, yeah and uh. And like

0:58:25.240 --> 0:58:26.960
<v Speaker 1>I was thinking of a little bit about this myself,

0:58:27.000 --> 0:58:30.640
<v Speaker 1>because certainly the handshakes that I remember, are like the

0:58:30.680 --> 0:58:35.080
<v Speaker 1>big dominant like hand crushing handshakes you encounter, and also

0:58:35.120 --> 0:58:38.959
<v Speaker 1>the awkward like dead fish handshakes. Yeah, and and even

0:58:38.960 --> 0:58:41.040
<v Speaker 1>like a normal handshake is at least for me, kind

0:58:41.040 --> 0:58:43.440
<v Speaker 1>of awkward. But I think part of it is like

0:58:43.560 --> 0:58:45.960
<v Speaker 1>you think about, you know, when do you hand shake hands?

0:58:46.000 --> 0:58:47.800
<v Speaker 1>When do you not? We tend not to shake hands

0:58:48.040 --> 0:58:50.960
<v Speaker 1>with our closest friends and co workers, etcetera. It's like

0:58:51.240 --> 0:58:54.480
<v Speaker 1>new people. Uh. And that's part of why I mean

0:58:54.520 --> 0:58:57.480
<v Speaker 1>that that flows right into a Dr Fauci's advice here.

0:58:58.240 --> 0:59:00.560
<v Speaker 1>But I guess the other thing is we're often talking

0:59:00.600 --> 0:59:04.720
<v Speaker 1>about kind of like business handshakes and that that level

0:59:04.800 --> 0:59:08.320
<v Speaker 1>of stranger handshake. But then there are also the sort

0:59:08.320 --> 0:59:11.520
<v Speaker 1>of handshakes that often take place and say a communal

0:59:11.600 --> 0:59:15.040
<v Speaker 1>church environment. So my initial response was, yes, I hate

0:59:15.040 --> 0:59:17.360
<v Speaker 1>business handshakes, but then I had to think, well, how

0:59:17.360 --> 0:59:20.080
<v Speaker 1>about handshakes that take plas place during the passing of

0:59:20.160 --> 0:59:23.120
<v Speaker 1>peace in a church? And those so those are okay,

0:59:23.160 --> 0:59:26.320
<v Speaker 1>those are nice. I like those that being said, Uh,

0:59:26.480 --> 0:59:29.240
<v Speaker 1>I'm happy to leave those behind. Do something else instead.

0:59:29.280 --> 0:59:31.400
<v Speaker 1>We can do the elbow bump thing, we can nod

0:59:31.520 --> 0:59:33.520
<v Speaker 1>to each other. There are tons of things we can

0:59:33.560 --> 0:59:37.280
<v Speaker 1>do and still have that communal experience. I want to

0:59:37.280 --> 0:59:40.280
<v Speaker 1>see churches past the piece with a fist bump, because

0:59:40.320 --> 0:59:42.160
<v Speaker 1>I was just looking at a study from the American

0:59:42.240 --> 0:59:46.040
<v Speaker 1>Journal of Infection Control in ten by Sarah Miller and

0:59:46.280 --> 0:59:50.400
<v Speaker 1>David E. Whitworth called the fist bump a more hygienic

0:59:50.400 --> 0:59:55.120
<v Speaker 1>alternative to the handshake. They actually studied how much like

0:59:55.200 --> 0:59:59.400
<v Speaker 1>what percentage of germs were spread by handshakes versus other

0:59:59.440 --> 1:00:02.480
<v Speaker 1>types of g eatings, including a high five and a

1:00:02.560 --> 1:00:05.720
<v Speaker 1>fist bump. And what they found was that quote, nearly

1:00:05.920 --> 1:00:10.440
<v Speaker 1>twice as many bacteria were transferred during a handshake, and

1:00:10.480 --> 1:00:13.360
<v Speaker 1>the mean here was one point to four times ten

1:00:13.480 --> 1:00:18.560
<v Speaker 1>to the eight CFU. That's cfu means colony forming units

1:00:18.560 --> 1:00:21.760
<v Speaker 1>compared with the high five, whereas the fist bump consistently

1:00:21.800 --> 1:00:25.439
<v Speaker 1>gave the lowest transmission. So I think, if you must

1:00:25.640 --> 1:00:31.160
<v Speaker 1>touch fist bump instead of handshake, especially, don't do prolonged handshakes.

1:00:31.600 --> 1:00:34.920
<v Speaker 1>Um This is the they measured that a strong handshake

1:00:35.000 --> 1:00:38.600
<v Speaker 1>quote or a prolonged handshake is even worse than a

1:00:38.680 --> 1:00:44.000
<v Speaker 1>moderate handshake. So like those ridiculously long handshakes that um uh,

1:00:44.040 --> 1:00:46.560
<v Speaker 1>they you sometimes see the US president engage in where

1:00:46.600 --> 1:00:48.680
<v Speaker 1>like nobody's letting go, like where it's like a test

1:00:48.720 --> 1:00:53.120
<v Speaker 1>of the test of will that's just a a natural

1:00:53.200 --> 1:00:57.240
<v Speaker 1>way to to pass on various ailments or or like

1:00:57.280 --> 1:00:59.320
<v Speaker 1>the ones. Uh, I think aren't there some of these

1:00:59.320 --> 1:01:02.080
<v Speaker 1>in like action in movies like an Arnold Schwartzenigger movies

1:01:02.120 --> 1:01:05.680
<v Speaker 1>like the beginning of Predator and Coral Weather Is they're

1:01:05.720 --> 1:01:09.400
<v Speaker 1>just like holding hands for several minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1:01:09.440 --> 1:01:11.960
<v Speaker 1>it's an iconic scene and it's just so raw, the

1:01:12.000 --> 1:01:14.480
<v Speaker 1>big muscles and all the uh. They had not a

1:01:14.480 --> 1:01:17.160
<v Speaker 1>good idea, but they both had diarrhea for a week

1:01:17.240 --> 1:01:20.680
<v Speaker 1>after that. Yeah, I mean probably just that was that

1:01:20.840 --> 1:01:22.640
<v Speaker 1>they probably were already having it. They were in the

1:01:23.400 --> 1:01:29.040
<v Speaker 1>jungle scenario right living off the land. Now, I did

1:01:29.120 --> 1:01:31.240
<v Speaker 1>notice that they point out a difference between fist bump

1:01:31.280 --> 1:01:33.560
<v Speaker 1>and prolonged fist bump. So it's like, I wonder, is

1:01:33.600 --> 1:01:35.560
<v Speaker 1>a prolonged fist bump going to be more like the

1:01:35.600 --> 1:01:38.959
<v Speaker 1>snail or some of these these uh you know, these

1:01:39.040 --> 1:01:41.280
<v Speaker 1>variations on the fist bump or or And then then

1:01:41.320 --> 1:01:43.600
<v Speaker 1>also where does are they blowing it up at all?

1:01:43.760 --> 1:01:46.520
<v Speaker 1>Is that they're doing the hand garnade, so many questions

1:01:46.680 --> 1:01:48.520
<v Speaker 1>I would I would imagine the blowing it up is

1:01:48.560 --> 1:01:51.160
<v Speaker 1>pretty safe. I don't think any germs are transferred during

1:01:51.160 --> 1:01:53.760
<v Speaker 1>blowing it up. Yeah, as long as it blows up quickly.

1:01:54.000 --> 1:01:56.200
<v Speaker 1>Maybe that's the great thing about it. The blowing it

1:01:56.320 --> 1:01:58.720
<v Speaker 1>up is a way to remind ourselves that we've got

1:01:58.720 --> 1:02:00.760
<v Speaker 1>to keep this brief because this and grenades about to

1:02:00.800 --> 1:02:07.560
<v Speaker 1>go off. Well, I will say my personal prejudice against

1:02:07.560 --> 1:02:10.600
<v Speaker 1>hand shaking aside, Uh, if you're gonna be shaking hands,

1:02:10.600 --> 1:02:12.400
<v Speaker 1>and make sure you wash your hands a lot, wash

1:02:12.440 --> 1:02:15.280
<v Speaker 1>your hands before, wash your hands after. Yeah, And and

1:02:15.600 --> 1:02:19.040
<v Speaker 1>use soap. Use soap, yeah, because soap again is a

1:02:19.200 --> 1:02:24.000
<v Speaker 1>fabulous human chemical invention. It has a very long history

1:02:24.000 --> 1:02:27.440
<v Speaker 1>of very fascinating history. Uh. So hopefully you'll all think

1:02:27.440 --> 1:02:29.680
<v Speaker 1>of this is something you can think about during those

1:02:29.800 --> 1:02:33.880
<v Speaker 1>uh twenty plus seconds that you wash your hands. Totally alright,

1:02:33.880 --> 1:02:35.800
<v Speaker 1>So we're gonna go ahead and close it up there. Um.

1:02:35.840 --> 1:02:38.720
<v Speaker 1>You know, obviously there's there's more we could have gone into,

1:02:38.800 --> 1:02:41.120
<v Speaker 1>and you know, in terms of certainly the more recent

1:02:41.200 --> 1:02:44.600
<v Speaker 1>history of soap, uh and and so forth. But but

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<v Speaker 1>really I think that the ancient history here and just

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<v Speaker 1>the basic, basic understanding of how soap works were the

1:02:50.960 --> 1:02:54.360
<v Speaker 1>most important things to focus in on. In the meantime,

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<v Speaker 1>if you want to check out other episodes of Stuff

1:02:56.440 --> 1:02:59.160
<v Speaker 1>to Blow your Mind, head on over to stuff to

1:02:59.160 --> 1:03:00.840
<v Speaker 1>Blow your Mind dot com. That will lead you over

1:03:00.880 --> 1:03:03.000
<v Speaker 1>to the I heart listing for this show. But you

1:03:03.040 --> 1:03:05.560
<v Speaker 1>can also find Stuff to Blow your Mind wherever you

1:03:05.600 --> 1:03:09.000
<v Speaker 1>get your podcasts, wherever that happens to be. Just make

1:03:09.040 --> 1:03:12.680
<v Speaker 1>sure you rate, review, and subscribe. At least for the

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<v Speaker 1>immediate future, we're planning to continue doing invention themed episodes

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<v Speaker 1>on a periodic basis, So I don't think that's gonna

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<v Speaker 1>be No, it's not gonna be weekly, but you know

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<v Speaker 1>it's I think it's gonna at least be monthly. That's

1:03:24.800 --> 1:03:28.240
<v Speaker 1>my my gut. There's no real, uh, you know, firm

1:03:28.440 --> 1:03:31.160
<v Speaker 1>schedule in place on that. But we love covering inventions,

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<v Speaker 1>we love covering human techno history, so we will continue

1:03:34.520 --> 1:03:36.520
<v Speaker 1>to do so. We'll do when we feel like it,

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<v Speaker 1>and we feel like it an awful lot, I'd say, yeah, anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>huge thanks to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson.

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<v Speaker 1>If you would like to get in touch with us

1:03:45.920 --> 1:03:48.560
<v Speaker 1>with feedback on this episode or any other. To suggest

1:03:48.560 --> 1:03:50.920
<v Speaker 1>a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

1:03:51.040 --> 1:03:54.520
<v Speaker 1>you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

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<v Speaker 1>your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is

1:04:05.080 --> 1:04:07.760
<v Speaker 1>production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my

1:04:07.800 --> 1:04:10.760
<v Speaker 1>heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1:04:10.840 --> 1:04:24.480
<v Speaker 1>or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.